well then they are doing it wrong
#politics
faint radish
you think thats their only income?
its incredibly easy to have a family member be a "consultant" for your campaign
and to justify spending campaign money for various other expenses
dusky raft
massachusetts
nevermind the fuckers get $600/mo for expenses also
I wouldnt be shocked at the kickbacks for retirement in these states
yeah, full retirement plan
elder portal
sounds like we're forgetting who has all the cookies
dusky raft
?
elder portal
while this isn't about immigration, the idea stays the same: https://i.redd.it/sb3t71kcik741.png
dusky raft
politics 101, if we cant see them, its not an issue, not until our security barrier is broken down
elder portal
though that still opens up a whole other can of worms
some nice benefits being in some of the top politics and law positions of gov't
but they aren't multi-billionaires, either
mystic ermine
clap you stupid bastards
dusky raft
yeah, one guy makes a product and gets rich off of it, while some guy has power to take your money
BUT
not all billionaries are liquid billionaires either
they dont have said amount of cash, its their net worth
mystic ermine
that money is often in stuff like businesses
dusky raft
its not money if its not liquid...
elder portal
yeah, I know, a lot of it does go to other businesses. Stocks, etc
mystic ermine
which need money to ensure that they can keep throwing jobs out to people and do the R&D needed to release stuff to keep stuff going forward
dusky raft
you cant liquidate stocks without it crashing...
elder portal
well, a few people can for a short amount of time
depending on how much they have
yeah, it's more complicated than "this person has a a ton of cash"
dusky raft
I dont know how much bezos has in stocks, but if he was forced by the government to sell them all off, it would crash amazon
and the stock market would go down
elder portal
but I mean, if they didn't have money then they wouldn't be the richest people in the world
¯_(ツ)_/¯
dusky raft
the government would only see a fraction of what the stocks were originally worth
and not what they were worth
elder portal
never said gov't should force anyone to sell anything
mystic ermine
but it can be liquidated if needed
elder portal
just saying that's a lot of money and power for one person
yeah, if the owner of those assets needs
mystic ermine
"if needed" is basically saying that you agree with people being pushed to that
elder portal
never said anything about any external parties forcing anyone to liquidate anything
"if needed" didn't imply that
dusky raft
the problem is how to tax the person, you cant really tax them on net worth, that would break their bank if its high enough
and their income is lower than what people expect
elder portal
if the owner of those assets wants to, they can take everything that have. Would be stupid to do so on many levels, but the point was that it's a lot of money and power for a single person to have
there's issues with taxation in that if there's a system people will find a way to game it
dusky raft
yes
elder portal
last I checked, the art market is still booming
mystic ermine
There needs to be mechanisms to prevent people from using tax loopholes, I agree with that one
But, you have to be careful about taxing businesses to death
elder portal
not necessarily taxing businesses, no
that could end poorly
to be fair, taxing individuals can also end poorly for the same reasons
there's many banks all over the world that store USD
¯_(ツ)_/¯
and that's just one loophole
of many
actually that's the biggest reason these loopholes still exist. Closing them just means businesses or individuals move money to another friendlier country, and then we get nothing
something is better than nothing, but it's all shit
or yeah, moving a business to another country as well
and passing along the cost to the consumer
though then you get into "free market" territory, but that's also usually squashed with the current monopolies
it's all shit
mystic ermine
still dreaming for the day where we can get rid of currency
brisk cradle
As for the ppl in here saying the public wants the president to it in a new Supreme Court judge now... https://apple.news/Ang7Pm_PtTJKAZogDsdRUkw
faint radish
hey, a poll of americans before she died said that they were find with the current president picking one
idk what that says
restive seal
Can you link that poll?
dusky raft
man, I love how the NYT's paywall is all over trumps tax records
also, how the fuck did the NYT collect such records?
because I doubt I can call the IRS and demand tax information on public figures myself
but again, I really wouldnt trust the documents unless the IRS backs it
but really, if these people were to want to show the world trump's tax records, they should have not put it behind a paywall
faint radish
dusky raft
so yeah, if anyone wants to send me a link that isnt behind a paywall, Ill look at it
otherwise, what trump is saying is the only view for people who don't pay the nyt till someone dumps it
tough cedar
can sometimes view it in incognito
storm garnet
faint radish
excited to watch what almost assuredly will be a very entertaining 90 mins tonight
dusky raft
yeah, this is going to be a shitshow
and biden wanted breaks
fuck that
he wont get breaks while being president unless he said fuck it, this is someone else's job
if he does get elected
faint radish
if biden brings out the "make sure your record players are on" talk, itll be interesting. And if he does that, how is trump gonna respond? he gonna be like "Hey joe, should we reschedule this?" or is he gonna say something crazy like, "Hey Chris Wallace, why don't you ask biden if he is on drugs" 😆
dusky raft
I think trump is going to try a knockout blow to biden on the first
faint radish
but he could pull a Castro and look like he is punching an old guy, so he can't go too far if something happens
but this is why itll be fun to watch
near glen
poor biden, having to try to make sense of wtf trump is talking about for 90 minutes straight
dusky raft
I just hope that all this crazy nonsense stops, but something tells me that when it comes to a republican victory, riots will break out everywhere, whereas democract victory will enact revenge for daring not to elect them in 2016
near glen
wdym revenge?
dusky raft
packing the courts? restricting 2nd amendment rights?
faint radish
really disapointed theres gonna be 90 people in the audience
itd be better if there wasn't anyone to cheer when someone says a stupid zinger line
dusky raft
I want to see a debate where joe rogan handles the moderation
near glen
restricting 2nd amendment rights
how is more gun control revenge?
dusky raft
3 guys at the table, 4 hours
faint radish
speaking of that, did you see that spotify employees are trying to get editorial control over his podcast?
dusky raft
fuck gun control
near glen
its needed tho, lol
dusky raft
tell that to the state I left
near glen
no other 1st world country has so many gun violence problems
near glen
police has guns, criminals have knifes, seems fair to me
near glen
police has guns, criminals have fully automated riffles? not so much
dusky raft
the problem I see is that many websites combine deaths from murders, mass shootings, and suicide
inflating the death rate
im trying to find a site that actually seperates all the data
that isnt wikipedia...
im trying to find a site that actually seperates all the data
near glen
as long as its combined for all countries its not an issue, is it?
dusky raft
for all countries?
