Enemies are too difficult to see

[rustic sky]

I feel enemies are difficult to see in general, and I'm not talking about snipers I'm talking about right in front of me in a construction zone, and on top of that I find myself dying frequently because I am trying to look for the friendly blue dot above their head, but get merced in .25 seconds

[hidden falcon]

Dont look after the dots, spray some rounds if your not sure,there is no team killing so dont worry to much, but the speed of the game dont give you time to think and with foot steps everywhere its very hard to know whos whom, I snap to friendly targets all the time and hose them down with a few rounds, Remember that your fighting vs127 / vs64, Well the short reply is, Shoot first then worry about the ammo wasted on friendlies later haha

[hard verge]

Shot first ask questions later, although i rarely have issues with IFF

[manic pasture]

This sounds like a you problem more than a most of the player base problem. Maybe get eyes checked?

[tepid storm]

Just play more you will get used to it

[sudden narwhal]

I also think I have problems with my eyes cuz I struggle with that shit too, same in Squad lmao

[sterile elbow]

My only issue are moments when the marker of an ally happens to be right above a enemy (and thus I mistake them for an ally). Otherwise, I think this sorta visibility is fine. It's part of the game.

[harsh sentinel]

i too had this problem but you get use to it

[lavish tree]

Eye issue

[small parcel]

what about red outline around enemy?i mean what aslo affects visibilty are the dots representing your allies. edit: maybe its not in the spirit of the game because all the cammo skinns would be useless then...idk

[lavish tree]

[runic niche]

although im sure many people would meme on you for this opinion, red outlines are a staple of many shooters. cod, halo, battlefield, etc all do this.

the difference is that the intention of the game--or so ive heard anyway--is to make this in the spirit of Squad, where target identification isn't as cut and dry. i'd agree with you that adding a red outline for enemies would be ideal but only if the intention of the game is to be a more arcade shooter and less milsim/hc shooter.

[sterile elbow]

I don't recall that being a base feature, though.

Spotted in some way, yes.

But he seems to be talking about a general, permanent outline.

[runic niche]

it is absolutely a base feature in many shooters.

[sterile elbow]

Any specific examples in which everyone is just always outlined?

[runic niche]

i literally just mentioned some lmao

go play halo infinite, enemies are always outlined

[sterile elbow]

Looking at it again, they do indeed have a constant red shade.
Though Halo Infinite is as casual as a shooter gets, so while you're correct, that's not a great example.

In comparison to BBR anyway.

That game is almost entirely about positioning.

Mostly because aim and awareness are being assisted to such an extreme that they're almost irrelevant.

[coral blaze]

There are always red idk wtf you wanna call them in the back of helmets

[sterile elbow]

He's asking for a straight up outline of the whole body.

[runic niche]

every shooter is almost entirely about positioning, this isn't as good of a point as you were intending.

[sterile elbow]

Not really, because you still need to aim.

[runic niche]

lmao

this is also entirely irrelevant to the original point of outlining enemies

[sterile elbow]

Halo Infinite assist you to such a degree, aim assist is even forced on MKB. 💀

Of course positioning is still important in all of them. I am speaking in relative terms.

I'd say it's like 40% position and 60% aim in BBR.
Like 75% position and 25% aim in games like Halo Infinite.

Because of the game assisting you so heavily, of course.

But if we come back to OP's actual point...it's mostly a map design issue.

It brings us back to the need of textures, shading, lighting, a sense of depth.

Just makes it hard to see people in certain locations.

[runic niche]

another easy fix would just be

adding an outline

like every other popular shooter

[sterile elbow]

Thanks but no.

That's not a fix.
That's creating another issue to fix someone's "issue".

[runic niche]

how is that possibly an issue lmao

[sterile elbow]

Completely invalidates the point of stealth at all.

[runic niche]

LOL

[sterile elbow]

And it's already pretty eh thanks to the tracers.

