yeah it's definitely the "/" paths
#archived-modding-development
hazy sentinel
nail0 no spells collector kthx
stiff notch
pls no mama
buoyant wasp
k. i'll look at it tonight, it's probably a fairly easy fix
copper nacelle
cool
copper nacelle
yeah
that seems pretty great for no change in code
I think all the other errors are just FSM not prepossessed like usual
buoyant wasp
yeah, gotta love logs full of useless errors
buoyant wasp
deal with the same crap at work all the time.
copper nacelle
774 lines were fsm stuff
leaden hedge
you know whats the best
copper nacelle
and 78 were actual info
copper nacelle
lol
buoyant wasp
the unity compiler strips all the line numbers out of the final files. so every failure is on line 0 in unknown filename
basically
vestal hawk
is it only me or is hollow knight on the boss rush unwinnable?
it won't let me absorb him
leaden hedge
you dont absorb him
if your items didn't appear press the skip button
its whatever quickmap is bound to
vestal hawk
quickmap wasn't working for me
buoyant wasp
try "tab"
buoyant wasp
@copper nacelle - when you have time, try pulling down the "mac-port" branch of the api from github and building that, we'll see what it does
copper nacelle
alright, I'll probably do it in an hourish
buoyant wasp
no worries, whenever. won't be able to do much with any response (positive or negative) for a few hours anyway
stiff notch
i tabbed the hell out of my softlock. nothing worked.
if you want me to report bugs about boss rush mod.... meh not that hard to find any (no offense), you're good.
fair rampart
Guys is boss rush supposed to end after you fight radiance/hollow knight or no?
cuz i wanna do them before hte other guys but i dont want to redo the entire thing to get to the other guys
vestal hawk
radience is locked for me, I assume until I beat all the other bosses
sounds like HK is meant to be just like the other fights, but I've been running into the softlock thing
hidden gull
@leaden hedge I might have asked you before, how long have you been using unity/C# ?
leaden hedge
unity probably 2/3 years, csharp something similar
hidden gull
Neat
ornate rivet
So I just came across this video that people seem to be so excited about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7b4J2INq9c
but I dont understand what's so good about Q#, it just seems stupidly more complicated
hidden gull
It's essentially a program whose virtual machine is a quantum computer
ornate rivet
wat does dat mean
young walrus
quantum computers 
hidden gull
So, when you run something like Java, it runs a self-contained environment where you can do Java-ey things
Quantum computing is nifty because it is a theoretical new physical format for computing besides our traditional binary electronic computing. If we can make computers with different physical properties then it changes the way we solve problems from the ground up
leaden hedge
well it is quantum physics
hidden gull
it's actually becoming pretty important in places like medical science too
leaden hedge
quantum computers want to use superposition and quantum entanglement to solve certain computing problems
ornate rivet
ok thanks for informing me
buoyant wasp
In its most basic form, traditional computers struggle with the traveling salesman problem
say you take a person, and tell them they need to go to 100 points on the map, and tell them they need to do so in the most efficient way possible
as you put more points on the map, the cost of that calculation grows exponentially.
it's what is called "NP-Hard"
with quauntum computing, instead of it having to figure out every possible combination to find the most efficient route, it basically can try all the combinations at once (sorta). unlike a computer where you will only get 1 answer, in quantum computing you get an estimated answer that is somewhere between 0 and 1. how much uncertainty is in the result is largely based on your needs
realistically speaking there are alot of applications where this kind of thing is highly desired. as HK pointed out, the medical industry can use it (to help handle things like protein folding for example to develop new drugs). It can be used to, theoretically, break encryption much faster than traditional machines
what you're not likely to see anytime in the near future is quantum computing used for your day to day activities. maybe, someday, but not anytime soon as there really isn't a benefit
hazy sentinel
HK
buoyant wasp
Q# is either going to be MS being way ahead of the game and the ground-breakers for getting QC into the real world and out of labs, or it's going to crash and burn. Really depends on how fast they can scale the q-bits up to something useful
needless to say, wrapping your head about how very different QC is from traditional binary systems is going to be a tough nut to crack for alot of folks
hidden gull
Yup
ornate rivet
I understood about 1% of what you said
young walrus
isn't it like... instead of just 0 and 1 type of computing.... it's a huge leap to using any partial output between 0 and 1
hidden gull
Yup, you get the mathey part
young walrus
so....your possible computing power becomes astronomically huge compared to what we have
buoyant wasp
if we can ever scale up the CPUs, yes
hidden gull
There are also possible connections between ideas in quantum computing and the way that our brains function: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-12-physicists-negate-century-old-assumption-neurons.html
buoyant wasp
and deal with the fact that all of our programs and logic always assume only 2 possible outcomes ๐
hidden gull
It was previously believed that neurons could not distinguish between sources of impulse, but it turns out they can
young walrus
so.... if you think our computers now are pretty great... just wait til we have QCs
buoyant wasp
well, consider this. right now, the most powerful QC in the world has like....30 q-bits?. (basically think of it as having 30 transistors) we're basically in the 60's version of QC right now
IE, decades from anything close to that same level
but yes, they will certainly change the world
ornate rivet
so bit wars all over again?
hidden gull
640 qK of RAM ought to be enough for anyone
fair rampart
if we actually had quantum computers right now most encryptions would be obselete
hidden gull
well not necessarily
buoyant wasp
the biggest problem right now is not how to make them, it's how to make them big, stable, and easily
hidden gull
it's true that many prime number algorithms would get faster, that wouldn't stop us from going to waaaay higher primes
buoyant wasp
it will let you simulate 32 (with 32 GB of free memory)
hidden gull
in fact, with reliable quantum computing we may well double the number of known primes
ornate rivet
ok
buoyant wasp
eventually it will let you use Azure to do 40 i think
if the last article i read on the topic was right, we need to hit about 4000 q-bits before we can do meaningful work effectively
40 is enough to model interactions with hydrogen and maybe a few other basic elements
hidden gull
out of curiosity, what's your primary source? Just wikipedia + education?
