M4A1 - Feedback

[rocky heart]

Put your feedback on the M4A1.

Please keep it on topic, and civil, we want serious feedback

• No gifs
• No 'skill issue'
• No video's - (Testing video's in the Polygon are fine)

[worldly wigeon]

It’s basically a laser. With the tac barrel and vert grip i have no problem killing snipers from 250+ meters

[wooden plover]

Make M4A1 less accurate at longer range. But add the M16A4 which is more accurate at range, but has only the semi/burst options

[sick umbra]

As others have mentioned, this thing is just too accurate. You know a gun is too strong when it's an "entry-level" gun that still outclasses later unlocks.

You don't have to be aggressive with it, but make it just inaccurate enough that other ARs/DMRs which have that stronger damage stand out.

[hard wren]

I feel this gun is way too strong especially for a level 1 weapon. It's good to have variety between the starter weapons, and this weapon fills the void of an easier to control weapon that does a little less damage vs the AK variants. The problem is it far too accurate over long distances with minimal investment and feels like it makes many later guns feel pointless.

[eternal adder]

everything is good with this weapon

[broken ibex]

There is no reason to change anything with this weapon with the current leveling system, if youre gonna nerf it, then add more assault rifle variety at lower levels (like everyone has been asking for ages now)

[solid quail]

It is a great gun overall. The M4 with certain attachments as people are suggesting is just a laser and a really strong weapon to start off with. The one downside to this weapon is that idea that it is given to the player right away and after a lot of my testing this gun alone outshines 90% of the other assault rifles. If we kept any attachments when we prestiged it logically would be just smart to use the M4 through every prestige.

I don't know how I feel about nerfing the damage or the range on the weapon when you start comparing this gun to other guns. I don't enjoy the idea of stronger weapons being locked at later levels and making the beginning weapons useless. For the most part the M4 is the reliable assault rifle that gets the job done, but can be outshined by others.

[gray moon]

M4 great as is

[ebon crescent]

Balanced gun

[sturdy shell]

The only changes i would make would be to better fit its typical purpose of medium ranges, either lower fire rate with optional attachments to change this at the cost of distance or lower distance at the benefit of better medium-range-benefiting attachments.

I also agree that in it's current state, it's way too good for a lvl 1 weapon. However, giving it tweaks that give it more specific use-cases keep it unique will help it stay as a vital learning weapon for new players while maintaining it's helpfulness for different classes and strats even late game.

My thoughts on that delve into overall balance changes, so i won't go into details here but basically make it have a different use case than a worse smg

[spare lotus]

It’s good as is. Doesn’t need a rework.

[trail citrus]

i know its minimal effect but why does the m4 quick mag have a downside meanwhile the ak74 quick mag doesnt? but yeah overall i think m4 is just ok as is (hk419 tho needs a buff when its like takes rank 125 to unlock and should be a slightly better m4 since it literally an upgraded version of it)

[narrow turret]

Gud

[violet basin]

Fire rate is too high for its recoil and accuracy stats, it's basically an assault rifle SMG headshot machine even at range and outclasses DMR's, machine guns and pretty much all other rifles.

I'd suggest giving it an overall tone-down of stats, lower control and increase recoil slightly so it's not instantly lethal at medium to long range.

[cerulean merlin]

The main complaint appears to be that it is too accurate at range, but its accuracy isn't above-average for ARs. However its very low horizontal recoil (0.6) stands out, the same applies to the AK74. Other ARs with ~30dmg @ ~700rpm (G36C, HK419, SG550) tend to have much worse horizontal recoil.
I would propose to start with increasing horizontal recoil so that follow-up shots in a burst are harder to connect while distant. Something in the area of 0.8 instead of the current 0.6 sounds reasonable to me without getting too similar to the HK419.

As for the people who say that

It's way too good for a lvl 1 weapon
, to me the underlying argument seems to be that "noobs don't deserve meta weapons". This reasoning is flawed, "good guns" should be a right, not something to be earned.

[autumn trail]

Lazer gun, no need to use any other gun.
Balance it increasing horizontal recoil, little bit of vertical recoil, and muzzle flash scale (from 0.5 to around 0.6~0.65) so when in full auto it might get in the way of the player, same as SG550 (example of "getting in the way", not meant to say that muzzle flash should be 1 for m4).

[ebon crescent]

Muzzle flash scale shouldn't be a way of balancing

[autumn trail]

Minor tweaks so the gun doesnt get "too nerfed".

