NASIN TENPO KAMALU ★ a numberless toki pona calendar [DISCUSSION]

[cold elm]

ok

makes sense

what is penpo?

[errant comet]

also i should hopefully be presenting this at the suno pi toki pona event ^•^ yay

[cold elm]

yay :3

[errant comet]

it's a joke word that refers to "only talking in toki pona"
it's usually used in combination with tenpo (tenpo penpo hahaha) to refer to a specific event this server has where everytime there's a full / new moon, you can only speak toki pona, and if you don't, @hazy hornet marks your message with an emoji

so that's what we used to measure the weeks :D

[cold elm]

oh haha

what is the current month? is it kipisi noka?

[errant comet]

yea!

[cold elm]

ok :3

[errant comet]

i got to like 2015 - 2016 so the official 2024 toki pona calendar page should be done tomorrow >:3

[little phoenix]

Hello

How does nasin tenpo penpo work?

Another question
I know it's unrelated

Would suno pi toki pona be kinda like New Years Day?

How do you calculate your birthday?

[burnt sky]

kin la
when does a "day" start

huh I thought it was gonna be waso tawa then kijetesantakalu weka or sth

[errant comet]

yep! every year starts on suno pi toki pona (august 8th for simplicity's sake)

[errant comet]

kijetesantakalu weka is 2030, kijetesantakalu tawa is 2024

[errant comet]

i checked what the distance from august 8th (2006) to my birthday june 19th (2007, but it hasn't passed august so it isn't 2007 in this system), which was 315 days
then i divided it by the months so i wouldn't have to count them if they weren't important. since the number is so big, that let me skip 4 of the months, so i knew it'd be on the last month. then i counted the remaining days with the skipped months removed (4 months skipped, every month is 73 days, so that's 292, removing that from 315 leaves 23 days) which are then easy to count physically

[burnt sky]

so it's all tawa for 6 years?

that's different from what I thought it's gonna be

[errant comet]

oh yeah, the 6 year cycle counts the years, and whenever it completes a rotation, the 5 year cycle goes up by one. that's what i understood from your original request 😭

[burnt sky]

a

I meant that both cycles go up by 1 each year and go through all the permutations that way

[errant comet]

ohhhhh

[clever pilot]

i think this is the more sensible way

either way it goes through all permutations

[errant comet]

yeah i think so too tbh

it helps group them into "eras" basically and i like that

[clever pilot]

someone who went through two cycles can be legally called old /musi

[errant comet]

this is true

[little phoenix]

My birthday is on Feb 8, which day would be on?

[errant comet]

what year (if you don't mind me asking)

[little phoenix]

2010

[errant comet]

the third nimi of kipisi luka ! (signalled with pink again)

[little phoenix]

sina pona!

Oh

Btw

Sorry for bothering

[little phoenix]

What is this?

[errant comet]

it's those pages i've been sending (they change slightly per year so for consistency's sake i'm making all of them)

they have all the day and week layouts

[little phoenix]

Oh so my birth year is akesi kama?

[little phoenix]

Nice

[errant comet]

yes :D

[little phoenix]

Where do I get the nasin tenpo penpo sheets?

[errant comet]

i can post a couple when i finish making them, tho i'll be releasing them all in one on suno pi toki pona :D

[random pond]

mi wile sona e ni: nimi "penpo" li seme?

[past basalt]

(pi) toki pona taso

[random pond]

mi sona ala e ni: penpo li sama (pi) tpt tan seme? sitelen pi nimi Penpo li sama ala sitelen nanpa wan pi kulupu nimi TPT

sitelen T li lon ala insa pi nimi Penpo. kin la sitelen E lon nimi Penpo li tan seme?

ken la lawa mi li ken ala sona a a a

[ripe crag]

penpo

usage

sandbox (no book)

definition

(equivalent to "(pi) toki pona taso")

etymology

toki pona: (pi) toki pona taso; only toki pona

commentary

Coined in reference to ma pona pi toki pona's "tenpo pi toki pona taso" event, shortening it to "tenpo penpo".

see also

kokosila

⚠️ This proposed word is in the sandbox. It is not in use by the community.

[random pond]

mi sona e kon nimi, taso mi sona ala e tan pi sitelen ona

taso mi ni ala la ale li awen pona.

[past basalt]

nimi Penpo li sitelen "Penpo" tan ni:
kalama Penpo li sama kalama Tenpo
ni la: kalama Tenpo Penpo li musi
ni li tan taso

[random pond]

a a a. ni li musi

[little phoenix]

What would today's date be?

[opal fiber]

We are somewhere in the kipisi noka of a waso tawa but I'm too lazy right now to find out the weekday

[swift wigeon]

i have a very important question siliwa o

did you start the week thing at a proper penpo date

[errant comet]

uhhh i hope :3

(i think i didn't tbh.... ermm whoopsies)

[errant comet]

hey chat bad news :D (oopsies have been had and i need to redo all the sheets 😭)

[errant comet]

i have moved to google sheets so i can work on this outside of my computer so uhh i gotta lock in now :3

it looks uglier now but whatever

[little phoenix]

I made these sitelen sitelen sheets

[errant comet]

aaa epiku

[little phoenix]

New year (sptp) is in 10 days! :3

[errant comet]

kamalu kijetesantakalu tawa li lon >:3

(the actual sptp celebration is on kule, the year starts 2 days prior) (GAY suno pi toki pona)

[errant comet]

waow i made it actually look good and not like garbage :O (spoilered in case u wanna wait until suno pi toki pona to see it ig)

[bitter ocean]

uwaa

pona

[little phoenix]

'Scuse me

How do you calculate a date again?

[errant comet]

calculate the distance from august 8th of the nearest year (so if it's 2024 but before august 8th, start from august 8th 2023 instead) to whatever date you're trying to calculate
keep subtracting 73 from that number until you can't anymore (73 days is one month so you'll be skipping months that you don't need to count)
then count from the first day in the month you ended up until you reach your number :D

https://www.timeanddate.com/date/durationresult.html you can use one of these to calculate the distance

[little phoenix]

Thank you jan Siliwa :3

[little phoenix]

We're in the 5th toki of kamalu kipisi noka (I think)

[errant comet]

nice

[little phoenix]

Did I calculate the date correctly?

[echo girder]

waaa wawa lukin

meli Siliwa 💜 №¹ jami defender ↩️

[Reply to:](#1266079793884041266 message) waow i made it actually look good and not like garbage :O (spoilered in case u wanna wait until suno… 📎

[swift wigeon]

why is there a penpo missing between lawa and sijelo

[errant comet]

wait. oh i did the count wrong

damnit i have to do it again 😭

just kijetawa this time at least

[errant comet]

mi pona pali e ni

[worthy tree]

hello! fellow calendar designer here! sorry if I'm asking questions you've answered already, but what's up with

1. 5 months / seasons
2. 15 day weeks
3. every 4th moli missing (and why moli?)

[native stratus]

It's based on the moon phases

which cycle approximately every 29.5 days

half of that is about 15

and you have to remove a day every 4 weeks

moli was chosen to be removed because we were a bit iffy on its inclusion to begin with

not sure about the 5 months thing though i wasn't really paying attention to all that

[worthy tree]

that's clever

but it does make a week have a lot of words to learn

[native stratus]

indeed that was why i advocated for words that had a pattern

but my words fell into the depths

[worthy tree]

a lot here looks more complex than it needs to be

[native stratus]

which is why i sorta fell out of the project midway through

it is indeed very complex

in the context of toki pona

[worthy tree]

it would certainly be simpler if every month had 5 weeks, and sijelo just had one less day

or if the missing day every 4 weeks was either the first or last

I do like the "moon phase" idea a lot though

[native stratus]

yuh

[native stratus]

this was also part of my suggested words

[errant comet]

iiiiiiiiiii felt like it that's the only reason tbh 😭 we were originally gonna do 4 but ijo Stella wanted there to not be any seasons and 4 divisions of a year is pretty season coded
i really just wanted some sort of division of the year because the weeks run independently of it and having a giant wall of 365 days isn't very helpful for actually traversing anything

[native stratus]

the j

[errant comet]

5 divisions also limits it to 5 weeks per "month" so if you do ever need to count them it won't go any higher than luka (we were trying very hard to avoid numbers as much as possible but that's very hard to do when designing a calendar go figure)

also all of the months have the same amount of days (73)

[worthy tree]

365 days, which is actually evenly divisible by 5, so that's 73 days a month... so do 5 weeks of 15 for 75 days, and remove two (from moli, then the rest from the end)

pretty nice

[errant comet]

that's it yea :D

[worthy tree]

why remove every fouth moli, rather than something like two days from the end?

