Littlebird is the most useless thing in the game.

[olive wharf]

Literally you cant do shite with it, I tried it against infantry, it barely doesnt any damage and i cant even aim. Against vehicles, you can hit but almost every vehicle needs like at least 600 rounds to even kill it.

It needs a rocket that does damage, or at least buff the mg for now

[serene moon]

Here's how another person did well with it to help you figure the mg out
Yes, duplicate post gets duplicate response
https://youtu.be/ovWPI8ZlEBI

[olive wharf]

well there isnt really figuring out much, eh? he just seems he has experience. Steading your aim with the littlebird isnt easy.

[timid frost]

the secret is to learn how to maneuver and line up shots. Devs already said we aint getting rockets.

[pure mural]

I mentioned in another thread, but the real issue is that
A: the little bird has a bad camera movement, while the W locked to center screen is your reference point, makes the crosshair look like it's bouncing around (crosshair is actually locked to the true forward of the helicopter)
B: The controls, especially yaw which you probably have on keyboard inputs, are too responsive
C: You can't adjust aim using momentum because projectiles don't inherit velocity.

[peak zephyr]

posting the top 0.1% as the expectation and entirety of your argument is very weak

the flight model is extremely arcadey to a fault, and outside of the video pictured, the average person cant really line up shots on anything smaller than a vehicle at any range with the littlebird.

there's no autorotation, the heli practically stops moving when you stop pressing W, momentum and conservation of velocity practically dont exist, you can snap the thing around on a dime comically fast

and you might think, isnt it being so responsive a good thing? not when anything outside of trackmania levels of keyboard accuracy isnt good enough to line up shots due to how arcade like the controls are.

the flight model is mid and the littlebird is useless outside of 0.1% top of the bell curve cracked out players.

[olive wharf]

yes exactly

i tried again yesterday been playin for 10 hours. i literally couldnt get used to the controls, this must take fucking weeks by only playing littlebird

a waste of time really

[gentle moat]

do you also get a FREE LOOK when pressing RMB so you can't really aim while flyinh, or is it just me?

[serene moon]

Original argument was its useless (that's a strong word), it needs rockets (Oki already said no, you can see from TrueDevil in |•| READ THIS BEFORE POSTING |•|), and it needs stronger MG (I don't have an opinion on that part). I learned to aim by watching and that's how I got good myself, but I understand not everyone learns the same
I personally am okay with the momentum, but I don't have experience in a game with a similar helicopter to compare, so if you say the movement, controls, and camera are off, I'll believe you

[pure mural]

Not just this, if you're pitched forward while holding S you go backwards

[peak zephyr]

might i add, in ravenfield, if anyone has experience with that game, the helicopter handling is decently realistic, and despite the attack heli in that game having a similarly functioning gun (high RPM, low spread, fixed front angle), it is vastly easier to attack infantry due to the smoother, more realistic handling that allows higher accuracy with gun runs.

if the devs move to a more realistic flight model, i'd suggest to add a vector indicator in the cockpit view, of which is simply a HUD element that shows the direction the vehicle is currently moving in.

i.e, you are currently angled 45 degrees and accelerating, the vector indicator shows you the true direction you are moving in, which is roughly level with the ground assuming you are at high collective

[sweet saddle]

Got much more kills after adjusting my playstyle with the Littlebird, e.g. picking my targets more carefully (like attacking groups that are already engaged in a firefight/are distracted by something), pull out once heat is on me, not over extending into enemy territory, moving with own groundforces.

(also if you haven't switched your Yaw and Roll controls you are not doing yourself a favor)

[pure mural]

absolutely shouldn't have to do this.

[sweet saddle]

It makes aiming so much easier and feels more natural. But yes, nobody is forcing you to play like that, you do you.

[dense hearth]

problem is, it comes to a dead stop almost instantly the moment you let go of W, the crosshair is not an indicator of where you are aiming at, theres janky mouse smoothing and no way to adjust your sensativity.

[pure mural]

No, I mean, the yaw response shouldn't be so obnoxiously twitchy that it's impossible to aim with A and D

[dense hearth]

switch yaw to mouse and put roll on A/D

[pure mural]

not

[sweet saddle]

I know it's incredibly twitchy.
That's due to the nature of keyboard buttons, they only know two input states: On and Off.

If Yaw is mapped to the Mouse instead of the Keyboard it is buttery smooth.
Again, you do you, but when you play as infantry you don't aim using [A] and [D] do you? - then why would you want your aim inputs on those buttons in the Heli?

[pure mural]

because pitch and roll are what governs the directional movement of the heli. You do a lot more flying than you do aiming after all, and 2/3 helis don't even have guns.

[sweet saddle]

I can strafe my Heli just fine using [A] and [D] - my flight controls are not hindered at all by switching the controls.
You should give it a try. If you don't like it that's fine.

[pure mural]

I'm well aware I'd manage to fly, and that I'd aim better, but it doesn't change my feedback in the feedback thread that the yaw response is too twitchy.

[tacit pond]

I've had my tail rotor destroyed randomly near max height travelling at pretty high speeds, so I feel like the tail rotor is too easy to destroy

First time I put it down to a lucky/awesome shot but I've had it happen a bunch of times now

[tacit pond]

In terms of general balance, people hover to aim and then wonder why they get sniped out of the cockpit all the time, I find you really need to keep on the move. You have no protection - which is how it should be imo

[dense hearth]

you are forced to hove and aim with how janky the mouth smoothing is in the helicopter, its like theres a huge deadzone you have to fight through with no way to change vehicle sensativity

and theres also no place to actually practice

you have to wait 10 minutes in the spawn screen and hope nobody takes it

[tacit pond]

I've spent quite a lot of time flying the littlebird so maybe I just got used to it, so can't really comment on that. But yeah no way to practice is a bit unfortunate

[dense hearth]

Yeah, i have about 8k nightbird kills in 2042 and around 15k in littlebird on bf4, so im no stranger to flying. it just feels very off and weird.

its very much so not worth it in its current state to pilot, given how easily they are countered by small arms fire amongst the other issues

[tacit pond]

Yeah I don't disagree that they are weak, I find them fun still though. I think the community generally are very against buffs for the helicopters because they hate being killed by something thats difficult for them to touch and they don't want to learn how to use

[dense hearth]

people always hate any form of vehicles, yet still play combined arms games.

[tacit pond]

I don't think people appreciate the time it takes to get good at using them

Yeah

[timid frost]

Its always worth it, just because you cant laser people or rocket them doesnt make the littlebird shitty

Just gotta readapt

[pure mural]

mouse smoothing?

[dense hearth]

if you move the same distance on your pad it does not go to the same location, distance is based on how fast you move it

just feels like it was designed with a controller instead of a mouse

[pure mural]

You can't really call that mouse smoothing. It has a maximum turn rate, and doesn't just turn 1:1 with mouse input it has angular acceleration. (whether it's 2nd order motion with you commanding speed or 1st order motion with you commanding acceleration is difficult to tell).

