sk-discussion

[fiery burrow]

honk mimimi I want to hit the boss

[glad flower]

tests your map and npc knowledge

[rocky lotus]

gameplay wise i would agree. rad phase 2 ruins the fight for me

[somber ledge]

I really liked it 😄 The dish the dude ended up making looked nasty as hell tho

[rocky jolt]

ok ur stupid

[rocky lotus]

i cannot stand fighting bosses on tiny platforms

[leaden delta]

ok woah

[rocky jolt]

nah i would devour that shit in one bite

[sharp urchin]

Radiance is a fire fight...

[fiery burrow]

stumbling into Sands of Karak trying to get the Crustnut was peak

[fresh oracle]

MEET LOST LACE!

Hi, I'm Lost Lace!

0 Strategy
0 Fun
7 Void tendrils on the screen preventing you from seeing wtf is going on

Encourage the player to dance with Lace and strategically attack when she's open? ❌
Have Lace teleport to the player while they're dashing away and deal 2 contact damage? ✅

"Hey, can we have an unique boss fight, I feel like since this is the final boss it should be the culmination of all of Silksong's themes and--"

"Fuck no you're getting the 3rd Lace fight but with more shit on the screen + she's black + 2 damage"

Give me liberty
Give me freedom
Give me artificial difficulty
Or I retire

Properly develop Lace's character and make us feel pity/bad/attached to her? ❌
Have her only meaningful interactions be us beating the living shit out of her. 3 times. ✅ (Surely this will be the perfect final boss!)
-# "B-But if you analyze Lace hard enough you'll find--"
if and when but never is

[exotic cedar]

Lost lace is prob one of my least favorite final boss, and i don't play much videogames that much

[earnest drift]

if lost lace used the exact same void attacks as every other enemy it would be awful I agree

but they’re changed to be consistent and much more fun to dodge

[somber ledge]

Jello with meat inside? With Crustnuts somewhere within it? Okay then..

[rocky jolt]

pollup pouch ahh textwall

[earnest drift]

I agree
lost lace is just better

[leaden delta]

ehhh

[fresh oracle]

sorry to all my lace fans pls dont kill me

[rocky jolt]

i dont like radiance second phase

[exotic cedar]

Lost lace music is cool though

[leaden delta]

maybe? only reason would be base rad is just too easy

[rocky lotus]

same

[leaden delta]

but that makes sense

but I like just about everything more gameplay wise from rad

[rocky jolt]

holy cat and mouse chase

[earnest drift]

lost lace doesn’t have artificial difficulty

[leaden delta]

ESPECIALLY plats. plats is the single best intentional design choice tc has made with a boss

[exotic cedar]

Lost lace is the only thing in silksong that lagged my laptop

[rocky lotus]

i dont even know what artificial difficulty is at this point

[leaden delta]

fuck plats is so good im so sad every fight in silksong is fought on a line tool

[rocky jolt]

gamer slurs!

[devout oracle]

tried out steel mode
died to moss mother

[exotic cedar]

Plats is fine to me

[sharp urchin]

Don't dash away. The rest of the argument seems to be about the boss being reused, which I agree sucks. If by artificial difficulty you mean double damage, have you tried fighting her on no double damage mod? It's a joke

[fresh oracle]

it's a subjective term but i consider it when a game developer has no idea how to make a boss difficult so they just add random stuff and make each attack deal insane damage so it's hard

[sharp urchin]

lmao real

[earnest drift]

lost lace was better than fighting a god as the final boss for the 5th time with projectile spam

[rocky lotus]

savage beastfly 2

[fresh oracle]

honestly i dont even have the issue with the double damage... except for the contact damage

[sharp urchin]

artificial difficulty: The hard mode which makes enemies deal 1.5x dmg and have 1.5x hp

[earnest drift]

lost lace contact damage is very easy to avoid

[rocky jolt]

delete lace 1 tbh

[exotic cedar]

I just wish lost lace was more unique

[sharp urchin]

Have you tried... Not ramming yourself into the enemy?

[sharp urchin]

Same

[fresh oracle]

gifs aren't allowed

but im ngl you sound like a redditor

[worldly umbra]

yeah but what if the boss runs into you with no indication

[rocky jolt]

end of act 3 complaining about double damage is insane

[sharp urchin]

How dare you

[rocky jolt]

only karmelita does that

[earnest drift]

I don’t think lost lace’s screen clutter is any more of an issue than any other boss

[sharp urchin]

When does she do that? (unless you're running away from her)

[leaden delta]

tl
tl
tl
tl
tl
Tl
tlord

[earnest drift]

uhhhh lace is a far better villain than radiance she just doesn’t have as much aura

[worldly umbra]

thats the neat thing she dosent

[leaden delta]

fuck tl walk why does that exist

I’ve lost r5 attempts to that

[sharp urchin]

RIP

[fresh oracle]

Difference is that everything in the fight deals insane damage, not to mention with the clutter and Lace being extremely fast it is difficult to remain calm and figure out a way to attack her.

Not to mention you'll likely be down a couple of masks in this phase so it makes it even more of a pain in the ass.

[sharp urchin]

I'm confused

[charred ruin]

Its not bad if you just cling to the right side of the arena

I only got hit about 17 times in my last run

[rocky jolt]

so basically traitor lord is the closest thing to a silksong boss in hk

[leaden delta]

uhh I don’t think the clutter is an issue with the attacks I think it’s the setting

things are pretty hard to differentiate in that arena relatively

[earnest drift]

isn’t 2 dmg normal by now
fast bosses are considered good, everyone loves pv and nkg

[lusty grove]

Which is faster: Hollow Knight 100% (not 112%) or Silksong Any% (no major glitches)?

[earnest drift]

yeah remaining calm is hard but the same goes for every hard boss (except absolute radiance because she keeps teleporting away)

[fresh oracle]

pure vessel for the most part had slow attacks which gave you a chance to counterattack

[sharp urchin]

Real, they should've added more contrast between the attacks and background

[fresh oracle]

The best way to deal with Lost Lace is to counterattack her attacks, and to never leave her a chance to get an opening, but oops-- she teleported to you, and now you're getting 💥ed.

[charred ruin]

You can hit her about once for every attack, you just have to be patient

[sharp urchin]

Any% way faster

[earnest drift]

so does lost lace

[lavish apex]

it absolutely is but not consistently

[lusty grove]

I mean, Silksong is a big game

[earnest drift]

she never teleports onto you, she punishes blindly running away

[sharp urchin]

And the shortest route is still short-ish

[rocky jolt]

you only get telefragged if you be stupid and run away from her attacks

[lusty grove]

Ok, so which is faster: Hollow Knight 112% or Silksong Any% (Sister of the Void ending)?

[fresh oracle]

Nottt really. Her attacks are fast and since she's way smaller than nightmare twink and white vessel you have to get closer to her in order to attack her.

[worldly umbra]

guys this is so funny

[sharp urchin]

I am unsure, check speedrun records, but pretty sure true ending is faster than 112

[magic narwhal]

Cogwork time

[sharp urchin]

gl

[meager storm]

anyone have any challenge run ideas for silksong? ive done low% and double enemies

[sharp urchin]

Remember to get the oil

[exotic cedar]

Not playing silksong

[sharp urchin]

Architect crest with no tools. Steel soul too if it's too easy

[lavish apex]

for every attack that forms a void mass on the ground if it ends up overlapping with her visually the telegraph for whatever her next attack is becomes unreadable

[fresh oracle]

run away from her attacks
I don't see why this is unnatural -- hot take. There's a difference between running away from the boss and simply dashing away because an attack is coming your way and you need to dodge it.

Lost Lace is extremely fast and punishes you, a lot. Not to mention the fight just feels.. bland, which only adds to the frustration for reasons aftermentioned.

[lavish apex]

that doesn't happen very often though

[plush plover]

both WRs are about the same

[meager storm]

wait architects is good tho how is it a challenge run

[exotic cedar]

Also the thing i don't like about ll is that you can heal wayyy to easy

[plush plover]

112% APB is a minute faster

[charred ruin]

Its not hard if you play defensively

[rocky lotus]

you could not have timed this any worse

[dull ermine]

any%, hk 100% and silksong te are kinda close tho

[sharp urchin]

If you just dash away when she's attacking, she won't have time to tp unless you keep sprinting

[strange knot]

Sisters of void WR is 2:49:xx(not legit cuz of couriers mod) and idk 112% wr

[charred ruin]

I make plenty of mistakes but i still lived just fine

[rocky lotus]

wait nvm

[dull ermine]

didn't biggy get 2:48

[sharp urchin]

Because as far as I know, it relies entirely on tools to function

[dull ermine]

also hk is probably a lot more optimized

[strange knot]

Wait fr? I thought CYV has wr still

[worldly umbra]

slap% where you slap everyone you can in the game (nuu, grindle, yarnaby)

[fresh oracle]

okay im not gonna lie lost lace's ost slaps ill give it that

[dull ermine]

no it doesn't, also architects makes the game incredibly easy so

[lavish apex]

you don't get telefragged for just dashing away when she's right in front of you

[meager storm]

do yall think triple enemies is possible

[sharp urchin]

Cursed crest steel soul then?