[errant comet]

that's to do with the weeks; a "penpo" happens every new/full moon so it's about every 14.25 days

so it's 3 weeks of 15 and 1 week of 14 so it syncs back (moli was chosen as the day to skip because it just. is moli), similar to how leap years work

since every month is 5 weeks it's guaranteed to happen at least once and at most twice

[worthy tree]

oh wow so suno pi toki pona happens right after a new / full moon?

that works out pretty nice

[errant comet]

suno pi toki pona 2024 does!

i was really surprised when it worked out like that (i started counting from 2001 so the weeks would line up)

[worthy tree]

ahhh suno pi toki pona isn't always a kasi day

also, for the 5 weeks, I highly reccomend naming them after colors

[errant comet]

unfortunately no 😭 it's just the first day of lawa
here's 2006-7 for reference (which starts on a moku)

[worthy tree]

used them in my system and really are intuitive

oh wow this stuff is impossible

[errant comet]

yeah it's weird

[worthy tree]

does it vary consistently throughout the year?

like, winter it's shorter, summer it's longer (or similar)?

[errant comet]

i'm not entirely sure tbh

we were really just basing penpo on what the @hazy hornet bot does with the tenpo pi toki pona taso events

[little phoenix]

I made this short date so you don't always have to write the long one

[errant comet]

nice :D

[swift wigeon]

tenpo penpo li lon

kamalu penpo li lon ala lon?

[errant comet]

lon ala 😔 nanpa mi li pakala. mi sona ala e lon ni

[errant comet]

please please please pleaaaaase let this be the final version

nnn

mun li ike mute

[errant comet]

lipu ni li jo e tenpo penpo pona (i think)

wait

no it doesn't

FUCK

[indigo hollow]

ilo penpo li tonsi e toki sina

[errant comet]

lon 😔

mi wile explode into a billion pieces

[errant comet]

happy kasi day y'all i can finally confidently say what day it is i think

(still the 5th of august for me)

[pale river]

yooo

[errant comet]

suno sina a

[pale river]

A A

lon a

mi kasi :3

[little phoenix]

This is how I keep track of time :3

[errant comet]

pona :O

also what's that kamalu glyph ? i don't know sitelen sitelen

[chrome mortar]

it's noka

looks like a foot

👣

[errant comet]

ohh

sona

[chrome mortar]

"nanpa" is luka

"tenpo sike" is waso tawa

suno is

i don't remember

[errant comet]

lol

[chrome mortar]

i'll check

[errant comet]

today should be pan / kule depending on timezone

it's pan for me rn

[chrome mortar]

a it's musi

[errant comet]

that definitely looks like musi to me good job sitelen sitelen

[chrome mortar]

it's actually u+i+ a face

[errant comet]

oh

slightly less good job sitelen sitelen /

[errant comet]

happy kule day y'all everyone is now officially gay
(also 1 day till new years !!!!!)

kijetesantakalu tawa li kama lon tenpo poka >:3

[bitter ocean]

woooo gay day

[little phoenix]

Does this calendar work?

Aren't we on a musi day?

[errant comet]

no sorry, this one had a lot of mistakes and doesn't line up with the actual penpo days

[errant comet]

this is the most recent one (that actually works)

[little phoenix]

sptp is on a toki?

One extra question

[errant comet]

yes

[little phoenix]

Are you gonna make the calendars like this one?

[errant comet]

i am !! i'm making a designed version of the correct one and it's gonna be released alongside my presentation for suno pi toki pona !!

[little phoenix]

Thank you!

[clever pilot]

but will it actually line up with penpo

[errant comet]

it lined up with the aug 4th penpo and should line up with the aug 19th and sept 2nd penpos

i don't know abt the rest but hopefully it doesn't go horribly out of sync again :)

i think i hate the moon now

but whatever we ball

[clever pilot]

mi sike

[little phoenix]

At what time are you going to present the calendars?

[errant comet]

<t:1723306800:F> to <t:1723307700:F> !!

[crude stump]

nasin tenpo ni la pilin mi

• nimi "penpo" li jaki - o kepeken nimi "mun"
• nimi "kamalu" li jaki - o kepeken nimi "tenpo"
• sina wile kepeken nimi sin tu nasa sama ni la mi pilin sama ni: sina sona ala e toki pona
• nasin sike pi tenpo ptpt pi ma ni li sama sike mun li sama ala sike pi suno mute. sike mun wan li sike suno 29.5305888531. nasin tenpo ni li pana e "tenpo suno mun" kepeken sike pi suno mute la tenpo lili la ona li kama sama ala sike mun lon, li kama sama ala tenpo pi toki pona taso
• taso ijo ale ante li musi 👍

[crude stump]

sike mun ale li tenpo suno 15 li mute ante ala la sama li ken ala awen a a

a mi lukin pona ala - tenpo suno moli li weka lon tenpo wile la sike li awen sama mun. pona a

taso a... mi o lukin e ni: ilo pi toki pona taso li sona e tenpo mun kepeken seme

a a a ona li kepeken ilo ante. nimi skyfield

https://github.com/gregdan3/ilo-pi-toki-pona-taso/blob/main/src/tenpo/phase_utils.py

https://pypi.org/project/skyfield/

sina ken lukin e sike mun kama mute a kepeken ilo ni li ken kama sona e ni: nasin nanpa tenpo sina li awen ala awen sama lon tenpo suli

[errant comet]

• sina ken
• sina ken
  mi awen pana e sona ni lon tenpo mute: sina ken. "nimi sin tu nasa sama ni" li pana e sona namako li weka e pilin pi sona ala
  ("ni li tenpo musi" li ken "mi lon musi tomo" anu ante, taso "ni li kamalu musi" li tenpo suno #LLT taso. ona li pona la sina ken toki e "ni li tenpo musi")

[errant comet]

mi o kepeken ni

[errant comet]

anyways happy ntp new years yay 🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳

it is toki day

[swift wigeon]

yay!

[crude stump]

a o kepeken nimi nanpa. ni li [tenpo] suno nanpa musi

"li pana e sona namako li weka e pilin pi sona ala" sina ken ala ni kepeken ala nimi sin la . o kama ken ?

[errant comet]

happy moli day AND last day before suno pi toki pona :D

tomorrow li lete li suno pi toki pona aaa

[heady needle]

my fav part about it is that you can turn that smile upside down

for musi ala i guess

[errant comet]

lmao you can ?? that's incredible

[wicked seal]

In your opinion as þe creator, what should one do if þey personally hate kipisi?

[errant comet]

i don't like it either i don't blame you lol

[crude stump]

mi wile sona sama, taso lon nimi 'penpo'

[ashen moat]

btw, great work on the nasin tenpo :>

well, it needs some learning to be used to, but it looks fun and nice. mi wile kepeken nasin tenpo ni a 🙂

[errant comet]

mi sona

sina ken ala pini e toki ni 😭

[crude stump]

lon...

[ashen moat]

btw, is the calendar will be updated for future years?