[runic niche]

alright im outta here, dented foreheads in the chat only

[sterile elbow]

Almost no shooter even has this, so "like every other popular shooter" is just no argument at all.

[sterile elbow]

Appreciate your ability to take disagreement, but lets clarify one thing since I feel like we might not be on the same page:

Are we talking red glow outline or just some thicker, black border to make them stand out from flat textures more?

I assume the former.

The latter would be alright.

[rough leaf]

Tbh guys, at first I also couldn't get used to it, but since 2 playtests I completely forget about this problem and found it even cool that I can just pretend to be the enemy and kill 3 or 4 of them at one spray or smth like that. But I think that having red lines(like bandages) on the sleeves or some red sign on the helmet would be really helpful just for recognizing among the crowd

[runic niche]

you're literally arguing against facts. halo as mentioned, cod as mentioned, overwatch, valorant, any moba you can think of. outlining enemies in red is a classic tool devs use all the time. the only games this is not a staple is hc/milsim shooters like insurgency, squad, and arma.

which as i already mentioned, if the intention is to lean that way, then sure i do not care. but you cant sit here and say "no shooters do this" when its literally one of the most popular tools used in enemy IDing

[sterile elbow]

I am arguing against facts that aren't facts...?
CoD doesn't have them. Valorant...well, the skins are so damn bright, I can't even tell honestly. About as stealthy as Fortnite, so visibility is a given even without it. Overwatch, yes. Doesn't really matter for this kinda game (due to the MOBA aspect), but yes. Naturally explains itself for MOBA's as such...the focus there stealth, after all. At least I can't think of any where it is, besides specific heroes with cloaking abilities.

But just looking at pretty much any Battlefield, CoD and really most shooters...such outlines are not a thing. I don't even know how you can quote games that instantly reveal that they do not have this.

[sterile elbow]

Almost no shooter even has this
...is what I stated. Please don't make up quotes that do not exist.

Do mind I naturally didn't go through every installment in existence now.
Maybe some of them have this. But I don't know of any BF or CoD with permanent outlines like that.
Even Siege got none.

So yeah, there are a few shooters that do have such outlines. But they're the minority and at least a few of them are very different in design altogether.

[runic niche]

[sterile elbow]

I am honestly curious where you see it in games like CoD.

If you just happened to get it wrong, that's fine, too.
If there's something I am missing, do show me, please.

Checking a BF2042 stream as well, there is no such outline.
But this one does, at least within a certain range, clearly show a marker above them.

That much is more common, indeed.

I think the way BBR is doing it is pretty alright for the most part.
The markers that Oki added to characters relatively recently are doing a good job.
Only downside is that you don't get it on their head if they have no helmet. So that's confusing, though it also means you gain some "stealth" for dropping a helmet altogether.

[runic niche]

you know what, i went back and looked at old cods because i wanted to see if i was right, and in none of them is there a red outline; they had red nametags and sometimes a little mark like bf2042. so yea my bad

[sterile elbow]

Glad we got that misunderstanding sorted out.

I'd be inclined to agree with the BF approach.
A marker/name when you look at them. But only when it's so close that you couldn't possibly not see them (or when it's reasonably "close" with a scope), and naturally the crosshair right on them.

[coral blaze]

Gud idea

To get rushed by a bunch of tryhards

[pale hare]

idk, i think players are pretty easy to spot in this game as it is and it fits the game's overall feeling of chaos and interest in creating battles that are fairly intense for the senses to have room for confusion between allies and enemies at a first glance when shit's very hectic or if you position yourself well and take advantage of player grouping

[sterile elbow]

It's overtuned in BF.

[zenith haven]

Make dofrent looking playera for each side

Plese

Thats why i like csgo beter than bb

Zero confusion

[warm wind]

Out of all the fps games on the market, this one has some of the best visual clarity of any of them.

That being said, better distinction between teams wouldn't be a bad thing. I'd love then to be different enough so I could disable the blue dots above allies completely to clear the clutter a bit.

