archived-modding-development

[vapid rover]

I mean, I haven't done anything with modinstaller or mod common

they're sitting in my Downloads folder

[hollow pier]

ok open the installer

[vapid rover]

ok

...oh

it was that easy

well, thank you for the help

is the Emotracker package thing up to date?

[solemn rivet]

emotracker...?

[fair rampart]

[young walrus]

Is that like gaydar

[fair rampart]

lmao

[civic hare]

lol

[solemn rivet]

Hey @rain cedar would it be easier to first code a room rando, with logic, and then after that add item rando logic to it? Or would it be the other way around?

That is, it's easier to code room rando already taking item rando into consideration

[oak wharf]

another mod idea: hallownest before the infection

[weak lodge]

requires new sprites plus would be alot of work to just change most of if not the entire map, including enemies, enemy placements etc

plus most of the modders are busy

[oak wharf]

I'm not asking them to, just throwin out an idea

but yes it would take a lot of work

[weak lodge]

an idea that wont be fulfilled unfortunately

at least this one wasnt as bad as cherry madness

[oak wharf]

cherry madness?

[weak lodge]

impossibly huge ambitious mod idea from someone

[oak wharf]

what was it about

[hollow pier]

where you live

[oak wharf]

up my ass

[weak lodge]

make your verdict from that

[fair rampart]

the fact that they commissioned art for it is

...

something

[oak wharf]

wao cancer

I might try modding HK

[fair rampart]

pro tip, don't commission art for a mod before you make the mod

[oak wharf]

ikr

[fair rampart]

because you don't know how many sprites and shit you're going to need

and also you might not be able to make the mod

period

[queen prawn]

not really sure what im doing wrong here

my files seem to be in the right spot

when i boot up the game my knight is in normal skin

ive turned mods off and on, restarted the game

is this the right section or is this wrong

[young walrus]

you need all the sprite files, even if they're the vanilla ones

it won't run unless all are there

[queen prawn]

i see

[young walrus]

which installing "custom knight" should do

[queen prawn]

i have that installed

[young walrus]

so if there's only 2 sprite sheets you're changing, then the 2 you put there should overwrite what's there

and the other 4-5 should stay the same

[queen prawn]

thats what im tryna do

but it aint workin

[young walrus]

where are the custom knight files that the mod installed

put the new ones there

and leave the rest

simple as that

[queen prawn]

i have no idea

im gonna un install and re install

and see if that works

[fair rampart]

**Mac**

Yes, mods can be installed on a mac.
You can use the installer
To run the installer:

1. Open the Terminal
2. Type cd $(dirname
3. Drag the exe onto the terminal.
4. Type ) then hit Return/Enter
5. Type mono --arch=32 (Note the space at the end)
6. Drag the exe onto the terminal and then hit Return/Enter

If this fails with bash: mono: command not found then

1. install mono here
2. Open a new terminal window
3. Type/paste in export PATH=/usr/local/bin:${PATH} and hit Return/Enter
4. Repeat steps 2-6 above.

[queen prawn]

im unable to find the files

i un installed and re installed and still havent shown up

is it possible the file is in a different location?

heres where im at

the assembly-csharp.xml may or may not be the right file

mod is there

[brazen mortar]

do the values of grubsong differ from main vessel to reserve vessels?

[copper nacelle]

no

[brazen mortar]

thanks!

[copper nacelle]

@cunning lagoon is the heart first or the smile first

[cunning lagoon]

yea

[drowsy oracle]

[dusky lion]

Thank you smhtoeveryone very cool

[dusky lion]

sean why

[solar jacinth]

what

[dusky lion]

this was in #297468195026239489 by the way

[copper nacelle]

[dusky lion]

sean so deprived for activity he goes in meme

😔

[floral furnace]

[dusky lion]

[iron crown]

[fair rampart]

I have some problem with the mods on Mac, after change the Assembly-CSharp.dll the game crashed

[solar jacinth]

of course it will crash if you change the most important file in the game

[fair rampart]

i have to change that for use the mod

[solar jacinth]

hm didnt know about that

i think you should ask this at modding help

i dont know uch thing

[fair rampart]

ok thanks

[buoyant obsidian]

#archived-modding-development and #297468195026239489 are the only good channels

and are indistinguishable at times

[solar jacinth]

pls forgive öe

me

[floral furnace]

Lightbringer 2 when

[solar jacinth]

pls

753 forgive me

[floral furnace]

are you gonna port it to Silksong

[solar jacinth]

pls

[buoyant obsidian]

never

[solar jacinth]

oOH

[buoyant obsidian]

Silksong will have Darkbringer

[floral furnace]

This

[solar jacinth]

wow

[dusky lion]

Gun mod when

@Bburrrrito

[solar jacinth]

mod gun when

[floral furnace]

my school requires me to answer "never"

[dusky lion]

Drop out of uni when

[floral furnace]

soon™

[jovial vault]

lmao imagine going to school

[trim totem]

hotdog emoji

[solar jacinth]

ttaco

ttacco

[dusky lion]

🌭

[lament garden]

Hey how i program AI in hollow knight?

[solar jacinth]

imagine leaving thinking emoji instead of responding to the comment that calls you

[lament garden]

No don't do it

It's terrible

[solar jacinth]

i was talking bout ttaco

🤔

[lament garden]

Oh

[dusky lion]

No don’t do it

It’s terrible

[solar jacinth]

No don’t do it
It’s terrible

[lament garden]

🤔

[solar jacinth]

welcome to the club

[lament garden]

Modding chanbel mod peoples

[solar jacinth]

they use memes in efficent ways

[lament garden]

I Use memes on lore channel

[solar jacinth]

you could get mute

[lament garden]

But no one get it

[solar jacinth]

just tell them hornet is void

[lament garden]

Vornet is hoid

[solar jacinth]

wow

[lament garden]

[solar jacinth]

void is hornet

[lament garden]

Wait what are we doing on freaking modding channel

[solar jacinth]

and maps are drawn with void

[lament garden]

We are not mods

[solar jacinth]

yes you are right we should go before getting banned

[vivid crag]

Pog

[solemn rivet]

Hollowic you program AI just like anything else

[dusky lion]

Use fsm

.