[lavish apex]

you have to hold sprint for a bit

[sharp urchin]

Yes

[dull ermine]

it still has better stats than reapers too even without considering red tools

[strange knot]

Oh yeah. TE wr is 2:48:26

[lusty grove]

112%: 2:49:59
SotV: 2:50:36
Hollow Knight 112% is faster than Silksong Any% SotV ending by less than 1 minute

[plush plover]

nebula could very well get both WRs honestly

[dull ermine]

sotv is faster at 2:48 smth and it's less optimized

[sharp slate]

definetely i got to LL on quad enemies

[sharp urchin]

Wait a few weeks and it'll be the other way around

[strange knot]

The real WR TE is 2:48:26

[somber ledge]

I have a hivesteel needle now. 😮 I feel so fancy. 🙂 I bet I can defeat the strongest of enemies now!

[strange knot]

It just isnt valid cuz of couriers mod

[lusty grove]

Oh. Then yeah Silksong Any% SotV is faster

[sharp urchin]

Good luck lmao

[fresh oracle]

off topic but oh my god the whiplash from playing silksong after playing hollow knight is so fucking real

the amount of times i tried to dash through my enemy and got hurt as a result

or i tried to desolate dive

[charred ruin]

I didnt really have that issue

[strange knot]

Same

[charred ruin]

the whiplash going back to hk after playing silksong is real tho

[plush plover]

technically if you wanted to count AG runs hollow knight 112% APB is an hour faster...

[sharp urchin]

I didn't touch hollow knight since silksong was announced, and it helped me forget the muscle memory

[charred ruin]

Like bro where is my harpoon

[plush plover]

an hour and a half even

[charred ruin]

And the fact i have to spam dash instead of holding dash

[strange knot]

I 112%d hk like 1 day before silksong

[lusty grove]

Btw I think everything dealing double damage in Silksong is not that big of a deal cuz healing is so much easier most of the time

[rocky lotus]

I felt the same it feels so much worse to control

[dull ermine]

yeah

[charred ruin]

god the knight feels so slow if there isnt a flat piece of area to crystal dash in

[earnest drift]

I am struggling to understand how this is a bad thing

[somber ledge]

I can kill one of those giant knights before the cogwork dancers in 8 hits!!

[exotic cedar]

I did p5 and then started silksong

[charred ruin]

Yeah and you get to heal midair instead of being forced to staying on the ground

[earnest drift]

I don’t want to just whale on the boss, I want to think

[sharp slate]

the main problem is it raises the intial difficulty curve imo, double damage in silksong just makes beginning aspects of silksong harder imo (though it is needed from a design perspective)

[dull ermine]

also silksong has architects crest which completely trivializes every boss encounter asides from some shell shards

[charred ruin]

All to heal only 1 mask

[strange knot]

Wait tf is that argument😭. You need to get close to deal damage? Yes of course you need

[tidal glade]

https://youtu.be/ofzf1C3shmY?si=ySJxXBwsW5Q8SPt5

A methodical way to defeat her is to let her come to u and know how to respond to each of her atks

[exotic cedar]

Also getting parried by lace is like free dmg

[lusty grove]

Free damage for us, cuz her parry is so damn easy to dodge

[sharp slate]

I only got two problems with LL for combat specfic, its the overlap of black on black attacks (saw blobs + tendrils) for example and tendrils behind you into uppercut attack

[rocky lotus]

Its more so because shes so short it makes her alot harder to hit

[lavish apex]

most bosses are definitely well balanced around it although it can feel pretty oppressive in exploration

[terse cloak]

i bet it is

[tidal glade]

Yah, just double jump dodges both counterattacks

[fresh oracle]

My point is that you can't compare her to nkg and pv because they're fundmentally different bosses. (+ different mechanics). The Knight has access to shadow dash which allows you to basically bypass any attacks they do during that duration + deal damage with you have sharp shadow, not to mention access to desolate dive and abyss shrek, while Lost Lace is way more punishing since you have to get closer to her in order to attack her, but her attacks are quicker and her hitbox is smaller, making it easier to lost her and get hit as a result.

@strange knot nottt my pointt.

[exotic cedar]

Yeah

[strange knot]

Oh, I misunderstood i guess

[fresh oracle]

even though i struggled like a bitch with NKG, once you get the fundmentals down the boss is relatively simple, same with PV.

[earnest drift]

bosses are bosses
and lost lace is so consistent that this isn't an issue

[lavish apex]

she's pretty similar to pv i feel like

[dull ermine]

dude lost lace literally has a free healing place for 90% of the fight

[lavish apex]

in terms of pacing

[terse cloak]

and even it if takes you forever to understand a bosses movement and counter that(me autism/adhd moment), you'll eventually beat them no problem. I find some bosses easier in silksong than hollow knight

[fresh oracle]

healing is never an issue in silksong

[rocky lotus]

Yeah i dont like that i wish it was changed

[sharp urchin]

Sharp shadow sucks. Certain spells are replaced by others, and LL isn't made with shade cloak in mind. It isn't a copy, but they are similar

[dull ermine]

not true at all

[fresh oracle]

no genuinely who is struggling with healing

[sharp slate]

i think LL is similar to PV in pacing but is nowhere near consistent, LL has some weird consistency stuff for hitless imo

[exotic cedar]

Things i don't like about ll is how its way easy to heal,how it feels just lace 2 + void and how it is a third fucking lace fight

The fight doesn't feel unique

[dull ermine]

the void waves are silly

[exotic cedar]

They also should just remove the walls, maybe make the arena but smaller

[lusty grove]

Yeah, every regular enemy dealing double damage was a bit unnecessary, but it's good in a way since it makes the player get used to it faster

[tight viper]

Fireborn in his newest video

[lavish apex]

which part?

[sharp slate]

and remove the void waterfall please xD

[cunning geode]

team cherry really said "no sharpe but you gotta fight lace thrice"

[fresh oracle]

sharp shadow is the easiest way to get damage in if your main strat is to just shadow dash through any attacks you're able to

[lusty grove]

If everything deals double damage, you stop caring about double damage

[earnest drift]

lost lace is better than radiance because:

1. she's a better character and more compelling villain
2. you're actually saving people by defeating her and not just leaving a dead kingdom to continue to rot
3. she is better built up
4. her attacks actually come from her instead of coming from offscreen
5. there aren't piss yellow orbs that ruin the aesthetic
6. chasing her feels like chasing a person and not just going after a hitbox to hit it
7. only two projectile attacks

[rocky lotus]

Normal enemies dealing double damage

[lusty grove]

No they said "Sharpe later"

[terse cloak]

i struggle with some bosses but most of the time im good

[cunning geode]

No. Sharpe.

[rocky lotus]

Ik they did in hk but it was few and far between

[dull ermine]

the thing with healing in silksong is that if you mess up you're literally dead for the majority of the game

[terse cloak]

flukemonga dealing double hearts is still pretty combatable

[sharp urchin]

I prefer radiance. Some people just like projectiles more than swords

[exotic cedar]

There arent piss orbs to ruin aesthetics, now theres black projectiles infront of black background. Same shit different toilet

[sharp slate]

Yea fuck no, radiance had actual progression in the fight, not a rematch of the same moves copied and pasted. Absrad doesnt have an attack that is just wait in the air for 10 seconds. LL just gets easier as the fight progresses into phase 3 and 4

[lavish apex]

ah yeah i think sometimes it's justified there too but like, most of the time its not. i would like it if multihits were gone from all normal enemies except for like the miniboss-esque ones

[terse cloak]

i still believe overcharming was a good way to prepare for double damage

[sharp slate]

LL is a good fight but no where near radiances fight

[earnest drift]

the climb is longer than 10 seconds

[terse cloak]

HEEEEEY

[lavish apex]

and stuff like flintflame flyers just do not need to do 2 masks

[exotic cedar]

True

[sharp slate]

The climb isnt a do nothing part of the fight though...

[terse cloak]

it might not have helped yall but it helped me

[lusty grove]

Lace is both Silksong Hornet and Silksong Hollow Knight

[dull ermine]

i think silksong is better than hk in a lot of ways but I like the simplicity and atmosphere better in hk more

[earnest drift]

it's just jumping upwards

[rocky lotus]

Silksong is a goated game but i wish they would just nerf the normal enemies its kinda annoying sometimes

[earnest drift]

swords are projectiles

[hollow abyss]

She is not better than radiance

1. She's just not a good ending boss, not a villain, and get's overshadowed by gms
2. U literally free hallownest from inffection
3. We all thought it was going to be gms 2.0
4. Bs argument
5. Yes, we sure love reusing the same attack for the billionth time

[ancient mortar]

Lace is an antagonist maybe but hardly a villain

[sharp slate]

yea not like there arent active attacks going down, at least something actively makes the fight unique (tbh it would be more intresting with more variation tbh)

[sharp urchin]

I meant swords as in melee attacks

[terse cloak]

like oro and mato type of melee?

[sharp urchin]

yes

[terse cloak]

ah

[unkempt steeple]

I prefer lace over hk hornet but I prefer thk over lace honestly

[lusty grove]

Playing hk after sk is like having lunch at a restaurant with 3 Michelin stars then having pizza for dinner

[hollow abyss]

Her swords are big , and got a lot of indication.
The big problem with projectiles is when they are tiny as shit and u sometimes don't see it cus u gotta deal with something else

[exotic cedar]

Radiance at least felt interesting

[lavish apex]

not really

[terse cloak]

that sounds like an awesome day wym

[hollow abyss]

True

[worldly umbra]

when did yall play silksong i played on release date but ive been seeing some people who are uploading 1st playthrus right now so im asking this because of that

[fresh oracle]

1. The issue with Lace as a character is that the game expects you to hold some emotional attachment to her, even though the only real interactions you get with her is beating the shit out of her, while yes Radiance literally only appears at the end, she represents the entire infection as a whole, which means it's narratively sastifying to see her at the end of the boss fight, since she represents the themes of HK, while Lace really doesn't.

