Buff pistols.

[limpid dove]

thats it, from my combined 20hr of gameplay, felt all the time that it is way better hiding and reloading and possibly dying then to pull my secondary, in which case i would 100% die becouse they are so bad.

[pseudo quarry]

For a time at least pistols had some of the best DPS around. I havent kept up with how that's changed over the play tests though.

[river yoke]

I think it's the armor system that makes TTK feel wrong at times.

[pseudo quarry]

Fwiw if I'm up against a BR I can generally out DPS someone using a pistol. Though SMGs still beat all.

[daring token]

Yeah the pistols are honestly terrible

I find that hipfiring them gives decent results at least I can see what I'm shooting at that way

but still they pull slow and have very small ammo pool you might aswell commit to a fast reload %90 of the time

[exotic token]

Reloading is (NOT) faster than swapping to your sidearm

[daring token]

Doesn't matter pistols make up the time difference by being dogshit weapons

I think the only good pistols are probably the hand cannons

[covert ingot]

Pistols do need a buff I agree, they also need the camo masteries dropped from 3,100 kills -> 1,500 kills for pistols

[exotic token]

I should clarify Plush, I would just being a memester, there's really not much point to using pistols rn

[river yoke]

On the note of hipfire, does BB fire randomly from a cone or from your muzzle? I noticed the hip sway animation has the same bad implementation as insurgency and rising storm.

[exotic token]

from muzzle but i think the horizontal recoil does things

[river yoke]

RIP

Then it's worth complaining about the hip sway animations. The way it looks ahead based on camera rotation and doesn't try to gravitate towards the center screen.

[undone dune]

pistol used to be stronger but after the headshot damage mult. was changed, they become kinda weak (even the revolver dont 1 shot in the head at point blank (deal 71 dmg)

[regal pelican]

Revolver is probably the worst out of all of them currently

If one of your shots gets eaten by armor, you need to hit 3 shots total. That is a death sentence.

I feel like low capacity handguns like the Revolver should just pierce armor

[narrow valley]

I using glock on beta test and it was fine. Not using pistol much now cause I want to grind for unlock. So maybe get better pistol will help.

[exotic token]

not a realistic game and all but i'm gonna be that guy, modern military armor basically eats every pistol caliber like a fat american kid getting mcdonalds

There probably does need to be some slight adjustments to the armor stuff ngl or at least weapon balancing just to give things a little bit more oomph and variety so more weapons are more viable without having to super duper sweaty tier or some shit

[broken horizon]

Have to agree, the only viable pistol is Glock because of it's fire rate

[alpine path]

Pulling them out should be way faster, especially for classes that rely on them like recon

[narrow valley]

We have that but it is on assault class only

[exotic token]

not that it matters because pistols are kinda dog water

[alpine path]

Imagine being able to do some rapid 1-2 combos close to mid range with sniper+revolver 🤤

[narrow valley]

Having the clock really help cause it have really good ttk at close range

[daring token]

I don't think anyone will ever realistically play assault over medic though. If the game had auto hp regen or some optional self-heal consumable to pick over C4 I could imagine myself maining assault but otherwise absolutely pointless class.

[fallen moss]

I want to be able to run pistol as primary, and be able to carry a lot of ammo for it.

[river yoke]

Why doesn't it? It's not paced like squad, you die so often it's faster to respawn than seek healing

[narrow valley]

there are people that choose other class than medic though. the extra reload or swap help alot for assault to get more kill. if they die they just respawn.

[proud goblet]

I think its first game i played where reloading is faster than switching to pistol.

[daring token]

And those people more often than not underperform

I don't see assault players going on regular 20+ killstreaks and if they are they're probably taking forever to not die because I have to scroll down to see them on the scoreboard

Thats how irrelevant it is

Only exception I can think of is engineer because heat rockets are OP and can be spammed from safety

''Just die'' is peak loser mentality and this is what keeps you bad at games

If I can choose between dying and not dying based on my class choice alone obviously I'll choose the class that will stay alive

[narrow valley]

score board sort by score and medic is excellent at that. i literally have match top 3 with 6 kills and 62k point from ress and heal alone

[daring token]

Its also excellent at killing things

and outsustaining every other class

[narrow valley]

It actually depends on the gameplay and match-up. If they not catch support off guard then my money will be on that support.

Support armor soaking so much damage make them have better chance at killing medic.