There is also some terrain(mainly buildings) which are one solid colour texture that should be given some bricks or outlines so depth is easier to perceive. Most textures have that already it's just a few which are missing them.

[warm wind]

Also overwatch. Others have targets highlighted once you've spotted them or damaged them for a duration. This keeps camo effective, but once you've damaged them, easier to see

Imo that's one of the best features. Visual clarity is important and something a ton of modern fps mess up pretty badly. Apex legends, cod, and if anyone tried the "The Finals" beta all have such bad visual clutter it's difficult to visually track targets during a fight. I hope more games focus on having good visual clarity and this game is a prime example of one that's pretty good already, but has room for more improvement (see my first comment above)

[daring adder]

so isn't that what camouflage is for?

[west jasper]

The only time I have some trouble seeing enemies is when the other 126 blue triangles and the capture points are obscuring them XD

[tender wing]

Everyone that cant see the enemies well should buy glasses

this game has the best visibility out of many

[west jasper]

That's a bit of a stretch.

Good yes, but not best.

[tender wing]

not the best

you are right

but players not being able to see enemies is nonsense

[zenith haven]

I guess my brain is to slow to see the .000001 difference in rgb on the playermodles to tell the two teams apart

[tender wing]

they are marked with blue dots above them..

[zenith haven]

Why

[tender wing]

ur teammates are blue the blue dots

[zenith haven]

So i can tell them apart because the playermodles (whrer im supost to be looking) are the same?

[tender wing]

playermodels arent the same

but there are blue dots above your teammates

[zenith haven]

The are to simaler for my brain to difrerntiate in time before i get shot

[tender wing]

look at the dots

[zenith haven]

Can you plese make like a bunh of tests for me

Like, a capta so i can learn the difrenses

[tender wing]

what?

[sterile elbow]

I think he's asking for clips.

[tender wing]

dont have any clips sadly

[zenith haven]

I should just play the game more

I cant realy complain synce ive only been in like 4 playtests

[tender wing]

I have been in 1 and I see everything well

I think there is an option to brighten or make the teammate icons bigger

I dont know though

[zenith haven]

I just dont like that it needs teammate icons

[tender wing]

I dont think they will turn enemies blue

and your team red

like team fortress 2

just so you can see better

If I were you, I would play the next playtest and try to focus

not finding the differences between enemies and teammates

[lavish tree]

bingo

[fervent schooner]

I think pretty much every shooter (outside of milsims) has some way to make enemies have clear contrast from the environment, and it isn't always red outlines

it can be slight red lighting, making enemy player models have extra shimmer like in BF4, making their name tag visible when you're aiming at them, etc.

with that being said, those techniques only get applied because there's so much texture detail, particle effects, and complex environmental design in modern games

Battlebit doesn't need these IMO. Blockmen are pretty easy to pick apart from the background with simple graphics.

[tepid storm]

yes the slight red lighting would be perfect, I recommended it in battlebit-eng earlier but it would be better in scenarios where an enemy rushes you and you can't see anything cuz your screen is full of friendlies and then there is one hostile

maybe in close range?

[opal flume]

just learn how to see. ive played enough to get my reaction time to see enemies this recent play test i saw and enemy on my left side and with out think i instantly aimed and shot at him. the more you play the better you get and this game is supposed to have stealth options and be a little realistic from what ive seen

[lime shadow]

I agree, I don't have the best eyesight but still, when things get hectic I shoot at teammates as well. The red bit on their helmets / uniform has been a gamechanger, but a bit more obvious indication would be nice. I like how BF4 did it, characters were shaded(?) - maybe something similar could be done without having them stick out like a sore thumb?

[opal flume]

I also got eye problems just practice and it will become 2nd nature. Practice practice practice:))

[thick oak]

enemies literally have glowing red bits on them

[limber creek]

I think outlines would be too much, but having the cross get red/blue would be handy. Could limit it to only work within 5-10m too

[maiden blaze]

I wouldnt mind a subtle red outline at a very strict set range. What range that would be is up to the devs and the balance implication, I would also say the enemy helmets have a bright red physical mark on the back, which is seen even in night maps, I wouldnt mind a smaller red marker on the front torso as well.

