Support - Feedback

[lethal river]

Will try with this 👀

[paper vector]

Can’t use it at ranges you’d use an LMG

[dry bobcat]

So? You said greater recoil

[paper vector]

Recoil is applied per shot

More fire rate = more recoil

[dry bobcat]

well, the game says the recoil is less, and my experience tells me the recoil is less, so I'm going to go with that

if it's not recoil it's "control" or something else, whatever it is, it's much easier

[paper vector]

Wilful ignorance I guess?

Control only affects weapon sway as far as I’m aware

Ultimax is simply the primary with the lowest recoil in the game. Much less still with a bipod

[lyric dust]

Ultimax my beloved

[fringe tree]

MP5 compared to all suport MGs

it seems better at closer ranges, but dmg drop starts way sooner

[paper vector]

this is my comparison of them

doesn't list dropoff though

[dry bobcat]

Maybe it's because movement speed gives such a greater advantage in actual gameplay. Whatever it is, support is outclassed by SMG users

[paper vector]

maybe UMP since it's fairly meta

would disagree for any others, unless PDWs count as SMGs

[fringe tree]

just take off exo armor and big pack... only helmet to survive snipers and you get 97.5 speed

[paper vector]

I would rather take just exo chest than exo helm

since exo helm is only useful for snipers really

a minority of deaths

[fringe tree]

exactly what I said xD

[dry bobcat]

The top of the leaderboards in almost every match are all medics. That's also telling

[fringe tree]

still half of people on invasion go sniper xD

[lethal river]

there should be a challenge for 200m kills rn i think

[fringe tree]

yuo can do that with AUG quite easilly =/

[lethal river]

won't catch me on sniper

[fringe tree]

[lyric dust]

Pog

[dry bobcat]

Just tried again, one round with the ultimax, another round with the mp5. MP5 shreds, and my kills are always higher. It feels much more accurate, easier to control the almost non-existent recoil, and faster to kill with. I was even killing people at DMR range, and people with only their heads poking out of windows. Something is wrong

[dry bobcat]

Or nothing is wrong with the game and the recoil values are just lower, as the game states, it's only your math that is wrong.

[paper vector]

With 7.25 damage per shot?

If you’re getting kills at those ranges it’s because they were very low

[paper vector]

The game definitely does not

Doing something like adding the raw recoil numbers and assuming that means recoil is like taking only damage for comparing ttk

[woven fossil]

Swapping to another class off of support should not feel like changing to easy difficulty.

The slowness of this class combined with generally higher recoil and limit on performance is really severely holding it back.

Slowness is really the big thing here. Speed is no contest the biggest advantage you can have. Support loses speed and what the class has in return simply is nowhere near how good having speed is. The defense is not good enough. And the firepower especially LMGs isn't either

[paper vector]

I simply don’t agree. Most of my highest kill games have been on mainly support

The guns are very potent

[inner monolith]

what's a high kill game to you?

[paper vector]

I guess it depends on the gamemode

In conquest 70+ I suppose

Invasion more like 120+

[gilded canopy]

Ngl i feel like support is in a good spot rn, more buffs would make it op

[lethal river]

if bipod were more flexible when using things other than a buildable wall/proning that'd be nice tbh

otherwise yea i'm good, more guns pls

[sweet sinew]

I don't think it ever will, purely from the lack of move speed

I'd love to see the ability to lock bipods to a surface, but that bring a whooooooooooooole lot of backend changes as you need to start doing dynamic animation and reverse-kinematics to not have the player model start floating in the air or burying in the ground when you aim up/down

[sweet sinew]

Mild-disagree, support does require a different playstyle yes, but I don't think it's harder than others.

Supports weapons, when utilized correctly, have the highest lethality -over-time in the game and are just about the only things that can 5v1 on the regular.

[paper vector]

Support doesn’t inherently lack it. You can’t optimise for speed with support but you can use a competitive build on support with a speed as good as other classes with that same build

My regular assault build is actually slightly slower than the fastest support build you could use

[lethal river]

Hopefully one day it gets done

[inner monolith]

You can certainly take out multiple people in quick succession if you get a good angle but 5vs1 with people actively trying to get you is something that only really works with the mobility of the p90

[paper vector]

Or just be 150m away with an ultimax

Can’t loose the fight if they can’t even shoot you

[inner monolith]

Exactly. But that's not really a 5vs1 scenario.

Also, even with the best build possible, you can't really hit full auto on people that are making good use of cover. IMO heavy barrel should decrease recoil a lot more.

[sweet sinew]

Again, disagree, if they know you're there then it's harder, but if your positioning is correct (the hard part of being a support) then mowing down 5 people isn't too difficult

[sweet sinew]

King.

[paper vector]

Are they ever?
When people get a lot of kills they usually do it by not engaging head on in any kind of fair fight

[inner monolith]

It's one thing to find a group of completely oblivious people to unload on from the back and another one to outplay multiple people who are actively seeking to kill you through superior maneuvering and reflexes. Only the latter I would call a proper versus.

[paper vector]

Fair

[fierce dawn]

cant wait til the mp5 guy tries an actually good SMG/PDW

its gonna blow his mind

[dry bobcat]

What do you suggest?

[fierce dawn]

MP7 feels like cheating

ime

you have full damage out to 40m, instead of 20 like most of the other SMGs

[livid carbon]

but you only have 25dmg mind you

[dry bobcat]

tried it, didn't much care for it, plus you have to be engineer

[livid carbon]

you can play it on assault (the better medic)

[inner monolith]

MP5 at 40m has 24 so it's a single point of difference while being much easier to full auto at that range

[idle valley]

it's grossly overtuned

it has like, the third best TTK in the whole game, essentially no recoil, and twice as forgiving damage fall-off compared to smgs

MP7 and groza are by far the most unbalanced guns in the game rn

[livid carbon]

"no recoil" lmao

[paper vector]

4th best for unarmoured, 9th best for armoured

which is pretty good

[idle valley]

you can very easily laser with it. compare it to something like the famas or AK5C, both of which have longer TTKs, as well as lower movement speed

[livid carbon]

but they have better velocity + range
the mp7 is definitely meta but it isn't broken

[idle valley]

the velocity is on-par with the SMGs, and it has twice the range before it starts losing damage

it's pretty blatantly overtuned

[livid carbon]

it goes dogshit past 40m in comparision to the other smgs, that's pretty much the same (vector excluded) it is that way for the same reason as the pp19

[idle valley]

okay, but it still outranges the other SMGs? despite also being better in CQC?

and it has 1.0 horizontal and vertical recoil for whatever reason?

if UMP got nerfed, then the MP7 needs to get nerfed as well

all it really needs is for the damage fall off to be brought down to earth. it'd still be extremely strong in CQC

[paper vector]

this sets the bar very low for what counts as lasering

[idle valley]

the point is that they have very similar TTKs

0.200, compared to MP7's 0.189

[livid carbon]

pp2000, pp19, mp5 and ump are all better at range from what i can tell

[paper vector]

pp19 sort of

but not really since ttk still matters at range

[idle valley]

UMP 💀

with worse recoil and damage fall-off starting at 20m

[livid carbon]

losing its 3sk at 39m

and arguably easier recoil due to the lower horizontal recoil and firerate

[oblique trout]

Support still has an error where the final Normal backpack you unlock is treated as a Heavy backpack with heavy stats. Image below is comparing the stats of a Normal backpack to this unintentionally heavy one.

Either this needs to have its stats reflect Normal, or it needs to be re-categorized into a Heavy backpack.

