GOP literally has no platform, their official position is do whatever Trump thinks is good
#politics
plush crypt
thats how cults work yes
loud wharf
elder portal
7/10? I have to wonder what questions they asked to draw those conclusions
foggy fern
drifting arch
biden email: https://owo.whats-th.is/AAfpckf.png
trump email: https://owo.whats-th.is/5Tqmw5k.png
the differences are stark, and very scary
tough cedar
bro he just took ted cruz's nickname and gave it to obama!
brisk cradle
What's happening in Portland is scary https://www.huffpost.com/entry/portland-police-far-right-proud-boys_n_5f4417f6c5b6c00d03b29826
If a full-blown neo-Nazi rebellion happens, it's going to be there, I fear
meager ice
weary obsidian
@pure jetty except the shock here is they choose to stop policing only for those who are 'supporting them' break the law, but if anyone on the left even looks at them funny you bet theyll be back to 'protect and serving with my knee'
restive seal
RNC is... interesting
There's a lot of projection going on, like Pam Bondi talking about corruption in office.
Up next, Tiffany!
torpid bear
One of the people in trump’s “women” video said she had lost count of how many children she had 😆
restive seal
This is some remarkable padding for time
torpid bear
He keeps advertising that he’s removing regulations. I don’t think he knows what regulations are for...
restive seal
No, he knows.
Eric time!
Saw the leaked speech transcript. This is a really weird speech.
torpid bear
I’m a little behind because I paused it a couple times, so I haven’t seen Eric yet.
Still watching Pence’s montage.
restive seal
When Trump comes out, skip over it. It's a pre-recorded ceremony that is incredibly boring and truly nothing of interest happens.
torpid bear
Eric just said “And to every proud American who bleeds red, white, and blue”
restive seal
Which one of those is Ted Cruz?
opal moat
A new study published by the German Robert Koch Institut regarding covid is a bit worrying. They tested a complete city that was a hotspot a few months ago and found that only 60% of those that tested positive a few months back now have antibodies
brazen thistle
near glen
Went did we cross the line when the onion headlines turned real?
pure jetty
2016
faint radish
well wait, is that a news headline (like some "journalist" is claiming that) or did trump say that and so they are reporting on it. Usually when the text has Someone's Name: something, it means that person said that.
elder portal
Welp, this is all terrifying
drifting arch
I honest to god feel hopeless.
I'm terrified that trump is going to be reelected. God knows what another 4 years of this means.
COVID could easily continue to last all the way until herd immunity, which is years away.
Because he won't fucking do anything, among other things.
charred adder
the division between left / right is more of a concern that who gts elected IMO. If trumpg ets elected the left wnt be happy and vice versa
I honestly dont like trump. But none o fthe major candidates seem good. I dont like the dem either
elder portal
the choice, currently, is between "meh, safe I guess" and authoritarianism
opal moat
elder portal
people like to make things about "the left" vs "the right" because it feels good and is easier to rationalize "us vs them" mentality
in reality very few are far-left or far-right in the way that people picture
near glen
What I don't get is why that mentality is so much stronger in the US compared to elsewhere
elder portal
I'm not sure it is
the reactions/emotions are stronger perhaps
but I mean, look at the UK for the same mentality
the biggest problem we have right now is that a lot of our leadership is pretty far right. It's good to have an overall moderate leadership consisting of differing opinions, but that's not what we have
a leadership of far-left or far-right is problematic
too far left and we risk changing too much, too quickly, without much thought for repercussions (mostly related to funding) and too far right and.. Well, you're seeing what happens.
I never thought I'd miss the days when laws were submitted by one party and being blocked by another forever
though really fuck the whole party mentality anyway. So very few fit those stereotypes but so many get put into those two giant buckets.
and then you have people trying to fit themselves into those buckets because it's a social belonging thing, so they blindly follow whoever they're supposed to agree with
turns moderates into radicals
it's really a terrible system that was inevitable
something something social creatures
I got sucked into the whole "I really don't want this person to win, but this person also sucks" mentality during the 2016 elections and wound up letting my vote get split
and I'm definitely not the only person that happened to
and now we're stuck in this timeline
the choice, currently, is between "meh, safe I guess" and authoritarianism
make the right choice
weary lake
Preferably you have a system with more than two buckets as you call it, so you can pick a party whose opinions overlap for a large majority with your own, instead of neither party overlapping. It's really a shame the US doesn't have that.
near glen
Oh yeah, forgot that UK has a mini trumpet too
elder portal
Ideally our voting system would support more than two parties, but here we are
near glen
We having local elections in two weeks, I don't even know how many parties I can vote for ^^
opal moat
Ideally our voting system would support more than two parties, but here we are
tbh I'm not sure a voting system with more than 2 parties and stuff like preferntial voting would work for the usa
weary lake
We currently have 14 active national parties, although no voting yet 🙂
near glen
If you got more than two parties, you need to accept coalitions
weary lake
If you want you could make your own party.
near glen
I don't see that happening in the US
Apperently there are 13 parties I can vote for
Currently 6 parties with more than 3% are part of my cities parliment or whatever
weary lake
Oh, actually there are 14 parties currently in the parliament. We have 13 additional ones not in parliament currently.
near glen
That's a functional democracy
weary lake
The more parties the better imo
near glen
Yeah
We have a good chance that our next national goverment will be a coalition of three parties
pure jetty
NaPoVoInterCo will prob help with 3rd parties in the US
at least make it logistically possible
weary lake
googles
We currently have a coalation of four parties
With a very slight majority of 76/150 🙂
Apparently their motto is "Trust in the future", well that kinda didn't work out as planned
elder portal
@near glen there won't be more than two parties because the voting system we use will trend towards two. Wanting to vote for party A, hating party B, and voting for party C means you've split your vote and have effectively voted for party B
elder portal
@opal moat why would that be? I mean, it would be nice to give a ranking system a shot, and at the very least it ends up the same as the current for the people that don't want to rank
opal moat
Not to be rude, but we had to learn our voting system in school before voting since it's actually pretty complicated, and looking at public education in America I'm not sure if that could happen
elder portal
Yeah, I learned about it in school as well
I'm not sure what that has to do with the current system and alternatives though
mystic ermine
I was talking to some girl in the states a few year ago, and her maths was much more advanced than what they teach over here; It was crazy
weary lake
They just throw politics under civics here and call it a day.
But in practice, I just take an online test to see which party aligns best with my views and vote on that; I can't be bothered to track what every single party is doing all the time.
elder portal
If it's a "one vote" system you will eventually get two parties
clever badge
one-vote systems always evolve into polar opposites versus each other
whether that's good or bad is a different question
especially when you're in the US and you already only have 3 things to pick from
faint radish
I’m into the whole ranked choice voting. So that if you vote for a third party, your vote doesn’t end up helping your least fav candidate.
But that’ll never happen in the US cause it’s in the interest of both parties to keep it this way.
weary obsidian
yeah RCV is amazing, i dont understand why anyone would be against it outside of hoping they can benfit from the shittyness for their preferred person
it would cut out a lot of primary drama too, wont need to narrow down to 1, stop attacking each other, everyone worry about the real vote
faint radish
elections in the US are WAYYYY to long.
wasn't it almost 2 years before this nov when Kamala announced?
there just isn't an easy way of shortening them w/o violating 1st amendment.
you have to make it just not worth it to announce that early
bleak echo
well part of the problem is every state does primaries at a different time, so the process is drawn out
but campaign finance regulations could limit the amount of funding available to sustain campaigns, which would probably result in shorter campaigns
faint radish
Limit the amount of money a campaign can have? If that is what you mean (not sure), that probably runs afoul of something.
bleak echo
nope, the US already has campaign contribution limits
but anything can be legal if we amend the constitution
faint radish
right ik there are limits on single donations, but I thought you were talking about a candidates cumulative war chest
no regulations there
drifting arch
near glen
Twitter
foggy fern
bleak echo
fuck
faint radish
I’m not sure what we are supposed to infer from a 79% positivity rate. The testing isn’t random, in fact, it’s far from it. I imagine most testing is biased to people who are more likely to have it.