[simple zealot]

muzzle flash is not 'minor'

[autumn trail]

I dont think that is a major thing, and I am not saying to increase to 1, as other guns

[trail citrus]

you literaly did say

another gun tho

like

same as sg550

which is the only gone dat does that

idk pepega moment i said gone instead of gun

[autumn trail]

I didnt meant to say it that way, i used as a example of disturbance ( english is not my native language so mb )

[gray moon]

terrible takes all around. M4 is good but not great, there are a dozen better guns, but it's competitive and a great all around gun, which is vital as it's a starter weapon and you want new players to have a chance against people who are higher level. "balancing" with muzzle flash or other visual obstruction is fucking stupid and should never be done under any circumstance.

[sturdy shell]

Couldn't agree more. Hindering visibility just for balance or making it just a higher-tier weapon is stupid, there can be much better and cleaner ways to go about balancing a weapon. Imagine if the sniper had a balance that just made you stand out when ads- wait....

(still think glint is a good idea, even if it's kind of lame)

[gray moon]

glint doesn't visually obstruct you, though. It doesn't visually obstruct your enemies, either.

[sturdy shell]

Im aware, just thought it might be a good spot to put in a joke. I realize it doesn't work that well though

What would you do to change the m4, if anything? Or would you rather change other guns to better match the m4's level of balance?

[gray moon]

M4 needs no changes at this time, it's in a very good spot. It's a great all around weapon, but is outshined by more niche weapons.

[sturdy shell]

Good idea. I generally agree, and most of my proposed changes would be for a later date when more pressing weapons are dealt with.

[cerulean merlin]

Slight nerf to horizontal recoil and the M4 is golden.

[rocky shuttle]

This is an incredibly silly piece of feedback - I fully admit that. But I think modifying the in-game model to look like an early GWOT M4a1 with a fixed front sight post would be a really slick change.

[stoic chasm]

only thing i want for the m4 is to be able to change my cover pannels to different types (kinda an m4 thing) otherwise i personally think the m4 is dang good where its at, though all AR platforms in my opinion are lacking in range by about 100-200m.

[gray moon]

that'd be a cosmetic option, right? Or are you suggestion another attachment slot?

[stoic chasm]

i geuss thats open for interpretation by the devs 😉 bare min cosmetics, however the idea of it being able to reduce a bit of weight at the expense of no side rails and or under rails would be pretty nice imo. but yeah for the most part id like to be able to rock a block 2 look alike, or switch to the old nam style panels depending on the play style im feeling. couldn't hurt to maybe have it adjust the handling stats a bit too but i could see how that would be a stretch for one gun

[rocky shuttle]

I just want to see it look like an issued gun… not a budget conscious civilian rifle 😅

[vivid willow]

too accurate

[plain heart]

might although not only be the m4a1 at fault because many of the later guns are generally just bad compared to whats in the game at the moment

[trail citrus]

i know what accurate means but like in what standard do you mean accurate in x amount distance? cuz every gun is accurate in this game tho

like nerf the accuracy stat? cuz most AR are same accuracy around 70-80?

[ripe wharf]

For the starter AR it’s way too controllable. It has the best horizontal recoil of the class and in the lowest ms of the game, making hard for the later unlocks to compete, since M4 is just that easy to control while being a very competitive gun.

[cerulean merlin]

We have been over this already.
M4's accuracy is normal for ARs, its horizontal recoil is a little too low (same with ak74).
'Too accurate' and 'too low horizontal recoil' are vastly different.

[trail citrus]

they couldve swapped m4 and hk419 stats tbf

[cerulean merlin]

then we'd be having the same argument over the hk419. Or are you talking specifically about horizontal recoil of M4 and HK?

[trail citrus]

since hk419 is a better variant of the m4

i mean hk419 takes higher rank

to unlock

than m4

should make sense tbh

but i get what you mean that its very good compared to others

[cerulean merlin]

How often do I have to spell out to people that "locking all good guns behind high ranks" does not solve fundamental balance issues and is a dick move to new or casual players?!

[trail citrus]

but they should just like buff other rifles than actually nerfing the m4 and m4/ak74 be like a standard

[trail citrus]

no hk419 stats is actually friendly to new players

hk419 only has worst h recoil but better V recoil

im just saying why should a better variant be worst than the older version?

[cerulean merlin]

compensating for vert. recoil is trivial, compensating for hor. recoil is not. M4 has much better hor. recoil

Also, apologies for the earlier rant. I got a little carried away when you essentially proposed to "just lock the M4 behind a high rank".

[trail citrus]

its fine im used to it

i mean just give it the hk419 horizontal recoil then since they are litearlly the same family of AR

but i think m4 is fine at is they just need the m4 abd ak74 be the base of other rifle stat

[brazen copper]

I agree, I really hope more cosmetics get added. I much prefer the look of a basic M4A1 with milspec stock, carry handle, and A2 front sight post 🤌. Statistically I think it's fine though.

