Unlikely as I said earlier
#politics
shut vine
It's probably the best chance Americans have at stimulus though
I don't see either party budging tbh
cosmic badge
As the situation gets worse, the pressure of a stimulus will force a compromise, I'd imagine.
One way or another.
But yeah it might not be for a while.
shut vine
Well, I mean, I don't see them budging before it's too late
The country is headed for depression era stuff if someone doesn't give in
Like it may come back like Trump claims, but I don't feel it
Also FYI, I would probably not want to see either party control all 3 levels of legislative.
I mean more would get done, but I expect more nefarious shit to happen
foggy fern
When Democrats controlled all 3 last they passed the ACA, when Republicans controlled all 3 they passed a tax cut and failed to repeal the ACA
oak cloak
Blaming both dems and reps for not passing a stimulus bill when reps 1. refuse to even table bills for vote and 2. aren't actually interested in any kind of stimulus and actively fight against it, that's some grade-A cognitive dissonance
faint radish
lol I dont want the federal gov doing anything really. Maybe if they don't do anything for long enough, people will stop giving them more power and attention and turn back to their state/local governments
shut vine
I suppose when Republicans start at one number for stimulus, then increase it to try and compromise, they don't actually want it. I suppose you're right.
faint radish
part of the reason why I am against any tax increase no matter what. the government has enough money. they don't spend it wisely cause its not their money
shut vine
Blaming both dems and reps for not passing a stimulus bill when reps 1. refuse to even table bills for vote and 2. aren't actually interested in any kind of stimulus and actively fight against it, that's some grade-A cognitive dissonance
Seems like some grade-A projection
I agree mostly MM, federal has a small effect usually on everyone's day to day lives as it is
State and local elections are substantially more important
Especially in America
foggy fern
The Senate majority has basically no interest in a stimulus bill
Even the weakest smallest versions couldn't pass
shut vine
What are you basing that on?
foggy fern
The fact that they tried to vote on their version of a second stimulus and the votes failed
Then Mitch bailed on negotiations between the House and White House
shut vine
How did they vote on a bill that didn't make it past the House?
Also what was the bill labelled so I can see the vote tally?
foggy fern
Huh, maybe I'm thinking of a different bill, I could have sworn Rand Paul killed this one
But the one I'm finding failed on a party line vote
foggy fern
Democrats would vote no because they wanted a bigger stimulus
shut vine
I don't believe any non-Democrat stimulus package has passed the House floor.
foggy fern
You don't vote to give the other side the parts of your thing they want, you negotiate to keep some of the things they don't want and give them some things you don't want in exchange
Well sure, Republicans in the House voted no because they wanted a smaller one 😛
shut vine
Of course.
My point was both want something different, and both are making compromises
I could just blame Democrats or Pelosi since I dislike her, but I don't feel that's honest
foggy fern
She could have caved at any time and at least gotten something out so she isn't blameless
But Mitch wasn't even at the table, he was just rejecting things Mnuchin and Pelosi came up with
shut vine
Correct, and 1.8 trillion is the biggest stimulus ever
Also the biggest stimulus per capita
foggy fern
Mnuchin wanted the most money possible, Pelosi wanted the most money possible, Trump just wanted anything, he wasn't paying attention to the details beyond what he saw talked about on Fox News
shut vine
I agree, but they did similar to Mitch, pretty sure Republicans started at 1.1, and moved to 1.8, Dems started near 3, and came down to 2.2ish?
foggy fern
Yet they were fighting over like $200 billion after Pelosi already cut $1 trillion from her bill
shut vine
They're both using it for political points in my opinion
foggy fern
Mnuchin was essentially left to argue a position he didn't believe in, as far as I can tell
Because Mitch should have been the one there arguing it
shut vine
Trump should have just told Mitch to give the Dems what they wanted, put his name on the checks, and be done with it
foggy fern
That's what everyone kept thinking would happen, especially as Pelosi kept shaving things off
shut vine
He'd easily win the election doing that, or crucifying Mitch for not doing that, I think
It was a strategic blunder
In fact why not give more
But anyway
My point is it's not clear who's more at fault, but both are disgusting for holding the American people to ransom for political points.
If the Republicans were not negotiating in good faith then she should have shown that by accepting the 1.8T and handballing it to the Senate.
oak cloak
honestly what is the political ransom for dems. Passing a stimulus bill which does nothing to actually help people? I don't get it.
shut vine
Even CNN agrees, go figure.
oak cloak
GOP would not vote on it, and wasn't willing on including anything that would actually help anyone except for big businesses, as if that would somehow fix the situation. That's not a stimulus bill. That's bullshit
shut vine
Please feel free to prove your positive assertion with the breakdown of the Republican stimulus, hint: wrong.
oak cloak
the GOP has refused to cooperate on anything for decades and actively impedes government. Then people blame the democrats for not "working with them"
shut vine
Yes yes, when a Republican president can't get bills done it's his/her fault even if he/she doesn't control the House and Senate, when Democrat presidents can't get bills done it's the House or the Senates fault when they don't have control.
sweet canyon
So what's the status on NV? Are we waiting a few more days?
shut vine
Yeah I think so
They're having delays in mail in ballots I think they said on the news
It'll probably go blue
shut vine
Also NV counties are all separate in their tabulation DB. @sweet canyon
So they have to manually check people have not voted twice.
foggy fern
The Contract with America group in the House in the 90s basically had a rule to not work with Democrats
That's Newt Gingrich and friends
sweet canyon
Ahh so it'll be this weekend before it's done?
shut vine
Yeah both parties pretty much have that rule according to Tulsi Gabbard @foggy fern
oak cloak
Could take that long unfortunately 🙃
foggy fern
Sadly it seems they do now, yeah
shut vine
I'm not justifying it by saying that btw
Yeah don't hold your breath, it'll get slower as more come in probably.
sweet canyon
Oh so even if Trump got everything but Nevada, Biden would still win, right?
oak cloak
yes
shut vine
Depends on AZ
foggy fern
These guys were pissed off with the compromises Reagan and Bush made and wanted their first time having control over Congress to completely block anything Democrats wanted and swing things back their way
oak cloak
He's likely to hold AZ, but if that flips then no
shut vine
Trump can still take that technically, he's on track to take the lead there, but I expect that will change soon
sweet canyon
GA also super close.
shut vine
Yeah, I think Biden will take GA
oak cloak
The experts I've seen discussing AZ all seem to agree it's possible, but unlikely, for Trump to win
Biden is looking better on GA and PA every update
shut vine
Oh I agree with them, but if the current number direction holds he will take AZ is all I'm saying
sweet canyon
And those might be till the weekend too, right?
oak cloak
Biden is catching up quickly in PA
PA is claiming we might know by tonight but I don't buy that at all
sweet canyon
Yeah I saw only like 70K diff?
oak cloak
Soonest we'll know PA I think is Friday, as originally predicted
foggy fern
btw their no-compromise agenda pretty much failed right away because they didn't have a veto-proof majority
shut vine
Yeah I dislike Bush a lot
foggy fern
Clinton had to compromise with them so we didn't get universal health care (this is when the ACA was written the first time as an alternative)
oak cloak
I'm not sure why officials went from Friday to today in their estimate, it doesn't seem like they're counting votes any quicker from what I can tell
shut vine
I dislike Clinton a lot too
😛
I expect Trump to win PA, NC, the rest to go to Biden.
