oh god
#archived-modding-development
silk jetty
that's what it was called when I downloaded it a while ago
unborn flicker
there was a lot of sadposting today for some reason
shy cloak
oh noez my birthday is sad?
safe hamlet
350 messages in 5 hours, that's cute
ornate rivet
yes
safe hamlet
you haven't seen the time we did that in an hour
unborn flicker
there also was a major update to the randomization 
and the hint shop is a bit more polished now
So that's in the 350 messages too
shy cloak
oh boy
well i don't have time right now unfortunately
maybe tomorrow I can catch up. family's in town
waxen ember
@fair rampart wha
safe hamlet
drop that dll boi
silk jetty
yes
fair rampart
what
silk jetty
I want to try out your rando
copper nacelle
waxen ember
you pinged me
ornate rivet
he meant to tag @brazen mortar
safe hamlet
you accidently pinged them before
unborn flicker
Let me make the modlog a bit better organized and I'll post it
waxen ember
ah
ornate rivet
safe hamlet
smh 56
copper nacelle
it has been processed
gilded lotus
but i notice all the minute details
gilded lotus
i can notice someone joining voice chat while i'm looking at my 2nd monitor lol
brazen mortar
what
silk jetty
sucka
safe hamlet
is that using trailrenderer?
safe hamlet
particle?
ornate rivet
@fair rampart accidentally tagged @waxen ember when he meant to tag @brazen mortar
copper nacelle
real particle system hours
ornate rivet
smh watcher knights mod that isn't grimm themed
safe hamlet
because he is a madlad
ornate rivet
I enjoy pinging @unborn goblet
safe hamlet
lol
copper nacelle
please
silk jetty
@ mods meme pings
brazen mortar
saleh stop being an ass
ornate rivet
ok Sir
brazen mortar
thats "ok Mom" to you young man
ornate rivet
"ok Daddy"
silk jetty
no u
safe hamlet
ornate rivet
I was being polite 😔
ornate rivet
wait are you actually annoyed by this?
I thought t'was a joke, if you're really annoyed then I'm sorry (no sarcasm).
dusky lion
@covert arrow
ornate rivet
oh wow didn't know that one existed
safe hamlet
cease people
dusky lion
anyone with everyone as their nickname is exempt from the no meme ping rule
ornate rivet
unborn flicker
New randomizer update:
-New randomization system
-Improved dialog in hint shop
-Expanded item logic
gilded lotus
adrain did that fix it for you btw
unborn flicker
There may be a small stutter on starting a randomized game. Normally randomization takes less than .1s for me, but occasionally it goes up to ~.4s
shy cloak
on GH?
unborn flicker
I could go ahead and push this
I had been holding off in case a major flaw was found
silk jetty
yeah
unborn flicker
But I doubt I would scrap the whole thing
silk jetty
it's better to do that
shy cloak
no it isn't; other people can find the serious flaw and point at it
unborn flicker
...you don't know what you're talking about
silk jetty
yeah I know
shy cloak
lul
shy cloak
you rock homothety
unborn flicker
New commit is up. Changes to the randomization are here: https://github.com/homothetyhk/HollowKnight.RandomizerMod/blob/master/RandomizerMod2.0/Randomization/Randomizer.cs
unborn flicker
unborn flicker
They're a huge mess as boolean expressions, but it makes it much easier to cover every possible scenario
Also makes changing logic across items much easier
shy cloak
Yeah makes it easier to read too, honestly. Rather than some weird polymorphism blah blah blah
oops you mean the logic
unborn flicker
Oh, did you mean the while loop on the randomizer?
I like the boolean controls on that too
shy cloak
Haven't gotten in there yet; thought you meant the hint system for where the item is 😃
unborn flicker
Oh, oh
I get it now 😄
The things in logic are actually called macros, so that's what confused me
shy cloak
It's dumb because that stuff looks "noobish" but honestly I would prefer stuff to look like that all over the place rather than chopping everything into classes you only use once
Yeah I actually do love the macros in the logic, too. Should make it way easier to read the logic 😃
copper nacelle
no
pseudo pewter
copper nacelle
dusky lion
^
hazy sentinel
@pseudo pewter make it happen
pseudo pewter
I don't know how to mod
pseudo pewter
Also this
copper nacelle
make it happen
safe hamlet
alright
copper nacelle
no not you
safe hamlet
fair rampart
Rad Markoth in the ascended No Eyes arena when
pseudo pewter
I can't
hazy sentinel
role-locked #archived-modding-development when
pseudo pewter
hydra pale prince when
copper nacelle
when you make it
copper nacelle
silk jetty
welp, time to do a cyclone slash baldur kill
weak lodge
56 stop
copper nacelle
why
copper nacelle
hurry up buddy
safe hamlet
maybe i should start it too just so you hurry up
weak lodge
im never going to
safe hamlet
plus i want to work with particle system™
weak lodge
you go ahead
safe hamlet
that's what you think
weak lodge
ill make my version when i feel like it
so never™
if you want i can give you my ideas so you can execute it
56 what mod name
copper nacelle
the trick is changing the name at the end
dusky lion
modding idea
weak lodge
anything planned for it so far or is this just a test run thing
copper nacelle
i was just bored
weak lodge
imagine being more productive than me while bored
silk jetty
whats the best way to do elder baldurs with cyclone slash
silk jetty
fuck
safe hamlet
you can do them with cyclone slash?
