Leader - Feedback

[clever scaffold]

Put your feedback on the Leader class.

Please keep it on topic, and civil, we want serious feedback

• No gifs
• No 'skill issue'
• No video's - (Testing video's in the Polygon are fine)

[slate grove]

what does this class even do?

[vale bluff]

I have nothing to talk about leader as there is nothing on leader

[vocal nebula]

Either merge Leader and Assault, or let Leader have access to all utilities.

There is 0 reason to play the Leader class. Any benefits of a Squad Leader are already applied to the player, no matter what class they choose. The Leader class itself has nothing on it.

[crimson bobcat]

This exists

[hidden gorge]

This class embodies:

"Por qué?"

If there was extra benefits like access to better supply drops or other exclusive squad based support items I'd be down for it but atm I don't see a good reason for the class to exist.

[rancid mantle]

literally just delete the class. there's no reason for it to exist now that assault has DMRs
there's a fundamental design problem with only letting squad leaders play the leader class. most people just don't want to. and if by some miracle, someone wanted to play the class; chances are they're not the squad leader, so they can't. and forcing people to play the class if they're the squad leader would be very, very not fun. the only realistic solution is to just get rid of it

[visual crater]

leader is the only class that can pair a drone with a full auto primary, so it has a niche... but a really specific and arbitrary one

[brazen swallow]

the leader should be the only role that can set a spawnpoint
give the leader rolle one small ammo pouch
give the leader a unique gadget like a mortar fire support ( also like smoke mortar ) or a high flying recon drone that spots enemys on the map

[grand axle]

Devs said that they're not adding mortars in the game (not sure about Smoke Mortars though, they didn't clarify if it's mortars in general or just the high explosive mortar)

[rancid mantle]

it already feels like less than half of squads actually put down rally points. the last thing you want to do is make it unnecessarily restrictive and only let players place them if they play a deadweight class

[grand axle]

Leader would require a significant amount of rework, or removal

[brazen swallow]

Some things like spawn beacon or the support drop should be restrictive per defintion. I don't like the idea that every player has access to tool only a squadleader should have. Give the squadleader a good amount of points for squadplay, like spawning at a beacon, refilling at a airdrop and maybe increase the points for the fulfillment of objectives.

[short aspen]

Most useless class

[cloud badger]

What leader does 💩

What leader is meant to do in this game version. Command, control, direct, and coordinate. Leader would had the ability’s to not only partly increase his squad mates EXP by completing the objectives he set, but also make Exp for the objects he sets out for the to build. Team leader can build fortification for single digit points so massive fortified buildings can be constructed. Secondly. Team leaders should be able to mark the path a team or squad should take to move on a map from his location, this route should also be displayed to the other squads so every other leader knows what routes being taken.

Finally leader should be the only class that can call in air support if and when Oki chooses to make that a thing, or call in fire from off map artillery with the correct amount of squad points. (Arty is a big wish that likely won’t happen sense they don’t understand how arty works)

Side note. I play leader when I can and I honestly see nothing good or bad with the guns it can use, you should have the option of being leader to improve your Squads experience, as well as your own.

[white mango]

Deleroko has a fantastic vision for the class. Award increased EXP & Squad Points by playing near your leader and completing objectives with them would be super rewarding for all involved.
I would ask that Del amends their request for leader being the only one able to call in resupplies/air support to giving them the ability to approve or deny their squadamate's requests.

I think that my only other wishes for changes associated with team-play are a one-per-team Commander role (ideal state), and more inter-squad information sharing like routes or at least being able to see where your team's squad leaders are on the map.

[cloud badger]

thanks for the comment. Your right. should be more of a request for fire base and not a pure team leader command only, as some teams may just consist of snipers or medics and so on without a team leader present so the ability shouldn't be lost or lock behind the class.

[marble kelp]

Give leader access to all weapons, including snipers, but make his overall kit very simple, c4, nades, smokes, grapple, weak armor options but definitely add incentive for playing one. Add a self bonus xp multiplier across the board, 1.5x or something for everything you do that's objective based.

So weaker kit with all weapons, but objective incentive.

It would help promote squad members to spawn on him/ beacons because he would be more near objectives

[white mango]

I think that S. Leaders being able to use DMRs is adequate and they do not need access to other class-specific guns (Snipers/MGs).
Their value and balance should be demonstrated in other ways, unique to the class itself.

[silent garden]

You can only be the leader if your squad leader and if your squad leader you should play support to easily build cover around a spawn beacon.

[rustic blaze]

Leader has nothing special going for it

[white mango]

I think it is wise to ensure that the bonuses to the class are best reaped while playing as a team such as mentioned in this post.

This will ensure that people don't just create an entirely new squad to be able to play as the S. Leader.

[warped magnet]

i love playing as squad leader with my friends but this class absolutely has nothing going for it

the bino soflams and air drone are useless

we're supposed to be the ones leading people into battle, so why do my unique gadgets require me to sit back? shouldn't binocularing and air droning be the job of my recon man

[warped magnet]

same argument for the dmrs you weirdly get as this class

the ONE gun category you get as this class is the one that requires you to sit back from a distance

definitely not what I'd expect from the class that's supposed to be leading your men into battle

on a side note, leader also weirdly has no customization regarding your vest and backpack

[cloud badger]

(( abandoned Class is abandoned.))