[daring token]

If you're getting flanked commonly by supports you're doing something terribly wrong, they're the slowest class

[narrow valley]

And about assault the point of the class is to flanking enemy if you can kill without getting shot back much

Who said anything about get flank by support

[daring token]

Then how do you lose?

[narrow valley]

I said 1 on 1 medic not able to flank

Support armor make medic gun have longer ttk on support while mg36 still can have lower ttk on medic

[daring token]

Its completely irrelevant

you have the superior guns

you aim and move faster

You might also just shoot limbs and ignore armor

Support is most dangerous when they're already in ADS ready to beam at your location but its really, really difficult for them to be in an advantageous position because they're FAT

Maybe the new LMGs change that a bit I havent yet tried but the old two are kind of meh

[narrow valley]

Ok mg36 is up there in top tier meta guns what you mean superior gun

[daring token]

The L85 looking thing lacks punch and m249 is very very strong but its unfortunately also very slow

Also for some reason bipod is a complete meme

[narrow valley]

Mg36 have the same ttk with kriss

And support have way better armor

[daring token]

that doesnt mean anything when you're slow

The TTKs are fast enough that whatever extra HP armor gets you is made irrelevant to peekers advantage

[narrow valley]

And guns this game have pretty much pinpoint accuracy with laser hip fire

Who need ads when you in close range

[daring token]

Dude, you can live in your fantasy land where supports beat medics

[narrow valley]

The only way medic could win is fire first or caught support of guard

[daring token]

I don't have the mental energy to educate a playerbase this big I'll just keep playing medic and let it be someone else's problem

I've seen this tape 50 times before

[narrow valley]

Yeah keep it that way because this side track talk already long enough

[storm storm]

I don't really have a problem getting kills with pistols if I can get it pulled out in time. My problem is how slow it is to reload them.

[exotic token]

hold R to fast reload

(I wish it was double tap i am going to see if i can rebind it to that later)

[daring token]

feel the same way tbh but I guess I'll have to get used to it

I dont like holding buttons for actions

[calm shuttle]

Sometimes i kill 5 people just to die because i've choose to try to kill an enemy Support, damn it, they have too much shields. ahhahahaa

Not just pistols, maybe revolvers too. The Unica have low damage for a weapon that's both big (for a sidearm) and slow.

[river yoke]

POV: You shot a support with a pistol

[exotic token]

god, what a goood fucking movie

[river yoke]

If they just give the support glowing red eyes they can double his HP for all I care.

[cold stump]

just use the deagle

[sturdy dirge]

Killed around 10 people today by swapping off my main weapon that had no more bullets, to my pistol, who only has a red dot. I believe you have a skill issue

[idle folio]

I believe the pistols are pretty fine. They seem God awful, but I was able to snatch a few kills in emergency situations. Their damage isn't too bad, DPS is rather good, although clearly weaker than rifles which is expected.

I think what most people dislike about pistols is that they feel very clunky. Myself, I rarely find a situation where I have enough time to swap then dump lead. Might be because of the slower pace of the game, but I would like swapping time for basic pistols to be much better so their strength can be how fast you swap to them. That would solve their seemingly weak status imo.

Balance wise, pistols are kinda skewed. Glock 18 is the easiest to use and definitely the best CQC pistol. It has no competition though so that may explain its dominance.

UNICA and Deagle have a fair fight in my eyes. UNICA shoots faster and does good damage while Deagle deals with higher recoil and a worse rate of fire in exchange of one shot headshot, better velocity, better accuracy, and a bigger magazine. UNICA is better for CQC fighting while Deagle excels at being a baby DMR. Only issue for heavy pistols is RSH, which is basically a complete downgrade over UNICA which sucks because RSH is badass.

The basic pistols are pretty underwhelming, not due to a lack of power, but because they have no real upside. When comparing the basic pistols, MP 443 wins by a landslide because they all take 4 shots to kill and MP 443 shoots the fastest. It also has the best reload time, accuracy, and velocity, so it wins in CQC and LRC. USP and M9 don't exist for this reason alone, so I see the complaint.

I would buff M9 to be a 3 shot since all heavy pistols two shot currently and rebalance USP and MP 443 to make MP 443 the better firerate and reload gun while USP is the better mobility and ranged gun.

After that, I'd make all basic pistols swap faster so they have a leg over the other pistols.

I forgot to say this, but MP 443 also has the best recoil stats theoretically as the Vert recoil is negligent while Hori recoil is literally nonexistant. Yet another reason to not use USP and M9.

Ok sorry for typing so much, had a lot of thoughts to share.