[vivid crag]

56 why do you have 52 subs and not 56

[fierce prism]

lets make 4 additional accounts and sub to 56

[mortal trout]

let's all die

[fierce prism]

sounds good

[buoyant obsidian]

when will 56 beat T-Series :(

[fickle heron]

hollow knight but every enemy is the t-series logo mod when

[fierce prism]

approximately when he changes name to 82642857

quik mafs

[umbral nebula]

How does one add the glass soul mod? I didn't see it on the mod loading thing

[umbral nebula]

Thank you

[ornate rivet]

How does one add kill myself mod? I didn't see it on the mod loading thing

[copper nacelle]

what

[lament garden]

Wait what

[ornate rivet]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/384146478354137091/551730478227521537/unknown.png

[copper nacelle]

no

[mortal trout]

no

[weak lodge]

no

[solemn rivet]

yes

[vagrant leaf]

yes

[trim totem]

incredibly cursed

[solemn rivet]

UwU

That moment when you react to your own message because everyone else is

Anyone else try to mod their own character into hollow knight?

753 did

Cool

I haven’t gotten far but I will do it!

[copper nacelle]

incredible

[solemn rivet]

What a day to be alive

[weak lodge]

too bad half of us arn't alive

[solemn rivet]

What if you're alive but dead inside

Does that count?

[weak lodge]

probably

[tiny pier]

@solemn rivet what character ?

[solemn rivet]

The white cloaked knight

Or muzznik, whatever you prefer

[tiny pier]

i havnt seen them, ill look into it

wait

is that the grub mother replacement or am i being dumb

[copper nacelle]

it is

[tiny pier]

ahh

i have seen it

alright

thanks

[copper nacelle]

KDT also modded in some character from Momodora

[tiny pier]

from what

and who

[copper nacelle]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/428550/Momodora_Reverie_Under_The_Moonlight/

Steam

Momodora: Reverie Under The Moonlight

Momodora: Reverie Under The Moonlight takes the player on a journey through a cursed land on the brink of eradication. Evil spreads, the dead rise, and corruption reigns. Hope is but a faded memory for all but one: a priestess named Kaho from the village of Lun. If only Kaho ...

Price

$9.99

Recommendations

5386

Metacritic

82

▶ Play video

@ KDT#7539

[tiny pier]

im not very knowledgeable about the modding scene

[copper nacelle]

https://gfycat.com/TepidEnragedLeafcutterant

[solemn rivet]

What's her name again kuro/seanpr/kdt?

[copper nacelle]

who

[solemn rivet]

Momodora gothic lolita boss

I have KDT's code on my pc and could check, but currently am on bed trying to sleep, so can't

Oh well

[cunning lagoon]

i do not recognize this character

which does make sense given that i haven't played the game

[copper nacelle]

Fennel

[solemn rivet]

Wait, you haven't played it?

But

Was it angle then?

I was sure someone had played it somewhat recently

[copper nacelle]

idk

[tiny pier]

i like filling note books with mod ideas anybody got some charm ideas

[empty zenith]

Make a charm that costs 11 notches and it’s called “Facetank squad”,it’s Shape of Unn, Deep Focus, Quick Focus and Unbreakable/Fragile Heart all in 1 with a special look

@tiny pier

[tiny pier]

wow

hm

:Pale mask "

anybody got lifeblood charm ideas specifically

i really like the lifeblood theme

interactions work too

like if you equip deep focus and jonis blessing you can heal lifeblood but 50% slower than deep focus and only 1 mask

[copper nacelle]

joni's blessing and lbc spawns seeds or something

[tiny pier]

ibc?

wait

got it

life blood core

[buoyant obsidian]

soulblood that makes your health also your soul

so one descending dark costs one mask

etc

[tiny pier]

oooh thtd be cool

[buoyant obsidian]

and healing could be automatic or not whichever fits more balance wise

[tiny pier]

hm

i like this sould blood idea

[buoyant obsidian]

or just keep it simple and make it extra spell charges once you're out of mana at the cost of health

[tiny pier]

thatd be fun

put jonis blessing

and soul twister

spam

[buoyant obsidian]

yeah it would have great synergy if you made it a charm that turned all lifeblood to soulblood

[charred parrot]

how2leveldesign

[buoyant obsidian]

which just allows casting of spells when you don't have soul

at health cost

[tiny pier]

life blood could act as extra soul canisters

[buoyant obsidian]

it would make a great and easy replacement to an existing charm, offering a lot more spice but realistically not offering much in terms of power

and you could leave the existing lifeblood charm's effect on it

[tiny pier]

that sounds awesome

[buoyant obsidian]

I've been thinking of how a Lightbringer with a soul meter instead of masks would work

replace the whole health hud with just a bar of light

[tiny pier]

it would be interesting

what would they do with soul canisters

[buoyant obsidian]

it could all just be hp increases just at smaller increments

[tiny pier]

good idea

it would be cool if the person who made light bringer could see this

[buoyant obsidian]

for sure

all the soul regen mechanics would need to be reworked though

[tiny pier]

true

[buoyant obsidian]

and the final product isn't even that impactful

[copper nacelle]

[buoyant obsidian]

holy shit

[tiny pier]

if they wanted a big impact spells should cost more

[buoyant obsidian]

the Lightbringer creator himself, 56

[tiny pier]

what

[charred parrot]

Guy who made Lightbringer?