unborn flicker
Yeah. You just stand at the point where they close and go back and forth
Great Slash doesn't work though
silk jetty
it's really annoyingly precise
safe hamlet
o
silk jetty
okay, the first one was a waste of time
because flukenest useless without having vs
so greenpath it is
something that worries me, if hornet doesnt have anything good I have to do cyclone slash baldur shell
thank god, hornet had dive
silk jetty
it's also access to the area under resting grounds
with soul eater
but I cant get to soul eater so it's just a chest
mellow elbow
I mean, crystal peaks
although without mantis claw...
what? you can get to cp with dive
silk jetty
oh god I better not have to check quick slash or mato
because I'm not paspid pogoing without anything
copper nacelle
that's what you think
silk jetty
unless logic says you need some sort of movement ability to get there
although I guess I could shade skip
which would be easier than paspid pogos
unborn flicker
Things which are possible are generally easier than things which are not possible, yes
Though I doubt you have the items for the shade skip either
silk jetty
I might
if I'm good enough at stalling with wraiths
and I could probably also damage boost
hell yeah
I made it
unborn flicker
silk jetty
would've been really easy if I had another mask lmao
ngl if I die to a great hopper I'm noclipping past that
all that for lifeblood heart at mato
and idk what yet at qs
I dont think I can get to qs
solemn rivet
not with that attitude
silk jetty
I should probably be working on something I need done for school tomorrow rather than talking on discord or doing hk randomizers
hazy sentinel
❌
silk jetty
thats a fair arguement
safe hamlet
imagine going to school
silk jetty
pretty easy to imagine real life
jovial vault
Good luck for your homework
silk jetty
hahanope, not bothering with it
silk jetty
I'll get it done in study hall
jovial vault
Living on the edge
silk jetty
yeah
basically
and I might get some of it done on my phone
while I try to get tired
charred parrot
so Star vs The Forces of Evil just ended
by any chance does anyone follow that series at all?
silk jetty
no
copper nacelle
Pog
charred parrot
because I've got some stuff I need to rant about
safe hamlet
this is #archived-modding-development not #rant, only serious modding talk here
unborn flicker
this but
solemn rivet
who was it that asked me to ping them when I was streaming again?
safe hamlet
solemn rivet
solemn rivet
wait I'm still finding it
unborn flicker
That emote pairing is incredible
solemn rivet
safe hamlet
what are you going to stream?
copper nacelle
math
solemn rivet
sure
copper nacelle
yeet skeet
safe hamlet
yes math
solemn rivet
lemme just start the stream...
solemn rivet
it's on sid
copper nacelle
@safe hamlet f o o l
copper nacelle
no
dusky lion
please this is important
halcyon finch
So I'm not seeing a summary for Benchwarp in the doc, someone mind giving me a summary for it?
copper nacelle
you can warp to benches you've sat on
unborn flicker
from pause menu
halcyon finch
okay that makes it super helpful, thanks
unborn flicker
someone who is good at time please help me budget this. my family is dying
copper nacelle
spend less on first pass items
unborn flicker
no
I think there are 3 main time-consuming things which happen during first pass
For every placed item, it has to update this first
Every time it runs out down to one location it calls this
And rarely it has to use this
Everything else is just adding and removing from lists
My gut feeling is the only thing that takes time is calling stuff from logic manager
leaden hedge
well you can get rid of the first part !reachedLocations by removing locations as you add them, and you only need to update it if the item has any locked items behind it
unborn flicker
I did the first part already, but I can try moving it behind a progression check
leaden hedge
what does parselogic do
unborn flicker
At init, logic manager parses the logic and stores the boolean expression as a list of strings. Parse logic takes that list and evaluates it as a stack, using the obtained[] argument
leaden hedge
strnig comparisons are kinda slow
unborn flicker
That seems like it might have shaved some off? The last three tests were all ~ .25 s
leaden hedge
you could probably do all your comparisons really fast, by converting your requirements + obtained to a number like say your items are just claw, dash, djump and cdash
say you have claw + djump can do obtained = 1 + 0 + 4 + 0
then for requirements, says its just claw thats 1 + 0 + 0 + 0
then if requirements & obtained = requirements its reachable
unborn flicker
Unfortunately, most items depend on over ~20 bools logically right now
So I don't think there's an efficient way to convert that to an enum
Anything outside the top left corner of the map has a billion routes and settings involved (metaphorically)
Thanks for the suggestions though!