[strong orchid]

TL;DR Pistols stats are shitty, M9 Beretta fire rate is so bad there's no reason to use it than starter one (all pistol is too bad, no reason to use any except high fire rate ones)

[fallen moss]

I need to be able to carry more magazines for pistols I'd even trade it for less primary weapon magazines.

[hasty crown]

Has anyone else noticed the fact that swapping to your pistol shifts your aim up? Like some sort 'bump' when you get it out causing the need to reaim or have the enemy be out of view when you ADS... might have been mentioned before, but it's a long thread lol.

[daring token]

Yeah I notice this a lot while bolting

[spiral hemlock]

RSH vs Unica
Same Damage, 80 Levels between them, RSH gets a sliver of Light Armor Pen, has 1 less bullet, the same bullet velocity, Higher Vertical recoil, worse fire rate, worse running speed and the same damage fall off.
RSH vs Deagle
Lower Damage, 20 levels LATER, less armor pen, more vertical, horizontal, and first shot recoil, less accuracy, 0.10 more fire rate, lower muzzle flash, and a slower reload.

How does a gun with a larger bullet, and a longer barrel have worse damage/velocity stats. And why would you wait 80 levels for a downgrade from the unica?

The math aint there chiefs.

[hot depot]

The only time i use semiautomatic pistol is to finish someone off

Heck even handcannon struggles against exo support

[mellow quail]

for reference this is the round the RSH fires

12.7x55

and this is .50 AE

i wonder what gun should do more damage 🤔

[spiral hemlock]

If anything I'd bump RsH damage to deagle level but extend the damage fall off. Since the only way to go higher on damage by any significant degree is to make it one shot to the chest and everyone will hate that. Unless they wanna nerf the deagle a few points. 85 for it 95 for RsH?

shrug

[mellow quail]

rsh should be 90 with higher damage range

[spiral hemlock]

Or could keep it lower 75/80~ with better armor pen and velocity than the Deagle. Actually make it a choice between the two of armor pen vs damage

There's several ways to do it. It just absolutely shouldn't be worse than the Unica. Lol

[mellow quail]

the gun should not have lower ballistics than the deagle in any way shape or form.

lmfao

to be clear it also uses the rounds on the left.

[hasty crown]

I'd be very surprised if you managed to chamber those 3 rounds on the right into the RSH's cylinder...

[mellow quail]

they are too long

those are for the VKS

[hasty crown]

Aye, that was my point lol - I'm not disagreeing either way, I was VERY surprised to hear how weak the RSH actually was. 80-90 damage sounds about right for it's recoil and RoF, though it's a hard one to judge without testing

[mellow quail]

yea i was shocked too

[spiral hemlock]

Least I'm bad. And slow at ranking maybe it'll be fixed by the time I unlock it

[hot depot]

I think the main problem i just realized is that some of these gun suppose to have armor damge

now what?

[dense notch]

Yuppppp absolutely agree with this post!

[celest portal]

we def need a pistol buff, they are borderline useless rn

[sturdy mortar]

With the TTK of rifles and SMGs pistols are useless

[thick bridge]

Unica feels ok from what I tried so far, but yeah, the starting pistols feel weak sadly, BF3 had the same issue, you had to run the hand cannons to be viable.

[hasty crown]

It's great until you hit armour and your TTK doubles.

[hazy falcon]

I think that actually just might be a skill issue, the mp 443 has 25 dmg and 700 rpm (assuming you tap that fast) they have no recoil and almost instantaneous ads even then the big boy pistols 1 tap heads

[hasty crown]

Just add to this, more pistol ammo would be greatly appreciated, at the very least a heavier belt for 2+ extra mags

[thick bridge]

I saw a lot of complaints about armor; if it's hit box based, I think that's mostly okay if it is technically possible to hit non-armored areas, although given the pace of the game in practice, I can see where people are coming from. Likewise I'm okay with non-linear damage/TTK concepts based on player performance, but again, if it's not actually testing the player's ability to hit non-armored areas in a consistent practicable way like headshot (faceshots?) work, then I guess it should be reworked.

Part of this is also that I saw similar complaints in CoD and I just can't take feedback from CoD players seriously because they can't even handle footsteps in their games.

[hasty crown]

At the very least (And I mean LEAST), armour in CoD was basically all-or-nothing, it protected all areas until it broke, and then no longer gave additional protection anywhere. A much simpler system (Because you know... CoD) but it was consistent and understandable, and didn't mean you had to go for arm shots to max out your TTK without risking hitting a plate.