[lethal river]

might've gotten fixed just then in upcoming updates

[oblique trout]

@lethal river Saw that. I'd like to believe I helped out here.

[gilded dock]

So does the soound design thing mean Support is getting an indirect buff or nerf? Because it seems a heck of a lot like suppression, in a way.

[livid carbon]

oh yeah

suppression incoming
oki was just trolling all this time

fr fr

[lethal river]

Yeah the sound getting super muffled and the screen going dark when you're dying

It's pretty huge

It'll affect everyone more than it will support exclusively

This is essentially suppression no?

[paper vector]

Screen already goes dark when you’re dying

Though it seems it lasts longer now? Or is tied to HP rather than bullets flying past

[lethal river]

It's when you get hit

Even if you heal the effect will remain for 3-4 seconds

[jade cairn]

Support actually feels good now.

[lyric dust]

@woven fossil

[shadow rampart]

fighting helis with m249 is one of the best things in this game

[drifting mulch]

Seems like its best use aside from laying flat with a bipod. Im still not a fan of lmgs for combat overall.

[fringe tree]

Aggressive gameplay on support is with L86 or RPK16 so far… that or FAL guerrila tactics

[shadow rampart]

anyone not ge the rpk16 christmas skin in game despite claiming on twitch reward?

[drifting mulch]

Lsw im more fine with. It's just the 2 lmgs I just cant get into

[fierce dawn]

i think its bugged. mine's also missing when i have all the other ones

[halcyon herald]

In a fast paced arcade shooter where run n gun was and is still the meta, you cant expect to have the same results when you play LMGs like ARs or smgs. You have to slow down your playstyle similar to how you play DMRs, judt holding dominant positions and angles. This doesnt mean snagging a bipod and playing sniper, but you just have to be smart and creative instead of running in

Altho in a game like BBR i can totally get not liking or being able to get usrd to LMGs

[drifting mulch]

I feel like I have alot more success with dmrs than lmgs. I dont have to lie down or meet specific criteria to keep on target at long range for one.

I can shoot, move a bit if Im getting shot back and shoot again all in quick succession

[woven fossil]

In a game where fast paced run and gun is meta. LMGs being slower and less damage with slightly better range (and worse recoil tbh) makes them underpowered.

[drifting mulch]

Ye

I like battlefield 3 lmgs, where the big recoil ones have heavy damage and the low damage ones barely have any. But still they got the slow bandling and reloads which is fair with all those bullets

Meamwhile yeah in battlebit they deal average damage always

While having somewhat heavy recoil + slower handling & reload too

[obsidian sentinel]

Though i think LSWs are in a pretty nice spot rn

They can be considered superior versions to their ARs counterpart while losing out on some ads speed and movement speed

Ultimax is ok but the M249 is a bit iffy with its recoil being so Horizontal

For like m4a1 stats really

M249 might need some tweaks i suppose

It can use less H

So that people that usually worth their salt arent really forced to use bmc+flash hider

Though idk if Ultimax should get 32 dmg

Prob not

[woven fossil]

I feel like the M249 needs damage buffs given the Ultimax has superior range

[paper vector]

M249 does kill quite a lot faster than it

But a small buff to it I’d be cool with

[ruby lintel]

It just needs more balanced H recoil so that you can actually be a threat compared to the ar/smgs with .5 recoil lasering you

[halcyon herald]

Idt the m249 needs a buff because it alr got 1 from the support changes. I like the m249 being a gun that can absolutely shred squads if you position and use the gun properly, but its juxtaposed by its inability to laser (ultimaxx). But maybe a little hori recoil reduction will attract more players to use it

[paper vector]

The H recoil is certainly not so extreme that SMGs could outrange you

Thanks to the existence of attachments an unfavourable recoil profile isn’t so much of an issue as to an extent we can swap out one axis for another

[shadow rampart]

what will come first: m60 or mg3

[still ledge]

mg3
bottom text

[gilded dock]

Depends on which ones easier for modeling boy to do

[drifting mulch]

mg3 has less details

it has a bunch of big exhaust holes on the barrel that you can do in like 10 minutes with blender

[woven fossil]

fast armor is so much easier to kill with its not even funny. armor is so unbalanced

[obsidian sentinel]

Armor in general is iffy as hell

Especially Exo because it sucks

Maybe Exo helm is ok but Exo chest is incredibly bad

[woven fossil]

would be nice if the exo shoulderpads had a hitbox for proning

[flat sedge]

forgot the other LSWs/LMGs in route

[flat sedge]

Being honest I would be interested in seeing a rpm boost of like 50

[shadow rampart]

i think only other support gun inc is the aug hbar?

o theres also the ojy-201 and mg5

lots of support guns en route

[flat sedge]

let me grab the list

[shadow rampart]

none of those really interest me cuz i prefer high fire rate weapons

[shadow rampart]

scorpionevo is my fav cuz of 1200 rpm

[flat sedge]

keep in mind the fandom wiki hasn't been update to remove the rpk (the staff moved to wiki gg)

[shadow rampart]

when mg3 drops

[flat sedge]

we got MG5,MG3, M60, AUG Hbar, QJY-201 & PKP all coming for support

question be when

[shadow rampart]

need to set up on the bunker on the hill on isle A site for invasion

8 man mg3 mowing down the beach

[flat sedge]

best guess is next Support weapon will be the AUG HBAR (can reuse animations ; can repurpose the aug model you get the idea, a very easy one to do)

[shadow rampart]

[flat sedge]

I could be (& I hope I am) wrong

[drifting mulch]

CBJ-MS? I'm surprised

[summer prairie]

QJY poggers

[sweet sinew]

M249 is fine, you just need to use it at a different range than the ultimax, no point having two near identical weapons.

I'm really enjoying the MG36, it now slays and let's you turn support into a Heavy Assault

[real ember]

support culd have ability to resupply vehicles

[bright umbra]

Casually shoved 20mm rounds into an APC at unlimited capacity

[still ledge]

am i tweaking or it is becoming really difficult to hit armour in general

i should have not killed that many supports that fast aswell getting killed on the same rate

[livid carbon]

armor hitboxes feel really inconsistent ye

[still ledge]

he onl time i actually hit is when going for headshots

[gilded dock]

https://youtu.be/SvUjpKM9vMc?si=YmWAiEUYszTFNnDE

[still ledge]

i love video essays!!!!!!!!!!!

[magic basalt]

do supports really need battle rifles?

[livid carbon]

tbh no
on the other hand they only have 5 guns otherwise

[magic basalt]

so maybe oki should add in the other guns theyre supposed to have... instead of giving support access to the fal

[livid carbon]

that's a good one

[zenith carbon]

wait. they actually gave supports BRs

like i actually supported that but walked back in the hopes they'd... actually start leaning into the teamplay of the game lol

[magic basalt]

yes. ak15/fal exo support is guaranteed 1 kill per life if you're awake

[zenith carbon]

wh
why is the ak15 in the BR category

[magic basalt]

because oki is smooth brain

ak15/scar/fal and i think something else? idk i just been brain off trying to push through my last couple prestiges at this point. game is in a miserable spot. if it's not supports ratting with BR's it's the army of "snipers" playing assault with dmrs

[weary garden]

Y'all complain about the stupidest shit

[weary garden]

Also so you're truly up to date

[flat sedge]

being honest, I haven't noticed many other supports using BRs than myself , but I could be blind

[flat sedge]

fal in general is a 1 kill per life

[fierce dawn]

yeah i think i've actually noticed one guy goin in with the FAL+EXO? Everyone else who wants to use it runs assault it seems like

[flat sedge]

makes sense

Assault has faster reloads + faster ADS

mixed with faster swap speed if I recall

exo wise, exo helm makes some sense but chest as I have said (Several,plenty and etc) in the past "Exo chest is bad"

limited benefits for limitless penalties so to speak

[paper vector]

Exo helmet has far smaller benefits for relatively greater penalties, with the exception of versus sniper

that comparison doesn't really make sense

[flat sedge]

One hand it is a free bullet or two from any gun and by virtue of giving you a 100% it will save your face if full HP

mix in the fact we have HOW many snipers at times?

