#Tamir Avenger: An Alternative to the IADS

18 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

snow tusk
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So, with the launch of Lythium, a problem has been made clear (though, it was already clear before): The FIM-92F stingers do not work like a real Stinger would, and this presents heavy problems with the locking of targets that have any background behind them. This means we are esesntially paying 650/450/250, a hefty amount of supplies, the most important resources, for an Early Warning Radar manned by a player who can look for ground vehicles, and a Weapon that we find in Harpy crates anwyay, that has a 50/50 chance of working due to Arma mechanics, and then another 50/50 chance of working due to what appears to be mediocre flare resistance.

FIM-92F does not get any of the benefits of the radar lock, with the added danger of leaving the radar enabled making them a priority target for some of the red air assets and near-requiring them to find spots with extreme elevation, making them a visible priority target, too.

The reason infrared-guided radar locked missiles (AIM-9X) somewhat work on Jets (or even helicopters with the AH-1Z Cobra) is due to their elevation allowing them to see the target properly without background clutter directly being in the way a lot of the time, thus allowing us to fire. Also on jets, we tend to have the AMRAAM which works properly due to a radar guiding a radar missile, which works against background clutter.

But, some time ago, we used to have access to an Avenger firing Iron Dome (Tamir) missiles. For the following reasons, this should be reinstated:

1: The Tamir missile has the same range as a Stinger, so we aren't any more standoff.

2: Due to the aforementioned reasons with the AMRAAM, the Tamir Avenger almost never struggles with locking and firing on targets that are flying above ground level, but have background clutter in their way.

3: The Tamir's resistance to countermeasures isn't that much higher compared to the Stinger, in relevant scenarios.

4: It would be more intuitive for new Harpy players to learn the asset, because we would be separating the crate Stingers with IR lock from the Tamir Avenger, with radar lock. It would also promote the purchasing of Harpy assets and slotting Harpy, as Harpy is a role slotted for the good of the Company, anyway.

5: We have the relevant SOPs to punish offensive use of the 20mm cannon the Tamir loadout supposedly comes with. This was the reason given for it's withdrawal by an Odin at the time, when questioned. (Truth be told, it sounds like an excuse more than a reason, but I digress). No SOPs would need changing, it's already stated that you cannot use the Avenger for firing on enemy ground units.

6: While excusing the Stingers may be fine for the Taliban (which have been progressively higher tech and thus, it's not even possible to excuse the Stinger's buggy performance anymore), when and if we go back to fighting the Russians (VDV or the regular Army), we will go back to having to fight high-tech aircraft like the Ka-50/Ka-52 or the Su-57, against which the Avenger is not only underperforming, but blatantly uncompetitive (with proof of it's extremely inconsistent performance against the Su-57 already present). This, alongside the economy changes, will doom the asset, as it will never be worth the price tag.

So, please, reinstate the Tamir Avenger. It wouldn't make the asset stronger...just more consistent.

placid lynx
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I want to add on what knockout said, if we go back to fighting against russian air, the avenger has a 0% survivability change against the felon unless breaking SOPs and getting out of the vic. You get a stinger lock against the felon at 2 km (the missile will get flared anyways), and by the time the missile reaches it, it will 100% launch an AGM on you.

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The tamir avenger is the middle ground between no blufor SAM Site and a Patriot battery which may be too OP. Same range as the stingers, but consistent with the lock.

snow tusk
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Yes, the Felon is especially fucked with lock ranges, very dependent on aspect and angle (infact, it is so dependent it's inconsistent and I would call it bugged) . Meanwhile, the Kh-38MAE (the AGM fired by the Su-57) has a 4km lock range, a wide firing and lock arc, and automatically tracks to target while the pilot can go full evasive (and you definetely can't go evasive)

Oh, and then we remember that they often spawned in pairs too

placid lynx
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Always a minimum of two

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With the tamir avenger since its a radar lock, you will have to keep lock until splash, basically its balanced.

stoic quest
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But what if you spam fired missiles?

snow tusk
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honestly, that's the only problem...but that's pretty wasteful conduct (also, why would you need to spam missiles if 2 is enough)

stoic quest
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Because America

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And the best kill is overkill

snow tusk
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also, I forgot if this was the case, but I am pretty sure you do need to lock again after firing

stoic quest
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Yes

placid lynx
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Negative

stoic quest
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Keep trying to lock and firing as soon as you do

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Repeatedly

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Until it's dead

snow tusk
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well, better than firing once, missing and being unable to fire again even if you could

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...or not firing at all