What's the deal with shotguns?

[plain marlin]

Probably been asked a few thousand times in various places, but why aren't there any shotguns in the game currently? Is it being put on hold for balancing/programming issues, or axed indefinitely?

Genuinely curious, asking around hasn't got me anything except maybe getting called gay for liking buckshot a few times.

[stark plover]

There are no shotguns, because they are hard to balance, and get right.. So, currently, there's no plans to add them, but that's not to say way, way, way down the line, things may change..

[sacred loom]

I think this means that shottys are v stronk.
Biden would not have told people to buy one otherwise, right?
While I say this in jest, there are many other things in BBR which need work

[plain marlin]

I will wait as long as I need to in order to run my benelli meme dream build from bf4, if waiting is what I need for said build to be balanced

[gusty basin]

I'd say the issue with BBR and shotguns is that most map are pretty open (when compared to BF, say)
So either you make Shotguns lethal up to medium range, but then they'd be pretty overpowered, or you go the CoD way and make them shoot confetti beyond 10m, which would be quite useless in this game...

Seems like it's impossible to win

[stoic dune]

People who use ARs will use them in sometimes mid range often close quarters.
People who use SMG will use them close quarters.
People who use shotguns will use them close quarters.

When I use an AK or Any other AR I rarely use it for mid range, I mostly use it in the distance of scratching your opponents foot.

For the most of the rush 'n gun, shotguns would be suitable for that.

I wouldn't say it would be impossible to win with shotguns nor it would be easy, the only sad part in using them is you can't bully or annoy snipers by hitting them 8 damage with your AK.

[finite inlet]

It may be possible to balance this out in some special way, such as creating a new class that can carry both a submachine gun and a shotgun -- but at the cost of not being able to carry secondary weapons, only light armor, and a much reduced amount of special equipment (such as grenades or mines)

[stuck yew]

So here's the question.
How do they not edge out SMGs while also being viable in most maps instead of like
one

the only real way to make them workable at all also for some reason makes them unpalatable to people

which I find strange but ok

[neon jetty]

Sense the discord changed so i cant simple post a feedback for this playtest, This post seemed about right up the street i needed to talk about.

So. Why the hell not, lets have it. If we have SMG that do the same thing as shotguns, why not have them instead? People that don't use META guns might have a chance then.

This play test I died to either. SMG Sonic the hedge hog Running at 90 miles an hour and running loops around me because the game physically doesn't have a mouse sensitivity high enough to track them. Or to stock M4/AK starter guns which seem to be exactly back in the place OKI tried to fix. They cross map, they wall bag, they can kill a crowd. ALL like before the AR nerf, So why use anything else but SMG BRRRR gun that just wipes whole squads because High DPS rate and low reload time, OR your M4 with a dot and laser everyone earns in 3 hours of play. This is a feeling, Its a strong one and likely i died plenty to other people and other guns but what stood out was the troll squad running faster then i could track with the vector and other SMG's and mowing me and 7 other people down and taking a flag because they just ran threw and circled us. It felt abusive to the game systems at play.

Really. This was an infuriating play test this time around. I heard more frustration and whining(My self fully included) in this play test then ever before. I do not like that we are shifting closer to the BAD battle field community habits while the games isn't even release as early access.

Other issues. The new guns are nice. They felt ok, We need to fix and buff the LMG and support weapons to actually DO THE JOB THEY ARE BUILT FOR. Both the LMG and support rifle feel like trash to use, slow, bulky and weighted down for NO good reason. Its the only thing Support players have to use outside just using hand guns. Its such a tragic game play loop. Spawn in, try to aim at a dude, take 2 years to raise the gun into place, Die to his SMG from 300 meters away.

[stuck yew]

...you could just make your own post.

[neon jetty]

Nah this does some what support the post. If we had shotguns over SMG we might have a better or worse outcome.

[stuck yew]

we need overpowered bullshit to counter the overpowered bullshit
...
ok

[neon jetty]

It’s the play test. It just felt bad. It felt like if the people that used SMG got stuck with shotguns instead. I’d have had a better chance of getting out of the stupid bs they mange. High DPS guns don’t care about your range or damage fall off when they can dumb a full back out before you can lift your gun. Ah I’m bitching now.

