#Not a Drop to Drink Series 3 Ep6 - Vancouver Island By Night || Dice Friends

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Due to the vampiric, macabre, and, horror subject matter of Not a Drop to Drink, the series may contain the following: blood, violence, gore, and mental health issues. Viewer discretion is advised.

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Not a Drop to Drink Series 3 Ep6 - Vancouver Island By Night || Dic...

Due to the vampiric, macabre, and, horror subject matter of Not a Drop to Drink, the series may contain the following: blood, violence, gore, and mental health issues. Viewer discretion is advised.

Dragon Shield code: LRRMTG5
DriveThruRPG Affiliate Link: http://LRR.cc/DriveThruRPG

Support LRR: http://patreon.com/loadingreadyrun
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proud haven
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An episode 6? They're still alive??

untold meteor
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finally, a Total Party Kill

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Jo really killed that whole party with her ploy

lean hemlock
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The Bride about to make this a red wedding

neat kestrel
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I was so hopeful we were going a day early this episode (I have something the morning after it's uploaded, so it would mean being able to watch it much sooner) but it's a 2 day countdown instead. Still, hype!

proud haven
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under 24 hours!

digital cliff
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Oh no I've made a scheduling error - I marked off tonight and tomorrow for podcast editing, and I cannot edit while listening to anything else with words

neat kestrel
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Oh no, looks like you'll have to reschedule your editing, right? Right? /j

digital cliff
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I'm sure I can get through the entire episode edit tomorrow night...

edgy scaffold
grand lodge
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I'm glad they saved TED

stuck ocean
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Is the Ted love to do with a LRR meme I don't know about?

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Or did folks just really dig him?

grand lodge
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I just liked how he was introduced. "There's a ravnos, his name is ted..." and then onto the next person.

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There was a lot of very cool and interesting names that was thrown around, then also just "ted".

untold meteor
untold meteor
vernal blaze
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yeah, i just immediately liked him

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chat loves an underdog

untold meteor
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plus he used vampire powers to do a magic trick doable by a kid with a bit of prep

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love it

past tangle
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I just want him to exposit more for everyone. I look foreward to TED Talks

untold meteor
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now we need Ted and T-buck to meet

proud haven
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I don't remember who Ted is

untold meteor
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we just met him in that episode

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the ravnos trying to go to Vancouver Island

past tangle
eternal bane
grand lodge
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Ted just passed the Vibe Check

eternal bane
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So since the beginning of the series I'd been fascinated with the idea of a sequel/alternative series that's ran in Werewolf the Apocalypse but given the name drop of ||The House of the Wyrm|| I now have a Deep Abiding NEED to know what's going on with the Garou present on Vancouver Island.

dark oracle
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re: ted - I dunno what to do, Jacob, you just make compelling NPCs

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and if that NPCs is likable, then they are going to be loved by the community. Plus he felt a bit like an audience surrogate, just watching the party and thinking "wow, look at all these assholes"

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fight at the end was great, and the social combat worked so well I need to work out how to do a version of it in my campaigns in other games

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it's just a really clean way to do the "have a big party and politics is important" kind of scene that you always want to do in games but many of them cough D&D cough support that very poorly mechanically

untold meteor
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I mean, it's not made for that, so it's not poor support, it's just not made for it.

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I can't complain when a hammer doesn't saw a board properly.

hot bobcat
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Oliver “Ten-Ton-Fist” Tyndall Jesus lol

dark oracle
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throwing the whiskey orb was a great play, as well

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also, very minor thing that amuses maybe only me - in the wrap up, over jacob's right shoulder (so left as you look at the screen) you can see a reflection on the TV of what I assume is Adam and Heather, but the look like the shoulders of a massive unit wearing a read tanktop with a ducks head

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wait am I...talking about baldurs gate 2 again?

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I guess it would probably australian highlander really. Anyway.

eternal bane
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So there's always a little Pilot light in the back of my brain just always thinking about Running a Vampire game again and like this season in general and episodes 5 and 6 in Specific have just like Smashed a proverbial Whiskey Orb onto that flame till it was a roaring bonfire. I have to commend Jacob about the way he ran the Social Combat, it was profoundly compelling and like Felt very easy to Get.

Damn I really have to get some writing done soon and get a game spun up once I move in a few months.

dark oracle
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very easy to get and pretty easy to run

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like, players have some goals or some people to talk to; they make a roll or two against those people and gain (or lose) information (or status).

somber echo
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Fan art that I need: all 4 of them in a Dodge Viper, a car that is 90% engine and barely fits 2. Hard top off, 2 in the seats and two standing, hanging on to the roof, screaming through Vancouver at 5am

untold meteor
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i'm sure at least silas and Jessica could share the same seat

dark oracle
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oliver in the boot

untold meteor
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there we go

somber echo
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Sitting on the rear with his feet down by the seats and mustache in the wind

untold meteor
somber echo
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Terrifying

dark oracle
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I see you have found footage of tripathy

eternal bane
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Silas must have done an excellent job navigating from the wheel well of the viper

somber echo
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Yelling over engine noise and Oliver singing the Knight Rider theme

swift karma
eternal bane
rapid aspen
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In the past I've gently recommended these games to friends in my Dark Ages Vampire games. I'm done being gentle.

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(... I'm being sneaky by recommending the extended social combat sequence as a way to run things at court, or beyond just 1:1. But honestly being sneaky is still in theme for Vampire) 😁

swift karma
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Chat, what was the name of the Fire-based thing that Tremere could learn in old editions, that Cameron jokes about in an earlier season (and maybe it got cubed?)

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Was it Lure of Flames?

untold meteor
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a quick wiki search seem to say that it is that

swift karma
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Well I found that name in a VtM wiki - my question was more "is what I found the thing Cam talked about?"

gloomy coyote
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By the time they get back to Victoria the whole of BC is just gonna be 'oh, oh THAT'S how that coterie gets shit done'

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They walk into a room and before anyone realizes what's happened there's a pile of ash

untold meteor
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that's how they roll in Victoria

gloomy coyote
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Literal, metaphorical, makes no difference, you want something in ashes, this is the coterie you call

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Just.... just be clear you may not get to exactly choose what ends up in ashes

dark oracle
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@swift karma yes, he referred to lure of flames

eternal bane
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I do love the energy of Silas' encounter with the || Puttanesca brothers basically just being like, "What are you asking me for, what are you a cop?"||

untold meteor
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no need for spoilering stuff that happened in the episode here ^^

raven sonnet
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So let me get this straight. Out of everyone in the coterie, Oliver is the only one who has 2 confirmed kindred kills (and another by proxy of SbN)?

Even Jo only has 1 onscreen kill and that was a human (and another human by proxy)

grand lodge
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Hey, that's stolen valor. Stalks did that all by herself(?)

swift karma
eternal bane
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At this point Ollie really needs to take everyone's advice and realize exactly just how much of a force to be reckoned with he is

hollow holly
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Oh hey, Jo || IS messing around with Knives || . I am NOT crazy.

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Good job brain, you put those pieces together.

rotund cloak
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I love the phrase from Cameron of "Jo vibechecked the room with a claymore"

grand lodge
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Honestly, based

hollow holly
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So accurate

raven sonnet
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Also on a rewatch: Jacob mentioning that Oliver might have a chance to talk to Theo about religious stuff after Elysium?So much irony.

grand lodge
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Well, he's not lying

eternal bane
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I like to imagine Oliver knowing how to hotwire a car comes from like him driving a beater car in the 80s where like the ignition was shot so instead he had to hotwire it to get it moving

lean hemlock
swift karma
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Reminded me of Stu, from What We Do in the Shadows a bit

eternal bane
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Also like revisiting his description and his interaction with the players, I found him like Genuinely quite attractive. Just like in his aestetic, in how he was voiced and also just his demeanor compared to the rest of the Vancouver court

rain rapids
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Ho

Ly

Fuck

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Jacob you beautiful bastard

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Everyone is so good, I am at a loss for words

tall lodge
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Driving the PCs and a 2004 Dodge Viper like they stole it

rain rapids
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Except they actually stole the viper

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That ending was fucking brutal

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Holy fuck

rotund cloak
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Just wow that ending, such amazing storytelling

raven sonnet
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Would it be right to assume that Theo probably owes a life boon if the coterie insists? That is some incredible power if so.

dark oracle
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certainly arguably yes

eternal bane
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Ehhhhhhhhhhhhh kinda?? Like Jo or Jess could certainly press for it, but the argument could be made that Silas was doing his duty as his childe

dark oracle
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yea, that is why I went with arguably yes

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certainly they could reasonably ask theo for a medium to large boon, even silas - like silas rooted out a pair of....somethings...

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what the hell were they? Sabat?

shy badge
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...for some reason I want to try statting up a Abyssal Exalted now named Oliver Skullcrusher.

eternal bane
raven sonnet
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and apparently they know (and show deference to?) Mary as well, so lrrFINE

lean hemlock
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I believe Theo mentioned the Order of the Wyrm, so they're some sort of Wyrm cultists I guess?

dark oracle
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oh, you're right he did

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and on googling that ||Walter Ramsauer is a listed member of that order;|| Jacob with the deep lore once again

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which, I know he knows it extremely well, but it is nice that he brings that to the fore; allows others with deep lore a little sniff of the good stuff ahead of the rest of us mere mortals 🙂

mighty laurel
dark oracle
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well indeed

hot bobcat
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I do love the image of a battle between two telekinetics involving a lot of sharp objects floating in midair, waiting for one combatant’s concentration to slip

spice monolith
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||WIZARD DUEL!!! WIZARD DUEL!!!||

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jesus christ what a session

untold meteor
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vampire wizards

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lotsa fire

spice monolith
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also the storytelling for the balefire was just 👌

untold meteor
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we don't need to spoiler stuff here ^^

spice monolith
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I feel so vindicated I am not the only one who does a little cross-splatting with blood sorcery >.>

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also the messy crit after messy crit during the party was just hilarious 🤣

untold meteor
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and for once it wasn't the players that did it the most !

spice monolith
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the storyteller is not immune to dice :P

untold meteor
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the curse has been passed on

spice monolith
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oh I am sure it will come around

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especially with how reckless the players seem to have gotten

untold meteor
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seem you seem to know stuff about this universe, is there any side effect to what Silas did with his blood potency ?

spice monolith
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I think it might mean his Bane Severity got raised along with all the rest?

