❗-1-18-experimental

[half walrus]

https://eternity.community/index.php/paper-optimization/

[hexed panther]

@feral spire i assume this is u. what u mean by subject to change

[feral spire]

It depend on if leaf is gonna suck it up or just use Mojang’s name on no-tick

[peak pulsar]

leaf has been sleeping for a very long time now

[hexed panther]

i hope he does. i dont like this min 5

[peak pulsar]

is he ok

[feral spire]

Thsts the main reason why I didn’t update anything yet

[feral spire]

Busy designing CPU

[timber ridge]

He’s DMing me poetry

So . . . no?

[hexed panther]

another issue i got is the despawn ranges

if my desapwn is 128 = 8 chunks

my sim dis is 4/5

[feral spire]

It’s fine

Read the bumblebee story for potential side effect

But if you want to keep the drop down mob farm still functional

[timber ridge]

Bumblebee story?

[hexed panther]

i got a plugin that helps deal with it

[feral spire]

That’s the side effect

Thrn it’s up to you then

[hexed panther]

mob cap being filled up from non ticking entities in loaded chunks

that effect right?

@feral spire u mention about the ticks per. are you saying that its better for the server to fill those caps so its not constantly checking? so should i put everything back to 1?

[feral spire]

To me yes, but people have their own opinions

You seem to know enough so you can test it and come to your own conclusion

[hexed panther]

yh i mean i drop some of my settings low and got plugins to adjust it to make it more vanilla like. like for villagers resetting their iron golem countdown when outside of activation range

altho it broke upon 1.18 and i cba to redo all the nms of it

another question is what could cause an idle server to use 150% cpu, i got another server almost identical using 8%

ping in reply

[polar quarry]

what could cause an idle server to use 150% cpu
plugins, datapacks

show timings

[hexed panther]

nvm its my plugin haha

forgot to remove the constant loop test

[feral spire]

[near mist]

Per player mob spawning is not working for me on 1.18

[hexed panther]

turn it on

[near mist]

It is on

Its set to true

[dusky smelt]

Anyone noticed any strange feature placement errors causing chunks to not generate on the latest paper version?

[polar quarry]

i dont think so. can you reproduce without plugins?

[dusky smelt]

It happened when I tp'd to the area not running any generation plugins, happens with Chunky and worldborder's generation

[polar quarry]

your profile picture is off centered. circle doesnt match circle

[dusky smelt]

Oh is it?

[near mist]

is that.... is... discord light mode!!!

[polar quarry]

yea deal with it

[dusky smelt]

Oh no,

it is ever so slightly off

[polar quarry]

i guess you're lagging, then?

[spring shard]

Hey guys, i have sometimes problem. That the chunks are not loading.

[polar quarry]

give more info

show timings

[dusky smelt]

Maybe? ill pull the logs on it brb

[polar quarry]

1.18 chunk loading is slower, world gen is more demanding and aalso theres like 2x the height

[spring shard]

Mhh, idk for 2 houres the day. when i write in chat, in my game i dont see the feedback, but in my console i see it.

After 2 minutes i get kicked

"losing connection"

[polar quarry]

does it say server overloaded?

[spring shard]

sadly not

[polar quarry]

or maybe something related to connection reset, peer closed connection, keepalive, something network? => your connection is trash

[spring shard]

idk i have a ping to frankfurt from 5 ms and a 100k download and 25k upload

i dont think its because my internet ^^

[dusky smelt]

Seems I'm getting overloaded with a large structure generating, the thread dump has alot of "structure starts"

[polar quarry]

what is 100k download?

100 Kilobit per second?

you cant play minecraft on that

[spring shard]

100k means 100 mbit

[peak pulsar]

ye

[spring shard]

12,5 mb

[normal pecan]

1.18.1 is supposedly coming out december 10th yea?

[polar quarry]

that's what it shows on the freeze logs? it might just be what you got stuck on when it finally gave up, not sure if structures are the origin of your issues. give more info, like show timings and stuff

[timber ridge]

I don’t think there’s an actual date yet

[polar quarry]

oh ok i had never heard of such a thing

[timber ridge]

That’s because that isn’t true. 100k means 100 kbit

[dusky smelt]

Not entirely sure, but thats what it seems im scrolling through the thread dump from the overload errors.

[spring shard]

i was to sleepy to write 100000 download ^^

[normal pecan]

The bugs above are fixed for the pre-release version, which is currently only available on PC, but is destined for a live release "at the end of next week" — the 10th of December. - mojang

[polar quarry]

can you fucking use units in your numbers. i don't understand you. what is 100000 download. how is 100k download equal to 100 mbit/s. how is that related to slow server world generation. i can't help you

[normal pecan]

i had just heard it somewhere, but apparently there's plenty of articles on it

[spring shard]

lmao

^^

[timber ridge]

AFAIK Mojang hasn’t released a date yet

[polar quarry]

there's no official date thougfh

[timber ridge]

So guess we’ll see on the 10th

[normal pecan]

well that would be why i said supposedly december 10th

lol

im more surprised they upheld their nov 30th deadline

[polar quarry]

wish they'd push it sooner, i would love to have that cylindrical fog

[normal pecan]

same

[polar quarry]

such a great feature, goes great with the new world

[normal pecan]

not even thinking about updating to 1.18 until they release 1.18.1

because spherical fog is atrocious

[feral spire]

You can use sodium extra on fabric to remove it entirely btw

Been doing it since forever

[polar quarry]

same but they moved it consideraly farther away and now it doesnt show up vertically, might actually look good now

[normal pecan]

most players on my server use optifine or vanilla instances lol

so i test in those clients

although i swear there was a native no fog feature anyway

[feral spire]

Fabric is better. Tell them

[normal pecan]

did they remove it for 1.18?

[feral spire]

Yes optifine has it too

[polar quarry]

optifine is so hostile, wish people would move to sodium :(

[normal pecan]

ah i didn't see it then.

[feral spire]

Maybe it’s removed but I no longer use optifine

[carmine night]

Especially with iris now, sodium is the way to go

[feral spire]

So I don’t know

[normal pecan]

honestly in my experience i've gotten 10-15 more fps on optifine than sodium

not a crazy amount, but in more laggy areas it means a lot

[feral spire]

@normal pecan I made this for my community but if you want you can share it. This is a switching guide for monke. https://eternity.community/index.php/minecraft-client-optimization/

[normal pecan]

thanks!

[polar quarry]

you're missing the other sodium-like mods such as phosphor, lithium, hydrogen etc

[normal pecan]

nah had em all

vs just optifine

[polar quarry]

that's a bit sad but oh well

[normal pecan]

but i'll try your guide then, and see if i get a difference

@feral spire

thanks!

[carmine night]

I noticed a similar fps difference when sodium was new, but it has become more consistent than optifine for me over the course of it's updates

[rocky nest]

I noticed improvements on my low-end device from eternity's guide vs optifine, but like integrated graphics go brr

[polar quarry]

this curseforge modpack has all of the performance and beauty mods https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/modpacks/fabulously-optimized

(how come discord didn't show up those huge previews for that link? also i dont really trust modpacks lmao use at your own discretion)

[feral spire]

My community has a lot of people with weak PCs and they see a 60 fps to 300 fps increase

It’s crazy

[rocky nest]

I mean I cap at 60 since refresh rate

also the one thing I miss on fabric is optifine's always-on FPS display

[polar quarry]

sodium extra has that i think

[rocky nest]

(also I have a laptop)

[feral spire]

It’s on sodium extra yes

[dusky smelt]

Error Im getting is a Chunk not there when requested error

Ill slow down the generation process and force enable it see if that changes anything and report back

It also might be at my border

Yep that's what it is

has to be something to do with the padding, thanks for the help guys 🙂

[sturdy tree]

im having a hard time finding java 17 for linux server

[half walrus]

https://paper.readthedocs.io/en/latest/java-update/index.html

[long edge]

read this ^

[sturdy tree]

ty

indeed exactly what i was looking for tyty

readthedocs.io <<<---- point taken lol

[onyx vault]

distro?

[timber ridge]

They found it already

[onyx vault]

okey

[atomic smelt]

Has anyone been experiencing disconnection issues.

Logs only show that the player disconnected, which is frustrating.
Usually 1 player gets kicked then 10-15 seconds later the rest do as well.

I've got some plugins, and datapacks so there is multiple potential causes to the issue but wondering if others are setting it.

The disconnect message ranges from

- Connection Reset 
- Incorrect Header Check
- Packet Sized to Large

That's all I've seen so far.

[dark wigeon]

Yep, i believe it's a vanilla issue fixed in .1

[atomic smelt]

Ahh

As long as its not me tbh

Cause trying to figure out the cause would have made me go even more bald

Is it proxmox? Or Opnsense?!