[errant comet]

yep, i'll be making new sheets for every year for as long as i'm in the toki pona community (which should hopefully be a lot because i love this community)

might make some for past years too but that depends

[ashen moat]

PONA A >U<

[burnt sky]

just watched the vod cause I accidentally joined a booth
but how dare you forget my name /musi
taso ale li pona a

ken la jan li ken pali nanpa tawa sona pi nimi suno...

[little phoenix]

Hello

Where do I get the calendars

I didn't watch the stream

[burnt sky]

lipu Sita pi meli Siliwa

anu #pana

[little phoenix]

Thx

Tomorrow is lete?

[errant comet]

today is lete

[little phoenix]

Oh ok

[chrome mortar]

weather forecasters be like

[errant comet]

toki pona weather forecasters seething at nasin tenpo penpo (lete AND seli are both individual days)

[little phoenix]

That's funny bcuz here in Costa Rica (where I live and I'm from) was scorching hot

30°C

Thank you for the calendars @errant comet!

[bitter ocean]

sewi li lete ala, tenpo li lete

[errant comet]

lon

[bitter ocean]

⏰❄️

[opal fiber]

looking at this chart, today is sptp so shouldn't it be toki?

[sacred scarab]

today is not the real birthday of toki pona

[errant comet]

the "suno pi toki pona" day falls on august 8th, not the day of the celebration (there's only been 4 suno pi toki ponas so all other years wouldn't have one)

[sacred scarab]

sptp is moved to the weekend, because it's easier for celebrations to be on the weekend

[opal fiber]

right i forgot

then it makes sense

[errant comet]

ale li pona

[ashen moat]

wait im curious about something, how do we want to deal with years before toki pona (before 2001)?

[sacred scarab]

there was no time before toki pona

/j

[ashen moat]

i kinda content with just using nanpas for years before toki pona, and the year cycle after toki pona

so like, 1999 for me is maybe toki pona li pini la tenpo sike nanpa tu

[ashen moat]

[little phoenix]

I already have it on my wall

[errant comet]

you can still do so, you just talk about the year with the year cycle and say "pi tenpo pini" or "pi tenpo majuna" or something

1984 is akesi awen pi tenpo majuna (i think)

[ashen moat]

ooooooooo

ni li pona tawa mi kin :>

[sacred scarab]

whoa

[pearl pulsar]

lipu li pona mute tawa lukin, taso, mi ken ala sitelen lon ona

[little phoenix]

Yup

[ashen moat]

and btw, the empty days are skipped right?

like the 2nd week, it goes suno, lete instead of suno, moli, lete right?

[pearl pulsar]

yup

[ashen moat]

owo

[ashen moat]

well, I tried to incorporate nasin tenpo penpo in my calendar owo

interestingly, suno penpo for me is Monday instead of Tuesday for me, hmmmmmm

[burnt sky]

a! toki Aja!

[opal fiber]

what system does the 7645 refer to?

[ashen moat]

a a a , ni li toki Aja ala
ni li kepeken toki pali mi, toki Jakalu. mi kepeken sitelen Aja tawa toki Jakalu :>

[ashen moat]

well, it's my own fictional calendar. 7645 is 7645 After Dimensional Confusion, an epoch in my fictional world :>

[opal fiber]

cool!

[burnt sky]

a, wawa a

[ashen moat]

now with smol sitelen pona >u<

i love this nasin tenpo already

[ashen moat]

so today is suno nimi nanpa wan pi kipisi lawa lon kijetesantakalu tawa

[golden bay]

jami day = april 23, please can someone convert to nasin ni

[pearl pulsar]

mi ante e lipu la mi ken sitelen lon ona

[errant comet]

uuuuuuuuu pona mute a

[pearl pulsar]

leko lon ona li lili lili

[gusty charm]

sina ken ala ken pali e ilo sama ni: sina pana e tenpo tawa nasin tenpo pi toki Inli la ona li pana e tenpo lon nasin tenpo penpo

mi lukin e nasin tenpo ante lon tenpo pini. ilo pona ni li lon: sina pana e tenpo tawa ona la ona li ken ante e tenpo tawa naisn tenpo ona

o lukin e lipu ni

[errant comet]

mi ken ala. taso, ken la jan ante li ken ? mi sona ala nanpa

[gusty charm]

a sona

mi kin li sona ala e nasin pi pali ilo :P

[little phoenix]

kipisi lawa kepeken sitelen sitelen

[errant comet]

pona a

[little phoenix]

Thx

[ashen moat]

so I try to code some simple webpage for the claendar

[errant comet]

aaa pona

[ashen moat]

it went mostly well, except that it is suno musi (wrong day) instead of suno seli today TwT

[errant comet]

yea i was gonna mention that

looks cool tho !!!

[ashen moat]

thanks ;>

maybe it is in the logic with leap years and all :p

can you tell me more about how the calendar deals with leap years?

[errant comet]

oh wait i didn't have that in the presentation shoot

yeah basically the leap day of a leap year goes in the month of poka in place of the first skipped moli (of the year PRIOR to the year that would be numbered the "leap year")
so the gr. 2024 leap year day would be in waso tawa (not kijetesantakalu tawa), in the month of poka wherever the first (or only) skipped moli happens to land

[ashen moat]

OOOOO

[errant comet]

so it fills it in basically

anyways i'm going to work on the kose kata note for nasin tenpo penpo just so that it's somewhere

[ashen moat]

owo yesss

pona a

still, kinda need help for someone to check the code ;p

[clever pilot]

wouldn’t the leap day misalign the calendar and the moon?

[ashen moat]

yeah, thats what I am experiencing

I think maybe I should do more research and figures first about the calendar's logic

because I do want to use this in my life

tenpo sike kijetesantakalu li tenpo sike pona mute tawa mi

[ashen moat]

so for some reason, we need to subtract by 3 days to get the correct days

subtract 3 days from total days from the epoch, which is suno lon pi toki pona (8/8/2001)

[swift wigeon]

yes

i never advocated for leap days/years or for consistent sun cycle based year lengths at all

but i guess siliwa has different ideas for a more solar-focused lunisolar calendar

[errant comet]

shoot yeah i guess that's true i didn't think about that 😭

OH THATS WHY THE PENPOS WERE MISALIGNED

[swift wigeon]

you can have a leap day, but it cant interrupt the penpo cycle

it has to shift into the cycle

so like

youd have to say that the month of poka gets an extra day

but not that that day is an un-skipped moli

[errant comet]

yeah yeah i get that now

well that explains a lot

[ashen moat]

😮

so that may explain the misaligned penpos and the 3 additional days in my logic

[ashen moat]

so its like, all suno molis are skipped every 4 weeks, but if its a leap year, the month get an additional day?

[swift wigeon]

yeah

[ashen moat]

hmmmmm

lets see if I can code that

[heady schooner]

toki
I found out about this toki pona calendar thing on sptp and though it was really cool! I was wondering if anyone could give me some sona about how it works, I notice some days are skipped, why is that? and how do you split up the kipisi sike

the missing molis are out of sync with the colours awawawa

[errant comet]

working on that currently, for now you can check the pinned messages in this thread they're mostly accurate

[heady schooner]

tyy

[ashen moat]

ooooo nice

well, I just wait until the updated version for my code then. I just try it and it is mostly accurate, except it is 3 days forward

hmmmm

[errant comet]

what day are you starting the count at? because if it's a kasi that might be it. i tried starting at kasi when calculating the sheets and the days ended up all wrong so i had to start over

[ashen moat]

i think it is default to kasi

maybe need to check back what suno it is on 8/8/2001

[errant comet]

yeah that might be it

[ashen moat]

since it is forward 3 days in my code, I suspect that the suno on 8/8/2001 might be suno mama

[errant comet]

that might be it !!

i only calculated this year for the official release so i can't say for sure but it's possible

[errant comet]

ok i just checked with a moon phases calendar and that's it !!!!

[ashen moat]

OWO

So that explains why I need to subtract 3 from the code >u<

[errant comet]

haha nice

[ashen moat]

and it's poetic as hell that the day toki pona went public is suno mama

[errant comet]

trueeeee ..

