sona.pona.la

[upbeat summit]

I have updated the {{nimi}} infobox with the 2023 Linku usage data

Let me know if there are any bugs

[grand marten]

~~a ona li lon https://sona.pona.la/wiki/pipi~~

[upbeat summit]

ona li lon ala a…

[grand marten]

ona li tawa kon sinpin mi a

[upbeat summit]

Added an arrow for the usage delta between years

[outer stirrup]

o wawa lawa pi ante toki pi Translation Administrator e mi

[grand marten]

n · kulupu ni li lon ala · mi ken pali e ona · ante la mi ken pana e wawa lawa pi ale ali

[outer stirrup]

n wawa ale li ken pona

mi pona 👍

[grand marten]

li ni en mi

[outer stirrup]

aaa.a..aAAAAAa. mi kama lukin e ni: mi jo e sijelo tu

mi nimiTbodt li nimi Tepo

sina ken ala ken wan e ni

taso mi sona ala e ni: mi wile e nimi seme

a...ilo UserMerge li lon ala...

mi toki tawa jan lawa suli

[outer stirrup]

a ante la ilo li sona ala e ni: toki pona li lon. ni la mi ken ala ante e lipu tawa ona. mi pana e wile tawa jan lawa https://phabricator.miraheze.org/T11202

[upbeat summit]

o pana e sona toki pona tawa ilo pona

[grand marten]

mi lawa ala e sijelo pi ma [Miraheze] ale la ken ala

[outer stirrup]

sona

[golden rock]

sorry i just bumped my keyboard and posted something here lmao

im going to backread this thread and see if there's anything i want to participate in

[golden rock]

1. in the future, i would like Linku to link to sona pona articles - their role is similar to Linku's commentary field, but more comprehensive. this also makes sona pona more discoverable

2. i want a list of all navigational boxes. does anyone know how to get that without much trouble?

3. we desperately need "where is toki pona used" and "history of toki pona" maintainers. those articles have been dormant ever since they were forked, for almost a year, and that is not good

[grand marten]

ona tu wan taso li lon · https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere?target=Template%3ANavbox&namespace=10

[golden rock]

got it

im of the opinion all-ish pages should be discoverable through navboxes

4. i think this disclaimer needs some yellow or red signalling warning/danger

5. what's the consensus on articles about individuals? i can see jan Sonja has an article. should anyone else?

[grand marten]

mi open e lipu pi jan [Misali] · ante la mi sona ala

nasin li lili lon tenpo lon

[upbeat summit]

Added an icon

[golden rock]

the mention of "nimi sin" on Common_lexicalizations is a bit unfortunate, it can't decide whether its talking about new coinages or the word nimisin

btw @upbeat summit heads up, we're not splitting obscure, this was done for ease of reading the results post
"not notable" is also not a category but more like a... cutoff point ig

[upbeat summit]

Is this better?

[golden rock]

yea

hmm

thing is, the 2% cutoff currently applies to new words, not old ones

we've not done a cleanup yknow

we've also done a similar thing last year at 1%

[upbeat summit]

ah…

[golden rock]

not sure what's a good way to describe that

in the future we want to move <2% words to a separate resource dubbed "sandbox"

but since it doesn't exist yet, this hasn't been done

the word infobox is slightly broken (across all articles i believe)

[upbeat summit]

agh

I think i messed it up the same way before

[golden rock]

what are yalls preferences regarding the usage of words "Nonstandard" and "Experimental"?

[upbeat summit]

My assumption is that experimental is, like, knowingly nonstandard

you're not sure about it becoming a part of standard TP, you might outright not want it to, but you're playing with it to see what happens

Nonstandard is just some people like using this but right now not everyone will recognize it

[golden rock]

common nasin, really?

from mije and meli being at 82% we can extrapolate its an 18% nasin, making it solidly experimental

[golden rock]

Would you group fonts with art or software?

[upbeat summit]

I think software makes the most sense?

That's how it's categorized

Typography is definitely an art but i think the reader will care much more that a font is a thing to install on their device

[golden rock]

@upbeat summit what do you think of these navbox concepts:

Toki Pona
Words -> Vocabulary
Art and media
Community
Software
Experimental
Grammar

[upbeat summit]

Maybe "Communit__ies__" would be better? I can't see there being a monolith

Otherwise sure

[golden rock]

sure

i meant community as a form of collaboration rather than a list of existing communities

but that's alright too

[upbeat summit]

actually maybe "Experimental" should become a group under a "Styles of Toki Pona" navbox

and speaking of

[golden rock]

"Experimental" sort of spans across vocabulary and grammar

[upbeat summit]

i've been wondering about renaming the toki pona article to its titlecased English form

[golden rock]

not entirely sure what the best approach there is

[golden rock]

i would 👍 it

[upbeat summit]

The language is by no means the only thing that toki pona can refer to, hell maybe there could be a separate article covering things it can mean

and since it's an English-language wiki, it might make more sense if you're looking up the language's name, you find an article in English, and the title is formatted as an English name too?

[golden rock]

@upbeat summit anything im forgetting here?

[upbeat summit]

Fonts should link to the category

You should also add redlinks for any other notable fonts (or other topics) so they can be filled in later imo

[golden rock]

how do i do that btw? i tried [[Category:Fonts|Fonts]] but it shows up as a blank space instead of Fonts with a link

[upbeat summit]

yeah, that adds it to the category (when you preview, note the bar at the bottom, below the editor for some reason)—you need to add an extra colon before Category to escape this

[[:Category:Fonts|Fonts]]

[golden rock]

got it, never done wiki stuff

[upbeat summit]

You get used to it

I like wikitext because despite these weird edge cases i feel it's really lightweight—the more complex stuff is deferred to outright HTML and CSS

[golden rock]

the respective topics of articles "Software" and "Tools" dont seem to be delineated clearly

@upbeat summit is it okay if i focus on linking together existing pages, rather than on planning ahead? im considering renaming the category "[[Software]] and [[Tools|tools]]" for now until someone resolves the duplication issue

[upbeat summit]

I haven't been super involved with those articles, so, shrug

[golden rock]

oh wait the title and link are separate entries here that might not be possible lol

nvm it works

@upbeat summit let's consider the category of "common words" such as epiku and oko
would you put them together with Words? Category:Experimental? Category:Nonstandard?

btw feel free to tell me off if im annoying you

[upbeat summit]

They don't seem that nonstandard since they're nimi ku suli and oko is in all editions of pu, so i'm not sure

but if you need to put multiple navboxes on an article you can

[golden rock]

@upbeat summit any idea what im doing wrong? im trying to use subgroups like on wikipedia but navbox behaviour seems to be different?

[upbeat summit]

wha

well i just made the navbox from scratch so it's missing those sorts of features

[golden rock]

trying to make this display as this

[golden rock]

huh

it looked like a premade component to me

[upbeat summit]

then i designed it well 👁️

[golden rock]

true

well, that explains why it breaks after 6 groups

[hot trout]

gendern't is a spectrum, but yes, common, not in terms of necessarily consciously avoiding gender words 100% of the time - mostly it just happens

[upbeat summit]

Do you need more than 6 groups 🤔

[grand marten]

ma [Wikipedia] la poki li tan ilo pi nasin [Lua] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Module:Navbox

[upbeat summit]

👀** **

lipu sona pona li κ x κ kpk nasin Luwa

[grand marten]

sona lili mi la ken

[golden rock]

i tried more than 6 groups when i realised i can't do subgroups nicely

in a good reorganisation, probably not no

[grim mural]

looks like the font used for the IPA template doesn't display o̞ properly (at least on my PC)

it falls back on a non-serif font

[upbeat summit]

The o looks fine on my end but the diacritic is off-center

I thought this was specifically an IPA-compatible font, smh

[golden rock]

which font did you use? andika?

try noto serif next

[upbeat summit]

It's Gentium

[grim mural]

I went and had a look which fonts Wiktionary uses for its IPA template

Turns out it's exactly the same fonts we use on sona pona

so the fonts aren't the problem, likely

oh wait, maybe it works on Wiktionary because they use font-variant-ligatures:no-common-ligatures 🤔

I can test that

no, doesn't look like that fixed it

[mighty seal]

i think Gentium is what I used in pu too

[upbeat summit]

and it looks fine in pu

because of course that exact diacritic is used for the narrow transcription of the phonology

What would the difference be

[grim mural]

yes, the German and Esperanto versions of pu use Gentium Plus, at least

[mighty seal]

it's a useful free font that supports a lot of unicode special diacritics etc

[golden rock]

thoughts?

alternatively

[upbeat summit]

Is Miraheze down?

nvm ona li lon

[grim mural]

Is there a way to make templates not care about initial capital letters while keeping the distinction in main articles?

