I used KDT's code to write enemies' hp, geo and names into output log, but nothing happened
#archived-modding-development
solemn rivet
leaden hedge
are you actually running it
solemn rivet
I set it to run when setting up new game data, to be sure it would run
leaden hedge
well theres probably no enemies alive then
do it on level load
the health_manager_enemy is attached to each enemy
leaden hedge
I think new game data gets ran before the first cutscene
put it into HeroController.Attack(), if you want an easy place to test it
solemn rivet
oh, that explains it
thank you!
really thank you tho
in all honesty, this mod is mostly due to you rather than me
leaden hedge
oh and for the spell damage stuff, I only did fireball2/quake2/scream2, so you'll have to get the strings for fireball1/quake1/scream1 and flukenest variants of fireball1/2
I only think fireball1 and flukenest will be different though
solemn rivet
yeah
as soon as I'm comfortable with my idea about hp/geo I'll start thinking about Int
solemn rivet
okay, sounds like it should be fine
every luck level increases geo dropped in 2%
every dreamer defeated increases enemy HP by 33% of the original amount, so after beating all 3, enemies should have double HP
default crit damage (i.e. damage at dex level 0) is 110%
how does it sound?
solemn rivet
I guess I'll have to do a 100% run myself
but I really don't have the time for it right now
uni is killing me
I only got as far as beating hornet1
hazy sentinel
uh excuse me i only cheesed seals after killing all the dreamers
solemn rivet
and I did NOT farm for geo
had enough geo for 3 levels
which trivialized hornet1 btw
hazy sentinel
yeah rn it's basically just trading geo to get overpowered
hazy sentinel
pls no
solemn rivet
maybe not double
but like 1.4 or 1.5
so enemies that would take two swings to kill now take three
leaden hedge
I think its possible to change the damage enemies deal too
hazy sentinel
yeah but that should be more lategame
bc having things deal double damage early on is rough
leaden hedge
I was thinking 2x damage after all 3 dreamers
solemn rivet
KDT how do you find each variable? I would really like to contribute a bit myself
that's a good idea, KDT
makes the HP upgrade worth it as well
because rn it's useless
leaden hedge
so, it kinda depends what your looking for
so for the spells I know they have a boxcollider2d because well it collides
so I list all gameobjects in the scene, filter by which have boxcolliders, then manually sort through removing ones (literally doing gameObject.name != "whateever") that don't sound correct until im left with a few candidates
then I list all components on the gameobjects i think are the correct ones
specifically looking for PlayMakerFSMs with good looking names
then once I've found an FSM i think is correct I dump all of its variables, look at them all and test the ones that look correct
I hope to add a feature to the new debug mod coming out, which will let you click on objects to list their FSMs states and variables
solemn rivet
now I know why I don't get the Modder role
buoyant obsidian
tbh it's because you've never asked
solemn rivet
would it make any difference, aside from a nice new colour?
leaden hedge
you get moderator rights in this channel
leaden hedge
pretty sure its just so you can pin messages
solemn rivet
yeah, I know
it would make it easier to keep the bonfire mod links up-to-date, tho
because as it is, I keep updating it almost daily
leaden hedge
well just link to github
also, your supposed to use the releases button
to release things
leaden hedge
pretty sure theres a button you can press
that github has, and it'll say, cutting edge unstable or whatever
solemn rivet
my main issue is that some people have come here and followed the pinned link to Gdrive, which is outdated and does not work drmfree
hazy sentinel
i mean nobody except me plays drm-free anyways 
solemn rivet
thank you!
dapper folio
updated the drive folder
bleak robin
shouldn't gradow have modders role?
dapper folio
We've changed the role from being like Speedrunners into a more Art Crew style role
Personally, I think it should be called Modding Mods
leaden hedge
MODDERATORS
dapper folio
Ooh, I like it
bleak robin
oh
i thought it was a role for anyone who has made a full mod
like lightbringer, or blackmoth, or randomizer
shadow hare
is there a version of bonfire that works with the mod-installer?
or at least directly
leaden hedge
the modbundle?
leaden hedge
no, I can package it if you want
shadow hare
'^' if you would be so kind
I imagine others would appreciater if they end up like me in the future and wanna use the installer rather than hand-doing the zips
deep pilot
I've actually already created one, but I used a random tumblr image for the icon
I'd prefer someone else create an "official" modbundle version
shadow hare
if anyone could claim such, I figure that'd be KD
solemn rivet
I didn't wanna make an official modbundle because it's not an official release yet and I had no idea for an icon
But I guess I can make a simple icon
leaden hedge
@solemn rivet graig streamed some bonfire and had some ideas if you want to hear them
rain cedar
Anyone know what bool/int controls the elegant key?
solemn rivet
Oh! That would be amazing!
Seanpr, the only thing I know are the usual stuff in playerData
leaden hedge
it'd be cool to add rpg damage numbers on hit, with big red ones when you hit
charms you can level (maybe with essence)
actually adding crit damage to the ui
bosses should give geo / xp
maybe give rewards for hunters journal completion per enemy, with harder enemies giving more geo
also I had a couple extra ideas
rancid egg could be used to give a full stat reset and return spent geo, but obviously disable tuk and jiji like in permadeath
and
I think parries should give a guaranteed crit (or some other damage bonus)
solemn rivet
Omg
Not all of these, but some of these I had already thought
Like using rancid to reset
leaden hedge
oh and I think personally crit damage / chance ratios should change
one thing I noticed people are underwhelmed with how much damage crits do
making them do way more damage but way less likely would probably feel better
especially considering most of the time it doesn't even change the required number of hits to kill
solemn rivet
About the damage numbers, that was actually one of my first ideas, but I have no idea how to actually do that, so...
Even with dex?
leaden hedge
even max dex is only like 70% right
solemn rivet
Hm...
