#gun conversations.

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

serene wadi
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We have all those guns in our suggested guns sheet. So How about we talk about the ones we already have? Ill start. I feel that some guns need tweaks to animations and behaviors. Example: Support rifle, L86A1- Its slow reload plays two bolt foreword animations instead of one or the other. However its fast mag drop reload plays only one of them. How does that make sense? Its using the same bolt home animation as the M4 in both reloads but an extra one for the slow reload is added on to increase the time before ready.

M200_Is_fine..png
latent basalt
serene wadi
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Sniper glint will get fixed over time. To the detriment of the class or not.

hot prawn
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sniper glint is great, nerf the m200 in a meaningful way

digital lily
bronze wraith
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Just use a 4x scope, you can see plenty and don’t get a glint

digital lily
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The M200 should slowly sink down/rise upwards while aiming down sights while standing. And even if it is rested against something, the recoil should be enough to cause the player to get kicked back off their ledge/rock —or at least disrupt their ability to make a follow-up shot.

What this will effectively end up doing is make finding the player via glint that much harder, even if they missed their initial shot.
....and to give players an incentive to use this gun regardless of such caveats: the M200's rounds should have overpenetrating capabilities on upto 4 consecutive targets.

digital lily
past void
digital lily
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That's too real-lifey

serene wadi
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I made that little paint cut up in the beginnings to point out that the gun itself is a heavy monster. Weight stops recoil. You can compare it to the anti tank rifle made by the Germans In WW1 the rifle could only be fired from prone. This is shown in BF1 the M200 should have some small animation tweaks to at least reflect that’s it’s heavy and long.

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I’ll make more cut ups when I don’t have work.

runic oak
# digital lily That's too real-lifey

The way I see is that the game is supposed to have low poly graphics with good and detailed gameplay features. What he's pointing out is totally valid

serene wadi
hot prawn
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everyone is using it because it is statistically superior in every way

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highest projectile velocity and highest damage

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with absolutely zero tradeoffs

latent basalt
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low mag cap and slow gun

serene wadi
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@digital lily @hot prawn

hot prawn
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why did you at me

digital lily
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Well, irl, a bullet will cause near-lethal damage no matter what gun its fired from

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whether its a glock or an m4

serene wadi
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1: because if i just mentione Dplus then we would both come to an agreement on something and no one else would have any other perspective, 2: because your right about the M200 in my view, I wanted to see your reaction to the image i posted.

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Sorry in advance if it was ill timed.

hot prawn
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no I just mean

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if there was a specific reason

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as for the picture, it's a deep rabbit hole
if you balance off real-world stats you can't accurately or effectively balance the in-game weapons around things like ergonomics or portability
it's quite clear it's not being done as it stands which is something I'm largely ambivalent towards
as much as I'd like there to be a sort of intuitive connection between caliber, damage, recoil and so on, this poses more problems than it solves

serene wadi
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And I agree with this point of view. I'd like it, the weapons the use the same ammo to be around the same damage but not exact. And the weapons defects to be some place else other the damage.

green urchin
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Cope. It’s a literal block game with guns it’s not hyper realistic, if you want that you can go play arma

serene wadi
kind dome
# serene wadi

There this extremely hard to grasp concept called "game balance", you might be able to find a thing or two about the topic on Google.com

serene wadi
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And im saying other ways to game balance exist.

kind dome
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Like what?
Making in game currency and sell stronger weapons at a high price to balance their "better performance"?

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Either you do that or you hit the realism part

serene wadi
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Feather touch. Attachments make the weapon, not the weapon themselves. If the weapons are normalized. And attachments make slightly higher changes to weapon behavior, we can have weapons like the Famas, ACR, And 556 all doing different roles for each map. Famas has a high rate of fire, It should be uncontrollably after the first 3 rounds on auto, slap on a heavy barrel, long foregrip, and a 2.5 times scope, Got gets better automatic control, but its slower to move with and draw, switch the heavy for a long, switch the long foregrip with a canted grip and put a 2x red dot on it, Gun hands better in between.

kind dome
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Cuz most weapons that shoot the same (or similar) caliber shoot a lot slower

serene wadi
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This is true, But Famas is only king in CQC if no ones using a CQC built SMG or another Famas, or a (properly) Designed L86 or 249. Giving players the ability to customize weapons removes the meta guns and makes meta builds for guns. Which people can find something over time that doesn't have to be the greatest but makes them happy to use that weapon in a way they enjoy.

kind dome
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So making an overcomplicated and harder (if not IMPOSSIBLE cuz muh realism) to balance system is better than just tweaking the values of the weapons directly?

serene wadi
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I think your overthinking how simple or hard the system might be. You have a point. I agree. But if more weapons are added in, even more weapons will be trash canned in a short time on EA or full release some day unless something is done.

kind dome
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Something will be done. The current balancing makes no sense

serene wadi
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That is true. But i still wanna post stuff about the guns we have because I can. Ill make more pictures because is something to do

green urchin
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"ooooo the pixel on my screen isnt in the exact right location and doing the perfect thing like in real life, oh wait a minute, the game is a low-res shooter and the devs have more important things to worry about"

serene wadi
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gun conversations.

past void
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@green urchin no need to trash talk people like that.

