Glock 18 - Feedback

[inland sundial]

Put your feedback on the Glock 18.

Please keep it on topic, and civil, we want serious feedback

• No gifs
• No 'skill issue'
• No video's - (Testing video's in the Polygon are fine)

[median imp]

In my opinion it beats the other rapid fire pistols mainly by virtue of being full auto, as most people cannot time their clicks perfectly to make full use of the fire rate of the tap firing pistols.

[stiff wasp]

i think this gun is good as it is especially for people who cant click fast

[quartz sage]

Needs its 32 round drum mag.

[stiff wasp]

this gun needs a gangster style hold

[cinder oracle]

Really impressed by its balance. Great for spraying down a single target but that’s about all you’ll get from it. Wouldn’t change a thing

[ancient agate]

I think it's perfect in its current iteration. The old reliable someone is running to kill me while I'm sniping pull the glock out and hope I don't miss too much!

[lapis nimbus]

I love this gun. It has entirely to little recoil for what it is.

[pale lotus]

would be interesting if the devs add a pistol stock to this gun

[swift lagoon]

Perfect sidearm. Wouldn't change a thing.

[muted sapphire]

i think that it should start out with the larger mag and you should make the smaller mag a quick reload or make it take way less kills because with how secondary weopons are it a bit hard to get reliable kills with them and giving really in my opinion the most important part of this gun to work is the larger mag

also maybe just a small buff to damage maybe to 19

[hollow zinc]

glock feels really good, any buff would turn it into a total powerhouse imho

[stiff wasp]

its not a buff more of a tweaking tho i think the required kills for the extended mags should be lowered to 100 atleast

[muted sapphire]

not really you gotta be like 2 inches from someone to kill them and really at that point its because you both ran out of ammo and your both using pistols

its a really good pistol ya but as a gun over all not really

all the pistols are not worth switching to unless your using a really really slow reloading primary weopons because most primaries its better to just try and fast reload

[median imp]

A pistol takes one second to switch to, 0.75 if you’re playing assault. Even with the fastest reloading guns in the game with mag drop it’s going to be slower to the point where it’s not worth it

[hollow zinc]

Phew it's a good thing you can't carry the Glock with another gun then

[muted sapphire]

oh good thing that most guns kill faster then 0.75 seconds. Even if you get it pulled out they will most likely be to far away for a pistol to be useful or have, still have a mostly fully loaded primary or have ran away from you to cover and have reloaded in the 3 or 4 seconds it takes to reach them. as said it is really only to useful to swap to pistol if both people are 2 inches from each other which is extremely rare.

[median imp]

Not sure what that has to do with it, but if you’re at long range then of course you wouldn’t use a pistol. But fights are often CQC

Fights within pistol ranges are not rare at all, I’d say they’re the most common type of fight. Granted, you usually don’t have time to expend the whole mag in that time, but there are often multiple people involved.

[stiff wasp]

define far away? like how many meters? i think your having wrong perception of distance in this game

[muted sapphire]

pistols are practically useless past like 15m

most fights i have happen at like 20m to 30m

[stiff wasp]

you know 20m is still very close right?

2nd one is 31m

[hollow zinc]

Ive been running the glock + svd as assault, its serviceable out farther than you'd expect, the only thing stopping it from being a reasonable smg level primary is lack of mags

[stiff wasp]

and pistol damage drop off starts on 50m like any other smgs

beside vector ofc

[dreamy ginkgo]

Gun is perfect as is, one of best pistols. Used it exclusively for my first prestige.