[dense hearth]

max turning rate has nothing to do with it. If i wanted max turn i would use yaw on keyboard. Again, im no stranger to flying helicopters in games

[elder moss]

i agree. the littlebird is fairly useless and is stupidly easy to shoot down.

[hybrid steeple]

heli's mechanism is strange but i can deal with it.

S is quiet useful when you need to dodge fire line

[sharp warren]

agreed, they need to add momentum and g force type shit, the controls are so...weird.

[kind magnet]

The armed Little Bird is useless. The unarmed one is better than the Black Hawk.

This was yesterday on Tensatown.

Meanwhile if I fly the updated Black Hawks I get shot down or shot out on the first pass.

The Black Hawks seem to inherit a little velocity from bullets it's hit by. Obviously RPGs and BTR rounds push it around, but sometimes I get thrown all over the place just from the tink-tink-tink of bullets from a rifle.
The new model also seems to make everyone on board far more vulnerable.

The Black Hawk miniguns aren't much of an advantage over the unarmed Little Bird either, since they hardly do any damage.

I'm not saying the unarmed Little Bird needs to be nerfed, just that the Black Hawk needs a buff.

I tried to fly the Black Hawk earlier today and people wouldn't even spawn on me. They'd just spawn in the base and take a Humvee, even on huge maps with difficult terrain.

[pure mural]

Two issues I have with the black hawk is that for the minigunners, the camera lagging behind the crosshair throws me off. As the pilot, the weird physics, of the flight model, and of course how heavy the black hawk is compared to the little bird.

[kind magnet]

I agree, but I feel like the miniguns would be fine if they did slightly more damage and had slightly less spread. A strong suppression effect would also work.

[pure mural]

I honestly have no idea how much spread they have because there's so much shake

[hexed nymph]

Can we talk about the guy thats already level 80 on the right 😳

[kind magnet]

There were clans on day 1 and you have to be level 60 to make a clan.

[turbid prairie]

if the littlebird gets damage to infantry buff its going to be like the fucking nightbird on 2042, keep that shit out of the game and leave it for vehicles

[sick spruce]

Clans were not wiped from the playtests, so those were probably all preexisting.

[pseudo sequoia]

Honestly, the damage the Littlebird does is fine, I was actually quite shocked how quickly people went down... WHEN i could finally get the damn guns on them.

• The crosshair really needs to be a more accurate representation of where you guns are aimed

• I'd learnt to fly in BF4 and Arma 3, and had set my mouse to Yaw and A/D to roll, just what I know. It's easier for me, but there seems to be some form of mouse acceleration enabled (as well as smoothing) which makes it increasingly hard to aim at targets without getting within insta-headshot distance.

• The wonky physics of the thing really don't help, but they're tolerable. Definitely needs work.

My main problem is just aiming it, a slightly larger CoF on the guns would help with that, but over everything it needs the mouse acceleration removed and the ability to adjust/disable smoothing and adjust sensitivity. Physics corrections can come in time.

[elfin arrow]

I honestly think, they need a physics update or an increase in speed or velocity.

And maybe make people heal themselfs in the base.

[tacit pond]

littlebird is already primarily effective against infantry. It takes too long to shoot down a blackhawk, destroy a jeep or even another littlebird. It can be done but in most cases infantry will get out of the jeep, the littlebird will return to base to repair and the blackhawk will just ignore you, drop off its passengers then return to base for repair. You can obviously get kills targeting vehicles but in most cases it needs to already be damaged or for the pilot to be completely incompetent, which isn't THAT unusual. Most of the time kills from attacking vehicles are from managing to hit the infantry inside, not damaging the vehicle.

Littlebird on littlebird combat is kind of dumb as it is atm, if they get the jump on me the only smart choice is to rtb and get the jump on them instead. If I'm having a head on fight with another littlebird it just feels like luck of who manages to snipe the opposing pilot out, so I always duck out until the odds are better.

Littlebirds most effective role is targeting big groups of infantry huddled together

[tacit pond]

My trick with this is to fly as medic, land somewhere far away but make sure its out of a spawnable area and heal myself. But people healing at base would be better, it would also be nice to be able to change class at base without suiciding

[elfin arrow]

then you never had the true pilot experience

[tacit pond]

I mean I've done it, but it just doesn't make sense to me to target that stuff when there are easier kills

[elfin arrow]

If we see a Pilot we scream: Shoot the Pilot, everyone shoots on him and literally explodes the same second.

[tacit pond]

haha

[elfin arrow]

even blackhawks, but those would need the entire team to get shot at

[tacit pond]

Yeah 99% of the time I die while flying is from getting shot out instead of the heli being damaged

[elfin arrow]

Little Bird die pretty easily

[hybrid steeple]

well infantry only have light firearm and RPG to against little bird, that's testing pliot when he get out from fire line

[dense hearth]

mate, you can beam the pilot out 1000x easier than 2042. and if they end up being a lil strong, who cares. It takes 3 minutes for it to respawn and a bunch of people fight over it. They cant go to any of the big fights because they instantly die. They make 0 impact on fights

[wary grove]

How did they get their settings configured so they're not in freelook when they're spooling the miniguns on the littlebird? RMB at the moment keeps you stuck in freelook and you can't press anything else. I could maybe actually kill something if I could actually see where I was aiming instead of being stuck in freelook.

[hexed nymph]

Is it actually 3 minutes to respawn or is that just a guess?

[dense hearth]

its actually 3 minutes

[hexed nymph]

Feels way longer sometimes. Good to know.

[dense hearth]

used to be 5

[hexed nymph]

Damn. Also I completely agree with your take. Its way too easy to be shot out of the pilot seat by infantry. So annoying.

[hybrid steeple]

last night i met 2 nice little bird pilots, little bird is op in the right hand

[kind magnet]

Someone being skilled with something doesn't make it OP.

[hybrid steeple]

my point is bird is not useless

[kind magnet]

Then don't say it's OP in the right hands.

It can be shot down by 1 BTR/LAV round, 1 rocket, or 1 tank shell.

The pilot can be shot out with 1 bullet.

That goes for all the helis.

[hybrid steeple]

i really thinking it's op

[kind magnet]

A few guys being able to get over 50 kills doesn't make it OP.

[hybrid steeple]

i suggested once to take off the guns

[kind magnet]

Your average player won't get any kills.

[hybrid steeple]

50kills is basic man

[kind magnet]

You're on something.

[hybrid steeple]

it's easy to hit 70 80

[kind magnet]

Do it then.

[hybrid steeple]

im speaking the ture

[kind magnet]

Then do it yourself.

[hybrid steeple]

already done......

[kind magnet]

Got a screenshot?

[hybrid steeple]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuP2yw6s6fQ&t=575s not even try hard

[kind magnet]

Either way, a few people managing a lot of kills doesn't make it OP.

[hybrid steeple]

just last night i met a co-pilot is really good too, i get some kills in first 5 mins then let him fly it, and still hit 76-1

3000 rounds 2xminiguns and no overheat is too much fire power

[kind magnet]

You're on Wakistan flying back and forth firing into crowds hoping to hit something. Most of your "kills" are kills counting as assists.