I'll think about it
Specially since I'm going to change enemy hp now
My thought process was that with str, dex and lck, the game would become too easy, since enemies do not scale
leaden hedge
I think like a 10% chance of 500% bonus damage is good target (keeping in line with other stats)
then you actually feel that crit
especially on small mobs
solemn rivet
Yeah
leaden hedge
everything else is 50% damage increase at max
solemn rivet
Thanks for all the suggestions!
I'll... See if I can figure out something for the damage numbers
Probably look into the health bar mod
solemn rivet
Also, on I'm going to make a list of all enemies in an area on level load, with their health, name and geo dropped
leaden hedge
as for elegant key, cant you just check setbool, print name to debug, then pickup elegant key
and see what it prints
rain cedar
Yeah, I did do that
It's hasWhiteKey
I had tried that already and it didn't work
I guess you can't have it in your inventory if the door is open already or something
rain cedar
Yeah good point, I'll set that false when giving the key
warped sinew
I like the hunters journal idea a lot for some reason
gives a reward for the grind
is it possible to lower the hp of the enemy that you complete? that way the knight is more "efficent" at killing them or something like that
leaden hedge
yes
warped sinew
i just really like the idea of the journal giving the player something
other than lore
also i agree that crits should do more damage
didnt seem to do much... but that is all balancing stuff
that will take time to perfect
dont worry too much about it, add features first
bleak robin
i know why this sounds familiar
warped sinew
balance nearer the end. (thats how TC do it)
bleak robin
this makes me think of the cards from super paper mario
leaden hedge
kinda hard to balance a feature, when features its balance depends upon isnt implemented yet
bleak robin
where if you got an enemies card you do more damage to that enemy
warped sinew
it makes sense tho right, its a hunters journal
completeing it should make you a better hunter
leaden hedge
you're cataloguing their weaknesses
warped sinew
yer
you could even go a step further and have like a shop at the hunter... and you can buy stuff with completed entries
like charm notches and stuff
solemn rivet
Yeah
One thing I really like though is having hidden effects of stats
For now, I'll work on implementing enemy hp/geo, int and a full stats Window instead of a simple one
leaden hedge
I think hidden stats might be better for that affects the game less than crit damage
like bonus geo pickups on luck
solemn rivet
Yeah
I also really like the idea of hunter's completion being useful
That's one idea I'd never had myself
leaden hedge
problem with making it give you bonus damage to stuff, after youve farmed
is your not gonna fight them again
probably, unless your just farming geo
solemn rivet
Yeah...
But some enemies get completed through normal Gameplay
For those it's worth it
Or instead I could make them drop more geo
Instead of having less hp
bleak robin
Apply fragile greed to them if they have completed hunter journal or something
rain cedar
Alright, I've got a debug mod remake in a good enough state that I posted it in the drive folder
Looks super fancy
Credit to @somber spear for the images and UI design
bleak robin
Dat GUI
rain cedar
Biggest things on the todo list right now are:
Proper input for dream gate warp names
Rebindable keys
But yeah, this isn't a Kein mod so we can host this freely
Really the only reason I remade this
marble scarab
Nice
rain cedar
I'm going to bed now because it's almost 8 in the morning, ping me if you have issues with it
Oh right also this uses the modding dll so it's 100% compatible with randomizer
buoyant obsidian
it's beautiful, great work man
royal ridge
Whoa that looks amazing
solemn rivet
this is amazing! Nice job!
young walrus
SICK
daring snow
Nice!
deep pilot
Does anyone here know how to create a modbundle where stuff is written to subdirectories?
Cause right now I have both the Debug and Randomizer dll files under the Managed/Mods folder and that causes both of them to be active at the same time when I'd prefer if there was a way to only activate one at a time without renaming the files.
The assembly-csharp file apparently loads whatever dll files are under the Managed/Mods folder, regardless of which mod you grab it from.
vale zenith
No it doesn't only the modding dll does
But noone but Sean and me gives a shit about it so some planned features like a menu to enable or disable mods aren't in
deep pilot
Well, what I meant is the modded assembly-csharp file grabs stuff under the Managed/Mods folder
Of course the unmodded version doesn't
vale zenith
...
deep pilot
It's just that both the Debug and the Randomizer come with a modded assembly-csharp that grabs all the dll files under the Managed/Mods folder
And it'd be nice if you don't have to always go to that folder and rename files to disable them if you only want one or another active
The mod loader that was written up a while back that uses .modbundle files was what I was hoping to use
vale zenith
There is a modding DLL that adds interfaces for modding
That is the dll that you have cause Sean's mods use it as well as mine
It will only load mods that implement the correct class to be loaded
Thanks discord geez
deep pilot
But I haven't figured out how to get the mod loader to add files into the Managed/Mods folder only while the mod is active
vale zenith
Well why don't you write support for that yourself?
I mean you expect other people to accommodate your wishes for free so they can't be that excessive right?
deep pilot
It's not like I haven't tried
I've edited the .json file in a way that should've loaded files into the correct place
But all it gives is an error message saying "make sure the game isn't running or run it with admin privileges"
vale zenith
Do you not get what I was saying earlier?
deep pilot
If you're saying I should straight up implement my own version of a mod loader, then I just don't have the skills
I was simply asking whether it was possible with the current mod loader
Or if the person who made the original one could add it as a feature
vale zenith
The mod loader is completely unrelated
The randomizer, debug and the modified glass souls mod all use a different system for loading
That's the only reason you can have multiple mods active at the same time
deep pilot
The whole reason I brought this up is because I'm using the mod loader to load the mods.
I'm just annoyed that when I load the Randomizer, because the files for the Debug are already in the Managed/Mods folder that mod loads as well
deep pilot
In the current state, loading the Randomizer => Randomizer + Debug and loading the Debug => Randomizer + Debug
All the other mods don't load the Debug and Randomizer cause they don't use the mod hook
vale zenith
Yeah no shit those are two of the three mods that use the better loading system
golden salmon
How does the bonfire mod interact with the Nailsmith?
deep pilot
Still doesn't solve the problem that the only current solution for having only one of the two active at a time is to go into that folder and rename the one you want disabled.
