The amount of angles you have to watch for is ridiculous

[bitter jolt]

There are way too many buildings with access to the rooftops (basically every building) which on most of the maps creates this boring gameloop where everyone is camping on roofs and shot down people on the floors below. Also the vegetation needs to be worked on since apparently they work as one way smoke where you can't see enemy in the bushes but they can see you from certain angles.

[mystic monolith]

Skill issue

[round jolt]

skill issue

[heavy quiver]

skill issue

[bitter jolt]

Yes, I know, still better than you, ty for the input anyway.

[round jolt]

as you complain bout buildings

classic

[bitter jolt]

I am complaining about map design

but I would imagine that's too hard to comprehend for someone who can spell out only two words

[heavy quiver]

nope is understandable but if the game let me go on roof i will watch roof

and heay is dangerous to run in middle of the street in war zone

[bitter jolt]

and that's the issue, most of the maps have too many buildings that allow that. Considering other titles like battlefield etc. you can see the pattern where even though there are city maps, most of the buildings have limited access like having stairs for only one floor.

[opaque jolt]

100% agreed on the post, a lot of the maps have that issue and i wish i could avoid them and only play valley, district, Isle and azagor

Having such easy acces to an absurd amount of highground and windows heavily favours a playstyle relying around camping common angles and spamming claymores/mines beneath yourself so you always get notified of anyone pushing

[bitter jolt]

I am glad that someone understands my point

as mentioned, I am not in favor for just open space on maps but you have to keep in mind that creating absurd amount of spots where you could be shot from makes the overall map flow intolerable

[pale blaze]

nah

[severe crater]

Skill issue

[opaque jolt]

[round sorrel]

Skill issue

[late tapir]

git gud

[bitter jolt]

Show me your k/d and kill per minute before making clown of yourself by saying skill issue

map design on most of the maps needs an improvement

[scarlet ibex]

Post yours and I'll do the same

[muted citrus]

I will say I don’t completely agree with your point, but then Lonovo comes to mind and I suddenly remember why I choose to not play that map. The problem you’re addressing definitely varies in severity per map, but I think Lonovo is the worst offender with several large apartment-style complexes.

With that said, it’s not like seeking the high ground is a new or unfamiliar advantage. It just creates a situation where passivity is stronger than aggression (unless you have good communication with several other people who can make the push successful)—which is usually inverted in this game, as solo aggressive play can generally be enough to succeed.

[bitter jolt]

Finally a reasonable answer that I can address like human being. Yes, I did not say that having any sort of advantage aka high ground etc is bad but huge amount of maps do this without a bigger thought on how it affects the gameplay flow. They create way too many spots and too little dead zones so you can be shot from 10 different windows etc.

[muted citrus]

Yea I mean good luck running in the street between C and D on sandy without getting lit from 42 different angles; I understand your point. The only thing I can say is that while the map has influence over gameplay (the extremes probably go from Lonovo passivity to Construction hyperaggression), the different gameplay ideologies aren't necessarily enough to warrant a redesign unless the intention is specifically to skew gameplay one way or another. Like hypothetically if the devs specifically said "we want this to be nonstop run and gun" then certain maps are better at it than others.

[bitter jolt]

I agree, there are maps that definetely promote agressive playstyle more and on the other hand there are maps that are much "slower" yet again, you can achieve creating "slower" maps without making most parts of the map a crossfire. You have to consider the player perspective rather than esthetic of map, putting 100 buldings without an understanding of the map flow wont do much good.

It's way too noticable when you run around these maps and most of the buildings are covered with milion claymores, they basically become ww1 trenches battles

[scarlet ibex]

So, no K/D posted yet? Damn skill issue fr

[bitter jolt]

I am on my phone, dont worry, will post it after work today

[muted citrus]

The surfeit of traps certainly doesn't help, I'll give you that. I think that just by eliminating claymores/mines from certain classes like medic would go a long way in making these key areas more assailable. That might be a different topic entirely, but it ties in with the effect that these large structures have on the lanes within their vision.

