DMR buff

[north pollen]

Whats the point of dmrs when you can just spray ARs instead? they dont do enough damage to justify using them at close to medium range, and medium to long just use a bolt action?

[rancid bear]

DMRs are a precision tool more akin to a sniper than they are an AR. If you are trying to use them like an AR, I can confidently say that you are using them wrong.

They exist because in the medium to long range, you need speed as well as precision. They have more versatility than both an AR and a sniper, and they can competently compete against both, but the trade off is that it's more unweidly in close ranges.

My most used weapon is a DMR, for both the early access and the playtests. Frankly, part of me wonders if they're too good sometimes. I tear people apart with em.

[trim scaffold]

I don't know what DMRs you're using @rancid bear, but we're clearly not using the same ones. A 3 hit kill at medium to long range is useless, people more too quickly (Which is fine in itself), but trying to put them to use with their recoil, hit consecutive shots AND not get sprayed down in the process is near impossible. Not to mention, many of the recoil-reducing barrel attachments MASSIVELY hinder the accuracy of the gun (Which really should be toned down), so in trying to fight one battle you end up losing another, altogether making the whole thing useless. You now have a semi-controllable weapon for medium-long range follow-up shots, but they no longer go where you're aiming them.

[rancid bear]

I have never unequipped the bipod for this reason. It makes it a monster, giving it the consistency it needs to excel. The recoil is a bit much without the bipod in mind, I can agree there.

I think part of the issue is that I use them with expectation that the groups I'm fighting will have injured folks who will only take 1-2 shots to kill, usually 1. In that way, they excel at putting pressure on groups from a range, more so than snipers which, need I remind you take two hits to drop someone from full. And that's without mentioning the glare a sniper will have, while a medium scoped DMR will not.

And if you're getting sprayed by someone and actually being hit consistently, then you likely aren't far enough away.

Btw I just use the MK20 for now. I had around 500 kills on it during the playtest, only at 223 in the early access so far.

[trim scaffold]

Thing is, a med scoped sniper is much more effective than a DMR, you keep all of the benefits of a sniper including the MUCH faster bullet velocity and zero need for recoil based attachments. DMRs don't get any of those benefits, they have absurdly high recoil but shouldn't HAVE to rely on a bipod to be effective. They also suffer from 'burst fire delay syndrome', which seems that if you click too quickly, your RoF actually becomes slower. One more thing, they also have zero shot reset/aim recovery after firing, which is added salt to the wound. The last two points, the opposite is basically standard in all shooters. Shot reset should be a thing, and I shouldn't have to actually learn what clicks-per-minute match up with the RoF of my rifle...

When I'd last played the playtest, admittely a while ago, I had a good go with the Mk20 and found it to be really fun to use. Manageable recoil and effective damage, even at range. May have been too powerful which likely led to their current ill states, but they are genuinely not effective enough in the current game. Honestly, if their first shot recoil was reduced and they had slightly better RoF, they'd be fine: follow up shots would be manageable at the right ranges, and they wouldn't be completely useless at close to medium-ranges if you were a good shot. The damage models would be workable.

I've currently only played around with the Mk20 and M110 - the M110 is not great, and yet miles better than the Mk20 imo.

[trim scaffold]

Chucked this in the bug chat but thought I'll post it here too - looks like there's a bug (Hopefully a bug...) will recoil calculation PER SHOT for DMRs right now, could also be affecting other weapons but I've noticed it most on the obviously semi-automatic weapons;

This may be a large percentage of what makes using them so uncomfortable at times, or why it feels like some follow-up shots are so much harder than others. You're not accounting for the same recoil each shot, which in my eyes is terrible design as it lends to zero muscle-memory or learning of the weapons recoil.

[hybrid bramble]

As an avid MK20 user in playtest and current game, I can't say I have any problems with it. as far as a DMR goes, in the playtest I managed an over 800m kill from the lighthouse in Basra. I think the recoil is balanced pretty alright and the damage is pretty balanced too. I love finding a cozy spot to snipe at a distance, and even in the combat zone. I can get kills really easily, and I just tack on accuracy attachments as I unlock them. my big beef is while playing recon, they pushed the level unlock for the glock 18 out to level 80, which is gonna take me forever, since I don't only play this, and I am not the best gamer at FPS.

[tacit marlin]

You mean SMGs

[lost crest]

The point of DMR's is precision fire against targets of opportunity - mg gunners, at soldiers, aa soldiers, officers, specialists, or to give the rifle squad a longer range precision weapon that can reliably hit targets beyond the effective range of infantry rifles. They're a support weapon. You should be using them to contribute to your squad - harass snipers, kill engineers before they can get their rpg off, force people in fortifications to stay in cover when the assaults advance. Stop trying to be a hero and contribute to your squad.