[arctic ravine]

M4 being good is just a symptom of everything else feeling comparitively bad. would rather have the balance changes to go buff route first, see how it goes and then nerf when necessary

it feels like switching from a mp7 to the vector, you just feel that you can win fights confidently (to a lesser degree, the vector is busted). In the AR world, this feels like switching from AUG to M4, the AUG is terrible in comparison.

[violet basin]

if everything else is bad and the M4 is good, that probably means the M4 is overtuned and everything else is either where it should be or undertuned

[arctic ravine]

i'm more inclined to it being the other way around. i usually go by overall "feel" of the gun, and right now, arguably the AR class only has 3 solid choices which offer the right amount of combined stats to be viable

making everything feel terrible to use is a good path to identity crisis, where everything handles equally bad. I guarentee that the best ARs will then be defined by short reloads and high RoF (glances at SMGs...)

[violet basin]

AR's each have thier niche, except M4 which is good (better) at almost everything

I counter that AR's only feel terrible if you've primarily used the M4, other guns handle well and are nice to use, but only excel in a single niche

The M4 feels like it was supposed to be a forgiving middle-ground jack of all trades AR, as a good introductory weapon to BB with nice handling

Which is good, I think it's just about 10% over-tuned

[arctic ravine]

Fair point, although there are outliers. Honestly for some of those, context is important. FAMAS feels ok in 32v32, take it to anything else and it's an unusable reload simulator. AUG limits you to long range pea-shooting and the AK5C, for what it puts out is just worse in everything

[violet basin]

AUG is a good weapon but requires a specific build, I'm running around with it at the moment and it's a lot of fun. Highly controllable with limited recoil and reasonable damage/velocity, backed by poor ROF

[arctic ravine]

i firmly believe that the dev team needs to look at reload speed especially

[violet basin]

the reload speed for AUG is quite good*

What the aug isn't is forgiving, you can't miss shots or you're just dead

[arctic ravine]

and RoF, as you've just mentioned. RoF dictates multiplicative flinch, which is another issue to consider. In summary, I would like a careful approach instead of broadly nerfing the "perceived" BiS guns. Also since the unlock system is in place, you'll get much more accurate feedback when a larger playerbase have actually tried out everything in the game. Right now, the starting guns are overrepresented

[cerulean merlin]

One also has to consider the feasibility of making a change; is it more feasible to

• balance only the M4 around all other ARs (easy and fast, low impact, highly targeted), or
• balance every other AR around the M4 (very difficult and time intensive, high impact, extremely broad, and a high likelihood of creating more balance problems than you had before)
  ?

[arctic ravine]

HM

i still think that the underperformers need to be buffed first

as the m4 is not as egregious as the vector in terms of imbalance.

[cerulean merlin]

"Not as egregious as the Vector" is a low bar. The existence of the Vector doesn't justify not nerfing other overperformers.
On a related note, nerfing overperformers tends to (but doesn't necessarily) indirectly buff underperformers.

[arctic ravine]

in the sense that they are less "bad"? that's not really a buff then

[cerulean merlin]

Emphasis on the "not necessarily".
I agree that it doesn't change much about the "ordering" of weapons regarding "general power level", but occasionally a nerf of one (generally better) gun that fits some niche can improve the viability a different (generally worse) weapon within that niche.

For example, making M4 burstfiring less reliable at range might, as a tendency, make generally worse "long-range" ARs more viable.

[simple zealot]

all the long range ars, aug sg ak15 scar fal, are already very viable and the most used ars after m4

[arctic ravine]

hard disagree

viable? yes. but there are stricly worse outliers

[simple zealot]

aug isn't good but it's still fairly popular compared to weapons like hk famas or acr

[arctic ravine]

i can play with the AUG and SG well. But they are still much worse

[simple zealot]

how is sg much worse? m4 is more versatile on paper but neither gun outmatches the other

[arctic ravine]

I'm currently enjoying the HK and honestly it's not far away from the M4 imo.

[arctic ravine]

atrocious muzzle flash is one thing

same with the AUG

[simple zealot]

flash hider, both guns have no vertical anyway

[arctic ravine]

well, forcing one particular muzzle attachment due to bad visuals doesn't give the impression of balance, does it?