I'd have thought that the mod loader would allow for you to selectively add/remove files from that folder
vale zenith
Yeah tough luck
deep pilot
But if there is a way to do so, the documentation isn't there
vale zenith
Convince some people to port their fucking mods and writing a selector will be worth it
The mod loader is completely unrelated
deep pilot
Sigh
vale zenith
How often do I have to say it
deep pilot
The mod loader was supposed to be the way to allow for only one dll in the Managed/Mods to be written when you load in a mod
Cause I'm using the mod loader to load in mods
And revert back to the base game
vale zenith
🤦
deep pilot
I don't copy the files from the zip files into the folders cause then things get overwritten and you can lose track of which mods are active or not
I create custom .modbundle files so that the mod loader can just easily load/unload mods
vale zenith
Again
deep pilot
for the ones that don't have "official" ones
vale zenith
Unrelated to the modloader
deep pilot
You're still not getting my point
vale zenith
I get your point but its uninteresting and irrelevant
deep pilot
How is it irrelevant?
vale zenith
Because there are technical reasons for this
deep pilot
If the mod loader could only insert one file at a time, then only one mod would load
If I wanted both mods loaded at the same time, then I'd just manually put in both files
Cause the mod loader is designed only to have one mod active at a time
vale zenith
It's not designed that way it just replaces the dll so it can only ever have one mod
If it loads a dll that loads mods it has no influence over what gets loaded
deep pilot
There are other mods where it replaces assets files, so I thought it would have support over replacing other files under hollow_knight_data
vale zenith
Feel free to bother whoever write it
*wrote
That doesn't change that the mod loader is a bad solution to begin with that we wouldn't need if people made their mods properly
deep pilot
Well, I've seen several people say they feel strongly about mods being "not module-like"
vale zenith
Who cares about how they feel one option is objectively superior
dapper folio
vale zenith
it really doesn't
dapper folio
I don't have an opinion on mod loader versus not, but it's a good thing to keep in mind that HK modding isn't modular like minecraft or skyrim
vale zenith
Oh, how come?
@deep pilot I like how in your quote there the very first example is completely false now
dapper folio
debug works with other mods now?
deep pilot
Well, the new one works with the randomizer
Cause they were authored by the same person
vale zenith
yes, that's why @deep pilot is whining in the first place
bleak robin
I think I wanted to try blackmoth randomizer
vale zenith
Convince Gradow to tell us the hooks he needs and it might happen
yes, significantly more
deep pilot
Of course, them being authored by the same person means that they're likely to use the same hook method
dapper folio
Is it because the files that overlap in randomizer and debug are just the same file?
vale zenith
no it's because me and sean implemented modular modding
dapper folio
looking at their files, so the assembly is the same and allows for the dlls in the mods folder to work?
vale zenith
yes
dapper folio
so anyone who uses the same hooks would just need to make a dll. Nice
deep pilot
The real problem with modularity that I see in HK is that some mods clearly affect the same aspects of the game in different ways.
I'm not exactly seeing how the bonfire mod and the boss rush mod would work together
vale zenith
and if a new version comes out we just have to port the modding dll and not all mods
@deep pilot you are absolutely right, because some mods are incompatible we shouldn't ever be able to have multiple mods active at the same time
that's the sensible way to do things
deep pilot
With the modded version of the assembly-csharp file with the hook, you can have both the randomizer and the debug active at the same time though.
So I guess someone would have to come up with a list of which mods are compatible with one another?
vale zenith
Or you could just only enable one of a time and get the same functionality you so desperately seem to want
That's why having modular mods is obvjectively superior, if you only want one mod at a time you can do that, but you can do more
You can make some legitimate points about additional work being necessary to set up all necessary hooks for some mods, but that's negligible compared to having to port every mod with every update of the game
deep pilot
Eh, tbh I'm not desperate for the functionality that started the whole convo. I just brought it up here in case anyone knew of a way to do it with the current mod loader.
dapper folio
there, compatability list in the drive folder
It's literally just Sean's mods right now, but it's there for when/if other mods adopt the method
dapper folio
I didn't know you were part of it
deep pilot
Sean did say that you were a co-author to the mod
dapper folio
Sean contacted me about it and didn't mention another author. No github was mentioned. Link?
deep pilot
At least here in the discord
vale zenith
deep pilot
Also, you're credited in the readme for the randomizer Firzen 😛
dapper folio
I don't see everything in all the channels, Sean contacted me through direct message. And I don't read the readme's unless I'm unfamiliar with how the mod is installed
vale zenith
no worries
anyway, if more people port their stuff over it's worth the effort to detect (potential) incompatibilities and to add a menu ingame to enable and disable mods before starting a game
dapper folio
file and folder readme have been updated
vale zenith
thanks
deep pilot
I mean, besides the ones you've worked on there's what? Bonfire, Lightbringer, 110%, and Glass Soul?
vale zenith
I ported glass souls over already as a proof of concept
bleak robin
Randomizer
deep pilot
Randomizer already works
vale zenith
Bonfire, Lightbringer and Blackmoth
Gradow was gonna give us a list of stuff he needs for the mod and never did
then instead made a whole new mod without using the modding dll
deep pilot
Isn't there also the 110% mod by kcghost that's also still in use?
vale zenith
probably
civic hatch
All I will ever need, once Grim Trouppe is released and mods are actualized are:
-Bonfire Mod
-Randomizer
-Steelsoul mode
Perfect HK roguelite.
