Helicopter Flight Model

[twilit scaffold]

I'm more than excited that helicopters are being added to this game. Aircraft should add an additional dimension of gameplay that is difficult yet rewarding. I'm worried that the flight model in this game is going to be subpar. It is a necessity that BattleBit Remastered releases with a helicopter that has common sense flight characteristics. For inspiration look at games like Arma 3 or even Rust (MiniCopters/Scrappys) even though the two work in very different ways they share some things in common i.e newtons 1st law. A helicopter (especially transport) has weight, a lot of weight. It shouldn't be snappy at all. I'll link a clip of a video I created showing some good flight models and some poor ones, in the end I critique the current flight model BBR has sneak peaked. Basically the reason I bring this up is I just don't want to be let down like I was when Squad released helicopters. Such a good game but terrible flight controls/flight model. Not saying developing a good flight model is easy, but it needs to be good enough to where it doesn't feel like your flying around a spaceship. Curious to see if y'all agree. Thanks! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGUulIP3rGU

[kind girder]

Nice ted talk

[twilit scaffold]

Thanks

[devout gyro]

This man speaks the truth.

[full basin]

Bottom one look cooler

Would be funny to see them flying at 90°

[sullen sorrel]

it is still a wi[

p

[twilit scaffold]

I'm aware, just pointing out what I've seen so far and hope to point the dev towards some good examples..

[sullen sorrel]

yeah i agree

[restive kettle]

I think oki shouldn't make helis in BBR feel like helis in Arma or Squad, but a Black Hawk that weights like 7 tons definitely shouldn't have physics of a littlebird from bf4 like it does now

[astral raft]

@twilit scaffold you know that oki tried to do bf4 physics

[astral raft]

Yeah it should be much heaviwr

[timid depot]

This can be achieved by having the flight model be 100% physics/thrust-vector based with some acceleration that simulates the "weight" of the heli. The drag can be simulated by a simple drag formula and some small adjustments.
I am almost sure the current model is not physics based at all, it honestly feels like a placeholder model and I'd really like for it to change as well.

[hushed orbit]

Roach apprroves 100%

[timid depot]

@twilit scaffold would this be accurate?

I'd guess this is the simplest "realistic" model that can be done

[polar terrace]

the idea of going 90 is to give yourself the momentum that gives you the most speed. if you want to avoid using the weight of the heli to give yourself more speed sure a slight tilt works. but doing the 90 tilt with a small dive before leveling out gives you a huge boost in momentum and speed

it is realistic

now flying consistently at 90 is stupid and shouldnt be a thing

but short controlled dives at 90 to give a increase to speed is gud

this is how Battlefield 4 handled its flight mechanics

and we can all say bf4 had the best heli flight mechanics out of any game released to date

both in how responsive the controls felt aswell as how fun it was to master the flight in bf4

[devout gyro]

Stretch

[polar terrace]

not even a stretch

its fact

no one can go play bf4 and say its flight mechanics arent the best

spend like 30 mins on any map in a little bird

then switch to the transport chopper and just FEEL the added weight that gives the transport a different flight style

and realise how much depth they pumped into it

[twilit scaffold]

Imma be honest I haven't played a lot of BF4 so I'm not familiar with that flight model. I did play BF3 and the flight model was better than lets say squad IMO. My main concern is that when a heli is put into a dive, and speed is gained, when you level out it is completely unrealistic for the aircraft to slow down instantly. (like as shown in the full video okidoki released). A helicopter with a shit ton of speed should be able to level out and continue moving pretty fucking fast with no angle at all. This is how it is in real life and is common sense (inertia). The only thing that slows down a helicopter with a lot of speed when its level is drag. IT would make more sense for the helicopter to have pitch upwards for speed to slowdown significantly, or other aerobatic maneuverers. Now to be fair to him I talked to him last night and it sounds like he has really no experience with flight sims, just BF4 and Squad. And he seems to appreciate the helis on squad. I have experience with DCS, Arma, and Squad. Squad being the absolute worst flight model I've seen throughout my hundreds of hours flying helis and other aircraft. (if you do a quick google search OR even test out some other games with helis you can see how different and terrible squad is compared to the rest). A helicopter needs to have weight, drag, lift, and more. I just hope OkiDoki plays some other fantastic games with helicopters to gain inspiration on how to tweak his current flight model. Because if I have to fly looking right at the ground to go forwards how the hell am I supposed to see what's beyond.

