i looked at the code, but the only thing i could think of is that the unity random generator isn't working the way we expect
#archived-modding-development
buoyant wasp
ah
yup
gotta reset the seed on the generator
Random.seed = System.DateTime.Now.Millisecond;
meh, no worries
leaden hedge
cause I literally just finished recoding 80% of it
buoyant wasp
haha
leaden hedge
and it doesn't compile 
buoyant wasp
it's not a huge thing, having to restart the game is only annoying, not breaking.
oh, one thing while you're rewriting stuff, can you make those 3 guys in false knight not exist when you teleport in?
vale zenith
@buoyant wasp I'm fine with MIT
buoyant wasp
sucks to get teleported and hit immediately
vale zenith
I assume Sean is too but ask him as well
buoyant wasp
honestly you could probably steal the seed generation button from the randomizer
π
leaden hedge
wow this actually worked
buoyant wasp
bonus there is that folks could share boss rush seeds
"wow this actually worked" is basically how i felt last night when i finally solved the API thing. honestly didn't expect it to work π
lol, found a way to soft lock, don't go left at false night
if you fall down, you're just screwed
leaden hedge
yeah
rain cedar
@buoyant wasp Yeah I don't have any problems with that
buoyant wasp
bleh, got stuck in the floor of the soul master fight
also, if you quit out and reload the game, you're served with the loading screen forever
license added
leaden hedge
because I don't save your progress in the save
so It has no idea where its supposed to be
buoyant wasp
hehe, well you can now π
buoyant wasp
yeah, in my case i wanted to try and unstuck myself
rain cedar
Yeah, KDT is working on a boss rush mod now
buoyant wasp
So i wonder, now that we can compile the API and merge it, rather than having to hand add it......would it be worth looking at using something like log4net when looking at updating the logging system? Instead of re-inventing the wheel, leave it to a library actually designed to deal with logging and concurrent writes and levels and all that.
leaden hedge
heres the new bossrush code https://github.com/KayDeeTee/hk-bossrush/tree/dev/src it pretty buggy atm so no real release
its playable, but certain stuff doesnt work how I want
although it fixes mobs spawning inside you
and the random seed issue
buoyant wasp
interesting, so now that you are storing boss order seperately i assume you're opening the door for shuffling the order down the road?
leaden hedge
should be very easy to randomize order now
buoyant wasp
guessing each of the commented bosses present some technical challenge ?
leaden hedge
soul master is buggy,
thk is buggy after kill
WD / GPZ have no issuses, but I haven't bothered to go get the positions
but I'm not sure on the difficultly to set WD / GPZ
and theres 1 more main issue
theres 22 bosses and 66 items atm
3 items per boss = 66 items used
more bosses = crash
buoyant wasp
I would put WD in the same category as Tyrant, LK, and FK
hmm
what if you made it so that once you've gone through the available pool, any items not picked up would get reshuffled back into the pool
also, perhaps putting in the unbreakable versions of the 3 fragile charms would give you 1 more bosses' worth
but basically, lets say someone perfect kills the first 22 bosses and gets 2 items per boss. there are now 22 items left that haven't been picked up. those 22 could then become the new pool for the remaining bosses
leaden hedge
I guess I could recode assignItems() and only call it before spawning the items
but yeah the only bug atm is ItemData.activate()
if (!ItemInfo.upgrades.ContainsKey(varName))
ItemInfo.upgrades[varName] = 0;
ItemInfo.upgrades[varName]++;
this doesn't seem to work, which breaks shadow cloak
buoyant wasp
hmm, how does the randomizer do it?
leaden hedge
it uses if hasDash ? "hasShadowDash" : "hasDash"
which I could also do
but
private string getName()
{
if (!ItemInfo.upgrades.ContainsKey(varName))
ItemInfo.upgrades[varName] = 0;
if (lanSheet != "RAW")
return Language.Language.Get(lanKeys[0], lanSheet);
return lanKeys[ItemInfo.upgrades[iternName]%lanKeys.Length];
}
allows me to have multiple names for items as they get more levels
itemInfo.Add(new ItemInfo("nailLevel", "UI", "nailDamage", 4, "INV_NAME_NAIL2", "INV_NAME_NAIL3", "INV_NAME_NAIL4", "INV_NAME_NAIL5"));
as you can see here
fk
I'm retarded
buoyant wasp
lol, I have insufficient data to either agree or disagree on your mental status
leaden hedge
private string getName()
{
if (!ItemInfo.upgrades.ContainsKey(varName))
ItemInfo.upgrades[varName] = 0;
if (lanSheet != "RAW")
return Language.Language.Get(lanKeys[ItemInfo.upgrades[iternName]%lanKeys.Length], lanSheet);
return lanKeys[0];
}
well whatever it works better than I expected
considering I completely recoded the entire thing
buoyant wasp
lol
better than what we had before, which was nothing
oh, interesting, you made the fragile charms unbreakable?
leaden hedge
yeah
buoyant wasp
nice
buoyant wasp
@rain cedar - is there ever a situation in which 2 things could call ModLog from separate threads/concurrently?
rain cedar
Unless the mod maker goes out of their way to thread something, I don't think so
MonoBehaviour.StartCoroutine might thread things
I'm not 100% sure on that
buoyant wasp
k
buoyant wasp
waffling on the logging thing. I know right now fast concurrent logs can end up causing it to break (we did it with the overlay mod). Thinking it might be best to use something like ConcurrentQueue<string> to handle it.
scarlet brook
Hi, I'm new in all this and I was messing around with dnSpy trying to find and change some values. However, I couldn't find where some charm effects are coded (I know most of them are on HeroController) nor where some constants are defined. Is that me or Assembly-CSharp.dll is sort of cut down?
buoyant obsidian
There's a lot you won't be able to find unless you start looking through FSMs.
dnSpy will only get you so far
timber gale
I remember someone said that glass soul kills you after getting hit, not necessarily taking damage, so does that mean that Life Ender/Zote could kill you?
rain cedar
I would assume no
Also to save people the trouble of looking it up like I did: He means Zote
timber gale
I fixed it
buoyant obsidian
Glass Soul kills you when you take damage, not when you get hit.
