general

[static badge]

that seems like a meme tbh

[peak dirge]

And Trump endorses North Korea.

[proud spindle]

Does he?

[static badge]

didn't he mega bm kim boi

[peak dirge]

Google it ™️

[proud spindle]

Is that why he slaps them with tarrifs?

[ember crag]

He's just salty that Kim played him like his father and grandfather played previous presidents.

[proud spindle]

Sorry I live debating, even when I don't know what I'm talking about

I'm too Canadian to know what is politics look lie

[unreal quarry]

while all you politicals sit around bickering with each other, I'm just sitting back enjoying my improved quality of life since trump

[proud spindle]

Like*

[peak dirge]

Here's the thing: Trump is all establishment swamp stink now, Sanders isn't

[proud spindle]

Untrue

[limber knot]

Sanders isn't

[proud lance]

What's improved Billy?

Jw

[ember crag]

Give it time. If elected, Sanders will fall in line just like every other president has (with a few exceptions)

[proud spindle]

Trump is baked into the cake. If he doesn't win 2020 then someone must have shot him

[peak dirge]

We'll see if Sanders falls in line, and if he does I sure as hell ain't supporting him

[ember crag]

I will say that my life has improved in the last 4 years.

[proud spindle]

This whole sham impeachment is sickening, even to a person who could care less

[unreal quarry]

everything, dowd. my pay has nearly doubled. i'm no longer on government assistance programs like food stamps. i can afford nice toys (motorcycles, etc).

[static badge]

toys

[peak dirge]

Congratulations for improving your circumstances. Now go ask the other people whose livelihoods are getting destroyed by Trump and see what they have to say.

[ember crag]

But whether that is due to a shift in commerce started before Trump took office or directly because of his actions, I couldn't tell you.

[proud spindle]

Who was destroyed by trump

[peak dirge]

I'll give you a hint: they're not riding motorcycles.

[limber knot]

another person off of food stamps o no the horror!! o wait. Isn't that what we want, less reliance on government programs?

[proud spindle]

Wild claims no basis

[proud lance]

What did Trump do to double your pay?

[proud spindle]

I love how agro everyone is getting

[unreal quarry]

before trump i was literally in the poverty bracket. i'm finally out of there and closing in on middle class status

\o/

[proud spindle]

Let's all pick sides and Duke it out

Yar

[ember crag]

I got dibs on Switzerland.

[proud spindle]

[limber knot]

less taxes on business means more money for employees

[static badge]

I've heard sweden was god tier in the past so I'm on sweden

[proud spindle]

And more business growth because more available capital

[static badge]

ah yes

here we go

the left vs the right

[peak dirge]

less taxes on business means more money for employees
Nope, just means share buybacks and extracting parasitic rent

[proud spindle]

Yeah I know

Isn't it fun

[static badge]

or as I like to call it

the wrong vs the right

[proud spindle]

Tux and Billy are team leaders

[static badge]

[peak dirge]

I've read that an absurdly low amount of the Trump tax cuts actually went into the pockets of employees.

[proud spindle]

Everyone choose a side

:D

[peak dirge]

In fact, the biggest winners were foreigners. Not very America First.

[proud spindle]

I find this sort of thing very entertaining

[limber knot]

well if you hear from your typical mainstream media I wouldn't doubt that's what you hear

[proud spindle]

Yeah the media is all lies!

[unreal quarry]

i'm no leader. especially in politics. i'm just a guy with a beard stating my experience ^_^

[proud spindle]

Woo this is fun

[static badge]

didn't you shave your beard

or was that your head

[unreal quarry]

thought about it

[proud spindle]

Ima make fun of all of you as you go

[peak dirge]

And I'm not a leader, but a depressed college student.

[static badge]

oh right u thought about it

[proud lance]

In terms of Sanders though, it's unlikely he's going to get anything done anyway. He's consistent on his promises, but promising people free education and healthcare isn't going to happen. Not sure why people think it will. He should be going for affordable, not free.

[proud spindle]

^

But his plans are super vague

[ember crag]

Though I'll have to admit. I do have long term concerns with my workplace and this nation's increasingly adversarial stance towards foreign trade. I work in a facility designated as a foreign trade area, for a US subsidiary of a Japanese company. If the tariffs keep increasing, they may close our facilities to save money.

[limber knot]

ya, and where's that money gonna come from

[proud spindle]

If he tried to explain how they would with no one would believe he could do it

[peak dirge]

"Affordable" health care

[proud lance]

They are, and he's deluded to think that he can promise that to the American people during 1 four year term

[proud spindle]

Yeah get em tux

[peak dirge]

looks at the number of countries with functioning single-payer health care systems free at the point of use

[proud spindle]

Tell em your random statements not grounded in statistics

[limber knot]

yea and they workin out pretty well eh?

[proud spindle]

Also I live in Canada

Health Care is free

[peak dirge]

It's past 2:30AM, I don't really want to look up shit

[proud spindle]

laughs in Canadian

[unreal quarry]

Fuck affordable healthcare. Before Obama my insurance was $17/week and covered the whole family. After Obama's affordable healthcare it's now $1400/mo for something that vaguely resembles a savings account, not healthcare...

[proud spindle]

Very cheap

[proud lance]

Feel free to list the countries, it doesn't change the fact that this is how our country operates, changing something that massive is not going to happen in 4 years.

[proud spindle]

Oh I love this

I don't have to pick a side so I can just bash everyone at once

[proud lance]

Obama healthcare was shit

[proud spindle]

This is great fun

[peak dirge]

I know that he is unlikely to get his plans through an uncooperative Congress and courts

[proud lance]

^^

[proud spindle]

Well, something to be said for doing nothing

I do that all the time it's great

[peak dirge]

But that's just more reason to clean house, not just reserve ourselves to more inertia

[unreal quarry]

Once Obama made insurance affordable, I could no longer afford it. Ended up being cheaper to just pay the yearly fines for not having it. I'm so glad Trump got rid of the fines :3

[proud lance]

Same

[proud spindle]

I was going to watch endgame

[ember crag]

And that is the big thing. The US government is designed by definition to impede major change. The executive is not selected by the majority party, and is often opposed by at least one part of the legislature.

[proud spindle]

This is way more entertaining

[proud lance]

Ridiculous concept to fine people for not having insurance.

[proud spindle]

New guy is going to have an interesting first impression of this place

[ember crag]

Right? Lol

[proud spindle]

:D

Hell live

Did you all stop fighting?

[ember crag]

Shame. I didn't have time to make the popcorn.

[unreal quarry]

heres insurance in a nutshell, for you youngins. pre-obama insurance everything costed $20. it was ~$20/week for the plan. $20 to do to the doctor. $20 for prescriptions. etc etc. ($50 for emergency room visit). post obama its over $1000/month for the plan. everything is out of pocket until you hit $2000-5000 for the year, then insurance will pick up and cover like %60 of the costs so you're still paying %40 out of pocket for everything. presciptions are covered by the "savings account" thats masked as a healthcare card that you have to put money into it every paycheck for it to grow.

stupid af

[peak dirge]

Your popcorn got made, but it's in the great bit-bucket in the sky.