[north hawk]

different color uniforms or better distinction in enemy/friendly is vital, design wise it doesnt make sense to give us friendly doritos and not enemy ones tho the visual clutter in both instances is unneeded. If giving friendly doritos then all players will do is train at lack of dorito instead of presence of dorito. Its counter intuitive and just hindering.

if the goal is full immersive hence no minimap and outlines then should go full in and remove all doritos. Current friendly/foe design is contradictory and unintuitive.

if goal is to pay attn to screen instead of ui elements than distinctive camo for friendly/foe is best solution imo.

[muted wraith]

Sorry... no, they are plenty easy to see.

[warm wind]

I think improving UI a bit would help. I'd prefer not to see blueberry names at all, only squad, and I don't want to see blueberry tags who aren't in my direct LOS, personally. Most of the time players aren't difficult to spot, but it's difficult finding a balance where you can see friendly tags well enough not to shoot at them, but without having so much visual clutter with the tags everywhere on your screen at once. Hiding them when out of LOS would clear that up a lot and improve target visiblity as a result, imo.

Otherwise, I agree with better distinction on uniforms. Having a light tint on allies and darker on enemies(to easier see against the environment) would be very helpful. The cosmetics don't have to change, just give them an additional tint over it

[hard verge]

Calculating if friendly in LOS will be a nightmare for performance.

[rare ore]

I think you are right. To accommodate all (Hardcore and normali player) I would put two modes like in the old BFs, a mode where the enemies have the TagName above their head clearly visible and a mode without (like in BF Fanatic)

[muted wraith]

It's already in the game.... Have you not seen the name tags pop up when you look at an ally?

[earnest wolf]

They were camo designed to make em blend in lmfao

If the glowing red spots arent enough skill issue

[hard verge]

That's not los calculation

[muted wraith]

Oh it's not, then when I'm looking at someone, and their name pops up, what do you think that is?

[hard verge]

That is aiming at a hitbox, path trace to target. LOS would include obstacle calculation and so on

[muted wraith]

It is though.... Do you think they'd code two seprate hitboxes and run a check loop for different reasons? Maybe it's only effective within a certain range, but it's been in gaming for decades and performance would not be a concern. Unless you're running on a laptop from decades past with a gtx760. XD

[earnest wolf]

It is

[lime shadow]

wheres the people saying "skill issue" now, they literally added glowing bits onto the models

[muted wraith]

I would do it... but to be honest, that's childish.

[sterile elbow]

That change simply gave the feedback the final push to being irrelevant.

[rare ore]

in other games where the tagname is not present , different color uniforms or different character skins are put on . ArmA, Insurgency for example. you need to improve the visibility of enemies, it's a question of quality of life. Personal skills have nothing to do with it, it's a simple matter of good sense. If you want realism at any cost there are other games where you can show off your incredible skills.

[opal flume]

finally a post that makes sense

[wintry monolith]

this already sort of exists in the game as of the moment, and there's also red armband things on the enemy models

[rare ore]

Yes, but due to the graphic style, they are ineffective. In fact, the graphic style causes a vision of the landscape that is all the same and this makes it even more difficult to distinguish a human form from the rest of the landscape in the background. I love the style of this game, but objectively it's harder to tell things apart, making enemies more visible makes the game less frustrating, it also reduces camper players

what I mean is that the characters have the same shapes as the objects of the surrounding environment, this causes extreme mimicry which makes the game sometimes frustrating

In HLL, ArmA etc this does not happen because there are different uniforms, camouflages colored in different ways or light effects that make an enemy stand out from an ally, furthermore having a realistic graphic the human forms are better distinguished

[wintry monolith]

does it really make it hard to see enemies? I can clearly distinguish enemies from their surroundings mainly because of the camo they're wearing

out of everything, the enemies are the most detailed thing that I always see

but that's because i play on potato

[rare ore]