[sturdy marsh]

i think if it had interesting gadgets then it would be worth using maybe a thermal binoculars or thermal camera drone. Even just a all around buff to exp for more people in your squad (like a 1.5x if you have all 8 people) but as is now it should just be removed as it serves no purpose.

[rose moon]

My experience with leader isn't much but that's because there's just not a lot going for the class. If they had FLIR binoculars or more tools to actually control the herd of kittens, it'd be a much better play experience. I suggest letting them always be a spawn point and spawn into any occupied, friendly transport or APC on the map. That way, they can sort of control where the squad spawns by just being the spawn point that's available.

Ultimately what leader needs is both identity and tools to actually lead. Otherwise I could just be basically any other class and do the same thing. Except I'd have other tools to use too.

[sturdy marsh]

really i think that leader class should be the only one people can spawn on but leader can spawn on everyone else in squad but it would take like 10 seconds and the person couldn't be within 20m of a enemy this would help with people just constantly spawning over and over and over again on each other. but eh could be to extreme idk

or it could be the other people can instantly spawn on leader class but every other it would take 10 seconds

[rustic blaze]

Those numbers are a little extreme, but it's a good general idea.

Adding a spawn delay to spawning on all classes except for leader class would do a lot to make it special.

[rancid mantle]

it would just make the game less fun to play if no one is playing the squad leader class (and 99% of the time, no one is going to)

if you have to make the game less fun to pressure people into playing squad leader, what is the point of having the class in the first place?

[rustic blaze]

Fair point

[sturdy marsh]

the problem is its also not fun when i surprises attack and kill 3 out of 4 people to only then have all 3 or more sometimes respawn back on the one person left in like 5 or less seconds and know almost exactly where i was at because when they died the camera faces tward me it also makes trying to defend back point almost meaning less because if 1 person gets to it all 8 will be there in a short amount of time

with how it is now dying is meaning less. actually normally its way better and faster to give up and then respond on someone closer to where you were. it gives little to no use for respond radios, makes trying to take out a squad extremely hard if you don't have like 10 guys with you, and it just makes people run through the ticket count without thought

reviving should be the fastest way to get back into a battle not giving up

tbh i think there needs to be a time limit on how quickly you can give up after going down and if someone is actively reviving you it stopes you from giving up

[near venture]

i am absolutely worried about the potential upcoming 'buff' by giving squad leader air support

you make it too weak, its useless
you make it too strong, you get cod5 PTSD
you make it too cheap, you get spam
you make it too expensive, or even add it into the game in the first place, you get squad leaders being selfish and never placing down recon beacons (even more) and then it opens up "why are you placing down sandbags and wasting my killsreak points?" kick

imo
leader doesnt need to exist in the game
as a class it brings nothing to the battlefield
but as a party management system it would be better to add a squad wide vote system where anyone in the squad can request a beacon placement / airstrike and if >50% of the squad approves it places or gets called in, else it doesnt and that person gets a minor cooldown so they dont spam request it
this system could double for
X called a squad vote to kick Z from the squad Y/N?
X called to (un)lock the squad Y/N?

literally the only way to not make everyone play "but i want squad leader because i want to call in my airstrikes"
is to simply not give kills/xp for any kills it may make

[fresh jasper]

I have been using the Leader role since the playtest, and I certainly feel that it is a Role that does not need to be selected, with the only advantage currently being the ability to use a "drone" and an "assault rifle" at the same time.
Having continued to use it with this performance, I would not want to see airstrike or other prominent features added. (The saddest thing is that after being enhanced, it is weakened again.)
A few enhancements to the leader would be fine.
For example, in addition to "assault rifles" and "DMRs", they should be able to equip "Light Support Guns" and "Submachine Guns". In addition, all buildings can be handled (=Buildings that can only be handled by the Engineer Role and Support Role will also be available.) , etc.
It might also be a good idea to make the "Small Ammo Kit" available.

Anyway, I would like to see the Leader role as a position that brings Squad together, and I would like to see it adjusted to be more flexible in its performance.

Also, I am Japanese and am not good at English. If my expression is wrong, I would appreciate it if you could ask me questions about the parts you did not understand.

[frank wave]

Give them a radio gadget to talk to the whole squad. People in the squad could elect and oust the leader with a majority y/n vote. This way the leader can actually lead a squad, instead of just being the spawn beacon class.

[rancid mantle]

?

[frank wave]

But now yelling at your squad mates , proximity or not. So now you can tell people where to go

[rancid mantle]

?

could you tell me why an already existing feature should be relegated to a single person per squad?

[frank wave]

Is a non proximity squad chat already in the game

[rancid mantle]

yes

[frank wave]

we need a big sign to tell people about it, I never knew that existed. And I have never seen it used.

[vocal nebula]

All voice chats also play over proximity. It's meant to add some sort of "realism" to call-outs.

[frank wave]

This idea would be for giving orders, not call outs.

[cloud badger]

I had another touch of combined arms insperation for Team leader. Because its role is useless and seems to be suited for back line commanding of his squad. Why not make him a battle field commander and set priority objective on flags in a cool down of 2 minutes. The objectives marked are points which the team leader expects enemy's to attack thus ads a 2.0 EXP multiplyer on them for attacking or defending it till the flags taken within a small time frame. two cool downs will be in play, the length of time the enemy has been attacking the flag to reach the Full two times EXP, and the cool down of the leader marking objectives as prioritys. This applys to squad only and not the whole team so each team leader has the ability to make the flags/ objetive grant a bonus.