I think I found where the lag spikes are
Basically this if tree
unborn flicker
I added too many comments oh noes 😱
solemn rivet
Not that
solemn rivet
You're just solidifying the point that I'm the only one who doesn't comment his code
I know I should
But I just don't care enough
unborn flicker
Yup. I would say GetProgressionItems is the culprit
leaden hedge
well you have an array copy straight away, thats nice
unborn flicker
I can probably shave at least half that time by filtering out all the baldur kill items and duplicate spells/etc
And maybe more with some creative way to retain which locations we confirmed each progression to give access to, to be able to skip at least some tests on the next call
leaden hedge
you could probably make the function noticably faster just by making obtained into a list
and not even using obtained at all
charred parrot
the people in art just called me a code monkey
leaden hedge
and just adding to obtainedItems, then removing right after
unborn flicker
Still has to convert to array for ParseLogic, but I see what you're saying
leaden hedge
private static List<string> GetProgressionItems(int reachableCount)
{
List<string> progression = new List<string>();
foreach (string str in unobtainedItems)
{
if (LogicManager.GetItemDef(str).progression)
{
int hypothetical = 0;
obtainedItems.Add(str);
foreach (string item in unobtainedLocations)
{
if (LogicManager.ParseLogic(item, obtained))
{
hypothetical++;
}
}
obtainedItems.Remove(str);
if (hypothetical > reachableCount)
{
progression.Add(str);
}
}
}
return progression;
}
i mean parselogic should be able to take a list
unborn flicker
Yeah, I could clone it with a list argument
leaden hedge
you can still do
List<string> whatever;
whatever[x];
i mean you'd have to replace the default one anyway
and make obtained a list
it shouldn't be an array anyway, as it isn't a static size
unborn flicker
Yeah, the only thing ParseLogic even does with obtained is
stack.Push(obtained.Contains(logic[i]));
rain cedar
You could change this all into a bitmask
leaden hedge
well you have it as an array probably because the variable you have to pass into it is an array too
rain cedar
Would be way faster
leaden hedge
I already said that
rain cedar
Well it's a good idea
leaden hedge
unborn flicker
Would that not require computing a truth table for each item's logic, essentially?
rain cedar
No
You can still parse the postfix expressions
Just with bitmask tokens instead of strings
unborn flicker
Ah, now I see
leaden hedge
but you also definitely shouldn't be mallocing an array and copy from another array to it
when you can just use a list
unborn flicker
But really the ideal overhaul would be for ParseLogic to take an int argument
Or perhaps convert the obtained list into an int inside its body I suppose
leaden hedge
you'd always have it as an int
and just add 2^n when you pick up the items at position n in the list of progression items
unborn flicker
Ok, cool. That sounds way faster than the current system
jovial vault
exam done nice
charred parrot
how long until you AWAKEN fully
gilded lotus
how long until lazy notices im big fan
leaden hedge
no
charred parrot
jovial vault
i feel like you have that on hand at all times
charred parrot
FaSteST fiNGErs in ThE wESt
jovial vault
kdt vs ark would be interesting
gilded lotus
check your dms lazy
charred parrot
Zaliant we're not looking for more composers atm :/
we're not looking to add new people period
unless they're like
gilded lotus
reeeee
charred parrot
a god tier animator/artist
gilded lotus
thats me
gilded lotus
i can draw stick figures
leaden hedge
gay
jovial vault
lazy. wording.
he's going to come and be like "what do you mean your animation workflow is like this"
charred parrot
charred parrot
leaden hedge
like why can't I access sprites, by name 😠
why do I either have to use the animator OR attach every sprite 1 by 1 OR write my own image parser
charred parrot
its a feature
leaden hedge
a feature that I can't use their built in atlas + sprite sheet unpacker, and use the name of those subsprites to access them
is the fact the animator for 2d is just the 3d animator, with no effort to actually facilitate features a 2d animation system wants+needs, a feature too
why is animation blending even an option on 2d sprites
how often do you blend between 2 sprites in 2d
charred parrot
KDT make HK 2 Electric Boogaloo
leaden hedge
i can't actually program a game buggy enough to be hk2
jovial vault
isn't that what we were doing lazy
charred parrot
shhh shhh shut the fuck up
jovial vault
leaden hedge
i think I can avoid getting oob within 2 minutes
charred parrot
I disagree
charred parrot
rb.velocity = new Vector2(xSpeed, rb.velocity.y); is all you need
boi
dun dun duuuuuun
leaden hedge
Nice
No way unity will ever fuck it up
I can think of literally 0 unity games with janky physics
charred parrot
its fine we're all fine
and to be fair it all leads back to that vector2 so if I want to change it it'll be easy
leaden hedge
the nice thing about unity is its renderer works
charred parrot
what a compliment
they're apparently updating physics quite drastically in the coming months though
something something dots?
not too sure of the specifics
leaden hedge
maybe games won't have that trademark unity feel
buoyant obsidian
urban olive
Someone pls help
Where does modinstaller put uninstalled mods
I made a mod to change the soul cap but accidentally uninstalled it
Like an idiot and now it’s gone from the installer
Wait can I just get a new copy off VS
Galaxy brain
How do I build it to a DLL again
hollow hearth
gilded lotus
C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Hollow Knight\hollow_knight_Data\Managed\Mods\Disabled @urban olive
solar jacinth
hello lock Jeever's dumb ass
gilded lotus
rude'
copper nacelle
telling someone to go to #archived-modding-help when they're actually talking about modding 
modding-help is installing-mods-help
floral furnace
literally just press the build drop down lock
solemn rivet
@urban olive if it's Uninstalled it's gone forever. If it's disabled, it's in the folder zaliant mentioned
Mino and lazy: there's some guy streaming art
You guys should contact them
solar jacinth
may i ask why they would contact someone who arts ?