Extended mag shouldn't have movement penalty(not sure if the fix gave it one)

[ripe patio]

it did. -0.16 running speed

pretty fucking awful

[hollow zinc]

you really need extended mag if you're ripping through multiple people, and if you are, what are you doing with that pistol lol

[dreamy ginkgo]

in that case this should be reverted; in the case of glock the extended mag should incur no movement penalty

[warm nymph]

carbine kit would be nice

[still hemlock]

this gun epitomises the devs lack of clear direction. it is basically a primary in your secondary slot, whereas other sidearms are barely serviceable as a "shit hit the fan last option"

[median imp]

Eh. The only primary it can match in how quickly it kills is the aug

But I would agree it’s a good sidearm

Most of the tap fire ones need buffing

[noble sparrow]

50 rnd would be cooler

[hollow zinc]

why have limited ammo at all

[gilded moss]

belt fed machine pistol

[ripe patio]

honestly, the glock is way too overtuned as far as secondaries go. it requires very little skill compared to any other sidearm

and frankly? it is just not fun to sneak up on a sniper, or rush someone down that you know is out of ammo for their primary, only to be met with a sidearm that has a higher TTK than some primaries

technically the MP443 is stronger, but you need to be a godlike masher to actually get the MP443 to its maximum firerate. glock takes no thought or skill whatsoever

[noble sparrow]

Nah, the glock is good as it is. The limited ammo balances it out because it spits it out at such an absurd rate.

[ripe patio]

no, it really, really doesn't

ammo doesn't matter when it comes to sidearms, because you're not using them most of the time

it's enough to kill 1 or 2 people with a single burst and that's more than enough

[median imp]

Is clicking fast really a skill?

Because if not that statement doesn’t make much sense

[ripe patio]

uh, yeah?

[median imp]

For everything but the MP443 you need like 6-7cps to max out everything

[ripe patio]

being able to click at 750 rpm is anything but easy, unless you're using a macro

[median imp]

Which almost anyone can do without practising

[median imp]

Yeah that’s an MP443 issue not a glock issue

[ripe patio]

it's really not

if you catch someone off guard with their sidearm, whether it's a MP443, the odds are in your favor

but the glock quite literally has a TTK faster than some primaries

[median imp]

USP and MP443 both have quicker ttk than the glock, generally speaking ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Killing faster than guns like the AUG isn’t saying much

[ripe patio]

they realistically don't

you're not clicking at 750 or 650 rpm in a firefight

[median imp]

Some people probably are

[ripe patio]

and good for them, shit isn't easy. the average CPS is 6-8, and for the MP443 to reach its max theoretical firerate you'd need 12.5

no such requirement for the glock. it is a braindead weapon, and a "get out of jail free" card for when you're caught without any ammo for your primary

it pretty blatantly overshadows any other sidearm. (realistically) highest TTK, no speed penalty, and it's full auto

i'd like to see it given the speed penalty of RSH and deagle if nothing else. maybe up the recoil; make it difficult to use like the scorpion, so it being so rewarding makes sense

[median imp]

I don’t think that’s an issue personally

It’s as “braindead” as any other full auto weapon

It does have a lot more recoil than the USP/MP443 already, but this isn’t majorly important as they’re usually used within like 10m

[ripe patio]

which are primaries. primaries are kinda supposed to be stronger than secondaries

as far as secondaries go, the glock is in a league of its own. there's little reason to use anything else unless you wanna fish for 1 taps with the RSH or deagle

[median imp]

And they are

Almost all primaries kill faster than the glock, and every single one of them has a much better mag capacity

[ripe patio]

you're annoying. you're skirting around the issue and refusing to compare the glock to its contemporaries (unless you can cherrypick wildly unrealistic TTKs for the MP443 and USP)

[median imp]

You quite literally were the one to compare them to primaries. I just responded to that

[ripe patio]

because the TTK is, in fact, comparable to most primaries, if not faster

"but muh mag size"

i already went over it. doesn't really matter for sidearms because you'll primarily be using them for one person, maybe two

[median imp]

That is false

[ripe patio]

AK74 is 0.269
glock is 0.273
ultimax is 0.300

stop arguing in bad faith

[median imp]

There are 8 primaries that kill more slowly than it and 25 faster

Against intact opponents at least

[ripe patio]

okay?

so it's comparable to most primaries

which is exactly what ive said

it is only 0.04 slower than AK74

[median imp]

