Ministers of Justice
#politics
near glen
plush crypt
might it perhaps be because it isnt a presidential election and didnt go to great lengths?
near glen
Most likely because missinformation wasn't such an issue before and twitter didn't had policies yet?
You can't just dig out a 3 year old tweet and try to proof that your idol is treated unfair
Also, consider volume, I would assume she didn't tweet 20 tweets per hour of stuff like that
fast flame
Or maybe it’s because it is pretty widely known that Russia interfered in the election
And you can’t even tell me that that’s fake because the entire senate intelligence committee unanimously agreed that they did.
mystic ermine
But, don't worry guys, the election system is safe
plush crypt
why would she wait over 6 months to tweet it
fast flame
It was likely at the peak of all the Russia investigations
plush crypt
hmm fair
i cant say i know much abt it, but everyone agrees that russia/cambridge analytica/someone somewhere had a large foot in the game
near glen
It's when the general public learned about social media troll bots
fast flame
Yeah it revolves around a troll farm in St petersburg that was supposedly hired by or is at least associated with the Kremlin that launched an online crusade against Clinton
weary obsidian
There's a difference in Pelosis tweet though, hers was about the fact that many Americans were fed misinformation and swayed their legally cast ballot that they may have leaned towards Clinton otherwise had they not fell for the misinformation. But, here we are they were fed 4 more years of bullshit and those people fell deeper into an alternative facts reality.
Trumps is all conspiracy that has no evidence more fairy tales
The fact Russian spread deliberate misinformation in the 2016 campaign to encourage votes for Trump is hard facts
Only a delusional person would dispute that who's living in Trump alternate reality
foggy fern
fast flame
I don’t think misinformation is the right word. Right-wing propaganda is more fitting.
foggy fern
...look at the whole thread
That's a well known person and shows large crowds following their chants and holding up signs and such
They can overlook that, for now
They are primarily white supremacists, they'll get rid of the Jews later
A whole bunch of different white supremacist groups showed up as a false flag?
These are the people who organized this event, afaik
Proud boys and such
Seems like most of the attendees were proud boys
You think DC has that many white supremacists ready to just pop out of the woodwork? They've been organizing this for weeks
Okay, maybe only for like a week
The crowd that showed up like 2 days after election day when it was clear Biden won was bigger than this
Most of the area are Biden supporters (vast majority) and can just show up on a whim
USA Today suggests most of the counter protesters were DC locals
Sounds like it was mostly locals trying to keep the red hats out of Black Lives Matter plaza
Ah, but of course it got worse after dark
Saturday night, a group of several dozen people – many wearing all black – moved through the streets, targeting anyone in Trump attire.
Those are the people just there to fight, it really does look like all the daytime stuff was small groups of DC locals trolling with signs or keeping them away from one area
McEnany said there were more than 1 million people, Trump said there were hundreds of thousands, journalists actually there said tens of thousands
Still bigger than I expected
restive seal
Are you now casting doubt on estimated event sizes
foggy fern
Another interesting thread https://twitter.com/1misanthrophile/status/1327779926263672832
Yeah, recognized her
She's usually covering Portland stuff
Oregon seems to be where most of the organized white nationalists are from too
Until like the last 5 seconds I was like "yeah, not seeing a problem here, dude was about to swing on that woman"
That sucker punch and kick to the head though...
No he wasn't, he had his fist up and was walking toward someone
Like I said, that last 5 seconds though...
10 seconds, whatever, I wasn't counting 😛
"arguing"
It's not legal to take the first swing but if you raise your fist at someone you should expect it to happen
I do wish the people trying to break it up had been more successful
shut vine
Taking the first swing would be considered assault and against the law. Kicking him in the head while he's down is aggravated assault.
foggy fern
I don't agree with the message in the tweet but the video shows how his involvement in all this started
James it's almost like you ignored the part where I said taking the first swing is against the law
foggy fern
Doesn't change the fact that if you come at me with a fist up I'm either going to tackle you, punch you, or run away 😛
shut vine
Yeah which is fine, you just have to be able to prove self defense in that situation is all.
He looks like he instigated it.
Also yeah I just misread what you said Ama.
foggy fern
Some dude hit another dude, he involved himself in it, got in a bit of a fight of his own, then got sucker punched while walking away
I don't think he should have been sucker punched he just isn't as blameless as people are portraying him
shut vine
I agree. Kicking someone in the head while they're on the ground is aggravated assault, which is a felony which carries a maximum of 20 years jail.
You can't look at these things as black and white though, he did wrong, some of them did wrong.
foggy fern
Most of the videos of actual fighting are like that
That's why I was linking to videos involving journalists or just ones showing the kinds of people who showed up
shut vine
I think the kicking in the head was insurmountably more serious than anything he did though.
foggy fern
The fighting ones are almost always a random clip of a complex interaction where everyone fucked up
shut vine
Also don't particularly think he represents any group of people, nor do they. They're representing themselves.
Saying because x is aligned with y, all of the people aligned with y are z is logically deficient.
shut vine
Don't get it
foggy fern
Oh I didn't even realize the old dude was trying to go after the guy with the megaphone before someone else hit him, he wasn't trying to defend them from attack, that's the person he chases into the crowd
elder portal
Those thousand people are still idiots, and you would be, too
I've never skipped Thanksgiving dinner before. I would be very sad to do so this year
But it may be necessary
We will see
restive seal
Depends on the size of your thanksgiving event. If it's you and like two other people, great! If not... maybe time to make your own.
elder portal
Those people celebrating are still, by far, less idiotic than your average Trump rally goer
Least they wore masks
Would be six of us in total
For Thanksgiving
plush crypt
six is fine as long as you all know youre all good
elder portal
I'm hoping so, but hey
problem is we're one of the hottest areas in the country
"democratic-created virus" my ass, this virus gives no fucks about your politics. lol
can't believe Trump touted that bullshit
.. actually, I can. Sadly.
anyway, we're on the fence about visiting my parent's for the holidays. If things get any worse I'm calling it and just ordering in
I can't be arsed to try to screw with the oven and figure out why it won't heat past 250F (121.11C)
might be a bit of a depressing Thanksgiving, but at least we won't be putting lives at risk
but hopefully things get better before then. We'll see
plush crypt
i dunno if itd be more depressing or better, but perhaps call eachother? google duo/zoom/etc would work
elder portal
we do fairly often, yeah
not a bad idea
I've been trying to get my classes finished up, and the end of the semester is only.. What, four weeks away? With one week of break yet
I'm so exhausted
not much of a break if the week after is finals and then it's all over
could have used that week of break a while ago. I'm 10 miles and a month beyond just fucking done
my Security+ expires by the EOD today as well. Still need to finish that
and need more hours with my internship, along with actually doing the coursework for it
really need to finish that project, too. Really desperately need the extra money, I don't have enough to eat any more
but the newbies at the makerspace need to be trained, as well. If I don't pass off the knowledge everything I built is going to fall apart
mmm, I just wanna go to bed. lol
one week until a paycheck and I can save for my food again 😄
and this CE for the Sec+ isn't that bad so far
unrelated, but more on topic: I love that Kayleigh McEnany tweeted earlier today about how she's excited about a Trump supporter gathering (and greatly exaggerated the numbers of it) and trashed the Biden gathering for being a superspreader event
the latter was a week or three ago
hypocracy at its finest
in the same vein, Trump called out Biden for celebrating a victory before "indipendant third-parties verified the results" (hello? What is the AP, then?) a week or two after declaring himself the winner mid-election
multiple times
(I believe Trump RT'd that one, he may not have said the words himself but he put it on blast)
restive seal
Ordered cheap webcams for elderly family for zoomsgiving/thankszooming.
near glen
since we in lockdown right now, chance are I can actually see grandma in person for xmas
shy gulch
my family is still having our yearly 30 people thanksgiving and chrismas dinner
we don't care about all this political crap
near glen
this is not political, lol
its called science
or more specifically, virology
such gatherings are thankfully forbidden here right now
tough cedar
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1327956491056279552 oh man he admitted biden won
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1327979630477922304 oop nevermind
near glen
I like how its "he", not biden or mr president elect
undone quiver
k
weary obsidian
Right still trying to associate the Russia narrative with this election lol
Conservatives need more brain cells, they need to practice their label more and conserve their intelligence
sweet canyon
Just came across this. http://loser.com/
foggy fern
near glen
Yeah in america corona is political
sacred kelp
trymp is a idot
restive seal
Despite experiencing symptoms, the person worked at the care home for two days before seeking a Covid-19 test.
