How armor ACTUALLY WORKS

[spice atlas]

Basically:

~~-If the armor damage is LOWER than the armor current HP, the damage is fully blocked.

-If the armor damage is HIGHER than the armor current HP, the armor will only block damage based on it REMAINING HP, and the player will receive the leftover ARMOR damage (so if a weapon deals 25 armor damage and you shot an armor with 12hp, you will deal 13 damage cuz 25-12=13). ~~

-The headshot multiplier is applied BEFORE the armor reduction, so helmets take increased damage for cuz Oki said so

~~-The NORMAL damage is NOT USED as long as you hit armor, only the ARMOR damage, which is kinda stupid imo especially when some weapons have very different values for both stats.

-ONE VERY SUPID AND BROKEN EXAMPLE: If you're using the Unica and you shoot an enemy to the FACE, you'll deal 72 damage. HOWEVER, if they're wearing a helmet that has 1hp left and you hit the HELMET, you'll deal 107 damage and ONE-TAP them.~~

ARMOR HAS BEEN UPDATED https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1059629722931302501

[azure lodge]

Thank you Naro!

[vivid crown]

He kept shooting me for his 'tests'.

[silver peak]

So a gun that deals 40 dmg to the chest would deal 28 damage to a person with 12 durability armor

[spice atlas]

Thanks for your service

[spice atlas]

If the weapon deals 40 ARMOR damage

[silver peak]

yes

[spice atlas]

cuz if you hit the armor and the armor breaks, it deals the remaining ARMOR damage to the player, which is dumb

[silver peak]

okay

that makes sense I think

I'm updating the ttk calc

[azure lodge]

post the link here when you're done please :)

[silver peak]

Not sure it will let me but ill figure it out

[silver peak]

Do we know what happens when armor damage equals armor durability

Also when does armor break

[spice atlas]

it blocks and breaks

[spice atlas]

doesn't matter

either the armor breaks or it stays on with 0 hp and then breaks without blocking damage

in practice it doesn't matter

[silver peak]

So the damage would be fully blocked

[spice atlas]

Yes

[silver peak]

Wait

Dumb question

So there are two things that matter in armor: armor durability and armor hp

No wait

If I'm getting this correctly, armor can only be used like once

Let's say, hypothetically, that I shoot a gun that deals 4 armor damage

And my armor durability is 12

The armor will block all incoming damage, and the durability will go down to 8

Do I have that correct?

[spice atlas]

yes

armor hp is just a value that goes down and can't be recovered, so different armors just have a "maximum" durability, which is the starting durability.

[silver peak]

Isn't that basically just the old system

Verbatim

[spice atlas]

Yes, but the values were all fucked lmao

[silver peak]

🤦‍♂️

So I don't have to change anything

[twilit ivy]

very weird

[spice atlas]

It's nonsensical.
First: when armor breaks, it should deal normal damage.
Second: headshot multiplier should be added AFTER the helmet breaks

[knotty flame]

if damage is bigger on the hs mult.?

[spice atlas]

Right now it deals armor damage to the player when it breaks and the headshot multiplier is added before everything

[spice atlas]

The hs multiplier is added to the armor damage

that's why the deagle deals 71 damage against Exo helmet

[twilit ivy]

Oki why did you do it like this

[spice atlas]

It's (90x1.2)-37

so 108-37

BRUH

snipers deal more damage against helmets than against no helmet

[twilit ivy]

oki was high af I guess

[knotty flame]

so if I shoot I a person with a weapon that deals to 25 A-Damage, who has a 12 durability helmet, I will deal 23.4 damage to him after destroying his Helmet with a weapon that has 1.8 hs multiplier, is that right?