In other wikis I'm used to ignoring case, and now it's a bit inconvenient having to remember that some templates need a capital letter to work.

I frequently use {{indent| ... }} or {{example| ... }} before noticing in a preview that I have to correct to {{Indent| ... }} or {{Example| ... }}

We could set up redirects for all the common templates, but I thought I'd ask for another solution before I start doing that.

[upbeat summit]

As far as i know, redirects would be the only way of handling it

unless there's some weird config thing you can do to only have first-letter case sensitivity in certain namespaces

[grim mural]

Okay, I've set up redirects for a bunch of templates

[upbeat summit]

Are we citing any images uploaded to Discord by linking them directly instead of reuploading them

https://this.alicorn.gay/post/729670550209937408

because this suggests that will stop working soon

Apparently we do quite a bit https://sona.pona.la/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&search=cdn.discordapp.com

Do you think it's reasonable to reupload those files to the wiki on the basis that they'll just stop being accessible otherwise

[winter sparrow]

uploading is better practice

[upbeat summit]

We'll probably want to work fast, just in case

[grand marten]

a mi lukin e sona ni · taso mi sona ala e ni → ni li ike tawa lipu [Sonpon]

[upbeat summit]

What licensing should be used

[winter sparrow]

Ahh

Technically you can't

[hot trout]

"ask", probably?

[winter sparrow]

The user who created the image has the copyright unless it's a derived work in which case it's the person who made the original thing

So you can't just pick a license because only the copyright holder can do that

[upbeat summit]

so leave the field blank?

[winter sparrow]

Technically we shouldn't upload it at all

I don't have a personal stance on it, I don't know how much the site wants to be strict on licenses

[upbeat summit]

well otherwise the images will pretty much be lost

and some whole documents too

I guess we could also try archiving them on Wayback Machine and updating the links to point there

[winter sparrow]

You could upload it anyway

I don't think it's morally wrong

[upbeat summit]

I might try both options

If anyone wants to help, here is a JavaScript bookmarklet that, when clicked, will try to archive the page you're currently viewing

javascript:void(location.href='https://web.archive.org/save/'+location.href);

(i wrote this without any formal JS knowledge so tell me if it can be improved also)

[upbeat summit]

Okay, all that's left is https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Comics

but that has 151 links to archive

which has to be more than the rest combined

Is it possible to automate iterating through these

just needs to open each webpage (with a delay so it doesn't throttle you) and then you gotta check whether it worked

and afterwards, i or someone else can prepend all the links in the article with web.archive.org/web

i would think, like, 30 seconds would suffice for the delay

that'd take a bit over an hour to run

hrmmmm

I wonder if i can Python this

[upbeat summit]

I can't get the webbrowser module to work

Guess it's time to convert them to links in Word and click them all manually 🙃

[upbeat summit]

I Think I Got Through Everything

Never let it be said that i haven't done anything for this community,,,,

[grim mural]

wawa a

[grim mural]

No, the person who made the derived work also has copyright over the changes and additions they made. So then you need permission from both the original person and the one who did the derived work.

[grim mural]

Ì guess that even after this change is implemented, you could get one of those temporary links and archive the file through that

Which isn't super useful in many cases, but it's a possibility

Especially if you want to later prove that a particular file was available at the specific date when you archived it, or if you can't be bothered to host the file yourself

(or if you want to try circumvent copyright issues through that)

[upbeat summit]

This would mainly be useful for adding new files though. I wouldn't know where to find the files that were already linked

[hot trout]

🤦 I did that yesterday morning

[upbeat summit]

oh? the archival?

the links hadn't been updated yet so i didn't realize

i could swear some of them said there'd only been 1 capture (ergo mine)

Well, good to have multiple passes just in case, right

[hot trout]

yeah!

[upbeat summit]

I think there should be an article for the way of speech where you contract mi toki e toki pona to mi toki pona, or ona li musi e musi Manka to ona li musi Manka, but i can't think of a name to actually create the article under

It's a form of redundancy imo, but i also use "redundancy" in the positive engineering sense to describe the Ithkuil fallacy, so i feel it would be biased as a pagename

Also, what are the extents of this style, are there any words for which it doesn't work

[grand marten]

mi la ni li ken lon lipu [Content word] · "nimi pali en nimi sijelo li ante ala · nimi ale li ken lon open pi sitelen e ← ni la ni ↑" · taso mi sona wawa ala

[upbeat summit]

I wouldn't think to look for it under there 😔

Oh, separately, is "Notes on lipu pu" licensable so we can transcribe it into an article instead of linking to the PDF everywhere

[upbeat summit]

…maybe i get to name it

the The Kulupu Menasewi Shortening-A-Sentence-Where-The-Predicate-Is-The-Same-As-The-Headnoun-Of-The-Direct-Object Thingy That You Can Do In Toki Pona With Like Toki And Musi And Probably Some Of The Other Words As Well Phenomenon Like You Shorten Toki E Toki Pona To Just Toki Pona It's Pretty Cool Because I Like Shortening Phrasings And Having Them Not Be Needlessly Long Phrasings Because That Would Be Kinda Pretty Bad And Un-Pona To Do That So Please Don't Effect

there's a pagename length limit?? smh

li x e x would probably work right

[split grail]

is there a way to get authorised and not have to go thru moderation everytime?

[golden rock]

@grand marten knows probs

[grand marten]

mi ken e ante wan sina la ilo li ken e ante ale kama sina

[split grail]

mi sona ala e ni

[grand marten]

a taso · ilo li wawa ala e sina · seme a

mi alasa pona e ni

[split grail]

what does this mean

[grand marten]

"if i approve one of your changes, the computer will approve all your future ones"

[split grail]

ahh

[grand marten]

"oh but · it didn't give you the permissions · wtfluff"
"i'll try to fix it"

[split grail]

oh alright

thank you

pona

mi wawa

I want to move this page from 'sitelen pona literature' to 'Literature in sitelen pona' but it throttles my actions saying I tried too much

[split grail]

okay I think that it's all redirects

same for Template:wp → Template:w

[split grail]

reposting this from jan Talija (@\nehemiagurl)
please archive things to the IA

[mighty seal]

does this mean we need to get a coder to write a script to backup all the discord-hosted files and host them elsewhere and update all the links in the wiki?

[split grail]

that is, a good question

for now, because I edit a lot of the references, I will do what I can there

[hot trout]

For now, we've added links to the Wayback Machine

[split grail]

as well as this, can the abbreviated template names be moved to the templates with full names (of course with redirects)

[split grail]

important question: https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Talk:en

[winter sparrow]

no way

the learning resources page is supposed to be for good stuff

even jan Pije pulled his own lessons of his own site because he didn't consider them useful for people

[hot trout]

The question is not about the Pije stuff

[winter sparrow]

oh

[hot trout]

Click on it, there's another one a bit down

[winter sparrow]

in that case idk

[split grail]

when marking examples, which is better for you
underlines or yellow marking

[split grail]

is this the person who coined tonsi
edit: yeah
#sona-musi message

[split grail]

who first designed the glyph

I only found the original poll (Reddit post)

[golden rock]

I saw a more complicated (closer to the actual trans sign) version proposed, remembered it, then couldn't find it again, and redrew what I thought looked best

so technically not me but practically mostly me

so the contributions, imo are:

• someone on ma pona, for drawing a more detailed trans sign
• me, for seeing it then forgetting and changing theirs to a simpler version
• me, for making it a poll
• 49 people, for making their preference seen
• jan Same, for immediately adding it to linja pona, the widely accepted font at the time

[split grail]

alright

source

[upbeat summit]

Minor thing with the references, i feel like pu and ku don't need formal citations given you're already linking to their articles which have a ton more information? and they would have to be cited on like Every Page