[sturdy tree]

im actually really still having a hard time and just noticed im on Ubuntu 20 on that system java version indeed returns 17 but when running the jar im still getting the error that i need a min of 17

ive tried the generic method and the Ubuntu method i think im going to have to find 16 and remove it

i had to compile 16 from source for 17 ... who knows where is actually is 🙂

[bronze linden]

This is awesome, thank you

[peak pulsar]

Do you guys think I’d be able to run simple things like Essentials and Optifine on the experimental branch

[peak pulsar]

have you tried update-java-alternatives?

or maybe not that exact command

[sturdy tree]

no i have not i will try that next

[peak pulsar]

something something java alternatives

[sturdy tree]

my servers are on attached raid im almost wondering if it would be easier to just wipe the os

[peak pulsar]

i doubt it

https://www.megajason.com/2021/06/24/how-to-use-a-different-java-version-on-ubuntu/ this seems like a good article

[sturdy tree]

``` this might actually work

[peak pulsar]

search it first

[hot zenith]

End cities aren't loading

[peak pulsar]

running essentialsx just fine on paper 32

was also working just fine with paper 10

oh god it's 48 already

[clever topaz]

how are you running the server? start script? ptero?

[peak pulsar]

Alright I’ll do some self tests then today on my server I’ve been running with friends, just wanted to know if other people weren’t having too many issues

I also realized after I sent that message that Optifine was a mod lol

i don't use many essentials features but the ones i need are there

i dont think stuff should be broken

[sharp hinge]

also works on debian. basically you can install as many java versions as you want. alternatives lets you set the default, but if you run multiple things, just use alternatives to see the path of the java binary, and use that specific binary needed to run your jar.

if you need jdk17 on debian buster, I was able to use the amazon corretto build by adding them to my apt sources.

[peak pulsar]

a similar system exists on every linux distro/derivative, i came from fedora and googled a similar system in debian based ones

so not just debian

[sharp hinge]

yea, just referring to the specific instructions.

[hot zenith]

I'm using paper 1.18 and end cities aren't loading, I deleted the end world file to reset the end, after that we're unable to find an end city.

[sharp hinge]

well... thats the end then.... huehuehue

[peak pulsar]

@hot zenith have you tried using the /locate command to see if anything shows up that way

[sharp hinge]

^

[hot zenith]

I'll try

Yeah it worked

That's odd it's like 22k blocks out holy shit

[peak pulsar]

shit luck

/tp to those coords and see if anything’s actually there

🙏

[sturdy tree]

i had to do some messing about with the directories but that link got me going ty

[peak pulsar]

good to hear have fun

[sturdy tree]

i was pretty convinced i should just take the 20 min to wipe:)

[peak pulsar]

pretty sure ubuntu would contain a version of openjdk ootb and it won't be latest

[modern pendant]

me waiting for paper 1.18 to come out

[sharp hinge]

i actually find using multiple java versions easier on *nix than my windows box, heh.

[peak pulsar]

how would one even do it on windows

edit path manually?

[sharp hinge]

well, i do it all the time as a java dev by trade 😛

[sturdy tree]

i had to try a few but this is the one that worked for me on 20 openjdk version "17.0.1" 2021-10-19 LTS OpenJDK Runtime Environment Corretto-17.0.1.12.1 (build 17.0.1+12-LTS) OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM Corretto-17.0.1.12.1 (build 17.0.1+12-LTS, mixed mode,

[sharp hinge]

depends on use-case. if you are running a jar, you can do same as nix, and use exec path for java.exe

but if the application is a wrapped jar inside an exe, you have to specify java via a config file usually. my eclipse IDE is a pain in the ass in this regard.

[peak pulsar]

i see

[sharp hinge]

or change the path.... but gross.

[sturdy tree]

i have a really hard time compiling a jar in linux

[sharp hinge]

i actually specifically leave java out of my path so i dont use the wrong version by mistake.

[inner crypt]

I just have java home in my path

And then change java home if needed

Using a script that's also in path

[sharp hinge]

to be clear: as someone who works in java every day for my day job I hate it with a passion, but I love the money! 😛

[inner crypt]

So if I wanna use an old java version in a terminal, I just enter java11 into terminal and be done

[sturdy tree]

thanks everyone im going to go check out paper 18 i appreciate you all helping me get patched up

[inner crypt]

Also, as a developer you should just have latest installed, you can target older java versions with that

[sharp hinge]

IF only it actually worked like that.

[inner crypt]

It works like that for me

[sharp hinge]

don't try to use removed and deprecated functionality then 😛

legacy code maintenance is a bitch in the enterprise.

[inner crypt]

You can literally just set your source and target language level per project

I work for an insurance, don't try to teach me about legacy code, lol

[sharp hinge]

there is functionality literally removed that doesn't exist in java 11+, for GOOD reason I might add.

hah, I work in insurance too 😛

[inner crypt]

I interact with code that was written before generics were a thing

[sharp hinge]

something about Java and insurance companies 😛

[peak pulsar]

insurance besties

[inner crypt]

Java is just the most popular language in enterprise

[sharp hinge]

tis true

[inner crypt]

(for many good reasons)

[sharp hinge]

(and some bad)

it was better before Oracle.

gimme back my sun micro daddy plz

[peak pulsar]

rip solaris

[dry iron]

I always see conversations about Java stuffs breaking compatibility in enterprise. What horrifying things are they doing in their code that breaks so easily?

[sharp hinge]

usually its just bad code.

[inner crypt]

It's fud mostly

[sharp hinge]

or code that hasnt been updated since the dawn of time.

[inner crypt]

I managed to upgrade everybody here to java 11 and most of the pain points where people using old gwt stuff and needing to add some libs to maven that have been removed from the JDK

[sharp hinge]

java makes it pretty easy (but not as easy as javascript) to do really dumb things (as a developer).

[inner crypt]

I think we at 95% java 11 now

The last ones are code by 3rd parties

Like we still in process of updating our CRM

(I am on the java governance board and can push for stuff like forcing people to update their shit to modern java versions, my apps where the first running java 11 in prod)

[sharp hinge]

once i finally got our old Base64-using code converted off the deprecated (and removed in 1.11) calls, i was able to get everyone up to 11 last month.

you have a governance board? haha, nice.

pretty sure they would have to form a committee to decide if we should have a board around my shop 😛

[inner crypt]

Idk how old that is, my boss was on there, was out of office one day and asked me go instead and everybody agreed I should stay for all future meetings ^^

[sharp hinge]

haha

too many dinosaurs at my place that think "it works dont touch it"

[inner crypt]

But yeah, we are ~650 people in IT so gotta have some kind of place where we can discuss stuff like that

[inner crypt]

We force everybody to at least update deps and stuff 4 times a year

[polar quarry]

oh no

[sharp hinge]

our company culture is garbage in IT. basically 100 different silos that don't communicate

[inner crypt]

"platform updates"

[sharp hinge]

turf wars abound

[inner crypt]

Oh company culture we always were great, this is cologne after all so most of the stuff you manage by just walking over to a coworker and getting it done instead of going thru some proper process and shit (Compliance hates that but everybody hates them so who cares ^^)

[earnest birch]

I'm ready for Java 17 and the project as well. Now we downgraded to Java 11 because the customer uses redhat images and there is no LTS image with Java 17 support.

[crisp lodge]

The plugin miniblocks stopped working on the latest version paper 1.18, previous versions 1.18 it worked. https://www.spigotmc.org/resources/miniblocks.85569/

[sharp hinge]

Makes sense. I'm in the good 'ol MURICA. Middle management cares about one thing: profit-loss ratio 😛

[polar quarry]

cool thanks for sharing

[half plume]

I guess you will try to enforce java 17 now ?

[inner crypt]

IT is separated from the rest of the company, I don't give a shit about profits, not my thing to worry about

[sharp hinge]

I feel this in my bones.

[inner crypt]

Pipeline team agreed to commit to supporting a new LTS version in Jenkins and the rest of the pipeline tooling within 6 months

They super busy with a bunch of stuff sadly

[sharp hinge]

Hah - our shit so fucked up. Every division has their own IT teams for software stuff. The "corp" it is just for desktop/server and networking/security.

[half plume]

I mean that's cool they all agreed on this :)

[dry iron]

Did you try grabbing the snapshot version of NBT-API that is meant for 1.18?

[sharp hinge]

But yea, in review, most people who complain about java (like me) - it's really not java at fault. just bad code/environments/culture/etc

[inner crypt]

All of which can be fixed

[earnest birch]

I heard that check24 has such a concept.

[inner crypt]

Be the change you wanna see in the world

[polar quarry]

• starts punching windows 10 users *

[inner crypt]

Not only them, a friend of mine works at Otto and they also let every IT team do whatever, I extremely disagree with that philosophy

[sharp hinge]

"in theory" 🙂 - Oh and since we are Silo'd, I do tend to run my little silo with an iron fist. I ruffle feathers of the potatos that surround me, but we are probably one of the better among the company. thus actually migrating to java11 from 1.7 (yea.... lol) this year. still not perfect, but meh. like i said, money is money.

[inner crypt]

If you want them to move to Linux, you gotta make Linux actually usable for normal users, see LTT vids, Linux Desktop is still a clusterfuck

[crisp lodge]

Yes, I used 2.9.0 snapshot

[polar quarry]

tbh i agree with you, i think its easier to patch invasive windows 10 features than to use linux

[sharp hinge]

Been watching this, and as someone who uses debian desktop about 30% of the time - they are hitting the nails on the head with this "daily driver linux" series of vids.

[earnest birch]

Higher costs but improved individuality. A new proxy account doesn't take 2 sprints then. It will be done on the short way.

[inner crypt]

I actively try to not being a head monopoly, that's just a painful situation to be in, having to worry about shit hitting the fan if am taking vacation for example, or constantly being annoyed by people about a project and not able to delegate to focus on something else

[polar quarry]

good thing i completely gave up with linux and moved back to windows

[sharp hinge]

at this point I am most surprised someone like RedHat hasn't tried to just monetize an REALLY REALLY good linux desktop distro or something.

[inner crypt]

I mean there's fedora

Also redhat is part of the bad guys now

What they did to open shift is criminal, they can burn in hell

[polar quarry]

what happened

[inner crypt]

Insert obligatory fuck IBM here

[sharp hinge]

Oh for sure. Like I said, our stuff is a shitshow - but at the same time, I turn off the "care" button when I log out for the day. I am 100% mercenary for now. With kids and such, it's easier just to take the paycheck and enjoy the relative flexibility. I can worry about job satisfaction when they are grown. Until then, working remote and not worrying about commuting to say, seattle, is a huge boon.

There is also a certain advantage that comes to being the smartest person in the room (although its bad for personal growth, so I have to get that elsewhere).

[sharp hinge]

My friend who works @ redhat here in the states kinda hates reality these days since the IBM buyout.

[inner crypt]

I solved that by hiring a new college and having her sit in my office, I have never seen anybody deep dive into my shit code and actually understand it like she does

She's like me, but since she's 10 years older she's a bit wiser, does a bit more due diligence and stuff and it's rubbing off on me, lol

Heck, I even write unit tests now, use feature branches and merge requests 😂

[sharp hinge]

no need to brag now 😛

that sounds like sensible development practices. can't have that.

[half plume]

Just to know what's the proportion of Paper core members and maintainers using Windows(+WSL) and full linux ?

(If you know)

[inner crypt]

We don't keep spread sheets on that, lol

[half plume]

I guess xD

[polar quarry]

i hope most devs use real linux

[autumn comet]

This would also be the wrong channel to ask that in

[zealous idol]

mac, of course, being fake linux runs

[sharp hinge]

as an RDU of paper, I prefer fake linux myself.

[inner crypt]

Cat is Mac, DenWav is some Linux distro, am window no WSL, Kenny is windows wslg, kashike uses Windows only for gaming, jmp leaf Mari all also use Linux for dev I think

[half plume]

I see :)

[peak pulsar]

kick cat

[timid wolf]

anyone else's tps plummet to 9 in the latest experimental version

[peak pulsar]

Send a timings report

[timid wolf]

sure 1s gonna see if it's maybe worldedit or worldguard

https://timings.aikar.co/?id=7ea7e690d13e47999d5b5dd98e3b36f6

@peak pulsar

only thing that's changed is paper version and worldguard and worldedit

but worldguard and worldedit were removed and it still happens

