#Another Vessel idea cause why not

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rose knoll
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The base idea that came to mind was a combination magic/mana.

Main gimic of them would be that its towers need mana to function strongly, and mana held as an additional resource and created by the utility tower.
Each spell would have its own cooldown, maybe a small thing above the tower for its spells (could just be a 2 pips for T-2 upgrade spell, 3 for T-3 and its colour based on the spell you upgraded).
Some spells would also be active spells that cannot be cast unless the player interacts.

Its worth noting my original idea would be that when you upgrade towers, they don't loose access to spells previously upgraded into. However that idea could be changed depending on the vision of the game.

4 towers: 1 eco (always) 2 damaging and 1 utility tower

Starting in a specific order:
The utility tower would be a bowl (like the top of a bird water pedestal) that would collect mana over time, the tower would have a range that increases on upgrade. Its upgrades would be based on how it gains mana, capacity and bonus effects.
Examples: T-2 upgrades of gain more mana when a nearby ore is mined, gain flat mana on enemy death, gain mana on proximity to enemy basin.
T-4 for every 10 mana gained by this tower, give a nearby tower a free 'cast'.

First offensive tower could be a small rock/magic themed tower that as it upgrades gains a rune type feel, glowly lines etc. The tower would start with a slow arcane blast it fires (give it a tiny aoe with a limit of hitting only like 3 units), all of its upgrades would give 'spells' that consume mana to have powerful effects, thinking fireball, ice lance. Steriotype spells. Some upgrades could buff its basic attack, but overall its based around offensive spells.
T-2 could give a frost lance, firebolt or a magic missile, T-3 could be more powerful ones like rock throw, waterstream, T-4 iconic spells like fireball, earthquake (aoe).

Second offensive tower could be a kind of 'magic conduit'. Its first effect would be to cast an aoe that hits the ground and leaves a persistant slow (low damage). This would be the main way of stopping enemies from reaching the basin as no walls. Its upgrades focused around debuff spells like poison, enemies taking more damage, T-2 could be a roots spell that gives a small stun on enemies in it/walking into it. T-3 could be a small ice wall that has like 50 hp? T-4 could be to teleport group of enemies back to their basin.

Finally the eco tower is harder to say its looks, somebody gave me an idea of a magic tree which I think is good. But the idea of using mana to cast utility spells that buff mining seems cool. Alongside a few ways of gaining mana from T-3 or T-4 onwards.

Potential for some cool T-4 and T-5 using mana, obviously discussion welcome!!

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@primal galleon any thoughts too?

stray shale
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Hmmm this does feel alot like sno sno

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The defense is pretty interesting too, it's like a nerfed true wall of sort

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Might be weaker towards javelins

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Hmmmmmmmm

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Very cool vessel idea!

rose knoll
rose knoll
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especially considering its 'sort of' like a combination of checkpoints and sno sno's sno

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but I feel a similarity is fine as long as the effects are very different

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slow casting spells, with their own cooldowns seems really fun

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especially as I was thinking that when u upgrade a tower to unlock a new spell, previous ones don't go away

rose knoll
rose knoll
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as logic can kind of be ignored

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OOOH, another thing could be the ability to summon a golem on the second offense tower, it would draw enemy aggro, attack back slowly (aoe) and have a medium % resist

primal galleon
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I only read half of the text this is just a quick thinking i will read rest at home later

rose knoll
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spells are automatic is the idea, but cannot cast (or cast with reduced effects) when not enough mana

rose knoll
primal galleon
rose knoll
primal galleon
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But i will elaborate further (later)

primal galleon
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okay it almost just seems like a sno sno with boxes that are producing sno were ever not bound by recources

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i would give him a lot of actives like the snoblaster 7e and boutmans rally and buster dash (tell me if i missed one) with very strong and expensive turrets (t5 being almost an insta win). Making him focus on quality instead of quantity, but with the active playstyle of his abilitys that would be balanced (losing by having a too short attention span).

rose knoll
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Who says spells need to be active, but yes I agree some active ones could be cool

primal galleon
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and flashy ones i want him to just go

mental pine
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rip units

rose knoll
mental pine
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none of the towers show anything unit-based if im reading correctly

rose knoll
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I literally mentioned a summonable golem