buoyant wasp
wikipedia, ars, white papers (though admittedly, even i struggle to understand half of it)
the math is so far over my head
ornate rivet
so is a computer with 16 gb ram useless when using q#
hidden gull
It's not my realm either lol. I do almost exclusively combinatorics
buoyant wasp
well you're SIMULATING quantum bits
hidden gull
^^
buoyant wasp
you aren't making a quantum computer
just making it behave like one using classical computing. it's mostly so you can learn how the logic works and test basic stuff, it's not magically making your classical hardward quantum
the point, right now, is to get folks to play with the concepts and see what comes out of it
ornate rivet
ok
hidden gull
inb4 befunge is the language of the future
buoyant wasp
if you want, here's a rather lengthy article about QC: https://arstechnica.com/science/2010/01/a-tale-of-two-qubits-how-quantum-computers-work/
and something more recent which was about Q# https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/09/microsoft-quantum-toolkit/ and QC in general
buoyant wasp
yup
keen mesa
So, I can use a mod to give my profile a city crest even though i already used one right? Just to have that extra item in my key items?
copper nacelle
yes
keen mesa
Awesome ty, trying to do a 'perfect' playthrough, and decided to use the crest for convenience's sake but not having it in my menu is distressing.
keen mesa
I already used it
BUt reloading a save since I opened a shortcut I don't want to. Idk, how I'm making this file is a bit annoying already
Opened some shortcuts, left others for a sense of 'purity', but it's not entirely possible or practical to do.
So a little at odds with what I do / do not want,
Like I left the Geo mounds, left Geo chests alone.
keen mesa
Just double checking, I can use the crest, then just add another in later yeah?
stiff notch
just found a main game bug in boss rush mod
when collector bends over to be finished
after weaversong damaged it, weaversong was the only thing that could keep damaging it.
i'm hoping they actually finish him, been at it for 5 minutes now
i had the same problem with grimmchild in another run
i now also have grimmchild and womb, but they do not damage him too.
dreamnail still works, though.
report to devs?
fair rampart
same thing happened to me
but with dreamshield
and the damage didnt actually hurt him
it just shows the damage indicator
stiff notch
grimmchild managed to kill the collector though. but i'm having no luck with weaversong now......
stiff notch
but most of all
boss rush mode made me realise how useless so many charms are in boss battles, how much i miss cloak and wings in late game bosses, and how awful of an idea it is to just give random items each time. and how horrible balancing it is to give a second item for taking no damage (very noob unfriendly, and boring for pros), and not having an option to restart a boss or run after taking damage... without having to skip all the cutscenes again gah.
YES IM SALTY
and boss rush needs work whaaah ๐ข
knotty grove
so work on it, isn't the code public on github
stiff notch
would if i could.
leaden hedge
if you don't give random items, you just get flukenest by 2nd boss ๐ค
that'd definitely make it harder ๐ค
stiff notch
you could only unlock flukenest by third wave of bosses. or not at all.
or allow flukenest for speedrunning purposes, but casuals can choose not to take it
fair rampart
random items
stiff notch
i would just like to experiment a bit, not keep on crushing bosses over and over with flukenest
fair rampart
more like get nail upgrades 3 times in a row
stiff notch
@leaden hedge @leaden hedge suggestions: make 3 arrays in the code. 1 with offensive upgrades, 1 with defensive and healing upgrades, 1 with utility and movement upgrades. arrange the lists from 'early game/weak' to 'late game/strong'. Don't include useless charms like compass, greed,... After each boss, present the players with an upgrade from each of the 3 lists to choose 1 from. Make it so that there's for instance 40% chance to get the first on the list, 30% for second, 20% for third, and 5% and 5% for fourth and fifth. After the player has chosen, remove that item from the list, so further options will become accessible. That way the power curve will be smoothed out significantly and remove a LOT of bad rng from the item system. you could place flukenest near the bottom of utility or offense list. Offense will not always be the best choice, as you can fill that list with crap like weaversong or grimmchilds. You could still place penalties on choosing 'offense' too much, like replacing an offense option by another defense one.
More: I should check how many upgrades of each 'category' there are, but maybe you could make 4 lists: offense, defense/healing, utility/movement and spells. And make it so that you do not receive an option of the list you already picked the most of. And in case of ties: util > def > off > spell. From there on out, you can begin balancing, tweaking lists and percentages...
@leaden hedge Remember that you want the mod to be interesting for a broader public, like right now I think it is too hard, but others who are trained on the bosses might think it is too easy. Take away the 'double items on perfecting a boss', which is a punishing 'win more' mechanic, and instead maybe make difficulty settings, like easy = vanilla, medium = deal x% less damage, hard = deal x% less damage and enemies deal double damage.
1 more interesting suggestion: make it so that you do not full heal when transitioning from one boss to another. to make sure that lifeblood charms aren't near useless then, when choosing an upgrade, make it possible to 'rest at bench (and skip upgrade)' to heal for next boss. So it could become a late game decision to take joni's blessing as a last upgrade, then for the last couple of bosses only use the bench to refill the lifeblood hearts.
I think there is a lot of potential in this, and it seems it would be far from impossible to program. If I knew the language, i'd do it myself. please consider ๐
leaden hedge
offensive would still always be the best choice, even if you put weaversong in there
as you'd want to get rid of it for future drops
stiff notch
that can be balanced out. like i said, make it so that an option will not be presented if you picked it too much already
and you shouldn't focus on the fear of making it 'too easy'. lots of people still struggle with late game bosses with a late game build. if you want to give pros a challenge, do it with difficulty settings (difficulty settings could also affect presented items for instance), but do not punish us casual players
fair rampart
easy setting makes your three choices all either nail upgrades health upgrades or spell upgrades
stiff notch
@leaden hedge no offense, and i do not want to come over as spoiled, but I believe my suggestions -although in need of balancing and not perfect- would be a huge improvement over the current RNG-fest 'no-hit or suffer' implementation
leaden hedge
I guess you'll hate what the timer is in there for
beat my time or you don't even get the basic 1 item
stiff notch
you're a speedrunner and I get that.
