They don't
#archived-modding-development
tribal nexus
finite herald
@fair rampart is the new version ready?
Lol
Just one time haha
Does it have the total time at the end?
Amazing
You are a god
I will try it in like 1 hour
Is the no rewards possible to complete?
like, what about the abilities?
tribal nexus
Dashing is not an important ability for beating the game. Get off of your crutches /s
finite herald
But what about radiance?
You need shadow cloak
For the laser
Not sure if any other boss requires an ability
finite herald
Awesome
tribal nexus
The radiance fight is known for its complex walljumping
Also since you don't get auto upgrades does that mean you're going to be fighting radiance with the old nail?
tribal nexus
You only need to hit it 425 times
finite herald
You need shadowcloak and wall jump @for radiance
So i guess you wont add double jump, right?
Wall jump instead of double jump to make it more challenging?
heavy geyser
You could iframe the sun beam with dive spell
heavy geyser
The higher you start the dive the better i thinj
finite herald
They are not allowed but at least somw abilities must be allowed depending on the sifficulty they want to make it
Like you need either double jump or wall jump
And you need either shadow cloak or dive
rain cedar
@fair rampart I stuck around after Soul Master to get dive free but it's still in the shop
No descending dark
heavy geyser
Just git gud RNG and hope Radiance doesn't use it
tribal nexus
Yes because out of the time you take to do 425 nail hits radiance will never use that attack
nvm it's 340 hits
I thought the old nail did 4 damage
heavy geyser
Win the lottery first, then try Radiance
tribal nexus
So yeah it's totally viable
I can't even beat radiance with top level stuff
so obviously I'll win with nothing
okay I beat radiance once
but I'm also garbage at this game
Only died 25 times. Man I am just so great /s
This time makes sense.
Good mod though!
This isn't the new version
rain cedar
Cool
finite herald
@fair rampart it's more difficult in a way right now, I didnt complete the whole thing, Markoth got me with my build haha, but I think it's better now, maybe you should lower the price of certain things, but overall I think is almost perfect
by the way, let's say I don't have dash but I have the shadow cloak
do i get dash or I need the normal dash?
ok, got it
rain cedar
I can't hit my shade after dying at collector either
One of the falling jar things got me
It probably doesn't matter how you die
Yeah
That's what I was thinking
Oh I'm stuck
I went down to check for my shade
In the love tower, I mean
But I don't have wall jump and I can't warp out
finite herald
did you change the non stop mode kein?
dusk remnant
@fair rampart i already talked to you about the unkillable shade it happens when you kill the collector with flukenest or defender crest or spore shroom its a vanilla glitch
oh ok than i got 2 glitches at a time i thought the 2 were connected
then
robust kiln
how do you install the boss rush mod? do you just replace the Assembly-CSharp or is there anything else?
finite herald
@fair rampart did you release another update to fix the collector?. And Yeah about the non stop, I meant the thing about being able to purchase/get whatever you want without starting. Are you gonna do it like that?
What other people think about the price of upgrades/charms?
dusk remnant
@fair rampart i still really like the mode where you get the spells and stuff from bosses can you leave it in as an easy mode?
fair rampart
hey, this isn't on the moddb page, is there documentation somewhere for nail damage in Glass Soul?
I know base damage is buffed from 8 to 5, but I don't know how much extra damage masks and upgrades give
hazy sentinel
base damage is buffed from 8 to 5
hazy sentinel
no it's 8 to 5 get with the program
buoyant obsidian
so with default 5 masks, you gain +1 damage
buoyant obsidian
yep
fair rampart
thank yuo
tribal nexus
@fair rampart you should probably make the charm notches a bit cheaper in the shop. It seems like it costs too much to even get to use any charms.