More like

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhi- not gonna say it

[tiny pier]

oh

[cunning lagoon]

hello yes i was told you wanted to talk to the creator of lightbringer

what is it

[charred parrot]

how do you do

lightbringer creator

[tiny pier]

you?

wow

hi

[cunning lagoon]

im doing fine thanks

hi

[tiny pier]

great mod

[charred parrot]

thanks I made it

[tiny pier]

... from what ive seen

[buoyant obsidian]

it's spelled Lightbringer but it's pronounced like binge

with an r

[copper nacelle]

kuro is the esteemed creator of BetterDebug.dll

[charred parrot]

plot twist I created lightbringer all along

[tiny pier]

i cant play on switch but ive seen vids

[charred parrot]

has anyone ever modded full levels in?

or just changes to game mechanics

and turning the Radiance Red and making it play Soviet music

[tiny pier]

if they added new levels id want them to be in the hive

that place suck

[buoyant obsidian]

I'd argue boss fights and ranged attacks all fit under new mechanics

[tiny pier]

for soul blood ?

[charred parrot]

Boss Fights are baaaaasically just new enemy types

I'm talking who new levels

has anyone every done that

like created new rooms

[cunning lagoon]

there's cherry madness

[buoyant obsidian]

Cherry madness?

[copper nacelle]

some guy said he would make like 8 new levels

[tiny pier]

what about a colony kingdom for hallownest

[copper nacelle]

said he coded the mod in c++

[buoyant obsidian]

amazing

[copper nacelle]

commissioned art

and then died

[buoyant obsidian]

oh how unfortunate

[copper nacelle]

he also said he would put coal in gradow's eye sockets

and asked where gradow lived

[buoyant obsidian]

if HK wasn't 2.5D I'd totally make new levels

but I'm not willing to learn that

[charred parrot]

whats wrong with 2.5D?

[copper nacelle]

effort

[cunning lagoon]

a D is a D, you can't say it's only half

[charred parrot]

I mean is it not just assets with different Z values?

to create the parallax?

I don't know what you have to go trhough to create new levels granted

[buoyant obsidian]

yeah but I don't really wanna find those values and get the camera to work properly

[copper nacelle]

checking z values sucks

[buoyant obsidian]

yep

[charred parrot]

I'm just imagining it within the context of how they put it together in unity

[copper nacelle]

nes made a level editor

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[buoyant obsidian]

if we had access to unity scenes it'd be different

[charred parrot]

that'd be a game changer

you'd have access to everything

[buoyant obsidian]

is it released?

[copper nacelle]

yeah

[charred parrot]

everything

[copper nacelle]

there's even a mod which loads the changed scenes

[buoyant obsidian]

oh has anyone actually touched it

[copper nacelle]

i think saleh tried

and nes did something

[buoyant obsidian]

HK's asset instantiation isn't my favorite so I wouldn't wanna touch that stuff myself

especially with 300 unlabeled asset bundles that change between patches

[copper nacelle]

https://github.com/nesrak1/HKWorldEdit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hLyvyG6M4Q

[charred parrot]

holy fuck

[cunning lagoon]

oh my...

[charred parrot]

HOLY FUCK

[buoyant obsidian]

ok hold up

can it load and save level files without anything breaking?

if so get ready for some Lightbringer changes

[copper nacelle]

I think so

I haven't used it except for the early stages

[buoyant obsidian]

I'll give it a shot maybe over spring break

[cunning lagoon]

hey 753 what if you made a level editor for iconoclasts

[charred parrot]

time to see how levels are put together

and copy the shit out of it

[buoyant obsidian]

Hey DL what if you bought me Iconoclasts

[charred parrot]

what if you bought ME Iconoclasts

what then

[buoyant obsidian]

ok me sleep now, gotta wake up for crypto in 5 hours

[copper nacelle]

sleeping i sleep

3:23 am i awake

[charred parrot]

I swear to fuck though if those gameobject names are the actual names of the files

holy crap they need to make a better naming convention

[copper nacelle]

which ones

level{x}?

or BG_pillar (3)\GG_statues_0003_2 (1)

[cunning lagoon]

this tbh

[warped sinew]

pretty sure its just Z values

there used to be bugs where two objects had the same Z value and it will go crazy on the screen

[ornate rivet]

reeeeeee I thought nes updated the thing

[tiny pier]

what if they made a lifeblod mode you could only have life blood masks and thats it

lifeblood charms would be removed

except lbc

that would replace unbrekable heart charm thingy

[hollow hearth]

too much effort for a simple "no healing" challenge

[fair rampart]

;1

[blissful ibex]

mod for random room generator

[mossy pike]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l1BbXS3BCmuyfqUjKzc_XBNXRmnMvYo7n-kiQzeoApU/edit#gid=0

logic has been recently completely figured out by homothety

[solemn rivet]

yeah, mad props to homothety

[mossy pike]

it will happen eventually

[solemn rivet]

Mick just told me this the other day

[mossy pike]

lol yeah, Mick had this project for monthsnow

and homothety just did everything in about a week

my guess would be that it will probably happen after the rando bingo tournament (i mean that runners will pressurize modders into doing it )

[solar jacinth]

how do i edit assembyly csharp after opening it with dnspy

[floral furnace]

i think there should be an option somewhere that allows you to edit the dll

[mossy pike]

wtf homothety also did item logic within room rando

the mad man

[solemn rivet]

what

[solar jacinth]

well actually there was

i edit

[solemn rivet]

I was just asking sean about that the other day

[solar jacinth]

but it didnt work

[floral furnace]

edit as in, not just opening it right

[solar jacinth]

i right clicked the code and saw c# edit section , i pressed and a tab opened wich allowed me to edit , i edited the code , i searched for a save button but there wasnt any , so i closed the tab and nothing happened to the code

[floral furnace]

right and then edit method/class right?

[solar jacinth]

yes

[floral furnace]

then, youre clicking the "compile" button at the bottom right?