[paper vector]

not even a full bullet vs most guns

[flat sedge]

(It feels like some maps are 50% snipers at times)

37 HP helmet

so 4 tap guns will be fully absorbed

[paper vector]

37/1.5

[flat sedge]

3 tap guns it depends but will be mainly absorbed

[paper vector]

as most guns have 1.5x multiplier

also on the least hit body part

[flat sedge]

Still offers a anti OHK no matter how you look at it

Otherwise it still offers a decent bit of protection vs full auto weapons

without having a glairng weakpoint that is easily abused

[paper vector]

worst protection per move speed cost in the game, by some way

[flat sedge]

(Insert it is like fighting a WW2 open topped tank destroyer, but they forgot to put the armor around the turret fully)

(So you can just shoot the gunner with your small arms & ignore the protection he has)

Worst protection I suppose is subjective

It offers no weakpoint to bypass it if you aim for the head

which against a sniper makes their TTK of 0 go quite a bit higher

But anyhow we had this conversation prior

To the original point I unsure how many people use Fal Support like people were going nuts over prior to the weapon reclassification

[paper vector]

the limbs are right below it

[flat sedge]

Solar, that is the body than

But to the point

I feel the Fal is less a issue when paired with support than a assault in a lot of ways

[magic basalt]

assaults aren't using fal though. they're running dmr's and pretending to snipe or being the smg medic replacement with mp7's

[livid carbon]

smg medic replacement

[magic basalt]

i mean that's what i'm doing. mp7/p90/ak74 with assault bonuses goes stupid

[livid carbon]

🤷

[magic basalt]

i prestiged and realized that i really don't like the ump lol. been a vector medic for so long, mp7/p90 assault felt like taking off the training weights

[livid carbon]

finally

medics not reviving even in safe situations was just ass and straight up griefing in some situations.

[magic basalt]

meh, now nobody revives.

[paper vector]

I’m sure FAL is decently popular

[magic basalt]

on assault nah. every single battle rifle death i had for my entire run of prestige 7-8 (roughly 20 hours last weekend) was to a support prone in a corner or in a window.

[livid carbon]

i run the fal on assault occasionally

support is lmg and lsw time

[paper vector]

Hmm. There’s no counterargument to this but I can’t see much reason why this would be the case

Personally I don’t know why I’d be running support if it weren’t to run their exclusive weapons

[magic basalt]

they all had exo/exo so i'm guessing brute forcing their kd

since odds are if they get the jump on you your best case scenario is cracking one of their armor pieces off before you die

[woven fossil]

I think a lot of those ^ is people doing the Support kill weekly challenge. but not being used to the support exclusive guns or the armor so they just rat with rifles

[magic basalt]

idk between BR supports and people abusing dmrs i'm genuinely gonna get 10th prestige and uninstalling. i'm so done with how these people play

[brittle oak]

Fal + exo almost guarantees an even k/d (+ the resupply sustain) y wouldn’t they

[magic basalt]

Oh yeah, the FAL getting buffed was insane. I missed the part where they got rid of all the recoil in the patch notes. That gun is disgusting

Atleast before it took skill

[flat sedge]

being honest I feel the fal in itself will make sure you have a 1.0 KD or higher

[brittle oak]

Ye but not all players that good

[flat sedge]

by sounds the fal is the one needing nerfs if anything

Because exo chest ain't good by any means

[brittle oak]

It kinda is icl

[flat sedge]

icl?

[brittle oak]

I cant lie

[flat sedge]

Thing is like a certain french defensive line

walk around it

[brittle oak]

?

Tf does walking around it do, that just proves my point

[flat sedge]

1. doesn't protect the limbs
2. Limbs do 1x damage like the body
3. the arms cover a lot of the upper chest

Walk around it means if you see a brick wall do you go through the hardest point or simply walk around it which won't take long by any means

in this case

[brittle oak]

Y does everyone think hitting the limbs is the awnser lmfao

[flat sedge]

you walk around it easily

Because they are a slower target to start with

they will react slower than you in a lot of cases

[brittle oak]

“Skill issue 🤓☝️”

Like bro my aim is good but y not just aim for the head

Limbs harder to hit than the head icl

[flat sedge]

Not really

[brittle oak]

Yes really

[flat sedge]

legs tend to be very consisent

because worse case they go prone & you get headshots

[brittle oak]

Hence support can build sandbags

[flat sedge]

okay?

So this is going pre defined defense

not a random 1v1

[brittle oak]

U realise how fast and easy it is to make a sandbag

[magic basalt]

Random 1v1 you leg meta them same way it’s been for 6 months

[flat sedge]

I do

equally you recall how FAST this game's TTK is

[brittle oak]

Y cant u understand that most players dont aim for legs

[bright umbra]

Either way, aim for the head or the limbs, at the end of the day, EXO sucks

[flat sedge]

this equally assumes you have squad points + it isn't on CD

[bright umbra]

Exo is JUST bad

[magic basalt]

Most players suck were aware.

[brittle oak]

Lmao u get 1k for taking a point

[flat sedge]

Cabbage on CTF for example

you get 0 points

[bright umbra]

I had my first, count it FIRST time, where I actually felt someone lived a fight against me because of Exo

[flat sedge]

So we are looking at all modes here

which range HEAVILY

feast or famine so to speak

[brittle oak]

Modt players play conquest/dom

[flat sedge]

But exo chest only protects your chest

[brittle oak]

https://tenor.com/view/fig-gif-26092737

[flat sedge]

so to use a example

he is aimmed at me

you can see how much the arms cover his chest

[brittle oak]

Point blank js easy to hit anything tho

[flat sedge]

Cabbage

you get the idea of what I am saying

[brittle oak]

Bruh any fights past 40/50 metres ur not hitting that

[flat sedge]

So I am going to press F to doubt

[magic basalt]

Closer to 70-80 actually is when it gets hard to consistently hit a specific spot

[flat sedge]

but cabbage the exo helmet I could see a case made against

But exo chest I see 0 reason

there is a reason why a lot of support mains go heavy chest at most

[brittle oak]

Not really if its soooo easy to hit the limbs up to 70/80m

[flat sedge]

Not really towards what to clarify

[brittle oak]

Directed towards this. . .

[flat sedge]

Helmet wise has a bonus damage multiplier

ranges from 1.2x to 1.9x if I recall

chest is a 1x, limbs are 1x

Limbs are fully unprotected

[brittle oak]

Like yea if u run exo ull get folded by the guy in the top of the lobby but it means if avg players have the drop on you, you wont loose

This is what km trying to say

[flat sedge]

err

Average in which way

one who knows leg meta will blast you away

or just hits your arms

[brittle oak]

Average as in average like u rlly think average people care about leg meta and all

[flat sedge]

Average is based on the area & server to be blunt lol

[brittle oak]

Tru ig km speaking from experience

[flat sedge]

I have seen some severs where average is higher skill ranges than on a offical

I have some where it is below what I expect on a offical

[brittle oak]

Either way j just love the instant build

[flat sedge]

so call my curious

[brittle oak]

So good for closing angles

[flat sedge]

name all 3 parts of support's passive?

