sk-discussion

[wispy burrow]

Probably buffs to attack

Invincibility mode

Charms

Stuff like that

Maybe you still unlock abilities and you can turn on a more broken one?

Sure!

[radiant wraith]

For personal experience, I played games with sliders or assist mode before and was not bothered by it at all, it didn't change my experience

[nimble radish]

I mean when I was playing hk I was in forgotten crossroads and I immediately though, hmm going to get a double jump

[fleet temple]

alright, yeah I do kinda apologise for that
It's just that everytime I see you, you always seem to be starting some argument

[wispy burrow]

maybe not buuuut

Death Of The Author

I don't think devs should decide the value of their game, and especially not justify locking players off for it. Especially not a game like this with much more value than just the gameplay

[fiery coral]

Devs do have an intended way, yeah; I feel this discussion is more "it'd be nice to have an assist mode" than "TC should have an Assist mode"

[wispy burrow]

Thank You

I don't think SS will be much worse off without an assist mode but it would be nice

[open abyss]

Now I see common sense.

[wispy burrow]

I have friends, as I said earlier, that tried HK but just didn't have the time to Git Gud and experience what they really wanted to

[brittle garnet]

I think death of the author doesn't really apply to games because they aren't pure consumable media, they are interactive systems. Their value is also not relevant to the gameplay, really.

[hazy dome]

Ohhhhhhhh

So time is the essence here

[fiery coral]

I liked how Hades implemented it

[stoic path]

Also, it's a metroidvania game, it's very easy to break a game like HK with cheats. The thing about Celeste is that, it is a platformer and the main mechanic for the game works even in Assist mode.

I don't see anything wrong with an Assist mode but it would be kind of difficult to implement without ruining the experience in HK

[wispy burrow]

turns out adults do not have infinite time

[hazy dome]

Sad truth

[wispy burrow]

Too much to respond to rn tbh, feeling a bit overwhelmed

Might step back, sorry

[fiery coral]

For those who haven't played it, Hades had a God Mode that set Damage Reduction at a starting value of 20%; every time you died with God Mode active, the reduction increased by a further 2%, and this mode could be toggled on and off at any point in the playthrough

[hazy dome]

Im still suck at Hades

[fiery coral]

Have you tried God Mode? I did, and it helped me enjoy and complete the game

[hazy dome]

Im disaster at roguelike/lite games

[fiery coral]

Same!

[hazy dome]

Yea i have

[wispy burrow]

Hades has a god mode?

Might try it ngl. Didn't want to put a lot of time into roguelike stuff

[hazy dome]

I just suck at the genre
I dont know why

[radiant wraith]

I just believe that there is no ideal difficulty, one which each and every player will enjoy most. With some sliders a player may end up adjusting the game to the difficulty they enjoy most.

[hazy dome]

Thats why i cant play Dead Cells

[stoic path]

Eh, it's fine. I understand why you'd want an assist mode in a game. Games are hard, and some of us aren't good at it. We need an assist mode so that people can enjoy the game without wasting much time.

[wispy burrow]

or some people that have disabilities

[split tide]

This is also super true I feel; difficulty is very subjective

[wispy burrow]

that's an important thing in this I keep seeing people not mention

some have issues making big fast inputs over and over due to real disabilities for instance

[brittle garnet]

Risk of Rain 2 doesn't really have an assist or God mode, but it does have difficulty options as well as unlockable "artifacts" which are global run modifiers, most of which are detrimental but some make the game easier.

[split tide]

I'm sure there are people here who consider base HK to be too easy too, and balancing the entire game around people like that with zero accessibility options can lead to some serious issues

[wispy burrow]

I found HK to be well balanced, always took 2-3 lives and then I really understood the boss

[full rune]

It takes a lot of resources

[stoic path]

It's just, some people don't like seeing an assist mode in a game. People who are bad at the game would want to play in assist mode simply because it's an option, and they wouldn't want to use it since it like a 'cheaty' way to play the game, hence they don't play the game at all.

It's one of the criticisms of Celeste, having an assist mode.

[nimble radish]

it's pretty easy to make games harder for yourself

[split tide]

do you mean by adding on an entire new mode, or just an assist mode style thing

[hazy dome]

Thats why i called "try-hard"
The ruiner of any game difficulty

[rapid topaz]

Having 2 monarch wings effects in the air instead of one, with an assist mode, can break the world design by letting the player do "unintended skips" easily.
If TC adds this kind of thing in SS they'd need to change a lot of the world design.

It's like having claws right when you start the game, you go left then Greenpath and the game experience is weird.

[nimble radish]

I don't think movement should be affected

[split tide]

I'm more thinking of just changing nail damage

[nimble radish]

just maybe like "hazard respawn doesn't deal damage" cheat or something

[cerulean sable]

See see what i mean\

[rapid topaz]

Yeah I was redacting for too long, the discussion has changed lol

[cerulean sable]

Literally war has happened

because of the difficulty discussion

[fleet temple]

Personally, I just think that a cheat menu in ss would remove half the entertainment value of the game because, sure some people might be only interested in hk for the exploration, lore and music and not really much the combat but most of the enjoyment from those things come from finally getting past this giant hurdle which makes the rest of it being even more rewarding, if I were making an assist mode, I wouldn't really make a cheat menu, I'd do something more like, weaker ai and more forgiveness in combat rather than a straight up cheat menu
but if TC do make a celeste like assist mode I really wouldn't be against it at all, although I doubt they will but if they do I'd be fine with it

[full rune]

Depends on what you want your assists to be. Takes a lot of time to think about and implement. Most games have a department that will deal with this. Which isn't the case with TC

[wispy burrow]

Hollow Knight

No Charm
Hitless
True Ending
No Nail Upgrade
No Pausing
No Spell
All Boss
No Map
playthrough

[split tide]

since that way people could get through bosses more easily if needed

[radiant wraith]

Wait, for how long has this been going on?

[split tide]

but it wouldn't allow for sequence breaking

[hazy dome]

At least its not "where silksong" discussion
At least this is pretty lit tho to watch

[open abyss]

Actually I am much more concerned about things they already have like quest board. And I feel a little nervous about them,like will they have a good solid story or just kill 20 bugs, bring me 5 weeds ect?

[stoic path]

Wait I have an idea on what can be added in Assist mode!

Obvious telegraphy. Like when an enemy attacks it shows where it's going to attack. And also some indication on when it attacks too. And also maybe slower enemies.

Yeah I think that could work.

[wispy burrow]

assist mode ranges from like. one extra jump, more damage

all the way to godmode

if someone "removes the experience", they can play again if they wish, or not use it

[brittle garnet]

Yeah tbh think the only accessibility option that wouldn't break the game would be to reduce the animation speed of enemies.

[split tide]

That may be your perspective, and it is completely valid; just want to make the point that to some people (myself included) the difficulty of HK is actually a minor aspect of the game

[hazy dome]

Hornet , The Drug Lord

[drowsy isle]

they turned silksong into a ubisoft game

[wispy burrow]

far cry 6 surprisingly has like, the most accessibility options for disabilities lol

[nimble radish]

oh yeah celeste has a way of slowing gamespeed

[full rune]

I don't see how TC would implement assist without rewriting enemy AI. Seeing as the game is built around physical and mental progression. Flat stats may not solve it. But I'm not a UX designer

[wispy burrow]

there's a whole video on This Year's Report on accessibility in games

[split tide]

I've seen this idea tossed around too, as well as referencing the fact that it's kind of how difficulty is balanced for bosses in HK too

[fleet temple]

that's fair, I'd be fine an assist mode as long as it doesn't interfere with the game design

[wispy burrow]

https://youtu.be/-IhQl1CBj9U

[split tide]

I feel like for most people it'd be fine to just be something small and inobtrusive, much like how it is in Celeste, with the base game not balanced around it

[wispy burrow]

this video is about what games had the most and least options this year for people with disabilities

[radiant wraith]

Again, I can say, I've played games with sliders before and was bothered not at all as someone who didn't use them

[wispy burrow]

they do it each year usually and it's really interesting!

[stoic path]

I mean like, showing 'red zones' or something, as to where attacks would come from

[split tide]

that works too

[fiery coral]

GMTK he's cool

[brittle garnet]

Well, you see. I think the quests will not be like the quests in other games. Yes, you will need to kill 20 enemies, yes you need to get 5 weeds.
But the 20 enies are in a specific location you need to find first, which probably has some lore attached. And the 5 weeds are scattered across the map, so you have to find them first too.
Not only that, you have to find the quest giver next, because the notice boards only tell you their basic location, but you don't have to know where that is.
And the crucial part is that you can still kill those enemies and collect those weeds without ever accepting the quest.
I think the Quests are basically just pointers to stuff you can do in the world, with rewards attached.