Silksong main theme is motherhood, and Lace is meant to be a mirror to Hornet, this also means that in order for this to work, the player has to actually care about Lace and her story, which is why it doesn't work in this instance.
2. Yes, but ultimately the main fight is about Lace.
3. HEAVY DISAGREE for reasons above
4. Does it? I have to check
5. I lowkey laughed for a bit but i think it's suppose to be sun lasers.
6. Not really?

[terse cloak]

ive been slowly playing since release since... i have a job

[dull ermine]

silksongs story is way too cryptic and lacks any meaningful depth or clarity to tbe good

[sharp urchin]

I cared about Lace, c'mon

[lusty grove]

Yes, because both games are great, but compared to Silksong, Hollow Knight is kinda mid

[earnest drift]

lace is complex and has ways you can sympathise with her, radiance has the depth of a sheet of paper
what use is freeing an already dead kingdom
no one thought that lmao
radiance only has 3 attacks that depend on her position, the rest haven't got anything to do with her
radiance reuses attacks as well

[unkempt steeple]

what

[terse cloak]

and my job exhausts me some times(working in a nursing home is no joke)

[strange knot]

I realized I dislike simplicity after silksong

[lusty grove]

I see, you've never wasted 25 rosaries in the Underworks

[fresh oracle]

radiance doesn't really need depth in order to be an amazing villain, considering she's the big bad.

[worldly umbra]

pointcrow literally figured it out without watching mossbags videos i think

[sharp slate]

I will make the point that she does have some bullshit attacks as well, its not all sunshine and rainbows from her moveset https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586931790208434203/1467735787301769317/Untitled_video_-_Made_with_Clipchamp_1.mp4?ex=69934338&is=6991f1b8&hm=11f362c9dbbd9a95cdc24f9efebcc963dc9fa7d8b7e7c0406d4280d941efee63& (just one example)

[dull ermine]

I'm more so talking about the main story rather than the lore

[terse cloak]

giant moth fight goated

[unkempt steeple]

I didn't care for radience I prefer gms honestly

[sharp urchin]

We are talking about Hollow Knight's sequel, and you hate the story being cryptic? Dam

[rocky lotus]

The radiance is just pure wrath

[exotic cedar]

That attack feels very unnecessary

[lavish apex]

fucking hate when this happens yeah

[unkempt steeple]

fight and story wise

[sharp urchin]

Whenever she drops below you know the tendrils are coming, you could have known

[dull ermine]

lore is one thing, but how is anyone supposed to understand the ending of hk authentically

[strange knot]

Tf was that

[exotic cedar]

Being abandoned is a scary thought

[sharp slate]

That is 100% incorrect lmfao

[earnest drift]

why doesn't it work
many people cared about lace and the final boss worked for them

what themes does hk even have, "infection" isn't a theme

[sharp urchin]

But yea, they should've changed that

[fresh oracle]

call me an idiot if you want but i ain't gonna lie it took me to long to realize what the fuck was going on because hollow knight's wording is something i legit couldn't understanding

[lavish apex]

that problem exactly is the big problem with the fight

[sharp slate]

#confinentlyincorrect, its not 100% when tendrils appear when she drops its a chance of it happening

[hollow abyss]

What use is fighting a booring boss that is used for the third time
Lace was literally just existing for me, i couldn't give less of a shit abt lace
I guess that u never played hollow knight cus i never saw radiance v1 and v2 before the final radiance bossfight

[lavish apex]

radiance doesn't have any flaws like that really

[earnest drift]

you saw where she dived and decided to dash over it

[strange knot]

?what

[lavish apex]

not regular rad at least

[exotic cedar]

I don't really care about lace tbh

[tight viper]

1. That's subjective so can't really debate that
2. You're not leaving it to rot, you're allowing it to rest. The infection is causing it to rot, killing the infection stops that
3. There's some solid hints leading to the Radiance, like the statue at Hallownest's Crown, the constant references to some forgotten light, and the words of the Seer during her ascent
4. Plenty of Radiance's attacks come from her, and none of them come from offscreen aside from the lasers, which are being shot by her
5. LL also has plenty of visual issues
6. That's the point, she's a higher being, an immensely powerful one at that. She's supposed to feel unlike any other fight in the game, and she does that well.
7. Lace is a fencer, Radiance isn't

[hardy tangle]

what if team cherry dies and sea of sorrow never comes out

[hollow abyss]

Only lace shippers care abt lace

[sharp slate]

yea sorry i didnt see through black on black attack

[unkempt steeple]

weavers aren't gms' daughters, first sinner said she lied when she called them daughters

[strange knot]

I like lace fights but Idc about the character itself

[tidal glade]

Doesn't everyone know in phase 3-4 that wherever she dove down there's gonna be a tentacle pillar?

[sharp slate]

Actively defending black on black attacks is crazy

[exotic cedar]

Same

[sharp urchin]

I thought it always happened in late phase after a projectile attack, sorry if I was wrong

[stone falcon]

what if the water in verdania had muck maggots

[exotic cedar]

I like lace 2 the most

[sharp slate]

its not guarenteed

[hardy tangle]

what if sea of sorrow dies and team cherry never comes out

[rocky lotus]

They arent related. The weavers are not daughters of gms

[earnest drift]

she's very different the third time
if you don't care about lace that's fine you don't have to finish the game
radiance is generally a boring villain and defeating her may as well be breaking down an unconscious force of nature

[hollow abyss]

Lace 2 is GREAT, LL is awful

[worldly umbra]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586931790208434203/1471317529195581614/meme-american-psycho.gif

[lusty grove]

Letting go of the past, sacrifices, abusive parents forcing their children to be what they want them to be

[lavish apex]

lace 2 is better than lost lace yeah

[earnest drift]

it's not hard if you pay attention

[tight viper]

Lace 2 is incredibly well done, LL is fine but a bit disappointing

[sharp urchin]

She is a beautiful and fun fight, wish LL was more like her

[stable pilot]

Hello fellow Brazilian

[hardy tangle]

https://klipy.com/gifs/truth-nuke-true-3

[sharp slate]

oh fuck off, you are an ass

[strange knot]

[tight viper]

The same can be said for the Radiance orbs

[stable pilot]

Lace 2 my beloved

[lusty grove]

Howdy

[earnest drift]

those are amazing themes that are all represented by the pale king and none of which are presented by radiance

[stable pilot]

Good

[strange knot]

Lace 2 is fun, lace 1 is fun. Lost lace is fun

[sharp slate]

imagine talking shit to someone that is actually better than you at the game

[earnest drift]

i agree

[hollow abyss]

"she is very different"
Okay, let's do lace but we give her a projectile that almost every char in act 3 got

[sharp slate]

i hate being elitist but i think i deserve to be here

[earnest drift]

except they're consistent

[exotic cedar]

As i said, its same shit different toilet

[rocky jolt]

yall would 100% eat up a third trobbio fight

[rocky lotus]

I def would not

[exotic cedar]

Why didn't tc learn from the radiance that same color + same color = bad

[earnest drift]

i can consistently beat lost lace no hit and i think it's a very well telegraphed fight

[lusty grove]

Yeah, true. The Radiance is less of a character and more of a force to be defeated

[stable pilot]

I can only understand if it's the "get a life argument", although that one is shitty

[hollow abyss]

Still lame af

[fresh oracle]

yeah i would ngl

difference is trobbio isn't the final boss

[exotic cedar]

I don't want fucking refights in silksong

[sharp urchin]

Radiance orbs are easily trackable wdym

[willow turtle]

IVE BEEN FIGJTING GROAL FOR DO LONG

[tight viper]

What's the point about the "piss yellow orbs" then? They're orbs of light, they fit the aesthetic just fine.

[hardy tangle]

what if void was brown and lost lace was brown

[earnest drift]

then why are pure vessel, nkg and absrad loved

[exotic cedar]

Sometimes it can spawn in you

[sharp urchin]

Which crest do you use?

[strange knot]

There are already TOO many tbh

[rocky jolt]

because trobbio is not important in the lore

[willow turtle]

I KEEP GETTING TO HIS VENGEFUL SPIRIT PHASE

[lusty grove]

The problem is that the background is also piss yellow

[sharp urchin]

It has a generous spawn animation

[worldly umbra]

poop lace hahahahahaha 😂

[earnest drift]

they just look ugly, everything else is a light gold or warm white, why are the orbs piss yellow

[sharp slate]

I can do it pretty consistently as well, but it doesnt mean that bad stuff doesnt happen in that fight, another example is tendrils + uppercut is VERY annoying to respond to in that fight

[earnest drift]

hunter

[exotic cedar]

2 refights is fine. 3 is where i draw the line

[tidal glade]

I think it's guaranteed if she somersaults on the dive

I may be wrong but that's wut I observe

[sharp urchin]

Any tips for the jump attack?

