toki pona Rock Paper Scissors

[keen cave]

I’d like to make a toki pona version of Rock Paper Scissors with the toki pona animal words:

• jan
• soweli
• waso
• akesi
• pipi
• kala
• kijetesantakalu
  Perhaps this should be changed to some other words so that it’s easier to decide which ones beat the others. I’d also like to create hand signs for each of these, like in Rock Paper Scissors.
  I might not do this right now, but I wanted to make the post anyway

[tropic crane]

you need an odd number to make a balanced game

the kijetesantakalu calls

[keen cave]

ooh nice one

kijetesantakalu it is then

[tropic crane]

each word will beat 3 others, and be beaten by the other 3

kijetesantakalu li moli e pipi e kala e akesi

pona ala pona

[keen cave]

well i feel like there should be some logic to which animal defeats what

since regular rock paper scissors is kinda arbitrary

[tropic crane]

true

[keen cave]

like how does paper best rock

[tropic crane]

because the game designers needed paper to beat something a a a

[keen cave]

a a a

i like @solar hollow’s hand sign for soweli

[tropic crane]

but you're right logic is very helpful when there are so many interactions to remember

[keen cave]

wrong ping oops lol

[tropic crane]

idea (musi): kiwen lipu kipisi

[keen cave]

a a

i mean a simpler version could be fun too

along with the 7-word one

[tropic crane]

we could have one with 3 of them, one with 5 of them, and one with 7 of them

so that you can start off easy and learn more as you go

[keen cave]

ooh true
maybe each one could have a different theme/word set too

[tropic crane]

maybe

but if you just take a subset of these, then you can memorise the interactions between them, then add more

[keen cave]

hmm true

start with soweli waso and uh smth else

i feel like soweli would defeat most of the others lol so not sure what to use

[tropic crane]

this could be a hand sign for kala

with the thumb and next finger

you get what i mean?

[keen cave]

ni anu seme

[tropic crane]

yeah exactly

[keen cave]

that works

i was thinking just a flat hand turned sideways but yours is better i think

i was just gonna do this

[tropic crane]

this, or even the thumb is in front to make it easier to do quickly

[keen cave]

yeah true

[tropic crane]

this sign but with the "horns" turned downward could be jan

[keen cave]

this?

[tropic crane]

yeah

[keen cave]

hm maybe

[tropic crane]

although it'll be like "no i wasn't going to change to soweli i meant jan all along" and opportunity for cheating like that

[keen cave]

true

i was thinking of just doing a circle

this

[tropic crane]

yeah that works

[keen cave]

like without the body

i was thinking a flat hand for akesi

with fingers spread out maybe

[tropic crane]

yeah that's nice

[keen cave]

like that

[tropic crane]

actually maybe that can be pipi

and akesi is more circular

[tropic crane]

halfway between that and a closed fist

fingers pointing inwards

[keen cave]

i was actually thinking the opposite way around

[tropic crane]

i'm imagining a frog here

[keen cave]

i would’ve said that for pipi lmao

i was thinking of a spider with legs curved in

[tropic crane]

either works depending on which you envision

[keen cave]

for akesi i was thinking of a lizard spread out and lying flat

[tropic crane]

ok let's do flat for akesi, curved for pipi

[keen cave]

alright cool

[tropic crane]

maybe palm up for waso

to symbolise a wing

[keen cave]

you could curve your hand too maybe?

[tropic crane]

yeah

[keen cave]

this maybe

[tropic crane]

like akesi+pipi flipped

perfect

[keen cave]

right now for kijetesantakalu

this one seems a bit more complicated lol

[tropic crane]

now we tackle the hard one

best for last

what's the luka pona for it

it's making a mask or smth

[keen cave]

let me check

ah right

[red trout]

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/lipu-linku/ijo/main/lukapona/gif/kijetesantakalu.gif

[tropic crane]

we could go with 2 fingers =

[keen cave]

like that?

[tropic crane]

yeah

[keen cave]

yeah that works

that’s all of them, cool

now which ones do you think are best for the first set of 3

[tropic crane]

waso kala soweli

the core animal words

then we can add akesi and pipi

[keen cave]

that sounds good yeah

[tropic crane]

and then jan and kijetesantakalu

[keen cave]

soweli > waso > kala
and then uhh somehow kala defeats soweli?