99% of hollow knight players are not
this implementation would be discrimination
allow casual players to enjoy a neat, enjoyable boss rush mode
fair rampart
oh
stiff notch
KDT
...
that's actually really toxic
OR you get flukenest shade soul and wreck the game
OR you do not and SUFFER FOREVER
and if you get it or not is SUPER RANDOM
leaden hedge
or I do it with a variety of builds and damage
leaden hedge
and setup the time to be based off my time with similar items ๐ค
fair rampart
he becomes invulnerable
stiff notch
can you get off your elitist throne?
fair rampart
and I cant hurt him
stiff notch
GAH sorry. i shouldn't patronize you.
leaden hedge
do you pay me
did you make it?
how about you complain about glass soul being too hard for casuals
stiff notch
i'll give you 20โฌ if you implement it like i said
and it'll be a way bigger success.
guaranteed.
@leaden hedge
leaden hedge
maybe, let me think about if it can actually be implemented
stiff notch
let me know if you want to discuss further.
stiff notch
@fair rampart I encountered the intargetable collector bug before, playing vanilla. I think the bug is not from the mod, but in the actual game. I filed a bug report.
leaden hedge
it is from the base game
fair rampart
ahh
leaden hedge
its fixed in beta
fair rampart
understandable then
stiff notch
but not being able to absorb hollow knight, or end the fight somehow, IS a boss rush bug.
... the one time i actually got there lol
leaden hedge
actually thats not a boss rush bug
thats a feature
the bug is the ui doesn't show up
because they disable all ui at that point
stiff notch
oh. so triggering the ui isn't the problem then?
leaden hedge
hollow knight will actually now give items
vestal hawk
oh, cool. And I had just gotten the quick map button to skip after beating him. This is better though, thanks 
I think it should be said that I appreciate the free work you modders put in to give us more ways to play the game. It's given me a lot of post game fun
buoyant wasp
coming in late here, but offense is always the best choice, period
defense/health/utility is garbage 100% of the time
movement is always 2nd best
(only exception being needing wings or claw+dash)
also, and i can't stress this enough, calling someone an elitist a guaranteed way to make sure that all your future opinions are ignored. it's disrespectful and ungrateful and at least for me, literally makes me never want to help you again.
daring snow
Yeah, just reading through that as an outsider was pretty painful. That was extremely disrespectful.
young walrus
Also.... these are mods. the general public won't ever install a game mod, so targeting the average, casual player for scaling and difficulty doesn't really make sense.
Are all the current mods perfect? no. Can they be improved? Absolutely. But approaching the creators with "This mod needs A LOT of work. Here's the changes you need to make. Do it now, I'll pay you." is NOT the way to ask for that. (paraphrasing obviously, maybe a bit unfairly, but that's the impression I got from that conversation)
daring snow
lol yeah bribery is not the correct approach
sick arch
the people working on the mods that are already doing it for free and in their free time will totally give into bribery 
buoyant obsidian
I mean you could totally bribe me if you want
sick arch
i want flukenest to deal double dmg in this mod here, ยฃ2 take it or leave it
buoyant wasp
yeah....money isn't going to work at any realistic level for me, it's not that I'm rich, far from it, but if i want to get paid to code, I'll just add some extra hours at work and make the money there. As soon as you're paid for something then (at least for me) it stops being purely a hobby and starts being a job.
copper nacelle
getting paid makes everything not fun because obligations make things boring and deadlines make things shit
vestal hawk
what if instead of getting paid before hand, someone donated to you after everything was said and done? Would it be the same?
copper nacelle
no
donations are optional
no requirements, no time limits, just good stuff
@buoyant wasp sorry about not getting around to the mac api, doing it rn (just built it)
hollow pier
i think the best work is done freely
copper nacelle
see: all open source software
also because I'm lazy: https://send.firefox.com/download/b30f4e717a/#Fl8DPGsMnGpz4ueth2af9A
@buoyant wasp the file not found error stuff is gone
@buoyant wasp [INFO]:[API] - Adding GitHub SSL Cert to Allow for Checking of Mod Versions
[INFO]:CN=*.github.com, O="GitHub, Inc.", L=San Francisco, S=California, C=US
[INFO]:GameLoading
[INFO]:[API] - Trying to load mods
[WARN]:Operating system of Mac OS X 10.11.6 is not known. Unable to load mods.
rain cedar
Well I don't see where the API checks OS, but I do see a problem here: https://github.com/seanpr96/HollowKnight.Modding/blob/master/Assembly-CSharp/ModLoader.cs#L30
You said that the file structure is different for macs, right?
Oh wait nevermind there's a mac-port branch
copper nacelle
yeah
copper nacelle
all I could find Platform wise is AnyCPU
copper nacelle
I'll try changing that and recompiling
shouldn't the OS thing be contain Mac or Linux?
@rain cedar does this look right
else if ((SystemInfo.operatingSystem.Contains("Mac")) || (SystemInfo.operatingSystem.Contains("Linux")))
Nah you've got your parentheses wrong
Just put Mac for now, I don't think the game even runs on Linux
copper nacelle
alright
the usual because I'm lazy: https://send.firefox.com/download/ad7c77ec6e/#jZTwtdfFoaT1v8RCWF0S9A
rain cedar
You know it only takes like 30 seconds to just make your own server to send files in
thorn comet
Everyone has their own private server for testing stuff and all that right?
Most people on Discord a lot would I imagined
copper nacelle
error is gone
Mods still aren't loading tho
ModLog:
[INFO]:[API] - Adding GitHub SSL Cert to Allow for Checking of Mod Versions
[INFO]:CN=*.github.com, O="GitHub, Inc.", L=San Francisco, S=California, C=US
[INFO]:GameLoading
[INFO]:[API] - Trying to load mods
rain cedar
Are you certain that /Managed/Mods is the right path for mac?