[solar jacinth]

yes

[floral furnace]

hmm, i have nothing then
i have no idea, i dont use it other than to steal borrow source code

[solar jacinth]

i see thanks

[rain cedar]

Oh yeah I never responded to the thing

@solemn rivet It's probably easier to start out with considering item rando

Since the mods will have to communicate during randomization

[young walrus]

item rando tries to put item at location, room rando says if that's reachable or not, if no, try again

assuming the room rando runs first

i suppose you could build it the other way too where items are randomized first

then room rando checks the randomization to make sure everything can be reached

I think the former would be more interesting

[rain cedar]

I was thinking do them at the same time

[young walrus]

that'd probably be best

[rain cedar]

Place rooms until a progression blocker is hit, then place an item to overcome it

[young walrus]

so.... will there be 2 modes?

coupled and de-coupled load zones?

[rain cedar]

I'm not sure what you mean

[young walrus]

leaving a room sends you back to the room you came from is coupled

leaving a room you just entered sends to completely new room

de-coupled

[rain cedar]

That sounds like hell

[young walrus]

they send you to the same places every time

but it's not back to the room you just came from

like coupled

think beta-quest for OoT

that'd be de-coupled

[rain cedar]

Beta quest means nothing to me but I get the idea

Sounds much harder to map in your head

[young walrus]

a lot of times in beta quest, they'll hold back and keep leaving right away if they don't want to be in that area

and it'll send them to a new area

would allow a lot more "randomness"

and fewer item restrictions

[mossy pike]

beta quest doesn't have any logic tho

but i guess random decoupled loads isn't that different to code from coupled loads

[young walrus]

you'd just remove logic probably

set any load to any other load

could be an interesting experiment

room rando is going to fuck with your brain regardless

so either mode is going to be stupid hard

[unborn flicker]

Decoupled transitions sounds boring af in this game though

Especially with load normalizer

[mossy pike]

i was imagining the randomization as having a starting room and a pool of rooms where you have at least one accessible transition, and you just make sure you have an accessible path from your starting room

[unborn flicker]

IMO the interesting part is going through the rooms ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[mossy pike]

and once you reach a progression block, you put a progression item

[young walrus]

well with de-coupled, you'd end up with load loops

you will anyways likely

it's not like going back through will lead to a new location always

and there will be lots of dead ends

[mossy pike]

the difference between decoupled and coupled would be that you can put a room where you come from, so not really different

oh but then the randomization after placing every progress items could make loops i guess

unless you make sure they are connected to the starting room i guess

[young walrus]

de-coupled would make finding things much harder too

imagine you find the wings drop room

but don't have claw

so you have to leave

coupled, you just go back down the path you came from

[unborn flicker]

You can go back down the path you came regardless, as long as you keep notes

But with the scale of HK compared to, say, OOT, I don't think keeping notes on every side of every transition would be fun

[young walrus]

de-coupled, you have to find that loop again from some other load

it's more fun to play w/o notes

that's what the people do that I watch

so de-coupled would be a much more difficult endeavor

at any rate, we can debate this til we're blue in the face. if de-coupled is just randomizing everything with no logic, we can just try it and see if it sucks or not

[mossy pike]

we're already blue in the name

[young walrus]

[unborn flicker]

There is no way that logicless rando will be possible

Unless you start with claw or something stupid

[young walrus]

no harm in having another mode to try out if there's no effort to make it

so maybe you do de-coupled glitched

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[mossy pike]

on 1.0.2.8

[young walrus]

QoL is a thing

[dusky lion]

I’m the bluest in the name

.

[mossy pike]

anyway, the way i see it, logical decoupled shouldn't be that different from logical coupled

but i can definitely be wrong

[young walrus]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

you'd think anyways

[leaden hedge]

if its all decoupled you could just walk back and forth between one transition

until you end up where you want to be

unless you mean room a and room b can connect to the same exit in room c

[young walrus]

a -> b then b -> a in coupled

but b doesn't go back to a in de-coupled

the transitions are always leading to the same spot every time

[leaden hedge]

but b backwards would go to a fixed place?

[young walrus]

yes

just not room a

it wouldn't be like a chaos mode, where it's always randomized every time you transition

[leaden hedge]

this some 4d shit

where you gotta come into room b from room c, then go into room a, then back into room b and it sends you to room d

[young walrus]

helpful diagram

[leaden hedge]

I understand the mechanics
I guess if every room could go to every room it'd get kinda cancer though

[lament garden]

hollow knight is 64 bit game?

[copper nacelle]

Only on Linux

[lament garden]

so on windows is 32-bit. ok

[lament garden]

why dnSpy.exe don't want to open?

[copper nacelle]

Idk you tell me

[weak lodge]

ask it politely

[copper nacelle]

That's the most vague error description ever

No one can help if you don't give details

[lament garden]

oh i'm little dumb

i didn't extrackted it

[copper nacelle]

[fierce prism]

oh youre dig bumb

[copper nacelle]

Doesn't file manager literally complain when you try to run something without extracting it

[lament garden]

nope

now it's time to mod without experience

[weak lodge]

Sounds like me but I never tried this much

so gj

[fair rampart]

KnightmereAttempts !> 0

[copper nacelle]

No

Delete this

That's the worst syntax I've ever seen

[fair rampart]

[buoyant obsidian]

the fuck is a !>

[young walrus]

is not greater than 0

[copper nacelle]

It doesn't exist

It's just <=

[lament garden]

^

[brazen mortar]

smh not making a "like my will to live" joke

[copper nacelle]

Just like my will to live it's less than or equal to 0

[lament garden]

okay i'm seeking primal aspid code and stuff. Or it isn't here?

[copper nacelle]

It isn't

Primal aspids are enemies

Enemy AI is FSM

[lament garden]

so we're i can find them

[copper nacelle]

There's an FSM viewer in pins

[lament garden]

thx

oh

this script for one enemy?

