sona.pona.la

[split grail]

if the examples are not good, here's the good part of this being a wiki, we can change them

[noble gulch]

Exactly

I guess I should say that I will try to only include examples that are written by other authors as a way of keeping myself honest.

[split grail]

it's alright

[noble gulch]

I think that'd be a good policy for all of us to adopt, but as you say, in a wiki everything is provisional and can be improved.

[upbeat summit]

hrm

Either way, can we just add a ref parameter to the example template

so the SP field is actually for SPing it and not just repeating it without the ref tag

[split grail]

yes pls

[split grail]

what is the name of the number system used in utala.pona.la

ni

[grand marten]

[[nasin nanpa pona]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/nasin_nanpa_pona

[upbeat summit]

looks like that la notation is just for dividing parts of dates

[split grail]

yeah

[upbeat summit]

#Y)#M)#D

[split grail]

it is very cool

I think

one more to add here

maybe there should be a table, there's probably more of these

huh, it seems like the italics carry over even here, that's nice

do they have screen screen reader support like so

[upbeat summit]

i think the extension just rips whatever is in {{DISPLAYTITLE:}}

and {{tp title}} ultimately invokes something to the effect of {{DISPLAYTITLE:{{tp|{{PAGENAME}}}}}} iirc

so it shoooouuuuld

[split grail]

yippee

[upbeat summit]

the magic of templates

[split grail]

thank you MediaWiki, very cool

[split grail]

if you are all willing to do some word articles
here are the ones that I'm not able to do (because I don't fully understand them):

• enko
• jasima
• leko
• pali
• wile

well, don't understand beyond the basics

[noble gulch]

"wile" is next in the queue for me, along with the rest of the pre-verbs.

[split grail]

wawa

[noble gulch]

When doing etymologies, is it worth tracing it back past the source language?

e.g. From Middle Dutch willen, from Old Dutch willen, from Proto-West Germanic *willjan, from Proto-Germanic *wiljaną, from Proto-Indo-European *welh₁-. for "wile"

[split grail]

not really

a cut off at 'from Dutch willen' is good enough

because that is what is most relevant

[noble gulch]

That seems to be excessive to me: the proximate source is the Dutch word "willen", though it's interesting that it's closely related to English "will" and German "wollen"

[split grail]

the only thing that I would consider maybe adding are cognates?

[noble gulch]

Yeah exactly.

[split grail]

From Dutch willen mu mu mu... Cognate with English will and German wollen

[noble gulch]

Noted.

[split grail]

this works

it is nice

(and also helps people to be like omg!! thatss a word in my language now i know)

[noble gulch]

How to cite book?

More generally, what would it look like to rationalize the citations? Does MediaWiki support bibtex?

[split grail]

@upbeat summit mu

for right now, just cite it without a template because we don't have that

[noble gulch]

kk

[split grail]

jan Peton o, little nitpick, do not capitalise things in title case (Content Word), instead use sentence case (Content word)

[noble gulch]

Ok, noted.

Is there a style guide somewhere?

[split grail]

I mean

I follow Wikipedia's style guide

see WP:MOS

it is a long read :3

[noble gulch]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style

?

I'll use this then.

Thanks!

[split grail]

this yes

jan pali ante o, ni li pona ala pona tawa sina

ignore that German has a typo, it's 'wollen'

[noble gulch]

The romance cognates are via Proto-Indo-European!

That's fun.

[split grail]

I didn't want to touch on this page, because of this. it is.. a bit more complicated than that appanretly? see lipamanka

[split grail]

woo

[noble gulch]

A warning I have for wile is assuming it contains the idea of a "need." A "need" is a complex concept and trying to use wile to describe it is misguided. While most needs can be framed as types of desires, the goal of "wile" isn't to merge those concepts, it's to throw one of them away. This enables a toki ponist align their desires with their actions by giving them a word to describe their desires without any complex connotation. Sometimes it's more useful to say "my body wants food, but I don't want to eat."

That's lipamanka.

Moving over to page discussion.

[upbeat summit]

There is a further clarification on [[Cognates]] that i think should be in here

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Cognates

[upbeat summit]

"to wish, to desire, to long", as in at will, do what you will, where there's a will there's a way, willful, and willpower, not the future tense

[split grail]

ooh

wawa

[upbeat summit]

i Have seen people mistake wile for future tense marker so

[split grail]

mi wile utala e jan ni

oh 'mistake'

mi pana e kiwen tawa anpa

[split grail]

should it include allophones

/'an.pa/ ['an.pa ~ 'am.pa] 🔊

like Wiktionary

[upbeat summit]

maybe, if i can figure out a good way to implement that

[split grail]

good luck

that is what you get by using replace commands for a template

[upbeat summit]

how Should i have done it,,

[split grail]

you made it sound like it was a bodgy way of doing, that is the only thing that I know, asking me how to code?? in Wikitext????? o noh

[hot trout]

<ref>jan Pensa, sona pona commit record (2023-07-30) https://sona.pona.la/w/index.php?title=kepeken_e&oldid=1570</ref> oh no 😄
that took me by surprise, sorry

[split grail]

autociting

[upbeat summit]

okay did i do it

[noble gulch]

I don't have another source, so I was hoping to solicit something more concrete!

But yeah I fully don't expect that source to stay there, but I believe jan Pensa about it.

[dark tree]

this is so cool, i never knew it was cognate with vouloir

[grand marten]

https://mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Scribunto

[upbeat summit]

okay but how should i have done it without learning Lua,,

[grand marten]

:p

[upbeat summit]

if we have that extension enabled though

i could try to get up to speed with it

[grand marten]

lukin la ma [Miraheze] la ona li ken ala lon ala

[split grail]

ken ala lon ala
nimi ante la ma Miraheze la ona li lon.?

[upbeat summit]

la ona li lon ale…Y?

[grand marten]

ni

mi ken ala weka e ona

[split grail]

aa

pona

[noble gulch]

toki Lua li sama a toki mute ante.

sina sona toki Python li sona toki JavasScript la sina ken kama pali kepeken toki Lua. ona li ante lili, taso nasin pilin li sama. kin la toki ilo ale li sama mute anu seme: ilo li wan.

taso mi kin li sona ala toki Lua a a a li lukin taso e ona lili lon tenpo ni: jan li pana lukin e pali ona tawa mi.

[split grail]

taso

nimi nanpa wan li 1 li 0 ala

toki Lua la ni taso li sona mi sdfjklsjf

[noble gulch]

seme a

sama ni anu seme:

foo[1]
=> 'a'

[split grail]

kulupu ijo la

ni

[noble gulch]

a a a a

ni li "pona"

[split grail]

nn

""""""""""""""""""""pona""""""""""""""""""""

[noble gulch]

lon

[noble gulch]

Is there a way to see a comprehensive list of all the {{cite ...}} templates?