About 34ms if your opponents are undamaged

And assuming no long barrel

[ripe patio]

AK74's TTK doesn't change with the long barrel

[median imp]

Almost every gun does

Are you assuming pure unarmored bodyshots or something

[ripe patio]

it only makes it better at dealing with armor, but it does not reduce the base TTK

[median imp]

When I say TTK I usually refer to a general case

[ripe patio]

a general case is unarmored

[median imp]

(Well, a weighted average of possible cases)

[ripe patio]

armor simply doesn't cover up enough of your character to come into play most of the time. not for exo armor, and certainly not for medium armor

but i digress

[median imp]

Unarmoured pure bodyshots on 100hp opponents does happen but it certainly doesn’t have a great deal of importance

[ripe patio]

this isn't about the AK74, this is about the glock being in a league of its own, and pretty much objectively better than any other alternatives

[median imp]

I know Unica was very popular but it’s hard to say how viable that is in comparison

As it is not used in the same way

[ripe patio]

unica is pretty well balanced id say

modest TTK, and if you miss even one shot then your odds of winning any engagement go down drastically

[median imp]

As I said previously I don’t think it’s an issue if two guns that would universally beat the glock only do so for those that are able to click fast enough, that seems to be part of the balance

[ripe patio]

again

it's unrealistic to ever reach the max firerate of ever the MP443 or USP

we're talking double the human average

[median imp]

What about the gamer average

Some people will click extremely fast

If people want to click faster there are a bunch of things they can do

[ripe patio]

the game should not be in any case balanced around macros

and the CPS world record is 14 22, so you're asking for just short of that

[median imp]

I wasn’t referring to macros, I think those are bannable

[ripe patio]

asking for any more than 8-9 CPS is very, very unrealistic, especially in a firefight, since you also have to aim

[median imp]

Google seems to think it’s more like 22

Can get insane cps with drag clicking and stuff

[ripe patio]

you're free to do a CPS test yourself and see if you can ever get 10 or higher

[median imp]

I can’t

[ripe patio]

yeah, you can't

8-9 is already optimistic in a firefight

im a broken record at this point, but to sum it up, the glock is in a league of its own in regards to sidearms. it has a TTK comparable to most primaries, it doesn't slow you down, and the recoil is extremely manageable. the mag size is a non-issue, since secondaries rarely see use and typically you only need to kill one or two enemies if you're forced to pull them out. the only reason anyone would ever use anything else is because they want variety, or they want to try their luck at 1 taps with the deagle/RSH

[devout oxide]

case in point, you should not be able to do this

i was caught out of position as a recon player, but i get to just beam the dude for free

[mellow lily]

This was a perfectly balanced weapon before the buffs. Nvm I think it was overtuned even before the secondary buffs.

Glock didn't need the extra damage nor the bigger mag. Revert those changes and we still have one of the best secondaries in the game.

Weapon swap speed buff was fine btw just to clarify.

[mellow lily]

Here's my rework idea.

Glock 18

• Lower Damage from 19 to 18. <- [I really like this cause 18 lol]
• Lower Mag Capacity from 19 to 16.
• Increase Vertical recoil from 1.00 to 1.20.
• Lower Velocity from 330 to 275.
• Lower Accuracy from 73.75 to 71.50.
• Increase Sound Spread from 450 to 500.
• Increase Muzzle Flash Scale from 0.18 to 0.32.
• Slow Reload Speed from 3.03 to 3.23.

This looks like an absolute assassination but I really think this gun is that good. Glock is a straight upgrade over all the standard pistols imo, and these nerfs were aimed to pull it closer in line.

References:

• Standard Pistol accuracy is 73.75.
• Standard Muzzle Flash Scale for ARs is 0.50.
• Standard Sound Spread is 600.
• Slowest pistol reload, USP, is 3.23.
• Fastest pistol reload, MP 443, is 2.79 <- [Deagle is fastest Secondary reload for some reason, reload is 2.77]

[median imp]

Why though?