[split grail]

can we just have like a template

{{cite-ku|page= }}

it would be cool

[hot trout]

we could

[split grail]

there's a lot of templates that we should have

[hot trout]

then let's start with this one - what would this one look like=

[golden rock]

I can't do any better than "take the time I posted the tonsi poll, look up every image posted on ma pona in the ~3 months prior to that"

[split grail]

that's good enough

[split grail]

this one is actually easy
just a normal reference

Lang, Sonja (2017). Toki Pona Dictionary. Illustrated by idk who. Tawhid.
then if a page numbers gets passed it adds 'p. X'

for pu, same thing but also adding a language setting (lang=en, fr, de, eo)

[grand marten]

↑ ni li kepeken nasin pi ma [Wikipedia]

a wawa · lipu sina li lon

[split grail]

lon

jan Ke Tami li suli

can the notes on lipu pu get an article copied verbatim

maybe it has a place on Wikisource

[split grail]

I found your first message on it
#toki-ale message

there you were talking to a deleted user, and didn't mention where the glyph came from before

sina mama tonsi

I will assume

[golden rock]

@split grail https://discordapp.com/channels/301377942062366741/301377942062366741/708990800658300948

this is what past me had to say on the matter

and then i did this https://discordapp.com/channels/301377942062366741/301377942062366741/708992721536417812

[split grail]

I saw

mama tonsi a

almost

[hot trout]

like this? https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Template:cite-ku

[upbeat summit]

Why hyphen instead of space, i think Wikipedia has {{cite␣book}}

[split grail]

and you're right, oops
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cite_book

[split grail]

sina pona

[hot trout]

a, I'll move it

[split grail]

from what I see also, it seems like that Wikipedia does

<ref>{{cite book|...}}</ref>

[upbeat summit]

hmm… why

[split grail]

maybe because of group=""

[upbeat summit]

those could just be extra params

[hot trout]

they could
but we also don't have to do it like Wikipedia

[upbeat summit]

something about the parameters seems to break if you wrap it in <ref /> tags

[split grail]

should there be links on the references

[split grail]

this
https://wikisource.org/wiki/Category:Toki_pona

[hot trout]

Which is why I used {{#tag:

[upbeat summit]

Did not know that was a thing

[hot trout]

Me neither until I was confused for an entire day why it wouldn't work

[split grail]

seme li pona tawa sina

[winter sparrow]

oof, I don't like underlines for sp. Color marking is good, but that specific yellow+black is very aggressive and kind of hurts my eyes

also it's odd, it looks like the "toki pona" combo glyph has the "pona" in grey instead of the same color as toki? Makes it super hard to see

[grand marten]

a ona li walo · sitelen wawa li pimeja tan ni → monsi jelo li sama walo · taso toki taso li wawa lon ni la pona li awen walo la ike

[winter sparrow]

ike

[split grail]

it is mostly also my dark theme plugin
not to say that there isn't any good colours to use
Wiktionary passes the test

[upbeat summit]

This scared me until i realized you weren't using the built-in dark mode from the account dropdown menu
I struggled so much to get the glyph images to invert to white-on-black in dark mode and was like aaaa why isn't it working

[upbeat summit]

We can change this with

mark {
  background: /*Any colo(u)r*/;
}

simplez

[grand marten]

a ijo pi mute lili a li toki e wile · ni la ni o tawa #sona-kulupu-tpt anu seme

[safe stag]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Communities
ni o ante tan ni: ma lili li awen lon
@grand marten

[upbeat summit]

[grand marten]

a mi weka e

taso ona li awen lon lipu pi tenpo pini tan nasin ilo · mi ken weka e lipu ni tan lukin lon wile

[split grail]

can we have a [citation needed] template
right now I'm doing this

@golden rock do I refer to you as 'jan Asi' or 'kala Asi' on sona pona (also what are your pronouns)

[golden rock]

kala

jan Asi is technically valid it just looks weird after 4 years of being kala

she or they is fine i don't particularly mind

[split grail]

okie dokie thank you

[grand marten]

wile la o pali · taso n · wile pi lipu tan li suli seme · mi la suli mute ala tan ni → tenpo la lipu ante li lon ala a

[split grail]

I just want to know who says this

even just like, a Discord message is good enough

[split grail]

mi ni

[split grail]

does anyone use the main 'where is toki pona used?' article
it certainly qualifies for too big to read comfortably
should it instead link to multiple articles on separate pages

[golden rock]

i feel like the reason its this way is because it first existed on smaller wikis that didn't try for this

so basically it was a one-page-resource

same with "History of Toki Pona

and it was surrounded mostly by content that wasn't like this (i.e. tp translations of english wiki articles)

but now, yeah

turning it into a good, wiki style article (/ category of articles), seems like a good idea

[split grail]

thank you very much

I think I'm first going to link on the main articles and then go thru and move everything

I don't know if the page is very much needed when it all gets moved, after that it basically does the same job as the {{Works}} template

almost...

I want an even bigger template for everything
academia, art, media, communities, gatherings, language things, writing systems

maybe navboxes inside of navboxes

[split grail]

is there a way to replace the sitelen pona font in my view

[grand marten]

o tawa lipu nasin pi sina taso o lon ona e ni ↓

@font-face {
  font-family: "mu";
  src: url("https://mu.mu/mu.ttf") format("ttf");
}

.sitelen-pona, .sitelen-pona-static {
  font-family: "mu", sans-serif;
}

(nasin sitelen pi wile sina li lon ilo sina la sina ken lon ala e toki nanpa wan)

[split grail]

sina pona

[grand marten]

nimi pi toki [pona] li kama suli li lon toki [English] la ona o lon ala lon poki [tok]

[grand marten]

mi lon e nanpa

[grand marten]

kama la mi wile lipu e ni → poka ← en poka → la nimi li lon ala tan seme · taso lipu o toki e nimi sewi anpa sinpin monsi kin anu nimi ante pi [pona] ala kin anu seme

[hot trout]

sona
lipu ma la sewi en anpa li sewi ala li anpa ala li poka pi nasin sona nasa namako

[upbeat summit]

on it

[upbeat summit]

ilo li wile kalama e ona sama toki pona, sama ala toki Inli, la, mi pana lon {{tok}} e ona

[grand marten]

a

[upbeat summit]

ilo li kalama pona ala e toki pona. taso, tenpo kama la, ona o ni la, mi o ken ni e ona

ni li nasin pona ala pona

[grand marten]

taso mi lukin mute e ni → nimi Toki Pona li lon ala poki

[grand marten]

pon a

ilo o ken · taso e nasin

[upbeat summit]

ni li lonnnn

tasoooo

Toki Pona li nimi Inli kin

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Toki_Pona#English

kin, ilo li kalama Inli /ˈtowkij ˈpownə/ e ona la, ike li lon ala

sina toki e nimi "toki pona" lon toki pona la o poki

[split grail]

for some word articles there are sections for sitelen pona and sitelen sitelen, should there be one for luka pona as well or not

[winter sparrow]

for me it doesn't feel like a priority but I don't think it makes anything worse

[split grail]

how should people be refered in the wiki

option 1: for people with public real names, use that name
Lang and Knight wrote that...
(people with real names not public stay the same)

option 2: always use the toki pona name
jan Sonja and jan Pije wrote that ...

[split grail]

I removed the hatnote saying that there was copyrighted content because after editing, I don't think if there is anything noteworthy anymore
is it the example sentences? that can't be
is it the quotes? it isn't copyrighted by ma pona users (it's only Sonja's words)
the grammar descriptions? changed.............. enough i think
https://sona.pona.la/wiki/en

[grand marten]

nanpa wan la

• lipu ante li tawa ala jan [pona] taso li wile ala kepeken nimi pi toki [pona] · ni la mi ni kin la ona li ken kepeken toki mi kepeken pali lili
• jan pi kulupu [pona] ala nimi pi toki [English] li nimi """lon""" li pana e pilin ni → toki ni li tan ijo pi sona wawa
  nanpa tu la
• lipu mute li kepeken nimi nasin pi toki [pona] lon toki [English] la toki [pona] ante li ken
• jan mute mute a pi toki [pona] li kepeken nimi [pona] taso · jan [Kekan San] li pana e nimi lawa ona pi toki [Inli] · taso jan mute mute li kepeken nimi [Kekan San] anu nimi [gregdan3] li kepeken ala nimi ni

[split grail]

nimi nasin?

jan mute mute a pi toki [pona] li kepeken nimi [pona] taso · jan [Kekan San] li pana e nimi lawa ona pi toki [Inli] · taso jan mute mute li kepeken nimi [Kekan San] anu nimi [gregdan3] li kepeken ala nimi ni
nnn ni li lon

[grand marten]

lipu mute li toki e "personal nasin"

[split grail]

I feel like this is a balance between a more academic style, also books, where people are refered to by their last name and between toki pona culture, where we use toki pona names

[grand marten]

o kepeken nimi kulupu pi toki [pona] a · "jan and jan wrote that..."