solemn rivet
Oh yeah sugar is artsy too
jovial vault
art, sigh
weak lodge
wow someone actually good at art in modding
solar jacinth
only mino , not me tbh
jovial vault
i would disagree
jovial vault
don't post art here, this isn't gallery smh
also that's not not really good, at least for my standards
jovial vault
thank you
jovial vault
off topic but there's not a lot in comparing yourself to people less better than you and thinking you're better than them 🤔 it only makes your growth stagnate too
solar jacinth
you earned it
jovial vault
eeeeh i guess
i was initially planning to go into art which is why i got really good at it
then i was like 😩 what if i dont
solar jacinth
what if you do
jovial vault
it's not something i really like enough to do it as a career honestly
solemn rivet
Yeah
I think it's best to keep hobbies as hobbies tbh
Even if they make you some money on the side
solar jacinth
improve your hobbies
solemn rivet
As soon as a hobby becomes work... It doesn't necessarily stop being fun, but that stops it from being a release, a coping mechanism
jovial vault
^
solemn rivet
That's how I see it at least
jovial vault
that's exactly how i feel about it honestly
solemn rivet
Because even if you work with something you love doing and love doing what you work with... It's still work, you know? There's still pressure, deadlines, expectations etc.
floral furnace
omega this
jovial vault
also sugar you can most definitely get really good at hobbies. i got way above most hobbyists at art and had a lot of fun w/ it
solemn rivet
You still need something to get away
solemn rivet
I'm way too lazy for something that requires that much dedication
solemn rivet
Badly
jovial vault
i gave up on art for a solid year because i was tired of putting in effort
solar jacinth
best comeback ever
solemn rivet
I wish I could do that to my phd ngl
solar jacinth
sometimes the key to improve your skill , is a small touch . For art like brush settings etc....
solemn rivet
Small touch
solar jacinth
im speechless
jovial vault
sigh
jovial vault
i hope stuff w/ your phd works out btw
solar jacinth
phd 
solemn rivet
when things get too serious I like to lighten the mood with a silly joke
yeah, phd
ty mino
it's very stressful
jovial vault
i can imagine
solemn rivet
at some points I even stop liking maths altogether
basically what we were just saying
solar jacinth
solemn rivet
bugün saat
jovial vault
this is not portugese
shy cloak
Doctor Tentacles when?
solemn rivet
soon ™
solar jacinth
shy cloak
noice
jovial vault
how was your day of birth
solar jacinth
what the fuck is doctor tentacles ??
shy cloak
oh yeah
solemn rivet
it's me, sugar
solar jacinth
solemn rivet
I don't get your confusion
jovial vault
also gradow 
just do art to destress from math like how i recently dropped art to take maths
who else could it be
solemn rivet
I can't, mino
jovial vault
ye i know
solemn rivet
I would, if I could
shy cloak
it was pretty good! overshadowed by family visiting, but none of my family celebrates so it was just a normal very busy day. Party's this weekend with my wife's family that actually celebrates.
jovial vault
that's cool!
shy cloak
yeah thanks for asking dudes 😃
jovial vault
yeah as long as you have something to destress with
solar jacinth
gradow can you please draw the head of the knight and send it here ?? i wanna see it
shy cloak
See I had a question about commutation relations for a 5x5 rubik's cube the other day. If I'd have known you were a maths dude i would have asked
solar jacinth
yea i saw it
solemn rivet
shy cloak
I was trying to get that checkerboard quilt pattern thing done and got stuck with a few steps
jovial vault
gradow is the methematics person
solar jacinth
the way you write math formulas 
solemn rivet
what's wrong with the way I write math formulas sugar?
jovial vault
oh you should see how i solve math problems then
it just slowly devolves into chicken scratch
shy cloak
solemn rivet
oh yeah you weren't there last night mino
jovial vault
i had my maths exam :^)
shy cloak
Actually heres the issue. Technically still unproven because I solved the problem a different way
solar jacinth
proceeds to solve a math problem
fails at second question
shy cloak
I didn't know how to formalize it to see if it's even possible or not
I think it's impossible but I dont know how to "prove" it
shy cloak
If the moves are numbered 1 through 6, you actually only need 1, 3, 5. And I think there are some more moves you can reduce
No just that one picture
shy cloak
I eventually got the checkerboard done, just using different stuff than in that picture
solemn rivet
are they the pieces of the cube?