I want raw data
not combined and ranked based on population
and stripped of anything really useful
hm
alabama is reported to have a high gun crime rate, but there is no constitutional carry
ah, no permit required
hm, I wish there were better stats
lot of crime in the city
faint radish
yes
instead of trump saying "cause you'd be in jail" like he did to hillary, I'd love to see, "cause you should be in a home" tonight
😆 not good for the country, very good for entertainment
restive seal
not good for the country
Then why would you want it? ._.
wise pollen
https://tenor.com/view/jail-right-to-jail-right-away-parks-and-recreation-parks-and-rec-gif-16177531
brisk cradle
this reddit post is too good
Denmark: We can slash CO2 emissions by 70% and still afford a generous welfare state
America: We can slash welfare by 70% and still have a shitton of CO2 emissions
drifting arch
faint radish
yeeee lets get it on
drifting arch
yep i am watching. going to try not to discuss till after and ive heard both sides.
already talking over each other
faint radish
well did you think that wasn't gonna happen?
drifting arch
i see trumps point. i also see bidens.
faint radish
yeah, the SCOTUS thing, I just think it boils down to whoever is in power. We have elections, if people don't like what the republicans do, they can vote them out.
drifting arch
oh christ this is ridiculous so far
faint radish
I thought trump shut down that roe v wade bit well tho. We don't know what she thinks on that
and he got biden to agree there
faint radish
yeah, lol
don't think thats smart
lol
I guess im debating you not him, but im not surprised
what is that?
white wing
both these guys are idiots holy shit
white wing
trump needs to stfu and the host needs to stop jamming preconceptions in his questions.
drifting arch
ok, its not just trump. it's both of them. they need to let the other person talk and think about their fucking responses.
christ
faint radish
this is crazy
white wing
you the liar, no your the liar, no your the liar
faint radish
ok, moderator needs to asert himself rn
thorny wing
moderator doesnt have the power to mute the mics
faint radish
chris is losing control here
drifting arch
holy fuck man, they're just steamrolling each other
white wing
I keep forgetting what the original question was lmao
faint radish
this topic was supposed to be the supreme court
white wing
wait did trump even answer the hosts question?
faint radish
not really
drifting arch
no
faint radish
I thought Wallace was going to be good. he is pretty fair during interviews with both sides
dusky raft
I honestly think trump is doing this to cause chaos and to spite biden
white wing
Is there a time limit in this debate?
faint radish
the debate is 90 mins long
drifting arch
15 minute sections, 2 min initial response each side, rest free talk. 4 of these.
white wing
oh well that's shit
faint radish
6 of those*
white wing
well this is going to be shit with these stupid time limits.
thorny wing
tbh even trump fans have had that thought
faint radish
yeah
brisk cradle
Trump is just going to talk over Biden and just shout "radical left"
This debate is already gone to shit.
drifting arch
i just called my mother, who is a trump supporter, and she is just as confused as i am right now
faint radish
it took like 5 minutes for it to fall apart
brisk cradle
But it is comforting to know Biden is speaking cogently.
thorny wing
until the moderator has actual power, this will remain the result
drifting arch
agreed.
faint radish
Trumps goal might be to just make biden very mad
drifting arch
mics need to be muted.
drifting arch
i think you might be on to something.
white wing
I find it hard to believe that these guys have any goal in this debate other than just "winning" it.
drifting arch
and biden is falling for it
thorny wing
Xi is the president of China
faint radish
oh right
thorny wing
but that might go over american's heads because lolmurica
drifting arch
Xi is pronounced she
white wing
ish
brisk cradle
Trump just went back to claiming COVID-19 was caused by China
white wing
more like zhe
drifting arch
regardless, that's a very close approx pronunciation. not the point
brisk cradle
yeah, the president is lying about COVID
drifting arch
of course he is.
brisk cradle
Claiming that closing travel from and to China saved lifes? Unfortunately COVID already hitched a ride here.
faint radish
yeah, that's gonna be a theme
you don't think restricting travel from China didn't reduce the spread of covid here Tux?
thorny wing
no lol
faint radish
if there was more travel, it just wouldve been in more places
thorny wing
wasnt even a full restriction
brisk cradle
there's evidence that COVID came here as early as December 2019
thorny wing
its not like there was a biocontainment restriction or something
faint radish
any reduction in travel, even if its one person, statistically means there would be less chance of spread of the virus here right? what am I missing
thorny wing
the china restrictions are and have always been economical
white wing
I'm going to have to agree with machine maker
thorny wing
trump's trade war against china, not his poor handling of covid
fuck I know a guy who left, went and got tested there, then flew back
this debate r bad
brisk cradle
@faint radish problem is statistical significance
drifting arch
this debate is horrible
brisk cradle
if just one person was stopped due to travel restrictions, that's not statistically significant
drifting arch
uh oh
faint radish
wtf is this
drifting arch
personal attacks again
brisk cradle
more personal attacks
white wing
omg wff
thorny wing
do uh, the personal attacks appeal to anyone but the angriest, furthest right voter who is already voting for him anyway
brisk cradle
though I did find that attack a little funny, I expect that line to be used
faint radish
who is watching this who hasnt made up their mind anyways?
faint radish
like I can't imagine a person who hasn't decided this (if they are voting in the first place)
drifting arch
"plastic pelosi" are you FUCKING KIDDING ME?
brisk cradle
Biden: "we need to have a plan"
Trump: "Nancy Pelosi"
drifting arch
how rude can you be
brisk cradle
Trump shut down the economy kek
thorny wing
debate summed up with the joe biden shaking his head dot gif
white wing
my mind right now is that both these guys are idiots
thorny wing
trump moving his hands back and forth dot mov
brisk cradle
why is Trump claiming Biden wants to shut down the economy?
thorny wing
plays to his base
drifting arch
^
brisk cradle
"states that shut down are not doing well" - hello Florida, COVID-19 hotspot with a Republican governor
thorny wing
oh no, is he going to say he was for masks the whole time or something now
faint radish
the biggest mask hes ever seen, what does that even mean
like, what is that supposed to mean
faint radish
lol
brisk cradle
Trump is a cult leader
drifting arch
this moderator is not unbiased
brisk cradle
A leader of a death cult
thorny wing
no problems at his rallies 👀
brisk cradle
no problems at his rallies
like we would believe
Trump rallies: scant mask wearing, zero social distancing
"China plague"
Herman Cain died from COVID-19, which he probably contracted from a Trump rally in Tulsa in June.