It's a tricky one, honestly, but I still feel it's far too inconsistent. Running around with the Unica yesterday which is supposed to benefit from a 2 hit kill at close range, you know, compensated by it's massive recoil, slow RoF and low ammo count? The fact that you can't reliably make use of that just makes it all feel a bit too clunky.

[thick bridge]

I'm still learning a the mechanics but I assumed you can face shot with it.

As a sort of 'counter example', the revolver in BF3 was crazy strong and "easy".

[hasty crown]

You can, I don't think it's a 1-hit kill though AFAIK, I haven't checked it's damage numbers. Either way, the face is a much smaller hitbox compared to most games as now a lot of it is protected by a helmet... I'm not quite THAT good accuracy wise lol

[thick bridge]

Also does M9 and MP433 feel like the fire rate is inconsistent? I swear it doesn't always fire the same way.

[thick bridge]

Neither am I lol, but it does become a muscle memory thing.

[hasty crown]

No, this is another problem of mine, RoF seems to be hard-capped on all semi-auto weapons, which means if you miss-time your clicks you end up firing slower than it's actual RoF. I believe most games (Like CoD) compensate for this by 'queuing up' your next click as long as you did it within a few milliseconds of the last shot or something

[thick bridge]

I'm also not big on 1 shot design in fps games at all, I don't like that style of balance and prefer reactionary balance. Attrition however....I do like, which can lead to 1 shots but that's more up to the player's own playstyle, but some random that clickity clicked their sniper rifle and got the 1 tap.

[hasty crown]

I can't prove that specifically, I'm no developer, however the fact I can spam fire a weapon in other games AT their respective RoF but can't in this game tells me somethings not coded right

[thick bridge]

Ohhhhh ok, hm. Well, I guess that's practicable at least. If it actually works I'm maybe fine with that, shot cadence I already like for recoil so I guess firerate works too.

[hasty crown]

Honestly, a lot of my feedback just revolves around reducing the 'clunkiness' of certain aspects of the game, especially being as fast paced as it is. Reload times, weapon swap times, RoF issues, armour inconsistencies etc etc. None of it is particularly gamebreaking, but you start noticing it a lot more the more time you put into it. Just hoping they take their time to go through all the feedback and make some sense of it.

[thick bridge]

I do like devs trying different things, but the arena shooter pace is pretty bizarre compared to everything else, although right now the biggest thing I think for me is adding vaulting sounds. You can already teleport around with vaulting but having it be silent is basically ninja dragonballz, which is hilarious, but also super cheesy.

And specifically I mean vault timing where you end up seeing someone just suddenly inside a room because their model half clipped through the wall, but that part is barely visible. I'm fairly certain I've done it and seen it done. I assume successive multivaulting also looks kind of weird on maps where you can just go vault to vault with very little delay between.

[hasty crown]

Vault sounds would be good - I'd like to hear footstep sounds increased a tiny bit, I don't mean Warzone or Tarkov style, I just mean "Someone entered the room behind me" kinda loud

[narrow valley]

Afaik only Deagle able to 1 tap head. Cause pistols have insanely low headshot multiplier of 1.2x

So for unica and stuff you better body shot for the same ttk but bigger hit box

[slow umbra]

default pistols are good

can get 2-3 in a single clip with headshots + it reloads super fast

sure its basically useless anything remotely long range but what do you want a pistol to do? It's supposed to be a last resort thing rather than an alternative

[hot depot]

Not take 6 shot to kill someone who is half health and full armor

I cab understand body armor

BUT HELMET????

Anyways

As someone who rush alot in the game

I perfer reloading my primary weapon while running like a druggy chasing a car
Then switch to my secondary due to how useless it is honestly

even unica

Its good but gosh if the enemy have a helmet its all over

[hazy falcon]

aim slightly lower

[narrow valley]

Heavy armor only have 43 hp, exo is 65 hp but only support can use. Half health is 50 hp so for total of 93 for most class. It surely wont take 6 bullet to kill if you 25m- for MP433

cause MP443 already deal 25 damage under 25m

FYI MP443 have the same dps as ACR or UMP-45 25 damage 700 rounds per mins

only if you can click mouse that fast though

but some mouse have click macro build in so pistols is not really that bad at close range just rip anyone have to manual click

[spiral ridge]

Unless you're 5 feet away, pistols arent really effective at all in my personal opinion

[thick bridge]

There is a weird spread drop-off or something isn't there?

As in it seems like bullets may not even hit at a certain distance, but I'm not sure about that.