It’s not like that means 79% of the relevant population has it. In fact... wouldn’t a 100% positivity rate be better? Not wasting tests on anyone. Might not be fully thinking that through. 🤷♂️
bleak echo
part of the point of testing is to get a statistically valid sample of a population to be able to know how prevalent a disease is
if you get 100% positivity, then either you already know who's going to be positive so what's the point in testing, you are not testing all the positive people which is bad, or everyone is positive which is super bad
tldr take a fucking stats class
weak wolf
I mean ideally we'd have a 0% positivity rate
That is to say, noone has it and everyone tested tests negative due to this :^)
faint radish
How do you get from a non-random sample group to how prevalent the virus is?
faint radish
Wouldn’t you have to choose people to test based on location, pop density, probably some other factors?
granite glen
mfw my state got like 94 cases yet we got the strictest lockdown with a curfew 8pm-5am, mandatory masks alongside fine with a chance of it continuing like this until Sept 2021
valid steeple
the mathematics is rather simple
that shit spreads exponentially, so you kill it when it's not exactly a threat or you try to clean up the mess after it gets huge
faint radish
I think you misunderstood what I was talking about
mystic ermine
Depends on what you're tryna measure
Essentially now they're tracking how it spreads between those likely to get it
i.e. those working in health who are around vulnerable people, and those who've had contact with those with the disease within the "likely to transmit" paramaters they have
They're not really aiming to test how much of a population potentially has it with the type of random sampling you'd go for, that would also generally waste tests from those who actually need it, but, there are going to be a fair # of people roaming around who are unsymptomatic, which is part of where the joy of testing is
opal moat
Ideally it wouldn't matter how big of a % of the entire population has it, since ideally only essential workers should be outside anyway, and ideally you would only need to test those to limit the spread
dusky raft
Honestly, this whole thing has become very political. Its really wait till some form of immunity or vaccine arrives. Sadly, the US cant really afford to continue going in a spiral of shutting down the economy for extended periods.
white wing
We should if we saved that 2.5 trillion dollar a year we spend on Medicare, Social Security, and Health on a federal level.
dusky raft
@white wing dont mind me asking, but what do you mean by that? saving money on medicare and other public services like that or from the economy?
white wing
It's kinda hard to explain my view on this topic in few words but basically I think we're spending too much on these sections of goverment and I think we need to put more of that money aside for pandemics or bad situations like this.
shy gulch
Cut military funding in half
white wing
military funding is 1 trillion not 2.5 trillion
oh actually I need to redo my math for how much of the federal budget is spent on social services.
So if you include Medicare, Social Security, Health, Income Security, and Veterans Benefits and Services, the US federal government spent 3.816 Trillion in 2019 on social services.
opal moat
About a trillion too much if you ask me 🤷♀️
white wing
Oh so you just don't want a military?
opal moat
I'd rather not yes
white wing
I can respect that opinion but I think it's a dumb idea realistically.
opal moat
Most ideas are dumb in reality
white wing
But I digress. So that's 3.816 trillion compared to 1.1 trillion to national defense, so halfling national defense spending isn't going to do much.
dusky raft
I think we need to kill a lot of military spending on useless projects that are going nowhere
where is our new military stealth bomber?
where is the new replacement for the m16/m4 platform?
tough cedar
could also get some better oversight on where big relief packages go in the middle of a pandemic 🤔
then maybe we wouldn't have to cut medicare or the military funding
dusky raft
we should also pull out of countries that can clearly pull their own weight
opal moat
I'd like to know where you got your numbers from @white wing because a quick googling got me completely different results
white wing
But yeah I agree there needs to be more oversight on military programs. If you haven't watched Pentagon Wars it's avaliable on youtube for free.
pure jetty
that's for top secret stuff usually
dusky raft
beyond that, the healthcare industry needs an overhaul, but im not pro government on the aspect.
white wing
I should include that in the National Defense spending actually
So that's 3.816 trillion compared to 1.1 trillion to national defense, so halfling national defense spending isn't going to do much.
So change that to
So that's 3.816 trillion compared to 1.435 trillion to national defense, so halfling national defense spending isn't going to do much.
dusky raft
because its not just insurance thats taking all the money, sure, its a large fraction, but when ibuprofen is $120 because some nurse provides me with it, thats a joke.
opal moat
Yeah
white wing
Ahh butter fingers
dusky raft
that was the cost of a pill when I wasnt insured
white wing
the weird part is that the same companies charge less in other countries
opal moat
That's what you get when the complete healthcare system is privatised
That's not weird Seki
dusky raft
its what happens when private companies dont have competition
and enforce it on the government
white wing
It's not the problem of privatization it's a problem of having no choice.
opal moat
Na it's also privatization
pure jetty
there's a lot of choice in the private sector
white wing
lmao no have you seed the PC industry?
pure jetty
but the problem is
white wing
Everything has been getting cheaper
pure jetty
all of the choices all agreed to fix their prices
opal moat
That's why we have the Kartellamt in Germany 🤷
A lot of companies tried that shit and got fined
dusky raft
plus hospitals dont show the prices up front. I mean I get the arguement, you cant see the prices when you are nearly dead or in a coma
white wing
The only choice you have in the united states on health care is what insurance you go with. The problem is the insurance gets to decide what products they buy and for how much.
dusky raft
in/out networking should be banned
white wing
Yeah but then for normal things why should I pay 120 dollars for saline and why is that my only option?
dusky raft
getting a deal for being in network? its utter bullshit
white wing
and then another 100 dollars for a bandage?
I can buy all that shit for less than 50 bucks myself
dusky raft
But I dont believe the federal government should be in charge of the insurance market. I believe if states want to, they should do it and raise taxes
opal moat
Works fine everywhere else 🤷♀️
white wing
Yeah but you also don't have the majority of companies that are actually pioneering in the medical field.
pure jetty
the argument of "it works fine everywhere else" doesn't take in to account how the US works
white wing
^
dusky raft
no, the US is special when it comes to the world stage. its called fuck it, we do what we want to
opal moat
Yeah because the US is special
white wing
It works everywhere else where we take advantage of the infrastructure that the Americans made.
opal moat
Lol what
dusky raft
again, I dont mind the US doing its own thing
much like I think we need to pull out of other countries
not only iraq
pure jetty
The US's inflated drug prices is what allows for us to often have every single damn advantage in the medical development field
white wing
In terms of military and technological innovation the US is ahead in that aspect and that all trickles down to all the other western countries.
opal moat
And only to then copyright the new drug that cures a huge disease and not let anyone else have it :D
pure jetty
why would they not enforce a copyright?
they're the ones doing the research?
they're supposed to just give it up?
white wing
Yeah well that's on the inventor and they are asses for doing that but they put in the time and effort.
opal moat
Science and knowledge should be shared especially when it comes to stuff that affects all humans
white wing
Without them that specific cure for that specific disease wouldn't exist.
pure jetty
i mean the genetic makeup is known for most copyrighted medical stuff but you can't sell it without a license
white wing
Also I agree it should be shared but you're going to have a lot less incentive if you don't protect peoples intellectual property.
pure jetty
nobody would care if there wasn't a big payday at the end
opal moat
Why? If you still get paid?
dusky raft
I dont agree on sharing innovation. If a person labors on a product, is it not theirs?