oak cloak
I'm assuming you still expect AK to go to Trump
oak cloak
But AK doesn't really exist
foggy fern
It killed off the conservative coalition between the "moderates" of each party too, things started being party line votes
shut vine
I hope if AZ, NV, and GA go to Biden, that PA and NC do too
foggy fern
The more conservative Democrats were either replaced with Republicans or shunned by Republicans
shut vine
It sends a clear message, and hopefully makes Trump concede.
foggy fern
Under Bush they almost came back but it didn't stick
oak cloak
I am pretty confident AZ and NV will go to Biden, and feeling good about GA and PA. I don't think NC has much of a chance though
foggy fern
And it was only in the Senate anyway, iirc
shut vine
Yeah that sounds about right to me too
I just don't want the electoral delegation loophole to be a problem demon
oak cloak
yeah....me neither
shut vine
Like, I can prefer a certain person as President but still disown them for something like that I think
Do states stop counting when there is a clear win?
tough cedar
i believe not
foggy fern
No, they try to count everything. Only one I wasn't sure on is provisional ballots
shut vine
I think the equal protection clause of the 14th would require them to
I think the only situation where it would make sense is if they got to say 70% and over 50% of the votes were one party.
Also PA's counting is delayed by court injunctions I think
Technically speaking, if the counting gets delayed past the 17th, and certain counties refuse to officially submit their counts, it could be another Florida.
I don't think any county would be dumb enough to do that again though.
brisk cradle
I think differently. PA, NV and AZ go to Biden, Trump barely hangs onto GA, and still wins NC.
shut vine
Could be, they're all really close
brisk cradle
Though GA sounds like it could be 50/50
shut vine
I think having more than 300 EV's would be highly beneficial to reducing violence, have a feeling that wont happen.
brisk cradle
In other words I am still standing by my map
shut vine
That being said, with how close some are, maybe it wouldn't matter
brisk cradle
So far it's held up well, I was definitely more bearish on Democrats and it was indeed warranted.
shut vine
inb4 national guard the first chance Biden gets if there is still violence.
Yeah, the pollsters seemed to be more wrong in certain areas.
brisk cradle
But I was also not bullish for Trump, 2020 would've been difficult for him anyway.
In other words, I was more "Biden has an edge"
shut vine
Probably for any President
brisk cradle
Trump has been very incompetent but his base doesn't care. That's why Democrats are only winning this by thin margins.
If anything the incompetence drives them towards him.
shut vine
I think the problem is it's easy to swing that opinion one way or another since it's very unclear if another President would do better since each pandemic is different
I mean it's easy to argue they'd do some things better, but also easy to argue they'd do some things worse
brisk cradle
Ugh, I got a headache and school work to do.
shut vine
Allegedly he followed the recommendations of the medical experts advising him, but that also doesn't exclude him being incompetent in who he picked to advise him
Also doesn't exclude that from being a lie, even though it was told by those medical experts.
foggy fern
I think the most obvious damage Trump did was ruining the mask recommendation by repeating "just a recommendation" a bunch of times making it clear he didn't like it then saying he wasn't going to wear one
And turning masks into a political issue
He's supposed to be the cheerleader to get people to want to do what the government is recommending
opaque prairie
ya'll see this?
ga gap to less than 4k
and david perdue got bumped to 49.9%
so odds are he goes to a runoff
foggy fern
I think Steven Kornacki just said he expects Biden to pick up at least 5k more too
Over Trump, not total
foggy fern
Georgia is going to have a recount unless the rest of the votes are like 100% Biden
drifting arch
im just imagining trump's face rn
opaque prairie
same
foggy fern
That printer that misprinted a bunch ballots in PA then seemed to take forever to print out fixed ones is making this take even longer
foggy fern
You know, the one with two massive Trump 2020 flags flying over the building
Some people only sent in the misprinted one, some sent both, they have to go through and double check all of them
drifting arch
smh
foggy fern
Wouldn't even have to be intentional to send both, if you sent in the first one right away then got a letter telling you there was a misprint and they were sending a new one you'd probably send that one in too in case they were deciding to throw out all the misprinted ones
I mean, that'd be sending both intentionally but not with the goal to vote twice
Just like how I ended up sending 3 absentee ballot requests because Trump got our initial ones invalidated
weary obsidian
surely the vote counter keeps track of if the person has a ballot counted or not and wont count the 2nd
foggy fern
I sent in the official one, found out we lost the court case, immediately sent one of the third party ones I had, then sent in the new official one too
Court order says they have to doublecheck
drifting arch
yeah
foggy fern
tie means win because Harris
opaque prairie
yep. that is the hope
foggy fern
I don't think that'll happen though
shut vine
surely the vote counter keeps track of if the person has a ballot counted or not and wont count the 2nd
Correct, a vote wont be counted twice, they check that manually in NV between counties for example
opaque prairie
but dems would have to win both special elections in Georgia, which would be difficult
foggy fern
Might pick up one of them but the other one wasn't looking great
opaque prairie
yeah i know, but the chance is there, which is more than there was last night
foggy fern
Even in a R+20 county in GA Biden just gained a couple hundred over Trump from mail in ballots
weary obsidian
@opaque prairie no, only ~30% voted blue on senate in GA, all those other red votes will just combine into the red candidate. no way that many will initially vote red then switch to blue
foggy fern
The other Georgia race was a lot closer than that
meager ice
foggy fern
Either Ossoff is more popular than Warnock or Perdue is hated more than Loeffler
opaque prairie
got it okay. well, i briefly had hope. thanks for explaining, i wasnt too familiar with how that would go
foggy fern
But yeah, I think at best Democrats pick up 1 vote in those runoffs
shut vine
Even if it's 49-51 it still gives Democrats a higher chance of passing bills they want to pass.
foggy fern
Yeah, there are 1-3 Republicans willing to cross the aisle on critical things
foggy fern
They at least won't be completely deadlocked
Only mostly deadlocked
Will Biden even get his cabinet approved?
shut vine
Also means if they try to push through absurd bills it's more likely to be stopped.
weary obsidian
republicans really had to be loyal under trump or suffer reelection risk. im really hoping theyll move back to voting on principles and be bipartian on bipartisan initiatives once trumps gone, and thatll help restore order
foggy fern
ha
shut vine
Neither party will do that for a long time I doubt lol
weary obsidian
i said hope
shut vine
You're pretty optimistic
opaque prairie
yeah i wasnt gonna count on it
weary obsidian
optimistic would be me thinking its going to happen, im only hoping it happens 😛
foggy fern
Breaking it was a multi-generational process, fixing it will be too
shut vine
That being said, 3 or 4 Democrats spoke out against Pelosi blocking Republican bills
opaque prairie
trump has also proven that he can just make people acting cabinet members and it doesnt matter, so i see no reason biden cant just do that too
shut vine
So there are about 3 on each side who are willing at this point I guess?