[worn burrow]

https://tenor.com/view/diagnosis-skill-issue-diagnosis-skill-issue-draker-discord-gif-22231351

[opaque jolt]

I dont think claymores and mines are a big part of the problem, if you are better than the camper you can simply clear them out, push them and outaim them. I feel like a lot of the issue comes from highground being only accessible to one side of the gunfight due to the extreme amount of staircases being blown up whitch forces the player thats below to either take an extremly long route to access a spot that makes the gunfight viable

[worn burrow]

if weapon damage falloff is adjusted properly, campers will have to use longer range weapons, which makes em lest effecitve in close range, which measn you wreck em when cleanring em out

[opaque jolt]

I dont think that would solve the issue on some maps, i think some of them are genuinely flawed

I do agree tho that the damage falloff numbers should be adjusted accordingly

[raven glen]

dont agree on this one, but imagine ppl just come to write skill issue. literally only thing u do is write skill issue on every post. giga clowns actually

[scarlet ibex]

are you STILL at work bro? damn.....

[bitter jolt]

Forgot about it yesterday

[opaque jolt]

True but sadly its the internet, no way around it haha

[muted citrus]

Your win/loss is gross

[simple vigil]

https://tenor.com/view/diagnosis-skill-issue-diagnosis-skill-issue-draker-discord-gif-22231351

[worn burrow]

i do agree with the author on LONOVO tho no cap

50 billion windows lol

[dense lintel]

When talking about amount of angles to look for on maps, except Lonovo, Salhan comes to my mind. At the beginning of a match everything is fine, but right after that everyone proceeds to just destroy buildings, and after 10-15 minutes there is zero cover on this map except fundaments of building while laying down and this canal near the B point on Conquest

[hollow mason]

post your feedback in #1019642813576646767. doesnt really help to have feedback for maps here when it has its own channel with a thread for each map.

[rotund hemlock]

the bushes i dont care about that. just called tactics. we have al used em in many games. the angles theres not to many ^^ theres just enough i think.

[nocturne fulcrum]

Skill issue

[merry mountain]

take c4/RPG/anti-vic grenade, destroy everything, enjoy the flat map

[hollow mason]

yuck

i really hope oki reinforces most buildings so it either takes more to knock them down or just flat out take away the amount of explosives every class gets

[late tapir]

c4 goes on EVERY class

[hollow mason]

yeah i mean its a cool thing to get around like getting through multiple buildings on the second floor of sandy but 6 is way too much, should be 2 so you actually need to choose what you want to use it on since you dont have much and resupply can be difficult sometimes. You either use it on people in choke points, buildings to get through or make it more open to get angles on enemies or to blow up vehicles

[mild heart]

I would like some more options to clear out roof campers, though. It does get annoying when half team is sitting on rooftops for some maps

maybe napalm you can drop that targets building roofs and burns for 30s

[late tapir]

if only we had some sort of weapon that fired projectiles at supersonic speed

hm yes well maybe battlebit 2 will have it

[hollow mason]

that sounds absolutely awful

even if the intended application is to kill roof campers, giving players freedom to put it anywhere, putting it on the bridge of waki is somewhere it would be awful

those kinds of things just become frustrating

[mild heart]

that's why I didn't suggest putting it anywhere.

[hollow mason]

you can hunt roof campers, flank with a whole squad and clear them out, you cant be mad if they are just mechanically hitting their shots and you continue to ignore them

[hollow mason]

you suggested having napalm drop of building roofs

[mild heart]

yes, napalm dropping on building roofs. That's very clearly not suggesting dropping napalm anywhere

it wasn't a serious suggestion, regardless.

[hollow mason]

ok good

[mild heart]

I would highly prefer more routes/gadgets that allow flanking onto roofs, at the moment there are many places that are impossible to clear out and players can sit up there indefinitely no matter how many times you kill them.