[split grail]

jfdslkfs

pona

mi ni

for citations tho, it's better like

Lang, Sonja (2021)
but
jan Ke Tami (2021)

[grand marten]

taso jan [Ke Tami] li pana a e nimi pi toki ona · taso sina sona ala · ijo mi nanpa pini li wawa sin :p

[split grail]

aa

[grand marten]

kin tu ni li nasa tawa mi → "Lang and jan Ke Tami"

[split grail]

I just remembered they published a book

does this work

Samys, Ret (jan Ke Tami) (whatever year)

[grand marten]

a taso ni kin li nasa → "Zamenhof and jan Sonja" · ken la li :mat::ters:

[split grail]

li :mat::ters: mute

[grand marten]

Sonja "jan Sonja" Lang

mi sona ala

[grand marten]

nasin ni li pona tawa mi li lon lipu [s.p.l]

· ma lipu pi toki [.lojban.] li nasa li kepeken nasin tu · https://mw.lojban.org/papri/How_to_use_xorlo ·
· jan [.xorxes.] li pana a e nimi lawa · taso ona li lon ala lipu · ni li tan wile ona anu seme ·
· a taso! · nimi ona li suli sama ala toki [.lojban.] · sama "Toki Pona" · ni la ona li nimi ona pi toki [English] lon ma ilo anu seme · ni la nasin ni li sama "Lang and Th3Scribble" ·

[grand marten]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Left_and_right

[zinc hazel]

opén poka li the left

pini poka li the right

[hot trout]

poka open and poka pini?

[zinc hazel]

wait a sacend

okeii it stillxworks

[split grail]

poki li pakala

[split grail]

mi lon e ni
https://sona.pona.la/wiki/kili

this is basically the layout that I'm going for the content word articles

{{nimi
| PoS = content word
}}
'''{{tp|NIMI}}''' is {{a category}} [[content word]] relating to ...

==Etymology==
The word {{tp|NIMI}} is derived from ... <ref>{{cite etym}}</ref>

==Semantic space==
The [[semantic space]] of {{tp|NIMI}} includes ...

==={{tp|pu}}===
In the "[[Dictionary (pu)|Official Toki Pona Dictionary]]" section, the book {{pu|en}} defines {{tp|NIMI}} as:

{{pu def|NIMI}}

=={{tp|sitelen pona}}==
The {{tp|[[sitelen pona]]}} glyph for {{tp|NIMI}} represents/is derived from ...

==References==
<references/>
{{Words}}

[grand marten]

a ni li tan mi · mi pona e ni · (mi wile e ni → poki li ken lili · ijo li ken suli sin e ona lon wile taso · taso ni la ale ona a li kama lon lukin · sitelen li lon ala la poki sitelen li awen lon li weka tan lukin taso · ijo li suli e poki la ona li kama sin · ni la mi ni → poki li weka tan lon a · taso mi ni pi pakala lili tan nasa ilo · tenpo ni la mi pona e)

[upbeat summit]

A concern i have (as someone who barely knows anything) is that the words might not always map onto each other very well, so it might give a false impression of how LP works or how words are used, and it might be more of an issue that alternate signs are left out compared to alternate SP glyphs. But again i would need someone who knows what they're talking about to weigh in on whether these are actual issues

[grand marten]

la o toki e ante anu seme

[upbeat summit]

Wait i misread

sections

not on the infobox

but i have been wondering about that as well

[split grail]

dkdhdj

[split grail]

mama pi luka pona @royal grove o sina pilin seme tawa ni

[royal grove]

mi sona ala a

[grand marten]

nimi#luka pona anu
nimi/luka pona anu
luka pona:nimi anu
luka.pona.la/wiki/nimi

[grand marten]

mi o pali e ilo pi poki pu sina · ni la toki nimi pu ale li ken lon lipu wan · ilo li pana tan ona

[grand marten]

n · lipu li lon · taso seme la mi ken pona e ona tawa ilo

a kin poki laso li lon ona · mi wile ala e ona · nnnnnn

[grand marten]

open la mi wile pana e poki ilo lon lipu ni ↑ la ilo li ken kama jo e toki tan poki · taso poki li suli li ike tawa ante lipu · kin alasa poki li ken pali suli tawa ilo · ni la mi wile pali e lipu pi ilo taso sama ilo {{usage 2023}}

[grand marten]

mi ni · @split grail o sona e lon pi ilo {{pu def|nimi}}

[hot trout]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/mi_li_and_sina_li seme li ken pona e lipu ni

[grand marten]

· li pilin e ni → toki lili taso li lon lipu · wile pi jan [Ke] la toki mute o lon · mi la ijo ni li lili la toki li ken ala mute anu sem-- · li lukin e lipu · · · a · wawa ·

[split grail]

I was thinking of nimi#luka pona

I don't know if there's like, enough people to encourage a whole luka.pona.la

sadly

[split grail]

why was the article on animacy deleted

[grand marten]

lipu tenpo la tenpo ale la ona li lon ala

[split grail]

oh

[grand marten]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/luka

[grand marten]

ike la poki anpa li lon ala selo pi ilo lili · selo li weka e ona · mi ken ala pini e ni lon ilo [mi: la: kese:] · ken la mi toki tawa lawa ma la ona li ken e ni · ken ante la mi ante e nimi .navbox la selo li sona ala e ona li weka ala e ona

[hot trout]

a
__FORCETOC__ li ken ala anu seme

[grand marten]

ni li poki sewi

[grand marten]

a ma [Wikipedia] li kepeken laso pona [#008560] lon toki pi jan ante · mi ken ni lon toki [pona] anu seme

[split grail]

o pana e nasin lipu

[grand marten]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:WeatherWriter/LLM_Experiment_1

[split grail]

when mentioning the bot answers from #sona-kulupu-tpt, is it

... excluding automatic answers
... excluding automated answers

[grand marten]

mi la ni tu li ike · ilo li pana e wile ala e sitelen taso · ken la o toki ala · ken la o toki lon lipu o linja e lipu e nimi #sona-kulupu

[split grail]

I only add that to explain why all the votes are -1, the bot adds the reactions and then I have to remove the reactions from the bot to get only the human votes

[grand marten]

mi sona

[split grail]

ken la mi sona ala e toki sina

[grand marten]

"the bot doesn't answer, it just reacts"

ilo li ken ala pilin

taso suli la toki sina la mi kama pilin e ni → ilo ike mute li pana e sitelen

[split grail]

nnn

ni li lon a

[grand marten]

poka la · ilo pi ma [Discord] o lon · {{cite discord}} · {{cite ma pona}} · {{cite sona kulupu}}

[split grail]

lon

[grand marten]

sina sona ala sona pali ilo

[split grail]

mi weka e toki ni

[split grail]

sona lili

[grand marten]

pona la sona lili taso li wile

{{{1}}} li pana e ijo nanpa wan · {{{1|mu}}} li ni li mu lon ni → ijo li lon ala · {{{nimi}}} la ijo nanpa nimi · {{#if:{{{1|}}}|{{{1}}} li pona|seme a}} li toki e pona lon ni taso → ijo nanpa wan li lon · (ona li lon ala la {{{1|}}} li pana e ala tan ni → ala li lon pini linja · ilo #if: li pana e ijo nanpa wan lon lon ijo e ijo nanpa tu lon lon ala)