foggy fern
It's always been more accepted for the House to act like children
shut vine
Isn't the House more often Democrat?
foggy fern
They're kind of actually representative and are constantly running for reelection
foggy fern
If by recent history you mean the last century then yeah
shut vine
Yeah century is fine too
foggy fern
94 was the first time the Republicans controlled both houses, I think
Of course the Democrats of the 1920s don't have much in common with the ones today 😛
cosmic badge
Yeah, they're called Republicans now 😛
shut vine
Man, they must be pretty old if they were alive in 1920 and have switched parties. Seems like a wild conspiracy theory.
cosmic badge
You get the joke, don't be obtuse lol
foggy fern
I think the main thing they've kept from back then is Democrats are more for labor and Republicans are more for capital but really they're both neoliberal on that so neither are for labor
shut vine
I'm not sure what I'd consider the main difference between the parties
elder portal
"we were winning by a lot, and then our numbers started getting whittled away in secret"
uh, no, that's not how any of that works
responding to Trump's speech
shut vine
Well there are credible allegations made by citizens to look into, but he's being stupid about it
elder portal
what usually happens, as what happens every election, is there's a lot of red, then blue starts coming in. It's just slower this election because it's been made slower by interference
shut vine
Enough to investigate, not to conclude.
foggy fern
At least one of his lawsuits have been thrown out as being based only on hearsay
shut vine
Yea
elder portal
happens every election
foggy fern
red mirage is the term they were using this year
elder portal
"blue wave" or "red wave" is taking the country by storm
shut vine
lol
elder portal
slightly different thing
yeah, it's just that usually it happens within hours, and results are done by EOD or at most two days
shut vine
Anyway, my thought is, he should have just done what he can legally, if he fails, he fails, and if he then subsequently loses the election, concession speech.
The twitter and public statement stuff is over the top.
elder portal
he's not trying to play fair at all, is the problem
sure, what can be done legally should be, the the spirit of the thing isn't there
shut vine
Like if he said "We had reports of suspicious activity regarding the election, and if there is any validity we will trust the courts to resolve it".
I'd say good on him, measured
elder portal
this isn't "oh, there's something screwy here, let's investigate"
this is, "I'm losing, shit, I need to do something fast"
shut vine
Yea, we pretty much agree
elder portal
it's the sentiment it leaves
that's the issue
this is not the behavior we need from a president
it never has been
and it just shows part of what's been happening for the last four years
shut vine
I agree, I'll still be critical of individual points people make that I don't agree with though
elder portal
I don't think anyone's arguing against a fair election. Re-counting is great if it's neccesary
Biden also seems to agree, as per his twitter
shut vine
I still think he's been treated unfairly by the media, and they have deliberately tried to undermine him at every point in his presidency. Also agree with his point that Biden has been treated with kid gloves.
sand shale
so is the election like dead
elder portal
Biden's main stance for most of the day is that all the ballots should be counted
sand shale
nothing has changed since yesterday
elder portal
not yet
shut vine
Probably resolved by Monday.
elder portal
it usually doesn't take this long
shut vine
All of the legally cast ballots should be.
elder portal
but understand that the system will eventually go through
yeah, nobody's arguing on the Democrat side that legally-cast ballots shouldn't be counted
they're attacking the sentiment of "stop counting the votes"
the sentiment behind that movement is not in good faith
shut vine
Yeah that sends a bad message, in one of his lengthier statements he was talking about stopping counting what he thought were illegally cast ballots.
elder portal
that's what frustrates Biden supporters
he can talk about not counting illegally-cast ballots all he wants. Nobody can pretend that's what he actually means, though
shut vine
I never liked his use of Twitter as POTUS tbh.
elder portal
it's a good argument, nobody can or is disagreeing with the words
but it's made in bad faith
shut vine
Eh, there we'd have to disagree, that's super subjective, you can't really conclude one way or another except in a speculative way
He is a politician, so it's likely it's in bad faith
elder portal
the problem is logic slightly falls apart, here. You can make all the arguments you want about Trump being a sore loser, but it's difficult to define that type of behavior
shut vine
Just like when Al Gore challenged the decision in Florida, his legal team would have told him it wasn't going to work.
elder portal
you can't really make the statement that Trump is or isn't being a sore loser
shut vine
But that's speculative, no way to prove it
elder portal
so nobody is really wanting to
shut vine
About Al Gore I mean.
elder portal
which leads to Trump being more Trump and people assuming it's in good faith
when it really isn't
shut vine
I can't assume that either personally
elder portal
he gets a pass on a lot of bullshit he pulls because nobody can absolutely, definiteively say he's doing what he thinks is right
which frustrates the hell out of everyone
shut vine
Yeah makes sense
elder portal
you can pull up "this is what he said" and "this is what he's done before" all you want, but if people just hand-wave that all away you have nothing
shut vine
That's pretty much the same way people who didn't like Obama feel.
elder portal
not that hand-waving it away is good either, but it's frustrating
I've looked at the evidence and I believe that everything he's pulling right now is not in good faith
that's my stance
shut vine
Yeah, I can understand the frustration, and can understand your viewpoint
I don't have to agree with it, and I don't have to agree with anyone who says you're flat out wrong
shut vine
I try to be consistent when it comes to these things, obviously bias exists in me, as with anyone, but I actively try to be careful about it
elder portal
what have you seen him post on Twitter over the last couple days?
vs. Biden
I've been watching both through the dashboard
shut vine
So the recent "information" about the Biden goings on to me, look super suspicious, but it's not enough for me to say "JAIL HIM NOW!!", but think it's reasonable to investigate it
I actually don't watch twitter much, each time I open a post on there it makes me reload the page
meager ice
so what do you guys think about jr inciting civil war
shut vine
I think my firewall is blocking something causing issues
elder portal
if you look at Trump's tweets, can you honestly say that what he's trying to do is in good faith?
I'm not asking if it should be done
but if the reason he's tweeting these things is in good faith
shut vine
I don't think it is, but I don't have anything definitive, when he talks on video it mostly seems like he does, but still I'm not sure.
I don't generally trust any politician though
elder portal
it's difficult for me to justify, as well
shut vine
Usually works out as a reasonable policy
I have yet to see a politician I didn't trust, that I should have trusted
elder portal
we'll see, I suppose
or really we won't
we'll just have more evidence for either argument
shut vine
Well to be honest
opaque prairie
wait what did biden do this time
shut vine
The easiest way to tell for sure will be if Trump loses
opaque prairie
yeah GA is crazy
shut vine
He will either resist concession speech and try to exploit the constitution, or he will give up at some point
opaque prairie
also az is up to 90% in
elder portal
I hope he gives up peacefully and it all ends well
opaque prairie
gap is like 57k
shut vine
Technically there is still a world where if Biden wins, that Trump takes office in January
shut vine
It's more complicated than that
Technically if two electoral delegations for the same state come to Congress, my understanding is the election is decided via congressional delegation.