My friend, we are not all the same, each of us is different we must try to meet, as far as possible, without distorting the game, all the other players

[wintry monolith]

I'm aware, but out of everything, I didn't expect that player visibility would be an issue

but it's also likely that I'm just really used to looking at almost perfect camoflauged things and still seeing them (im totally not a crackhead)

[rare ore]

There are many variables, as well as personal characteristics, the screen you use and the quality of the image, the gamma, the contrast. there are many variables , for this reason we need to find a solution that fits . The other milsim games found (as written above)

[native saddle]

Right now people with bigger screens simply have way easier time finding enemies, it is kind of a problem

[elder belfry]

I've been trying to word out feedback for this game since I discovered it and quite honestly I love it and don't have many or big problems with it but this guys video almost perfectly summarizes the few problems I do have with the game. This video also covers around the topic of this channel and general visibility of the game.
https://youtu.be/Q5JUdkdGYIs

[sudden viper]

Enemies being difficult to see is sort of a design choice. There are plenty of indicators to show that an enemy is ahead of you, such as red lights, opposing uniform colors compared to your team, and a lack of a blue arrow or name above their head. These are enough to give a general player information on who's an enemy and who's not.

The reason we don't have crazy visibility, like massive red outlines, is because this game is attempting to be a more "realistic" account on Battlefield. It has some Mil-Sim elements, such as bleeding, lack of health recovery, and lack of movement options, and the more difficult visibility is a part of these decisions.

Rougher visibility allows enemies to hide, and simulates slightly more realistic fighting that centers around wise positioning, patience, and quick target acquisition.

It creates a unique gameplay experience, and I personally disagree with making enemies more visible as it would disrupt this flow heavily and turn the game into an arcade shooter. BattleBit honestly lacks in the Arcade space since popular arcade elements, such as movement options, health regeneration, more controlled lobbies, and plentiful ammo, are not present.

BattleBit takes advantage of its small selection of arcade elements by balancing it with hardcore elements, like bleeding and all that. It creates a very, very unique game experience that I personally adore, and I can see how much easier enemy visibility can mess this up.

I don't mind if an enemy is easier to target when you spot them in their entirety, and that's been improved using lights that glow a specific color based on what team they're on (blue / green for your team, red for enemy team). They can maybe add more stuff, like stricter color palettes that sees the US as green and RUS as red (which BattleBit already sorta does) and that would be nice, but I am heavily against concepts such as red outlines, enemy usernames / health bars, and other stuff that removes stealth and controlled chaos from the game.

[gusty goblet]

absolutely agree, literally layed prone next to an enemy due to the difficulty of discerning enemy and friendly

[native saddle]

problem is, this design choice is ultimately absolutely in opposite to the gunfight design
the only thing that this thing is causing is "shoot first ask questions later" mentality, since there is no friendly fire there is and never was a need to hesitate in the first place.

[wintry monolith]

afaik there will be friendlyfire in hardcore mode or something like that

[native saddle]

it still means there is no need for confusing design in non hardcore mode then

This design choice simply doesn't fit gameplay at all as of right now

[wintry monolith]

confusing? the camos for both teams don't look alike that much

• the team indicator gives you everything you need

[native saddle]

right, i forgot they have diffrent mark on helmets... Yea they do look alike and its unnecessary in more arcade mod, they could easly add red dot above the enemy to avoid any confusion and make the game that much more clear

[sudden viper]

I’m confused. You say the more difficult acquisition is working against gameplay, but provide no reason as to why.

[native saddle]

no pretty sure i was pretty clear on that
it serves no purpose. There is no friendly fire so you are simply making players shoot everything that moves because friends don't take damage anyway. Its simply unnecessary

[sudden viper]

You also say that this causes “shoot first, question later”, yet immediately contradict this by insinuating that the issue is that you shouldn’t need to take time and identify the target, but your claim is that this is already the case.