[ashen moat]

well, the code can wait, its tenpo lape tawa mi lon tenpo ni so...night :3

[errant comet]

o lape pona !!

[swift wigeon]

yo if 8/8/2001 is actually a suno mama thats a crazy coincidence lol

its literally the date of birth of toki pona

[clever pilot]

no||r||way

[wicked seal]

Very pog

Only if

I gaþer from your comment þat it isn't

idk how þis calendar works realluy

I haven't interected wiþ it since she presented it

[errant comet]

we do not know because that would require me (or somebody else) to calculate every year prior to kijetesantakalu tawa until 2001 and i am not capable of doing that rn

so given that this would line up i'm inclined to believe the counting machine who's only purpose is counting

[pale river]

@errant comet is there any lipu i can see that explains the whole calendar system or would i have to scroll through this channel

[ashen moat]

well, for now you can watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECH9E7PM0eQ&t=38477s

it started at 10:34:57

[pale river]

ah alright thank you

[ashen moat]

in the meantime

https://danny-rachevaski.github.io/nasin-tenpo-penpo-static/

just a prototype ;>

[neat phoenix]

Could i entice anyone to create a [[nasin tenpo penpo]] wiki article

[fresh plume]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/nasin_tenpo_penpo

[pale river]

ooooh that’s cool thank you :)

[ashen moat]

owo

pona a :3

[errant comet]

nasin tenpo Kamalu li seme a?

nasin tenpo Kamalu, formerly called nasin tenpo penpo, is a toki pona based calendar system primarily developed by meli Siliwa and others, presented during suno pi toki pona 2024. it aims to make a usable toki pona taso replacement to the Gregorian calendar, which commonly requires the use of numbers when used within toki pona. therefore, it aims to use as no numbers to operate, opting instead for sequences of words.

sike tenpo

ntK has two year cycles, similar to the function of the Chinese Zodiac. there is one cycle based on the 6 common animal words (kala, pipi, akesi, soweli, waso, kijetesantakalu) and another cycle based on 5 degrees of "progress" (sin, kama, awen, tawa, weka). the 6-long cycle is nested in the 5-long cycle, and they function like this: the 6 year cycle progresses every year, and when it does 1 full rotation, the 5-long cycle increases by one. these are then compounded to form the year name (kala sin, akesi kama, waso tawa, etc.), the year 2001 corresponds to the year kala sin, so count from there.

tenpo mun

ntK employs lunar weeks, revolving around ma pona pi toki pona's tenpo pi toki pona taso (humorously dubbed tenpo penpo by some speakers), which happens every new or full moon. the weeks have 15 days, each named after an entry of lipu tenpo, sans words that could be confused for other things (animals, numbers, etc.), which are:

kasi, pan, kule, toki, moli, lete, walo, nimi, seli, moku, kulupu, musi, mama, nasin, mun.

for the sake of keeping up* with the moon cycles, every fourth week, the day moli is skipped (going straight from toki to lete) to make one 14 day week. this makes a macro-cycle of 59 days.

(cont'd, o lukin e anpa)

kipisi tu tu wan

the year is split up into five, 73 day long months. these are named after 5 body parts, from top to bottom:

lawa, sijelo, luka, poka, noka

the leap year happens in the year prior to what "would be" its gregorian equivalent (so the 2024 leap day would happen in waso tawa instead of kijetesantakalu tawa), and it goes in the form of an extra day in the month of poka.

toki tenpo

since a maximum of 5 weeks can fit in one month, there are ALSO named with the 5 degrees of progress. i.e. the day "nasin" in the 4th week of the month is nasin tawa. the month is then added onto the end to say the official date in a year: kasi awen luka, pan sin sijelo. mun weka noka.

lipu

the official nasin tenpo penpo calendar sheets are available here. however, there's nothing stopping you from customizing it or making your own!

-# nasin tenpo Kamalu is a project by meli Siliwa and ma pona pi toki pona members such as ijo Stella, jan Telen and telo Ipi. for inquires, message meli Siliwa @errant comet. o pona!

I DID IT :D

[errant comet]

i'd put this on kose kata but it's way too long as it is so i'll make a shorter version that links back to this one

[ashen moat]

OwO this is good job >u<

pali sina ni li pona mute a 😄

[gusty charm]

can someone send me that one image of the calender that was used for the presentation?

[errant comet]

which one? if you mean the sheets then they're linked in the message above. if you mean something from the presentation i don't have it on hand but i could probably go get it

(also i forgot to link them in the message uhh they're there now)

[gusty charm]

i see, ty

(i am also too lazy to build out the calender)
this is a design only, just wanted to make this for fun

also i'm just now realizing this color scheme is very similar to another design i've made lol

[errant comet]

haha nice

[gusty charm]

(also i know that's not what the words mean)

i believe this was actually made into a tool i just gotta find the link for it

[gusty charm]

https://html-preview.github.io/?url=https://github.com/vitphire/o-sitelen-pona-e-mi/blob/master/index.html

(i did not program this)

[pale river]

ooh i like that, are you able to input different dates to get that nasin tenpo penpo equivalent?

[gusty charm]

this is a design only, just wanted to make this for fun

i don't know how to program sadly 😔

[pale river]

ohhh right i see

[native stratus]

a pona

[errant comet]

nasin tenpo penpo is a toki pona calendar system workshopped by meli Siliwa and other members of ma pona, intended to serve as a less number dependant alternative to the Gregorian calendar.

• it starts on august 8th, 2001, creation date of toki pona.
• contains 2 nested year cycles. the inner cycle (kala, pipi, akesi, soweli, waso, kijetesantakalu) changes word every year, and the outer (sin, kama, awen, tawa, weka) changes every time the first cycle completes a rotation (aug+ 2001 = kala sin, aug+ 2002 = pipi sin, aug+ 2007 = kala kama, etc.)
• one year is split up into five, 73 day months called kipisi. they are named after the body parts lawa, sijelo, luka, poka & noka, in that order.
• there are 15 day weeks center around ma pona's tenpo pi toki pona taso event every new or full moon, dubbed tenpo penpo by some speakers. the days in these weeks are: kasi, pan, kule, toki, moli*, lete, walo, nimi, seli, moku, kulupu, musi, mama, nasin, and penpo. to keep synchrony between the moon cycles and the calendar, moli is skipped every 4 weeks, going from toki straight to lete. these weeks run independently of the year.
• in case of a leap year, count one more day in the month of poka of the year before the numbered leap year (ex. the 2024 leap day is on waso tawa (aug+ 2023) instead of kijetesantakalu tawa (aug+ 2024) for earlier celebration!!)

the "official" nasin tenpo penpo sheets can be found here, however unofficial tools are appreciated as well! check out the sona pona page for more information. tenpo o pona!

i think this is the version i'm adding to kose kata :D

also i'll try actually adding stuff to the sona pona page bc it's blank rn lol

[errant comet]

i added a bit to the sona pona page but the editor is glitching out for me rn so i'll finish it later i guessss 🙄

[ashen moat]

well, I do made this, but this is basic as hell :p

[errant comet]

it is done i think. probably not public yet but uhhh i hope it does :3

[crude stump]

@errant comet sona.pona.la la sina pali e seme a a a lipu sina li kama tu. lipu pi poki user en lipu pi poki ala li kama lipu tu ante
jan ke tami li tawa e lipu sina tawa poki sina tan ni: nasin li sin mute la lipu ona o awen lon poki lon tenpo ni. la...lipu pi poki ala o awen lipu tawa...? o ni ala https://sona.pona.la/wiki/nasin_tenpo_penpo?diff=prev&oldid=19450

mi weka e pakala li pana sin e lipu tawa poki, mi toki tawa sina tan ni: lukin la sina sona ala e tan :)

[errant comet]

pona

[crude stump]

pona

[night timber]

nasin tenpo penpo is a toki pona calendar system workshopped by meli Siliwa and other members of ma pona, intended to serve as a less number dependant alternative to the Gregorian calendar. it was presented on suno pi toki pona 2024.