[lapis umbra]

there is no point when the FAL, SCARH and AK15 can do the exact same thing

[faint veldt]

just use the scar on semi and it does about as good as the MK20 with the added benefit of not being garbo at close range

[white hawk]

i swear there was a much larger thread on this like a few days ago that seems to have disappeared.

[solar crypt]

the fire rate limit on DMRs is too much imo. also I think all DMR's except starting one should 2 tap unarmored body

[solar crypt]

I kindof disagree with that. I think it just raises the skill ceiling

[trim scaffold]

Bruh what

There is no skill to having to predict completely random vertical recoil, you simply can't. It just makes using the guns uncomfortable and clunky.

Some strange ass takes from people on this discord

[solar crypt]

Just because you can't doesn't mean it's imposible. You just pull back on target and shoot when on it

[trim scaffold]

Brother, I'm sitting on almost 400 kills with the M110, 250 with the EBR, 100 with the Mk20 and so far a 2.6 k/d, I'm plenty aware of how to do it, it doesn't mean it's not clunky.

[solar crypt]

And I think it's fine to be clunky

[trim scaffold]

Clunky weapons in a fast-paced game do not work together.

Same applies with long reloads, and long weapon swap times.

[white hawk]

the reloads and swap times are different to whats going on with the DMR accuracy.

[solar crypt]

you mean recoil inconsistency?

[white hawk]

i might try to get some recording stuff set up because theres something more weird going on i feel

[solar crypt]

all these things that you see as negative I see as good things for the game

maybe weapon swaps, to pistol esp could be quicker

[trim scaffold]

I can't tell you you're wrong, but I can so from what I've seen so far you're in the minority for those who think the current reload times are good for the game.

I'm not talking about 1.5 second lightning fast mag swaps, by rather than 3/4 seconds, maybe 2/3 seconds

[solar crypt]

you can get it there on most weapons with attachments tho

[white hawk]

i was wrong on my theory after some testing, and it appears to be related to first shot recoil.
what ever is going on in this vid is made much more annoying with 4x scopes aswell. like half a body higher variance at 50m.

not gona stop me from using it but still

[trim scaffold]

Oh yeah, I'm using the M110 right now - it's only redeeming features are the 2-shot kill with the heavy/long barrel, and the fact that it looks cool

[solar crypt]

From my testing it's not related to first shot recoil. First shot kick seems to be just a modifier for the first shot

[solar crypt]

That's seems to be the best really... I didn't unlock SVD yet but the 2 shot kill I think will still be better than lower vertical recoil and higher fire rate

[white hawk]

this is correct but the variance is lower with a lower first shot multi

its quite hard to check the variance on follow up shots though so could be something else

[solar crypt]

yea, that's what I've seen, the lower the recoil the lower the variance

[topaz hare]

NO. its not fur run and gun

[white hawk]

? the rof is so low that even if the recoil was 0 the BRs are still better close range

[modest helm]

the ammount of sniper scrubs is insane. you plague every game. leave battlebit alone.

[white hawk]

u know DMRs are on engi right

[trim scaffold]

Are you okay

[modest helm]

and? battle rifles arent snipers are they.

[white hawk]

and DMRs arent battle rifles are they

[lost crest]

Well yeah they're all the same kind of gun. Most DRMs are just accurized rifles firitng a full sized rifle cartridge. Any full-sized rifle can do the job if it's sufficiently accurate. A DMR is a role in a squad, not a specific kind of weapon. At the end of the day the actual differences between modern rifles are often weight, comfort, ease of use, ease of maintenance, availability of accessories and specific ammo characteristics. None of these things matter much in a video game. Even if you tried to model them all they'd have to be very, very minor differences for balances sake. Frankly any game where most of the fighting takes place at less than 300 meters should just have one set of stats for assault rifles and let people apply whatever skin they want to them.

[lost crest]

It's less fast paced than people think it is. The "Fast pace" is mostly people running in to gunfire like idiots with no attempt made at teamwork or coordination. If you actually coordinate with a squad you can get more doen with fewer people and with far fewer deaths

[trim scaffold]

@trim scaffold That doesn't make it not fast paced though? It's not only movement that makes it fast paced, but TTK too, both of these combine to make a fast paced game.

That's all well and good, but because this is a game there should be a better distinction between the weapons, aka a reason to use them. So far, the only DMR really worth using it the M110 thanks to the 2 shot kill with the right attachments, once people unlocked the AK15 and Scar there's really no reason to use the Mk20.

[proven oyster]

Why aren't the better x2 scopes available on DMRs, by the way? It makes no sense that m4 has superior optics choice than DMR, especially when those x2 reflexes are exactly the optic you'd want to use at engagement ranges where DMRs make any sense at all.