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let me look up the exact wording

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yeah so I believe his Bane Severity would go up too, for the duration of the power, so if he'd want to make a ghoul, he'd need to give them a lot more blood

civic zephyr
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is silas the sort of person who'd be out there making ghouls in the last minutes before he zonks off for the day

neat kestrel
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Yeah Blood of Potency less than an hour before dawn is basically a gimmie

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Increased BP has positives and negatives but if you're not feeding and your Bane isn't an issue, it's basically a straight buff

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(feeding gets harder as BP increases and some other stuff scales with BP, not all of those are positive)

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Just finished the episode and crikey that was a lot

small cosmos
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This was such a great episode. I particularly loved that we got a Tzimisce who said "fuck you" to the entire concept of gender. That's exactly why the Tzimisce are such a vibe for me

spice monolith
past tangle
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They also tend to say "fuck you" to the entire concept of morality along with that, soo

spice monolith
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tbh, the basic Tremere bane sometimes feels like a gimmie anyway >.>

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but their alt bane is just so crippling

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the Tzimisce was fun yeah

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even if they are a Noddist 😔

spice monolith
past tangle
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Fair.. fair.. theoretically the Camarilla are the least to do such since they try to hew closer to being "human" but.. yeah

neat kestrel
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Yeah given how the Tzimisce thing is essentially Transhumanist hoarders....

granite wasp
proud haven
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I basically assume most Vampire Sires have sex at least once with their Childes... Childeren?

spice monolith
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Childer is the plural form

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but yeah, I haven't really gotten an impression it's that unusual and/or frowned upon

eternal bane
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Might be an Archon thing specifically. An abuse of his power and station. Or like might be an implication that harming Jo would be an easy way to hurt Knives

hollow holly
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I just saw it as Jo going through A Lot and finding some solace in Knives's company

untold meteor
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it's already pretty much an abuse of power and station, getting it on with the person that has some much less power than you

hollow holly
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But yeah the fact it continued and such definitely gets into power dynamic stuff

granite wasp
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So I assume to see Mary’s stuff it’s high level Auspex?
Because that seems a common discipline between Tremere and Ravnos

spice monolith
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not Ravnos actually

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they get Animalism/Obfuscate/Presence

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so ol' mr pirate must have it out-of-clan

granite wasp
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And Mary’s stuff is earlier edition malkavian specific power probably?

spice monolith
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ngl I am slowly beginning to question if Mary is even a kindred

eternal bane
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Yeahhhhh that's kind of the reading I got. Or maybe she Used to be a Malk

spice monolith
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I mean, probably, but she seems involved in a lot of stuff

eternal bane
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And then became something... more

spice monolith
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for all we know, she might have been the one who "disappeared" Sigfried

proud haven
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Wait... Mary is a Bigfoot???

hollow holly
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... oh my god

spice monolith
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I mean, the 3rd eye thing earlier deffo points to Salubri

eternal bane
granite wasp
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I like how across Series 3 Oliver has been… deflanderized

spice monolith
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and at least in the oWoD they liked to make Saulot a big bad boogymen behind some pretty bad shit

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but the fact Mr Balefire seemed to know pretty well who Mary was... suspicious to say the least

granite wasp
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I recommend before facing old kindred to equip an M202 Flash

spice monolith
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especially with that line about Silas practically being one of them already

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but one of whom? Infernalists? servants of Mary?

hollow holly
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Kindred should just have the Elemental Materia linked with a Fire Materia in their armor. Simple as that.

granite wasp
eternal bane
hollow holly
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... honestly that's a great idea

granite wasp
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Asbestos pants or an M202 for fighting vampires?

hollow holly
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Both tbh

untold meteor
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yeah but you don't want to poison your food supply

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that's why you don't use asbestos

granite wasp
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Nomex then

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Or is that bad because microplastics

hollow holly
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Look the Asbestos suit is for Elyseum

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You don't wear that to feedings

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.... which I guess also happens at Elyseum, shjt

spice monolith
swift karma
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A colloquial demon, if you will

granite wasp
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Nomex is the plastic fiber used to make firefighter turnout gear

swift karma
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Then again, demons do exist in WoD - isn't there a whole clan that has to do with them?

granite wasp
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Also like the flame retardant suits of race car drivers and pilots

eternal bane
spice monolith
spice monolith
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and mostly relevant for the kolduny, less so for the non-practising

swift karma
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Oh, I'm thinking of Baali

spice monolith
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I mean Mary does give off a non-insignificant Baali vibe at this point, yeah

untold meteor
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with a bit of luck will find out soon enough

swift karma
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Now, Baali were nixed from Cults of the Blood Gods by Paradox, but, if we want to get conspiratorial about it, maybe that's so they could put them somewhere later, and Jacob is previewing that for us?

spice monolith
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I doubt it

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Paradox doesn't seem willing to go as extreme as the Baali tend to get

swift karma
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Alternative, just cause they're not in the book, Jacob could have done his own version, for his own chronicle

spice monolith
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that's a more likely case imo

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anyway, if she is Baali than ho boy that is Bad

swift karma
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Oh, at least according to the white wolf wiki, the Baali started The Order of the Wyrm

eternal bane
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Oh, wyrm?

spice monolith
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yup

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as in Werewolf the Apocalypse Wyrm

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and seeing as our visiting german was leaving spirals everywhere, that just confirms it more

swift karma
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Ok, then yeah, I'm thinking Mary is the demon patron of that branch of the Order of the Wyrm or something, trying to get free

spice monolith
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there are garou on the island, so it is possible that she is imprisoned there

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in which case she could be a bane, seeing as they'd probably just kill a vampire outright

dark oracle
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and theo specifically mentioned the cult of the wurm

untold meteor
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that balefire guy .... he was the wurst

spice monolith
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best wurst visitor

dark oracle
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and if you look up the cult of the wurm on the wiki, ||our friend walter is mentioned|| (spoilies for out of NADTD info)

swift karma
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Hey Jacob, wouldn't it be fun to include some NPCs from other parts of the lore, or from your other chronicles?
What's the worst that could happen to them?

untold meteor
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you can ping him

swift karma
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No, I know

untold meteor
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(you will need to repost the message)

swift karma
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That's was a joke

spice monolith
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isn't that what Reverand Brother Sweetwater was?

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oh wait

swift karma
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Yes

spice monolith
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right

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took me a minute

swift karma
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The joke is both of the external NPCs... had similiar outcomes

untold meteor
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there's so many different wikis

spice monolith
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well apparently RB Sweets is still out there so... 🤷‍♀️

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might need a redo there

eternal bane
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I mean Monica was a SPC written into a book and she hasn't met a terrible outcome. Yet

spice monolith
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is she?

untold meteor
dark oracle
eternal bane
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Yeah she's In cult of the Bloodgods. Some of the flavor text about Clan Hecata is from her perspective

untold meteor
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thanks

dark oracle
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oh, order of the wyrm is what I looked up

spice monolith
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ahhh

proud haven
eternal bane
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Hense the ominous Yet

spice monolith
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well she doesn't seem too happy with the Puttanesca so there's that

eternal bane
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It's been a while since I've flipped through my copy but if memory serves Monica had a hand to play with their whole Family Reunion event for their clan

spice monolith
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I'm sorry, the fucking Puttanesca, to quote the book

spice monolith
swift karma
spice monolith
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I'll still take the Puttanesca over the Dunsirn mind you

eternal bane
proud haven
#

Jo is just a little Brujah

granite wasp
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@stuck ocean Which VTM V5 books have you contributed to?

granite wasp
spice monolith
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lol

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I'm a simple person, if I have to pick one bloodline of the Hecata, it's gonna be the Lamia
if I have to pick from Giovanni bloodlines... idk maybe Rossellini?

neat kestrel
swift karma
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There are a lot more V5 books that I thought there were

granite wasp
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Maybe I should wait for the story to conclude or the Q&A to learn what Mary is

neat kestrel
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I don't think you'll find Mary, the entities I can find in V5 sources that go by Mary don't fit the description

granite wasp
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I mean in general Vampire

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Not just V5

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Maybe a wraith?

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Not a mage or garou

eternal bane
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Jacob "20 years of Vampire click-clacking around my brain" Burgess might be pulling from an older text

granite wasp
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Can’t wait for the next series Port Hardy by Night

honest imp
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Or Jacob could be just doing his own thing

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Could even be many entities in the WoD claiming to be "Bloody Mary".

eternal bane
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Also that!

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The World of Darkness doesn't operate on SAG rules where every individual needs their own perfectly Unique name. Though some of the more Volatile and tender Ego having individuals might still enforce that

granite wasp
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When was it ever specified to be bloody Mary
I only ever heard Mary from Jacob

gilded silo
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Since Walter seems to be working with/for her and is a member of the order of the Wyrm, I'm guessing she's some sort of Wyrm spirit. If so, this could be Jacob's way of fulfilling Adam's request for a Werewolf pen pal from session 0 of series 2

eternal bane
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Oh thats insidious. I love it

gilded silo
spice monolith
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I love the idea of a werewolf pen pal

tiny finch
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She did appear when Silas said Bloody Mary 3 times

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At this point, there's been like 3 different "Mary"s. Mary who had a little Lamb, Bloody Mary, and biblical footwasher Mary.
Doesn't mean this Mary is any of them, but she does appear to be making use of the weight of the name Mary

hollow holly
#

Seemingly also appeared as Marylin Monroe to Ted

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Which still fits the theme

tiny finch
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Oh yeah. And I assume the female baseball player(?) is another form of Mary

hollow holly
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Most likely

mighty laurel
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IIRC, she has appeared as Marilyn Monroe to Oliver too

granite wasp
proud haven
#

could just be borrowed whatever Mary associations people have

tiny finch
stuck ocean
#

Just want to say this is delicious speculation.

Thank you for trusting me enough to feel comfortable building a theory with small details.

dark oracle
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Speculation is half the fun 🙂

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Ita certainly true Mary might not be compelled by the bloody Mary's and have just turned up for funsies

eternal bane
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Thank you!
Very few pieces of media have inspired this degree of Pepe Sylvia level speculation out of me and Not a Drop To Drink is so profoundly scratching that itch

dark oracle
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I'm still kind of thinking she is an ancient malk - there have been a few who went by bloody Mary who are i think as low as 3rd or 4th gen who could have the power to do this

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But her being Oliver's lupine penpal would be incredible(y bad for him)

tiny finch
#

We absolutely trust you to make an excellent and intriguing story worth speculating about, Jacob.
Just like we trust that the PCs will be chaos goblins, and that messy crits will show up with delicious timing

trail eagle
#

THIS SHOW SO DANG GOOD

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I really hope this isn't the last time we see Jacob in the DM's seat on this channel. 🙏

granite wasp
trail eagle
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Speaking as someone for whom this series is literally their only experience with WoD

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(haven't even played Bloodlines)

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I'd love to see a different WoD line.

eternal bane
granite wasp
#

Hunter the Reckoning where they are RCMP?