rain cedar
I think charm notches are fine if you're willing to overcharm
Buying three notches lets you use shaman stone + soul eater + spell twister
Which is a ridiculously powerful combo
tribal nexus
I'm doing a no soul run
rain cedar
Well you don't have to use those specific charms, that's just an example
You can overcharm melee ones
I mean buying only a single notch would be enough for FS + quick slash
tribal nexus
Honestly I forgot overcharming is a thing, which is a good point, but it still seems a bit difficult to get charm slots. At least when you consider that you also probably want health and mobility
Yeah they are kinda low
rain cedar
They do seem a bit all over
False Knight is 300 but then it takes you Gruz + Hornet to get the remaining 200 for fireball
tribal nexus
I tried to do a randomized boss run and I pretty much got stuck since I was fighting pretty tough bosses with 6 masks and mark of pride
although it didn't help that i lost ~400 geo to collector because windows decided it wanted to tab me out to update
Yeah the first few bosses are fine for geo
rain cedar
I feel like False Knight + Gruz should be at least enough to buy fireball
It's really weird not having fireball for Hornet
Maybe you could make vengeful spirit less but shade soul more
So it's still the same cost to get shade soul but you can have vengeful spirit earlier
tribal nexus
For refrence the upgrades I have at the Markoth fight are:
1 mask
Shade cloak (and dash)
Monarch Wings
Coiled Nail
2 Notch Slots
Mark of Pride and Joni's Blessing
At the moment I have 1430 geo
buoyant obsidian
I like the idea of having what you would naturally have at that point in the game
tribal nexus
Second time this has happened. First one was on soul master (said 533 geo, I got 400), second was on collector. Both times I had 0 geo going into the fight. IIRC I was on 1 hp left on the soul master fight too. @fair rampart
rain cedar
Hm, since the points are geo would fragile greed give more points?
tribal nexus
I don't have fragile greed on, and I got less geo than points, but if you meant hypothetically I'm not sure.
rain cedar
Yeah I just meant hypothetically
tribal nexus
I earned 960 points and only got 720 geo
Collector and soul master
both times I got 75% of the geo displayed
Yes.
This was in the same run.
I didn't have a shade for the soul master fight though.
but iirc I was at one hp when I won the fight.
That fight was collector.
But this has happened twice
both times it gave me 75% of the geo listed.
Yes.
What was the issue?
rain cedar
Probably just *.75 instead of *1.75
tribal nexus
You can get desolate dive if you go into the soul tyrant fight
Okay. Well I'll make sure to abuse it in this no soul run.
Sounds good! Thanks for working so diligently on the mod :)
Well thanks for working hard on the mod. It's been pretty fun. Albeit a bit frustrating to be fighting bosses while pretty undergeared
But hey having to fight against bosses in tough circumstances does help me improve.
finite herald
I think uumuu should be later?
Its kinda boring to kill him with nail, it's not too bad tho
Overall i think is ok as is
tribal nexus
uumuu is a boring boss anyways, but yeah it would be nice if you could have a few more upgrades before you fought them.
I beat soul tyrant and then it comes up with "Next up: Soul Tyrant"
Did the same thing with lost kin. It fixes if you use the dream gate (It sends you back to the hub, but then it corrects the boss). Also you can't pause the game (inventory works though)
tribal nexus
Nice :)
finite herald
@fair rampart you think you will release the new update today? or most likely some other day?
finite herald
\I think moss is harder than false knight lmao, jk
i would do gruzz false knight moss
but yeah, I think gruz is easier than fk
or at least faster to kill at early game
tribal nexus
Gruz should definitely be first
finite herald
and I think Broken vessel is super easy, you think it should be that far in the game?
warped sinew
goes up by 50 after each comobes boos
something like that
it could just be a bonus (+50) in a new line of text
*boss
nice
tribal nexus
Are you actually supposed to finish off hollow knight? or do you just go to the radiance fight as normal?
But I'm assuming you can kill hollow knight and still go to the radiance fight afterwards?
warped sinew
oh i noticed when i played it that you are using the fast boss fight start animations, but for some bosses you didnt
did you forget some bosses?
tribal nexus
^Soul master
warped sinew
i cant remember which ones
warped sinew
ahh righto
nah i was just wondering
its not a big deal
yeah he does
im fairly sure.... I havent died to him in a LONG time
rain cedar
Is there any way to get God Tamer into the boss rush or is that not really possible without fighting all of arena 3?