[split grail]

ni li sona mi

[grand marten]

pona · ni la sina ken

a taso poki li · n

[split grail]

li . n

[grand marten]

mi sona ala e nasin pi pona wawa · ma [Wikipedia] la ijo li wile e poki pi suli ale la ona li kepeken toki [Lua]

a taso ken la

o pali e poki lon ala ilo o pana a e ona tawa ilo

anu o pana ala a

{{cite sona kulupu
|https://nasin
|i Kita
}}
{|
[poki]
|}

n · taso ijo li wile suwi lukin e poki ale pi tomo [sona kulupu] la seme

ilo li a

[split grail]

{{cite sona kulupu
| name=
| username=
| date=
| url=
| quote=
| data-retrieval-date=
| option1=
| votes1=
| option2=
| votes2=
| option3=
| votes3=
| option4=
| votes4=
...
|}}

ni li pona ala pona

[grand marten]

ken

[split grail]

re: #sona-kulupu-tpt I am strongly against colours for words, especially links
I base it on mainspace articles on Wikipedia, colours in text are only used in hyperlink colourring of course and on help and MOS pages for demonstrating errors

the colours don't add any new information anyway

[golden rock]

agreed, breaking with wikipedia practice is usually not a good sign

[hot trout]

It also looks weird

[grand marten]

a ni ale li lon

[split grail]

can someone find an example that could showcase the word better
I added this just because I think it'd be cool, becaues I've seen memes of it, yes it's the Kekan San one hehe

[grand marten]

poki {{sp}} o weka e sitelen pi pini toki anu seme · (.?!) · seme li wile li wile ala e ni

a taso . li lon poki nimi la ona o weka ala

[hot trout]

ona li lon pini kin la ona pini ni o weka

[grand marten]

ni sina li ken kama lon nasin ni → o ne sina e sike lili ale · o weka e ne pini

taso ni mi la mi sona ala · ni li ken lon nasin ilo [Lua] taso anu seme

[grand marten]

n

pilin mi la mi ante e nasin lon tenpo pini · taso lon la ala

nasin o seme · nasin [Nishiki-teki] li pona tawa mi

[grand marten]

a

la sitelen [seli kiwen] anu sem

[split grail]

seli kiwen

ona li pona mute

o ante tawa ona a

[split grail]

nimi ? en nimi ! o kama nimi .
anu la ale o weka

wile mi li weka ala

[split grail]

mi wile pona e lipu ni. taso, ona li suli mute mute a
wish me luck 🫠

[grand marten]

moli

[upbeat summit]

sina ken la o awen

[split grail]

mi pini

ante mute li lon. taso..

[split grail]

mi pini e nimi ma taso a

[grand marten]

pali mi pi suno ni li https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Template:cite_Discord

[split grail]

ni li pona

note: there's also another message type: 'reply to {{{reply-url}}}
and can you give an example of how a thread would be formatted

[grand marten]

toki li lon anpa pi toki ante la sina wile pana e linja pi toki sewi tan seme

tomo lili la tenpo lon la Message posted in the #sona.pona.la thread in the ma pona...

[split grail]

I mean, the code that generates it

[grand marten]

seme

[split grail]

nanpa/nimi seme li kama poki ni

[grand marten]

{{{message type|Message}}} posted in the <code>#{{{channel}}}</code> {{{channel type|channel}}}...

[split grail]

mi toki ike a

*poki seme li kama nimi ni

{{cite Discord
| server = {{tp|ma pona pi toki pona}}
| channel = toki-suli
| channel-type = thread?
| ???
}}

seme li kama ni: Message posted in the #1078420779231875203 thread on the #1020033302595391488 channel in the ma pona pi toki pona Discord server

[grand marten]

a · poki li toki ala e tomo suli lon tenpo ni

mi ken ante e ni lon wile

[split grail]

aaa

wile a

[grand marten]

mi lon e ni

poka la · sina la toki li on tomo li in ala ona tan seme

[split grail]

ona tu li pona, o in I think

[split grail]

kin la sina ken ante e ni: linja linluwi li poki e ni

[Message posted ... in the Discord server]
(brackets included)

this is it currently, but I want it all hyperlinked

[split grail]

(brackets included)
sometimes I forget to include the brackets, but this is why it's important to have templates, you can just change little details easily

[hot trout]

mi wile e ilo ni
(ilo li lon ala. mi pali e sitelen taso)

[split grail]

omg

ni li pona

it still needs some input ofc to change the name but that would be perfect

[hot trout]

lon a

[grand marten]

mi ni ala tan ni → ale li linja la mi ken ala linja e nimi ma

taso wile la o suli e ona · ni li pona seme tawa sina → [toki lon tomo #tomo] lon ma [kama sona]

[split grail]

nimi ma?

ahh

[split grail]

nnn

mi sona ala. this is a good enough comporise

[grand marten]

n · ni li ken ala ken → nimi tomo o linja · ken la toki li lon ma [pali] lon tomo #wikipesija la ni o linja

[split grail]

my reasoning is like
if you have to cite the title of a paper, you link the entire title, if there's an unfamiliar thing in the title you don't just link to a page explaining that think

[grand marten]

taso ni li nimi ala

n · [visually i resemble a deer]. #pana-sona. ma pona pi toki pona. Discord.

[split grail]

ni li nasa

when citing things that aren't books, journals, etc. (such as radio broadcasts or maps or messages or more actually) you include a description of what the thing is

[grand marten]

lipu [Wikipedia] la toki lili pi ma waso la toki o linja

[split grail]

nnn

problem is

Discord messages can get very long

[grand marten]

la o pana e ale ona ala e ijo suli ona taso · ante la o pana ala lon iko la linja li kama [Message] o pana lon poka

[split grail]

iko

[grand marten]

ilo a

"iscord"

"hisscord" 🐍

[upbeat summit]

good synonym for "snake" indeed, beats "dangernoodle" at the very least

[grand marten]

@split grail o sona e ni → ilo li wile ala e tenpo · ona li ken sona e ona tan linja tan ni → ilo li nanpa e toki kepeken tenpo kepeken nasin [Snowflake]

[split grail]

does this just mean that a date isn't necessary to pass?

very neat

[grand marten]

ma [Wikipedia] li ni kin lon toki pi ma waso

[split grail]

wawa

[grand marten]

poka la · nasin toki mi pi ilo ni li ike tawa sina la o pali e nasin wile la mi ilo e ona

[upbeat summit]

If there are no objections i'm gonna finally move toki pona to Toki Pona

since the wiki is in English, that's its only proper English name, and toki pona can refer to, and be referred to by, other things

and i don't remember any major objections from when i've brought this up before

[split grail]

I wasn't here when you did that, but completely agree

[grand marten]

a mi sona ala e ni → ona li ni li ni ala

[upbeat summit]

Did you know that you can set wikis as additional search engines for the address bar

Should we note this somewhere on the wiki itself

I find it really convenient to just press ⌘L and type sp query to find an article

also should the quote parameter of {{cite Discord}} use <blockquote />

[hot trout]

would be odd for references

[split grail]

not always

but like

on Wikipedia, the quote= parameter, when it exceeds a certain character limit or something, it changes from a simple "quote betwen quotation marks" to a blockquote

[upbeat summit]

If that is what trips it, we can use https://mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ParserFunctions/String_functions##len and https://mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions##ifexpr

{{#ifexpr:{{#len:{{{quote|}}}}} >= <!--threshold-->
|<blockquote>{{{quote|}}}</blockquote>
|{{{quote|}}}
}}

i think

[split grail]

ig

[grand marten]

nasin ni li pona tawa mi ↓

toki li lili la

jan. "mu mu mu". #tomo. ma. ilo Siko.

toki li suli la

jan. toki. #tomo. ma. ilo Siko.

mu mu mu mu mu mu mu mu mu mu mu mu mu mu mu mu

a pona namako la
ma, #tomo.