thorny wing
is trump just focused on not losing his base
drifting arch
yes
thorny wing
or just incapable of not being... him
drifting arch
yes
thorny wing
he realizes he's not winning right
brisk cradle
"Biden will destroy this country" - lol
drifting arch
yeah im almost a full six pack in
brisk cradle
November 9th after the election, does Trump think Election Day is November 8th, 2016?
faint radish
and we got 2 more of these debates...
faint radish
vp debate
drifting arch
5 weeks 3 debates
brisk cradle
Democrat states with a tight shutdown? Just look at California, it's a mess.
dusky raft
if biden wants to continue with this
faint radish
no one cares about the vp debate
brisk cradle
We're setting records in COVID-19 cases and deaths
thorny wing
some years the vp debate is actually more interesting
idk if thatll be the case this year though
brisk cradle
SARAH PALIN
faint radish
yeah, attack dogs
thorny wing
idk I dont remember the last vp debate being very interesting so who knows
everytime pence talks I basically fall asleep though
very monotone speaker
brisk cradle
BUT WASN'T TIM KAINE SUPPOSED TO GET THE HISPANICS BEHIND HIM BECAUSE HE SPEAKS SPANISH?!?
faint radish
I think I only watch the debates cause trump makes them more interesting to watch, regardless if you agree with him or not or not
brisk cradle
I remember.
thorny wing
clearly must've been interesting, totally forgot the other vp candidate's name
faint radish
I think anyone who can easily remember the losing canditates veep from 4 years ago probably pays too much attention 🙂
including myself
dusky raft
@brisk cradle I wouldnt be shocked if china is hiding its true numbers, because its got a really low death rate compared to population size
brisk cradle
Well, also China has over a billion people 
drifting arch
can agree about small businesses being forced closed, mine almost died and we didn't qualify for sba loans. my parents had to pull out of their retirement funds. at this rate unless im able to help them a lot they will never retire
thorny wing
There's a lot of controversy over China's numbers on both sides
drifting arch
literally, due to covid and trump's response
brisk cradle
but yeah
drifting arch
but they still support T dog
brisk cradle
I do think China is probably hiding
thorny wing
they both kind of want to spin it to their own side
dusky raft
because I call it bullshit that total china cases is 80k
thorny wing
look at what he did, ignore this thing he also said
the tax returns thing is still really fucking hilarious
everyone else wouldve just given the fucking returns now
brisk cradle
Trump's tax returns will remain a political meme into 2090
faint radish
trump should be like, Ill release my returns, if biden takes a drug test
thorny wing
"OK"
brisk cradle
But by then half of the US will be uninhabitable
thorny wing
Ive been playing a bit of fallout lately, I'm ready
that is probably one of trump's best arguments, he just frames it really poorly
faint radish
that is true, biden did vote on tax policy for trump through his career
dusky raft
I took advantage of the tax code...
thorny wing
business man would take advantage of the loopholes and play the game
dusky raft
lol
thorny wing
biden wants to make it a moral argument
but at the same time, he was there
so if he could just frame that better
faint radish
yeah, he made that clear in 2016, he said he tries to pay as little taxes as possible
like any businessman
dusky raft
yeah, hes not denying it
brisk cradle
there you go, the GOP can say "BiDeN wIlL rAiSe TaXeS oN tHe MiDdLe ClAsS"
thorny wing
the gop always says the left will raise taxes
the fiscal republicans always disappear during a republican presidency though
faint radish
lets see if the national debt gets mentioned even once
thorny wing
theyll be back if biden wins
faint radish
chances are high, no
thorny wing
the national debt is an unlimited worthless number to 99% of the american public
brisk cradle
Republicans support Modern Monetary Theory too, but only when it's politically convenient and suits their policy goal of tax cuts and obscene military spending
dusky raft
I think next time, whoever does the next debate is going to have mic cutoffs
thorny wing
nope
trump would never agree
the rules are all agreed to beforehand
there havent been mic cutoffs in decades
drifting arch
thats an important point. both parties have to agree to the setup
thorny wing
this isnt a recent change
faint radish
yeah, pretty sure the last chairman of the joint chiefs said the national debt is the biggest national security threat to our country. It cant go up forever and if something cant go on forever, it must end.
brisk cradle
Trump brags about 3% growth in one year and calls it a boom
drifting arch
if one doesnt, it doesnt happen
thorny wing
its just never been so fucking annoying
mystic ermine
god, I was watching at 1.25x, now it dropped back to normal speed and they just sound slow
faint radish
3% is considered strong for the US Tux
brisk cradle
Cut military spending
thorny wing
listen here tux, education is the most important thing because our children
brisk cradle
We can find the money for Medicare for All too
faint radish
maybe not a boom, but its not insignificant
thorny wing
but we arent going to pay the teachers
we've got shit to blow up
"no you're a number 2"
jfc
drifting arch
i cant even comprehend the stupid back and forth insults right now, can we have some fucking substance please
brisk cradle
"we brought back manufacturing" - sure, replacing the human labor in Chinese factories with automation in US factories
brisk cradle
yep
brisk cradle
BURISMA! Oh boy
thorny wing
if they bring up qanon I have bingo
faint radish
he should. we need an adult in the room
mystic ermine
Yea, both of them are trying to run off
faint radish
you dont think hed get publicity for yelling at the canditates
especially if they are behaving like 6 year olds
thorny wing
not the kind he wants when he goes back to fox
mystic ermine
Reminds me of our playgroundgovernment
faint radish
he isn't a right winger, hes pretty liberal.
thorny wing
not that I expect any of these moderators to ever step up
he's not even remotely liberal
faint radish
just cause he works at fox, doens't mean hes right wing
thorny wing
he's just not hard right gop
he's liberal in comparison
you underestimate how far right things have come
in europe even biden would be center right
brisk cradle
Chris Wallace isn't very liberal, he's pretty liberal for Fox News, but put them up against MSNBC and he's hard-right.