• it starts on august 8th, 2001, creation date of toki pona.
• contains 2 nested year cycles. the inner cycle (kala, pipi, akesi, soweli, waso, kijetesantakalu) advances every year, and the outer (sin, kama, awen, tawa, weka) advances every time the first cycle completes a rotation (aug+ 2001 = kala sin, aug+ 2002 = pipi sin, aug+ 2007 = kala kama, etc.)
• one year is split up into five, 73 day months called kipisi. they are named after the body parts lawa, sijelo, luka, poka & noka, in that order.
• there are 15 day weeks center around ma pona's tenpo pi toki pona taso event every new or full moon, dubbed tenpo penpo by some speakers. the days in these weeks are: kasi, pan, kule, toki, moli*, lete, walo, nimi, seli, moku, kulupu, musi, mama, nasin, and penpo. to keep synchrony between the moon cycles and the calendar, moli is skipped every 4 weeks, going from toki straight to lete. these weeks run independently of the year.
• in case of a leap year, count one more day in the month of poka of the year before the numbered leap year (ex. the 2024 leap day is on waso tawa (aug+ 2023) instead of kijetesantakalu tawa (aug+ 2024) for earlier celebration!!)

the "official" nasin tenpo penpo sheets can be found here, however unofficial tools & derivatives are appreciated as well! check out the sona pona page for more information. tenpo o pona!

#ca4aed nasin tenpo penpo

[errant comet]

the note has been noted

[native stratus]

n

just now catching up with how this all works

i fell out of development because i didn't really like it but now this seems pretty coolio

[ashen moat]

pona a

[swift wigeon]

i supplied a lot of basic ideas but then dropped out and let siliwa do all the hard work herself lol
i like the result tho :3

[errant comet]

suno penpo pona a

it's also penpo in the calendar which means it's not broken yet

we are so back

[heady schooner]

How do we know what day it is in tenpo penpo, especially since suno pi toki pona keeps moving so we can't just count from there

pakala tenpo ni li tenpo penpo

la mi toki Inli

ni la, mi sona e ni: te tenpo suno ni li tenpo seme to, a a a

[errant comet]

it doesn't in the calendar! the first day of every year is always august 8

[chrome mortar]

but... the lunar year does not line up with the solar august 8

[swift wigeon]

thats why the weeks of the calendar dont line up with the years

its not an issue

[errant comet]

ni

[chrome mortar]

oh i see

[tidal granite]

someone remind me to learn how to use this

[errant comet]

okay :D

[fresh plume]

Set a reminder in 1 week and 3 days from now (<t:1725395283:f>)
View reminders with the reminders command

[native stratus]

what is august 8 2001 in nasin tenpo penpo

i presume it is
year = kala sin
month = lawa
day = kasi

[errant comet]

it is kala sin and kipisi lawa but the day isn't kasi (i tried doing that originally but synchronicity with penpo was messed up)

[native stratus]

so what is the day

[errant comet]

i'm not entirely sure... i was rushed to calculate the sheets for sptp so i only did 2024

i think it might be mama?

[native stratus]

i ask because i just wanna know my birthday lol

[errant comet]

you were born on august 1st 2001 ??

are you toki pona

[native stratus]

no i was born on june 16 2005

[errant comet]

8th

oh

ok yeah that makes more sense lol

[native stratus]

so in order to figure that out i'd either have to start from the beginning of time or go backwards from sptp 2024

[errant comet]

best bet rn is to work backwards unfortunately 😭 i'll start work on the 2001 sheet tho since i'm not rlly doing anything else today

good to have

[native stratus]

also how exactly do leap days work because this description is not precise

like is the leap day still on february 29

[errant comet]

you count 74 days instead of 73 days in poka

[native stratus]

i see now

my brain was not computing

[errant comet]

lol no worries

[full fog]

are you suffering from brainrot? /j

[errant comet]

ok i double checked this with a moon calendar so the penpos would be correct so kala sin 󱦐2001󱦑 li lon !!! i think !!!

it also starts on a toki like kijetesantakalu tawa :O

[golden bay]

#1271871760534474774 message this

[errant comet]

i just do the calculations on an excel spreadsheet lol

if u want i can send that

[native stratus]

ye

[errant comet]

me when the uhyhh the uhh (only has 2024 and the 2001 one i just made bc the others were pakala)

[native stratus]

seems like the first day of kipisi luka is always january 1st

how convenient

[errant comet]

true ...

[native stratus]

also i wonder what the best way to format a date would be

n

(found my birthday btw)

[errant comet]

i normally do "(tenpo suno) [weekday word] nanpa [number] pi kipisi [month] lon [full year name]" for like a full date year and everything but you can cut down on anything that's discernible through context

[errant comet]

pona !!

[gusty charm]

ni li linja ilo seme? mi wile sona

[native stratus]

fuzzy bubbles

[gusty charm]

pona

[native stratus]

fixed

i am 60% sure there are no mistakes

oh and i changed the font to sitelen seli kiwen because i didn't wanna download whatever was in there already

[errant comet]

it's like half ssk and half fairfax because i couldn't decide lol

i can't open it rn what did you do

[native stratus]

did all the calendars from 2001-2030

i wasn't going to do all of them but i basically had to when i realized your 2001 calendar was somehow way off

which i do not fault you for as i have now learned how incredibly easy it is to fuck up a calendar

[native stratus]

anyway my birthday is not on kulupu nanpa tu it is on pan nanpa tu

which is much more fun

[errant comet]

aw man was it ??

[native stratus]

indeed and i don't know why

at least the first skipped day is actually on the 4th week lol

[errant comet]

i double checked it with a moon calendar tho... the closest penpos to august 8th 2001 are the 4th and the 19th

[native stratus]

going backwards from 2024 ended up being more reliable

[errant comet]

okay !!

ok wait why would penpo lawa nanpa wan 2001 be on the 12th that's not a tenpo penpo

i'm confused

[native stratus]

because august 8 2001 was the day toki pona was created

not a full moon

lemme actually check to see if the moon lines up all the way back there

it very well may not

[errant comet]

it doesn't

the 12th (the first penpo) wasn't full or new i don't think

[native stratus]

it is exactly halfway between

the reason is because the moon phases don't line up with days

interesting

[errant comet]

do they not

yeah

[native stratus]

well i know the moon phases cycle every 29.54 days

which will obviously drift

[errant comet]

yeah..

[native stratus]

perhaps another leap day is in order ?!?!

[errant comet]

add moli back in

i mean leap years do that too so like if we had to do that it's fine i think

i'll figure something out 😭

[native stratus]

yeah the moon phases really aren't consistent at all actually

[errant comet]

the moon sucks rahhh

[native stratus]

the full moon and new moon are typically either 15 or 14 days apart but the full moon on november 1 2001 came 16 days after the previous new moon

so then yeah the easiest solution would be to add moli back in whenever there's 16 days because it should always be followed by another 14 day

[errant comet]

yeah

[native stratus]

i think

[errant comet]

yeah

[native stratus]

https://mooncal.ch/en/calendar

this shall be quite useful

i shall work on it later today as i've already gotten myself hyperfixated on this calendar

[errant comet]

yea that's what i used for my original 2001 sheet

lol welcome back

[pale river]

why exactly does the leap day occur in the year before the gregorian leap year? why isn’t it just the same year

wait nevermind

i think i just figured it out

[native stratus]

[pale river]

it’s cus the gregorian leap day is in february which would make the nasin tenpo penpo system misaligned with august 8th

i think

[native stratus]

something like that

[pale river]

why didn’t i just consider this before asking the question lmao

[native stratus]