[stoic path]

I feel like that's the only thing that would make sense as an assist mode in SS.
Hornet gets spidey sense

And slower enemy

[full rune]

I feel like Celeste assist works well because all the mechanics are there at the beginning. Which is relatively simple. HK you also need to take into the mental equivalent of reacting to something. Rather than taking the initiative in Celeste

[nimble radish]

celeste does add mechanics, just not movement abilities

[stoic path]

Yeah that's the thing, an assist mode in one game doesn't work in another.

[open abyss]

What you said reminds me of Ori and the Will of the Wisps.Maybe maybe.

[copper knot]

alright im back

[split tide]

well it doesn't need to be a direct copy of celeste, just some variant

and a quick way to address boss fight difficulty is to add a nail damage slider

[rapid topaz]

What about assist mode in Super Mario Odyssey?
Like, how do you feel about this one.

[full rune]

That doesn't change boss difficulty. The boss will still operate the same

[split tide]

so people can choose whether they want to experience the boss fight as it is or to just focus on the overworld

[hazy dome]

G

[coarse leaf]

i don't rly want quest items to be super exclusive to quests though, like if you find weeds whose only purpose is to complete that quest

[brittle garnet]

Well, like, do you really think that Team Cherry would go against their own game design with a quest system?

[split tide]

yeah that's a fair point

[wispy burrow]

could add straight up invincibility as an option

[fiery coral]

That's a bit too far

[chrome wave]

The weeds you find will also probably be used to make tools at benches or special npcs

[fleet temple]

odyssey was already a pretty easy game but I think the assist mode was fine

[split tide]

I guess I'm more thinking about the extremes, where someone may just want to skip a boss

[fiery coral]

Oh wait do you mean in Odyssey never mind

[full rune]

But I also don't know the answer. That's why it's actually pretty difficult to sit and decide on then implement

[chrome wave]

Maybe there even gonna be a tool upgrade system

[split tide]

if they only want to explore the overworld

[brittle garnet]

I think the best accessibility option for Silksong would be to slow down enemy attacks and maybe show attack indicators.

[wispy burrow]

I'd say you go scorched earth and add as many options as possible, all (that can work together) togglable

[open abyss]

Actually I heard there will be two types of quest giving. Like in original Hollow Knight and quest boards like in Witcher 3.

[split tide]

really it's moreso a question of how accessible you want the game to be at the end

[coarse leaf]

yh, that'd be fine

[split tide]

Yeah for me I'd also err towards the scorched earth approach

[open abyss]

Quest boards already made. Soo yeah, Wish they will be good.

[brittle garnet]

Well, there will be storyline and stuff like in HK, like Cloth or Zote, but there will also be the more "formalized" quest boards. But I believe that the quests are just a way to organize all the requests from NPC's since there will be much more of them this time around.

[full rune]

While I agree idk how that would go into the scope of altering all of the enemy's logic. How time intensive. Etc. Which is also something we have to consider with a small team

[wispy burrow]

Why not just add

a lot of togglable options

that makes it easier for everyone

the user to have options, the devs to not have to think as hard

There is no too much as long as you have options along the entire scale

[rapid topaz]

I don't liked the arrows in this assist mode, I felt like it was interpreted in "You have to go here" instead of "This direction leads to the main quest", this is a opposed to the Open World design which let you do things in the order you want.

But I liked the respawn bubble thing, as well as the auto-heal. I mean it doesn't really change things anyway

[fleet temple]

I think that would be optimal

[fiery coral]

what'll the toggleable options be

for a game like Silksong

[coarse leaf]

yh, thats probably the main reason i wouldn't want an assist option, it'd just take a lot of time from actual game dev

[past bloom]

i hope theres no nearly impossible to see breakable walls in silksong imagine we wait so long and then the secrets are all cheap af

[wispy burrow]

like I said, all along a scale

Like attack buffs ranging from 1.5x damage all the way up to like 5x, or even One Hit

[radiant wraith]

Alright, I will leave some thoughts here before leaving, I warn you though, I'm unsure.

A big part of the justification for having hard challenges in video games is to get this sense of improvement and then that sense of having overcome a challenge. Under difficult odds you persevered. Thing is, players are not all exactly as good. Say the developers intended around 5 tries to beat the boss, get that amount of the sense of improvement and achievement there; well, one player may have beat the boss first try, another may take 23 attempts. They both missed out on the "intended" experience. Maybe here sliders can help? I'm not sure...

[wispy burrow]

A higher jump

to a double jump

all the way to infinite

[nimble radish]

the impossible to see breakable wall was for a very special secret

[copper knot]

opening and closing the game

[nimble radish]

we won't have that

[copper knot]

lmao

[wispy burrow]

you cannot quit silksong

[brittle garnet]

Nah, that would suck.

[full rune]

Depends on what you want to add. Because if we take easy mod for example this doesn't really alter the game in any way. It cuts down the time for things to be achievable. And if they're achievable with artificial inflated values. They'll be accessible regardless. Bosses will still be the same difficulty

[wispy burrow]

I want to add options upon options upon options to actually account for everyone who might want an assist mode, not who we think would

[copper knot]

dam this argument is still goign on lmao

[full rune]

Which is why imo adjusting enemy logic works but is hella time intensive

[visual wolf]

tbh im not expecting an assist mode

[coarse leaf]

thats not rly an assist though, thats like asking the player to balance the game themselves

[hazy dome]

[visual wolf]

i would like many difficulties tho :)

[wispy burrow]

this is the inspiration

[split tide]

Wouldn't say increasing nail damage dramatically or health allow for more facetanky play?

[past bloom]

ive always thought that with ss's rigid tools which all cost "one notch" it would become more balanced but now that i think about it unless most of them can be upgraded it will probably be even worse

[split tide]

like it's not a direct change to boss AI, but it could still change how people are allowed to approach the boss

[brittle garnet]

How is an assist mode that allows the player to skip through the entire game good? In a Metroidvania.

[rapid topaz]

I think there's high chances there won't be an assist mode, and even if that's the case, the options will not be as we expect to be right now.

[fiery coral]

Assist mode won't be there I'm pretty sure

[rapid topaz]

Me too

[wispy burrow]

It won't be

[fiery coral]

This discussion is mostly hypothetical I think

[nimble radish]

not really, the game would be balanced
assist mode unbalances it, in your favour

[hazy dome]

People dont have time to play game anymore

[visual wolf]

duh

[past bloom]

lmfmfmfmfao

[radiant wraith]

Trust the player not to willingly try to destroy their experience

[visual wolf]

assist mode is for people that just wanna mess around, not actually enjoy the games experience

[past bloom]

this convo is wack

[wispy burrow]

If the player removes the fun

they can play again

or at least they got to play

[visual wolf]

or more so enjoy it in their own way ig

[full rune]

I feel like it would allow for people to achieve victory faster with inflated values. Which then might end up with them either still dying or barely getting out victories. And as bosses get harder this value needs to be adjusted further (@ ab)

[wary marlin]

Silksong

[wispy burrow]

sorry mods for making this whole thing lol

[copper knot]

honestly if i dont have time to play a game i wont play it

[visual wolf]

^ lol

[full rune]

If somehow we could attach a value to all enemy AI and make a slider that slows down their attacks. I think we'd be on to something

[brittle garnet]

Yeah tbh

[visual wolf]

like tbh i dont get the argument, adding assist mode would never be a bad thing (even though they probs wont add it)
it doesnt ruin the game for anyone and only enhances it for those that want it

[full rune]

However I'm not disabled nor am I a game designer so I cannot speak with confidence

[marsh ibex]

I’d be fine with an assist mode, I don’t think anyone actually viscerally hates the idea

Which is weird because every time it’s mentioned here it turns into this

[surreal mortar]

https://youtu.be/GSlEti_ffhE

[visual wolf]

awesome
thank you cookie cat

[surreal mortar]

I assume you guys have seen this

[full rune]

But it's always a great thought experiment. I do love watching GMTK and broadening my knowledge about these subjects

[wispy burrow]

games with difficulty often attract people who think the difficulty is core to the game being itself

[marsh ibex]

Base HK isn’t even difficult

[wispy burrow]

To me, difficulty has nothing to do with HK's identity

To many people here, it does

[rapid topaz]

Yeah

[marsh ibex]

it’s the extra shit that’s hard

[visual wolf]

i agree w this

[wispy burrow]

that's opinion tbh

[visual wolf]

^
but i see how people can find it hard idk

[radiant wraith]

That's for you tho. What about others? Do they all agree?