[proud spindle]

There it goes again

Sit back and watch the fireworks

[ember crag]

I dunno...my workplace provided coverage is pretty good and not that expensive. About $28/week, $20 copay for most doctor visits, $10 generic prescriptions, $50/month cap on insulin costs if I ever get diabetes, $100 copay for emergency room which I can get 15% off if I pay during the visit.

And they cover 90% after I've met my $2500 deductible.

But I'd guess I'm in the minority with my coverage.

[unreal quarry]

see, thats insurance. not what i'm being offered :/

i'm being offered a saving account that costs over $1000/mo to have lol

[proud spindle]

I'm learning a great deal about American health Care

[ember crag]

That's crazy. You're better off throwing 10% into a high yield savings account and making that your medical fund.

[unreal quarry]

i wish i still had the papers my job sent home. i throw them away, tho, because its just disgusting to look at

[ember crag]

I mean, damn. $1000/mo is my house payment on a $100k house.

[proud spindle]

Tux is winding up for a big hit

[unreal quarry]

its actually $1400/mo, i'm just rounding for a nice figure

[proud spindle]

Look at him typing away

[static badge]

paragraph response

[ember crag]

Fwiw, my house payment went up to $1030 this year. Need to renegotiate insurance if I can ever be bothered to.

Was $989, and that extra $11 a month was going to pay me off 2 years early. lol

[proud spindle]

If it slows down I will just call Bernie a communist again and off they will go

[ember crag]

LOL he's still typing...oh wait.

There he goes.

[proud spindle]

Big hit incoming

The anticipation is killing me

Oh the suspense

[limber knot]

more or less, from what it seems the left is "we need to fix society via fixing up society's failings" vs. right is "we need to fix society via fixing our failings" https://youtu.be/GPVDfhXQfw8

(RoboMWM) How Do We Make Society Better? Left vs. Right #5 - length 5m 54s - 23,223 likes, 3,929 dislikes (85.5%) - 1,390,974 views - PragerU on 2015.12.14

[ember crag]

Someone ding me when he's done. I'm going to /r/justrolledintotheshop

[proud spindle]

Ok

[peak dirge]

PragerU is nonsense, basically. Still preparing my big hit.

[proud spindle]

On it chief

Look at him go

It's gonna be an essay

[limber knot]

clicking the dismiss button

[static badge]

more like big flop

[proud spindle]

Be sure to include works cited!

[vestal jasper]

hey leaf I published my first plugin btw

[proud spindle]

Teachers like that

[static badge]

link or you're lying

[limber knot]

gotta say, whatever it is, it's a lot just to invalidate billy's experience

[proud spindle]

This is probably the funniest conversation I have ever have purposely created

And it all started with a cat pissing on a suit

[limber knot]

I just saw Catholic and I was like oooh I wanna jump in

[ember crag]

Did he at least kick the little fucker?

[unreal quarry]

glad we can amuse you with our hardships, budda

[proud spindle]

He threw it out the window

[peak dirge]

N'all, doing my research before I actually deliver my hit 😉

[proud spindle]

Sorry Billy, I didn't mean to exploit you for entertainment.

[static badge]

he's gonna link fox news as a source

[proud spindle]

I regret my life choices now

Cos now I started a fight and polarized everyone in the discord

[limber knot]

nah

dumcord's always been this way

as I said b4, dumcord is a mistake

[proud spindle]

Maybe we should all chill now?

[limber knot]

there is no chill

only ideas vs reality

[proud spindle]

streams endgame in vc to distract people

[limber knot]

vc

palindrome day tomorrow/today

[proud spindle]

Thing is tux and Billy are gonna stay at this forever

[limber knot]

Insurance premiums and copays going up in the vast majority of cases has nothing to do with the ACA

[unreal quarry]

dont you dare blame inflation

lol

[limber knot]

o man, another enters the fite

[proud spindle]

Both of them are sure they are right and can invalidate the other

[limber knot]

In some cases people lost access to their really really crap plans so their premiums went up but their copays probably went down

[peak dirge]

We can blame the Republican Party for ACA sabotage. But the ACA is garbage.

[limber knot]

But overall at least until 2016 the result of the ACA was that costs were still increasing but doing so at a slower rate than before

[proud spindle]

Ok guys, sorry for instigating this, ima head out

[limber knot]

Some things got screwed up in 2017 but I'm sure wrecked the plans in some states

s/but/that/

Correction, <Amaranth> Some things got screwed up in 2017 that I'm sure wrecked the plans in some states

[peak dirge]

Republicans are pro-death unless it's a fetus, in which case they suddenly become pro-life. (Abortion is a strange thing, and a topic for a later time.)

[limber knot]

lol

[static badge]

let's switch to abortion boys

[proud spindle]

That was a shot at the nuts

[limber knot]

pro death unless it's a human

hmmmmmmmm

ACA was an attempt to fix things without taking over the market but it did it from the wrong side

[proud spindle]

The Republicans kill people?

[peak dirge]

Is a fetus human? We'll let the philosophers work that one out.

[proud spindle]

Pro death!

What is that even supposed to mean

[limber knot]

ya they kill ppl cuz they dont wanna hand out taxpayer money to "the poor"

[peak dirge]

I don't deny there's a lot of pro-death Democrats too.

[limber knot]

Basically every other country has price controls on medicine and some on medical procedures too

[proud spindle]

Ooh nazis

[limber knot]

while it's a-ok to hand over money to PP

[proud spindle]

Time for nazis bois

Nazi nazi nazi

[peak dirge]

Hey, look, being pro-death is a bipartisan position now.

[proud spindle]

Down with pro death

Killing people is baf

Bad

[limber knot]

ACA makes it so the only way an insurance company can make more money is if medical costs go up (they can only take a percentage off the top) so it does incentivize getting them to work to raise prices but there were controls in place to try to block that too by requiring government approval for premium increases for plans on the exchanges

But those basically get rubberstamped after attempts to fight against them for the first couple years

So it's definitely not great but it's not really the problem either

[peak dirge]

So let's do the consistent life ethic. We might agree to limit abortion to a degree, agree never to go to war, abolish the death penalty, give aid to the poor, healthcare free at the point of use, and enact actual pro-family policies like maternity leave and baby bonds instead of homophobic garbage.

[limber knot]

consistent life ethic, how is that defined

ACA is basically proof that trying to regulate the medical industry but leave it private doesn't work

[peak dirge]

But if I define that, I won't be able to do my hit...