You're so far away you can't even see people to aim at, you just focus fire to wherever you get a hitmarker.

Hardly anyone is even trying to shoot you down because they're busy fighting infantry and pushing the point.

[hybrid steeple]

so you didnt watch it

[kind magnet]

I did, that's why I was able to describe what is happening.

[hybrid steeple]

you wont say that if you watched

[kind magnet]

[hybrid steeple]

how about i upload another footage?

[kind magnet]

You're also level 200 in a server full of level 0-25s.

[dense hearth]

man links a video of him just randomly spraying at nothing hoping people run into it and says they are good 😭

[hybrid steeple]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6hEUvAfzSI

[hybrid steeple]

Thank you for your opinion, but sadly youre just a clown

[sick spruce]

Have any of yall played a LB in any other game? Maybe I'm wrong, but most of you guys complaining just sound like you're not good pilots because you haven't put the hours in.

[dense hearth]

I have over 10k kills in the littlebird and nightbird

[hybrid steeple]

[hybrid steeple]

bf PRO pilot crying he cant farm infantry

[dense hearth]

nobody crything they cant farm infantry, people are saying it feels like ass.

[hexed nymph]

Biggest complaint now is getting shot out of the cockpit. Its way too easy.

The guns really arent that bad just takes some getting used too.

[dense hearth]

dosnt help you dont have access to it in training range

[sick spruce]

To be fair, the thread is called "LB is the most useless thing in the game" lol

which is false

[hexed nymph]

They are adding that

[dense hearth]

hyperoble in the title to get people to click on it, who woulda thought

[sick spruce]

Verbatim quote from OP "Literally you cant do shite with it, I tried it against infantry, it barely doesnt any damage and i cant even aim."

doesn't sound like he was using hyperbole.

[kind magnet]

Yes, I've played quite a few games with helicopters, some of which have Little Birds. Pretty much every single other Little Bird in a game is easier to use despite having more complex movement systems/flight models.

[sick spruce]

Like I said, I may be wrong. But indudge me, what games?

[kind magnet]

Battlefield games, a Ravenfield mod by Hjong Park (I think I butchered that) and a couple older games I don't even remember the names of.

The Ravenfield mod has by far the best/most complex flight model and it's still the most fun to use, but it's not exactly balanced since it's usually used against AI.

It actually has some stuff that some flight sims don't even factor in.

[sick spruce]

Yeah fair enough, I've never messed around in Ravenfield. Most of my flight experience is from the ARMA series, and I know there's a steep learning curve to it. Same thing with the BF games though much more arcade-y.

I don't see this system as being that much different personally, except the flight controls are just even more arcade like and unrealistic. I just personally don't see that as a problem because this game clearly doesn't aim to be a sim.

That's just my two cents however.

[kind magnet]

My issue is just the aiming against infantry.

Also the miniguns doing so little damage.

[sick spruce]

I'm still working on it myself, it's not easy. But I've seen my buddy beaming with it (and now some of the videos posted in this thread), so I know it's possible and that I just need more practice.

[kind magnet]

Games often have a bit of AOE on aircraft projectiles to reduce the skill gap a bit.

[sick spruce]

I think being able to adjust HUD opacity would be a massive help because I find that my tracers, and not to mention targets, are often blocked by the HUD elements.

[kind magnet]

I find that the instant I turn towards infantry I get my head blown off.

Or my tail rotor by a BTR/LAV.

[sick spruce]

In my expereince that means I got too close, or wasn't moving fast enough.

[kind magnet]

I think the hitboxes for humans inside helis are just super broken.

[sick spruce]

I'm also looking forward to when they add it to the practice range, so we can fly around and get more familiar with the controls without needing to worry about being in a game.

[kind magnet]

Earlier I headshot the pilot out of a moving Black Hawk from 690m away.

[sick spruce]

Sure, but I'm also certain that doesn't happen often even if it is possible haha

[kind magnet]

A few minutes ago I got like 5 kills because I dealt 1 damage to a transport LB and then hit the pilot from behind through the bottom of the LB which made him panic and crash.

[sick spruce]

Yeah I've seen that the bottom/back of the LB can just let bullets through to the cockpit which it for sure shouldn't.

[kind magnet]

This may have just been a good shot but considering I was missing people 500m away who were just running diagonally downhill I'm not sure.

[pseudo sequoia]

It might not be so difficult to use if the crosshair was actually where your rounds would land. It's also in desperate need of a slight CoF increase (never thought I'd say that) so they're not literal lasers, and have a more realistic dispersion.

[elfin arrow]

Some People can make 150 kills with the M4 in 1 Round, its OP Infantry is OP

[honest adder]

sorry but the original complaint in this thread is just a skill issue

I'm decent on the BF4/BF2042 little bird and it seems pretty much just as good in this game, outside of the controls feeling a little floaty

my problem is just getting the little bird in the first place, I still haven't managed to figure out how the spawn system works at all

any tips for that?

[sinful zephyr]

Then youve never played 2042 littlebird then, it has rockets as well, making it decent against vehicles andd infantry

[honest adder]

well yeah

AGMS are useful on little bird

[honest adder]

the anti infantry rockets suck though, the miniguns are way better, just harder to master

[sinful zephyr]

at least they are an option

[honest adder]

fair enough yeah

[dense hearth]

5 minutes on base spawns, 3 minutes on point spawns. the only ones with guns have "armed" in their name

so you will just be sitting at spawn screen waiting for it all game, and then get instant beamed by all the infantry players shooting at you lol

I just want a vehicle sensitivity setting, since theres semingly no option for that for whatever reason. 3rd person cam would be nice also.

[kind magnet]

Both of those games have several dedicated AA systems in vehicle and infantry held forms.

Then again the BTR/LAV can 1 tap both helis.

The Battlefield helis are just way more powerful but not as noticeable... which makes them even more powerful.

[dense hearth]

eh, heli's in battlefield, especially 2042 are relatively easy to shut down. if the other team hates you, you will not leave spawn (thanks tor tank)

[kind magnet]

The same exact thing goes for BBR but the helis are less deadly.

[dense hearth]

idk, but the fact that bullets magically shoot you out from underneath / behind is beyond frustrating

[elfin arrow]

I literally never died in those Games, because of People shooting me out of it.

The only thing that happened was another Little Bird shooting me out in a 1v1, but okay.

[green geode]

Dying inside them is simply too easy

[cobalt ravine]

someone tapped me from behind with a mp 443 💀

[hexed nymph]

Same. I got one tapped from 120 meters by a scar while moving……

[tacit pond]

Has anyone ever found themselves killed by c4 while flying about?

[dense hearth]

c4 recon drone?

[tacit pond]

Probably would have heard it?

[velvet dirge]

PREACH

[sick talon]

well i just fly a lot as little bird in bf. so it only take me a while to get used of the aiming. tbh the control here its so much easier, but also a bit weird cause i feel like i am flying a ufo instead of a heli but espically when i try to land. that feel its so damn weird

[green geode]

Also, why is it "hold" to enter, but "tap" to exit ?