[grand marten]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex?prefix=cite&namespace=10

[noble gulch]

sina wawa

[mighty seal]

is there a way to track web traffic, like which are the top 10 most visited pages?

[split grail]

I think so

[grand marten]

sona mi la ken ala

[split grail]

a

there is this,,
https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Special:MostRevisions

not sure if it's useful

but it exists

pages with more edits have more visits,,, (from editors)

it is true

big jump

[split grail]

oo

[[Special:Analytics]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Special:Analytics

[split grail]

that is Not what I asked for

but that is still cool

[split grail]

other than that, Special:SpecialPages has a lot of fun pages, like the oldest, longest, shortest and more™

[grand marten]

a ijo li toki e wile ni · lon · tenpo weka a https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T329925

[split grail]

a

wawa

[noble gulch]

I assume this means that people are clicking on the Learning Resources link on tokipona.org, or clicking on Where is Toki Pona spoken, which sends them to wikipesija which redirects to sona.pona.la

[split grail]

that would make sense

[noble gulch]

This is nifty too.

[split grail]

if that is the number of people that have used sona.pona.la wowsies

[noble gulch]

I think it counts unique visits.

[split grail]

o

[noble gulch]

But only over the last 30 days.

[split grail]

that makes me feel way less powerful

[noble gulch]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Special:Analytics#mw-section-country

This one is very cool.

Many countries, but USA predominates by an order of 10.

[split grail]

nn

lili

shout out to the person from [ ]

[noble gulch]

Hey we have now an article for Sentence and for Sentence structure.

My bad on adding the former when the latter exists.

How should merge?

I also tried deleting the sentence span id from the glossary in an attempt to get things to link to the sentence article, but it didn't work.

I'm gonna take a break before bollocksing things further.

[split grail]

jfsklds

[upbeat summit]

o tawa ma tomo

[noble gulch]

Ok I have now scribbled all over the pages, but I think it's good. [[sentence]] redirects to [[sentence structure]].

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/sentence
https://sona.pona.la/wiki/sentence_structure

[noble gulch]

Mother*#$##**

I don't know the way of this tool.

It's something with the capitalization? [[Sentence structure]].

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Sentence_structure

[noble gulch]

whyyyyyy

I don't understaaaaaaannnddddd

[hot trout]

It had to be set up this way to allow for lowercase titles

[noble gulch]

So case is significant when linking to article titles?

[hot trout]

yes

[split grail]

I sometimes feel like Diogenes trying to poke at the limits of words

behold! pipi luka

[golden rock]

five guys
grabby males

[split grail]

yessss

[noble gulch]

https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0258%3Abook%3D6%3Achapter%3D2

Diogenes Laërtius is looked at with scorn by modern scholars, who would have done it differently if they were him, but the character of Diogenes the Skeptic is nevertheless hilarious and an inspiration. I love all of his bits.

[upbeat summit]

Fixed the inconsistent infobox width

[split grail]

wawa

[split grail]

sjdgljsdfs

[noble gulch]

mi pana e toki ni lon lipu li awen pilin pona tan ona a a a.

[split grail]

I love it when serious wikis do this

thank you depths of Wikipedia girl

wait.. can I

[[w:Depths of Wikipedia]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/w:Depths_of_Wikipedia

[split grail]

omg!!!!!!!!!!

also @whoever added this feature in Supanpo

do tell how

[hot trout]

It's a custom command with yagpdb

Works with regex, but you basically just have to copypaste it over for your own server

[split grail]

yeah

where is the regex 🥺

[hot trout]

https://yagpdb.xyz/manage/301377942062366741/customcommands/commands/65/

{{/* YAGPDB trigger - Regex : \[\[.+\]\] */}}

{{ $bracketed_phrases := reFindAll `\[\[([^\]]*)\]\]` .Cmd }}
{{ range $bracketed_phrases -}}
  {{/* trim leading "[[" and trailing "]]" */}}
  {{- $wiki_link := slice .
     2
     (sub (len .) 2)
  }}
  {{- $wiki_link = reReplace " " $wiki_link "_" }}
  {{- $wiki_link = urlescape $wiki_link }}
  {{- $wiki_link = joinStr "" "\nhttps://sona.pona.la/wiki/" $wiki_link }}
  {{- $wiki_link }}
{{- end }}

{{/* tan waso */}}```

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/"_and_trailing_"

[noble gulch]

I feel as if this is a time when the saying is true: "I tried to solve a problem with a regex, and now I have two problems."

[dark tree]

so far i haven't seen it get triggered accidentally outside the context of sona.pona.la discussions 🤞👀

[noble gulch]

I second that.

[split grail]

wawa

I don't know this language but to change it to another wiki is just changing the url right?

[dark tree]

yup!

i tried to make the code self explanatory but feel free to ask questions about how it works

[split grail]

yippe

other than that, how do I add it

on the control panel? and then what

[dark tree]

Custom Commands

make a new one, pick Regex from the "trigger type" dropdown

and for the trigger put \[\[.+\]\]

[split grail]

it worked

sina wawa <3

[dark tree]

yay

[upbeat summit]

whoa… portal to the interwiki universe…

[[c:File:Nonbinary flag.svg]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/c:File:Nonbinary_flag.svg

[upbeat summit]

[[github:dmadisetti/sona.js]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/github:dmadisetti%2Fsona.js

[split grail]

GitHub???

what do you mean GitHub is a wiki

[grand marten]

[[wikipesija:ilo nanpa]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/wikipesija:ilo_nanpa

[split grail]

wawa

[split grail]

should the writing systems page be more like the fonts one

as in, it's not a list, but a detailed explanation and stuff

[split grail]

how do I make tables looong, so the header texts fits better

also I finally figured out how to get images to from PDFs

thank you jan Pensa and his jan pona Robin

in doing that I also got some illustrations like these

since we don't have the actual cover (damn you copyright), this will suffice

everything is at [[c:Category:Lipu_tenpo_illustrations]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/c:Category:Lipu_tenpo_illustrations

[grand marten]

o toki tawa jan [Sonja] · ken la ona li pana

[split grail]

@mighty seal o 🥺

sinpin pu en sinpin ku la sina ken ala ken pana e ona tawa mi

[grand marten]

suli la ken pi pana linluwi o lon

[noble gulch]

lipu ku la sitelen musi sinpin li tan jan Lucy Deacon (jan nanpa Lusi) tan jan Vacon Sartirani.

ken pana li ken wile tan ona.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fair_use_images_of_book_covers

pilin mi la mi ken pana e sitelen lipu, taso mi o toki e ni: lawa la jan pali li awen jo e sitelen. taso mi toki e lipu la mi ken kepeken sitelen ona lon nasin Fair Use. taso jan pali pi sitelen lipu o toki e ken lon ni: ona li wile ala la mi o weka e sitelen.