[white hawk]

isnt there only one 2x-3x it being the SLIP

not sure on the exact mag, but its between 4x and what ever the red dots are

[proven oyster]

I'm pretty sure its 3.4x

[white hawk]

just checked slip is 2x and it and the FLIR are the only ones

atleast according to the sensitivity options

[north pollen]

There is actually 0 reason to use dmrs when it takes more than one shot to headshot and more than 3 body shots to kill

[north pollen]

the amount of hitmarkers i get (specifically headshots aswell because i have hitmarker color different) is insane, i dont know how you manage to one hit them

[solar crypt]

I have green for headshots too and those are mainly 2 taps to the body, which only M110 is capable off with long barrel/heavy muzzle break as they increase damage. This is what I use DMRs for, medium to long range multiple targets, potentially moving targets.

[trim scaffold]

Not a single shot hitting a plate or helmet. Good shooting, but there's defo an inkling of luck there lol

That being said, I think it's been agreed that the M110 is the only truly effective DMR because of the heavy/long barrel. It'd be worse than the BRs without it, just like the rest of them.

It would be nice to spec a DMR for medium range and under, I like my semi-auto high damage weapons in other games (CoD, Planetside, BF etc.).

I definitely have bias for weapons I think look cool as well, M110 is up there.

[north pollen]

i have also been using the m110, but amount of headshots i get with no kill is just insane that ive gone back to sniping with a scar h

[trim scaffold]

It's a two shot headshot even with the extra damage, hence why it's easier to just tap the body. Not counting helmets of course...

[white hawk]

its almost not even worth going for heads with the m110 cause if the have a higher then light helm it goes back to a 3 hit

[north pollen]

which is just stupid seeing its a one shot with a bolt action of the same cailber, weapon class shouldnt justify how much damage a weapon does

[white hawk]

i mean it doesnt. theres 3 btk sections within ARs alone 3,4 and 5 being BRs ARs and the famas

[trim scaffold]

Either there's a damage distinction between weapon types and they're balanced that way... example;

(Scar-H does less damage than a Mk20 in return for better control and full-auto)

Or, they're balanced by handling... example;

(Scar-H and Mk20 do the same damage, but the Mk20 has better and more accurate semi-auto control)

Theoretical, and very lacking in the details department, but you get the idea. Mix and matching tends to lead to a balancing nightmare imo, but currently they're leaning more towards the later example. DMRs just need to be tuned as such.

Honestly I feel they could drop the damage of the AK15 to like 36-38 and improve their handling, reduce damage range or something. It's much harder to make a distinction between weapon classes when you balance by handling, with BRs and DMRs doing similar amounts of damage while DMRs being objectively worse due to handling.

As I've said before, the M110 is the only DMR that fully works in it's intended role due to it's damage with heavy/long. It's too hard to hit the two additional follow up shots on all other DMRs currently to make them worthwhile over the M110 or BRs.

The EBR is very close, and I've not gotten the SVD yet unfortunately.

[solar crypt]

DMRs have another advantage, bullet and damage drop off at range is way lower than for ARs

[dire bear]

Whilst that is true it doesn't really matter though, when its still easier to kill at range with an M4 and Scar than the DMRs, the issue here isnt that DMRs dont do enough damage, its that when taking every stat into consideration DMRs do not stack up to ARs in everything but like say +400m

[naive ibex]

the DMR is meant for longer range, the m4 is meant for medium to long range

[white hawk]

the problem isnt comparing them to normal ARs like the m4 its to the ak15,scar-h and fal. DMRs most effective range is like 150-250m which the battle rifles preform better in almost every way. if they want them for longer range they need to increase velocity. if they want them in the range they are they need more dmg or less recoil and faster ads.

Partial proposed changes for M110 (most familiar with, might do them all if anyone cares)
as a baseline + ACOG
First shot kick - 1.40 -> 1.00 ( no DMR should have this higher then 1.0 without attachments)
remove the weird re-fire limit
accuracy - 92.50 -> 100 ( kinda hilarious to have this 92.5 if the intended range is so far but LB fixes this so it doesnt really matter)
Velocity - 800 -> 900
ADS - .37 -> .30

idk prolly need to think on it a bit more. was also thinking they could add ranger barrel to the DMRs but i dont think that changes anything

[dire bear]

I see thank you for breaking it down

[stone steeple]

I love the amount of people defending DMRs said it was fine. It was outclassed by BRs at 0-200m. Above 200m good luck hitting 3+ shots to anyone with normal sense(not counting those camper that refuse to move even when getting hit by 2 bullet).

[north pollen]

yet the scar h does the same damage as the mk20 at range.. DMRS just need to do more damage regardless

[north pollen]

i usually use the scar h with a magnified scope and a canted sight and easily kill snipers at over 200m

[stone steeple]

Sniper at 200m is just on mid-range. That not really a optimal range for sniper

At 220 or 210m scar begin to need 4 btk

Just want to point out is at 220m mark is where DMRs begin to be better than BRs on number wise. But not so much in real situation because of recoil and how fast player can move.