[hexed nymph]

This and why is it so hard to find the right spot to look at to even let you in

[green geode]

The little bird is actually impossible to be use effectively and not be a complete waste of everyones time and the teams resources

[wary grove]

This is extremely suspect

[tacit pond]

I didn't want to say it but I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought it

[olive wharf]

"uhm skill issue. soo this game im really good at" - 🤓

[sick shoal]

put 2 ppl with RPGs in it and it isn't useless anymore 😄

[kind magnet]

They're talking about the one that carries miniguns and a copilot who can do nothing.

[honest adder]

idk I'm far from an expert, there far better little bird pilots than I. I'm just saying my own experience with it - the controls seem pretty okay to me.

it could be my skill issue lol, maybe I'm just not good enough to be able to tell

[honest adder]

I do agree this is weird and should consider being changed

[honest adder]

and also this, I swear your hitbox is exaggerated in the pilot's seat or something. the amount of times I get shot out of it compared to how often the vehicle itself is destroyed seems way too high, idk

but the killing power of the miniguns seems just fine to me, as do the controls themselves

[teal grove]

The miniguns are strong but could use a larger beaten zone to both prevent them from being used as a 500m range sniper and to make them not frustrating to use at reasonable range.
This also goes for the blackhawk door guns.

[distant prawn]

This. I'm so confused. I looked through the settings when I first started flying the thing to try and figure out how to disable that, but couldn't find anything. And now I'm seeing someone who clearly found a way to fix that issue, essentially making aiming it 1000% easier.

I thought the freelook was hardcoded into it in a deliberate attempt to make aiming it more difficult, but apparently there's ways around it...

[wary grove]

It seems to have fixed in the latest update

You can actually shoot with left click now

[distant prawn]

Huh. Well that completely changes things. Good to know, thankee.

[median fog]

The standard solution to a problem shouldn't be: just change the DEFAULT control scheme to something you're not used to. It should be: Fix the problem.

[trail spear]

THE DAMAGE OF THE LITTLEBIRD IS A JOKE, I TICKLE THE ENEMY SOLDIERS, WHY USE THE LITTLEBIRD IF WITH THE TANK WITH 3 SHOTS OF THE MACHINE GUN I KILL 1 SOLDIER INSTANTLY?

[kind magnet]

Because using a tank anywhere near infantry is suicide.

[elfin arrow]

Minigun has enough Damage tbh

[finite bear]

lol nobody shooting back, what s this server full of bots? anyone knows you get inside a littlebird , 7 guys are shooting at you lmao

[elfin arrow]

only 7? how about:

[elfin arrow]

average little bird experience

not forgetting this

i know, but still

[molten dagger]

EXACTLY

[median fog]

never trust a blueberry

[kind magnet]

If your vehicle is about to explode and you want to keep it you're better off trying to drive/fly all the way to a repair station rather than getting out and using a repair tool. If you want to heal yourself or reload a weapon, just don't.

[elfin arrow]

Who are you talking to

[hybrid steeple]

btw LB model is updated, added a plate behind the pilot set

[sweet saddle]

Is it a food plate? I often find myself getting hungry while flying.

[kind magnet]

You.

[kind magnet]

The dude stole your helicopter right here because you got out to repair.

[south cave]

I think it needs a buff twords vehicles. It can easily shred infantry and the issue is lack of skill. I'm not saying that to be rude.

I've learned the little bird pretty well and a well placed strafe is enough to kill someone without needing to focus them down.

As for vehicles, I can literally be on target hitting a blackbird or wheeled vehicle and it sure takes its time. Doubt there were engineers on board because it happens far too often. And again I pilot a lot and the dedicated heli engineers are far too rare.

[kind magnet]

It sounds like you're relying on infantry walking into your bullets or just not moving at all.

When I use the Little Bird people actually make an effort to avoid getting shredded, so killing someone in a single strafe is pretty much impossible unless I get a bunch of lucky hits.

[cerulean mist]

its the same for every FPS with flyers

xd

[cobalt dock]

Buff toward vehicles? It uses miniguns. It doesn’t make sense that it would be useful against APC or better.

[kind magnet]

To be fair they are terrible against other helicopters.

If you're attacking another Little Bird you should try to shoot the crew out, if you're attacking a Black Hawk go for the back rotor, the entire crew, or just ram them into the ground.

None of those are really effective for various reasons.

Little Birds can use their speed to escape since aiming at it requires you to be level (making them faster) or above them in the perfect position.

Black Hawks can just take hits because there's no way you shoot them down before they reach base unless the crew is clueless or runs out of possible pilots.

[sick spruce]

No you guys are right. Totally useless, unusable, and underpowered. Not a skill issue in sight, no sir, not here.

[kind magnet]

3 kills! Wow! I was wrong, the Little Bird truly is a force to be reckoned with.

The first kill was you randomly firing at an area where you saw a few people and hoping you were lucky enough to get a hit. Instead you were lucky enough to 1 shot a guy. The second and third kills were both on pilots, who are easier to hit due to the slow and predictable movement. The third guy even flew right up to your miniguns and let you rip him apart.

[kind magnet]

I even mentioned right here that you should go for the crew.

[kind magnet]

And right here that they can be hard to kill unless you're above them. And you were above them.

[kind magnet]

I even mentioned that they can just swap in a new pilot, which they did.

[hybrid steeple]

everything you said is so true👍 👍 👍

[sinful zephyr]

People like this are coping so hard its not even funny, A literal Infantry player has a higher kill potential than you and a higher survivability consistently than its possible for you to have lol

Honestly, Id almost rather they have no weapons at all, than to have something underperforming and useless, at least then people would be using them for transport consistently and only for that, the occasional ramming into buildings ig, Good Bf4 players have scared everyone XD

[sick spruce]

If you wanted higher kill potential and survivability, then hop in the Abrams or T90. I thought video games were about having fun, my fault OG 🤷‍♂️

[sinful zephyr]

if you truly thought that then youd have no problems buffing it, since fun is your priority, rocket pods sure are fun with destructible environments

Just a cheap deflection, hardly fun its hard nerfed creating a small skill cieling

Sure, you can get a few kills, but the way it is now, theres a much harder limit to how much you can do and it wont be able to increase no matter how good you get at flying

[cobalt dock]

Rocket pods in a game with such a high concentration of people is gonna be overpowered no matter how you spin it

[pseudo sequoia]

Said it before and I'll say it again - add a cone of fire to the miniguns and don't make them laser beams. Shouldn't need surgical precision on them, and gives the vehicle and intended range, but make infantry easier to hit at said range.

I feel like any form of AoE damage weaponry on a helicopter would very quickly become very hard to balance. MAYBE 2 pods of 4 rockets each (on each side, like Zuni pods) that aren't specifically great against players, but are good for building destruction and have partial anti-vehicle potential. Ideally not one Littlebird dunking on a tank with a single run, but to 'assist' with the large amounts of infantry based anti-vehicle launchers found in a match. Tank camping at the back? You can't outright kill it, but you can hurt it enough to force it out of the fight temporarily. A bit of balance against the fact that they can tap you out of the sky instantly.