Pistols are supposed to be usable as weapons

[devout oxide]

"usable" is disingenious. glock isn't just usable, it is blatantly overtuned

[median imp]

If pistols including the glock couldn’t kill a single person at fairly close range with a whole mag they’d be pretty much useless

[gilded moss]

Hell, even with this nerf it still kills with 6 bullets, it's just slightly worse against armor.

[gilded moss]

18*18 = 324 >> 100

[median imp]

In your demonstrative video, it took the whole mag

Theoretical KPMs are always quite a bit higher than what we will get in practise

Nvm, was the other guy who posted the video

Against undamaged foes the glock has a theoretical KPM of about 2.72.

Compared to the faster firing semi auto pistols which have 3.03, 3.32 and 3.4

And with ARs having an average of 6.54

[gilded moss]

The mp443 is probably the only other pistol that could've done the thing in that video and that would've required really fast clicking speed

[gilded moss]

The glock's kpm is bad because it's purpose is to eliminate one person and then give you time to reload your primary.

[median imp]

All of them could, fairly easily in the specific case of that video

[median imp]

That’s pretty much the purpose of all of them

[gilded moss]

But not with you missing your first ~7 shots

[median imp]

In the same time frame a slower fire rate gun will miss less shots. That is an irrelevant consideration

[gilded moss]

Ok, fine, but the accuracy and vertical recoil changes are justified. It should be a close range get out of jail free card, not a medium-short range one unless you are good with recoil control and have it on center.

[devout oxide]

please either stop arguing in bad faith or don't argue at all

we've been over this. KPM and kills per mag don't matter when it comes to sidearms

you only need them for 1 person usually, 2 at most. pistols can be usable without being unbalanced, and you're being either disingenous or willfully ignorant

[gilded moss]

If you want more than 2 kpm with a pistol then use the unica or mp443

[median imp]

I think they matter quite a bit when they’re so limited

In your clip if you’d missed 1-2 more shots you wouldn’t have been able to kill them with a whole mag dump

[devout oxide]

because i was shooting at him outside of optimal pistol range, and missed most of my initial shots and had to correct my crosshair placement

[median imp]

I have gotten chains of ~4 kills with pistols before quite a few times

[devout oxide]

i should not have been able to kill him, but the glock is a braindead gun with no recoil and a stupid TTK

[median imp]

I think you should have, I don’t think they even hit you

[devout oxide]

i wouldn't be surprised if he got aimpunched, since the shots barely scraped by me

[median imp]

The glock might just be the weapon least able to deal aim punch in the game

[primal wadi]

Too me again this one confuses me in the same way the M200 confused me its just the best side arm in the game it has the fastest TTK for boddy shots out of all the side arms and im confused how this is allowed its just the pocket kriss vector witch "was" ( i say it that way because i still find the Kriss vector too strong but again that may be just me.) the best smg nay the best full auto weapon in the game. so effectively having two of them seems a bit game breaking too me.

[gilded moss]

Kv is pain to use to me

[waxen iris]

Just increase recoil
Rn its literally a beam

[devout oxide]

yeah, it needs either a recoil increase or a movement speed nerf, or both

[waxen iris]

Why ms, its literally plastic
Recoil is enough

[stiff wasp]

doesnt matter what it is made out of irl if its just for balancing i mean ms speed reduction kinda make sense a bit

[waxen iris]

Doesnt make sense
I like glock and the fact its full auto
Dont wanna click 50 times a second to kill smb and dont wannna sweat every shot with heavy pistols
Nerf recoil so it does not perform at range and leave everything else alone

[median imp]

It does not perform at range

Mediocre recoil and damage dropoff starting at 10m and ending at like 50 make it awful outside of CQC, like the other pistols

[devout oxide]

#1138397543219343380 message

you're not doing this with any other pistol lol

recoil my fucking ass

[gilded moss]

I mean, if you are a god at recoil control then you could do it with the unica and if you can click fast then you could do it with the mp443, but those are skills, the issue with the glock is that it doesn't require skill.