[white hawk]

yeah i had a bit of a write up that i scrapped cause it was too long. basicly after 205m is when scar 4btks to body but the extra range the DMRs didnt matter cause the velocity was the same (basicly) and like you said, you aint hitting someone more then once past that consistantly unless there brain dead not paying attention or standing still.

ill add that the M110 with LB is 2btk till 400ish meters, dont have the exact number handy

[stone steeple]

Yeah m110 is the only DMR worth using currently. Other guns need buff.

They need to buff dmrs to be able to 2 shots or lower the recoil. Even bolt action have lower recoil than DMRs.

[north pollen]

Oh and another thing DMRS need to be able to shoot through helmets, its just stupid that a round designed to shoot through armor cant

[cosmic spindle]

And a bolt action also 2 shots

I dont think dmrs are the only thing that needs buffing

[stone steeple]

bolt can 1 shot with head where m110 always 2 shot no matter where

and people already tapping head like crazy with bolt

[cosmic spindle]

Barely ever experienced getting 1 tapped by a bolt action

And most of the time it was because I was just standing still

Definitely not 'like crazy'

Most of the time instead of a bolt action you get killed by an ar used like a dmr

[stone steeple]

lol bolt action op you just not meet it yet

[cosmic spindle]

Well it sure is damn hard to meet one

And if they're good they're usually over rank 150

Never once have I seen a player popping heads and being top frag while being a slightly lower rank

[stone steeple]

well in most server i play it always around 80~140 rank

people doing crazy shit with it

[cosmic spindle]

Like what?

You getting killed once from 500 m in a game where you die multiple times to an ar

Im not saying that a bolt action is unusable

Yes you can use it to pop heads

But how effective is it compared to a fcking ar

[stone steeple]

nah sniper kill mostly from 200m

[cosmic spindle]

Dmr has the same problem

[cosmic spindle]

Yes and its a measly 65 damage

[stone steeple]

some sniper my game reach 100 kill

[cosmic spindle]

Almost like a glorified revolver

[stone steeple]

137 with headshot

[cosmic spindle]

Well damn guy must be rank 150

And I also dont get your point of argument

Are you arguing that a bolt is better than an ar?

[stone steeple]

bolt have it use even in close range

[cosmic spindle]

Yes

Sure

It does

I agree

[stone steeple]

if 1 on 1 with crazy aim bolt always win again ar

[cosmic spindle]

'with crazy aim'

Wow

With crazy aim in a game with a mostly casual playerbase

[stone steeple]

yes and people are crazy with it. but more like i been unlucky and meet those more

[cosmic spindle]

Dont think theres any point in arguing further if your argument has 'with crazy aim'

[cosmic spindle]

Finally know the reason why this game has so many unreasonable faults

Damn bro cant tell if thats an enemy cause its using the exact same color palette with slightly differing armor

Skill issue I guess

Just see better

[stone steeple]

it truly is skill issue your case then

[cosmic spindle]

Yea sure call it skill issue

Too many 'skill issues' later and this game fcking dies

Give it 2 months

Surely the issues will be fixed

[stone steeple]

i could see player drop but dies is almost nah

[cosmic spindle]

Guess your level of death is different than mine sure

[stone steeple]

it been like this since forever

[cosmic spindle]

Games wasnt released dude

Bro this guy

[stone steeple]

it been like this since beta, people cry for sniper nerf, yet no change for it since

beta player are really cracked

[versed nova]

Dmr should be one shot headshot. That's all I want.

I'll keep all the other downsides.

[trim scaffold]

Brother what game have you been playing?

I want your servers

[cosmic spindle]

Oce and jap

Experiences might differ from server to server

In here bolt action sniper is very rarely used

They usually just ar lmg or dmr

Doesnt stop you from dying out of nowhere though

[white hawk]

this is the one buff it should not have lmao

related note but off topic. where the semi auto snipers and anti material rifles at

gimmie a m82 plz

[stone steeple]

If that happens then no one play bolt action anymore

Cause currently the different in term of damage between dmrs and bolt is 1 or 2 hs

[versed nova]

Isn't that part of the problem. AK15 is the also only 2shot HS, is it not?

[stone steeple]

That is the problem #1119171899742769207 message

There no reason to use dmrs right now other than look cool

[versed nova]

So with the RoF cap and the crazy recoil, a one shot HS could be viable. I don't think everyone would swap either because snipers feels smooth with little recoil. Much easier to hit shots.

[stone steeple]

Currently bolts have less recoil but the slow fire rate make the each shot worth

If dmrs 1 hs then it become better than bolt in every way because of the fast fire rate

[final cedar]

I would like it if the first shot recoil was buffed allot on all DMRs to make it easier to hit a follow up shot

[white hawk]

if you all would be so kind to ponder the ramblings of the possibly insane.

