But replacing one overconfident asshole with an incompetent idiot who had somewhere around 40 years being in DC just turns moderates/conservatives right out the door
#politics
dusky raft
shut vine
It's insane to think the politicians on our "side" shit rainbows, I'm sick of that as well.
dusky raft
Id rather have trump for another 4 more years when see the wraith of the democrats within a few months
shut vine
Well, if you look at how well the economy was doing in the US pre SARS-CoV-2 it's easy to see he was doing some good at least.
dusky raft
since republicans arent pushing for major additions to government
which I think we need to reduce
shut vine
I am also in favor of the strong stance against the CCP.
They've been evil as shit for too long.
dusky raft
oh yeah, but I dont think we should pull a 2001 on china
I also think we should really consolidate intelligence
we have way to many intelligence agencies... well, we have way to many federal agencies
shut vine
I agree about intel. Not sure we can avoid a 2001 with China. I think they will start if we don't.
I'm 50/50 about believing his stance on endless wars. On face value it seems like he's trying to end them.
dusky raft
the problem china faces with its military is that it isnt experienced
shut vine
However he has dropped more bombs in this term than any other presidential term.
That could be with the intent to end them, but it's easy to argue either way.
dusky raft
not to underestimate them, but india was able to give more of a fight on their border than china
shut vine
Also he doesn't seem to be getting much cooperation from the military.
dusky raft
biden?
dusky raft
the military has always been on the fence, considering it gets a massive amounts of funding due to being in wars
shut vine
I lean towards believing it
Yeah, military industrial complex. They buy the politicians and powerful people in the military, and the media.
It would make sense for them to resist him for that reason, or because they legitimately believe it to be a bad strategic move.
dusky raft
I wish we can get the complex to refocus from war towards space, but that doesnt sound likely in a long time
shut vine
Well that or at least reign in the amount spent for other countries.
Spend it at home.
foggy fern
The economy was only doing better than the trendline he inherited from Obama because he was juicing the shit out of it with tax cuts and free money from the Federal Reserve
Even though it was the part of the cycle where taxes and interest rates should be going up to prepare for the next crash
Basically he was just another George W Bush even though before the election he said taxes would be going up on rich people
The time to juice the economy like that was earlier in the cycle when Republicans told Obama to fuck off whenever he asked for things 😛
End result was that after the initial catch the falling knife recovery efforts we left it entirely up to the Federal Reserve to recover the economy so it took a while
shut vine
You have to remember last election he beat the polls in some states by 9%.
near glen
Way to many kids just vote the same shit their parents vote for
Stuff like that doesn't even exist here in germany
Parties aren't allowed to do shit at schools
That's totally off limits
Still, that has no place at a school here
shut vine
Yeah I agree with that mini, also a lot who vote based on what their teachers tell them rather than investigating on their own; in both cases.
mystic ermine
just the vocal ones
near glen
Idk about murica, but generally, universities are always more left here
mystic ermine
I mean, some work places are so politically intolerant that people just shut up about it or go OTT
near glen
But not about parties
shut vine
I think it's an egregious wrong, it comes over like brainwashing if you ask me.
near glen
Just mindset
shut vine
I would think the same if Republicans did it, so we're clear.
near glen
I don't think you can bribe the entirety of teachers with a promise for a bit more money, lol
mystic ermine
Same over here, labour generally shouts about throwing cash out but I don't think it ever actually happens when they have the thrones
Part of the horror over here is that labour generally does jack shit, whereas our """conservative""" party does stuff, they just fuck stuff up
shut vine
Of course not, politicians are basically the same, more so in American politics.
shut vine
When was the last time one party held Executive, House, and the Senate?
mystic ermine
Well, our keeps having rows over racism, etc
near glen
Which is now second largest party in germany
mystic ermine
Which is the typical same BS that the DNC has, but, erm...
mystic ermine
God, some people I speak to on the internet would literally flip shit if they saw the way me and my POC mates act towards one another
shut vine
Yeah, well that's just it, most things like this are a negotiation. You and your friends are fine with it, no one else needs to get involved in that.
mystic ermine
my whole hatred of it is the whole getting offended for others aspect
near glen
Well, americans are hyper sentitive
shut vine
When people fight for someone else's cause and that someone else is not fighting themselves, it disgusts me.
near glen
But, they also have a different last than we have
shut vine
Well at least if they don't say "hey there is actually a problem".
near glen
Systematic racism in europe is very different from systematic racism in the US
shut vine
I think everyone knows what I mean though.
Do you think low expectations of a particular race can be racist? For example thinking they cannot achieve anything in life or it will be too difficult without government intervention?
mystic ermine
Yes
near glen
Strictly speaking, the concept of different races is racism
shut vine
Yeah that's part of what I was referring to.
near glen
You can't group ppl by the color of their skin, that's just not how ppl work
mystic ermine
Hasn't affirmative action actually proven to be harmful to the people it's supposed to be helping anyways?
shut vine
I believe women of color also receive more benefits from the government if they are single mothers than white women. That could potentially incentivize fathers to leave.
near glen
Wat
near glen
affirmative action is so dumb and is basically saying because your native American you can get accepted anywhere because so few native americans make it
@autumn lotus or, view the from this way, because your minority gets systematically discriminated, gov steps in to help out, level the playing field
shut vine
Affirmative action is a systemic discrimination.
mystic ermine
The issue is that they aren't leveling the playing field
shut vine
By definition.
mystic ermine
They're setting poc up to fail
near glen
How so cat?
shut vine
Is your argument that by lowering the level of effort for POC's, that they reduce incentive for them to try? ANd possibly the knowledge of that discrimination makes employers more wary of hiring them?
mystic ermine
Because they lower the bar to entry towards people who aren't ready or interested, which leads to statistically higher drop outs, which leads to people leaving their education likely in debt
near glen
say your SAT scores are lower than mine by 100 points and you apply to the same college as I do and everything else about our grades and achievements are the same
@autumn lotus well, again, not a american, I don't know specifics, but maybe my scores are lower because they system puts me at an disadvantage, and am actually as capable as you?
shut vine
Yeah, Noel Pearson. The soft bigotry of low expectations.
I think affirmative action should be replaced with school choice.
near glen
The point is that the way qualifications are measured is flawed because it puts certain minorites at an disadvantage
mystic ermine
There's defo deeper societial issues, especially in the states; It's just a complex issue to solve, which is part of why I support investment in disadvantaged communities to help raise the bar
near glen
Also, I am not saying I agree with any of this, just trying to give another perspective
mystic ermine
But, you have to question if those measures you're taking to improve people coming in instead of essentially setting them up to fail
undone raft
iirc the idea of affirmative action was that some minority groups have lower socioeconomic conditions and that puts them at a disadvantage for receiving the proper education to score well on nationalized exams.
shut vine
Well the general way employers measure qualification is on merit. If you lower the merit of something, i.e. effort, you're likely to devalue that thing.
near glen
Lemme give you an example, a have a friend who only God a spot in uni because her parents are both working class
She is more intelligent than me, but without this help from gov she wouldnt be able to make it
shut vine
So the government gave her a scholarship?