copper nacelle
checking rn
added Logger.LogWarn(Application.dataPath) to the else if
to see if it's right
made the else if
else if (SystemInfo.operatingSystem.Contains("Mac"))
Logger.LogWarn(Application.dataPath);
path = Application.dataPath + "/Managed/Mods/";
but it gives the "} expected error"
oh nvm
rain cedar
C# isn't structured by tabs
copper nacelle
else if (SystemInfo.operatingSystem.Contains("Mac"))
{
Logger.LogWarn(Application.dataPath);
path = Application.dataPath + "/Managed/Mods/";
}
is this good
copper nacelle
alright
rain cedar
And for future reference:
```csharp
else if (SystemInfo.operatingSystem.Contains("Mac"))
{
Logger.LogWarn(Application.dataPath);
path = Application.dataPath + "/Managed/Mods/";
}
```
That makes it look like this:
else if (SystemInfo.operatingSystem.Contains("Mac"))
{
Logger.LogWarn(Application.dataPath);
path = Application.dataPath + "/Managed/Mods/";
}
Yeah, I didn't change it at all, I'm just showing how to format it nicely within discord
copper nacelle
ohh
whoops
I usually do that
@rain cedar the directory is wrong
symlink time
rain cedar
Don't do that, just fix the path in the code
copper nacelle
I'll fix it
I just wanna test what happens with it fixed
OH BOY
it works
hellmod ran and gave double damage like it should
I'll test it on Linux after I fix the mac path
should I submit a merge request?
rain cedar
Sure, if you've put in the fixed path already
buoyant wasp
Check and make sure that in the save directory moddingapi settings file was created too
rain cedar
It doesn't matter at all what you do with line breaks
Github standardizes them, anyway
buoyant wasp
cool. So, just need to zip it up and stick it on the gdrive then. I can't do it this weekend though, traveling for the holidays so in the car all day today/sunday ๐ if @rain cedar can do it, it'd be great. if the paths for the mods folder is different, we should note that somewhere so that if folks go to install mods the "usual" way with drag/drop, they know they have to slightly change the path for those mods to fight the Data folder location
copper nacelle
I've got a copy of the compiled API:
for mac
the path is a little different
it's $HOME/Library/Application Support/Steam/steamapps/common/Hollow Knight/hollow_knight.app/Contents/Resources/Data/Managed/Mods
buoyant wasp
that's not verbose at all ๐
copper nacelle
lol
so basically browse local files --> hollow_knight.app (right click --> Show contents) /Contents/Resources/Data/Managed/Mods
weirdly long but ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
copper nacelle
yeah
buoyant wasp
and the changes I made to the fork can be rolled into master so we don't have to maintain 2 versions to boot
so, huzzah to that
copper nacelle
nice
buoyant wasp
still amazed it works
buoyant wasp
someone should tag the guy who wanted it. can't remember their name
copper nacelle
can't auto tag because they're offline but I sent a DM
buoyant wasp
cool
leaden hedge
it does
buoyant wasp
afaik, yes
copper nacelle
maybe I'm just mistyping it
buoyant wasp
@serene spindle
copper nacelle
@serene spindle Mac API is here
lol, didn't see your message
Was scrolling up so I could just hit Mention
copper nacelle
just get the file and put it in Mods
and backup any game files you end up overwriting
also backup saves
stiff notch
@buoyant wasp @leaden hedge My sincerest apologies to you, especially KDT. Looking back, my remarks were indead not acceptable and sounded way more harsh than I ever meant. I was just getting mildly frustrated that my point of view never really got through (and because i just died a lot on the collector). So this is probably the last I will say about this: yes I acknowledge that offense will always be the better option for the trained player. But a system with categories and difficulty settings seemed imo a more healthy approach for balancing than randomness and time limits, as you would be more able to control how much power you would grant the player in a playthrough. Again, sorry. Sorry.
sick arch
did you read the read me.md file in modding api @fair rampart
you paste modding api into C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Hollow Knight\ not local files
copper nacelle
@fair rampart ^, in addition make sure you're using the API version that corresponds to your HK version number
lusty lantern
still has no idea how to put api into hollow knight still
lusty lantern
Why did I say still twice...
serene spindle
Yeah'
copper nacelle
nice
serene spindle
How do I back up my files before I implement the mod?
copper nacelle
you'll be replacing one file, so just right click it and duplicate it beforehand
that one file is Assembly-CSharp.dll
if you browse local files or whatever from steam, right click the HK app and go to Contensts-->Resources-->Data-->Managed
duplicate/make a copy of the file there
and then replace the original
serene spindle
k
copper nacelle
to get to saves
hit Command+Shift+G in finder
and type
~/Library/Application Support
serene spindle
I know how to do that
copper nacelle
alright
serene spindle
Can you send the file to me please?
serene spindle
thank you ๐
sick arch
@next mesa go to pinned messages and check the pinned messages
woops lol
drive message, go to that
copper nacelle
@serene spindle yes
next mesa
drive message?
sick arch
there should be a modding api file and a debug mod file
the google drive link i should say
in the pinned messages, mb
next mesa
seampr - debug mod?
sick arch
yup, thats the one
copper nacelle
@glossy pelican do you want the boss health bars at the bottom or like under the boss or
sick arch
download that with modding api
copper nacelle
because you can use debug mod to see health
although, it shows HP Bars for all enemies (if you turn it on)
sick arch
and follow the read me instructions on where to copy paste the files and it should work
glossy pelican
@copper nacelle i think at the top would be better
copper nacelle
I might give that a shot
copper nacelle
^
daring snow
obvious pirate is obvious
buoyant obsidian
what about Humble Bundle?
sick arch
pirating the game isnt a bad thing, the game is pretty cheap atm though during winter sale
fair rampart
i was joking
lol
Wasnt even sure if u actually pirated it
Btw
How did u pay for its price
if u cant buy it in your country>?
thorn comet
Hey, dont be rude
fair rampart
because its a digital game uhh
thorn comet
Hes just asking a question mate
thorn comet
Nah, its cause he said he was joking
thorn comet
They dont sell HK there, cause HK is digital only
fair rampart
the schrodinger's hk
serene spindle
@copper nacelle
copper nacelle
nice
serene spindle
Like I said, thanks a lot.
copper nacelle
yw @serene spindle
fair rampart
All the versions available
copper nacelle
@fair rampart you could try compiling it yourself with your assembly
it would probably work
a close version won't work
you need an exact match
thorn comet
Sorry I do forget; whats the easy way to switch back and forth between standard HK and Modded HK? Assembly.dll file swapping or something?
buoyant obsidian
Pretty much, unless you're using API
then you can just drag the mods into a folder to disable them
thorn comet
Having 2 versions is clever
I have a physical CD install version from the IndieBox; but unsure if its Steam-linked or DRM free
Sorry 753, what do you mean by drag them into a folder to disable? Elaborate a tiny bit more?