I'll try downgrading paper version

[feral spire]

This timing is not very accurate

[timid wolf]

yeah it was only a 3 minute one

[feral spire]

5 minute times and from startup does not tell you anything

Start with proper flags

[half walrus]

https://startmc.sh/

[feral spire]

And read this guide to Config your stuff if you are running weak hardwares

[half walrus]

https://eternity.community/index.php/paper-optimization/

[cyan patrol]

Too many entities/mobs? @timid wolf

[timid wolf]

shouldn't be

[cyan patrol]

It was listed on the loaded chunks lagging in the timings report. Something around 1750 tick-entities.

[timid wolf]

not sure where the entities would be or why they spawned there

oh na

[thorny burrow]

Restarted server and this happened around where a player was. All the blocks are bugged and you cannot place anything in the chunks. You just violently shake up and down when you walk into it

[timid wolf]

my bad yall

[thorny burrow]

any idea on a fix? apart from deleting the region file

[timid wolf]

I forgot I put the tick speed on 10000 earlier

holy shit

[cyan patrol]

Holy...uff

[feral spire]

Restore from backup

Make a backup first

[cyan patrol]

3 is normal @timid wolf 😆

[timid wolf]

yeah lol

I wanted my crops to grow fast for a second

it was like 3 hours ago when I did it

[feral spire]

You know bone meal exist???

[timid wolf]

it was aging soil

not actual crops

[polar quarry]

well since this is #❗-1-18-experimental im going to experiment and join 179 clients because im bored

[thorny burrow]

strangely fixed by sending everyone out of render distance and returning

no region fuckery required

[rare orchid]

fog manipulation, possible since 1.18

[timid wolf]

dope

[polar quarry]

i think mojang fixed that loading issue in 1.18.1

[rare orchid]

chunk loading does get glitched when in low fog distance sadly

[peak pulsar]

is this done by sending a fake render distance for the client?

[rare orchid]

yes

[peak pulsar]

neat

[fringe yew]

there is something seriously wrong with Paper 1.18

[normal pecan]

ay can i get a link for the top right

[fringe yew]

seriously no lag compared to 1.16 and 1.17

[normal pecan]

ive not had any issues

[feral spire]

Use fabric sodium + sodium extra

You can do it on client side without doing anything on server side

[foggy blaze]

Is the 1.18 good to start a server on or should i wait a little bit longer?

[feral spire]

Wait for stable if you can

[polar quarry]

it works fine enough if you accept that it might crash sometimes, keep many backups

[normal pecan]

personally i'd wait for 1.18.1 (preferably stable) builds

[foggy blaze]

yeah thanks for the update!

[fierce ravine]

if you're just setting up i suppose it should be fine

just wait to release till there are stable builds

[feral spire]

I encounter a chunk issue

But a restart fixed it

[timid wolf]

have them run out and load chunks in spectator

[polar quarry]

this is horrible

works

[topaz nymph]

Are you trying to stress test ur server or something?

[polar quarry]

im procrastinating on homework.

[topaz nymph]

Ah, been there.

[polar quarry]

well, the moment these 159 players start running away the server lags, client goes to like <1 fps and almost all of them get kicked

so i guess paper 1.18 isn't ready for 160 players.

[peak pulsar]

or your hardware isn't

[topaz nymph]

Well do note, all of these are close together as well

This isn't a totally accurate representation of 160 actual players

[feral spire]

You will need to move player far away and actually make them do stuff

[peak pulsar]

michaels test server held up decently with like 150 players

decently, as in, 2 tps

[feral spire]

Otherwise this test isn’t going to tell anything

[polar quarry]

i can make them jump, attack, mount stuff, follow other players and break things

realistically i can barely make them walk forward because the server lags too much

[18:57:11 INFO]: Could not spread 160 entities around 0.5, 0.5 (too many entities for space - try using spread of at most 0.00)

:(

[tawny lance]

make them fly lmao

[polar quarry]

A

[fierce ravine]

go do your homework

[polar quarry]

well, spreading 160 players to new chunks crashes the server on a 12 core machine with 8 gb of ram.

[polar quarry]

😭

[violet wing]

yeah you probably shouldnt do that

[feral spire]

Told you. It doesn’t cost much if all player in one chunk

This also happens before on that worldQL thingy. And the demo is just a lot of Steve’s

[vapid prawn]

Huh, that looks like your JVM and/or OS config was bad

Or maybe you don't have enough RAM to generate 160 players worth of chunks at once 😄

[polar quarry]

do you have any suggestions on what i could do to properly fit 160 players?

[vapid prawn]

1. Show more of the logs
2. Show more of the logs

Can't say for sure why it died from what you gave

Are you planning on having 160 players generating new chunks constantly?

[polar quarry]

right now i'm installing viaversion so i can run the bots on 1.16, that way the script i made doesn't chew through my cpu/ram

[polar quarry]

yes, im trying to get 160 bots to fly in a straight line using spectator mode to stress a server

i have like 20 of them running in circles, attacking each other and digging holes but that is working perfectly fine, since we're all standing in the same chunk. this is useless.

[final mango]

They’re not even bots, they’re packets

[polar quarry]

whatever kid, discord bots are just http requests with some if()s and you still call them bots

[final mango]

You can demonstrate the same thing in 20 minutes with protocollib and a server with a gig of ram

[proud zenith]

but like, real players do a lot more than just flying, they build stupidly big redstone machines, huge bases stacked with block entities, etc

so its only a subset of the server ur actually testing, chunk loading/generating

[vapid prawn]

All my benchmarking back in the day was 20 NPCs randomly spread through the world just standing around being invincible (but not creative so mob AI would still consider them)

I was trying to optimize the base level of things, chunk lookups, block and entity ticking, etc

Mining stuff is whatever, redstone machines you can nerf/remove, and you can pregen worlds

[peak pulsar]

how do i add this?

[timid wolf]

it's a bit more than that bro

[peak pulsar]

Can you send the crash log?

[azure inlet]

You could give a look at https://github.com/Eoghanmc22/rust-mc-bot for stress testing

[polar quarry]

i made my own

[azure inlet]

How performant is it? In our case we do tests involving hundreds/thousands of connections

[covert jolt]

does the rust-mc-bot move around?

[azure inlet]

Yep, it is actually the only thing they do

[covert jolt]

o

yoink

[normal pecan]

build #50 of 1.18 paper

granted like the last few have been a lot of reverts for changes but still

[gilded ice]

8 steps to complete the 1.18 to do

[pulsar dagger]

51 coming soon ™️

[feral spire]

[unkempt vortex]

is it safe to use waterfall 1.18 rn?

[long edge]

yes

[feral spire]

Take a look for velocity btw

[long edge]

but if you're just getting started, check out velocity

that's for paper

[unkempt vortex]

wdym?

i use waterfall for my network

[long edge]

yes, you are on the paper section of the downloads page

click on "waterfall" at the top for waterfall downloads

[unkempt vortex]

400 builds omg 👁️

[long edge]

that's not just 1.18, the waterfall build number never resets

as there are never two versions maintained at the same time, it supports 1.8-1.18

[crude orchid]

whats the eta

[pulsar dagger]

wat

velocity is released

[plain solstice]

Lol BTW there is no eta behinde eternity's name

[peak pulsar]

wut

[topaz nymph]

Things happen! ;p

[pulsar dagger]

1. Spigot made changes 2) They caused an NPE 3) we test out a fix that doesn't work 4) we revert fix 5) we revert original spigot change

[topaz nymph]

Things did indeed happen.

[modern lintel]

Whats NPE?

[pulsar dagger]

error

[kindred basalt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLHL75H_VEM

[modern lintel]

Oh

[topaz nymph]

How convenient.

[vague falcon]

why does this look like slack

[worthy thunder]

good goat optimization

[gusty trench]

Ok, good to know it's not just me

[peak pulsar]

goats suck

[fervent lynx]

paper lets you configure the tick rates of mob behaviors, so you can nerf that goat behavior and none of your players will likely care

kind of funny that goats are still laggy though, pretty sure I saw goat optimizations mentioned at least once or twice in the 1.18 snapshot changelogs somewhere along the way

[tender gale]

reminds me of this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/qn92lu/a_visualization_of_every_check_made_before_a_goat/

[fervent lynx]

lmao yeah pretty sure that's the exact behavior that's the problem too, so overkill

[pulsar dagger]

checking every possible pos sounds exactly like something mojang would do

tbh I'd wanna see a spark there

[topaz nymph]

Yea I am gonna do a profile and see rn, actually

But it's iterating through each block given here and checking stuff
BlockPos.betweenClosed(i - this.maxLongJumpWidth, j - this.maxLongJumpHeight, k - this.maxLongJumpWidth, i + this.maxLongJumpWidth, j + this.maxLongJumpHeight, k + this.maxLongJumpWidth);

[zealous idol]

does it actually check every possible position before jumping? can't it just...check one random position, if not valid, check another, etc?

[pulsar dagger]

it should be able to fail fast checking the outside first yeah

[topaz nymph]

This is the logic

Iterable<BlockPos> iterable = BlockPos.betweenClosed(i - this.maxLongJumpWidth, j - this.maxLongJumpHeight, k - this.maxLongJumpWidth, i + this.maxLongJumpWidth, j + this.maxLongJumpHeight, k + this.maxLongJumpWidth);
        PathNavigation pathNavigation = mob.getNavigation();

        for(BlockPos blockPos2 : iterable) {
            double d = blockPos2.distSqr(blockPos);
            if ((i != blockPos2.getX() || k != blockPos2.getZ()) && pathNavigation.isStableDestination(blockPos2) && mob.getPathfindingMalus(WalkNodeEvaluator.getBlockPathTypeStatic(mob.level, blockPos2.mutable())) == 0.0F) {
                Optional<Vec3> optional = this.calculateOptimalJumpVector(mob, Vec3.atCenterOf(blockPos2));
                optional.ifPresent((vel) -> {
                    this.jumpCandidates.add(new LongJumpToRandomPos.PossibleJump(new BlockPos(blockPos2), vel, Mth.ceil(d)));
                });
            }
        }

[pulsar dagger]

or something like that

[zealous idol]

this seems like a no-brainer but like, mojang

oh god yea ok there's no return

it checks every possible one

[topaz nymph]

👏

[plain solstice]

🤯

[pulsar dagger]

making getJumpVector lazy might do it

[zealous idol]

i'm guessing it randomly grabs from jumpCandidates later?

[pulsar dagger]

yep

[topaz nymph]

It does

[zealous idol]

is that uh, cached/stored around?

[topaz nymph]

if (this.chosenJump.isPresent()) {
            if (l - this.prepareJumpStart >= 40L) {
                mob.setYRot(mob.yBodyRot);
                mob.setDiscardFriction(true);
                Vec3 vec3 = this.chosenJump.get().getJumpVector();
                double d = vec3.length();
                double e = d + mob.getJumpBoostPower();
                mob.setDeltaMovement(vec3.scale(e / d));
                mob.getBrain().setMemory(MemoryModuleType.LONG_JUMP_MID_JUMP, true);
                serverLevel.playSound((Player)null, mob, this.getJumpSound.apply(mob), SoundSource.NEUTRAL, 1.0F, 1.0F);
            }

[pulsar dagger]

it's a short lived behavior pretty sure

[topaz nymph]

Yea, so i am not thinking that this is the expensive part here/

[zealous idol]

could easily been done by making that first loop lazy and choosing random positions instead of iterating in order

[pulsar dagger]

that would change behavior

very slightly but it would

[zealous idol]

how so?

[pulsar dagger]

they check a random pos in the tick, and remove it it's not valid

[topaz nymph]

The valid check is done in the start method, no?

[zealous idol]

i don't follow

they remove a pos from jumpCandidates?

[pulsar dagger]

yeah I'm looking at it closely, I'm not 100% sure whether that would change behavior or not

    @Override
    protected void tick(ServerLevel serverLevel, E mob, long l) {
        if (this.chosenJump.isPresent()) {
            if (l - this.prepareJumpStart >= 40L) {
                mob.setYRot(mob.yBodyRot);
                mob.setDiscardFriction(true);
                Vec3 vec3 = this.chosenJump.get().getJumpVector();
                double d = vec3.length();
                double e = d + mob.getJumpBoostPower();
                mob.setDeltaMovement(vec3.scale(e / d));
                mob.getBrain().setMemory(MemoryModuleType.LONG_JUMP_MID_JUMP, true);
                serverLevel.playSound((Player)null, mob, this.getJumpSound.apply(mob), SoundSource.NEUTRAL, 1.0F, 1.0F);
            }
        } else {
            --this.findJumpTries;
            Optional<LongJumpToRandomPos.PossibleJump> optional = WeightedRandom.getRandomItem(serverLevel.random, this.jumpCandidates);
            if (optional.isPresent()) {
                this.jumpCandidates.remove(optional.get());
                mob.getBrain().setMemory(MemoryModuleType.LOOK_TARGET, new BlockPosTracker(optional.get().getJumpTarget()));
                PathNavigation pathNavigation = mob.getNavigation();
                Path path = pathNavigation.createPath(optional.get().getJumpTarget(), 0, 8);
                if (path == null || !path.canReach()) {
                    this.chosenJump = optional;
                    this.prepareJumpStart = l;
                }
            }
        }

    }
``` this is tick