[hardy tangle]

i was thinking of chocolate? youre so immature and unsophisticated

[lavish apex]

refights are fine, i think the only time it's truly awful in either game is beastfly 2

[hollow abyss]

Nkg, pure vessel and absrad are optional bossfights that have no relevance for the story whatsoever, and they are cool

[sharp slate]

I'll have to double check, maybe thats the case

[strange knot]

Sbf 2 is better than sbf 1 btw

[earnest drift]

i'm pretty sure that makes them bad bossfights

[hardy tangle]

absrad is a cake made of shit

[lusty grove]

And yet no one talks about White Defender's 5 refights

[stable pilot]

I think that the orbs of light and despair™ are not as bad as lace attacks in the sense of being sightreadable

[sharp urchin]

ConfidentlyIncorrect

[tight viper]

The way he pointed that out indicated that there wasn't a visual clarity issue with LL, so that couldn't have been the point

[worldly umbra]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1228468065633570967/1416962383791919126/togif_20.gif

[hollow abyss]

Refights are cool when u don't have to do them 3 times

[rocky lotus]

Lost kin and failed champion felt like filler tbh

[earnest drift]

get out of the way? idk which one you mean

[exotic cedar]

Pv and absrad good. Nkg can explode

[marsh ibex]

abs rad is literally the gate to an ending what do you mean

[earnest drift]

just
pay attention

[sharp urchin]

When she is on the ground, then jump up at me while I'm above her giving me 0.1s to react before hitting me

[strange knot]

Sbf 2 is overhated as fuck.

[sharp slate]

You said when she drops not summersaults

[marsh ibex]

“No relevance to the story whatsoever” 🤨

[lusty grove]

Oh. Well, that's MY point now

[sharp slate]

Fuck off, my god you really are an ass

[sharp urchin]

Same shit different toilet

[lavish apex]

those are both good fights

[fresh oracle]

chill i doubt they're trying to be rude

[exotic cedar]

The lace glaze never stops for him

[hollow abyss]

It makes them a good bossfight. Having to redo a boss u alr beated before because "they got stronger" is just lame

[fresh oracle]

i can respect the lace glaze ngl

[lusty grove]

They are relevant to the plot, but Absrad is kinda meaningless to the story

[sharp slate]

"just pay attention" basically saying "git gud"

[tight viper]

Alright, that's fair, shading's a bit bolder than it could be

[earnest drift]

this can be said about sisters of battle, absrad, nkg, pv

[hardy tangle]

grimm shouldve been 1 long fight where he turns into nkg as a 2nd phase

[hollow abyss]

One thing is having to redo a boss, other thing is beeing able to redo a boss @earnest drift

[tidal glade]

What I recommend is to always keep a bit of distance from her and u can reliably react dash away from her even if ur already airborne

[rocky lotus]

They're fine but they kinda feel lazy as refights

[sharp slate]

im tired of people acting like hot shit on this server actively being rude for not reason, its just sad

[lusty grove]

Btw plot and story are two different things and those terms are not interchangeable

[lavish apex]

it will never stop being the franchise worst boss for me

[exotic cedar]

What's with tc and refights. I started to hate refights more for some reason

[sharp urchin]

Ok ty, also just curious since I heard this but never tested, is it true you can dash through enemies if you pogo them right before?

[hollow abyss]

Sisters of battle is not needed to finish the story

[lavish apex]

it's insultingly ass

[stable pilot]

What

[exotic cedar]

I like pv and absrad purely because of difficulty

[tight viper]

They both have visual clarity issues, LL has the void tendrils at the edge of the arena and Rad has the orb spawns

[earnest drift]

i was seldom above her in this instance, i'd either dash away or parry

[hollow abyss]

U don't have to beat her

[strange knot]

Zango:
marmu:

[earnest drift]

pantheon of hallownest idk haha

[sharp urchin]

ok ty

[sharp slate]

LL arena also has stupid void waterfall on the left hand side as well, which is annoying tbh

[lusty grove]

Yeah, I hated it both times, why do they keep doing that with final bosses?

[stable pilot]

I like pv because it's fun and I like absrad because it is fun

[hollow abyss]

Do u need to beat the pantheon to get all achievements/finish the story?

[worldly umbra]

me using words from chatgpt i learned

[sharp slate]

@tidal glade im gonna load up silksong and do some LL tests im curious about summersault theory

[stable pilot]

Yeah that's the worst part, although I think that only appears in phase 3

[strange knot]

Yeah, I agree with that. Sometimes you can’t literally see where tf she is

[earnest drift]

this is the only valid criticism that has been made against lost lace

[hollow abyss]

No, because it was an DLC

[lavish apex]

THERE ARE ONLY ONE OF THOSE IN THE GAME AND NEITHER OF THEM HAVE RANDOM ADDS THAT SHOOT 2 MASK LINGERING PROJECTILES THAT BLEND INTO THE BG

[tidal glade]

If ur fast and close enough to the enemy, yes. Tho certain crests make it easier to achieve like witch or hunter

[exotic cedar]

I dislike nkg because it isnt that good and i dislike lost lace because it isnt fun because its lace 2 + void

[lavish apex]

beastfly 2 is DOG
SHIT

[earnest drift]

you don't need to beat lost lace to finish the story either

[worldly umbra]

ive honestly never seen anyone use the word seldom lmao

[stable pilot]

Phase 3/4 if you consider void waves a phase

[hollow abyss]

U literally do

[lusty grove]

Absolute Radiance has little to no relevance to the story. However, it is very relevant to the plot.

[sharp slate]

yea only phase 3 and four thankfully

[rocky lotus]

Also sbf2 commits the sin of sometimes going off screen when charging

[sharp urchin]

ok ty

[earnest drift]

just end on act 2

[exotic cedar]

I'm changing my opinion about lace more and more

[tight viper]

Just some oversights with the intended execution, ig. The aesthetic they're going for is clear, but it just doesn't perfectly translate into gameplay

[strange knot]

Thread storm:
sharp dart:
pale nails(if you fight sbf in act 3):

[exotic cedar]

I started to hate her more

[marsh ibex]

You also don’t have to beat the radiance either
or traitor lord
or go through white palace
or get void heart

[stable pilot]

Well those are the 2 most confusing phases so it doesn't help much

[earnest drift]

also did you know a higher percentage of sk players bothered to finish act 3 than the percentage of players that bothered to beat normal radiance

[hollow abyss]

To get the true ending, you do

[lavish apex]

i am aware of the counterplay that doesn't stop it from being piss

[strange knot]

Silk spear:

[earnest drift]

this is because silksong is more enjoyable to finish than hk

[strange knot]

Cog flies:

[hollow abyss]

"just don't get the true ending/ dont plat the game"

[strange knot]

Cross stitch:

[sharp urchin]

You don't have to play the game. If lategame content is unenjoyable, drop the game

[sharp slate]

honestly only other complaint i got about LL is this attack combo (uppercut with tendrils)

[lusty grove]

There is no "true ending", it's the Dream No More ending

[hollow abyss]

Stupid af

[lavish apex]

bro is just waffling

[marsh ibex]

again, not a true ending, but regardless
if your metric for being worthwhile is needing to be done for an ending your point about sisters of battle and abs rad is false

[tight viper]

Not necessarily, there was a massive amount of hype for SK compared to HK

[stable pilot]

My main complaint is that void waves ruins pacing

[exotic cedar]

I hope sea of sorrow doesn't add new achivements. I do NOT want to play silksong

[lusty grove]

Then wtf are you doing here

[sharp urchin]

REAL! They should make it take 5s through the transition

[exotic cedar]

Its fun to talk here

[tight viper]

I'm willing to bet the number of people who picked up HK once, said "not for me", then put it back down is a lot less than the number for SK

[sharp slate]

fair tbh, its a free heal at least when you are new to the fight lol

[strange knot]

Don’t play. Why do you need to get all achievements?

[lavish apex]

shit argument

[exotic cedar]

If dead cells server was alive i would go talk there

[stable pilot]

Everywhere is a free heal lmao

[sharp urchin]

It is. Why don't you like the game though?

[worldly umbra]

i want SoS to add at least 4 more achievments honestly

[exotic cedar]

Because achivements look good on my profile

[tidal glade]

Yah, dash down, clawline to the left or parrying is the only counterplay also in the heat of the battle it's hard to decide wut to do

[sharp slate]

yea fair, air is pretty free in LL fight to heal especially if you double jump off wall its guarenteed i feel

[exotic cedar]

I like it. But it does really have some flaws

[strange knot]

Fair

[unkempt steeple]

I might be hoping for too much but I hope sos adds a cidadel level area

[rocky jolt]

lifeblood spire gotta be a proper late game platforming challenge

[exotic cedar]

I will prob not get them though

[stable pilot]

You can get hit from the guided missiles or darkness and doom™

[rocky lotus]

You are on way too much hopium scale it back a little

[lusty grove]

That 8.3% achievement be looking very shiny on my Steam page

[unkempt steeple]

trueeee none of the platforming sections in sk hit like white palace

[exotic cedar]

Lifeblood tower will be like the lighthouse from dead cells and then i will call it peaksong because that would be peak

[hollow abyss]

My metric for being worthless is not needing to be done. But beeing out of place, LL could be a cool bossfight if it wasn't the final one, it could be a good bossfight if it wasn't the third time we defeated the same char, it could be cool if she actually changed quite a bit.
I don't hate the fight because it's lace, i hate the fight cus it could be much better

[sharp urchin]

My only hope is a beautiful looking area, and at least 1 fun boss or enemy gauntlet

[unkempt steeple]

i hope it looks ugly and has no bosses or gauntlets

[marsh ibex]

well sure dislike lost lace all you want just use not bad arguments

[lusty grove]

Ngl if LL wasn't the final boss it'd suck ass

[willow turtle]

Ok ill beat groal tomorrow

[charred ruin]

you js gotta wait for her to telegraph an attack that isnt the homing missiles

[strange knot]