Sure, they can be an ass
then someone else down the road can find something
opal moat
Idk I just think that's selfish? As long as you get paid for it why not share it?
dusky raft
or you can pursade someone/make a deal
white wing
It is selfish no one is saying it's not but it would be naive to say you would get the same amount of innovation without intellectual property protection.
opal moat
I don't think so actually
I know it's a bit far fetched but look at bukkit plugins
Most of the big ones are open source
That inspires more people to work on them and help make better and new stuff
white wing
Yeah and most of the big servers don't open source their plugins.
pure jetty
^
dusky raft
that is their choice,
pure jetty
nobody who open sources their work expects to make a living wage off it
opal moat
That's The issue
pure jetty
propriety = profit
white wing
No companies sometimes open source their programs if they can use it to get free labor.
dusky raft
plus google's main source isnt from software
its from advertisement and data
software is like a side gig to them
white wing
Well it's more like let's make this software that collects money (in the form of data), oh and let's open source it so that we can get free improvements to the software.
dusky raft
compared to oracle where they are "ah fuck, our shit was open sourced right before we bought sun, quick, lets add some binary blob that prevents people from using our runtime for money"
white wing
But in general I think that in the medical field it makes far more sense to make it so in some cases medical patents require the inventor to allow other entities to manufacture the product and only take a % of the profit not the % of the whole end product.
That keep incentives to develop new technologies but also can keep the field competitive if need be.
dusky raft
patents/copyrights are enforced by the government. if people think its unfair, then why not make new rules for copyright?
opal moat
Copyright rules get changed a lot
dusky raft
enforcement is only as good as the governing body
opal moat
Mostly to benefit Disney tho :D
dusky raft
and this is why us americans have some distrust in the federal government
and this is besides the whole polical nonsense going on now, but in general, people historically have distrusted the federal government on many aspects
and why I dont like giving the government the ability to outright manage my health
white wing
Well for many reasons you give a body too much power and the incentive for corruption will only rise.
dusky raft
Id put my trust more into the states more than the federal government
healthcare handled by each state is more akin to how europe handles healthcare
white wing
From what I heard healthcare in the US where it's less regulated is actually cheaper. But I've not seen any concrete sources for that statement.
dusky raft
its not cheaper
BUT, its first and foremost first come first serve, usually
unless you have medicaid/medicare/other govt insurance, then its back of the line
white wing
Again I don't have any source to support it being cheaper or more expensive so I can't really say anything about it.
It's just a hypothesis that I've heard but I have yet to see it be proven.
dusky raft
what makes europe's healthcare and others cheaper is due in part of them enforcing prices
plus they put alot more money into their health insurance
but its a mixed bag
white wing
right so you would have body of goverment in charge of pricing then?
dusky raft
I keep hearing how the NHS is such a horrible system from a few people I know from the UK
sadly, mental health isnt a priority over there
white wing
But the general idea is to have a body of government in charge of pricing correct?
dusky raft
yeap, and how much they get in
white wing
So if implemented in the US what's stopping large companies from lobbying and increasing prices?
dusky raft
yes
white wing
yes
dusky raft
well thats the problem. I really dont like the duality of this issue. We have one side that wants medicare for all but no way to enforce how cheap it is on the taxpayers
plus DC has a corporate issue
well
it has a career politican issue and corporate issue
you can make medicare for all, but nothing is stopping big business from lobbying for bigger amounts of money
opal moat
Thing is the nhs is bad because they got their funding cut every year for a long time now
dusky raft
and oh look, we got our military complex prices
and thats the problem with it
government decides what to fund
white wing
what really last time I looked at the NHS the funding was increasing. hmmm
Again military is nothing in the US budget.
It's a lot but the US budget is bigger.
dusky raft
im not saying military spending is wrong
what im saying is that we are putting money in the wrong places
white wing
No it's wrong it's just nothing compared to everything else.
dusky raft
and wasteful projects from the military complex
opal moat
You still spend more on military than every other country in the world combined
dusky raft
and we put military camps in every other nation that wasnt 2nd world
white wing
Yeah that's because every western country is relying on the US
pure jetty
i wouldn't say every
dusky raft
if it wasnt communist, chances are it had a US military base before 1990
white wing
Heck Germany and the US have the best relationship with Germany acting as a huge logistical base for the US and it's operations in the middle east.
white wing
No still
opal moat
Also many Germans are very glad that we have the privilege to have your nukes and troops in our country, just like every other country with them /s
white wing
you say that with sarcasm but you sure do act like you do.
opal moat
Not really no
dusky raft
I still think we should pull out of europe entirely and let them fend for themselves
opal moat
Most of Europe agrees
white wing
Yeah I don't think your goverments would agree with that
dusky raft
yeah, lets go back to pre 1900 where the US was doing its own thing that wasnt enforcing world politics
white wing
And I'm 100% sure the majority of eastern europe would not like that.
dusky raft
considering russia, not at all
white wing
Though I agree with the idea
We really should just pull out but to say that Europe wants the US to pull out is a lie.
opal moat
yeah, lets go back to pre 1900 where the US was doing its own thing that wasnt enforcing world politics
US politics, not world politics
white wing
At this point US politics and world politics are synonymous.
white wing
yes not actually but kind of
shut vine
The healthcare issue is a fairly difficult problem to solve. Generally you either give up quality or pay through the nose somehow for it. I don't think Romneycare really solved America's issues, it was amazing for the health insurance companies though. I personally like the idea of a safety net for those who genuinely can't afford private health insurance.. I think realistically the question is how far do you go and what limits should be imposed.
clever badge
I don't see any evidence indicating that countries with tax-funded healthcare are worse off
I don't see how they 'give up quality'
waiting times can be longer, sure. but that's a product of population
torpid bear
Let’s take a poll. React 🔵 for Joe Biden, and 🔴 for Donald Trump. People who can’t vote (such as minors and non-Americans) can still participate.
shut vine
I'm not saying that the US isn't, just that it's a complicated problem.
dusky raft
under NH, I dont know about other states, its for people who work under $1200/mo
it is a complex problem
but people see it at the insurance level and not hospital and whatnot
shut vine
As far as the tax-funded being worse off, I think when we're dumping so much into healthcare we need evidence to the affirmative that it is BETTER.
Throwing money at a problem doesn't necessarily just fix it.
(in response to Crimson)
dusky raft
and I dont want a NHS style healthcare system in which the government decides what treatments I can be on
shut vine
What do you think about the government forcing or incentivizing people to get private health? I'm against it.
dusky raft
government should not give a shit about my overall health
shut vine
Well indirectly I support incentivization (i.e. if you don't have it, and have to go to an ER, you pay a tax).
dusky raft
no
when it comes to health in general, the government should leave the choice up to the person, not themselves on what is best
shut vine
At the very least you pay the full cost of the visit.
dusky raft
what I do want to see is a more streamlined process for health insurance companies
get rid of the whole in/out of networking nonsense
mystic ermine
I don't see any evidence indicating that countries with tax-funded healthcare are worse off
We literally have month long queues for vital things like cancer treatments
My best mate was waiting 6 months for medication to try to deal with a skin condition which literally causes her body to attack her own skin causing boils andstufflike that, she's also diabetic, so her ability for her body to heal itself is already comprimized
The issue is that the system is drastically underfunded and overloaded
The NHS is amazing and the nurses, doctors, etc, are generally amazing; But, the system is far from free from issues
The only thing i have to pay for is prescriptions, which is semi rip off if you need a box of antibiotics which cost 0.05p for a pack, as you pay a flat fee, but, it sorta helps cover others
dusky raft
from hearing that condition, didnt she visit the emergency room?
mystic ermine
multiple times
dusky raft
and you would think that would put her on a high priority list for treatment?