Although I guess that could also mean it kills you when you take 0 damage? But I don't think Zote kills you.
trim totem
interdsting
leaden hedge
I dunno if I actually fixed it or what
buoyant wasp
so it just magically started working?
leaden hedge
no
public void updateText()
{
SetTextMeshProGameText[] textMeshPro = shiny.GetComponentsInChildren<SetTextMeshProGameText>();
foreach (SetTextMeshProGameText tmp in textMeshPro)
{
tmp.name = "FSM NO LOOKY HERE";//this is new
if (tmp.convName == "INSPECT")
{
tmp.convName = "INSPECT" + id.ToString();
tmp.sheetName = "item" + id.ToString();//this is new
//Modding.ModHooks.ModLog(tmp.convName);
tmp.UpdateText();
}
}
}
lol
leaden hedge
public string PromptOverride(string key, string sheet)
{
if (key == "INSPECT")
{
BossInfo.updateText();
return BossInfo.itemName(1);
}
if (sheet == "item0")
return BossInfo.itemName(0);
if (sheet == "item1")
return BossInfo.itemName(1);
if (sheet == "item2")
return BossInfo.itemName(2);
return Language.Language.GetInternal(key, sheet);
}
and I changed it from looking at the convName to sheetName
buoyant wasp
well, whatever works
buoyant wasp
is this version ready for playing yet?
also, not sure if this will apply to your new code, but i just had an instance where i kill gruz without taking any damage, but could only pick up 1 charm. does your "damage taken" thing check for mask loss or could it count damage that would have been taken while invincible (such as with dive)?
lusty lantern
Why do I feel like I'm looking at java code.
rain cedar
It's c#
lusty lantern
Or that.
leaden hedge
@buoyant wasp
take a guess
buoyant wasp
Ascend!
that's a new super secret buff that elevates you to god level of power right? π /s
fair rampart
lusty lantern
Think they were doing some boss rush.
buoyant wasp
yeah, i was being sarcastic about the buff. if you want the god buff, install debug mod π in this case, he's working on buss rush, yes
timber gale
Hollow knight does not like 2 radiance existing
Only seems to have issues when switching phases though
It was doubling the attacks just fine as far as I could tell, but when one if them got to the spike rain the game crashed
buoyant wasp
@leaden hedge - found another bug with the old version to check for in the new. If you kill the boss and die in the same time frame, you'll respawn, but the shinies are gone, so softlock π
mellow zinc
Is the boss rush mode functional? I'd love to try it but I'm completely new to HK mods and I've got no idea how to install it. Readme doesn't help.
leaden hedge
install the api, then put the dll in Hollow Knight\hollow_knight_Data\Managed\Mods
leaden hedge
Text should work now, and you shouldn't be able to softlock by dying as you kill the boss, although dying AFTER will
oh and items should be pooled, so when you run out, it'll put old ones back into the pool
copper rover
OwO what's this ?
It's been a while since I came here
Are mod actually doing great changes now ?
leaden hedge
just make a backup of assembly-csharp.dll
leaden hedge
%appdata%/../locallow/team cherry
boss rush just teleports you to each boss
you kill it, and it drops 3 upgrades and you get to pick one of them, (unless you kill it without getting hit, then you get 2)
then you go to the next boss
copper rover
Alright made a backup
leaden hedge
you need to play with an empty save anyway
leaden hedge
you need to install the api
late sphinx
oh i thought i got to get 2 upgrades as a glitch
leaden hedge
the api makes the folder for you
late sphinx
didn't know it happened if you defeated a boss without taking a hit
copper rover
Where is the API ? Sorry if those question sounds dumb but I never did HK modding before.
leaden hedge
its in the gdrive pinned in this channel
copper rover
Latest version is 1.2.1.4 ?
leaden hedge
yes
copper rover
Hmm... What do I do once I've merged the old files with the new ?
Do I run the game ?
Alright it's working. Thanks for the help. I've always wanted a boss rush mode.
copper rover
Hmm
Not sure if bug but when you start a new save it takes you back to the same boss.
Also Grimmchild doesn't seem to be working.
So it's useless as a reward.
copper rover
Oh ok...
leaden hedge
the only items that are actually broken are joni's and hiveblood
buoyant wasp
so, found a softlock
if you die to grimm1, then go over to get your shade (which is outside of grimms room), he'll still start the fight, but then you're locked out of his room.
leaden hedge
get it after the fight
buoyant wasp
well, yes, but there's no way for a new player to know that
and since you can't save/quit/load, you're just screwed π
also, i don't htink you've quite figured out the labeling stuff
hazy sentinel
legible
buoyant wasp
more that somehow flukenest was listed twice
hazy sentinel
double flukenest ez
buoyant wasp
wth...flukenest again
which was dreamwielder...
yay, i'm playing randomizer bossrush apparently π
3 flukenst = cast once and the entire screen should be nothing but flukes π
and got no items at all from mantis lords
copper rover
Anyone got tip for the Watchers Knight ?