I would love platforming challenge in sk like pop. Surface climb suckass and you can’t change my mind

[rocky jolt]

ill take a boss at the end of it aslong as theres a bench before it

[stable pilot]

Yeah ik

[lusty grove]

Also I don't mind fighting Lace 3 times, the fight is fun, Lace is a cool character, and I'd fight her again

[lavish apex]

i love clawline into double jump 10 times

[exotic cedar]

There should be a chase sequence boss in silksong. Hornet has good fucking movement idk why it doesn't exist yet

[stable pilot]

I just said that it was an exception

[hollow abyss]

I can say the same abt deffending her

[velvet cape]

These are the moments that makes me wish hunter was still around

[charred ruin]

the only attacks that can hit you if you double jump from the arenas wall is her moulinet, void blobs and homing missiles

[unkempt steeple]

I find it quite satisying but it is pretty short, probably shorter than mount fay

[strange knot]

True. Like in ori

[charred ruin]

otherwise its pretty safe to be in the air

[marsh ibex]

you’re arguing whether she’s a bad boss with someone named lace and who has her as their pfp

why bother

[sharp urchin]

Abyss escape. Sprintmaster swift

[exotic cedar]

Those arent bosses

[strange knot]

boss

[tight viper]

Those aren't chases

[stable pilot]

Lost lace is a top tier boss

[sharp urchin]

Not everything needs to be a boss

[exotic cedar]

Like lighthouse from dead cells is my favorite

[charred ruin]

yeah only players would feel more inclined to fighting it instead 💀

[lusty grove]

LL's runback is one of the worst in the game cuz there are two damn cutscenes in a row

[rocky jolt]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1087207488274833550/1299571130180308992/attachment.gif

[rocky lotus]

Yes they are bro wdym

[unkempt steeple]

yeah I guess I'll just bet on one new boss and two new tools like hk dlcs

[velvet cape]

How are you supposed to kill a boss thats gonna chase you?

[hardy tangle]

good boss bad final boss

[tight viper]

??????

[sharp urchin]

Abyss escape is lava chasing you. Swift is just a race, but really, what's the difference between a chase and a race, they're both there to test your ability to be fast and run

[hollow abyss]

Just bored, honestly

[charred ruin]

there should be more lava escape sequences

[exotic cedar]

By fighting them? In areas after some time

[velvet cape]

Are you just gonna throw shit at it like fourth chorus

[sharp slate]

i think its fine to critique LL fight its good but not perfect *from combat perspective for me

[hardy tangle]

2 is enough

[stable pilot]

Main complaints with lost lace
1-I can't see
2-void waves

[lusty grove]

Imo it's a great final boss and would be horrible if it wasn't a final boss

[charred ruin]

nah i want more

[stable pilot]

No more complaints

[strange knot]

Make 1 phase of boss chasing you where you can’t hit it and than phase changes

[charred ruin]

i want more parkour areas like cogwork core

[rocky jolt]

idk why some people complain that silksong has ''boring arena design'' when theres multiple cool arenas that isnt just a flat ground

[velvet cape]

So the abyss escape but theres a boss at the end

[charred ruin]

void waves you just stick to the side of the wall? and just up your brightness

[rocky lotus]

I have never seen anyone complain abt this tbh

[stable pilot]

They ruin pacing

[viscid hollow]

Make the server be alive then bestie, u got this !

[sharp slate]

@tidal glade not guarenteed in phase 2 gonna test in phase 3

[rocky jolt]

there is people tho

[stable pilot]

The transition from phase 2 to 3 is so fucking long

[lusty grove]

Main complaints with Radiance:
1- I cant see
2- the spikes

[exotic cedar]

I suck at creating convos

[charred ruin]

i see it more as a break to use tools given how fast paced the fight is

[velvet cape]

I have sk platforming fucking sucks

[charred ruin]

i usually pop plasmium during the waves if i need it

[velvet cape]

For the most of the time

[sharp urchin]

It is guaranteed after an attack where she jumps out of void, doesn't touch ground, jump back down

[tight viper]

Chase doesn't really describe the abyss sequence, though. It's lava, not a giant angry bug, or some kinda construct, or anything. That's like calling a generic sidescroll level a chase

[rocky jolt]

team cherry how many more fakeout death bosses do you want in your game

[stable pilot]

It's just so damn slow it takes more time to kill than the boss itself

[hollow abyss]

My only problem w radiance is the ladder u gotta climb

[sharp slate]

Thats fucking weird that its all those conditions my god

[tight viper]

Technically correct, I guess, but that's it

[sharp urchin]

Fair enough, but both chases and abyss escape are epic asf

[strange knot]

The only platforming that genuinely sucks is surface climb

[lusty grove]

Nah, I liked that section, it's a cool one

[stable pilot]

I just think if you die on lost lace, gms is already on the floor and there's no more cutscene

[stable pilot]

Cutscene from 2 to 3

[velvet cape]

Right because most of the game doesnt have any platforming at all

[sharp urchin]

It makes sense, it happens if and only if the boss did a projectile based attack since those typically aren't a big threat

[velvet cape]

It only has platforms

[tight viper]

Oh yeah the abyss escape is really cool, but imagine if the bell eater had some kinda chase sequence that ends with the Bell Beast saving the day

[stable pilot]

Because it pretty much ruins the pacing of the boss

[hardy tangle]

absrad after teleporting off your screen and shooting projetciles that require iframes

[lavish apex]

i've never really had visual issues with normal radiance

[hollow abyss]

Not so cool for me at least, but i could be confusing w any rad. I don't remember the speed correcly

[lusty grove]

Sometimes I feel like everyone hates the parts of the game that I like the most

[stable pilot]

Also lace is way too dark and doesn't contrast too much with her attacks or the background

[sharp slate]

she can do it grounded though as well though which is intresting, weird that theres a guarenteed version and an unguarenteed version

[sharp urchin]

Would be epic

[stable pilot]

That's the best ngl

[strange knot]

Straight up a lie. Many areas have unique platforming things

[stable pilot]

Oh actually not, it's mount fay

[exotic cedar]

Its very repetetive

[stable pilot]

It's also pretty short

[exotic cedar]

Jump from wall clawline and then uhmmmm double jump repeat

[velvet cape]

Yeah you are right its hornets moveset

[charred ruin]

completely optional btw

[stable pilot]

It can't get much repetitiveness if it is too short

[sharp urchin]

I enjoyed it!

[stable pilot]

Not if you want platinum/1000G

[sharp urchin]

You just described 90% of platformer games

[lusty grove]

Everyone here hates Lost Lace, everyone here hates Lost Verdania, everyone here hates Kratt, everyone here loves Choral Chambers, everyone here hates Surface Climb...
Everyone here hates the stuff I love

[strange knot]

They could’ve done something better with surface climb

[exotic cedar]

No in surface climb you have to do it like back to back

[sharp slate]

the tendrils just seem so inconsitent to me imo

[strange knot]

I love lost lace

[charred ruin]

at least it gives you something? all you get for path of pain is a short cutscene and its way harder too

[lavish apex]

surface climb is so boring

[lusty grove]

What about the rest?

[sharp urchin]

I like LL. I like Verdania. idk what Kratt is. I like Choral Chambers. Surface ascent is fun.

[stable pilot]

I agree with those except choral chambers and kratt

[velvet cape]

Path of pain isnt boring

[lusty grove]

Kratt is cute, I can't hate him

[stable pilot]

You get a journal entry that doesn't change anything

[hardy tangle]

my biggset problem with LL was the countering its so annoying hello can i hit the boss ermmmm it makes the boss feel more like a 1v1 shut up

[lavish apex]

kratt is a fucking ratt

[exotic cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/red-paper-coach-meme-gif-11221063440541197155

[rocky jolt]

at least have an achievement damn bruh

[strange knot]

I hate verdania
I don’t especially love choral chambers
I hate surface climb
I hate Kratt

[stable pilot]

You also get bragging rights

And path of pain is very fun

[viscid hollow]

I liked lost Verdania! It was probably one of the prettiest areas imo

[lusty grove]

Ik he's a creep but he's cute and I love playing Flea Juggle with him after beating him up

[charred ruin]

make it more fun by parrying her parry with cross stitch 🔥

[hardy tangle]

how mfs feel after saying they like the character people are supposed to hate

[stable pilot]

The gameplay of the area was amazing and I loved the enemies

[exotic cedar]

I don't like lost lace
Verdania is fine enemies and bosses fucking suck
Fuck kratt
Chambers is ok

[lavish apex]

verdania is whatever

[exotic cedar]

Seriously clover dancers is dissapointing and a biggest letdown of a boss

[stable pilot]

Ngl hitting her parry gives more opportunities to attack her

[strange knot]

Enemies just ruined verdania for me

[viscid hollow]

Exactly, it was cool to see little mini green princes every where and I liked getting the little fkin light things it was fun

[sharp urchin]

Should've been much tougher

[viscid hollow]

I enjoyed it

[lavish apex]

it's really pretty but palestag is a bottom 3 fight in the game and the enemies are annoying

[lusty grove]

If TC wanted me to hate Kratt they wouldn't have made his Flea Bounce design so cute

[stable pilot]

It's a letdown, but it's not bad

[exotic cedar]

True, it has like 2 phases. Cog dancers has 4

[viscid hollow]

The enemies are difficult, for sure

And clover dances is meh

[stable pilot]

The enemies are peak

[worldly umbra]

i wish clover dancers was clover dancer and he was more like traitor lord honestly

[viscid hollow]

But I still liked the area

[stable pilot]

They remind me of mantises, and I love all mantises

[viscid hollow]

I think they look cool but they are hard to fight

[velvet cape]

Yeah the little green things are fine until they gang up and destroy you, i also wish they explained a little better the light orbs

[lusty grove]

I would absolutely despise Kratt if he was real

[exotic cedar]

I can't tell the difference between verdania enemies 💀 all i know is that they teleport like a ton and look like the same

[strange knot]

Platforming in verdania would be fun if not these pieces of shit

[charred ruin]

the only thing i didnt like about verdania is the enemies chasing you around and some of the trap lilypads which seem to be random

[velvet cape]

That fucking bug that i hate

[viscid hollow]

True they do kinda vanish and then appear on u 😭

[strange knot]

Same

[final furnace]

facts

[tidal glade]

Isn't it the same with the dream orbs from the trees in HK?