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not in the main post

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butbyeah

coarse jasper
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ig they just glance over and didnt reach full yet

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im a bit confussing about the econ and mana thing tho

rose knoll
coarse jasper
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how the ultil gain mana when its not the thing doing econ (like SnoSno gain snow from Snobox which also their econ)

coarse jasper
rose knoll
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imagine checkpoint style, just gens over time

rose knoll
mental pine
rose knoll
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the main gimmick of the character would be that towers gain spells that consume mana

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and that any upgrades don't negate previous spells

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other than maybe a t-5

rose knoll
mental pine
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rip

rose knoll
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loads of cool interactions

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one of the ideas I had for the util tower was a 'gain mana from nearby enemy deaths' as a t-4

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the eco im not sure on

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but there are a few cool options

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a spell on it could give bounties to nearby enemies that either are +1 +1 +1 aura or more

warm sail
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no units vessel: hell yes
no walls vessel: hell yes

should make mana be a tower stat, and maaaaybe make enemies who attack towers with mana lose their mana? could be an upgrade (omori sad effect)

alsoo there's the thing with the conduit, which sounds nice (heater 3.0) but you gotta make it in a proper way so it's fun using it (have smth creative, but being able to connect conduits to make a mana conductor alr seems pretty fun)

if you wanna make mana tower cool, I suggest making it work only when next to an ore, and if further from it, it has to throw mana balls to hit the ore. The towers next to the ore give mana, which is your main/only source of mana (you should def add an upgrade that gives mana to conductors when an enemy is killed) (or give the basin the power to produce mana?)

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also I'm gonna love this vessel if it looks cool (it HAS to look cool) and if the offensive tower has a lot of options of casting (a vessel more manual than buster)

rose knoll
warm sail
rose knoll
rose knoll
warm sail
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also it needs to work only on melee range, since this would create a difference between this and sno sno

rose knoll
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like from air, but alternate sources (ore, enemy death) are not reduced

warm sail
rose knoll
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minimum range of mana collection on tower

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making you have to place far away

rose knoll
warm sail
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I'd say other way around should make econ tower cast spells (automatically) on the ore

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I mean - from range

rose knoll
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"ancient power" that draws from a friendly or hostile basin for large mana in short radius

rose knoll
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I said that already

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econ tower casting haste spell on itself, spells on ore

warm sail
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I've never seen an econ tower that throws projectiles or other stuff on the ore, would like to see it

rose knoll
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but has a base mining effect

rose knoll
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loads of expression in the idea

warm sail
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cuz buster, snosno and Fie just siphon, smacky and boutman attack it with hands

rose knoll
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its a simple idea, but somebody needed to suggest

rose knoll
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it could just fire magic missles at the ore XD

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and get other spells to mine

warm sail
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the biggest component honestly is how mana is a direct stat, it isn't on the ground like sno (enviorement)

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also what if there'd be a "switch" spell, where the position of the ores gets switched for a period of time

rose knoll
rose knoll
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most spells would be automatic

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but I think a few powerful active ones would be cool

rose knoll
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swapping towers locations could be a very fun T-4 or T-5 active ability

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anyway, yeah ideas open, feedback open

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id love asman to read some of it

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I will edit this at some point

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and write it in detail based on discussion

warm sail
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I just got an idea.

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Advanced upgrades.

rose knoll
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@coarse jasper ur thoughts?

rose knoll
warm sail
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Imagine if, depending on how much mana you have, upgrades change

rose knoll
warm sail
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if you have under 100 mana (random number), you have only two upgrades you can choose. But, if you have over 600 mana, you gain another upgrade you can choose (specific to the tower)

rose knoll
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still, keep things not too complicated

rose knoll
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in which case adding to a pool somewhere could be cool

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effectivly 2 dps towers and 2 eco towers

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one for non aura

warm sail
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and if you have between those, you can choose an empowered version of those two upgrades that were at under 100