I feel like it's way too hard that early on unless you highroll upgrades.
buoyant wasp
eh, honestly, focus on getting double drops from the first 4 bosses,
also, i think the new code for shuffling items back into the pool is broken, i've had shape of unn show up like 4 times in the same run
and sometimes shape of unn is something else, like dreamshield
leaden hedge
hmm
I wonder if theres a desync between what its showing
and what it is
I'll revert that and see if it fixes anything
buoyant wasp
also, i need to test it, or oyu can, but kill false knight, then quit, start a new game and kill him again, city crest now drops (1st time it doesn't)
leaden hedge
ah it only destroys it first time, because it uses the fact I don't have a shiny yet to determine if the shiny is city crest
so second load I already have a reference and it doesn't detect it
buoyant wasp
yeah, but i'm wondering if that messes up your labeling
like since there are now 4 shinies
it can't rewrite the labels for them correctly
leaden hedge
public void Spawn()
{
shiny = Instantiate(BossRush.shiny);
if (position.x < -900)
shiny.transform.position = new Vector2((BossRush.hc.transform.position.x + (id == 1 ? -2.75f : 0) + (id == 2 ? 2.75f : 0)), BossRush.hc.transform.position.y);
else
shiny.transform.position = position;
PlayMakerFSM shinyFSM = FSMUtility.LocateFSM(shiny, "Shiny Control");
shinyFSM.FsmVariables.GetFsmInt("Trinket Num").Value = id+1;
FsmUtil.ChangeTransition(shinyFSM, "PD Bool?", "COLLECTED", "Fling?");
updateText();
}
public void updateText()
{
SetTextMeshProGameText[] textMeshPro = shiny.GetComponentsInChildren<SetTextMeshProGameText>();
foreach (SetTextMeshProGameText tmp in textMeshPro)
{
tmp.gameObject.AddComponent<SetInspectText>().id = id;
Destroy(tmp);
}
SetInspectText[] sits = shiny.GetComponentsInChildren<SetInspectText>();
foreach (SetInspectText sit in sits)
{
sit.id = id;
}
}
the only issue I could imagine it being
is if for somereason unity is pushing my changes back to BossRush.shiny
copper rover
Double drops ?
buoyant wasp
@leaden hedge yup, having city crest definitely screws it up. it got labeled as howling wraiths, the left was howling wraiths, then killing gruz howling wraiths was labeled on the right, which when picked up granted nothing, then the next boss dropped nothing at all
@copper rover - if you take no damage in a fight, you can pickup 2 of the 3 items instead of 1
copper rover
Ooooh
buoyant wasp
also, using dive still counts as taking damage through the invincibility frames
copper rover
Are you saying I should get gud
buoyant wasp
uhm......i'm not usually in that camp, but...purple? 
leaden hedge
this one should hopefully work
also you really shouldn't lose flawless from dive
public int tookDamage(ref int type, int d)
{
if (d > 0 && (hc.damageMode != DamageMode.NO_DAMAGE && !hc.cState.invulnerable && !hc.cState.recoiling && !PlayerData.instance.isInvincible && !hc.cState.dead && !hc.cState.hazardDeath))
{
flawless = false;
if (PlayerData.instance.health - d > 1)
{
BossRush.hc.normalSlash.SetFury(false);
BossRush.hc.alternateSlash.SetFury(false);
BossRush.hc.upSlash.SetFury(false);
BossRush.hc.downSlash.SetFury(false);
BossRush.hc.wallSlash.SetFury(false);
}
}
return d;
}
this is without the city crest, bug
i'll test the new one here in a bit, have to go put a bed together apparently
also, in that image there, i picked up the left one, which should have been fireball, but was nothing
slate owl
@rain cedar About the debug mod. The mouse cursor is not visible so it's very hard to see what you're clicking. Any chance to add a hovering effect on the buttons?
leaden hedge
press escape
slate owl
Ah.
rain cedar
I didn't even know you could click them without pausing
leaden hedge
with the new input beta you can press buttons with the controller
for some reason
attacking toggles my invincibility
rain cedar
Sounds fun
slate owl
Btw, mods that are open-source should have a link to the github repo in their README.
rain cedar
Makes sense
slate owl
Wait, you created the buttons of the top menu from scratch?
rain cedar
Yes
slate owl
Why not use GUI.Button?
rain cedar
Mainly for it to be easily distinguishable from Kein's debug mod
Don't want him trying to claim this is his or anything
timber gale
Yeah, I was finding that sometimes controller would click stuff and sometimes it wouldn't
copper rover
Is there a mod that adds a custom made Hornet ?
buoyant obsidian
Lightbringer is the closest thing to that, but it's not updated for Content Pack 2 yet
copper rover
What does it do ?
buoyant obsidian
Instead of slashing with a sword, you shoot out little projectiles
and there's a bunch of new charms to go with them
It's probably nothing like Hornet is going to be at all but I've seen a few people compare the two
buoyant wasp
@rain cedar - Want to add a version# to mod API (so that it shows up with the other mod's versions), you want it in ModHooks or ModLoader?
rain cedar
ModHooks already has a version attribute which is of type GameVersionData
Probably best to add it there
buoyant wasp
k
do you want to just append the GameVersionData? Like 1.2.1.4.something?
just thinking it'd be less confusing to say "Mod API v1.0.0 for game version 1.2.1.4"
rain cedar
GameVersionData has a field gameVersion
I'm thinking you could have a similar field like modVersion
buoyant wasp
yeah
interesting, looks like you must have added that with the 1.2.1.4 release, cause when i exported these out of the 1.2.1.0 API, it didn't have this field :/
wonder what else i might have missed then
rain cedar
I think I put it in the 1.2.1.0 one on the drive
But I guess it wouldn't be in the github project
leaden hedge
also I found the problem
Object Pool attached to GlobalPool has run out of Arrow Prompt prefabs, Instantiating an additional one.
so instead of actually using the Arrow Prompt attached to the gameobject im copying
it just picks a random one
buoyant wasp
lol
so does that happen when you have 4 arrows on the screen?
or does it just happen randomly?
leaden hedge
it overflows randomly
everytime an arrow prompt is required but the pool is empty it creates a new one
but otherwise it just picks a random one
buoyant wasp
Beta version of the Mod API (1.2.1.4-2). Includes completely rewritten logging system (look at ModHooks.Logger) which allows for different levels of logging. FINE > DEBUG > INFO > WARN > ERROR. Also now adds Modding API version # to the list of versions on the main menu. Right now logging level is hard coded to be DEBUG or higher, need to put in something to make that adjustable...
kindred palm
You gain your health-2 damage to your Nail in exchange for not being able to use Fury.ο»Ώ (Glass Soul) - fireb0rn
So if you have 5HP then your nail damage is boosted +3?