This individual reported symptoms of Covid-19 one week after attending the ceremony. Despite this, the person worked daily 8-hour shifts in two separate correctional facility units while symptomatic.
Infecting people with a deadly virus to own the libs.
near glen
Well, this is caused by a bad health system were you can't afford to take sick leave and get tested
restive seal
Sure is 😦
loud flax
trump is human, and humans are idiots, let's not forget the real problem here
so how to less idiot is the real question
i agree 2020 is just a whole lot of nonsense, and all our worse traits come out, we need a reckoning 😭
mystic ermine
#asteroid2020
white wing
I guess we could use a WWIII
foggy fern
Someone must have explained to him the recount in GA wouldn't help him because now he's saying that's also rigged and not a real recount
weary obsidian
Boy the next 7 to 14 days is going to be lovely for these people.....
https://twitter.com/RyanAFournier/status/1327692815787290629
feral blade
lolwhat ...
weary obsidian
man I just cant get this fuckheads broken brain, to say he loves the military, but to really hate the military so much
If trump refuses to leave, man ohman I hope we get a picture of the military or SS arresting him and forcefully removing him
fast flame
Yeah I wanna see his ass dragged out of the WH by 2 marines
weary obsidian
while throwing a tantrum and his hair going wild
oh man what if Russia reveals w/e dirt they have on Trump now hes not in power?
tough cedar
some? lol i thought it was unanimous
i mean i'd say the logical conclusion to make if you're being unanimously opposed by your military leaders of the most powerful country in the world you're probably wrong
yea, and now we can't leave because of what we did
it'll just screw everything up
wasted all those american lives to not even finish what was started in 2003
are our military leaders democrats?
ok are our military leaders democrats then
what do the democrats have to do with this?
i mentioned military leaders, you mentioned democrats
so are our military leaders democrats?
because they oppose trump leaving the middle east?
it's not a win if the region becomes more destabilized as a result of us leaving
where??? all i see is the military leaders
so are the military leaders that say we should leave democrats?
that's what i'm asking you
are the senior military officials in the united states democrats yes or no
ok? i can't read his mind lol
idk what his stance on the middle east has been for the past 17 years
ok, so why is that a bad thing?
ok, do you believe dems shouldn't listen to expert opinions then?
that sounds like a conspiracy to me
ok source it from a reputable news source then
that if we leave the military gets less money
that senior military officials have a vested interest in keeping us in the middle east
becaause they can just spend the money on something else?
industry that also directly fuels the american economy
because things that involve the american military are generally made in the USA
really i want to know how dems being for leaving the middle east but when the military says we shouldn't is incompatible
and not because of expert opinions?
ok so do you believe the middle east is stable enough for us to leave?
i mean the npr article says attacks have gone up 50% lately
though it also says The withdrawal will likely have little effect on the ground, Bowman reported, since U.S. forces will still be training elements of the Afghan military. U.S. airstrikes against Taliban forces will also continue since forces fly out of Kuwait and other countries in the region.
so maybe the ground presence doesn't matter as much
if the jets just keep bombing the taliban
¯_(ツ)_/¯
dunno i'm not a military expert
that's way above my education level
that's why you generally try to trust the people smarter than you
because they might know something you don't or have information you don't
white wing
The problem is see is the gurrella warfare. No one so far has been able to win against. As far as I can tell the best way to fight it is probably the least moral way. It would essentially involve annexing an area (like a city), changing local education, while also funneling troops in to protect the said area to increase investment. But this would all require a lot of manpower, money, and it would anger the international community.
But on simpler terms I agree with imaBASKET, you don't trust people in power, you do the complete opposite and suspect their every move.
weary obsidian
@autumn lotus im not opposed to leaving the middle east, im opposed to Mr Bone Spur who has no experience in the military ignoring the EXPERTS opinion. If we dont utilize our expertise, we lose a major element of our strength.
sick walrus
damn basket just dropped a truth bomb
fast flame
i think we can all agree that the US should probably move out of the middle east. we've been there for far too long. Aikar is right, tho, in that that decision should not be made without the advice of military leaders. trump has proved time and time again that he doesnt know how foreign policy and military logisitcs work so he should be listening to the generals rather than pushing them away and getting career officials fired.
tough cedar
yea, when you boil everything down to "well they're just acting in their own interest" it's quite easy to dismiss them
sick walrus
they are acting in their own interest though
tough cedar
okay
fast flame
who, the military officials?
tough cedar
and i can say trump is just acting in his own interest to try and get a "win"
and i'd be just as right as you
fast flame
they want the status quo to be kept
i dont understand this argument. how is this bad? we were in a good place in 2016 but people wanted to buck the status quo and look where it got us.
sick walrus
who bucked the status quo
these problems have always existed
u just didn't see them
mystic ermine
The entire thing is broken af over here
Go to school! Okay!
Go to work! Okay!
Use public transport where you're hardly able to be 2m from annybody! Okay!
Go stand in your mates yard and talk to him? WE'RE CALLING THE POLICE
near glen
Do you need to wear masks in school halls, work and public transportation?
mystic ermine
yes, but masks are useless when you're all so close together
So, it's basically, public transport is dumb, and, students basically being expected to pretty much not even interact with one another is such a super awesome thing, but, is pretty much besides the point
foggy fern
We've turned Afghanistan back over to the Taliban
So the result of 17 years of war is nothing changes
brisk cradle
Ah yes, it continues.
The GOP is butthurt because they did not win Georgia this time around.
Meanwhile in Georgia: https://www.ajc.com/politics/georgia-recount-uncovers-2600-new-votes-in-presidential-race/I75NSPYYGNF43HQZBPYKJWJ5MA/
Yes, a GOP county fucked up big time and didn't record 2,600 votes, a good chunk of which were for the president. Still not enough to overturn Biden's lead.
Georgia's recount is anticipated to be completed tomorrow
shut vine
The problem with the "Military Experts" is they all seem to be slaves to the military industrial complex and just want to war. If CIC wants to withdraw their legal job is to come up with a plan to facilitate that safely. Any other choice is mutiny.
I suppose saying why we shouldn't, then doing as ordered. It's not CIC's job to decide on every particular of a militaries actions doing an operational withdrawal. They give him options based on their expertise, and he picks the options.
brisk cradle
shut vine
The red color looks the most dangerous
plush crypt
?warn @shy gulch Ghost pinging is truly not appreciated.
red mountainBOT
Carl Marks#5571 has been warned. || Ghost pinging is truly not appreciated.
plush crypt
?ban @shy gulch troll
red mountainBOT
Carl Marks#5571 was banned | troll
sick walrus
my friend carlos marks
weary obsidian
sigh, and now republicans are trying to steal the election in michigan
oh good looks like secretary of state is not a trumper, so should derail their attempt
ah shit its another 2/2 in state level also
if they do this, hello civil war
shut vine
Think certain counties were refusing to certify the results in Michigan right?
weary obsidian
2 republicans refused to certify county detroit is in.
even though the results were extremely biden
shut vine
Well that may pave the way to the House or Senate not certifying the results. If either house of Congress doesn't certify them you're headed for a contingent election is my understanding.
fast flame
that would be a very extreme outcome. this is nothing more than 2 dipshits obstructing democracy. not even mcconnell would do something like not certifying the results of an election.
weary obsidian
So if dems really were going to be committing fraud, why in the hell would they do it in a county they already win super easily?