[grand marten]

nasin pi ma [Wikipedia] li ken e pana ni lon wile wawa taso · pona la ni li tawa ala ma [Wikipedia]

[split grail]

mi ken tawa tomo sona linluwi :3

[split grail]

pona a

taso

[split grail]

ni ^

[split grail]

ni kin

mi pana e ona tawa lipu la ona li ken weka tan ni: lawa la jan li jo li lawa e ona

[grand marten]

sina wile e ni lon ma [Wikipedia] la ni · ma [sona.pona.la] la ken pi jan ale a li suli ala · poki [[Template:Other license]] li lon li ken e nasin pi ni ala

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Template:Other_license

[noble gulch]

pilin suli mi la sitelen lipu li pona lon nasin Fair Use: mi toki e lipu lon lipu sona la mi ken pana e kipisi lili ona tawa toki sona. taso ni o lon wile pi jan pali. mi wile ala utala tawa ona.

[split grail]

I fucked up and made this btw

ka kiku lu ka tiku tuki tiki

[noble gulch]

mi toki ala Tiki.

mi toki Tiki ala?

mi sona ala toki Tiki.

[split grail]

sina tuki tiki ala

toki sike

[grand marten]

mi pali e ma [sona.pona.la] · taso kulupu [Miraheze] li lawa wawa e ona · mi sona wawa ala e wile ona

[noble gulch]

a sona

[split grail]

aa kulupu Miraheze li lawa e ma ni

lawa sitelen la ona li toki e ni:

[noble gulch]

nasin lawa pi ma Juke!

wawa. nasin lawa ona li ni: jan li ike. mani li pona. a a a

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_dealing_in_United_Kingdom_law

mi awen pilin e ni: mi ken pana e sitelen. mi pali e lipu sona li alasa ala e mani la mi ken kepeken. taso awen la mi pana e ona kepeken ala nasin CC-BY-4.0 anu seme.

[upbeat summit]

🎸🎸🎸🎸🎸🎸

[split grail]

... computer

[rain ice]

#3503 📣 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/545467374254555137/840691573565161532/computer.mp4

[split grail]

what if we had featured articles like Wikipedia 🥺

[grand marten]

[[sona pona:lipu pona]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/sona_pona:lipu_pona

[split grail]

like on the home page

because I want to see it prettified up

making the 'welcome to sona pona' bigger, together with the start learning here section, moving the shortcuts to the bottom, linking to other resources too maybe, centre the search bar across the entire screen a lot of things

[noble gulch]

Have the "create article" bar be more prominent than the actual search bar throws me for a loop every time.

[split grail]

like this [[pewo:]] shameless advertising

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/pewo:

[split grail]

fuck

[[pewo:main page]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/pewo:main_page

[split grail]

[[mh:pewo:Main page]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/mh:pewo:Main_page

[split grail]

[[mh:pewo:Main Page]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/mh:pewo:Main_Page

[split grail]

THERE

(feel free to delete the rest)

[upbeat summit]

Wikipediïzation 👀

[split grail]

yess

[split grail]

requeset: make the IPA font sans serif, similar to Wikipedia (as opposed to Wiktionary), because it looks a bit awkward in the middle of text

or maybe I'm just accustomed idk..

serif vs sans

[noble gulch]

I think wikipedia editors chose the featured article of the day manually.

[split grail]

maybe not feature article of the day because 1. we smol and 2. too much work

[noble gulch]

Yeah they have a system for scheduling them in advance.

[split grail]

but yes, they do do that

[noble gulch]

Indeed: maybe a random article?

[split grail]

..no

[noble gulch]

I'm poking around at the home page now.

[split grail]

we don't want to feature a stub article

or one in construction

[noble gulch]

I'm not a person whose passion is graphic design

Yeah my thoughts.

Maybe a random article from the category lipu pona?

I'm sure there's a way to do that.

[split grail]

there is exactly two (2) articles there

or three

[noble gulch]

I see four.

Maybe we should be better about adding things to it haha

[split grail]

four...........

we have to make better articles

[noble gulch]

I did a little bit of a thing to the homepage.

https://sona.pona.la

Huh -- I wonder what the logic is for selecting what to embed?

I mean I think I know why that's what's embedded, but I don't know enough about mediawiki to change it.

[split grail]

oooo

I love that

[noble gulch]

thx 😄

[split grail]

now the real test: does it break completely on mobile sjdflskdf

[noble gulch]

It's actually not catastrophic

[split grail]

it does not!

it is good

[noble gulch]

The search bar seems to have a minimum width.

[split grail]

the request button is going off the edge but other than that,,

[noble gulch]

Yeah...

Has anyone ever used the request button?

Where do those requests go?

[split grail]

click it..

[[sona pona:Requests]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/sona_pona:Requests

[noble gulch]

ahhh

wawa

Ok I fixed the thing with the search bar on mobile.

[split grail]

woo

[noble gulch]

I know what I'd have to do in the html to make the discord embed say the right thing, but I'm not sure how to do it in mediawiki.

Discord reads the <meta> tags.

But I don't know how to control them from within mediawiki.

nasin pi ilo ni li awen len tawa mi. mi awen kama sona e ona.

[split grail]

the bottom could maybe do with some review but it is all good

[grand marten]

https://mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TextExtracts#FAQ

https://mediawiki.org/wiki/Open_Graph

[winter sparrow]

I mean jan Sonja could grant us a license

[split grail]

she sent the images but no licence

so abababababababa

[grand marten]

La O Pana Lon Ma [sona.pona.la] · Ona Li Wile Ala E Lipu Pi Ken Pana

Jan [Sonja] Li Pana La Ona Li Wile La Pona

[split grail]

mi SONA A

taso mi wile e ni a. ken pana li lon 🥺

[winter sparrow]

@mighty seal o can you include some text about granting a license to host and display those images on sona pona

[split grail]

or something like a post on Mastodon (like for ku)

[split grail]

(((cuz like if it then is a licence such as CC BY-SA 3.0 or later then it can go to Commons and from there other wikis can use it)

[hot trout]

I wonder if one can publish a low-res version of an image under a license and then the bigger resolutions are unaffected by that license

[grand marten]

kulupu [Creative Commons] la suli la ken ala · https://creativecommons.org/faq/#can-i-apply-a-cc-license-to-low-resolution-copies-of-a-licensed-work-and-reserve-more-rights-in-high-resolution-copies