@buoyant obsidian
buoyant obsidian
I think so yeah
kindred palm
Isn't the mod made by you π€
buoyant obsidian
I was double checking
kindred palm
Wait! - How do you have health in Glass Soul?
buoyant obsidian
The health is still there, you just die in one hit.
And nail damage is equal to base+health-4
So that means +1 damage at the beginning, but fireb0rn gets the lifeblood at the beginning of his run so it ends up being +3
Useless charms like Thorns of Agony give you movement speed in 1.1.1.8, but I'm probably taking that out for the next version
I'll update Glass Soul right now since it's relatively simple
buoyant obsidian
Yep
kindred palm
So it should be Base+HP-4?
buoyant obsidian
Yeah
kindred palm
Great
buoyant wasp
@leaden hedge most recent dll seems to introduce a fair amount of lag when you kill a boss
orchid venture
so saying you have all masks and jonis blessing is a +10
if someone would be mad enough to do that
buoyant obsidian
Yeah you can get some serious bonus damage
Like +25 if you really wanna gather every lifeblood cocoon
kindred palm
That would really be a long journey
buoyant wasp
@leaden hedge - Whatever is causing this (might be what you found about the arrow), is murdering FPS. I have thousands of these in the output_log.txt
NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
at BossRush.ItemData.updateText () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at BossRush.ItemHandler.updateText () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at BossRush.BossInfo.updateText () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at BossRush.SetInspectText.UpdateText () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at BossRush.SetInspectText.Update () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
its complaining that SetInspectText doesn't exist
because instead of using the actual children of the prefab I copied
its just remaking them
buoyant wasp
anyway to prevent NRE there? exceptions are slow (i think catching an exception takes like 50-70ms)
buoyant wasp
i thought it was already in c#?
leaden hedge
I mean the shiny object
leaden hedge
quality design btw
every single arrow prompt has every single possible label hard coded into it
buoyant wasp
lol
leaden hedge
rather than just setting the string
buoyant wasp
that's alot of overhead
buoyant wasp
did you change fury to work at full HP (since it was counterintuitive to have when you're trying to kill bosses without getting it?)
or is it a bug that my blade is red?
buoyant wasp
so its red, but it does nothing? π
leaden hedge
yeah
buoyant wasp
lol
leaden hedge
I guess it tells you if you lost your flawless bonus
buoyant wasp
well, there is that i suppose, but doesn't really make it worth picking up either π
buoyant obsidian
Anyone here remember that easy way to remove the overcharm backboard?
buoyant wasp
not sure if this is part of the normal game logs, but i also see a ton of this in the logs while in boss rush:
FSM not Preprocessed: Particle Rock Large Pool(Clone) : rubble_push
buoyant wasp
is sporeshroom in the rando logic for getting into greenpath?
leaden hedge
should be
timber gale
Is there a way to add/subtract charm notches in the debug mod?
rustic fossil
What can be done so far in modding? I have yet to take a look at the files
I technically haven't finished the game yet
Or maybe it would be easier to ask is there anything major that can't be done at the moment?
rustic fossil
Add content :P
solemn rivet
what kind of content?
rustic fossil
Like, I'd be curious about doing map editing or adding charms
rustic fossil
Ah, that's understandable
rustic fossil
I imagine it's sort of similar to Rain World modding
Because they're both mostly dnSpy
solemn rivet
yeah
the thing is, though, that most of the code is not on the assembly
if it was, we could change it, even with dnspy
most of the code is on finite state machines
which are a mess
and not directly editable
solemn rivet
could be worse, wyza
most things are reasonably named
and are somewhat reasonably placed
buoyant wasp
let me refer you to the gist that KDT posted earlier about the label/arrow things π
but yes
timber gale
Weren't the devs talking about a full rework at one point?
buoyant wasp
they could have compiled it with code obfuscators and digital signing that would make it a great deal harder
solemn rivet
wait, wasn't the arrow thingies mosttly fsm?
buoyant wasp
idk
it was just a long list of nested stuff in what i'm assuming is some sort of psuedo code
this
or a call stack or something
leaden hedge
its a dump of a game object tree
-'s are game objects length is depth
_'s are components on each branch
so, Shiny Item, is made up of a transform, sprite render, animator, fsm, rigidbodt2d, boxcollider2d, some fsm stuff, and audio source
and has an inspect region as a child
and thats made up of a transform, boxcollider, fsm stuff
and has prompt marker, and arrow prompt as children
buoyant wasp
interesting
slate owl
I already made a object dump.
Used it to hide certain game object to create the Hollow Knight map.
Btw, one useful thing to add to the Mod API would be subscribing to key press.
leaden hedge
you don't need to do that
slate owl
How to call a function when a certain key is pressed?
slate owl
I want unused keys.
leaden hedge
Input.GetKey(KeyCode.A) will be true if A is pressed
slate owl
That means I need my own loop.
leaden hedge
ok
solemn rivet
you mean keyboard keys, not controller buttons?
leaden hedge
make a class
public class button : MonoBehaivour{
public void Update(){
if(Input.GetKey(KeyCode.A){
//dostuff
}
}
}
public override void Initialize(){
GameObject go = new GameObject();
GameObject.DontDestroyOnLoad(go);
go.addComponent<button>();
}
tada
you have a loop
slate owl
Ya, but thatd be nice to have it directly from the API.
Also simplify unloading as well.
leaden hedge
seems odd to make an api for specifically this when you can do it via creating a script and attaching it
do you want a delegate for every single key combo?
including presses, releases, holds and modifiers
slate owl
I think everythings that is very common should be there.