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smth random lol

rose knoll
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anyway

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waiting on Hmmmmmmmmmmmm to give his thoughts

warm sail
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similar to how bout raft has no explanation, not until you place 5 of them and summon boutmom

rose knoll
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thats asmans choice

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not mine

warm sail
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right, yeah

coarse jasper
# rose knoll imagine checkpoint style, just gens over time

ok i got an idea now
so the ultil is a magic flame torch stand that can shoot mana ball on a 3x3 zone to give a huge buff to the towers in it but the trade off that some small range around the torch will be cursed and cant place anything on it, and ofc the mana gain slowly by time
the econ will be a mighty tree (maybe as a sprout when first bought then upgrade later on) and it will grow their root to the nearest ore (like Fie silo) and generate econ, when upgrade could boots the ultil tower mana gen speed and maybe could grow root on a tower as extra health / armor
the second offensive tower as i read is a stall / debuff style tower, it could be like a cauldron with tiny witches that brewing posion and throw it at enemies, as your golem summon idea, i love it too but it might be a bit similar to SnoSno Snoble but we could do some tweak so it can be unique

warm sail
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but having mana on upgrade costs would be nice

coarse jasper
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holy lord that took a logn while to think and type lol

warm sail
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also, the vessel should actually be the mana generator. and the vessel should be able to click on towers to send mana

rose knoll
warm sail
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Idk how else mana could work

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unless you want smth else to produce mana

rose knoll
rose knoll
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lol

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1 gains mana

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2 consume

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econ can consume

warm sail
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oh right

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oh then scrap my idea

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make the vessel be able to cast a single spell lol

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smth like teleportation

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costs some mana, but super useful in some cases

rose knoll
rose knoll
coarse jasper
rose knoll
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honestly 2 ideas I had was a small tempory wall, and a magic lance (fires a projectile with inf range that peirces all enemies and does same damage as vessels damage)

rose knoll
rose knoll
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only due to how finicky vessel control currently is

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buuut

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defo 1 spell on vessel

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has to cost mana

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and vessel has to generate small amounts of mana naturally too

rose knoll
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boutman is the vessel defence

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so this shouldn't impede

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I agree with sno sno resource being close too

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hence it going into a pool simular to aura seems good

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not taking away from how sno sno works

warm sail
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boutman cares for no tower*. If you bring 30 boutmen, they will destroy the first waves (or even all waves)

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and boutbro is the one that is the actual vessel

rose knoll
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yes

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I agree

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@mental pine if u got time to scan read, any thoughts?

mental pine
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uh

rose knoll
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msgik

mental pine
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let the vessel store mana by selecting a button like buster dash then depending on how much mana consumed it does x dmg

rose knoll
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yh

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but having it go into a pool and all towers use it when they can for spells

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seems cool

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you need to manage mana that way

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thats the difficulty

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that way you can afford to push power into spells, making them cool and powerful

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without making the vessel op

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yes you can oneshot a maul with a really strong spell, but it consumes tons of mana and if u have not got enough generation u can't cast other spells

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also cooldowns can exsist

mental pine
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any release vessel is goanna be op you cant stop that :3

rose knoll
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but yeah, u like sounds of it? Mana gained then spent on spells with costs and cooldowns

signal egret
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If they add this they should name it Grimblr I think that would be nice

stray shale
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Can I write a fan vessel kit based on this

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I'm starting to see how cool this is 😭

rose knoll
stray shale
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It's not gonna be the same theme but the core mechanic is definitely similar

rose knoll
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ohh

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I meant full mechanicly written out version of this, or a simularly designed ons

stray shale
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ahhh

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yeah it's more like similar designs

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I was intially designing a vessel and then I looked back at this and thought "HEY WAIT IT'S TOTALLY THE SAME THING" so yeah i thought i'd ask yk

rose knoll
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ill be curious to where you take it, I still intend to rewrite this at some point

stray shale
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alr thx!

rose knoll
stray shale
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gotcha

rose knoll
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@stray shale have na update!

stray shale
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ooooo yeah the idea is definitely more well formed now

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econ tower is still goin there

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But the defense is much clearer now

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interesting

warm sail
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imagine if the magic tree would actually bee like bouthouse, one placement and upgrades are high cost

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and the tree in question would consume aura from every ore on the map

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@rose knoll ?

rose knoll
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hmmm, that seems a lil bit weird

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as its nice to be able to split mining where you choose

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every vessel has the ability to do that

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I don't think that implicitly should change unless you can force more on one specific one

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hmmmmmm

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unless the mana generator only worked near ore and its power was based on upgrades on the tree

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nvm this could cook

warm sail
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sooo it can cook?