There is no way to add more charms then we have rn? (Not speaking of replacing, but straight adding, that then work with Randomizer)
vale zenith
You can probably add new charms, but they won't work with the Randomizer unless we extend it somehow
We make sure you can still reach everything so if stuff gets swapped with an unknown charm that we don't know the location of
it won't work
civic hatch
I see. Would be neat though. Because then you could add a huge amount of charms and make it something like BoI, just Hollow Knight style and no randomized maps
deep pilot
By the way, posting this here for the maker of the 110% mod in case they come by:
@gritty snow , your mod seems to be missing a logic change for getting potentially locked out of a relic in Beast's Den
Cause if you take the shortcut that gets you directly to the end and kill off Herrah, I don't think you can access the Hallownest Seal at the beginning right after you get trapped cause the bugs that trap you disappear.
civic hatch
What does 110% mod do btw?
deep pilot
Gives you 1% for each of the following:
Mr. Mushroom sidequest
Dung Lore
All journal + hunter's mark excepting 1 missable (Zote dead).
All ghosts excepting 1 missable (Cloth), and all Whispering Root Essence Orbs.
All dream bosses including Failed Champion, Lost Kin, Soul Tyrant, White Defender (5 defeats), and Grey Prince (10 defeats).
All rooms mapped and secret rooms visited.
All relics sold.
All cocoons found.
All geo rocks broken.
All secrets and breakable walls/floors found and broken.
These percentages unlock after you beat the true final boss
civic hatch
I see
bleak robin
That's way more then an extra 10%
solemn rivet
Firzen, it's not like I forgot about it or anything, it's more simple than that
I have no idea how to make a hook, or what hooks I would need
I know close to nothing about actually working with code
vale zenith
@solemn rivet if you tell me or sean where you changed stuff we can port them over for you
but I don't have the patience to hunt through the whole DLL to see what you changed
vale zenith
send it to me and sean and we'll port the mod(s?)
solemn rivet
As soon as I get home
vale zenith
no rush, I won't get to it till the weekend, but sean might
I do enough gamedev during the work week 😄
vale zenith
Been doing indie gamedev for a long time, got fulltime employed this month, so I'm maybe not the biggest authority
@civic hatch definitely not impossible, but afaik noone has added extra charms
civic hatch
kk :>
dapper folio
maybe once Troupe hits someone might figure it out?
vale zenith
I don't think it's that noone has figured it out
It wouldn't be very difficult I think, we can expand the playerData through reflection
@civic hatch actually, we don't even need extra rules in the randomizer aside from adding the name of the new charm, so from that side it wouldn't be much of an issue
civic hatch
NICE
what do we need to add new charms though?
vale zenith
add a new bool to the playerData class
and hook into whatever functions are changed by that charm
leaden hedge
you dont need to add a bool to playerData, you can just add a bool to another class and add that to the save
the main problem is the ui system is abstracted behind playmaker, so good luck editing the charms menu
vale zenith
If the goal is to make it more like BoO that isn't a main concern
*BoI
But Yeah, playmaker is a huge pain everywhere
civic hatch
welp RiP then
vale zenith
Just get rid of charm costs for the mod and auto equip on pickup
solemn rivet
so
I'm going to make a list of all enemies in an area when the area loads
that way I can test whether or not I'm hitting an enemy when it checks for crit effect
is there any smart ways of doing this?
what I'm planning to do is run a foreach and compare every enemy in the area with the corrent 2dcollider
is that stupid/not the most efficient way to do this?
leaden hedge
can't you do NailSlash.OnTriggerEnter2D, then check if the collided target has "health_manager_enemy" fsm
solemn rivet
yeah, I'm running this on NailSlash.OnTriggerEnter2D
oh, I didn't know I could just check that go for the "health_manager_enemy" fsm
thanks!
leaden hedge
I think
if ( (gameObject.layer == 11 || gameObject.layer == 17) ){
if(FSMUtility.LocateFSM(gameObject, "health_manager_enemy") != null || FSMUtility.LocateFSM(gameObject, "health_manager") != null ){
//code goes here
}
}
gets every enemy, and is the fastest
there might be a few false positives like hornets nail throw
rain cedar
For false positives you want to ignore:
Hornet Barb
Needle Tink
worm
Laser Turret
Deep Spikes
warped sinew
I think its been modded for any version
rain cedar
It's for any version that has the mod support dll
leaden hedge
they need to make the modding hooks in that assembly-csharp
rain cedar
Meaning not grimm troupe
warped sinew
Oh OK.
rain cedar
But there is someone working on a standalone version that gets inserted into the current dll using upm
I'll let you know if they finish it
warped sinew
Well it looks amazing
Maybe I'll send you the Grimm assembly so u can mod it for me to use. But I'm provably not allowed to lol
rain cedar
Yeah I can't imagine that doesn't break an nda
leaden hedge
hey sean do you know how I can add a hook into the modding api via dnspy
I want to test playmkerunity2dproxy, to add hitboxes to everything
rain cedar
Yeah, you need to add a new delegate for the event under the Modding namespace
Then an event for that delegate in ModHooks
Then a function that calls all functions in that event
Then call that function where you want the hook
Be sure to put a HookInfo attribute on the event
Easier to document in the future that way
fair rampart
quick note for Gradow; the mod documentation says
Nail Damage set to (5 + 2 x Upgrades)x(1.25 ^ log2(Strength))
1.25 ^ log2(Strength) can be simplified to Strength ^ 0.3219 😛
not exactly an important bug report, but maybe worth mentioning
leaden hedge
@rain cedar when ever I try to edit ModHooks class it gives me Duplicate CompilerGenerated attribute, is that normal
I've just been deleting them but its pretty annoying
rain cedar
I don't have that issue
leaden hedge
do you get Language.GetInternal isn't a member of Language
rain cedar
Yes, I get that one
leaden hedge
and have to do Language.Language.GetInternal
rain cedar
Yeah
leaden hedge
hmmmmm
dapper folio
I see london, I see france
I see this bug's hitbox
hazy sentinel
that doesn't even rhyme
dapper folio
don't judge me
rain cedar
Uploaded a new version of randomizer that I think mostly fixes the dream nail/gate
There's some weirdness with it in the seer room and the room you go into the dream nail scene from
But eh, those rooms don't really have anything you need dream nail for in them, anyway
@young walrus
rain cedar
It doesn't change the randomization at all, so at the very least it won't mess things up
No guarantees it'll fix your dream gate, though
young walrus
Lol. Fair
dapper folio
<@&328354344313421825> Just a reminder, if you'd like editing access to the Mods drive folder, just send me a message. This offer stands for any other Modders making mods for this game as well.