@errant comet i have created this specimen

turns out an entirely separate leap day of sorts is needed if you want to maintain "15 day" weeks and also have all the penpo days be accurate

i'd like to think this is rather nice

[errant comet]

yeah i think this works

also are there really that many 16 day leap years damn

[native stratus]

yeah i didn't realize either

they're everywhere lmao

[errant comet]

wowzers

[native stratus]

this means i have to figure out my birthday for like the 5th time

[errant comet]

oh wait this also means i have to change the sheets 😭

[native stratus]

indeed

currently working on the 2024 calendar in the excel doc

2024 is being weird

actually wait what time zone is this based on

[native stratus]

this is based on EST

but it should probably be UTC

[golden bay]

whats dec 4th in this nasin

[native stratus]

dunno yet

i am struggling with time zones

because that changes the dates of the moon phases

[errant comet]

depends on the year

[golden bay]

what about this year

[native stratus]

i'm going to base it on UTC because otherwise problems arise (there is a week with 13 days)

actually no this problem persists

erm

[errant comet]

i think we should explode the moon

frankly i think if it's close enough to penpo i'm okay with it

[native stratus]

oh holy fuck i just realized i've been counting 30 days in august instead of 31

that would be the problem

[errant comet]

ohh

[native stratus]

fixed so it is now relative to UTC

and then here's 2024

[errant comet]

i see

[native stratus]

now time to find my birthday again

I will say it's unfortunate that the system can't be as systematic as it was envisioned but that's just a consequence of the moon phases not lining up with daye

also all the removing and adding of days is goof

but at least it is not arbitrary

[errant comet]

true...

mi pilin sama

[native stratus]

in orange

we ball

[errant comet]

nice

[native stratus]

nasin sin a !!

tenpo penpo is now always accurate on the calendar. instead of omitting every 4th moli, you simply omit moli when the gap between penpos is 14 days and append namako (directly after penpo) when the gap is 16 days. if the gap is 15 days, do nothing.

pretty swag if you ask me

leap days still exist btw because they aren't affected by the moon phases drifting

[errant comet]

true

i'm not rlly sure how to feel about this tbh... i think this makes it a little too dependant on actually having a physical calendar

[native stratus]

thats why lunar calendars don't ever take off

[native stratus]

though honestly i'd be inclined to say this isn't much of an issue. you only need a physical calendar if you want to know the exact day, which was already the case with the previous calendar

the months and years haven't changed

[errant comet]

yeah i guess that's fair

[native stratus]

and i mean its toki pona

i'd be more inclined to use the system to refer to larger units of time anyway

[errant comet]

true

[gusty charm]

mi wile ala toki ike.. taso nasin tenpo ni li lon tan seme? mi sona ala e ni: nasin tenpo ni o lon seme. mi pana e nasin tenpo ni tawa lipu mi la ala li sona e tenpo tan ni: ona li sona ala e nasin tenpo :P
ken la ni li pona tawa musi taso. ken la mi nasa

(mi wile ala toki ike tawa sina. mi wile sona taso)

[errant comet]

nasin tenpo Keko ||the Gregorian calendar|| li ike lon toki pona tan ni: kepeken pi jan mute la ona li kepeken nanpa mute anu nanpa ale. toki pona la nanpa o suli mute ala, la nasin tenpo penpo li lon

[gusty charm]

sona

[ashen moat]

OWO

[native stratus]

a

[swift wigeon]

but how do you know

[native stratus]

lunar calendar

there is indeed no way to know without knowing the moon phases in advance

[golden island]

I do want to make a converter

Do you have an official like

learning guide

I want to see what this is

[errant comet]

[[nasin tenpo penpo]] there's this

[fresh plume]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/nasin_tenpo_penpo

[golden island]

Oki

TY :D

[swift wigeon]

when i suggested a feature that required using a secondary calendar to know what day it is, everyone disliked it :c

[errant comet]

what was it

[worthy tree]

secondary calendar

sounds pona

[sturdy lion]

n…… ni la, tenpo suno ni li seme?

[native stratus]

well i was just attempting to solve what seemed to be a glaring oversight

it really isn't possible to have a lunar calendar be consistent

[swift wigeon]

why not

[native stratus]

because the moon phases don't line up with days

full moon and new moon are either 14, 15, or 16 days apart

and it's not easily predictable from what i can tell

[native stratus]

which is why days are omitted and appended at seemingly random

[swift wigeon]

which is why we did the moli thing

[native stratus]

that doesn't work

unfortunately

[swift wigeon]

you cant predict it perfectly but you can approximate it

maybe we did the wrong proportion

[native stratus]

nah it was good for a first thought

but it caused significant drift even within the same year

plus i don't think an approximation is good enough

if you're gonna name a day of the week penpo, it should fall on tenpo penpo 100% of the time

[swift wigeon]

why

[native stratus]

because that's the whole premise of the calendar and otherwise it would be misleading

name the 15th day something else if you're just trying to approximate

[native stratus]

though i will say this execution is rather inelegant. it would be easier to parse if you just had 16 days of week and omitted the last 1 or 2 depending on the length of the week

instead of haphazardly removing the 5th day of the week and appending one to the end (or beginning?)

[burnt sky]

second solution: make penpo align with our calendar system

[native stratus]

reschedule the moon

that would work

[burnt sky]

how does ilo penpo in mpptp calculate when penpo is anyways
does it read from a existing moon phase chart or use it's own algorithm

[native stratus]

probably an existing moon phase chart

anyway i'm not trying to just pretentiously sit here and change the whole system for the sake of changing it. the fact that the penpo day doesn't align with actual penpo is an oversight, and as such would have been fixed during development earlier on anyway

you can either implement a version of my proposed change or not idc

[errant comet]

we kill penpo and replace it with mun officially

/

[worthy tree]

because technically "100%" and "0%" won't necessarily fall in the middle of any night

[burnt sky]

#wile-kulupu message
sona

[sonic lily]

PLEASE

i would undyingly confess my steadfast love for this if that happens

[errant comet]

honestly given the fact that there are way too many 16 day penpo weeks but also it's not really at the stage where we can just rebuild the thing from stratch with an extra surprise day or whatever i might actually do this

just like slightly divorce it from the official tenpo penpo

[native stratus]

that would be neat in my opinion

[sonic lily]

tenpo penpo was like really close to perfect but i do think re-iterating on it coild be good especially if (shameless plug) we somehow try to integrate it with the nasin tenpo for tenpo lili that I'm working on

[errant comet]

honestly i'd be fine with that

your system li pona

[sonic lily]

i am struggling to make a clock website rn...

[errant comet]

fair 😭

[errant comet]

ok so we revert to this one and replace all the penpos with mun yea ?

[native stratus]

yer

[errant comet]

alright cool

i would like kijetesantakalu tawa to be the anchor year since that's the only one that's been officially released so anybody who was already using the calendar doesn't have to restart counting

and this is already that

so yea i think we're good

[native stratus]

[sonic lily]

i am not good with graphic design. i WANT to make like a cool circle thing that shows the whole clock but whatever

[errant comet]

well i happen to be mildly okay with graphic design >:3

[sonic lily]

@errant comet is there a rationale behind the order of the critters in the small cycle

mentally i want it to be small guys to big guys

[pale river]

i feel like it would mess things up to reorganise it

it would confuse things

since it’s already been set sort of

[sonic lily]

it would but also i feel like this kinda got... rushed into production, so to speak?

with sptp and all

i feel like this needs like. 5 more minutes in the oven maybe

i guess a calendar system is open to being more arbitrary though

I'm just an avid hater of nimi penpo mainly

because i hate fun! fun is THE DEVIL

[errant comet]

telo Ipi organized them in order of evolution iirc

[sonic lily]

oh real

Nevermind then objection withdrawn that's based

[errant comet]

yeah it kinda did 😭

[errant comet]

yeah here's the toki #1266079793884041266 message

[pale river]

yeah i get that tbh

i mean is it too late to change things? as long as the current year is kept untouched and subsequent years are used to correct it maybe changes would be possible

if necessary of course

[errant comet]

yeah we're working on that rn

i mean kinda, hence this: #1266079793884041266 message

[sonic lily]