[viscid hollow]

I ended up having to look the light orb things up but it was still different and I enjoy different

[tight viper]

Those guys suck, but these enemies are awful

[fiery burrow]

I like Kratt as a character

[strange knot]

YES WE NEED MORE ALITA HATE

[velvet cape]

Tbf they wouldnt have been that annoying if i hasnt gotten lost si many times in verdania

[viscid hollow]

I’d rather do lost verdania than bilewater

[strange knot]

THOSE GUYS ARE GENUINELY PAINFUL TO NOHIT

[viscid hollow]

I saw that X, don’t be a bitch put it back

[hardy tangle]

the King Roach fight would be so good if he didnt spam acid projectiles that drain your silk

[lavish apex]

i really wish coral gorge was kept as a fully explorable memory and coral tower was way shorter

[tight viper]

So many clawlines or pogos that looked perfect, but just completely fucking miss

[final furnace]

ok fine

[sharp urchin]

I misread...

[viscid hollow]

LOL okay sorry

[leaden delta]

oh hell yea surface climb hatred that shit sucks

[charred ruin]

sea of sorrow will bring back the aesthetic trust

[leaden delta]

fucking alitas

[hardy tangle]

path of pain was dlc so hpefully we get path of pain in silksong

[leaden delta]

fun fact! dont ask where they were on september 11 2001

[viscid hollow]

Coral tower SUCKED

[exotic cedar]

Coral tower best part of silksong fr fr

[lavish apex]

how could you not like walljump clawline double jump 10 times in a row

[viscid hollow]

That whole gauntlet needs to go in the trash

[strange knot]

Agreed

[stable pilot]

Am I the only one here that likes surface climb?

[charred ruin]

no

[viscid hollow]

Yes

[strange knot]

Idk about the best, I kinda liked bilewater more. But it’s definitely up there

[crimson escarp]

The surface IS the path of pain but it doesn’t have the same difficulty as path of pain

[barren dew]

Hi

[final furnace]

hi

[stable pilot]

Pvz mentioned

[strange knot]

Hello

[stable pilot]

Also hi

[worldly umbra]

where would silksongs path of pain even be? abyss?

[hardy tangle]

so its not path of pain

[velvet cape]

Yeah but the seer explains what they do and why you should do them while in sk they are just there to collect its only after a while you realize hey thats like in hk

[stable pilot]

Memory

[barren dew]

I love pvz rfl

[hardy tangle]

holy pfp

[strange knot]

Red memory

[stable pilot]

Did you play bfn?

[crimson escarp]

Well it’s the path of pain of silksong

[barren dew]

Hi

[stable pilot]

I love pvz bfn

[barren dew]

Unfortunately NO

[rocky lotus]

I hate bfn

[stable pilot]

It's on sale on xbox

[charred ruin]

i liked it besides the part with a bunch of imobas that you had to pogo cuz of just how little area there was to move without getting hit but otherwise i liked using clawline more often

[leaden delta]

I could. and it was easy. and it was just fucking laaaaameeee

[hardy tangle]

more like the white palace

[barren dew]

I have nothing except a PHONE

[final furnace]

a path of pain for silksong would not be good cuz of the variety of crests

[tidal glade]

Cradle I think

[stable pilot]

Ohhh that sucks

Maybe one day you will be able to play it

[barren dew]

https://tenor.com/view/byuntear-emoji-crying-emoji-sad-gif-26990812

[rocky lotus]

Bfn is the worst pvz shooter i wouldnt reccomend it

[strange knot]

What why?

[lavish apex]

i was sarcastically asking why you wouldn't enjoy that i agree it sucks

[velvet cape]

Path of pain more like path of kaizo mario maker

[crimson escarp]

The white palace of silksong would be cogwork core

[strange knot]

Why would that matter

[stable pilot]

It's the best, I think it's better than gw2 and 1

[barren dew]

I never understood the hate low-key

[charred ruin]

players will find a way

[rocky lotus]

You never played it

[stable pilot]

Reasons are, the campaign mode is better

[final furnace]

forcing people to use crests they dont wanna use (fuck beast's pogo)

[leaden delta]

It wouldn’t be that crazy

[barren dew]

Watching playthroughs

[rocky lotus]

The multiplayer is way worse imo and thats the main appeal

[hardy tangle]

i think they dont wanna do path of pain in silksong because of crests and pogo being different

[stable pilot]

Most of my time in pvz bfn was in campaign

[barren dew]

I love Electric Boogaloo

[strange knot]

Huh? You won’t need to use specific crest for platforming? You can do every platforming section with any crest

[stable pilot]

I did not like gw2 campaign at all

[charred ruin]

surface climb is doable with every crest im pretty sure

[rocky lotus]

Yeah its mid but the multiplayer is peak

[final furnace]

because its not path of pain 💔

[charred ruin]

people will find a way to make it path of pain and still do it with every crest

[stable pilot]

Yeah but I prefer campaign

[sharp slate]

I think the pain problem with a path of pain in silksong is there is too much movement options, gonna be hard to create something hard but fair imo. Ascendants grip existing as well complicates stuff

[crimson escarp]

You can do parkour with any crest in silksong it just depends on which one you like

[strange knot]

I don’t understand, why tf crest’s existence would matter in platforming? TC can do platforming that it’d be possible with every crest

[stable pilot]

Also if we talk about currently, bfn is better because all pvz shooters are dead

[stark briar]

path of pain with beast crest

[rocky lotus]

Gw2 is still somewhat playable

[final furnace]

idk probably all cling grip stuff would need to be the magnetite walls that fall and respawn

[stable pilot]

They can just default you to hunter toolless

[rocky lotus]

Gw1 and bfn are completely devoid of all life

[strange knot]

What’s bfn btw?

[charred ruin]

i mean the only thing thats=d have to be taken into account for traversal abilities when it comes to a path of pain in silksong would be how down pogo works

[stable pilot]

Plants vs zombies battle for neighborville

[final furnace]

ye

[charred ruin]

and even if using some crests make it harder or easier players will find a way

[strange knot]

Isn’t that the freaking point of crests😭. To make some things more enjoyable for some players

[charred ruin]

we got shit like acid skip and greenpath skip for hollow knight what makes you think someone wouldnt find a way to do the most undoable looking parkour doable

[stable pilot]

Also what's the best bfn plant

Personal preference

[leaden delta]

tcs taking crests into account anyways. this is noticed through the platforming not being fucking unique

[final furnace]

actually make a path of pain for each crest problem solved

[leaden delta]

they can make a silksong pop but it’ll probably be a lot more basic

[strange knot]

That’d lwk be fire

[stable pilot]

That would be pretty cool actually

[charred ruin]

true

[hardy tangle]

yeah thats why its easy

[leaden delta]

unless they decide to not be scared and just design smth around hunter and tell the other crests ay yall got it cuz it’ll work anyways

cuz all the pogos are the goddamn same

[charred ruin]

then players would have to learn how to use other crests
or someone manages to do it with the unintended crest anyways 😭

[leaden delta]

tc will be fine. their bigger issue is clawline

[sharp slate]

no crests are meant to be optimized and the bad ones to be hated trust

[charred ruin]

beast crest pogo

[strange knot]

[leaden delta]

not that different ultimately

[sharp slate]

if we get a parkour of each, can we get one that utilizes reaper dash attack tech xD

[somber ledge]

Noooo I found lace again </3333

[charred ruin]

still rated worst pogo by the community

[leaden delta]

it isn’t that different in terms of platforming

[tight viper]

Once upon a time, maybe

[strange knot]

Itd be fucking awesome if tc took in account more advanced techs

[tidal glade]

It has to be Architect

[leaden delta]

beast will get through a harder silksong parkour just fine

[solid arrow]

Not rly discussion based, but I just beat lost lace

I'm so happy, best moment of my life

[strange knot]

GG

[sharp slate]

actually would be lit to see some people make some maps with architect mod, wouldnt be suprised if people did so eventually

[tight viper]

Right now I'm pretty sure the community consensus is that Architect has the worst pogo. I disagree, but that's the community opinion

[earnest drift]

you beat the best boss

[solid arrow]

Indeed

[crimson escarp]

Architects is just like hunters

[charred ruin]

people already do

[ancient mortar]

Worst pogo is wanderer because I find it boring. This is a purely objective argument and I am correct. /J

[sharp slate]

They have parkour maps ik, but do they got crest specific ones? honestly im gonna look it up now thats awesome

[crimson escarp]

I feel like it’s too short

[earnest drift]

how many attacks does lost lace have that don’t depend on her position

[charred ruin]

i dunno but probably

[stable pilot]

I feel like it's perfect

[strange knot]

Yeah, there are many maps with that. But they kinda all just frame perfects

-# that was kinda an exaggeration

[ancient mortar]

I just don't want the first games moveset again

[tight viper]

Honestly, I agree. There's nothing special about it

[ancient mortar]

Personal preference

[stable pilot]

More than radiance

[tight viper]

Every other crest has a pogo that plays with momentum in some way

[stable pilot]

The simplicity makes it good for me ngl

[earnest drift]

void projectiles from sky, void tendrils from ground, void waves

[final furnace]

thats the point of the crest bro its made to have a range of 2 pixels for hunter´s speed, use reaper instead

[leaden delta]

The thing with making a crest specific map is just they aren’t fucking different

[ancient mortar]

Hunters diagonal pogo is cool and interesting. Shamans is neat, beasts is crazy, witch is cool, archi is very unique.