[brittle oak]

Instantly builds and idk

[flat sedge]

1. Instant intial building
2. Faster constructing
3. Faster deconstructing

[brittle oak]

Oh ye

[brittle oak]

Y u ask?

[flat sedge]

I was curious if you even knew

most know about the instant intial building

But few non support mains know the other two

[brittle oak]

I forgot ig cuz i played support first month of release then continued to get 5k rpg kills

The l86 back then 🥲

[flat sedge]

aye I recall the 3 tap wonder it was

[brittle oak]

Frfr

[bright umbra]

God save the king

[still ledge]

exo chest really drops in how useful it can be when you are behind something like a barricade when using a bipod

outside of that it works when getting shot from the back

like the only time i can think of that you have an advantage with it

[fierce dawn]

because thats what we do

it's insanely easy to shoot the legs, and the arms are in front of the chest armor if they're looking even vaguely your way

60% of your hitbox is entirely unprotected regardless of how much movespeed you sacrifice for armor

[brittle oak]

did u not read any of the conversation that ensued

like bro . . .

[fierce dawn]

not reading 20 paragraphs from someone who cant aim down

[brittle oak]

daimond in aimlab

[fierce dawn]

even sadder if true

ngl

[brittle oak]

xD

[meager salmon]

Yay more "skill issue" bickering in a feedback thread

[brittle oak]

frfr

[still ledge]

tbh if you are in that situation alot

you wont have your chest exposed, and it makes positioning harder aswell

removing that your arms are exposed and by luck you can die faster than you should

so just more exo chest things

exo is difficult af to balance because of how the characters are design in general

dont even want to see how making exo cover limbs as a buff would work because it would be fuck anoying

even more if you make so people can ressuply it

[flat sedge]

this raises a question in my head

#dev-wip message

support is getting ranger & normal armor

apperently

wonder who gets exo & empty armor?

[bright umbra]

Exo Medic

[paper vector]

they already had normal and ranger is just worse for support players

[flat sedge]

my bad on the normal

ranger wise I can see some value in

lets you go lighter builds which will be more lacking on the ammo boxes

mix in the fact you can't pick up the ammo boxes after they get dropped you'll be more limited if moving about

[paper vector]

Still 2 full refills. Support weapons except the L86A1 hold more ammo than regular ones with normal armour, and with 2 full refills that’s just not going to run out easily. Assault only gets 1 and it’s hard to run out with that

And, a good 1/4 of teammates will have ammo kits on them that you can ask for if you do run out anyway, and in areas of intense fighting there’ll be ammo kits and supply drops just lying around anyway

[flat sedge]

keep in mind, a support is incentived to keep the last box to resupply others

[paper vector]

nobody is really going to not supply themselves if they run out of ammo

[flat sedge]

Than mix the fact the L86 is not a half bad gun in his kit by any means

I am not saying that solar

I am saying ranger makes some more sense

with that in mind

[paper vector]

that still wouldn't make a difference unless ranger prevented them from running out of ammo

[flat sedge]

using normal vs ranger is effectively getting a tier up on ammo capacity without the downsides to the MS & such

aka lets you be more aggressive

[paper vector]

ranger has the same move speed as normal

[flat sedge]

Solar

I meant ranger is getting you heavy class ammo

without the downsides of using heavy compared to the normal's default package

[paper vector]

ok, I did not think that was what you meant

[flat sedge]

My bad on the wording everything considered

But to the point, if your aim is to be a light & Speedy support and to save the box drops for when you mainly need bandages, ranger makes the most sense to me

For a traditional support playstyle I agree with you, ranger makes less sense

[paper vector]

bandages is a valid argument

I did not actually think of that

[flat sedge]

to me, ranger stands as a extra stamina bar prior to a more valuable resource resupply such as grenades & bandages

for a aggressor playstyle

if they made the boxes able to be picked up through I would lean towards your view more

[paper vector]

Running out of bandages is pretty rare for support as well though, again seems like a small consideration

Though you could argue in such cases that the durability loss of ranger also counts for little

[flat sedge]

well running out as in including or excluding the boxes?

[paper vector]

including

[flat sedge]

So assuming you drop a box you may not get the full value if you need to resupply purely for ammo

[paper vector]

I run exo which has less ammo capacity than medium armour, but running out of bandages or ammo is extremely unlikely

[flat sedge]

this is looking at a aggressive moving playstyle as a headsup

not the traditional

[paper vector]

full value only becomes relevant when we actually need it. Much like how medic infinite heal capability only matters in cases where you'd actually run out of bandages

[flat sedge]

you get the idea of what I mean through

[paper vector]

I know what you mean, yes

[flat sedge]

I am not speaking of ammo full value to clarify

[paper vector]

I just can't relate to it

[flat sedge]

I am speaking of the reduction to your bandages & grenades

[paper vector]

I do run out of grenades as support occasionally. Specifically wakistan bridge :)

only scenario I can remember that actually happening in

but in such cases I don't tend to underutilise the grenade components of the boxes.

[flat sedge]

well just keep in mind if you resupply for ammo when using normal, you will not get the full load from one of your two boxes

thus wasting the rather valuable & more limited stock compared to the ammo

[woven fossil]

me glancin at the mg3 mg5 m60 qjy-201 aug hbar leaked 6 months ago

[livid carbon]

pkp too

[still ledge]

who launchs first
project zomboid build 42
or
new guns for support

[livid carbon]

zomboid i'm sure lmao

[ruby lintel]

look how long it took to get the rpk, support players growing grey hair rn

[livid carbon]

5 months, 2 if we're being generous with how we are measuring our time (after g3/f2k dropped)

[woven fossil]

Was a PKP leaked?

[livid carbon]

ye

[woven fossil]

Wheremst

[livid carbon]

with all the other guns

surprised you don't know lol

[still ledge]

i hate how i didnt liked to play with the ''new weapons'' we got for support

specially how you do it worse than other class with close to no upside if not after the first 1v1

also i rarely see support with other weapons

[fossil lion]

Support should automatically get bipods & extended mags for battle rifles

[gilded dock]

Agree with the bipod, unsure what you mean with getting extended mags. All the battle rifles have extended mags except for the g3.

[still ledge]

i think he meant like drum mags

[idle valley]

erm akshualy support already got a new gun it's called the RPK 🤓

[still ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-shut-up-gif-25699987

[woven fossil]

I only know of the 14 leaked twitch skins and the PKP isn't one

[woven fossil]

To be fair the RPK slaps but it's not an LMG so I don't wanna use it for 10 hours straight

[livid carbon]

it's on the wiki afaik

[woven fossil]

in a game where speed is king. supports the slowest and therefore worst.

excited for the new lighter armor options soon but I have a feeling it might not be enough

[still ledge]

huge changes ngl

[flat sedge]

I am just hoping the new LMGs will be good

same for the LSWs

[ruby lintel]

Give me Brewster armor and a maxim gun and I’ll be happy

[gilded canopy]

Here we go again...

[livid carbon]

starting class and the slowest speed?

devs cooking up that zaza

[gilded canopy]

no ammo box and inertia only for the slowest class????? bruh

[livid carbon]

inertia for everyone

classic oki sentence fuck up

[lyric dust]

no ammo box?