faint radish
well pretty sure that MSNBC is far left
thorny wing
MSNBC is so hilariously far left though
drifting arch
my god
faint radish
yeah, took long enough
faint radish
he probably wasnt planning on yelling, but I imagine itd be hard to stop yourself. you'd go crazy just listening to these guys
thorny wing
Im pretty sure everyone in here is
mystic ermine
bidens laugh just...
drifting arch
im losing my mind, im 6 beers in and i have 6 more. might need all of em, we'll see
brisk cradle
Charlottesville was on my bingo sheet.
faint radish
https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/1311120537440063488?s=20 this is probably accurate
Twitter
opaque prairie
simple i am already out
thorny wing
I dont know if that super predators quote is true, but that's where he needs to hit him
thats the right response
biden, you were there writing and voting for the very legislation that contributed
if he maintains one cohesive thought that might be a good come back
brisk cradle
Ben Shapiro is pretty vapid intellectually so this adds nothing new
opaque prairie
trump has been doing a good job about hitting buzzwords, which i guess is all he needs to do
drifting arch
ddg! define vapid
loud meteorBOT
drifting arch
true
thorny wing
I dont think anyone is going to be swayed by this one
so yeah I guess trump is going to stroke his base and biden just needs to hold it together and not tell him what he thinks
brisk cradle
Nobody is getting swayed by this one, I agree
opaque prairie
agreed. people have made up their minds a while ago
brisk cradle
Though Biden did a great political coup by staying almost silent over the summer and watching their polling lead go up
drifting arch
trump is either going to respond very well or very badly to this.
no neutral response, im predicting
thorny wing
"we're going to work this out" is a pretty weak answer
then again its a political debate, they're all weak answers
faint radish
thats like the classic politician answer, "we're gonna study this"
mystic ermine
I tend to get more right news thrown at me than left for what I'd potentially imagine is obvious reasons
But, I've never really seen bidens stance/plan on anything
thorny wing
biden's stance is basically obama 2.0 on everything
brisk cradle
But now Biden must talk. I think Biden is up for it from the look of things.
faint radish
I liked that answer from trump
brisk cradle
But will that be enough? He can still snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
thorny wing
trump likes to him for being radical because it energizes his base, but I dont know any "radical" democrats who are happy with his plans
brisk cradle
The Squad doesn’t like Biden very much. Their support of him boils down to “he’s not a incompetent fascist, only a semi-competent neoliberal”
foggy fern
The super predator lingo was around back then and associated with that crime bill, don't know if he was one of the people saying it or not
dusky raft
trump isnt a facist...
mystic ermine
I mean, it seems like the major reason for the DNC for any canidate is "it's not trump"
thorny wing
violent crime numbers are all garbage
mystic ermine
He said predators, looks like hillary used the "super predator" phrase
thorny wing
it's been trending downward for decades now across administrations, policies, etc
it's just a matter of picking your numbers, limiting them to which metrics, and framing them however you want
foggy fern
SInce we stopped using leaded petrol 😄
faint radish
k, now biden is doing a bit of interrupting
brisk cradle
I think a lot of people want to see a return to “normal”, which Biden would give you.
foggy fern
Biden has been doing a bit of interrupting the whole time
brisk cradle
The Twitter news cycle is exhausting
dusky raft
im waiting for twitter to explode
thorny wing
moderator no power bad debate
faint radish
oh good question here
thorny wing
tbh I would expect most normal people, not on the twitter politisphere, to basically take nothing from this
foggy fern
Most people already made up their mind, yes
We have less "undecideds" at this point than any time in recent history
faint radish
ok, Biden is answering this very well.
thorny wing
he was clearly prepped on this question
dusky raft
wait, did biden say new york was red?
foggy fern
I'm not even sure if they have records of a time with less
faint radish
yeah
thorny wing
the right is being very explicit in framing it as defund the police and anarchy
the best thing he can do is reframe it
drifting arch
is calling a "nine-one-one" call a "nine-eleven" call a common thing? here in Cali it's not but I've just never heard that wording
opaque prairie
ive heard both, but nine - one - one is more common where i am
thorny wing
9-1-1 has been the most common everywhere Ive lived (in the US)
brisk cradle
I’m just going to say it, this debate would have been worth it if it were Trump vs Sanders, so I can watch Trump dissolve under Bernie’s game
opaque prairie
it would have.. rip
thorny wing
fan debate, trump v sanders
no points, just popcorn
tbh Im more interested in the memes of chris wallace trying to get them to stop talking over eachother
lmao
drifting arch
"if you wanna switch seats"
thorny wing
ye there were no problems when they sent in the feds 👀
brisk cradle
Trump will probably use red baiting, bash him with his wife’s mismanagement of a Vermont college, but otherwise have no real response to Medicare for All other than “it’s communism”
opaque prairie
white supremacy question is a great one
brisk cradle
Neoliberalism breeds fascism and socialism though.
faint radish
eeeesssh
thorny wing
you know, this debate is a pretty good metaphor for the state of the country though
deft bronze
Eyjydhdfzhbibobststc
https://media.tenor.com/images/cb3a4a07289132a268e3b18756226537/tenor.gif
https://media.tenor.com/images/096f315f09d62f227ba36f4a3548e6e2/tenor.gif
thorny wing
good lord autocorrect
deft bronze
Np
clear maple
there the Impeachment Hoax bingo spot
thorny wing
not going to do anything for him
people are pretty decided on that
you either do or you dont
foggy fern
I think I got a blackout already on my card 😛
thorny wing
still waiting on qanon
drifting arch
someone wanna delete that off topic gif message
thorny wing
ye he left them
faint radish
smart to push judges. its one of the things conservatives were able to think and hold their noses and vote for trump the first time
thorny wing
he totally didnt have nominations sitting in the senate
foggy fern
I think that super predator phrase is something from Hillary Clinton, actually
thorny wing
turtle man strikes again
opaque prairie
lol yeah... i dont think the senate confirmed any during their latter reign
clear maple
they did not leave them, they where forced to leave them
dusky raft
hes quoting a bit from democrats
mystic ermine
somebody have space force?