[stuck yew]

hmm, fair

[stuck yew]

in my head shotguns are an ambush weapon for close quarters
they only require a few hits, and their spread remains constant whether aimed or hipfired, with a decently tight choke

however, at their maximum damage the highest damage pump action won't stop a guy wearing standard bodyarmor

[low tulip]

It feels like Oki just got rekt by shotguns one too many times in Battlefield and now he's salty or something lol

[stuck yew]

i do agree with him though
shotguns are kinda just eh

hmm yes oneshot kill in close quarters, this won't be frustrating at all

[low tulip]

I just don't understand how Battlefield managed it but BattleBit can't

[neon jetty]

Still happens. Its just SMG and 3 hits instead then the rest of your squad along with you. Frustrating.

[stuck yew]

fair

I think subgun damage is like, what, 2-3 hits to destroy bodyarmors and then another 3-4 to kill you?

[neon jetty]

They didn't manage it. They set a hard hap and told everyone. This how is be. Fuck you use what you get. "The campaign and other Stuff using shotguns kinda makes the use normal.

[stuck yew]

...they kind of didn't.
Iirc the M26 and DART ammo for the GL are still broken broken broken and the USAS 12 FRAG used to be brokenbrokenbroken

[neon jetty]

in total it takes 7 for a Sub to kill someone at 300 meters. thats 200 meters more then they should. Yet i was still getting dropped by UMP and vector Subs down roads well outside 150 meters away.

[stuck yew]

one option is to really fuck with their damage drop rate
another could be to reduce their armor damage significantly

[neon jetty]

Both of those are good ideas.

Which to choose is the question.

[low tulip]

Yeah I was referring to BF4, BF3 was kind of a mess lol. BF4 felt fine to me though, maybe that's because I played it on console.

[neon jetty]

Plus. Additionally. Not a lot of modern military forces use SMG's anymore. Mostly crew and pilots maybe. So we dont have a tone or real world info to draw on for combat.

[stuck yew]

Out of hand...

An assault rifle is the main weapon for a reason.

at up to 300m you can count on it remaining effective even against armored targets; a few hits will likely compromise armor if it even hits the plate, or cause significant wounds that are likely to incapacitate

submachine guns...

I believe you can put somewhere around a dozen hits of 9mm into modern trauma plates and the guy wearing it will sort of go "eh."

that said, the weapon is lighter, more compact, and overall a smaller form factor

but like, 9mm pistol is only supposed to be useful at like 50m range

[low tulip]

To be fair a lot of the fighting in the last couple decades has happened in the middle east and I don't think many of the insurgents wear plates and/or helmets lol

[neon jetty]

I feel that this should be a detriment, not a boost in my opinion. lighter guns are harder to control, and need smaller burst to keep stable. That is not how the guns currently are. You can Hold your sight on target on full auto without shifting much at all.

[stuck yew]

out of hand there have been some incidents, but that was around the beginning of the gulf war with the elite infantry units of various states
and i think some smuggled armorplates have shown up in the hands of insurgents
but other than that

yeah basically

[neon jetty]

Closest thing we can draw to comparison without bringing up The current war going on, is the Vietnam war which heavily used SMG in combat.

[stuck yew]

Yeah that seems to be for the best.
Something hard to keep on target, optimized for close quarters

the damage and instability are compensated for by sheer rate of fire, but their nature emphasizes skirmishing, taking 1-2 targets and then running off

alternatively as a weapon of last resort.

[neon jetty]

This would make the guns annoying but not as bad as this last playtest. If they could only manage to kill me and the dude next to me before having to run. It gives my team a chance. Which wasn't happening this round. The dude would buzz me, my dude next to me, and the four in the next room before sprinting away.

[stuck yew]

yeah but they'd be deeper in your team to be effective instead of next window over and such so forth

[neon jetty]

This is a fair point. makes me think how much id be swearing for my team to let someone get THAT close inside our lines to use an SMG effectively.

I still have that mental image in my head, Seeing the Nerd with his vector up the street on the new urban map, Blocks away, Shooting me accuracy with while i just put two rounds from an M110 into him and. I. STILL. LOOSE. :\

[sleek flare]

Well that's just because the DMRs are comically weak. When you get the heavy barrel on the M110 it can comfortably 2 shot to the body up to 500m whereas the majority of weapons now can't engage effectively past 150-300m. What that's telling you is you're playing DMR wrong. Play from 300-500m and 2 shot people, or switch to a closer ranged battle rifle like the scar-h or ak15 and tap fire at their head from 100-200m.
Also I feel like you're not aware how far away 100m is in game from your previous comments. The red box outlines a player sized model 100m away. If they're that close, they should be able to kill you almost instantly if you aren't in cover.
Most engagements in this game are shorter than 100m, unless you're playing recon and picking people off from further away with headshots.