[topaz nymph]

and this is start

@Override
    protected void start(ServerLevel serverLevel, Mob mob, long l) {
        this.chosenJump = Optional.empty();
        this.findJumpTries = 20;
        this.jumpCandidates.clear();
        this.initialPosition = Optional.of(mob.position());
        BlockPos blockPos = mob.blockPosition();
        int i = blockPos.getX();
        int j = blockPos.getY();
        int k = blockPos.getZ();
        Iterable<BlockPos> iterable = BlockPos.betweenClosed(i - this.maxLongJumpWidth, j - this.maxLongJumpHeight, k - this.maxLongJumpWidth, i + this.maxLongJumpWidth, j + this.maxLongJumpHeight, k + this.maxLongJumpWidth);
        PathNavigation pathNavigation = mob.getNavigation();

        for(BlockPos blockPos2 : iterable) {
            double d = blockPos2.distSqr(blockPos);
            if ((i != blockPos2.getX() || k != blockPos2.getZ()) && pathNavigation.isStableDestination(blockPos2) && mob.getPathfindingMalus(WalkNodeEvaluator.getBlockPathTypeStatic(mob.level, blockPos2.mutable())) == 0.0F) {
                Optional<Vec3> optional = this.calculateOptimalJumpVector(mob, Vec3.atCenterOf(blockPos2));
                optional.ifPresent((vel) -> {
                    this.jumpCandidates.add(new LongJumpToRandomPos.PossibleJump(new BlockPos(blockPos2), vel, Mth.ceil(d)));
                });
            }
        }

    }

(the start is where the canidates are caculated)

[zealous idol]

er, what's start?