You did say it serves no purpose, you still haven’t explained why.

Wait nvm, my bad you did.

I do want to say that I have never had trouble figuring out who is friend and who is foe, so I’m kinda confused on the overall sentiment that it’s near impossible to figure out who to shoot.

[native saddle]

It doesn't serve any purpose because the mechanic itself doesn't fit in with no friendly fire gameplay

[sudden viper]

How so?

[native saddle]

Because if you are not sure you shoot, there is no need to look for any identifiers, why? because allies don't take the damage and enemies do. Simple as that.

Its unnecessary

[sudden viper]

To be fair, not everyone has the issue on who’s the bad guy. This claim is assuming that no one can tell the difference.

Furthermore, there is a reason to identify who you’re shooting at: it’s to save ammo and keep your position anonymous.

I’ve very good at making spelling errors.

[native saddle]

Ammo barely matters most of the time since you regain it all on respawn and time to kill is so short you virtually never run out of it.
also if you are shooting at the enemy your position anonimity doesn't matter anymore, if you are shooting at ally you didn't need to hide it in the first place

[sudden viper]

I strictly disagree with most of those sentiments, but I’d rather not go in a loop of one person saying “this is the problem” then another saying “nuh uh no it’s not”.

It’ll waste both our times and will just result in us being frustrated, so perhaps the best option is to agree to disagree.

[native saddle]

If identification doesn't matter in the first place... why keep the models so similar then?

better visual clarity is usually good play when vagueness doesn't play a role

[sudden viper]

Rough identification does matter, as the game is aiming to allow guerrilla warfare with hiding, stealth, anonymous positioning (aided by a lack of radar), and stuff like that.

The models, although similar physically, have separate color palettes, so I wouldn’t say the models are way too similar. They’re not as obvious as something like Overwatch per say, but they still have differences without using something like big ass red outlines.

Not trying to be rude nor argumentative, and I apologize if I am. I’m just not sure what point you’re trying to make.

[rustic sky]

I’m glad this thread is still going on 4 months strong

[shut mirage]

Can we just have a different color?

Whats the hurt

'realism because irl people only use green or brown'

Jeez man

[vale sapphire]

Can we have an icon that display the enemy in the map at 12-20m near the the player when the enemy shoot❓ It will be nice❗

[warm wind]

no

[vale sapphire]

why not❓

[plush nacelle]

i honestly think the enemies are too easy to see, especially medics with all the red and that glowstick i think it is? on their back besides your allies literally have blue letters and triangles on top of them so anything that moves that doesn't have that is 10 out of 10 an enemy

[plush plume]

nah sometiems the triangles don't appear and you can use cosmetics t o make enemies and team the same.

[foggy otter]

Just shoot anything that resembles Minecraft steve. There's no teamkill in this game.

[plush plume]

yeah and then get shot by 30 different people that now see your tracer bullets ( which are so stupid and should be removed)

[uncut plaza]

I've definitely not noticed enemies right in-front of me. I also like the ability to actually hide without the use of gimmicks. Feels realistic. But there is a slight lack of clarity sometimes.

[plush plume]

it makes sense when someone isnt moving but people are also hard t osee while moving because how soft everything is. On that moutnain sand map people in beige are fuking so hard to see

[uncut plaza]

Personally it makes sense for me not to be able to see them easily if they're passing across sand wearing sand camo. My issue is with the latency between my brain realising something is an enemy, and shooting it, when they're up close. There's definitely something a little off there that I can't quite qualify, but enough people have spoken about it for it to be on the radar (IMO). Don't have this issue with other games, even visually cluttered ones like BF2042.

[plush plume]

its because everything is too soft and colorbanding/blending is a problem. The hardest for me is seeing a prone player....half the time they just look like a dead body

[vale sapphire]

Exactly

[vale sapphire]

It happen to me many times

And sometime I am infront of the enemy and he didn't notice I am an enemy, he just bypass me.