I'd like to think you can still snipe heads with heavy pistols...but I don't know.

[spiral ridge]

yeah it feels like a pee shooter

[hasty crown]

I think that's more to do with their insanely low bullet velocity

[narrow valley]

Pistols just have lowest velocity so it feel like shit when shooting it. A velocity buff might be good.

[worn junco]

I would like to see pistols buffed a bit. The m9 really does feel like you are throwing spitballs at people

[hot depot]

I shot someone with a full Glock to the head
They didnt die 😭

[narrow valley]

there hit reg problem with this game so maybe that

[hot depot]

We legit locked eyes

No way that was hitreg

[narrow valley]

because alot of times i use the glock i kill just fine

[hot depot]

Extended mag?

[narrow valley]

base mag is enough to get 1 to 2 kill

per reload already

from beta test but there no change to it so it still apply

https://youtu.be/fFXVO4mN5WM?t=227

[thick bridge]

Hit registration issues often mean that what is happening on your screen, you the client, is not what is happening on the server, which may also mean that another client is having a different experience. This means that you may think you are synced up with someone else's actions, but they actually were already in the process of hitting you. This is often just called "hitreg" and there are many potential scenarios, often all implied as possible causes of an inconsistent gameplay experience.

[hot depot]

Barely seem to happen with my primary
Gonna test this

Only time i see hitreg acting weird is holding down corners or hipfiring

[thick bridge]

It's not what you do in the game, it's server related

I mean, sure if there is a server issue then there are ways you detect it on your end, but it's just a common issue related to server hardware, networked clients and game optimization

[narrow valley]

There a package loss issue happen sometime that eat up your bullet. You should hit but all those bullets not count and you deals 0 damage.

[pseudo sedge]

Pistols in this game are like 2x less effective than any battlefield title I've played and that's because of 2 things

Semi Auto RPM lock (so that people cant macro their semi auto to become an auto)
Armor

Armor didn't exist in other battlefields, so adding it here without buffing pistols is essentially nerfing pistols, on top of that the semi auto RPM lock is ABYSMAL compared to battlefield- you could easily kill 2-3 people with semi-auto firing if you had the drop on them in battlefield. In Battlebit you'd be LUCKY if you put 3 shots in your opponent before they turned around to blast you

Pistols are TERRIBLE

[thick bridge]

Yeah, ultimately it just leads to never getting unlocks for weapons that are just bad by design, unless you want to intentionally play less optimally which I guess when you do succeed you are outplaying the meta, but I've never understood why designers make weapons intentionally bad. Most players just don't think like that.

[narrow valley]

FYI pistol velocity so low that most rifle bullets will hit you almost twice before pistol bullet hit the enemy for the first time

That why it feel like shit sometime

[pseudo sedge]

Quote me it's easier to get kills with sledgehammer than it is to get kills with M9

[versed musk]

not wrong

[fallen moss]

you might be right.

[pseudo sedge]

me and I know some people have the 400kill skin

[wraith hamlet]

pistols are kind of supposed to be your go-to option when reloading is just too slow
but in bb pistols are an ass to get atleast some use from, because switching to a pistol is way slower than a quick reload

[hallow karma]

i remember Doki saying that this is intentional

handguns are a last ditch weapon not intended to be reliable and such

though maybe this is mandela

[hasty crown]

Not gonna lie, that's some pretty terrible reasoning...

[hallow karma]

it is how it is
and to me handguns are fine weapons
a little undertuned but I feel like a king when I pop someone with them
30 damage at 300 something rpm is still 30 damage
aim for the pelvis and you'll bypass armor too
or if they're just stupid you can spam 9mm at them until they fall over

I do wish for improved damage on the USP though

[ivory crow]

No, hipfire in this game is not RNG. It shoots exactly where your gun is pointing, but your weapon isn't stiff when you look around.

When you come out of ADS or a sprint, your weapon will aim dead center horizontally (vertical is affected by vertical angle). Turning in any direction will offset your aim towards said direction from the center. For example, turn right, and your gun will be aiming rightwards from the center.

To visualize this, find the center of your screen and mark it using tape or an overlay. Attach any laser attachment, and look around at a flat wall that is perpendicular towards you.

---

I should have kept reading because someone already answered lmao.

[river yoke]

It's the same awful system Rising Storm 2 and insurgency use.