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Wraith
Graham, James, Kathleen, Cam, Alex who all died in the Van Dump after hitting a moose in that Feed Dump episode

tall lodge
#

What I love about this is the story is built to reward Lore knowledge but not penalise not knowing and the community makes it so even if you don't know yourself you can get those Lore drops

granite wasp
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The funny people in my computer tell me stories

honest imp
#

One of the things I love about Oliver - he's a great audience surrogate

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as well as a counter to some of the more "90s edgelord" aspects of the setting.

granite wasp
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I do like how he was deflanderized
I agree with Adam in the Season 2 Q&A where I think he went a bit took far with the obliviousness

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Like the back half of season 2 and into season 3 he started to play down the obliviousness

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And now he seems new but starting to understand the depth of his situation

eternal bane
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I love the bit where like Jacob had mentioned early on this season where with the dots in politics Oliver has like actually do really mean he has the capacity to like Get Court and the Rules, Oliver just kind of had to get past the information overload and contextualize everything to really Use it effectively

granite wasp
#

It’s like if you took an experienced American senator then dropped them in the House of Commons

tall lodge
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Ooh I love that analogy

swift karma
celest hinge
#

Mag nificent.

What an insane episode. The party's conclusion was perfect, creepy Masque was a great addition, and seeing Jordan just throwing Knives fully under the bus here (as far as we can tell) -

And then, after 3 full hours of the coterie back and forthing in social combat, massive struggle and sacrifice....

INSTANTLY jumping a fucking Wyrm-Tainted Thaumaturge and just dropping him without a second of hesitation.

celest hinge
# stuck ocean Just want to say this is delicious speculation. Thank you for trusting me enoug...

The "mystery" of Mary (and all of the other small detail pieces set up through Victoria and the island as a whole, and now drawing in the greater world) has been truly special to piece together. I have a murder board document I keep for the series in private keeping track of the still missing pieces and watching more and more threads starting to connect between them....oooooo it's been good. Thank you so much for the effort you've but in here to make this all cohesive.

#

Also, continuing the Ted love. V5's revision to the Ravnos have made them a truly fascinating clan, and seeing even just the surface level of a take on one of them has me begging for more.

Especially with how I can imagine them syncing up with the Thinblood plot.

celest hinge
#

There's also Mary Baker, who is more canadian specific.

proud haven
#

She left a couple of white walls // And a single cross // She took with her // A couple of secrets // Which now are lost // I never asked her anything // But she knew // What she knew

swift karma
#

If it helps, I believe it was specifically a Kansas uniform?

granite wasp
#

I was born in Kansas City
Am I mary?

swift karma
mighty laurel
tardy portal
neat kestrel
#

Seemed like more of a loßer to me by the end

tardy portal
#

Oh you're right, he's from Germany! My bad. 😉

sudden gate
#

I like how Oliver in session 0 wants a purpose and has now enmeshed himself with 2 powerful kindred.

neat kestrel
#

Which is fine, as long as their goals are always aligned

#

I can't foresee any circumstances that would make that not the case /s

vagrant pelican
#

audience shouts in unison GREEN FLAME

dark oracle
tardy portal
#

I'm so happy to see a little Silas focus the last 2 sessions. Seeing him interact more with his sire and his clan, maneuvering the elysium and jumping into action saving Theo was so fun! Here's hoping we will see the aftermath of that fight, too.

neat kestrel
#

cocks shotgun Elmo's worm tainted

untold meteor
#

lewd

neat kestrel
#

I wonder whether Theo will come to the island to try to help the coterie deal with the situation once and for all?

untold meteor
#

I feel Theo is not quite in shape for that

neat kestrel
#

Yeah, but that's also a good reason why Theo can't just do everything for the coterie

#

He could help investigate, help with some wards, etc, but not be in any shape to be doing high level battle magic

tardy portal
neat kestrel
#

Most storytellers I wouldn't trust bringing their pet characters along, but Jacob? He'll always let the players take centre stage

tardy portal
#

I think Theo might be able to provide knowledge/resources. But I expect he wouldn't sent someone over, because I imagine he's pretty vulnerable as long as his injuries are still healing. And thus he might need protection. (But I'm new to the system so I don't know if that is the case.)

neat kestrel
#

Actually if Theo has Fisher King (Blood Sigils, page 72) he could bounce back relatively quickly

Makes the caster one with their land, giving them access to it's secrets. This can be a Chain Ritual.

Can make a Wits + Streetwise or Survival roll to ask questions about the land. The caster can ask one extra question per session. This Ritual lasts until the end of the story. If Chained with Land's Sustenance and Compel the Inanimate, the casters gain complete control over the land and the casters can heal a total of 5 Aggravated damage each night

#

Compel the Inanimate:

Give a simple command to an inanimate object which it follows a few minutes later
Land's Sustenance:
Feed from a place of power, turning it into a place of suffering where injuries become more severe.

#

I don't like it, but it exists

mint geyser
#

Just caught up on this episode via the Twitch vod (because I like to read the chat as it happens) and the pre-show intro put the thought "Heather's House and Clan of Lies" into my brain and now I can't get it out

neat kestrel
#

Trying to work out which clan isn't Clan of Lies

spice monolith
#

Now granted, Tremere love zoning their chantries on lay lines and such, and these would count, but he'd still need 2 more people to cast the other rituals

#

But yeah, I don't think Theo's coming to the island

#

Mostly because a) he'd need to be snuggled in, since Knives is still keeping everyone out and b) Vancouver court will notice if the Tremere Primogen suddenly vanishes

#

And since he seems a pretty strong voice for the city staying independent, that might mess with that too

#

Either way, he can't be very active in court while he heals, but I imagine the news on the attempt on his life will make the rounds sooner rather than later

#

Maybe he can spin it as an internal Tremere matter, but even then

near kelp
spice monolith
#

I mean he has the robes, I'm sure he could pull off the Palpatine look

neat kestrel
neat kestrel
onyx totem
#

I love the thought that the Coterie somehow managed to bring their cursed messy crit energy with them to Vancouver and inflicted it on the court, driving half of them berserk

tall lodge
#

Tripithy at court next week getting so much sympathy over his wild childe and her coterie

spice monolith
#

I'm leaving that in

dark oracle
neat kestrel
#

As long as she's not Wyld

tardy portal
#

Wait, I just realized, Knives won't like it that the coterie brought Ted with them, right?

neat kestrel
#

Probably not if he finds out

#

But what's one more secret, right? Right?

tardy portal
#

If, ... if is good.

neat kestrel
#

Like, for Jo it's minor in comparison, but for the rest it could be bad

spice monolith
#

Ravnos can be pretty good at flying under the radar, but with so few kindred on the island, it could be trouble

tardy portal
#

Also about Ted. The way he was introduced, described and impersonated by Jacob (voice and general friendliness) are not the only reason why the community reacts so strongly to this npc. To me the main factor was, that he took a risk to trust the coterie (whom we all like very much) and ask for help and offer useful information/advice and cooperation in return. This is so rare and it felt genuine.

Also, Jacob, you're way too good at making him come across as very likable/sympathetic (and also kinda cute).
In short: He's adopted. i love him. Must protecc. ^^

eternal bane
#

I know we're talking like "oh maybe Theo comes to the island" but like he's definitely gonna need to sit in place and recover for a while, though I could definitely see Damian possibly being tapped in as a more involved Resourse for Silas after the events of last session. Like even if he doesn't come to the island I could see him putting more and more money at Silas' disposal for like having saved their collective sire.

tough viper
#

The Coterie: Primogens saved in 30 minutes or the next one's free!

honest imp
#

Don't make promises like that

#

if Tripothy gets in trouble, Jess is primed to pull some Mufasa shit.

tardy portal
#

Because he felt snubbed by her actions at Elysium?

somber echo
#

Jessica, dressed as a rook: "Long live the king!" stab

somber echo
swift karma
#

The Adventures of Marge and T-Buck
This Old Haven (Oliver's woodworking show)

#

Chancy and The Monsters (The Animated Series)

eternal bane
#

their relationship already had Tripothy feeling spurned and neglected, so her like Going over their head to the prince Regent would be like an icicle to the heart

swift karma
#

(Ok, these are more TV pitches than actual play pitches, but whatever)

spice monolith
#

if there's one thing Toreador can't stand, it's being outshined

#

and she did kinda just do that

#

pretty damn casually too

tardy portal
#

Honestly, this show is so much better to me than a lot of actual tv stuff. So keep the pitches coming. XD

#

Regarding Tripothy: yeah, valid points.

spice monolith
#

I mean hell, I'd love to see them do Werewolf at some point
except W5 is god-awful, so maybe it's best if they don't >.>

swift karma
#

I would love to learn more about werewolf IT guy

gray summit
#

i wonder if Jessica just blood bonded T-Buck to keep him under control or if she's also using him as a source of income by continuing the blood alchemy stuff, possibly with some assistance from Monica in setup and such?

honest imp
#

I don't think explicitly as such... but that's definitely where the money for smuggling Ted is coming from.

eternal bane
#

I feel like if blood bonding T-Buck wasn't a case of " I didn't think that far ahead" that would be an excellent use of his talents

swift karma
#

It turns out, of the two Rythym Cafe hosts, Heather is in fact more like Walter White, despite what tumblr thinks.

tardy portal
#

I think it has been mentioned that she and Monika now manage T-Bucks business.

spice monolith
#

T-Buck, we need to cook!