So people dont resort to hacks to make it work.
leaden hedge
what I did isn't a hack
thats literally what you'd do if you main a game in unity
and wanted to get the A press
slate owl
Adding a fake invisible button to check for input is kinda a hack.
slate owl
Ya, I guess.
leaden hedge
it does literally nothing but listen for a keypress
broken fable
@rain cedar It looks like you're going to beat me to the xml changes. i've made changes already to my xml and i'm partway through the C# code to interpret it.
rain cedar
I changed the xml but I don't have code for parsing it
Not at home to do that right now
broken fable
@rain cedar I'm not sure you're going to like one of my changes. It's to switch from using easy, hard, and hardpermadeath mode filters to using "Shade Skip" and "Hard Mode" as pseudo items that you start with in certain modes. I think it makes the logic way easier to understand, and much less verbose.
for example, here's the requirements to get to salubra:
<or>
<requirement>Mantis Claw</requirement>
<requirement>Mothwing Cloak</requirement>
<requirement>Shade Cloak</requirement>
<requirement>Monarch Wings</requirement>
<requirement>Crystal Heart</requirement>
<and>
<requirement>Hard Mode</requirement>
<requirement>Vengeful Spirit</requirement>
</and>
<and>
<requirement>Hard Mode</requirement>
<requirement>Shade Soul</requirement>
</and>
<requirement>Shade Skip</requirement>
</or>
That's pretty similar to how I ended up doing it
Except I was planning to just have a logic string instead of tags
broken fable
oh, and then parse with parentheses matching and stuff?
rain cedar
Yeah
broken fable
can you give me an example of the syntax? I think I can implement that faster than the xml thing I've got going.
well, actually the xml stuff isn't that hard. i've already gotten past the hardest parts. but strings sound cool too.
slate owl
Btw, whats the goal?
For every key location and key items, write the list of requirements?
broken fable
this is for randomizer. so the requirements to get to each location are important so that the randomization doesn't make the game unbeatable.
buoyant wasp
the xml already exists, they are rewriting it to be less overly verbose and easier to manage and maintain
broken fable
you can see the current database here: https://github.com/MyEyes/RandomizerMod/blob/f793b917a07da7ebd8a45ea6f8747c159306224e/Randomizer/randomizer.xml
broken fable
@rain cedar like this kind of syntax? (Mantis Claw || (Vengeful Spirit && Shade Skip))
that's not too bad to parse.
slate owl
Whats the problem with the current syntax?
buoyant wasp
@slate owl yes, there is easy/hard. easy means far fewer difficult skips could be required like several shade skips, CP without claw, etc.
the current syntax means the XML is 1700 lines long π
slate owl
How often will it get updated?
broken fable
@slate owl look at the requirements for baldur shell. the requirements should be written as simple as ((Claw || Cloak || Crystal Heart || Monarch Wings) && (Fireball || Quake || Glowing Womb || Sporeshroom || Mark of Pride)). Instead we have this mess: https://github.com/MyEyes/RandomizerMod/blob/f793b917a07da7ebd8a45ea6f8747c159306224e/Randomizer/randomizer.xml#L620-L785
and if there's a new way that's found to defeat baldurs (like grimmchild or something), then it would need to be added in about 11 places.
buoyant wasp
the logic will be updated as often as someone finds some new way to get to something or as often as TC releases some small patch that breaks half the game π
broken fable
here's the history of updates to the xml file alone: https://github.com/MyEyes/RandomizerMod/commits/a7fa150c488856b34e3f894b227b6d8a0f9ac8a1/randomizer.xml
(and then it got renamed, so the history doesn't follow as cleanly)
slate owl
I could start working on a bingo for Hollow Knight. Thatd be neat.
In short, its a 5x5 grids with random goals. And the first player to complete a row/column of goals win.
timber gale
Wouldn't that just be RNG though?
slate owl
What do you mean?
timber gale
Like depending on who gets the easiest set of goals to make 5x5
slate owl
All players have the same grid.
timber gale
Ah ok, that makes sense
buoyant obsidian
Bingo sounds neat
slate owl
Really?
broken fable
has that bingo been raced?
leaden hedge
no its awful to play
timber gale
far right column is hell
leaden hedge
literally no direction here is an enjoyable run
slate owl
Why would stag station be banned?
timber gale
The center row might be... ok?
leaden hedge
col1: free all grubs
col2: fill 75 journals
col3: no benches and ToF
col4: 35 grubs
col5: palace and flower
slate owl
Short card: Clear White Palace lol
leaden hedge
also a lot of them are really annoying to track
like free 35 grubs
as if theres an ingame tracker for that
slate owl
Isnt there a player tracker?
slate owl
Imo, a bingo should last at most 1 hour.
solemn rivet
random bingo with randomizer mod 
timber gale
This is like 30 min for 4 objectives then find all white palace radiance spirit trees
broken fable
bingo with debug mod
timber gale
the center space should be "crash the game" with debug mod
broken fable
is that bingo project open source?
slate owl
Ill go ask in the speedrun channel.
leaden hedge
no its some random one
timber gale
I feel like boss rush could work pretty well for bingo for fun if you got good rng
broken fable
so && isn't a good choice for xml. it would need to be &&. I'm going with AND and OR now.
rain cedar
I was just using + and |
I'm home now if you want me to just send you the xml I have
Instead of you having to make all the changes yourself
broken fable
i've got a script that converts the layout.
- and | make sense.
yeah, send me your xml.
rain cedar
I'm using HARD, CLASSIC, and KEYITEMS as keywords for stuff
HARD meaning hard mode obviously, CLASSIC meaning not steel soul, KEYITEMS being the keyitems tag at the top
broken fable
cool.
is CLASSIC better than SHADESKIP or something? is shade skip the only difference between steel soul and classic?
rain cedar
Yeah, that's the only difference
How I would probably go about this is do a first pass loading all the logic strings but not parsing them at all
Then a second pass where you parse the logic out
So that you can check if items exist in the entries dictionary while parsing out the logic
Due to version differences
broken fable
is there a ModdingAPI function to get the game version?
broken fable
cool
slate owl
So whats exactly left to do for the randomizer?
rain cedar
Not much
buoyant wasp
The logic for the XML parsing needs to be redone so that the XML isn't parsed on game load every single time. (right now the XML is deserialized every time the game starts and it's time consuming, needs to be deserialized once, and then stored in some sort of binary format for future loads.) The randomization itself needs to be redone to only happen once and then store the result in the save file rather than on each save load. rnd.js needs to go away. the overlay needs to handle those new changes.