We could also have another form of 'primary' weapon. Instead of miniguns, maybe two .50 cals? Lower RoF, better accuracy, better damage and drop off. Maybe more effective against other helis? Rewards good aim, but missed shots are more punishing. Something to think about. As much as I'd love some 20/30mm underslung cannons, you see what they had to do to them in BF2042... every game I see has to make them unrealisticly useless because of their potential, so much so that they're really never used. Would be the same for this game, so I can't see any point in having them.

[final night]

All vehicles having pinpoint accuracy is fucking stupid. Getting sniped by a tank machine gun from across the map while they sit in the back of their spawn and we can do nothing about it. Fucking fun.

[kind magnet]

Don't forget LAVs and BTRs can tap you out of the sky instantly too.

They 1 hit kill tail rotors.

[mild harness]

Have you tried getting gud? You're not thinking straight. What you probably actually want is separate vehicle sensitivity, since it's very sensitive, practically requiring you to change overall sensitivity (unfavorable) so you can control it better.

What ya'll really need is separate sensitivy settings for air/land vehicles

[teal grove]

vehicles are so shit in this game i dont know why oki added them other than obligation

[cobalt dock]

The tank’s primary machine gun is of pretty regular accuracy, it just doesn’t suffer recoil (because why would it?)
The velocity is too low for it to be very useful at long enough ranges though

[final night]

LOL ur funny xD

[cobalt dock]

The only kills you can get at a decent distance with it are on people who sit still for some reason, if people start evading it’s not possible to predict their motion ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[final night]

Bro stop, you are making me laugh too hard

[cobalt dock]

Your sense of humour is weird.

[final night]

And your sense of balanced gameplay is weird.

[cobalt dock]

I think I’ve died to the primary mg on a tank like once out of like a couple thousand times

It’s definitely not a significant threat

[final night]

Bro.... stop 🤣 I can't.

[honest anchor]

battlefield LB hard splash damage

[kind magnet]

Almost every air vehicle in every game (as in every game not just every Battlefield game) has splash damage for guns.

[pseudo sequoia]

Except it wasn't though, if it was EXACTLY how BF flying was I'd have a much easier time with it.

[cobalt dock]

I personally have never seen that but I guess I don’t play many shooters

Seems weird that they would

[kind magnet]

Most games try to make air/ground vehicles equal threats to infantry so that you must choose between a MANPAD or AT gadget. To make aircraft effective they usually have a bit of AoE on guns, plus they have heavy armament like missiles or bombs. BBR has no MANPADs, AA vehicles, or AA emplacements. Apparently the devs have decided the armed LB must be ineffective because there's no dedicated AA in the game, even though taking out helis is still extremely easy.

[sinful zephyr]

this is what i was trying to say, hes so scared of vehicles being powerful, but thats kinda the point, team vehicles are powerful, if you want infantry to be better at everything then just say so and dont waste the time having vehices at all

I love vehicle play, but its like blueballs at this point, you know theyre shit, and wont be getting better, have no progression or upgrades, and Are constantly countered.

[cobalt dock]

It isn’t ineffective, the skill floor and skill ceiling are just way too far apart. For it to be good takes a huge amount of practise and then it gets 50x more deadly.

[sweet saddle]

seems like some people want a pub stomper but aren't willing to put the work into it

[kind magnet]

Uh, no. I just want it to be as effective as a normal rifle, at the least.

[sweet saddle]

I do worse as Infantry than i do in a Helicopter.

My aim is not as true and quick as it used to be, but flying i do fine.

[kind magnet]

Rifles and helicopters don't require the same skills. If you're a skilled pilot and unskilled infantry, that doesn't mean helicopters are more effective.

[sweet saddle]

Well they are vastly more effective for me.
And i (mostly) don't share the incentive for buffing the Littlebird that is predominant here - it doesn't really need it.

[still tartan]

The only thing the Littlebird needs is to be able to freelook and spin up the guns SEPARATELY

[zealous holly]

Flying in little bird is ez as fuck , lining up shots seems more like luck than anything else .

[kind magnet]

Agreed. All these people sending clips and saying "skill issue" are doing the most basic movements with one of the simplest helicopter flight models I've ever used, firing towards a crowd, and hoping to hit someone. Usually they aren't even being shot at because they're stupidly far away and barely a threat.

[hybrid steeple]

but it still get kills

[kind magnet]

So does my sledgehammer. That doesn't make it an effective weapon or enjoyable to use.

The ideal video game weapon is fun for the user without being frustrating for the victim. Obviously that can change depending on the scenario, but when everyone who does well with the LB is far from the battles, strafing left and right while firing at groups of infantry across the map, that seems like incredibly boring gameplay for pilots and frustrating gameplay for the victims.

It's a game, you should be having fun because the game is fun, not because the number next to your name is big.

Not that it'll be big for most pilots, but hopefully you get the point.

[hybrid steeple]

you can fly straight in group of infantry if you want, that's your choice. Just dont expect you can escape safe

[kind magnet]

Yeah, my options are that or sit in the back of the map relying on luck to get kills. So the LB needs some adjustments.

[hybrid steeple]

good luck then

[sweet saddle]

Try the middle ground.

[kind magnet]

The middle ground to that is spraying from a range they can easily hit you at and still relying on luck to get hits.

[sweet saddle]

Disagree.

[pseudo sequoia]

Absolutely no argument against it though?

[sweet saddle]

"Getting Good" isn't an argumental point i wanted to bring up, but it essentially boils down to it. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Hitting targets isn't based on "luck" and not getting shot is based on your own positioning and knowing when to fuck off. Simple as that.
The well performing Pilots know how to play the Heli to it's strengths while mitigating it's weaknesses.
Know when to attack and when to break off to avoid being killed.

I'd say i'm mediocre at best and noticed that most of my deaths were from when i got too focused on a single target (which lead to me being shot by someone else) or when i became too greedy and overstayed my welcome in a busy area.
It got better once i paid more attention to that.

There is middle ground between staying super far away and spraying and praying for hits and being in somebody's face risking getting turned into swiss cheese.

[pseudo sequoia]

Sorry, but that's the most vague, generic argument I think I've read on this thread so far.

The simple fact is, if you want to get into a range in which you can put the guns to good use, you become an easy target. Especially with the sheer amount of people who can be firing at you at any given time. Also, considering the fact that you can't heal yourself (and don't passively regain health), meaning any round you take SIGNIFICANTLY reduces your survival chance unless you break away from combat for minutes at a time to safely heal.

While flying in the LB does feel okay besides the wonky physics, it's no where near as responsive as titles such as BF that allow you to make quick and easy adjustments to your flight path while still easily keeping guns on target, all while keeping speed (with practise, and the fact that CoF exists on other titles which is my biggest want for LBs in BB). The later part of that point being the thing that most likely results in more deaths - you are genuinely quite slow, and the velocity of most weapons in this game mean it requires very little lead to hit a LB accurately while it's moving at speed.