[hazy dome]

No

[supple widget]

I think people hating on easy modes or assist modes are kinda silly cuz like, if you like the game and want other people to enjoy it, then it should be accessible to people who aren't as good at video games

[marsh ibex]

it’s like so many people have spent all their time in godhome and forgot that the game isn’t screeching hard

[wispy burrow]

I have friends who don't play many games anymore and it was too hard for them to "git gud" to spend more time

[visual wolf]

me

[coarse leaf]

nah, i reckon it's pretty difficult for alot of people, took me like a week to get past hornet 2

[fleet temple]

I don't think difficulty is the main appeal of hk

[wispy burrow]

I died like 2-3 times on each boss in base hk

[visual wolf]

also map navigation in hk is honeslty p complex for nearly everyone

[marsh ibex]

I’m just talking about difficulty and it’s relation in HK

[supple widget]

I think you're just illiterate bro it was easy

[visual wolf]

i mean now its easy

[supple widget]

I'm kidding, I get that a lot of people struggled with the map

[wispy burrow]

i found map navigation more ehhh

i needed help twice i think

[visual wolf]

but goingthrough areas u havent been through before its hard

[wispy burrow]

I will say I wish cornifer appeared later in some zones

[visual wolf]

i didnt struggle that much but i have so many friends that basically dropped the game cus of it

[full rune]

My main concern with silksong from what I've seen is guy's dark projectiles blending in with a background for someone who might be colorblind

[brittle garnet]

That really depends, because if the easy mode is something like Anty suggested, sliders for making everything eaiser, like higher/more jumps, then it would allow the player to just skip through large parts of progression, diminishing their experience.

[open abyss]

I will just place it here .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NInNVEHj_G4 Yeah right at the beginning is key aspect of today discusion

[visual wolf]

lolll

[rapid topaz]

If you're stuck on a boss, you can explore the game more and grab as many upgrades as you can to refight them again later. That's what I've done and everytime the fight was... like free

[wispy burrow]

gmtk is so fuckin pog

[supple widget]

Good video. Celeste handled assist mode really well

[visual wolf]

true (ive never used it :D)

[full rune]

avg gmtk enjoyers

[wispy burrow]

GMTK Clan

[marsh ibex]

oh shit gmtk

[visual wolf]

ik its offtopic but celeste good :)

[marsh ibex]

poggers

[wispy burrow]

new nickname

[marsh ibex]

Aren’t they the person who made Boss Keys

oh yeah they were

[wispy burrow]

also yeah, I agree with his main points here

[supple widget]

Me neither I'm too good at games, but my boyfriend is not a gamer and so it was really nice to see him experience the game and when it got too hard for him (chapter 3) he turned it on and it still felt as challenging for him as I felt it should have been

[open abyss]

And also will drop this. Why any game decision is hard to make https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE05LjNNenQ

[wispy burrow]

oh yeah btw gmtk is getting into making a game

Join the GMTK Clan

[rapid topaz]

Braid

[visual wolf]

oh wow thas good :) what part of assist mode did he use j curious?

[supple widget]

1 extra dash

[past bloom]

i dont understand whats so cool about celeste assist mode like the only thing i find great about it is the slowing timescale and how its presented to you

[supple widget]

That was all he needed

[visual wolf]

thas what i was thinkin

i bet summit was fun for him lolll

[past bloom]

getting 2 dashes is pretty broken and invicibility is just
you know
assist couldve had better assists

[visual wolf]

its well done because it actually helps less skilled players/ players that arent looking for a challenge while breaking the game in a fun way (not noclip lol)

[rapid topaz]

It's the intent to makes it broken

[visual wolf]

it turns the game into a more sandboxy state ig

[past bloom]

the game kinda loses its shine if you can skip most of the level really

[visual wolf]

u see
thats ur opinion :)

[rapid topaz]

I agree invincibility is... really strong in that case but whatever, if people like it I don't mind

[wispy burrow]

It's also a game about depression

[visual wolf]

you enjoy the game for its challenge (as I do)
others might just enjoy the story, visuals etc

[past bloom]

dont get me wrong assist is nice its just like a bit too overpowered for how little options there is

[visual wolf]

why does it matter if its op?

[rapid topaz]

For me celeste as such cool mechanics that I don't want to put on assist mode. And I was convinced by the story even if I skipped some parts that doesn't felt relevant for the story

[past bloom]

there couldve been like and extra jump height or dash length, or like i think there was a thing in variants where you can stop the game when you are about to dash and confirm where you wanna go

[wispy burrow]

that could make it harder tbh

a lot of stuff in the later levels is made around a specific dash or jump

er, the first parts

Alignment gets really important tldr

like dash right then up at the end of that fash length

[past bloom]

eh alright the extra jump height and dash length may break it a bit

[brittle garnet]

anyway, platforming in HK and probably SS isn't nearly as challenging as Celeste, so I don't believe it needs an easy mode for that

just the combat

[past bloom]

but like
say, an extra jump wouldnt make it as easy as an extra dash while also making it more accessible so

[visual wolf]

i agree with this ^

although a ss assist mode probs should include some slight platforming boost

[wispy burrow]

can we all agree that the trend of naming easy modes some really derogatory thing is a dumb trend that should die btw

[visual wolf]

i meant this^

[wispy burrow]

"Chicken Mode"

"go suck a #&$@"

[past bloom]

yea

[open abyss]

Actually even double jump is ok if level is desighned for it.

Like in Spring Collab

[small goblet]

did something happen in last like 12 hours?

[past bloom]

no?

[marsh ibex]

yeah

you mentioning clown stuff counts

[open abyss]

No news about Silksong today

[brittle garnet]

the only platforming boost that wouldn't break the game would be some kind of time-slow when in mid-air
more speed or height or distance could allow skipping progression

[visual wolf]

not today
not tomorrow
not the day after

[small goblet]

well at least something

[wispy burrow]

platforming seems to be more important in ss so who knows

[fleet temple]

TC said that they want to focus more on combat in ss so...

[wispy burrow]

Lmao I find it funny

Ori 2: Fixing the combat

HK 2: Fixing the platforming

one day ori and hk will be fighting to see who makes the perfect videogame

[visual wolf]

my pc cant run ori2 idk why :(((((

[wispy burrow]

because it was designed as a high power xbox game

[visual wolf]

i loved ori1 sm

[rapid topaz]

Plateforming in HK isn't that bad tho

[wispy burrow]

as a Platforming Gamer

yes it is

it's like, really boring lol

[rapid topaz]

Ah

[visual wolf]

i mean kinda but the platform combat kinda makes up for ti

[brittle garnet]

I don't believe cheating is a valid way of "making the game easier"
Making the game easier just means less skill is required to perform what the game needs you to do. Allowing you to entirely bypass game mechanics imo is not good.

[visual wolf]

also i thought pop and white palace where fun ngl

[past bloom]

white palace has great platforming but otherwise hk lacks it

[wispy burrow]

arch i dont really care anymore honestly its been hours

[brittle garnet]

Queen's Gardens was ok too

[open abyss]

Ori is out of stage now,because developers want to make kinda Zelda soulslike action RPG

[brittle garnet]

sure, I'm just giving my opinion

[visual wolf]

crin

[fiery coral]

[rapid topaz]

Compared to plateforming games yeah it's bad
Compared to other games of the same genre, it's decent.
And please don't use Ori as example, because it's really not the only ones in metroidvania

[past bloom]

just like tc said they arent gonna make a hk 3 directly after silksong

[visual wolf]

just let people enjoy the game the way they wanna enjoy it, it doesnt affect ur experience at all

[wispy burrow]

ori 3: electric beegalee

[wispy burrow]

thats the thing, it is also in the platforming genre with metroidvania as a primary

And other metroidvanias are also doing much better in the platforming department

[rapid topaz]

Like Blasphemous has almost no plateforming mechanics it's ridiculous compared to HK

[visual wolf]

maybe thas whats takin silksong so long 😅

making good platforming with non-bs difficulty is hard

[wispy burrow]

metroid dread had some better platforming, though could be better

Metroid's always had its platforming challenges come from speedrunning

[fiery coral]

I mean yeah but to be fair I can see people treating 'make stuff easier for those who need it' and 'make half the game skippable in an attempt to make things easier' differently

[rapid topaz]