[pulsar dagger]

you already shared the start snippet I think

[topaz nymph]

That is the first time that the behavior is ran

[pulsar dagger]

well, the relevant part

[topaz nymph]

mhm

[zealous idol]

oh, start is part of the behavior. tick is the entity tick

[pulsar dagger]

tick is the behavior tick, sorry

[zealous idol]

oh

[topaz nymph]

Obfuscated mess

This is my profile, let me see if I can get a mapped file tho.

[pulsar dagger]

basically on tick it polls from the locations, and if it's valid will try to jump to it

[zealous idol]

uh yea^

[pulsar dagger]

on the next tick

and it stops once it jumps

so yeah, I think not selecting positions and removing at the start would slightly change behavior

but not in a noticeable way

[fervent lynx]

Optimized AI for Axolotls, Goats, Hoglins, Zoglins, Piglins, Piglin Brutes and Villagers.
1.18 changelog, clearly goats are quite optimized

[topaz nymph]

Yea so

I had a patch that implemented that

[pulsar dagger]

making that method lazy would be easiest way I think

[topaz nymph]

This was for attacking mobs basically

making a list a map, and reordering booleans to favor less expensive operations first

[fervent lynx]

btw lithium has a optimization for the jump stuff apparently: https://github.com/CaffeineMC/lithium-fabric/commit/fcbf706c259d13edf378e825a344b697056ccc9f

[topaz nymph]

oh that's interesting

[pulsar dagger]

I'm not convinced that's 100% no effect on behavior but I would bet you can't reasonably tell any difference

disclaimer have not looked super closely

[topaz nymph]

err are you not able to run "createMojMapPaperclipjar" directly?

[pulsar dagger]

thats not the jar your using

your running the server jar there

[topaz nymph]

Oh, it's generated elsewhere

ic.

Yea so

it defo does not like doing all those collision checks x)

[pulsar dagger]

even after adding the collision patch, geez

[topaz nymph]

🥴

[pulsar dagger]

almost got the whole alphabet there

like fr

[grave charm]

alllll the doubles

[topaz nymph]

all put in a nice for(int i = 65; i < 85; i += 5)

🙂

[grave charm]

there's gotta be a z later in the method

[topaz nymph]

I see a y

[grave charm]

oh that is the end

[pulsar dagger]

[topaz nymph]

yep

No z, darn.

[pulsar dagger]

Is it maybe possible to narrow the range of angles to test based on the distance from the goat

like with rougher math than they use I mean

ie slightly less optimal angle

maybe even hardcode some known values

or maybe precompute the angles for each position, relative to the goat?

[topaz nymph]

Well it's called in this

[topaz nymph]

Yea

[pulsar dagger]

shove that in a big static field

[topaz nymph]

I'd think it would be interesting to see the differences in the above optimization tho, because yea this is quite a mess x)

[pulsar dagger]

mojang was like

running this massive method 50 times each blockpos?

ship it

[topaz nymph]

🐐 goat go jump

[pulsar dagger]

precomputing would be hard though because collisions

yeah

big mess

[topaz nymph]

Yea just idle, they take a stupid ton

[burnt portal]

looks like similar issue, statcked baby chicken grow up cause server no response, not sure vanilla bug or not.

[topaz nymph]

That generally is a separate issue, this only applies to goats.

[dapper lotus]

er, wat

[burnt portal]

thread stuck at net.minecraft.world.level.CollisionGetter.findFreePosition(CollisionGetter.java:110)

[pulsar dagger]

[topaz nymph]

Can you show all logs?

[pulsar dagger]

I saw that method in CollisionGetter

and was like oh boy

this is called from mobs tick

it's new in 1.18, separate issue

[ancient sun]

is there an updated anti-xray config for 1.18 with deepslate ores and such?

[topaz nymph]

Ah

[pulsar dagger]

I believe the gist is updated

[half walrus]

Anti Xray configuration guide: https://gist.github.com/stonar96/ba18568bd91e5afd590e8038d14e245e

[feral spire]

@ancient sun ^

[pulsar dagger]