To the original point of the thread, adding a weapon that is lethal up to 100m away but has spread (normally modelled as random), in a game where the majority of gunfights are closer range than this, means that a 1 hit weapon that doesn't require headshots, becomes impossible to add to a meta where ttk is always longer than the time of flight of 1 bullet and always shorter than the time to chamber a new shell in a pump action.
Either you're 1 shotting everyone before they can shoot back, or you're dying to someone who killed you after you hit them, because your gun is incapable of killing in 1 hit.
It just doesn't work and would be frustrating for everyone involved.

[gusty basin]

Yes, that's spot on.
Shotties would just be impossible to balance.

Either OP or useless, I can't see any doable in-between.

[stuck yew]

in my opinion, firefights aren't constantly cut and dry. I think there is a niche for shotguns as a short to midrange combat weapon with 2-3 hits.
their spread is tightened to real life levels and they can instantly destroy unarmored targets, but they struggle with armor.

[crude girder]

The only way I could see them getting balanced is to make them only have slugs, and since shotguns are smoothbore, some type of rng on longer shots.

Since buckshot isn't exactly gonna be effective against modern military body armor

[stuck yew]

DMRs can be used at shorter ranges, though. A two or three hit kill as long as the cycle time between shots isn't too slow can be competitive vs automatics imo

[trail dome]

Personally its the best to have no shotguns. They ruin every game their in I was wondering why this game felt perfect. Thanks for the answer.

[stoic dune]

"They ruin every game" you played every game that had shotgun in it?

[sudden matrix]

i think it would be more balanced if the game had massive maps like battlefield, this game has maps too small for shotguns, unlike COD for example, you can equip a SMG and melt someone in a microscopic amount of time, same as with shotguns, here though in battlebit, shotguns would just oneshot everyone in range

with scar for example, you can two or three shot someone, smgs i think are a little weak, atleast to my liking

its very balanced how it is this way, shotguns would shit the game instantly

[edgy sphinx]

better to make the support class have LMG and Shotgun since Support only has 2 weapons

[edgy sphinx]

My go-to setup was the DAO-12 with either Frag or Flechette

on nosehair canals

[stuck yew]

Im still of the opinion you could've extended kill times a little and modified shotguns for way tighter choke+less falloff

[edgy sphinx]

there's just something sexy about armor-piercing off-balance nails being fired from a shotgun

[cyan ridge]

shotguns are great and absolutely have a place in the game, it's exactly the kind of thing that armor already counters and a more realistic damage/spread model wouldn't be entirely unreasonable to see in BB for it to remain balanced

considering the ranges you can reliably get kills with the SMGs, any whining about shotguns is wholly unreasonable

[thin python]

I'll summarize my opinion of shotguns in one clip: https://clips.twitch.tv/FantasticWrongSardineKlappa-kl43-_jm2tEyPWFO

If that's not elaborate enough: No.

You gotta be trolling if you actually want this in BBR.

[cyan ridge]

looks like fun

but it also looks like standard DICE attempts at making a game

[hollow path]

shotgun overstrong in some CQB fight occasions

[sacred loom]

that's literally their purpose

that's why the americans brought them to the trenches

[thin python]

Yeah

And nukes have the purpose of wiping out huge areas.
Doesn't mean they should be added.

[sacred loom]

your justification relies on an example which is on so preposterously large in size that it is utterly irrelevant to the application of a weapon, which for balance purposes would only serve to highlight your position if used beyond 35m

[edgy sphinx]

I will counter your clip with FACTZ. That was WW2. They did not have body armor. 12g buck would mess you up. 00/000 even more so. This is BBR which is modern and everyone is wearing at least kevlar.

[thin python]

I hope you're kidding. 🗿

[thin python]

It doesn't matter, it's the same logic.