rain cedar
Wait I might've done something really dumb with that randomizer build
Let me double check something
Nah it's good
Thought I might have made it randomize the seed when loading a save on accident
dapper folio
woops
dapper folio
there
finite herald
hey guys, I've been out for a while
anyone could give me some updates about the whole modding situation?
like maybe new mods, updates to boss rush maybe?
future content?
hazy sentinel
boss rush is dead
also bonfire mod
also there's a moddable dll w/ hooks, only mods based on it are a new debug mod and randomizer mod atm
finite herald
hmm sounds nice, hopefully someone will do a boss rush eventually, it was pretty fun. The bonfire mod sounds amazing
I'll be trying it tomorrow
solemn rivet
@fair rampart yeah, but I don't like approximations - although I'm quite aware the code itself is using approximations all the time, I prefer to express the formulas as closed and "precise" as possible
because log2(1.25) != 0.3219
not only that, but putting the variable inside the log, instead of outside, gives the user an instant feel that this function "stabilizes" at some point
fair rampart
the approximation point is fair enough
fair rampart
personally, x^0.32 is definitely easier to understand than the bigger formula
(for me)
fair rampart
like, as a player I was trying to figure out how good is it going to be to invest in the thing
and staring at the first formula gave me nothing
buoyant obsidian
What's the topic?
hazy sentinel
formulas
buoyant obsidian
for what stat
solemn rivet
this formula: (5 + 2 x Upgrades)x(1.25 ^ log2(Strength))
fair rampart
is nail damage in the Bonfire mod
solemn rivet
Dancer's point (and they do have a fair point) is that we could simplify the rightmost side to strength^0.3219
buoyant obsidian
Why not +5% of strength or something
fair rampart
because diminishing returns (partially)
solemn rivet
^
buoyant obsidian
oh yeah
fair rampart
I mean, there already is little reason to not spam strength :V
leaden hedge
dex is probably the best stat
solemn rivet
well
solemn rivet
I think dex and luck will be the op combo
specially considering the newly implemented crit mechanics
and geo drops based off of luck
hazy sentinel
who needs geo drops when you have infinite relics
leaden hedge
solemn rivet
wow
leaden hedge
they don't even use boxes
solemn rivet
ds2's got nothing on HK
leaden hedge
its miles off too
hazy sentinel
what do you mean
leaden hedge
look at where the swing actually is
its behind him during this frame
but its still hitting by his knees
solemn rivet
oh
hazy sentinel
TC probably just copied the same hitbox for every frame of the swing animation
solemn rivet
okay
changed crit animation to shadow ring
but the lack of audio makes the crit feel so less... Powerful
rain cedar
Why not add a sound, then?
buoyant obsidian
^
solemn rivet
but if I do add a sound, then what's the point? Wasn't it the sound that people were complaining was distracting?
buoyant obsidian
Are you doing anything to charms in this mod?
leaden hedge
graig had the idea of being able to level them up
solemn rivet
to have the nailsmith upgrade charms
buoyant obsidian
Oh my god
solemn rivet
yup
buoyant obsidian
Like in Ratchet and Clank
young walrus
RANDOMIZE THEM
buoyant obsidian
that's an awesome idea
solemn rivet
more like Andre in dark souls, but sure
young walrus
Stacking mods ftw
leaden hedge
I was thinking, make it a reward for journal
every entry you complete gives you a point to spend on your charms
solemn rivet
omg
KDT what if instead of a point to spend in charms (because there are way more enemies than charms), journal completion gives you... A free level
like a Black Pearl in S&S
leaden hedge
ah thats were you're wrong kiddo
multiple levels
and more expensive charms need more points*
solemn rivet
make it like titanite in DkS
so lv 1 requires 1 point, lv2 requires 2 points, lv3 requires 3 points
and have each dreamer give you a special item which allows for one charm to go to lv4
makes the dreamers worth something
leaden hedge
I was think like 3 levels, rank 1 / 2 / 3 would be basic scaling but rank 4 would add a new mechanic
i.e. dashmaster rank 1/2/3 is just faster dashes
but rank 4 lets you dash up
young walrus
So like... A jump?
solemn rivet
so, you're saying I'm going to have to figure out how to make a decent updashing animation?
ugh
young walrus
leaden hedge
well you can't double jump then dash up
you run out of jumps
fragile greed could make you deal more damage the more geo you have
but you lose it all on death 100%
solemn rivet
in blackmoth you can chain dashes, but not chain updashes
another thing before I go
to anyone who has played/seen someone play the bonfire mod:
do you think the geo/level curve is too steep?
specially considering that enemies now have more HP (at game start, every enemy's HP is multiplied by 1.2, then it increases up until a certain point - which I haven't decided yet - for each dreamer you defeat)
for instance, I got to hornet1 with only getting 3 levels
and I only skipped Mawlek
maybe by that point the knight should have something like 5 or 6 levels?
buoyant obsidian
Perhaps make leveling less effective but more frequent?
not that I've tested it
I'm just saying I like to level up a bunch early on
solemn rivet
yeah, I kinda feel that way too
for now, most curves I'm using to model the stat grow are designed taking 20 as the "endpoint", ie., the softcap
buoyant obsidian
What do they start at?
solemn rivet
maybe I should stretch it so that levels cost less, but the softcap is now around 40
every stat starts at 1
and at 1, everything in game is as it should
crit%=0, naildamage=5 etc.