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that's great

rose knoll
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XD

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the idea

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having mana be generated via ore, and upgrades instead giving additional ways of gaining it

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and

warm sail
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I honestly wanted a special kind of econ that could work from anywhere, but, it can be possible to make it only mine one ore

rose knoll
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those utility towers gaining aura based on the upgrades of the tree

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the only slight issue with that

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is spamming loads of T-1 mana collectors around ores and only upgrading the tree

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as you could have explosive acceleration with that

warm sail
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I see

rose knoll
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anyway, its an okay idea

warm sail
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in this case you can make the tree somewhat more different

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it doesn't need to be able to quickly cast spells and consume the mana instantly

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the only towers that should be able to use mana instantly like this are offensive towers

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also, towers should definitely have an unlimited mana capacity, cuz... I think it'd be easiest for special upgrades to consume mana out of the tower, but it cannot go into debt

rose knoll
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Idk

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its difficult to think of

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how to make it work

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a fun T-5 idea I had for the miner would be an active spell, than you toggle

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that simply consumes a ton of mana, but gives tons of mining rate

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like +3.0 speed

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at least

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(assuming around 0.5 damage)

warm sail
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well in this scenario, the mana consumption should be really really high

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where it easily outpaces the mana production

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one thing I saw interestingly is how sno sno's cannon (snoblaster 5A+) doesn't instantly store all sno, but stores slowly no matter what, which makes any excess sno given be useless

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should you be able to apply something similar? well basically... you can apply a cooldown to this, say around 10-20 seconds or smth

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I'm ngl, T5 upgrades will be most worth it on those tsunami maps, cuz we'll have tons and tons of tides there

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this is also gonna show special powers of diff characters, cuz so far we've been able to only use tier II III and IV upgrades mostly

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but anyway

stray shale
# rose knoll wdym?

Expensive T5 upgrades and alike are only used once or twice with 30 tide. With Tsunami, we could finally use T5 as actual components in our strategies.

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We can use T5 more casually, basically

rose knoll
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ahh, death mark finally useful?

warm sail
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and honestly I'll be pretty dissapointed on how buster will work on tsunami...

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because:

  • nitro dog is USELESS (the dogs with nitro barely do anything cuz dogs and buster aren't fixed)
  • final lap is USELSS (get real)
  • collission course is also USELESS
  • hyper pad is USEful buut after getting one any more of them are USELESS
  • explosion chain thing on pedestal is also kinda useless? maybe it'd actually be good if it gets all buffs (basically: mechanic's friend, support team, and range + attack from rest stop). Why would it be good? because it can deal massive damage if it has lots of enemies, similarly to dogs (but ppl would prefer pedestals)
  • damn. EX is actually good. a bit, too good... this is the one tower that'll be a must get on tsunami, unless asman throws in enough enemies that EX can't handle them all, in which case we get more EX pedestals. It's gonna be fun
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maybe I'm exaggerating, since blue patch buster will not be anywhere near the same as yellow patch buster

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same thing with red patch buster

rose knoll
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@clear egret this is decently complete as an idea to present to you, obviously you would adapt for the vision of the game, look into balance (more than happy to help there ☺️) etc but yeah

rose knoll
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@clear egret manage to have time to check?

clear egret
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magic homies,
pretty neat idea, I like the mixing and matching of spells as a major point.
Depending on how it worked, the resource (mana) can probably act even cooler. I'd probably like to see the resource tower be expanded on to play more with the others two-ways

Early on there is a general idea and vessel concept with magickyy vibes, but I don't think anything specific to this. They also had a alt resource in a way (like most vessels lol)

Good idea!