Because she's smart, not because of her skin color?
undone raft
@ima you forget that national exams are not exactly accurate measures of intelligence or success
near glen
No, because gov wants to help out kids from working class
shut vine
That's how it is supposed to work, and what we're advocating for, merit, not skin color.
mystic ermine
I don't think that anybody here is against stuff like extending a hand to disadvantaged people in order to pull them out of their "situation"
shut vine
If someone is smart, it's beneficial to the community for a government to make sure they're well educated.
near glen
Ok so it's ok for poor white girls but not for black boys?
mystic ermine
Nobody is saying that
shut vine
No, absolutely not.
near glen
they see their race and immediatly assume they are disadvantaged
@autumn lotus well, because statistically, they are
undone raft
I mean who's to say that admissions only look at race. Affirmative action states that race can be a factor, not the ONLY factor
shut vine
That's a straw man as Cat kinda pointed out.
near glen
Simple stuff like having a black sounding name makes you measurable less likely to land a job
That's a fact
mystic ermine
I mean, there's two different things here
my brains off, but
There's the convo that AA is hardly a magical fix and creates further economical damage to some in these communities
shut vine
@undone raft you're correct, however all of the aspects it considers are not merit based, they are based on identity.
We're saying identity should not be a factor in admission.
near glen
Well, it's a bandaid fix, of course it's not perfect, but it's better than nothing
shut vine
I actually think it's designed to keep people in the positions they are in.
near glen
@shut vine identify is why you are at an disadvantage tho
shut vine
No it isn't, situation is.
mystic ermine
Then there is the aspect of diversity quotas which lowers the bar towards a community in the aids of meeting that quota, which is not a solution and falls into the first topic, but it nocks others who could potentially enter due to general class limits in order to target that action
shut vine
There are plenty of people disadvantaged that do not fit an criteria of identity typically associated with disadvantage.
undone raft
I agree
shut vine
I am for scholarships, however they should be based on merit. People who are intelligent should be well educated, and I am fine with the tax payer helping them out of poverty in that way.
I can agree with that, it's situational, not identity based.
near glen
It's hard for me to discuss stuff like This, because, I just tried to think about the last time I saw a black person here, and it bet I didn't this month. Those issues don't exist here and/or aren't visible to me, that's why I try to compare them to stuff I can relate to, like my friend from working class, or the proposed quotas we discussion for women
undone raft
There should be a better substitute that looks at the specific conditions providing disadvantage rather than using an association of an identity characteristic to a particular disadvantage (e.g. the assumption that certain races associates with certain socioeconomic conditions). Not to say that they don't, but it's a heuristic that may not apply in all cases.
near glen
Well, wouldn't you argue that women are under representated in stem?
mystic ermine
Part of the horrors in IT is that we get all the basement dwellers...
near glen
Look around, how many women are in this community?
shut vine
I am fine with women getting STEM scholarships if their aptitude is for the STEM field.
near glen
I am lucky to work in s team with 35% women
mystic ermine
What am tryna "paraphrase" is the aspect that we often tend to get people who make oft remarks
shut vine
That would be cool as long as they are good, but same goes for men, if they are not any good it's infuriating.
mystic ermine
women are defo under represented in our field, but that issue goes back to teenage years and even more
near glen
One is a friend of mine and we talked about this before, she was so often actively discouraged of getting into IT, it's insane, and then the horrors of a job interview for an IT company as a female
shut vine
I did work with an intern last year and she was really good.
undone raft
I think it's a very cultural thing about women in STEM. Whether it's because certain cultures have certain gender expectations or whatever. I don't mind the promotion of women in STEM as long as it's not forced upon people who do not have a passion. I'm all for displaying role models for a younger generation to break away from a cultural expectation.
near glen
"wait, you know how to build a computer?!"
mystic ermine
I could count the number of females on mc CS course on one hand
"Wait, aren't you afraid you'll crack a nail?"
shut vine
Well, it's a pretty psychologically accepted fact that generally speaking men are more interested in "things", and women are more interested in "people".
shut vine
Interest often determines aptitude or has a pretty big impact on it.
mystic ermine
We filled lecture theaters, there was like 5 tops
near glen
Yes, that's true basket
But something happened since then
Back then, women were on the front of engineering
mystic ermine
See, over here IT is somewhat of a shitty field in schools, as well as the girls in our group generally opted for something else over IT
saying that, my IT class was literally 10 people tops
near glen
I had girls in my IT class at school, but the teacher failed to do anything productive so everybody who didn't know stuff by themselves lost
shut vine
Which is fine, they should not be pushed towards IT unless they want to.
undone raft
iirc that was because computing back then was more vigerous meticulous work than imposing theory. Back then the false idea was that women could not be "that intelligent" to be a part of the theory and design teams, but were capable of doing the calculation work.
mystic ermine
Well, I remember seeing some documentaries, and it was generally a room full of women almost with books and mechanical calculators
near glen
Yeah it can be. Tier 1 support.
@shut vine am not support, am as backend as you can get. I still need to talk to coworkers, customers, clients, other teams, coordinate, plan, think ahead, etc
shut vine
Yeah, I'm pretty backend too.
mystic ermine
Well, people skills is something people in IT are often shy of afaik
near glen
Idk, it helps to talk to ppl who are actually affected
Like, I am sure it i would ping haylee in here she would be able to tell some horror stories
shut vine
You can't not have people skills in IT these days.
Or at least here, it's getting very hard.
mystic ermine
I think a lot of it also falls down into some of these fields often requiring "out of work" time
near glen
That's also bullshit, I have good coworkers who don't do shit outside of work
shut vine
But the amount of face to face time a tier 1 does vs what the average IT staffer does is: tier 1 -> daylight -> everyone else
near glen
That's something the community forced on us, "wait, you don't have a side project, are you even a real passionate developer?!?"
mystic ermine
You're saying that these people have 0 things they toy with outside of work?
mystic ermine
and, well, I mispoke
I don't think I meant requiring as much as "requiring"
I mean, you can get without 100%, but the general impression I tend to see is the whole "your basically stuck to a computer"
shut vine
Most people who do well in any field have a related out of work hobby.
That or they live and breathe work.
near glen
You don't need to spend your free time on programming to be a good programmer and not all good programmers program in their free time
mystic ermine
No, but you're generally gonna be somebody who has interest in relatable fields
near glen
The ppl I think about right now don't
shut vine
That's pretty unusual
near glen
One is an aggro vegan and spends every second in his garden
opaque prairie
i dont think its that unusual
near glen
The other one lives for her family and church
Etc
It's just this false impression this industry gives you
shut vine
Well from my experience it is, so maybe our anecdotes just differ. Interesting.
near glen
We have around 400 developers here, I bet half of then didn't open an IDE at home for the last 5 years
Are they all good? Hell no
But I don't think there is a clear relation between being good and having side projects
mystic ermine
What I'm saying is that this is generally the inflection that our work environment gives off
"all people in IT are basement dwellers", etc
shut vine
Typically people are only exceptional at something if they're passionate about it, which usually shows outside of work.
near glen
That's just part of the toxic impression that keeps many ppl out of their industry
mystic ermine
the images of stuff like that generally put people off a field, I can imagine being one of the weird kids didn't help the reflection of the IT industry when I was in school
near glen
You can be passionate 8 hours a day about something and then do smth different
mystic ermine
The issue is that we need to take steps at a younger age to beat the cycle
near glen
The one thing I would agree with is that you have more experience if you have side projects
Or could have
shut vine
Just psychologists would likely argue that it's rare for that to occur, I'm pretty sure I read several articles about it, though I can't remember specifics.
mystic ermine
School programs are getting better, especially with stuff like MC being as mainstream as it was and the programs introduced around it, but there is defo more to still be done
Well, I've long forgotten the name of it, but there is the concept that peoples brains are wired differently
near glen
It will gradually improve as our generation raises kids
shut vine
It could also be a difference between specialization and broad knowledge.
mystic ermine
It's why we often look across at people and question why they're such an idiot in maths, but, maybe maths just doesn't click for their mind as much
Yea, you can teach it, but if their mind isn't wired up for it, it's just gonna be stressful to them, etc
near glen
The whole gender roles model thing isn't as badly wired into our generation as it was for our parents
shut vine
Yea it's improving a lot.
mystic ermine
How many people in here would say that they don't tend to look at solving their problems in the work place logically?
shut vine
Think they need to do more for young boys, the focus has been on young girls lately, and that is showing statistically in the level of education.