[spice atlas]

for example:
70 damage and 90 armor damage
70x1.7 = 119
against 25hp helmet
90x1.7 - 25 = 128

[spice atlas]

No, it will deal 33

it's 25x1.8 - 12

[vital furnace]

Goofy ahh

[spice atlas]

45-12

[knotty flame]

man instead of a spreadsheet

there needs to be a damage calculator what tarkov has 🗿

[spice atlas]

If you hit the armor, you take the armor damage, apply the HS multiplier when valid, then you subtract that value from the armor hp. If there's leftover damage, it's dealt to the player

[vital furnace]

So tldr 12hp helmet is actually dogshit even with noarmor helmet nerf

[knotty flame]

what other system would be better to have?

[vital furnace]

At this point just no armor

Or yoink wz armor idfk

[silver peak]

It gives you 12 extra health

basically I think

[vital furnace]

It's already wack enough that you can't repair your 12hp armor that breaks from a stray crossmap 9mm

[knotty flame]

i feel like armour mechanic will need a revamp

[spice atlas]

It can save you from a deagle headshot

[knotty flame]

like if enemy shoots your armour you gain back speed and loose the mags for example, and fix this

[vital furnace]

If I'm in deag range you're bold to assume i still have my helmet

[spice atlas]

I talked to Larry about this and he considered it

[vital furnace]

But it's a plate carrier 💀

[azure lodge]

meanwhile i'm too smoothbrained. weapon go brrrrrrr

[knotty flame]

watch the video.
When he shoots the vest the whole vest and magazine will dissapear

[vital furnace]

Make hand cannons great again

[silver peak]

Are all the multipliers 1.5, 1.2 and 1.9

[vital furnace]

Yk no armor engi has literally no mags yet +4 mag capacity

[spice atlas]

Visually speaking yes, but it shouldn't actually disappear cuz, realistically, the whole armor vest doesn't fall off when it breaks

[vital furnace]

A Romanian stole the vest

[spice atlas]

So you would carry dead weight

but for better clarity, it disappears

[knotty flame]

than i feel like it should visually stay because if you have a ranger vest. sniper shot your vest of and you still have 12 mags with no vest makes no sense.
That means in bbr universe everybody has a wormhole in their pockets to store equipment

[spice atlas]

That could be it as well

just let it stay

make so only the helmets go flying off

[vital furnace]

Then I mald because I can't tell what their armor is at

[azure lodge]

Naro doing gods work

[vital furnace]

Not like I could tell before but yk

[spice atlas]

It's 13:27 here rn 🗿

[vital furnace]

3am here

[spice atlas]

happy new year

future man

gimme my mousepad

[azure lodge]

well there are a few more calculations to make. noone said you were done for today

[vital furnace]

Fuck you I'll introduce another covid variant

[spice atlas]

Nah, we figured it out

[vital furnace]

[azure lodge]

happy nye OCE shitter

[spice atlas]

Do it, pussy, no balls

[vital furnace]

🗿

[spice atlas]

I can't type

I have a rare case of dystypea

I missinput

I can't be a typewriter

[silver peak]

Alright

I updated the calculator

[marble blaze]

Do you gain movement speed when your armor breaks off?

[silver peak]

No all the buffs and stuff of the equipped armor stays on

even after it broke

[marble blaze]

so it's no wonder why speed is dominating BBR's meta

speed is permanent, armor is temporary

[vivid crown]

That's deep.

[marble blaze]

that and the fact that headshots on armored targets deal too much damage atm

[silver peak]

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VO651fC40HJ8Ipy2QBP1wDUYZA2sdKyJPekUTWp0nyQ/edit#gid=0

Here it is

The TTK/shot calculator

[azure lodge]

damn he's good

[snow crest]

Yeah that's why I don't wear helmets as assault anymore

Nice find tho

[shrewd fjord]

im able to 1 tap someone with the unica if they have a helmet with 1hp and 100 body hp BUT not be able to 1 tap someone if they dont have a helmet and 100 body hp 😭

[silver peak]

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VO651fC40HJ8Ipy2QBP1wDUYZA2sdKyJPekUTWp0nyQ/edit#gid=1579915881

I urge anyone interested in this stuff to look at the WEAPON COMPARE section

reposting because updated

[vital furnace]

Ok bozo

[normal torrent]

so this is why the FAL is broken

[covert stream]

im confused, what is L armor damage and H armor damage?