[hot trout]

a
ni li ken, taso ni la nasin li kama ante nasa li wile e nimi namako

[grand marten]

ala

kulupu ni la lawa ma a li toki e ni → sitelen sama pi suli ante li ijo sama

anu seme

[hot trout]

ken
sina wile ni la sina o sona pona e nasin lawa

Note that, although CC strongly discourages the practice, CC cannot prevent licensors from attempting to impose restrictions through separate agreements on uses the license otherwise would allow. In that case, licensees may be contractually restricted from using the high-resolution copy, for example, even if the licensor has placed a CC license on the low-resolution copy.

ni li lon ala nasin Creative Commons

ni li lon nasin ante

[grand marten]

a taso · jan [Pe] li kama jo e sitelen suli li pana e ona tawa jan [Te] li pakala e nasin · jan [Te] li kama ala lon nasin ni li ken pana lon nasin [CC]

[winter sparrow]

IMO that wouldn't help but IANAL

[hot trout]

yeah it wouldn't

[grand marten]

ni li ken → sitelen pi ken pana li lili ala li ante nasa · "SEME LI PALI E NI 😂⭕⬅️💥"

poka la · jan [Sonja] li wile ala wile pana pi ken ale e sitelen pi sinpin ona

[mighty seal]

are book covers not fair use?

[hot trout]

"fair use" doesn't apply to UK law, and Miraheze, which hosts the wiki, is based in the UK

[mighty seal]

you can use the covers of my books for any purpose.

is that enough?

[winter sparrow]

👍 we can screenshot+link to that I'm sure

someone would have to register a copyright complaint to cause a problem in the first place, which likely would have to be you (or your publisher on your behalf). This is just following best practice around licensing

[mighty seal]

i am the publisher

[noble gulch]

My sense is that it falls clearly within the "fair dealing" portion of UK copyright law, since we are using it for the purposes of noncommercial public scholarship. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on the internet, and I'm particularly not an expert in UK jurisprudence. If nobody files a complaint, though, it's a moot point.

Thanks for the help Sonja!

[split grail]

I fully comprehend everything that you all said

and am very knowledgeable in The Law

I have uploaded the images (someone check see if it's all good)

[noble gulch]

tawa lukin mi la ale li pona

[upbeat summit]

I am not a lawyer = mi loje ala

anyway i'm experimenting with some DPL to get the main section of a lipu pona

[[Template:Feature]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Template:Feature

[upbeat summit]

sotrue

currently i just wrapped the lead section of each article in <onlyinclude /> and stuff

i think it would be better if we just added a parameter to [[Template:lipu pona]] that lets us write a short version that gets transcluded instead

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Template:lipu_pona

[upbeat summit]

done, i think this is better

[grand marten]

mi la ni li pona ala · ijo li ante e toki mama taso e toki poki ala · ken la o poki e toki mama kepeken nasin pi ilo [Labeled Section Transclusion] · https://help.fandom.com/wiki/Extension:DPL3/Parameters:_Controlling_output_volume#include

[upbeat summit]

but then you get <ref /> tags and stuff in the preview 🤢

[grand marten]

a lon

nn ilo pi nasin [Lua] li ken weka e

[upbeat summit]

Further Wikipediaized the main page

Layout is the same as Wikipedia with the lipu pona on the left, but if your window is narrow, "Start learning here" should show up on top

ponalapona?

[upbeat summit]

How did i miss the randomcount option in DPL

well the lipu pona selected is properly random now

[noble gulch]

looks fantastic.

[split grail]

the display title for [[ona vs. ni]] is... a bit broken

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/ona_vs._ni

[split grail]

{{tp title|ona|ni}} → ona vs. ona">ona">ni

[upbeat summit]

oh what is it doing

[split grail]

fucking up

I discovered something, maybe

mi wawa

[upbeat summit]

i thought we were so much closer to finishing the word articles than we are

only 93 of the nimi pu??

[hot trout]

so 27 left

[upbeat summit]

which is still like a whole quarter of what we already have

[split grail]

wooooo

when I joined there was like, nothing

also this is interesting, i forgor where i found it
http://forums.tokipona.org/viewtopic.php?t=1216

pu is pre-pu??

[hot trout]

pu was announced when pu was in the process of being made, I think
so 2009

or, well, not really announced, it suddenly appeared on the wiki

[split grail]

ahh

now to try to find it.,.

[split grail]

can we have on the recents articles box, somewhere to go to Special:RecentArticles

mobile sucks and doesn't give you that option on the sidebar

[upbeat summit]

that page doesn't seem to

exist

[split grail]

heck

[[Special:RecentChanges]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Special:RecentChanges

[split grail]

is it that

I think it is

yes

[upbeat summit]

ah

yeah will add

…where do you think would be a good place for it

[split grail]

good question

[grand marten]

nasin [Desktop] pi selo [Vector 2022] li ike mute ala tawa ilo lili

[split grail]

what do you MEAN you have infinite tabs open

[upbeat summit]

lipu ale

[split grail]

selo li pona tawa mi

[upbeat summit]

tomo lipu [Nimi nena sona.pona.la/w/index.php?title=Mair] nimi ale we

[split grail]

nn

ike tawa mi)

ah nvm

I previously was using the app button to show the page like a desktop, that's why it looked bad

completely forgot the option at the bottom

[upbeat summit]

well i added a thing anyhowway

[split grail]

woo

thibg!!!

[grand marten]

ken la mi o weka e selo pi ilo luka la selo ni taso li lon

ike taso li ni → poki sewi li suli ike la lipu li kama suli tawa sinpin ilo

[split grail]

o weka ala e selo ni

[split grail]

@upbeat summit o pona

[upbeat summit]

oh yeah i glanced at it and couldn't make sense of the wikitext and o lape lon tenpo ni la mi tawa

sorry

[split grail]

ahh okay

tawa pona

[grand marten]

Bonus Waso

[upbeat summit]

I just figured out why the highlighting is weird in SP

The space that comes after the word is considered part of the ligature

it takes up space inside the glyph

so when the link coloring or highlighting stops short of the end of the glyph it's because it's like that

it thinks it only goes up to the penultimate character

[noble gulch]

Ahh

[upbeat summit]

ugghhhh dude i'm SO CLOSE to fixing this in template

if i could just avoid replacing markup so <span style=""> doesn't become <span&ZeroWidthSpace;style=""> and break

@grand marten sina sona ala sona toki Luwa e ni

[noble gulch]

Ahhh I see. Yeah this feels like some mediawiki wizardry that's above my pay grade.

[upbeat summit]

might also be important to avoid the target of links

[noble gulch]

This is to fix the weird highlighting in sitelen pona?