At least in my country and the US, not sure about Britain or Germany.
mystic ermine
Well, am 25, so, years out
shut vine
What kind of problems?
mystic ermine
Like, issues relating to your "primary" job description
e.g. you have project X, how do you work on it
shut vine
It's arrogant to assume you're looking at it logically, but generally I aim to look at problems logically.
I think generally I do a reasonable job, based on how long it takes me to solve a problem
near glen
Not sure what your point is with that cat
mystic ermine
different fields apply to different mentality/personality traits
near glen
Are those related to gender tho?
shut vine
Also the amount of instances I go back to old code and refactor is low, mainly because it usually ends up pretty good the first time.
near glen
Or because you don't know better, lol
shut vine
Or what I would say is comparatively low.
mystic ermine
Well, yes, studies show that men and women generally cater towards different traits
near glen
Code can always be refactored
mystic ermine
scandanavia, the country touted as being one of the most gender equal societies, the predictions that the workplace gender split would equal out hasn't come to fruition
shut vine
I meant more specifically refactoring post merge.
near glen
I have over a decade of experience now, 5 years in a professional 9 to 5 environment, and I don't think I have written a programm yet that I don't want to rewrite
And thats not because of time constraints
It's the fact that after you are done, you always know more compare to before you started
You never stop learning
shut vine
Of course, I used to do that a lot.
near glen
Why did you stop?
shut vine
Loosely coupled design patterns make a huge difference to that for me.
Generally if I refactor something it's single purpose related due to expanding the scope of an application.
near glen
Maybe your applications are small enough that you can think about every detail before you write it
mystic ermine
preplanning defo helps creating code you don't feel too bad about
near glen
I wrote 10k loc last week, that's mostly meaningless but should give a bit perspective of the shit I have to deal with
mystic ermine
most of the horrors come as scope/featureset increases
near glen
Well, applications age
shut vine
Of course.
mystic ermine
Issue is that for some feature sets, you'd need a hefty migration to pull off super cleanly
shut vine
My major issues with refactoring are that...
mystic ermine
But hey, somebody wants this by the end of the week
shut vine
When someone says I need x y z, but they actually need a-z.
near glen
Am lucky enough that I got a good boss and I can just say fuck you to dum deadlines
Can not be time constrained on the stuff I do
And mandatory quality gates also help
I can't not write unit test, else I couldn't release
shut vine
Ah also test driven development helped me reduce refactoring a lot.
shut vine
While it mainly prevented bug fixing, it also made me think about how the code flowed a lot more.
It also does promote single responsibility principle
near glen
What industry to you work in james, just out of interest?
shut vine
I actually work at a large school entity, most of my work revolves around systems integration, databases, and automation.
near glen
Ah
shut vine
I think you'd technically define me as DevOps mixed with DBA
near glen
I work at an insurance, I handle all our websites and the costumer portals
The backens for all websites are 90% written by me, it's kinda insane
shut vine
Interesting, do you have any COBAL guys?
mystic ermine
they all died
shut vine
I know it's primarily banking, but some insurance places use it too
near glen
Plenty cobol, ye
shut vine
I really feel for anyone who does COBAL
near glen
Most of our actual buisness logic for calculation and shit is cobol
But we moved that for the first sectors already
But also all documents are going thru cobol
I can actually read and write cobol, it's a really easy language
mystic ermine
I wonder, are you guys aiming to migrate from it, or is it there to stay?
near glen
It's mostly just the horror of navigating a main frame
shut vine
Yeah, do you happen to know why it is COBAL? The reason for that language existing is usually why.. it's easy for business managers to understand but not easy enough for them to write.
Is it legacy or is it that reason? LOL
mystic ermine
mainframes
near glen
We are migrating everything eventually
But, before that, we will move our mainframe into the cloud
mystic ermine
At one point in time, COBOL was basically your only real option
near glen
How ever the fuck that's supposed to work
mystic ermine
Well, there are virtual mainframe instances
shut vine
I do have a k8s cluster in my basement if you want to rent it 😉
mystic ermine
I'd imagine it would work the exact same as VPSes do, just a fuckton more expensive
near glen
Back in the days, there was only IBM, so if you wanted a computer, you got a zOS mainframe and wrote cobol
mystic ermine
But, this is enterprise stuff anyways
near glen
Imagine this for a second, we pay per cpu cycle
near glen
Ours a bit smaller
And blue actually
More like this I guess
Those are cooler tho
We got like 10 of those I think
shut vine
The other two I'm completely unsure if I think the blue one is taller or the orange one.
near glen
And they all blinky blink cause they filled to the roof with storage
shut vine
Ah, we have 3PAR storage
near glen
Last time I asked we had 4pb of storage on our SAN
shut vine
We have ~500TB
near glen
But the coolest thing we have is a tape drive robot
shut vine
Everyone keeps saying tape is dead, silly people.
shut vine
Yeah for cloud obviously makes no sense. For on site, it's going to be quite a while.
mystic ermine
I doubt too many new people are jumping at tapes for storage
especially with the cost of cloud storage
near glen
Let's get this back political
McDonalds and burger king are supporting a facist regime, doing a genozide
Both deleted the tweets hours later
shut vine
They're supporting Trump? How dare they! Joking aside.. which country are they supporting?
Armenia?
near glen
That's an image of qarabag, a region inhabited by armenians, that is currently getting invaded by azerbaijan
With an azerbaijan flag
Azerbaijan is supported by turkey in this war, in a surprise to noone
They attacked cities with cluster ammunition
In other news, apperently turkey is planning a offensive against kurds in syria
shut vine
Ah, Azerbaijan claims Armenia is fascist. Though Turkey seems totalitarian. I don't really know enough about either country to speculate, going to skim some stuff quickly.
shut vine
Sleep well
near glen
But basically, azerbaijan is trying to finish a genozide started long ago
It's about religion btw
In a surprise to noone
shut vine
Well currently they're both claiming a breach of a cease fire.
near glen
Azerbaijan broke the cease fire an hour after it went I to affect, just like they announced the last election result the day before election
shut vine
It seems plausible that is the situation, however speculation is often bad.
Armenia has massacred people in a genocidal fashion too
During the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, both Armenians and Azerbaijanis became victims of pogroms and ethnic cleansing, which resulted in numerous casualties and displacement of large groups of people.[3] By 1992 the conflict had escalated into a full-scale war. In February 1992 the capital of Karabakh, Khankendi, was under a blockade by Azerbaijani forces.[13]
Seems like a Palistine-Israel type situation, everyone killing everyone.