shy cloak
Yeah it maps to the cube somehow. If you x, y a face, they'd be the pieces 2,2 2,4 4,2 4,4
shy cloak
Mostly I just needed to know if it was possible to take 1243 and change it to 1234 using the moveset on the bottom of the picture
shy cloak
Yeah I made it weird. I have a map for myself on how to take an answer from that picture and translate it to cube
shy cloak
Vaguely ?
solemn rivet
or at least how to represent permutations using cycles
like the permutation that takes 1234 to 1324 is given by (2 3)
are you familiar with that notion?
shy cloak
sorry switched devices
solemn rivet
np
shy cloak
i'm not actually, but is that "2 switches with 3" or something much different
unborn goblet
p!!!!!!!!!!!!NG
shy cloak
so if I reduced the moveset to permutation representations then it would be easier
solemn rivet
so (1 2 4) would take 1234 to 2431 because "1 goes to 2, 2 goes to 4 and 4 goes to 1"
unborn goblet
y ping
solemn rivet
makes sense?
shy cloak
Perfect sense
solar jacinth
@unborn goblet
solemn rivet
jokes on you, got no pener
unborn goblet
REEEEEEEEEEEE
solar jacinth
@unborn goblet
shy cloak
I had small pener way before you were born dawg
solar jacinth
@unborn goblet
#4897
unborn goblet
c** u c***
solar jacinth
wha?
unborn goblet
wait no
shy cloak
it's a miracle i have children
solar jacinth
⎛⎝✘MLGFREAKHD✘⎠⎞
#4897
unborn goblet
i wanted to say can u cant
solemn rivet
ok, stop this
unborn goblet
but holy this looks cool
solar jacinth
sure
shy cloak
Thanks gradow I'll see if I can use that
unborn goblet
cucc, what does that mean again?
solemn rivet
ok, dapper, so basically
solemn rivet
you can prove that any permutation of four elements is just composition of permutations of 2 elements
any
in mathsy terms, we say that {(1 2), (1 3), (1 4), (2 3), (2 4), (3 4)} is a spanning set for all permutations of four elements
shy cloak
That's fair, except that with cubing I don't have access to those 2 element permutations
solemn rivet
yeah
that's why I wanted to understand your notation
because if it's just taking 1243 to 1234 using the permutations you have written, it should be fairly straightforward if you decompose them into cycles
shy cloak
I only had ((1 2) (3 4)), (1 2 3 4), and (1 4 2 3) or something similar
There's another problem with moves 3 and 4 though in that it moves the "slots" they're supposed to be in
Because it's a full rotation of the cube, no move involved. So it doesn't help move the #s into the right slots
solemn rivet
(1 2 3 4)=(1 2)(1 3)(1 4)
(1 4 2 3)=(1 4)(1 2)(1 3)
hmm
yeah, sorry, I'm lost in your notations
shy cloak
Yeah that's fair
I think the moveset is only 1 and 2: Either ((1 2) (3 4)) or ((1 3) (2 4)) or "mirroring" along either axis, and then what I called "Rotation3" where you can pick any corner and rotate the other three, so (1 3 4 2) or (3 2 4 1) or (2 4 3 1) or (2 3 1 4)
I never had like formal maths training beyond calculus, and it's been like a decade or more so my brain thinks bad with stuff
I'm really used to thinking for programming too which doesn't help when I'm trying to get back into math because variables are so similar yet completely different
unborn flicker
Really loving this diagram which omits that each top face is glued to the next bottom face, clockwise 😕
I wish I knew how to compute homology for the homology pset due in an hour
Well, we aren't doing homology over Z since our professor decided (correctly) that we couldn't handle modules, but over R so it's kinda easier
hazy sentinel
homathety
solar jacinth
▤▧▥▨▤
solemn rivet
I really should learn proper homology/algebraic geometry/algebraic topology
homothety can I ask you a question regarding homology groups?
unborn flicker
yeah
though like I said, we're doing homology on vector fields because we're bad at quotients
solemn rivet
that's fine
so, take a non-negatively graded chain complex X
and let H(X) be its chain of homologies
since each X_n is a vector space over a field, say K, we can look at its dual vector space, X_n* := Hom(X_n,K)
this gives us a cochain complex X*
non-negatively graded as well
sounds fair so far?
unborn flicker
yeah, I follow
solemn rivet
ok
so we can compute the homologies of this cochain complex, H(X*)=ker d/im d
but
let's go back to the original chain complex
we have the following ses defining the homology:
0 ---> Bn(X) ---> Zn(X) ---> Hn(X) ---> 0
so if we restrict our focus to finite dimensional vector spaces, the functor Hom(-,K) is actually a duality and, therefore exact
so we get the following ses
0 ---> Hn(X)* ---> Zn(X)* ---> Bn(X)* ---> 0
So Zn* is just coker d and Bn* is just coim=im (by the first isomorphism theorem)
solemn rivet
what's the relation between Hn(X)* and Hn(X*)?
yeah
most places define cohomology as the homology of the cochain
but it seems to me that this is a more natural concept of co-object
are they isomorphic?
are they homotopically equivalent?