[upbeat summit]

I'm not sure about referring to usage categories like "…is a core content word…" in the lead section of word articles

since that can change over time

and if anything it's shorthand for "core according to Linku survey respondents and methodology in a particular year"

Where it's mentioned in compact form in templates and such, i try to link to the Linku article to be clear that's what it's referring to

[upbeat summit]

I touched up the main page a bit

I think it would benefit from a sidebar listing some good articles to start with

[[Toki Pona]] and [[Particles]] seem good

and [[Learning resources]]

I would also add [[Frequently asked questions]] and maybe a few of the articles linked from there

and then [[Project:lipu pona]] at the bottom of the list

I'm not so sure about [[Writing systems]], [[Bibliography]], or [[anu]]

the latter of which is a particle, so that's kind of redundant

and it doesn't seem like one that people struggle the most with by far

[golden rock]

core could be a link to the article explaining the categories

in which case imo its not a bad way to start the article

[upbeat summit]

yeah but then we have to update it manually every time there are changes

…unless we can template it within the prose too

hmmmm

[golden rock]

which is no more than once a year

[upbeat summit]

Okay how does this look

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Main_Page

[upbeat summit]

@grand marten en @hot trout o · sina lon la, o pana e pilin sina tan lipu sinpin sin

[grand marten]

mi lukin · mute la ona li pona tawa mi · taso ilo luka la

[hot trout]

Learning resources on top, I'd have said

[upbeat summit]

hmmmm

I think that could be fixed with media queries

but i don't have any practice with those

"make it width:100%; (and margin-bottom:1.5em;) if it's already more than half as wide as the screen", or thereabouts, right

[grand marten]

mi la kon o lon anpa lon tenpo ale

[split grail]

this is good I think

when it changes, just change the article

2022
kipisi is a widespread content word ...
then
2023
kipisi is a common content word ...

[grand marten]

nasin ante https://civwiki.org/wiki/Template:Cite_Discord_message

li pona tawa mi
li pona ala pona tawa ma

[grand marten]

ilo a li ken ante e lipu · kipisi is {{a category}} content word

[split grail]

pona a

[grand marten]

a taso ni la mi o pali e {{usage}} pi tenpo lukin e {{usage cat}} pi tenpo lukin

[upbeat summit]

ante la for the luka pona wordlist

I still think the SignWriting images should be in individual rows corresponding to the description cells

[split grail]

btw, idk where to put this but there should a page for articles like 'And' and 'With' idk how

[split grail]

this yes

[upbeat summit]

instead of being rowspanned across all descriptions for different signs for the same word

This would also create space to separate the English and Toki Pona descriptions

[split grail]

jan Ke Tami was the one to first add the Sign Writing images to Commons

first go bother him to update the images

[upbeat summit]

Is there a problem with the images?

I'm just talking layout

[split grail]

they're a bit outdated

and there's some missing

[upbeat summit]

a

[split grail]

I think that would have to be done first before that sjfslkdf

[upbeat summit]

Would it be that bad to rearrange the tables beforehand

[split grail]

nope go for it

at least it's work done

[upbeat summit]

well i'll probably have to defer to your judgment because i'm not familiar enough with SignWriting to feel confident doing it

also it's a big table

[split grail]

suli a

[upbeat summit]

tables are probably my least favorite part of wikitext

why do they have to be such a convenient data presentation method…

[split grail]

tables are so handy but so hard to code

[upbeat summit]

this one is particularly handy

🏃🍅

tables for nasin sitelen are easier to get write

(no they aren't because UCSUR is purgatory)

[grand marten]

a lipu wile sona pi jan mute li pona mute a tawa mi

[split grail]

gjsfkljsdf

[grand marten]

{{usage cat}} li soweli la mi kin li soweli

taso ona li wile e nanpa e nimi ala tan seme

[split grail]

bringing this back for a second
I feel like these are connected, but mi sona ala e nimi

[hot trout]

you know
I completely forgot about this
and will again...

-remindme 30h signwriting

[split grail]

jgksdlfjsdf

it happens 🫠

it do be like that 🫠

[split grail]

sona-pona-unrelated but wiki-related, now that Toki Pona has an ISO code, we can do stuff like this
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/TimedText:Apollo_15_feather_and_hammer_drop.ogv.tok.srt

[split grail]

can someone upload the logo for lipu kule on Commons if possible

[grand marten]

a ona suli li lon ala lipu

li lon ma pali taso

@median schooner o · sina pana ala pana e sitelen sinpin pi lipu [kule] kepeken nasin [CC BY-SA 4.0] · (ala la ale li pona · mi ken pana lon ma [sona pona] taso lon wile)

[random sable]

@storm garnet

[median schooner]

o kepeken

[grand marten]

(ni nanpa wan anu seme)

[split grail]

I am trying to find the image of omepako too but I cannae

[grand marten]

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lipu_kule_logo.png

[split grail]

wawa

[grand marten]

ona li lon tomo pi musi [Manka] tan,,, ijo

#musi-manka message

[split grail]

ah

I will DM jan Maliku for this

[grand marten]

jan [Sonja] kin li lawa e sitelen tan ni → ona li sitelen e toki · anu seme

[split grail]

.....................................................msa

aaa open access is so good until you yourself have to go around asking people to release their things under this licence and idk how to ask it well and it's just like

[grand marten]

:lon_a:

[split grail]

can you move it to File:Logo of lipu kule.png

[grand marten]

mi ken ala tawa · taso mi ken wile · sina wile ala wile e ni → mi ni e tan pi wile sina → jan pana li wile

a taso lukin la · poki pi tan sina li lili · sitelen ale ona li kama lon ona lon tenpo poka · ni la jan pali li tawa e ona kepeken tenpo lili · ni la sitelen ni kin li tawa lon tenpo poka

[median schooner]

sina kepeken ni tawa seme?

[split grail]

for sona.pona.la

and Wikisource too possibly

[upbeat summit]

English word translations

[split grail]

sure

[split grail]

should there be more sitelen pona glyphs in Commons, especially the ones ku lili or no book (if anything, it can stay locally in sona pona, see eliki)

[grand marten]

a poka la · mi o ante e nasin sitelen tan ni → linja [lipamanka] la nimi sin mute li lon ala · nasin o seme

[split grail]

nasin seli kiwen li pona tawa mi

ona li suwi lukin

li jo e nimi mute mute

talking about fonts btw

there's a little issue I found while messing with the fonts,
zz isn't in Fairfax, so it shows up as a literal string

[hot trout]

hmmm yeah
I don't think there's a way to reach U+3000 through a ligature

[grand marten]

a ni su wile

musi la sitelen [seli kiwen] li weka e sitelen ?

[split grail]

e

nasa

characters like ? shouldn't be used in sitelen pona anyway

instead substituted by .

[upbeat summit]

We could make the templates use {{#replace:…|zz|　}}

but there needs to be at least one literal zz, on the sitelen pona article where it describes how certain fonts do that

[split grail]

surprised that there isn't yet a big 'Grammar of Toki Pona' article. for this wiki, I want it not to be like a learning resource but like a place to find everything, even the strange nasins
all this because today I learnt something you can do with predicative phrases: predicative prepositional phrases ✨ (timestamp [1:28])

mi wile mute a \ lon uta mi e kasi
"I really want in-my-mouth[-to-put] a plant"
And I envy the rose \ [t]hat you held in your teeth, love

[golden rock]

jan Lakuse has talked about them in detail in one of their sptp segments

don't remember which year

must have been 2021 most likely

[split grail]

oooh

will try to find

I Do Not Know How To Find It

[golden rock]

alright one sec

[split grail]

thank you

[golden rock]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywRsfMZjp8Q&list=PLjOmpMyMxd8Ru7RzbKS0ZZ1E_S2J_pA2X&index=35

@split grail

[split grail]

sina pona

[split grail]

may I also ask you something

here you also used 'luka' while talking about an ilo

[golden rock]

context?

[split grail]

ilo sina li luka e nena mi

[golden rock]

touches

[split grail]

yeah

[golden rock]

didn't really occur to me but i guess ilos don't have luka but eh the person being touched feels the same way imo

[split grail]

gjdkslfjs

makes sense

[grand marten]

ni li ken sitelen pi nimi ijo https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Everything_KeyArt.jpg

(musi ala la mi o wan e sitelen mute)

[split grail]

jfslkfs

mi wawa

[grand marten]

lon la ni li wawa mute ala li ni taso → sina ante e lipu la sitelen ! loje li lon ala ante sina li toki ala e ni → ijo o lukin e ona

taso sina wile e wawa la o toki

[split grail]

mi sona

mi lawa kin e lipu Wiki

[grand marten]

a!

ni li tan pi wawa pali sina anu seme

kulupu [Menasewi] kin li lawa e

[split grail]

lon a

lipu mi pi nasin Wiki li lon ni

ona li toki e ma pali ||conworld||

[split grail]

I am once again asking for your financial support someone to upload the CC sections of pu/ku to Commons

[hot trout]

hm, wait, does ku have such sections?