Which means Republican's decide.
elder portal
also not good
faint radish
pretty sure thats only for an EC tie
elder portal
I believe it's EC-related though
faint radish
yeah, thats a possibility basket...
shut vine
LOL
opaque prairie
ignoring the actual joke of that, obama looks like he aged 20 years in office
elder portal
poor guy
shut vine
Why isn't Trump there?
elder portal
¯_(ツ)_/¯
shut vine
I'm surprised that Bush looked so much older to be honest
He was so lazy early in his first term
shut vine
Like you can blame partisan issues on that but fuck he took so many vacations
elder portal
if you're concerned about that nation, you're going to take things hard
shut vine
Like 40% of his first 2 years was vacation
elder portal
honestly, if I were president, I might do the same
it's hard to settle into an ultra-stressful job
shut vine
If you can't get anything done I guess it kinda makes sense
elder portal
like protecting the country
shut vine
But looks so fucking lazy either way
foggy fern
That reminds me, I think Bush was our Boris Johnson
Either that or he had some cognitive decline going on
elder portal
I was too young to care but old enough to hear during Bush - from my own personal experience back then, which doesn't fantastically reflect my opinions now, he was okay
foggy fern
When he was running for governor of Texas and during his time in office he was a fairly well spoken perosn but as President he was this goofy person who used simple language and seemed to have a lot of gaffes
shut vine
Did you guys know Trump is the same age as Bush? And Biden is older?
foggy fern
Either he was playing a part to appeal to voters or something was wrong
weary obsidian
@shut vine heres your before and after of trump:
weary obsidian
he wears so much orange make up wouldnt notice any difference
shut vine
Still all that carotenemia..
In 2018 actually Florida's recount somehow lost 3,000 votes didn't it?
Yea I don't want chaos, though with American's I think it's inevitable
opaque prairie
"every legal avenue" "suing every state possible"
shut vine
He's within his right to do so, but every legal avenue is not only cost prohibitive but also insane, I'd hope that within reason, any problematic vote should be challenged.
I shouldn't say any problematic vote
I think you know what I mean though
Just not sure how to word it precisely
elder portal
if you disagree with "ensuring votes are legitimate" you would be in the wrong, but the problem is that's not the real reason it's being challenged
there's a fallacy for that
oak cloak
there is no precedence or evidence for the voter fraud trump is spouting. Defending him for that nonsense is ridiculous
elder portal
the entirely of Trump's argument is done in bad faith
meager ice
What do you think the ballot counters do
oak cloak
there are checks. Lots of checks. Happening right now, and have been for days, as is true every year
oak cloak
A recount wont help trump, what trump is looking to do is to get as many votes removed as possible by falsely claiming them to be illegal
opaque prairie
there are already republican and democratic observers at every ballot counting and voting location
oak cloak
his cause has nothing to do with keeping the election legal
elder portal
so do we
oak cloak
believing that is peak naive
shut vine
Well if his claim is false, it will fail.
elder portal
we also want to ensure all ballots are legal, and all legal ballots are counted. Everyone wants that.
nobody can disagree with that sentiment
meager ice
He's delaying the election result for no reason
shut vine
Of course, just with all the politicians who've challenged counts is about keeping things legal, it's about winning.
elder portal
but the reason for it, it's not good
meager ice
Actually there is a reason, intimidation
shut vine
That I do not disagree with.
elder portal
that's a harder sell
meager ice
Ballot counter intimidation
shut vine
Yeah ballots are cast, intimidation is not a good argument
foggy fern
shut vine
No one can change their vote now
foggy fern
😦
elder portal
at the very least his supporters bringing lethal weapons to counting places is not good
spiral basin
do the people counting have to take an oath?
meager ice
Not saying it's a smart move
shut vine
People counting do yes, also there are officials from both parties that are meant to oversee it
meager ice
Fascists rarely are smart
shut vine
Allegedly PA didn't have enough Republican officials
foggy fern
Trump's lawsuit didn't say anything about that afaik, he just wanted them to be able to be closer to the counting
shut vine
I think there was an allegation of the Republican officials in another county in WI or MI not being given access too
elder portal
what people are pushing against isn't the re-counting of ballots. It's that suing states and throwing a hissy-fit on Twitter makes it very likely that the reason for asking for re-counts is bad-faith
foggy fern
It was in Michigan he said there weren't enough
oak cloak
There's pretty good reason to be worried, Trump has shown over the past 4 years that he does not care about the rule of law and he does not at all have issue breaking the law or ignoring it. Other Republican leaders in the government has supported him and allowed him to do it as well. With how many people Trump has appointed into court, many of whom Trump believes will be loyal to him above the law (which we can hope is not true) it's very clear what his end-game is. It's rather unlikely for it to be successful since there's enough people in this process to stop improper court decisions, but it's by no means guaranteed when the current President and many other members of government have made their intention to do so clear
shut vine
PA too
foggy fern
Two of them were ejected, one for not wearing a mask and one for repeatedly using racist slurs
shut vine
Yeah I don't doubt, it's been fixed by the courts I believe
elder portal
dictators are not chosen based on intelligence. They fight their way to power using money and promises
rules for rulers is a fantastic video that explains why and how they work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs
foggy fern
PA less than 60k now
meager ice
Fascists gain power because people let them
elder portal
no, they gain power because the keys to power let them @meager ice
or new keys to power replace the existing
the video is worth a watch
elder portal
a revolution, for example, happens not because of the revolutionaries or the common people, but because the old dictator lost control of the keys
foggy fern
Biden needs about 63% of all outstanding votes in PA to win, he is getting more than 70% on average so far
meager ice
Nearly 80 percent
elder portal
and the new dictator promised greater wealth to those that survive the coup
shut vine
I mean, most dictators are politicians, and pretend to work for the people, but end up not being so much
foggy fern
And most of the remaining votes are in a county where he has been getting 90%
elder portal
the video explains the reasons for that @shut vine - it really is worth the watch
oak cloak
Rule #0 of that video is what lots of progressives don't seem to understand
oak cloak
If you don't win the election - if you don't have power - you can do nothing
shut vine
Some things said by Harris could be considered totalitarian in nature, people expecting evil people to all be the same (acting dumb), is not always a good measure of who and who isn't going to be totalitarian really.
oak cloak
Lose the election because you just can't stand to vote for Biden because he's not literally Jesus, and shit only gets worse
shut vine
Realistically restricting how much a totalitarian leader can do with their power if elected is absolutely important
Sociopaths are really good at fooling people into thinking they're not a sociopath
weary obsidian
Some things said by Harris could be considered totalitarian in nature,
examples?
shut vine
Biden called her on using an executive order, said that wasn't constitutional, her response was "instead of saying no we can't, say yes we can".
weary obsidian
link?
shut vine
Let me find the video, was in one of the DNC debates
oak cloak
maybe she learned from Trump
shut vine
I thought you had to be 30 and older to be a Senator?
oak cloak
But I'm more comfortable with a dem like that than a rep - dems are beholden to progressives and must listen to what they want or they will lose. Progressives are finicky as fuck voters
shut vine
Didn't know she was a child and not responsible for her own actions.