[trim scaffold]

Looks good, potentially slightly too powerful but without proper testing it's hard to say. However, this is the exact purpose of the current game state, for testing and building on - I don't see why these changes can't be implemented with some adjustment and reverted if not suitable.

Hopefully when Oki gets some time to put towards it (away from the troubles he's be facing), we might see some of the above

[final cedar]

I like most of you ideas it makes DMRs more consistent than they are now and I don't see these change making them OP but that's hard to tell on paper. And I am glad see I am not the only guy writing down ideas on text for game change Ideas

[rancid tiger]

Aren't they doing away with the armor damage stat as a whole, though?

A recoil reduction would absolutely go a long way (as would the velocity increase) but I think damage changes would be what really makes a difference. Since sniper rifles in this game are designed around hitting headshots for the most part, it would make sense to me that DMRs would require the same. Changing the headshot multiplier from the default 1.5 to maybe 1.7 or so might help DMR hits feel more meaningful.

Ranger barrel might also be nice

[white hawk]

ifaik they are planning on reworking it cause right now its effectively removed, its just there to say "ignores normal helms" to keep consistent 2 shot to the head

[rancid tiger]

I see, thanks. I didn't know.

[wooden wren]

Dmrs are pointless just use any ar . Literally the most useless class of guns in the game .

[mortal edge]

Naww dont buff dmr’s

Svd atleast was completely fine in playtest and the game is already suffering too much from glintshitters as it is

[trim scaffold]

Did you come into the "DMR buff" thread to make the most vague statement against the entire point of the thread without elaborating on it lmao

[mortal edge]

[rancid tiger]

Your profile picture is terrifying.

Buffing DMRs would make me feel better about it

[rancid tiger]

What do dmrs have to do with that? Most people don’t run the 6x on them.

[digital mason]

m110 with heavy barrel or long barrel is cracked. You can let off a 2nd shot before a player will react to the first hit, which allows you to almost always get the kill, unlike a sniper rifle which requires a headshot and the bolt action makes follow ups too slow. It plays like a more accurate ar at medium range too(if you use a canted sight ontop of a med), so you can win 10m-100m fights handedly. Stay out of the 'spray and pray' zone of weapons and you'll kill everyone. If dmr's were buffed to be 50 dmg base they'd become the most played weapon.

[white hawk]

the fact that the m110 with LB isnt the most played weapon kinda dampens your point

M110 LB is pretty good when your in the perfect range or have a good angle. but against say the scar, if you hit armor once you lose that fight inside 100m 90% of the time

[stone steeple]

If M110 is cracked like you said then I would see it everywhere by now. But now I see like 1 user every 2 or 3 games. And the KD of that guy is not even good. Yes it 2 shots kill but it's semi. That means if you click too fast it eats your click and won't shoot. Click too slow then you shot even slower. Not to mention the recoil of that gun make it very hard to follow up shot. Unless they are right at your face then with it slow ADS time other guns are still able to kill you faster. At long range their recoil make it impossible to effectively kill 1 target. You can but that only to a guy that not change their run pattern when get hit by 1st shot.

[mortal edge]

because 2 shot kills at range would be broken

[white hawk]

the M110 LB 2 shots at 400m... all the DMRs 2shot 1 to head 1 to chest inside 200m but so do the BRs (DMRs probably farther, havent tested that and armor fucks this but w/e)
being a 2shot at range doesnt change much if that was the only change considering the velocity is not good for that kinda range
that being said im not a fan of the inverse range scaling, makes you just sit back to the point of why not use a regular sniper.

[final cedar]

a good start to buffing the DMRs is probably increasing the velocity and removing the fire rate limitations that that make firing fast a chore

[white hawk]

yep 100%

[wooden wren]

Yes Dmrs are pointless, the fal is miles better than any of them .

[white hawk]

i mean they dont need to be, current state just needs some numbers and a refire buffer to be serviceable.
id like them to ignore lighter armor but the bigger changes i listed dont need to happen and shouldnt without testing.

[fast dawn]

exactly

[proven pebble]

Potentially give DMRs a little faster range dropoff in exchange for lower muzzle climb
as well, increase ammocounts to where they should be, 20s range instead of 16, 12, etc
in concept, a DMR should fill that niche where it does IRL

between long distance bolt action rifles and middle to close range assault rifles

[barren birch]

dmr feel like they arnt what they once where

[white hawk]

compared to when if you dont mind me asking?

AFAIK they havent been changed in years

[rancid tiger]

I do not think more range drop off for DMRs is a good idea at all. A DMR is a precision ranged weapon; it is not meant to have significant close range utility, it is meant to be a faster firing more versatile alternative to a sniper rifle. Reducing the range in any way is just going to push them to a place of irrelevance.
Again, a DMR is not a long range assault rifle, and any attempt to push them towards that role is going to immediately lead to them being outclassed by the long range/high damage ARs that already exist.