[cyan ridge]

works both directions though

it doesn't really say why they shouldn't be added, either

[sudden matrix]

the irrelevant part being that you can just take a shotgun and shit on everyone on the map because most maps are close quarters

[sudden matrix]

i dont think any body armor would help you against shotguns

[cyan ridge]

uh

[edgy sphinx]

evidence would state otherwise. Lots of evidence

don't believe everything Creepy Joe B tells you

[cyan ridge]

[sniffs ur hair]

[edgy sphinx]

and let's not kid ourselves here. Standard issue body armor in the military aint just a kelvar vest. It's a plate carrier.

this is what a standard 3A kevlar vest does against 9-pellet 00 buck from a Mossberg 590: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgZ0X2bdfRc

it'll knock you down but not kill you

just wearing the vest might net you some bruised or broken ribs but unlikely to result in death

[sudden matrix]

Thats wuite strong

They should unimplement headshots from the irl wars

[devout dragon]

Shotguns aren't hard to balance, the dev(s) is just too afraid to try to balance them. In a game like this where TTK is so incredibly low, especially in close range, shotguns would deal no harm to the gun balance, which is already pretty bad.

[thin python]

That's a cope.

Practical CQC one shot weapons will still make a massive difference. Effectively forcing everyone in CQC to use it.

[cyan ridge]

until such a point they leave cqc and become wholly useless and die in whatever the ttk is for the vector or val

[edgy sphinx]

A pump or break-action shotgun would be an easy to balance setup. They are relatively slow to reload and not exactly fast

Enlisted has shotguns and they used period shotguns. Like the double barrel break-action shotgun

[thin python]

Listen, as much as I would like shotguns so I can abuse the living shit out of them (since I am a CQC main), it's NOT easy to balance and never will be.
They either one shot you or they don't (in which case they would be pointless).
You can hand us a Romero and force us to reload after every shot, but whoever gets blasted by it still will have a shit time.

[edgy sphinx]

vs getting insta-dropped at cqc range by the p90/vector/mp5/ak74/etc?

[thin python]

There's still a huge difference between effectively 0ms TTK and >100ms.

[devout dragon]

Balance comes from trade-offs. Shotguns can kill faster but they can only do so from very close and their rate of fire is low, that's the balance. There's not much point to talk about it since it's up to the dev who unfortunately doesn't have the necessary experience to handle gun balance. But for you to say "it's not easy to balance" with your only argument being 1-shot or not is pretty stupid.

[thin python]

Cope

You clearly don't understand game design.

[devout dragon]

Unlucky, beat your argument in one msg

[thin python]

Kinda cute how hard you're coping.
You know your argument is trash when you gotta point out how good it is.

[devout dragon]

Nah, try something else bud

Didn't work

Unlucky again

[thin python]

Yeah, not having another convo with some obnoxious clown.

Your argument is shit, end of story.

[devout dragon]

Still didn't work, try something else

"I lost the argument so you are coping on you're an obnoxious clown" Unlucky hahahaa 😂

[thin python]

Why am I even surprised?
It's like shotgun threads were made to attract those brainlets.

🙄

[devout dragon]

Still didn't work bud

You still lost the argument, unlucky

[thin python]

The autism with the word "unlucky" is real.

[devout dragon]

Still lost the argument

"brainlet" and "autism" still didn't help you win the argument, maybe another word, keep thinking

You got this

[cyan ridge]

if you've gotta resort to reacting with the clown emoji it's pretty clear you've got no argument

fire rate and unreliability is a huge tradeoff that can be used to balance shotguns

shotguns are also unique in that every shot you fire can be resisted by either body armor, helmet, or both

oki's unwillingness to introduce randomness to spread (something he was very specific about when rifles had the rework a few months ago) wouldn't have to apply to shotguns at all

[dusty jungle]

Best argument would be

Doki said no to shotguns

[thin python]

Naaah man, obviously the irrelevant rando who claims "it can be done, the dev just doesn't know how to" knows better.
And for some reason he's obsessed with winning arguments, thus he keeps telling himself lies as if anyone cares (or even think it's physically possible to convince him ). Dunno what sorta disorder that is.

[devout dragon]

"irrelevant" still didn't change the fact that you lost the argument, unfortunate

But again, keep thinking of a new word to call me, there might exist a word that will help you win back the argument

"disorder" still didn't help too, keep thinking

[cyan ridge]

it's the German Condition

they're just born that way 😔

[edgy sphinx]

Also, calling someone autistic is very insulting to those of us with autism. Please consider your words before using them.