[gilded canopy]

i read it in reddit, hope that is a misunderstanding

[weary garden]

sort of

[gilded canopy]

ok thats better then hahahah

[lyric dust]

https://tenor.com/view/kurt-angle-gif-15112361227290036695

[weary garden]

It's oki thinking about giving ammo to another class in exchange for armor refilling

or vice versa

[lyric dust]

Oki can you like, be fucking normal

[weary garden]

Oki suggested engineer, I think larry brought up support armor and assault ammo

[gilded canopy]

Yeah, that

[weary garden]

So it's not oki it's larry technically

those were just off the cuff thoughts so nothing to worry about yet

[gilded canopy]

Seems like an awful idea ngl, why not make us choose between armor box and ammo box?

[weary garden]

but I don't think support is getting both the ammo box and armor box

cuz that's unbalanced?

It'd be the medic problem x2

except support would now have hp refill, armor refill, and ammo refill

[lyric dust]

Maybe fix armor before changing something like that

[weary garden]

they're reworking armor to just be bonus health

so

fixed!

Assault or engi are more likely to get armor refill tbh

maybe in exchange for small ammo kit

[lyric dust]

Give it to engi

[weary garden]

tthat's what oki's thinking

[lyric dust]

Assault is already insane

[weary garden]

that's also what oki's thinking

[lyric dust]

Ok

Thats

Tolerable

[sweet sinew]

Armor is already bonus health

[weary garden]

yea but now it's not a hitbox

[still ledge]

jesus what happened

oh damn just saw the post on reddit

dont have that much ideia on what almost everything does

just looks like support is becoming a straight specialist if im not thinking wrong

dont know will just wait and see

[idle valley]

that's so dumb

literally the worst way you could go about fixing armor

it's so joever battlebit bros...

[still ledge]

joever for the 10 support mains

[flat sedge]

So how is the amror getting fixed?

[lyric dust]

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-40k-warhammer-no-meme-gif-15084429411958404464

[still ledge]

didnt saw t

but suport will get a straight health buff

saw nothing about armour

so im assuming that if he gets 50 extra health plus the exo, to kill one you gonna have to do 200 damage

[paper vector]

It certainly seems... interesting

I read that support will be given a tactical sprint where you just charge at higher speeds, and inertia. Which will make the class feel totally different to play

I think it's an interesting concept.

[fossil lion]

We just need a sledgehammer on support and we can have support-knight

[still ledge]

he got a nerf on his speed basically

so even more of a specialist than before

[heavy sage]

all clasess are given tac sprint

[gilded canopy]

W

i think they should also increase the spawn of quads

or when a point is taken, the quads from that point respawn :b

i mean, driving in this game is awful, but it does help to have them at hand

[weary garden]

The animation rework seems to have led to a movement rework

[still ledge]

@small hull @strange field also yeah, bipods stat wise are worth

maybe some minor changes but it isnt like how garbage it was before

i run full bipod on lmgs and lsws

ultimax becomes so good with it

[strange field]

With snipers and dmrs I find them to work fine

I’ll try them on some support guns

[still ledge]

just a heads up, with the m249 you still are locked to mid and short range combat

but you can hit more reliale and go nuts

long ranges are worth if your oponent doesnt have cover and it isnt a sniper or a ultimax support

bipod is just worth if you like building and be more about being passive though

running and gunning it isnt worth

lsws would be a good choice if the drum mags werent garbage though

[small hull]

Ok, in summary

add suppression to stop nerfing snipers for example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odaNHtki_QY&t=2s

Similar to this, it works in medium and long periods but in short periods the suppression effect does not work.

That produces tremor when aiming and bullet dispersion when you are in suppression effect

Of course, other classes can use suppressive fire, but the most indicated is support from their machine guns.

If not done this way

https://youtu.be/lXhfjTGn2Fc?t=374

We will have OP machine guns like in Battlefield V that are lasers as soon as the machine gun bipods are repaired

[still ledge]

im ok with a supression type to be added in a branch but its definetly gonna change fights alot

it can be something that can affect alot

worth trying it out but oki definetly doesnt like the ideia of one being added

he could make bleeding somewhat more prevelant but it can bring its own problems to the table

[small hull]

Believe me brother, when you see a guy firing a machine gun 200 meters away from you and you have no way to counterattack, you realize that the suppression system was not as bad as it seemed.

[still ledge]

i mean snipers and dmrs are the way to counter attack and get shutdown with it

i think the concern is like

20 support players

but eh im more on the neutral ground when it comes to this game adding supression

[small hull]

Let him play Battlefield V, with about two or three games he will change his mind quickly

[small hull]

Of course, but what do you do if on the enemy team, apart from the support soldiers, there are snipers? At what point does it give you the opportunity to fight back?

[still ledge]

tbh can we really compare these games, one is where everyone runs at march five, also the map situation can be different that makes so fights are different, either full close quarters that smgs dominate and or no mans land map where long range weapons or low recoil ones dominate in bbr

[still ledge]

what i do is run and not face him

or do a full on flank and kill him from behind

mock him for bonus point if i died 4 times by his hand

[small hull]

Brother, the weapon balance in Battlefield V I'm not lying to you, it's the same as Battlebit, second, don't add a topic to the maps, at this point we all know that the maps need rework just like the weapons

[still ledge]

but anyways i have almost no position on this matter, good if it happen, good if it doesnt

can i get a new weapon

[small hull]

And for these things I don't like to talk about swings because they directly take away the maps, the movement, the weapons, since everything is broken haha

They want to repair things in the game, but they bring out these examples

Look, after fixing maps, weapons, and movement, it is revised to add the suppression

[still ledge]

thats basically what it should be done

map, classes and weapons are probably the main thing that should be concerned, it affects basically the entire gameplay loop you can get and make so it doesnt get stale with the classes

[small hull]

Exactly, but after making these balances, the bipod is buffed and yes or yes a suppression system has to be added, even if Oki doesn't like it

[still ledge]

ngl the only thing im against is a bipod buff

it is in a good place and it works

something like the l86 with a drum may not be good with a 3x scope and mid range but close range while behind a sandbag makes it so accurate

without drum it may be good on mid ranges

if we get a drum rework or buff that makes the recoil lower it can make bipod+drum be good on lsws

[small hull]

Well , do you see that it's not very difficult to balance the game if you don't make excuses for every little detail? ha ha

[still ledge]

i dont think the problem with the drums is little at all

[small hull]

I mean the majority of people who make every type of argument haha

[still ledge]

magazines in general that arent quick ones

[still ledge]

i mean if we dont we may aswell make the recoil decrease higher and then when a buff for support comes around it makes it broken

those are just the big pictures of what can happen and bc a magazine rework was said that it is in the works

better just leave the bipod as it is when it comes around

if it needs some changes, well change it

[weary garden]

he did, he didn't

[still ledge]

so used to the old diego pfp that i was wondering why he looks like someone i met before

[small hull]

What?

[weary garden]

he did (play battlefield), he didn't (change his mind)

in fact when he did he realized battlefield doesn't have teamplay

[small hull]

He has played Battlefield, but apparently never Battlefield V to know that removing the suppression system with machine guns with functional bipods is not the best idea.

[weary garden]

ok buddy

[small hull]

He know that this depends from game to game and happens in any team game, right?

[weary garden]

#battlebit-eng message

[small hull]

I remember that about Vilaskis haha, well I don't know, but at least for my part I do have my team pushing, reviving, giving ammunition, and of course communicating through text chat, as I say there are games and games, but that doesn't mean say that there is only teamplay with friends

[fossil lion]

20 coordinated players can already devastate with any weapon
20 coordinated players with LMGs is already be a highly effective way of ripping up players. Overlapping fields of fire make most cover invalid; players guarding angles invalidate most flanking attacks; a few players with Ultimaxes, bipods, and 4x scopes keep snipers in check.