hazy sentinel
young walrus
The API looks in the mods folder and runs everything there, but won't look in a sub folder
thorn comet
Oh wow okay, seems simple. Gotcha
young walrus
i like having 2 versions though, myself. I use GOG for official runs
and keep the mods installed on my steam version
thorn comet
But Mickely, what about your 'Hours played' on Steam! 
young walrus
lol
thorn comet
But thats much easier yeah
dapper folio
Charm Notch Mod, last updated oct 26
Nightmare God Grimm, oct 31
Blackmoth, nov 10
Glass Soul, nov 14
Scale Mod, nov 17
More Saves, nov 17
Bonfire, nov 22
Lightbringer, dec 12
Debug, dec 3
Randomizer, dec 10
Player Data Tracker, dec 19
Modding API, dec 19
Empress Muzznik, dec 23
Dreamshield Co-Op, dec 23
ScaleMod, dec 23
Boss Rush, dec 23
Plz help. what needs updating and what have I missed?
dapper folio
thanks
rain cedar
What the heck is empress muzznik?
Oh, I see
It's never been talked about here
Just in #hk-discussion
Got that crap muted
buoyant obsidian
It's a bit of a meme
copper nacelle
@dapper folio hellmod exists
dapper folio
been busy
dapper folio
truly, a hellish mod
dapper folio
wtf
hollow pier
dunno the details
dapper folio
who came up with this, is there a link or readme?
buoyant obsidian
Hell Mod, also known as Ass Soul mode
hollow pier
56 made it i think
dapper folio
no readme
buoyant obsidian
That's part of the difficulty
thorn comet
@rain cedar Hey man; you probably know this already. But do you know why this happens sometimes? The debug menu only shows half of itself and you cant toggle it on or off anymore. Requires game restart to fix
copper nacelle
@dapper folio HellMod is by me it has a few fun effects:
- 1/2 nail damage
- 2x damage taken
- 1/3 max SOUL
- 1/2 soul collection
- no SOUL collection when your shade is alive
- Heal speed is Deep focus level by default
- Deep focus multiplies by 2.7225 instead of the normal 1.35
- Dream shield only costs 1 notch (bugged rn)
also thanks for adding it to the google drive
Here's a README, sorry for not having one earlier
and here's the zip with it added
hollow pier
dargons is dargone
copper nacelle
yes
rain cedar
@thorn comet Yeah that was reported a few days ago but I'm visiting family for the holidays so it might be a bit until I can look into fixing it
thorn comet
Thats fair man, no stress. Glad it was brought up earlier, good stuff. Enjoy the holidays
dapper folio
Can't sleep, checking in. Thanks for the readme and zip, @copper nacelle. I'll update the folder tomorrow. Lemme know if you want editing privileges.
wind cipher
Hello guys! What wrong with new boss rush mod? Why i can't use any magic only nail and after kill boss i can choose only 1 charm and don't get any magic or abilities, what wrong?
fair rampart
What do you mean?
It's always been like that
only way to get abilities is to choose them
If they appear
after you beat a boss
wind cipher
yes? Hmm sorry for my dumb becoz i watch on youtube it's differently
maybe older version okay thanks
leaden hedge
yes
fair rampart
heck
rain cedar
Not currently a feature, but you can set multiple dream gate warps which is more convenient anyway
fair rampart
ah ok
timber gale
Why is dreamshield only one notch in the hell mod? Memes or did something happen to it that I'm unaware of?
copper nacelle
@timber gale it's also bugged
I set the thing to 1 from 3
but it also doesn't care and becomes 3 after you get up from the bench
also what KDT said, it's really useless in hellmod so I wanted to make it slightly less useless
copper nacelle
HellMod is on github now: https://github.com/5FiftySix6/HellMod
copper nacelle
@rain cedar what license are your mods under
rain cedar
Haven't really given that much thought
I'm fine with you taking pieces for other projects or forking one to mod by yourself if that's why you're asking
buoyant wasp
i think we put the API under MIT
fair rampart
Guys i uh
have a bit of a problem
basically, i was doing boss rush mod when electricity went out because my brother stepped on a cable
When i restarted my pc and started hk the game was frozen completely and instead of "new game" there was a "start" button
so i verified integrity on steam and it got fixed
but when i went to re install the modding api the game was frozen again with the start button
shut current
Hi guys. Is there a no Shade or no Shade gives Geo mod? I find death not scary enough (but true hardcore to scary) so I would like a mod that disables the ability to get the Geo back after I die.
rain cedar
Just don't get your geo back
fair rampart
TAS mod when?
buoyant wasp
tas mod could be possible if we went through and modified all the RNG generators to be the same 100% of the time
shut current
Just don't get your geo back
Not an option, unless you want to continue playing with less than 100 % souls meter
vestal hawk
don't get hit and that won't be an issue
young walrus
So die again
vestal hawk
genius, why didn't I think of that
latent thorn
How do I know what each mod does?
royal ridge
Typically in the readme.txt
latent thorn
Thanks
latent thorn
Well I'm new here... How do you mod?
young walrus
watch the video in pinned messages
latent thorn
Wich one?
buoyant wasp
@copper nacelle - What version of the mac game did you use to build the API? Is it 1.2.2.1 too? (was thinking the mac/linux clients had a slightly offset version#)
buoyant wasp
k
copper nacelle
I'll double check
buoyant wasp
thanks. want to add a build configuration for mac so that I can easily build both in the same step, so was going to download it from the humble bundle tonight
copper nacelle
nice
woeful stratus
is there by any chance a mod that resets all bosses (to fight them again?) Or one to start a game with all abilities?