Oh no

Not the Metroid dread argue again

[fiery coral]

imagine having played Metroid Dread

[wispy burrow]

i dont see assist mode as the same thing as easy mode

they have some similarities but it's the player rebalancing in their favor, not the game having another balance mode @fiery coral if you get what I mean

[visual wolf]

hasnt that game not come out yet
sry if im dumb

[marsh ibex]

It’s been out since october lmao

[visual wolf]

ok so i am dumb

[wispy burrow]

dread is old news lol

[visual wolf]

i thought it got announced on october idek

didnt rly keep up w that

[fiery coral]

more customisable, you mean

yeah I get that

[rapid topaz]

Saying Metroid dread is a metroidvania is like saying Castlevania 4 is a metroidvania, it's also like saying super mario odyssey is a "Mario" game genre or something like that

I think people misunderstood why this genre is called like that

[wispy burrow]

metroidvania is just "games based on the 2d games based on zelda"

both metroid and castlevania metroidvania games are inspired by zelda

[visual wolf]

uh 😭

[fiery coral]

but still if that customisation allows players to sequence break the game, I would agree with Arch in that it doesn't seem like a very good idea

[past bloom]

well metroidvanias arent nearly as close as zelda are they

[wispy burrow]

this would likely be game breaking if not for hk's room-based design

[past bloom]

wait i said that wrong

[hazy dome]

Why you expect a metroidvania to be a platforming game?

[open abyss]

For you https://youtu.be/4BRo_E8LnHA

[past bloom]

i love these types of channels^

[wispy burrow]

i expect a platforming metroidvania game to be a platforming metroidvania game

[visual wolf]

metroidvania usually refers to games that make you return to places uve visited before with new unlocked abilities that allow you to branch out the map in ur own way

[brittle garnet]

it does have platforming, it's everywhere
just not particularly challenging

[fiery coral]

I find I need to be in a certain mood to watch them 🥴

[hazy dome]

I think both of us have different meaning of platforming game here

[wispy burrow]

last thing im gonna say bc im hungry:

hallownest having pure spikes makes no sense

[past bloom]

what

[visual wolf]

tf is a pure spike

[wispy burrow]

like, the generic metallic one in platformers

[visual wolf]

i mean
sure
ig

[wispy burrow]

also buzzsaws i will never get

[visual wolf]

ok now that i agree w

[wispy burrow]

dear team cherry

You are not the devs of Meatboy

[visual wolf]

but tbh u only see them in the white palace

which makes some sense??

[wispy burrow]

all bugs dream of buzzsaws

[fleet temple]

I guess you could argue that pk put them there to ward of intruders but still how tf did he get buzzsaws in there

[visual wolf]

i mean its supposed to be like a super high securityy

[wispy burrow]

where's the electrical wiring in white palace

who's the electrician

[visual wolf]

same way they got eleevators cuh

menderbug duh

[brittle garnet]

it's magic

[fleet temple]

and if his goal was to keep people away from his body, just brick off the entire place
or something else idk

[wispy burrow]

the pale king just uses a white light
bulb

[visual wolf]

this is such a stupid convo

[fleet temple]

welcome to #sk-discussion

[visual wolf]

lmao fair

[wispy burrow]

HEY GUYS TIME TO WHINE ABOUT PEOPLE WANTING SILKSONG!!!!!

do you want that instead

[rapid topaz]

If you want an exemple of a Metroidvania that has nearly no plateforming at all : Yoku's Island express

[wispy burrow]

yeah but metroidvania is not the only genre

[coarse leaf]

Guys wdym Silksong this is ss discussion meaning you have to discuss steel soul runs, tips and tricks

[visual wolf]

i mean no
i just dont know why we are talking about the logistics of mechanisms in a dream world 😭

[wispy burrow]

metroidvania platformer exists

two genres, one primary

[rapid topaz]

Huh

[coarse leaf]

[visual wolf]

dont know her

[wispy burrow]

Splatoon is weird because it has like 6 genres

[coarse leaf]

Wdym

[hazy dome]

[wispy burrow]

Third Person Shooter
Physics Game
Platformer
MMO (kinda but also /s)

It's also a game about daily events. I call this kind of thing Crossing-like

[past bloom]

youve heard of fps games get ready for tps games

[fiery coral]

second person shooters when

[coarse leaf]

Daily events is just multiplayer with daily circulation in terms of splatoon

[rapid topaz]

Pinball adventure game called "Metroidvania" due to his world design and progress. You're basically playing a ball and the world is a giant pinball game with some fantasy aspects, and you get abilities the further you progress like bombs, extra jump etc..

[coarse leaf]

That isnt a stand alone genre

[past bloom]

i think i loosely remember someone trying to explain a second person game

[hazy dome]

I know i shouldnt visit this server again

[wispy burrow]

shops too

splatfests

league

oh also ordering and salmon

all of these are contextualized by irl time context

[short wagon]

Christmas is only two days away.

[hazy dome]

Hollowmas will arrive

[rapid topaz]

that's the future of gaming

[tame widget]

Let's hope

[wispy burrow]

second person i s possible

[rapid topaz]

It has been done before yeah

At least, attempts

But they weren't really as fun or interesting as you think

[small goblet]

controls would be hard as fuck while seeing your enemy's pov

[spice wigeon]

No milk for Christmas

[scarlet musk]

Every third person game is a second person game if you believe you're watching from the perspective of a ghost 😆

[wispy burrow]

just have like. a guy looking at a screen

[white barn]

Hornet can lift 170x her weight.

[tame widget]

Stronk Spooder

[still elm]

https://twitter.com/wilboooo/status/1474008134410653698?s=12 i feel bad for wilbo, his grandpa died :(

wilbop (@wilboooo)

In memory of the revered great ape Grandfather Wisdom, died from eating his own poo

Twitter · Dec 23, 2021, 1:24 PM

[fiery coral]

wilbo what on earth are you on about

[ocean mulch]

😐

[marsh ibex]

Such a gamer

[still elm]

His family has a lineage of gaming

[marsh ibex]

Oh shit

HK is half off of steam

[still elm]

I can respect the hustle

[brittle garnet]

DS3 is 75% off

[marsh ibex]

don’t care

[burnt atlas]

sup friends

[fiery coral]

Jojo

play DS3

now

[marsh ibex]

I don’t have steam

[fiery coral]

[marsh ibex]

Or a gaming computer

[fiery coral]

did I stutter

[marsh ibex]

fight me

[burnt atlas]

how are peeps? me? just playing some Dread rn

[fiery coral]

sitting in an extra physics lecture and not paying attention

[fiery coral]

[marsh ibex]

Ew dead cells

[coarse leaf]

true

[burnt atlas]

Haven't played Dead cells i don't have alot to say tbh lol

[cobalt lynx]

Doesnt ss come out in febuary

[drowsy isle]

what if wilbo wasn't actually william from team cherry and we just all followed some random dude

[scarlet musk]

We can only hope

[marsh ibex]

rumor

[cobalt lynx]

Oh..

[marsh ibex]

based on a “leak”

[coarse leaf]

its confirmed, the mods are just trolling

[scarlet musk]

At least I'll have god of war will keep me busy for a lil while

[haughty brook]

There is nothing that confirms 100% of that particular date, I lend towards placeholder.

[burnt atlas]

I mean, the first (and only trailer) was announced at february, would be cool if it also comes out at february

[cobalt lynx]

Im just gonna believe its real

[burnt atlas]

in the mean time, i'll just play blasphemous or bloodstained

or metroid dread

[cobalt lynx]

Ill just play like dark souls or something

[spark hinge]

yo same

Elden ring will keep me busy in feb

[burnt atlas]

i think Splatoon 3 would keep me occupied for the rest of 2022 ngl

[cobalt lynx]

I completeley forgot about that game

[burnt atlas]

spent over 1000 hours on splatoon 2, gonna waste 1000 more hours of that game

[nimble radish]

all you need is the 2014 game school of dragons

[wispy burrow]

it'll keep me occupied for 3

[olive bobcat]

World of Magic 🪄

[jade wolf]

alu :-)

[olive bobcat]

toby 👁️ 👁️

[jade wolf]

yessir!!!!! the one and only

how areee you? its been so long

[olive bobcat]

I am quite well, you?

[jade wolf]

ive been great!

[olive bobcat]

Good to hear :)

[jade wolf]

eheheh for you as well!!! what have you been up to?

[olive bobcat]

Having a job and the fun time of being a junior

[uncut citrus]

i am about 6h late but i would be up 👀

[small goblet]

oh i am also late but i can

[coarse leaf]

Hello chat!

