#WEAPON balancing feels decent for such an early state of the game

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

fleet quarry
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I know I know, AS VAL is king of the universe and Kriss Vector had sex with your mom. Balancing may not be absolutely perfect, but this game has done a great job so far with making sure no weapons absolutely dominate the game. Some guns are better, but none are amazing without any drawbacks.

Furthermore, not many guns are inherently useless from what I know. Every gun has some sort of niche, and although some guns are gonna have better niches, I can use whatever I want and not feel too limited by balance. I must applaud the devs for that, it's good stuff.

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EDIT: After some discussion with people in the comments, I’ve decided to change my view a bit. Keep in mind, this post was meant to be about weapon balance and not balance in general, which is my bad for not making it more obvious.

I think no weapon is inherently completely useless. What I mean is that you can take any gun and do well with it. The problem right now is that some guns are just, well, better. If you use the As Val instead of the SG550, you will definitely perform much better, but you can still do good with the SG550. That’s the part I wanted to applaud the devs for.

In terms of the actual meta in the weapon category, it’s definitely not balanced. Kriss Vector is a complete upgrade over PP2000, M200 dominates the Snipers, and all the 40+ damage ARs are just plain better than MOST of the normal ARs and are better than some DMRs. It’s also my bad for not making that clear in the first place.

I believe the devs will address overall balance eventually, but they’re most likely locked in on making content right now. I wouldn’t be surprised if they decide to rework everything after early access comes and all the starting content is done, but it would be nice if they addressed balance (such as weapon balance) soon.

Thank you! Wish luck to the dev team, and thank y’all for being so communicative with the community!

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delicate bay
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your kinda right, i will say their is a clear meta tho like if u get into a fight with somebody whos using the val or ak74 and u have like kriss or something 8/10 ur loosing that fight no matter what. AK and AS Vaal are thee best guns in the game. its good balanced tho like how you said no gun is really bad the meta ones are just super fucking good

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and the p90 is better then the kriss thank me later

runic zinc
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"not many guns are inherently useless"
Except for like, half of them

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Guns are either overtuned or just bad.
Just a handful feel balanced (M4, MP7, AK15, uuuhhh)

delicate bay
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true

fleet quarry
runic zinc
fleet quarry
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I can see that yeah

runic zinc
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When you use a weapon for 70% of the match, and then switch to the STOCK M4 and get twice as many kills in the remaining 30%, you know something is not right

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And the M4 is not even meta

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it's just balanced

fleet quarry
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True. I personally ran M249 most of the time and the moment I switched to SCAR H + max speed build I immediately did a lot better.

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I'm just use to games having absolutely abhorrent balance during the beta stages, and although this game isn't perfect by no means, I do think the balance is a little better than what I'm used to.

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Game does have an issue where certain guns completely outclass others though.

runic zinc
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Maybe that's because you're not being bottlonecked by your weapon choices yet

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I'm always giving different weapons a try

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different playstyles and all

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it just doesn't work

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for most weapons, that is

plain kiln
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I personally have been having a lot of success with the sg556

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Although after trying the vector its not even close

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I didnt get the feeling of any weapon being useless but some definitely stand out as a bit overtuned

fleet quarry
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That's more of what I felt as well

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But some guns, such as the ACR, feel completely outclassed. I can also get behind most DMR's being a little useless and all snipers being outclassed by the M200.

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M249 feels a little lacking as well, but I am able to succeed with it regardless.

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Guns like SG556 are by no means terrible, but damage is such a big deal in this game and weapons that have very high TTKs (such as FAL, AK15, SCAR H, Vector, AS VAL, Honey Badger, the list goes on) are just kinda better by default

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Doesn't help that high damage per bullet guns, such as the AK15, have very good range too.

atomic comet
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DMRs are really bad

plain kiln
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I think the biggest problem for the weapons that kill very quickly rn is that there is no downside to them, i feel like the recoil on the vector is virtually non existent, same goes to the FAL

fleet quarry
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I feel the same

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Although FAL literally has doubled the amount of recoil compared to something like the SG556, it still feels way too stable.