I'm currently documenting it with colors and charts

mostly just for my understanding but also to share

[native stratus]

agree

[errant comet]

alright i did some changes to the sona pona page to reflect the new system (and also credit telo Ipi for the small cycle because apparently i forgot ??? pakala mi) so nnn pona https://sona.pona.la/wiki/User:MeliSiliwa/nasin_tenpo_penpo

[native stratus]

nasin tenpo penpo

[errant comet]

yeah not a very accurate name now uhhh

well if worst comes to worst we have Kamalu

[native stratus]

kala mu

[sonic lily]

i think it's fine to keep it for the lore to be fair

[errant comet]

true

[pale river]

well it is still a nasin tenpo [pi toki pona taso]

[sonic lily]

if someone hates nimi sin then they can just render it as a proper name (nasin tenpo Penpo)

[errant comet]

true kin !

also nasin tenpo Kamalu is there too incase anybody else decides to use that lol

[pale river]

true

what exactly does kamalu mean as a content word?

or is that not used anymore

[errant comet]

it's a proper name now but it used to be a nimisin i made for this

[sonic lily]

how is moli skipping date determined

[native stratus]

every 4 weeks

[pale river]

ahh right

[sonic lily]

yeah but based on what

what is the start point

[errant comet]

same vein as pu ku su basically it takes whatever you're talking about and specifically makes it refer to the calendar

so hypothetically ambiguity would be lost

[native stratus]

the wharg

[pale river]

a sona

[native stratus]

the beginning of time

(kala sin)

[pale river]

my guess would be that it begins from the first kala sin in 2001 and the pattern continued from there

[errant comet]

#1266079793884041266 message (i should unpin this message since this isn't canon anymore but whatevs lol)

[sonic lily]

i see thanks

[pale river]

oooh right

[errant comet]

pona

[sonic lily]

oh also why not "taso" instead of penpo as a day name

[native stratus]

because lore

[pale river]

hm i think that could be confusing honestly, mi la mun is better

although

maybe suno mun could confuse people idk

[sonic lily]

yeah but i thought penpo was canceled

[native stratus]

well the last day of the week is officially called mun now

that's just an old calendar

[sonic lily]

yeah it feels a little weird having a day named after another time unit

[pale river]

well mun isn’t a time unit in this right

unless used for night i suppose

[sonic lily]

it is, the week cycles yeah

[pale river]

oh yeah a week is a half mun

roughly

[sonic lily]

i use week loosely

[native stratus]

that is a good observation

[sonic lily]

yeah

[golden island]

Wait uh

[errant comet]

hi nanpa Walijo

[sonic lily]

also I'm writing EVERYTHING down

[golden island]

The year is linked to SPTP, right?

THat's a tie to gregorian

[native stratus]

ye

[golden island]

I could try making a convertor

[sonic lily]

mainly because i wanna put together a calendar generator later

[errant comet]

every year starts on august 8th (the technical suno pi toki pona) so yea

[golden island]

So wait

[native stratus]

another tie to gregorian is that the first day of kipisi luka is always january 1

[golden island]

how do we account for like

[sonic lily]

this is so nice

[native stratus]

indeed

a sheer coincidence

[golden island]

leap years

What do we do in leap years

[errant comet]

that was absolutely not intentional but it is a really useful coincidence

[pale river]

there is currently a calendar converter but it’s fairly basic and might be outdated now

[sonic lily]

extra day in poka

[errant comet]

poka gets one extra day

[golden island]

A

oki

Does that correspond to the actual leap year

In gregorian

[pale river]

isn’t it poka in the previous year

[errant comet]

yeah that too

[pale river]

like as in, the year before sptp in the gregorian calendar

[sonic lily]

well "previous" but years span two gregorian years

[native stratus]

example of leap year

[pale river]

well yeah

the one in the first part of the gregorian leap year

[sonic lily]

it occurs during the march-may cycle after a leap day

[golden island]

Oh wait uh

[native stratus]

ye

[golden island]

If the leap year happens in the year before the in gregorian

Then how does it stay aligned with like

SPTP

[native stratus]

the start of the year is simply defined as being sptp

[sonic lily]

it doesn't, the week cycles don't align with the month and year cycles

[errant comet]

yeah the weeks run independently

[golden island]

I feel like tightening this to gregorian may have pali'd a little ike here

[pale river]

i think it makes sense

[golden island]

I need to look at the calendars

[sonic lily]

nah it makes sense

[pale river]

it would be too complicated to convert if they diverged

[golden island]

to see how this looks in practice

[pale river]

like in an ideal world this calendar would be totally detached from the gregorian calendar but currently that would be too complicated i think

[errant comet]

o lukin e ni nanpa Walijo o

[sonic lily]

okay also
what was the day of the mun for sptp this year
when is the next moli skip

[errant comet]

sptp is toki

next moli skip i'm not sure kemme check

[native stratus]

next moli skip is next week

[golden island]

nnn

I should read this

[pale river]

is sptp always toki or does it change

[native stratus]

current day is highlighted

[native stratus]

changes

[errant comet]

it changes

[pale river]

sona

[golden island]

So I should make a convertor RQ

[errant comet]

that'd be nice yea :D

[golden island]

I'll draft it out pretty quick

[pale river]

a converted that would allow you to select a date to convert would be nice

the current converter only tells you today’s date

[errant comet]

yea that too

[pale river]

and also doesn’t let you convert from nasin tenpo penpo into gregorian

that was an abysmal typo

[golden island]

First I'll check the nearest SPTP

For EVERY MONTH except kipisi poka

[errant comet]

i kinda wish i'd have called this a prototype in the sptp presentation now but whatever we ball

[golden island]

There's always a perfect overlap I think

Thanks to the SPTP anchoring

[errant comet]

yeah they're all exactly 73 days long (except leap year poka but like duh)

[golden island]

So I need to verify

If the date converted is in a leap year and it's kipisi poka

Then it's not exact

otherwise it's perfect

[sonic lily]

no it just shifts a day back from normal

[errant comet]

yeah

[golden island]

Lemme start workshopping the program

Without years for now but

[errant comet]

fair

[sonic lily]

notes

[native stratus]

notes

[golden island]

Uh ojh

I realised

the week calculation is kinda hard

[native stratus]

j

[golden island]

THe week cycles every 29 years

[errant comet]

pona mute

[golden island]

the years cycle 30 years

Uhhh

[errant comet]

lol

[native stratus]

wait is that true

[errant comet]

maybe ?

i'm not entirely sure how to check that

[native stratus]

actually what does that even mean

buh

[errant comet]

ermm

[sonic lily]

i want a calander visualizer where each layer is a ring and they move with the time and stuff

it would be such a hassle to code but omg it would kick ass

[native stratus]

sounds dope

could also make that irl

[pale river]

wait wdym it cycles

[crude stump]

mi ante lili e lipu lon ma lipu sona pona li weka e nimi 'penpo' lon 'tenpo penpo' lon ale - o lukin o toki e pona e ike

[errant comet]

pona

[crude stump]

pona

[native stratus]

slightly inaccurate

in kala kama and waso tawa there are instances of the same day occuring 6 times in a month

this only happens when moli is skipped in the first week of a leap month

this will next happen in akesi kama

[errant comet]

we found it.... day nanpa luka wan....

okay added

[native stratus]

better version with more compact formatting and random facts

this concludes my efforts

[native stratus]

also penpo replaced with mun

[errant comet]

thank you for your service 🫡

pona :D

mi musi

[errant comet]

ok new kijetesantakalu tawa sheets yay !!! the skipped molis moved around a tad so i had to update them from the old ones (and also mun) so uhh yeah :D posting them here but they're also now in the google drive folder too

i'm gonna be making one of these for kala sin pi toki pona and then just work on the others when i have time i guess !!