[upbeat summit]

and then multiword links with no set target would have to be converted
from [​[nimi mute]​]
to [​[nimi mute|nimi​mute]​]

[noble gulch]

Wild

[upbeat summit]

and probably a dozen other issues would crop up

[grand marten]

n · {{#replace|{{{mu}}}|</mark> <nowiki/>|<nowiki/> </mark>}} li pona seme

[upbeat summit]

maybe it's just more practical to redo every instance of the SP template to have formatting spans encompass the following space

i guess that would solve it for <mark />

not the other stuff though

[grand marten]

ijo ante li seme

[upbeat summit]

links

if you try to link [[e]] it only covers half the glyph

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/e

[upbeat summit]

oh yeah the robot does that

speaking of

[[Prepositions]] exist and i imagine people will have things they want to add or change

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Prepositions

[noble gulch]

wawa

[split grail]

should there be something for words that fell out of use, like iki, pasila, jalan, kapa, peto, etc. (obsolete words)

[split grail]

request: on mobile, this navbox should take up its own space and not cram text like this

it pushes things down so it's pretty

also so cool that sona pona is mentioned on Wikipedia

[split grail]

should I move [[User:SnpoSuwan/Where is Toki Pona used? but divided up]] to mainspace? maybe under the title of "Usages" for now idk

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/User:SnpoSuwan%2FWhere_is_Toki_Pona_used%3F_but_divided_up

[split grail]

in text, is it better 'mu is a not notable content word mu mu mu' or 'is a unnotable content word mu mu mu'

[noble gulch]

What does "notable" mean in this context?

jalan was never used, was it?

[split grail]

it passes a certain threshold according to Linku's surveys

it is used.................................................... kinda

see the reference down there

[split grail]

it doesn't meet a 2% threshold, specifically

[noble gulch]

Interesting

"Rare"?

[split grail]

sorry for my typos

[noble gulch]

"Obscure"?

"Insignificant"?

[split grail]

no

because those terms are already in use

[noble gulch]

Ah so you're looking for something even beyond that for nonce words.

[split grail]

nonce words?

[grand marten]

[[w:Nonce word]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/w:Nonce_word

[split grail]

ahh

[noble gulch]

jalan isn't technically that

kamalawala might be, omekapo.

[split grail]

those aren't really

because people,,,,,,,,,,, sometimes use them

not a lot of the time

but sometimes

(that word is doing a lot of work in that sentence)

[split grail]

I wanted to ask just if one of these sound better than the other

[noble gulch]

I''d prefer "an unnotable"

[winter sparrow]

why do we need to editorialize on notability?

linku usage speaks for itself

[grand marten]

"a non-notable" li pona seme

[split grail]

(sorry can you explain yourself)

these boxes should maybe detect when they are going beneath another thing and then, not.

[winter sparrow]

why is it important for "not notable" to be included there

[split grail]

to show that the word is not often used, the usage category is useful in running text I think

[grand marten]

mi ni

[winter sparrow]

I'd use the category name as the adjective then

"the obscure word ..." or whichever

[split grail]

and that is what I do

[split grail]

I'm researching when pu was coined and it is so fun reading old forum posts of people discussing what this word could mean and it is the silliest meaning than they could imagine
apparently people thought that pu was a comma
http://forums.tokipona.org/viewtopic.php?t=1264&start=10

and also that esun, alasa and pan were late joiners to the pu party

[hot trout]

but 2006??

Un mot alternatif contesté est '''bu''', il agit comme une sorte de virgule pour éviter certains contresens. Ce mot est rejetté par la norme officielle mais il est utilisé ci et là.
2005, even
next day corrected to "pu"

[split grail]

wowzers

everyday I cry because they shut down the original Toki Pona wiki without archiving it

[grand marten]

sona mi la jan [Sonja] li weka e lipu [tokipona.org] tan ma [archive.org] tan wile a

[split grail]

sonjaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[split grail]

do you have the link still so I don't have to sift thru a language I don't speak

[split grail]

I may have already shown these but it is funny to me

[hot trout]

This diff shows the first instance and the correction:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Toki_pona&diff=prev&oldid=4696695

[split grail]

thank youu

[split grail]

ni ale li pipi ala pipi?

[noble gulch]

pipi a!

[split grail]

peepy

[zinc hazel]

this would be the cool

We could call it
"Archaic Words"

[split grail]

I guess

also deprecated words

I don't know what is best

obsolete or archaic

in anyway redirects are our friend

[mighty seal]

kan is another example

peto on the other hand never had any mainstream use

[split grail]

^^^^yes

I did not forget about kan

[split grail]

hm

maybe it and there's also article with other words similar to that

aka? natu? I don't know

anyway archaic is good

[split grail]

Sonja, did anyone use kapa outside of you in 2002

[mighty seal]

hard to know

it may have been 2001 even

[winter sparrow]

this will happen in linku at some point

there's been conversation about how to handle removing words

I think what folks settled on maybe is going to be that the "not notable enough for linku" section is "sandbox" and contains both historic words that aren't notable now, and nimi sin that haven't taken off enough to be included yet

[upbeat summit]

I feel like i'm forgetting something obvious with CSS because i can't figure out how to fix that

[split grail]

@jan nanpa ante

[zinc hazel]

if we remove historic and no longer relevant words from Linku that will motivate e lan to use sona pona

[split grail]

yippee

created the page, do I just delete the sections from the original articles and move them here

except iki, I think that it is worth keeping in the pronouns article

but since kapa is in nena, jalan in noka and pasila in pona, those are a bit different

mi ni

mi moku e mulapisu li pali e lipu

can someone transclude iki pls 👉👈

[upbeat summit]

wow Google is useless these days

[split grail]

Stack isn't Overflowing

[upbeat summit]

i only figured it out once i realized headings don't slip underneath floated elements, and studied, like, every computed CSS value on there

for some reason the solution is overflow:hidden;

[split grail]

ahfjsdklsff

[upbeat summit]

which doesn't hide the text content if it flows onto multiple lines

even though i thought that's what it was meant for

I am so confused

but it works, so.

[split grail]

22 pu words left..

almost a line done

ma is weird because it is a lot

how do people use ma for online things

like 'ma pona' and jan Kita used 'ma Miraheze' today

[upbeat summit]

place

physical (itself an extension of "land") or metaphorical

[split grail]

that much is clear I think

still

why not lipu for document or kulupu for group or etc

and also I like that ma pona has tomo (channels)

[grand marten]

kulupu [Miraheze] li lawa e ma [Miraheze] pi lipu [sona.pona.la]

[split grail]

(do you all want to write it)

[[ma]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/ma

[split grail]

mi laso e linja ale

[noble gulch]

sina wawa a!