    default Optional<Vec3> findFreePosition(@Nullable Entity entity, VoxelShape shape, Vec3 target, double x, double y, double z) {
        if (shape.isEmpty()) {
            return Optional.empty();
        } else {
            AABB aABB = shape.bounds().inflate(x, y, z);
            VoxelShape voxelShape = StreamSupport.stream(this.getBlockCollisions(entity, aABB).spliterator(), false).filter((voxelShapex) -> {
                return this.getWorldBorder() == null || this.getWorldBorder().isWithinBounds(voxelShapex.bounds());
            }).flatMap((voxelShapex) -> {
                return voxelShapex.toAabbs().stream();
            }).map((aABBx) -> {
                return aABBx.inflate(x / 2.0D, y / 2.0D, z / 2.0D);
            }).map(Shapes::create).reduce(Shapes.empty(), Shapes::or);
            VoxelShape voxelShape2 = Shapes.join(shape, voxelShape, BooleanOp.ONLY_FIRST);
            return voxelShape2.closestPointTo(target);
        }
    }
``` ![pepegaroll](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/713887020786778223.webp?size=128 "pepegaroll")

[ancient sun]

that covers stuff like netherite too right

[topaz nymph]

Yay Minecraft!!

[topaz nymph]

It should, look in the config.

[ancient sun]

are the experimental builds usable

not stable usable

[pulsar dagger]

yes

[vapid prawn]

You know, if this wasn't Java that might actually be efficient

[ancient sun]

so with a reasonable expectations can i expect a playable experience

[burnt portal]

thread dump only

[vivid iron]

dump.txt by @burnt portal: https://paste.gg/56f6383dbc0c4f08abe876a148fcfe8a

[topaz nymph]

How so?

[vapid prawn]

Well, not algorithmically but yeah

[pulsar dagger]

yup

[vapid prawn]

But since this is Java someone should see how much faster it is to turn that in to normal loops

[pulsar dagger]

from refreshDimensions

synchec data update

exactly

[dapper lotus]

Update, 42 was bork somewhere iirc

[pulsar dagger]

yeah, this trace doesn't look like that though

all vanilla code

[ancient sun]

if my world is named world2, should the master key still be world-settings?

[topaz nymph]

What part of the language here slows it down I’m curious?

[polar quarry]

it sucks now tbh, huge cpu spike when joining in post 1.12.2 versions, breaking doesnt work in 1.17+

[pulsar dagger]

the issue is their collision code

but the streams don't help

I'm gonna try and make that method use leafs collision code

and remove the stream

[topaz nymph]

Yea Minecraft loves using streams in hot code

[vapid prawn]

Their collision code isn't that bad, iirc

Doesn't it just iterate through the blocks in an inefficient order?

[pulsar dagger]

they make everything a voxelshape

even things that just need aabbs

[vapid prawn]

But from a higher level the algorithm it uses makes sense

[dapper lotus]

and generally have 0 optimisation there

[vapid prawn]

Like, the big O for it probably looks good

[dapper lotus]

Like, there was no real "could I even exist within this" type check

at least iirc

[vapid prawn]

They're writing code like they're working on a spring app, basically

[topaz nymph]

Seems like it

Literally a joke, have they looked at their game in a profiler? There are some obvious places that instead paper has to fix themselves? It’s kinda funny.

[vapid prawn]

Fast Java, though, ends up looking uglier than slow C

And is a PITA to iterate on

[topaz nymph]

That’s true

[dapper lotus]

Part of the issue is that they don't really test at scale

Like, most of what mojang cares about is SP and "can it realm"

[vapid prawn]

Honestly I think at some point they stopped even testing with more than 1 person

When DB and Grum first joined they were at least sometimes doing like an office server or whatever to get some load

[dapper lotus]

I keep saying that I wish that they'd have like an hour or so a week where they fire up a server, get a few dozen people on it and see how it performs

[ancient sun]

how would i go about pulling an experimental build from the api

[polar quarry]

same way you do with any other build

[dapper lotus]

er, wat?

[polar quarry]

api doesnt discern stability types

[ancient sun]

like are there any special headers?

ok

[dapper lotus]

No

It's just yet another release

[vapid prawn]

At some point DB decided he'd rather focus on game design and Grum only writes in enterprise Java and Haskell pretending to be Java 😄

[ancient sun]

so just latest?

[polar quarry]

yep

[dapper lotus]

There is nothing special about 1.18, just a pretty banner on the site

[ancient sun]

ight

cool

[polar quarry]

dont autoupdate 1.18 builds, it will break at some point

[vapid prawn]

Fucking lenses

[ancient sun]

at what point is that point

(stupid question)

[vapid prawn]

If we knew they wouldn't break

[dapper lotus]

Yea, I mean, that's the joys with stuff like MC

[polar quarry]

who the uwu~ knows, it says experimental everywhere just asume its fragile

[ancient sun]

ight

[dapper lotus]

I love writing code and shit, but, sometimes it's like, I wanna toy with other stuff

[vapid prawn]

autoupdate is always a bad idea, just because they stop saying it's experimental doesn't mean they're telling the truth 😛

[ancient sun]

i just want to use an old plugin i wrote that used the adventure apis and im too lazy to port it to bukkit-platform

[dapper lotus]

Like, especially with MC, theres so many areas where it feels like it would be trivial to substantially improve random shit here and there with little thought

[vapid prawn]

It's always possible to have a build where an event doesn't work right so WG fails to block things or chests get wiped on chunk unload or mob spawning spews 10,000 creepers on a single block

[topaz nymph]

That’s how I felt on a rather large project I used to work on

I would always go in wanting to do one thing, only to have done a bunch of different little things.

[vapid prawn]

Like, in a month those kinds of builds could still happen

[topaz nymph]

It’s why I’m also enjoying contributing to paper rn since there is just so much more to do.

[vapid prawn]

Some testing happens for PRs but usually only focused on what the PR says its changing, not on whether the rest of the game still works

[polar quarry]

i firmly believe mojang doesn't care about small improvements. if we, random devs, take that path of "fix ur shit" we'll end up making stuff like optifine/sodium and that's just not a proper fix, the game is still broken

[topaz nymph]

(I Hope it ain’t getting spammy 🥴)

[topaz nymph]

Yea it’s hard, because there is so much.

[dapper lotus]

I still try to work on shit with paper but long gone are the days when me and aikar would be tag teaming updates

[topaz nymph]

What ever happened to aikar

[dapper lotus]

busy with work and shit

[vapid prawn]

You should never blindly update to a new paper build, always have backups

[topaz nymph]

Makes sense

[fierce hemlock]

updates are much bigger now I'd assume

[dapper lotus]

Think in part he just kinda burned out with all of the shit of mojang too

[vapid prawn]

Even build #308 could be broken

[vapid prawn]

Only because Paper has so many more patches

[topaz nymph]

Well I’m glad ur still powering through it

[dapper lotus]

Well, we've only gotten 3x the patch and more complexity as the game has gotten shitter

Never did I think that we'd be at the point where we pretty much needed to start rewriting entire systems

[vapid prawn]

Uh, you were at that point before the project existed

[topaz nymph]

What’s stopping them from just integrating some of papers major systems?

[vapid prawn]

That's why I quit 😛

[topaz nymph]

That literally change no behavior.

License messes?

[vapid prawn]

No, I helped trigger the license mess after getting burned out on maintaining a pile of junk on top of a pile of junk

[dapper lotus]

lawyers

[vapid prawn]

The license mess was the last straw though, not the reason I was done

[dapper lotus]

We've already told mojang that they're free to treat our patches as MIT and we're happy to sign on that

[topaz nymph]

But are they too afraid to deal with the legal side?

[vapid prawn]

Ah, profuctor optics is what I was thinking of earlier

[dapper lotus]

The lawyers don't wanna touch it, basically

[vapid prawn]

A lot of what Paper does is what Grum would consider lipstick on a pig

[dapper lotus]

and everything like that has to go through legal, basically

[vapid prawn]

He wants to replace those systems, not patch them up as-is

[dapper lotus]

Yea

[hazy nest]

Probably asked a thousand times, but is there a current time est on the full 1.18 release?

[dapper lotus]

There is no eta

[vapid prawn]

Even though as he replaces stuff it needs even more patching sometimes 😄

[dapper lotus]

piss off

[vapid prawn]

tbh like I just got done explaining to someone else there is no difference between these builds and any other paper builds

[topaz nymph]

It’s a shame because in the end it’s just upkeeping for you guys

[vapid prawn]

You should always have a backup, always be ready to roll back to and lose progress, and always test a build before you put it live

The only change is that builds that break your shit are somewhat more likely right now

[polar quarry]

what amaranth meant to say was you should auto-update, run java 8 and never keep backups. #yolo

[topaz nymph]

At least java 8 would stop you

[polar quarry]

it says "experimental" everywhere :( why cant people use common sense?

[fierce hemlock]

Then how does a hard fork intend on happening

does that mean just stop getting patches from spigot?

[dapper lotus]

that means what we drop spigot as an upstream and forget they exist and be happier

[vapid prawn]

Yeah, that means Paper updates everything on their own

[hexed flower]

That'd be nice

[polar quarry]

"nice"? that'd be excellent, outstanding, marvellous

[vapid prawn]

And then as they rewrite the entire API they also reimplement everything as mixins and eventually merge with Sponge

[fierce hemlock]

what does spigot do that's so bad?

[dapper lotus]

Don't give us ideas

[vapid prawn]

Hard fork 100% means your plugins will break

That's the whole point

So, it's not all rainbows 😛

[dapper lotus]

Spigot is a 1 man band where the lead basically generally gives 0 shit about the community and it's opinions, etc

[polar quarry]

i think everyone will stick to paper and drop the bukkit/spigot stuff lol

[dapper lotus]

stagnant API

[amber mica]

thats why it should wait until Hangar is ready so there is a place for paper plugins

[dapper lotus]

Muh legacy pl0gens > moving the API forward

etc

[polar quarry]

also see: bungeecord

[hexed flower]

Spigot is literally only still relevant because paper is binary compatible with it

[dapper lotus]

Only reason spigot is considering supporting custom biomes in the API is because they've got all of the shit ready to start bytecode hacking outdated plugins to still work

[vapid prawn]

(mostly)

[kindred basalt]

https://kennytv.eu/secretgraph/

[polar quarry]

wasnt there a page with a % of how many servers are paper vs others?

[swift zealot]

Should I just calm down my ocd about this ? every time I update it (this is a fresh download so 52) it's NEVER the latest version:)