[copper nacelle]

Yes

If you want to have a good time check out final boss core - hollow knight boss

[lament garden]

no good bye

but what enemy?

okay nevermind

[dusky lion]

You’re welcome

[solemn rivet]

I don't get decoupled

[unborn flicker]

I guess the idea is to get as much randomization as possible?
I'm not a fan for the reason brought up earlier: it doesn't map well at all, so exploration suffers, and you generally can't route back to places you've been.

Not to say that it couldn't be fun in its own right though

[leaden hedge]

decoupled would probably be fun solo once or twice

but coupled is probably way better for races

[unborn flicker]

I would be down to race either, for sure, but I feel like decoupling transitions would add a lot of time to the seed length 😫

[leaden hedge]

mainly because decoupled has the problem that'll you'll have to go back through every transition to check where that takes you, but you can't then go back to check every other transition

[solemn rivet]

I mean, is decoupled like enemy rando chaos mode, with each transition randomized?

[leaden hedge]

and you might only be one room away, but get sent to like some massive unrelated loop

its fixed

but going back through the transition you went through

won't send you back to the room you came from

[unborn flicker]

decoupled simply treats each side of a transition as a different object in the randomization

[solemn rivet]

Right

Got it

Sounds fun

[leaden hedge]

its not random each time

yeah probably not if you're going fast Kappa

[solemn rivet]

Yeah, it's not good for races

[leaden hedge]

and you get sent into some massive loop with only one exit to where you need to be

[solemn rivet]

Oh yeah, the logic has to prevent loops as well, even for coupled

Like, if scene A has one entrance which you can drop into but need claw to exit, and two other exits that send you to B, another scene with only two transitions which send you to A

That'd be a loop you can get into, but not out of

[unborn flicker]

That seems like it could be hard to force. I suppose you have the stag stations to place at the bottom of a chain like that maybe

Could also give an option to warp back to King's Pass, that way you only have to check accessibility in one direction

[solemn rivet]

Hmm

But that kinda breaks the flow of item rando

It's simple, really: item rando logic has to be strong enough to prevent dead ends

Which is easier said than done

[unborn flicker]

A lot of the pickups are softlocks anyways though if they aren't claw

That's actually true in vanilla too: Claw, CH, and Tear would be softlocks if they didn't give progression lol

For example, I was thinking of the White Lady's fragment. That's a room you can check with no items at all, but it's impossible to leave unless you get claw. I'm not sure there's any way to handle that kind of scenario (unless you hardcoded it to warp out afterwards?)

[solemn rivet]

I assume you noted that in your mapping?

[unborn flicker]

The mapping only notes requirements to travel between distinct transitions

[solemn rivet]

If so, all that needs to be done is put in logic that you can't access a room if you don't have the required items to exit

[unborn flicker]

So, the only way to tell if you can go back up A is for there to be another transition B and both paths A->B and B->A to be possible

[young walrus]

You lower the load

Same that Sean did in colo

[unborn flicker]

Also, single entrance rooms don't have room logic for that reason, so some (for example, the room below Dung Defender) are inescapable without certain item requirements

[solemn rivet]

Or that

[young walrus]

This problem exists everywhere tho right. Wings room. If you go into it, you cant leave, except through a save quit

But is that a problem

[unborn flicker]

The other problem is that even if logic forced paths are reversible, that doesn't guarantee that every path from start is reversible unless you compute every single one

[young walrus]

You always have that option to leave

Maybe all the benches you've sat on could be added to a menu

So you can quit to any of them

[unborn flicker]

Ooh that would be cool

[young walrus]

Sort of like alttp has with sanctuary, home, and mountain

[hollow pier]

or make it so you can only quit to the sanctum bench

[unborn flicker]

I was just going to say I was imagining this scenario where every bench gets mapped to be within 10 rooms of start, because it's too taxing to verify accessibility

[young walrus]

Being able to bench warp though would help

[unborn flicker]

Definitely. And it would free up a lot of concerns in traveling, and make up for the fact that the 12 stags aren't guaranteed at all to be good

[solemn rivet]

Nice idea

Kinda like ds2/3 bonfire warping

[young walrus]

Yup

[unborn flicker]

Sanctum bench would actually be god tier in this mode ptkyr, with access to 5 transitions

Same for Salubra

[hazy sentinel]

sanctum bench was always god tier

[unborn flicker]

false, and disgusting

[young walrus]

You mean the homothety bench

[unborn flicker]

Sorry you can't be a homothety bench if you're not in Deepnest. that's really just the way it is

[young walrus]

You don't get to pick when something is coined after you

That's your bench now

[unborn flicker]

Ok, since it's my bench, no one is allowed to sit on it during item rando. Thanks for coming to my TED talk

😤

[solemn rivet]

Or maybe adding an item that works like a homeward bone would be nice

[floral furnace]

rotten eggs

[leaden hedge]

input konami code in 15frames to teleport home

[unborn flicker]

Could you make "return to bench" a pause menu option?

If that's what we're talking about, that is

Consumables don't seem great for a anti-softlock/anti-frustration feature. The 20 rancid eggs are in pretty bad locations anyways, iirc. Just my two cents

[unborn flicker]

Maybe the randomizer could force a bench in a side room every so many rooms in the logic chain? That way no softlock is ever too far from a respawn point.
Hmmm, still doesn't account for non-logic paths though

[young walrus]

what do you mean non-logic paths

like, aren't part of the whole?

isolated loops?

or are you saying long stretches of rooms that have no items in them

[unborn flicker]

So, the randomization process is going to create a series of linear paths through the seed which together can access every progression item/key/lever/wall/gate. If it works like other randomizers, I believe that afterwards it will simply append the remaining rooms to the existing structure without consulting logic, since logic is no longer necessary.

That means that you could end up with a long chain of traversable rooms near start that leads nowhere. Not a big deal, I imagine, since that's really part of what you sign up for with a randomizer anyways.