[modern bridge]

Make spawn beacon a gadget and give it to leader

[smoky socket]

• remove the 'enemies are close ' condition of player in combat for leader. This should allow them to be spawned at on hot objectives if they are not actively shot at or shooting, making it important for them to stay alive.
• give them the option to spawn on contested points that still belong to your team. This will allow an an well aware squad leader a chance counter blackcaps.

• another option would be to allow leaders to spawn on other leaders to allow them to get a better spawn for their squad closer to combat or objectives ( would also increase the squad cooperation I think)

Overall I think leader needs a tactical viable Passiv that makes him essential to the squad.

[fluid cliff]

Just remove the class; any passive benefits should just be given to the SL regardless of what class they are currently playing (as well as providing a more clear UI indicator that you are the current squad leader)

[vocal nebula]

No. It barely gets used enough as it is. Don't need to make it more restrictive.

[uncut cloud]

Mk14 dmr is full auto?

[uncut cloud]

Then let everyone be able to play leader but limit to one per squad

[visual crater]

Ok fair, but I’d say it’s a worse choice than an AR

[uncut cloud]

Ye it only really replaces scar h as it has a better damage profile but lower firerate

[visual crater]

Wdym by damage profile

Mk14 has a far slower time to kill than the scar

[uncut cloud]

as in the damage drop off

[sturdy marsh]

the problem is that the player is in combat condition is borked and you can normally spawn on people as long as they haven't been hit by a bullet so its already like that with everyone l

[small quail]

Role revamp:
Grant Leader access to all regular weapons plus 1 middle-ish sniper and 1 LMG
Force squad leaders to use the Leader role
Change spawn beacons into a deployable gadget used by Leaders only
Ignore spawn limitations for spawning on Leader
Lower exp gained from kills by half or more
Increase exp earned from spawns and squad orders by X3
Grant ping-options only available to Leader
Let leader pick objectives using the spawn map

This would change the roles focus from death match to leading without affecting its killing capacity

[silent birch]

Requiring squad points is another kind of restrictive. Any discussion of this has to be done in tandem with spawn system design and I personally favor doing away with squad spawns, so you will immediately see people using this far more often.

[small quail]

The addition of more weapons would make it appealing and useful, whilst the heavy drop in score from killing would dissuade people making random squads just so they can get the leader role

[rancid mantle]

forcing people to play squad leader (a deadweight class that doesn't excel at anything) will definitely go over well. God forbid people play whatever class they want to play. gorillion IQ take right there

[silent birch]

Hear me out. What if: rework Leader into Comms. Anyone can use it. Has fixed gear slot (like Medic with medkit) with spawn beacon deployable. Your beacon is globally spawnable by squad members, plus any beacon placed by any squad can be used as long as you have a Comms squad member within some range of it. Whenever someone spawns thanks to Comms (i.e. own beacon or locally-enable beacon) they get some XP.

This would go along with removing squad spawns, ofc not everyone may agree, but I'm very in favor of that, Leader changes aside. Also consider increasing squad size a bit (e.g. Planetside 2 allows up to 12 people) and I'm sure you'll find at least one guy per squad who will be happy to play such a key role.

[small quail]

Not a terrible idea, but would that replace leader? Would you be able to have multiple beacons per squad?

I think having the Comms player near their beacon to spawn would be really punitive and force them to be static in what is a very mobile game.

I think increasing squad size to 12 would be key

If you can't find 1 in 12 people willing to be a squad leader then find a new server

[silent birch]

Their beacon would be global for the squad. But they can use any other team beacon when Comms is close. Or keep all beacons global but non-squad ones take a bit longer (e.g. hold spawn for 5 seconds) and Comms being near makes it instant.

I don't think it's a problem if you have multiple beacons per squad since this would involve having multiple people play the Comms class, which isn't best suited for direct combat. It's a tradeoff they can choose to make.

[small quail]

Stop posting with your smooth-brained understanding

[silent birch]

Choosing classes to something else should of course disable the beacon you placed (not destroy it! just keep it off until you switch back)

[small quail]

Very much against that, or you're going to have whole swathes of the team appearing behind enemy lines. The only saving grace of the current system is squads can't spawn off squads

[silent birch]

Then maybe only if you died within that particular beacon's radius. I'm not advocating for any specific implementation, just something that gets spawns to be a stationary target you can hunt for instead of having to play hide and seek. But that's spawn discussion.

[small quail]

What if you don't have to be leader class as squad lead, but then no one can squad spawn

Or only spawn using the loud constructable spawn beacons

The whole thing needs a bit of a systematic change instead of treating each area individually

[white mango]

Players should WANT to play the Leader role when they have access to it.
I don’t think the class is bad, it has access to plenty of weapons and can use most gadgets. This allows players to play with their squad no matter how the squad wants to play.

The class should be given an all-upside buff in line with how the devs want players to play:
I re-suggest a small tweak: Squads should get a small multiplier in squad points & EXP for playing within some distance of their squad’s Leader.

The Leader should also get a small slice of that bonus as a kickback for their squad playing together with them.

Googie snooper is correct that players should never be forced to play into the class and players should not be incentivized to create a new 1-person squad so that they can play Leader.
This suggestion hits those points.