The event became the largest massacre in the course of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict.[2]
shut vine
Yeah thanks.
near glen
Where it was clearly started by azerbaijan with an offensive
It's an interesting conflict
Since it's russian vs turkey
shut vine
Just seems currently like we should be careful about assumptions based on the history.
I'll read it though
Oh well.. that complicates things a lot.. Russia being involved.
near glen
Well, russia is defending territory against turkey
Turkey has been fighting wars all over the place
Syria, lybia, artsakh
shut vine
Well analysts believe that is likely, however they're not certain.
It's complicated is all I'm saying
near glen
Turkey is also aggressive against the EU again with what's going on in france
shut vine
Yea
near glen
Erdogan doesn't understand the difference between muslims and islamists
But oh well
I wonder when that dude will finally vanish
Sadly he's pretty young
mystic ermine
Just tell the US that they have oil
shut vine
Yeah okay so the analysts are basing the information on Armenia already holding the disputed territory, and thus would likely be maintaining the status quo.
near glen
The cruel thing about Erdogan is that he was once good
The build up turkey from the ashes
And now he's looking to turn it back into ashes
Yeah okay so the analysts are basing the information on Armenia already holding the disputed territory, and thus would likely be maintaining the status quo.
@shut vine well, artsakh is an independent republic
Just not universially accepted
shut vine
Yeah, the area they're fighting over was controlled by Armenian military though is what I mean
shut vine
Russia has maintained good relations with Azerbaijan and has sold weapons to both parties; however, Russia possesses a military base in Armenia as part of a military alliance with Armenia, and thus is obligated by treaty to defend Armenia in the case of a war. Like in Syria and in Libya's ongoing civil war, Russia and NATO-member Turkey therefore have opposing interests.
near glen
Armenia is geopolitically important to russia
shut vine
Russia probably has a huge incentive for them to war.
near glen
Russia needs to stand ground against turkey
shut vine
If Azerbaijan attacks that military base they have justification to deploy more military there.
near glen
I don't think azerbaijan is attacking armenia
near glen
They are attacking artsakh
shut vine
Oh and Artsakh's.
near glen
Idk, just another pointless war over religion
- insert muslims bad stupid argument here *
shut vine
Armenia has bombed several Azerbaijani cities outside of the conflict zone using ballistic missiles, including Azerbaijan's second-biggest city, Ganja. There have been 4 separate ballistic missile attacks on the city since the start of the conflict, killing 26 civilians and injuring 125.
near glen
After azerbaijan attack artsakh with cluster ammunition
shut vine
Correct, but one war crime doesn't mean another should be committed.
near glen
Both aren't war crimes per se
shut vine
Deliberately attacking civilian targets is not a war crime?
near glen
Even the cluster ammunition isn't really, not all countries signed that treaty
Anyways, I really gotta sleep now
Have fun digging in this mess
shut vine
`Other serious violations of the laws and customs applicable in international armed conflict, within the established framework of international law, namely, any of the following acts:
Intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population as such or against individual civilians not taking direct part in hostilities; `
Yea sleep
near glen
I don't know what exactly armenia attacked
Not sure how good of a source for stuff like that wikipedia is
I bet the article is highly disputed anyways as both sides try to edit it
near glen
It's still editable to ppl who a certain level
wispy vigil
thanks for whoever pinged me. i was looking for it. 😂
deft bronze
Was the soviet union and real communism @clever osprey?
I have heard yes and no
I see
Ok
So communism hasn't really been tried?
Socialism doesn't seem to work
shut vine
So socialism has been tried, but communism hasn't?
cloud sonnet
oh no
shut vine
Yeah China is working fine. Anyone who says it doesn't donates their organs for harvesting.
deft bronze
China seems to be working just fine.
@clever osprey oppressing people, reeducation camps, no it's not
shut vine
Like I mean, if you like to have someone to tell you to think a certain way, or have your organs harvested from you while you're awake instead of letting someone tell you to think a certain way, China is a Utopia.
deft bronze
Extreme socialism always seems to degenerate into dystopia
shut vine
You see, Marxism is great in principle, but you forget the nature of people, and specifically the nature of politicians.
deft bronze
People become drunk with power, refuse to step down, turns into dictatorship, etc
shut vine
Nearly every single person is out for their own benefit and survival.
You have to fight that in order to not be an outright cunt.
Karl Marx
deft bronze
If that was the case no one would have kids because they wouldn't have to share their wealth with them.
@clever osprey people have kids because of non economic reasons
shut vine
I mean, plenty of psychological studies show this, it's hardly a controversial idea
Would you cite a source that shows a socialist/communist system that didn't devolve into economic hardship for the lower class or mass murder?
mystic ermine
procreation is a basic human "need"
The major intent is to carry on your gene pool
shut vine
North Korea, China, Soviet Union, Venezuela, Cuba.
deft bronze
@deft bronze But why would someone ever decide, "let me have kids and share my hard earned wealth on them" if every human is naturally out for themselves. Wouldn't that be contradictory?
@clever osprey kids give happiness, people don't want to die and not have any ofspring
shut vine
Like I mean, every single one I know of is a shithole country which infringes on basic human rights.
bleak echo
@clever osprey when are you planning to take over the governments of the world?
mystic ermine
Because there is a paternal bond to your offspring...
shut vine
Oh
deft bronze
@mystic ermine They could simply throw their kids into the adoption system, why do mothers share their food with their young ones, why do they read them bedtime stories? Why do they drive them to school every day?
@clever osprey mothers are emotionally attached to their children because they are parents
wispy vigil
lmao
deft bronze
@deft bronze This is a good point. I'll use a different example. https://www.unicefusa.org/about/publications/annual-report-2019#:~:text=Most heartening of all%2C since,million in Fiscal Year 2019. Here you can see people donated 8.3 billion to UNICEF. There is no psychological attachment, why would they do such a thing?
@clever osprey social pressure to do good
mystic ermine
you have your last 5 bucks, what do you do? buy food, or throw it in a donation pot?
deft bronze
Food
shut vine
People donate all the time to make themselves look better than they are.
Many charities are predatory too
deft bronze
@clever osprey back to the point, when has socialism given rise to a successful society?
shut vine
Why not simplify the question, is there a society in history where Marxist ideology has not resulted in the lower class living below poverty, or in the systematic silence of dissent?
deft bronze
1 success for how many failures?
shut vine
With either imprisonment or death
shut vine
Greece, Rome.
deft bronze
Byna short bit I mean hundreds of years
shut vine
Yes
deft bronze
Not 20 years
shut vine
How many people were killed in that half a century for having differing political views? And what is the longest period in that history where they were not killed for that?
shut vine
I don't accept his admission that it works.
worked*
So Marxism is not able to survive without external non Marxist countries?
The sanctions against Cuba, they were trade sanctions correct?
So, if Cuba was fine without external countries, we cannot blame those sanctions on the failures.
So if the US had not decided to avoid trade with Cuba they'd be fine? They needed America?
How many people were executed by Castro for political dissent in the first two months btw?
Oh okay
I thought you meant post his appointment.
So if an economy is socialist, who owns the industries etc?
So the US government not allowing a country to buy their products is what Cuba's issue is?
Strangely Cuba's government doesn't publish poverty data.
Based on economic modelling, experts say it's at least 5 percent and a maximum of 26 percent.
I mean yes, but can't they survive without the US market/products?
Employed vs not employed doesn't indicate proverty vs not-poverty.
Cuba seems to publish all of the good figures.