[twilit ivy]

light and heavy

I think its for vehicles

[spice atlas]

Vehicle damage

[twilit ivy]

naro go to https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1058646854918746172

[covert stream]

ah ty ty <3

[spice atlas]

#1058646854918746172 message

Oki changed it, we'll test soon

[vivid crown]

You free now?

[obtuse ibex]

@vivid crownamong us

[spice atlas]

No, but will be soon

1h tops

[vivid crown]

Alright.

No rush.

[hallow carbon]

A few questions:

1. Is the armor hitbox taken into account when hit?
2. What is the damage coefficient when hitting arms and feet?
3. If the armor durability drop to 0, does the armor model change or disappear?
4. How much health does a player with 62 armor have? 62 armor + 100 normal HP?

[vivid crown]

1. Yes.
2. Good question. No idea.
3. It disappears, damage is dealt directly to the player without any reduction.
4. 100 always, no matter the class or armor.

[hallow carbon]

4. 62+38 ?

[vivid crown]

62 + 100 normal HP

[hallow carbon]

ok

[wild crescent]

#dev-wip message and its updated

[vital furnace]

im free

[vital furnace]

1x

arms and legs dont have limb multi

[wild crescent]

Naro the goat no cap

[primal vortex]

In what way was it broken?

[normal torrent]

damage type registered

i believe it did more damage to armor than FLESH

and if someone was wearing armor, it would only register the armor damage type instead of the soft target damage type

everyone wears armor

[primal vortex]

I think it had a bit less armour damage than health damage

[normal torrent]

i dont remember

[primal vortex]

But I don’t remember it strongly enough to argue anyhow, and I got what you meant in any case

Cheers

[silver peak]

Fal deals 30 to armor, 40 to body

[primal vortex]

Right, so on all the armour bros I’ll deal 16.5% more DPS, hand waving math away

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you too, Oki

[vivid crown]

Yes, FAL effectively got a huge dps boost.

[twilit ivy]

mm the g36c too a little bit

[winter ridge]

so the way I am understanding this, armor damage works like this now:

Armor health remaining - Body Damage (after all multipliers are applied)

If this is the case, then all sniper rifles will no longer 1 shot headshot armor unless you M200 or MSR at 1000+ meters...

IMO this kinda kills the recon class

[twilit ivy]

good

[vital furnace]

all snipers will still 1 shot because of goofy ahh 2x headshot multi

at least they should 🗿

[winter ridge]

I just tested pure body damage on shooting range dummies

even with m200 heavy barrel, dms is like ~140 with headshot

[vital furnace]

snipers could never 1 shot body 🗿

[silver peak]

yeah they could

but at long ranges

[vital furnace]

and they still can

[winter ridge]

means 100 armor-140 dmg = 40 dmg to body

[vital furnace]

because goofy ahh reverse falloff

[normal torrent]

welp. Rem got nerfed

[silver peak]

dms?

[normal torrent]

from 90 to 65 damage

[vital furnace]

rem cant 1 shot exo helms

[normal torrent]

i want to cry

[vital furnace]

goofed

[silver peak]

Unica players rn

[vital furnace]

unica was already shit

now its a scam

[silver peak]

None of the snipers are 1 shot body anymore

dmrs got a small nerf too

groza does 27 now

[vital furnace]

115

[silver peak]

Okay sure

Tbh if you can snipe someone from 900m away you deserve a 1 shot

[primal vortex]

Was just saying that to a pal in another chat

If someone as much as hits me from a kilometre

I’ll be glad to gift them the frag

[normal torrent]

and now I know why I was able to oneshot people with REM700

with a heavy barrel, the damage was 99 to armor

[silver peak]

If they are a support or if they are using 25 body armor it wouldn’t be a 1 shot though

[normal torrent]

so if the first hit doesnt kill them, the bleeding will

[vital furnace]

except the bleeding wont

[normal torrent]

+Headshot Multiplier

[primal vortex]

Does support have more HP?