[white hawk]

they are, 1 head 1 body for quite a distance. problem is helmets and armor. it can take up to 4-5 shots on a support with the m110 LB if you all the armor

as in all DMRs can 2 shot with a head shot. m110 is only one that 2 shots to the body but its still a 2 shot if you get 1 to the head

i mean ignoring the accuracy stat, ak15 scarh and fal are basicly straight upgrades to the svd and mk14 inside 200m and i dont think a higher hs multi changes anything about that

i think ROF is a good enough close range balance tool that reverse scaling isnt needed, all the DMRs could prolly be 2 body shots and they still get out classed by almost everything close range

not saying its a bad idea just a bit awkward

you already can with m110 LB assuming your not hitting armor for both shots and its only light armor

its 12 isnt it

normaly woulnt say it matters but this is def a minor numbers mater situation lol

yeah

so the proposed changes i posted earlier boil down to
fix refire time
ignore lightest armor
reduce recoil
allow 2shots at increased recoil on other DMRs (except mk14 ebr)
normalize ammo in mags

none of these changes stop getting dumpstered inside 40m by any close range guns due to ROF

oh forgot to add increase velocity to that list

which if i had to chose 1 thing for the m110 to get it would 110% be that

[stone steeple]

it funny that AUG have better veloc than DMRs

[rancid tiger]

I mean to be fair that’s how it is irl, the AUG fires 5.56 which has a muzzle velocity between 900-1000 m/s, whereas the DMRs all fire either 7.62x51 or 7.62x54 which has a muzzle velocity of around 800 m/s

[white hawk]

the AUG is the only one it makes sense for due to bullpup barrel length things

like m4's dont have 20 in barrels

[wise pine]

I didn't even know there was a thread on this. DMRs definitely need a buff, and they should have the recoil return to its original spot rather than having us manually adjust it every time

[rancid tiger]

I mean it does have a longer barrel anyway but 5.56 still gets a good 900m/s from a 14.5” barrel

[wise pine]

literally no use for DMRs in this game when higher caliber ARs just do the job better anyway

I can just tap fire with the AK15 and call it a day

[rancid tiger]

Then you want a battle rifle, not a DMR.

A dmr is not a longer ranged assault rifle

A DMR is a fast firing, more versatile sniper rifle.

[wise pine]

the problem is that it's not even versatile in this game

damage is far too low at longer ranges

[rancid tiger]

They’re absolutely more versatile than sniper rifles, even if only because of their higher rate of fire. Don’t get me wrong, DMRs are in need of some love, but the AK15 is absolutely not capable of the same things the dmrs are.

[white hawk]

ignoring the m110 LB ak15/scarh/fal can do pretty much everything the other dmrs can inside 150m

[rancid tiger]

Inside 150m

[white hawk]

thats straight upgrade range

[rancid tiger]

The frag rpg can do everything the m200 can do inside 20m as well

[white hawk]

can also do anything it can do inside 500m

but thats not the point

[rancid tiger]

It does less damage and has lower range

That is a downgrade for a precision rifle

[white hawk]

velocity is a huge issue outside 200m for the DMRs

[rancid tiger]

No disagreement from me here

[wise pine]

yeah I want more velocity

[low slate]

Hello fellow DMR gamers.

I also enjoy handicapping myself.

A tiny bit more velocity would be a great start, right now the DMRs only really feel like "Wingman Weapons", where you set up kills for your mates and that's that.
I may not get many kills in my games, but I get solid assists up the wazoo, because I can usually get a shot or two off on whoever I spot before they hide. Sadly assists aren't shown on the scoreboard (they should!)

They don't feel like solid kill weapons, and even as wingman weapons they kinda suck.

[proven pebble]

I get that
but in my mind they should generally fill the niche between extreme range lmao get domed idiot of bolt actions and close to medium auto/plinking fire

[rancid tiger]

Okay, but a DMR is still not a close range weapon. It is a medium/long range weapon. If it’s strong at close to medium range it’s not a DMR.

[proven pebble]

it won't be strong
but it will have the potential of earning a kill more easily than a bolt action
close range spam might get you a kill in an emergency, essentially

i'm not saying they're going to be strong in close to medium range, where did you get that idea??

[rancid tiger]

I misinterpreted what you said about close/medium range, but my point remains. They don’t need a nerf to range to balance out whatever buff they might get. A range nerf would only serve to push them further into territory where they lose to assault rifles and lmgs.