[small quail]

Yea that's a good shout, if it can be implemented

I think leader should be given access to the ssg and the m249, just so if a group wants to roll a focused squad, the leader can still join in

[split jungle]

SL need to be something enjoyable even in pubs
IMO the most effective way is to hand out exp

• supply drop reward squad leader with corresponding exp
• spawning at spawn beacon should also reward exp
• Get a cut of exp if squad members operate in your vicinity (similar to transport bonus)
• In reverse, give exp boost to squad members operating near squad lead (maybe just same as the additional xp SL gains)

[small quail]

They should be thick chunks of xp too, more than for getting kills

If you have a good squad, your score gain should be 70% squad 30% kills

[near venture]

i still dont understand why we need squad leader as a class

it just feels like something 'forced' into the game

[small quail]

When done well it's an amazing class and a great force multiplier, but needs to be done well

[rocky wagon]

As stated previously I think a major rework meds to be done as they literally do nothing. I think it would be cool if they could use everything. Like weapons and gadgets and armor. Maybe other then exo. I think there over all needs to be more customizations. Need more utility imo. They have one backpack and barely have any gear so maybe they can more from other classes. Just a thought.

It would be neat to be able to mix different things together and see what works.

[split jungle]

If you make the class too flexible and loses its identity people will just start creating one man squads to be the squad lead

[silent birch]

I'd like to see a poll on whether people think Leader as a class is necessary. I understand that a squad leader should have access to some distinct features, but these usually already demand some extra attention from them, so if the concern is that some other class with leader abilities on top would be too powerful, I don't really see it. They either won't fully perform as that class because they are tending to squad lead tasks or they won't perform as squad lead because they are just playing like any other soldier. In which case one might want to remove them from the lead position, but that's a separate issue.

That said, it is nice to have access to automatic weapons + drone and in general I think there could be some room for one more class that does not have a direct combat focus. And which might fit nicely with the toolset a squad lead may prefer to have, but that any other player could also enjoy using. Which essentially would be a rework of the class.

[visual crater]

Yes, I don’t think a class that isn’t specialised in any combat role is a good idea. I don’t have any suggestions for what to replace it with, but does it need a replacement at all?

Most people wouldn’t even notice if it was removed

[small quail]

Make it punitive to be a 1-man squad then, if the majority of your score (and this exp) comes from teamwork, people aren't going to run solo squads

You also lose the primary benefit of a squad which is squad spawning, I don't think any kind of class flexibility is going to outweigh having to run from home base/cap points each death.

Honestly I think it's a non-issue

[split jungle]

It is definitely an issue, you’re playing too much 127 conq

Only in 127 conq I feel compelled to “hot drop” on teammates, other modes are small enough it’s not that much hassle spawning at given spawn points

Team exp is non exist and not everyone is a fortnight player

[small quail]

I mean the issue of people making squads just for the leader class

You are the one and only player content with walking from base every time then

[rocky wagon]

Playing a solo squad literally sucks. I don’t see any benefit to it. Maybe not make it too flexible and leave some things class specific

[small quail]

I need to make infographics so points don't just get lost in waves of terrible opinions

[smoky socket]

I dont like the idea of just removing it. It also shouldn't be able to use almost everything or be just a huge XP multiplier. As Squadlead you should want to pick the Leader class because it brings a meaningfull improvement of team and squadplay. Maybe let them spawn on rally points of other squads? Maybe give members an extra mag or bandage for spawning on the leader? No matter what it should be a boost/advantage to the squad/team not something exp junkeys hog for points...

[visual crater]

Picking a totally uninteresting class being incentivised because it gives an xp boost is an awful idea

Nvm that’s what you said, didn’t read properly

[silent birch]

Reposing a comment I made in the Squad Spawning suggestions thread

I would like it if it wasn't just a "leader" class though. Usually the person who can make good calls as a leader also performs well in combat and forcing them to stick with a class that is needed for their squad to be maximally effective but gimps their combat ability is annoying. Sometimes you have someone else in the squad that might prefer to stay back a bit so it would be fine to let them take the role.

[uncut cloud]

Can we talk about how dope the squad leader helmet is

[rancid mantle]

yeah, it's a shame the most useless class gets the coolest headgear

[small quail]

Let's make them a useful class 🙂

[silent birch]

Is there a consensus on whether we actually need a leader-exclusive class tho? There's basically two questions:

• What abilities should a squad leader get that they don't currently have access to?
• Is making that a separate class that only they can choose the best way to achieve that?

[small quail]

I'd like a toolset that's only available to leaders and emphasises their role, without being available to general classes as they might be OP if you could have multiple per squad etc

[small quail]

Tying into this, I think it would be good if you could pick squads instead of being automatically assigned, you have 30 seconds before a round which is plenty of time to pick a squad and class

And would mean those who want to play the leader role actually have an opportunity

I would like to lead squads but it currently involves asking the current squad leader in voice chat, who often isn't paying attention/has voice disabled/doesn't speak English/doesn't care

Making your own squad after round start generally means no one will join

[silent birch]

Ohh you know, it would be pretty cool if you could set some preferences for squad assignment, so you could be grouped with other people who want to use voice chat or do heli drops, etc.