INFO This server is running Paper version git-Paper-"c837002" (MC: 1.18) (Implementing API version 1.18-R0.1-SNAPSHOT) (Git: c837002)
INFO You are 6 version(s) behind
INFO Download the new version at: https://papermc.io/downloads
INFO Previous version: git-Paper-"a42917d" (MC: 1.18)```

[polar quarry]

you are 6 commits behind not 6 versions. thats the latest build

[vapid prawn]

iirc it's actually counting git commits or something

[topaz nymph]

It’s honestly terrible lol

[fierce hemlock]

why do they continue then?

hobby project?

[dapper lotus]

don't mention

We have theories but, er... 👼

[tender gale]

bStats

[polar quarry]

no it was https://minidigger.github.io/paperstats/#1.18

well, same dataset

[amber mica]

yeah bStats combines all versions

[vapid prawn]

I suspect Spigot continues because spite and money

[topaz nymph]

oh yea

[fierce hemlock]

what does it mean to make bytecode hacks to support custom plugins? why can't those just be patched in?

[topaz nymph]

He must get all donations

[polar quarry]

spigot gets paid??

ah

[vapid prawn]

The Bukkit project probably existed for an extra year due to not wanting to let Spigot "win"

[topaz nymph]

Legit modifying plugins byte code

If methods and such break, spigot fixes them!

[dapper lotus]

wa? the bytecode hacking modifies plugins as they load in order to try to mitigate the binary changes

[fierce hemlock]

is any of this in prod now?

[topaz nymph]

Yes

Because that’s how they work….?

[dapper lotus]

Rather than just promoting an environment where "Hey, shit moves forward, we might deprecate stuff here and there, be expected to need to update stuff"

[kindred basalt]

spigot's been doing bytecode manipulation on plugins since at least 1.13

[hexed flower]

Don't

[topaz nymph]

It is usually used when stuff like Minecraft renames materials, like GRASS_PATH -> DIRT_PATH

[swift zealot]

ok so it will just not show "You are running the latest" until devs are done tweaking it I assume?

[kindred basalt]

see: legacy (-1.12) plugins

[fierce hemlock]

where can I find the source for this bytecode manipulation, im curious

[dapper lotus]

instead bukkit somewhat created and spigot cemented an environment where deprecating API is literally last resort

[topaz nymph]

Renames the constants…. At runtime….

[topaz nymph]

Spigot stash

[dapper lotus]

It will show you're running the latest version when you are, in fact, running the latest version

[polar quarry]

yep. also the commits are going to keep happening and you will never be in the true latest version

[hexed flower]

This was just explained. It counts how many commits there's been since the jar you're running was built.

[topaz nymph]

And then removing it 10 years later x)

[vapid prawn]

Bukkit used to break the API all the time right up until the version we took over

[weary ivy]

So revolutionary!

[topaz nymph]

What ever happened? 😩

[fierce hemlock]

here? https://hub.spigotmc.org/stash/projects/SPIGOT/repos/spigot/browse

[dapper lotus]

Yea, I mean, bukkit was more "we shouldn't break shit for the sake of it"

Which, I salute

[polar quarry]

you can build all commits from git master if you want latest latest

[dapper lotus]

spigot took that to mean, "We shouldn't break stuff, eeever"

[vapid prawn]

But EvilSeph and Wolv wanted API stability and we figured it wouldn't our place to change shit just because we didn't like it since we didn't start the project

[dapper lotus]

and thats where you get shit like the 1.13 update where md yeeted an entire API right on release more or less

[vapid prawn]

Wolv was the first one do to bytecode fuckery to maintain compatibility

[weary ivy]

Isn't spigot and bukkit both maintained by spigot?

[vapid prawn]

He just did it to the server

[polar quarry]

ye

[dapper lotus]

"no"

Spigot maintains a fork of bukkit/craftbukkit

[swift zealot]

@hexed flower @polar quarry
I'll just not type /version for a while.. nah I'm not THAT freak I'll let devs do it they're better than me :)

thanks for explaining :)

[vapid prawn]

Bukkit as a project is dead

[dapper lotus]

they don't own the bukkit/craftbukkit project in any capacity

[vapid prawn]

Spigot has a thing they call Bukkit that is separate still for some reason

[topaz nymph]

Wasn’t that all about the fun legal drama

[dapper lotus]

No?

[weary ivy]

Im confused

[dapper lotus]

bukkit called it quits before all of that drama

[vapid prawn]

Bukkit as a project was going to be dead either way, tbh

[topaz nymph]

Ah,

It’s interesting because it’s still upkept regardless…

[vapid prawn]

Even without the legal drama we all quit and DB and Grum weren't going to maintain it longterm

They might have done a 1.8 release (I kind of doubt it though) but after that it would have died anyway

[topaz nymph]

Interesting, yea I haven’t rly been here for long… at least for majority of the time I was a clueless mc player using the vanilla server.

[vapid prawn]

It's not like md5 would give up control over his own platform and go just be a random dev working on a Curse and Mojang owned project where all he could do is git commits and forum posts

And the rest of the community that tried to pick up the pieces decided pretty much right away to do a radical new API instead of trying to make something Bukkit compatible or something familiar to Bukkit plugin devs

[topaz nymph]

So where were you situated here? As a spigot maintainer or what here? I’m curious

[vapid prawn]

I was, for most of the time between 1.3 and 1.8, the person doing most of the work on CraftBukkit

[dry iron]

Hey I helped 😦

[topaz nymph]

Ahh

[dry iron]

🤣

[topaz nymph]

That’s crazy y’all still stick around here!!

[vapid prawn]

I wasn't alone and for a release I disappeared and other people took over

[dapper lotus]

part of what I like about having a bigger team, lol

[vapid prawn]

But I was probably doing about half of it

[dapper lotus]

Like, it wasn't too long ago that updates where basically a tag team between me and whomever else was around, usually aikar and Z would chip in here and there

But, that was when we could go through all the patches in 2 days, with spigots mappings

[dry iron]

Can confirm amaranth would spend unreasonable amounts of time working.

[west bone]

Yo electron, paper 1.18 is running on my server with 40 ppl on perfect

[polar quarry]

ok

[topaz nymph]

I’m glad it’s working well for ya 😄

[polar quarry]

guys do you get donations

is the opencollective enough to pay for server rent and stuff?

[topaz nymph]

I mean a lot goes to paper itself and to its maintainers individually

[polar quarry]

nice that's what i want to hear

[vapid prawn]

The project one I don't think any goes to individuals

[topaz nymph]

Well I mean

Via sponsors

[vapid prawn]

It's for hosting costs and otherwise just pools waiting for a use if there is any extra

Some of the devs are getting money directly to them via github sponsors or twitch streams or paypal or whatever though, yeah

[amber mica]

You can actually see the costs on opencollective, its very transparent

[vapid prawn]

I think the only people making enough to live on though are md5 and people working at hypixel and such

Dunno about md5 these days but I assume so since the project is still going

[topaz nymph]

Crazy how hypixel is such the monopoly over all lol

Using what, some very old spigot base?

Pretty much reworked I’m guessing

[vapid prawn]

iirc they're based on MC 1.6 for most of their stuff

[pulsar dagger]

no

[vapid prawn]

Dunno if that started life as CB, CB++, Spigot, or what

[pulsar dagger]

this is correct

[vapid prawn]

afaik their SMP (realms) stuff is running the latest versions though

I imagine some of the games run newer versions than others too

[topaz nymph]

I see server providers sponsoring some individual maintainers, ig that messed me up.

[vapid prawn]

iirc some of their games you need 1.12+ to play so probably that version

[amber mica]

btw, where is the "comment" option on opencollective? the page says I should enter my discord name in a comment, but there was none :I

[pulsar dagger]

contact aurora

[amber mica]

alright, gonna do that tomorrow

[pulsar dagger]

they are in the eu, so maybe leave them a dm now

or I think we have mod mail somewhere

[half walrus]

__There Is No ETA__

Updates to Paper do not have any sort of estimate for when they release, ever. Any and all updates will arrive when they are ready, and the only thing to do is wait for them patiently along with everyone else.

ETA means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[amber mica]

im in EU as well and its 4am, thats why I thought I wait

[pulsar dagger]

oh ic

[proud zenith]

s a m e

i should get to bed

in 5hrs I need to be on a train

[dapper lotus]

it's all about coffee naps

Well, I mean, Ive heard that they're great but coffee doesn't work for me \o/

[amber mica]

online uni, so no sleep needed lol

[topaz nymph]

For real

[polar quarry]

fuck i never did my homework

thanks for reminding me

[dapper lotus]

I gotta see if I can get diagnosed and maybe see if I can et some aderall or something and see if that works

aderall nap 😄

[topaz nymph]

It was so nice just being able to get up and say “I’m at school now!”

[dapper lotus]

I lived a 5 minute walk to uni, tops

I can count the number of times I was on time on my hands that year

[topaz nymph]

Lmao

[proud zenith]

Same, either offline or online 5 min max

[potent quail]

Any clue why DataResult and Codec under com.mojang.datafixers and com.mojang.seralization would be not found when compiling with maven? I've included the minecraft-libraries dependency in POM but no luck

[dapper lotus]

We don't support maven, basically

[pulsar dagger]

you would have the same issue with spigot

you're best off using paperweight userdev

[half walrus]

https://github.com/jpenilla/paperweight-test-plugin

[pulsar dagger]

otherwise have fun manually adding libraries

and idk how you're gonna remap

I guess running tiny remapper manually could work

[potent quail]

is there any good resources to switch from maven to gradle? I'm not massively in the know with maven or gradle but heres to learning right

[dapper lotus]

gradle has some docs

[pulsar dagger]

If you're doing it just for internals, see the link I shared for a basic setup, but yeah gradle docs are pretty decent for basic stuff

[dapper lotus]

for the most part, for a simple project, the gradle init auto convert stuff does a fairly decent job

[solemn lark]

anyone know why my debian 10 server keeps downgrading java from 17 to 16 and shutting off the mc server?

im following paper tutorial for java 17

[dapper lotus]

I mean

We're not magicians, so, no, we can't tell you why

[burnt portal]

auto update overwrite binary?

[solemn lark]

?? k just wondering lol

[dapper lotus]

don't mention

the thing won't downgrade java itself

[long edge]

and shutting off the mc server
what do you get in your logs when it shuts off?

[dapper lotus]

unless you just mean it's defaulting to an older version

[solemn lark]

maybe

[dapper lotus]

in which case, run update-java-alternatives

[quasi panther]