I would expect that they have the rest of the world to sell/buy to/from. You seem uneducated, you realize the US is a small part of the worlds population right?
The statistic of 5-26 is not published by Cuba, it's been derived by economists. That's why there's a huge gap.
I expect a country should be able to survive without their current biggest trading partner by negotiating with other countries.
mystic ermine
Well, apparently cuba basically bans those types of people coming in
shut vine
I hold all countries to that standard.
You cannot force Cuba to do business with everyone.
Which type of people?
mystic ermine
I'd imagine that the reason it's a one party place is also coz you're not legally allowed to critique the government and all that fun stuff
as well as the fact that the state controls the majority of the media too, apparently
shut vine
73% of all business is controlled by the Government yea.
But that's up to Cuba to figure out with the US.
You can't blame other countries for the failure of another, you can disagree with a countries actions.
But that country must do what it must for its citizens to survive.
shut vine
How many political parties are there in Cuba?
Ah right, if I execute 11 million people and have a constitution that says that's wrong, we're fine.
Er, oops?
It was meant to be sarcastic
My point is that having something IN your constitution, does NOT mean the constitution is enforced.
Giving someone a position due to their gender is discrimination.
mystic ermine
Not really been interested in US politics until the past few years, but, not really sure of a strong woman contender for the spot
shut vine
That's a red herring.
Yeah, seems like Cuba hasn't either.
Most of them only served for 1 day too.
Well I say most, but I mean 5.
Maybe Cuba would have more female leaders if you had term limits.
Also shouldn't Miguel step down for a female?
They've already had 17 males, now they need 17 females.
plush crypt
57/2000 US senators are women, while Cuba has half their parliament being women.
I feel I need to point out there's only 100 senators
if 57 of em are women, that's a majority
though senate.gov says there are currently 25
plush crypt
tough luck, every country ever was very sexist; 1/4 is a lot of women in this day and age
mystic ermine
To date, 57 women have served in the United States Senate, with 26 serving at this time
shut vine
I don't think it's necessarily sexist just based on numbers. But that's not me saying there is no sexist element.
shut vine
I'd be interested to compare the number of females running vs the number elected.
plush crypt
so is it 40% or 60%?
plush crypt
Wyoming was the first political area to give women's suffrage; Norway was the first country. This was just over 100 yrs ago. Every country was sexist, nothing new; approx 1/4 being women in today's Senate is a great sign of the US taking matters into their own hands
shut vine
Yea, women should have equal opportunity to run or vote.
plush crypt
Wikipedia is not a source for anything remotely based on facts
shut vine
That is not going to equate to a 50/50 split, and forcing that is not combating sexism in any way.
plush crypt
post that in any kind of polsci channel and you'll be laughed out; wikipedia is never a source
shut vine
Also making 50% of something female does not prove a lack of sexism.
plush crypt
this is to 2008; we all know gender roles have also changed quite a lot since
shut vine
Yea they have.
You can't force a change in attitude on people either.
That just does not work.
plush crypt
And not enough with that, this is a single study nonetheless. There will be opposing studies for approximately the same timeframe
shut vine
I mean, we can probably go back in Cuba's history and show atrocities they've committed too.
Slavery was only abolished in Cuba in 1886.
mystic ermine
talking about cuba before the end of 2016: bad
shut vine
Abolished in USA in 1862.
mystic ermine
talking about america since it's existance: good
and many dozens of people hate the past leaders in the US
shut vine
No one here brought up America's entire existence other than you. This is a straw man argument.
You are a very dishonest person.
plush crypt
I don't see the actual issue here. What is debated? The US' equality today, since 1776, since colonial times?
shut vine
Yes, you brought up the past.
Correct.
Dude, your screenshot literally shows that the question was about "It still is".
plush crypt
I don't see the actual issue here. What is debated? The US' equality today, since 1776, since colonial times?
shut vine
I do not think my name is zzzCat.
plush crypt
pl. you from what I can gather
I've got many passionate hates when it comes to the US, but calling it inequal today is just wrong
shut vine
So, you bring up the US history, the past. zzzCat admits that yes the past was fucked up.
You say "it still is", he asks "Why so?"
How are you answering his question by bringing up the 1700's?
plush crypt
Let me rephrase then, gender inequal within the defined and so-called "normal" binary, cis genders.
shut vine
And if I said that maybe we shouldn't be doing enslavement in Alabama in 1760 I would also be laughed at being in the majority does not equal being correct.
@clever osprey
Ah okay
Fair enough
You have been discussing the entire US history when you count senators etc though.
plush crypt
The majority is correct when it comes to sources though. Practically everyone agrees Wikipedia ain't a source, and it's your job to convince us with valid sources (read: peer-reviewed studies, academic papers, etc.)
plush crypt
how long has cuba even existed, 50yrs?
you've given 1 study which doesn't even apply to the timeframe you're defending Cuba for
bleak echo
lol
plush crypt
Sorry for not being able to remember every single fact about Cuba?
bleak echo
(though also i'd say inequality still exists in quite a few ways in the US proxi lol)
sand shale
?ban @clever osprey politics troll
red mountainBOT
Jámie#8444 was banned | politics troll
shut vine
Yeah he felt like one
bleak echo
oh no if you start banning one troll you'll have to ban half this channel
plush crypt
I recognise that and rephrased, zml ^^
shut vine
I don't know if banning was appropriate but not my server
Yeah I'm gunna look crayzeeeeeee
bleak echo
ah fair it was a stupid conversation so i didn't read too closely
shut vine
lmao
plush crypt
always delusional, james...
mystic ermine
I mean, there's aspects to it which are still in need of improvement, but, hey, women can speak against the government as freely as males, without being thrown into a cell, wooo
plush crypt
we're delusional together though
bleak echo
hooray, the bare minimum has been reached
shut vine
Inequality is part of life realistically.
mystic ermine
I think he didn't bother to read the human rights report
shut vine
Unjust inequality is what should be looked at mostly.
plush crypt
always
bleak echo
yeah
shut vine
Like people should have the same opportunity, not the same outcomes.
mystic ermine
I just vote that we eject proxi into space with a kitty cannon
shut vine
Merit not skin color or giblets
open ruin
it's time.
/kittycannon
shut vine
Proximyst has been muted for the remainder of the game
mystic ermine
wow, we're like, just under a week from the US elections
zenith basin
very funny so hilarious lols
shut vine
I would feel bad about that, except he was supporting a country that appears to silence dissent.
mystic ermine
I mean, I can't say that I disagree entirely with the US's decision
Like, it's total ass that it affects citizens and that type of thing really shouldn't be on them
But, when a government is literally as restrictive as cuba and speaking against them can get you in a cell? It's like, you know...
shut vine
Yeah I mostly agree, also a country can't rely on every other country to solve their economic problems.
shut vine
Interesting take on recent "gaffes": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyV_j1aH_cc
A note that his two aneurysm's in ~1988 do put him at increased risk of vascular dementia.
deft bronze
Aww I missed him being banned
weary obsidian
@shut vine "share with biden voters", lot of us arent voting 'for biden', but 'against trump'
shut vine
I didn't share for that reason, shared because it was an interesting take.
weary obsidian
but yeah biden is full of gaffes and questionable mental health.
i really hope he wins and then resigns immediately after inaug
shut vine
If he has been diagnosed with dementia he doesn't qualify for the position of president I don't think either.
opaque prairie
theres no way you drag biden for mental health and dont drag trump, but yeah as someone voting against trump, i would prefer someone more mentally sound
weary obsidian
never been a follower of harris but her record on progessive policies is at least decent.
shut vine
Though I'm a little unsure about the specifics of that area of the constitution.
weary obsidian
@opaque prairie trumps mental is a completely different matter. he isnt the way he is due to mental disease, hes just batshit fucking insane and truely believes the shit he says
shut vine
She's very authoritarian though.