mystic ermine
best they could do is shove her on IV antibiotics, which sorta kinda helped, but, not a viable solution long term for varying reasons
She was on a high priority list
mystic ermine
fwiw, she's had this condition presenting for like 4 years
She tried various things, even had a skin graft as she needed it with the size of the wound she had at the time, no chance of it healing
Her skin is scared to all shit in these areas and stuff
dusky raft
its sad to see people with those types of conditions get told to wait in the back of the line
same with mental health problems
mystic ermine
mental health support in the UK is shaky as all fuck
dusky raft
I hear its horrible
mystic ermine
I have MH issues and was on meds, but, they basically broke my brain and right now I'm still tryna get my brain back into gear properly; The support programs in place are also stupidly split up into age groups, so if you come in needing support and are gonna cross that bracket in a year or two type of deal, it's a complete joke
dusky raft
at least here in the US, the emergency room may provide some powerful anti anxiety medications
weary lake
Pretty sure waiting list for MH issues are like 2 years plus here as well
dusky raft
sadly that is the case, and its got a horrible rep regardless where you go
weary lake
"Oh it's just mental health, it's not important"
dusky raft
It is important to keep society functioning. I do not agree with medication and such as the be all end all, but it does help prevent people from being completely torn within
the sad thing is that anti anxiety/depression meds can be abused
opal moat
reminds me that i need to find a new therapy yay
dusky raft
xanax is a powerful anti anxiety drug that gets abused
mystic ermine
part of the problem is that medication is pure guess work
mystic ermine
apparently there are actually mechanisms to try to determine which drugs might be better, iirc, but, they're not really used
dusky raft
well, the problem is that some drugs take time to start working
opal moat
I'm on citalopram for over 3 years now and i dont even know if its any good
dusky raft
SSRIs take time to get working
mystic ermine
I was on SSRIs for a while, they just made me tired
Like, my desk was in the kitchen area of a shared living room/kitchen room in a flat
I literally couldn't make a cup of tea without having to got sit down because of how drained they just made me feel
dusky raft
I was on one SSRI which made me more anxious, and another where I felt like my head was going to explode
drifting arch
was on escitalopram for a while, and they didn't help me. but that's me.
pure jetty
altho that didn't give me any more faith in the cdc
funny how the people spreading that were all like "don't trust the cdc!!!!!!" and now that they agree with what they're saying they change their tone
restive seal
This stems from an idiot misunderstanding what comorbidity means.
pure jetty
yeah lmao
faint radish
well didn't churchill say "I change my opinion when the facts change, what do you do?"
restive seal
They think all the pneumonia deaths aren't covid, and it's really sad.
faint radish
well there were stories about someone dying in a motorcycle accident while they had covid. and it being recorded as a covid death right?
restive seal
I haven't heard those stories, but that can't be high enough a number to skew the stats unless motorcycle deaths are way higher than I thought 😛
faint radish
that was one example lol.
but there are financial incentives for hospitals to maximize covid death numbers right? pretty sure there is some federal/state funding doled out based on that
idk how widespread that would be, but im sure it happened somewhere
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/florida-motorcyclist-covid-death/ looks like it was initially true, then rectified
restive seal
Please be careful with the "financial incentives" comment as it rides dangerously close to a bullshit conspiracy theory that hospitals are mislabeling deaths for money. That one stems from people misunderstanding how hospital billing works, IIRC? (edit: fixed first sentence last two words)
valid steeple
conspiracy theory time
trump is a superhuman from the future here to save us from the green aliens hiding in human suits pretending to be human]
green lizards sorry
can you prove me wrong 
restive seal
No, you got it in one guess leaf.
shut vine
I mean, regardless of the reason, a doctor should not be pressured or even encouraged to find a death is caused by a certain thing. It should 100% be scientific only.
restive seal
I'm not sure anyone's disagreeing on that.
shut vine
The ones that seemed most suspicious to me were people who died in palliative care and contracted SARS-CoV-2 while they were there being ruled as caused by the virus.
Though, I don't think we'll have a clear picture for a year or more about most things related to the virus.
pure jetty
Problem was that cov2 deaths led to a direct compensation
so a bunch of hospitals were saying to claim as much as possible was a cov2 death
pretty sure that was fixed tho
faint radish
Yes, I think it was. I was just doing some digging around.
shut vine
Yeah, I heard the same regarding the financial incentive. I don't think the incentive is the issue itself.
There were the doctors in Cali who explained it, didn't get much MSM attention.
near glen
It really depends on how you count covid deaths
Many statistics just track outcome, you either recover, still have it, or die
Doesn't matter how you died
Just gotta make sure everybody understands what a giving statistic is tracking
Ridiculing such statistics because you didn't read into what they track just undermines all factual information, helping post factual ppl like trump
near glen
@plush crypt https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/thousands-turn-out-in-berlin-to-protest-coronavirus-measures/a-54756290
Didn't read the article, but that has a pic in it at the end
plush crypt
thats quite something
near glen
Police obviously quickly reacted and conquered the stairs back
But ye, it was scary to watch
Also pics like this
Also obviously no masks, cause freedom
But in Germany luckly that protest only had 20k idiots
It's bad, but in comparison to elsewhere we fine
opal moat
The judge that even allowed that in the first place is an idiot. Allowing a demo as long as people respect the hygiene measures - when the people demonstrating oppose those measures
near glen
I mean
nothing wrong protesting against the measures while still respecting them
in a functional democracy that would work
these ppl dont want to be a part of a functional democracy tho
opal moat
Yeah but it was announced that they won't be respected
mystic ermine
Pretty sure that in the UK we just found out other week or so that our stats are inflated
had covid? left the hospital after being declared fit? Fell down the stairs and broke your neck? Well, shit... That's covid for ya
brisk cradle
Republicans: "Corona was made by the Chinese to weaken the American economy, but don't worry, the virus is disappearing"
Numbers show that corona is getting worse
Republicans: "Inconvenient! Doctor the data!"
"Focus" on the "Family"?
https://www.westword.com/news/covid-19-outbreak-at-focus-on-the-family-colorado-update-11783294
More QAnon crap https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2020/08/27/pastors-are-losing-church-members-to-qanon-swapping-one-myth-for-another/
I'm almost convinced Q, probably (a group of?) 4chan trolls is the next L. Ron Hubbard, finding a ready audience amongst a well-primed conservative audience
Doesn't matter, the trolls have largely succeeded in becoming a part of what passes for "mainstream conservative thought" in the US
shy gulch
Republicans: "Corona was made by the Chinese to weaken the American economy, but don't worry, the virus is disappearing"
Numbers show that corona is getting worse
Republicans: "Inconvenient! Doctor the data!"
@brisk cradle
Democrat: Republican bad
Republican: Democrat bad
dusky raft
Id revise that, its more like
Democrat: Republican Evil
Republican: Democrat stupid
near glen
As an European, I side with sane over evil
Altho I don't like Biden as a person, I feel like he has what it takes to bring that country back to a sane middle ground
Bringing the country together, not diving further like trumpet
dusky raft
I honestly think that biden would be worse than what we have currently. The issue I have is the fact over that the democrats have screamed at trump for the last 4 years at how horrible of a man he can be, going far as to attack him personally, then prop up a man who they show issues they claimed trump has, ie, mental issues. I hate defending trump because of all this stupidity, but I dont like how far the democrats are going to achieve their end goal.
shy gulch
People need to drop the party bias and just vote for whoever will run the country better
dusky raft
Welcome to the US
in all reality, I would love to see more parties come in, the problem is how much airtime the big two get, nevermind it being ingrained into the minds of people.
shy gulch
I love how Trumps campaign talks about how he will stop the violence and get us through covid if he is reelected almost as if HE IS AND HAS NOT BEEN PRESIDENT FOR THE PAST FOUR YEARS.
dusky raft
this is a recent issue on his reelection year...
hes going to say that
again, I fucking hate defending the man, but he has to take into context of now and the future
shy gulch
Or he could stop using it as a campaign ad and just do it
Id like for him to start working on these issues now
dusky raft
under governor authorization
the only thing he is allowed to do is defend federal property without authorization
shy gulch
Stopping violence and helping communities rebuild/recover is not as complicated as sending in the fucking military unauthorized.
He himself claims he will do this if reelected
So whatever he is promising should just be done and not some bargaining weapon.
dusky raft
okay, so, how should the violence be stopped when a town board/mayor refuses to get assistence for, I dont know, 80+ days in certain towns/cities.
add the defund the police message
good luck
shy gulch
He himself claims he will do this if reelected
@shy gulch
So whatever he is promising should just be done and not some bargaining weapon.