dusky raft
pelosi, clintons mainly
faint radish
more hunter biden talk
thorny wing
It seems like everyone forgot about space force about two seconds after that was actually real
opaque prairie
space force supposedly put a satellite in space the other day
(it was an airfroce sat)
faint radish
hey, im glad its real. china and russia have equivalents
foggy fern
Space force is basically just the folks that run the GPS system
dusky raft
space force was originally part of the air force
thorny wing
space force seems more like a reorg than the new amazing thing they claimed it would be
drifting arch
trump can only attack biden's son. i just. god, if i was the one who lost my son and the opponent just attacked my son i would lose my mind.
foggy fern
They split all the satellite groups off the Air Force and Army
dusky raft
uh
thorny wing
I mean, I bet you $10 I could find some quotes from big orange
faint radish
oh no
drifting arch
oh sorry, disregard, he's talking about hunter not beau
foggy fern
Trump's kids were a part of his campaign and administration
thorny wing
oh boy
dusky raft
when?
faint radish
yeah, I don't think trump would talk bad about the son he lost
thorny wing
trumps kids are literally front and center in the campaign
opaque prairie
Trump's kids were a part of his campaign and administration
Illegally too
valid steeple
are we talking about how great trump is and how he's gonna roll this election =
faint radish
yes
thorny wing
two of them gave speeches to ABC and the other newscorps before this debate
valid steeple
i can join in
faint radish
🙂
thorny wing
how are they not part of it
viscid saffron
I was mistaken in thinking I could find a civilized discussion here...
brisk cradle
Jared Kushner, the incompetent Shadow Prime Minister of the United States
thorny wing
oh boy back to this
dusky raft
and they arent allowed to do that?
faint radish
well leaf just showed up, civilized just left
shut vine
Well Biden involved himself as VP with his son's situation in Ukraine.
I think their children are involved on both sides due to the nepotism.
foggy fern
btw the stuff Trump is spewing came from a Senate report where the only sources are people the FBI and intelligence community warned Congress were Russian assets looking to sell someone disinformation...
faint radish
if you are in politics, and you aren't finding a way to get your family more money because of it, you are missing out
not saying its right, but it sure is everywhere on both sides
thorny wing
the dodge there not to anger his base
drifting arch
"what do you believe about the SCIENCE of climate change"
trump: talks about beliefs.
opaque prairie
trump is doing a great job of having the question said to him 3 times
foggy fern
I don't think Biden actually did anything in Ukraine to help his son, he was trying to get a prosecutor that would actually go after Burisma instead of one that accepted bribes
thorny wing
oh no is he going to talk about european forests again
foggy fern
But I think he shouldn't have been the person doing it considering his son
thorny wing
are we going to get another european country on the news to refute that, again
valid steeple
are there forests in europe
thorny wing
why doesnt he just say that
wtf
thats a perfectly valid answer
"I dont believe because it drives energy prices up"
foggy fern
I think I'm a couple minutes behind, dang it C-SPAN
thorny wing
plenty of americans would be thrilled with that answer, whether its "good" or not
opaque prairie
well, climate change is mentioned in this round of debates is an improvement vs the 2016 ones
thorny wing
come on qanon, we've got what ten minutes left
rolls dice across the table
daddy needs a bingo
shut vine
Chris Wallace is pretty fair tbh, so it's to be expected
foggy fern
Did he just "old man shakes fist at cloud" on ECUs in cars?
thorny wing
apparently
and apparently biden is gonna major infrastructure
which is never gonna happen
major infra isnt sexy
foggy fern
Sounds like FDR
thorny wing
wont get through congress
thorny wing
idk that "without the US, the paris accord is falling apart" is a fair statement
mystic ermine
c-span is actually more up to front here, just switched over to it as it has better quality too than the rehost on trumps channel
shut vine
I mean, economically spending lots on infrastructure right now would be good
foggy fern
I'm on the C-SPAN stream
thorny wing
I dont even disagree, I'd be all for major infra spending
faint radish
watching on the fox stream, only 720p smh
foggy fern
I know the stream is behind my local cable
faint radish
biden is doing some interrupting here
viscid saffron
tbh I don't understand what infra they're proposing that wouldn't obviously fall under the responsibility of the states.
or maybe I just think it's a state issue in general
shut vine
I agree, when I've visited it was kinda shocking tbh
thorny wing
most state projects are federally funded
so the feds are always there
but generally intrastate infra is the responsibility of the states yes
that fed money comes with terms though, and thats how they get them
viscid saffron
Congrats.
faint radish
not just nukes, nukes in hurricanes specifically
thorny wing
damn I shouldve got a different bingo card
dusky raft
fucking drop a nuke in a hurricane
foggy fern
If we're talking about hurricanes I want to see a mention of a sharpie
dusky raft
lol
thorny wing
The full quote is reportedly,
"I got it. I got it. Why don't we nuke them?" according to one source who was there. "They start forming off the coast of Africa, as they're moving across the Atlantic, we drop a bomb inside the eye of the hurricane and it disrupts it. Why can't we do that?"
restive seal
That sharpie is an american hero, amaranth
foggy fern
That was something we actually did a study on back in the day
thorny wing
but its not as good as if he said it at the podium
dusky raft
trump didnt say it or said it to spot a leak in his administration
faint radish
oh I totally forgot about the sharpie thing lol
foggy fern
Back when nuclear power and nuclear weapons were going to solve everything
drifting arch
faint radish
wow, Biden said he doesn't support the green new deal
thorny wing
was that news?
faint radish
wont matter cause far left is gonna vote for him anyways
idk, I hadn't heard him say that before
thorny wing
far left isnt thrilled with him, they just know trump is worse for what they want
foggy fern
Biden just did a gaff there
thorny wing
he did
drifting arch
i thought the fact that biden doesn't support "AOC's" green new deal was old news
thorny wing
he's had a few gaffs but nothing huge
opaque prairie
far left knows that this doesnt matter. theyre all upset but they will vote for him cause its not trump
faint radish
maybe I missed it simple, I just hadn't heard that before
thorny wing
I was worried when it started, he stumbled out of the gate on his opening statements
drifting arch
i mean specifically AOC's plan
thorny wing
trump did pretty much what anyone wouldve expected afaik
faint radish
well I think the debate got better as time went on, but still , not great
restive seal
wow, Biden said he doesn't support the green new deal
This isn't news, lol
thorny wing
we're just back to, I dont think there's much shifting of the electorate lol
foggy fern
https://iwillvote.com/ is run by the DNC, btw
faint radish
big surprise
drifting arch
"green new deal" is specifically AOC's plan, however the wording he used there was bad. could probably hurt him very badly.