oak cloak
Trump doesn't give a shit what anyone thinks and neither does his supporters give a shit about what he does
The first statement was a joke
shut vine
(still looking for the video)
shut vine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UWVO0Trd1c
That's the debate, I'll try and find the timestamp though
shut vine
You know egg, this is Trump, has he ever done anything gracefully?
foggy fern
PA is now closer than AZ
shut vine
Yeah both AZ and PA have narrowed quickly
GA margin is 3,486, only 18,936 left to count
GA going to be certifiably recounted
opaque prairie
absolutely yeah
shut vine
You can also see Harris in the VP debates do a big "gotcha" smile in the VP debates after she talks about the 200k+ dead.
opaque prairie
to be fair pence looked like he was gonna die in those debates so
shut vine
That speaks more about her personality than totalitarianism but think it's somewhat relevant.
meager ice
mystic ermine
anybody else confuse pence for putin for a moment
shut vine
I have tbh LOL
mystic ermine
sharpie in pooper is a way of life and I stand by that
meager ice
You are obviously just sexually oppressed
mystic ermine
Michigan AG is oppressing my fetish 😦
shut vine
I would think it'd make sense if a persons vote wasn't counted to let them correct it to put this to bed, but also think the deadline is important too. Kinda torn.
I wonder why mail in ballots are counted last?
oak cloak
mainly state legislatures which signed laws to say so
meager ice
Its because of the republican senate conspiracy
weary obsidian
typically its not many, so prob falls into dont bother if it wont matter
shut vine
Yeah just curious what the reasoning is, I would guess it's based on when they can start counting, some states allow pre-counting mail ins, some don't.
meager ice
They wanted to screw the biden voters
oak cloak
yeah probably that is the history
shit like PA was 100% to screw biden voters
but that's probably not true for other less controversial states
meager ice
30k votes in PA will start counting tomorrow
Because the trump supporting company ordered to deliver the ballots (intentionally?) Delivered them to the wrong address and the law requires them to process them on Friday
shut vine
AZ will mostly be wrapped up by 9 EST
weary obsidian
AP says 100% of NC is counted, NYT says its not, but both show same #'s
shut vine
95% of expected
weary obsidian
they might as well call it
shut vine
I'd guess the state overestimated votes due to mail ins?
opaque prairie
yeah NC is red at this point
shut vine
Or maybe they got lost?
weary obsidian
id assume 100% = we have nothing left to count until mail ins trickle in
and i fucking hope the post office would say "yeah we still got major buckets to bring you"
shut vine
Well states know how many were mailed out, so that number would be included
weary obsidian
at this point it would hopefully just be stragglers, which isnt gonna swing anything
oak cloak
it can be 100% of ballots they have now
but some states allow mail-ins to arrive a few days later as long as they are post marked in time
so maybe that affects it
shut vine
Yeah that's what I'm thinking
5% of votes left uncounted are mail ins.
I have not found a state which didn't have stats on number of mail ins that were sent out avaialble
meager ice
Up till Friday they can be received
oak cloak
ah so we'll have the final number tomorrow, that makes sense
shut vine
Technically the final official count will be the Tuesday the 17th.
shut vine
Then the EC stuff happens.. and that is a rubber stamp mostly if someone does a concession speech
Otherwise it's a whole thing
oak cloak
lol Aikar begging for NC to have more biden votes left to be counted - it's not gonna happen Aikar, I'm sorry 😦
shut vine
I mean, it wont affect him much unless he's in an undecided district
But pretty sure 100% of the districts have been decided, it's just the general vote left
Yeah all districts are crystal clear decisions
Other than NC-1 which could go red if like 100% of the votes are red. Everything else is literally impossible
Biden's lead shrinking again in AZ
46K
Lost 0.9% over the day
opaque prairie
that was the 100k? officals from the county are supposed to speak soon i didnt think they sent them in
meager ice
Looks like he will win Georgia
shut vine
Yeah it was a minute ago I think
He might win GA and lose AZ, interesting
GA is a much better one to win
Yeah definitely
So close that whoever wins will request it
98% with 3K gap
weary obsidian
@oak cloak um thats the opposite of what i said
I was saying they should go ahead and call it because its a done deal at this point
shut vine
WI, MI, and PA are likely to as well
weary obsidian
they might as well start the GA recount, as thats like the most crucial one a recount can change lol
shut vine
Actually Trump gave up on MI recount I think
meager ice
If biden wins by over 1k votes i don't think recount will do anything
oak cloak
oh gotcha. Well I know you want a blue NC sooo bad lol
opaque prairie
next election aikar, next election NC can be blue
weary obsidian
i think GA is a bigger salt in wound than NC
oak cloak
looks like we won't get another update from AZ until 11EST tomorrow
shut vine
For serious though, 2000 and 2004 elections are the closest modern ones I can think of.
2000 was like 272 electoral votes, and Florida was obviously highly contested.
shut vine
Yeah Jackson would be one of them.
He was elected by a Congressional delegation vote.
Think he only got 30% of the vote.
Yeah officials in Florida fucked up big time
If they had have submitted the count, then revised it, that mess would not have happened
faint radish
didnt NYT go back and do an independent recount in florida and determined it was called correctly?
foggy fern
Didn't Adams get elected via bribery?
foggy fern
iirc the majority of the proposed methods to count the spoiled ballots had Bush ahead but not all of them
shut vine
Realistically the process done incorrectly be several counties, the officials who fucked up should have been jailed.
Regardless of if the count was correct or not
foggy fern
If Arizona does flip back to Trump a tie is still possible
If Biden gets Georgia and Trump gets everything else
shut vine
Well that's a Trump win if so.
Unless Republicans honor the popular vote, but doubt Democrats would do that either
foggy fern
Unless Biden goes the Adams route 😉
shut vine
Adams route?
foggy fern
I think he was the one that had a tie and bribed people with jobs in his administration to vote for him
foggy fern
Or, not a tie, no one got a majority iirc
Something like that, we've had at least one election go sideways and end up dependent on a small enough group of people they could be bribed
shut vine
Can House delegates be given jobs in executive?
faint radish
if they resign yeah
shut vine
So theoretically he could give Republican's losing their seats a bribe
Since it's current Congressional delegations that decide
foggy fern
No? Almost certain it's the new one
foggy fern
I know it's the new one that certifies the Electoral College vote
faint radish
well if its a tie it def goes to congress. not sure what you mean barty
foggy fern
It's like the second thing they do after being sworn in
shut vine
Yeah it's by state delegation, i.e most states wins
faint radish
right ok
foggy fern
Yeah Congress is even more lopsided than the Electoral College, each state gets one vote
shut vine
It can go to Congressional delegation vote even if it's not a tie which is the worst outcome
faint radish
how would that happen*?
foggy fern
If the EC has a winner it takes 2/3 of the House to try to do anything but certify it as valid, iirc
oak cloak
You need 270 EC votes
shut vine
Constitutional flaw that basically can be used as a coup d'etat
oak cloak
With 3+ parties you can have no one get majority of votes without a tie
Which has happened before
foggy fern
Yeah I think that's what happened with Adams
All I know for sure is they fucked over Andrew Jackson
shut vine
It can happen with a majority too which is the worst case scenario.
foggy fern
weary obsidian
ah how so many of trumps own tweets come back to bite him
oak cloak
isn't there a subreddit dedicated to that
shut vine
A philosopher, a poet, what can't he do.
foggy fern
Ah yes, the birther movement, that was the time Trump made his racism obvious to people who don't pay attention to NYC
drifting arch
GA gap less than 2K
opaque prairie
biden needs 63% and he wins
foggy fern
drifting arch
wtf
foggy fern
Specifically FBI DIrector Wray and Dr Fauci, iirc
drifting arch
what the actual fuck
shut vine
I hope they have a copy and charge him, that's dangerous af
drifting arch
its still up on FB
foggy fern
It was on his podcast, they were talking about who should be fired and he said firing them wasn't enough
shut vine
I mean.. it's dangerous to be calling for violence or joking about it at all in this climate. Things are really heated.