Trump is facing the same issue in time. You can see there is something going on more with Biden is all I'm saying.
I think most of that with Trump is he just blurts everything out. He has less filter than most of the politicians we've seen.
opaque prairie
thats sounds more right, its hard to decipher at face value
shut vine
If you look at the constant dilation of pupils, it is another sign. Ruben doesn't say it in a pejorative way, in fact he goes out of his way to say that it seems sad to him, and that it's like the Democrats and his wife are using him.
tough cedar
if he didn't want to run why would he?
shut vine
In other news Jack Dorsey testified under oath before the SJC and claims the censoring was because of their anti-hacked material policy (basis was apparently they could not verify the source even though it was made public in the article - also even though their initial claim was misinformation, seems they're no longer claiming this), and admitted the censoring was in error.
I mean, there are probably a multitude of ways he could have been pressured into doing it if he had dementia, or without.
I don't think Ruben was trying to convey it as fact, he quite clearly mentions it is what it seems like to him.
tough cedar
ah, i shouldn't comment too much on it because i didn't watch the video
shut vine
Nah it's fine.
He explains why he thinks it in part, you'd have to look at all of his coverage to get a better idea, but the video is a fairly succinct summary.
I agree that it would be sad if he had dementia.
tough cedar
I don't think he does, or if he does it's super early on
shut vine
Regardless of if you agree with him or his past, or believe the current scandal. No one should have to suffer dementia, and it would be an egregious wrong to take advantage of someone in that position.
I am not sure I mentioned about his two aneurysms, a single one gives you an elevated risk of vascular dementia.
Combined with his memory issues (about people close to him), and there are a lot of hints to it.
I'm no expert in dementia, I only found out recently due to this situation that there are multiple specific types. Not sure about the varying.. early symptoms.
Vascular dementia accounts for about 10-15% of cases.
tough cedar
yea idk I'll just trust that he's not being taken advantage of
and that he's doing it because it's something he wants to do
shut vine
According to the NHS these are the early signs:
slowness of thought, difficulty with planning, trouble with understanding, problems with concentration, changes to your mood or behaviour, problems with memory and language (but these are not as common as they are in people with Alzheimer's disease)
Considering the memory/language is less common, it's possible you're right.
I prefer to hope that as well.
Both because I wouldn't wish dementia on anyone, and would absolutely find it abhorrent that someone would take advantage of someone in such a public way.
Knowingly anyway
tough cedar
near glen
We going for a really light shut down here in germany, mostly to just reset the new infections a bit to give our health care system a break
Cause you know, letting ppl die isn't acceptable to use, like it's acceptable in the US
plush crypt
We've now forced kids not to meet up more than 5 at a time. But kids still have to meet up in groups of like 60 in a room. And the rule doesn't apply to birthdays
Masks are also discouraged, because fuck knows why
its almost as if good measures may help with the covid booming situation...
near glen
Well, statistically, we have found schools and kindergarten to not spread the virus
plush crypt
this includes teens & adults in what you'd call Realschule & Berufschule
we've got almost 900 per 100k in the capital, yet no mask requirement 
At this point I'm sure they'll ban masks before requiring them
near glen
@viscid saffron the president just declared covid to be over while ppl are still dying left and right. You do jack shit to keep your citizen healthy and protect them from this pandemic
Fighting it
plush crypt
covid is over for him :p
near glen
Vs letting ppl die
And since our deaths go up, for making for strict measures again
I love how he has no response to this
If you see these stats, there is no way you can defend your gov
plush crypt
mfw US has like 20-25% of all covid deaths
Like what? The morons who insist on dropping the mask?
I can promise you Germany has them
near glen
Well, those things clearly weren't enough
So you have to try harder
Also interesting how the first thing that came to your mind wasn't actually about health but about economy
Germany is the biggest exporter in the EU, we have ton of trade and travel here too
Sure, but to me it seems like you don't even really try
I don't see you closing resterants and bars to stop ppl infecting each other
You know, like every other country did and does
Fuck that, in germany it would depend on the state too, but merkel got all heads of state together and talked to them and now all states do these measures
Federalism is not an excuse for a lack of policy
Again, I do realize you got more states, but still
Trump clearly isn't invested in protecting the health of his citizen
There is just no denying of that
He more or less ignores the biggest threat we have this whole century
shut vine
I think the governors have a lot to answer for too.
near glen
Don't most gov just follow the lead of them president tho?
shut vine
Several states sent recovering infected to aged care facilities.
No, most states have refused basically
Sending infected to aged care is a huge mistake either way
elder portal
Fed government and local government are two very different things
States have a ton of power
I've heard foreigners talk about states as similar to different countries in the EU
Still a lot of fed carry-over, but for example some states here legalized marijuana while it's still illegal federally
Which does end up in some confusion and bullshittery. If you get pulled over by a federal police officer and you have marijuana in a legalized state, you can still be federally charged
Can, but I don't think I've heard of it happening
But that's one example
One of the biggest sticking points in the constitution is that individual states retain a lot of power over what happens inside them. There's always a bit of a power struggle between fed and state regarding laws, but states win most of those
near glen
I do realize that. But I am sure if if you would an actual leader, you would find some kind of consensus
near glen
I am not talking about sometimes, I am talking about the biggest domestic threat since like idk
In hard times, you need a leader that is able to bring the country together. Trump is not a leader, he is a divider
elder portal
It depends on the federal leader and the state's leader, at that point
Republican state leadership will be very unlikely to follow a democratic federal leader
And vice versa, really
But I get the sentiment
near glen
I just don't understand how that man can sleep at night, considering under his administration this year 250k ppl died, many of which could have been saved
elder portal
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
near glen
I am sure dem leaders would follow the gov if they would propose measurements
elder portal
Ask him, if you ever get a chance
near glen
He will prolly declare the war in China or something stupid like that
He doesn't understand that a pendemic is a demostic threat
elder portal
There's some nuclear options yet to be played
I hope they never are
It would undermine everything using those
near glen
In what Universum exist nuclear options against a virus? 😂
elder portal
Some of them would shake the core of our country, and that has good potential to kill many people
I'm talking about retaining power
If anything were to be used, it would be to retain power
Everything else is secondary
elder portal
Yeah, I'd rather not have a civil war over an election
near glen
I totally expect trump to declare his victory on the first night and then fights thru courts
elder portal
Nothing civil about war, anyway
near glen
Then the US falls as low as belarus 😂 😂
Were we as the EU are forced to state publicly that we don't accept the result
elder portal
Churchill, I think? I forget who said it
near glen
Election is on Tuesday, right?
I think the only way this election is going to end without death is to trump loosing even in the early projections
plush crypt
i reckon he still won't leave office
elder portal
Remember: results are going to come in long after election night
near glen
Yes egg, but trump will not accept that
shut vine
Are you suggesting the loss would send some to violence or the win will send some to violence?
elder portal
It may be a month or three before ballots are counted
near glen
But if early projections show trump down already, I don't think he has a case for mail vote fraud, which he is setting up right now
shut vine
So if mail in ballots that were for Trump have been discarded, he doesn't have a case?
elder portal
Like this one
near glen
For that case he would have to wait till all ballots are counted
shut vine
I don't think either side in this election will accept the loss, by the way.