[small quail]

If a squad had a dedicated leader slot that might be a solution, 7/8 slots taken and it reserves the last one for someone already in the squad to take the leader role, in which case someone else can take the squadmate slot to make it 8/8

Auto-filling at the start of a round only fills 7/8 slots and you can't join a squad from the quad menu with only the leader slot left

[cunning yarrow]

The entire squad and squad leading mechanics need a lot of work as well, This class and the support should be dependant on the Squad as a whole, but there is little reason provided to play either.

Leader is just not a great class when you could be playing Medic, Assault, or Engineer instead.
And if we lock players into a squad leader class for being a leader we shoulb make leading a checkbox. Like yes I want to lead squads because having that would be better than having these random automated squads

[proud sky]

There definitely needs to be some benefit to having a leader but not so overpowered that your squad is nearly worthless without one (See Hell Let Loose)

[silent birch]

This can be true without needing specific game-impacting mechanics for it. For instance Planetside 2 leaders basically had the option to mark waypoints on maps, kick/lock squads and access leader chat. Spawn beacons were available to the entire squad. This meant that if you somehow ended up in a zombie squad, you weren't missing out on any important game mechanic but having a good leader was still nice since they would make calls about where to attack, when to pull back, etc.

[pastel hill]

really dump idea I just had but what if the squad leader had access to Grenade Launchers (like the M79) and Combi-Grenade launchers (OICW) as a primary? They would have access to non-lethal grenade rounds but this is more so every class could have some weapon category to themselves, but this might be a bit too strong matter on how Grenade launchers are balanced.

[cunning yarrow]

Let us use the Binoculars to set sub objectives! Defend the point, but hold this spot here, attack this obective but use this corridor and control it.

[uncut cloud]

The squad leader is good for the wrong reasons - bringing an ar and a drone with the most grenades of any character and 5 bandages

[pastel hill]

rethinking this, I think giving the squad leader exclusive access to underbarral grenade launchers would help give them more a frontlines role but also limited explosives spam that could be caused by underbarrals by giving it to only one man out of a squad of eight, probably not perfect but a unique aggressive gadget would be nice

[quiet mountain]

I can't help but feel like something of that sort could end up with a bunch of people creating solo squads solely for the grenade launcher. Which could in theory be also bandaid-fixed by making it so for the Leader class to be selectable, the squad should have a minimum of 3 players.

[uncut cloud]

its already underplayed why do this

[uncut cloud]

Lmao now leader has the least bandages in the game

Talk about rubbing it in the dirt

[stiff wing]

it has 5 like recon, promoting more of a spot and change the squads tactics on the fly

[uncut cloud]

but unless your gonna use the drone + a rifle u may aswell play recon or assault

before it was better than recon if u ran drone + dmr because it had more bandages

[stiff wing]

ye, but that has always been the case

[gritty mirage]

j;klasdfgjkl;dsfrgjklhnasegrftw;jklo

Give leader a megaphone

thx

[hybrid lintel]

whats the point of disabling it? was it really all that confusing? i genuinely found the soflam binocs useful because of the built in tech. disabling it feels like its an utterly pointless change to make

[vast jackal]

I mean the role was useless

[hybrid lintel]

exactly. theres nothing to gain from removing it

and i genuinely did use those soflam binocs, theyre far and away the best binocs available

[rancid mantle]

leader was pointless, it was a class that exceled at nothing, and forcing people to play him to place rally points or whatever would've been aids

i think every set of binoculars should come with a rangefinder though, like the soflams

they're such a niche item, they need all the help they can get

[gritty mirage]

Maybe leader gets half off supply drops lol

[proud sky]

Yeah it will need rework to make it useful but so few people used it as it was

[fast zealot]

Hey Battlebit Team,

First off i have been loving the game and you have created an amazing product! I can definitely tell you all have put in some serious sweat and tears to create this awesome game! I was a huge fan of the battlefield series through the third game but died off after that, and your game has seriously reignited my online gaming. With that said i'd love to see the leader class become much more versatile then the pervious very situational usage it was orientated for. I personally would love to see the leader class really reflect what I think a combat leader should be, which is true multi-tool of a team covering any missed gaps in utility of the squad. I was disappointed to see how restricted the class was in both weapons and tool availability. I saw the limit on weapons as a big hindrance due to the scope of the game you are creating. I found myself choosing other classes frequently due to the style of engagements i would find myself even, especially in more close quarter settings. I would really love to see the leader class be able to pick main weapons from all classes but especially PDW's and sub-machine guns, as I have found myself using the medic class the most specifically for those weapon options.

That leads me into the versatility of tools across classes especially for the leader. Again, I personally envision the squad leader as the multi-tool of a squad, both to allow squadmates to choose what they prefer, but also to cover the gaps when your squad all chooses sniper or something. I dont see a need to necessarily provide the squad leader all the tool options as some of them are very situational to the class (like the sniper with its fake scope light gadget) but definitely the bandage and ammo box (or potentially a reduced capability version) would hugely increase the versatility of the leader.