[vital furnace]

no

[silver peak]

better armor

[normal torrent]

how much armor did helmets give?

[primal vortex]

Ah

[silver peak]

0-12 for not support players

[primal vortex]

I should probably try playing the other classes at some point

[silver peak]

dude i’m like 100% assault

it’s sad

[primal vortex]

Assault is hella sad in this game

When engineer seems to be basically the HA of PS2

And what killed that game was the devs not fixing HA until 60% of infantry players became HA OTPs

And then they couldn’t nerf it because half of their MTX cash flow was from HA bros

[silver peak]

Hear me out, the assault class should do exactly what medics do for health but instead for ammo

[normal torrent]

yes

[vital furnace]

they already do

[normal torrent]

they should be a planetside2 Engineer

[silver peak]

no like “right click to refill ammo” type thing

With same xp bonus

well maybe not same xp bonus

[winter ridge]

Dmg

[silver peak]

ah

[bold pulsar]

ah yes, so when i did the video about armor and you scolded me for being incorrect, i was acutally correct. anyways, at least now its confirmed how it works. also, just in time before armor dmg was removed

[twilit ivy]

xd

[stark root]

panicking now that oki may have fixed my ability to click heads with impunity

[primal vortex]

it's okay, just admit that you were carried by revolvo

[stark root]

I'm a deaglechad actually

[spice atlas]

Oki told me how it worked, turns out Oki himself was wrong

[silver peak]

Poor oki

Man is doing game balance, networking, animation, game integrity, bug fixing, advertising, management, financials, and business all at the same time

If I were him I would use the community for free labor to the fullest extent

There are so many people who would be willing to help for 0 cost

[spice atlas]

Well, we just got the tool for testing

[silver peak]

We did?

[spice atlas]

"we" as in "me and some friends" cuz we are friends with the only other person that can host a server lmao

[silver peak]

lmao

well that's exactly my point

free labor

people will test stuff for you

[winter ridge]

Same, but in my case, it's with snipers

Am I a recon bot? IDK, Maybe

But damn it's fun

[spice atlas]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/328817840025108484/1059270943505129492/Unica_can_one_tap.mp4
He was full hp btw, I shot his helmet from far away enough to not break it, then the Unica one-tapped him

[silver peak]

tf

[primal vortex]

Well, it's what the OP says

Armour damage above HP damage combined with a HS multi

[silver peak]

I tried

It doesn't work

yet

[silver peak]

shots to kill with headshots and body shots dropdown

[strong sigil]

@silver peak has earned the Tier I Member role!

[silver peak]

what

[primal vortex]

It's a bot that counts your posts

And gives you levels for that

[silver peak]

Ah

[vital furnace]

[silver peak]

@spice atlas How accurately do you think you could test bullet damage dropoff

[bold pulsar]

i did it in a different game, its actually quite accurate

i guess depends on if you get lucky to guess the functional form of that dropoff

but parameter estimation is within like 1 m or so, so basicly also what one could test

[silver peak]

I still don’t understand why Oki didn’t just use linear interpolation

why cubic

why

I wanna make sure that it is actually cubic first though

[marble blaze]

Cubic damage dropoff seems so arbitrary. You typically have linear dropoff from a min-range to a max-range, and it makes for a far more intuitive system that produces the same effect.

[silver peak]

And a lotttt easier

Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if it actually is linear, but the dropoff graphs have some smoothing

[bold pulsar]

all dropoff is arbitrary. i just hope its polynomial, thats kinda ez ^^

[bold pulsar]

that would make no sense, also thats something one can test in the shooting range

[silver peak]

I can’t test it accurately

Also I think the distance dropoff is based off of how far the bullet travelled and not how far you are from the target

[shrewd fjord]

wouldn’t that mean the same thing

to some degree

[marble blaze]

Assuming that the bullet travels in a curve instead of a straight line, that would mean that the bullet's travel distance is slightly longer than the distance between you and the target.