[errant comet]

kala sinnnnnnn i am going to bed

[ashen moat]

OWO nasin sin

[native stratus]

[ashen moat]

I'll lukin tawa ni later

👀

[crude stump]

ike seme

[native stratus]

the part where it says there can only be 5 weeks in a month

[crude stump]

kasi

[sonic lily]

im working on this and it looks neat

[sonic lily]

@errant comet what if instead of week numbers we could reuse the [sin, kama, awen, tawa, weka] sequence, and used "namako" for the rare extra week

also calendar tool is in progress!

[errant comet]

i like that yea

musi lon kama

also yay jupi

sina ken ala ken pana e lukin ?

[sonic lily]

soon™️

[errant comet]

sona

[sonic lily]

namako would be inserted between tawa and weka though, so that one month's weka always goes to the next month's sin

@errant comet ❗

[errant comet]

noku

[sonic lily]

it does say moku

[errant comet]

ohh

ok wait what's the issue

[sonic lily]

oh nothing it just was that i got thr thing workingg

[sonic lily]

nothing now! https://codepen.io/thurm64/full/LYKBoOr

it should work

i am so happy with this

[errant comet]

frozen for me rn but it was working for a bit and it was really cool

[sonic lily]

it probably would fix if you reload I'm guessing there's some kind of error

[errant comet]

yeah it's stuck on today's date on my end 😔 might be something to do with mobile idk

[sonic lily]

or codepen is being dumb in which case whatevrr

[errant comet]

i'll try on my computer when i get home

[native stratus]

according to this my birthday is on june 15 2005

instead of june 16

perhaps i made an error with the spreadsheet

[sonic lily]

it should be right, it gives me accurate dates relative to the 2001 calendar and the 2023/2024 calendars

huh and it can't be a leap year bug either

There was a leap year bug ofc

but unrelated

[errant comet]

lol

[sonic lily]

its definitely bugged

[sonic lily]

aha! i found the bug

the calculations for when moli gets skipped were messed up

so it lead to occasional off by one errors in mun with two moli

[errant comet]

ahh okay that makes sense

that's easy to fix right

[sonic lily]

yeah i took care of it

there's something off still though

[sonic lily]

wait this only applies if the month starts on kasi

[errant comet]

true !

[sonic lily]

anyways i was hunting a bug that didn't exist for an hour because of this

[errant comet]

ohh lmao

the mysterious 6th kasi

[sonic lily]

also it's nice to remember that each sijelo starts one day earlier in the cycle

[sonic lily]

although it actually is another interesting edge case: neither sijelo gets the moli

[errant comet]

lanpan moli

[sonic lily]

that moli block won't exist on either calendar

nasa a

[native stratus]

nope

it happens in any leap month where moli is skipped twice

[sonic lily]

wait is that poka month chart on last year's leap month

[native stratus]

ye

no

that's 2007

but it did happen last year

[sonic lily]

ohh ok

[native stratus]

it happens every 16 years

[sonic lily]

yeah makes sense

[native stratus]

So is the long cycle being used for the week numbers an official thing now

[errant comet]

i like it honestly it saves a couple words and gets rid of the nanpa

[native stratus]

yuh

[errant comet]

we finally did it... no more nanpa...

[native stratus]

gg

[pale river]

hold on wdym by this

[sonic lily]

week 1/6 = sin
week 2 = kama
week 3 = awen
week 4 = tawa
week 5 = weka

on the edge case where a day appears 6 times in a month, it's described as namako

[errant comet]

yea

[sonic lily]

i also fixed this in a really dumb way

it just converts the date to be checked and the date 74 days before it into text and sees if the text matches

[errant comet]

lol fair

[sonic lily]

horrible fix but whatever i can't be arsed to figure out the proper math

[sonic lily]

okay HOPEFULLY! everything works!

the week cycle finally actually works

I'm so done

oh also the start of poka is pi day in leap years which is fun

or the end of sijelo in non-leap years

[errant comet]

hmm... i tried putting my birthday in the calculator and got back mama kama noka instead of musi kama noka so ermm

(there is also a chance that i just can't count lol)

[crude stump]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Lunisolar_calendar

sina sona ala sona e ni: jan li pali e nasin nimi ante tawa kipisi pi tenpo sike lon tenpo pini?

pilin mi la nasin ni li pona a (la nasin "penpo" li pona lili)

tan ni: mi kute e nimi li sona ala e nasin la mi awen ken sona e mute! e ni: tenpo ni en tenpo ante la ona seme li nanpa wan

e ni: mi kute e tenpo ante tu la ona li weka pi suli seme

[errant comet]

i only heard abt this (and nasin tenpo pona) when the ntp page was added to the calendars page on sona pona
ni la mi sona ala e ni e nasin tenpo ante pi toki pona lon tenpo pi pali ni

[crude stump]

sona

[errant comet]

ok nevermind we are good i just can't count

the toki pona has taken over my brain i can't count past three no more

[native stratus]

i like nasin tenpo penpo more than both of those systems

[errant comet]

yeah tbh i read through the article and they don't rlly seem that similar

to like ntp

[crude stump]

lon la ante mute. taso nasin ante li pona nanpa wan tawa wile mi

wile sina li seme la nasin nimi mun suno li pona ala tawa sina

[native stratus]

nasin tenpo penpo li musi

suno ante ale li jo e nimi musi

[crude stump]

a a sina wile musi

mi kama sona

mi ^

[errant comet]

nasin nimi mun suno li seme lon ni

aaa.. ken la mi sona
mi wile e sijelo pona tawa nasin ni. suno selo mun li ante mute li jaki. sijelo pona la jan li ken sona e nasin kepeken sona pi mute lili. taso, sijelo pi suno selo mun la jan li ken ala sona e nasin kepeken ni, ona li kepeken ala lipu la ona li ken kama nasin ala

tenpo pi kule sewi li ni kin. ma li tu li kepeken kule sewi jasima. mi toki e "tenpo seli" la ni li lon tenpo mun #LW - #LTW lon ma tu Note. taso "tenpo seli" li lon tenpo mun #LLT - #T lon ma tu Sute. sina pona ala e ni la ni li ken kama nasa

[crude stump]

ona li nimi e tenpo tan mun tan suno

[errant comet]

a

[crude stump]

taso a mi kama sona

[crude stump]

nasin ni la jan o lukin e mun

a, lon la ala, jan li ken lukin e ma pona pi toki pona e #1066415020621185094 anu seme

[errant comet]

ken

[crude stump]

n ni li kule sewi ala li ... kule seli anu seme...

[errant comet]

ken...

[golden island]

I'm gonna make a doomsday rule for this

[errant comet]

a what

[golden island]

Rule for determining the day of the week

[errant comet]

oh

[sonic lily]

okay i just realized isn't it a little weird that mun sin is at the beginning AND end of a tenpo sijelo

[past basalt]

it's so weird that those are called doomsday rules

[sonic lily]

it makes sense in that it merges with the next sijelo's sin, but also what if one wanted to celebrate their birthday based on its ntp date instead of its gregorian date, for example

nvm if you're born on sin you just celebrate during the mun, even if the sijelo changes back and forth from the boundary

[sonic lily]

so if you're born on toki sin lawa, at the start of the sijelo, your birthday may instead fall on toki sin noka some years. if you're born on toki sin lawa at the end, it'll fall on luka some years

[errant comet]

yea

[sonic lily]

maybe described like: "toki sin pi open lawa" / "toki sin pi pini lawa"

also too bad if you're born on moli ☠️

[errant comet]

i'f you're born on the mysterious 6th kasi you only get a birthday every 16 years /j

[sonic lily]

tragique

can the final day of weka ever be missed?

[errant comet]

i'm not sure but i think not ?

[sonic lily]

there would be two moli skipped every time right

so 75 squares filled in the grid