To the point of it's guns, the crosshair really needs to actually be the point of aim rather than a 'vague estimate', and as I've already said god knows how many times the miniguns should NOT be lasers. They aren't in real life, nor are they in basically any other game. That's basically the biggest reason as to why it's so hard to kill people compared to other titles, amongst other reasons; hitting targets requires pin-point accuracy with a vehicle that really doesn't allow it, while being much further away from targets than you typically are during infantry combat. The only skill in aiming the LB guns is getting them "on target", 99% of the kills from that point come from either:

A) the target is stood completely still
B) the target runs into your LoF
C) there are so many targets in a small space that it'd be almost impossible NOT to get a kill

Infantry movement is much more "sudden", there's almost no inertia and movement is quick which allows players who know how to use their WASD keys to make it much harder to hit them. If you're caught out in the open by a non-braindead LB pilot, you should die. Excluding killing the pilot or the LB with a rocket of course.

Every clip posted in this thread where people are trying to use the "skill issue" argument falls into either A, B or C.

The LB is supposed to be a force multiplier, hence there only tends to be 1/2 per match, and there isn't one given to all 254 players. I'd love for all the people who seem to think it needs no adjustment to show me two games: one as infantry and one as a LB pilot, on the same map, same gamemode, back to back, with them scoring MORE in the LB than they do as infantry.

[kind magnet]

So if focusing on a single targets leads to you dying, what are you aiming at?

Are you just spraying into crowded areas hoping to get a kill?

[kind magnet]

I think the best way to balance the armed LB would be to make the glass bulletproof against small arms (maybe with hidden HP so it'll eventually break if you don't repair it), increase the tail rotor HP so LAVs/BTRs need 2-3 hits to destroy it, add a tiny bit of spread and a very small low damage AoE to the miniguns, and slightly decrease the shell velocity and gun elevation of tanks. Even just a few of these would make the armed LB bearable to fly without going to the extreme of rocket pods.

[hybrid steeple]

well that would make LB become mostly unkillable

[kind magnet]

LAVs and BTRs still 2-3 hit kill, RPGs still 1 hit kill, tanks still 1 hit kill, guns can still hit and kill the pilot from the sides, but sure man, totally unkillable because 1 infantry can't out DPS your dual miniguns in a 1v1.

The guns suck so might as well make it slightly harder to take down than some grunt on the ground.

[hybrid steeple]

i dont mind LB become 3000rounds 2x mini laser gun, flying 170km/h, 4 30mm to kill, 2 30mm on tail to kill, bulletproof at the front, that's fucking awesome

[sweet saddle]

You are misunderstanding what i said there, or maybe i didn't get that across right.
I essentially mean tunnel vision.
Seeing that one slippery guy (repeatedly going in and out of cover) that you just have to kill - at some point it's better to let go, or you risk dying.
Reset. Tunnel vision bad.

[kind magnet]

So you expect people to aim accurately from medium/far range with no magnification, a horrible crosshair that's also covered by the HUD waterline, at infantry, while moving, without getting tunnel vision? Yeah, good luck with that.

[echo snow]

As it stands, the biggest issue is getting sniped out of the plastic thin glass window. That's the first thing that needs to be adressed.

[cobalt dock]

The window should at least offer a flat damage reduction to bullets entering it

Would make snipers the best guns for taking them down, and would make guns like SMGs relatively ineffective which I think is a good idea.

Right now the little bird seems most effective if the pilot is able to perform fast circular motion around their aim point as most players are unable to effectively predict their shots when trying to fire back, but this is really hard to do properly

[ashen root]

heres my opinion regarding this. personally coming from some other simulator games the helicopter controls were and still are perplexing to say the least, i do not know what does it because my brain just gets confused but it is a nightmare to control for me.

in the 60+ hours of playing the game when shooting others and getting shot by a littlebird is is 95% of the time a "minor inconvenience" and a lot of players just ignore the 2 (presumably 7.62x51 miniguns the same calibre as high power sniper rifles) doing less damage than a pistol full autoing at you. it is perplexing to say the least.

my opinion on how to fix it would probably be, these things should be able to cut you in half with a strafe and open up holes in buildings like many pickaxe hits in the game, or you can keep the damage and fire rate the same and make aiming it far better, because right now anyone shooting at you look like a person with 20X the mouse sensitivity unable to contain their inputs.

example video from my experience:

[cobalt dock]

The helicopter controls are pretty simple and intuitive imo, but the physics are not. Almost no intertia

It’s basically necessary to rebind the controls to control yaw and pitch with the mouse to hit well with it, which I think does make it tricky to control

[shell socket]

Same. I've also learned to not get close or hover if I don't want to die.

I would be fine with the Little Bird's weaknesses if there were just more of them on the map.

Ex:

Valley has 2 Blackhawks, 3 tanks, 3 LAVs, but only 1 Little Bird per team. Why?

It's nowhere near as oppressive as the other vehicles and gets shredded easily, so why is there only 1 per team with a 3-4 minute spawn time?

[flint nacelle]

exactly, it can only kill infantry quick.

it takes ages to destroy any vehicle

[flint nacelle]

maybe add dumb rockets to it that do like 5-10 damage to tanks

[shell socket]

While I don't personally mind AT options, the developers probably intended the Little Bird to be anti-infantry.

[cobalt dock]

It’s miniguns, of course it’s not going to do much to armour

[kind magnet]

I don't think the game needs more things that can annihilate tanks. They're already extremely weak in medium and close range which causes them to camp in the back. A helicopter with AP rockets might help with that since it can reach the back more easily, but really it'll probably only be effective when the tank is distracted and can't blow the LB out of the sky in 1 shot.

Tanks far in the back would also have an easier time seeing the LB and the LB would have to travel longer distances to resupply more rockets, giving the tank time to repair and more opportunities to shoot the LB down.

[zealous holly]

Lb is functionally a 2 man transport with pea shooters , if one shoots at me on ground I can generally beam the pilot quite easily. It's an annoyance at best

[blissful stag]

Its really effective in the right hands

[kind magnet]

The Unica is effective in the right hands. You shouldn't need to be top 0.5% and only focus on one aspect of the game (piloting the armed LB) to do well with it.

0.5% is an understatement.

The sensitivity also got fixed so that these guys with 30 FPS don't have a big advantage in the form of lower sensitivity.

[blissful stag]

I think with the default controls it’s really hard to be useful and most people who aren’t already interested in learning probably won’t know to change it. But also not everyone in the game wants to fly at all, and there’s usually only one armed little bird per team so it’s not like a gun where anyone can use it if they wanted to

[kind magnet]

Yeah it's limited to one user per team (if not per lobby) and it's still ineffective unless you play like a total loser and never get shot at by anyone.

They do seem to be making the LB more effective for less dedicated players with the armored glass and increased damage to light vehicles, but that's not as big a buff as is needed.

[cobalt dock]

Managed to get 12 kills in a littlebird… I now consider myself vaguely competent with it

Takes a lot of practise to do anything

[kind magnet]

The LAV and BTR might as well just be dedicated AA at this point, making helicopters worthy of a buff.