[split grail]

sina pona :3

I have now realised that all single vowels are words

a: (emphasis and emotion particle)
e: (direction object particle)
i: (obsolete third-person pronoun)
o: (imperative or volative particle)
u: (reserved word for future use)

[upbeat summit]

oh wow

[upbeat summit]

concept

can someone make a sentence structure diagram

like the ones from English class

and also put it on Wikimedia Commons so it can be used in the schematic field on https://wikidata.org/wiki/Q36846

[winter sparrow]

I have seen sentence diagrams before, but I don't have a link handy to a tool or example

[upbeat summit]

just like a generic one

like

(context clause la) subject (en subject ⋯) li predicate (li predicate ⋯) (e object ⋯) (prep phrase ⋯)

ish

[noble gulch]

You mean a general sentence structure? There's one on sona.pona.la. The article's [[Sentence structure]].

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Sentence_structure

[noble gulch]

Except the site's down.

[upbeat summit]

like an Image

[noble gulch]

Ah

[upbeat summit]

that can be used as an Image,,

[noble gulch]

Hmm

[upbeat summit]

okay has Miraheze always been like this

[upbeat summit]

now it's breaking local images

[split grail]

mi ni: [[Usages]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Usages

[split grail]

do you mean like a tree diagram

[split grail]

saving this here, for later
https://web.archive.org/web/20070914130620/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tokipona/

the Old Yahoo! Group

someone cited this as 'in French' but it is Occitan!!! that's so cool..
https://web.archive.org/web/20081117071403/http://pokipitokipona.free.fr/index.html?page=0

the old internet is so fun

even tho I'm literally Gen Z and didn't grow up on it

ooh tonsni

[split grail]

no it isnt

lipu [[Personal websites]] li suli wawa

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Personal_websites

[split grail]

mi musi tan pali :3

tan pali pi jan ante

mi awen e sona la mi pilin pona

[dark tree]

sina pali pona a

kulupu ni li pona mute

[hot trout]

I can't upload files

[split grail]

yeah

Miraheze is pakola

[noble gulch]

It's nearly trivial to host mediawiki on Vultr, and might be more reliable.

I'm hosting one now for an RPG.

(Vultr is a VPS service, but you can also do pre-packaged applications, of which MediaWiki is one).

[grand marten]

mi lawa e ilo pana lili · ma [Seka] li lon ona · ma ni li ken · taso! · mi tawa e ona la ale o pali e sijelo sin · kin poki li lili a la ona li ken pakala · kin kin ilo [MediaWiki] li pakala la mi taso li ken pona e ona · ma [Miraheze] la kulupu li ken

[noble gulch]

sona pona.

[split grail]

.la

[split grail]

can someone move [[ijo Linku]] to [[Linku]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/ijo_Linku

[split grail]

me when me

[hot trout]

done

[split grail]

sina wawa

[split grail]

the [[History]] page, should the headers be changed from the YYYY-MM-DD format to words, and perhaps group things each month so

2007-07-09 → July 2007
2007-07-25 → July 2007

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/History

[split grail]

in the actual text, include

July 2007

In 9 July, mu mu mu
In 27 July, mu mu mu

[split grail]

ni

[upbeat summit]

proooobably

[upbeat summit]

why not
waso li ken nimi «toki pona» e ona sama

[noble gulch]

Yeah probably. That page is a disaster as a "history": it's more of a "timeline", but renaming the page is a different question altogether.

[split grail]

I added 4000+ bytes and I barely touched a year of it

there are 20/300 done

oh there's colour now

weird

[noble gulch]

Nice.

[noble gulch]

This feels like a job for a script.

[split grail]

it's not just that

it is

• changing and grouping dates
• adding info to references
• change URLs from tiny URLs
• rewrite it because I don't like the writing as well

well, some parts can be automated..

@jan nanpa 🥺

[noble gulch]

Oh my.

Let me see what you've been up to.

[split grail]

also: bug

pipi 🐛

[grand marten]

ilo https://refill.toolforge.org/ng/ li ken ni nanpa tu li ken ni nanpa tu wan

[split grail]

THANK YOU JAN NANPA O 🙏

that is what I meant by it

[split grail]

jan Kita o sina sona mute. o kulupu e ilo e sona sina a

ni li wawa e sitelen mi

[grand marten]

mi alasa lon tenpo pini tan wile pona pi lipu ni a

taso mi kepeken ala tan nasa pi lawa mi

[split grail]

semea

[grand marten]

nja

lili la mi kepeken ala tan ni → poki {{Cite web}} li lon ala tenpo ni

[split grail]

o lon e ona

[grand marten]

ona li lon tenpo lon

li lon tenpo ni ↓ li lon ala tenpo ni ↑

[split grail]

aaa

mi sona

[split grail]

am I doing something wrong because the tool doesn't seem to accept sona pona's archive

[grand marten]

o kepeken nena Use Custom Wikicode

ilo li wile ala e lipu pi kulupu [Wikimedia] ala

[split grail]

damn

[split grail]

calling to add more nucance to the section on [[Gender#Sex]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Gender%23Sex

[split grail]

because since the start of toki pona, people use meli and mije like that, but there is also a pushback to it

interesting things to add: this is a screenshot from the official Toki Pona Wikipedia circa 2005, see how they lupa meli and palisa mije

and 'meli insa anu meli insa' this means trans, ye olde tonsi

[winter sparrow]

😮‍💨 my kingdom for a complete corpus

I really wish we had a good way to be objectively descriptive about the use

[split grail]

i know

but

it is fine

go bit by bit and other people will add onto it

[winter sparrow]

one thing I've noticed in teaching a lot is that there's some stuff people say is a nasin but then when you actually look in tpt spaces it's not really, it's just something that comes up talking about toki pona in english

we just need more tpt spaces that people use

right now so much of the tp sphere is centered on learning

which is great

[split grail]

but it is not everything

[winter sparrow]

but it makes it hard of hard to trace usage just in the wild

[split grail]

true yeah

adding more corpora helps.. maybe

[winter sparrow]

plus like

yeah I just wish there was more spaces for toki pona speakers

I LOVE teaching it

but sometimes I do just want to use it

and the tpt spaces tend to be pretty quiet

[split grail]

wawa tawa toki poners

[dark tree]

have you been to any of the VR meetups? that's where i get most of my tapata

[split grail]

unable to affort a VR headset

[hot trout]

I don't have a headset and I'm joining most weeks!