It's not okay.
foggy fern
They talked about it for a little bit, it wasn't a one off line
Arguing over whether that or hanging would make more sense for traitors
oak cloak
jfc
deft bronze
Georgia is flipping 🤞
brisk cradle
Oh dear. I just saw that only about 2,000 votes separate Trump from Biden in Georgia.
drifting arch
yep
brisk cradle
Seems likely to me my map will be wrong, as Georgia will probably secure Biden the White House
Pennsylvania and Nevada though...
drifting arch
PA is closing quite fast as well
oak cloak
are we getting any new updates in AZ?
drifting arch
Biden is, albeit more slowly, actually gaining in NC too. ~71k
shut vine
Tomorrow at 11AM EST
shut vine
Just GA on it's own at this point doesn't secure the Whitehouse is why I was saying.
brisk cradle
I'm going off the AP calls, they currently have Biden at 264 EVs
shut vine
GA gives him 269
drifting arch
AP still seems to think Biden has it. Unless they just don't want to retract their call
brisk cradle
So Georgia's 16 EVs put them over 270 easily.
drifting arch
69 nice
shut vine
Correct.
Barty that is.
AZ's current trend is like GA's, it puts Trump in the lead at the end, like GA's put Biden in the lead at the end.
AZ also had the same number of early votes for both parties
oak cloak
he's probably going to win NV though, and PA looks more likely every update we get
shut vine
Well 0.1% gap in them
oak cloak
yeah AZ could definitely go red, but trump does have to make up a deficit and doesn't have the same kind of bias that other states have for biden with mail-in ballots
oak cloak
ah, that will help for sure then
shut vine
I think GA and AZ will be down to the wire, both will probably end up recounted
PA most likely the same
brisk cradle
I bet the Trump supporters are going to be lashing out at the Jo Jorgenson supporters because Jo Jorgenson cost them Wisconsin and possibly Georgia
shut vine
LOL, and ew.
Honestly that mentality is bad, minor parties only have a chance if people start voting for them
opaque prairie
no barty, trump pulled out of that i believe
brisk cradle
Last I heard, no. Though I think the Trump campaign will furiously ask for a recount in Georgia.
foggy fern
Attacks on Libertarians are already a thing on /r/conservative
foggy fern
I'm okay with attacking people who vote for third parties (verbally, obviously)
If you understand the reality of FPTP you should know not to do it
You vote for perfect and lose okay
shut vine
I don't think people should be attacked in any form for who they vote for, but people have the right to criticize
foggy fern
It's certainly a principled stance but you'll be riding those principles straight to hell
shut vine
Would need to have a proposition to change the constitution probably
foggy fern
Nah, each state can decide they want to do ranked choice
Although iirc Maine got smacked down on some part of it
They use it for Senate elections, at least
shut vine
You mean in primaries or in the general?
brisk cradle
Maine has already done RCV, though Republicans hate it. They hate it even more since RCV was responsible for sending a Democrat to Congress where a Republican had won the most votes but RCV allowed Jared Golden to win a seat in Congress.
foggy fern
I think it was somewhat paradoxical, they could use it for national elections but not local ones due to the wording of the 15th Amendment
drifting arch
Cobb, Taylor, and Gwinnett counties in GA have stopped counting for the night
shut vine
Yeah Maine had a proposition for RCV did it not?
brisk cradle
The problem is that Republicans kind of had themselves in a corner thanks to their former ascerbic governor Paul LePage.
He got voted out and replaced by a Democrat.
foggy fern
Ah, no, the argument was that it violated the state constitution but the law won in the state supreme court
brisk cradle
RCV means the GOP's favorite tactics don't work as well, and then they have to learn to say "make me your second preference if you don't like me"
foggy fern
PA down to 36k
brisk cradle
Though I am very sure Democrats are more incentivized to go for RCV over Republicans.
foggy fern
Oh, weird, the court left the law standing but didn't say whether it could apply to local elections or not
brisk cradle
I don't think RCV disadvantages any one particular candidate or party.
shut vine
RCV literally just gives an advantage to the people.
brisk cradle
It's very possible for a conservative to win an RCV election - just look at Australia.
shut vine
If certain Republicans don't like it they're just being silly.
oak cloak
RCV potentially benefits major parties since it eliminates the spoiler effect, extremely heavily benefits minor parties since it eliminates the spoiler effect
however it allows minor parties to grow
which major parties don't like
shut vine
I agree with Demon's assessment.
foggy fern
Almost no one currently in power will vote for something that makes them less likely to stay in power
meager ice
man fox news still on sharpiegate
brisk cradle
RCV isn't compatible with the way the Republican Party works. Democrats can live with RCV, and the centrists may even like it so that the DSA people can go make their own party instead of polluting their caucus.
meager ice
🤦♂️
oak cloak
votes aren't coming in fast enough, so not much is changing until GA flips
sharpies in butts are fun to talk about
shut vine
How is RCV going in NY and CA exactly?
brisk cradle
A few local municipalities in CA use it (most notably San Francisco)
shut vine
I think CA had a proposition this election right?
brisk cradle
They always have propositions
oak cloak
not for that topic, no
that had other bullshit like replacing bail with computer algorithms 
shut vine
LOL wait what
oak cloak
like yeah, fuck bail but god damn did you have to go and fuck it up that hard
shut vine
So instead of giving bail they use an algo to decide if you get out?
foggy fern
I wish bail being based on your means was constitutional
foggy fern
A judge can decide to lower it if you're poor but a law can't say it should always be lower
shut vine
It's up to the judiciary to decide what is appropriate
I kind of think that makes sense, it's a bit hard to have a law to cover every situation
I also think deciding if someone gets bail on an algo is a bit precarious
foggy fern
No, I mean I think the argument is it violates due process
oak cloak
nah, it strongly hurts the poor while very very rarely ever affecting the rich
imo bail shouldn't exist at all, violent crimes and probably a specific list of felonies stay in jail, otherwise you go free until your court date, regardless of income or ability to pay. Obviously with a judge able to change the decision if necessary
shut vine
Oh yeah, I'm a fan of that, violent crimes remanded, or high flight risk criminals.
oak cloak
that's almost what CA had
shut vine
California Proposition 16. End Diversity Ban Repeals a constitutional provision that made it unlawful for California's state and local governments to discriminate against or grant preferential treatment to people based on race, ethnicity, national origin or sex.