[uncut citrus]

[coarse leaf]

NICE

[small goblet]

[burnt topaz]

[uncut citrus]

[dusk badger]

hello

[burnt topaz]

Hello!

[uncut citrus]

probably most welcoming thing to open discord to in this channel since... really really long

[fiery coral]

[jade wolf]

omg sure

[silver oak]

Whenever this channel isn’t nuking itself over nothing we’re actually quite nice

[uncut citrus]

thats what im saying, really rare

[silver oak]

Not as rare as you might think

[wispy burrow]

i think discussions are fun

[silver oak]

We’ve been pretty good since the direct

[copper knot]

as long as the chat doesnt have any new rumor of silksong bein in a direct its fine

[silver oak]

Plus mods kinda hijacked the chat

[tame widget]

[bleak scarab]

The clowns only come out at certain times till then you can stay sane here

[brittle garnet]

Hopefully TGA has taught people that "obvious signs" rarely mean anything, right?

....Right?

[fiery coral]

nope!

we shall continue to hope
one day we'll be right

[uncut citrus]

[brittle garnet]

anyway my belief is that if something big is gonna get announced then we'll get a heads up

[carmine sapphire]

[brittle garnet]

like they did with the announcement trailer

[young saffron]

yes

my only belief is feb 2022 or any where in 2022

[maiden forge]

Trust me it drops tomorro

[brittle garnet]

Christmas release date announcement would be nice~

[young saffron]

yea :/

[tame widget]

But they will spend time with their families

[brittle garnet]

Yeah

[young saffron]

no new info for more than a year D:

[brittle garnet]

I'm not saying it will happen

[young saffron]

we just want a blog post

idk how long would that take but surely it cant take longer than 2 hours?

[pseudo coral]

https://youtu.be/GSlEti_ffhE

[coarse leaf]

it takes about a year

[young saffron]

im talking about writing a blogpost.

[coarse leaf]

same

[young saffron]

b r u h

[brittle garnet]

"up to a week" according to Graig

they really have to deliberate on what to put in it

[fiery coral]

genuinely curious as to how blogposts take even close to a week

[fiery coral]

even still, like...that's not something that actively detracts from development, is it, surely?

[young saffron]

Fr??

[brittle garnet]

I bet it's because they write 1 line per day cause they're so busy with development

[fiery coral]

[young saffron]

but still its been a year...
Im not trying to sound ungreatful but I think this is okay to "complain" about.

[young saffron]

we should get a day in the life of TC

[brittle garnet]

well, they didn't make a blogpost because they don't want to
it's that simple

probably because they don't have anything worth relaying

what are they gonna do? Show more of the game, more spoilers? And then say "Ye we're still working on it"

[young saffron]

🧠

[coarse leaf]

ill send you link

[brittle garnet]

o send one to me too

[young saffron]

give us an update on the development of silksong, such as a rough estimate date :O

[brittle garnet]

they won't do that

[young saffron]

ik

[brittle garnet]

what if they miss the estimate date? It's just gonna create more problems than it solves

I wonder if people will get mad if it doesn't come out Feb 1 like they did on May 28

or June 12th

[vestal wagon]

Why bother waiting for silksong news?

Just do what I did and play soulsborne

[opaque sigil]

Giving a rough estimate would be the worst possible thing for them to do

[young saffron]

I dont.

Well until tga I havent even thought of silksong. but tga light me up. too bad I was pushed back down

now that all the events are over all hope is dead for me

and by the time school starts ill forget about silksong until the month of feb. 2022

[vestal wagon]

I guarantee you getting your shit kicked in by the SoY will give you better things to worry about.

[young saffron]

SoY?

[vestal wagon]

||Shadows of Yharnam|| spoiler for a mid-ish game boss

[cunning geode]

I love that Silksong boss

[brittle garnet]

no PS4

[young saffron]

oh bloodborne
Wish I could play but I dont own a console :/

[vestal wagon]

Oh well

[opaque sigil]

Someday it will be reasonably emulatable

[small goblet]

play bloodborne card game

[vestal wagon]

There's always fighting games

Skullgirls starts with the same letter as Silksong if that makes it any better.

[cunning geode]

so does Strive if you cut out Guilty Gear

[vestal wagon]

True

[split tide]

You can always play hollow knight again

[vestal wagon]

NO

[cunning geode]

Booo

[vestal wagon]

I 112%ed once

[burnt topaz]

do it again

[vestal wagon]

Not doing it again.

The only thing I haven't done was the entire Pantheon of Hallownest

But that doesn't count for the 112 so we take those

[young saffron]

im going to buy stardew valley or dead cells!

[opaque sigil]

As much replay value as HK has, it is finite

[cunning geode]

Unlike Doom, which has infinite playtime

[young saffron]

as for series and movies I have a bunch of them coming out in 2022 so I dont have to think about hk

[vestal wagon]

When I've put 100 hours into my first playthrough there is NO replaying it for me.

[opaque sigil]

Subsequent playthroughs of HK go by much more quickly

[young saffron]

I did 112%
but I need to do the pantheon shit :V

I dont rly have much content in hk its more like challenges :l

[vestal wagon]

Ay the number is there. Bump that. You don't need to do any kind of pantheon

[opaque sigil]

You have to do the first four

[jade canopy]

I found that steal soul and rando added a lot of replayability

[burnt topaz]

rando a lot more than steel soul

[jade canopy]

Obviously

[young saffron]

I hope I like stardew valley

[jade canopy]

But after getting pretty good at the game, and knowing the map by heart through randos, a ss run was pretty fun, as I was just able to rush through everything not being cautious

[burnt topaz]

i like how with rando, you can test your knowledge of the map in ways that vanilla hk cant really do

[vestal wagon]

Isn't there a mod that just gives the knight a hun

Lmao hun

[burnt topaz]

a what

[vestal wagon]

Gun, pew pew

[burnt topaz]

oh hollowpoint

[jade canopy]

Yeah it’s pretty good, gun rando is fun

I should probably do gun p5 at some point too

[burnt topaz]

i need to play hollow point rando, havent done that yet

[fleet river]

hornet is void

[burnt topaz]

no

[fleet river]

lace is zote’s mom

[cunning geode]

you said this is another channel too

[fleet river]

yes

[cunning geode]

a great attempt at garnering attention by trying to rile people up

anyways

[fleet river]

but its important info

[coarse leaf]

Hornet is void

[warm plinth]

so does anything change here or do people just talk about the same thing everytime

[tame widget]

Hornet is screen transitions

[cunning geode]

If it’s about silk song, it’s pretty repetitive

[warm plinth]

hornet is just pixels on a screen

[coarse leaf]

Ah yes

[fiery coral]

aside from Silksong discussion this is genuinely a great channel

and I look forward to the next great off topic talk

[cunning geode]

Not anymore because Unique is here
Now it’s an awesome channel

[fiery coral]

no u

[uncut citrus]

Thankfully, only a small part of what we talk about is actually silksong

[silver oak]

I don’t believe you

[tawdry valley]

You shouldn’t, they’re just pixels on a screen

[silver oak]

So are you

[spare elbow]

Don't put the clown make up too far away boys, Feb is just around the corner

[rare nymph]

Anyone playing rain world? Do you think it's worth buying?

[jade canopy]

I’ve started it, it’s pretty weird

Like really weird, but I haven’t finished it at all so I won’t really say much

[tame widget]

I've seen a lots of videos of it & I know the lore, but personally, i'm stuck in ||Shaded Citadel||

[rare nymph]

It seems like a very difficult game.

[brittle garnet]

Rain World is very unique

you need to play it to gauge if you'll like it

it's certainly not easy

[rare nymph]

Okay,I'm getting

[carmine sapphire]

Silksong in 2 months (real)

[wheat sail]

You did say it's real

[fringe pulsar]

🤞

[wheat sail]

I'd like to thing within 2 more times TC gives us news it will be about release info. Since HK came out soon after release date was announced we might get SS unexpectedly somewhat soon

[carmine sapphire]

To me it would make sense to release this february or somewhere close there

[wheat sail]

That assumes they are very close to finishing

which they may or may not be

[pale lion]

im hoping for a feb direct based on 0 evidence but im sticking to my guns

[carmine sapphire]

Same

[brave stone]

So looking at the time between the 3 DLC patches Hidden Dreams, Grimm Troupe, Lifebood, God Master. The time frame for TC to add in something to their games takes about 2.5 to 5.5 months to make and add in

[surreal crown]

I have a bunch of different points on that, but I don't wanna mention them cause I'll probably sound like a conspiracy theorist

[brave stone]

Graig said that TC still wants to add more

so 2 bigger things or 5 smaller things mean a whole year more of dev time

[wheat sail]

maybe in less than a year

before 2023 please 😦

[brave stone]

this is assuming TC still is working at the same pace as before

and has not gotten faster

[carmine sapphire]

Everyone is one

[brave stone]

I think the only hope I can give is that for the other DLC's is that TC was working on other stuff during them like the other DLC's bug fixes and Silksong

[sage glade]

let's hear it

[surreal crown]

Don't forget that they were working on Silksong on the side. If they weren't they might've gotten those DLC out quicker

[brave stone]

Ya TC seem to be mostly focused on Silksong

[carmine sapphire]

Except graig

[brave stone]

these days maybe with a tad of whatever Fearless Fox is on the side by what was said in the Edge article

So maybe TC is faster at adding content

[surreal crown]

So I've been in different speculative communities over the years and my belief is that no matter how much you feel might be right, or how much something makes sense, it could always just as easily be wrong. I wanna preface my speculations with this cause at the end of the day it's just all good and fun (for me at least).