• The sensitivity is precise but inconsistent. Turning in response to mouse input at (say twice) your camera turn speed, until it abruptly turns at camera turn speed onec it reaches the view bounds.
• Complete lack of intuitive sense of where your gun is pointing. You don't stare at your feet to walk, you don't stare at your hands to hipfire. It's called proprioception. Obvoisly I can't feel my game avatars hands. The only inprecise sense of their orientation I have is the camera itself.

[ivory crow]

I prefer it over RNG hipfire, but I personally would prefer if it was either always dead center or if there was a hipfire marker like when you're using a minigun (someone that will never happen).

[river yoke]

Oh the minigun crosshair? The one that flickers invisible due to aliasing? That crosshair? The one that shakes around like a mother fucker?

[ivory crow]

It's better than nothing lmao.

[river yoke]

I would prefer nothing.

[ivory crow]

So, no hipfire at all?

[river yoke]

No no no.

[ivory crow]

No dead center hipfire?

[river yoke]

Like minigunwise, how do you aim one of those? Put your eyes on the target, hand eye coordination, walk rounds on target.

Theres a laundry list of problems with the minigun camera though...

[ivory crow]

They have the marine helmets from Halo with the holographic HUD.

Unfortunately, those are only reserved for minigun gunners.

Hahahaha

[river yoke]

Like IRL? They ever get like apache helmets?

[ivory crow]

Nonono, I jest.

No idea how they would actually use them irl except for using sights or accuracy through brute force lmao.

[river yoke]

Anyway, off topic. What I hate about the hipfire mechanic, is a problem sim shooters are rithe with. Where they add something to increase realism, but like QWOPs take on realism, and it makes the game have a less realistic feel as a result.

[ivory crow]

I just don't like that modern day shooters have a hard-on for ADS and the inverse for hipfire.

I prefer aimsway over RNG. At least I can still use the laser sight to see exactly where my gun is pointing and I don't have the displeasure of seeing my bullets go anywhere but where the laser is.

[river yoke]

But the implementation is the problem.

[ivory crow]

But I would prefer as you said, nothing at all.

What kind of soldier can't turn around without keeping their weapon stiff to their shoulders?

[river yoke]

The aimsway animation is driven by visual feel of a guy running with a gun in his hands, there's. Actually, I don't even think it looks good. The animations, not the spraycones, you see in cod when walking, turning, ects with your gun at your hip both look and feel much better.

[ivory crow]

I don't know how animations can be improved, but I do think the current animation set does subtly showcase the angle change.

https://youtu.be/8VNwTb7xgEE?t=01m00s

I don't play much CoD, but if the animations are better at showcasing sway, then I'll just have to take your word for it. @river yoke

[river yoke]

it's free you don't even have to play the actual game. Just go into the shooting range.

[ivory crow]

Yeah, but then I have to download CoD.

[river yoke]

yeah, that is pretty unfortunate

But honestly, the entire reason I still have it installed is to load into the shooting range and compare the perfection of their systems to other games. I don't really care for contracting brain rot by actually playing the game.

[ivory crow]

Ahahahaha
That's fair.

A friend and I are considering playing it again just because of their implementations of riot shields.

But that's a different story for a different time.

[river yoke]

But...
In battlebit, your gun moves to the edge of the screen based on mouse displacement, and it stays there. In cod, it moves towards the edge based on turn speed, and then it comes back to center when you stop moving.
There's also a gentle random wandering of your unsteady hands.

[ivory crow]

Having it only offset when you're actively turning would be an interesting change.

[river yoke]

Technically, additional rotation in response to mouse delta input would produce a negative feedback loop where correcting the aimpoint creates more things to correct for. But since your bullets fly center screen, it adds the desried visual feel without causing problems.

(Funilly enough, BB has this during ADS, though your gun lags instead of leading in the turn direction, which is similarly bad)

and in ADS, your crosshair overrides your center screen as your percieved point of focus.

[ivory crow]

Can you elaborate on this in layman's terms?

[river yoke]

When aiming down sights, your camera turns slightly ahead of the crosshair, which chases the center of screen as best it can.

Your brain would normally be focused on putting the center of screen on the target as best it can, but the crosshair has a stronger influence on your brain than vaguely where it thinks center screen is. So you focus on that. So you turn right until the crosshair is on target, since it's behind the center screen when you let go, it keeps moving right until it gets there, dragging your aim off target as your soldier attempts to aim where he thinks you're trying to aim.

[ivory crow]

Is this when you're switching to ADS or during ADS?

[river yoke]

purely during ADS, unrelated to hipfire

[ivory crow]

So you aim, your center screen moves, and then your gun moves to catch up.