What the actual fuck lol
oak cloak
except instead of defining a list of felonies that everyone agreed on before signing it into law it was just "and then an algorithm will decide"
like jfc
That's poorly worded, Prop 16 is to end the ban on AA
drifting arch
that's affirmative action james
foggy fern
A proposition back in 1996 banned affirmative action, they want to bring it back
shut vine
Ah so it's trying to illegalize the discrimination of AA?
foggy fern
Yeah
oak cloak
yeah, most of the country
foggy fern
But not in state institutions in California, including the university system
oak cloak
CVR and organizations like the NAACP strongly supported Prop 16
shut vine
Is your uni state run?
drifting arch
i supported 16 but it failed anyway
shut vine
Are you in CA?
drifting arch
i am
shut vine
Barty I meant
drifting arch
o
shut vine
Oh okay
drifting arch
PA gap is at 26K
oak cloak
it's important to actively support minorities, not doing so continually pushes them down further, which history has shown us plainly
I also voted for it but RIP
with a title that bad
no way it would ever pass
drifting arch
GA gap is still decreasing but more slowly, now 1.7K
shut vine
Ah yes, soft bigotry of low expectations.
foggy fern
Totally stole this joke: Aren't you supposed to call a doctor if your election lasts this long?
AA is meant to counteract our history of slavery, segregation, and racism
meager ice
damn Covid causes excessively long elections too!!!!!
foggy fern
It shouldn't need to be a permanent thing, it's supposed to be a hand up to make up for the boot coming down for so long
meager ice
the list keeps getting longer
oak cloak
500 years of racial injustice takes a long, long time to make up though
will take many generations
This is a fantastic talk by an expert on the matter https://youtu.be/BGjSday7f_8
It's a long talk but it's extremely well worth the watch
yes they do
drifting arch
petty racist
oak cloak
foggy fern
Some women who can also use a nickname that makes them sound masculine on their resume
drifting arch
kek
foggy fern
Gets them more responses
oak cloak
if you can't even be assed to consistently indent your code on a job application code snippet then eeeeh probably not a good fit
drifting arch
fair point, i just didn't want to make it seem like i was actually comparing race as an issue akin to code style
smoky hedge
Idk if it’s not with an IDE and during an interview I’d be lenient
oak cloak
no, not during the interview
like, do it in your own time and submit it when you're done
foggy fern
MSNBC has a "Kornacki Cam" during commercial breaks
shut vine
It's a good illustration tbh, character and merit are more important than skin color.
deft bronze
Apparently there was a guy who worshiped trump, and when trump got covid he locked himself in a room and starved himself. He died a week ago
like legit prayed to him
thought he was a god
drifting arch
im not surprised
deft bronze
lmao
drifting arch
radical trump supporters are something else
deft bronze
this dude was in india tho
shut vine
There's that woman who used Trumps comments about a drug to murder her husband, and blame it on him.
foggy fern
Didn't she end up in the hospital from taking that stuff too?
Was she just trying to make it look authentic?
bleak echo
"semi expert"
shut vine
I think so, think she gave her husband like 15 times the amount though.
bleak echo
are you in grad school barty?
meager ice
drifting arch
I lost my shit when I heard that ^
shut vine
She had either tried to kill him in the past, or was suspected of killing her previous husband too.
shut vine
Yeah, Democrats are urging absentee's to fix their vote if it was rejected before the deadline tomorrow.
meager ice
If america collapses, its going to be great for world peace
smoky hedge
Ngl that's like the one thing I think America does right - the ability to check if your postal vote was counted or not
I'm always hella paranoid about my postal votes getting lost in the mail etc, and there's no way for me to tell
shut vine
Yeah should be able to check that too
bleak echo
oof
so uh anyone know anything solid about putin supposedly resigning?
all i've seen on it so far is my roommate showing me a destiel meme tweet
so yeah
opaque prairie
pretty much the sun supposedly had an interview with someone who talked to putins girlfriend,
and then NYP picked it up and a bunch of tweets sent it
also PA gap is down to 26k
bleak echo
lol
drifting arch
sounds about right
fast flame
shut vine
Well technically fraud would need an additional element, intent to deceive. So if they postmarked them themselves that would constitute fraud. If one managed to get through and they did not do that, that would actually prove the fraud happened at the post office or electoral office.
Which is what one of the theories covers.
meager ice
im pretty sure this is still illegal
weary obsidian
shut vine
If Kenosha For Trump was doing so under the direction or recommendation from an elected official I'm pretty sure it is.
Assuming the email is real, though I didn't see one there.
weary obsidian
Twitter
shut vine
^ lol yep
weary obsidian
i fucking love Bernie
shut vine
He really needs to do a big stuff you to the DNC, and either just not fall in line or leave them tbh.
weary obsidian
well with the 2 party system, he had no choice but to be a fake dem
shut vine
What they did to him in 2016 was disgusting.
weary obsidian
i doubt hell try again in 2024, so he can just go back to independent
shut vine
Yeah but he has enough support now to just ignore their "rules".
brisk cradle
As much as we would love to, you can't do that without dissolving the two-party system. That's why the DSA never runs people on a DSA ballot line and instead supports their members in Democratic primaries.
If AOC was on a DSA ballot line only, she would not be in Congress.
cosmic badge
Only way to dissolve the two-party system is legislatively if both parties agree.
Which, neither would ever do.
brisk cradle
None of them would agree to do it.
shut vine
RCV would eventually do it probably
brisk cradle
That is, if you managed to convince enough states to adopt it. Right now it's just Maine that adopted it on a state-wide level.
shut vine
Yeah, of course
weary obsidian
yeah RCV is the answer
shut vine
RCV gives the people more power
brisk cradle
Furthermore you'd need to try and drag red states into it, and they're the least likely to do it since the GOP makes no predilections about listening to the people.
shut vine
Reducing power of government over the people is generally a good thing
brisk cradle
Democrats are probably worse on this front: just look at Florida. The party rejected a candidate who pushed for a $15 minimum wage and yet it passed in a state that went for Trump fairly comfortably.
shut vine
Wasn't Bernie more popular than Clinton?
weary obsidian
and if RCV principles were in place, stuff like the GA runoff vote wouldnt need to happen, if you vote for R1 as choice 1 and R2 as choice 2, if R1 wins over R2, people who chose R1 as choice 2 and R1 as choice 1 can combine votes, and if someone chose R2 as choice 1 and dem as choice 2, they move to the dem. run offs handled in the same vote
fuck yeah lol
people were ENERGIZED for Bernie both times
brisk cradle
but Biden? people were wondering why he was even in the race at all, well until the centrist candidates got pummeled by Bernie Sanders before SC
weary obsidian
you can disagree with Bernie on his agenda, but cmon even republicans have to agree Bernie is just a downright good person.
cosmic badge
Yeah Bernie's got a pretty good track record
shut vine
Because he's not horribly corrupt. If the DNC was actually listening to the people, the secret emails about Bernie would probably not exist, and they'd probably have put him on the ticket.
opaque prairie
bernie would have gotten so much more youth turn out
cosmic badge
Strikes me as perhaps one of the most honest dudes in American politics today.