fair rampart
what in-
unborn flicker
interesting
jovial vault
good old maths
fair rampart
I'm out of here before my trying to understand this rots my brain
unborn flicker
I haven't given cochains any thought before, so I don't know what to make of it
solemn rivet
in the few examples I tried out, it seems they are in fact equal
but I can't, for the life of me, prove it
or even find a proof on stackexchange even
like, I have this result that I was trying to prove on my dissertation, and I needed cohomology. Using Hn(X*) it was impossible to prove it, but using Hn(X)* it was literally trivial to prove it.
unborn flicker
Oh, huh
solemn rivet
"impossible" in the sense that I couldn't do it, not that it was a logical contradiction or anything
unborn flicker
Yeah, as instinct I would guess that the diagram with the duals commutes, since this all feels well behaved(?) I haven't done anything with cohomology yet though, so I really couldn't say
solemn rivet
yeah...
I actually have never taken a formal course on homological algebra
so I am always doubting myself in every step
but I've asked people who know a lot about cohomology and they think those are the same thing, but can't think of a proof either
so for now I'm just assuming they are at least homotopically equivalent, because that's enough for me
since I'm going to localize on homotopies anyway
ty btw
shy cloak
mostly this channel is amazing btw
solemn rivet
No u
urban olive
Gradow are you a CS major
jovial vault
he's doing a phd in maths
solemn rivet
I'm a maths major
gilded lotus
I’m depressed major
shy cloak
@unborn flicker still have the dll chilling somewheres? Gonna play a bit because I'm lacking motivation today
unborn flicker
I'm in class now, but it should be 5th or 6th if you search from:me has:file
jovial vault
on your phone in class hmm
unborn flicker
in the front row too
jovial vault
tsk tsk
shy cloak
yesterday at 6 pm pacific sound right?
gilded lotus
Modlog.txt
jovial vault
i thought you were a maths major?
gilded lotus
Very cool but how does that work in Terraria since this is about that game
shy cloak
No this is RimWorld
jovial vault
ah you mean rain world
unborn flicker
Unfortunately, one sometimes must take useless classes Mino
So I am in Measure Theory and Algebraic Topology, at the same time as Physiology and European History
safe hamlet
hello people
weak lodge
sid returns
jovial vault
happy 2 am
shy cloak
What are "Long Checks"
unborn flicker
Right now: White Palace and Grubberfly
unborn flicker
Once minor items are randomized, it will probably include Grimm notch, Colosseum pale ore, and a few other grub/essence rewards
shy cloak
as well as normal pale ores and notches or nah?
unborn flicker
?
shy cloak
I always wanted pale ore locations rando'd cuz I suck at low damage
unborn flicker
Those were the long items that would be removed
gilded lotus
homothety isn't so great? Are you kidding me? When was the last time you saw a modder with such an ability and finesse with C#? Homothety puts modding in another level, and we will be blessed if we ever see a modder with his skill and passion for the game again. 56 breaks records. Saleh breaks records. KDT breaks the rules. You can keep your statistics. I prefer the magic.
jovial vault
bring in the copypasta lads
unborn flicker
That's true. If you've ever seen me trying to figure out the difference between a list and array while coding rando on the fly, you've seen true genius
dusky lion
scills
jovial vault
at least you're still modding tho
the rest of the modding staff cant say that
shy cloak
using System.Linq; array.ToList()
shy cloak
It took me an hour once to figure out why .ToList wasn't working
unborn flicker
Speaking of data storage and such
Is it possible to add flags to a [flags] enum at runtime?
shy cloak
dynamic enums?
copper nacelle
not afaik
unborn flicker
that's what I thought
shy cloak
i don't think there's such a concept as dynamic enums in C#, but you could make a dictionary do something similar
unborn flicker
Probably easier to just type it up once
copper nacelle
@jovial vault but I'm working on room rando ♿
unborn flicker
There's not that many progression items
jovial vault
56 youre beyond modding staff you dont count
copper nacelle
monkaHmm
unborn flicker
So I'll make a [flags] enum which has all the settings and progression items in it
copper nacelle
Homothety, make sure to set the values on the enum members
[flags] is just for a nice ToString
unborn flicker
And I'll preparse the logic to replace string item names with enum ints
copper nacelle
Also technically since enums are just ints you could do a dict
unborn flicker
like this, right?
unborn flicker
That way converting item names to int to add them in will be easy
copper nacelle
like (Obtained) 8 is valid even though there's nothing for 8
Also mino Sean is working on like two mods
unborn flicker
so what's the problem with not having it defined for 8?
copper nacelle
nothing
unborn flicker
ok, that's what I thought
copper nacelle
which is why I said you could do it
unborn flicker
as long as I'm careful not to have a situation where it adds something invalid
copper nacelle
the only downside is no nice ToString and Enum.Parse won't work without defined values I think
copper nacelle
Remade enemy rando and a summoner mod
jovial vault
aah i see
dusky lion
What happened to room rando
jovial vault
56
dusky lion
I c
safe hamlet
room rando when
also i was doing PoP at school, my laptop died at the final room 🙃
but PoP is not hard tho, it's definitely not as hard as people say it is
with infinite soul totems, it's very doable
dusky lion
@copper nacelle cg2 mod when 🤗
dusky lion
I know that’s the joke
copper nacelle
♿
safe hamlet
cg2?