Five shots to take down the first one, seven shots to take down the second one. Twelve shots for two helicopters, and only because I missed ten of the shots.

I'm not counting the follow-up shots because the helicopters' fates were sealed before I fired those.

15 rounds fired counting follow-ups, and even then I didn't use the entire belt and may have been able to take out another helicopter with the remaining five rounds if there had been one.

[kind magnet]

The new boat works just fine too, but is significantly more difficult for a few reasons. Driver is seat 1, gunner is seat 3. Driver can be shot out, gunner can't. Waves mess with your aim and you're (obviously) limited by staying in water. HP seems lower, too, but I'm not sure about that.

It'll probably end up like the LAV/BTR and never be used for transport, but differ in that it's also rarely used for it's gun. Basically, I don't predict people using it much. If they do it'll probably be by sitting way out and shooting at helicopters, jeeps, or infantry, because firing at LAVs/BTRs or tanks is suicidal.

Firing at infantry is a bit difficult as well unless they're on a hillside.

You could also hear a drone in that clip, I got attacked by four drones in two minutes of being there. Luckily none of them were competent at all.

Anyways, back to helicopters.

[blissful stag]

I think the little bird being a high skill thing is fine, all air vehicles are kinda like that in battlefield and it’s rewarding when you do learn how to fly it. At the same time in battlefield vehicles as a whole are extremely op and in battlebit they’re swinging the other way with it. I think little bird for the most part is pretty fine now, like it’s hard at the start and the controls should be roll on A&D to begin with but that’s it. I think they’re too easily shot out of the sky by tanks and APCs but I just take that as another design choice to limit how strong they are, since they can be oppressive if they’re too powerful

I don’t like how tanks can shoot down little birds and choppers so easily but that’s because I fly them a lot. And I’m also wary of them being too strong

In some maps like wakistan, where the little bird gets free roam and people bunch up on the bridge, just one attack run can net you several kills at a time

It’s a push and pull though because people don’t realize that anti air is a group effort in this game. A small squad of people shooting back at a little bird means the pilot has to retreat but most people don’t do that

Regardless I think little bird is in a good spot, or at least in the purview of the devs design choices and not too weak by it

[kind magnet]

Most people don't do that because they realize it's a distraction and not a threat.

[blissful stag]

I think as people start making their own servers and people can learn how to fly easier we’ll start seeing better pilots n then after all that we can see if the little bird is too weak or not. I think if you were to buff it in some way, it would just make it so that weak pilots could at least get a few kills before being shot out of the sky

Like making the bullets do slight splash damage or something. But I don’t think it needs that

[sharp warren]

i think the copilot seat of the littlebird should do something
idk what exactly but it serves no purpose at all rn

[blissful stag]

If spotting was better it could help do that from the sky. this is probably a bad idea but I think it would be funny if they could control a spotlight to annoy people on the ground

[sharp warren]

we do a little trolling

[kind magnet]

Hard to expand on it without expanding on other aspects of the game.

You could give them control if the pilot dies or let them use equipment/guns out of the side, but other than that there isn't much.

[shell socket]

I would like it if there were more than 1 Little Bird per team on maps with at least 3 tanks and 3 IFVs per team.

[sharp warren]

they need an option for seperate controls for flying the little bird and the blackhawk since flying both with the same controls is very hard and switching controls every time you enter one sucks

[cobalt dock]

I don’t really find that. They move in the same way

[lunar solar]

This post is aging finely as milk as more and more people learn the little bird

[sharp warren]

yes

[kind magnet]

You mean as the devs gradually update and buff it as the post suggested.

[kind magnet]

The Black Hawk flies like a C-130 and the Little Bird flies like an actual bird.

But yes they are both helicopters.

Allegedly.

[sharp warren]

blackhawk just feels so sluggish to maneuver

i cant put it into words properly

[clever cairn]

all I ask for is to either make the crosshair on LB accurate or let me practice aiming more so I can understand what on earth I am shooting at. At the moment I can't tell if killing infantry is difficult because the guns suck or because my shots are not going where the crosshair is telling me they would.

What comes to the durability, it's extremely difficult to play aggressively because you get killed in an instant no matter what you are getting shot with. Obviously you should get melted if you hover next to infantry but because hitting the pilot is so easy, the TTK should be increased so you won't get killed in just a couple of shots.

Everyone having the ability to kill any LB they can see forces the pilot to either choose to fly in the skybox or to have fun for a couple of minutes and then wait in the spawn screen for a chance of getting to fly again and maybe get a bit better so you will last half a minute more on the next run.

[sharp warren]

the bullets go in the middle of the screen not at thw crosshair

its misleading

[cobalt dock]

they inherit heli velocity though. not quite sure how the crosshair works, think it accounts for bullet movement at a certain distance?

[kind magnet]

The guns are good in a bad way. There's hardly any spread so there's not much room for error in aiming. It's like firing a DMR with very high RPM and no recoil that you can't ADS with and you must be more than 80m from an enemy and moving or you just die, but also your screen is covered by a HUD and moving completely changes where your bullets will go and it feels random but every single bullet is going there so it's not like spread but your movement and aim are linked so you-

Yeah...

[clever cairn]

yeah I'm having WAY more success hitting my targets now that I'm compeltely ignoring the crosshair and either aiming with the w in the middle of the screen or following the bullet tracers

[zealous holly]

LB needs its guns buffed . As I've said before it's an annoyance at best . Even the best of the best pilots are not even concerning.

[cobalt dock]

When people are able to easily get 100+ kills on wakistan with it being very hard to organise any kind of countermeasure to it, people tend to be annoyed

It is just something you basically can’t fight back at.

[zealous holly]

You can snipe the pilot , you can suppress the pilot u can RPG the pilot . All fairly ez to do with a little bit of effort and a half decent eye

[cobalt dock]

RPGs are totally out of the question, sniping is likely the best bet… but almost nobody seems skilled enough to do it because usually not a single person manages in most of the match

[zealous holly]

If u have one squad and are on comms taking down the best of vehicle players is a trivial matter.

[cobalt dock]

If you can organise a heli with an engineer in it to attack the LB you can force it to retreat or eventually kill it if it’s stubborn

[zealous holly]

What do u mean u can't RPG pilot . I have done it more times than I can count. Sniping is definitely the easier of the options yes . But even easier is a full squad shooting at helicopter. Bamboo it's over in mere seconds

[cobalt dock]

You can’t RPG good pilot.

[zealous holly]

Yeah you can m8 , not with an attitude like that you won't tho .GLHF

[cobalt dock]

There are several seconds of travel time and they are manoeuvring in a very unpredictable manner

I’ve never seen it happen but I’ve seen a lot of people try

[cobalt dock]

Try like 60 people doing at it and still failing to do anything significant to it

Which is how it usually goes

[kind magnet]

I've sniped and RPG'd pilots. I'm not a good sniper and barely play the class. I mainly use engineer and have gotten good enough with the RPG to knock out LBs with tandem rounds. Not to mention you can usually just spray an LMG or tap fire a rifle towards a helicopter and kill multiple people without even aiming for them, and both tanks, the LAV/BTR, and the new boat can easily take out helicopters.