Yeah, that's kind of ass.

[river yoke]

welcome to battlebit

Cod has a very similar system for animating ADS system.

but...

You actually control the aimpoint, and instead center screen chaces the crosshair. (only during ADS) It's very subtle, only enough to make it feel like your gun sways as you turn.

But basically, the complete inverse of battlebit

[ivory crow]

Are there any threads discussing hipfire or ADS mechanics here?

[river yoke]

yes, but it was downvoted to hell because the guy who opened the thread couldn't speak english and everyone either thought he was talking about something completely different, or an elitist

[ivory crow]

Either I no longer have permissions to make threads or the limit is full, so I cannot do anything there.

I've gone offtopic for quite some time, so I'll just say this:

Why does the Desert Eagle have the same run speed as an assault rifle?

In what world is a heavy pistol heavier than SMGs and as heavy as an M4?

[river yoke]

The gun is actually just that heavy irl

Deagle 4.4lbs, MP7 4.2

[ivory crow]

SMGs have run speed of 1.10.

In that case, so should the Deagle.

M4A1 on the other hand has a weight greater than 7lbs.

At the very least, deagle running speed shouldn't be 1.0, but at least 1.5-1.9.

Balance wise, the pistol's high damage is balanced by it's low RoF, high recoil, and other aspects.

[river yoke]

Depends on design goals, which I can only speculate, much less agree on. But it's probably safe to assume they are a intentionally much worse than SMGs so say a sniper can't also have a CQB weapon that's just as good as an SMG.

[ivory crow]

They already have the auto-glock though!

[river yoke]

I don't know the stats so I can't speak on that.

[ivory crow]

Same lmao

I just want to zoom around the map with a hand cannon.

and the devs don't want that.

[river yoke]

Again, speculation, but it's not the hand cannon that's the problem. If there were say a primary weapon deagle right. But just anything in the secondary slot has to be a second class citizen.

[ivory crow]

Kinda like the riot shield being a third class citizen since it's just a gadget.

[river yoke]

not for me, I rebound gadget 3 to button 4 and vice versa because in BF4 I'm used to pressing 3 for rendezook

😄

[ivory crow]

It has utlity sure, but you can't bash people with it.

and that's a topic for another thread.

[bright stream]

I think switching to the pistol should be faster

[pure cypress]

I think there should be a bit more diversity between the first 3 semi auto handguns and I think the way to do that is to make the usp do more damage. It already has the mag size of the USP fullsize in .45 acp and a smaller mag size than the two starting hand guns why not give it a damage buff to put it more into the .45 Acp role.

Also and I'm pretty sure I'm the only person who cares but I'd like the model for the Usp fullsize or usp tactical fullsize instead of the compact, but again, I think I'm the only person who cares.

[strange hemlock]

no pistol changes in upcoming balance patch

[waxen mural]

mateba ROF, usp damage, rsh-12 damage, all need buffs on top of all the other suggestions if we're gonna see them be useful

[ivory crow]

Pistols having their steep damage fall-off so early is also overkill when the rest of their stats are considered.

Tbh I would prefer if that mechanic was deleted entirely. Controversial take, but damage fall-off only has a place in hitscan games. Bullet velocity should be more than enough to balance against damage and RoF. Players that can consistently land shots with slower bullets because they can read their opponent should be properly rewarded.

[pure cypress]

sadge

[pure forge]

the rsh should without a doubt one shot headshot every class except support with exo armor because why is a pocket cannon shittier than the unica which is .357?

[hallow karma]

Hmm.
Light pistol-
Armor damage ~6, body damage 26ish
M9, MP443, etc
High capacity, low recoil. 15 rounds, 18 rounds, etc. Great emergency defence.
Auto pistols like the G18 have massive vertical recoil, nearly uncontrollable.

Medium pistol
Armor damage 2, body damage 40-50
.45, 10mm, .357 SIG, etc.
Faster damage dropoff, aim around armor for best results. The pelvis is always an option.

Heavy handgun
12-24 armor damage, 45-75 body damage
.44, .357, etc
Moderate fall off, do not try sniping beyond 125 meters or so
Precision is key.

I still think headshot damage should be higher all around

[pure cypress]

Maybe the addition of a 1911 would be welcome that way there is something other than a USP shooting .45 ACP

[hallow karma]

Springfield Operator TRP
Lightweight pistol with soft recoil but slower recoil recovery. Faster drawspeed than the USP, but it carries fewer rounds. Same damage statistics.
10+1 capacity.
Reload speed is average.