[simple zealot]

what other barrel would you ever use on those guns anyway, they don't need lb because the btk doesn't change and the dropoff range ensures that for the furthest range you'd ever use them for

im not saying that the muzzle flash is fine, it's stupid, but there wouldn't be any reason to use other barrels either way

[arctic ravine]

i'm not saying it's not BiS, but certainly i would like to test around other muzzle attachments, furthermore if the Flash hider get's a nerf, you got the worst of bothj

[simple zealot]

flash hider getting nerfed would be the most nonsensical developer decision in the history of videogames

[arctic ravine]

bro how many loops you wanna go through?

[simple zealot]

you still have suppressors to run with too

where has there ever been the slightest hint of the possibility of flash hider getting nerfed

because i want to see this, and if it's actually ever considered i'll drop this game immediately

[arctic ravine]

it's a hypothetical. just fix the muzzle flash instead, don't know why we're arguing about this. the thread is about the m4

[simple zealot]

completely unwarranted hypothetical, especially when suppressors still exist

and yea i already said the muzzle flash is stupid

i really think swapping places with hk and m4 and giving hk a slight increase in range dropoff but not on the same level as the long range rifles could be agood change

because around the point where you unlock hk, you also have the g36c, which is basically a better m4, if the g36c was the starter ar instead of m4 people would be begging for nerfs just like with the m4 right now

so progression wise it makes more sense to have them unlock around the same time as they perform similarly, with m4 being slightly easier to use at longer range but g36 being superior at close range

and a hk with slightly better dropoff at lvl0 would be a good mid range ar choice for beginner players until they unlock sg/aug which are much later unlocks

rn hk is just an inferior ak74 in every way

it would still need a few more tweaks besides just the dropoff range but i think that would be a good way to balance the starter ars, one for closer ranges and one for longer ranges

because rn ak74 and m4 are essentially the same gun

m4 being a slightly stronger ak74 that you unlock later makes sense progression wise

[atomic python]

AR's are struggling enough in this game imo, plz dont nerf. M4 is pretty much the most reliable AR to use.

[arctic ravine]

problem is they've got some many little tweaks to do one overhaul might break everything more, which is why they are asking for feedback.

[simple zealot]

yea m4 is perfectly balanced, other ars just have issues, like acr needs buffs so its not just a m4 with 5 less damage, sg and aug need their muzzle flashes fixed, hk419 needs something so it's not just an ak74 with worse velocity and 10 less rof, ak5c probably needs its stats redone completely

[vapid violet]

I feel like it's a good gun but if you get any better than it you're hitting overtuned territory so it's so weird this is the first AR you unlock.

[charred lark]

Why does evryone want to nerf everything. M4 is fine

[trail citrus]

hk419 has same velocity tho

with ak74 and m4

hk419 different is rof, hrecoil and v recoil and damn reload speed also its quick mag has penalty on both recoil and 6 less ammo lmao

oh yeah also the control stats is different from the ak74 but he is same with m4

[livid grove]

M4A1 needs it's burst fire mode removed. It isn't a feature of the weapon irl AND it isn't useful in game. Just makes swapping between semi and auto more annoying.

[spare lotus]

why would you use anything other than full auto, if you want semi just like tap fire

[livid grove]

Because rate of fire makes tap firing single rounds annoying where you sometimes fire more than one giving a larger aim reset. And swapping modes is trivial to do.

[rocky heart]

Personally, I think the M4A1 is fine, I'm enjoying using it

[dark wigeon]

The M4 is arguably in the top 3 best ARs, arguably the best. If we want the M4 to stay the same other rifles need to be buffed.

[simple zealot]

fal and g36 are 100% better, m4 probably has 3rd place

[dark wigeon]

Issue with the fal is at range because horizontal recoil is RNG you have to tap fire but it may end up much slower than just lasering them with the M4. No experience with G36 though but it also has pretty high horizontal recoil.

[simple zealot]

1.0 hor is irrelevant especially with urk lowering it further, hor is only a issue past 1.5

no, you don't have to tap with the fal either

you could say that m4 is the most reliable/consistent weapon in the game yeah

[gray moon]

definitely nowhere near the best lol

[ember moon]

M4A1 recoils just enough to make pushing the range actual skill rather than pure luck, good gun :3

[charred lark]

Its prob 4/5th

[mighty meadow]

far to OP vs snipers, they are lasers. By it's tuning snipers must one shot from any distance. Same goes for most automatic / semi-auto rifels. They are very overtuned with no downsides really.

[charred lark]

This is what we call a skill issue

[willow knot]

Gun needs some type of downside outside of high recoil that's easy to stabilize.

Reminds me of the old havoc from apex legends weirdly enough that had really easy recoil to control even though it was "high", don't know how you'd fix that outside of adding a smidge more horizontal recoil.