buoyant wasp
and merge your pull request and all that
debug mod lets you reset boss fights
not all at once
but you can toggle them
individually
woeful stratus
sounds good, thanks
buoyant wasp
it also lets you toggle abilities, charms, etc
buoyant wasp
basically ๐
young walrus
infinite hp, money, soul, bosses, dream gates, etc etc etc
woeful stratus
I was just at a loss at what to do. I wanna play hollow knight, but having beaten the game completely it kinda loses its charm
copper nacelle
@buoyant wasp it says 1.2.2.1 in the bottom-right, the mod api says 1.2.2.1-26 in the top left
@woeful stratus do randomizer mod
or HellMod
or Steel Soul
young walrus
speedrun it, do rando's, do bonfire mod
copper nacelle
or Lightbringer
buoyant wasp
or boss rush
woeful stratus
i tried steel soul but i dont like starting without abilities
Thats why i asked :D
thorn comet
did mickely just type 'speed run' instead of 'speedrun'?
copper nacelle
probably mobile
young walrus
i don't know what you're talking about
woeful stratus
uhm, how do i toggle the UI xD. Doesnt say in readme
young walrus
F1
woeful stratus
i messed up then, doesnt work lmao.
young walrus
the UI should be up by default
you probably didn't install the modding API
the title screen should show all the mods you have installed
woeful stratus
oh yeah, i forgot.
young walrus
in the top left
sick cliff
Hello to any rando runners out there...I'm using the randomizer helper and it's telling me to go get sharp shadow, but all I have is the shade cloak, the dive, and the tear. I have gotten to right before the long drop to the hot spring in deepnest but I can't seem to close in on it without claw...anyone know the way?
sick cliff
Yeah, I can't get to the spring though
Right before the long drop there is a super high platform
Also I'm on easy mode fwiw
rain cedar
There is an alternate path that I think should work without claw
sick cliff
On that screen?
rain cedar
No
You can use tear to get into fog canyon, then again to get into fungal wastes
Actually wait you can't get to mantis lords without claw or double jump
So nah that won't work either
sick cliff
Yeah and the drop down from queens needs claw as well afaik
rain cedar
No not through queen's, through the acid near leg eater
Oh well there's better places for you to check than sharp shadow, anyway
vestal hawk
and to get to the moss chapel place you need double jump
rain cedar
Go check leg eater
sick cliff
I can get into Fog's from Greenpath and from Queen's Station already
That's how I got into Queen's in the first place
Are you telling me to see what he has for sale? Because that's done
rain cedar
Is sharp shadow the only thing it's saying you have left to check?
sick cliff
According to the helper, yes
I rechecked all 4 of the shops, Got Baldur Shell, all the stuff in Greenpath other than Shape of Unn
rain cedar
Ah yeah, try dying at the spot you can't get past and see if you can pogo on your shade to get up
I'll add fixing this to my mental list
sick cliff
The helper says you still need wings to get that high, but I can certainly check out some other skips (Resting Grounds) or just start a new run.
Thanks for the quick response btw, great job on this randomizer it's super fun to play around with
lusty barn
@buoyant obsidian you are a god. You got me back into hollow knight with lightbringer. hats off to you
buoyant obsidian
Good to hear!
rain cedar
Creating mods isn't really a one and done kinda thing so it's hard to answer questions like that
You're not gonna get it perfect immediately so there's ongoing development
lusty barn
yeah, i noticed lightbringer has lots of versions
buoyant obsidian
Lightbringer was the result of hundreds of hours of work over several months
Most of that time was spent simply fooling around with what's possible through modding and fixing bugs
Then there was about 30 hours worth of pure testing and many more watching other people play it to see what worked and what didn't
kindred palm
Someone playing boss rush mod, and he did not have walljump or double jump so he cannot get to the last phase of Radiance
Poor man
fair rampart
rip
kindred palm
Seems that he has Kingsoul and he's trying to get up with the damage knockback and the black void below to elevate
Poor man
Finally
fair rampart
Noice
sharp garnet
it took me like a year waiting and healing
then tanking damage for some extra height to reach the platform
btw seems like the laser of radiance is random rather than target based
dry forge
What is hollow knight made with?
fair rampart
Unity
dry forge
woa I didn't know unity had 2d potential
Me and some mates are looking into creating our own first game, me being lead for art and recently having found hollow knight, I've been extremely inspired by it
fair rampart
yea 'tis an awesome game
dry forge
oh
cool
Its nice to watch videos on hollow knights art etc
Its just so stunning to me
lusty barn
Do you think team cherry has ever thought of making a co op hk game mode? Like being able to nail bounce off of your teamates nail, bosses would have double health.
just an interesting idea.
young walrus
HK is not a game for multiplayer
young walrus
wouldn't be a good fit. it'd just be weird
young walrus
like trying to make Metroid a multiplayer game.
TC has never mentioned multiplayer once
buoyant obsidian
You could always play the Dreamshield Co-Op mod
young walrus
so i doubt it was ever discussed
lusty barn
dreamshield is hard with no friends
young walrus
or if it was, it was super early in development
lusty barn
yeah
fair rampart
Yes TC thought of it
u can look up the old alpha/beta vids
they talked about having a co op
buoyant wasp
@copper nacelle - When you have a chance can you check to make sure this copy of the Mac API works? It should show up as v-27. Just want to make sure the post-build procedures works as I'm expecting now. (otherwise it is the same as the version you compiled).
copper nacelle
Sure, I'll check in a bit
copper nacelle
@buoyant wasp checking the dll right now, but the .zip has the mods folder as a document
buoyant wasp
i really need to change how the zip is generated
for some reason using powershell turns folders into files when the folder is empty
-_-
copper nacelle
lol
another note:
everything has "hollow_knight.app\Contents\Resources\Data\Managed"
before the actual file name
so like Assembly-CSharp
is
(it's not inside the folder, it's titled the folder name + Assemnbly-CSharp.dll)
copper nacelle
@buoyant wasp dll works after being renamed ๐
buoyant wasp
i'm gonna change how it generates the zip and we'll see if that fixes it. though won't be until later probably
thanks for testing ๐
copper nacelle
yw
solemn rivet
hey everyone! Sup?
fair rampart
sup
solemn rivet
how's holidays for everyone?
solemn rivet
yeah, but I was about to ask about how much progress have we made
in modding and stuff
like, how's the API?
rolling back I can see that there's been a API for mac? That's good!
fair rampart
Ya
solemn rivet
I haven't been around in a while... How's KDT's boss rush mod?
pearl sentinel
Hello. I'd like to thank the author of the mod api and the rando author for making your code accessible open source :)
Currently using the rando source as a base to try an implementation of enemy randomizing.