I was just pointing out that if such a chain had no benches and ended in a lot of softlocks, it might get annoying to explore. I don't think we'll be able to know how frequent or how big a deal that will be before we have a working model though

[young walrus]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-andy-bernard-dallas-thats-well-gif-13455718

[dusky lion]

monkaHmm

[solemn rivet]

zestiria's combat is growing on me

I still hate the directional inputs tho

[leaden eagle]

where is the link for mod downloads

[weary oyster]

return to bench in pause menu sounds like a nice QoL feature

[copper nacelle]

Swapping FieldInfos to cached delegates sounds like a nice API feature

don't maggot me

[hollow hearth]

rewriting hollow knights entire code in a less messy way sounds nice

[copper nacelle]

no

[dusky lion]

[copper nacelle]

[solar jacinth]

oh god

forgive me

[hollow hearth]

i shall fully become 56

so i can learn to mod without effort

[dusky lion]

I shall fully become a speedrunner

.

[copper nacelle]

Ok but seriously cached delegates are so much faster

Over a million calls it's a difference of 3 seconds vs .025 seconds

I still need to compare it to the speed of runtime IL generation

But IL is supposed to be faster I think

averages from a benchmark I found

The delegates are compiled expression trees

IL Emit would be better

[hollow hearth]

it be the very fast

[floral furnace]

does this mean reflection is dead

[cunning lagoon]

🦀

[copper nacelle]

No this is just reflection via LINQ Expression trees

and IL emission

It's still reflection

[floral furnace]

i mean as long as the declaration isnt annoying its already better

[copper nacelle]

don't worry it's more annoying

🦀

[floral furnace]

:echprime:

[floral furnace]

hnhhhhhhhhh

[solemn rivet]

e

[cunning lagoon]

m

[copper nacelle]

i
t (System.Reflection)

[dusky lion]

Lambda

Half-Life 3 confirmed

[copper nacelle]

λ

[dusky lion]

λ

[copper nacelle]

[dusky lion]

nO

I get to stay home because I projectile vomited after taking 7 steps away from my desk

[solar jacinth]

why did i click that link

[dusky lion]

.

[floral furnace]

this hsould be in the musuem of digital arts ngl

[dusky lion]

Note that I say desk and not bed because I didn’t sleep

[copper nacelle]

Same

[dusky lion]

However I am going to sleep now because high fever gang

Goodnight my cuties

[copper nacelle]

First is FieldInfo, Second is LINQ Expression Trees, Third one is DynamicMethod w/ IL Emission

I reduced it to .004

Linq can do private fields as well but idk if IL can also do it

[solemn rivet]

Are you... Ok? Why do you need so many ms?

Do you owe money to the wrong people and have to pay them with hyper time efficient code?

[acoustic sequoia]

Hey guys. I used that fix : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1566566333

to play on my Z35P, 3440x1440. Works perfectly.

Except ONE THING, the game is lock at 60 FPS, i can't play at 120 FPS. Wich is a real problem with my 120Hz screen :/.

I tried everything in my power, but i don't know what's wrong :/. And the game worked at 120 FPS, TWICE, NO IDEA HOW. --"

[copper nacelle]

Efficient code is good

[mossy pike]

Une table

even though this is not the right channel to ask (#hk-help might be better suited), what causes the game to be at 60fps is normally Vsync. Latest patches of the game have other fps caps but i don't really know how they work, if those don't work, just deactivate Vsync and cap the framerate with another software (RivaTuner for instance)

[brazen mortar]

someone explain how this works please

[young walrus]

how what works

poor grammar?

[brazen mortar]

tank builds = involved?

amazing

[rain cedar]

Why are you putting quotes from a random dude in #hk-discussion here?

[mossy pike]

nobody takes #archived-modding-development seriously 😔

[vivid crag]

^

[mossy pike]

https://youtu.be/yc3Jo65Lct4

[brazen mortar]

im questioning the logistics of tanking being involved gameplay

[solemn rivet]

mola

[brazen mortar]

because discussion is no help

[solemn rivet]

I almost didn't recognize you

tanking is scrubplay

[brazen mortar]

i have changed my identity

[solemn rivet]

indeed

[brazen mortar]

moved to south america

[solemn rivet]

oof

welcome to hell

[brazen mortar]

changed my credit card numbers

[solemn rivet]

here's your complimentary malaria

and dengue

[brazen mortar]

thanks!

[solemn rivet]

seriously tho, get the hell away from here

but, yeah

tanking is not involved, whatever involved is

[brazen mortar]

keul keul

[copper nacelle]

This is the worst nickname trend

[weak lodge]

Yes

[hollow hearth]

dunno man

having a short name is quite nice

[fair rampart]

mutual servers: Hollow Knight
looks up user messages
NO MESSAGES ON THIS SERVER

[young walrus]

Hei

[mortal trout]

Hei

[solemn rivet]

Hei

[hazy sentinel]

黑

[brazen mortar]

black

[hollow pier]

madelyn binoche

[brazen mortar]

黑人

[brazen mortar]

racist

[leaden hedge]

thats chinese and everyone knows only japan is racist

黒人 this would have been racist

[fair rampart]

Isn't 黑鬼 the racist term

[charred parrot]

anyone happen to have the "Listen" graphic that appears above NPC names?