Especially with how many claymores/mines there are

Even if you get up there you may not have enough ammo in the mag to kill 5-6 players, and they'll just respawn right back up there, especially if you're also getting shot from a different rooftop

[hollow mason]

i agree claymores and mines are getting out of hand, the amount people place is crazy what they can cover

[mild heart]

it may be better to make some rooftops inaccessible or have out of bounds timers, then others are designed to be able to get on top of with many flanks

[hollow mason]

thats why i said you should bring a squad for that to properly clear them out. one player in the squad plays assault and puts on the grappling hook and then your whole squad can get where they are. if you are talking about being too far back in spawn where its out of bounds for enemies then yeah there isnt a fix for that

[mild heart]

If a building has 3-4 staircases up and a grapple, for example, that's fine. But some places have 1 staircase up 10 floors, each one with a claymore or mine or two, and then you have to also kill all the players, before you even get to the roof where there's 5+ players you have to clear, and if you miss a single one they all just respawn up top with all their gadgets and ammo replenished.

[hollow mason]

claymores are usually placed inside and the campers are usually on the roof so grapple hooking all the way up on the outside can be effective

[mild heart]

shame my medic doesn't have grapple hook 😭

[hollow mason]

thats why i said you play assault to fix that

or one of your squad mates

they would be covered on heals since you intend to run medic

[hollow mason]

if medic did have grapple it would take the spot of healing box how the game currently works so that would be meaningless

[mild heart]

I've tried playing as a different class but it felt really pointless, you just never get heals. As medic I can kill 15-20 players until I run out of ammo. Otherwise generally have to play so slow and stationary it's not fun. Other medics don't drop boxes and many don't heal so you just end up dying after 2-3 engagements since you're stuck at low HP. That's pretty much why I play medic, so I can reset myself and immediately keep pushing. Biggest issue is just that literally no one ever plays support so you just eventually run out of ammo

but I'd rather do that then wait around for someone else to reset me so I can keep pushing and taking points. Either way rooftop camping is irritating as hell when so many people do it and the buildings don't have enough access points to allow for effectively clearing them out, so some restrictions on which buildings have roof access would be a good change to the game

I was going to make a thread regarding the amount of explosives/mines/claymores and suggest some limitations, at least I'm not the only one who has noticed there are far too many of them

[hollow mason]

access points like ladders and stairs can also be destroyed same for grappling hook line being cut, many people will make themselves unreachable. its not the building itself that starts unreachable

irritating as hell you say but you kill 15-20 players possibly per life, seems like a pretty basic cycle for campers to also get kills and do what they want if you can to, and medic being the most op class for self sufficiency, already lets you do so much. either you coordinate with your team to get rid of the campers or get sniped by them every once in a while. your frustration sounds like a skill issue coming from the fact that you dont want to have to directly deal with them and they should just be quarantined by the game developers

[mild heart]

I don't really have anything against camping, it's not like it's an invalid strat. But it's also undeniable that an excessive of camping in power positions that are difficult or impossible to break and/or clear is really not good for gameplay, and it's particularly extremely frustrating to play against.

Having to dedicate your entire game to clearing out the same rooftop over and over, or you just get constantly sniped or peppered from height with little chance of effectively returning fire, no matter where you go, is really not a good gameplay loop

[late tapir]

don't forget many stairs can be destroyed entirely

[brisk oar]

skill issue

[fast spear]

game has something pretty cool going for it, somebody's gonna complain about it lol

[fresh meadow]

This complaint is virtually pointless if you purposely play on anything larger than 32vs32, to be fair.

Even there you got a tons of angles that are always being watched. But 64vs64 and more? There's pretty much always several people watching most angles.

[late tapir]

simply by virtue of the amount of players yeah, it's like eating chocolate ice cream and complaining that it tastes like chocolate

[bitter jolt]

I am playing 32vs32 only and it's still the issue

battlefield 2042 has the same problem for example

Too many buildings/spots that give vertical advantage

[fresh meadow]

Then I am afraid it's not the game. 🫡

16vs16 would be your last hope.
But maps are so tiny there, it may not help.

I suggest you reevaluate your approach.

[merry mountain]

aka dont run like a headless chicken in the middle of the street, use covers, It's not a run&gun quake like

[rough sinew]

Use the Famas

[merry mountain]

And smokes

[bitter jolt]

[whole vale]

Skill issue

[bitter jolt]

What's to reevaluate? That some maps are not well designed?