Ok
Soul Master is already very fast and easy where he is imo
warped sinew
kein is there a way i can help? I can run thru the trial fairly fast and i dont mind doing it
can i collect data for the scene some how?
tribal nexus
Dung is easier though imo
rain cedar
Traitor Lord has literally only two attacks
One of them you jump over
One of them you stand still
He's like the easiest boss in the game
flint timber
can I use this boss rush mode without fucking up my save
warped sinew
so this is that story of the "boss" taitor lord. is was origially going to just be a bunch of mantis lords and cloth helps
hazy sentinel
mantis lords
warped sinew
but near release that didnt like it so very quickly made a big one
hazy sentinel
or mantis traitors
warped sinew
so traitor lord is kinda lacking
tribal nexus
Honestly wouldn't be terrible to have them after uumuu
Or you could put it after where traitor lord is moved to
rain cedar
Soul Master is #7 hardest on there
tribal nexus
Crystal guardian 2 is really easy?
tribal nexus
Mantis lords is super easy
rain cedar
Yeah
tribal nexus
You can pretty easily beat them with 0 upgrades honestly
flint timber
I hope its not true that the watcher knights are rly 6
rain cedar
That one makes sense to me
flint timber
was my 4th bossfight in the game today
and it was annoying yes
but actually
they only have 3 attacks
so
tribal nexus
Nosk is harder than brooding mawlek
rain cedar
This was before Nosk got the new attacks, though
tribal nexus
Oh okay
rain cedar
And Nosk was a fucking joke
flint timber
Hornet was for me way harder to read then the watcher knights actually
tribal nexus
then again so is everything because I don't have enough geo to have reasonable upgrades
tribal nexus
Crystal guardian 2 is actually just a facetank boss though
like just equip joni's blessing and spam attacks it's dumb
finite herald
I remember that i couldn dodge crystal guardian 2 lasers
now I can do it easily
love that 😄
tribal nexus
Yeah
flint timber
2 much spoilers it seems xD
tribal nexus
I remember I had a lot of trouble with Crystal Guardian 1. But I also was using the old nail still at the point, also in case it wasn't obvious I am garbage
flint timber
but i was expecting I'm missing a boss in the crystal stuff, and i also was expecting lazors
so
flint timber
guys, its my first playthrough right now, I only did like 4 bosses, Gruz Mother, False Knight, Hornet, Watcher Knights, and this soul mage, oh and broken vessel. Am I not far into the game or are all these bosses hidden?
tribal nexus
I have been fighting failed champion for like an hour
finite herald
hmhmhm, i would say every playthrough is different
you probably missed some hidden bosses
tribal nexus
I'm impressed you manage to avoid doing mantis lords
finite herald
yeah, every playthrough is different, I have a friend wh ohasnt killed mantis lords either
tribal nexus
I can do that pretty easily now
tribal nexus
But back then I remember I had to wall climb into the corner, which forced them to do the disk attack so I could heal
flint timber
I'm just checking where I actually need to go, I realised there are 2 open ways (one down a hole , and one littel up) wich I didnt visit yet
so probably I will find these lords there
finite herald
maybe :d go explore!
tribal nexus
Yeah, you'll find them eventually
finite herald
but yeah, I think failed champion without cheesing it, is probably the hardest boss
although it depends, I still think flukemarm old nail it's a nightmare lol, i will try it one day
flint timber
for me the broken vessel was vor example harder than the watcher knights
finite herald
but seems like impossible
flint timber
on t he watcher knights I allways knew what to do - I might fail at executing it - but i knew what to do- on the vessel it was like meh
didnt allways knew what was comming
finite herald
hmhmh, i love fighting against the watcher knights, it's a pretty fun and intense fight, especially without much upgrades
in my experience, broken vessel is easy
i can manage to kill him with no damage most of the time
flint timber
I checked the fight after beating it once on youtube - and it seems like I'm in generell hell of underleveld. They all kill it so fast
finite herald
even without much upgrades, the broken vessel pattern is not that hard imo
but if you have beaten only like 5 nosses
you still have a long way, you'll find some that can represent a challenge
flint timber
I'm plainyg alot in the air - and was fucked by not realising when he is actually jumping
finite herald
hopefully Kein can add the god tamer
flint timber
well maybe I did more if Gruz Mother counts, maybe theres somethign else I killed without realising its a real boss
finite herald
also trial zote version, we need that one lol
tribal nexus
You know I somehow managed to die to gruz mother which probably should have been my indication to just uninstall the game
hazy sentinel
what
finite herald
lmao i just changed it, btw Kein, will you be able to add god tamer eventually?