I'm generating a table of enemy types by loading a set of selected scenes that contain them. Other than requiring a bit of initial load time, is there any gotchas with this you guys see?
solemn rivet
eh
does this cover dinamically-spawned enemies?
like hatchlings from an aspid's corpse and such
just imagine killing an aspid for it to spawn 3 radiances
also, if you want to see if/how something breaks, just ask verulean
pearl sentinel
Lol. We'll I'm going to be swapping things that aren't bosses first
Bosses later.
solemn rivet
either way, I don't think those kinds of enemies are loaded onSceneLoad
hence why you have to refresh the HP bars in the debug mod sometimes
pearl sentinel
If this works out though, I want to then randomize (with logic) scene transitions and make the game kinda like a rogue legacy layout
I can add some logic in to make platforms and such if it puts you in a scene you might be softlocked in without a skill normally if you don't yet have it
solemn rivet
People were working on mapping out skill requirements for each exit
But I don't know how far they have gone with that idea
young walrus
A load zone randomizer is on the list. But other things have been more important
buoyant wasp
and the holidays have slowed stuff down. honestly very little has happened in the last few weeks other than the Mac version and that was mostly just 56 poking it with a stick for a while. (it amounted to like 10 lines of code changes)
young walrus
Things will probably pick up again in February
buoyant wasp
probably. I have a big lan event I prep for in January, plus end of year work stuff and holidays means less spare brain power for coding ๐
i know agdq is taking some folks time too
young walrus
Who all is going besides me? I heard devil will be there. Anyone else?
solemn rivet
I wish I could. But real life won't let me
buoyant wasp
sadly not me :(. Hopefully I can renegotiate my vacation time this year for work and actually go this summer or next year.
solemn rivet
I won't go, but if I can I'll be watching it live
buoyant wasp
oh, i'm definitely going to be watching it, especially mickely's run
solemn rivet
Which day is it again? I'll be offline a few days and don't wanna miss it
deep pilot
solemn rivet
Great! I'll be home by then!
copper nacelle
I would go but the registration deadline passed
rain cedar
@pearl sentinel Take a look at the debug mod source as well. I've got code there for getting all the enemies in a scene so that could help with an enemy randomizer
pearl sentinel
will do! thanks for the suggestion
vagrant leaf
how do i install some mods
also do mods alter your current save files?
i wanna start modding
glossy pelican
lol, backdash is still a thing in save file
buoyant obsidian
Some mods (Lightbringer, Glass Soul) are not reversible.
Some mods don't even change your saves.
If you back up your saves before loading up any mods, everything is fine.
thorn comet
Locate it in your drive, then make a copy of it somewhere
thorn comet
Yeah; just make a copy somewhere. So when you wanna go back to normal save, you can put the copied one back into the save folder
vagrant leaf
and that one won't have your mdos?
mods
wait
so you can have one save file with lightbringer or glass soul or something, and another with the vanilla game?
solemn rivet
yup
vagrant leaf
hmm
that's cool
i thought that mods would just permanently alter your entire game
glossy pelican
is backdash works?
solemn rivet
nope, that's not what I'm saying
what I'm saying is that what the mod saves on your save file can be, or not, reversible
Bonfire Mod has plenty irreversible changes
vagrant leaf
so some mods are permanent for save files, but if you back up your current ones, they won't change?
solemn rivet
basically, what verulean said
save files are basically a lot of numbers (mostly) whic record your nail damage etc.
so if a mod changes that, the game makes no effort to change it back
so that would be an "irreversible change"
vagrant leaf
but if you back a file up beforehand, it won't change, even when you put it back in?
solemn rivet
precisely, that's what saves do
imagine you have a list of numbers. If you backup that list, then change it, the backed-up is still unchanged
that's basically what's happening
vagrant leaf
even if you install mods while the save file is backed up?
solemn rivet
yeah
hazy sentinel
no HK looks for any instance of that list of numbers on your whole computer and changes all of them
solemn rivet
it's not really that impressive tho
hazy sentinel
it only looks for files like userX.dat
so if you just rename a save to blahhhh.dat
it won't get changed
vagrant leaf
oh that makes sense
solemn rivet
yup
vagrant leaf
ok
i think i understand
but will you even have the option to start a new save file without mods once a mod is installed
solemn rivet
so, here's what you do: before installing the mod, backup your saves. Then install the mod and play to your heart's content. Then, after you're done reverting back to vanilla, just delete the saves created by the mod and replace them with the ones you backed-up earlier.
vagrant leaf
oh ok
solemn rivet
No, Banana, you would need to uninstall the mod
vagrant leaf
that makes alot more sense
solemn rivet
iirc, rando allows you to choose whether to play vanilla or modded
but most mods don't
vagrant leaf
How do I uninstall a mod?
buoyant obsidian
Verify your game files on Steam
vagrant leaf
okay thanks
ornate rivet
how do you find the game save files again?
vagrant leaf
User > AppData > LocalLow > Team Cherry > Hollow Knight
buoyant wasp
(for windows, anyway)
@copper nacelle - I know you posted the path for the game files in Mac, what's the path for the saves? wanna pin those
opal cosmos
you can't unintstall a moderator, silly
fair rampart
So I'm trying to figure out dnSpy. I've managed to open the assembly dll file, get into the PlayerData section, and I've modified the charm-notch cost of some of the charms, but I can't get it to compile the .dll now that I made those changes. Wat do?
buoyant obsidian
For me I can't compile unless the Assembly-CSharp.dll file is in its original location
try that if you aren't already
fair rampart
Okay. That did the trick so far. Thank you much!
fair rampart
I'm realizing now that I'm in the SetupNewPlayerData section altering charm costs--is this going to work for an already started game?
solemn rivet
also, for all intents and purposes, if possible avoid changing stuff directly inside the SetupNewPlayerData method
I'm not sure... Possibly
but try adding csharp this.playerData.charmNotchCost = whatever to HeroController.CharmUpdate()
that should do it
fair rampart
ahhh, that's way better thanks
solemn rivet
charmUpdate is always called when sitting in a bench
better to wrap it in an if clause too
buoyant obsidian
this.playerData.charmCost_21 = 1;
I just paste stuff like that into CharmUpdate() in the HeroController class
and it works
solemn rivet
I meant that as a "placeholder" for whatever you're using ๐
fair rampart
ooooh, derp
solemn rivet
my bad
if for some reason you need that to run every fram, put it in HeroController.Update() (again, in this case the if clause is almost mandatory)
buoyant obsidian
nah it won't have to run every frame
solemn rivet
yeah
but maybe they decide to change something else later on
like, nail Damage wink wink
fair rampart
I just want more notches, ultimately.
solemn rivet
just make everything cost 0
fair rampart
I beat the game, and now I want to NG+ it, as it were.
hazy sentinel
flukenest shaman AND fury fragile strength
fair rampart
That's the plan. I'm adding it to CharmUpdate now.
solemn rivet
just all charms
solemn rivet
from nerf plz
fair rampart
OP RUN HERE I COME!!!