#

and by we I mean you

#

chop chop

eternal bane
#

I can totally see T-Buck loudly and enthusiastically yelling about Magnets

tardy portal
#

Is that a reference that went over my head?

swift karma
#

^ A scene from Breaking Bad

somber echo
#

Magnets? How do they work?

tardy portal
#

Ahh! Thank you!

eternal bane
#

Breaking (thin) Blood

gray summit
dark oracle
#

I think it is mentioned in the memoriam?

tardy portal
#

I think so, too.

swift karma
#

T-Buck did mention Monica helping him get his product to Vancouver, I think

spice monolith
#

T-Buuuuuuck

untold meteor
scarlet sky
#

There's a joke to be made about the inventor of Vampire HRT being called T-Buck, but I can't quite make it work

#

Also, I feel like Tripothy would be very into a potion that flipped gender presentation daily.

spice monolith
#

I mean, T-Buck didn't invent the formula at large, really

eternal bane
#

getting your T Block, from T-Buck

spice monolith
#

he invented his version, sure, but I reckon it's one of those things that alchemists end up reinventing constantly

scarlet sky
#

Or your T-shot. You're T-buckshot as ot were

proud haven
#

now, when someone says they are a T-Woman or T-Man...

eternal bane
#

official T-Buck Branded Transition

spice monolith
#

I had

#

the worst idea just now

eternal bane
spice monolith
#

a transmasc Giovanni going by "Made Man"

eternal bane
#

Holy Hell I love that

spice monolith
#

because no, I can't resist a stupid mafia joke

scarlet sky
#

Now I'm just thinking about the Antonio Banderes movie The Skin I Live In, but it's a Tzimisce doing it to people pretty much for shits and giggles

vernal blaze
#

sorry, where is your worst idea? This one is gold

spice monolith
vernal blaze
#

ewwwwww

#

they nailed the horror game. Good job writers

scarlet sky
#

That sounds about right for them. But a the idea of a Tzimisce vigilant type that punishes mortals and kindred alike for crimes of an unconsensual nature by forcibly transforming people into their victims is... appealing to me. I think I've just invented a second VTM character I'd like to play

spice monolith
#

aaaand now you have me thinking about a kindred diablerizing someone, but the person they diablerize overpowers them mentally and just gets to live in their body
your Tzimisce comes along, does their thing and the diablerized vamp is just "Hey, thanks a lot buddy, was thinking about getting an appointment!"

proud haven
#

But would they still have diamonds embedded in their face? (Not an obscure reference, but certainly a wild swing from this discussion)

eternal bane
#

I once had a Tzimisce villain in a game I was running who was attempting to create a Vozhd to attack the Camarilla court with in a game I was running. Hoo boy that was a Wild encounter.

#

Bodyhorror Kaiju

somber echo
#

Heh, I have a necromancer NPC in my D&D game who does soul manipulation instead raising the dead. They have swapped bodies like 3 times this campaign...

dark oracle
#

@proud haven you can't remove the diamonds until you fix the diamond gene!

eternal bane
proud haven
#

yep

eternal bane
#

and with the doctor with the Reverse You Only Live Twice procedure

proud haven
scarlet sky
#

That looks both familiar and completely new to me

dark oracle
#

<wiggins singing> Diiiiamond face
He's the man
the man with the diamond face
a diamond place

eternal bane
#

"First you train Hard and Fast to shove diamonds into your face, then to give you extra special cover Madonna will also just... be around"

dark oracle
#

"they're made of carbon!"

spice monolith
#

which movie was that in?

#

I genuinely can't remember much Bond outside of Moonraker, CR and some bits of Quantum

eternal bane
#

the guy was in Die another day, but im riffing on a bizarre line from You only Live twice

scarlet sky
#

...You can remember Quantum? That movie killed any potential interest in Bond for me

dark oracle
#

I was quoting/riffing on Wiggins in from Rewatch With love about die another day

spice monolith
#

"remember" might be a generous word there

#

I remember it exists

eternal bane
#

The Double Bill of Rewatch with love and Kill James Bond have seared most of these movies into my brain, for good or for ill

neat kestrel
#

Hey, Skyfall and No Time To Die were pretty good

#

Spectre and Quantum were kinda duds though

#

Although we may be getting slightly off topic

dark oracle
#

FRWL is pretty fun, honestly. (Liking Graham and Matt talking about movies? in this discord?) but - genuinely, smart funny people people talking about a thing they love - and also giving shit where shit is deserved - is very fun

neat kestrel
#

#movies if anyone else wants to follow over to a more appropriate venue

obtuse grove
neat kestrel
vernal blaze
#

Cori knows what the people want

neat kestrel
#

Not 4 Drop to Drink!

obtuse grove
#

I do not have confirmation regarding any future series especially not Not 4 Drop 4 Drink

neat kestrel
#

Nah you've promised now /j

swift karma
#

Yeah, but Jacob promised this was the last, so they'll have to duel over it

neat kestrel
#

Who's the active vampire? We know they'll both be messy crits. What would it mean to succeed at a cost?

proud haven
#

The cost is there is a season 4, but it's not recorded

neat kestrel
#

Oof

fresh pewter
spice monolith
#

you have to ask your local Nossie to source you a shoddily ripped VHS

untold meteor
#

season 4 is actually a Big Foot spin off

neat kestrel
#

Can't the cost just be that there's no messy crits? Or every roll is?

#

Or that S4 is either only two episodes, or it's a year long

#

Anything but not airing

elfin ridge
#

The cost is your favourite NPC dies at the top.

#

Or maybe at the end of this one

neat kestrel
#

As long as it's glorious

fresh pewter
#

Instead of a TPK it's a PTK (Poor T-buck is Killed 😦 )

proud haven
#

See, now there's a fight over favourite NPC...

neat kestrel
#

I honestly couldn't choose between Teebuck, Monica, Chancey, Stalks and suddenly Ted, does that mean they all die?

swift karma
#

TPK - Ted's Probably Killed

elfin ridge
#

I mean I figured every NPC just ends up gone since that way we don’t miss anyone’s fav

neat kestrel
#

Honestly I'd be sad for Jess if anything happened to Monica

elfin ridge
#

Yeah me too

spice monolith
#

Obviously if that happens, Jessica just needs to learn some Necromancy for a touching Love Byond Death arc

proud haven
#

If Monica dies, I reckon she already has stuff set up for her spirit...

swift karma
elfin ridge
#

Running around beyond the veil sounds like an interesting time. Wonder how much that’d be left in tact with our fondness for messy crit rolls.

swift karma
#

Anyway, if Monica dies, I assume that just means she's been demoted to doorperson

neat kestrel
#

Well the good news is that spirits don't get hunger dice?

elfin ridge
#

Wait since we’re speculating ghost things is that Spector-lating?

spice monolith
neat kestrel
#

There's a reason I wasn't sharing the bad news

elfin ridge
#

It’s Wraith that’s the ghost one?

spice monolith
#

yup

neat kestrel
#

No 5th Edition yet, but I'm sure Jacob would run Wr20

spice monolith
#

I somehow doubt Wraith will get a 5th edition

neat kestrel
#

IDK, it got a vr gene, but I think Mage will be first

spice monolith
#

isn't Mage 5 being worked on currently?

#

I keep hearing non-credible rumours about it

neat kestrel
#

The napkin is real

#

Jason Carl confirmed that much in October

spice monolith
#

but hell, if they do make Mage 5, I guess Wraith and Changeling aren't too outrageous to expect

#

the napkin?

neat kestrel
#

Supposedly rough notes for M5

spice monolith
#

I see

#

I won't like, I'm somewhat curious

#

and really hoping it doesn't end up like Werewolf 5

neat kestrel
#

IIRC from over a dinner with Achilli

spice monolith
#

dear god do not let that happen again

neat kestrel
#

I get the impression the initial reaction up W5 was overblown but the entire line has never been my bag. We're doing it again though, we should probably move to #roleplay if we're not going to somehow link this all back to NaDtD

spice monolith
#

true, sorry for offtoping again

dark oracle
#

well, presumably Olivers penpal is built using W5 😛

neat kestrel
#

I assumed it was VtR

#

But who knows, I'm looking forward to finding out

granite wasp
#

What about Hunter

#

The forgotten V5 game

#

I want to see some of the non-blankbody non-werewolf supernatural activity on Vancouver Island

#

Ghosts, misc. lovecraftian beasts, the simic slaw

#

Sasquatch

somber echo
#

Rewatching s2 with my wife so she can catch up. Apropos to the end(ish) of this episode, Knives was explicitly sent to find and return Siegfried.

#

Has he actually looked? Did he find him incapacitated and kept him hidden?

scarlet sky
#

I doubt he's looked. Knives is incredibly power hungry

proud haven
#

Not that we are aware of, but we only know some of what he's told Jo about

swift karma
#

Well... that would be a reason to keep Tremere off the island...

somber echo
#

Bringing Siegfried back wouldn't necessarily prevent him from taking Victoria, and presumably finding Siegfried is because someone owes someone who owes Siegfried, etc, so he'd be doing his job well if he found him...hmm.

scarlet sky
#

Siegfried coming back would completely annihilate any chance of Vancouver becoming Cam territory. It does not benefit Knives to do that

dark oracle
#

I am not convinced we won't find out that knives knows exactly where seigfried is

swift karma
#

Yeah, Sigfried returning would almost certianly restore Vancouver to the independent status quo

somber echo
#

Vancouver is a given. Does he think Siegfried will claim Victoria?

#

And VI?

dark oracle
#

"we are here to find this guy who fucks up out plans to dominate vancouver" is a thing the cam sure don't feel like they would be in to

swift karma
#

If Knives wants VI, and his way to get it is as a reward from the Cam, flipping Vancouver to the Cam is the price

somber echo
#

I assume again it's because somebody on the whatever council that gives Knives orders owes Siegfried something, or needs him for something

swift karma
#

"I'm trying to find Sigfried" could just be a lie

somber echo
#

True. But at that point, why lie?

scarlet sky
#

Finding Siggy and Helping Siggy are also not necessarily the same

dark oracle
#

oh, agree, N20, but yea I wonder if that person is being played by someone else on the council

somber echo
#

nod

dark oracle
#

and "look at all the hard work the Cam are doing to find your former prince" is a good selling point

#

and maybe you keep him staked in a box so you can rescue him if it becomes expedient

somber echo
#

I'm glad it seems like "why was Vancouver Island a vampire deathtrap until Siegfried went there" is something that it seems we will resolve

scarlet sky
#

I assume it has something to do with the Lupine population

dark oracle
#

I wonder if siggi had a deal with someone and it was convenient for him to have a deathtrap to send people to

somber echo
#

Which we've heard a lot about but not actually seen post Van Damme Incident

swift karma
#

They saw one at the concert

somber echo
#

And Chance "IT Solutions" guy at the concert. (Must be a Glass Walker? If I remember the names correctly?)

scarlet sky
#

It's potentially possible that the deal Vancouver had with it's Lupines and VI suddenly being open are connected. It's a hell of a conicidence that there was a Lupine motocycle gang ready to intimidate and attack the coterie as soon as Silias get's off the boat basically

somber echo
#

Well - Chance saw Silas on the boat, called his gang, met them at the terminal?

swift karma
#

I really want to know what's up, but also, a cool way to do that would be to run a W5 game that covers the same timeline, from the other side

dark oracle
#

and we know Monica knew the island was about to open up

swift karma
#

Which would get us more LRRWoD, even if this is the last for this chronicle

dark oracle
#

like, had spent at least a year or two prior to opening up paying a shitload of money to get a huge house and dungeons built

scarlet sky
#

Also, given that going to VI was a punishment, I'm not entirely convinced that there aren't vampires on the Island that have been there much longer that Quinn knows about

untold meteor
#

well, there was the "nobody comes back from the island" thing

dark oracle
#

for sure. Decent chance the Sabat have been there longer, as well - Reverend Brother Sweetwater felt like not a new transplant

scarlet sky
#

Nobody came back, but why would they? They were exiled. They'd essentially be KOS if they did come back. Why not just cut off contact and try setting up your own kingdom in secret?