[limber knot]

e.g. agreeing to never go to war isn't consistent if the other side is doing the killing

also idk why abortion (i.e. baby murder) would just be limited to a degree

[peak dirge]

Murdering babies is already illegal.

[limber knot]

not if they in the womb

and if anything there's stuff out there for making it legal to kill those after a failed abortion

[peak dirge]

So a clump of cells that might, in theory, become a human, is more entitled to more protection than the body it is growing in?

[limber knot]

woah there

clump of cells

It's a bodily autonomy thing which is why PP v Casey (the actual relevant cast on this, not Roe v Wade) makes the cutoff viability

[static badge]

what about saplings boys

those could grow into trees

that have leaves

[peak dirge]

What if it will never have a viable life?

[limber knot]

is that what we do with the disabled?

or the poor?

[static badge]

[limber knot]

"hey yea you're better of dead"

[peak dirge]

I see you've taken the most extreme definition of "viable life" you could find. I'm offended as a disabled person.

[static badge]

oh shit boys

[limber knot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2PAajlHbnU is a good, if lengthy, explanation of the bodily autonomy argument

well, why would you suggest murder for a baby that may have a possibility of not having a "viable life?"

(Amaranth) Abortion & Ben Shapiro | Philosophy Tube - length 38m 27s - 60,526 likes, 3,924 dislikes (93.9%) - 822,064 views - Philosophy Tube on 2019.06.24

[peak dirge]

I take a much more liberal definition. I would consider someone who has Down syndrome or similar to have a "viable life".

[limber knot]

just cuz a baby's dependent on the mother doesn't mean it aint a human

babies are already dependent on someone to take care of them when born too

[peak dirge]

https://spot.colorado.edu/~heathwoo/Phil160,Fall02/thomson.htm

[limber knot]

we planned to but never got to this when I took ethics

And after they're born the mother can get rid of them, it's somebody else's problem

[peak dirge]

I've read this. It's a very good argument. It even assumes that a fetus is entitled to life.

[limber knot]

But she still had to go through the trauma of bringing them to term and giving birth, against her will

the trauma of murder is better?

cutting up the baby and sucking it out?

or giving birth to a dead baby?

[unreal quarry]

we're talking about abortions now?

[limber knot]

Tux that is literally what that video is too :D

I guess that's where he got the scenario from

[peak dirge]

No, I've read this text in an ethics class.

[limber knot]

It's "Ben Shapiro" waking up attached to a famous violinist

[unreal quarry]

well, since we're here might as well go with it. i've paid for 2 abortions. i am pro-choice. what. ^_^

[peak dirge]

BEN SHAPIR

Sadly, very highly influential

[limber knot]

I mean that's where Ollie got the scenario from, not saying the video came first

Anyway, Medicare for All, Feel the Bern, etc etc

[unreal quarry]

I was also with a girl that lived by "plan b"

[limber knot]

Sure enough https://eclass.uoa.gr/modules/document/file.php/PPP475/Thomson Judith Jarvis%2C A defense of abortion.pdf is the first thing cited

[unreal quarry]

Idk if that counts tho

[limber knot]

If Plan B is abortion so is birth control

I mean, the pills for it. IUDs and condoms are different things

[unreal quarry]

Plan b is for after conception, tho. Iirc

Idk

[limber knot]

Yeah but it basically works the same way, afaik

They don't prevent insemination, they prevent implantation

[unreal quarry]

Idk, the two abortions I paid for the girl said all they made her take was a pill. No vacuum or anything weird like you hear of in movies

[static badge]

depends on the stage

[limber knot]

That's basically undoing implantation after it happened and it's early enough you'd just notice it as a heavier period

[limber knot]

Later on they have to make sure they remove it so you don't get sepsis or whatever

[peak dirge]

My response is too long for a Discord message

[static badge]

2k limit

split it up and then rapid paste

I'm sure the moderators are gonna love that

[peak dirge]

One gist link to make it tidy: https://gist.github.com/astei/3365a2219ca6f45aa6c323528a0ac2cc

This is for Billy

Also made it Markdown format so it's not literally going to cause you cancer when you try to read it (and then you're forced to pay the $6,000 Eyeball Cancer charge buried in your insurance contract on page 672)

[unreal quarry]

None of that even relates to anything I said ^_^

[peak dirge]

I agree. North of $1,000/mo that looks like the world's worst savings account is ridiculous. But that sounds like a good reason to go single-payer. Then you just get to pay one price and nothing more.
This is very much a response to something you said.

https://discordapp.com/channels/289587909051416579/555469074080202765/673433388673269760

[unreal quarry]

hmm. let me rephrase the situation:

Before obama: I pay $80/mo for insurance that covers me, my wife, and my kids. If anyone gets sick with the flu, for example, I pay $20 for a doctor visit and $20 for presciption medicine to make them better. Easy peasy.

After obama: I pay $1400/mo for insurance that covers me, my wife, and my kids. If someone gets sick with the flu, for example, I pay $300 for the doctor visit (full cost out of pocket) and I pay $80 for the medicine (full cost out of pocket) to make them better. Why the hell did I even pay for insurance? :S

After obama with the healthcare card (aka, expensive af savings account): I pay $1400/mo for insurance that covers me, my wife, and my kids. Plus an extra $400/mo to put into a healthcare card. If someone gets sick with the flu, for example, I pay $0 for the doctor visit (as long as I had the $300 in the healthcare card) and I pay $0 for the medicine (as long as I had the $80 in the healthcare card) to make them better. Why the hell did I even pay for insurance? All the medical stuff was paid in full with my money. :S

[cosmic raft]

the US healthcare system is fucking stupid

[olive garden]

that's why we, the previously USSR states are lucky - we have free healthcare by tradition

[peak dirge]

@unreal quarry I found the "savings account" comparison to be quite apt. Indeed, that insurance plan is awful since you could take the money you'd pay for the plan, invest it into index funds, draw down the fund to pay for the no-insurance tax, and eventually get to the point where you can be self-insured and don't have to worry about it any more.

Alas, very few people do FIRE, which is precisely what you'd have to do in order to do this!

[unreal quarry]

oh, i forgot about the saving account part. let me go back and edit

[limber knot]

Those numbers sound like your employer used the ACA as an excuse to kick you out to the exchanges, the exchanges are doing particularly bad in your state, and you make too much to qualify for any subsidy to help with premiums

[peak dirge]

And it's not too preposterous - a lot of health insurance plans are literally health insurance glued to a savings account (they're called high-deductible insurance plans and the savings account (actually an investment account) they're attached to is called an HSA). Unsuprisingly, this is a benefit that helps wealthy people more than it helps people like me.