It will be contented if Trump wins.
elder portal
I'd be surprised if it wasn't a graceful loss from Biden
He's pretty level-headed in public
shut vine
There has already been claims from the Democrats he's trying to rig the election.
near glen
Your country is such a mess
elder portal
Those in glass houses
near glen
Just the fact that you have to choose between two sides
shut vine
Correct, which is the reason people will contest the result unless it's a devastating loss.
American's have 4 choices in this election.
near glen
"choices"
elder portal
How's your subsidized solar coming along for those families who can't make the switch? You know, the ones starving to death over it? @near glen
;)
shut vine
Yeah I guess there are two, neither one is Republican or Democrat.
near glen
Who is starving to death in germany? Lol
elder portal
You haven't been keeping up on your solar subsidies over there?
And who's paying for the new panels?
near glen
Can you try being a bit clearer?
Are you referring to the first wave of subsidiaries running out after 20 years or whatever?
elder portal
Germany. Many new solar panels to try to go green. Fastest way is subsidizing solar panels, which costs money. Cost is put on those who aren't using solar
near glen
Oh you mean that
shut vine
Wait what, how?
elder portal
Some families cannot switch for various reasons, are starving to death because their electric bill accounts for more than their rent
Yeah, that
near glen
Basically, in germany everybody paying for engery is subsiziding renewables
shut vine
Ah yes, the path to hell.
elder portal
Glass houses
near glen
But nobody is starving to death over electricity bills, lol
On fact, if you are low income, gov will pay it
elder portal
I been keeping an eye on that because mass solar interests me
Good idea, bad execution
Maybe it's been fixed, but even earlier this year people on non-renewable energy couldn't afford to turn on lights
near glen
Let's compare energy prices, I pay 24 euro cent per kWh
For renewables only
What would you pay in the US?
elder portal
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
shut vine
11 US cents a KW
near glen
11 usd to euro
elder portal
Not sure that pertains to your subsidies anyway
near glen
Lemme see how much of my 24ct are EEG
6ct
So clearly, that's not the only reason our energy prices are higher
near glen
We have nuclear too, and we subsidize coal for whatever fucking reason
Wait, I forget a thing, there are also the EU energy certificates
If you produce co2, you gotta pay for certificates
shut vine
America possibly has more freedom in who you pick for electricity too, more competition, though I'm not certain on that
near glen
Nah, you can choose whatever and switch monthly
elder portal
Point was that germany has problems, too. Not exactly a perfect county
We have systemic issues
near glen
Nobody is perfect
shut vine
Comparing one aspect of a country to another is generally not ideal
near glen
In some country you have high energy prices, in others you have a raging pandemic without the attempt at control
shut vine
Belgium and the UK have more cases per capita than the US does, from memory more deaths per capita too.
near glen
Also egg, the 6ct aren't really spend on solar btw, it's mostly wind
elder portal
Eh, renewables. Majority of homes is solar
Because, yeah
Nobody wants a windmill in their yard
near glen
This is the possible max https://energy-charts.info/charts/installed_power/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE
shut vine
So nearly 50%
elder portal
Iirc a year or two ago germany had a bad case of hyper-inflation? Was that fixed?
I didn't keep up on that
shut vine
50% "green" that is
near glen
The energy prices in europe sometimes dip into negatives for seconds if that's what you mean
elder portal
I remembered it being newsworthy a while back
near glen
We can't really have inflation without the whole euro having inflation
near glen
And no, I don't remember anything like that, but I could be wrong
shut vine
Probably Greece, they had to sell a major port to China to survive
elder portal
Ahh
near glen
That was 2010 I think
elder portal
Rip them
shut vine
Piraeus Port I think
elder portal
I'm old, leave me alone
near glen
Basically, they had bad issues in the financial crisis of 2008
The big one where the US bank sector basically collapsed or whatever, am not getting into any of that shit, lol
And greece didn't recover
shut vine
It's one of the largest ports in Europe.
elder portal
Hm, whoops
shut vine
They must have sold part of it back then maybe
near glen
I think greece ppl still hate Germans
Because we forced them to do reforms
Basically, greece was a corrupt shithole where nobody was paying taxes
They burned german flags and pictures of merkel in public 😂
I find global finance crisis really fastinating
Why would you delete that message?
foggy fern
I didn't know there were places in the US where you could pick between companies for electrical service
We have one choice here, we had once choice when I lived in a large city nearby, and one choice when I lived in Florida
near glen
So it's like your dum situation with ISPs?
That's why you need a gov that regulates stuff
foggy fern
Some of them let you pay extra to get your power from cleaner sources but it's just greenwashing bullshit, it's not like you get put on a different grid or something
near glen
I just opened a comparison portal, I can choose between 137 different contracts
foggy fern
They're supposed to have enough available to match what the people paying for that are using at least but I wouldn't be surprised if they just get in the right ballpark and consider it good enough
near glen
I wouldn't call that greenwashing. At least here in germany, those companies guarantee that they buy the amount of clean energy their customers pay for
Sure it's all one grid, but you can still make sure its equal
foggy fern
I guess the grid there is owned by the government then?
near glen
And one ct of every kwh I use gets put into building up new renewables, that's what my provider does, plus the 6ct my gov gets to subsize stuff
No, grid is owned by a hand full of companies
But they have to share
Just like ppl have to share internet lines
Well, not share
They have to let other providers use their stuff, in exchange for money
foggy fern
I think in some places you can at least get a choice for commercial/industrial usage but afaik for residential your only choice is the company that owns the grid
mystic ermine
Over in the UK, we have a grid operator in the area and you basically just contract with some provider who supplies to the grid
There's no real "connection" to the company bar, if I pay for X amount, they need to buy X amount from generation companies
shut vine
shut vine
Seems like an official that hasn't been named?
Bobulinski is saying he was interviewed for hours by the FBI, which; grain of salt.
brisk cradle
You forget that Sinclair is quite literally state-influenced TV
shut vine
The evidence of your positive assertion about what I do and do not know is?
brisk cradle
Very good Last Week Tonight episode about it and the erosion of local news in general
shut vine
That's unrelated to my question though.
restive seal
shut vine
Interesting, so it's like the Steele dossier maybe
shut vine
I think the CECF association has been partially confirmed, so it's possible the alleged scandal is based on partial truths that look bad to make it seem more credible. Just like Joe meeting with a member of the Burisma board.
foggy fern
...which Joe Biden says never happened and wasn't scheduled so if the email was real (and it apparently had some pretty obvious issues) may have just been Hunter offering things he couldn't actually provide to look important
shut vine
There are pictures of them together.
Either way, at least needs as much attention as the Russia probe.
shut vine
It'd be strange if someone said that if Don Jr was working at an energy company in.... Canada, and that company was being investigated by a prosecutor, and Don Sr contacted the Prime Minister of Canada, and said that prosecutor had to be fired or Canada would not get 1 billion in congressionally appropriated and promised funding... that it wouldn't look suspicious as hell.
Hypothetical situation.