#

We did find out about the rough time line RBS stopped being active in Vancouver.

somber echo
#

Well no, I think others went trying to establish a foothold and just never came back

#

Not as a punishment

scarlet sky
#

Could be a mix of both, but we know for a fact Quinn was sent there as a punishment. He was told to establish a foothold with the expectation he'd fail and die, and he didn't

dark oracle
#

maybe quinn just the first one dumb/loyal/self righteous enough to pick up the phone when someone did a health check

scarlet sky
#

Quinn being to dumb to realize it was a punishment wouldn't surprise me

#

If you simply phrase the punishment as a promotion, the Ventrue will do whatever you tell them

dark oracle
#

<jacob voice" Ah, quinn, thank you for coming. We're going to make you Prince..."
"Thank you! It would be my honor to..."
"...of the sun"

scarlet sky
#

I am possitive there are Ventrue who have been killed by exactly that.

karmic steeple
#

Hey so uh are Oliver and Jo are now both at risk of being yeeted into daylight due to their breaking of the traditions?

somber echo
#

What did Oliver do?

swift karma
#

The Destruction

karmic steeple
#

Yeah the first one was technically under authority of the Sheriff so thats fine. The second one…..eh

dark oracle
#

I think destruction is allowed in general if the other person is also attempting a destruction

swift karma
#

Though, like all things, enforcement is political, and I assume "self defence" is a solid argument

somber echo
#

Of a Sabbat, and of a dangerous sect of Tremere in the course of protecting a Primogen? Oli's fine

dark oracle
#

this is why theo surviving is a big plus for the party

honest imp
#

Yeah, whose going to call for Oliver's head?

somber echo
#

Marge (no)

karmic steeple
#

The Tzimice

honest imp
#

The people who just tried to kill a Tremere Primogen?

scarlet sky
#

The Tzimisce would call for Oli's head on prinicple, being a Noddist and all. Theo being saved by a Caitiff is really funny

honest imp
#

Your typical vampire court may be packed with backwards-looking stuffed-up assholes, but they still understand the concept of "self defence".

karmic steeple
#

Yeah but I think theres argument to be made that Oliver had the opportunity to put veda into torpor. Like Walter was unavoidable and Theo did the destruction so its fine, but Oliver literally had a stake and instead smashed a skull.

somber echo
#

Who knows that, that would complain?

#

Theo? Nah

swift karma
scarlet sky
#

I do like that Theo is a Noddist. It's a neat call back to Season 1 where Quinn asked Silas if he was a Noddist after espousing some Noddist leaning information.

karmic steeple
#

Also as an aside, I can just imagine SbN’s reaction to Oliver recounting smashing another skull in being like “I told you killing was the solution”

somber echo
#

"Good job, Oliver Hunter. Good job."

swift karma
#

100% success rate on "solving" problems

granite wasp
swift karma
#

He seems like a non-practicing Noddist

dark oracle
swift karma
#

You know, grew up in a noddist household, knows the words to the hymms, but never really believed

dark oracle
#

especially once a primogen says "absolutely no get fucked she deserved to die, she was a wyrm cultist"

scarlet sky
#

How much does the greater Vampire community, or even the top end like the other primogens, know about Tremere Bullshit?

#

Like, does Wyrm Cultist even mean anything to anyone who isn't a Tremere?

dark oracle
#

Very likely

eternal bane
#

Average vampire? "That's creepy wizard shit"
Nosferatu Prince Regent? "I have gleaned many secrets in my time"

dark oracle
#

my assumption is - yea, any primogen or someone with a lot of occult or history or politics or similar probably knows a decent amount

swift karma
#

Yeah, presumably it's not just open information, but eternity is a long time

granite wasp
#

If you are 300 and not powerful that’s on you

scarlet sky
#

I mean, I get it? Being a Vampire is Hard. There's gotta be plenty of vampires who just take it one night at a time and never really get anywhere, and are happy with it. They just keep trudging along doing what they do.

eternal bane
#

And you gotta imagine the Average Vampire isn't getting up to Player Character levels of nonsense on a nightly basis

scarlet sky
#

Exactly. Like, there has to be other Cam Vamps on the Island who hang out at Elysium and what not. They're not deputies or anything like that. They're just Vampires

honest imp
#

I wonder how many there are at Elysium. It always sounds like there's a crowd, but all we know on the Cam side is Knives, Chancey & Crew, Quinn, and the Coterie. Then there's Monica, and Chainz and the Anarchs of Undetermined But Dwindling Numbers.

granite wasp
#

Ghouls?
Blood dolls?

scarlet sky
#

And Chainz and the Gang don't exactly show up often

karmic steeple
#

Whats the rate its supposed to be at again in terms of kindred per persons in a populace

tall lodge
#

1 in 100k?

karmic steeple
#

So there shouldnt really be too many more on VI (not including all the thinbloods). Especially if the island was closed off until 3 years ago

gloomy coyote
#

That's what it's supposed to be

#

Supposed to be and is are two quite different things

swift karma
#

VI has (so says wikipedia) ~900k people, ~400k of which live in Victoria

#

So they're already double what they're "supposed" to have hunting in Victoria, not even counting the Anarchs

gloomy coyote
#

1 in 100K is more a Camarilla standard than anything... and a lot of modules go into much, much larger cities than Victoria.

#

The standard kinda breaks down in smaller towns and metros; otherwise you'd have vampires out there in the boonies with no support structure or oversight and that's sort of part of our plot

proud haven
#

you need a certain density of humans to feed vampires

swift karma
#

Yeah, I think the idea is mostly that is how many you need to sustain a vampire, without arousing suspicion

#

Enough to create a density of people who could go missing without seeming like a pattern, or who wake up feeling tired without it seeming like a spreading illness, to have enough 24hr jobs and services that a random person walking around at 3am isn't unreasonable, etc

neat kestrel
#

1:100k is an outdated ideal that some Princes will try to maintain, more realistically in the US 1:10k is considered safe, but apparently what's safe is related to mortal rates of violent crime

#

I've seen settings where a city is at 1:3k and the Masquerade is hanging by a thread , and I've seen settings where 1:30k is about right. Generally you want to have enough vampires around for the story to work, and then you figure out whether that means an overcrowding problem and how the locals might react to it

tardy portal
#

It also might depend on the kindred involved. I could picture a smaller community with two or three kindred, if they can keep a low profile (meaning keeping the beast in check). But the point about "24 hr jobs" makes a lot of sense to me.

swift karma
#

Being a Vampire in one of those small towns where everything shuts at 5pm must be miserable

rotund cloak
#

Youve just put the thought of a Vampire location in Outback Australia in my head and Im think..... crikey,

neat kestrel
#

Probably has Earth Meld and a lot of Animalism

#

So if Oliver got Protean... skeletor

royal forum
#

Fridge thought I just had, Oliver may be building a rep as the group wetworks guy, he's killed 2 major vampire threats to the team

swift karma
rotund cloak
#

Thanks will look into it

neat kestrel
#

Usually for CoG the first chapter is free as a preview

rotund cloak
neat kestrel
#

I think for night road it's the first 3?

swift karma
#

Also makes me think of Near Dark, a movie from 1987

#

Also about rural Vampires

neat kestrel
#

Might also want to look at Out For Blood which is another CoG set in a small town

swift karma
#

Oh, I have that, but haven't played it - I got a bundle of them or something on steam

neat kestrel
#

It's an odd one, because it's a Vampire game where you play as a hunter

#

I shan't say more lest I spoil stuff

vagrant pelican
trail eagle
trail eagle
spice monolith
spice monolith
#

Okay so... WtA historically has had a lot of issues with some insensitive writing at parts. While later editions seem to be better about it (not counting the Changing Ways sourcebook for 20th because Jesus christ we're not getting into that) but generally the vibe from the community I got was "it needs work in places"
Cue 5th edition and things seemed to have been going well, Paradox hired a good team consisting of native people and poc that would address the sensitivity issues present in the material... and then they kicked them out partway through production and took it in-house instead.
The result is that they "fixed" these issues by completely stripping the werewolf tribes of any of their old cultural identity, to the point where there's not much culture there to speak of at all. The book outright states that the Apocalypse won't actually change anything for people, so why fight it, and then gets on a soapbox about how direct action doesn't actually do anything... in a game about playing a shapeshifting magic eco-terrorist.

#

Mechanically it's not terrible, I suppose, but it gutted old werewolf lore in a way that there's not actually much left to draw on. It's a toothless shell of the old WtA, and the whole "it's not a continuation, it's a remake" doesn't really hold water when it feels like it's new age Werewolf that's afraid to embrace the core tenants of its predecessors

#

Also the book is rife with traced art

#

If you want to know more, there's people out there who can explain it much better than I, but that's the tldr from my perspective

#

And gdi I should have remembered to post this in roleplaying and not here

bleak saffron
#

I specifically want to call out heather in the after stream "secret podcast" where she discussed that Jessica wouldn't know about the Netflix revival of Gilmore Girls because it's 2017. The 4 episode Netflix was in 2016 Jessica WOULD know about it!

image.png
mighty laurel
#

And isn't it 2018 in season 3?

bleak saffron
#

(yes I watch on the Twitch vods not Youtube)

karmic steeple
rain rapids
elfin ridge
honest imp
#

Maybe it did in the World of Darkness.

elfin ridge
#

I’m going to go with she hasn’t seen it yet anyway for whatever reason and part of the reason for the rewatch is to watch it.

bleak saffron
#

Perfect reason to begin a rewatch

trail eagle
proud haven
#

Australian Vampires? May I recommend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firebite

Firebite

Firebite is an Australian drama/horror television series featuring vampires created by Warwick Thornton and Brendan Fletcher. A co-production between See-Saw Films and AMC Studios, the series premiered on AMC+ on 16 December 2021 and ran for 8 episodes until 3 February 2022. It stars Rob Collins, Shantae Barnes-Cowan, Yael Stone, and Callan Mu...

bleak saffron
#

To answer the question, yes it's available to stream through SBS on Demand Within Australia.