leaden hedge
HMMM
buoyant obsidian
It wouldn't be a bad idea to make the player starting stats lower than usual
From personal experience I like games where I start off feeling weak as hell and progressively get stronger
solemn rivet
that's a nice idea
not only make enemies stronger, but make the player weaker
well, I gotta go now
I have classes early tomorrow
buoyant obsidian
Keep up the good work
young walrus
so if i have both the debug and randomizer mod in the same game directory
if i just rename the mod .dll for one of them, it'll turn it off?
leaden hedge
I think you have to move it out of the mods folder
young walrus
so for example, i changed "DebugMod.dll" to "DebugModoff.dll"
i suppose i could just launch the game and see if it's off
derp
deep pilot
I wonder if renaming it by changing the file extension would do the trick
rain cedar
It tries to load every file in the mods folder
I just have a subfolder that I move things to when I don't want them
young walrus
that's just a bit smarter
rain cedar
A way to disable/enable mods in game is on the to do list for sure
rain cedar
You can probably set the timescale to 0 during a slide to get the speed easily
Also for reference, superdash speed is 30
Dash is 20
Regular movement is 8.3
rain cedar
It changes the state of your kingsoul charm
young walrus
oh i c
rain cedar
0 is nothing, 1/2 are the halves, 3 is kingsoul, 4 is void heart
rain cedar
Nice
young walrus
hmm... killing an enemy resets the time speed i have set
young walrus
yeah. interesting.
that must be what allows super slides
you pause at the exact moment the game is resetting the game speed
i can't even get this to work with timescale 0
lol
shadow hare
o-o so, I'm not sure how to get around this issue: lightbringer doesn't wanna work with the mod installer, it says that i need either to make sure the game isn't running (it's not), or that I'm running in admin mode (which I am)
leaden hedge
do you have a vanilla csharp
shadow hare
Yep, looks like I’m doing it manually.
shadow hare
related note, tfw running NMG has ruined me to the normal path of the game
warped sinew
@solemn rivet more levels more frequently is WAY better
Just make them less effective
warped sinew
Also if u can make a passive system that would be great
Like 5 passives
Get choose one at each 20 levels
But have like 20 to choose from
leaden hedge
sort of like fallout perks
warped sinew
Yup
Again more customisability
More "builds"
also more interesting build other than just stats
E.G "charmer perk"
get 5 notches
"nail master" increase nail range
leaden hedge
well I was hoping to get gradow to add charm leveling and then unique effects at max charm level
leaden hedge
stuff like fragile greed, would give you more damage for more geo, but if you died you lost all geo
warped sinew
yup
leaden hedge
but a passive perk system could work instead of leveling charms
warped sinew
these ideas would all work really well
the mod would become better than the actual game lol
this is what i mean by dont worry about balance, think of a set of features first
then we balance later. (keep balance in mind tho)
you could even scale enemy HP off player level
insead of a point in the game
or you could do both
anyways... just ideas for now
leaden hedge
yeah, I mean obviously theres problems with scaling enemies with levels, in that when you level you expect to get stronger relatively
but it'd probably depend on the numbers
warped sinew
maybe i should just tell TC to make an RPG edit of the game lol fuck it
they wont though heh too lazy!
leaden hedge
gotta get official boss rush first
warped sinew
heh yer
also @solemn rivet I played your mod again today
just stacked strength and it was super OP compared to crit
crit def needs to be better i think
leaden hedge
you only have like a 45% chance to deal 70% more damage so its only 30% more damage
and even when you do it crit it doesn't feel good
warped sinew
yup
i was thinking of adding the damage formulas into excel
and seeing what combo gives best dps
but i dont think it even matters, pretty sure pure STR is best
maybe a mix of DEX and STR
but leaning towards STR
leaden hedge
str basically 2.5x your damage
I think dex at max gives you 4x damage
13 base damage at 1 str
(5 + 2 x Upgrades)x(1.25 ^ log2(Strength)) at 20str = 33
33/13 = 2.53
2.7/(1 + 1.82 x e^(-0.08 x Dexterity)) at 20dex = 0.27
1 / 0.27 = 3.7
so 10str and then just spam dex is probably the best
warped sinew
is dex giving damage or DPS?
cos a lot of the time in HK you can only get a hit in once a second from pogo/moving around
its actually quite rare to be able to just stand and smash away
thats why attack speed is good, but its way more effective to have nail damage. IMO
civic hatch
why not both?
warped sinew
yeah i mix of both is best thats true, KDT already polinted that out
i think this is what u want for max effectiveness
reach a point where with F.strength on you are one shotting 90% of the enemies in the game
then pump it all into attack speed
for boss rape
effectively once you are one shotting enemies it makes little difference
hazy sentinel
what about 86% of the enemies in the game
warped sinew
to have more damage
86% , nah man
you wont clear trail fast enough, jeeze what a noob
civic hatch
Is there a possibility to make some enemies recolored and more bulkier? :^)
leaden hedge
you mean like champions in BoI
civic hatch
Exactly
leaden hedge
next patch is increasing health across the board
and increasing health for every dreamer
civic hatch
Amazing
rain cedar
@solemn rivet I got Blackmoth working with the modding dll
Guess I'll upload the assembly-csharp for mods separately to the drive now that there's not just my mods using it
leaden hedge
oh btw @rain cedar if I've added a hook what should I do with it
rain cedar
Well there's no source control and we've got diverging builds now
So I dunno
How much did you add?
rain cedar
There's the one I have
It would be more work to add the stuff I added back in
So you should re-add your hook to that one and send it back to me
Sorry about that
leaden hedge
np ill do that in a sec
rain cedar
Well, guess I'll play through the blackmoth build I made a bit to see if it works properly for everything
Didn't do very extensive testing on it
leaden hedge
hmm, what should I call it
it technically hooks into a proxy class, but it effectively gives you a reference to every entity that has a collider, which is pretty much anything you can hit or get hit by
rain cedar
Doesn't really matter too much what you name it
As long as it somewhat makes sense
Put the code for the Blackmoth port here:
https://github.com/seanpr96/Blackmoth/blob/master/Blackmoth/BlackmothMod.cs
It's a bit hideous because I used reflection to access private fields
leaden hedge
I think this should work
rain cedar
Alright, I'll upload that to the drive
I took the assembly out of the randomizer and debug uploads as well
Easier to keep it up to date on there if there's only one
So anyone wanting to use those mods has to download the modding api dll as well
leaden hedge
shouldn't the randomizer generate a new seed everytime you clear save @rain cedar
ushbeti isn't get a random seed except on first load
rain cedar
He doesn't have the newest version, then
I already fixed that
Hm, something made the dash damage stop working until after I quit
Does that ever happen with the normal blackmoth or is that a bug I introduced?
leaden hedge
I remember reports of that in normal blackmoth
solemn rivet
And I still have no idea why...