Who knows, maybe behind the scenes he's evil 🙂
shut vine
I don't like his policies but he seems like a more legitimate person than the regular sluts that call themselves politicians.
brisk cradle
The drawback that Dems go back to on Bernie is that "the attack ads write themselves"... I think this could've been overcome, though I'm pretty sure he would have a hard time winning Florida.
opaque prairie
i dont think he would have needed florida
weary obsidian
his policies are pretty simple, ensure everyone has fucking healthcare, everyone has access to education, ensure the workers are protected and paid a fair wage.
shut vine
But Clinton and Biden seriously? People are calling out for people like Bernie.
brisk cradle
Bernie wouldn't need Florida to win. Very possible Bernie could snag some traditionally GOP states.
weary obsidian
those rural gop states is whod benefit strongly from Medicare for All. well minus those already on it....
brisk cradle
Bernie is the only Democrat who I think could've won Ohio.
opaque prairie
i can pretty much guarantee that bernie would have doubled or more the 18-29 voter turnout, my age group is truly pissed as the establishment
cosmic badge
I can see a lot of young people not voting this election because they see no practical difference in either candidate.
shut vine
I personally think, if the DNC continues to nominate candidates like Biden and Clinton, you're going to see someone worse than Trump.
brisk cradle
DNC is guaranteeing that another member of the Trump family will run for president at some point. My money's on Don Jr.
opaque prairie
biden and clinton are the acceptance of the overton window moving right, which is really bad
meager ice
Byte don't you know bernie is an evil socialist
weary obsidian
I had really hoped the DNC learned the risk of running a weak candidate from 2016, but sadly they didnt
meager ice
almost as bad as biden
weary obsidian
they should of asked biden to step out
brisk cradle
Biden will win this by sheer luck
shut vine
I don't think they're weak candidates, they're candidates that are generally looked on unfavorably by the majority.
opaque prairie
biden won this by pure hate for trump, they dont win if repubs run anything more moderate than literal fascism
shut vine
^
shut vine
He probably would not have won except COVID
weary obsidian
i define someone who is a 'not trump' with nothing to be enthusiastic about, one where you can actually agree with right wing insults on them over.... a pretty weak candidate
shut vine
That's how bad he is as a pick
cosmic badge
So in a way, if you factor in COVID, it really was luck.
brisk cradle
Not like 1932 when FDR could've just gone to sleep until the day after Election Day and still won the election.
meager ice
some people say
brisk cradle
Trump is no Herbert Hoover, though.
meager ice
covid was god's miracle for biden
shut vine
Which he milked the hell out of
opaque prairie
my honest opinion, i think covid helped trump. i think it helped bring people who didnt usually vote out of the woodwork, wether it be social distancing or mask mandate, these people had policies forced on them in a visible way, that they probably didnt see in a long time
weary obsidian
i dont think covid swayed votes much really.
shut vine
Well the riots helped Trump
brisk cradle
I doubt they swang enough votes either.
weary obsidian
I think the difference is people saw 4 years of trump and it just energized people to get the fuck off their ass and vote
shut vine
Not because he did anything major, but because of the silence of the DNC
brisk cradle
Responding to riots by literally doing fascistic things, that's something people pay attention to.
shut vine
Well denial of the DNC
weary obsidian
@brisk cradle only by the left who already was against him. it energized the right to support him more
and i doubt someone was gonna sit on their ass before those actions and those actions was the "ok ill vote now"
brisk cradle
yeah, I can understand that
shut vine
I doubt they swang enough votes either.
The riots actually coincide with a 15% jump in the polls for Trump.
cosmic badge
How much is left in GA? Looks like it's going to be the deciding state potentially.
shut vine
It's not concrete obviously.
brisk cradle
14k I heard.
opaque prairie
14k yes
weary obsidian
everything he does just further pushes the left to resent him more and the right to love him more
opaque prairie
supposedly they were gonna finish 4k from clayton tonight, but seems thats not happening
brisk cradle
And it's safe to say that Georgia is probably going to flip. From red to blue.
opaque prairie
i wouldnt say its safe, but its more likely than not
shut vine
Maybe, 16k to go with a 2.5k lead
weary obsidian
the centrist is gonna be a case by case basis of course, which will ultimately be "is trumps behavior important enough to vote against him even if you agree with him policy wise"
shut vine
Well a centrist would be judging mostly specific policies I would think. Rather than if they like a candidate or not.
brisk cradle
I mean, the GOP avoided a drubbing but it seems the Democrats' Sun Belt strategy may have bore some fruit in Georgia, though they're going to need to fix their Florida problem.
weary obsidian
biden is weak but im not aware of anything to "fear" of him from him being president, hes damn near on the center line, id be worried mostly of him pushing more right stuff
opaque prairie
im not 100% sold on florida being this red
i am pretty suspect of shenanigans this election
shut vine
Pretty big gap to decide to recount though
opaque prairie
oh no there wont be a recount
brisk cradle
But to use more Georgia puns, they can't now sit back and eat the peach and drink their Coca-Cola.
brisk cradle
Coca-Cola is based in Atlanta.
weary obsidian
so, this is the south, people drink tea here
opaque prairie
florida isnt relevant at this point, i am just saying, florida swung pretty far from expectations, and that is weird in itself, polls are usually accurate, and while i get this is a funky election, still seems worth looking into
shut vine
Yeah makes sense
brisk cradle
Okay, they can't just sit back and drink their sweet tea.
shut vine
Florida doesn't have a good history of doing elections well
opaque prairie
hence my suspicion
brisk cradle
Florida man does Florida man things. With a reputation like that how does that state even function?
shut vine
Most of it related to incomitance
They had 3,000 votes go missing in 2018 during a recount
brisk cradle
meager ice
brisk cradle
Verdict: Satire but Probably True
I have now discovered a new subreddit to like, I guess
opaque prairie
yeah that one is entertaining but becomes pretty scary after a while
the sheet amount cognitive dissonance there
meager ice
cosmic badge
GA needs to hurry up. I can't refresh any faster.
weary obsidian
i love that subreddit
my wife told me about it a while back
along with https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfAwarewolves/
meager ice
I try to avoid these subreddits
it just gets too depressing
then again I regularly consume /r/collapse
plush crypt
What news to wake up to. I've never seen such a childish person, let alone politician and president, as Trump and his completely insane accusations
cosmic badge
Oh well 😦
lethal rose
What did trump spew since those newsstations decided to cut him short?
oak cloak
claimed he won the election and biden is illegally attempting to steal it
lethal rose
Oh, just the usual.
meager ice
drifting arch
Looks like GA and PA started counting again?
GA gap down to 1267
PA gap down to 18042
meager ice
source?
drifting arch
AP reporting
meager ice
not seeing that
cosmic badge
AP just might be vetting the incoming counts
drifting arch
they're reporting 2,448,081 for Trump and 2,446,814 for Biden in Georgia. Subtract Trump from Biden
cosmic badge
Which probably slow the updates a bit