[sullen fractal]

I need me some silk smog

[brave stone]

I hope for Silksong next year if we get no news this year

but IDK it could still be a while

[sullen fractal]

I hope they make a huge design change at the last minute and this game is a first person shooter that includes famous maps 'nuketown' and 'rust'

[sage glade]

[sullen fractal]

And they get bruce willis to do voice acting

[wheat sail]

chris pratt as hornet

[gray lance]

He's so cool

[serene chasm]

Danny Devito as Lace

[sullen fractal]

I hope there are bosses in this game

I think that would be a good idea

[signal crag]

lmao, keep dreaming

[serene chasm]

There will be. Really hard ones that make you work overtime without pay

[sullen fractal]

I hope team cherry pays me minimum wage to play this game

[small goblet]

hope silksong features silk and song

[signal crag]

i hope it's "silksong", like the whole package

[cinder turtle]

i hope it exists

[gray lance]

This is a long shot
I hope it has tools

[sullen fractal]

I hope it's an exact copy and paste of hollow knight except you walk slightly faster

[signal crag]

that sounds like a good improvement
faster is ALWAYS better

[gray lance]

Bro just put on sprintmaster

[jade canopy]

Hey you never know how much the game may have changed after the demo, maybe tools have been reworked completely

[sullen fractal]

I want the option to romance every boss in the game

[gray lance]

Persona: Silksong

[signal crag]

lmao, just put dash master then
extra speed for tunnel carpal syndrome, sounds like a deal to me

[sullen fractal]

TEAM CHERRY PLEASE TAKE NOTES HERE

[sage glade]

they took it out of godmaster, they better bring it back ngl

[sullen fractal]

Actually no option, mandatory romance

[signal crag]

you can tho?
with the godseeker

[sullen fractal]

Just give me a dating sim

[gray lance]

PoH but it's just a visual novel

[signal crag]

you can give her a flower
same thing for one of the nail masters

[wheat sail]

its all coming soon #sk-discussion message

[cunning geode]

Any day now

[burnt topaz]

damn simos sure taking a long time to type that message

[wheat sail]

I have been staring at hk announcments for 15 hours

[signal crag]

that can't be healthy

[sinful flare]

just send message "a" and only "a" in hk announcements it'll be funny i swear

[sullen fractal]

Dam I gotta review the rules real quick I got in trouble

[quick dagger]

how

[sullen fractal]

Sorry mod 😦

[cunning geode]

[sinful flare]

bannd

[quick dagger]

based

[cerulean sable]

you joke but if they do that, that will send a wave of messages to anyone that was subscribed to that channel

and it WILL cause some traction

the most they can do is just to type something there and get some idiot to screenshot it

[wheat sail]

Please not another hk patch

[sage glade]

soup master is still typing

[gray lance]

Hk patch 1.88: Added Hornet DLC

[sage glade]

10 page document incoming

[sinful flare]

hk 1.5.534692374.125864789623789474

[small goblet]

oh i missed that

[signal crag]

does HK still have some glitches / issues that needs to be fixed?

[cunning geode]

ye

[brittle garnet]

there seem to be plenty of the steam forum

[rapid topaz]

Milibelle is still a scam

[sage glade]

i reported a bug once. idk if they fixed it

[cerulean sable]

Zaliant once showed a clip of the King's Mould's 2nd attack having no hitbox

[sullen fractal]

Sometimes when an enemy touches you you take damage

[rapid topaz]

That's an unfortunate bug

[cerulean sable]

like the first slash of the combo WILL hit you

but the 2nd one doesnt register if you dodge the 1st one

[opaque sigil]

There's kinda no way not to have some glitches or things to be fixed

[quick dagger]

i found a bug in hollow knight

[signal crag]

but not the second one????
lol how

[cunning geode]

It has literally no hurtbox

The second swing

[sage glade]

and why are we complaining?

[cerulean sable]

no idea

[sage glade]

hate those guys anyway

[cunning geode]

it’s just a funny little thing

[signal crag]

TC forgor 💀

[wheat sail]

spaghetti code

[quick dagger]

yes, why are we complaining about bugs? some of them are good

[rapid topaz]

I like Tiso

[sullen fractal]

I like the big one with the claws

[sage glade]

hornet's head looks like a claw

[surreal crown]

Yeah I ain't typing that sh*t

[sage glade]

bruh all that buildup

[surreal crown]

Yeah I realized after the third re-write that I have no idea how to convey my ideas into text.

[sage glade]

fine, i'll take it as you having no evidence

[surreal crown]

[sinful flare]

my least favorite bug. millibelle. she scams you after you go past 2500 geo and that annoying bug goes to pleasure house at least you can beat her up

[surreal crown]

I was gonna talk about Dec. 13 and the precedent for news hopefully in a way that wasn't stupid

[burnt topaz]

its unbelievable that the little bitch millibelle can survive in the infected kingdom, what a pussy

[opaque sigil]

But... it's the 23rd

[cerulean sable]

wjat of to beat the final boss of silskong

hornet has to use the needolin

but she has to be on fucking tempo

[burnt topaz]

to like put it to sleep or something

[serene chasm]

Final boss is a needolin battle against Larkin

[opaque sigil]

Was that supposed to be "what if"

[sage glade]

mandolin reference!? silksong?!!?

[cerulean sable]

SO FUCKIGNG TRUE

[uncut citrus]

Normal last boss is gru||z|| mother, if your not really nice you gotta fight Sherma tho

[burnt topaz]

why was the ||z|| spoilered

[sinful flare]

sherma is the final boss of silksong genocide route

[sage glade]

because it could also be grub

[quick dagger]

because it is a spoiler, duh

[small goblet]

well now you spoiled the ||z||, are you happy?

[burnt topaz]

im so sorry ill fix that immediately

[sinful flare]

||z||amn

[stoic path]

Markoth

[burnt topaz]

at least markoth has a god damn spine

[surreal crown]

Yeah....

So going into this month I actually had the suspicion based on some other ideas that we weren't gonna get a blogpost. Not because of pessimism, but because if my theories were true then it wouldn't make sense for it to happen.

Dec. 13 had relevance to silksong news for 3 years straight (blogpost first two years, and an
EDGE teaser for the third).
What's more interesting to me however is the reason for this date in the first place. The holiday sign-offs took place a day before took a break, and so I see it as closing up shop and switching the sign out front.
A blogpost on this date always made sense because in the absence of development time there could be an easy excuse for why they'd post more news. They aren't going to be developing for a couple of weeks anyways so why not throw a ball to the community?

2020 was obviously an exception, but only in the best possible way. We got something the equivalent of multiple blogposts all at once.

Why skip this date now, for this year? I've been thinking on it a while and there's actually less possibilities than one might think (when you consider the context of the sign-offs).

Anyways I can explain more if you want me to. I just don't like putting myself out there.

[uncut citrus]

Cause it’s a mix between gru and gruz so it’s like there’s 0.5 of a z

[signal crag]

uhhh
alright soup master, go ahead

[burnt topaz]

The holiday sign-offs took place a day before took a break, and so I see it as closing up shop and switching the sign out front.

i agree

[brittle garnet]

do explain

[small goblet]

soup master is typing

[burnt topaz]

lets goo

[uncut citrus]

I sent that message way before but had no data for a bit now it’s out of context

[burnt topaz]

i always get slightly scared when i send a message and it doesnt send but the context is like 10 minutes back

[sinful flare]

thanks soup master i'm gonna pretend i'm reading

[brittle garnet]

don't be rude, c'mon

[sinful flare]

...yeah, all that effort just to be replied with that, actually reads like a boss

[sage glade]

[sinful flare]

i think team cherry hates 2021

[small goblet]

i think team cherry hates

[serene chasm]

TC loves making SS

[signal crag]

let Soup Master type, i'm mildly insterested

[fleet fox]

I am very interested

[sinful flare]

i am verier interested

[nimble radish]

they won't release silksong because they personally dislike me

[sage glade]

everyone is interested but no one is interesting

[sinful flare]

same

[signal crag]

...specifically you?