Firebite

In the South Australian desert, two Indigenous Australian hunters seek to eradicate the last colony of vampires in the country.

karmic steeple
#

Also now that Ive had time to digest - its now clear that Jordan was in fact intending to subvert Knives’s goals during Elysium because she wants him to leave. Is that temporary so she can smuggle out her daughter without his knowledge to save her own skin or is there an actual fracture between her and Knives?

scarlet sky
#

It's absolutely to do with her daughter. She embraced her without the Rite of Progeny. That's a big no no.

karmic steeple
#

Right - but is this a “I need him gone temporarily” or a “I need him gone permanently” situation.

honest imp
#

The more permanently the better.

scarlet sky
#

Likely a return to their previous status quo of "Shows up occassionally for a weekend of torrid lovemaking and then gone for months/years"

honest imp
#

Knives is like a Grand Enforcer of the Camarilla, a Darth Vader-y judge, jury, and executioner.

#

So Jo needs either a 100% solid cover for her daughter's embrace while Knives is far far away, or for Knives to never find out about Danielle. Or he is likely to go after Jo for breaking one of the biggest rules around - not to mention his trust.

bleak saffron
#

Jordan's daughter is already off Island, Monica got her out, where....? Jacob knows.

scarlet sky
#

Or she's still on the island under an assumed identity

vernal blaze
#

is the granting of the right of progeny normally a really public thing? So Knives can't disappear and Jordan can then go "oh yeah, he said i could do it ages ago and never mentioned it to anyone"

somber echo
#

Go team DanClaire

scarlet sky
#

If I were Jo, I might have blamed Danielle's embrace on Chainz and hope and pray nobody does any Tremere Bullshit to call her on it.

honest imp
#

I don't know if it has to be public, but it has to come from a Prince, basically. So that's a big paper trail that could become easily unraveled.

karmic steeple
scarlet sky
#

Theoretically, could she use her Masque boon to get it?

#

There's no confirmation that Grace is Danielle, though it's a popular theory

honest imp
#

I assume from Knives not immediately prompting her about the boon, that no it wouldn't be enough. At least under present circumstances.

#

Though it could also be that because of their relationship, Knives wants/expects to be the one to grant Jo that right - which further makes things more difficult.

gentle oracle
bleak saffron
#

Yeah I'm sure Jordan will be thrilled that Oliver has become really chummy over a shared shop-work interest.

#

(If it does turn out to be correct)

scarlet sky
#

I suspect Knives likely wouldn't give Jo the Rite anyway. It's just a tempting lure to manipulate her

honest imp
#

The other complication is that I think in a traditional Camarilla court, a new Kindred would be expected to be presented at court and introduced to the community.

gentle oracle
honest imp
#

Which makes it that much harder to say "oh I got approval and just didn't make a big deal about it", and a tricky situation if Danielle doesn't appear to be newly embraced.

scarlet sky
#

Can people tell how long someone's been embraced?

tardy portal
honest imp
#

I don't know if there's a specific power to let you know how old one is, but a high enough insight check could tell you a lot about a person.

scarlet sky
#

I assume a Tremere could do some blood magic to figure it out, but I'm pretty sure Jo doesn't have to worry about Silas doing that

#

Also, I'm willing to bet that Silas was sent to set up a Chantry as a backup in case Vancouver became Cam territory

tardy portal
#

That makes so much sense!

karmic steeple
scarlet sky
#

I mean, they've successfully stopped Vancouver flipping, for now. So Theo and the rest of the Vancouver Chantry don't have a pressing need to flee, yet.

karmic steeple
#

Except for the fact that a lot of it is destroyed by green fire and normal fire

scarlet sky
#

That's fixable.

#

Property damage is not a reason to risk Knives

karmic steeple
#

They were just attacked in their chantry and there are sigils marked which were used as an attempt on Theo’s life. The Chantry may be rebuilt eventually, but they may need a temporary place in the interim

scarlet sky
#

I'd still say it's unlikely they'd get to go to VI while that happens

spice monolith
#

at the very least all those burnt books mean that Theo's chantry likely lost a lot of occult lore

tardy portal
#

"to risk Knives" in the sense of doing things the Camarilla don't like under an Archons nose?

scarlet sky
#

In the sense that Knives A) very explicitly isn't letting people into VI, and B) seems to have a particularly intense dislike of the Tremere. If the Tremere try and come across to VI after being told no, Knives is not gonna be nice about it

dark oracle
#

And it is breaching one of the traditions (domain, i think?) And knives as an archon can potentially enforce the traditions aggressively.

honest imp
#

It's a bit of a grey area at the moment, as no one has claimed domain over the whole of the island yet.

#

But going against an Archon saying "keep away" is opening up a big ol' can of political worms.

granite wasp
#

Also if she gets right of progeny will anyone check to see how old Danielle is to make sure the embrace took place after the right was given?

granite wasp
swift karma
#

Like, say Masque or Knives figures it out, they could publically pretend to not know, and have something over Jo

#

Though it would be a risk - If it got out, they'd probably be forced to do something or be seen as not upholding the traditions, making them seem weak, or bringing the wrath of the Council

karmic steeple
#

I dont think anyone would have to inspect to try to figure it out - one bad social combat in court and danielle could just let it slip accidentally

scarlet sky
#

Enough successes on a Blood Walk can tell when someone was embraced. We saw that with Silas and T-Buck. But performing Blood Walk on an unconsenting Kindred seems like it'd be a bit of a no no. Silas wouldn't do it unless he was straight up forced to, and even then he might choose to lie anyway out of spite for being forced to do it.

scarlet sky
#

It's just occurred to me: Why is Jessica on the Island? Isn't it weird that the Childe of a Primogen of an Independent city is alone, in a different, unclaimed city that is nominally under Camerilla control? For Silas it makes sense since he was sent to establish a Chantry. He's a trusted, capable Kindred who's been one long enough that he can hand things himself. But Jess, while older than Oliver in terms of being Embraced, is still young enough that Jo was assigned to watch her and teach her. Jess had no role on the island until she was deputized by Quinn. If Tripothy is so enamoured by her as to cause the scene he did, why would he leave her alone on the Island?

swift karma
#

Jessica had time to prepare to be embraced, so they had some kind of relationship - Could just have been Tripathy was obsessed with her art/writing when she visited Vancouver or something

#

Tripathy doesn't seem the type to sire... strategically

scarlet sky
#

Sure, but it's still deeply weird that she was left on the island.

swift karma
#

"Victoria is where I am most inspired"

#

Tripathy, meanwhile, has responsibilities in Vancouver

scarlet sky
#

Responsibilities he can abandon on a whim when he feels slighted.

#

Being in the Island away from Tripothy absolutely suits Jessica. He can't use any kind of position of power like his status as Primogen to force her to do stuff because she's not a citizen of his territory.

#

Tripothy has some pretty clear emotional attachment issues with his Childer. So the fact that he has one in a territory that is not his own is incredibly odd to me.

karmic steeple
scarlet sky
#

That's a good point

swift karma
#

Actually do we know he has any other childer?
I assumed the other Harpies were, but actually, I don't know

scarlet sky
#

I also assumed the Harpies were.

#

It's likey mentioned in episode 5 when Jacob talks about all the Kindred at the party and their connection to one another in their own clan

swift karma
#

The Ventrue all 100% were, but that's cause they do "Name, child of Name"
But the others weren't specified

scarlet sky
#

Pretty sure there Sherrif's were as well

stuck ocean
#

The Harpies are not the childer of Tripothy

spice monolith
#

but yeah, if it got out that a Prince figure knew about it and did nothing, that is a pretty big stain on their legitimacy

#

probably followed by the Primogen backing a suitable replacement

#

the Progeny tends to be a very strictly-enforced Tradition, especially in this day and age of living in the shadow of the Second Inquisition

#

and the penalty for breaking it tends to be the Final Death of both Sire and Childe

#

Also at this point Jo's kind of committed with Monica anyway, since life boons aren't something you just give out casually
So even if she were to be granted the Right of Progeny tomorrow, she's already a bit too deep to pivot

tall lodge
#

If she pulled it off, Danielle might get to live under her actual name though

neat kestrel
#

It's tricky because granting the right of Progeny isn't always super public, but their introduction to Court is. If Jo were Ventrue then a period of Agoge might be expected before they were introduced to Court, so as not to embarrass them Sire and Clan, and sometimes other vampires will mimic something similar but less extreme so as not to risk their standing in Court with an unruly Childer.

So basically the Prince could extract a Boon to lie and say they granted the right earlier, and the Childe was only just introduced (probably another Life Boon, yay?) but I'm not sure that as a fairly typical hot blooded Brujah anyone would believe that of Jo, especially after she's asked influential members of the Vancouver Court how to earn the right after they'd be claiming it was granted

spice monolith
#

I mean Jo is, at least publicly, a Camarilla loyalist, so her observing the Agoge wouldn't be that far fetched

#

The second half of that? Yeah, no, Jurgen could probably very easily see through that lie

neat kestrel
#

Sure, just that for Ventrue the Agoge can last up to a decade (got to make sure your new Childe is sufficiently 'like that'). For other clans it's unlikely to be more than a few weeks, but for a Brujah, even as restrained as Jo? You have to expect that she'd be showing off her Childe as soon as possible out of sheer pride

spice monolith
#

I mean, once a Childe gets presented to the court, they stop being their Sire's responsibility and become their own, so even proud as she is, Jo would have a reason to not present her to the court immediately

small cosmos
spice monolith
#

#NotSponsored

neat kestrel
#

I mean anyone who enjoys either CYOA or VtM should play Night Road

spice monolith
#

It is pretty fun

neat kestrel
#

If you enjoy both, you need to go back in time and have already played it /lh

tardy portal
#

takes notes

mighty laurel
#

Well, demo installed

granite wasp
spice monolith
#

Welcome to the Camarilla

neat kestrel
#

Honestly, no? Now I've seen both Sire and Childe locked in a "tanning booth" (a room with a skylight) to meet the sunrise

spice monolith
#

That's still final death

neat kestrel
#

Indeed, but forcing Sire to eat Childe is an extreme I haven't seen, and feels a bit "edge for the sake of edge" to me

past tangle
#

Depends on the Prince (i.e. the Storyteller)

neat kestrel
#

Yeah, it just feels worth pointing out because I've seen a lot of people put off by the "pizza wheel" reputation of parts of oWoD (all edge, no point)

grand lodge
#

While I don't think Jacob is the type to put needless gore purely for shock value, VtM does seem like a setting that would attract the... yeah, that.