Honestly, I might just tweak it now that I know how. Re-balance things. But for now, yeah I'm gonna go blast some shit. Thanks again for the info!
winter snow
Is there a way to remove the User Interface?
fair rampart
I think that's what this mod does http://www.moddb.com/mods/hollow-knight-noui-mod
winter snow
@fair rampart Sadly that mod isn't available anymore. And I would also like to get something that works with the latest updates too. Thanks though. Getting rid of the UI by changing something in the game's files would be best.
solemn rivet
you can use dnSpy to search for every instance of the OnGUI method in the assembly and disable it
buoyant wasp
honestly, it might be better to use the modding API to accomplish the task ๐
solemn rivet
oh? How so?
buoyant wasp
dunno, but if at all possible, that's where I'd be doing this stuff
solemn rivet
hm...
solemn rivet
but the way I can see this working is by putting some absurd condition for every GUI to show
hm...
copper nacelle
@buoyant wasp ~/Library/Application Support/unity.Team Cherry.Hollow Knight/
with ~ being the Linux/macOS symbol for $HOME ( /Users/username/)
copper nacelle
linux is my life
windows is for games/Office, linux is for everything else
and macOS is there because I got bored
buoyant wasp
I work in Linux, Unix, Windows, Informix (DB), MSSQL, Apache, Jboss, Glassfish, IIS, etc. So I have a pretty broad skillset. thank god I don't have to deal with Oracle
copper nacelle
oracle causes pain
buoyant wasp
I've dealt with alot of DBAs over the years, not one of them has ever said, "man, I just love oracle"
copper nacelle
lol
buoyant wasp
so i don't have to go searching through the history, what's the game's path in mac? (sorry, i'm lazy)
copper nacelle
~/Library/Application Support/unity.Team Cherry.Hollow Knight/
buoyant wasp
thanks
Windows File Paths: (Assumes Default Steam Install Path, Adjust accordingly for DRM Free or Non-Standard Steam Path)
Save Files: %APPDATA%\..\LocalLow\Team Cherry\Hollow Knight\
Game Files: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Hollow Knight\
Mac File Paths
Save Files: ~/Library/Application Support/unity.Team Cherry.Hollow Knight/
Game Files: ~/Library/Application Support/Steam/steamapps/common/Hollow Knight/hollow_knight.app/
hmm
copy paste fail
both the save path and the game path are the same in mac?
copper nacelle
?
buoyant wasp
nvm, went and found it
buoyant wasp
i edited the post, it right now?
buoyant wasp
cool. yeah, i know the nesting is different
copper nacelle
cool
buoyant wasp
gonna fix the zip file today so that it has the same structure for the mac builds
so that folks don't have to figure it out
copper nacelle
nice
buoyant wasp
@copper nacelle - does this zip file look right now?
copper nacelle
yea
copper nacelle
yw
buoyant wasp
i've uploaded it to the drive now
copper nacelle
nice
buoyant wasp
and the mac branch is now merged, zip file creation is not broken anymore, and 1.2.2.1-27 released. ๐
buoyant wasp
wanted to have it done, since I have a sneaking suspicion that after the holidays are over, the beta release they posted a few weeks back will come out
no inside knowledge, just a guess
lusty lantern
Huh
warped sinew
I doubt there will be a real release for a while
ornate rivet
will there be a teaser soon for the next Content Pack @warped sinew
sweet flower
I hope we get something, Its one of the longest weve waited for another blog post lol
but that just makes me more excited ๐
ornate rivet
The trailers are always so much hype
I love how the art style of the boss always oozes out. With Grimm Troupe, the trailer was bleeding red while with Hidden Dreams everything had a purplish tone
warped sinew
I think switch is coming first then cp3
ornate rivet
I'll take the silence as either a "no"
iron void
he's offline atm
ornate rivet
ye, but he was online when I typed that
thorn comet
There was a teaser for CP01 yeah
and there was also one for CP02
extrapolate that data, make a conclusion?
sick arch
probably wont be one for cp03
ornate rivet
No, I was asking if we would get a teaser in the next blog post
sick arch
ornate rivet
Obviously there will be a teaser for cp3
thorn comet
Oh were you? Ah my bad, dont sense that above sorry
sick arch
they usually upload a video of the teaser first onto youtube
i think? or it's posted onto steam or something first
sick arch
oh, i'd imagine switch post comes first though
ornate rivet
yea but that doesn't mean they cant post a teaser for the new cp
sick arch
i doubt they'd announce both cp03 and switch at the same time
ornate rivet
we will see
but they already announced the switch
I hope we at least get a picture teaser
TC multitasks quite a lot
humble sinew
cp4 exlusive to switch
it makes dreamshield funtion like the Capture mechanic from Odyssey
solemn rivet
geez, graig has evolved into Super Graig. Shows how long I've been gone
warped sinew
This isn't even my final form
solemn rivet
inb4 cp3 is actually Super Saiyan Graig
btw, do we know if cp3 won't break things drammatically with the current modding scene?
buoyant wasp
the switch release is far more likely to break a crapton of stuff
young walrus
Inb4 black egg temple skip is found
fair rampart
idk how to mod though
buoyant wasp
there is a difference between modding the game
fair rampart
Someone needs to make a mod where every sound is replaced with the Aspid Mother giving birth.