[unreal quarry]

there, edited

^_^

[limber knot]

stop summoning me

[unreal quarry]

not even the same characters

[limber knot]

wow racism much_

[peak dirge]

Oh, yay, I need to go do my taxes this year

[limber knot]

Like, basically all the worst things that could go wrong did for you, is the only thing I can figure

[unreal quarry]

best part. none of the money on that healthcare card rolls over to the next year. use it or lose it

[limber knot]

Most people still get insurance subsidized via their employer and those that don't are usually poor enough to either just get Medicaid or to get a large subsidy for their plan through the exchanges

That's not an HSA then, that's an FSA

Those are garbage

ah yes, the american healthcare system, one of the funniest jokes of our time

[unreal quarry]

i couldnt tell you. i stopped paying attention to the whole things a long time ago. i never learned the new lingo because I cant get past the cost lol

[limber knot]

Did you go from coverage through work to being on the exchanges?

amazing how one of the richest countries on earth can't figure out universal healthcare

[unreal quarry]

right now my wife and I arent covered by any insurance. but I still fall into the bracket where my kids qualify for government assistance. some program called CHIPS

so at least they are covered

[limber knot]

CHIP, Medicaid for kids

[unreal quarry]

yeah, its like $80/year to cover them all

[limber knot]

13% of all kids in the US are on CHIP

[peak dirge]

Wow, talk about hoops. Well, turns out (again) I don't make enough to pay taxes on income.

Still a lot of questions to answer before the IRS site spat out "you make just over half the standard deduction, no need to file taxes"

So in that respect, I am kinda thankful for the GOP tax cut as it doubled the standard deduction and made it a more viable option. It's probably the only good thing I'll give it credit for.

Otherwise, I would've had to pay taxes (albeit a very small amount)

[unreal quarry]

i get money back every year

a lot back, actually

lol

[peak dirge]

Well, most of my income is veterans educational benefits, which are not taxed to begin with, so the rest is from my job and investments I've made

[unreal quarry]

yeah, that'll do it

i make little over $40k/yr with a wife and 3 kids. i get $10k back every year on taxes because of EITC and CTC

i have 5 kids, but only claim 3 (2 live with other parents who claim them)

[peak dirge]

Actually... yeah, I'm not required to file taxes.

[limber knot]

warcraft 3 reforged's metacritic user score is all the way down to 0.5

[static badge]

what's the max

[limber knot]

100.00

it's sub-1%

[static badge]

wtf

absolutely rolled

[cosmic raft]

https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/warcraft-iii-reforged

[limber knot]

actually I may have lied, metascore goes up to 100 but user score goes up to 10?

I don't really use this website

it has 268 positive reviews and 7351 negative reviews lol

[unreal quarry]

*7357

[static badge]

ah yes typical weeaboos

getting it wrong

just like your art

[heady spear]

I like these

[limber knot]

actually 650 to 15489 what?

[static badge]

[limber knot]

what's up with the numbers

metacritic is showing different numbers based on the page

[void void]

What's a good way to have access to the server console (see logs/exec. commands) when running a server on a VPS with screen?

[golden gust]

just use screen?

[celest coyote]

Yeah just attach to the screen

[twin lagoon]

screen -x <sessionname>

[heady spear]

then switch to tmux

[twin lagoon]

that too

[limber knot]

you guys want to see a magic trick

can you disappear?

yes please

think of a random number

alright

write it here

7

is 7 the number you thought of?

[twin lagoon]

holy fuck

how did you know

are you a magician

[limber knot]

I'M INSIDE YOUR MIND

oh my god

[twin lagoon]

wtffff

[limber knot]

how did you

I've backdoored your brain you fucking moron

[twin lagoon]

rootkit???/

[limber knot]

never share what's on your mind

[static badge]

ur on my mind

[limber knot]

that's why I've backdoored your brain and soon I'll backdoor the rest of you

alright this is getting weirdly sexual

[static badge]

[limber knot]

don't think I don't see you pulling your pants down

that's for premium users only

[twin lagoon]

papermc premium snapchat

[limber knot]

the only place I post beard pics without the hijab

snapchat

stop kicking me for banning you from the premium snapchat kashike

i don't even /have/ snapchat

I don't think that's a bad thing

if you didn't want to get banned you just had to stop acting like a creepp

kekw

mod aboose

lol

mfw moderators

and yes kash ur a moderator

u don't even do any dev stuff for paper :>

that's supreme overlord to you

no u

stop bullying kashike

I heard he's been suicidal ever since the snapchat ban

jfc

magmafucker nobody would pay to look at ur face

in fact u would have to pay people

I'd pay to watch a steamroller run it over

a very large sum

to

even

d

o

i

t

tell that to the beardlets

[merry talon]

doit

[limber knot]

ah I remember the good ol days of irc

[merry talon]

learn to send newlines

[limber knot]

n

i

e

r

[merry talon]

n

[limber knot]

Streamfrost: I'd merge your PRs

but they all need rebasing

so get off your lazy ass

wrong

they don't

not wrong

patch numbers matter too :D

let's fight

[shell vine]

[limber knot]

oh that's the bitch way out kek

before I head out for breakfast let's tell a story, one word at a time

I'll start

^-^

fucked

a

pogu billy's pr

also I remember when godzilla was around

notified the little irc channel that an issue/pr was created

I remember when Streamfrost wasn't around.

ah better times

ur a bot

u can't remember shit

ding dong you are wrong

sure

alright let's play a game

I remember when I was just hanging around the universe before I create humanity using my beard

well? what game

[vestal jasper]

^-^

[limber knot]

I'm thinking of it bot boi

you should end your quarrel in a game of tic tac toe

hold ur robot titties on

[latent valve]

[limber knot]

lol irc tic tac toe

top left

middle

bottom right

middle right

middle left

you fuckers are retarded

bottom left

fuck

fuck

ingenious 😂

top right guess no one wins then

I can live with that, for we have fought out a quarrel

what was I saying approximately 4 years ago in this channel bot boi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CKjNcSUNt8

(Zoidberg) You Wanna Play A Little Game?! - length 35s - 40,807 likes, 339 dislikes (99.2%) - 2,361,605 views - TheComplainer on 2007.02.25

the first thing I said actually

tell me

"hey can I ask for essentials support in here?"

[twin lagoon]

yang gang

[limber knot]

alternatively "how is babby formed?"

^-^: https://i.imgur.com/9v3MJwf.png

how does girl get pergonante?

[rancid timber]

Hello, guys, we are planning to diy a computer because we have noticeable TPS loss when there's 25~35 players out there.(We had done so much optimization(but we forgot to pre-gen chunks 😦 ), and we just don't know what can we do for better performance.)
(Timings: https://timings.aikar.co/?id=a24c05c54d014ae1946213565279a9c2)
We are currently using 6 core Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2678 v3 @ 2.50GHz
Is it ideal for us that we use AMD Ryzen 5 3600 in our new server? This CPU has good single core performance score, but I'm afraid how many more player can we handle by changing the server since there's one post on spigot forum said this CPU didn't give him desired performance?
https://www.spigotmc.org/threads/amd-ryzen-5-3600-is-a-bad-cpu-for-spigot.406029/

Maybe before changing the server, we could do something more?
Thanks

[twin lagoon]

3600 is fine

that guy doesn't know shit

[limber knot]

why are we still here? just to suffer?