Instead of putting 100 5 floors buildings next to each other, it would be better to fill the space with something else

or just limit the access to some of them

[whole vale]

Yeah vil did that with frugis
Now no one votes for it

[bitter jolt]

Skill issue as you said, from my observation people tend to like camp in those spaces, plant another 1000 mines on stairs and sit there for the whole game

[whole vale]

Gives me a good set of kills then

People camp and get fucked usually
It’s more of a skill issue on your part
Then again I have 250+ hours in game
350+ via steam

Highly suggest setting up a speed load out on medic if your tired of “campers”

[late tapir]

people don't vote for a lot of good maps because people think valley basra and waki are the only ones

[merry mountain]

Most of objectives are not in buildings, no camper problem if you flanks

[whole vale]

That too lol
Valley is ass imo
Overplayed to shit

[unborn radish]

I've been killed once by a camper I think in my 42 hours of Running a Speed Medic set.

[bitter jolt]

yep, yep, my skill issue, 3.2 k/d without abusing medic, seems about right

[merry mountain]

K/D mean nothing

[whole vale]

3.2 kd means nothing when you coulda just started and got a handful of kills with a sniper or tank

[unborn radish]

Keep in mind that in this game the bullet velocity is quick, so you have to be quicker.

[whole vale]

^

[bitter jolt]

no tanks/no snipers

[late tapir]

I love valley but I want to play all the others too (except sandy fuck that shit)

[merry mountain]

Or dont sleep in oppens

[whole vale]

Sandy is the worst map
Just a running simulator at that point

[late tapir]

yup

hate that garbage and it's so popular

reeee

[sacred otter]

Play slow or use smoke to cross sections without cover if l you can't outshoot them. Don't just charge in the middle of the street without cover. It's not an issue of map design in most cases, and we also have a handy feedback window on the specific maps after each game

[merry mountain]

Rally and heli is needed, not really exept if It's not conquest

[whole vale]

Like the dom/inf/frontline versions are playable (if you wanna count that)
But conq sandy fuck that

Yeah Ik
Why we always push with a heli and back cap on that map

[fresh meadow]

I literally told you.
Your. Approach.

[bitter jolt]

I will play medic then, with full smoke setup, if that's the solution to map design

[whole vale]

Yeah no that not how it works lol

Legit it’s just a skill issue on your part

[bitter jolt]

of course man

[whole vale]

Tho the medic setup will help you with a more aggressive playstyle you can transfer over to other classes a bit (not support fuck support)

[sacred otter]

Only map with too much angles is Frugis (especially when half of the walls get destroyed right away) and Salhan when alslmost all buildings get destroyed which is rare

[bitter jolt]

so Lonovo is fine?

[sacred otter]

Had no problems with it tbh, snipers on every roof sometimes give a little trouble, but they usually can't hit a broad side of a barn

[merry mountain]

Play with your squad, get killed, friend take the revenge then revive
You cant play bbr like a CoD as solo player

Camper are easy target, c4/rpg solve other probem

[sacred otter]

You can, but then you should be ready to do some squad wipes once in a while.

[merry mountain]

Even the mace can help to drill your own path

[sacred otter]

Drilling your own path is a good option on any building heavy map and helps quite a lot to get around difficult areas with high enemy counts or big open spaces

[merry mountain]

The game is not designed to play as a one Man army, you need to rely on team mates

[whole vale]

but playing it as a group of COD players works out!

[merry mountain]

As a group yes, but dont expect to run alone or ppl like og will have problem facing a lot of players

[late tapir]

😎

[merry mountain]

And more angle also mean higher scill cieling bc opération métro maps no thanks

[fresh meadow]

That won't fix the core issue, but it's one way indeed.

[violet void]

Dude getting shred in game by 9 y old coz he don't know how to play, attack on the phrasing of someone low tier player imo

[bitter jolt]

I will start asking without any remorse because I am already tired with the same bs on this topic: are you retarted?

[violet void]

[late tapir]

reported

BB discord is no place for racism