I think it just comes with the territory when you're discussing vampires, and other monsters

#

Specifically, being one of the monsters

neat kestrel
#

Yeah I don't see it from Jacob

#

I'd mostly expect it from the people who object to Sabbat not being a playable faction in V5

grand lodge
#

Is there more overtly objectionable reasons to not like the sabbat other than being a doomsday cult/terrorists?

neat kestrel
#

For me VtM is at its best when it's using vampirism to explore humanity, and it turns out the folks behind V5 agree

#

Sabbat on the other hand are about rejecting that entirely, so they don't fit the themes

#

Like, you can absolutely play a doomsday cultist or a terrorist in V5, but you have to explore what that means within a framework of Humanity

past tangle
#

The Sabbat, at least in oWoD, were real big on the "We're monsters, so why behave like humans?" see humans as cattle to be raised only for food and in general performed tasks to just be wicked. Think of the vampires in Near Dark or Lost Boys

neat kestrel
#

They also don't seek to suppress their Beast but instead work in harmony with it, considering it a boon, not a curse. There's no mechanics for it in V5, but in oWoD they would follow Paths rather than Humanity to hold off Wightdom, which would generally just consist of following rules that justify doing horrendous stuff

past tangle
#

Now. Exploring an immortal existence of not being human -can- be cool.
But so many people just played it up as splatterpunk and be wicked without consequence

neat kestrel
#

Yeah, I think most of why that happened was because the system wasn't good at it. There's a reason why people joke about The Path of What I Was Going to Do Anyway

spice monolith
#

Yeah, the Paths were sadly just generally edgy

#

Except maybe Honorable Accord? But that's an exception and not the rule

neat kestrel
#

I guess to drag things back to NaDtD I want to point out that what makes the Coterie so compelling is how relatable their motivations are and how they seek to stay true to those in spite of what their vampiric nature forces them to do, and also in spite of the abilities they have to just take the easy way out of difficult quandaries. We might have seen even more of it if Stains had been used more liberally, but the cast have kinda leant into that side of the experience anyway

mighty laurel
#

ok, I'm done with the demo. And now I feel like I have Hunger 4 for more

tardy portal
neat kestrel
#

But Jo didn't eat Danielle? The Thinblood burglar did. She was planning to, but only when given permission, as a way to let them both live forever

#

Nope that's a faulty memory

#

Yeah her Beast made her didn't it?

#

I think I didn't link it up though as Danielle is her daughter

tardy portal
#

Yep. The burglar was no thin blood, I think. Also he was out of commission when Danielle entered the scene.

neat kestrel
#

Oh right, just a mortal burglar

granite wasp
granite wasp
untold meteor
granite wasp
#

Oh I see the correction

granite wasp
scarlet sky
#

Was it a burgler? I assumed it was Danielle's boyfriend?

granite wasp
#

Which I think wouldn’t stain anyone in the party as it’s arguably self defense
Or at least defense of the haven

granite wasp
onyx totem
#

the short version of events was that Jo narrowly avoided a drug-induced frenzy when she saw the burglar, dealt with him, and then seeing Danielle immediately afterwards was enough to tip her over the edge, "the red mist descended", and when she came to.... yeah.

#

but it seems to have just been a tremendously bad coincidence that they both happened to be there

granite wasp
#

Were the session 5 stains from that embrace?
I don’t remember anything else stain worthy for Jordan

scarlet sky
#

You'd think Marge would be decent home security

granite wasp
#

Blood sorcery battle and Silas just used a 1911
Is Silas secretly an American

scarlet sky
#

No, he's just read The Dresden Files

somber echo
#

"I cast GUN"

vernal blaze
#

Canadians have guns, you know

somber echo
#

But do they have wizards?

granite wasp
vernal blaze
#

yes?

granite wasp
#

And the 1911 is a classically American gun

vernal blaze
#

lots of urban canadians own guns

#

also, these people murder other people occasionally, they probably aren't worried about gun control laws

granite wasp
granite wasp
# somber echo "I cast GUN"

It kind of is like wizardry
You create a powder, put it in a brass shell topped with a copper jacketed lead topper, handloading is alchemy

scarlet sky
#

If Youtube Shorts have taught me anything, it's in fact that Fireball is just a firework

spice monolith
granite wasp
#

Just one podcast I listened to I think it was a Tremere doing that in their chantry so it was Tremere internal enforcers

neat kestrel
#

"hey, you broke a major Tradition, your punishment is to break our most major Tradition" doesn't seem very likely, even for feudalists

spice monolith
neat kestrel
#

Now as an internal Tremere thing, maybe but still a stretch to justify it as anything other than needless edge

granite wasp
#

I did see one where a minor punishment was a vampire getting their hand chopped off
I mean it grows back so that makes sense as a temporary punishment

neat kestrel
#

It might help to consider it as cannibalism++

granite wasp
#

Yeah because it’s not just killing them it’s taking their soul

#

So they don’t go to wherever souls go in the WoD after they die

spice monolith
#

hell if anyone knows THAT

granite wasp
neat kestrel
#

Like, consider a mobster who vouched for a rat - sure you kill them and the rat, you don't make them eat the rat

granite wasp
#

Some maybe even heaven
Probably not any kindred though

neat kestrel
spice monolith
#

ehhh, that way lies Golconda talk and that's about as contrived as VtM gets

neat kestrel
#

Golconda is a Post-it with "plot device, don't examine" scrawled upon it

granite wasp
#

I thought Hecata could get ghosts in the middle realms not the ones truly in the afterlife (if there is one in WoD)

spice monolith
# neat kestrel Maybe some Hecata do?

I mean, iirc the Giovanni had a way to guarantee a person become a wraith when they die
Kindred Generally™️ don't, iirc the Wraith corebook said they very rarely do, but it has been known to happen

neat kestrel
#

Yeah

granite wasp
spice monolith
neat kestrel
#

I mean Uncle Augy might know, just he's not going to be able to tell anyone

granite wasp
#

So the wraiths may have accidentally screwed people who don’t become wraiths (people who die without major loose ends) out of an afterlife?

neat kestrel
#

We should probably -> #roleplay

spice monolith
#

good shout

stuck ocean
stuck ocean
gloomy coyote
#

You have all done an incredible job of defying any sort of pull towards a descent into mindless edge and vice. There's not much greater evidence of that than taking a character who was met running a vampire drug lab and... turning him into someone who's into Gilmore Girls.

granite wasp
#

I mean he’s still running the drug lab but he still has a life outside that

granite wasp
gloomy coyote
#

I'm sure a lot of other campaigns would have, say, put a spotlight along the way on the concept of blood dolls, I think once this entire campaign have they gotten any sort of real mention beyond 'yeah they're just here if you want to bring your hunger counter down'.

granite wasp
#

The horror of mundane horror

karmic steeple
#

And this campaign over the three seasons has done a great job at showing the struggles of trying to remain good and how there can be consequences even on a smaller scale that can be nonetheless full of drama and morality and intrigue without resorting to the full edginess of darkness

whole mirage
#

I think it's worth pointing out that Silas wasn't raised in a city. He's a res kid. Also the world of darkness is very different than the world we live in -- it's significantly more violent. Silas carries a gun because he's gone hunting since he was a child, probably got a 22 for his ninth birthday, and needs to be able to defend himself without leaning on blood sorcery.

spice monolith
#

yeah, I feel like that aspect of WoD kinda got glossed over in the 5th edition?

#

of just how much darker the world actually is, I mean

gloomy coyote
#

Yeah Victoria turned out to maybe not be the greatest example of making it darker because to set up for vampires they got 24-hour ferries and an IKEA.

#

Also Goldstream got upgraded from provincial park to national

neat kestrel
#

Generally there's more violent crime, more corruption, more police militarisation

gloomy coyote
#

But, like, 'beast I am lest beast I become' explicitly does not read to me as 'no rules no pants'. There's a state you're explicitly in that credo trying to AVOID reaching. There are things you're going to need to come to terms with doing, particularly in a setting where things are just naturally a bit more grim... but taking a flying leap off the slippery slope because edgy is just... letting the beast win without a fight far as I'm concerned. It's supposed to be a struggle.

#

It's a very notable penalty in the guidebook for going wight: you lose your character, it becomes the Storyteller's character now.

honest imp
granite wasp
#

I got a pellet rifle at 8

#

I was mostly memeing I understand the concept of needing to know how to defend yourself with different tools

neat kestrel
#

It feels worth pointing out that none of our Coterie are good people. They're trying to be, and that's what's interesting. Like Silas is the closest and he routinely mind controls people into forgetting his trespasses against them

gloomy coyote
#

Technically Oliver is the closest, he is literally one higher humanity than the others.

#

But yeah, the baseline of vampire is 'you feed on the blood of others to survive'. Oliver routinely kills animals to get his blood and for him this is the moral option knowing it's not as nourishing to him as human blood. Jo has a resume of violence. Jess heard T-Buck mention a neighbor who responded to a breakup where the other one took the dogs by burning that person's house down and Jess' response was 'Good for her!'

gray summit
elfin ridge
gloomy coyote
#

IIRC everyone was at 7 but Oliver, who started at 8

#

And 7 is meant as the Vampire baseline

elfin ridge
#

Nope. Jordan was 7 and everyone else started at 8.

#

Jessica’s humanity has been at 8 the entire chronicle.

#

But even so. That humanity tracker doesn’t make us good people.

gloomy coyote
#

Huh. Didn't know Silas and Jess were laying 8. The way I'd read it from the rulebook it says the general intent is 7 (which is meant to be 'roughly analogous to normal human morality') unless you're a really fresh embrace in which case 8 is more available.

spice monolith
#

I like to think of Humanity more as "how good you are at blending in with humans" rather than a good/bad guy meter

spice monolith
#

but also humanity has always been kinda arbitrary when someone like a merciless vampire hunter is at 8, while being just as brutal and monstrous as your average vampire

gloomy coyote
#

9 and especially 10 read on the tracker as 'good even by human standards' and it's really hard to keep those levels.