Lastly the squad system and how the leader role plays in that system has been a huge fail in my opinion. Not that the role itself is the problem but the lack of availability to the whole squad is the problem. I say that as before the leader role was only available to whoever created the squad, and when you are already auto creating and pushing people into a squad, you are really taking that opportunity away from players. I really see the solution to that as opening the role to the whole squad but keeping a limit on the role to a single player. That would allow people who potentially join late, or people who just want to step up and start pushing their team/squad towards a certain objective or goal to actually use those resources. I've found the squad spawning beacon to be one of the most powerful but underutilized pieces of the game and would love to see it show up more and I think to change that you need to allow more players the opportunity to use it! I've found myself creating my own squads just to use that feature but to then play an entire game either by myself or with a very small squad and that hurts the overall team because you have more squads but less squad spawning.

To summarize: the leader (in my opinion) should be equal to or even better then the individual roles at its versatility in combat. The more you limit a role to a specific usage, the less usage that role will receive depending on the ever changing environment of the battlefield. If you want to see players use it more, give them both the opportunity (changing who is even available to use it) and reasons to play the role (giving them more weapons and tools to solve problems). Again thank you for creating this game and being so interactive with your community to create such an amazing environment!

P.S. Maybe add more squad leader point usages? the ability to put down a vehicle repair station would be tiiiiight!

[silent birch]

Keeping a "leader" role exactly under that denomination and making it distinct from the squad owner would be confusing I think.

[silent birch]

On the other hand, the idea of having a class oriented towards teamwork that any squad member can use is a good one, I made one such proposal some time ago in case you're interested: #1138399228390027305 message

[fast zealot]

This is a good comprise to keeping a 5th class and keeping it orientated towards team support!

[sturdy marsh]

if leader is readded they could make it where if your near teammates you get extra game points and xp kinda like transport bonuses and when a teammate does any action that gives game points or xp they get like 0.5 times more

or could give leader its own buildable that could resupply armor and ammo that if they switch out of class would despawn

or possibly even a buildable like then ones in squad where is like a pillbox that is harder to build but also harder to destroy where people can spawn on that's active as long as there is a squad lead in squad

[limpid gyro]

Give leader special markers they can add with the soflam that is only visable to the squad. Also let them place markers on the map visible to all squad leaders to show where they are planning to go or to mark enemy locations. Allow the soflam to allow missile guidance (if you add smart missile systems) or add an airstrike option which needs the soflam to designate for the duration of the strike to commence. have the leader role able to provide a 10% bonus reload speed and equipment swap speed when in 25m of their squamates who also receive this bonus. make large buildables or high point cost supplies only available when on the class.

[buoyant oriole]

Be great to have a nomination option or at least a kick feature for squad leads who don't do anything. Often I get stuck spawning in base because the squad gets wiped out without a beacon anywhere. And yet there are 3000+ points in the bank at the end of the game. The fact that squad leads get chosen randomly could be helped by giving the rest of the team some input. For instance, if the squad lead is off playing recon and not participating in teamwork or placing beacons, it would be great to bump a more involved member up into the squad lead spot. Say 3 votes from other team members automatically change the SL. So somebody who wants the job could at least say "vote for me and I'll put down a beacon". Squad lead should also get points for any spawns on a beacon for incentive to participate more.

[silent birch]

Rest in peace sweet prince

[spare summit]

they are not dead, simply on a mission

[livid echo]

squad leader class gives:
access to specialized buildings
[] fob flag, reduces cost of building NORMAL fortifications to zero in its area
[] Spawn beacon, you know what this is.
[] Supply Box, airdrop with some extra medications and bandages, useful for sustaining a base

special binos
[] Advanced Binoculars have variable zoom and toggleable thermal/NV modes.
[] Spotter Binoculars have the ability to mark targets instead of pinging. marked target pings when aimed at will have the rangefinder number pop up in the corner of your screen as if you had a rangefinder equipped. marked vehicle targets will also be marked for three times as long.

potentially also copy out of bf2042
call civilian humvee and atv airdrops?

[livid echo]

tempted to suggest like
3d spotting or something
or being able to lase for artillery fire
idk
the problem is theres very little we can do for offensive abilities

[spare summit]

well artillery/airstrike were said to be his offensive

but offense wise, artillery barrage of HE,Smoke, airburst and so on comes to mind

for funnies could do a APHE barrage (Less damage than HE but better vs any vehicles in the area)

air strike wise I suppose a A10 gun run,a light bombing run & etc works

[livid echo]

Actually, a thought:
to give smoke some use:
SADARM strike
A short salvo of SADARM antivehicle shells. The enemy is warned if they are in the area, and can deploy smoke to hide from it. However, they must remain inside the smoke area to not be hit, making them easier targets for other vehicles or engineers.

They do not target enemy players, so its much easier to balance

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SADARM

[spare summit]

interesting

[livid echo]

Strike Weapons:
Mortar
[] Fast arrival time and middling salvo count.
Air
[] Small volleys, middling arrival time, tiny salvos.

Strike Types:
HE-FRAG Mortar
[] Low damage. A direct or near direct impact kills, but damage remains fairly poor. Best used to soften defenses and wound enemies. A notification is displayed if you are in the area.
[] Small salvo of four shots with about 180 sec cooldown. Random spread, with one guaranteed to hit near your target point.
SMK Mortar
[] No damage. Useful for saturating an area in a smoke cloud for blocking enemy overwatch.
[] Five shells fired in a pattern chosen by the Leader. About 90 sec cooldown.
PGM Mortar
[] Single shell, laser guided. Requires continuous illumination (maybe SL only binos or a laser pointer given upon deployment?), but gives no warning other than approaching whistle sound. Useful for defeating single fortified positions or damaging armored vehicles.
[] Highly precise strike with shortest cooldown but high cost. Maybe 60-90 sec?