[tropic crane]

yeah

[keen cave]

i mean it’s funny so it’s memorable i suppose

[tropic crane]

then which wins akesi or pipi

[keen cave]

i think i should draw a diagram for this lol

[tropic crane]

i'll do that

[keen cave]

i can do it

i don’t mind

[tropic crane]

i have it up already

do you have a lucidspark account?

[keen cave]

alright

[keen cave]

nope

i can make one

[tropic crane]

you just need a google acct

[keen cave]

alright gimme a sec

alright i’ve got it

[tropic crane]

https://lucid.app/lucidspark/abc5dda1-5594-4478-a0fd-7413fdd49347/edit?view_items=C1lDAzIhvYc4&invitationId=inv_da48c2ff-519b-4203-a186-c76220f91e0e

[keen cave]

ooh i see

[tropic crane]

chatting requires premium 😭

[keen cave]

a a a

we can use discord lol

i think pipi should beat soweli but get beaten by kala

there isn’t exactly logic there

but i think it would be fine

[tropic crane]

does pipi or waso win

[keen cave]

waso i think

[tropic crane]

then pipi beats akesi

[keen cave]

hmm

i mean i think both would beat pipi but for the game we can go with akesi beats pipi

and pipi beats waso

[tropic crane]

@worn zealot what were you going to say

[solar hollow]

a

i would think pipi is eaten by kala, waso, and akesi
and bites soweli, jan, and kijetesantakalu

[solar hollow]

shark!!!!

[tropic crane]

ooh nice

[solar hollow]

it covers it from what i’m told

[tropic crane]

how does that beat it though

[solar hollow]

you see now the rock is covered

msa

[tropic crane]

pink is mode 1

with only 3

orange is mode 2

and blue is mode 3

i picked... the worst colours to highlight with

[keen cave]

i was thinking of making a seperate diagram for each so it's easier to see

[keen cave]

@tropic crane what do you think about translating the chant too?

Rock, Paper, Scissors, one two three

"utala musi, o pana!"

and then throw out the sign on the last syllable of pana

[tropic crane]

who says "123"

[keen cave]

me lol

but we can change that too

[tropic crane]

here in Oselija we just say rock paper scissors or rock paper scissors shoot

[keen cave]

yeah people here do that too

but also 123

depends on who you ask

[tropic crane]

i think "utala muSI" is good

short and sweet

the sign is thrown on the si

[keen cave]

whenever you play the game you have to double check which chant you use lol

[tropic crane]

anyway that choice is up to the players

[keen cave]

ooh yeah i like that

[tropic crane]

the first game here is always not counted because people will disagree on shoot or no shoot

almost always

[tropic crane]

this has the same syllable pattern as "paper, scissors, rock!"

actually i've neever heard rock paper scissors without the shoot

only paper scissors rock

[keen cave]

paper scissors rock???

people do that???

[tropic crane]

yes very commonly

the sign is thrown on rock

[tropic crane]

this is the same reaction as mine to 123

[keen cave]

fair lol

[tropic crane]

ok should we put the full thing in pali musi then?

[keen cave]

i'll just add the chant it

"utala musi"

[solar hollow]

shoot is very important so you can cheat and do finger guns which win against everything

[worn zealot]

the tp equivalent would be signing ijo

[keen cave]

a a a

[worn zealot]

well, more like the tp equivalent of this:
https://youtu.be/cOSWCKf6I-Q?si=Lxpu_CdlEN3nrDcD

[keen cave]

this is the finished game

[tropic crane]

pona a. i'll put it in pali musi

[keen cave]

cool

[tropic crane]

(i should be sleeping but 🤷 )

[keen cave]

can i put it in #pana ?

[tropic crane]

sure do that too

i don't have enough time to craft a lipu announcment

so you can do that part

@keen cave now you have to wait 15 minutes

[keen cave]

PAKALA

oh well lol

[tropic crane]

oh well

[keen cave]

i accidentally pressed send before it was finished so i had to delete it

[tropic crane]

a a a

you can wait 15 mins and then send

but fr now mi o lape

[keen cave]

o lape pona a

[tropic crane]

o musi pona a

[ocean flicker]

Kiwen lipu kipisi!