[split grail]

yeah

[hot trout]

pu's are already online (if you speak Esperanto)

[split grail]

https://tokipona.org/Sonja_Lang_-_Toki_Pona_Dictionary.pdf

[split grail]

parolo ne esperanton or whatever it is

[hot trout]

can't find anything about it having a different license to the rest of the book

Only this:

Pages 397 and 401 are copyright their respective writers.

[random sable]

Reminder for @hot trout

Reminder from YAGPDB

signwriting

[split grail]

sdjflsdf

[hot trout]

uggghhh

-remindme 23h signwriting

[split grail]

I can't find anything either so
hii @mighty seal sorry to bother you for this
what licence does this part of ku have

[hot trout]

© Sonja Lang 2021

Just like the rest of the book

Just because a sample got published for free, doesn't change the copyright

[split grail]

well then.

[mighty seal]

oh i made a post on mastodon

https://toki.social/@janSonja/107545545172322130

[split grail]

thank youuu

[split grail]

thank you very much jan Kita this is very funny to me without context

and with

[split grail]

there needs to be a way to adjust the text compared to the boxes, I've been placing hatnotes after the sideboxes but on mobile it's not right

sorry if this doesn't make sense but I think you all get it maybe

[upbeat summit]

sitelen ale kin

[upbeat summit]

I don't get what's going on in this image sorry

[grand marten]

ni li ken · taso toki li lon sewi la poki li kama anpa lili lon ilo suli

[upbeat summit]

I think hatnotes are supposed to go above the rest of the article or section though

[upbeat summit]

mi la ni o lon

[split grail]

I want for someone to remove this gap

...........somehow

with your, smart, coding, magic

[grand marten]

a lipu [Wikipedia] la kin

[upbeat summit]

I like the gap,,

[grand marten]

la pona

[upbeat summit]

It's like

"Before you even check the infobox or anything, know this:"

[split grail]

w

I didn't know that

request retracted

[split grail]

can someone make this work

→ [[w:fr:Nana (Niki de Saint Phalle)]]

[upbeat summit]

Try now

[split grail]

it works

very nice

[grand marten]

sina kepeken ilo ni tan seme a · tan ni taso li ken → sina wile pana e sitelen pi ma [Wikipedia] lon pini · taso ni li lon ala la wile li tan seme · (kin mi sona ni pi ilo ni ala · taso nasin li nasa)

[split grail]

sometimes I think I know how to write in English and then boom

(thank you everyone who catches my typos)

[split grail]

seme a

I want to link to the French Wikipedia, because there's no English article

[grand marten]

"why are you using this template · the only possible reason for it is → putting the wikipedia logo at the end · but that's not being done so why · (also i know how to do that {the logo thing} without a template · though the method is weird)"

[split grail]

ahh

it's just easier to do with a template

[grand marten]

seme a

[split grail]

without it, you also have to put the | character because otherwise the string w: will show up

[grand marten]

a ni

[split grail]

and so it's easier to delegate the task to a template

[grand marten]

taso ni li sitelen wan a

[grand marten]

li sitelen ala lon ni tan nimi lukin ante

[split grail]

you all already use the {{wp}} template, I just redirected it to conform to how other wikis (at least those under Wikimedia) do it

[grand marten]

n · ken la mi o pana e sitelen kule nimi ale lon lipu wan la ilo {{nimi}} li kama jo e ona tan lipu ni taso · ni la nimi li lon lipu tu la sitelen li sama · kin mi ken alasa e sitelen pi nimi ni → lipu ona li lon ala

[grand marten]

ni su wile https://mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Cargo

[upbeat summit]

Extension:tomootawa

having trouble understanding what it dœs

[grand marten]

a mi lukin la ni li jasima pi wile mi · mi wile pana e sona pi nimi mute tan lipu wan tawa lipu nimi mute · ilo ni la sona li lon lipu mute li ken tawa lipu wan

[random sable]

Reminder for @hot trout

Reminder from YAGPDB

signwriting

[hot trout]

🥫 🦶

-remindme 17h signwriting

[split grail]

what does this meannnnnnnn

can foot

poki noka

ken jalan

[hot trout]

kicking the can down the road

[split grail]

a

[split grail]

poki {{nimi}} la mi wile e ni: ona o pana e linja tawa lipu ante, tawa lipu Linku, tawa lipu Wiktionary, tawa lipu Wikipesija pi toki pona

[split grail]

is it possible to have a corrected {{pu def}} for akesi, nasa and seli

[grand marten]

ike li lon la o toki e ona lon anpa

[split grail]

I have

[grand marten]

n

[split grail]

it's not critical

I just want it a bit

[grand marten]

sina wile e ni ku anu seme

[split grail]

ni ku

sorry I wasn't clear

[grand marten]

o awen lili

sina wile e ni seme

• open la pu · {{pu def|akesi|corrected=y}} la ku
• open la ku · {{pu def|akesi|original=y}} la pu

[split grail]

nanpa wan

[grand marten]

mi ni e toki [Inli]

n

[upbeat summit]

It looks like the font change has broken some examples in [[sitelen pona]]

also that reminds me #wile-kulupu message

[random sable]

Reminder for @hot trout

Reminder from YAGPDB

signwriting

[hot trout]

one of these days

-remindme 24h signwriting

[split grail]

the sitelen pona is always getting cut

the same happens with the <mark> tag

[grand marten]

ilo tu li tu e tu ilo

nasa la

<bdi>ilo tu</bdi>

li pona · taso

<bdi>ilo tu
</bdi>

li ike

a. ni li. ijo.

-a taso ni li nasa pi ilo [MediaWiki]

a kin mi lukin ala e ni → sitelen pi nasin [seli kiwen] li suli ante · ni la mi o alasa e nasin ante aaa

[grand marten]

jan [Lepeka] la ni li lon ilo soweli [Firefox] taso li lon ala ilo kiwen [Chrome]

[split grail]

the sitelen pona do be little

[grand marten]

mi toki e ni ala e ni → tu li lili poka · ale li suli poka · mi ken suli e sitelen [pona] ale lon wile

[hot trout]

o suli e ona

[split grail]

o suli a

[grand marten]

a taso · jan li [Lasina] e ona kepeken luka la ale li kama lili · la mi o suli e sitelen [Lasina] kin anu seme

[split grail]

jan li Lasina e seme

[grand marten]

e sitelen [pona]

[split grail]

a

[grand marten]

poka la ike lili la ona li ni la li sitelen li kama lili lili li tawa e ale lon anpa ona

tan ni → s[Lasina] li suli 16 · s[pona] li suli 17

[split grail]

nn

ante li pakala mute la o ante ala

[grand marten]

ni li lon ante ala a

mi sona (ta) pona e ni

[split grail]

(ta)?

[verbal coral]

ta ~post-ku, joke~ being unable to come up with a definition for a joke nimisin
coined by jan Son <#tomo-toki message>, with the definition made after they couldn't think of a definition

#4284d8

[grand marten]

a ni ala

[split grail]

dkdhdj

[grand marten]

mi kama sona → sona li kama lon mi Y mi kama li sona e nasin kama
mi kama ta sona → sona li kama lon mi

[split grail]

aaa

preverb marker?

[grand marten]

ni

[grand marten]

ike a

[upbeat summit]

House of Leaves

[zinc hazel]

to tomo pi lipu te

[random sable]

Reminder for @hot trout

Reminder from YAGPDB

signwriting

[split grail]

Ke Tami's daily reminder now

[split grail]

jfsldkfsd pakala

there has been some work on the sitelen pona article
so I want to ask then, what are the radicals of the script?

with a google search I've seen a few different analyses
[1] [2] [3] [4] [5]

also unrelated, this for sitelen pona pona

[grand marten]

moli

[upbeat summit]

I can't get a custom font setting to work for {{sp}}

[hot trout]

Hmm
What are radicals, in the first place?
Do they get assigned after the fact?
Do they need to be standardised?