[rancid timber]

But can we expect 2 or 3 times of the player count after changing the server?

or I expect too much

[twin lagoon]

i'm fairly sure your problem is the entities

[rancid timber]

yes

but, i really don't know what should i adjust

after turn on the per-player-mob-spawn

the entity is overwhelming many

but if i turn it off, Mob Farms just stop working

[limber knot]

ah yes, the bot has failed the game

so it truly cannot remember

[rancid timber]

also

mob is not so much out there

execute if entity @e[type=...zombie]

all Mosters out there is somthing near 90

(zombie:90, creeper:85, spider:90...)

like this

when there's 30 players

maybe this is rational monster count?

[celest coyote]

No it's too high

Its recommended you reduce entity counts when you turn on that option

[rancid timber]

so i should set spawn-limit of monsters to 5, animals to 1

like this?

[celest coyote]

Wait what are they right now

[rancid timber]

monster: 10, animals:5

[celest coyote]

I think I mis understood

That's extremely low...

[rancid timber]

yes.... i just don't know what should i do

[celest coyote]

If you are still having issues you got a really weak cpu...

What are the entity counts with and without the option

[rancid timber]

i haven't try w/o the option

i just notice really soon that mob farms doesn't work

[celest coyote]

Yeah that's a well documented issue, thats why thwt option was made

[rancid timber]

also, this command
execute if entity @e[] counts all entities include item-frame

[celest coyote]

For entity counts use the paper command

/paper entity list

[rancid timber]

i restrict one player can have each animal at most 10
maybe that's too many

?

[celest coyote]

What's your cpu?

[rancid timber]

6 core Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2678 v3 @ 2.50GHz

[celest coyote]

Ouch

That's terrible

[rancid timber]

1700 single core score that terrible?

i don't have a image on the score

[latent valve]

Terrible cpu 😂

[rancid timber]

so,.. Is my entity count really bad?

[celest coyote]

No your entity counts are fine

Your cpu is just terrible

[rancid timber]

Oh, thanks, i really need this type of information

so can i expect 100 player count on AMD Ryzen 5 3600?

[celest coyote]

No

Dont place your expectations too hugh

[latent valve]

On 1.12 yes i think haha but not on 115

[rancid timber]

Why? What makes 1.15 so bad at performance?

[latent valve]

Mojang 😳

[rancid timber]

Also, how many should i expect?

What had mojang done D:

[latent valve]

Also, how many should i expect?
Prob depend on optimization ¯_(ツ)_/¯ doesnt have that cpu so idk

[rancid timber]

😦

[median sparrow]

Using the same setting like monster: 10, animals:5, can we serve 50+ players in a same world with Ryzen 5 3600?

[unreal quarry]

i feel better now. we're back to 69 PRs

[orchid pelican]

Is there like a good read of what actually happens to bukkit back in the day. I find all the things I find conflicting on what actually happend

[unreal quarry]

Basically the team wanted out. Wolv decided to pull a "it's my ball and I don't want to play anymore" and dmca'd the project.

Gave them their out

[orchid pelican]

I reas that mojang was trying to take control and he issues the DMCA to stop them from doing so

As seen here https://www.reddit.com/r/admincraft/comments/5ir5gg/til_the_issue_of_bukkit_breaking_copyright_was/dbazzyl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

[unreal quarry]

No. Mojang owns bukkit. They wanted out because they felt they were "working for free"

[static badge]

inb4 mojang owns paper

[orchid pelican]

So mojang owns bukkit?

[unreal quarry]

yup

[orchid pelican]

I thought the project was independent and that’s here the legal issues came

[limber knot]

Dont think they can can they

[unreal quarry]

no, the legal issues are because mojang is closed source and craftbukkit is gpl. you cant distribute non gpl with gpl. it violates gpl

[limber knot]

i assume if spigot falls then papers next

[unreal quarry]

thats the only thing the dmca stands on

[orchid pelican]

So does mojang still own bukkit

[limber knot]

yup

[unreal quarry]

spigot is able to continue because of the separation of gpl and non gpl during distribution

[limber knot]

welll Microsoft

how does that work tho billy

[unreal quarry]

buildtools

[orchid pelican]

So mojang owns bukkit but the spigot team maintains a fork of t to support its platforms

[limber knot]

still co,es inder the gpl when its compiled?

[orchid pelican]

Did I get that right?

[unreal quarry]

spigot never gives you mojang's code

buildtools downloads it from mojang servers

same as paperclip

[limber knot]

True but its still distrubted in the jar tho?

[unreal quarry]

no

[orchid pelican]

It parches it on runtime

[unreal quarry]

only patches are in the jar

buildtools downloads vanilla and applies the patches

paperclip does it too, just in binary form so you dont have to compile it yourself

[limber knot]

I mean if they wanted to be dicks about it couldnt they block it

[unreal quarry]

no, they cant

[orchid pelican]

So does spigot maintain a fork of bukkit or how does that work

[unreal quarry]

the dmca only holds ground because of distribution

[limber knot]

or just remove the ability for it to download off their server

[unreal quarry]

you know mojang specifically makes the server free to download for all, yeah?

you dont even have to own the game

[limber knot]

I wouldnt be surprised if they changed it tbh to make more money

[orchid pelican]

This conversation is getting pulled in 2 directions

[unreal quarry]

why would they? bukkit is making them more money

mojang strongly supports bukkit. they own it lol

[orchid pelican]

Do they maintain bukkit?

[unreal quarry]

they planned to, until the dmca

dinnerbone even tweeted out how he had started work on 1.8

[limber knot]

I know that but it hasnt stopped them before stopping support for something and then changing it they are a business

[unreal quarry]

he "would not let the project die"

[limber knot]

they will alwayus try and make as much "money" as they can

[unreal quarry]

wolv answered back with the dmca

[limber knot]

Keeps their stockholders and investors happy.

[orchid pelican]

IRC get out

Anyways

So basically wolv fucked the whole community

[limber knot]

?

Pretty much

[orchid pelican]

I wonder what it would be like if mojando maintained it today

[limber knot]

But I mean its no diffrent to all the premium plugins Im surprised they dont take offense to that

[orchid pelican]

They can’t

[limber knot]

Probally wouldnt be as corprate and have as many offshoots

[orchid pelican]

I don’t think you understand the legal divide here

[limber knot]

How did wolve fuck the community?