[crimson escarp]

Yeah hunter pogo is more fun than just spamming the normal pogo

[stable pilot]

I loved the pogoing mechanic from the first game, one of my favorite game mechanics

[sharp slate]

karmalita my beloved

[strange knot]

5 voided attacks
Circle attack
Slash attack
Dash attack

[leaden delta]

and making something around a SPECIFIC crest requires either very precise hazard placement or very precise cycles

[earnest drift]

radiance has like 8 attacks that don’t depend on her position

[strange knot]

There is more I’m pretty sure

[leaden delta]

and shit isn’t fun

[tight viper]

That's fair

[leaden delta]

That’s why you just map with hunter and let it be that

[tidal glade]

Like 3? The sawblades, tracking projectiles and the big 3, 3 dmg slashes

[earnest drift]

Karmelita is also better than radiance btw

[leaden delta]

the only meaningfully different pogo is beast

[stable pilot]

I think HK nail is perfect game design wise

[stable pilot]

And architect

[crimson escarp]

I would have loved reapers if it wasn’t for the dps

[leaden delta]

no

[sharp slate]

combat wise i would say yea, still like radiance for narrative/story though

[leaden delta]

platforming

[final furnace]

idk it isnt that bad i 100% steelsoul with reaper

[stable pilot]

It's angled weirdly

[ancient mortar]

Imo wanderers pogo is the one I've already used to death for pantheons in the first game but with worse range. Hunters felt fresh idk why it got so much hate

[leaden delta]

45 degrees

[hardy tangle]

yeah cus its the final boss

[leaden delta]

it’s not that different

platforming wise

[eager creek]

Gamers when 45 degree angle...

[stable pilot]

Nah that thing is not 45

[long elbow]

What color should I put my LEDs to?
Red or teal?

[final furnace]

the pogo is very short tho

[charred ruin]

cuz people have a skill issue

[sharp slate]

actually take that back karmalita is a refined combat fight, radiance is a unique combat fight

[strange knot]

DPS IS THE BEST THING IN THE WORLD. How can I play the game without counting every number??

[hardy tangle]

brown

[ancient mortar]

Absrad is peak

[stable pilot]

It's like 30 degrees

[long elbow]

That's impossible bro

[final furnace]

• average wanderer user that hates reaper

[earnest drift]

wait
void tendrils from ground
void projectiles from sky
lost moulinet
void waves

Did I miss any

[sharp slate]

even if attacks dont come from her they are still consistent at least, only one thats really bullshit is orbs

[lusty grove]

When Salubra sexually harasses The Knight, no one says a thing
When Kratt sexually harasses Hornet, everyone loses their minds

[crimson escarp]

Dude why isn’t there a tool that’s like quick slash from the first game it would have made reaper 1000 times better

[hardy tangle]

absrad phase 2:

[tidal glade]

Hunter only got hate in the beginning coz their muscle memory from replaying hk is thrown out the window XD

[long elbow]

So ttue

True

[earnest drift]

LMAOOOO

[charred ruin]

i dont think so

[strange knot]

True lol

[leaden delta]

what in the plats slander

[stable pilot]

If it actually was done right:

[sharp slate]

i think i still got salt from p5 speedrunning, i respect absrad, but low on my favorite bosses tbh xD

[earnest drift]

calling radiance consistent is a new one

[exotic cedar]

Absrad my favorite team cherry boss

[sharp slate]

she is though, all her attacks are very conssitent besides orbs

[exotic cedar]

I like it purely because of difficulty

[strange knot]

I’ve never beaten abs rad

[sharp slate]

her side to side attacsk people complain about but as long as you aggressivly dodge them they are insanely consistent (you have to dodge on left or right half of the screeen)

[crimson escarp]

Dps is the best thing a crest can have

[stable pilot]

The Orbs of LIGHT and DESPAIR™

[leaden delta]

Absrad is in fact consistent

[tight viper]

Being fun is the most important thing about a crest

[sharp slate]

orbs is will always bitch about

[ancient mortar]

Slanderous. Absrad was actually engaging

[stable pilot]

Given that, wanderers has low dps

[icy crow]

Hi

[exotic cedar]

Hello

[earnest drift]

almost all of them depend on rng
there’s definitely enough time to react to them but I defend a consistent boss as stuff like pure vessel and sisters of battle, where the attacks have little rng in deciding where to be positioned at

[stable pilot]

Wanderers main talking

[strange knot]

Hi

[hardy tangle]

iframes iframes iframes

[sharp slate]

wanderers do not have low dps though, its close to hunters

[stable pilot]

All other crests except reapers have higher dps

[icy crow]

Hi John Sherman ft. Awakened Sherma

[icy crow]

Hi (good) Alpre

[exotic cedar]

Hiiii

[charred ruin]

i just play wanderer for comfort because i forget to use tools and i like instant output

[crimson escarp]

Hunters dps ain’t that bad it’s faster compared to the basic knight from the first game

[sharp slate]

no they arent lmao

[stable pilot]

It's on the bottom of the list if we use the crests special abilities

[charred ruin]

i dont mind having fights take longer

[keen solstice]

It's one of the better pogos

[sharp slate]

absrad is one of the less rng bosses for hitless imo for hk

[strange knot]

Hii marchon
-# I couldn’t think of a funny joke

[earnest drift]

arrangement of sword walls and rain
rotation of sword face and laser face
where the yellow orbs come from

[keen solstice]

I don't think 10dps difference is being close

[ancient mortar]

Also can y'all hear out my reaper buff idea? It always gives orbs, buffed to 1/2 a strand, and binding instead calls all orbs to you immediately while healing. (Maybe give an extra mask if there's enough orbs but that might be too much) Also maybe alternatively have the bind give you a buff that makes spells refund half their silk cost.

[keen solstice]

It definitely doesn't have low DPS tho

[hardy tangle]

is there a single bad thing about pv btw

[ancient mortar]

Also give it two spell slots

[leaden delta]

absrad has a lot of different stuff yes! it can also be consistently beaten

[earnest drift]

cutting out healing windows to be more difficult

[final furnace]

now that i try it with Afterimage effect mod i see that beast pogo is also diagonal, just on a slight curve instead of direct

[sharp slate]

i think it relatively close, especially if you include flintslate (havent done calcs on flintslate but seems easier to get off more hits ik hunter has the modifier hitless though) /silk skills

[hardy tangle]

he staggers like 3 times and you can heal sometimes during the focus attack

[tight viper]

Does anyone have a crest dps comparison table or something

I haven't looked at once since before the needle strike update

[earnest drift]

healing during focus attack is very unreliable and healing 3 times in a double damage fight is not a lot

[slender juniper]

Silksong crest of the weaver Concept
Location:would be obtained after binding the first sinner ,instead of that utterly useless skill
Slots:2 silk skill slots,1 red slots,2 blue slots ,one yellow slot
Mecchanics;20% faster silk regen and gives +2 silk hearts, silk skills are also Boosted by 20%,
Attacks:Hornet slashes with claws with wanderers range and witches speed,the lunge mimicks Widows bell floor attack,
Hidden sinergies:scuttlebrace works faster

[keen solstice]

Silk skills lower your output due to cast time being too much for the damage dealt though

Also if you're gonna count flintslate then don't forget to count the other red tool hunter can have

[sharp slate]

telefragt

[final furnace]

just realized that architect pogo isnt short af its a charged attack

[sharp slate]

pv has a very obscure telefrag that can happen its funny

[ancient mortar]

Any thoughts on this?

[crimson escarp]

Same thing if you run and attack with architects

[stable pilot]

A telefrag is when the boss telegrafs and then does another thing?

[hardy tangle]

well yeah its the last boss of p4 it should be hard, at least it staggers and you have the option to heal during the focus attack unlike a certain someone starting with abs and ending with rad where you have 2 times you can heal and the 2nd time is scary asf cus the laser can blast your head open any time

[sharp slate]

depends are you talking about a grand reed or an enemy that goes off screen, pale nails increases dps if you cast it while the enemy is off screen

[sharp slate]

its when the boss teleports into you without a telegraf, basically you are fucked moment

[earnest drift]

yeah it’s more about hollow knight’s heal being badly designed than pure vessel being bad

[tight viper]

First sentence seems cool, the parantheses and refund stuff is a bit much imo but idk

[strange knot]

Hot take and I will be hated because of this statement: pv is overrated

-# tbf I don’t think it’s really overrated I just don’t like the boss that much

[crimson escarp]

That would be too broken but I like the idea of binding bringing the orbs back once you heal

[stable pilot]

Oh it's the focus telefrag then

[stable pilot]

Happened once to me

[charred ruin]

same

[hardy tangle]

coolest thing ever this fucking sucks actually

[neat fossil]

W

[charred ruin]

silk orbs being unreachable pmo

[sharp slate]

oh you know about it, nice, rare for people to see it cause you have to not hit him during the stagger attack and he teleports to middle guarenteed lol

[rocky lotus]

I dont really gaf about what you said but i will hate regardless

[ancient mortar]

With reapers low dps I don't think it's that strong, especially with the unsightly abilities of other crests.