@shy gulch
mystic ermine
Defund the police!
shy gulch
No.
mystic ermine
meanwhile
gets attackedWHERE'S THE POLICE?!
dusky raft
defending?
shy gulch
Defunding*
mystic ermine
More cash needs to be devoted to social solutions
shy gulch
Sorry I'm on my phone and jave big thumbs
mystic ermine
The issue right now is that police are being called into situations which they are not trained for
shy gulch
Exactly
mystic ermine
Now, there is two major issues here
- Police are not trained to deal with these types of situations
- At what point does the role of police end, and social care step in?
shy gulch
Had the police arresting a 7yr old with handcuffs who punched his teacher in the arm
dusky raft
Id understand it more if it was a 16 year old, but not 7
a 16 year old poses more of a threat than under 10
but yeah, if anything, police forces in these big cities where riots are occuring need more funding
shy gulch
I dont know why this is related but sure
dusky raft
and get some proper direction
shy gulch
16 year old strength > 10 year old strength
dusky raft
yes
dusky raft
yeah, I love me some peaceful protests, let me go smash a black owned business in the name of blacklivesmatter
mystic ermine
I loved the story other year where they set some immigrants limo or taxi or whatever on fire
dusky raft
blm?
shy gulch
Theae cities have police forces from multiple counties but station them outside the peaceful protests meanwhile 0 police ar anywhere near local stores.and communities
mystic ermine
yes
dusky raft
im not surprised
mystic ermine
Or one of those organisations, other day they literally stormed and threatened to kill the dude writing the stuff to end no-knock warrants
dusky raft
there is no saying where these protests/riots will occur
shy gulch
No.
mystic ermine
Not to mention the NYC mayor whos house got raided after he congratulated the peaceful protestors
mystic ermine
apparently it's literally all happening in the public on twitter
shy gulch
The cities then stack every police officer at these protests leaving the rest of the city prone to riots
dusky raft
yeah, BLM claims itself to be a political organization, and the heads of the organization are professed marxists
mystic ermine
Not really cared to look, but, with twitters history, it really wouldn't surprise me
The video of the store owner too
"You looking to get trump reelected?"
dusky raft
at this point, I sure as hell am not looking for november
its going to be a shitshow regardless who wins
opal moat
@shy gulch please dont resort to ableism and remember the community guidelines
shy gulch
because I said autism?
opal moat
because using autism as a deregatory word is ableist
dusky raft
sadly it can be seen as negative in context
shy gulch
Im using it as it is
Autism is a social disorder
I think Americans are socially disordered
mentally
autistic
not a licensed medical worker btw
😛
dusky raft
I just say americans are different from european thinking
opal moat
still ableist.
?warn @shy gulch Ableism is against the community guidelines, please check them out on our homepage
red mountainBOT
Warning logged for MoistPencil#8539. I couldn't DM them. || Ableism is against the community guidelines, please check them out on our homepage
shy gulch
How is claiming people who I perceive as showing signs of a social disorder autism discriminatory
?
dusky raft
But yeah, I do not like it when people take mental health lightly. I have ADHD, minor compared to some other disorders.
pearl plinth
someone acting autistic doesn't mean they have autism... don't assume unless you know. that's the problem
shy gulch
I mean I have multiple diagnosed mental disorders but I do not see it as relevant to publicly say what they are
pearl plinth
exactly, doesn't make sense
shy gulch
If someone is acting as if they have a social disorder like autism they are acting autistic no?
pearl plinth
youre right, No
dusky raft
I mean technically in the US, your free to say whatever the hell you want. However there are laws against libel and slander.
pure jetty
idk if english is your first language but some people view calling people autistic as an insult against autistic people
shy gulch
If someone is acting what is considered stupid and I perceive them as stupid whats the issue?
pearl plinth
That's not the issue and how does that relate
shy gulch
Im not insulting autistic people, Im insulting the people that have the mental capability to think but are acting as if they have a social disorder.
pearl plinth
Oh so you're saying it's bad for people to pretend they have disorders?
shy gulch
If anything acting what can be diagnosed as autistic with the full capability to think is offensive.
dusky raft
at the highest level its a social disorder, however certain aspects such as low functioning autism is much more
pearl plinth
#politics message
This makes it sound like autistic people can't think at full capacity, I can't understand this properly
opal moat
idk if english is your first language but some people view calling people autistic as an insult against autistic people
thats the definition of ableism
and that is not allowed in this discord
end of debate
shy gulch
here we go
opal moat
No
shy gulch
:/
pure jetty
oh okay
opal moat
You explained the definition of ableism^^
shy gulch
You are the one who perceived my comment as an insult
are you ableist?!??!?!??!?!?!
😮
pearl plinth
Do I act or sound autistic to you? Genuine question.
pearl plinth
Oh I did, trust me
shy gulch
and?
pure jetty
khjgbvsdafioyuhdfsahibkjasdfghbikasfghbjkasfdgafsdghbjkagfsdbhkjgfasbhkjgafsafgsdjkhbafeghbkjgfadshbkj
dude just stop
shy gulch
I am just trying to find why my comment was considered "ableist"
opal moat
Because it was ableist. I already explained it to you. I'd suggest you drop the discussion now, as I already warned you and debating the rules is not up to you.
pearl plinth
Yeah don't be surprised when you see a picture of you on that article
shy gulch
If someone is in a wheelchair and I assume they may be paralyzed is this ableist?
pearl plinth
Yes
shy gulch
o_o
pearl plinth
Those who give birth usually are in a wheelchair after they give birth, they aren't paralyzed are they? Well, we don't know (and don't care). Leg injuries sometimes result in a wheelchair, still not paralyzed
shy gulch
But from a distance they show a obvious symptom of being paralyzed from the waste down
If a doctor narrows down a diagnoses is this ableist
Someone shows symptoms of autism but they are also symptoms of dyslexia and the doctor might at first think the kid has autism
Is this ableist?
brisk cradle
@shy gulch In case you're wondering, I actually disapprove of both of the major political parties. I vote for Democrats, but only because they tend to be marginally less awful.
plush crypt
Please just drop it. Stick to the topic of the channel.
plush crypt
bye dyno
shy gulch
This is political no?
pearl plinth
No
brisk cradle
Ableism isn't political
plush crypt
manually banned him lol
opal moat
yea
dusky raft
I do not agree with democrats, mainly with the stupid stunts they have been pulling off and the inaction on local issues.
dusky raft
Well, there is a fair share from republicans, but democrats have just had enough time to pull their cities/states together
but they dont do anything
brisk cradle
Actually, my real political beliefs are left-libertarian... I'm actually more of a libertarian socialist/centrist Marxist (I know)
red mountainBOT
I can't find user @flint lantern.
dusky raft
ye marxism, needs to go die
brisk cradle
Capitalism must die
brisk cradle
Capitalism must die anyway
dusky raft
the state doesnt decide for what I should do or not
brisk cradle
You seem to think of socialism on a rather cartoonish scale. Socialism comes in both authoritarian and libertarian flavors.
dusky raft
try every socialist state that attempted to centralize business
opal moat
I always love the argument "socialism has always failed" and in the meantime capitalism is killing people left and right but does not get considered as "failed"
brisk cradle
More economic liberty doesn't always equate to more freedom. Many American states are now considered flawed democracies.
dusky raft
the problem is that we told companies to live in DC
plush crypt
ive gotta admit ive strayed from the ultra left side to more of a socdem; i don't mind some people having a more capitalist view of shit, up to them, but having stuff for most people should be practically free due to being paid for through taxes, and should help the individual
dusky raft
and politicians have the power to break them up, they just decide not in their best interest
what different is that from a socialist state where polticians do the same thing?
pearl plinth
I don't agree with any side really
opal moat
idk as long as I'm being treated as shit because I'm unable to work capitalism deserves death
dusky raft
but I would like to hear which states are socialist
pearl plinth
They all have stuff I equally like and don't like
brisk cradle
Likewise, China, whilst it still has an extensive public sector, has a very big private sector, and yet freedoms there are minimal.
pearl plinth
So I can't align myself anywhere
brisk cradle
China's ruling party may fashion itself as communist, but it is not in a strict sense communist. It's more of an authoritarian social market economy.