Republican logic I tell you
I wish Twitter would stop being soft on Trump and instead write under his tweets "This post is not true and is trying to deceive you.", and stop showing them in peoples feeds
But soon Trump can be banned so I guess just gotta suck it up till then
fast flame
Agreed. “Highly disputed” could be put under every single tweet that he sends and still be accurate.
weary obsidian
Twitter should just implement a strike system on world leaders and make them lose immunity if they pull a Trump
You have to delete the tweet or take a strike if flagged
stable sable
the patriot act and the freedom act of 2015 were the worst disasters to happen in our country, short of the alien and sedition acts
fast flame
They aren’t great that’s for sure but comparing them to alien and sedition is too much
stable sable
it let government agencies freely spy on citizens, opened up opportunities to backdoor into many different american tech companies
also transfered much power to the president
fast flame
I know what they did...
stable sable
spying is worse than the suppression of opinions
just because its so much more invisible
than outright banning oposition
people got rid of the alien and sedition acts
i dont see this going anywhre
fast flame
Also there have been worse policies than alien and sedition. 3/5ths compromise, hell slavery was legal until 1865. Calling the Patriot/Freedom acts the “worst disasters to happen in our country” is a severe overstatement.
stable sable
its an overstatement
i realize that i was mostly thinking abt the 20th century till now when i said that lol I'm a bit tired
fast flame
no worries haha. i think we can definitely all agree that the patriot act is pretty terrible. just trying to put it in perspective :P
dusky raft
The federal government is way to big for its own good
shut vine
So the technicality behind the county refusing to certify is if a single county fails to do so the state legislator unilaterally has the right to select the electors based on Georgia election law. It's not so much Mitch McConnell that may refuse to certify results, the Democrats may refuse to do so too if the Michigan State Legislator selects electors that give the votes to Trump.
dusky raft
Ive just stopped caring about what is going on until this mess is sorted out
It is a fucking shitshow from news outlets
shut vine
Yeah, it's not really going to affect anyone either way tbh
Neither party will have complete control over the federal legislature.
dusky raft
im just waiting till dec/jan before I get back into politics again
because fuck this is just such a damn mess
shut vine
Also states and local municipalities have more effect over citizens lives anyway.
dusky raft
Yeah, states should have more power over what they can/cant do
shut vine
It's a pretty reasonable small government model tbh.
Electoral college is just a shitshow.
dusky raft
I think there should be refinement, but my stance has been largely the same since 2016, even if biden wins
shut vine
Mines pretty static too, mostly based around the idea that if you want more people to vote, making the presidential candidate based around the popular vote is going to incentivize more people in "safe" blue and red states to vote.
I also think the college was fit for purpose in its time, but is just dated now.
dusky raft
The issue with the popular vote as per usual is that a single party may dominate
mystic ermine
imagine trump and his party having full control over the US
dusky raft
I dont think a party should wield that much power at once
but I find the democrats more blunt about their control compared to republicans
mystic ermine
The problem these days is that it's too much party vs party
dusky raft
I find mcconnel a spinless idiot, but I find pelosi to be power hungry
mystic ermine
such a tragedy that that salon set her up
dusky raft
oh yeah, totally wasnt her fault, the it was the republican salon owner who owned a busniess in one of the most progressive cities
them damn republicans trying to frame democrats
jokes aside, pelosi should have known her own rules set forth by her party
mystic ermine
Yea, that's basically my "besides the joke", especially as she's one of the people strongly critizing people over it
dusky raft
im shocked how long she has been in power for
much like the "formerly" racist fossil that was voted in
shut vine
Not really, since the house and senate will still work the same way if the presidential vote is popular based.
dusky raft
and everyone will bitch about nothing getting done
though, its all the problem of a two party state
shut vine
Yeah, well my gut feeling is making the process for selecting a president less similar to the method to elect Congress would actually force the parties to be more bipartisan.
I also think RPV, and making the vice presidential election separate from the presidential one would help with that.
None of this will ever happen, probably
dusky raft
that used to be a thing, somewhat
early on, it was the runner up who won the vice presidency position
turns out, having party runner ups wasnt a great idea...
shut vine
I think the vice presidential one has a big impact. It means the Senate can be split 50/50, the president be the same party as the House, and the Vice President can be on another party to the President.
elder portal
I wish Trump put an eighth as much effort into COVID as he does the election results
dusky raft
what more can be done? should we close for 4 weeks and expect people who depend on a job to survive that long?
shut vine
Well he's already got a plan in place for distributing the vaccines, the problems with distribution were solved months ago (the ones we didn't know we'd have).
dusky raft
Nevermind states told him to go fuck himself
elder portal
"what more could have been done", you mean. And, a lot.
shut vine
Well the ones that were not certain to happen.
elder portal
promoting conspiracy theories about COVID and claiming it's fake and that masks don't help, not wearing one himself.. I mean, that's just a start, but he definitely could have "done better"
he somehow managed to put the bar through the fucking floor on that one
shut vine
I mean that's what the medical advisors told him allegedly.
elder portal
if only he actually cared about any of that
shut vine
They claim that, not him.
elder portal
the medical advisors told Trump that COVID wasn't real and that the Democratic party created it to kill Republicans?
I mean, clearly they should lose their licenses then
shut vine
No, regarding masks not being recommended for general use.
If you have any full context videos of him saying those other things though I'd be interested.
elder portal
bottom line, Trump doesn't care. The only reason he even cared about a vaccine is because he wanted to take that victory away from Biden
he's still being a child
definitely sounds like someone who cares
and not downplaying the situation at all
April 3: The CDC recommends that people begin “wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain.”
“So it’s voluntary; you don’t have to do it. They suggested for a period of time. But this is voluntary. I don’t think I’m going to be doing it. … So with the masks, it’s going to be, really, a voluntary thing. You can do it. You don’t have to do it. I’m choosing not to do it, but some people may want to do it, and that’s okay. It may be good. Probably will. They’re making a recommendation. It’s only a recommendation. It’s voluntary.” — Trump in a task force press briefing, announcing the CDC recommendation on face masks.
Trump specifically referenced Fauci when saying anything about "his doctors" telling him not to wear one, etc
it's pretty much just Fauci
As Fauci told the Washington Post here , at the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, masks were not recommended for the general public, as authorities were trying to prevent a mask shortage for health workers and the extent of asymptomatic spread was unknown.
which, yes, makes some sense
on Trump calling it a hoax: https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-virus-outbreak-ap-fact-check-politics-joe-biden-1eea443cca46df5f18e61b7c34549da2
so, looks like that was taken.. Not neccesarily out-of-context
just differently than intended
which, to be fair, is really fucking difficult to tell with Trump
and, finally, on Trump (not) doing anything on COVID: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuVo4fnpLC8
shut vine
So even faccheck.org doesn't claim Trump is saying the virus a hoax.
dusky raft
The problem that I do have is what enforcement is being proposed
I'll settle with masks if it means avoiding a 4 week lockdown
which most highly populated states seem to have
shut vine
Fauci claimed in an interview the reason he advised the President that he should not tell everyone to wear a mask, was that he (Fauci) felt the supply of masks was strained, and that if everyone bought masks the frontline (healthcare workers, police, etc) would have less access to them.