A smidge though, don't murder it but give it some extra side kick that's actually reactable.

To clarify, I don't think its OP or anything. I just think it's a smidge strong for how early you get it.

[stiff burrow]

The gun is so good it's boring, so basically it's fine where it's at.

[stable zenith]

I believe other guns need more balancing rather than m4 being reworked, m4 stands out extremely more compared to the other AR´s there are like 2-3 AR´s that stand out and mostly (ak 15 - 75 and m4) i believe other weapons should be tweaked to stand out more and new AR´s should be added so we see more diverse gameplay user wise as well

[willow knot]

My issue is this gun being used as a comparison point for it being a rank 0 gun.

That says a lot about how strong this mf is for when you get it and how much it holds up.

[slate osprey]

I’ve won way too many gun fights I rightfully should have lost thanks to the forgivable nature of the M4. Makes sense for a starter weapon but with later attachments, recoil is extremely low. Can’t think of anything that would reasonably solve the issue though.

[stiff burrow]

It's kind of crazy though, if it wasn't for the Fal or potentially AK5C for close range combat, this gun would easily be the best rifle. The M4 is far better than the SG, AUG, FAMAS. It's slightly better than the AK74 and HK419. It's the perfect all arounder.

[simple zealot]

famas with lb and extended is better at close range, g36c is objectively stronger since it's a m4 with a higher firerate, fal is obvious, ak15 is around m4's level in performance, yeah the hk, aug, acr and ak5c are outmatched though, i'd say sg is pretty equal

[ember moon]

i'm kinda glad the M4A1 is a starter gun, it gives beginners a chance and the skill ceiling isn't so high that you're going to be dominating the lobby with the gun as a crutch

[weary sandal]

yes

[cerulean merlin]

It would still be a really good gun without the outright ridiculous 0.6 horizontal recoil (not to forget attachment modifiers). Similar ARs / sidegrades like the G36 or HK419 don't even go lower than 0.9.

The M4's ranking would probably be barely (or not at all) affected by increasing its horizontal recoil a tiny bit (e.g. 0.8).
One could still argue whether to bother with a paper nerf.

[trail citrus]

you can actually lower horizontal recoil below 0.9 but with higher vrecoil

[cerulean merlin]

I'm aware. I'm talking about base stats. You could push 0.6 down even further as well.

[trail citrus]

you wont feel it on 0.8 if you are just using red dots or similar

unless you are using medium scopes with same magnification of m125

[shell yoke]

This gun doesnt need a nerf, other guns need buffs

[prisma bear]

please buff weapons instead of Nerfing, Nerfs lead to an endless cycle.

[trail citrus]

both buff and nerf can lead to endless cycle it just depends on the game meta

[prisma bear]

true, but I find that nerfing something will just lead to other guns doing its job, meaning more nerfs, while buffing something to make it stronger will have much less heat taken if its walked back.

[radiant jacinth]

Thats why there needs to be a meta of a lot of different guns instead of continuous nerfs and buffs

[hexed plank]

The M4A1 model is a bit crooked, you can see that the top rail is a good bit off to the right (both behind and in front of the sight). I know this is super minor for pretty much everyone else but it bothers me so much that I refuse to use what is otherwise a top tier weapon.

[ebon crescent]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-no-oh-no-anyway-gif-18887547

[spare thicket]

I would only like to see the barrel attachments becoming sized better

[spare thicket]

at the end, if you make damage taking much more of a risk in game, slowing movement and adapting everything around it, it doesn't matter anymore

[molten pond]

i dont know if its something that can be fixed but when reloading the mag tends to clip trough the magwell

[tacit orbit]

Well...looks interesting, but you do realize that in the M4A1 the buffer tube with spring is not just a decorative element, right?
Yeah...just realism. This is not a weapon where you can remove or fold the tube and shoot full-auto.

[tacit orbit]

I'm not sure if the M4A1 is supposed to have three firing modes.
It is claimed that there is only semi-auto and full-auto, not including safety

[trail citrus]

does it matter?

if you are arguing with realism in some of the cosmetics

just remember theres crystal growing out of one of its skins

and does it burst mode should just be removed anyway nobody uses it

[prisma bear]

M4A1 only has single and auto truthfully. burst does work at mid range

[tacit orbit]

It makes sense if you like the weapon at least visually and aesthetically and can't stand that kind of perversion.
I don't like crystals either, it looks silly.
But players would rather wear clown costumes (If possible) and run around with a Christmas toy than something that at least looks like a combat weapon.

[willow knot]

You literally have that option though, just don't use the skin.

[tacit orbit]

I don't use either, I don't want to feel like a clown.

[willow knot]

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