[rare dawn]

Personally I like the idea of shotguns being in the game, I just don't like the idea of someone being able to run around super fast and clear an entire building in a matter of seconds with a shotgun. So I'm starting to think maybe making shotguns a Support only weapon could be a way to help balance them out a little if they ever get added down the line. Plus, Support has very limited options when it comes to guns, so giving them a new category to choose from would make their gameplay more dynamic. You could be a defensive support, holding a position and providing covering fire with an LMG, or an offensive support, leading the charge with a shotgun to clear out a point or building being held. As long as you're holding the building by placing explosives and watching your flanks from the windows you should be able to gun down a Support charging at you before they get in range to one tap you with a shotgun. Even if the Support does get within range you should be able to run out of range easily enough too, provided they're missing shots or reloading currently

But all this also hinges on the shotguns themselves being balanced well, I just generally think that Supports deserve more variety in their gun selection and that lowering player mobility could be a key factor to making them balanced in addition to general balancing for the weapon itself

All that being said, this is of course just a personal opinion, I do understand that at the end of the day SgtOkiDoki said there are no plans to add Shotguns into the game. I do not expect this plan to change, but if for any reason it does then perhaps what I've said could be something to consider when trying to balance them

[hidden relic]

shotguns too strong pls nerf

[thin python]

Speak for yourself.

Doesn't bother me either, it's just a word.

[edgy sphinx]

And you are someone diagnosed with autism?

[cyan ridge]

no but you must be

[thin python]

Maybe, maybe not. Not really your business.

[edgy sphinx]

That is true. But do please take into account that others may and the connotations associated with being called autistic.

[thin python]

I could substitute it with "obsession", I suppose.

Arguably the same, depending on the context.

[edgy sphinx]

Perhaps that would be a better word

Or dedicated, intense, focused etc. There are a wide variety of better terms to use than calling someone out as being autistic

[thin python]

Certainly a matter of context.

Neither of those terms would work in this context.

Because it certainly was seemingly obsessive, compulsive.

Well, you could literally replace "autistic" with "compulsive" and just say the exactly same with a different word.

[edgy sphinx]

That would be the OCD. Obsessive, Compulsive Disorder. Which last I checked does not fall under the umbrella of autism

[thin python]

I mean, they share such behavior. 🗿
But we digress.

Lets just say I have an extremely high tolerance for words and don't really care as to which I (or others) use, as long as they get the meaning across. But apologies if it offended you.

[edgy sphinx]

Using the thesaurus, autistic does not show up as a synonym to obsession. I spent a couple years of my life working in radio and newspaper. Having to write script and articles.

[thin python]

It's not a synonym.

[edgy sphinx]

But I digress.

[thin python]

You don't use medical conditions as synonyms. It's just referring to the behavior that it results in.

[edgy sphinx]

You could very well say that some people here have an obsession with shotguns and weapons in general.

[thin python]

They sure fucking do.

[edgy sphinx]

Some of us are certainly obsessed with firearms in general. We like accuracy. My obsession as it were comes from personal experience serving in the Army. Firearms became something I enjoyed and focused on researching

[cyan ridge]

wow army guys sure come in fragile these days huh

[edgy sphinx]

Funny

I'm just trying to prevent people from running a foul of the server ToS/Rules

#rules #1

[hidden relic]

I'll pin it for you so you can read it.

1. Be nice - Toxicity has no place on our server, we want this to be a safe & welcoming place to hang out and use, so be nice & friendly to other members.
   — 1a) Terms like KYS will get you timedout for 24h, Warnings & possible removal.
   — 1b) Hate speech & harmful language, which includes but is not limited to harassment, abuse, bullying, anti-LGBTQ, sexism, racism, physical and/or mental disabilities.

[thin python]

https://tenor.com/view/did-you-know-no-one-gif-24072009

[shut elk]

Hey bro, I know this might start an argument, but your ego is massive and you’re being quite an ass. I would calm it down a bit and be a bit kinder.

[thin python]

Still haven't asked, but noted. And since we're at the topic of ego issues, it would be great if you guys stopped pinging me for this petty crap.
(No, for real, if you followed the convo instead of just picking up random words, you'd noticed we already resolved this whole thing...reviving it was wholly unnecessary)

🗿

[shut elk]

Pinging is not an ego issue. Assuming I didn't read the entire argument and thus insinuating I'm an airhead is an ego issue. Shows you believe you cannot be wrong and other people must be the ones that are wrong.