[devout oxide]

exactly

[median imp]

Nobody is claiming another pistol is OP

so why would I?

[median imp]

why is that an issue? having a pistol that's easier to use for newer players

there are always easier and harder guns in the game

[devout oxide]

nice reading comprehension

[devout oxide]

guess we shouldn't have nerfed the kriss and UMP because having easier to use guns is good, right

[median imp]

the first time I clicked on your thing it took me to another message

but in response to what it actually led to, yeah you are?

emptying a full mag from any pistol at close range should kill someone

that is not hard to do at all

[median imp]

The vector was considered easy to use because it was a bit OP
In this case it's because it's harder to get the full potential of the others.

[devout oxide]

read as: humanly impossible

[median imp]

It's humanly very difficult on some of them, if no alternate clicking techniques are employed

[devout oxide]

no one is clicking 12.5 times per second to get the max DPS of the MP443 and you're full of shit if you claim otherwise

[median imp]

I would assume a lot of people care enough about the game to do that but I don't know

and the MP443 is the most extreme example

[devout oxide]

maybe you should stop assuming and start thinking

in that clip i beamed a guy with the glock at 40 meters out. for reference, a MP443 requires 5 shots at that range, and you need to not miss, and you need to click inhumanly fast

the glock isn't just stupid easy to use, it's also blatantly overpowered compared to every other pistol

there's a world of difference between a gun that's easy to use and a gun that's blatantly unbalanced, and you're being disingenous by conflating the two

if a gun is easy to use, it needs to have downsides. the kriss was given unforgiving damage fall off to make it worse at range. the glock has TTK comparable to most primaries, doesn't require you to click fast, doesn't require you to control recoil, doesn't have a movement speed penalty, and has more than enough ammo to comfortably kill people in CQC

[median imp]

personally, at that range I get about 1.25 kills per mag with the glock and about 2 with the MP443 against a stationary target, with glock killing a bit faster. Since an actual target would be moving I probably would not get the kill with glock but likely would with mp443, which seems fair to me

[devout oxide]

i love cherrypicking scenarios while disregarding anything that doesn't fit my argument

[median imp]

I tested the scenario you said

[devout oxide]

and how fast do you kill the person

[median imp]

glock has more recoil than the faster firing pistols though

[devout oxide]

you only talked about "kills per mag" which is a hilariously irrelevant aspect of a sidearm

because again, you have to grasp at straws to make the glock look even remotely bad

[median imp]

Very relevant I think, though I haven't timed them properly

if an entire mag does not kill the enemy then ttk doesn't even matter

if you are talking about using pistols outside of being right in their face then it is pretty critical I think

[devout oxide]

guess what, the glock is better than any other non-heavy pistol either in CQC and further out

you say "i probably would not get the kill with glock but likely would with mp443" as if you don't have to correct your aim to compensate for enemy movement with the non-automatic pistols

you're actually fucked in the head my dude

[median imp]

depends on the scenario and the player ability

[median imp]

I don't really know what you mean by this

you have to correct recoil regardless of how often you are clicking

[devout oxide]

how are you actually capable of forgetting what you said 4 minutes ago

you were talking about an enemy moving, not recoil

[median imp]

I don't understand what you are getting at with that either. Recoil is important in any scenario outside of very close range

An enemy moving was to say I would do worse against moving targets than stationary ones.

[devout oxide]

you really don't have an actual argument against the glock being unbalanced. you have to pull out humanly impossible statistics and imaginary scenarios because, if im forced to guess, you like abusing the weapon. and hey, i like abusing it too! but i think the game would be better overall if the guns were actually balanced

[median imp]

I think I made the argument before. It is worse than the other pistols at their full potential but better than them for the average player.
I personally don't use the glock, I prefer the slow fire rate pistols

[devout oxide]

and again you completely forget to mention that the "full potential" is physically impossible

because that's the only way you can feel like you're in the right

you can't actually compare their realistic performances because you know it's a losing battle. you have to compare fringe, irrelevant statistics like "kill per mag", as if you ever need to kill more than 1 or 2 people with a sidearm

[median imp]

No it isn't

it is very much possible

[devout oxide]

okay, prove it

[median imp]

how?