My biggest issue with how Trump handled it, is he didn't lockdown the country from all non-nationals.
dusky raft
yeah, we shouldnt be panicing
this is what I see in a lockdown here
everyone will panic
shut vine
No person who is not a permanent resident or citizen should have been allowed into the country when the initial border closures happened with specific countries. It should have been every country.
dusky raft
I just dont find it healthy for us to go into an extended lockdown
small businesses already had to cope with losses, and now their being told by the incoming administration to get fucked?
shut vine
Last I heard even WHO was saying the lockdowns were a mistake.
dusky raft
because it didnt help the first time
shut vine
Ah cat out of the bag situation, yeah that makes sense to me.
dusky raft
people suffered, either mentally, economically, or both
shut vine
I suppose the best course of action is to do what several states did, send the infected to aged care facilities.
(sarcasm :P)
dusky raft
We should seriously consider helping protect those who do have medical problems
dusky raft
though, at the same time, and not to be blunt, this is kind of nature taking its course with older people
we have made our world very safe through vaccines, hell, there are a lot worse we ran across not even a century ago
shut vine
Yeah, but people will still want to blame the government.
dusky raft
Because we are fed this information 24/7
shut vine
Just happens that Trump is less likable than the Governors so he will be the target of any harassment.
dusky raft
I think trump has done decently with covid, though he has been curb stomped so many times to make him look so bad
nevermind with a vaccine around the corner
hopefully
shut vine
It's a bit hard to know for certain one way or another to be honest.
Like you can compare it to other Novel pandemics but they spread differently, and this one has varying levels of symptoms.
US didn't do great, but it's not the worst scenario.
Many other countries did worse than the US.
shut vine
By didn't do great I mean it did badly to be clear.
dusky raft
As of 17 November 2020, 10 908 028 cases have been reported in the EU/EEA
As of 17 November 2020, 270 664 deaths have been reported in the EU/EEA
shut vine
I generally look at per capita information, it seems like a more reasonable measure for this kind of thing.
It doesn't take into account population density or ease of travel etc but it's the best we have as a measure, I think.
dusky raft
no, but im trying to point people towards a somewhat more reasonable size to compare
you just cant compare the UK to the US for covid deaths/confirmed cases total
which I see a bit
the UK will always have a lower confirm/death tally
you might as well compare each US state to each EU nation actually
shut vine
I also don't think you can compare Western vs Eastern cultures either, many Eastern cultures wear masks on a regular basis in the SARS-CoV era.
Yeah makes sense
dusky raft
I do find it odd how china's reports are stupidly low for their population size
shut vine
I do not trust China/India/Russia to give accurate information.
dusky raft
no
shut vine
Any population where a majority of their people are impoverished is going to underreport due to financial reasons, so when you take into account lack of transparency and the demographic of those countries they're probably the least accurate three.
dusky raft
but yeah, I do not see an extended lockdown in the US to be even remotely helpful
shut vine
Yeah, that's the issue, there is no way to effectively enforce anything.
You'd also have to increase border security or close your borders to non-citizens/non-perm residents.
dusky raft
Here is really the problems of a 4 week lockdown:
- enforcement is going to be challegened, if anyone has seen what has happened over the last few months
- small business america is going to be fucked, just fucked
- people clearly wont have the cash to survive 4 weeks, most people dont have cushy IT/media jobs
- riots will get larger and larger, and from both sides, either from the aspect of law enforcement abuse or over the lockdown itself being unjust
shut vine
The problem with lockdowns is unless you can enforce them, they're effectively only slowing things down. Which when you're unprepared that's going to have advantages, but long term it's not a viable solution.
Well 4 weeks will not cripple the economy, problem is the lockdowns can't be 4 weeks because people wont listen and police will not be able to enforce it on those who don't.
They'd have to be significantly longer due to these factors; which will cripple the economy.
dusky raft
This is the US, not europe...
shut vine
I am aware.
dusky raft
the economy may not collapse largely due to big businesses being able to cope
the problem is again, businesses need to make money, but companies like amazon can survive hits
shut vine
Oh yeah, small businesses that are already failing will fail most likely.
Lockdowns are unlikely to stand up in a court anyway.
US constitution has a lot of protections over freedom and government getting too much power.
dusky raft
yeah, I dont think they will, though im shocked how one local restaurant hasnt shuttered considering they opened right in the middle of the pandemic
though, considering I cant tolerate gluten, its nice they didnt shutter
shut vine
Realistically if I was their landlord I'd be happy getting any payment they can afford, and there is low incentive for banks to foreclose.
It'd be highly unlikely they'll recover money, and if you have a good tenant you don't want to risk not getting another one.
near glen
I mean, the EU as a whole isnt far behind
@dusky raft the issue with that is that there is no centralized response in the EU, where in the US that at least could have been possible
And I would also argue differences between EU member states are higher than US states if you look at health care systems
Like, compare germanies healthcare system to italy (that collapsed in March/April and is responsible for a ton of deaths)
Actually: italy isn't leading in deaths, wtf
dusky raft
Isn't germany also sitting on cash to spend just in case this happened?
near glen
We do have a budget for emergency shit but that's long gone
dusky raft
Also germany's healthcare system doesn't provide tricks at every level compared to the US
near glen
All this is financed with loans and we will repay it eventually with means nobody wants to talk about yet
dusky raft
It's just us americans blame health insurance than see the whole picture
near glen
Well, it's americans not going to doctors early too
dusky raft
Because it's fucking expensive with/without insurance
dusky raft
I've been saying this for years, but it's not insurance to blame 100%
Its hospitals/groups that can charge whatever the fuck they want even if the prices are different per patient
Plus the ACA made it more expensive
But hey, the poor get it free
And again, @near glen while we could have centralized covid efforts, quite a few states were vocal about it, more along the lines of saying trump can go fuck himself
near glen
All am saying that you are not doing awful, you are still a first world country after all, just like Sweden for example, but with a little bit more effort it could look much better
And yes, you can't blame one element of the healthcare sector, it's all coming together. So it's of to regulators to fix
Here hospitals charge standard rates, because public health insurance has max rates defined
dusky raft
I don't like the idea of socialized medicine, I'd rather not have some guy in DC decide my fate, but I don't like the fact that companies can get away with highway robbery and other anti consumer practices
I'd rather have a company decide my fate over government
shut vine
Don't think a centralized response in the US is possible either, each state effectively has control over their response
near glen
Side note: we started enforcing masks for covidiots: https://twitter.com/felixhuesmann/status/1328966331471949826?s=19
Sadly they don't have capacity to do this with everybody on that demonstration
The crime is resisting force here, not so much wearing no mask, that's just a 300 euro fine iirc
So it still looks like this, sigh
Heh, in germany that kind of wage is coppled to min wage or smth like that
shut vine
Man that's nearly $4 per infected SARS-CoV-2 patient he sent to aged care facilities. 😛
restive seal
I don't like the idea of socialized medicine, I'd rather not have some guy in DC decide my fate
I always struggle to understand this one. Why do people distrust the government, a non-profit entity controlled by the citizenry, with choosing how much money to spend on you but trust an insurance company, a for-profit entity motivated by making more money for shareholders, to do the same?
mystic ermine
implying people trust insurance companies
How many government services, outside of maybe the army, complain about budget shortfalls?
brisk cradle
Health insurance is a tax and you get shit for it
foggy fern
I guess Trump was really unhappy with this tweet https://twitter.com/CISAKrebs/status/1328741106624901120
CISA's report on the election certainly didn't help though
weary obsidian
I always struggle to understand this one. Why do people distrust the government, a non-profit entity controlled by the citizenry, with choosing how much money to spend on you but trust an insurance company, a for-profit entity motivated by making more money for shareholders, to do the same?