safe hamlet
o
copper nacelle
I made a mod which replaced every enemy with cg2
safe hamlet
very nice
jovial vault
the only mod that matters
copper nacelle
@unborn flicker so if you're "adding" them at runtime via casts you'll want to store the string to int in a dict because Enum.Parse won't work with members that aren't defined at compile time
unborn flicker
Hmmm
I don't expect to add any more progression items
So I think for convenience it will be easier to just type this up once and never have anything break
there's only 30 or so, iirc
And it has to check against them even with vanilla placements, so it wouldn't even vary between settings
unborn flicker
so generate it as a dict?
and then perform bitwise operations using the dict to provide values as necessary?
rain cedar
If it's a dictionary of string to int you're still doing string comparisons
unborn flicker
I mean store obtained as an int and use the dict to add items to obtained, rather
And use the dict to replace all the strings in each logic with ints at init
unborn flicker
monka
Yeah that sounds good
So logic will become a list of "|", "+", and longs as strings, I suppose
Or would it still be slow to convert each long from string back to long?
rain cedar
You could dedicate the first couple bits to the operators
That way there's no strings at all
unborn flicker
Ah, perfect
rain cedar
Or a new struct with a token type and operand
Since it's a bit awkward to have operators in the mask
unborn flicker
Since I'm a bit inexperienced, could you explain what that means in more detail?
Sorry for the trouble
shy cloak
Why is logic changing to something obscure instead of readable?
leaden hedge
you should only need one bit right, just set the most significant bit i.e. negatives as a flag for don't read this as a literal, but an operator
unborn flicker
because right now it takes half a second to randomize, freezing the game
shy cloak
unborn flicker
because of string comparisons
unborn flicker
I don't know if this is really making the code more complex
It just slightly changes how the xml is processed, and what we call to add to obtained items
unborn flicker
Ok, so the idea for operands is that I replace "+" with -1 and "|" with -2?
And check that when parsing the logic
leaden hedge
and
a&b = a is leagues faster than
while(match || i >= str.Length || i >= str2.Length){
match = str[i] == str2[i];
}
or however string compares are programmed
probably less naively than that but still probably pretty slow
leaden hedge
yeah you can do
switch(logic){
case -1: whatever;
case -2: whatever;
default: bitmask;
}
Nice, thanks
leaden hedge
aslong as you never use 64 bits
unborn flicker
right, ofc
that shouldn't be an issue, I think
private static List<string> GetProgressionItems(int reachableCount)
{
List<string> progression = new List<string>();
string[] obtained = new string[obtainedItems.Count + 1];
obtainedItems.CopyTo(obtained);
foreach (string str in unobtainedItems)
{
if (LogicManager.GetItemDef(str).progression)
{
obtained[obtained.Length - 1] = str;
int hypothetical = 0;
foreach (string item in unobtainedLocations)
{
if (LogicManager.ParseLogic(item, obtained))
{
hypothetical++;
}
}
if (hypothetical > reachableCount)
{
progression.Add(str);
}
}
}
return progression;
}
This code causes the lag issues @shy cloak
It has to parse the logic for a lot of locations for each unplaced progression item whenever it's called
I think it was something like 90% of the randomization time came out of calling this function about 10 times, when I was testing last night
shy cloak
what's reachable count?
unborn flicker
reachableCount is the current number of reachable locations
So it's basically brute-forcing a list of all progression items which unlock new locations
shy cloak
yikes
The bitmask seems less scalable, but I guess there are finitely many items that can unlock new locations...
unborn flicker
I mean, there's always longlong
If I'm generating it from the xml data, it won't require code modifications to add new items
shy cloak
You're only iterating over unobtained locations, right?
can't you just break the for loop the first time an item unlocks a location?
I guess in some cases it'll keep going if an item doesn't unlock a location, but it should cut the run time by quite a bit, I would think
unborn flicker
No, because there is one unobtained location which is accessible, if this function is called
Oh huh, I guess reachableCount is 1 by definition, if this gets used
It would've been much higher in Sean's version
shy cloak
Oh this is the special case if there's only one location left?
unborn flicker
This is the first choice if there's only one location left
If it returns empty, then the randomizer starts guessing
which is actually much less resource intensive
shy cloak
so "unobtainedLocations" is a list of 1 item? or is that something different?
unborn flicker
unobtainedLocations is all unobtained locations. This occurs when reachableLocations is 1
unborn flicker
You could, but that wouldn't be random
I suppose you could randomly sort the order in which you check items
unborn flicker
So I might do that in addition to implementing the bitmask
create a permutation and then draw elements from the list by index
shy cloak
The bitmask is probably the smartest way to do it; I'd probably either leave the wait in or do some weird stuff with the location logic
Reduce the RPN (postfix) to include "true" then reduce the logic if I have an item so it doesn't have to re-parse that logic every time...