SADARM Air
[] Smart attack cluster munition that engages and destroys vehicles. Once deployed, they fall to attack height and begin acquiring. After a few seconds they explode and deal 15-25 damage to even heavy armor, as they are top attack. Has no splash damage. Can be interrupted by vehicle smoke or moving under a roof.
[] Cannot acquire personnel targets. Can kill personnel if they are directly in the line of the shaped charge's path. Significant cooldown, slightly shorter than HE-FRAG and no more than fifteen bomblets.
Bomber Air
[] Antistructure/personnel strike, launching a large number of impact HE bombs. Deals great damage to structures and can collapse buildings with a few hits, but unreliable killer.
[] Pattern of attack chosen by user; shotgun spread or bomb run. Very long cooldown, expect few uses of these per game.
Buster Air
[] Linear armor piercing bomb. Penetrates through structures to deliver explosion inside of even bunkers. Also effective against stationary tanks.
[] Single smart weapon strike, that is difficult to use. The depth of the explosion is determined by the Leader, but it is able to go right through terrain. Will trigger a building collapse if used right. Single use, no cooldown.

[livid echo]

So, here's some defensive options.

Forward Radar System
a tactical radar that's airdropped. When active it shows up on the map as a red icon, but it spots for area air defense missiles and artillery that can shoot down incoming Missile, Artillery and Air Strikes.

Basically a spotter for MIM-104D or S-400 or YAL-1, etc.

AAA Machine Gun
a point defense option against Strikes with limited regenerating ammo. It can be overwhelmed, but it doesn't show up on the map and it's cheaper.
Can also be used against helicopters, but helicopters get a warning that they're being targeted by enemy air defense RADAR and a marker indicating where the gun is far before they enter attack range.
Also has very visible streams of tracers and a loud horncall as it fires.
Substantially shorter range.

Landbased CIWS gun turret, basically.

[magic fjord]

I love all of these except the cluster munitions

[livid echo]

Yeah that's fair. It smacks more of an assault stopper than something useful for defeating fortifications.

[magic fjord]

Also, the smk mortar should give the concussed effect like the helicopter crash on direct hit imo. I just think it would be funny.

[livid echo]

Wdym the concussed effect?

[livid echo]

Additional
Cooldown is shared across the entire category. Calling a Mortar strike means all mortar strikes are put on the used Strike's cooldown, eg call HE FRAG with a cooldown of X, now must wait X sec before a smoke strike or PGM strike.
Cooldowns are also issued on a PER SQUAD basis and a PER PERSON basis. You cannot avoid the cooldown by changing squad leaders very fast or making a new squad, getting enough points, firing, leaving, and repeating.

Missile
[] Huge effect, but niche application. Unlimited range, but the missile is vulnerable to interception by air defenses the entire way, and a warning is always given. High cost, high cooldown.

[magic fjord]

152mm howitzer:

• 2 high power shells per salvo
• High squad point cost.
• Fast arrival time after firing but takes several seconds before firing.
  Strike types
  Fragmentation: Large effective radius against infantry but won't do much to buildings or vehicles.
  HE: Medium effective radius against infantry, good against buildings
  Smoke: Does smoke things
  Semi-laser guided: can't aim as much as the mortar. Noticeabley weaker than the base HE version. Only 1 shell

[magic fjord]

Like you crash in a helicopter from the tail being shot

[livid echo]

HE Missile:
[] Antistructure weapon, primarily. Will collapse buildings, maybe more than one if the impact is right.
[] User gives target position and from where on the map border it comes in.
Cruise Missile:
[] HE Missile with greater cost capable of following a complicated path to impact.
[] Same target method. User can set a few waypoints to let it avoid air defenses zones, but it still can get shot down.

[magic fjord]

Missile should be pinpoint accurate too

[livid echo]

I actually thought about traditional gun artillery
I realized there wasn't a decent way to balance it in the end, so I scrapped it.

[magic fjord]

How so?

[livid echo]

Either it's like mortar but more oppressive, even if the cost and cooldown is greater, or it's just a weird airstrike.
"realistic" gun salvos would be absurdly oppressive, I think.

[magic fjord]

A couple shells wouldn't be that oppressive

[livid echo]

Yes but now mortar exists alongside it. So now you have more spam.

And it's very similar to mortar's niche too.

[magic fjord]

I don't think that a mortar could break a severe stalemate on Wakistan C point

Even with multiple squads

[livid echo]

Honestly one or two squads firing decently placed HE-FRAG could probably vaporize the current defenses ingame
Mortar is very oppressive, it's like playtest RPGs in an instant burst, only much less vehicle damage.

And if you're a single squad, you can call Bomber Air if there's no AA defenses, and obliterate an entire building or something.

[turbid forge]

I think if leaders get added back in a nice feature could be that they can spawn on any squads spawn beacon, like how they can speak to any squads leaders

[magic fjord]

Leader should have 1 or 2 more extra bandages and a small bonus to revive speed to squad members

[spare summit]

well they did have bonus bandages & such prior to bandage capacity increase

[dusky vale]

Rather than Leader making a comeback in some way, I'd like for a Team Leader role to be made available alongside the current Squad Leader.