@restive seal so much this.... never understood why people trust companies more than govt for this exact reason
govt we have power to remove them if they misbehave, you dont have any power in companies unless your super rich and bully it with money
restive seal
The "government bureaucracy is slow/poorly managed" argument falls flat for me whenever I hear about the inner workings of just about any company, including any I've worked for. At least with government, as you said, the people have a say in what's going on. 😛
foggy fern
Any company with more than like 50 people has some part of it you can look at and recoil in horror at the inefficiencies or ineptitude
restive seal
Make that 5! 😄
plush crypt
120?
weary obsidian
english?
torn wadi
Includes subs.
Also not really politics, but somewhat describes the views on school on Balkan.
weary obsidian
France trying to compete with America for wtf's?
https://twitter.com/YourAnonCentral/status/1329184784338153472
elder portal
@restive seal I consulted for a company of three people, one of whom was supposed to be the full-stack developer and went into it knowing nothing about any of the languages they were using, or anything about server admin or networking or security
I taught them everything except JS, which I know nothing of
but that was their only developer
so.. Make that three 😄
when I was hired for the consulting, by the way, their boxes were absolutely riddled with malware
there was nothing preventing one website from accessing another
and no security patches had been run for years
taught them how to sandbox, set up new boxes, cleaned up the websites..
taught them how SSL/TLS works with the CA chain
specifically SSL, because TLS doesn't use CAs
yeah, it was a mess
though that full-stack developer turned into a friend. We went to competitions together, he finally walked away from that company, and got hired to work at Amazon a few months ago as a Linux sysadmin making, currently, about $98k/yr
and I taught him pretty much everything he knows about Linux, so I call that a win 😄
sure, that's only one example of a shit company making an employee successful- sort-of, loosely
so don't expect that to happen every time. Shit companies usually produce shit employees
weary obsidian
fast flame
There’s no way that as conservative as you are you don’t know who AOC is.
fast flame
we dont think that i can assure you
biden won
also, AOC is the symbol for far right people of hard progressivism. she's the target of a lot of hate from trump supporters, and seeing as you are one of those, i made a rash assumption.
restive seal
@fast flame basket is messing with you
There's no way basket's favorite political sites aren't absolutely full of "AOC spent her own money today and that's an outrage" posts 😛
fast flame
youre right i should have trusted my instincts lol
there was literally a woman running for the house here in tennessee running on the slogan "The Anti-AOC." of course every trumper knows who she is.
plush crypt
AOC actually brings up a lot of good topics, too
It is absolutely true if you're not a white-supremacist bigot :p e.g. this where she challenges Zucc on white-supremacists being "rigorous fact checkers" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KFQx-mc2Ao
Fun fact: Every congress(wo)man does
isn't she on the committee of civil rights and liberties? and she is a congresswoman, so she already has one of the most powerful positions in your country, and could quickly become the last vote to veto your president's actions
cosmic badge
The legislature is Republican controlled but surprisingly the Senate Majority Leader and House Speaker have both opposed impeachment.
But not all of Michigan’s GOP agree with the calls for impeachment and Michigan House Speaker, Rep. Lee Chatfield, R, called the move a “distraction from the real things we have to get done in our state.”
“We’re not the party that impeaches someone because we’re upset with policies that they’ve enacted,” he told local news outlet Michigan Live.
Hm, Biden plans to reverse Trump's outgoing overhaul of the H1B visa program. I actually kinda liked that H1B was being restricted more during the pandemic. More Americans should move towards tech jobs and are less likely to be picky about wages right now, we probably shouldn't be issuing as many H1Bs as we do now.
Though I guess not as big of a deal at that point with the vaccine(s) being rolled out eventually, things will go back to somewhat normal, but would be nice for more Americans to take those IT jobs.
elder portal
The reality of 2020 is that most of it won't stay in 2020
We've defined new normals, now
For better or worse, this will stay with us for quite a long time
We can't containerize all the bad shit in this year and start over in January
Though the catharsis of "blowing up 2020" is nice
Which is essentially what biden seems to be trying to do
Basically, we make jokes about this being a terrible year which implies 2021 won't be similar, but we eventually have to realize that January 1, 2021 will not be that much different from December 31, 2020
This is the new reality, the new normal. At least for quite a while
Much longer than a few months, maybe even more than a decade
And honestly, a lot of 2020 has been realizing or bringing up things that have been problems for a very long time
Racism didn't just magically appear
A good portion of politicians didn't just suddenly decide they were assholes
Eventually we will all need to come to terms with the fact that these aren't 2020 problems and actually address them
But for now, yeah, fuck 2020
loud flax
it's a human heart issue
and for the record, i won't trust anyone who can tell me that good or bad is just opinion (i know there are a lot of people out there that will say this)
if that's true, then who cares about progress, it's just opinion
cosmic badge
Europe is an interesting situation when it comes to immigration and not nearly as comparable to North America, as it's effectively disconnected from the rest of the world, particularly war zones.
American immigration policy isn't actually as strict as many people believe it is.
Actually, a lot of people complain about Japan (and east Asia's) racism in general, which is reflected in their policies that reinforce homogeneity.
Japan and South Korea are super fucking racist, dude.
I spent half of my life living in east asia
Well, more actually.
About 20 years of it
near glen
We solve our immagration problems by kicking ppl from boats and letting them drown in the Mediterranean or by beating them up at boarders and forcing them go back
#frontex style
cosmic badge
I don't know where you get the idea that Japan is a socially better place for foreigners just because their immigration policies are strict.
smoky hedge
Australia sends our immigrants to an offshore detention facility they never leave that used to be a nuclear testing site 🙂
near glen
Germany is doing great with our liberal immigration policy, to asylum seekers and in general
After ww2 the only reason we could rebuild our economy was with guest workers from turkey
near glen
That's the only reason germany is relevant nowadays
cosmic badge
Westerners also don't immigrate to Japan because of obvious reasons, not immigration policies.
loud flax
@autumn lotus of course they don't think they're wrong, so are you saying a bad guy's opinion isn't anymore bad than yours?
near glen
Germany needs immigrants to be able to survive, else we wouldn't have enough workers
cosmic badge
There are huge language and cultural barriers to overcome that only the most educated and privileged expats able to make a life there.
Obviously land barriers too
You can't just walk into Japan
Same with Korea, which is effectively an island with China/NK blocking off the south
Subjective, you mean
Morals don't exist without people, which by definition means it cannot be objective.
loud flax
so you're no better than a murderer is what you're saying
loud flax
i don't believe that
cosmic badge
There is no such thing as an objective morality.
Morality is a concept understood by people, without people this concept cannot exist
By definition this makes it subjective.
elder portal
Morality is entirely subjective, yes
Beating the racism house again- to some, racism is immoral. To others, it apparently is not
loud flax
sure, religious contexts can make it even worse
elder portal
That's pretty clear evidence that morality is subjective
cosmic badge
I suppose if you were some really religious dude you could try to argue morality as some objective thing that exists regardless of people, that good and bad are always defined regardless, but that's probably not a healthy viewpoint
elder portal
The entirety of philosophy exists because morality is subjective
loud flax
we all suffer, that's not subjective, so why should it ever be ok that suffering is subjectively good, it seems like suffering isn't ok at all
cosmic badge
Some people believe that some suffering is okay.
Some people believe that all suffering is okay
Some people believe that no suffering is okay
Different people have different ideas of what is okay and not okay
This is called subjective.
Therefore, morality is subjective.
loud flax
how is that working out for them?
elder portal
Pretty much. Also the definition of suffering shifts respective to the person
cosmic badge
What if you willingly suffer to benefit someone else?
elder portal
It's all subjective
cosmic badge
What if you willingly suffer because you know it will make you stronger?
loud flax
well true
cosmic badge
What if society has collectively decided that a few people suffering a tiny amount so that a lot of people can benefit enormously is morally correct?