There is a desktop mode

[winter sparrow]

vrchat isn't cross platform

[dark tree]

ah yeah

[split grail]

o

mi musi Wijasa.. lon ken

[grand marten]

ni li sin → mani la ona li ken lon ilo lili luka

ken la tenpo kama la ni li wile ala e mani

[winter sparrow]

hmm

[split grail]

can we get some shortened references perhaps
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:References_and_page_numbers

because since we cite pu and ku a lot, this isn't particularly nice

[grand marten]

[ilo penpo o lukin ala]
hot take: what if we don't put them in references at all, and instead just do [ku p. 377] with a link to the ku article

[split grail]

lanpan seli

I don't like that very much

[upbeat summit]

beforehand i was just content to link to the books' articles like "According to [[…u]],"

but it's probably not reasonable to go back to that now that we have the reference tag infrastructure

[split grail]

yeah

they are just. better

[split grail]

so my dear kulupu nanpa do you wanna 🥺

[upbeat summit]

How is it now

[[tomo#References]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/tomo%23References

[upbeat summit]

@split grail o

[split grail]

that uh works

citation-wise a bit weird

but it is okay

[grand marten]

ijo nanpa wan kin o toki e nimi lili anu seme · jan sin li sona ala e ni → lipu Toki Pona Dictionary pi jan Sonja Lang li ku

[split grail]

that is why normally it is 'Lang 2021'

[upbeat summit]

but it could also be like.

a Discord message jSonja wrote in 2021

[grand marten]

[ilo penpo o lukin ala]
discord messages don't have pages do they

[split grail]

if there are multiple things from 2021, then they are separated with letters

^ 1. Lang, Sonja (2021a) Toki Pona Dictionary mu mu mu
^ 2. Lang, Sonja (2021b) random Discord message
^ 3. Lang 2021a, p. 8

[upbeat summit]

but the templates can't do that,

[split grail]

and Lang 2021a as shown in the article I sent, it links to the book reference

there is. some template that could, maybe

[grand marten]

taso sina ken ni → ijo suli la id="CITEREFpu" · ijo lili la [#CITEREFpu Lang 2014]

[upbeat summit]

citeref pona?

mi confused

[grand marten]

sem

sina wile sona e sem

[split grail]

is it just my bad internet or are the sitelen pona not sitelening ponaly?

[upbeat summit]

not for me either

[split grail]

pakala a

[upbeat summit]

Miraheze is finally acknowledging "ongoing issues with our file storage"

(https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:RequestImportDumpQueue)

[split grail]

sjdflksdjf

thank you Miraheze

[upbeat summit]

now when are they gonna fix it,,

[split grail]

did you know that my wiki hosted on Miraheze shut down for like a full month or two and we couldn't access it at all like I think last year, it was terrible

[split grail]

maybe now is a good time to add IDs to images, because no one can see them

[upbeat summit]

which

I try to caption them

101 nimi pu pages

[split grail]

any 👍

[split grail]

19 remain

like this

[upbeat summit]

ah shit is that a separate parameter

[split grail]

fjsdklfjsd yeah

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt_text

[upbeat summit]

no i just thought the caption handled it

literally œ

[split grail]

sjghsdfjklsd

o kama sona e ni a
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Accessibility/Alternative_text_for_images

[split grail]

looking around for example sentences for 'lape', what is this

what is jo here

(larger excerpt for context)

[upbeat summit]

pi en

[split grail]

tragic

[split grail]

I am slowly proofreading the notes on lipu pu on Wikisource
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Notes_on_lipu_pu

if there is someone who knows how to write in Wikisource (I know there is because lipu tenpo and lipu kule are on it), can you validate my proofreads, make sure everything is okay thank you

also for some reason it says see nimi.tokipona.org but there is nothing there

and because Sonja deleted her site from the Internet Archive, I can't see if there ever was something there

it can't be just that can it

[hot trout]

It is just that

Before that, it said

This project is tentatively scheduled for winter 2021–22.

[split grail]

ababababbabababab

[grand marten]

Tokiponization suli 👀

[split grail]

wawa

[split grail]

I'm done yippee

[winter sparrow]

I think this is not a good example

[winter sparrow]

mi la it's a calque of "energetic people have rest" or something like that

idk jan wawa from context but the li phrase

I'm pretty sure

[split grail]

it is not, I am looking trying to understand

[winter sparrow]

oh

I think they are using "jan wawa" like "god"

first there was nothing, but the powerful dude was there
they made fish
they turned the air to air
kala li pali lape e wtf is that supposed to mean...
The fish dreamed me/you/everything?

zelda; link's awakening? >.>

"lipu pi jan wawa en kala" 👀
when was this written

[split grail]

it is on utala.pona.la

one of the links at the bottom of the main page

I think..

[winter sparrow]

ah

so more likely a mistake than intended, then

[grand marten]

mi la ni li tan wile · nimi open a li kepeken nasin pi ma [pona] ala la ni kin li nasin ante ni anu seme

ni li jan [] anu seme

[split grail]

ona li jan

li ken kama ante

jan kiwen

[grand marten]

kiwen [Siwen]

[grand marten]

moli sitelen li pini

moli si pini
molini

[hot trout]

pooooooooona a

[hot trout]

taso mi awen ken ala pana e sitelen sin

[split grail]

woo

[winter sparrow]

I think I've heard that germans speaking english will say open/close the lights

[split grail]

I was talking about the fonts being back but ooh

that makes sense

aufmachen and anmachen

zumachen and ausmachen

[hot trout]

instinctively checks if doors are closed and lights are off

[split grail]

the doors are off and the lights are closed

[noble gulch]

I've definitely heard "close the lights" or "shut the lights" (perhaps from "shut off the lights"?)

[upbeat summit]

it seems much more common across languages than a Mostly Englisher like myself would expect

[split grail]

mi ku a

lipu lu kama lon tenpo suno ni!!

[split grail]

is there a scan of the page for nasin nanpa kijetesantakalu

[winter sparrow]

do we need one? ku is just documenting something that someone on here proposed

[split grail]

I know

but it doesn't hurt to have it

and a scan lets you upload it to Wikimedia et al.

[winter sparrow]

a

[winter sparrow]

page idea: an intro portal page that links to some of the most useful tools and sites, organized by task

something that would be useful to hand to a newcomer

and be selective about what links on there, so it's not overwhelming

just "you want to do task X" -> "here's 1-2 links to tools/info for that"

[split grail]

[[resources]]?

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/resources

[split grail]

and then there's [[tools]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/tools

[winter sparrow]

I'm thinking smaller

not a full index, a curated portal

maybe it's better as a web page and not the wiki

[split grail]

yeah

[split grail]

I want to include this message from kama sona in [[ken]]

mi ken ala awen doesn't really mean "i can't wait" in the english sense of "i can't wait, i sure am excited for this!" it's more like, "i can't wait, i am going to die if i don't get a heart transplant within the next hour"

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/ken

[split grail]

ken is literal

also.. two lines done

[noble gulch]

Like a curated "I have a friend who's interested in Toki Pona let me send them a link that won't give them choice paralysis" thing?

I think that could be good, but I could see there being some wrangling over what all gets included.