[devout oxide]

by using the MP443 with 12.5 CPS, or finding someone that can do it

[median imp]

that's one of the most important stats for gun balance in general

[devout oxide]

no it's fucking not, not for a sidearm

stop posting

i beg you

uninstall discord from your computer

[median imp]

idk how to do that

[median imp]

why?? have you never been in a scenario where you've run out of bullets in a sidearm before? because they don't have a lot in them and you often need to kill many people.

[devout oxide]

if you need to kill many people then you use your primary

the sidearm is for when you're out of ammo for your primary and don't have time for reload, or you're a sniper being snuck upon

[median imp]

the entire point is you run out of bullets in your primary then switch to secondary

[devout oxide]

i can't believe im actually forced to explain this to you again

[median imp]

well... I have a friend who I know can do it quite easily, I'm not sure what you want from me on that though. They do happen to be banned in game but they're in this server

[devout oxide]

wow, i sure do wonder why they're banned in game

could it be because they were using a macro

[median imp]

I think something sus on their PC, when they were younger they got a lot of malware from trying to be a cool hacker person

[devout oxide]

i believe you, you've never been disingenous or argued in bad faith in the past

[median imp]

nah, they have done a lot of mc pvp though

[waxen iris]

dmg drop off for glock starts at 25 and ends at 100
it has no recoil atm

[median imp]

recoil is pretty average

the deagle and RSH have more I'm pretty sure

but the other pistols actually have very little

the current metric I use to estimate recoil puts the glock at 12.3.
MP443 is at 4.5 and AK74 is at 11.1 for reference, with FAL at 25.2

so recoil isn't that high but not low. you just would only notice if you engaged past CQC

[devout oxide]

what the fuck do you mean buff, are you out of your mind

IT ALREADY HAS AN EXTENDED MAG!!!

[golden mirage]

True enough I just jumped back on to retest as I realized I haven't touched it after the recoil changes as the deagle and rsh are just more my style. and your right its much more consistent than it was.

[leaden nacelle]

Honestly the deagle unica and even the rsh have gotten me more kills,than this

even the mp443 and the beretta are on par with this if you have a macro or auto clicker

[leaden nacelle]

(Possibly the the the beretta is better due to its almost 3sk)

What you all also aren't getting is that this gun has a damage of 19

19!!!

that is a 6sk with no armor at all

with armor its up to a 7 or 8 shot

and since the gun only has like 19 bullets

Your only going to be able to kill one person at best

[devout oxide]

guns should not be balanced around macros

[devout oxide]

almost 3sk =/= 3sk

[devout oxide]

at 1100 firerate. even with the low damage, that's still a better TTK than some primaries, as well as a better TTK than the unica, and (realistically) every other pistol other than 1 tap headshots from the RSH or deagle

[devout oxide]

guess what sidearms are for, buddy

[median imp]

The slow fire pistols do all have a worse ttk than the fast firing ones

But they become good if you can aim for heads with any consistency

[devout oxide]

yes, they're a high risk/high reward weapon

they have clear downsides in the form of slowing you down and a mediocre TTK with bodyshots

this is good game design

[median imp]

Seriously though. Sidearms being able to kill more people is major. The places where I actually use a sidearm are usually situations where I’m surrounded by enemies and need to kill as many as I can before they realise I exist and kill me

[devout oxide]

you should really take the time when you're unnoticed to reload your primary

sidearms are for when you're out of juice for your primary, or your primary doesn't fit the bill (like a sniper rifle in CQC)

[median imp]

Yeah like 3 seconds compared to less than a second to switch weapons is a pretty big deal