Morality. Is. Subjective.
loud flax
i just think someone that wants to kill themselves went through life either perverting their human value or interacted with people who had perverted human values
elder portal
For some people, not having a job is suffering. For others, it's not having a roof over your head. For yet others, it's an oppressive regime. For more, it's dying on the street. For a few, it's being tortured and killed
Perspective is subjective
And morality requires a perspective
Therefore, subjective
cosmic badge
Now as a society we have some very strong beliefs on some issues, which we all agree on, that might seem objective, but it's still subjective because it requires that human perspective to understand
elder portal
Many people can agree on a particular perspective
cosmic badge
For example, murder is bad. We all agree on that, right?
elder portal
But not all will
cosmic badge
Indeed, that too is subjective depending on the nature of the murder.
Well, more subjective
elder portal
I wouldn't be surprised if, in some cultures, murder was perfectly acceptable
Really, the belief that morality is objective comes from a sheltered existence
Assuming all people agree with your perspective
loud flax
lol
cosmic badge
There's a lot of shit we've done in the name of morality which has been evil as fuck
By today's morals
loud flax
my view is you can treat everyone the same way to achieve the optimal outcome
elder portal
That's actually also not correct
cosmic badge
Like, look at the War on Drugs.
People believed that drugs are a morally deprived activity.
loud flax
but difference there is whether someone accepts how you treat them or not
cosmic badge
And it has destabilized entire countries.
elder portal
Recent movements for disability have created a difference between "treating everyone the same" and "creating an even playing field"
They aren't the same
You cannot treat someone with a disability exactly the same as everyone else, for example
Ie. Hearing loss
Eg.*
cosmic badge
You want to make sure everyone has the same opportunities.
elder portal
Treating someone with hearing loss the same as someone without puts them at a disadvantage
cosmic badge
But yeah that doesn't translate to treating someone the same
elder portal
Again, that usually comes from a sheltered existence where interactions with different people and ideas is minimal
near glen
That's backwards
elder portal
There's a difference between elevation and a handicap
elder portal
Yeah
cosmic badge
And to be clear, there's a difference between Equal Opportunity and Equal Outcome. We're not saying people with disabilities or whatever should be entitled to outcomes, but that they should have the opportunity to compete for those outcomes.
elder portal
Yep
near glen
Somebody with hearing loss could have above average programming ability but would be doing badly because his university isn't equiped with stuff to help him
cosmic badge
Some times the left does forget that distinct between opportunity and outcome.
People should still have to work for what they have.
They shouldn't just be handed it
near glen
That's not only a loss to that invidial, but also society as a whole
Yeah it's about removing obstacles, not doing their work for them
cosmic badge
I mean as an Asian-American I agree, remove Affirmative Action lol
elder portal
I don't know enough about it to say anything on the topic
I live a comparatively privileged life
I also don't know the effects or extent
Though I still grew up (and still am) lower-middle-class, so I could be even farther off base than I am now
There's always someone better off than you and always someone worse off than you
Words from my father
I'm not sure a summary from someone against the policy is a great source
If it becomes an issue I can do something about I'll look into it
Problem is there's many issues, and I do have to eventually make time to actually live my own life
cosmic badge
Yeah I understand the reasoning for it, to help marginalized communities, but I don't think affirmative action is the answer.
elder portal
Sounds like someone created a system and someone else found a way to game it?
Which happens regardless of the system
Though, again, summary from a biased source
cosmic badge
Not really game it, it just some times hurts other minorities, like Asians, who are held to a higher standard than say Hispanics.
That's what affirmative action is. Lowering or raising the standards of admission based on race.
elder portal
Either way, sounds like something that I can't do anything about right now without putting in a lot of time and effort, and I have to leave time to live my life somewhere. Can't support issues if I'm dead
Can't care about literally everything
So if it becomes something I can do something about, I'll look into it more
The border is what's on the ballot, though. Or was. Is.
Small steps forward
Wherever we can take them
cosmic badge
There was a proposition on the ballot this year in California which tried to reinstate affirmative action (it's been prohibited since 1996). It failed 🙂
elder portal
Neat. I'm not a Cali resident, though
But I'm glad it's getting around
Maybe it'll stop by here
Then I have an excuse to do some research
Border "stuff" was absolutely a huge issue between candidates in the ballot that helped decide
cosmic badge
I don't think prolonged family separation was a policy that was practiced by Obama, even if the rest was.
cosmic badge
I agree the border is not a very important issue, though.
elder portal
Either way you voted, border things was something you were voting for regardless of how much it affected you personally
So, small steps
Where we can
cosmic badge
The most effective way to secure the border is to increase CBP's budget, install more cameras/equipment. Way cheaper and more effective than building a wall.
And that should've been the extent of the border discussion the past few years.
elder portal
Ah, yes, the "media is against Republicans" argument
Despite that a lot of papers have different leans
cosmic badge
The idea of a wall across the entire length of the border was a stupid idea. Let's be real.
Anyone who supported that really needs to rethink how border crossings work
elder portal
That's not how that worked
"the media" is also incredibly ambiguous
It's like saying "the internet"
Great
Very specific
cosmic badge
Also don't think extended family separations was ever an Obama policy.
I can understand detention, though
But ripping families apart for months at a time is pretty rough.
elder portal
"the media" is something only recently brought up as an ambiguous entity to point fingers at
Hard to defend ambiguous entities
Yet more logical fallacies
News agencies? Twitter? Google? Facebook? Youtube?
Who?
cosmic badge
Something COVID related, maybe
cosmic badge
LOL, are you still clinging to that?
elder portal
That's not..
elder portal
Lol.
cosmic badge
The gap between each state is too big.
cosmic badge
Vast majority of his lawsuits are getting dismissed
elder portal
Despite the fact that every other election is
cosmic badge
Even if anyone of the active lawsuits that had any merit actually were decided in favor of Trump, he still wouldn't have enough to change the outcome.
elder portal
You're talking about a specific state?
cosmic badge
I was talking about the EC
elder portal
It would take more than one state at this point
cosmic badge
There's not way for him to win the EC, not even with the lawsuits he has right now.
cosmic badge
At this point he's just milking a public image for donations for his legal defense and 2024 campaign
There's no path to getting a tie for him
elder portal
Basket, man, it's done
cosmic badge
There have been close elections in the past. This is not one of them
The popular votes are impressive, though. Will admit
But the path to victory relies on the EC and he has no pathway through there
Nah, those lawsuits aren't going anywhere
elder portal
"if he can do something about mail in ballots" is a dangerous game
That's not something you want to fuck with
It's over, basket
It's done
You gotta come back to reality at some point
cosmic badge
It's fine, let him troll right up until the whole thing is certified.
elder portal
Sure
cosmic badge
None of the lawsuits will not lead to any significant change in the count. Most of them have no merit, the ones that do wouldn't change the outcome any way.
Not sure how many times that has to be repeated lol
elder portal
That's just delusional at that point
But we'll wait for votes to be certified
Then the EC
Then inauguration
elder portal
Trump is also deluding himself
cosmic badge
I think it's more about conning his supporters into fattening his legal defense fund.
elder portal
But in doing so here's just deepening the wounds, here
Ahh
Shit, I forgot about that
Yeah, that would make sense
cosmic badge
Have you seen the emails?
elder portal
It's pretty classic Trump
cosmic badge
For sure
cosmic badge
Well, I believe Trump is in deep shit with New York once he's out of office.
elder portal
Blocking biden on the principal that it's biden would be bullshit, but also not unexpected
cosmic badge
If he can defend long enough to become president, NY state can't touch him lol
elder portal
But the president has a ton of power, so there's that
Also the house is democratic
So that helps some
We'll see
I think it might
cosmic badge
I don't doubt he'll be able to get that money, for sure.