He just used the tools he had to make his voice heard

[orchid pelican]

But what was his point

[unreal quarry]

greed

he wanted money

[orchid pelican]

It inhibit mojang from developing bukkit futber

[unreal quarry]

lol

[limber knot]

And the community stepped up, fixed the legal issues (which where known since the very first week of bukkit but nobody cares) and moved on

Nah he just didn't like mojang

[orchid pelican]

Ye but Mojang backed out basically

[limber knot]

He was hired together with bone and grum but left because he couldn't work with mojang

How did mojang back out?

[orchid pelican]

Oh he was hired. Interesting I didn’t know that

[limber knot]

The whole bukkit team was

That's why mojang owns bukkit, lol

[orchid pelican]

Well mojang doesn’t develop bukkit anumote right?

[limber knot]

Mojang never did

[unreal quarry]

no, mojang is hands off

spigot is the current maintainer

[limber knot]

Bone said he would keep the project alive in his own time

If nobody else does it

But thinky came alone and fixed the issues for spigot so it's all good

[orchid pelican]

So they own it but don’t develop on it

[unreal quarry]

you should really google bukkit's history

[orchid pelican]

I tried it’s a mess

[unreal quarry]

mojang never worked on bukkit

[limber knot]

Mojang never developed it

[orchid pelican]

Ok that makes sense

[tender arch]

thats why it worked

[limber knot]

They just got curse to manage operations

[unreal quarry]

dinnerbone started bukkit before he was hired on at mojang

after he was hired, he stopped

[orchid pelican]

Ye I read his post

[limber knot]

I can kind of understand that it being a conflict of intrest

Similar to searge for example, he stopped working on mcp when he was hired

Or that pocket mine dude

Does the multicraft dude still work on multicraft? Does Cory still work on tropical mod?

No clue about the recent additions

[orchid pelican]

Well I think if Mijangos maintained a better api and hired some of the people here to make the server section way better it would be better than the current patch patch bad mojang code

[limber knot]

Meh

Operating independently of mojang sure has many benefits

[orchid pelican]

We are playing a cat and mouse game at this point

[tender arch]

'tis generaly the problem with writing shit for a game, you either get bored and give up after a few years of doing it or you get hired by the game and told to stop doing it.

[orchid pelican]

If we could itnkunce changes it would be better at least

[unreal quarry]

before notch sold out he had planned to eventually make the whole thing open source

[orchid pelican]

That would be awesome

[tender arch]

that would've been nice

[limber knot]

Paper and spigot are open source projects, so management, no goals, nobody to report to. The whole corporate stuff is slowing you down

I mean, if the obfuscation maps get their new licence

Isn't it basically open source?

[orchid pelican]

They just need to make the server open sourced. Well that’s half the game but yah know

[tender arch]

another great example of socialism workign better than capitalism if you ask me, but dont ask me

[limber knot]

I asked Helen (java CM) last week, our request to change the licence is still worked on by legal

[unreal quarry]

i dont think it'll be changed. at least not to something we need

[limber knot]

They sadly take months for stuff like this as they have hundrets of others thinks

I disagree

Mojang wants us to use them

[orchid pelican]

What does CM stand for ?

[unreal quarry]

right, but does MS?

[limber knot]

They just need to convince legal

Community manager

[orchid pelican]

Gotcha

[limber knot]

MS is all for open source too

[orchid pelican]

There’s no down side to them open sourcing at least the server software

Hire a few people to control pull requests and such and call it a good day

Mojang makes a lot of money off of having modded servers

The game would die for at least me without it.

[limber knot]

Basically, Copyright laws are stupid

Especially in the US

We will see, I'll ask Helen again tomorrow when we have a meeting

[orchid pelican]

Well I hope they make the effort at least

[limber knot]

They do, the request is handled by ms legal to fix the licence

[orchid pelican]

So you have meetings with them?

[limber knot]

MiniDigger doesn't :p

Yeah, a select part of the server community (mostly server owners, but also random ppl like me) formed a group, got in touch with them, signed NDAs and we talk for an hour or two every week

[orchid pelican]

Now I’m confused

[limber knot]

I do Kash, lol

[orchid pelican]

Wow ok, cool

[limber knot]

I still don't entirely know why, but ppl accept me

[woven otter]

interesting

[limber knot]

I got leaf to join too

[golden gust]

they're stereotyping you

[static badge]

I've not signed any nda

[golden gust]

"Oh, he's german, he must be good"

[orchid pelican]

Spill the beans leaf

[static badge]

sadly my advice about making the reads for chunk data async was completely ignored

[golden gust]

By that point, it's too late to get rid of you

[limber knot]

But basically, we talk to Helen, not lime, so not actually devs

[static badge]

I did explicitly mention it

[limber knot]

well

welcome half to the club :p

Oh yeah, the meetings are t under NDA, there's a seperate channel for more protected info

Aren't

[static badge]

from what I can infer it's something about anticheat

[twin lagoon]

afaik it's just partnered server shit

[orchid pelican]

So these meetings are private?

[twin lagoon]

no

well sort of

you just need to get invited to the group

that's all

[static badge]

there's private and nda-private

[woven otter]

seperate channel ?

[twin lagoon]

there's an NDA you can sign to get access to some other info / discussions

but you do not need an NDA to get into the weekly voice meetings

[orchid pelican]

Invited us the hard part I guess

[twin lagoon]

can get you invited

[orchid pelican]

That would be amazing

[woven otter]

do something significant I guess

[orchid pelican]

Honestly though I have been with this game for a long time and recently I feel a larger and larger disconnect in areas

[twin lagoon]

there's a performance meeting planned for feb 17

so who knows

• we got 3 more java developers

[static badge]

at me 4 days before that thx

[twin lagoon]

will do if I don't forget it

[olive garden]

wow, according to google, no currency has lost/gained value in February

everything is just constant since the midnight between the 31st and 1st

blame brexit :D

[limber knot]

Do you realize that nothing will change till the end of the year?

Brexit day is actually dec 31.

Cause that's when you leave the economic area

[olive garden]

I ain't leaving anything

and it was a joke

[limber knot]

For now you just gave up your right to vote while still having to follow all rules

[golden gust]

BRITAN, WOOOO

FUQ EU

runs and cries in a corner

[static badge]

BEGONE EU

[cosmic raft]

the EU now has 1 GB of space available

[static badge]

nice joke

[limber knot]

[shell vine]

[limber knot]

Is 1GB enough space to store a Scotland? 🤔

ruuuunnnns

[golden gust]

implying we're gonna let them go

plz

[limber knot]

I don't know anything about your politics

But I for one getting my popcorn ready 😂

[golden gust]

Scotland tried to leave the UK a few years ago, as a "once in a decade" type vote

Seems like they're gonna hold them to that too lol

[limber knot]

Well, new decade 😂

[static badge]

oi m8 want sum tea while we discuss brexit

[limber knot]

Do you need me to discuss brexit?

really?