[small hull]

And to prevent this from happening or giving some stupid nerf to the support, suppression is added

[fossil lion]

Replace support with recon, LMGs with snipers, and Ultimaxes with M200s and it still basically works.

Or replace all of them with engineers and all the weapons with RPGs and it now also works aginst vehicles, albeit at the cost of reduced endurance.

[small hull]

So what idea do you offer brother?

[fossil lion]

These are non-issues because co-ordinating 20 people is exceedingly difficult.
Hell, it's hard for me to just co-ordinate 4 people, much less 20

[fossil lion]

My argument was just to say that 20 support players coordinating is already powerful and yet you don't see 20-man strike groups sweeping through servers, devastating any exposed person in their line of sight

[small hull]

Oh! Sorry brother for that, the truth is that it gets tiring to give ideas and for anything, even the smallest mistake is of no use.

[still ledge]

if only we could create custom servers to see what class is best when doing these stackings

would actually be a good way to know when something happens that makes one really popular

[still ledge]

also to add, saying that if supression mechanic is added this would be much worse since now firepower without actually having to hit will make classes like sniper and dmr users have a hard time to do anything when most of the enemy can just spray and pray until something gets hit while the sniper basically cant counter attack

and you dont need to coordinate, just someone pinging or a sniper trail will call the attention of everyone and they will focus it down if they can

but this is just a situation for something that wasnt even added to the game

just really skeptical about adding it

[small hull]

And then what solution is there for snipers according to you and that is not nerfing them or any other class?

[still ledge]

actually make maps not be no mans land?

[small hull]

But other than this

[still ledge]

also isnt sniper in a bad position where if they miss their shot or not kill you they are basically spotted for everyone not just you

[still ledge]

mfw thats basically what can make the class bad or not most of the time

some maps aswell affect support since he is a more close to mid range that cant reliable dodge bullets on how slow he is

[small hull]

But I'm talking about the supresion, not the support brother

[still ledge]

your question on how to balance sniper, i responded it already

the support thing was just extra about the whole map balance i mentioned on sniper

[small hull]

....

I gave the sniper as an example, yes, but in general it is adding the suppression mechanic

the case

Battlefield V already demonstrated with few players that a good map design can save you, but it won't completely stop snipers, or machine guns, or whatever is shooting at you from a distance.

[still ledge]

we have something close already and it is bleed, it makes so anyone getting hit having to stay out of the fight with makes them go to cover while letting you get ground or and you get an advantage since you are aiming on his position already

and it goes against with oki ideia of supression rewarding missing

problem is that it sometimes doesnt work and for a good reason, it can be annoying to fight if you are getting damage overtime

you could make so it does less damage but fucks your aim

or having some of the bfv debuffs of supression

list goes on

[small hull]

As I told you, BFV does not have suppression effects.

nothing

[still ledge]

my bad bf1

didnt played that much of bfv

bf1 cavalry is just too good

but though some debuff when getting hit could be a good choice

but i never saw someone doing this outside of bleed and it can be a bad one aswell

removing games like tarkov where you are basically worthless when getting shot in the arms

or scratched in project zomboid

but its another game

[small hull]

Well, a type of suppression that affects the character's bleeding also sounds good.

That would balance things for both the attacker and the defender.

And if this goes against Oki's ideology, but well, Oki himself has already broken his ideology on two occasions, so one more but in this case, for the best for the game and not the best for him, it doesn't do harm anyone

[still ledge]

i think i fucked up my wording there

like it doesnt go with the ideia that you missed and got rewarded

you had to actually hit your enemy for it to work

[still ledge]

truer

but i think something like this should be explored more

if it is so shit that it makes the game worse yeah we never listen to me again lmao

[small hull]

Look brother, I prefer to stay with this than continue discussing the truth, from my perspective it is the best for the game, and if Oki thinks it is bad, let him try Battlefield V, with a couple of games he will understand that supresion is not such a bad thing. As it seems, by the way, the funny thing is that the game that he praises so much, which is Squad, also has suppression, Squad is very realistic but it still has suppression, with that I say everything

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SabLYFfBFiM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBeK7t5kMcA

That is to say, he praise these two games, but he don't like mechanics that also appeared in these, what do he want then? Operation Locker 2?

With this I leave the conversation there, have a good night :3

[flat sedge]

if I recall DMRs & snipers in that game were effected greatest & other weapon classes were different on suppression intake

[small hull]

Yes, and of course here it would be a bit of balancing or modification on Oki's part to make it work correctly (in addition to the fact that of course it is the dev, we cannot give the mechanics with its balances done on a silver platter)

[flat sedge]

It has at best Two effects ; a screen effect & if you are the machine gunner, auto spots

[flat sedge]

Team fortress classic sniper could leg shot to slow enemies if I recall

[small hull]

What is that "auto-spots" effect like?

[flat sedge]

pretty much machine gunner subclass for support allows him to spot targets when he fully suppresses them

spot works like normal spotting in BF

main difference is you now have a second way to apply it

that doesn't need direct line of sight or such

[small hull]

Oh! Well, good suppression ideas brother hehe, I would add that it might give you a small bullet dispersion effect, but something small hehe

[magic basalt]

i think last time suppression got heavily discussed most people were against suppression affecting aim etc and i know oki said he wasn't a fan of "rewarding people for missing" but who knows

[small hull]

But it depends on what type of suppression fire you want to put in the game, one that only affects visually, another that affects both gameplay and visuals, I think the latter is the best to not have to continue nerfing classes like the sniper or others that can attack from a distance

[small hull]

Also, it seems a little silly to me that Oki is not in favor of this mechanic, given that the two shooters that Battlebit is most based on have it.

[magic basalt]

snipers/dmrs only need adjustments because the maps are open fields, you could do visual suppression but i don't think gameplay suppression is actually fun with 127v127

[small hull]

fixing the maps everything is possible hehe

[still ledge]

this basically

64vs 64 can work

127 can really make things worse

or chaotic with is good or bad depending on who you ask

[still ledge]

oh yeah i forgot about that

[small hull]

And why would it work in 64vs64 from your perspective?

[still ledge]

less players=less people supressing you

[magic basalt]

if we got movement slow from tagging like cs has i'm pretty sure half the leftover pop would leave

[still ledge]

true

i think a easy option and prob lazy it is just to look into the bleeding mechanic more

with something more direct like more damage but goes away overtime, it makes your aim worse while bleeding or indirect like making bandages be in less quantity for someone

[flat sedge]

well saying the sniper in TFC could shoot precisely the legs to slow enemies down

[magic basalt]

yeah was just expanding on that, not hard to hit any part of the body in bbr. we all wide as fuck

[small hull]

But let's go for the same thing hehe, enlarging the maps to a decent size for 256 players there would be no problem

[magic basalt]

you could fit 256 on the current maps

they're already slightly oversized

[small hull]

Some maps lack size, and others have a lot of people at a very specific point. If there was a way to enlarge some maps and others, put more capture points to disperse the players more, it would work.

For example, this map (I don't remember the name haha) is very centralized, making it more of a "conquest" than the "advance" game mode.

And flying with spectator mode, notice that it has different points where capture points can be placed

[magic basalt]

that's valley, and it's one of those awful maps where snipers are everywhere. played earlier and there were 3 different squads defending eachother around 1 building

so tedious

[small hull]

Therefore, the surroundings are not used, if more coverage and more capture points are added around it it is fixed.