[hidden relic]

I don't think it was petty. I was showing you the rules in case you missed that using autism as a form of insult means you were breaking a rule. I just thought I'd let you know. I read it before I replied. I saw that you used it as a form of insult. I'll stop bothering you now. I hope you have a good day.

[thin python]

Just in case you're both not trolls trying to be provocative and simply are this oblivious, I'll let you know that I blocked you because you pinged me even after I asked you not to, keeping this pointless convo alive for no reason. So I might not react to you in the future.

[zenith iron]

Some devs are just simply afraid of balancing some things and choose to take the easy road 🤷‍♂️

[dusty jungle]

ouch

[dark imp]

no shotguns pls

[rotund raven]

ITT: bad players saying shotguns can be balanced while good players despise the idea

wonder why

[zenith iron]

Someone has a different opinion, must be a "bad player" 🤡

[rotund raven]

Not all opinions are created equal

[burnt ridge]

I am level 96 rn I have had fun with the game but it's getting stale fast. The only weapons used 90% of the time are SMG and sniper. I want a shotgun in the game would make it refreshing to camp an objective for defense. Also 90% of players are medic game is turning into a meta instead of a battle sim.

TLDR: Game is getting boring asf give me shotguns

[burnt ridge]

ur cool 8}

[tiny dagger]

So - I have barely started playing the game, but have just been having an absolute BALL playing it.

I do think that the absence of shotguns is not the end of the world... but they do FEEL absent. Like - just in the general playing. I'd love to see them get added - even if they are hilariously unbalanced for a while.

[idle hornet]

i dont understand why you would add a vector yet say a shotgun would be to hard to balance into the game, either get rid of the vector or add some shotguns. 100% of time i rage quit is because half the lobby is only using vectors. at least for the launch of custom servers, add shotguns or let community run servers add modded weapons? compound bows/crossbows?

[rotund raven]

Human reaction time: around 200ms on average

Vector ttk = ~200ms against low armour
Shotgun ttk = 0ms or useless

Practical ttk = reaction time + gun ttk

Vector ttk in practice = around 400ms
Shotgun in practice = around 200ms

Get it?

[urban ether]

Still a difference of less than a second in ideal circumstances.
Both players already have their seen one another, Aimed down the sight and have it on target, both are in their effective ranges, and their both not moving.

Which is basically those aim trainer shoot the target when it appears scenario

[rotund raven]

Less than a second doesnt say much. Most aim engagements wont last that long anyways

[urban ether]

Exactly

[rotund raven]

…

You need to look at this from percentages pov stop being silly

[urban ether]

What is a percentage pov and how does it correlate into the ingame big picture?

Because by that same logic *m110 heavy would be the weapon of choice in every engagement

[rotund raven]

200ms/0.2 sec difference doesnt sound like a lot

50% is a very big difference

[rotund raven]

in reference to this

[urban ether]

It is also a diminished return AND doesn't take into account ADS, Whos shooting first, Are they moving and the delay after a sprint and distance

(all things that will add to the equation

[rotund raven]

better players are gonna have easier time dealing with shotguns thanks to those attributes yes

[rotund raven]

average players dealing with shotguns are gonna struggle since they arent as good with this

on the other hand, imagine a tryhard whos developed quick reaction times and great crosshair placement through thousands of hours in shooters

and then you give him a shotty that kills from one shot up close

[urban ether]

Then I die to them, But how often are we going to run into him on a 127 player game?

It would be the same with the vector, Just .2 of a second longer

[rotund raven]

exactly

[urban ether]

However our shotgunner won't beable to handle groups aswell, (rof dependant) his range is now forced to BE close, losing the ability to be better at longer ranges

[rotund raven]

even 300ms ttk guns cant keep up with guns like vector, how would anything keep up with shotguns that have even bigger of a ttk advantage over anything

shotgun players will just play automatic guns on maps where they cant get up close

a good shotgun player is just gonna do quick peeks from behind a wall instead of fully exposing themselves for the whole engagement

[urban ether]

By using a shotguns disadvantages against them, Also I doubt this would be as big of a issue when facing someone other than GOD