[pure cypress]

I'm going to be a gun nerd and say 8+1 with a bit of a damage buff or lower recoil to make it easier to keep shots on target. I'd explain that as the 1911 having a better trigger than a USP (at least the gen 1 usps don't have fantastic triggers in my opinion). If for whatever reason they decided to add jamming which is a bad idea they could make the usp almost immune to it since the firearms polygonal barrel vastly increases it's realibility. But that's just a gun nerd tangent so feel free to ignore basically all of this last bit.

Or all of it altogether.

And while I'm fantasizing about pistols I'd like added maybe some of the sigs, the 220, 226/9, come to mind. Also maybe some of Wather's showings like the PPK, P99, PPQ etc.

[hallow karma]

the firearms are firing the same cartridge with nominally the same barrel length

at least in concept the TRP is just a lighter way to get rounds on target
although potentially increase its fire rate a little?
hmm
USP buff to 15+1 capacity.

[pure cypress]

Yes, they are, but the USP's trigger (irl) is a lot worse, and the fact that the 1911 has single stack mags instead of double stack mags makes it fit easier in your hand. In addition the 1911 is all steal making it more balanced and easier to get follow up shots whereas the USP is polymer and isn't as well balanced because of it.

[pure cypress]

That'd be fine since it'd be the 9mm version

[pure cypress]

Yeah I'd say it either needs a damage buff, or a capacity buff, I'd personally like to see the damage buff to make it fundamentally different to the other semi auto pistols.

[hallow karma]

Oh, the USP45's default is 12. Neat.

[pure cypress]

yeah, it's 12, for 45, 13 for .40 S&W and .357 sig (citation needed on that last one), and 15 for the 9mm

[hallow karma]

Honestly I think it'd be a lot easier balance wise to just put in the TRP instead of the 1911
ten shot clip can be more easily worked with than 7+1

[pure cypress]

Quick question, what does TRP mean?

[hallow karma]

tactical response pistol
yes it is stupid

[pure cypress]

Hehehe that's pretty good, almost as funny ast the Mk23 being called an offensive hand gun

Speaking of, honestly just replace the USP with the Mk23 for cool factor.

[hallow karma]

maybe an alternative skin option, as well as special suppressor and LLM attachie

[pure cypress]

I'd be down for that

It's basically the same gun.

It technically isn't but... ehhh... I mean the Mk23 is like a foot long irl. It looks dope. If they added it as a skin I certainly wouldn't complain.

What do you think about maybe adding the FN 57?

20 round mag capacity, low recoil, low damage, boosted effectiveness at range.

Like make the damage fall off happen later.

Maybe give it a bonus to body armor since it's a carbine round coming out of a pistol.

[hallow karma]

The Five seveN is fundementally a poor answer to an unasked question.

"Can I get my handgun to incapacitate an enemy by shooting through their soft body armor?"
Yes. Armor piercing ammunition for 9x19mm or certain high velicty cartridges like .22 TCM or 7,62x25mm TT.

Instead we have a handgun chambered in a bullet supposed to be used in a large swarm.
PDW depends on fullauto power, compensate for awful wound with number of shot.
Problem is now you have pistol fire rate with poor damage bullet.

[pure cypress]

you're not wrong.

It's a neat gun, but it's essentially just a marketing exercise and a ploy by FN to have a handgun that uses their p90 ammo even if the gun is still cool.

[hallow karma]

FN57
Armor/Body: 6/25
Damage falloff begins faster at 20 meters but falls slower.
20+1 basic clip, significant but snappy muzzle flip and low rise/shift.
3 reserve clips, giving it a total of 60 reserve rounds even without extra ammo.
Middling fire rate.

It'll stay on target but you might find dealing significant damage an issue.
Potentially give it enhanced bleed proc chance?

[peak robin]

I think the smaller pistols should have a quicker draw time and a much faster fire rate but at the cost of lower damage.

[waxen mural]

terrible opinion, they already kill in a ton of shots and a semi auto firecap of like 400 is enough for most

fast draw rates yes, but we don't need a pistol nerf.

[undone dune]

and they need a fix about the ironsight (center lower than the top)

[pure forge]

they need to make the rsh 2 shot body and 1 shot head (excluding exo armor)

👍

[hallow karma]

...how about no*.

[hallow karma]

Again, this.

If I wanted to be demented I could have pistols gain firing in sprint and one handed firing while climbing ropes and stuff

[pure cypress]

Yes

I agree