Btw, thank you again seanpr!
@warped sinew thanks! I'll start making a list of features to add!
rain cedar
I'll leave it to you to add the dll to the drive in whatever way you want since it's still your mod
solemn rivet
I honestly believe the modding api to be the way to go
But I have classes right now, so I will be away from my PC
leaden hedge
modding api is nice because you actually get to write commented code in your ide of choice
rain cedar
Yeah
I didn't comment debug mod at all because I'm an idiot
But randomizer has good comments
robust kiln
is the randomizer version in the google drive the current one?
rain cedar
Yes
leaden hedge
yes
robust kiln
ok
rain cedar
Small fix to action queueing
Need the updated modding dll from the drive as well for the full fix
solemn rivet
What's that fix, sean?
rain cedar
You would get a normal dash if the input was queued instead of a sharp shadow one
rain cedar
So, unintentional feature of blackmoth
Updash makes room duping way easier and possible in a lot more places
bleak robin
Blackmoth speedrunning 👀
rain cedar
Also jump + updash gets me high enough to get a hard landing
I feel like it probably shouldn't give you that much height
bleak robin
Those big dashes are amazing
wispy root
So I just got dreamgate in a randomizer run, and I think it breaks some stuff
young walrus
do you have the most recent version?
wispy root
I can't set a dreamgate, and grave warriors don't appear
young walrus
Sean updated it last night cuz dream gate didn't work for me
you haven't gone through the dream sequence yet
that's why
wispy root
Yeah, I got it yesterday
wispy root
Guess I'll redownload then
rain cedar
@solemn rivet I can consistently break the sharp shadow effect by dashing into false knight's geo chest
wispy root
ok, it fixed the problem
but now I have another problem, I'm stuck in CoT's left side without mantis claw or double jump
wispy root
I can't get up to the gate, one sec
young walrus
you get there with super dash?
wispy root
rain cedar
Oh, I didn't realize there wasn't elevators all the way up
wispy root
Yeah, I superdashed there
rain cedar
Is there a platform in that scene?
If so I could make copies of it so that is scalable
I'm doing the same thing after soul master
wispy root
young walrus
how?
rain cedar
Wait for the animation where you fall asleep
Then press any button, then inventory
You'll get off the bench with menu open
young walrus
makes sense
rain cedar
Before current patch
young walrus
yeah, but like just now, i didn't know you could interrupt that animation til you mentioned it
you're right though, the 3 of us are kinda the glitch bank or knowledge
rain cedar
Well, I'm too lazy to create proper documentation of the glitches
If I was gonna document any game it would be Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel
Because I'm the only person who knows anything about that game
Kinda sucks for anyone who wants to run it, I imagine
young walrus
it wouldn't even be full documentation i don't think. just like.... a list of everything possible
then we can document the exact steps for all of em later
rain cedar
We don't even really know how to do everything, though
Like getting invuln from baldur shell
young walrus
like for this one
-storage on waking up on bench
-focus storage
-fireball storage
-backwards slide fireball storage
-inventory drop
-super slide
-elevator glitch
-room duping
etc etc
rain cedar
I see
young walrus
just so we have a comprehensive list of all glitches
cuz like... if i'm looking for more stuff. knowing that you can storage off the waking up animation is super helpful
anyway. i think this convo belongs somewhere not in modding. imma start a spreadsheet of just raw info
bored at work today anyways
rain cedar
Alright
Sounds like a plan
And a lot of the time conversations end up where they shouldn't be because they evolve naturally from something that was on topic
Don't worry about it
young walrus
plus adding possible patches to this list would be good knowledge to have too
wispy root
Is the compass included in the randomizer pool on this version?
rain cedar
No
Mickely pointed that out but I forgot
It'll take like 10 seconds to add it, hang on
wispy root
ok, and I'm assuming isma's tear is still problematic to include in the pool?
rain cedar
young walrus
yeah. that'd be fun to add. I think it's not possible b/c it would remove the item in it's actual location if you picked it up elsewhere?
rain cedar
Use that and compass should be randomized
Isma's Tear is problematic for similar reasons to why dream nail caused problems
young walrus
ooh. so is there a way around it?
rain cedar
Kinda
The way I've "fixed" dream nail causes weirdness with it in the seer room and the room with the dreamer statues
Which I don't think matters at all
young walrus
what kind of weirdness
rain cedar
Like you can't use dream gate while in the seer room even if you have it
Unless you have the 900 essence reward
For Isma's Tear it matters a bit more because there's acid in the room you get the pickup from
But anyway, there's some fsm event that is getting sent that turns acid into water
I just need to figure that out and I can get isma's tear in for real
young walrus
probably would add some more logic work too since that opens a couple things up
rain cedar
Yeah
I want to rework the structure of the xml anyway
Good time to look over things and make changes
young walrus
the logic seems pretty good so far though. so long as you don't glitch and sequence break it right now. lol
but you can usually "fix" it with more glitches
rain cedar
What a cheater
young walrus
solemn rivet
@leaden hedge the check for health_manager is breaking the crit effect
solemn rivet
no, it's not that
crit effect simply broke all of a sudden
ffs
phew, fixed it
the audio effect I was using somehow managed to screw everything up
bleak robin
Hey Gradow, I gotta ask, in blackmoth, what exactly does getting mothwing cloak do
I think it makes dashes faster and a bit longer?