[devout oxide]

yes, you spend the 3 seconds to reload your primary, and if you hear someone sneaking up on you, then you quickly pull out your pistol and blast his ass

[median imp]

One neat thing about slow firing guns is they are far less noticeable, if you’re using a slow fire rate pistol often they literally don’t notice you while you’re shooting at them

Maybe people assume it’s a glancing grenade hit or something, idk

[median imp]

Usually I am in direct line of sight to the enemies in this kind of situation

Speed is essential

[leaden nacelle]

Idk man all I'm saying is that I've gotten up to rank 160 and I've played with all of the secondaries a lot and I think most of them are balanced (still think the usp and rsh need some slight buffs)

besides that I think its the user

Based off of what they like or dont

I personally and play just as well with the glock 18 as any of the other pistols except the usp

I'd even say that the glock 18 has a disadvantage because it sprays all of its ammo so fast that if your not locked on a target quickly enough the mag will just be done

(Not to mention the reload speed of this thing isn't quick by any means as well as not many mags)

[devout oxide]

then don't miss? missing is just as, if not more punishing with the other sidearms

[devout oxide]

doesn't matter because you're not gonna be using the glock full time anyway. for picking off a single person (which is by far the most common use case scenario for a sidearm), there is no better option than the glock

[leaden nacelle]

I run out of primary ammo pretty quickly sonetimes and then I resort to my secondaries full ammo supply

its not rare

[devout oxide]

then you need to equip ranger armor and/or call resupplies more

it's rare for me to run out and i often get >80 kills per match

[waxen iris]

Different playstyles
Sometimes you just get nedic with light armor and rush headless into enemy
Sometimes you get to spend all 5 mags and in the span it would took you to wait for the care package you'll get a few more kills with a pistol / c4 and have 2 more lives

[devout oxide]

there's no real reason to use light armor over ranger armor

[median imp]

Speed

If you don’t need the extra ammo it’s just inferior

Armour is the biggest factor in movement speed afaik so the 2.5% difference there is significantly bigger than it would be on a gun for example

I often run medium armour with an AUG and even without an ammo kit you get 8 mags from a fairly high capacity gun. So ranger is useless there

[devout oxide]

i love zooming around on medic and you really don't need to be faster than ranger armor to be effective. having more ammo lets you capitalize on your speed more, since well, if you're not using your speed to kill people, then why even have it in the first place? exclusively to run from one objective to another?

and if for some reason you don't need the extra ammo... then you certainly don't need to resort to your sidearms full ammo supply either

[median imp]

If I were to assume this stance reflects more than just you individually, it is quite frustrating how people will act like speed is worth everything or nothing just depending on the context of the argument.

Still. Sidearms for me are never a resort for running out of ammo, they’re a resort for emptying a mag without killing everyone.

In my case I will get a potential ~56 kills without needing to resupply with medium armour + aug, realistically that’s a lot lower. But even with a fairly low accuracy I very rarely get like 15+ kill streaks, and when I have it is in part not with my primary. And even when this does happen, I usually play assault so could have an ammo kit.

Ranger armour would just be a loss in durability for no gain

[gilded moss]

Other than mp443 since 25*1.2<33.34

[gilded moss]

Unica is the gun for those situations Imo but it isn't guaranteed, G18 is the get one almost guaranteed kill and then reload your primary gun.

[median imp]

I would definitely say you’re more likely to kill with the Unica/deagle than a glock with a whole mag

You’d have to miss most of your shots to not have any left over

[devout oxide]

even if you don't miss any shots, both of them have substantially lower TTKs (barring an instakill headshot with the deagle)

[leaden nacelle]

Yeah but if your accurate enough,headshots will be super great with those weapons

even without headshots,a 2 shot kill is insane for a semi pistol

[gilded moss]