[twilit scaffold]

Agree with everything you said. The problem here is some people have no idea how helicopter physics work and thats the issue. There are multiple ways of gaining speed in a heli but none of the ways include maintaining a 90 degree angle forever. Well said.

[twilit scaffold]

I agree 100%. Unfortunately while talking to OkiDoki last night I asked him if the flight model was set for the time being and he said it was. Now nothing impossible so I hope he sees this thread and realizes that it can definitely be improved upon. Being a pilot in a game should be a challenge and the players how understand flight more than others will be valued more if a correct flight model is implemented.

[twilit scaffold]

Looks pretty good. Im no Math major but as long as there's newtons 1st law Im good with it.

[polar terrace]

I have several hundred hours on battlefield 4 xbox one and a few hundred on ps3 where most of my time was spent flying helis or sniping pilots out of them. So I'm very passionate about how good bf4's flight is

And ive also flown in arma,squad,dcs, coughs blood call of duty and a few other titles

I also spent thousands of hours flying in Eve onlines ps3 exclusive title Dust 514 which had similar flight mechanics as bf4 where there where no mechanical heli's in the game all of its flying vehicles where all thrust/hover based and used the exact same mechanics as a heli. Tilt forward = faster speed as you fall then level out to retain speed and keep going. Dust 514 was basically a space esk battlefield title

I still cry knowing Dust 514 will never see the light of day again despite it being one of my all time favorite games

[sullen sorrel]

Fr, bf4 flight was amazing, I want to fly under bridges, tight spaces to show off my piloting skills from bf4 scout heli experience

[polar terrace]

I loved flying in the hanger

[sullen sorrel]

Same, anything to avoid lock ons

Under the bridges on paracel storm

And the hangars on silk road

Between every nook and cranny on every map lol, it was almost impossible to shoot me down other than a lucky rpg shot

[prisma anchor]

I fly helicopters on DCS, lets just say Helicopters will want to crash and burn if you try looking down at a 90 degree angle, at certain altitudes sure you can do that but its more effective to tilt the rotar forward and then move forward utilizing that.

thats another reason why Helicopter rotor's tilt forward, backwords, sideways etc.

(I fly the Hind, Apache, Huey)

[fading brook]

Decent helo physics doesn't have to be CPU intensive either. I've implemented it (albeit simplified version) and it works on mobile too. Someone even modded BattleBit: Vietnam mode into my game with Heuys and all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHwTRL3Mj4w

I could help on implementation too. My only gripe with Battlebit is its too client-sided - I don't think intrusive anti-cheat is a good solution. Though maybe that's the only way to get 250+ player battles.

[polar terrace]

why did you link a random vid with nothing pertaining to the conversation.... and wtf are you on about anti cheat this conversation is about the heli flight model

[twilit scaffold]

I only have huey experience on DCS. Its funny to me how many people have no idea how helicopters feel to fly. (Assuming that dcs is as close to real as it gets.) A lot of people cant determine Arcady flight models from accurate ones or anything in between for that matter. Honestly this thread is a lost cause for the time being seeing how Oki is pretty much almost all done with the heli development. I guess time will only tell if the flight model is any good.

[twilit scaffold]

Yea honestly those heli physics looked not bad for what it is. I honestly cant form an opinion just from watching a video. Also why is there a biplane in your vietnam game. I'm aware the north vietnamese had An-2's but that hoe in the video looked like a ww1 sopwith lol

[sullen sorrel]

strong arguments

[tired knot]

Would like to see something like the "advanced flight model" options, having a simpler control as the default. Rewarding better players with more control of the aircraft, while not making the new players completely avoid flying or crashing 4 seconds after takeoff.

[misty radish]

Crashing 4 seconds after take off is what made me keep coming back in bf4 until i figured it out.

[tired knot]

Definitely should allow players to practice at the range

[sullen sorrel]

that would be nice

[twilit scaffold]

I concur

[devout gyro]

If anyone crashes the helis how they are now, they should just quit.

[misty radish]

I mean when you go to land its pretty difficult to get a "soft" landing. The decel has no momentum its basically just an on off switch of if you are going down. It very easy to just slam it straight down. Now to be fare they have enough health that its generally not a problem but that does still count as crashing.