but all those things are fairly small
the core functionality works quite well π
rain cedar
From a gameplay perspective it's pretty much done, yeah
buoyant wasp
unless someone can solve the icons and make it so that when you get a spells/skill/item it shows the right icon
slate owl
Tbh, I dont think its a big deal to parse it everytime.
leaden hedge
I already solved that for everything except djump and spells
buoyant wasp
the randomization on load is expensive
rain cedar
Yeah, modifying the fsms is too big of a change for what you get from it though @leaden hedge
In my opinion
slate owl
Does it happen once in the entire playthrough?
buoyant wasp
the xml part is once, the randomize on load is every save and quit
slate owl
lol
buoyant wasp
causes a 2s lag on every S&Q
rain cedar
Honestly just moving that into a load screen instead of main menu is probably good enough
Still there, just nobody would notice it anymore
slate owl
Dont know why itd b e so long to parse it though.
rain cedar
The randomization is only like .5s for me
buoyant wasp
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
running on a core i7-6770k, so not a potato dunno why its slower for me
but if we ever decide to do an actual tournament, getting rid of all the stuff that lets you easily dump the randomization values would need to happen imo
rain cedar
Yeah
If you're fine with decompressing the save for the overlay that's an easy change
buoyant wasp
well, should be able to just add a hook to the OnAfterSaveLoad event, and get it from there.
slate owl
So what exactly got swapped?
slate owl
Currently playing the mod.
buoyant wasp
so the game says "You got Fury"
but the overlay needs to know that "you got mantis claw"
slate owl
Could swap grub too.
slate owl
Why? Too complex?
buoyant wasp
the current system makes runs about 1-2.5 hours
if you swapped grubs
you could easily make it much, much longer
the average run time is about 1.5-1.75 hours depending on the seed and the skill of the runner
which most runners seem happy with
slate owl
Does it consider glitches?
leaden hedge
glitches would be insanely boring
slate owl
Once you get vengeful spirit, youre good for everything lol
buoyant wasp
i just had a run where i never got VS
i had only 1 spell, wraiths π
just lvl1 wraiths, to boot
slate owl
I guess it depends on its meant to be played.
buoyant wasp
the goal of the randomizer is to beat the game without glitches. sometimes you get god seeds and finish in 45-50 minutes, but usually its about double that
sometimes that ends up meaning you have low%
buoyant wasp
the fastest i've seen is 46 minutes, that made for a terrible WK
hehe, climb, the troll item
seen several seeds where it was 2 hours of searching and getting almost every charm/spell before finding climb
lusty lantern
Does randomizer have specific points the item can't be after? Like you can't have say dash, mantis claw, etc. at points where in order to get to them, you need said item to get to?
Like, monarch wings requires you to be able to double jump to get to it.
buoyant wasp
it has softlock protection yes
though wings does not require double jump to get it
only double jump to get out, but you can save and quit instead
slate owl
I think a mode where mask, vessel, items etc.. are shuffled too would be nice.
Maybe not for racing but as a puzzle.
buoyant wasp
heh
slate owl
I could make a reverse algorithm.
You enter what you found so far and it displays everything accessible in a map.
Anyway, maybe later..
buoyant wasp
uhm....
well
it's something
guessing that's the first prototype of your own version of the arrow?
leaden hedge
yeah
buoyant wasp
nice
at least you have it writing the thing out to the screen
you going to give it the same flourish/graphical look/feel as the standard one?
leaden hedge
should hopefully look the exact same
leaden hedge
buoyant wasp
@vale zenith were you thinking of using something like ildasm+ilasm or trying to leverage the classes in dnspy to do the IL injection programmatically?
vale zenith
The latter
buoyant wasp
cool. seemed like the easiest option since alot of the "work" for that was already done for us
vale zenith
Yeah that's the plan. Also dnspy already defines extension points
buoyant wasp
yeah, i saw that it had them, just there didn't seem to be much documentation on how to use them. I only used ILMerge because I got it to work, not because of really any other reason π
so if we can sort out using dnspy programmatically for all of it, no reason not to dump ILMerge too
vale zenith
I don't have much tine during the work week so it'll probably have to wait until the weekend
buoyant wasp
hah, i understand that π
training all week this week, so my evenings will be spent doing what i should have been doing during the day 
noble trout
sience i am now done with my challenge runs and can finally get back to playing modded what mod is new?
and you recommend the most
how do i read the README in the bossrush mod?
its a .md file
rain cedar
Guess that's all that's in it, then
leaden hedge
did you get that from github
noble trout
no i got that from the pinned message google drive
leaden hedge
the install isn't complicated anyway, just put BossRush.dll into /Mods/ after you install the api
noble trout
how do i install the api?
leaden hedge
read the api instructions
rain cedar
API has a similarly shitty readme
noble trout
wut
rain cedar
I'm lazy
noble trout
oh
rain cedar
Just paste it into your game directory
noble trout
wait just drag the api into here?