dusky raft
ew
drifting arch
re: voting i got my ballot today. i refuse to vote by mail, i'll be going in person.
thorny wing
yeah that gaff could've hurt him with moderaates
shut vine
Supporting it would hurt him pretty badly too
thorny wing
but I think he recovered enough to clarify
shut vine
But yea wording wasn't great
thorny wing
we'll see
foggy fern
Wording was just wrong, he said the wrong thing
thorny wing
oh no
why would you end with crooked hillary
does he know he's not running against hillary
faint radish
but the emails...
foggy fern
He is trying to run the 2016 election again
restive seal
buttery males
drifting arch
foggy fern
He has been
drifting arch
me @ this entire "debate"
faint radish
this 90 mins did go by really quickly
thorny wing
it did
shut vine
I mean, people associate politicians and their ideas mostly due to red or blue.
thorny wing
he's totally going to fight the results if he loses
opaque prairie
what happened in NJ, i am curious
drifting arch
oh god he's ending on the efficacy of the ballot counting
foggy fern
Other than the one in the trash I think Trump is talking about ballot request forms?
drifting arch
of course.
clear maple
more then one ballot does not mean that it going to be counted more the once
opaque prairie
yeah... im really trying not to think about it Z
foggy fern
Most states aren't sending out ballots out of nowhere, they're sending ballot request forms
shut vine
Probably the group of Trump ballots that were found on the side of the road?
thorny wing
hasnt the military been voting by mail for like... 80 years now
foggy fern
My county has always sent ballot request forms but most of the country you have to mail them to start with
opaque prairie
they have yes Z
faint radish
I think the bigger issue is sending ballots out to everyone instead of people having to request them
foggy fern
Who is doing that?
thorny wing
they're sending out request forms, not ballots themselves
foggy fern
The states that always do and California, who was going to be switching to that system anyway
shut vine
That's via an absentee system I think. Where they specifically write in and request it.
thorny wing
that'd be no bueno
faint radish
dusky raft
the military I think handles the mail till it reaches the US, and the military has a strong non partisanship thing going on
shut vine
Yeah that's the issue Trump has with it MM.
drifting arch
California is sending ballots. I have my ballot right now in my drawer. I don't plan to use it. I'll be going in person.
I can send a picture as proof.
(If necessary)
foggy fern
Guess I missed out on New Jersey one
faint radish
at least NJ is sending ballots out to everyone
shut vine
It's recommended even if you mail it in that you vote in person anyway.
faint radish
that is scary
shut vine
To validate your vote.
faint radish
sending out forms to request ballots to everyone is fine
foggy fern
California is in the process of moving to only mail in ballots
thorny wing
tbh though, if mailing everyone ballots did actually get more people to vote that is probably a net positive
foggy fern
Just like Washington, Oregon, Utah, and Colorado
faint radish
more voting doesn't always mean a net positive
thorny wing
🙄
foggy fern
Uh
drifting arch
faint radish
more informed voting is a net positive
drifting arch
i didnt request that.
thorny wing
who decides who's informed and who isnt
foggy fern
Yes, California is doing ballots
thorny wing
that's the fundamental problem with that argument
foggy fern
Because they're moving to only mail in ballots
shut vine
I mean, as long as the vote gets counted, and they're informed yes.
thorny wing
plenty of uninformed people make decisions on thousands of things every day
you're surrounded by them
foggy fern
This election you can do both iirc but in the future it'll be mail only
faint radish
you decide yourself if you are informed
drifting arch
im just providing my proof
faint radish
and if you are, you request a ballot
and if you aren't or dont care, you dont request a ballot
foggy fern
4 other states already work like that
thorny wing
why doesnt that argument apply to just not sending it in?
faint radish
if you can't take that small step to request a ballot, what does that say?
dusky raft
the IRS still hasnt processed my tax returns, I doubt mail in voting is going to happen well on scale
restive seal
Must gatekeep, or the democrats win.
foggy fern
Australia requires everyone to vote
faint radish
that is a horrible idea
shut vine
I agree.
faint radish
also, would violate first amendment here
foggy fern
But yeah, turnout pretty much only helps Democrats, that's why Republicans are the ones doing all the voter suppression 😛
opaque prairie
poll watchers... man where does that sound familiar from
drifting arch
what is this about watching? why should people be allowed to "watch" how people vote?
thorny wing
are we overtime and just arguing now
faint radish
I thought this was 90 mins yeah
drifting arch
honest question, please educate.
foggy fern
They didn't start on time
opaque prairie
they shouldnt, its an intimidatation tactic
thorny wing
you do not get to watch individuals vote or who they vote for
opaque prairie
its meant to scare people from voting
foggy fern
People who are trained as poll watchers and register to do so can go do it
foggy fern
But you can't just dump another Brooks Brothers riot on a polling place
thorny wing
over many years because politics
drifting arch
ok sure, you should be able to watch that ballots are not thrown away and are all submitted to the voting machine (which nobody in the precint has access to open)
i can agree to that specific point
foggy fern
Yeah, there are people doing that from both parties at a lot, I want to say most, polling places in a normal year
foggy fern
There are also independent groups that do it
faint radish
"its been an interesting hour and a half"
uh huh
faint radish
yeah, I need something next time. I was just sitting here on my computer
at least there was no zinger lines purely designed to get a crowd reaction. I was glad to see that go
thorny wing
the vp debate could be interesting if kamala goes full prosecutor mode
but that could also be seen as way too aggressive if she overdoes it
faint radish
the scattered applause seems awkward
foggy fern
VP debate is always nothing but mud slinging
shut vine
That would bite her in the ass
foggy fern
Trump kind of broke things by doing it all himself 😛
thorny wing
I would say it depends on the context
faint radish
lol these guys in the crowd
thorny wing
but yes it could definitely blow right up
foggy fern
Normally the top of the ticket is above the fray and focus on explaining and defending their points
thorny wing
ABC says "both men lost"
shut vine
I think she was a very poor pick for VP mostly due to current news and her history
foggy fern
The VP candidates mud wrestle
shut vine
Yeah, basically
thorny wing
ye we were talking about that earlier amar
restive seal
Not sure mother will be okay with that amaranth
shut vine
If one of them could have maintained composure and just debated in their time they would easily have won.