solemn rivet
Yeah
bleak robin
Cause I wanted to see how fast I can beat blackmoth any%, but I don't know if going for mothwing cloak would save or waste time
solemn rivet
Best thing would be to rush Longnail and MoP, quicknail and fragile strength
And dashmaster for skips
bleak robin
im talking any% not 100%
i cant get that many notches
does shade cloak go through elder baldurs? i don't think ive ever tried
solemn rivet
You don't have to equip all at once
Long, quick and dashmaster for movement /skips, fstrength for bosses
dapper folio
have any mods been updated?
warped sinew
@solemn rivet so I was thinking more about journal grinding and thought it would be cool if you changed all entries to 100
solemn rivet
Oh?
warped sinew
Then each time u kill an enemy you get 1% extra damage
For a total of double damage vs that enemy at journal completion
solemn rivet
Troublesome, but doable
warped sinew
Then u could have a perk that gives double percent something like "hunter" perk
Anyways just thinking about stuff
solemn rivet
no, thank you for all the suggestions!
sadly, passives and perks aren't really on top of my list right now
but the journal completion is serioulsy good
solemn rivet
so, I'm gonna release a new patch
bleak robin
btw gradow, quickdash also requires that i get desolate dive
which requires me to go through soul sanctum also
its either soul sanctum and part of kingdoms edge, or just grab crystal heart
also did you edit fragile strength to work on dashes?
cause i don't think it does normally
solemn rivet
I did
latest patch should have it
I simply added a check that multiplies dash damage by 1.5 if you have it equipped
so, here it is:
This patch includes:
Enemies HP increased from the get-go;
Enemies' HP increases with progression;
Dropped geo increases with Luck;
New (visual) effect for crits;
Changed damage and % formula for crits;
Added option to respec;
Minor fixes.
oh
solemn rivet
forgot to add: geo/level reduced in order to level up faster, but with rewards also reduced
no, there's not
hazy sentinel
is there a drm-free dll of the newest patch
solemn rivet
when I have some free time, I'll make a nice icon and a modbundle
@hazy sentinel working on it as we speak
sorry, I mostly work editing the steam ver
after that I have to add the changes to the drmfree ver
hazy sentinel
understanda🅱le
hazy sentinel
uhhh the levels are carrying over to new saves in the same slot
ok restarting the game fixes it
solemn rivet
wait
I thought I fixed that
brb
umm...
it -should- be fixed
{
(...)
this.playerData.Reset();
this.sceneData.Reset();
this.modData.Reset();
Debug.Log("Save file cleared.");
(...)
}
well, it worked for me
reset a test save with 15 luck
btw, because of crit changes, crit% at luck lv1 is negative
I'm gonna change this, but this does not affect gameplay so it's not a huge issue right now, just ulgy to look at
reset another test save with 15 luck and res
leaden hedge
did you disable tuk?
solemn rivet
no
but not like it's an issue anyway
there are too many rancids even without tuk
I'll make it cost more and more every time you respec
solemn rivet
ideally, respec would give you some sort of expendable points to invest in stats, instead of raw geo
as it is, you can get your geo back, buy stuff on stores and invest whatever's left of it
solemn rivet
yeah
but that's a worry for another time
I'll probably spend all day tomorrow coding
yay
leaden hedge
port it over to the api
warped sinew
So does wisdom give spell damage?
leaden hedge
int should, I assume its coming next patch
solemn rivet
Yup, int is next patch
I'm still getting used to working with fsm
Sorry
Also, does anyone know how to make a GUI element stay on screen for a set amount of time?
leaden hedge
theres several ways
you could just make a class that draws it
on start set a variable to current time
then check on update if current time - start time is greater than whatever then destroy self
civic hatch
we need more Grubs replaced by mimics
wispy root
@rain cedar Are you sure you added the compass?
rain cedar
Never bothered to change the xml in the drive because it's so minor, but yeah if you use the one I posted here it should be in there
wispy root
Yeah I dunno.. I got compass for the 3rd time now
I replaced the xml files, is there anything else I had to do?
wispy root
rain cedar
You sure you're using the xml I posted? Looks like it's not even trying to randomize compass and I don't see why that would be the case
wispy root
pretty sure..
or actually, one sec
I think I might have switched the wrong thing .. let me test again
rain cedar
Seems to be working for me
wispy root
Ok, apparently I brain farted a bit, everything works properly
rain cedar
Cool
wide pier
nice
solemn rivet
this should work... Right?
this.block.SetColor(this.heroCtrl.shadowRingPrefab.gameObject.name, new Color(1f, 0f, 0f));
private MaterialPropertyBlock block;
rain cedar
Try it and you'll know
buoyant obsidian
I could never change any property of shadowringprefab
solemn rivet
I managed to un-break it
but it's still the same color
753 you might know this: I tried using a PlayOneShot to play a sound effect when critting, but it simply broke the whole crit happening at all
how did you manage to make it work?
rain cedar
If it's breaking put in a try catch block and print out the error somewhere
buoyant obsidian
I just replaced the file for grubberfly sounds in resources.assets
Grubberfly's elegy is too loud in vanilla, nobody notices because nobody uses it
solemn rivet
no errors, no exceptions, nothing... It not only does not play any audio, it also stops the visual effect from applying as well
buoyant obsidian
where are you loading the sound from?
solemn rivet
I've changed it since
but it was this:
this.heroCtrl.shadowRingPrefab.transform.SetScaleX(0.5f);
this.heroCtrl.shadowRingPrefab.transform.SetScaleY(0.5f);
UnityEngine.Object.Instantiate(this.heroCtrl.shadowRingPrefab, otherCollider.gameObject.transform.position, base.transform.rotation);
UnityEngine.Object.Instantiate<AudioSource>(this.hac.nailArtReady);```hac is HeroAudioController()
solemn rivet
Okay, I give up