[stable pilot]

This song proves your statement wrong

[sharp slate]

Wanderer is really nice for consistency tbh, i love it so much, my favorite crest for hitless stuff

[viscid hollow]

Is reapers considered a bad crest? :/

[sharp slate]

its not bad just not "optimal"

[crimson escarp]

I would buff the dps a bit to make it easier to get silk

[tight viper]

Comparitively, it's bad

[strange knot]

Yep sadly

[ancient mortar]

Having spells create 4 orbs (2silk) on hit seems like a good way to encourage an early game caster build. I think it should function like old reaper bind where you lose it when hit.

[stable pilot]

If we compare, yes, sadly

[sharp slate]

i think its really good for a first playthrough even comparing crests

[crimson escarp]

It’s a passive crest so it’s not recommended if your fighting a boss

[viscid hollow]

Wow, I’m the reaper crests number one fan too :/

[stable pilot]

TC did bad designing with it

[grim widget]

If you think about it ascended markoth is just flea dodge but worse

[neat fossil]

FR wanderer has so much consistency, and it feels so fun to use with steady body (I forgot the tool name)

[stable pilot]

I wish reapers was good

[charred ruin]

i also used reapers for comfort and survivability when i wasnt as good at dodging

[charred ruin]

weighted belt

[grim widget]

Weighted belt I think

[tight viper]

yeah, the silk generation is the main thing that needs a buff, 2 silk sounds reasonable

[strange knot]

I kinda got into reaper again. Might try healless ct with it

[viscid hollow]

What is considered good then?

[grim widget]

It also has stalwart shell

[neat fossil]

Weighted belt yeah

[earnest drift]

I kind of hate how radiance doesn’t move outside of teleporting
she feels very static and non-fluid to fight

[stable pilot]

Anything other than wanderers and reapers

[strange knot]

Everything that is not reaper

[tight viper]

Once upgraded, Hunter is overall the best of the crests

[neat fossil]

Imagine if she had an attack where she flies into the background and tries to ram into you

[strange knot]

Wanderer is considered bad?

[stable pilot]

Yeah

[tight viper]

Well, excluding Arch being absolutely broken with toolspam

[leaden delta]

relative to every other crest, yes
it's perfectly fine, it just doesnt stand out in terms of traits

[viscid hollow]

I see I see

[ancient mortar]

Reaper is a really cool crest I think it deserves a buff so that it's actually the best silk generation crest rather than wanderer. But all together I think what I want is the half silk orbs to always spawn when you hit, and the bind to make spells refund 2 silk worth of orbs until you get hit. Also absorb the orbs maybe on bind

[sharp slate]

no way people calling wanderers bad lmao

[viscid hollow]

Ah got it

[crimson escarp]

Hunters if you want to battle everything with your needle and architects if you just want to spam random shi

[stable pilot]

Idk why, I think it's also just bad when comparing

[neat fossil]

I'm never dropping wanderer I'm sorry 😭

[tight viper]

Comparatively, it's bad

[worldly umbra]

"this thing is overrated, so im gonna call it bad so im different!!"

[stable pilot]

I am NOT playing anything except wanderers

[viscid hollow]

I beat the game with reapers and basically rarely using tools cause I never had shards :,)

[stable pilot]

It's my main, jokes on you

[tight viper]

Wanderer is a perfectly good crest, but when compared to the other crests, it falls short

[sharp slate]

Are crests really bad compartively if no one can perform at the level you guys are talking about

[worldly umbra]

https://tenor.com/view/will-smith-rage-slam-walk-out-gif-15166155

[stable pilot]

I love wanderson crest

[neat fossil]

why is this guy so factual

[crimson escarp]

In end game shell shards are so vague I can barely get any

[viscid hollow]

Exactly !

So I just stopped using tools

[worldly umbra]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1425750070434857113/1426503896259625041/caption.gif

[stable pilot]

[hardy tangle]

they should make a crest where you have 2 masks but you get more rosaries and you can explode corpses on command

[sharp slate]

Architects for example will probably be crap in a godhome because you dont have unlimited shards/tools

[tight viper]

Arch toolspam is easy, beast healspam is easy, shaman skill spam is easy, witch and hunter gameplay take more practice but not that much

[worldly umbra]

1 mask

[tight viper]

just buy some shard bundles ahead of time

[charred ruin]

people have all sorts of hate on every crest like people would say hunter pogo is shit or that reaper has low dps or wanderers has a yellow slot which isnt that helpful for combat and only 1 red slot or beast crest pogo and healing sucks or witch crest healing you also have to be near enemies to heal or shaman crest not having an midair heal or how long silk skills take to activate before they hit or architect being braindead tool spam etc etc

[strange knot]

It’d be easy to do radiants tho

[raw pawn]

They should make a crest that makes you explode when you touch grass

[viscid hollow]

Me in 7 minutes cause it’s midnight 💤

[stable pilot]

I have no idea how TC will balance godhome and architect

[sharp slate]

im assuming godhome is a dream, and you cant open shard bundles in dreams

[worldly umbra]

me in 5 hours cuz its 6

[charred ruin]

does it really matter just play how you find best for yourself 😭 TC gives us options for a reason

[crimson escarp]

Hunter pogo is easy after playing for like 3 hours

[worldly umbra]

https://tenor.com/view/benjammins-comment-above-fact-facts-facts-meme-gif-2124243457389189191

[hardy tangle]

me in 14 hours

[stable pilot]

I only shit on naked crest

[neat fossil]

Everybody has something to say about every crests like geez. let me enjoy my wanderer melee blitzing

[sharp slate]

true, me and someone were chatting about architects for hitless all bosses, but we both refused to use it + 800 shard limit sounded pratical

[raw pawn]

Don't forget that you can run out of shards

[earnest drift]

turns out radiance and lost lace have a similar amount of attacks that don’t depend on their positions

lost lace is better because she has more attacks that do depend on her position

[stable pilot]

Reason is, no spike pogo

[charred ruin]

it is but people find a way to complain anyways somehow

[stable pilot]

Imo absrad is better because I can see stuff

[magic narwhal]

Clawline got

[raw pawn]

I swear I managed to pogo with cloakless smh

[hardy tangle]

someone got the reference right 💔

[tight viper]

If you die in a dream in HK, you normally get teleported out of the dream realm unless it's White Palace or Godhome, so there's no reason that shard bundles can't work the same way

[stable pilot]

On spikes?

[magic narwhal]

I am doing Mount Fay basically immediately and leaving to grab upgrades

[raw pawn]

Yes it was in that part where you had to climb

[keen solstice]

Meanwhile beast would be running rampant unless there's enemies that 1 shot

[ancient mortar]

Hunter will be so fucking good for radhog

[sharp slate]

beast is going to be insanely strongh in a godhome

[neat fossil]

Mount Fay was fun tbh, I did it in like 20 minutes

[hardy tangle]

is that radiance but its like a pig

[raw pawn]

Don't forget that team cherry can just

Delete the fucking floor for some reason

[sharp slate]

i think the first r5 in silksong will be with either hunters or wanderers though

[slender juniper]

Fuck All crests

[tight viper]

That's not a problem

[ancient mortar]

It's doing every boss in hall of gods on radiant

[earnest drift]

imagine nyleth no floor

[keen solstice]

Yeah it would basically be the steady body+quickslash+strength of silksong 😭

[stable pilot]

Agree

[rocky lotus]

What is r5

[tight viper]

radiant p5

[keen solstice]

Why would you give beast yet another advantage wtf 😭 😭

[sharp slate]

r5 is basically hitless pantheon 5 of godhome, so r5 for silksong would be basically all bosses (hopefully they trim some)

[stable pilot]

But the pogo is weird

[slender juniper]

Silksong crest of the weaver Concept
Location:would be obtained after binding the first sinner ,instead of that utterly useless skill
Slots:2 silk skill slots,1 red slots,2 blue slots ,one yellow slot
Mecchanics;20% faster silk regen and gives +2 silk hearts, silk skills are also Boosted by 20%,
Attacks:Hornet slashes with claws with wanderers range and witches speed,the lunge mimicks Widows bell floor attack,
Hidden sinergies:scuttlebrace works faster
Rate this crest

[sharp slate]

please no zango or shakra or garmond in godhome

[stable pilot]

That would be an advantage for architect and shaman

[crimson escarp]

Sometimes I forget that boss exists

[earnest drift]

but I like Shakra…

[exotic cedar]

You know what team cherry would prob add them

[stable pilot]

Remake shakra

[exotic cedar]

Except garmond

[sharp slate]

i hate shakra with a passion, i have trauma from hitless

[charred ruin]

imagine if we just have all of them in 1 run

[keen solstice]

Not really no
Shaman can't heal with no ground and architect doesn't have much to help in the air

Meanwhile beast can launch itself across enemies mid air 😭

[tight viper]

Zote's skippable in P5, they could do something similar for Zango

[earnest drift]

really? I found her consistent when I no hit her

[stable pilot]

Oh yeah shaman can't heal