dusky raft
they were strictly communist at one point, realized that was not a good idea or they end up as another USSR
but the thing is that they have more phone companies than the US
brisk cradle
It's true that China doesn't have democracy, but go look at America, the picture doesn't improve there, and the people adding voting restrictions tend to also love extreme economic freedom.
brisk cradle
Voter IDs
dusky raft
oh, you cant drive?
brisk cradle
de facto poll taxes
tough cedar
Can't mail in vote in Texas unless you're old
brisk cradle
"Exact match" bullshit
tough cedar
Or not in the state
brisk cradle
USPS sabotage
dusky raft
and democrats claimed that mail in voting was fool proof
tough cedar
That's a lame restriction so now I'll have to go out and actually vote
brisk cradle
Phony claims of "voter fraud" and draconian measures taken to "solve" a "problem" that doesn't exist
Okay, it technically exists, but if your effort to argue for restrictions to combat them catalogues at best 3,000 cases over 30 years, I fail to see how it's a major problem
dusky raft
I said from day one when democrats wanted to do mailin voting that it was going to be a shitshow and bitch later down the road it was going to be prone the voter fraud
when they said it was to secure election fraud
brisk cradle
later down the road it was going to be prone the voter fraud
[citation needed]
restive seal
Mail in voting has been a thing for a very, very long time without being a shitshow or full of voter fraud.
dusky raft
it wasnt a huge vector to look at
brisk cradle
That well-known bastion of the Republican party, Utah, conducts their elections entirely by mail, by the way.
dusky raft
besides the flaws in the US, I do want to hear some socialist states that exist
that question was deflected
brisk cradle
Your definition of "socialism" is pretty wide, it could mean anything from actual communist states to any nation with single-payer universal health care (gasp, the horrors!)
dusky raft
so single payer healthcare defined socialism?
brisk cradle
Nope, I refer to your definition of "socialism"
dusky raft
I want to hear yours
brisk cradle
Which, if I understand correctly, comes from Fox News
And they branded Obama a communist. He's actually a neoliberal.
dusky raft
I want to hear what marxists/communists/socialists define it
not what I hear from fox news
brisk cradle
I would award points, but I'm too tired.
valid steeple
socialism is where you start taking property / means of production and redistribute I think
dusky raft
thats what I hear
brisk cradle
Not really correct
dusky raft
then you admit that part of it is?
valid steeple
well I meant as in it's the biggest part of it
brisk cradle
valid steeple
I think my definition fits pretty well given that
brisk cradle
That is one socialist policy, yes, but it's not the definition of "socialism"
dusky raft
yeah, its the same thing
valid steeple
you have to take the property to redistribute it to the community
dusky raft
you have to take property rights away
valid steeple
so I wouldn't call healthcare policies socialist
opal moat
taking property to redistribute it to the community, aka Taxes
brisk cradle
Single-payer healthcare wouldn't be socialist at all
valid steeple
cuz that has basically fuck all to do with taking property / redistribution
valid steeple
socialism is cancer that's how you tell
brisk cradle
Single-payer would be a pretty reasonably social democratic policy.
dusky raft
I mean, if that was the case, the US is quasi socialist with medicaid/medicare
along with other welfare policies
oh wait, its not socialist unless its done in a certain way
brisk cradle
The US is barely socialist. Yeah, we have Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security, but their benefits are meager at best and insulting at worst. The Clintonite/Blairite "welfare reform" austerity bell continues to toil here.
It's actually important to understand that social democracy is also socialism, albeit a very mild form of it
dusky raft
welfare != socialism
brisk cradle
Social democracy involves a bit more than welfare
valid steeple
the key part of socialism is property redistribution
alternatively community ownership of such property
but stealing the property is generally how you get there
dusky raft
an stealing property here in the US is going to have to be done by force
brisk cradle
Generally, social democrats support only the most minor of property redistribution, mostly by taxing the wealthy more and typically a national, single-payer health care and pension system
dusky raft
considering the gun ownership
valid steeple
idk if taxes is redistribution of property
wealth maybe considering a welfare system
dusky raft
so my thing is here with socialists, cut the fluff and bullshit and say what you want.
brisk cradle
Depends on whether or not you consider wealth to be property, I'm pretty sure someone will argue so.
valid steeple
yeah idk if wealth is considered property
dusky raft
wealth is property
valid steeple
you're my property
dusky raft
at least in common sense
as such, stocks are considered wealth, and are what people consider ownership of a company
same with land
the rich have a good mixture of liquid, stocks, bonds, etc.
I dont know if this is currently accurate, but apple is worth $1 trillion dollars, but only have $300 billion in liquid assets
brisk cradle
The average Social Security check, for instance, is just barely above the poverty line for one person (and even then the poverty line is too low)
dusky raft
at least from what I hear
social security is falling apart. I dont think people should have waited for SS to take care of them and instead opted to save a bit
brisk cradle
Social Security could be easily fixed and expanded in one stroke, but the financial services industry doesn't like that. They also didn't like it when some states tried to encourage compulsory retirement savings.
All you'd need to do is abolish the current cap on Social Security taxation of income and apply it to capital gains too.
Perhaps after a certain amount of money, that money wouldn't count as much, so you don't get multi-billionaires drawing huge Social Security checks.
After that, you have the money to unilaterally expand benefits by a few hundred dollars per month, plus institute other reforms to make Social Security a more progressive distributor of "wealth"
dusky raft
I think rather than mandating it across the board on payouts, it should be opt in based on current amount of assets you have
brisk cradle
I'm pretty sure a lot of Social Security recipients would enjoy an extra $200 or $300 per month for life.
dusky raft
because people who do save quite a bit, lets say $20/wk based on a weekly paycheck can save up to $40k in 40 years. While I dont see people on minimum wage doing this, but say people who work on higher end jobs can easily do that
brisk cradle
Not only that, it'd also juice the economy due to increased consumer spending. Now I've come full social democratic here.
can save up to $40k in 40 years
You shitting me? You think $40k is going to get someone through retirement?
brisk cradle
Someone who has $40k in retirement assets is in deep trouble if they're going to retire.
They will almost certainly have to rely on Social Security.
dusky raft
but again, your blowing it up a bit, because that was some basic math I did when coming up with that. People can save more or less
SS cant cover everyone
brisk cradle
$80/month for retirement savings is a joke.
$80/month is what you spend on buying coffee.
dusky raft
ew
no
I dont know where the hell you are, but thats expensive for coffee
and if its starbucks, crappy burnt coffee
brisk cradle
Still, point is, $80/month in retirement savings is not a real retirement plan is it?
dusky raft
I mean, what is?
$15/hr isnt going to help either, nor is skyrocketing city rental prices
a lot of the issues we have is currently down to what the government is doing
brisk cradle
A better retirement plan would be something like socking away 10-20% of your income into a retirement plan
dusky raft
most companies do offer retirement plans and do put money into it themselves
brisk cradle
Ideally, you'd want to follow decent advice like the Bogleheads philosophy
dusky raft
usually its a 1-1 match
of course its a 401k, so it is at the mercy of the stock market
not for the faint of heart if you dont want to plan risks
I do believe there are some safe guards
however, before my account was converted into an IRA last year, I owned a 401k and doubled what I threw into it
restive seal
Not everyone can afford to put 10% of their salary into retirement, which is a problem.
dusky raft
no, not everyone
sadly, a lot of it gets eaten by rent and other bills
but hey, gotta get the newest iphone every year
pearl plinth
Getting rid of social security tax bs is my only argument
6.5% for the boomers, 0% to the people who need it
smh
dusky raft
and thus the revolving door problem
restive seal
but hey, gotta get the newest iphone every year
Are you suggesting a vast majority of people who cannot afford to put 10% of their income into retirement savings are buying the newest iphone every year? This nonsense again?
dusky raft
people cant save, so government steps in and taxes everyone, and people claim they cant save
its a joke @restive seal
of course no one can buy an iphone every year
well
people do
restive seal
It's a "joke" that I have already seen repeatedly used as a serious statement in here a few times this month!
dusky raft
but not everyone
but being more serious, having an expensive phone is a luxury to have
considering the prices of iphones nowadays
along with apple watches
and whatever apple is going to plan on releasing
for me, a $150 phone is all I need
though I need to replace it soon as 3G is looking to be phased out
dusky raft
im shocked its actually cheap
well considering apple
sub $500 for a phone is crazy to them
pearl plinth
And it's not a shit phone either
I think it's iPhone 11 specs
In an iPhone 8 case
dusky raft
yeah
its some iphone 11 specs in an iphone 8 case
it really shows design costs more than the internals
lol
pearl plinth
And the older phones get cheaper every year and they're still very capably devices
dusky raft
I prefer my android phones, but iOS has been getting some traction again
faint radish
they usually announce new physical products in the fall right?
faint radish
they don't usually announce new products at WWDC, that is for developers, mainly their various operating systems
white wing
With the CDC correcting their numbers as I said before thats to be expected, none of our numbers are accurate, but I rather go off a large number than a small number.