sorry for the mess (even tho its not all my fault)
buoyant wasp
i keep meaning to do a short YT video on doing mod installs....maybe tonight
but yes, just drag and drop
and replace when prompted
rain cedar
A video on installing mods would be like 10 seconds long
buoyant wasp
but backup Hollow_Knight_data/managed/Assembly-CSharp.dll first π
noble trout
i took the hiveblood am i not meant to be sent out
noble trout
also i didnt like the fact you instantly get damage when you first open the run
leaden hedge
thats already fixed on a newer version
buoyant wasp
lol
noble trout
it wasnt updated on the drive then
buoyant wasp
boss rush is < 1 week old
probably been like 8 releases in the last 7 days (perhaps an exaggeration)
leaden hedge
public void Update()
{
if (fsm.ActiveStateName == "In Range" || fsm.ActiveStateName == "Can Inspect?" || fsm.ActiveStateName == "Cancel Frame")
{
opacity += Time.deltaTime;
}
else
{
opacity -= Time.deltaTime;
}
opacity = Mathf.Clamp01(opacity);
tmp.faceColor = new Color32(tmp.faceColor.r, tmp.faceColor.g, tmp.faceColor.b, (byte)(opacity*255));
}
when this actually does what its suppose to
there will be a release
but apparently (byte)(1.0f * 255) = 0 and 255
255 when I print it
and 0 when I set color 
leaden hedge
yeah
no idea why a color is a byte
instead of a float
but I guess having to convert a float, into a byte, just so it can convert it back to float
is what it wants
leaden hedge
float math is the exact same as integer math
buoyant wasp
i should amend that, I hate floats in perl, I haven't done alot with floats in c#
but floats in perl mean that 1.5+1.5 is not always 3
leaden hedge
just in general for computers
buoyant wasp
it might be 2.99999999 or it might be 3.000000001
noble trout
when the boss started he just slided there while he screamed
buoyant wasp
grimmchild can't fully level until you kill grimm1
buoyant wasp
cause grimm1 is where he transforms
leaden hedge
1.5 should be 1.1 and 1.1, which should sum to 11.0
not sure how perl fucks that up
noble trout
so what not getting to him is too risky
also did the hornet spawn location also get fixed?
leaden hedge
nah it works before grimm1 now
buoyant wasp
oh nice
buoyant wasp
sometimes it's the best of 3 terrible choices
noble trout
i dunno i like him more after my summon challenge run
noble trout
hive is quite good
leaden hedge
and hive doesn't work
noble trout
yeah hive doesnt work
buoyant wasp
you might get compass, MP, and GC, if you pickup 2 items, GC is gonna be one of them
the worst bug i encounter is losing your shade
noble trout
but did the hornet spawn place get fixed
buoyant wasp
fixed how?
leaden hedge
you just have to walk to the right then to the left
noble trout
also when i took hive it said i took grub song is that just a place holder
yes i know
but i want it to be fixed
buoyant wasp
walk the dog, clearly
i suppose you could teleport the player further right so that you just have to walk left
but that's a fairly minor thing
it's not game breaking like the other stuff you have on your plate right now
noble trout
well fuck me
i have no dash and already at WATCHERS KNIGHT WHY ARE THEY AFTER BROODING MAWLEK
THIS DOESNT SEEM RIGHT
yeah im pretty sure they are impossible without a dash
leaden hedge
its easy with literally nothing
rain cedar
You don't need dash to dodge anything they have
leaden hedge
"FalseKnight","GruzMother","Hornet","MantisLords","CG1","BroodingMawlek","WatcherKnights","DungDefender","Grimm","Nosk",
"Uumuu","Flukemarm","Collector","CG2","TraitorLord","Hornet2","BrokenVessel","LostKin","SoulTyrant","FailedKnight",
"NightmareKingGrimm","Radiance"
where would you put WK
leaden hedge
crystal guardian1
leaden hedge
WatcherKnights
noble trout
after flukemarm
rain cedar
Watcher Knights is definitely not harder than Grimm
noble trout
after CG2 even
leaden hedge
Nosk is actually cancer without dash, UUmuu is super cancer without dash
flukemarm is basically impossible without upgrades
dd is pretty annoying without dive
and grimm is harder than wk
copper rover
Broken Vessel is pretty balanced without abilities
noble trout
yeah
copper rover
You can put it earlier than COllector imo
leaden hedge
broken vessel could be put earlier I guess
copper rover
For real I can't progress because of WK right now.
It's so hard without proper dash
noble trout
yeah i cant progress too
leaden hedge
WK is not a hard fight lol
leaden hedge
jump over the roll, walk under the jump, jump over the swing
noble trout
the slash move is unavoid able without a dash or double jump
noble trout
it is
leaden hedge
just walk away
copper rover
Unless you play the game 100% of the time
leaden hedge
and he can't hit you
solemn rivet
eh
noble trout
eayh soul master is easy
leaden hedge
soul master isn't even in there
noble trout
lol
solemn rivet
I won't disagree that Soul Master is easier
noble trout
rip soul master
copper rover
Then put it in
solemn rivet
but WK isn't even that hard tho
copper rover
Senpai
rain cedar
You can probably just change whatever fsm looks for dive
copper rover
WK gave me the most trouble in my first run because it's just anoying
And I had dash at that point
leaden hedge
well, also the item pool is exactly the same size
copper rover
And wings
leaden hedge
as the boss pool
copper rover
It's way too hard without proper upgrades and dash
leaden hedge
so adding another boss crashes the game
rain cedar
If you think Watchers are too hard without dash you just have shitty reaction time
solemn rivet
how about making Soul Master third boss (After False Knight and Hornet1) and making it so that dive doesn't drop til after him?
rain cedar
Even if you're getting hit all the time you can easily heal when they roll away
noble trout
@rain cedar that is called a hard boss
rain cedar
What is?
noble trout
a boss when you need hard reaction times
solemn rivet
"not easy" does not equal "hard"
noble trout
also if you are cornered by them you are just dead
leaden hedge
nah, like unless you're in the physically disabled part of reaction times
you should have no problem
leaden hedge
just don't walk into a corner
noble trout
you can
solemn rivet
or, you know, don't get cornered
noble trout
there are to of them blocking the way
leaden hedge
2 is too many
rain cedar
Worst case scenario when you get into a corner: Take one hit, walk through them
Bam, not in the corner
solemn rivet
KDT: where can I get the most up-to-date ver of boss rush?
leaden hedge
when I fix this stupid ass bug
solemn rivet
ok
leaden hedge
yeah its called a reward for being good
rain cedar
So don't get cornered, then
leaden hedge
if you're not good you don't deserve it
rain cedar
Watcher Knights is a very fair fight
noble trout
also what do you want me to do when one is bouncing and other is rolling at you? dash between them?