[leaden hedge]

its in the sprite sheets

[charred parrot]

I downloaded aaaaall the assets and I can't for the life of me find it

its not named "listen" or "talk" or "NPC" or any variation 🤔

[leaden hedge]

its in the ui stuff

with the white fleurs

[charred parrot]

do you have a download source thats more organized?

bcause mine is just.... all of them

in 1 file

[leaden hedge]

i just use assetbundle explorer

[charred parrot]

mind just tossing me the png for the sake of simplicity >_>

[leaden hedge]

i deleted everything i have to do with hollow knight like 6 months ago

[charred parrot]

well thats depressing

[leaden hedge]

its not that hard to find though

if you find the rest of the ui stuff for shops and such

its right there

[charred parrot]

holy fuck

thats a lot of time

[young walrus]

lel

[leaden hedge]

don't think hk is even in my top 5

its not only just though

[charred parrot]

how the hell did celeste take so much oh your time

[leaden hedge]

I tased it

[buoyant obsidian]

maybe he's really bad at it

[leaden hedge]

90% of that is the tas

[buoyant obsidian]

give him a break

[hollow pier]

when is 114% tas i think it'd be a really cool, refreshing and new idea

[leaden hedge]

never

[young walrus]

https://www.reddit.com/r/speedrun/comments/96rvht/tas_celeste_any_in_2447653_by_devilsquirrel_kdt/

[leaden hedge]

cause the pain of doing ch6 without fastforward forever killed my will to tas celeste

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sucgPaAUiR0 this is newer

[hollow pier]

hey i was watching that

[leaden hedge]

unlucky

[buoyant obsidian]

imagine taking the time to type TAS for your name

sub-optimal

[leaden hedge]

doesn't count for ingame time

which we use

[buoyant obsidian]

ah

[young walrus]

neither does pausing

[hollow pier]

type something faster like 753 instead

[young walrus]

20 hr pause in the middle of a TAS, when

[leaden hedge]

all the pausing related speedups got removed

it used to be faster to restart rooms over doing the transition

so you'd pause on the first frame of every up transition and restart, doing a 2 second restart animation

to save like 5 frames ingame

[hazy sentinel]

unbelievable

[leaden hedge]

nep nep nep nep

[buoyant obsidian]

BaBa is You came out today

[dusky lion]

nep nep nep nep

[weak lodge]

When is bee simulator coming out

[civic hare]

baba is you looks cool

also hyper light drifter sequel announced

[weak lodge]

wait what

are you sure sequel or just another game

[civic hare]

same universe at least https://youtu.be/vKxk_dPskpU

[buoyant obsidian]

real shit

[weak lodge]

epic games store

wtf

no steam

[dusky lion]

ah yes epic games store

my favorite

[civic hare]

ebic

ive never used epic games store but eternal steam monopoly would be worse imo. itchio is better than either tho

[buoyant obsidian]

https://www.twitch.tv/x753/

streaming BaBa is you race

[floral furnace]

obligatory reminded me when spiral knights wasnt dead pensive

[gilded lotus]

i need your guys help which one do i go

[iron crown]

You break the geneva convention if you don't pick Turtle

[midnight prairie]

Hey im not sure how introduce this but we're looking for anyone who'd be interested in coding a game with us. Its a Hollow Knight fan game thats currently underway and we're searching for a second coder.

[solemn rivet]

"we"?

[midnight prairie]

I and a group of other individuals from this server channel.

I was sent here to see if anyone would be interested since this would be the place with the most experience.

[young walrus]

I'd toss out more of a pitch than just "we're making a game, who's in?" Tbh

[midnight prairie]

Fair enough.

Not very good at this.

Gonna let someone who knows whats up explain it better.

[charred parrot]

We're making a Hollow Knight fangame using the Unity engine, coded in C#. I'm the other programmer. So far I've got a working character controller and combat system along with respawn, scene transitions, conversation system etc etc. The base game is effectively already there. We already have a composer and 2 artists that can produce shit like this.

Just looking for a second dude to lighten the load and bounce stuff off of.

Game looks like this atm

https://gyazo.com/7dc4d999d35a829aef959bf5006def28

https://gyazo.com/647f774af4e93bf7f1d735330d8e04f1

https://gyazo.com/2e622c3f922159ac9e490302c7a0467f

[rain cedar]

Looks similar enough that you could steal hk components for it

Of course they'd break

But y'know

You could

[charred parrot]

Like copy pasterino the code?

Not down.

[iron crown]

It's still an option if you get lazy

[rain cedar]

There's gonna be ip issues with this anyway

[young walrus]

It's dangerously close to the fair use line

if you're not directly ripping assets or code though, should be okay

[charred parrot]

Depends on TCs stance on fangames I guess.

[rain cedar]

Not directly ripping assets

Unfortunate

[charred parrot]

placeholder

give me a break

everything will be original by the end

[rain cedar]

Cool

[young walrus]

nothing really to worry about then, imo

[brazen mortar]

placeholder too i assume

[rain cedar]

Wait is that a charm notch?

[charred parrot]

if you think a single bench as a placeholder is bad

[brazen mortar]

yeah

[iron crown]

I don't get the big deal

[charred parrot]

dude for testing I was running around scenes like these

[iron crown]

He obviously just got a bit lazy

[charred parrot]

https://gyazo.com/a35210ba23868186e55e1e10dc196b2b

I legit coudnt find the Geo sprite

[iron crown]

And intends to change it later

[charred parrot]

so I just took the closest geo looking thing

[iron crown]

Inferior geo sprite

[brazen mortar]

smh

have you heard of map pins

[charred parrot]

sir I believe you uh, just passed me illegal goods

[iron crown]

Mola why are you Jessica

[brazen mortar]

i know no one uses map pins

but they look cool

[iron crown]

Calm down man it's 1 geo

[dusky lion]

^ illegal asset

[iron crown]

Mola why are you Jessica

[charred parrot]

if I copy the file 10,000 times

it would be 10k geo

[brazen mortar]

imagine this as geo

obviously superior

[rain cedar]

For some actual advice, over an hour after you asked for help

Two things are gonna get people to work with you:

1. money
2. they know you already

[iron crown]

Expecting actual help in #archived-modding-development

[young walrus]

more like.... "expecting free work on a huge scale project in #archived-modding-development "

[rain cedar]

This is so much better than usual

It's hk related

They're helping

[iron crown]

They already have two artists on board, so I'm sure one of them is capable of drawing a symbol for money

[rain cedar]

They have results already

[young walrus]

no doubt

but still asking for essentially free labor

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[iron crown]

So, modding idea

[young walrus]

unless there's a written agreement for profit sharing or something

[rain cedar]