But currently it is very centralized, it is literally a straight line of capture point

[magic basalt]

yeah, the entire edge of the map is used, by snipers

[still ledge]

and its half of the server

there isnt many reason for you as any other class to go there

outside of puting a hidden spawn beacon close to c

and or killing those snipers you hate

[magic basalt]

yep

[small hull]

Or another map would be wakistan, which has a LARGE part of decoration

And all the combat is on the bridge

[still ledge]

i think wakistan is a unque one

even adding there wouldnt change people charging the bridge

half want to kill instead of capturing point

[magic basalt]

ye, you just need to cut that off tbh. and then add more obstructions in the central valley

[still ledge]

yeah

[magic basalt]

snipers on F (especially an issue on the lower playercount version where there isn't even an obj there) have view of the whole map from F

[still ledge]

also if you are a squad leader, pput a beacon there

literally spawncamping and back caping the entire match

[magic basalt]

you can't walk through the lower valley because of sniper positions on F and B/C

[still ledge]

just more vegetation

could be something close to a rainforest

[just difficult to see if you dont destroy every tree

prob the only time i wouldnt want for it to be destructable

[magic basalt]

i'd say you need to go even bigger. put something huge in that lower valley that blocks vision from F to C

[still ledge]

really unoriginal and ironic, a big ass bridge that connects the underground exit from c to the other side

from f

my bad

[magic basalt]

could work

[magic basalt]

if you cut off the excess behind F and push F a little bit closer might make it interesting

[still ledge]

also i like how alot of squad leader has orders to f

but there is no one there lmao

everyone is just protecting the bridge

[magic basalt]

it's automatic, but nobody follows it

so it just stays there

[still ledge]

started to play l86 with default mag and bipod

literally cannot go back to playing m249

[hot solar]

I still like there thought in the dev streams of
"movement is super broken, so we are going to force new players to play support so they dont have to worry about movement when they start." I kinda understand the logic of its the tankyest class.

• it's very limited on weapons which isn't good for new players to experience the game

• the armor system sucks so your losing movement for not much benefits (they even said the movement was op in stream) which will just make new players fustrated when older players are zig zagging around them the class they are playing is to slow to properly do that

• it keeps new players from trying to play as team roles when they first start so the people who just started and want to run around and be medics can't or players who want to play recon and actually recon for there squad can't.

It would really just make a lot of new players feel limited and forced to play the game in a way they wouldn't like.

I would rather suggest having players start as assault with a medium armor loadout over this, because it has access to the most weapons starting out and it best fits the most common play style of Battle Bit. Really though you shouldn't stop new players from playing any of the classes starting out.

[jaunty shoal]

Thoughts on letting supports carry two primarys at the cost of more movement speed instead of a primary and a pistol?

Support seems to be the "heavy" class with its exo armor and LMGs, so it makes sense that they would have extra gun. If could also be part of their resupply mechanic when the ammo box lets you change attachmants or change weapons.

This would help out the class to be more flexible in long and short range fights.

[paper vector]

I think they’re heavy enough

An LMG is kinda the same as carrying 3 assault rifles anyway

[sweet sinew]

Yea, I mean you're stationary a lot as support, you "camp" good angles and deny area (until you get quick-scoped). Support feels like one of the few classes that's actually in a nice position currently, they do one thing real good and everything else badly

It has a well-defined role

[still ledge]

prob the only thing that needs attention is the armour and variety of weapons

[sweet sinew]

I think the variety of weapons is good, I think it's strong

Each has their own strengths/ weaknesses, you essentially have 5 weapons no other class gets access to

I mean, there's 5 weapons, but the True Support only uses the Ultimax and MG36

[still ledge]

support
not pick the m249

https://tenor.com/view/what-why-havent-we-killed-this-mf-kill-this-mf-kill-this-guy-ban-this-guy-mf-die-gif-18236210805183010444

[jaunty shoal]

Too bad theres no suppression mechanic and the only thing support can do to "support" the team is resupply ammo (everyone insta respawns anyways) and quickly build fortifications (smg players dont care )

[small hull]

Don't talk about suppression fire mechanics here, they light torches and come for your head hahaha

[jaunty shoal]

Lmao. Well are there any other possible perks to using an lmg over an assault rifle besides a bigger mag?

[still ledge]

bipod

also we cant really use assault rifles

a better one would be lsws with atleast with the m249 it does fall flat

ultimax is the only lmg that hold its own for that low recoil

[small hull]

But what exactly is the bipod used for? because the bipod has the same control functionality in Squad, almost nothing, except that in Squad you at least had the suppression and people usually die from 1 to 3 shots, here the bipods for an arcade game are simply for decoration, plus of course any soldier can flank you with the speed of the average Usain Bolt there is, Use all the arguments you want but that does not change that machine guns are nothing more than rifles with large magazines and less precision in this game

[still ledge]

i dont see how they have less precision than assault rifles

and really that is a bold point to make about the bipod has almost no funcionality in this game, l86 and ultimax being a good example on how the bipod can make them alot more stronger

the l86 basically replaces the m249 bc of the bipod
it may not have the same ammo counter but it can kill faster while being easier to control

but though the ll86 in general is just an amazing weapons that sometimes it feels unfair to compare it to the m249

[still ledge]

comparing the m249 with stuff like ultimax and mg36, it has its own upsides and downsides that makes not be replaced

[sweet sinew]

Quick build, if used well, is absolutely amazing. Bipods are amazing, support can easily deny an area or tie up a much larger group of players. It just needs a bit more brain power to play well as it's 80% positioning and 20% aiming

[still ledge]

Yeah support is definetly in a good place right now
Other classes can do better some jobs better than support or have better weapons but he is definetly far from bad

The only thing that needs some work to make it perfect is the armour itself

[sweet sinew]

It's got a good class identity, I feel like most of the other classes lack that

[jaunty shoal]

Yeah, the instant build times is especially nice for trench warfare-type battles like the bridge on Wakistan. I wish you could get assists and score for people using your cover to push tho - i know Valorant has an assist system for "enemies blocked" smokes, as well as exit frags

[lyric dust]

The problem with bipods is they are very finicky on sandbags

[sweet sinew]

on anything really

[lyric dust]

It procs while prone pretty easily

As long as you aren't strafing

[paper vector]

sandbags are like the most easy to use surface for bipods

they're a good height and fairly wide / thick compared to some things

[jaunty shoal]

What are the stats when using a bipod exactly? The wiki only shows the stats when not using it

[paper vector]

-30% to H and V recoil I believe

[weary garden]

and first shot

[sweet sinew]

I think it's better than that, maybe -50%

[weary garden]

Used to be

But it stacked on downsides

Now with no downsides it's 30%

[paper vector]

Nah, definitely not that much

-50% to both would make it barely existent for most things

[sweet sinew]

I feels more like it increases control heavily, your gun still jumps around but it returns to centre much more quickly

[paper vector]

There is no return to center in this game

[sweet sinew]

Or whatever the multiplicative effect the control stat has

[livid carbon]

controll, literally nothing
and even if it did it apperantly only applies to hipfire

[sweet sinew]

I'm big-unsure on this, I remember doing tests where I built weapons to have both max control and min control, it seemed to have a pretty big effect on sustained fire

[paper vector]

there is no way to do that without impacting other stats

[sweet sinew]

Yea but in most cases, the recoil is improved

[livid carbon]

that's not controlls fault lol

[sweet sinew]

No, I mean the recoil stats

[jaunty shoal]

Changing the control only by adding different scopes/side rail attachments looks like it does nothing as well

From 0.01 to 0.09 should be a 9x difference but im not seeing anything

[dry bobcat]

that would be funny if it turns out that it's just a bug that oki forgot about

[still ledge]

and then completely changes the weapon meta for some reason

it would actually be funny

[tame night]

I think the support should be able to deploy the spawn beacons to give the class some more utility and to not have it locked behind being squad leader