Something that people who seek to COORDINATE would be into. A role for the more "war tactician" kind of players.

They'd have access to map-based gadgets and have a MUCH longer-ranged recon drone.

The map gadgets could be a smoke drop in a line, an improved (faster to interact/more points?) Supply Drop that falls quickly to the ground and maybe even vehicle drops if possible!

The Extra-Range Recon Drone would be to help see the battlefield from a safer POV, to coordinate SLs together, and keep a pulse on enemy flanks or potential attack opportunities.

The most important thing - IMO - would be to give them a "Team Leader Attack Order" that goes above and beyond SL Attack Orders. It would give additional points to SLs who have their squad members follow their AO if it's synced with the TL's.

This would lead to improved team cohesion and much easier coordination, even if the TL is a brand new player who just slaps an AO on a random point! It would still lead to SLs being encouraged to put their order there, which then gives their squad members incentives to group up and follow the order to get more EXP / better scores / better chances of winning.

As it stands, the game has little to no systems in place to give players a reason to group up besides "haha funny waki bridge boombooms" and such.

I firmly believe that adding a Commander / Team Leader role -- which of course can be vote-kicked in case of troll/unacceptable behaviour -- could drastically improve team cohesion, even with the limited toolset I've described. Just the TL AO could be a massive game-changer when it comes to teamwork.

Feel free to @ me with your ideas / comments about this, this is something I'm SUPER passionate about, as a fervent lover of BF's CMDR role. 💜

Keep it steady out there! 🫡 💜

[buoyant oriole]

@dusky vale What would the benefits of having team leader AND squad leader be? Seems kind of redundant if you could just make the squad leader more useful with your suggestions. (I like the idea of giving extra goodies to the squad leader, regardless of class.) We have an update coming so that squad leader requests can be made and, if ignored, the requester becomes the squad leader. This is great for getting around people who just ignore the role. This kind of feels like bringing back the pointless squad leader class - albeit with more of an identity. So why two? 🤔

[dusky vale]

The idea is for CMDR/TL to be above SLs in terms of leadership.

Think of it like a pyramid, with the TL at the top that gives orders to the SLs, and the SLs give orders to their squad.

The TL's attack order would make the highlighted obj bigger than SL AOs, to bring attention to it, to tell the team "HEY, GO HERE FOR HUGE EXP!". Even better if SL AOs stack on top.

The point is to have a singular, centralized team focus, to avoid having 20+ leaders who have different ideas, plans and tactics completely spreading out the team across the map, drastically lowering it's cohesion and impact.

If you have one person who's orders stand out, it'll help the other 126 focus. It should naturally drive people to follow the biggest order, instead of the scattered squad AOs that might sometime get ignored, or worse - they get listened to when the team's going elsewhere, fracturing the push and spreading people out needlessly.

With 20+ squad leaders, there's too many cooks in the leadership kitchen. I've RARELY seen games past the initial push stay coordinated and focused. It devolves into lemming-like "go there because there's enemy marks!" "go there because my SL told me so!" "go the other way because I think they'll back-cap an OBJ!" and the team goes from a coordinated push to the mid objectives... into a formless blob, an uncoordinated mess.

I'd like it if the TL could assign specific squads to specific tasks using their map while out on the field.

The flow I have in mind is this;

• As TL, open your map and click an OBJ
• a menu with squad letters pops up, you click to select squads in the list (or could click-and-drag to select multiple)
• you then get to choose between attack / defend / move to
• It sends the order to each squad, but as a "Hey, Big Boss McTeamleader is asking your squad to do this!"

Individual squads would still be free to ignore the TL order / be insubordinate, BUT if the SL approves the TL's order by middle-clicking it, your squad gets extra points if they successfully follow the order.

I don't know the normal numbers since the EXP gains have been drastically increased last time I played, but let's say SL orders give you 1000 EXP for following them, TL orders would give you 2000 ON TOP of the SL's 1000.

That way your "main objective" rewards you BIGLY, and your squad leader's "secondary objective" still rewards you for listening and coordinating.. just, less than what the Big Boss McTeamleader would give you.

Maybe moving in more of a #1170727258537865367 kind of idea than feedback for Leader... but as far as I can see... Leader doesn't exist, it's just a passive built-in toolkit that lets you choose other classes, while giving you the rally point and support drop options, as well as middle-clicking OBJs.

It's fine in it's current state, mind you! I wouldn't modify it! I'd just add a TL on top to add even more teamwork.

[dusky vale]

Also, sincere apologies for these MASSIVE walls of text.. I get.. passionate 😅 and forget that most people write a lot less, don't mind me! suggest along, don't let me monopolize the channel! 😆

[buoyant oriole]

It's interesting when someone has a fully formed opinion. 👍

How would this battle general be selected to avoid the current problem of squad leaders who don't engage (but on a much bigger scale)?

[dusky vale]

Maybe... Top Squad's Squad Leader gets promoted to TL? 🤔 Or at least offered the option?

Otherwise... maybe just like a role, but only one person can pick it on the team?

Little pop-up similar to the community guidelines whenever the class is picked, warning not to be a dickhead, and let the team votekick a bad TL out.

Pop-up could also tell a newbie clicking on it "Hey this role is a bit more advanced than you might think, are you SURE you want to go right into the deep end? Here's your job when picking this TL class thing!" and lists what a decent TL should do.