I'm pretty sure that the firerate on the deagle is slow

[devout oxide]

it's really not that impressive

even if you don't miss and don't hit armor, your TTK is still going to be 0.300 with the unica or 0.400 with the deagle

if you hit normal armor, that's going up to 0.600 with the unica

and deagle only 1 shots on players without helmets. if they have a helmet, you're going to get shafted

the glock on the other hand is 0.273 (AK74 is 0.269 in comparison), and is far more forgiving in regards to misses due to the high firerate

[leaden nacelle]

It is,but in my experience you can get two shots off in less than a second

[leaden nacelle]

I feel like ttk isn't everything when it comes to weapons if this is true,because with the deagle and unica maining im getting like 50-60 kill games while with the glock I only get 35-40

Max 47 once

I completely agree the glock is a great gun but to say its overpowered is a bit much since other weapons are just as good if not better

[devout oxide]

there's a case to be made with the unica, deagle and RSH

unica is a great all rounder, and deagle/RSH have the 1 shot potential

but the semi pistols are just completely overshadowed by the glock

they look great on paper, but with realistic click speeds they fall quite flat. that's why i think there needs to be a reason to use them over the glock

either glock needs a lot more recoil and be hard to control outside of CQC, or it needs a movement penalty (not as dire as the deagle or RSH, but something that stops it from being essentially a straight upgrade)

[gilded moss]

Bind mouse wheel to fire, in theory, ez 4 shot burst

[leaden nacelle]

Thats a pistol issue not a glock issue

If you really want the base version of pistols (non macrod) to be up to par with the glock (in which I kind of agree since not many people have as fast of a trigger finger as me) the pistols should be buffed to have more damage

The glock compared to the base pistols is better (not by a lot but a definitely a slight bit) just find a way for the pistols to be up to par with the glock

Even I see the difference between the pistols and the heavy pistols/glock

that doesn't mean nerf all of them,it just means the pistols need some buffs

[leaden nacelle]

If you could scroll fast enough that would practically be full auto which also works

but there again if you buff the pistols damage,the macrod versions of them would be absolutely insane

Pretty much then beating the glock by a huge margin

[devout oxide]

yeah

that's why i think glock just needs to be toned down a little bit

the heavy pistols are fine, they're harder to use and have noticeable drawbacks

it's just the glock that's stupid easy to use. no need to click fast, no need to control recoil, just point at a man and kill him about as fast as a primary would

i think lowering the movement speed would make the most sense. snipers and DMR users would still like a full auto sidearm, but players on the front lines would appreciate the extra speed from the semi autos or the unica. it'd make for an interesting choice. do i want a sidearm that's far easier to use, or do i want to move faster?

[leaden nacelle]

Lowering move speed would be ok but making the recoil higher would make it kind of unusable especially when you have to hit all of your shots to even get a kill

Which is easier rn since it has relatively low recoil

Lowering walk speed to that of a small smg would be ok

[wooden grove]

Gun obviously needs a nerf. It on its own is better than the 3 pistols before it without any doubt.

It was already strong before and then it was buffed even further

Like? How can this even happen, do you not have any statistics on gun win and userates?

[devout oxide]

^

id really like to see how many people use the glock compared to everything else

[muted sapphire]

I'd support more recoil because realistically even really strong people cant control it that well

I truly think the other pistols need buffed

rn your better off reloading unless you have the 1 shot head shot guns or the glock

[leaden nacelle]

I say a rework

Nerf recoil but give it better reload

[stable matrix]

too good

[next jewel]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3IFHa89Wrgs

[next jewel]

too accurate.

[copper turtle]

kinda true :/ but love

[leaden nacelle]

Even irl it's accurate depending on the user so why should it be inaccurate in game?

[next jewel]

10 cm radius spread on 5 meters distance is accurate?

[leaden nacelle]

Yeah

I've seen people handle it better than him though

[devout oxide]

because realism is never more important than gameplay?

[leaden nacelle]

Then make the min damage bad

[green timber]

Too powerful, literally just run around with just that

[vast verge]

Slap a drum mag on it so we can feel like gangsters in chicago