foggy fern
It's ok, he won't be alone in the room with her
restive seal
Biden tried, James, lol
restive seal
Not super effectively, but at least he put some effort in.
thorny wing
and if you did just sit there and take it, in the right context, would that make you look weak?
shut vine
Eh.. they both tried, but they both utterly failed.
thorny wing
or would it be seen as respectful and calculated
foggy fern
Biden couldn't just let Trump walk all over him, once he started Biden had to do it too
thorny wing
its very risky
shut vine
That's actually the perfect time to not do it.
foggy fern
Clinton couldn't get away with it because when a woman does that everyone just calls her an emotional bitch but guys are allowed to be tough
restive seal
At what point did Trump try maintaining composure? He couldn't even finish a complete thought in his time, and I don't think we had a single uninterrupted 2 minutes when Biden talked.
foggy fern
Clinton bounced between giving as good as she got and trying to be the better person and got attacked harshly for both
thorny wing
I look forward to the memes and twitterverse explosion
shut vine
It shows a clear definitive distinction between them, then Biden can say something like "He has no respect for the process of things, he will just keep interrupting me no matter what you say". Then either he stops and looks weak, or he keeps going and looks wrong for doing so.
restive seal
thorny wing
look at mbax already on the meme train
"level of exhaustion"
yeah this debate did nothing to help that on any side
valid steeple
who won the debate boys
thorny wing
they both pretty much lost
faint radish
china
faint radish
or russia, america's enemies won
shut vine
I don't think anyone changed their mind due to the debates
restive seal
Which movie was it, "Whoever wins, we lose" 😛
shut vine
So it's a tie
shut vine
Well, if that theory is right anyway
thorny wing
tbh it probably just confirmed for a lot of people that the debates were all gonna be a waste of time
foggy fern
Why are all these memes for ants?
foggy fern
Oh hey MSNBC finally updated their only live stream tech to not use Flash
Only like a year after Flash was completely killed and a couple years after browsers that aren't IE blocked using it
thorny wing
I was just picking through the youtube streams
dont need any random crappy custom web players
foggy fern
They're using the NBC tech finally
thorny wing
well it's been fun, let's all do it again. Next week on "wow look at this shit show"
stay safe peoples 🌮
dusky raft
fucking circus, which makes me wonder if it was a bigger play for trump
foggy fern
Why are "Proud Boys" trending on twitter again? 😦
mystic ermine
they where mentioned in the debate
foggy fern
Trump definitely needed to do well in this debate
Not lose, not come out even, he needed to knock it out the park
He is so far behind if he keeps the status quo he is screwed
dusky raft
Well, the problem the left is having is again underestimating him, now they are treating him like a threat
but they think he is simple
but I honestly think its a show
foggy fern
dusky raft
What I saw was an attempt for trump to get under biden's skin
and it worked
to some degree
foggy fern
I guess I missed that proud boys bit in all the shouting over each other they were doing during that segment
opaque prairie
pretty much moderator asked trump to condemn white supremacy
and he avoided it every way possible
foggy fern
And told the proud boys to stand by?
opaque prairie
no but they took it as that
foggy fern
What does that even mean?
opaque prairie
uhhh widespread right wing violence inbound
foggy fern
Twitter
restive seal
but I honestly think its a show
For his entire life, around people in public and in private?
shut vine
I mean that county is a major portion of Portland but not all of it.
He likely means Washington County, but poor wording on his part.
foggy fern
"Proud Boys, stand back and stand by! But I'll tell you what...somebody's got to do something about Antifa and the left."
Yeah, I don't understand what he was trying to say there
shut vine
The proud boys part?
foggy fern
Sure
Also Biden was the first one to say the name, seemed Trump was looking for a specific group to talk about
mystic ermine
he was asking who they wanted him to say he condemned, which from what I can see, few of the things brought up in the example before that he has already done so
foggy fern
He has been very weak on any condemnation he does, he always does it as a part of some word salad, tries to do a both sides thing, or both
Those groups don't think he has really condemned them
shut vine
I mean calling white supremacists evil and thugs seems pretty strong as far as condemnation.
mystic ermine
I mean, it kinda woulda been nice for trump to utter the whole "Yes, I condem X, Y, Z", but, at the same point, that just woulda sounded like just regurgitation to make people happy; I think he gaffed with "stand by" and doesn't mean it in a "get ready for war" sense, but, god knows
shut vine
He has done that quite a few times, so yeah that's probably partly why.
I think both of them got emotional which is probably another factor.
brisk cradle
I think all I can really say is that November 4th, 2020 will be chaos
Never mind November 3rd
opaque prairie
fully expecting to hear of violence at polls during voting
restive seal
After telling the white supremacists to stand by, yeah they'll probably go a violent route on the 3rd.
brisk cradle
It's going to be bad. I am 1000% sure there will be violence at the polls and voter supression like we've never seen. There will be more violence and smoke-closeted rooms after the election because we won't know who won since a lot of people will be voting by mail.
torpid bear
The election’s going to have problems, and each side is going to try to blame it on the other.
brisk cradle
The worst-case scenario, of course, is a "red mirage" in which Trump will be leading on election night but as mail-in ballots are counted through November, states will tip towards Biden, and Trump will call it electoral fraud.
opaque prairie
i hate to say it.. but i legit think that this will come down to what the military interprets as the results of the election
drifting arch
why?
faint radish
lol no that isn't gonna happen
opaque prairie
who will remove trump if he refuses to leave? the SS?
brisk cradle
but i legit think that this will come down to what the military interprets as the results of the election
I don't think we're at the point where the military decides who gets to occupy the White House. If they did have that option, they would probably back a winner decided by the democratic process, such as it is.
faint radish
if trump doesn't win. come jan 20 at noon, hes just a guy in the whitehouse trespassing
this whole "what if he doesn't leave" is stupid
torpid bear
What do you guys think of the idea of direct elections where each person has one vote and whoever gets more wins? It seems like the idea has been going around and it kind of makes sense.
opaque prairie
makes total sense as long as its not FPTP
well it makes more sense than the current method still but, FPTP is bad
drifting arch
I think popular vote needs to be foremost. I don't like the idea of the electing those who then elect.
brisk cradle
If Trump refuses to leave the White House and Biden wins (or let's say the election is not decided), then after January 20th at noon, he's a trespasser at the White House. If Biden wins, he's the lawfully-elected president, if the interregum passes without a resolution to the election, then Nancy Pelosi will become acting president if Democrats keep control of the House (which is likely).
opaque prairie
yep good point tux. i kinda get ahead of myself sometimes so, sorry about that
torpid bear
But if votes aren’t counted for president then they aren’t counted for the house either. It’s on the same ballot.
brisk cradle
The prospect of Acting President Nancy Pelosi should scare some Republicans.
drifting arch
I think popular vote needs to be foremost. I don't like the idea of the electing those who then elect.