He'll tie up NY in court long enough to not get sent to prison, and maybe eventually get re-elected.
elder portal
My worry is that he ditches the secret service and runs to another country, like russia
It's probably unlikely
But the fact that it could happen is a little worrying
cosmic badge
NY going after Trump would probably also make for a good "witch hunt" narrative for his 2024 campaign
elder portal
Mhm
- they would
- he can deny their protection
Secret service is sworn to the county (current president) and THEN former presidents
That's the order they follow
Country*
cosmic badge
Trump wouldn't get sent to a regular prison
elder portal
Federal gov't > past president
If a previous president commits a muder they would absolutely be prosecuted despite protection
Federal prison exists
We'll see
Mr. "Grab them by the pussy" definitely strikes me as an honest, up-front guy and all around good fellow /s
cosmic badge
There's no precedent but there's nothing that says a former president is immune to prosecution. I think the way it'd play out is the Secret Service would still be obligated to protect, but they would just be doing it from a country club prison.
elder portal
I absolutely think there will be
cosmic badge
I fully expect that New York already has a sealed indictment just waiting for Trump to leave office.
elder portal
Yeah
You can only skirt do many laws by having others do your dirty work
The worst we have on Hillary is the fact that she kept emails on a separate server
And then, nothing really beyond regular stuff
Like, compare "shit we have on Hillary and Obama" to "shit Trump has done"
cosmic badge
We'll see soon enough, NY probably wouldn't wait to unseal it.
If they managed to get a sealed indictment, then the judge must've felt really compelled by what they presented him/her.
We won't know until after, if there is one.
elder portal
Somehow we have normalized a lot of shit Trump pulled that, if Obama did it would ruin him
cosmic badge
And then court proceedings, where evidence will be presented, yada yada
That's the point of the sealed indictment, often so that the person doesn't know until they're arrested.
Now it could be that they have nothing, too.
But NY has been giving off some vibes lol
cosmic badge
If any state has anything on Trump, it would be NY probably.
elder portal
That's some next-level coolaid
Dafaq are you drinking, basket
And can I have some?
cosmic badge
Not necessarily
elder portal
Aaaaaand?
If they were?
What's the point?
Ignoring the straw man, here
Obvious strawman is obvious. What's the problem with the city being democratic?
Am heading home, though
So enjoy byte
Sorry
cosmic badge
None of the partisanship matters on court day (if it happens), because the evidence (or lack of) will speak for itself.
My personal feeling is that NY already has a sealed indictment, which alone indicates they could have compelling evidence. Could be there's no indictment. Could be that NY is just throwing red meat for Democratic voters.
Nah I think if anything, it would strengthen Trump's position during his re-election campaign.
Unless you mean this election
But going after ex-president Trump would probably look like a witch hunt to Republican voters.
We'll probably see pretty early on in 2021 whether it was nothing or something.
If there is a legal battle to fight, the state will want to do it as soon as possible.
Because, if they don't, we already know Trump has the resources to tie it up in court for a while.
I'm thinking it wouldn't be crazy to assume that a lot of people who were close to Trump, like Cohen, will be getting dragged into the legal fold too 😛
Well, he probably will never go to jail, that's where you're held while your due process is being administered. He'd just get bailed out. But he might go to prison, if he's ever convicted 🙂
Just it would be the country club style of prison.
I wonder what would happen if he runs a campaign in prison and is elected.
There are procedures for executing out of state arrest warrants. The Secret Service isn't going to assault local law enforcement.
I'm specifically referring to the state of New York bringing charges against Trump.
This is a state level affair.
I'm not at all speculating on SDNY, have no clue what they're about. I'm specifically referring to NY state and DA Cyrus Vance Jr going after Trump once he's out of office. He's been expressing his intent to do so
If Trump is ever convicted of a crime in New York state, it would be something that happened before he was ever president.
Cyrus Vance had opened an investigation into citizen Trump's businesses and finances a while back.
I'm speculating that he's possibly got sealed indictments ready to go already, if not he'll probably still keep up the investigation.
fast flame
there are a ton of sealed documents sitting on judges and attorney's desks in new york filled with evidence of tax fraud and embezzlement all revolving around the trump foundation. once he gets out of office, all of that gets unsealed.
restive seal
i dont see trump as someone who does something illegal intentionally
This may be true. He doesn't appear to always have a firm grasp on reality so he truly may not believe he's breaking the law at any point.
elder portal
Wayne County, a Democratic stronghold, is home to Detroit and voted overwhelmingly for Biden. The Trump campaign on Thursday morning withdrew its lawsuit in the state, saying that it achieved its goal of delaying certification in Wayne County.
What does this accomplish?
And why is this even legal?
"it's fine, I just wanted to obstruct voting processes"
Sounds like something that absolutely should be illegal
How is this acceptable, or even normal?
weary obsidian
they dont try to hide their racism anymore
near glen
It's more the, why are ppl ok with this, why is there no outcry, why do ppl still support trump that I don't understand
Like, it's pretty obvious that he is not interested in the best for the ppl anymore
near glen
(if he ever was)
Isn't the right wing normally the patriots?
The nationalists?
Not very patriotic to obstruct the constitutional voting process
elder portal
I'm just really confused as to why people would vote for or stand behind a campaign that does this?
near glen
I can see why ppl voted for him
Voting for the party or not seeing the person he really is and stuff like that
But now? Everybody knows the election was lost, so you don't do your party any favor, and you can't really support the person either, now that he shows his ugly face more clear then ever before
weary obsidian
you got people like basket who genuinely believe trump won and will win
restive seal
Isn't the right wing normally the patriots?
Only when they're in charge.
elder portal
also only, at least with politicians, when they need something from the military
plush crypt
I'd argue left wing is way more patriotic: They believe in the good of everyone within the nation's borders. If you want to be part, you will not only help your fellow XYZers, but they will also help you, in true patriotic spirit
mystic ermine
unless you voted from trump over biden, in which case you're a racist, homophobic, transphobic, whatever
plush crypt
there will always be those in every part of the spectrum, sadly ^^
near glen
It depends on why you voted for him cat
elder portal
voting for one of the other doesn't make you anything, but it implies that you're heavily misinformed
at least
near glen
I do believe that there are enough ppl in the US that voted for trump cause he's a racist, which makes them racisrs too
If they just voted for the party, that would be a stretch. But they would be tolerating racists, which is the next worst thing to being a racist
elder portal
proud buys just got out of their racism closets recently
mystic ermine
apparently biden appointed a fossil fuel industry ally to his climate movement liason
I mean
near glen
We will have to see in what kind of actions that translates
mystic ermine
They're both racist
plush crypt
If there had been a viable alternative to the Republicans, yeah, I'd be on the same boat as Mini, but there isn't. Over here, and I'm sure also in Germany, we have two parties equivalent to the Republicans who are pretty much equal, except one is also racist. This is not the case for the Reps, who only have the racist option; if their other views align with the Reps, they should vote Rep
restive seal
Strange that the racists all seem to support Trump, if this is a "both sides" thing 🤔
plush crypt
He's the poster boy racist. If I'm asked of a green politician I support, I'd mention the Green Party's leader meanwhile I vote for another party who's also very green
mystic ermine
I mean, over in the UK we're just fucked either way
plush crypt
Trump is just very well known to be a racist, so he's now the exemplary example of it
weary obsidian
oh im no fan of biden myself, i see this as switching the enemy, now gotta make sure we get someone in better the next election to primary his ass
i didnt vote "For biden", i voted "Against trump"
doubt Bernie will run again though, age just keeps counting against him
elder portal
I do agree with a lot of Bernie's viewpoints, but I'm not sure exactly how we're going to pay for all of these changes he wants to make
restive seal
glances at military budget
elder portal
I mean, yeah
but that would reduce the availability for third-party military contractors
weary obsidian
well, restore taxes to where they use to be in the 90's, and SAVE on health care....