TL:DR Better safe than sorry.
dusky raft
yeah, accuracy isnt great*, but I would say worse case can be accurate
id prefer middle of the road with data sources known to be good
brisk cradle
Also, we already had WWDC, and the big headline there was "Macs are going to use our own SoCs"
Makes logical sense, they cut out Intel, which has been largely rehashing the 6th generation for 5 years now
Apparently, Intel's reached the end of the road with Skylake and either they've got to improve their 10nm yields (improving, but still awful) or they'll have to hackney a 10-15% IPC increase on their long-mature 14nm process.
WTF this isn't #share-your-pc
runs
dusky raft
Lol
brisk cradle
Someone was talking about iPhones in here lol
dusky raft
Let's head to general, because I do want to rip intel a new one
white wing
Table 3 shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death. The number of deaths with each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and by age groups.
restive seal
For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned
Having learned more about how cause of death is recorded, 6% a remarkable number of doctors recording cause of death wrong!
white wing
I personally doubt doctors are recording cases wrong it's probably the fault of some admins somewhere.
Anyways this should answer someone's (I don't remember who), question on why I think that all the current COVID numbers are inaccurate. They can be a lot more or they can be a lot less. Right now in the US at least it seems like numbers are over reported.
This doesn't mean that I'm advocating to stop social distancing or to stop wearing masks I'm just saying at this moment it doesn't make sense to compare the responses of different countries to COVID based on numbers, again at least for now.
It would be nice for us to get some better analytics though like the CDC has done here.
faint radish
was this the link that twitter was removing tweets with?
I heard about a link that people were tweeting out to the CDC that twitter was removing for some reason.
ok, looks like it was only trump. I think he tweeted out that link, highlighting that 6% number and twitter removed it
white wing
No idea. But I would say it's possible.
faint radish
oh, looks like trump framed that 6% as meaning the real covid death rate should be only 6% of the reported number
so yeah, I guess that is misrepresenting what the cdc said. but still, that really isn't the job of twitter
politicians spin shit like that all the time... and when twitter takes action against one, all it does is leave them open to attack when they don't follow suit on the rest
white wing
Well I'd aay they're within reason to remove tweets if they take responsibility for everything that happens on their platform. If they don't take responsibility for stuff on their platform they shouldn't be removing anything.
faint radish
yeah, I think I agree with that.
for a while, I was encouraged by facebook (ikr? how is that possible) when they said they weren't going to censor political ads if they were "fact-checked" to be false. but pretty sure they caved to their employees
white wing
Well ads are a different story unless they are giving out ad spots at a flat rate.
faint radish
now that you say that, im not sure it was just ads. lemme see
no, looks like it was ad related. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/technology/facebook-political-ads-lies.html
white wing
Yeah then thats a different story since you posting an ad on your service would be you publishing content on your service.
faint radish
idk how facebook ads work, but I don't think its facebook posting them. pretty sure its similar to twitter where you "promote" a post
so im not sure that qualifies as facebook publishing something
facebook would just be boosting the visibility of something that you (the person paying) wrote.
maybe thats the definition of a publisher tho 😆
white wing
Oh yeah we really need to categorize these companies into either publishers or platforms.
near glen
They get vetted tho jake
Yes they are just posts, but just like on other platforms, if you pay for promotion, it first gets reviewed
icy fiber
https://www.facebook.com/lilzoelee/videos/10158502844469137/ my state is a disaster
pure jetty
Oh yeah we really need to categorize these companies into either publishers or platforms.
ads usually have nothing to do with safe harbor since the placement is done automatically
dusky raft
The problem with social media is the total bias towards certain political groups/people
Twitter is a cesspool for politics
pure jetty
The problem with social media is the total bias towards certain political groups/people
this problem is one they're legally allowed to have
it's a cesspool sure
dusky raft
Yes, as they are private companies
dusky raft
It's bad, really bad
Very lefty in the more communist aspect
I've seen comrade used more often on that platform than anywhere else on the internet
Nevermind the whole fact checking bs
If your getting your information from fact checkers, then you seriously need to diversify your media consumption
brisk cradle
total bias towards certain political groups/people
Classic conservative tropes again. If anything, Twitter and Facebook have been treating the right with kid gloves.
Yet if one Trump tweet gets a small warning people are going to ignore you guys get triggered.
near glen
It's just that conservatives get exposed to sane ppl outside of their bubble on Twitter
pure jetty
but meh first ammendment!!!!1!!! ban twitter!!11!1!
bleak echo
ah yes, the famously state-owned twitter
restive seal
deep-state-owned, @bleak echo 😉
bleak echo
well if it's deep state owned, then it's only subject to the deep 1st ammendment, not the regular 1st ammendment
restive seal
Ah yes. The right to paid-by-soros speech!
Or can they be called rights? Do they have to be called lefts instead?
restive seal
On that note I haven't got my soros bucks for september, so should I be working now or should I wait until the money shows up in my account?
bleak echo
hmm, you might want to talk to soros HR about that, their direct deposit system can be a bit funky
dusky raft
@brisk cradle facebook yes, twitter has been known to really put bias on conservatives
brisk cradle
Gosh, I have never gotten my Soros shilling money. Being a part of the liberal conspiracy doesn’t pay!
dusky raft
I dont believe that shit 100%. Sure, soros heads/funds organizations that have a more left wing view on things, but I dont think hes outright paying protesters directly
brisk cradle
Do you not realize we are joking
dusky raft
and people thought I was serious with the whole get an iphone every year...
But besides the point, soros is just giving his money away for causes he believes in, and to be honest, considering his age, there isnt much to gain for 5 years of chaos some people believe hes doing
yeah, hes 90, I really doubt the whole take over the world nonsense matches his age.
but what does strike me is how the rich are democratic (the party) in nature
opaque prairie
rich as in senators, or as in people who donate money to the party
restive seal
Strikes you why?
Are rich people not allowed to care about the environment, the poor, minorities, etc? 😛
dusky raft
im talking about big tech and banking
opaque prairie
youre going to have to elaborate more please
near glen
It's just that, the older you get, the more you get a better view for the big picture
So you start to care about how you leave this planet behind
And realize how fortunate you are, and try to help.less fortunate ppl
dusky raft
Well I find it a odd position for them to push further regulations while at the same time getting richer. Personally I dont give a damn about how rich people are, but its just an oddity really that near monopolies or big banking align themselves more with democrats than republicans
and yet we have the same party that demonizes them
near glen
Because not everybody is morally dead
dusky raft
also damn the environment politics
dusky raft
no, because hypocrites
near glen
Well, not too sure what you are referring too, but you can at least try
And make steps in the right direction
dusky raft
its kind of why california is having massive wild fires is due to lack of management
opaque prairie
same with australia earlier this year then?
near glen
And well, the global climate catastrophe that's influencing weather everywhere
dusky raft
then why burn towns/cities when you can build fire lanes?
restive seal
Wat
opaque prairie
they do do that, but if its too windy, or other various circumstances they dont always work
restive seal
inb4 raking forests
near glen
Are you a firefighter?