Statistically it causes loss of precision in the name of personal idealism. Nobody, regardless of what they say, is perfectly unbiased.
brisk cradle
We would have, if only for a short time, the first female president, a feat that was denied to Hillary Clinton.
drifting arch
Yeah. Horrible debate.
faint radish
yeah, we had fun commentating on that one live
drifting arch
No substance.
elder portal
Some
faint radish
like 10 mins in, we were all like this is a shitshow
elder portal
Not much
brisk cradle
I summarized the debate to a conservative colleague like so:
This debate will not sway people towards any one candidate, if anything cynicism is the real winner.
elder portal
Heh
drifting arch
So little substance that from an engineer viewpoint (
) there is essentially no substance.
torpid bear
It was just 3 old dudes yelling at each other for an hour and a half. I’m surprised none of them had a heart attack or passed out.
elder portal
Still watching
brisk cradle
The only hope Trump has is to (1) win a convincing legitimate victory or (2) engineer a "victory"
The window for (1) has already closed, so the GOP is doing (2)
torpid bear
Well those are always the only ways to win.
brisk cradle
No, if he wins, it will be through (2)
valid steeple
i think u underestimate just how dumb the democrats are and have been
brisk cradle
(1) is already precluded as a choice, given Biden's strong polling position, which the debate yesterday won't sway.
brisk cradle
Actually, the data suggests people are overcorrecting from '16.
I mean, if I'm a Democrat, I would run as if we were 20 points behind my opponent in every state, and it'd hopefully be the same if I were a Republican.
dusky raft
yes
that was clintons failure in 2016
skipped the red states
or well
the middle of the country
torpid bear
But if you run aggressively everywhere then you spend all of your money, and money is everything.
brisk cradle
Clinton's failure was not a lack of targetting red states, that would've been a waste of money.
She failed by overconfidently predicting that the Rust Belt would vote for her no matter what, and she ignored the very real warning signs that that was unlikely to happen.
But I will admit, stuff like pouring money into Utah based on shaky polls in a red state is 
dusky raft
yeah, the midwest was her bet to be in her favor
dusky raft
but again, those were hit hard in the last few decades
and arent the power houses that they used to be
brisk cradle
Yes, Clinton won the popular vote. The problem is that she won those votes in reliably blue states like California and New York.
restive seal
Popular vote is meaningless, farmer votes count more.
elder portal
You listened to planet money as well, eh @restive seal ?
restive seal
Which should be fixed but good luck getting states whose votes count for more to agree to it.
And no, egg. This info is everywhere :)
dusky raft
I dont agree on popular vote, its a horrible idea in the first place. Just because it sounds good doesnt mean it is
torpid bear
But the country is made up of people. Just because they’re grouped into states doesn’t mean the states always represent them.
elder portal
The electoral college is far less fair
brisk cradle
Which should be fixed
Republicans don't want to fix it as the Electoral College favors Republican votes over Democratic votes. Remember, 2 out of 2 Republican presidents this century won their first election in the Electoral College only.
restive seal
Yep yep tux.
dusky raft
so poor peasants vs rich liberals?
restive seal
I don't have a response to that which meets community standards. Have a good night y'all.
valid steeple
sounds like someone got owned
elder portal
Popular vote still isn't "fair" because of the voting system we have, but the electoral college was designed from the beginning to not be fair- our founding fathers believed that the common person should not be able to vote
brisk cradle
@dusky raft I invite you to read some socialist reading materials. The idea that the GOP is a savior of the working class is based on a fiction, and Democrats are little better with the establishment wing still clinging to 1990s neoliberalism with bits of social democracy thrown in to try and not repulse younger voters as much.
dusky raft
and socialism is the answer?
valid steeple
socialism is actually cancer
as we've previously discussed just how stupid stealing property is to redistribute it
opaque prairie
reading an ideology to view things from that point of view doesnt mean you agree with every single tenant of it
dusky raft
lets be poor together then
opaque prairie
its good practice to understand the world from all possible lenses, and even those you disagree with make valid points more often than not
brisk cradle
In fact, a lot of right-wing agitators attack the Democratic Party using left-wing thought, although in a very disingenious way. (Dinesh D'Souza is pretty well known for doing this.)
dusky raft
taking property from one person to another is stealing
elder portal
As they say in debate, those who shout the loudest and longest win
brisk cradle
Howard Zinn is appealing on the right as much as it is appealing on the left.
elder portal
This goes for today's debate and also "mbax getting owned"
Don't think anyone wins there
dusky raft
For me, I dont support an ideology that empowers the government to take what they want in the name of the greater good
elder portal
And boy Biden sure does debate really well for someone who is supposed to be terrible at this
Methinks someone set the bar low
brisk cradle
For me? I don't trust private business to do the morally right thing. I also have a deep distrust of the state.
elder portal
Great for Biden
opaque prairie
he honestly handled the debate better than i would have in his spot
dusky raft
I dont trust two things when it comes to private businesses:
- cuddle up in bed with government
- become too big, refer to ^ as to why
brisk cradle
So yes, I'm not afraid to say I am a socialist. But I am more importantly a libertarian.
elder portal
I trust business to do business things. If it's cheaper or better for them in some way, they'll do it. We fix that through restrictions and guidance
dusky raft
and doing socialism is ^ but making companies government owned
brisk cradle
I am first a libertarian, then a socialist.
valid steeple
half the time im in this channel it's to shitpost
the other half it's to tell dumbass socialists that it's actually cancer
brisk cradle
Capitalism is actually cancer 
dusky raft
crony capitalism
elder portal
Private business handling government contracts is interesting, but it seems safe