[sinful flare]

we're done interesting

[nimble radish]

not true, it's me they dislike

[nimble radish]

yeah

[cerulean sable]

I searched for Silksong. Silksong is me.

[small goblet]

@ Team Cherry explain this

[sinful flare]

omg silk son real 2042 1 (😱)

[signal crag]

...what have you done to them?

[fleet fox]

real

[sage glade]

@cerulean sable hey how many years of ban do i receive per @lapis swift ping ( SORRY @lapis swift, IT ACTUALLY PINGED YOU )

[cerulean sable]

Do not ping randos

[sage glade]

... i didn't. discord auto completed that. i didn't write any of the numbers

[sinful flare]

put a space after the @ anyways

[cerulean sable]

And yet here you are, about to receive the consequences of your action

[nimble radish]

[cerulean sable]

In the end, it doesnt matter until it all comes back to you

[serene patrol]

Lol

[ocean mulch]

Tacccoooooooooo

[serene patrol]

Well my birthday is today ... so its today ... right ?

[burnt topaz]

hapy birthday

[ocean mulch]

Happy birthday

[sinful flare]

i think lori sent the message in the placeholder

[brazen needle]

happy birthday

[serene patrol]

Thank you fellow troupes

[ocean mulch]

I'll wish them a merry Christmas

[sinful flare]

yes very today very happy birthday to you sir 🎂

[serene chasm]

Happy Birthday!

[serene patrol]

Thankies

[ocean mulch]

Very today lmao

[sinful flare]

very no problemies

[cerulean sable]

For your birthday present, pick a random number between 1 and 6

The rewards range from a free gift card, or getting permanently banned from this server

This is not optional, you are required to pick a number

[small goblet]

let's all send "Haha but seriously guys, when is Silksong out?" at the same time to tc
||/j please don't||

[burnt topaz]

how long do they have?

[serene patrol]

Holy the stakes bro HAHAHAHA

[sage glade]

what kind of messed up russian roulette is that

[sinful flare]

delays silksong to 9090

[tame widget]

I choose π

[serene patrol]

Uhh 2

[nimble radish]

does it have to be a whole number

[small goblet]

russian roulette
pick a random number from 1-6

[serene patrol]

[sage glade]

just round pi to 3 like a true engineer

[tame widget]

3.π

[burnt topaz]

well youre still here so it cant be that bad

[nimble radish]

pi is exactly the same thing as 3

[serene patrol]

Im still here

[languid linden]

5

[cerulean sable]

Start watching your back
Because one day, maybe tomorrow, maybe next year, maybe the next decade, but one day
When that day comes

😃

[burnt topaz]

🙂

[sage glade]

pi is 5 guys

[serene patrol]

A nintendo silksong case will be thrown at me from behind???

Yeah i'll take that

[stoic path]

Woah

[tame widget]

well I choose π then

[wheat sail]

pi is just another symbol to use

[burnt topaz]

where did you get this image

[stoic path]

Fun fact: 3.14 reversed spells pie

[sage glade]

woah

[serene patrol]

The back of my head just blew right off

[sage glade]

from a meme channel

[jade canopy]

American units be like

[tame widget]

π Is THE answer, the answer to when Silksong will be out, exactly π years after its announcement

[burnt topaz]

its 5 pies long

march 14th, thats it, thats the answer

[stoic path]

The answer to this is 5000

[small goblet]

or ____er 3rd, who knows

[tight kayak]

has anyone from teamcherry said WHY they arent sharing ANY news?

[brazen needle]

did soup leave?

[tame widget]

nope, but I guess the answer is that they forget to do it because they are focused on the game

[signal crag]

still typing, don't worry

[burnt topaz]

i wouldnt say forgot

[jade canopy]

They are working hard on the game and giving news takes time they don’t want to waste

[brazen needle]

he dissapeared for me

[tight kayak]

forgot kekw

[signal crag]

maybe they simply stopped typing for a moment?

[brazen needle]

maybe

[tame widget]

Honestly, news wouldn't really calm the fans, by seeing how they got insane since TGA

[uncut citrus]

Also yeah that’s basically what I mean: Sherma acts like sans, being good to you or reking your face depending on your actions

(This is 101% confirmed, sources: trust me bro )

[signal crag]

at least, something like "yeah, still working on it" would definitely not calm down the fans

[opaque sigil]

Definitely not, if anything it would make things worse

[uncut citrus]

Ig I’ll go with 4

[signal crag]

they kinda have to share something we didn't knew already

[small goblet]

soup master do be writing a huge document

[sage glade]

why do i feel like this channel is stuck in a loop of the same 10 lines of reasoning

[opaque sigil]

Which also wouldn't satisfy everybody

[jade canopy]

So anyway tools

[uncut citrus]

Apparently ppls don’t know they are alive so any kind of blogpost would work

[stoic path]

1 because I'm always number one

[sage glade]

then pipes and piss bottle

[wheat sail]

news wouldnt calm fans it would get them excited..

[small goblet]

so many people have bds today woah

[surreal crown]

Alright so another factor to consider before moving ahead is that actual news outside of this date (Dec. 13) is very limited. It can be easy to forget that aside from the reveal trailer itself and presence at E3 2019, we've only had the NPC teases which came in the form of discord riddles. Not a very official way of dispensing news right?

Since Silksong's reveal we've only gotten substantial bits of news in December. Two teaser tracks in 2019, alongside considerably meaty information on internal development. In 2020 we got the EDGE article and I don't think that needs explaining. So it's clear that this time of year is not just important to us, the fans, but also themselves.

So, closing up shop likely happened this year, but no blogpost or holiday sign-off. Why not?

1.) They are decently far away from release. This paired with no news however makes the least amount of sense. If they really are that far away there's no reason not to touch up with the community. It wouldn't matter in the long-run anyways.
2.) They feel like they are coming to the end of development (think 3-6 months from now). If this is the case they have two options. Be honest and say that they are closing-in on a release date, which is very much against the way they've said they wanted to market this game, or... they could just act like business is as usual and not mention a release date. In that case, why have a blogpost at all? It'd just be better to skip it and power through to release. Silksong is undoubtedly getting a release trailer eventually, and it's there they'd want the most momentum.
3.) Internal patterns have changed. They are still interested in dispensing news, but no longer on the 13th. This again begs the question of why? There's no better time for a blogpost than the aforementioned holiday sign-off, and it's not like Dec. 13th is a date that we as the community have come to perpetuate. It's clear there has always been a reasoning for this date, and paired with the fact that the odd year out (2020) still had silksong related news on the 13th it just doesn't make a lot of sense.

[lament lotus]

thats a big wall

[wheat sail]

[surreal crown]

My message was too long I had to half it

[burnt topaz]

theres more

[uncut citrus]

I totally agree! (I also totally finished reading it)

[sage glade]

[opaque sigil]

wrt 2, it's kind of the opposite

If TC anticipates release in the near future, that's more reason to push things out

[hasty sonnet]

don't worry guys I will ask

[wheat sail]

Time for discord users to act like experts and say why they would/wouldn't

[opaque sigil]

Also assuming that TC had any involvement in the Edge teaser thing on the 13th is a stretch

[stoic path]

How does TC want to market the game?

[brittle garnet]

which is very much against the way they've said they wanted to market this game
this is false, since they stated that they would reveal more info as they get closer towards release

[uncut citrus]

Ok i finished reading it now but that didn’t help understanding

[hasty sonnet]

@noble hamlet hello there, where is the lastest silksong news after a whole year silence?
You can ban me but don't delete this thank you

[opaque sigil]

[wheat sail]

He died for the cause

[tawdry valley]

And all of these things imply a release date, and not a change in marketing strategy, standard development pattern, or shifts in TCs actual development?

[nimble radish]

oh damn

[tawdry valley]

Team cherry wants to develop a product that is presentable and marketable as well as one they find to be of quality within the genre

[wheat sail]

Also leth would be sleeping now, you shouldve atted him in the afternoon

[surreal crown]

Yeah all this is just for fun (at least to me). I expect criticism and honestly welcome it cause it gets the chat more active

[sage glade]

is he ever even online?