[cobalt dock]

The point is good pilots

That is what happens to all the bad ones

The kind where spraying 100 LMG rounds at them ends up doing 5 vehicle damage and nothing to the pilot

[kind magnet]

The "good pilots" strafe back and forth on the opposite side of the map firing into populated areas hoping to hit something.

[cobalt dock]

They hit a very large number of people

[kind magnet]

No, they do not.

[cobalt dock]

That’s how they easily get 100+ games

[kind magnet]

They only get lots of kills because they're constantly firing towards enemies.

And they never die because nobody is bothered by them.

[cobalt dock]

Everyone is bothered by them when they’re getting killed by them because the wakistan bridge makes it very hard to defend against them

If something doesn’t stop firing at you it’s hard to not pay attention to it

[kind magnet]

If only there were something you could place between you and the LB to not take a stray round to the forehead...

[kind magnet]

It's pretty easy when they're missing 99% of the shots.

[cobalt dock]

The guns are very accurate, but yes you need to build cover

[cobalt dock]

Then they’re a really bad pilot

[kind magnet]

Those are the kind of people you're calling good pilots though.

[cobalt dock]

…it really is not

The biggest component of skill to it is being able to maintain accurate fire at longer ranges

[kind magnet]

The people getting over 100 kills just hold left click and hope someone dies.

[cobalt dock]

That is why they do well

The evasion part is pretty easy but meaningless if you have to be close

[kind magnet]

No, it's not. They do well because everyone ignores them because they aren't worth the distraction.

[cobalt dock]

In my experience that is very much not the case

[kind magnet]

There are basically three strategies for LB pilots right now:

Circular strafing at close range, which is difficult and extremely dangerous but pretty effective

Sit in the back of the map strafing left and right while holding down the trigger and facing a populated area, not very effective but there's almost no risk and it's easy

Trying to line up individual targets without evasion, suicidal but somewhat effective with a mid-level difficulty

By effective I mean in terms of TTK.

[cobalt dock]

How effective they are depends on skill ¯_(ツ)_/¯

If you can hit from further away you can afford to fight from further away

[kind magnet]

The people going 100-0 are the ones doing the least skilled strategy.

[cobalt dock]

It requires more skill than the others to perform

[kind magnet]

Not at all, anybody can strafe left and right while holding LMB and facing the enemy.

[cobalt dock]

The best one I’ve seen took 1-2 seconds to beam anyone not behind cover from quite some distance away

Made it quite tricky to shoot back at them

[kind magnet]

On, let me guess, a Wakistan bridge push, where all the enemies are coming through a narrow choke point with no natural cover while being completely demolished by defending infantry.

[cobalt dock]

Wakistan bridge yeah. Not sure about the last bit, but the LB’s presence helped the enemy team majorly

Map design favours it

[kind magnet]

You seem to be interpreting the LB firing at the enemy as them singlehandedly stopping an enemy push with no help from infantry, which is never the case.

[cobalt dock]

No, was firing at my team

[kind magnet]

From the pilot's POV you'd be the enemy.

[cobalt dock]

It killed great amounts of people which works as suppression quite effectively

Killed me like 2-3 times just because I was firing hundreds of LMG rounds at it :p
Which had worked before, didn’t work on this one

[kind magnet]

You could probably get more kills with a single suicidal attack with C4 than you would with the LB in most situations.

[cobalt dock]

If you’re talking about me personally then perhaps

I usually don’t get many kills with it

[kind magnet]

Just in general.

C4 is very powerful and easy to use, but not many people do use it for combat because it usually results in you dying. They decide dying hurts their KDR too much and instead of dying with 10 C4 kills they die with 3 gun kills.

People clump up on the bridge, especially when there are medic involved. Throw a single C4 over a sandbag while prone and you can kill so many without even exposing yourself.

[cobalt dock]

Is this supposed to still be related to the discussion

[kind magnet]

The LB looks more glamorous and stands out though so it gets the credit.

[cobalt dock]

It gets more kills than almost everyone on the ground can

[kind magnet]

Yes, I'm saying C4 that can be equipped as a gadget by anyone is more effective than the LB that can be flown by one person per team at most.

[cobalt dock]

On wakistan that’s a big issue

Only one LB means you can’t contest it with another, which is the most reliable way to fight them

[kind magnet]

The most reliable way to fight them is by getting in a ground vehicle and one-tapping them out of the sky while they can do nothing to you.

Oh and it's not just ground vehicles now, it's the boat as well.

[cobalt dock]

A tank could do that but it would take a lot of practise first since it’s not rapid fire. You’d have to already know how to predict the target accurately

APCs are kinda out of the question, it’s a skill issue if the pilot dies to them even outside of waki

[kind magnet]

APCs can fire rapidly and still one-tap.

Tank shells have a high velocity and little drop.

Well I basically said the same thing twice there.

[cobalt dock]

Whenever I’ve piloted them, APCs have been a lower threat to me than random infantry

[kind magnet]

They probably ignore you because most people don't realize they can kill you with one successful hit.

[cobalt dock]

Also it’s generally like a 4-tap on them

Not sure about if it hits the tail rotor but I’ve never been one shot by them

[kind magnet]

Uh, no, the tail rotor kills in one hit.

I've posted clips of it.

[cobalt dock]

It is yet to happen to me

Once an APC got 3 hits on me because I didn’t notice it was there and I survived, that’s about all my experience with being hit by them in an LB

[kind magnet]

.

[kind magnet]

.

[cobalt dock]

That can work when they’re not evading :)

[kind magnet]

.

Do you plan to evade constantly?

[cobalt dock]

You have to

I’m not that good at it as I tend to mess up and have some periods where I stop moving to change direction

But some people don’t have that problem

[kind magnet]

The only people who don't have that problem are the people who strafe back and forth 30m from their safe zone.

Even they have to stop moving to change direction, it's just not a problem because they never get shot at.

[cobalt dock]

If anyone is skilled enough to hit anything from their spawn zone then I’d be surprised

[kind magnet]

Again, it's not skill, it's 12,000 rounds of 7.62x51mm per minute into a highly populated area.

[cobalt dock]

You really can’t kill people with luck like that

[kind magnet]

Actually, from looking at a video it's more like 1,200 RPM in-game.

They fired 72 rounds in ~3 seconds, so that's ~1,400 RPM. Pathetic compared to an actual LB.

Actually that's just pathetic compared to pretty much anything.

[cobalt dock]

Games always lower RPMs for things like that

Mostly for simplicity as firing multiple bullets per tick can be awkward

[kind magnet]

The Vector has a fire rate of 1,200 according to the wiki.

[cobalt dock]

Minimum 60hz servers so you could go to 3600 without having to code anything else in

[kind magnet]

More like balance, you could easily get around this with some trickery.

Not that the balance is any good.

[cobalt dock]

You can get around it, it’s just a little more work that the devs probably didn’t bother with

Some games you just fire multiple bullets per tick, which looks identical to a lower RPM