[static badge]

go ahead tea boi

[unreal quarry]

my ancestors are from scotland :3

fun fact, my last name was "americanized" when they moved here. original scottish spelling is Galbraith

[limber knot]

What is it now

[golden gust]

ThEy KeEp SAyInG oUR nAMe wRoNg

[static badge]

isn't it william

[unreal quarry]

thats my first name

billy is just a nickname that stuck

[limber knot]

No, its billy

dumface is your new nickname

[golden gust]

I mean, you do kinda look more like a billy than a william

[unreal quarry]

my first day at band camp (looks at cat dont.) drum major was like "you go by william or billy?" i said "william" and he's all "ok, billy" and it stuck

[limber knot]

It wasn't a joke?

idk he looks more like a greg to me

[golden gust]

lol

Hey, billy, billy, billy

[limber knot]

I thought he was joking about being named William

[golden gust]

This one time

[limber knot]

gregoravich

[golden gust]

At band camp

I stuck a flute...

[limber knot]

oh boy

[unreal quarry]

smh

[limber knot]

hey cat you know kids these days don't even know what american pie is right

is that pie but with a gun

is it not pie...?

[golden gust]

I mean

[wide chasm]

It's actually pi I think

[golden gust]

Wait

[limber knot]

you've most past your golden years, old man

moved*

[golden gust]

How the fuck have people not seen american pie?

[limber knot]

I thought pie was pie...

Thats hill william to you sir

[unreal quarry]

Like warm apple pie, huh cat?

[static badge]

american pie is a song

[unreal quarry]

runs

[golden gust]

Like, at least over here, it's always on channel 4 every few months

[static badge]

you can't see it

[limber knot]

.g american pie 1 release date

(^-^) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Pie_(film_series) -- American Pie (film series) - Wikipedia: "Release date. 1999–2012. Running time. 788 minutes. Country, United States. Language, English. Budget, $145 million. Box office, $1 billion..."

[static badge]

is it a movie

oh

[golden gust]

mfw

[static badge]

[limber knot]

1 BILLION WTF

I've never heard of it till now

[golden gust]

mfw

[unreal quarry]

It's funny af

[limber knot]

1999 is why cat

[unreal quarry]

Should watch

[limber knot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik1NKkN0ysI

(Vertanzil) American Pie | Jim's Infamous Pie Scene - length 2m 16s - 468 likes, 21 dislikes (95.7%) - 34,425 views - Universal Pictures on 2019.08.11

last movie was in 2009

that's over 10 years ago bud

18 y/os today would've been 8 when it first released

and that was the last one

it's a sex comedy, and I was too young to watch that stuff

I don't watch them now either tho

cat coming in with that old nasty pervert energy

I heard japan loves him

Which part, the old pervy man, or the cat part?

[static badge]

[limber knot]

all of them

ERP ERP ERP

No erperino in the chatterino

owo cat is that a flute in your pocket or are you happy to see me?

[golden gust]

both

😉

[limber knot]

Blow it and see 0_0

[static badge]

alright boys

[limber knot]

it's making music, the music of love

[golden gust]

this is why we can't have nice things

[static badge]

there's this cool feature of discord called dms

go fuck each other in there

you can also create a group dm thing

[golden gust]

awh fuq, lef has dms disabled

[static badge]

friends only

[limber knot]

I guess you could fit a piccolo in your pocket

whose dms are you trying to slide into cat

or at least, fit enough so that it wont fall out

would still end up digging into your side tho

You could play some of the older flutes, they are shaped like potatoes though, so probably wouldn't fit into the pocket

Streamfrost: i'm going to write this code just for you

Unless you mean a hoodie pocket or something...

I have an Iterable

[static badge]

just for me?

[limber knot]

I'm going to convert it to a Stream to collect it to a List

<3

[static badge]

can't be too bad

[limber knot]

Oh, its the year of the linux desktop btw

[unreal quarry]

new ArrayList<>(someList.stream().map(v->v).collect(Collectors.toList())).clone();

[limber knot]

https://i.imgur.com/J9KsMvG.png

0.02% left windows and 0.05% left macos and 0.07% up on Linux for January according to steam

What does Godzilla do?

[static badge]

used to be the notification bot

[limber knot]

ah

[static badge]

now it's reduced to nothing

[limber knot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOYZaiDZ7BM

(Vertanzil) Rednex - Cotton Eye Joe (Official Music Video) [HD] - RednexMusic com - length 3m 15s - 557,585 likes, 23,899 dislikes (95.9%) - 94,423,340 views - Rednex Videos on 2013.08.24

[static badge]

ooo, good music

[unreal quarry]

godzilla was replaced with discord webhooks

😉

[static badge]

tbh prefer the old

[limber knot]

Yuck, webhooks

[static badge]

god what am I gonna be when I'm a boomer

"preferred irc"

[unreal quarry]

youre a webhook, tea

[limber knot]

Streamfrost: I'm Gen Z and I prefer irc

I know some gen alphas that do too

[static badge]

wtf is a gen alpha

[unreal quarry]

gen alpha is a thing now?

gfdi i'm old

[static badge]

.g gen alpha

[limber knot]

(DiscordBot) https://adage.com/article/cmo-strategy/move-gen-z-generation-alpha-watch/316314 -- Move over Gen Z, Generation Alpha is the one to watch | Ad...: "Jan 22, 2019 ... It's part of a larger study about Generation Alpha, the tech-savvy young children of millennials whose rising influence could soon..."

[static badge]

in 2010 huh

[limber knot]

Ye

[unreal quarry]

huh, that makes my youngest kid an alpha

[static badge]

as time goes on I feel alpha is a more and more inappropriate to label people

more like gen gamma

[woven otter]

Gen alpha

[static badge]

gamma also implies cancer

[unreal quarry]

tbh, gen z is cancer

lol

[limber knot]

ur cancer

[static badge]

u can't just take me as an example

[limber knot]

Just remember, my gen & gen alpha are the ones really inheriting the baby boomer money

And the crap laws / national debt

whew, people are fine to talk about brexit but not generational politics

[unreal quarry]

sorry, stuffing my face with cheetos and tostitos cheese dip

[static badge]

[limber knot]

How on earth do you remain healthy

[unreal quarry]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[limber knot]

I use gentoo btw

[olive garden]

he can't afford their healthcare system, so he knows he mustn't get sick - simple as that

[limber knot]

Unless hes making minimum wage, or lives in an area where cost of living is ridiculous, that isn't a real problem

I am assuming billy isnt part of a familly of 4 with one or two incomes

[unreal quarry]

family of 7 with one income

😉

[limber knot]

really?

7?

[unreal quarry]

yup

[limber knot]

id imagine there are bigger issues than financial with a family that big

[unreal quarry]

big? its an average size around here. big families have 10 kids. i only have 5

[limber knot]

Where you are from? Didn't you say florida?