Profit sharing is like 1% better than free labor

[iron crown]

Remove share modding ideas from channel topic so people stop getting memed despite technically doing nothing wrong

[rain cedar]

People don't look at topics lol

[buoyant obsidian]

are those ranged attacks I see

I'm going to have to sue you

Only Lightbringer can have those

[iron crown]

[brazen mortar]

counter offer with recognition

[iron crown]

But the thing is

[brazen mortar]

"you get your name in the special thanks portion of the credits"

[iron crown]

Seanpr

We will obtain the moral high ground to insult people if it gets removed

[charred parrot]

@buoyant obsidian Does lightbringer have copyright over ranged attacks in a HK setting?

woo Geo

[iron crown]

Yes this is how it works now

[buoyant obsidian]

Lightbringer owns all ranged attacks in all games

as well as the color white

[dusky lion]

Hey guys i have idea for mod! You can make play able bosses mod but here player cant use knight's scills only scills of boss

[cunning lagoon]

Hey guys i have idea for mod! You can make play able bosses mod but here player cant use knight's scills only scills of boss

[fair rampart]

[charred parrot]

Holy shit the color white?

fuck man we're going to need to work that out

don't wanna get sued

[fair rampart]

753 has monopoly on HEX #FFFFFF

[young walrus]

really it just seems like y'all are just making a game at this point

if everything will be original

[charred parrot]

see this sqaure? he owns this sqaure

[brazen mortar]

But with what just the code copied over?

[rain cedar]

A game with very heavy inspiration

Which is fine

[buoyant obsidian]

actually don't tell anyone but

[rain cedar]

See: Salt & Sanctuary

[charred parrot]

I'm not copying the code over.

[buoyant obsidian]

I only own #FFFEFF

nobody can tell though

[charred parrot]

HK code is... too messy to copy over I've looked through it.

Plus I don't want to do that.

[rain cedar]

Oh yeah I have another piece of advice

Scrap Unity before it's too late

[charred parrot]

What?

[rain cedar]

Unity is a piece of garbage

[fair rampart]

lmao

[charred parrot]

It's fine.

[buoyant obsidian]

take that back

[rain cedar]

Incorrect

[buoyant obsidian]

Unity is great, I love being able to mod any game released in Unity

[rain cedar]

You can mod any game released in MonoGame too

[fair rampart]

would you prefer they use adobe flash?

[buoyant obsidian]

MonoGame?

[rain cedar]

abode

[charred parrot]

Would you prefer Scartch

[jovial vault]

Love me some abode

[young walrus]

i'd love some scotch

[jovial vault]

Stencyl is clearly the best guys

[charred parrot]

Wrong low tier trash

[fair rampart]

clearly it should be html

[rain cedar]

I can understand why people use Unity

It's very beginner friendly

With that said I would never use it by choice

Beginner friendly tends to be a synonym for restrictive

[charred parrot]

Meh it does the job. It's picked itself up over the past few years imo.

[rain cedar]

There's only so much they can do to fix it

The core is fucked

They can't fix that without breaking everything people are used to

[dusky lion]

use source

.

[charred parrot]

Well for this project it does what I need it to do. HK it's a 2D platfomer. Unity will suffice.

[rain cedar]

Yeah it works

And it's better than nothing

[charred parrot]

Also ya we are effectively just making a game. It functions like HK but the character controls a bit differently.

More floaty knockback.

More floaty in general.

We're trying to focus on aerial combat since it sounds like it'd be fun.

[rain cedar]

The double jump looks actually responsive

[fair rampart]

so silksong

[rain cedar]

Which is good

[charred parrot]

Shhhh

we don't say that word

Oh the Jump is 100% the HK jump

[rain cedar]

Prioritizing aesthetic over gameplay is the biggest problem with hk

[charred parrot]

Not like it's some.... revolutionary thing

if jumping and velocity.y is greater than zero when you let go of the button

velocity y = 0

woooooo

magical

[rain cedar]

I actually like that better than how most games do jumps

[charred parrot]

it feels good

[rain cedar]

Works out nicely because it's trivial to make

[charred parrot]

got pogo'ing in there

basically the penultimate HK move

[dusky lion]

if pogoing is the 2nd greatest move what is the first

[copper nacelle]

jumping

[cunning lagoon]

gunboosting

[iron crown]

dying before being born

[charred parrot]

canceling gravity

because somehow that was a thing

[jovial vault]

Walking forward

[cunning lagoon]

just make the double jump not take you down before taking you up

[charred parrot]

it doesnt

[cunning lagoon]

then it will be automatically better than hk

[charred parrot]

it's a weaker normal jump

[midnight prairie]

Well this is certaintly a conversation.

[rain cedar]

Well this is certaintly a conversation.

[charred parrot]

Well this is a conversation certainly.

[dusky lion]

Well this is certaintly a conversation.

[midnight prairie]

Well okay then.

[charred parrot]

❤

[fair rampart]

Hey guys i have idea for mod! You can make play able bosses mod but here player cant use knight's scills only scills of boss

[hollow pier]

Well iconoclasts is certaintly better than hk.

[cunning lagoon]

Well iconoclasts is certaintly better than hk.

[dusky lion]

If you say something in either modding or speedrunning there is a 50% chance it will be repeated

[iron crown]

Well this is certaintly a modding idea.

[jovial vault]

Why does modding feel like meme 2.0

[midnight prairie]

I suppose i'll head off now.

[iron crown]

Because it literally is

[brazen mortar]

No that title goes to #off-topic

[hollow pier]

i guess you are doing a 180

[rain cedar]

That's only because there's a 50% chance it's a dumb message

[hollow pier]

haha

[civic hare]

Well getting over it with bennett foddy is certaintly better than hk.

[brazen mortar]

This is more like the third iteration

[iron crown]

Admins never come here so this place is basically an anarchy

[dusky lion]

free to be toxic