I'm not saying he's guilty of anything, just the situation has looked suspicious for years.
foggy fern
Only picture I'm aware of is Joe Biden with Devon Archer who was Hunter's former (American?) business partner
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Yeah, Devon Archer was on the board of Burisma
foggy fern
That's not the guy from the supposed meeting, that's a guy Hunter had an investment thing with
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That's not the one in the email no, but his claim is he's never met with a person on the board other than his son.
I think he's also claimed to not have met any of Hunters business partners, but that I'm less certain of.
foggy fern
Apparently Hunter and Devon went to the White House for some reason in 2014, that's what the picture was from
Not a great look but iirc they were college buddies or went to high school together or something
So he was someone Joe probably would have known as a friend of the family
Joe Biden's people asked for the photo to be removed right after it went up on the website it seems
Wasn't like they were trying to cover up afterward to prepare for this election or something
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Allegedly that was discovered when the emails leaked
Or rather, in the laptop situation
foggy fern
The prosecutor in Ukraine that Biden got fired was done at the request of several governments, including the EU iirc, and the prosecutor was actually taking bribes from the owner/majority shareholder/whatever of Burisma to not investigate him and the company
Several countries were going to stop supporting Ukraine's government over concerns they were insanely corrupt and not doing anything to clean up their act
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I think it's plausible he didn't know personally, but it looks horrible. If a majority of this is fake, it was a very clever thing to go after.
Also yeah it was claimed he was corrupt.
foggy fern
It's taking advantage of the real faults of Hunter Biden and his relationships to spin some crazy stories, as far as I can see
Hell, part of it involved a made up person created by an AI and a made up security company to try to do a Steele dossier like thing
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But it was probably a bad idea for Biden to threaten the money in hindsight, it's possible he didn't know Burisma was being investigated.
foggy fern
That's a really neat bit of tech, btw. You basically take an AI trained to recognize faces and reverse it so it spits out faces instead.
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Yeah, also the deep fake voice thing is a worry, as well as Google's new AI tech.
Combine all this technology together and you can literally fake video with audio.
foggy fern
Fake enough to fool on a twitter post maybe but so far not enough for someone looking closely, especially if they know what to look for
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Oh of course.
foggy fern
But only the people paying attention will notice the posts a few days later showing the proof it's fake
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What do you think about what Twitter did in this instance?
I know Facebook did some shifty shit too, but I feel like there is a measurable difference.
foggy fern
You mean blocking the laptop story? They don't want a repeat of 2016
I don't mean Trump winning, I mean people pointing to Twitter and Facebook and the fake things posted on there as the reason he won
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That's not what they say is the reason
foggy fern
iirc they're using the rule they created after The Fappening for it
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Their original reason was somewhat related, that it seemed like it was misinformation, they have changed to "we thought the information was sourced by hacking".
foggy fern
The only reason I saw them give was the hacking one
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The CEO testified before the SJC btw
foggy fern
Do they call it testifying when you appear voluntarily? iirc the main difference is when you're there by choice you can refuse to answer things
They called in Twitter, Facebook, and Google to whine to them about blocking conservative things even though the most shared/viewed things on Facebook are still all right-wing news
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Hmmm... you can refuse to answer I believe, but lying has a higher penalty than perjury.
To me the only saving grace is the CEO admitted that blocking it, banning people, preventing the article from being sent via messages privately, etc. was an error.
Zuckerberg also was pretty refreshingly open.
foggy fern
Guess he got a software update
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He was the most open of the three.
I think the thing that looked the worst for Twitter, more than the article, was their CEO believes Russia can greatly affect an election via it's platform, but their company couldn't if they wanted to.
foggy fern
They have the ability to do so but probably don't have the right kind of people to know what to do so it's one of those technically correct kind of answers
I'm sure they have psychologists to ensure Twitter is the most effective Skinner box possible and that's close to the kind of people you need but you also need political strategists and such to know what behaviors to encourage
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Yeah, it kinda suggests they think they can though with them attempting to censor things.
I am curious what made them think that censoring the articles was a mistake, maybe it's just publicity.
foggy fern
btw US daily cases are 27.6 per 100k (91,530 / 331,642,770 * 100,000), Belgium 181.35 per 100k (21,048 / 11,606,289 * 100,000), UK 33.92 per 100k (23,065 / 68,003,706 * 100,000)
US is catching up to UK, Belgium is still a shit show
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Whoa, shit got real in Belgium fast.
foggy fern
Yeah, I think Twitter considers it a mistake purely because it ended up making them look bad
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Pretty sure that's over double what Belgium was a week or so ago?
foggy fern
Last time we talked about it it was either 64 (your number) or 72 (my number), that was 15 days ago
foggy fern
I expected that to happen eventually because while the US is doing not great basically everywhere it's a large enough country that some places are doing okay-ish and some are overflowing their hospitals again
Like El Paso where at least one hospital is now covid only, other kinds of emergencies get turned away
And the other hospitals in the area are also overflowing with covid cases
That's what causes the deaths to spike, so long as we can keep the numbers lower than hospital capacity it's only like 4x more deadly than the flu but eventually the doctors can't keep up with equipment or with time to properly care for patients
"only"
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Oh yeah of course.
foggy fern
But yeah, what really makes the virus deadly is that it's more likely to require hospitalization and spreads much easier
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The spread is probably partially due to the number of asymptomatic people.
The actual half life of the virus outside the body is roughly the same as other influenza type viruses
Another key part is probably incubation time
foggy fern
Like, the flu R0 bounces between 0.9 and 1.8 or so depending on the strains that are active in a particular year but this is somewhere around 5.7 based on the latest studies
The reason the R0 is so high is because it's novel and because you can spread it before becoming symptomatic
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How does it being new affect that? Less immunity?
foggy fern
Yeah, novel means essentially zero immune response
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I thought it was just previously undiscovered viruses
foggy fern
I don't mean that's what the definition of novel is, I mean being novel means our immune system doesn't know what to do with it
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Ah gotcha
There are some recent studies to suggest that people who've had recent flu's are possibly less likely to get it, however it's not based on exact science but rather statistical observations.
foggy fern
It has very little genetic diversity which means this isn't something people have been getting for a while and we just noticed (obviously in this case) but that it just now made the jump to humans
Yeah that's one of those correlation vs causation things
Might be that having recently recovered from the flu your immune system is just more active so catches it sooner rather than some immunity from another coronavirus giving partial immunity
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Yeah, which is why I said it suggests, it's very hard to measure that exactly without infecting people.
Correct
It could also be a statistical anomaly, or it could be heavily biased.
foggy fern
Yeah, that's been happening a lot with drug "trials"
Where they give the drug to young people and don't give it to old people then publish the statistics in a way that suggests the drug helped but since it's a case study and not a proper paper it goes through less review
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Also, it can be very hard to determine the accuracy of such a study with a virus that has a high asymptomatic rate.
Part of it has to obviously be a survey (how recent was your last flu/cold/etc).
foggy fern
The asymptomatic rate estimates are complicated by a lot of the studies not following the people for some time so they only show they aren't symptomatic right then but not if they're asymptomatic or presymptomatic
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Proper paper i.e. passes P value?
foggy fern
So the estimates vary widely between 10% and 50%
iirc one even claimed 90%
A lot of these things are getting posted as preprints because everyone is rushing to figure this out, don't know how many have made it through peer review
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Yeah, that's part of the issue for sure, glad someone else realizes that 😛
foggy fern
I wish Discord spell checking worked more than 1% of the time
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It doesn't work well?