[unreal quarry]

texas

[limber knot]

Oh

Everything is bigger in texas

[unreal quarry]

except the pay

[limber knot]

Last I checked, average family size was ~4

Average texas married size: 3.5 (4), and 2.86 (3) for all

[unreal quarry]

not sure what to tell you 😛

stats dont show everything

[limber knot]

Its averaged out across the state i know

[unreal quarry]

for instance, my dad was 1 of 11 kids. my mom was 1 of 8.

etc

[limber knot]

In my area, I haven't knowingly met someone from a family size > 5

[olive garden]

curious, are you religious? It's just that all these huge families I know about are all Christian

[unreal quarry]

my parents are christian. i'm atheist

[golden gust]

probs coal miner families

[unreal quarry]

myself, i have 3 brothers and 2 sisters

my wife only has 2 sisters

[real cave]

thats a big family

xd

[unreal quarry]

oh, you should see the cousins.. we dont have a family tree. we have a family forest

[wide chasm]

draws minimum spanning tree

[golden gust]

I was today year old when I found out that you could set creepers off with flint and steel

[real cave]

average family size here is 4 members

[unreal quarry]

think thats cool, cat? throw a potion at them first

[real cave]

thats pretty much a default setting

[wide chasm]

Throw a trident with channeling at those creepers 🙂

[unreal quarry]

if a creeper has a potion effect when it explodes it leaves a lingering effect :3

[golden gust]

I already know about the potion one coz I'm pretty sure I recall hitting the code for that for something

I mean, I shoulda known, just can't say I ever really tested the flint one lol

[unreal quarry]

creepers were one of my favorites to play around in the code with

[real cave]

coders

[olive garden]

@wide chasm what does that do?

[unreal quarry]

also were frustrating because of the way the swelling was implemented

lightning charges creepers

[wide chasm]

Channeling makes a lightning strike appear at the entity that was hit with the trident, so the creeper becomes powered.

[unreal quarry]

(if you use purpur you can ride and control creepers, including tapping spacebar to ignite them or hold spacebar to charge them)

runs away

[olive garden]

I see

[real cave]

you all PLAY play minecraft, or just code it and test stuff out?

[limber knot]

best change is to cancel creeper explosion events when Y>60

[real cave]

because i stopped seriously playing it when tekkit classic died

[patent leaf]

There is a guy who tells me that despite having 64GB of RAM I can still have lag, can someone tell me why?

He said: Running water is super bad on lag, but having too much ram can make you lock up for extended periods of time

But I don't understand what you mean

[golden gust]

ram != performance

[real cave]

yeah

[golden gust]

Metric fucktons of ram = metric fucktons of ram for the jvm to manage

[real cave]

people give the server as much ram as possible thinking its gonna translate into performance

it aint happening

[golden gust]

You're much more likely to bottleneck the CPU before you bottleneck your ram

[limber knot]

Not even G1GC can handle that well.

Maybe ZGC; but that's obviously still WIP

[patent leaf]

So how much ram do you recommend me to put?

[real cave]

too many variables

players/plugins

you should know

[golden gust]

There is generally very little reason to go over like 10G

[limber knot]

Having too much ram can allocated to MC can also cause lag, especially when the garbage collector runs

[unreal quarry]

@patent leaf imagine a GB of ram is a gallon of water. can you carry and manage 64 gallons of water?

[static badge]

yes I'm very buff

[patent leaf]

10 players, 190 mods (1.12.2) (4/5 plugins)

[unreal quarry]

then carry on, leaf

[real cave]

ah, modded server?

[golden gust]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ENCRGclD7Y

[limber knot]

(DiscordBot) Scooby Doo & Shaggy - length 3m 17s - 37,118 likes, 3,024 dislikes (92.5%) - 11,572,629 views - Dominique Grit on 2011.07.23

[patent leaf]

yes

[real cave]

nothing mentioned about ram by the modpack dev?

[static badge]

modpack dev

[real cave]

you know what i mean

a guy who put everything together

picked mods and bundled them

[limber knot]

Even for modded environments, I typically just go for https://mcflags.emc.gs

[golden gust]

The term is modpack connoisseur

ufuq

[real cave]

lol

shame all tekkit classic servers are pretty much dead

tekkit legends exists, but its not the same anymore

[limber knot]

Minecraft would be better if it didn't need a garbage collector and used the CPU better

[real cave]

i had dnt tekkit server which blew up only because it was the first proper server in my country, 200 dailies but close to no donations due to nature of mc back in the day

nowadays you can squeeze money for anything, which i made a good use of in mc256 xd

[limber knot]

I remember when my modpack utilized more than 16G of ram

[real cave]

it was depressing seeing tekkit classic die and so did my server

declined to 50-60 in the last months and thats it xd

[limber knot]

About the population of #paper

[real cave]

yeah, i had plenty of memory issues back in the day, plus server was based on 1.2.5 mc

and a modpack

that stuff doesnt go together xd

[limber knot]

Better than wolves was my favorite mod pack, when added with the piston mod and some other stuff back in the day...

[golden gust]

mod devs have been rivalling mojang for performance for yeeeaars

[limber knot]

Optifine

[real cave]

1.15.2 optifine when

[static badge]

any mod can generally do that

[real cave]

gotta flex with my cape

[limber knot]

Optifine is 78% done

[real cave]

yeah i checked the progress thread

[static badge]

ptifine

[limber knot]

Its sad that there is a mod like optifine

[real cave]

wdym

i updated to 1.15.2 just to see i get 30 fps max

and then

i realized it somehow made my laptop use integrated gpu for java lol

[limber knot]

Its been around for a long long time, theres no reason most of the optimizations hasn't been mainlined

[real cave]

switched it back on gpu, and i get solid 300

well, optifine certainly gives less boost than it did a long time ago

[unreal quarry]

optifine's performance enhancements are just a bunch of cheap tricks. one of the more noticable ones is that particles dont collide with blocks (became very apparent when campfires came into the game because the smoke goes through the ceiling)

[limber knot]

I'm more referring to the mcpatcher patches

I normally don't end up GPU bound, I have an RTX 2080 super

[real cave]

flex

i have 1660ti

on this laptop

i have another one with gtx 970m

lol, i just noticed a channel dedicated to taylor swift.. is that some kind of an inside joke or you all really like her?

[limber knot]

Ah I upgraded from my 1060 to this

[static badge]

demonwav is a massive fan boy

and so he created a channel

[real cave]

lol ight

[limber knot]

Honestly though, I get just as much frames now on windows with my 2080super as I did on linux with my 1060

So thats a thing

[real cave]

my dog is so afraid of the drone lul

[limber knot]

Both of my systems are running the same version of openjdk so its not that

[real cave]

any good phone recommendations?

looking at oneplus 7t pro

if i wont be able to find anything better, im getting it

[limber knot]

How much

[real cave]

my budget or the phone?

[limber knot]

the budget

And what features do you want

[real cave]

all

and around 800 euros