Linux loads binaries into memory, you can delete files that are still running and they won't stop running

[dapper lotus]

otherwise, when installing, make sure to read what it says it's gonna do, especially with apt

[quasi panther]

or rather, it doesn't protect against deletion/overwrite for running binaries

[solemn lark]

ok

its defaulting back to java 16 after a few hours of updating to 17

[dapper lotus]

er

[solemn lark]

korb@mc-server:~/mc-server$ java -version
openjdk version "17.0.1" 2021-10-19 LTS

[dapper lotus]

I mean, that would maybe suggest you had some cron or timer task thing to auto upgrade

[solemn lark]

dont have crontabs at all

ill do some more troubleshooting tomorrow, was just coming here to see if anyone else has had this issues

[dapper lotus]

well, if packages where changed, it'll be in the dpkg/apt logs

some distros have timers setup to auto install security updates

try running apt dist-upgrade and seeing what it says

[solemn lark]

updated 270mb of stuff

[peak pulsar]

anyone have an idea? is there a guide or something, how to fix "Paper Async Chunk Task Thread ERROR"?

[dapper lotus]

I mean, we can't comment with 0 info

You failed to provide logs or info on what you even screwed with

[peak pulsar]

i can post it, its very long but all the same case i think, at first something like :

[Paper Async Chunk Task Thread #1/ERROR]: Could not de-serialize chunk data for task: Chunk task: class:com.destroystokyo.paper.io.chunk.ChunkLoadTask, for world 'world_nether', (-23,-17), hashcode:52284421, priority: -1
java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: Index -3 out of bounds for length 18
at net.minecraft.world.level.chunk.storage.ChunkSerializer.loadChunk(ChunkSerializer.java:228) ~[?:?]
at com.destroystokyo.paper.io.chunk.ChunkLoadTask.executeTask(ChunkLoadTask.java:106) ~[paper-1.18.jar:git-Paper-52]
at com.destroystokyo.paper.io.chunk.ChunkLoadTask.run(ChunkLoadTask.java:38) ~[paper-1.18.jar:git-Paper-52]
at com.destroystokyo.paper.io.QueueExecutorThread.pollTasks(QueueExecutorThread.java:105) ~[paper-1.18.jar:git-Paper-52]
at com.destroystokyo.paper.io.QueueExecutorThread.run(QueueExecutorThread.java:38) ~[paper-1.18.jar:git-Paper-52]

and then there is something like:

[Paper Async Chunk Task Thread #0/ERROR]: Could not de-serialize chunk data for task: Chunk task: class:com.destroystokyo.paper.io.chunk.ChunkLoadTask, for world 'world_nether', (13,-7), hashcode:1970547576, priority: -1
java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: null

i also can post whole log, but there are 15k lines

[sharp hinge]

When this happened to me many moons ago, it was because there were over 1 million llama spit entities in the chunk. in the end i had to delete the region files. it would crash the server if anyone entered the chunk.

[dapper lotus]

Your chunk is busted

[clever plinth]

First time running on 1.18 and had my server shut off randomly 3 times. No error codes. No nothing. Any idea or is this known?

[dapper lotus]

That error specifially kinda implies that you changed the world height or something and that's basically unsupported

[peak pulsar]

okay, could i change it back in level.dat?

[dapper lotus]

you'd revert whatever you messed with in there

but, any gone chunk is gone, and no idea what it will do with the chunks generated since then

[peak pulsar]

i could paste backuped chunks after i tried to fix level.dat .... the whole story starts with my first try to import my old 1.17 nether, but i got some problems with bed/water/sunrise settings in nether dimension, also creation of portals was different location and scale .. so now i created a whole new one with same seed, but changed DIM1 folder with the old one from 1.17 -> now nether bed/water/sunrise settings are ok, but chunks are not detected correctly

[peak pulsar]

we know something about change of nether height between 1.17 and 1.18 or something like that?

[amber mica]

not really possible to say anything without an error. maybe the system shutting it down because its out of memory?
also, check the crash-reports folder as well

[amber mica]

nothing changed there, nether still has the bedrock ceiling at y=128 (but is 256 tall in total)

[peak pulsar]

okay so there must be some other change which causes that chunk error

[amber mica]

maybe you messed up something while copying files around? I would recommend restoring from a backup and then doing it again and then testing after every step if everything looks alright

if you changed the world height you could also try changing it to the correct value again, look at the chunk data (NBTExplorer), count how many sections are in there and then calculate the height the server expects from that. that might work

[peak pulsar]

okay thank you for your help guys, ill try to compare those 2 at every setting ... till yet, i only checket the WorldGen Part, but may there are some other important points that could cause those chunk errors

[amber mica]

is there a working minecraft:aether_test dimension datapack? I don't think the server likes loading worlds with dimensions that don't exist

[peak pulsar]

in 1.17 there was

[dapper lotus]

upgrading with data packs which provide custom biomes, etc, do not support server upgrades

[peak pulsar]

if i fix this name to world_nether, i also get chunk error

[dapper lotus]

made slightly better in 1.18, but, coming from 1.17 won't work

[amber mica]

is vanilla able to upgrade worlds with datapacks?

[dapper lotus]

No

[amber mica]

well, nice one mojang

[dapper lotus]

Why do you think mojang had the warning saying that you wouldn't be able to upgrade if you had the C&C pack

[amber mica]

yeah, but wasn't that about height datapacks only? or all world gen?

[dapper lotus]

custom biomes, etc

in fact, if you used custom biomes with spigots API there is a chance it could perma damage your worlds biomes

[amber mica]

then that world is probably lost. you could try using MCASelector to copy the chunks out of it and to replace the custom biomes with vanilla biomes (not sure if it can do that, maybe with the filter feature)

[peak pulsar]

you think WanderingTraderId: 4Integers with -1509730306 -8305610 -1302592036 -1743011540 in it is very important in level.dat? 😬

[amber mica]

no, it just saves what the trader is doing

[peak pulsar]

good to know, i would give it a try if i dont get it fixed another way

[dark wigeon]

headless java?

[dapper lotus]

It's not that it couldn't find the class, it's that it bleew up tryna init it

the fact that that's stems from another error, er

It was tryna log an error already in pollTasks

[pulsar dagger]

this is with paper or a fork

[void viper]

Is anyone recognising bugs from changing 1.17 -> 1.18

[graceful ledge]

only loss of stability

[rare orchid]

send change view distance packet to the player
https://wiki.vg/Protocol#Update_View_Distance
however it might cause issues when the player moves too far away

[graceful ledge]

random crashes etc etc

[peak pulsar]

is it ok to use --forceUpgrade --eraseCache if there is rain everywhere in water/ungerground/houses/caves?

ive heard many times not to use forceUpgrade on paper

[hexed flower]

Yeah, don't use it

It's unnecessary

[peak pulsar]

any other idea how i could fix rain problem

[peak pulsar]

what about --eraseCache .. could this fix rain issue? or is it also dangerous to use with paper .. or unnecessary

[dapper lotus]

if the heightmap/light data stuff is borked, yes

but, many times that's plugins screwing with data sent to the client

[peak pulsar]

here is example of my rain/snow indoor problem ._.

i only have this in one dimension, normal overworld is ok

[feral spire]

was the build ever being pasted from a schematic

or with datapack before?

[peak pulsar]

most times i import my old overworld/nether the way, that i create a custom dimension(data pack) with overworld or nether settings, and paste the dimension data into dimension folder

cause those custom dimensions functions doesnt seem to work on paper 1.18 i try it with settings in level.dat

got many problems with nether and end, but the only known problem with my second overworld it this rain going through everything in some spots

[feral spire]

yeah you will need to do that forceupgrade thingy but only do it with a backup

[peak pulsar]

okay thanks, ill try - ill have to do it with whole server, cant do it for only one selected dimension right? i backup everything ;-;

if i destroy my server that way, would i note it early at next startup? 😅

its doing something .. sometimes ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException:null but its also going through many chunks

[peak pulsar]

still rain everywhere, but i think it didnt break anything

[deft fog]

Hey! Is it safe to use Paper for my server right now?

#52

[pastel mortar]

it works fine for me

no crashes with about 8 players

[sonic arch]

it’s safe if you wear your mask

[deft fog]

What? Mask?

What do you mean, sorry 😅

[deft fog]

Alright, thanks.

[sonic arch]

jk

[deft fog]

Next question. Who knows under what update number 1.17 became the stable version and the red warning sign disappeared?

[feral spire]

No there is no eta

Version number doesn’t have any relation to how stable they are

It’s just how many changes are made and pushed

[deft fog]

No, I mean, when did this red sign with the 1.17 warning disappear?

[verbal sand]

typo?

[deft fog]

No

[inner crypt]

It did never exist for 1.17 fwiw

It's original!

[deft fog]

I just changed in the page code. I thought there was a similar warning sign for 1.17.

[deft fog]

Oh, okay.

[inner crypt]

Yes we put out warnings for 1.17 too

We always do that for earlier builds because we don't know how stable it is

Once we think enough people tested it and nothing came up we will remove the warning

But you can run paper 1.18 without any issues, just be careful and take automatic backups

[verbal sand]

yeah 1.18 isn't that stable imo

server stopped responding for 41 seconds

[inner crypt]

Timings?

That seems like a plugin issue

[rocky knot]

It is quite stable for me :/

[verbal sand]

probably is

high ram usage

[deft fog]

Thanks a lot for the explanation, but I still haven't found out when did you remove the red warning sign for 1.17? At least approximately after what number it was.

[rocky knot]

Well I dont think this matters cause time for a "stable" version is different every time :)

[half walrus]

__There Is No ETA__

Updates to Paper do not have any sort of estimate for when they release, ever. Any and all updates will arrive when they are ready, and the only thing to do is wait for them patiently along with everyone else.

ETA means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[deft fog]

Regardless, I would still like to know this.

[feral spire]

Then spend your own time looking through builds on gh

Whatever is happened on June 26th will be the one

[deft fog]

Thought it wasn’t written in assemblies, sorry.

Thanks.

[feral spire]

Scrolling through announcement

Doesn’t take that much effort for odd questions like that

It’s still asking for eta and is annoying

So it will be nice if you stop pushing it