[split grail]

what is a pasted plant are why are you putting them on a book

[hot trout]

Leaf pressing

[dark tree]

hmm i should modify the script to preserve # symbols

so that Supanpo will post https://sona.pona.la/wiki/tomo#References instead

[upbeat summit]

o ixot anoq yяanoitɔio pona

[dark tree]

since i'm running it through an urlEncode function with no arguments available, that probably means taking the encoded url and replacing %23 with #

[upbeat summit]

its called arts and crafts………… *sniff* philistines………… 😿

[dark tree]

that'll never break right

[split grail]

I am a stupid, do not blame me

[upbeat summit]

i don't thiiiink you can put #s in the article title

e.g. https://mariowiki.com/1_Iggy's_Castle has to use a workaround to get the proper title to display

[dark tree]

oh i just mean posting tomo#References instead of tomo%23References

because it's prettier

oh! i see what you mean

yeah it's probably fine then

any other symbols i should prettify? or just #

[split grail]

does / work

and :

these

[split grail]

template idea: {{other dictionaries}}
perhaps it takes in some parameters, but by default it shows a word definition in other dictionaries

or this.. it makes more sense...sdjfsldf

I am not sure why it seems so many Wiktionary templates are {{R:something}}

ohhh R for References

maybe

[winter sparrow]

The learning list was supposed to be basically that, I think it's a little bloated now but still reasonable.

The list I have in mind is more something a learner or speaker would find useful

[split grail]

the learning resources page?

it really is not

[noble gulch]

Like dictionaries, references and things?

[upbeat summit]

Should we have a template like this to keep track of unresolved talk page discussions? https://mariowiki.com/Template:Talk

[split grail]

if you want, sure

[upbeat summit]

but do i

[split grail]

maybe

perhaps even

[upbeat summit]

prove it…

[split grail]

if want to → do
else → mayhaps

[upbeat summit]

but do you

[split grail]

it is fineeee

[upbeat summit]

but are you fine

how does that make you feeeel

[split grail]

ni li pona. mi pilin ponaaaaa

[split grail]

should we have a category for creators of words

like

Category:Words by Sonja Lang
Category:Words by jan inwin

[noble gulch]

There's some silliness in how the sitelen pona examples are rendered on mobile.

[grand marten]

seme

[split grail]

@upbeat summit you forgot a template

[upbeat summit]

oops

me when i change Hatnote to Notice

[upbeat summit]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Template:Talk

[upbeat summit]

If anyone can figure out why this happens…

[upbeat summit]

will probably go through the talkpages soon

[upbeat summit]

it is good that we are because someone asked a question about us that we missed :P

[upbeat summit]

i went through pretty quickly so i hope i didn't miss anything that outwardly looks resolved but hasn't been

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Category:Talk_pages_with_unresolved_issues

o toki

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Template:R:Linku
https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Template:R:Wikipesija_for_thiss

[split grail]

heck

I added [[Template:R:Linku]] and [[Template:R:Wikipesija]] for thisss, looksies

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Template:R:Linku
https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Template:R:Wikipesija

[split grail]

the templates are not exactly right, but I am lazy to correct it

together with Wikipedia

[split grail]

I forgot Wiktionary too

[[Template:R:Wiktionary]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Template:R:Wiktionary

[noble gulch]

wawa a!

[split grail]

should this go on [[Mascots]]
#1039051696527114290 message

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Mascots

[grand marten]

a ona o tawa [[Text-to-speech]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Text-to-speech

[split grail]

true,

[split grail]

he's so silly

4 :(

also can someone help me with how to explain and put into words this usage of moku (convo with Tekinowi and Nu)
#sona-musi message

[hot trout]

That's just normal?
I guess you could file it under the model that says toki pona doesn't make animacy distinction, which I don't fully subscribe to

[split grail]

I want to emphasize that moku doesn't have to be with actual food and using an actual mouth (or another eating organ)

[dark tree]

i sometimes say that a task eats my power, my time, or other resource

i could easily say that it wekas or wiles instead

[upbeat summit]

I guess one consideration is that moku implies fuel, so maybe it's regularly necessary for something to "eat your time" in order for the activity to sustain itself

or the use of the garbage can feeds off of garbage so it will treat whatever falls in as such

maybe i'm reading too deep into it though

[dark tree]

i do think that a garbage can eats, but mostly because it looks like it's eating

[split grail]

key points for moku

• fuel
• perception of an inanimate object 'eating' something
• weka/wile can mean similar things
• ...

[winter sparrow]

I think of moku mostly as consumption

fuel is a nice idea

[split grail]

moku includes both eating and food, so it's not that much of a stretch

[upbeat summit]

meaucoup also leads to something being used up, weka can just put it somewhere distant

[noble gulch]

sitelen Kanse li pona a

citelenne Kançais li peauna

[upbeat summit]

ʁɑ̃sɛ

(ʁ looks kinda like a K, ~ is from n)

Real!

[upbeat summit]

[[Template:Words]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Template:Words

[upbeat summit]

We're so close…

There's a pattern to fill out at [[User:SnpoSuwan/Word articles]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/User:SnpoSuwan%2FWord_articles

[upbeat summit]

Would anyone more be willing to pitch in

[split grail]

pitch in?

but yeahhh

after that is the hard part: improving the articles

most are incomplete

also, should historical things be hidden?

I don't really think so

it feels weird to do that

having just a notice feels good to me

[split grail]

11...........................

[split grail]

ten

that is not including widespread i think

for some reason, these have spaces between them??

[upbeat summit]

normally this font combines nimi␣ into the glyph

but the whole word is within the link, so i guess it doesn't bother combining the trailing spaces into the preceding words

i don't think linja lipamanka had these oddities…

quite strange

[split grail]

@stk creator unodd it

[upbeat summit]

even it out

[upbeat summit]

I think it's important that learners interact with the template before questionably useful information is exposed, like with the ku data

like someone could just scroll past the notice and think certain sections are still describing modern TP

[grand marten]

la o kule wawa e ona

ken la e toki kin

[upbeat summit]

with nonstandard stuff, it's like, at least someone will be using this, but i think it's pretty widely agreed upon that stuff like iki isn't getting revived and only gets used because people find it in dictionaries and ignore the qualifiers

[split grail]

that is gonna happen anyway

[grand marten]

n · poki li len e toki li kule la kule li wawa e ni → jan li wile open e ona · ni la poki li len la ona o kule ala o lili anu seme

[split grail]

for me, I think no box is fine
it says history and if people don't see that damn.

[upbeat summit]

people have a chance of not seeing many things

also even if they do it's really recent history in the grand scheme of things

[upbeat summit]

okay irrelevant sidebar

i'm impressed by how little is in [[Special:WantedPages]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Special:WantedPages

[upbeat summit]

we could very easily get through all this

i wonder how close that is to the practical ceiling

[split grail]

there are 170 wanted pages