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Also SCAR H feels very stable too.

plain kiln
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Those are just my initial thoughts tho and i've only been a part of 3 playtests so far

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I feel like i need a lot more time and to encounter some decent players in the enemy team that figured out a different optimized loadout that perhaps counters mine

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I personally dont actually hate the guns not having that much recoil but a very fast ttk shouldnt be going unpunished, initially i'd propably change the damage drop range cause currently vector shreds people even if they are relatively far away

fleet quarry
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I'm pretty much in the same boat. All of these are initial thoughts and I still don't have the best understanding of the game.

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I do agree. I understand that the IRL Vector doesn't have a lot of recoil at all (the whole point of the gun is that it has waaaay less recoil than it should), but the fact it deals decent damage at range as well is kind of unbalanced.

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I would lower it's damage by a bit, since it completely outclasses the PP2000 at damage AND rate of fire, and then lower it's accuracy or range so it isn't a menace at the mid-range game.

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Heavier damage guns should either lose out on range (since most of them challenge DMRs somehow) or get even more recoil, but I would choose the former to prevent them from being uncontrollable.

plain kiln
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My take is that ideally he weapons should emphasize their weapons class (for example smgs being shredding beasts up close but falling off in low-mid to mid range) and each weapon in a given class should play around the idea of the weapons classes idea, therefore the should be no such thing as an assault riffle capable of consistanly outclassing a dmr long range

fleet quarry
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I agree with that

plain kiln
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I havent given dmrs a fair try yet since the playtest time is so limited but if they are seriously unable to outclass people in buildings etc then yea i'd say they have to be either buffed or ar's mid-long range capabilites have to be nerfed

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Maybe on the next playtest i'll give them a fair try

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Honestly imo a lot of the problems that come from using a non fully automatic weapon come from lack of understanding of positioning/peaking principles

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A lot of the people that i've seen use these weapons expose themselves for way too long and get punished for it

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Im actually really curious as to how they it feels to play with them rn 😆

fleet quarry
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I'm curious as well, and I see the same issue. Lots of people play a little too aggressive with DMRs.

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Personally, my initial thoughts after reading all the stats and comparing DMRs to Snipers and ARs, I think DMRs and every sniper (minus M200) need to have velocity buffs.

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The DMRs have much, MUCH better damage ranges compared to the high damage ARs (like, some DMRs deal about 40-50 damage at 300m, while the high damage ARs deal 40 at a max of about 120m), but they lack velocity.

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Comparing DMRs to high damage ARs, most DMRs have around 700-800 velocity, while the ARs have around 750. Instead of nerfing the High Damage AR's velocities, since most of them are around normal numbers for ARs (though a little higher), the DMR's velocities should be mega buffed to something around 900-1000 velocity. This would allow the DMRs to actually take advantage of their massive damage range.

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Sniper rifles (again, minus M200) should also get velocity buffs to help better fight the M200-dominated sniper meta and now the DMRs who would have around the same velocity. I recommend Snipers having around 1300-1500.

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These are just early thoughts though. I might try DMRs and Snipers to see if their velocity is really the issue.

tropic canyon
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For me the dmrs first shot kick/overall recoil is just too high. Hitting that 2nd shot is so difficult sometimes. Only thing that counteracts it is the stabil grip and you need 800 kills to get it so....

gritty mirage
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The game is balanced cause half the guns suck so people only use the overpowered ones

lament hornet
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DMRs shouldn't even be in the game honestly

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they fill a niche that essentially doesn't exist

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plus they're cringe 😎

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snipers don't need buffs but the M200 needs nerfs

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sniping is the one part of gunplay that feels the least unbalanced at this point because it's just the one standout rifle dominating all others

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it cycles too fast, it ADS's too fast, it's uniquely powerful in that it alone can take down exo helmet supports (feels like exo helmet supports deserve to be able to survive a headshot from any rifle)

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the bullet velocity is also in a class entirely of its own

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a 300 speed lead over the next fastest, if memory serves

viscid fox
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I sometimes ignore the stats and just use guns that I like irl, it just happens in this game they are dogshit and can't compete in the meta at all 🗿

for example the sg-550 is just a worse m4.. it has same rpm, worse dmg, giant muzzle flash if you want to use lb and hb. The "ok" part is that it has the same dmg ranges as the heavy rifles witch is useless because its pretty hard to hit a moving target 4 times ( 5 if they are wearing armor ) at that range, might as well use a scar or ak15 for that.