[flat sedge]

would be a interesting idea

Supports are effectively the defense & builders so it make sense

[jaunty shoal]

Also i have never seen a squad leader other than myself (support main) build rally points

[sweet sinew]

Building rally points is just awkward, I hope the whole build mechanics (and squad rally points) gets a revamp at some point

Rally points should cost nothing

[jaunty shoal]

Nah, rally points should cost something. Its buildables that should cost nothing. Its so painful to play support in frontline because getting points is impossible

Or maybe im used to the free 1000 points i get at the start of dom/conq when the team caps the closest point

[jaunty shoal]

But yeah, its should be easier to build the world trade center out of hesco walls and put a rally point on top (like that one reddit post). Currently, its so finicky to place rally points anywhere that isnt a completely flat area

[sweet sinew]

Rally points shouldn't need a whole fortress to protect them, just make them smaller

And easier to use

and remove squad spawning

[zenith carbon]

i genuinely can't believe they're so huge

they have a comparable sihouette to the humvee but the humvee can move

[sweet sinew]

Wouldn't go that far but they're obnoxiously big

[flat sedge]

either that or tougher & more resilent to harm (Guess we could take some ideas from squad's mechanics)

[gilded canopy]

This is more a question than feedback but is the drawspeed of bandages / ammobox / gadgets dependant on the drawspeed of the main weapon or why it feels like assault and medic have faster drawspeed?

[gilded canopy]

Maybe someone could ask to put a rally point in X place of the map, and a prompt shows to the squad leader autorizing the placement of that rally... it stills put the rally use on the hands of the squad leader but it helps remind people that this mechanic exists

[tame night]

It’s due to your main weapon especially if it’s a lmg are really heavy and so it makes your switch times really bad

[gilded canopy]

Wow ngl thats awful, it feels so clunky between that and the bad input buffering :s

[tame night]

One thing that would help support have a more passive role is for teammates to be able to resupply themselves if they hit a key on a supports backpack allowing for a better team focused role of not having to worry about ammo

[dry tinsel]

i find the exo armor to be very underpowered for how slow it makes you the time to kill in this game is very fast and that fraction of a second it saves you does nothing most of the time and on top of that the enemy can just not shoot the armor. also i don't feel very supportive since most players don't need ammo since they'll likely die before they run out. giving the lmgs suppression would be cool and definitely make them feel more impactful cause honestly the are pretty meh they're not bad but they aren't good either they just exist.

oh and the armor is good for one ecounter and after that you're just really slow

[flat sedge]

Fraction of a second it Can, not Will save you

Big downsides for a possibility, but that possibility is due to aim (Arms & Legs have 0 armor + a 1x damage, arms cover up half the chest roughly with only exo helmet protecting the face)

[flat sedge]

personally I like the idea of allowing support more constructables such as a ammo depot for infantry & vehicles (Just walk up and grab the ammo, maybe make it generate over time if infinite is too strong)

[tame night]

I think also that support should have the respawn beacon to actually support the troops versus squad leader needing to be the one to place it

[flat sedge]

I'll be honest

I'll be happy with any class but recon getting respawn beacons

[gilded dock]

MG emplacements would also be cool.

[flat sedge]

some support construction ideas I had in the past

1. Buff Barbed Wire (most effective way without damage is make it so the faster your movement, the more opposed it becomes aka Sprint jump makes it feels like a brick wall, but the slower you move, the less effect it has on you)
2. a placable tripod MG
3. a single standing wall that allows you to fire from standing on equal ground (So think the current trick simplified)

Below could be limited to objectives
4. Buildable Ammo Depots (Detonates when destroyed via explosions or such ; resupplies infantry and vehicles)
5. armor repair depot (Ammo depot but armor effectively)
6. Medical Tent/station (Just healing)

[jaunty shoal]

Love these suggestions

I wanna army corp of engineers the shit outta Support

[dry tinsel]

I like the idea of a place able tripod mg but you'd get sniped or naded before you could actually make good use of it it would be cool but very niche

[gilded dock]

If you built it right, and it had the same power as a humvee mounted mg, you could totally doom-tunnel one.

Alternatively, just placing it on the inside of a building or tunnel system

[still ledge]

Armour repair and medic tent should be just for engie ngl

Support right now is unique when compared to other classes qhile engie is just assault with rpg
Like make him be able to build more stuff and be that guy that builds instead of one that just destroys

[tame night]

I think that the structures might need to take the place of a gadget as to not allow for unlimited placement or it having a long cool down similar to spawn beacons or air drops

speaking of air drops if support was able to call in a supply drop and have it arrive quickly instead of waiting 5 minutes i think it could as work

[gilded canopy]

having the rally point on support would be awesome ngl

[tame night]

Then be able to build cover around it making it a true heavy reinforcement character

[flat sedge]

I can see that

be it could also be like barbed wire & be shared

[flat sedge]

at long range, yea sniping would be a issue, in tunnels trophy system & such could help it out

may be a good idea to make two kinds of the tripod MG, one in a standing position and one in a more crouched/prone position

So you can have it setup better based on the sitution

[still ledge]

#dev-wip message

we are so back

[gilded dock]

LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[livid carbon]

with the new balancing we aren't back at all on the mg3

and the mag looked an awful lot like a 75rnd one

can't wait for a slow af pea shooter at 900rpm

[jaunty shoal]

Nahhh we are so back. Even if its a bad gun, this is only the first of many

[livid carbon]

i know but with the new balancing i say right here and now it's going to be a far cry from an mg3

• small mag (no military uses it like that afaik)
• slower firerate than it should have
• laughable damage
• low recoil
• goofy ahhh ttk

[sweet sinew]

The perfect gun has already been made (ultimax) so it doesn't matter if they add others

Looking forward to content tho

[still ledge]

I can definetly see it and some other guns being an outsider and having above average rste while having high recoil(like the scorpion and vector)

Altough how they changed the stats of the vector it does seem like it cant be possible

Damage im ok at being low if we get a higher magazine than thw m249 and ultimax

[livid carbon]

the mag being shown in that animation is a small one though 💀

[still ledge]

Mag attachment that increases size

Or just video game logic that looks like impossible but it is possible

[still ledge]

Really want it to be The chokepoint and defensive weapon

[sweet sinew]

75 rounds is fine?

Adds a bit of difference from the 100rd box mags everything has atm

[livid carbon]

it's not, it's neither realistic nor balanced

[still ledge]

75 rounds sounds too little honestly

I was expecting 100 to 160 rounds

[sweet sinew]

It's not even in the game yet you turbonerd, how do you know what is and isn't balanced.

Very few guns in this game hit anywhere near close to realism, this is barely an issue

[livid carbon]

they def do...

[livid carbon]

high firerate + low mag capacity...

[still ledge]

Yeah just means you gonna be reloading often

With a gun that has a really slow reload speed

Not evwn something like a honey badger or vector that reloads reslly fast

[flat sedge]

this pretty much

wonder how the velocity & damage will look

so looking at the reloads

first one is roughly 6 seconds

[still ledge]

I asusme the velocity will be low since it will prob be build to close range and like 50m at max

So it doesnt become a m249 mid range focus

[flat sedge]

another seems around 9 seconds

[still ledge]

Damage honestly if it is a higher magazine than the m249 hopefuly i dont care if is low

[flat sedge]

saw another at 7 near end

the damage & such is effectively

If you have low damage, velocity and a lower end capacity at a higher end RoF

with longer reloads

it feels more painful

[still ledge]

You got a point

[flat sedge]

and a 6 to 9 second reload