[worn zealot]

kipesi - cutting, but in a gray/brown way
< kipisi kapesi

[solar hollow]

thought i was in bad nimisin for a sec

[modest pine]

toki

musi ni li pona a tawa mi

taso, is it possible to make the diagrams symmetric?

so that each node (animal?) has the same arrow arrangement

[keen cave]

yes, we had this originally

but we decided to change it so that it was more logical

a symmetrical diagram only looks good, the connections don’t make as much sense

currently, all three of the “original” words beat kijetesantakalu

and jan beats all the originals

[small spear]

So we already have 3 animal, 5 animal, and 7 animal versions. Can the one animal version be called "kala"?

[tropic crane]

kala, akesi then kijetesantakalu

sounds good

[small spear]

Peak. Rock paper scissors but only kala is the best version

[tropic crane]

kala kala kala!

[small spear]

o kala!

[keen cave]

i think one of my friends wants to make a 9-animal version

with kasi and soko

not really animals but yk

[tropic crane]

possible

soko beats kasi, kijetesantakalu, akesi, soweli
kasi beats pipi, waso, kala, jan

[keen cave]

i think kijetesantakalu should beat soko though

because kijetesantakalu tonsi li lanpan e soko

[tropic crane]

oh yeah!

soko beats kasi, pipi, akesi, soweli
kasi beats kala, waso, kijetesantakalu, jan

[idle swallow]

the system what bets what isn't really logical tho

[small spear]

Do a 10 animal version and add me!

[idle swallow]

and hard to memorize
I think we should try to pick words that make a logical but fair

[small spear]

I lose to everything

I also liked what someone said about using the luka pona signs for the hand symbols!

[idle swallow]

I have made this 5 star cycle thing that is fair and only has a few sorta illogical ones
it's for things tho

[small spear]

Does this game have a name? musi Luka Utala?

[idle swallow]

no not really

seli🔥li pakala e kasi🌱 e wawa⚡
kasi🌱 li pakala e kiwen🪨 e telo💧
kiwen🪨 li pakala e wawa⚡e seli🔥
wawa⚡li pakala e telo💧e kasi🌱
telo💧li pakala e seli🔥e kiwen 🪨

[small spear]

This looks like one of those emoji shitposts lol

[idle swallow]

how do u feel about it

[small spear]

Ooh I feel like this is really cool!

[keen cave]

“utala musi” i guess?

[keen cave]

it’s hard to make it logical to be honest
changing one thing means you need to change a load of others to make it balanced, which then lead to even less logical matches

[modest pine]

impossible, there has to be an uneven amount of animals

or else the game is unfair

[small spear]

Ooh add me twice!

I lose to everything twice

[modest pine]

unsymmetrical graph

[tropic crane]

this is pretty good

[bright kernel]

If it's Mandarin, cloth covers rock.

[bright kernel]

kijetesantakalu beats all

[tropic crane]

in english paper covers rock as well, it's just not clear why covering defeats it

[tropic crane]

not quite

[bright kernel]

Ik but i was thinking, it's a bit hard for a paper to cover a rock since it doesnt fold as nicely over it

[bright kernel]

Are there hand signs for each of them?

[tropic crane]

yes

#1241695670398619710 message

designed by

[bright kernel]

pipi beats jan lol.
i suppose pipi scare jan

[tropic crane]

me and kasi Majeli

[bright kernel]

i love this

dualuna

[storm saffron]

tenpo mute li weka la mi toki nanpa wan

[candid jay]

version based on the 5 elements of chinese culture

[tropic crane]

wowowow

[tropic crane]

the RPS of this thread has 3 versions, a simple one with 3, then 5, then 7

[storm saffron]

kasi li anpa tan seli ala

kasi li anpa e seli

[tropic crane]

all the interactions in the small one still work in the big one, so you can work your way up

[candid jay]

kiwen is interchangable with ilo

[tropic crane]

do you have handsigns

[candid jay]

not really, no

[tropic crane]

sad

you should make some

[candid jay]

I'll try