I made a console app to play around with post fix logic parsing. Right now it can take a logic string from the xml and return the skips as a new logic string to display to the user
i'm not making sense probably, but I wanted the logic expressed only as the skips, if they were required for a location
For example if I'm looking at this logic: (CLAW + (DASH | SUPERDASH | WINGS | ((FIREBALL | SCREAM) + FIREBALLSKIPS))) | (WINGS + (DASH | ((FIREBALL | SCREAM) + FIREBALLSKIPS)) + SPIKETUNNELS + SHADESKIPS)
And have only DASH, FIREBALL, and WINGS it'll spit back: SHADESKIPS + SPIKETUNNELS
Because those are the skips I would need in order to get to this location
And once again i have contributed nothing to the current convo gg me
hey homothety you should try bitmasks
safe hamlet
how would i instantiate specific number of objects and start moving them at the same time? like the radiance nail fan
rain cedar
for loop
shy cloak
giant if block
safe hamlet
so i guess first instantiate them and store them and later add the component that moves them?
rain cedar
Why make them before you need them?
safe hamlet
i want them to move at the exact same time, instantiate adds a small delay
shy cloak
instantiate then disable, enable them when you're ready
safe hamlet
that would require storing tho, wouldn't it?
shy cloak
yeah
safe hamlet
shy cloak
I could be wrong in the nail case, but i think most of the stuff in the game is added to the scene by team cherry, and the FSM just enables and moves the thingies
safe hamlet
yea there's an object pool spawn for markoth's nail
safe hamlet
why a while loop
rain cedar
I'm gonna end up redoing the styling for all of this code anyway
unborn flicker
That's fine by me
I have minimal knowledge of conventions or optimality, so I'm happy just to make it work
rain cedar
You can download resharper if you want
Style helper
It has mostly good default settings
But I disagree with some of them
Like using var
rain cedar
I like it
I used to do it until something else told me it was bad
But now resharper is telling me it's good so I'm validated
rain cedar
The only downside to var in any situation is less clarity
It doesn't change compilation at all
If it can't infer the type at compile time it'll tell you not to use var
rain cedar
var is good in one case only imo
If you have some really really stupid data type initializer
Like csharp var thing = new List<Dictionary<string, Dictionary<int, List<string>>>>();
Type is still obvious and it halves the line length
solemn rivet
right
rain cedar
Better solution though is to not have that data type
safe hamlet
i use var when the type is clear
but then again i don't really pay attention to them most of the times
rain cedar
I have found something stupid
That's every half hour at 60fps
Realistically more like every 5-10 minutes
So if you get a small stutter every 5-10 minutes
Now you know why
safe hamlet
interesting
rain cedar
GCManager
solemn rivet
wut dat
safe hamlet
Garbage Collector Manager
C# normally does handle garbage collection, but GC.Collect forces it
solemn rivet
right
rain cedar
You're using += and -= for the bitmask?
Is that the mistake or do you mean something else here?
unborn flicker
No the mistake was adding unobtained locations to progression
unborn flicker
Yeah, I understand what you're saying
charred parrot
homo what are you doing
unborn flicker
There's no failsafe if it tries to add something twice that way
charred parrot
(also if that's not your preferred nickname my bad)
unborn flicker
I guess it should be "|" for adding a new item, right?
rain cedar
Yeah |=
unborn flicker
Oh neat, that's easy
rain cedar
And for removing &= ~thing
unborn flicker
I'll fix that then
I'm changing the way the randomizer parses item logic Lazy
Before it used a ton of string comparisons
But now there's a bitmask
rain cedar
It used to be recursive infix parsing
Probably should've gone further than just fixing that when I did
But it was good enough for the single pass randomization
Hey does anyone know if there's mods other than randomizer that rely on activeSceneChanged and/or sceneLoaded being called directly after initialization?
Because the API preloading is either going to break that or another thing unless I put in a lot of extra work
And if just randomizer is gonna break that's fine, it's a 1 line fix
safe hamlet
you mean mods that check for main menu and stuff?
rain cedar
Yeah
unborn flicker
Benchwarp uses activeSceneChanged to check for main menu, but it only needs to work after s&q
That's a fix I borrowed from Mantis Gods, iirc, for the savesettings bug
safe hamlet
also how does preloading break it?
rain cedar
The Unity pipeline goes
Scene Loaded
|
V
Call Start on MonoBehaviours
|
V
Call activeSceneChanged
The relevant parts here at least
Previously mod loading was done from Start on the OnScreenDebugInfo script
Now it's done from a coroutine after reloading the main menu
So there's literally no way to load the mods in the same part of the pipeline with the current setup, since you can only wait for full frames, not pieces
I could fix it but it's really not worth the effort over adding 1 line to the end of randomizer init
safe hamlet
i see
unborn flicker
Ok, I think it all works now. Randomization time is pretty much unnoticeable!
rain cedar
The last one in the log doesn't look like it worked properly
There's no items other than the progression
unborn flicker
Only skills were randomized for that test
I did skills+charms+keys+easy, skills+charms+keys+geo+hard, skills+mag
rain cedar
I see