[nimble radish]

you shouldn't @ him at all

[wheat sail]

yes

[tawdry valley]

@surreal crown #sk-discussion message

[uncut citrus]

This sacrifice will always stay in our memeories as the sacrifice that really didn’t do much cause Leth just ignored it

[tame widget]

Graig is the only TC "member" to be really online

[small goblet]

2. power through to release
   but they are (most likely) powering through to release for a year, isn't it supposed to be like less time than a year if they are really close to release?

[hasty sonnet]

yeah, who cares

[burnt topaz]

ooh that new bell looks fresh

[tawdry valley]

Reminder that we have suspected TC being close to release for about 2 years now.

[small goblet]

[uncut citrus]

Well Leth probably doesn’t enjoy getting random pings

[surreal crown]

Maybe at one point they did, but more recently Leth mentioned that they wouldn't market the game hard until they were sure of a release date. The way I've heard it explained is that TC isn't sure of a release date until almost immediately before then. However, that doesn't change the knowledge for them that it might be coming sooner than later.

[burnt topaz]

i think he has his pings off but it doesnt matter regardless

[tame widget]

I mean, saying this each years, we will end up right someday

[tame widget]

I was answering to this

[wheat sail]

People thinking Leth has noise pings on

[brittle garnet]

To be fair though I believe #2 to be the case

[opaque sigil]

He probably doesn't, but randomly pinging TC is still frowned upon

[wheat sail]

I see it is

[tame widget]

like they will ever see the pings

[ocean mulch]

I wonder why

[quick dagger]

pinging? kinda cringe bro

[opaque sigil]

Leth will

Oh the irony

[quick dagger]

sure

[small goblet]

well people usually have morals and don't ping some important dude for no reason

[tame widget]

the pings will get drowned by all the messages from this chat

so it's like pinging for nothing

[sage glade]

leth everyday after turning on discord

[uncut citrus]

[surreal crown]

Not that this means anything for sure, but Leth mentioned earlier this year:
"Big games tend to launch and eat up the airwaves at end of year - I prefer early year launches for indies in general."

[wheat sail]

Mute Channel: Until I turn it back on
Notification Settings: Nothing

Pretty complex

[uncut citrus]

Well silksong won’t launch in December for sure, but we can still have news for it to release a few weeks/months later, at the start of 2022

[stoic path]

I will take this marketing knowledge from Leth

I will manifest it

[wheat sail]

Leth doesn't relly have a say since he also wanted to market stuff but TC just aren't ready

[sage glade]

you'd be surprised how many people don't know about these options and like to get mad at @ everyone pings

[small goblet]

i checked previous leth's messages and he's coming here once a month in a middle of a month, so maybe wait for 13 january?...

[opaque sigil]

Leth does have a say, just not the final word

TC wouldn't hire him if they were just going to ignore him

[wheat sail]

True

[sage glade]

i guess having leth is better than having big publishers that force you to release the game unfinished

[surreal crown]

Yeah ultimately I feel TC will release it whenever it's done. If that means late next year then there's not much to be said about it.

[stoic path]

There is something we can do, wait faster

[tame widget]

genius

[surreal crown]

[small goblet]

time go vroom vroom

[sage glade]

you know, with relativity and all, the faster you move, the faster times moves for you

[kind spire]

remember when people where thinking silksong will come out in 2019-2020 🤣 😆

[sage glade]

so start hitting the treadmill

[surreal crown]

I know a form of time travel, it's called severe head trauma.

[small goblet]

silksong once was a dlc...

[nimble radish]

on the treadmill you're not moving anymore than anywhere else

you need to run for real you shut ins

[tame widget]

It got so big it became its whole game

[uncut citrus]

Not only reason but yeah

[tame widget]

also Hornet was to tall for some rooms

[brazen needle]

MOSSBAG VIDEO!!!!

am i late?

[kind spire]

i think nobody minds it not being a dlc but the price was hell

[tame widget]

It's Hollow Knight iceberg

[small goblet]

yeah just noticed it too

[stoic path]

They made a whole game because Hornet was too tall lmao

[kind spire]

it sounds like a joke but it has been one of the reasons why

[stoic path]

Just by 36 mins

[stoic path]

Yeah, it would feel vastly different to play as Hornet, considering how I am used to the Knight

[wheat sail]

Team cherry want to hype up ss, they contacted mossbag to upload more videos

pretty obvious.

[sudden belfry]

SS is going to release in all platforms at once, right? Is there any info about that?

[stoic path]

Wasn't it PC and Switch?

[sudden belfry]

Since I don't have a Switch Since were I live there are more PS5 than Switches I don't wanna wait

[stoic path]

Then after that consoles

[sudden belfry]

fuck

[sage glade]

voidheart edition did take a long time to release tbh

[stoic path]

Why do you wanna fuck me?

[wheat sail]

They may announce more consoles later on

[sage glade]

fuck

[sudden belfry]

Well, I guess I will wait

SS on PS5 sure will look good tho

[sage glade]

i mean it's a 2d game

[languid linden]

I think Leth said that he wants SS to release on all platforms at launch, but it might not happen

[still owl]

nothings confirmed yet other than Switch console wise

[languid linden]

Damn I was hoping to play it on PC. Thanks for crushing my hopes, Shal

[still owl]

[serene chasm]

Not sure how webms work on discord. hopefully they loop

[dusty nimbus]

It didn't loop

[serene chasm]

didnt think it would. lame.

[low jasper]

It would have to be a gif to loop but otherwise it wont so rip

[tardy mason]

So what's happening?

[dusty nimbus]

Why must tiger lily's shadow follow me even after deleting the game

[tardy mason]

What

So as got a release date?

[wheat sail]

No, if we get a release date they are already done the game

so never cause they keep adding stuff apparently 😔

[tardy mason]

Yeah I heard about that

I'm afraid SS will end just like omori

[dusk badger]

can't blame 'em, if gamedev is fun, you never wanna stop it

i wonder if making games is actually that fun

[tardy mason]

It is if you know what you're doing

Unless it's just frustrating

[dusk badger]

like if you're following a plan?

[wheat sail]

There are probably down points where you're stuck on stuff, and deadlines

[dusk badger]

well that's everywhere

[wheat sail]

Game dev sounds more stressful than fun but idk

[dusk badger]

it's probably even more stressful during crunch
can't believe even TC did a couple of those

i mean for silksong. for hk it probably isn't suprising

[serene chasm]

I want to know more about the prison. Its one of the only areas weve seen that doesnt match anything else

[uncut citrus]

i mean it depend of the person ofc, you can just... not like doing that?

[dusk badger]

freestyle everything 😎

[uncut citrus]

probably pretty early on since grindle is supposed to give us tips and stuff, plus it really really really looks like you get the throwing pin here

[silver oak]

It has a similar aesthetic to the tavern

But idk how a prison and a tavern would be connected

[uncut citrus]

probably just like... diffrent places having the same material and stuff? like even the whole pharloom map isnt that big when you think about it, an architectural style could be used from one side to the other of the map

[serene chasm]

Tavern is in greymoor. Same floor. The floor here doesnt match

[brittle garnet]

I wanna say it's somewhere close to Coral Forest or the Pukebug place

[uncut citrus]

it does look really old and wearing off

[brittle garnet]

I think it's in the same area as pukebug, as it has a similar color scheme, similar metal finishes, and it has the same shape of chains

[serene chasm]

might be onto something there

[burnt topaz]

it really does look like a dungeon with the cobble and such

[silver oak]

Yeah the detailed setpieces looks similar

[marble marsh]

there are 2 "areas" in city so maybe there are a couple of areas like that, or the mood just changes bc its a prison

[brittle garnet]

also it has this spine-looking asset, which can also be seen in coral forest

but this also appears in moss grotto and forest of bones, so it's probably just a common asset

[marble marsh]

maybe its between those areas

[dusk badger]

all of these sprites look different though

wait maybe the dark and the lower one are the same

[burnt topaz]

these chains are similar

[brittle garnet]

nah, the 2 blue ones are the exact same, it appears that the dark one is different

[dusk badger]

oh is it like flipped

[brittle garnet]

yeah

[dusk badger]

master asset reuse skills

[serene chasm]

The chains are an interesting topic. They appear quite a lot in the media we've seen so far

[brittle garnet]

these spines are everywhere, too
in Moss Grotto, Boneforest, Deep Docks too in once place too iirc

[dusk badger]

probably just fossils

[serene chasm]

The prison could be near the pit that Hornet falls in.