The good nice part is that it has fast reloading and quick ads time. Despite all of that I still maxed it out ( 2100 kills ) because I like the gun irl, did pretty good with it ( around 50/60/70 kills per match ) but if I used m4 or some meta gun I could reach those scores a lot faster.

viscid fox
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Have to disagree with Naro here, I personally think the G36 is quite balanced too, especially after they buffed it a little bit. In cqc it does better than the m4 in my experience

fleet quarry
fleet quarry
viscid fox
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I recommend this build ( muzzle: tactical | grip: bcm | mag: extended )

image.png
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the extended mag takes quite a long time to unlock tho

lament hornet
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wait g36c extended is 30?

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what is standard????

viscid fox
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oh wth

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no its 40

lament hornet
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oh okay

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that's quick?

fleet quarry
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What's the grip and muzzle attachment?

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oh wait sorry

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You literally typed it lol

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-_-

viscid fox
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ye I edited it

fleet quarry
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Thanks, I've give this a shot for sure.

viscid fox
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but quick mag is pretty nice too if you don't have the extended unlocked

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doesn't add recoil thats nice

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fleet quarry
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I usually run quick mag but extended does give you more ammo to work with. Might be an underrated option.

drifting cliff
fleet quarry
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I do think the original point of "no guns are useless" remains true, but I do think a lot of guns get completely outshined by others (such as the Kriss Vector being completely better than the PP2000, or the M200 destroying every sniper besides itself). What I mean by this is that you can use any gun and still do good (hence no gun being "useless"), but if you use certain guns then you'll do considerably better.

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Attachments are a mess though yeah. I was thinking about making a feedback post about that, but I might wait until after tomorrow's playtest before I do it. There's only about three underbarrel attachments that are good and I think almost every muzzle attachment is kinda bad (I'm not sure though, I'll check).

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Classes are unbalanced definitely, certain gadgets are not too useful but I wouldn't say gadget balance is way too bad, and I have no idea about vehicle balance, don't use any myself.

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Balancing feels oddly "decent" for such an early state of the game (it's kinda not the best though)

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WEAPON balancing feels “decent” for such an early state of the game

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WEAPON balancing feels decent for such an early state of the game

tropic canyon
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he only tried balancing tanks recently because of helis

fleet quarry
tropic canyon
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thanks

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im sure oki may appreciate thoughts on gun balance and all once EA release is stabile he will look at it. just make sure you dont justify any of the balancing with realism or else he will mute you

fleet quarry
tropic canyon
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yeah hes already told me that anytime anyone tries to reason with him about balance but brings in their military scientifically correct facts he just mutes them or never implements anything with that justification

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which is good

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we dont want realistically balanced guns/ game balance

plain kiln
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Its impossible to grasp what the state of balance is having so little time each playtest tbh (no im not complaining about playtest time, its just a fact 😆 )

tropic canyon
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i wouldnt say its impossible

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i just dont think its feasible to find the things that will balance things while we are in the state of playtests

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theres too many variables and not enough time to invest in finding what attachments or base stats of specific guns should be buffed/nerfed to level out the playing field since you need to be meticulous when balancing or else the game just gets annoying

plain kiln
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Thats absolutely reasonable, i might have overexadurated a bit 😆 , blessings to the dev team regardless, i'd say they are doing an amazing job so far

fleet quarry
fleet quarry
tropic canyon
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people can keep complaining about current gun balance but nothing will change so you just need to deal with it will 6 months from now when maybe some stuff gets looked at

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also although it may feel annoying, but a lot of okis counter argument is "skill issue"

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which is fine so really everyone just needs to keep playing and just try to have fun. i dont think the gun balance ruins the enjoyment i get out of playing it with friends or solo as much as other games

plain kiln
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People will always find a reason to complain anyway BBcool

fleet quarry
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Fr. If you look for problems, you will find them.

lament hornet
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feels there's genuinely too many different attachments that are in the game for no other reason than "it had a cool model that we wanted to use"

fleet quarry
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The only way they can make all attachments matter is make them affect more stats, such as control or walkspeed and stuff.

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The URK has a lot of utility rn because it can reduce reload speed and it reduces recoil by a decent amount. We need more of that, but for other stats besides reload speed.

lament oak
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it has the fastest TTK out of all of the ARs

lament oak