dusky raft
no, but my father worked in forest management for a few years
near glen
Idk, I would just assume that californian firefighters have enough experience with these kind of stuff and don't need to be schooled in discord
Cause you know, they are actually trained for this
dusky raft
fire fighting is different from forest management...
but what I am saying is that rather than continue to make the situation worse and displace even more people, they should enact counter meatures to prevent whole towns from burning down
near glen
I think "dealing with forest fires" is well inside the area of expertise californian fire fighters have
opal moat
lol Zyphis what do you think they have been doing the whole time
dusky raft
I dont know, greenpeace suing for you chopping down a tree?
faint radish
in CA, lots of perscribed burns have been stopped by environmental organizations apparently
dusky raft
yes
faint radish
there isn't ONE reason for fires in CA, there's hardly ever 1 reason for anything on a scale this big
opaque prairie
2020 looking to rank in the top 5 hottest years isnt help the situation too so, theres another factor
dusky raft
there is also infrastructure issues that are causing these fires
considering some of the infra from PG&E is nearly 50+ years old
that went bankrupt due to fines and unsustainable policies...
opaque prairie
whew the whole utility issue is an entire other conversation
faint radish
yeah, PG&E was pretty incompetent... and the fact they say itll take 10 years to get all the infrastrucutre back up to date really shows how widespread it was
dusky raft
the issue is also from the state mandating green energy investment, which also took its toll
and the heavy handed fines the state imposed
and high taxes
faint radish
well that more has to do with the rolling blackouts, rather than the fires right?
opaque prairie
and the facts that politicians in the US havent held utilites accountable for upkeep
dusky raft
no, PG&E equipment is known to cause some of the really bad fires
@opaque prairie they are...
faint radish
oh i see what you mean
dusky raft
california has a board for it
faint radish
yeah, money invested in other energy sources, takes away from maintenance
dusky raft
and it shows how incompetant they are
faint radish
the Public Utilities Commision
opaque prairie
until i see executives in prison theyre not being held accountable in my opinion
dusky raft
what for? money they dont have to put back into infrastructure as they were told to invest in solar/wind?
opaque prairie
funneling money away from maintence, upkeep and improvements into the profits margin? i mean its not like these companies didnt have the money for this stuff
dusky raft
but they are bankrupt. ie, the opposite of profiting
opaque prairie
yeah, because when put as much of your revenue into profits as possible vs spending whatever % of revenue on upkeep you need to for 20 years, and then are fined into the ground & expected to spend that money for upkeep, you dont have it, when they should have been doing it all along
brisk cradle
I read something about the CA wildfires and why they're so bad. The answer has nothing to do with taxes and has everything to do with bad fire policy creating a huge backlog of fuel just waiting for the right moment to catch fire.
Though Cal Fire is probably going to wind up spending north of $1 billion.
dusky raft
at the moment, PG&E is just fucked by state fines and investors bailing
brisk cradle
In the Southeast, one of the few things we get right is fire policy. We let the small, woodland fires burn and do plenty of prescribed burns, so you don't get huge wildfires, though climate change will probably make things worse.
valid steeple
wait what do taxes and wildfires have to do with eacher
brisk cradle
Climate change will also turbocharge California's wildfires
valid steeple
is the money that's not being taxed just being dumped into the forest ready to catch fire or something
is that the argument 
dusky raft
oh, climate change is charging up the wildfires, but california isnt doing its part to manage it
mainly since environmentalists will go so far as to tie themselves to a tree or prevent cleanup
so far, I dont see precautionary measures, just active
brisk cradle
I read that the process for controlled burns in California is onerous, since it has to comply with environmental regulations... which is dumb, given that not doing them means you get bad air from barely-controlled wildfires.
dusky raft
if environmentalists do care about their environment, they should sacrifice a part of the forest rather than see it all burn down
brisk cradle
Part of the problem is that, part of the problem is the terrible air quality in the Central Valley (so they can't do those controlled fires in the Sierra Nevada), and part of the problem is bureaucracy in general.
But it all leads up to an overabundance of fuel ready to ignite.
dusky raft
yeah
though when it comes to environmentalism, I havent seen them protest solar/wind, though yet again, if you dont see a 3-5 mile wide hole in the ground, its not their issue.
brisk cradle
The solution is pretty simple: Accept that fire is a natural part of the ecosystem and use it as a tool, instead of being reactive and overzealous with extinguishing fires.
opaque prairie
why would environmentalists protest solar/wind? or am i misreading that
brisk cradle
The problem is not high taxes and not environmentalists. The problem is us managing the forests badly!
dusky raft
due in part of eco policies
@opaque prairie im talking about the huge strip mine pits
brisk cradle
why would environmentalists protest solar/wind
for the same reason Trump is a champion of the environment: it's a conservative fantasy for the most part
there are valid environmental concerns, sure
we'll soon have a glut of old solar panels
opaque prairie
i think im missing something but that is okay. dont worry about it, i'll read further up
and batteries
brisk cradle
and those are difficult and expensive to recycle
dusky raft
yeah, solar panels dont have a good recycle rate nevermind the rare earth metals in them
brisk cradle
some solar approaches and wind can harm birds (but it's not as bad as Trump makes it out to be)
dusky raft
and the mines that get the material will take a stupidly long time for the environment to reach some form of natural state, if life loves high concentrations of copper/lithium/mercury
its not that I want to use coal will it dries up, but I want to show concern that people arent seeing
brisk cradle
the thing is, the cost of burning more fossil fuels is higher imo than the cost of solar panel recycling and windmills...
dusky raft
people dont see mines in south africa/america compared to forests burning in california
brisk cradle
therein lies the problem
nuclear is technically non-renewable, but it's very much zero-carbon
faint radish
and its waste is literally contained
dusky raft
the problem is the fear of nuclear
brisk cradle
coal ash is also radioactive, did you know that
faint radish
nope, I didn't
dusky raft
people fear it because of what happened years ago
faint radish
yeah... isn't france like 70% nuclear? no accidents there
dusky raft
though I blame the USSR's reactor design than nuclear itself
brisk cradle
plus you got a LOT of energy with nuclear
dusky raft
the design was cheap for the USSR, and doesnt have all the safety features western reactors have
faint radish
and when, hopefully, fusion becomes a reality, that should fix energy issues for a good while, but who knows when that will be
brisk cradle
I think we need to support nuclear in the interim until we find a viable zero-carbon energy source that is safe
dusky raft
brisk cradle
another thing we can do is improve the link between the US east and west grids
faint radish
weren't the tips of the control rods graphite, so when they pushed the scram button, the reaction increased instead of decreased?
trying to remember what I can from that HBO miniseries
dusky raft
Id love to actually see some form of geothermal design get used
brisk cradle
the problem is that it's politically unpalatable to Republicans, as that means relatively clean (albeit ecologically-harmful) hydropower from the Pacific Northwest and solar from California makes their way east, killing the profits of coal and gas plants on the East Coast and the Midwest
opaque prairie
mmmm i stepped away from this for a moment, but i am firmly pro nuclear,
brisk cradle
improving that link will also make the grid more reliable
dusky raft
I do want to see more nuclear power, but again, fears of nucelar power is what is preventing it from expanding
opaque prairie
fear and the fact that nuclear reactors are long term projects, and usually have large delays and cost overshoots
dusky raft
I do think we need to reduce coal/gas usage. Mainly since its a limited resource and can be used for other things than just energy
brisk cradle
in the Southeast, the Southern Company (big power generator and distributor) is building both a "clean coal" plant in Mississippi and a new nuclear plant on the Georgia coast
guess what, both have cost overruns
which is why the GOP strategy of propping up coal and nuclear is stupid
guess what? in the end, that "clean coal" plant now burns natural gas
opaque prairie
Is this a new new plant or that quad unit that’s been being built for like 20 years
brisk cradle
It's been under construction for over 10 years now
opaque prairie
Ah yeah that one, I don’t exactly remember it but I wrote a paper on nuclear power last year. Used it as an example lmao
brisk cradle
oh, it's new units at an existing plant for the nuclear plants on the GA coast