#

For 10 'impure thoughts' qualifies as a stain

spice monolith
#

yeah but 10 also insituates you can lose it by thoughtcrime whichis :/

#

not great tbh

gloomy coyote
#

Basically portrays keeping the beast away as a full-time, 24/7 job

spice monolith
#

I mean, the beast isn't exactly proactive every waking moment

#

and like, I'd say selfish/impure thoughts are very human

karmic steeple
gloomy coyote
#

Watching Quinn do the interrogation really woke him up. 'Ohhhhhh, you guys are vampires. ...oh, that's bad, I should do something about that.'

#

Sometimes it takes a student more time than others to understand the lesson plan but one day it just clicks.

spice monolith
#

which is funny that he then decided to go to Monica

#

Giovanni are many things, but paragons of humanity isn't really one of them

gloomy coyote
#

Really a matter of panic I think. He wanted self-defense classes now and who is the least objectionable person I have immediate access to in order to get them... you, hi there

#

I have to dig up bodies? Sure, fine, I will pay that cost

spice monolith
#

just don't ask what the bodies are for :)

fresh pewter
#

Also kind of feels like Oliver has reached a critical mass of info where he feels like he can start making decisions about the rest of his... life? unlife? afterdeath?

karmic steeple
spice monolith
#

I am sure she will be thrilled if she hears about that

#

or rather when

karmic steeple
#

Since Oliver used the boon, I think Masque is gonna keep that one secret

swift karma
proud haven
#

Well, next episode, they are back on the island and I'm sure everything will be fine...

karmic steeple
proud haven
#

Roll to see if you can approach the fire

karmic steeple
#

Ted’s gonna be renamed to Lars

grand lodge
#

Thankfully, Jacob didn't name any of the primogens Lars Gerhart. :p

granite wasp
honest imp
#

Not unsurprising that someone like Oliver learns a lot better from hands-on experience than being lectured at.

karmic steeple
#

SbN instinctively understood this

proud haven
#

We're going to get back to the island to find it depopulated of Thinbloods because SbN was "being attacked" 😉

somber echo
#

Just a pile of bodies in Oliver's back yard

karmic steeple
#

SbN gets promoted by the Cam to Scourge by Night

spice monolith
#

SbN is strong hunter 😌

granite wasp
#

Is there a name for the power where you can't talk about the thing and instead it sounds like you ranting about something nobody cares about hearing?

karmic steeple
#

With SbN getting supernatural strength from drinking Oliver’s blood, how many thinbloods would SbN have to eat in order to take on a lupine without immediately getting got?

proud haven
granite wasp
#

To take on lupines you can't just use regular vampire powers you need to be an old vampire or have weapons in the light antitank range at minimum

proud haven
#

having a van means you might get away from lupines

spice monolith
#

so it's kinda that but modified?

somber echo
#

"The antagonist is powerful and doesn't have to follow the rules in the book"

spice monolith
#

or that

#

that is a good rule of thumb too

granite wasp
dark oracle
spice monolith
#

I could see that, yeah

dark oracle
#

(which would bend back towards the "powerful malk" theory)

somber echo
#

I had forgotten all about the Marge Bloodwalk. Recently went through that rewatching with my wife - was good to review that again re: Mary

#

Or what did she call herself? Calliope

proud haven
#

Something to muse on

gentle oracle
# granite wasp I like to see the different powers really old entities can have as examples of p...

Older editions did have level 6-9 powers, like the ones listed on this wiki page: https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Dementation_(VTM) (dementation is part of dominate in V5), although even in those editions level 10 was just "plot device"

White Wolf Wiki
Dementation (VTM)

Dementation is a Discipline widely known as the hallmark of the Malkavians. Dementation draws on the vampire's own insanity and uses it to achieve profound insights or inflict madness upon others...

granite wasp
#

And Level 10 is antediluvian exclusive

honest imp
#

it's just explicitly putting in that antediluvians are not bound by any mechanics or rules.

#

compared to Methuselah, who are technically bound by some rules, but only by the barest thread.

fluid folio
shy badge
#

I mean, generally Methuselahs only get one Master action, refreshing at the start of their turn.

granite wasp
#

By the Bible narrative Methuselah the man was, by definition, an antediluvian

swift karma
#

I'm re-listening to ep6 again, and that finale obviously deserved the attention it got, but wow, so much other political stuff happened at that party that I'd forgotten about

karmic steeple
#

Yup. Theres a lot of things that are on fire right now, not just the Chantry

granite wasp
#

The whiskey is gone

#

That’s the true tragedy

proud haven
neat kestrel
#

So in theory embracing Danielle would be 5 Stains, 2 for the Embrace, 3 for destroying a Touchstone. Some of those may have been mitigated by Convictions

Screenshot_20241214-072621.png
swift karma
#

I guess arguably she... undestroyed it? But certainly damaged.

neat kestrel
#

A Touchstone must be a Mortal (human)

tall lodge
#

I think given that Jo's goal was this just... less traumatically and with permission that could be a mitigation

neat kestrel
#

Does anyone remember Jo's convictions and which one was tied to her daughter?

#

Or am I going to need to rewatch the original S0 again?

eternal bane
#

Neither were tied to Danielle

#

Unless they were changed off screen

#

finish your tasks was assigned to an old Girlguide Den Mother, Old Flo

always look for an advantage was tied to her ex husband Hank Hinkleman

proud haven
#

pity she didn't have ||Change your daugther's name to Grace|| 😉

neat kestrel
#

Ah, if Danielle wasn't a Touchstone that avoids 3 of them

eternal bane
#

Jacob mentioned she had three stains when she made her remorse roll iirc

#

So Embrace Mortal, and probably taking one off the life boon?

neat kestrel
#

And finish your tasks could have mitigated 1 for the Embrace, opening space for other Stains. I can't remember the Chronicle Tenets but I'd be surprised if at least one wasn't broken

scarlet sky
#

It could be argued that embracing Danielle is following Finish Your Tasks, since it was very much Jo's motivation the entire time

spice monolith
#

I mean that whole remorse roll was done a little weirdly so 🤷‍♀️

#

sometimes rules just cede the primacy to telling the story

proud haven
#

Jo did nothing wrong!

swift karma
#

That's really the thing they did "wrong" (not really, it's not our game, it's theirs, and it's an entertainment product)
If you pass your humanity check it means you did do something wrong, and you feel really bad about it, which means you're still (kinda) human.
The "I feel completely justified in my actions" result would be failing, and becoming more monstrous

spice monolith
#

personally I think it's less whether it was justified or not and more about whether you cared that you did it

#

but that's just a personal interpretation

swift karma
#

No, I agree, it's the "I feel ..." part that's important

sudden gate
#

Pretty sure that was also to make it so the other players didn't get hints on what Jo did. Because everything suggests they weren't present.

swift karma
#

I'm pretty sure everyone was there for the Memoriums, even if not on camera - that just seems to be how they film them

spice monolith
#

given how the others were playing NPCs in both Jessica's and Silas' memorias, that seems likely

onyx totem
#

I figured that the ones where other players didn't feature, they were deliberately out of the room
like there would have been an "Oh, that" when Jo's remorse check came up instead of "is there anything you'd like to share with the group" reaction

#

Also the chair where Cam would normally be sitting is visibly empty in Jo's memoriam

neat kestrel
#

Yeah, I don't get the impression the crew knew what was in Jo/Cori's memorandum until after filming

#

They may find out details over the remainder of the Chronicle, but not have the full picture until the end

#

And yeah I always play it as passing the Remorse roll means you do feel remorse, retain connection to your Convictions and therefore Humanity, while failing it had you drift further away, losing another piece of your Humanity. I've seen other tables do it differently though before

fluid folio
#

Think this highlights an interesting naming inconsistency. Passing a wits check means you are witty in that moment, but passing a rouse check means you do not rouse the beast and get hungrier. So I can see how the table would interpret succeeding on a remorse check = you are not remorseful if this is their first encounter with it.

#

Also their table, their interpretation, their story, etc.

neat kestrel
#

Also if you fill all your unmarked Humanity you should be impaired until you do the remorse roll?

tall lodge
#

I know nothing about vtm but I'd house rule it as the remorse reaction that matches your humanity. For Jo that's she did nothing wrong because it's been her human emotions driving her to have Danielle embraced. But for another situation or character it would be having that remorse

spice monolith
#

Either if you fill up all the unmarked boxes, or go over, I don't remember a 100%

#

just checked, you suffer impairment if you have more stains than there are unfilled boxes on the tracker

#

and you take Aggravated Willpower damage for every point that goes over the number of empty boxes

neat kestrel
spice monolith
#

damn, ok Imparement via stain is actually the worst kind
because if you fill Health with Superficial Damage, you get -2 to all physical dice pools
if you fill Willpower with Superficial Damage, you get -2 to Social and Mental dice pools
and Impairment by stains, you get -2 to all dice pools

stuck ocean
digital cliff
#

that's exciting

stuck ocean
#

As for the remorse roll, story takes primacy and fit in with how the player wanted to play the character.

Jo does experience remorse, hopefully that's been shown, but she is trying not to feel it. I interpreted in the moment with Cori as a disassociation state, where the trauma of the moment sunk the guilt right down.

All of the "I did nothing wrong." table talk was bits.

spice kiln
#

To a previous point: One thing I'm very much enjoying about consuming this campaign is how it gets across the sense of cynicism if not futility of trying to organize any type of society for a group of people who are all intrinsically capable of blowing up like a bomb at any time. Something I'm thinking more and more about as this season goes along. The Camarilla we've seen are kinda overtly corrupt institutionally, meanwhile all the other factions seem to more or less not have an organized plan for survival. I do appreciate it having got this across without being overly edgy.

swift karma
onyx totem
#

as a non-vampire person, would it be a reasonable read of the remorse check mechanic that it's more kind of "does the beast manage to leverage your remorse (or lack thereof) over what you did as a moment of weakness in a we're not so different you and I kind of a way, in order to take further control" rather than a simple "do you feel bad or not"?

#

that at least feels like a more intuitive way for it to work, but I don't know if it's supported by the rules as written

neat kestrel
#

Here's what the book says

Screenshot_20241214-200516.png Screenshot_20241214-200540.png
proud haven
#

It was a bit because no-one was believing Jo would make the roll, and yet!

spice monolith
#

you always get 1 dice, so there's always a chance

obtuse grove
spice monolith
#

and we all know how good Brujah are at dealing with their emotions :)

honest imp
swift karma
karmic steeple
#

Yeah thats totally whats gonna happen when Jo gets back to the island. Its not like there are gonna be high stress situations or the first bestial of the seasoneverything is gonna be fine.

gloomy coyote
#

A real Raven-in-Teen-Titans situation

#

the good teen titans not the memefest