[proven pebble]

assaultrifles and machineguns hit minimum damage at about 300 meters
DMRs begin dropping off at about 350-400 meters and only lose one bullet to kill at about 900 or so

potentially upscale their headshot multiplier to scrape out one hit kills up to 500 meters or so?
hmm
regardless, in concept they'd be nominally softcapped at about 750 meters distance and leave the long range stuff to bolt action rifles by damage falloff and bullet velocity
more intended to picking off guys at the next two rooftops over rather than blapping people from over a kilometer away

also i still want their ammocounts to be as they should be

20 round base clipsize

...ok wow this game doesn't hold back when it comes to range huh?

[rancid tiger]

DMRs still don’t compete with bolt action rifles at long range, though. They still require multiple hits to kill and have lower velocity and more drop. I’m not concerned about DMRs outdoing bolts at range because it’s still much much easier to use a bolt at long range. A DMR should be capable of making hits to a kilometer or more, but they should stay the way they are in that they aren’t very effective at that range.

Also, as much as I might like to be able to one-hit kill with DMRs, it would be crazy unbalanced and push bolt action rifles out of the meta in a big way. Most people aren’t sniping at 1000+ meters, they’re doing it at 300-500 or closer. DMRs should absolutely still compete at those ranges, just not outdo the sniper rifles. It might not be super realistic, but it is more balanced that way.

[low slate]

I agree with the above. DMRs just are outclassed in their own job by literally every other class of gun.
Short to Medium range? Any AR, LMG or SMG outperforms in close quarters, sometimes even in full auto I can get lasered down by those guns without at medium ranges.
Long ranges? Sniper Rifles exist, and while I'm still able to scare a sniper into hiding with my 60 Damage Headshot, it's not like I've won that duel.

DMRs are just BAD at their job, their TWO benefits that I can see being:
1.) They're good at quickly picking off low health targets from safe ranges in one shot with good ammo efficacy.
2.) They set up well for the rest of your team to more likely win exchanges that maybe otherwise would've gone in the enemies' favour (45HP make a huge difference in a 1v1 after all.)

I agree that I wouldn't want the DMRs to just be a semi auto sniper, being able to consistently win exchanges at even 800m+. Those kinds of events should be reserved for rare, well calculated shots. It feels amazing to actually take out or even just hit a sniper and challenge him when all you can see is his glint. They should focus on making the DMRs more viable at the medium ranges to semi-long, allowing it to more effectively pick off groups of weak targets while also increasing its potential to pick off kills by themselves without needing to land 3 body shots. (Or at least making the body shots more reliable to hit.)

@rancid tiger If I may ping for your opinion, you yourself said that more velocity would help greatly but what would you think about reducing fliching after getting hit? Most of the time I find myself losing exchanges because I can't readjust after recoil quickly enough, them turning to me and getting hit repeatedly, stopping me entirely from actually... well, aiming

It would of course be a buff for everyone, but I think it affects DMR the most. ARs and the like dont care that much for flinching at their usual short-mid ranges, and Snipers get hit one shot at a time if they're not being bumrushed, so it doesn't affect them as severely

[rancid tiger]

I think that some flinch changes could potentially be good, but if it is too big of a change you risk DMRs being able to move way up in range to be close/mid range monsters.

[low slate]

Yeah, not too much that it's unnoticable just enough that I don't have to readjust my shot by 40 metres for every 10 damage I take

[rancid tiger]

That would be nice

[white hawk]

flinch as a whole needs some tweaking imo. would come back to the idea after some changes, maybe having it scale on damage taken instead of scaling on your weapons recoil as it seems to be now

[low slate]

They heard us

A small step for gun-kind… but a huge step for the DMR

Granted, it was probably not us and mostly the proper thread about flinching but… still counts!

[low slate]

Indirect DMR nerf since now our strength of picking off low health enemies is basically void

I still like the change, just kinda cucks us in particular

[stone steeple]

1 again reaffirm that dmrs need 2 shot kill

[proven pebble]

I'll repost a concept I came up with:
DMRs to replace what SRs do.

At about 300-600 meters they come into their own, retaining headshot kills up to 500 meters through medium or below helmets.

SRs instead become much more niche, used more to pick off bits of equipment or destroy light vehicles (increase their L-Armor damage a lot), as well as pick off people who're oblivious and exposed, like some kind of long range sapper class.

Potentially:
DMR vertical recoil reduced, horizontal recoil used to help moderate shots at range. DMR magsizes increased to their proper 20 or so, but reserve ammo reduced to a reasonable amount.

Possibly also at 600 meters start making their bullet velocity drop speed up?

As well, slightly slow down their ADS speed to make assault rifles superior in reactivity but still let DMRs pop enemies at range.

[rancid tiger]

Bullets don’t lose velocity in this game.

I really don’t think they need to reinvent the wheel here when it comes to dmrs.

More damage, less recoil, and maybe more velocity is all they need. Nothing else needs to change, and sniper rifles certainly shouldn’t be affected by any changes that are made.