[normal torrent]

technically, its not really a curve until it starts to excessively lose energy. Its more of a straight line that slowly droops until it stops

Most game developers who attempt to code bullet drop....do the stupidest shit imaginable. They use the curvature of a circle.

using a "Golden Ratio" curvature makes better sense,

[spice atlas]

Drag is proportional to the speed^2, so the drop should be logarithmical, no?

[normal torrent]

yes, i was simplifying it

[normal torrent]

LMAO

[umbral bear]

What does L-Armor Damage do then?

Also what does the control stat represent

[normal torrent]

light armor?

how much damage does it do to light armor vs "normal" armor.

Control is basically weapon handling

[umbral bear]

Ok but then wats H-Armor Dmg

[normal torrent]

Heavy Armor

[umbral bear]

ah ok

but then in the picture above is it saying it does 90 dmg to normal armor and 30 dmg to light armor?

or is that 90 + 30

or is that 30 percecnt of 90

[normal torrent]

H-Armor probably constitutes as Vehicle Armor

[umbral bear]

i dont really get it

[normal torrent]

or light vehicle armor

Only Oki knows i guess

[umbral bear]

no but there is heavy armor i the game

that you can like wear

[vivid crown]

#1058646854918746172 message

Armor damage is for drones, rally points and etc.

[normal torrent]

Oh

that helps

[umbral bear]

wait so armor dmg isnt supposed to have anything to do with armor now?

is that only L-Armor and H-Armor thats not supposed to have anything to do with armor that you can wear

[vivid crown]

Actually, L-Armor and H-Armor is referencing vehicles not players.

Body damage is what it deals to player armor. At the moment player's armor is just extra hp on top of the normal 100hp everyone has.

[umbral bear]

ok and Armor dmg is referencing to players

oh

[vivid crown]

#1058752982516236420 message

[umbral bear]

ok yh so theyve changed the way the armor works from when you first started this thread

[vivid crown]

Armor is for breakable stuff that's not players or vehicles.

[umbral bear]

post*

ok yh

[vivid crown]

👍

[umbral bear]

so theres no more like doing more dmg if they wear armor than if they dont now?

[vivid crown]

Correct.

Now it's a lot more consistent.

[umbral bear]

aight sic sorry Ive been trying to catch up since i recently started playign again

[winter ridge]

quick question: what determines how much armor (in health units) somebody has?

Is it that the durability stat of the helmet or body armor vest somebody is wearing that determines how much armor (essentially added health) a piece of armor has?

Or is it something else?

[silver peak]

Well yes but not like that

It is the helmet and chest armor, but they don’t combine to a pool of armor health

If you shoot someone and it hits the armor hitbox, the armor takes the damage, and anything extra goes to the player

If you don’t hit the armor, all of it goes to the player

[vivid crown]

Durability.

Each piece has a different values, and that's straight up their health values.

But that's only if you actually hit the armor.

[winter ridge]

But since there is no armor dmg stat now, the armor essentially functions as extra health for that body part (head or body respectively)

Correct?

[vivid crown]

Yes.

[winter ridge]

Thank you guys @vivid crown @silver peak

[silver peak]

Yeah. I mean it technically already did, just some guns shot more or less damage into them. But they removed that

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SQxm5SQELYQzgmbZB_z4-N9Dz4EEcOOqb17Q1QmMRgE/edit?usp=sharing

I'm pretty proud of this one

[silver peak]

I tested the damage dropoff for the M4A1. This is the result

[silver peak]

It also looks like damage dropoff drops to 35% of the original damage on ARs

for SMGs it's 30%

[topaz flicker]

bro got desmos out💀

[torn kelp]

The Infantry armor in BBR is really weird.

[topaz flicker]

sorry this aint tarkov

[spice atlas]

https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1059629722931302501
Armor update just dropped, guys

[silver peak]

You scared me

[spice atlas]

lmao why