elder portal
reducing the military budget some, yes. Reduce it too much and you put a lot of people out of jobs though
plush crypt
Good time to remind you that you already spend more per capita on healthcare than "free healthcare" countries do?
weary obsidian
thats what i meant by save proxi
elder portal
that's a massive battle that will take an entire presidency to fight
mystic ermine
A fair % of people really don't want government ran stuff
weary obsidian
reallocate the massive loss of money on current system
mystic ermine
Especially when they threaten to kill off private insurance
weary obsidian
@mystic ermine because they are brainwashed, and a good chunk of those % are already fucking using govt healthcare
mystic ermine
I mean, how many happy jumpy stories do you hear about people wanting to run to the DMV for a quick license update, etc
plush crypt
with the horrors I've had the past few days with private insurance, I'm really happy we hardly need it here...
weary obsidian
you got trumpist already ON medicare complaining that they dont want others to have it
restive seal
I mean, how many happy jumpy stories do you hear about people wanting to run to the DMV for a quick license update, etc
How many happy jumpy stories do you hear about people getting private insurance mistakes fixed? 😛
elder portal
the person who lead the whole "long lines at free healthcare" thing has since spent his retirement undoing that damage
that was paid for by health insurance
that whole campaign
mystic ermine
I mean, I'd love for the US to have something like the NHS, but, i defo don't wanna see the US get our fun services
weary obsidian
i have many family members on medicare. its so fucking simple. we need it for everyone
mystic ermine
ask any brit with mental health issues about the frequent multi-month waiting lists for care
plush crypt
applies here too, cat :/
plush crypt
with children, anyways; adults need to go private
mystic ermine
I mean, if you can do it without threatening off private insurance, yea, sure, go for it
elder portal
you already have long waiting lists, people not even bothering to get care because it's too expensive
weary obsidian
but why? private insurance needs to go
weary obsidian
plenty of other markets to insure
mystic ermine
Because I don't think that there should be a single point provider of a critical service
weary obsidian
theres a difference in single provider vs single PAYER
doesnt change anything for the providers, they just are guaranteed to get paid
no more worrying about "WHO YOU WITH?!"
or hey yeah we take your insurance but that ambulance company doesnt, enjoy your bill
plush crypt
*or doesnt matter cause someones getting paid anyways
weary obsidian
i had to pay 500$ recently for an ambulance who simply pushed a wheel chair from 1 room/floor to another in same building for my wife, (she passed out and the nurse wanted to check her into the ER to get checked out as they didnt understand her condition on why, and I wasnt in there with her), but lovely ambulance crew doesnt take my insurance.
was one expensive wheelchair ride!
no "hey do you agree to this 500$ charge" either, just bam heres a bill, pay it or else
mystic ermine
I mean, personally, all systems are fucked
elder portal
Germany seems to have it right
why not follow them?
see what they're doing and what can apply?
weary obsidian
We got to fix the system on the consumer finance side first, then tackle the next problem
Can't give up improving just cause it won't solve every problem
elder portal
I mean, Mini's got it pretty fuckin' sweet as far as health insurance goes
and healthcare
mystic ermine
well, mini's on private insurance iirc
elder portal
that's kinda how Germany's system works. It's all still privatized
but everyone has it
and the gov't pays
sounds great to me
according to Mini, they wait at most half a day to get general care, and most of the time not at all
that would be nice
here you have to set up an appointment weeks in advance, on a good day
seems broken to me
mystic ermine
week here generally, but im in a decent area
elder portal
sounds like Germany has it figured out
we should be looking at that as an example
Canada also seems to have it figured out
similar system, except I don't believe they have any privatized insurance
mystic ermine
God, I remember getting an infection in my toe when i was younger
Well, ingrown toe nail
I was in a much better area for care, but, that was before some of the NHS cuts, had to go to the GP, which took a few days, then had to be referred for that which was another couple of weeks on the waiting list
Also, where will the money come from? can hospitals just throw invoices somewhere? is there anything preventing them raising their prices when they see the potential for earning a bit more at the tax payer dime? Will there be a budget or not? (that last one errs me out heavily with the state of the NHS)
near glen
To explain the German system again, insurance sets max prices, hospitals write their invoices inside of those boundaries
Insurance prices for public insurance gets set by gov using whatever metrics, I don't really know
And the money comes from the fact that everybody pays
The more ppl in an insurance, the better you divide risk, and as such, prices can be lowered
mystic ermine
elder portal
President Donald Trump told an ally that he knows he lost, but that he is delaying the transition process and is aggressively trying to sow doubt about the election results in order to get back at Democrats for questioning the legitimacy of his own election in 2016, especially with the Russia investigation, a source familiar with the President's thinking told CNN on Thursday.
Again, why is this normal or allowed?
"fuck america" I guess
Who cares about faith in the election or the American people when you can use your power to get back at an idea?
smoky hedge
here you have to set up an appointment weeks in advance, on a good day
Australia is pretty similar
Although Australia’s healthcare system is rather bad in terms of getting into places, and rather bad in terms of paying for anything that’s not a super common issue
weary obsidian
lol just saw this https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/eric-trump-vote-tweet-one-week-after-election_au_5fab6059c5b6d647a39a006a
drifting arch
TIL there is a donaldtrump subreddit with thousands of trump supporters reeing "stop the steal" and they have their own post certification election projection map
elder portal
that's hilarious
drifting arch
I've never felt so inundated with stupidity
Not even here
They call themselves the Trump Election Defense Task Force
What the fuck
drifting arch
They say this is what it will look like after certification 🙄
Everytime a state is clearly biden, it's all lowercase "biden wins blablabla" and when trump wins it's "TRUMP WINS BLABLABLA"
Whatever
drifting arch
Any truth to their claims of georgia finding a shitload of missing trump votes? They claim it's in the thousands, and that would be unprecedented. Recounts usually are in the small hundreds
elder portal
so far, none
every time something's brought to any court it mysteriously disappears
or is incredibly exaggerated
or is hear-say
we need ze proof, peoples
that's how law works
drifting arch
Yeah idk on the subreddit they claimed georgia found 1600 missing trump votes in the very first county and I was wondering what the source for that is but they naturally did not include one
elder portal
looks like a case of missing votes, not necessarily malice - at least from the articles
Trump gained 1,643 and Biden gained 865
Trump is still behind Biden by > 13,000
drifting arch
Hmm
elder portal
this is a special kind if idiocy
more people voted, ergo more black people voted, ergo more black people voted for Biden
that's how the concept of "more" works. Yes.
also, are they assuming black people will exclusively vote more for a black president than a white one?
also also, who is "they"
Mysterious group/idea #184 to point more fingers at
very pleasant people
mystic ermine
aren't people nice
elder portal
I'm half-tempted to add that subreddit to my dashboard
I'm not entirely sure I see a point, though
it would just bring everything down for no real purpose
shrewd sparrow
elder portal
okay, so the AwakenWithJP video looks like it's trying to hit a few different points
but the premise of the whole thing hinges on "reviewed by independent fact-checkers" popups/whatever, and that people will read those and not think about verifying the sources
but the argument also hinges on those sources never being verified by anyone
basically, the argument makes a point about verifying the data provided by your article, but also it goes way off the rails into a world built by a premise not based in reality
also I dislike vitamin supplement sponsorships