[proven pebble]

I think a lot of the problem is that SRs and DMRs overlap too much in role and range band
I think SRs should be encouraged towards the extreme range support option and DMRs be a more common "let's go sniping" thing

[ivory junco]

Yeah they ll probably take a look at dmrs as well

[low slate]

not quite, DMRs bridge the gap between AR range and (sensible) SR range

They cover what an AR shouldn't effectively cover, while not quuuuite being as far out as SR

[real cedar]

I haven't checked who is moding the chat and if they are actually reading this. Most likely yes but considering it is only one dev DMR balance is not a pressing Issue unless someone in the admin comunity tells me I'm wrong. I am a DMR lover my self and personally love the MK14 EBR. But I have not seen any hints of anyone saying "Hey we are thinking of a solution".

[rancid tiger]

DMRs do bridge the gap between sniper rifles and ARs but not just in terms of range. The other very big difference between DMRs and sniper rifles is volume of fire. A DMR can fire far more rapidly and is therefore much more suited to dealing with groups and situations where multiple targets are present. They also hold more ammunition, which helps even further.

[low slate]

not when your aim is as bad as mine-

I just hit a few nasty flicks sometimes.

[white hawk]

assault getting DMRs is nice aswell. gona be over-shadowed by p90, groza and the bandage healing thing though

fixes that garbo ADS speed

[hollow hound]

I believed in a certain YouTuber who said that the M110, after unlocking the heavy barrel, could kill enemies with just two shots, and that it was a top-tier (A-grade) weapon. However, when I used it, I found that as soon as someone spotted me holding it, I was doomed to die. The recoil was so exaggerated that it was impossible to retaliate after being hit. In close range, I couldn't win against handguns; in medium range, I couldn't win against submachine guns; and in long range, I couldn't win against sniper rifles. I could only try to ambush enemies in secret, but the bullet travel speed was slow, and the recoil was strong. Even when I aimed at the target, the bullets often scattered randomly and missed. I realized that using other weapons for ambushes had much better results. The more I played with this gun, the more unhappy I felt. I've given up on it.

[real cedar]

I have played the M14 EBR. I know its damage isn't the best but I personally find it to be rewarding. Relatively no recoil(Compared to the M110) And the full auto feature kinda lets you defend your self while defending your campind spot. I only have 200+ kills on it so I have stuff to unlock. Some one on this blog said already that they should give the DMR's one hitshot killl(Same and bolt-Action snipers) keeping damage values the same of torso and under. That would make things even for DMRs mid to long range viable. While giving the edge to the really long range shots to the bolt actions.

With that DMR's are set they can keep their recoil values.

[wise pine]

I 100% agreed with this to an extent. I actually like the m110 with heavy barrel now, but the recoil needs a significant nerf

but like someone said, if they give DMRs more OHK potential, I think the recoil balances that out...although I still think it needs a nerf

[peak obsidian]

make the m110 do 50 damage STOCK. the gun is useless in its category without the heavy barrel, hence meaning you need like a 200 kill grind to even be useful

[real cedar]

Well think about the MK14 and the SVD... even with heavy barrel damage-wise they are crap but they make up for it in rate of fire.

[peak obsidian]

they dont really make up for it in rof because there are lower recoil beam rifles and sniper rifles, meaning theres a tiny range at which a dmr is effectice but also not outclassed

and unless the rpm is sub 300 it doesnt matter, with the recoil you arent getting more than 2-5 shots a second dowrange accurately

theres two okay dmrs, the heavy barrel m110 for its two shot potential, and the mk14 for being a worse scar/ak15

[real cedar]

LoL I was braking my keyboard earlier. I was getting my ass handed to me by bolt action fire-rfiles (M200) hit them once or twice and getting head shotted for my troubles. I started unlocking the MK14 might as well finish it.

[stone steeple]

On 2nd thought having all dmrs 2 shots base is not really a good idea. Ppl will use the lowest recoil while still having good fire rate gun. Make the game not varied at all.

[rancid tiger]

I wonder if making them sort of like the deagle could work? So they can 1-hit only on someone with no helmet maybe? I'm thinking about that after playing a lot with a bolt action last night. Unless I miss the first shot or I'm dealing with a larger group, the bolt actions kind of just do the job better than the DMRs can. I love DMRs in every game I play, but they're just struggling a lot right now.

[mortal edge]

one hit dmr?

i arent think that

[white hawk]

in a perfect world they should have the option to be a 2 shot or be good enough at 3 shot that you have to actually think about what attachments you are gona use

and making DMRs 1shot HS at any meaningful range at best makes them annoying AF to play against or at worst makes them busted and everyone uses them

[rancid tiger]

Yeah I really don’t know what the solution would be

[white hawk]

theres so many options to make these good and not overpowered though, honestly i think its just a manpower and not a huge issue with the game as a whole as to why there hasn't been a wide weapon/attachment balance pass.