serene wadi
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Thank you Perseus but it’s fine. He had his point of view which didn’t help the conversation. So I won’t give his opinion any thought.

hot prawn
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one can wonder why a game that attempts a certain level of fidelity would ignore other aspects

serene wadi
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Can you give some examples of what’s being ignored in your point of view? Because I wander if they are more widely shared then just one or two people.

hot prawn
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mag capacities, round remaining in the chamber across reloads (e.g. 30+1) etc etc

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there's one thing in particular that irritates me to no end and it's how the end of the reload animation and when you're actually ready to fire has this awful disconnect

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like it feels like there's a huge gap where the game is just not letting you fire when the animation is in the last frames but it looks as though it's finished, it feels awful

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it's probably varied between guns

serene wadi
# hot prawn mag capacities, round remaining in the chamber across reloads (e.g. 30+1) etc et...

I expressed this as an issue with my he animation having a disconnect between animation of reload to ready, they don’t end exactly on the bolt home point. It ends when the guns exactly at fully ready.

I don’t think they devs are aware that weapons can be fired before they are properly set back in your shoulder. But yeah you are sharing some of my issues. 30+1 should be a thing, that would make sense to the fast reload and slow reload.

Also I’ve noticed that some guns need some attachments that aren’t added yet. Sad. :/

slate radish
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So what hes saying is make every gun be a 1 or 2 shot kill

hot prawn
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who's saying that

slate radish
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Op

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Bc he wants realism

serene wadi
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You do know almost all the guns beside a small number such as the 308/7.62 guns wouldn’t break threw modern body armor? You wanna try to two shot kill someone in full modern body armor, you use AP 308. Meaning your using a heavier battle rifle, not an assault rifle like the M4

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That’s Tarkov levels of realistic.

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I don’t mean to go that far.

hot prawn
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that said we were in damage model realism territory earlier this year before drop off was tweaked and it was fucking awesome

serene wadi
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It was from what I heard. But that was reverted wasn’t it?

hot prawn
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I seem to recall something being partially or wholly reverted but rifles were doing full damage way past their current ranges I'm fairly certain

serene wadi
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That was the AR nerf. Or what was said to be a nerf. It really didn’t effect much in my view. Yes AK/ M4 could t reach out and 5 shot snipers on top of buildings 700 ms away. But as I pointed out with the Dana’s in the image I made. The guns effective range is around 500 meters.

hot prawn
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ah the bullet velocity nerf is what was reverted

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but the damage falloff is still in place

serene wadi
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Yeah. thats right.

hot prawn
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playing valley before that change was glorious

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some dude tried to snipe and fifteen guys just turn around and start taking potshots

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plinking away with ARs

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the AK15 was an absolute monster

serene wadi
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Still is but its not as highly rated as it once was.

serene wadi
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talk of the honey badger getting a new look prompted this.

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@austere gulch Want me to get the Vector Data next?

austere gulch
serene wadi
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Ill make it up tomorrow then.

austere gulch
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i want an even more OP vector!!!

serene wadi
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Kriss Vector SBR is in 300AC which is what the honey badger is chambered in. but it was never actually built. Ill see if i can find it.

austere gulch
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OOOOO

serene wadi
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sadly this is just the 45 ACP model, the 300 black out one is only in peoples dreams and 3D models.

Kriss-Vector-CRB.png
serene wadi
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Is it weird how much Oki and Larry got right with some of the guns yet left some really crazy wrongs in them?

hot prawn
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10mm vector 🤤

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10mm mp5 🤩🤩🤩

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anyway feels like some guns should literally just be skins for existing guns

serene wadi
# hot prawn 10mm mp5 🤩🤩🤩

You do understand that 10mm SMG's are very uncommon. partly because the rounds are very uncommon choices. A slightly larger 9mm round with just that little extra powder to give it a 40's punch.

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10 mm rounds. All hollow and solid slug bullets. Its to slow for Armor penetratingly rounds. They are hella chuck rounds tho.

hot prawn
serene wadi
hot prawn
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they had to cut it down because women and wimps in the FBI couldn't handle the recoil HyperXD

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and thus the .40 S&W (some call it the Short & Wimpy) was born

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hot loads are more powerful than .45 ACP

serene wadi
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yes. Now lets make the vector shot 40S&W for a playtest and see how fast people drop it for something else.

hot prawn
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10mm is essentially just a really cool round

serene wadi
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I found 10mm tracer hollow point rounds. Um... 100$ a box? NO FUCK THANKS!

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10mm is costly as fuck. Why!? Facepalm_Battlebit

hot prawn
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More powerful loadings can basically equal the highest performing .357 Magnum loads, and retain more kinetic energy at 100 yards than the .45 ACP has at the muzzle.

serene wadi
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OH no. @austere gulch Bully OKI to make the next SMG a 10MM SMG.

hot prawn
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the sig220 comes in 10mm also

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and there's a few glawks

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not to mention all the 1911-patterned pistols chambered in 10

serene wadi
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^^When 10MM gun comes out^^

serene wadi
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D: I cant find any other SMG's that use 10MM outside the vector and UMP. wut!?

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10mm colt revolver tho... 👀

hot prawn
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mp5

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had a 10mm variant

serene wadi