[upbeat summit]

I think the "radicals" analysis is overextended at best

Feels silly to call barely recurring shapes that

[hot trout]

There are some shapes that are pretty well established as making up glyphs. ijo, luka, emitters, uta (only 3 I think), colour triangle, linja...

[split grail]

nn

those are true

I still feel like it would be an important thing to mention

because the analysis does show up and a lot, even though it's not standardised

[split grail]

also poki

for the location words + open

[split grail]

I guess

[split grail]

these still are, not a lot, but a few

emitters, ijo, luka, uta, kule, linja, poki ← ni li mute ||(7)||

what do you think about hatnotes on the bottom (source)
do you think this would be a useful thing on more articles?

[upbeat summit]

What iffff

Wikipesija interlanguage links

@grand marten i feel like i recall you talking about something like this at some point uhh

[split grail]

yeah!!!

it's those little boxes that say '[article] in Wiktionary' or 'in Wikisource' etc etc right?

[grand marten]

ni ala

ni

[split grail]

e

[split grail]

yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

not sure how you will set that up but pls yes

[grand marten]

taso lipu sama pi mute seme li lon ma tu ni · lipu nimi ala la wan anu seme · kin mi wile pana e lipu pi toki ante lon ma [s.p.l] la nasa li ken

[split grail]

lipu Wikipesija honestly should have a thread in ma pona, the server is so dead, it's tragic

[hot trout]

It has its own channel in ma pali

[split grail]

I know

[upbeat summit]

nasa seme

[split grail]

ma pali is inactive tho

[grand marten]

mi sona ala

[upbeat summit]

nasa a

[grand marten]

kin mi sona ala e ni → ni su ken lon ma [p:):ק:]

https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Guide_to_interwiki_linking

[split grail]

what is su btw

[grand marten]

kon ona li sama anu seme · nasin ona li sama li

[split grail]

ahh

nasa pona

[upbeat summit]

we need an article on what is ilo pi nanpa

[grand marten]

lipu a‽

sina wile la o pana e toki lon lipu pi [ilo nanpa] · mi ni ala tan ni → mi lipu e ijo mi la ike

[upbeat summit]

that way if anyone uses the wan pi wan joke and someone gets confused we can link them the.

[grand marten]

a mi kama ala e nasin musi ni · lon sona mi

[upbeat summit]

mi kin li sona ala e ona ale

[grand marten]

a

[hot trout]

tan ni la sina ken kepeken {{#tag:ref|

[grand marten]

a²

[upbeat summit]

aᵃ

[split grail]

if anything, create a new template called {{Ref}} like Wikipedia

[split grail]

how can one extract images from PDFs?
Commons has images from lipu tenpo and I assume that's how they got them??

[grand marten]

ilo ni li ken http://www.xpdfreader.com/pdfimages-man.html

ilo ante kin li ken

[split grail]

wawa

sina pona

[grand marten]

taso ona li ken ala lon ilo [Windows] anu seme

https://alternativeto.net/software/pdf-mod/about/

n

[split grail]

it can tho?

at least that's what it seems

[grand marten]

ilo nanpa wan li ken

ilo nanpa tu li ken ala

[split grail]

aaa

now then

................................what do I do

[grand marten]

pdfimages.exe -j 0001akesi.pdf 0001akesi

-j la sitelen pi nasin [JPEG] li awen lon nasin ni kama ala suli mute

nimi nanpa pini li open pi nimi sitelen ale

ike la sitelen mute li kepeken nasin nasa [PGM] anu [PPM] anu [PBM] la o ante e ona

sama ni https://it.sites.gettysburg.edu/knowledge-base/batch-converting-images-using-irfanview/

[split grail]

it just doesn't work, even tho I installed it correctly I think

(saying it doesn't exist)

[grand marten]

a sina o lon poki ona

anu o pana e nasin ona

sama ni · "C:\Program Files\xpdf-tools\pdfimages.exe"

anu o pana e nasin ni lon lipu PATH pi ilo [Windows]

[split grail]

aah

[split grail]

the images are like this

that's how it extracted them

a colour channel and alpha channel I think are the names

[split grail]

how can you combine these.. why is this so hard

[grand marten]

a pali li suli tan semeee https://graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/8397/gimp-using-an-image-as-the-transparency-layer-of-another-image

[split grail]

OKAY. let me try this this time
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Extracting_images_from_PDF

[split grail]

I don't have Gimp, but I THINK THAT NOW

with Inkscape

this works

(but I have school, my beloathed)

[split grail]

so then

I have a bunch of images, but they are still in two channels

I'm calling in for help

@grim mural hi, you're listed in the lipu tenpo files on Wikimedia Commons as the one who uploaded them, so may I ask did you extract the images from the PDFs or did you get access before that or idk

[grand marten]

lipu [History] la jan [Apeja Akesi] li lili e linja nasin kepeken ilo [TinyURL] lon tenpo weka · mi o weka ala weka e lili ni

[split grail]

weka

first of all, you shouldn't use bare links to begin with

I think I've already had some links that don't work? but I've only seen a small small part of it

please include full references

[grand marten]

poki {{Cite web}} li wile ala wile

[split grail]

wile

poki aleeee

[grand marten]

aaa seme la mi jooo

mi sona e ni → ilo ni li ken pona e ale https://refill.toolforge.org/ng/

[split grail]

poki {{Cite}} ale li wile <3

taso, poki {{Cite web}} li wile nanpa wan

it can't be that hard to add them as they're on Wikipedia/Wikimedia

[split grail]

a very minor nitpick when it comes to templates
please name templates the full title and have the shorter ones redirect to it

like, not {{sp}} but {{sitelen pona}} (so it already gives a clue to what it is for)

so much space

[split grail]

I moved it because of other reasons, but the whitespace is still not nice

[split grail]

is it lowercase tho

[grand marten]

a

mi anpa orz

[split grail]

orz

[grim mural]

to summarize our DMs for the group:
I extracted the images the same way you did, and my friend @zenith locust knew a quick and easy way to combine the color and alpha channels for all files, so they did it for me. I don't know how.

[split grail]

I don't know where else to ask this, how would you describe in words the difference between coming and going (kama and tawa)

kama is...
tawa is ...

[grand marten]

"becoming" en "movement"

[split grail]

nnn

I want to emphasise just the movement part here

[grim mural]

I believe it's all a matter of perspective.
If person X goes from person A to person B, A would say that X is going, and B would say that X is coming.

X would say to A "I'm going to B", and X would say to B "I'm coming to you".

[split grail]

it is a matter of perspective, and that's why it's so hard to say consisely

[grim mural]

consisely: it's "coming" if you or the person you're speaking to is the destination

I'm not sure that rule holds true in all cases, but probably in many at least.

[split grail]

movement towards the destination from the perspective of the destination

[grim mural]

yeah, something like that

[split grail]

seems good

[grim mural]

Oxford Dictionary definition of to come:

move or travel towards or into a place thought of as near or familiar to the speaker.

that's interesting

[split grail]

that is

sure a definition

[grim mural]

Wiktionary:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/come#Verb

[split grail]

I don't know why I didn't just use that

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/kama

[grim mural]

nice 👌

[split grail]

nimi mute li lon

I am a relative newcomer to the community (before mostly under the shadows) so a lot of these may not have a lot of info and may not reflect all the ways that the words are used

[grim mural]

that's fine, people can always add and correct stuff

I believe very few articles are fully complete/"done" at this stage anyway

[grand marten]

mi lon kulupu lon tenpo suli · taso mi kin li pakala suli e lipu

[grim mural]

mi sama

[split grail]

wawa

[split grail]

musi a dfjsklf

[zinc hazel]

musi bute

[split grail]

I'm gonna make an article for songs in toki pona, so I want to ask how to catalog them (they are sorted by name), maybe this?

[song name] -- [artists] (translation of [song name original)

[grand marten]

lipu sama mute li kepeken poki

| kalama      | ijo pali   | kalama mama |
|-------------|------------|-------------|
| soweli mute | gbrltxrdrj | Dek bovinoj |

[split grail]

nnn

ni li lon

[split grail]

does this work
https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Songs

the bare minimum

I also want the table to reach all the way to the right yknow what I mean

[regal panther]

you might wanna just reformat this article https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Music

[split grail]

e

....i didn't see that

that seems like a better option

but right now, mi lape

also thank youu