tribal nexus
You know I would quit this run. Because at this point I think i've gone mad. But the game knows that. It understands that. and it's not going to let me leave. (thanks for fixing that bug btw)
Not sure if this is caused by the mod, but it's kinda funny.
flint timber
all these ''years''
flint timber
I'm impressed by the overall quality actually
knowing its just, 3 people or something?
tribal nexus
Yeah the game is pretty fantastic. While there are some glitches, none of them seem to be game breaking, and I didn't run into any glitches while I casually played the game.
Best game I've played this year. Then again it's the only new game I've played this year.
flint timber
I dont want to talk so much about it yet , since I didnt finished it. However, I play like every relevant game, indi and AAA - cause thats my main hobby right. I dont finish all of them, alot of stuff these days is simply plain bad executed, has no new/own idears, is lazy, and buggy as hell.
No game is bug free - but hollow knight so far is supringsly well made, has own idears and execute them I woud say 8/10 - for an indi game this is more than impressiv
tribal nexus
I mean this game is actually full of bugs
Also i think the final boss should be the birds.
flint timber
funny, I didnt saw one bug so far. Little clipping here and there, but nothing I woud call bug
tribal nexus
Really? There are bugs everywhere! Why there is a bug in the intro cutscene
royal ridge
tribal nexus
Managed to get upside down hornet again
10/10 best bug
Okay? Btw the geo distribution is MUCH better now, thank you.
Who needs upgrades amirite?
rain cedar
I see
Any chance you could add an option to have soul limited from the start? I think it's definitely worth the extra 33% points but I don't like dying to Gruz to get it going
tribal nexus
You could just turn on no soul?
rain cedar
Cool, thanks
You know what would be easy? Just add a check for steel soul in the same place you check for charm 24 or soul limited
It's pretty much the same thing as your idea of death nullifying it
Just harsher penalty
Alright, separate mode works just as well then
I just liked the idea of higher points, but no deaths allowed
Makes sense
soulLimited is just a flag, it isn't what causes soul limit
If you look at PlayerData.StartSoulLimiter() you can see that it also sets maxMP = 66
I haven't tried to mod this so I might be wrong, but couldn't you just add a call to StartSoulLimiter? I mean you seem to have a reference to PlayerData in your BossRush class
tribal nexus
So far the geo changes have been really good. I've only died once. As opposed to before when I hit my head against a brick wall because my equipment was kinda unreasonable. Then again it's reasonable to assume I have improved at least a little bit.
but this is definitely far more enjoyable. So good job :)
I just died twice to crystal guardian 2
I think I died twice to no eyes on the other run
Just died to hornet 2 riiiiiiiiip
Also so far no glitches! so that's good
tribal nexus
They get easier the more you play honestly :)
Like even if you don't fight them a bunch of times
You see it's a little known fact but playing hollowknight actually slows down time around you the more you play it.
Suddenly it's like you're a TAS and you can input everything frame perfectly.
Nothing can be missed
flint timber
I'm rly pissed by these guys
hes like
oh I do 1v1
cause honor and stuff
what is this, dark souls?
tribal nexus
Yeah that's how I felt the first time I fought them
and then I fought them again
and again and again.
Until I finally beat them
and then I got to go through the best section of the game.
I mean the section isn't that bad after you know what you're doing, and it isn't even really that hard. I don't think I died... but it was kind of unpleasant.
flint timber
so you talk deepnest?