oh right
i cant
leaden hedge
control them better
solemn rivet
enemy management is part of learning boss fights
rain cedar
Yeah, just don't get into a situation that bad
leaden hedge
then you don't deserve the double drop
solemn rivet
know how to position youself and how to position the boss
rain cedar
Keep them grouped, and make them bounce up if possible
leaden hedge
would you prefer itemless uumuu
noble trout
no
leaden hedge
where you have to bounce off him to go up platforms
noble trout
but i would prefer broken vessel
rain cedar
Every time I've done this mod I ignore every movement drop except wall jump or double jump
Just so I can beat radiance
And it's fine
copper rover
It would be cool if like
You could choose the boss you want to go to next
In some way
noble trout
or dung def
noble trout
yeah
solemn rivet
and broken vessel, although easier, at least for me it's also easier to get hit on accident
so for me it should be left for later when you have more movement upgrades to ease maneuvering
noble trout
but WK is impossible with no dash
leaden hedge
no boss is impossible no dash
solemn rivet
^
leaden hedge
the only item you need for any boss is claw for radiance
trim totem
Wa
leaden hedge
you can use dive
vast basin
Shadow dash for Radiance, no?
rain cedar
Flukemarm with no upgrades is technically possible
vast basin
Oh
leaden hedge
nope
noble trout
claw or dash or double jump for failed champion
solemn rivet
technically
noble trout
you cant get to him without those
leaden hedge
you can do radiance without shade cloak
solemn rivet
but not feasibly
noble trout
or you know crystal heat
leaden hedge
well you don't need them for the fight
noble trout
you cant do radiance without shade cloack
vast basin
dive maybe
noble trout
how will you dodge the beam
leaden hedge
and even without dash you can do dive
vast basin
Theoretically
noble trout
and i i dont have dive?
trim totem
I'd consider dive an item that you need
leaden hedge
then you're going to get hit
rain cedar
You're guaranteed to see every item in the pool
noble trout
that is not ok
rain cedar
If you don't have dive or shade cloak it's your own fault
leaden hedge
but radiance is last
noble trout
oh ok i didnt know
leaden hedge
unless claw and both dives show up in the same pool
rain cedar
There's 3 items after every boss and you need 2 from a pool of 6
solemn rivet
oh, 6
rain cedar
2xdash, 2xdive, claw, wings
rain cedar
Although for dash to be useful you need both
Not worth giving up two damage upgrades for
solemn rivet
yeah
rain cedar
I'd only get both if there was crap alongside them in the drops
solemn rivet
anyway, with WK as the fifth boss, you have at least 4 upgrades before fighting them
noble trout
also what if shadow dash and normal dash are in pool?
solemn rivet
and it's not hard to no-hit all of them
rain cedar
WK is 7th
rain cedar
Because people are being babies
noble trout
because i dont have dash
leaden hedge
which isn't even true
solemn rivet
what did you pick up?
noble trout
dash didnt even show up it doesnt matter
leaden hedge
well you don't need it
solemn rivet
ofc it does
if your problem is not getting hit, dive, double jump and claw would certainly help you
noble trout
just fucking move WK
leaden hedge
to where
WK is the easiest of the bosses to do itemless
and consistently not get hit
leaden hedge
I meant after WK
"DungDefender","Grimm","Nosk", "Uumuu","Flukemarm","Collector","CG2","TraitorLord","Hornet2","BrokenVessel"
out of these bosses which one is easier to do itemless 100% of the time
noble trout
broken vessel and dung def DUH
solemn rivet
not easier than WK
buoyant wasp
dashless WK is not bad.
noble trout
yeah right much easier
buoyant wasp
you should have between 6 and 12 upgrades by the time you get to them. unless you are supremely unlucky, 12 upgrades is vastly more than any% runners kill them with
solemn rivet
^
noble trout
12?
solemn rivet
you should have at least one of the following: nail upgrades, spells, double jump, claw, range upgrades
noble trout
isnt he 7?
buoyant wasp
6*2 = 12 last i checked
leaden hedge
did anyone know you can clip into this wall and stand on the door
solemn rivet
is that FK?
buoyant wasp
looks like it
leaden hedge
yes
noble trout
i have double jump nail upgrade and vengful spirit
solemn rivet
wut
buoyant wasp
holy crap, that's plenty
solemn rivet
you have double jump?
buoyant wasp
why are we even talking about this with double jump?
rain cedar
Wow you're just really trash
buoyant wasp
man, you need to practice for a while
noble trout
then how do i find dung defender and broken vessek easier?
solemn rivet
playstyle differences
buoyant wasp
go grab the debug mod and grind WK for a few hours
noble trout
i dont need to practice i just wanna play the damn bosses
buoyant wasp
and, i'm done.
noble trout
i beat this game countless time i dont see why i shouldnt be able to beat those
solemn rivet
neither do I
leaden hedge
"this boss is too hard"
"I don't need to practice"
noble trout
i guess its just because its unfair
leaden hedge
apparently friend you do
leaden hedge
you can do NKG itemless
any boss you get hit by, in bossrush
is your fault
not the boss orders
buoyant obsidian
but but but Flukemama
solemn rivet
you mean Flukemilf
leaden hedge
flukemilf is right at the end
buoyant obsidian
Ah, good choice
leaden hedge
so you're pretty much guaranteed to have got dive or nail3 by then
buoyant obsidian
Where's the Collector? I really enjoyed his fight with nail 2
solemn rivet
at least, it should be WAAAAY more feasible than nail0
leaden hedge
"FalseKnight","GruzMother","Hornet","MantisLords","CG1","BroodingMawlek","WatcherKnights","DungDefender","Grimm","Nosk", "Uumuu","Flukemarm","Collector","CG2","TraitorLord","Hornet2","BrokenVessel","LostKin","SoulTyrant","FailedKnight","NightmareKingGrimm","Radiance"
this is the order @buoyant obsidian
noble trout
can someone record me them doing a hitless dashless WK?
solemn rivet
glad you didn't put NGG there, KDT
leaden hedge
if you no hit every boss you gotta do NGG or it encrypts your harddrive 
would you like itemless, hitless, nail0 WK?
noble trout
Itemless and hitless
leaden hedge
no spells?
noble trout
No spells
leaden hedge
let me hopefully finally fix this
solemn rivet
fsm things