I was in there actually before
but decided I want my lantern first
xD
boreal valve
Actually, Dung Defender is honor. Mantis Lords are all about respect and earning their appreciation through battle and trials.
tribal nexus
Dung defender is a fun boss fight
boreal valve
Good good. I fought them really early, with the Old Nail. It took some tries but I did it. One of the best boss fights, in my opinion. It's perfectly paced and teaches you all the moves and strategies with one lord, and then tests you with two.
tribal nexus
Made even more so by the fantastic music
boreal valve
White Defender 👌
tribal nexus
White defender is fun too
boreal valve
DD is one of the best characters hands down
flint timber
its so cool they all bow to you
tribal nexus
Not even particularly hard
flint timber
so awesome
boreal valve
WD gave me some trouble
tribal nexus
at least not compared to failed champion
boreal valve
WD was harder than Failed Champion for me
Yea, the entire tribe bowing to you and not fighting you is a genius touch
Feels super rewarding
tribal nexus
I spent an hour fighting failed champion today >.<
boreal valve
Joni, Quick Slash, and Fragile Strength is the way to go
tribal nexus
granted it was with no soul, a level 3 nail, and only 10 hearts
I didn't have those
boreal valve
Dashing under him when he jumps, so you don't get trapped in a corner, is the most imnportant part in my eyes
tribal nexus
So I should have a FAR easier time with him this time
Yeah I figured that out
I beat him
But it was very frustrating
boreal valve
Just have to go in with a clear mind and focus on the fight.
Tilting gets you nowhere
tribal nexus
Not really. It was frustrating that I couldn't beat it, but at no point did I feel like genuinely giving up or that it was impossible.
The fight just felt kinda unreasonable, but I pushed through because why not
boreal valve
Eh, at no point did I feel the boss fights to be unreasonable. You're kind of expected to be better equipped by that point anyway.
tribal nexus
ik. the geo drops weren't well balanced.
tribal nexus
I don't remember having nearly as much trouble when I played with reasonable gear.
You could install the mod?
boreal valve
Eh, I'd rather wait on a TC official update. I'm not too into mods. I myself don't really care much for a boss rush. I was just saying that so many people want it that TC should look into putting it in the game.
tribal nexus
They are looking into it though.
boreal valve
I know
I read the AMA
Though, I have a feeling it won't be put in the game for a while
tribal nexus
Probably not for a bit.
boreal valve
CPs 2, 3, and Hornet DLC take top priority
Maybe they'll put it in with a CP update or with Hornet, but it doesn't seem like that will be the case.
tribal nexus
Maybe.
boreal valve
Still waiting on The Mantis Lords dream fight where you fight all 3 at the same time.
tribal nexus
That doesn't sound that hard?
tribal nexus
Yeah that would do it
tribal nexus
I don't think the player will be able to get all notch and health upgrades
and this is in no soul mode so I haven't been buying soul things either
rain cedar
I was able to get 9 notches, all hp, all nail upgrades, fragile strength, quick slash, longnail, dream wielder, dash + shade cloak, wall jump, double jump
tribal nexus
huh
rain cedar
That's with dying at the start for the extra 33%
tribal nexus
Oh that's a good point honestly
Didn't think about that
rip
Well I have the white defender fight
Also I should have died at the start for the extra bonus since I don't even use soul
I goofed
Yeah I'm not going to be able to use quick slash rip.
Defeating white defender did not spawn me at the fountain
although I was at negative health
because Joni sometimes glitches like that
These numbers are before the hollow knight fight, but
No Soul
Benches: 35
Deaths: 12
Monarch Wings
Shade Cloak (and dash)
Pure Nail
All health upgrades
3 notch upgrades
Joni's Blessing, Mark of Pride, Fragile Strength
@fair rampart
After the radiance though it's going to be like deaths: 99999
flint timber
when I finish the game can I still explore or is it over?
tribal nexus
You can still explore
My final stats are probably not going to match. i'll see you in like an hour after I kill radiance
btw steam in game time says 140 minutes
It's not really that big of an issue, I just thought I would mention it.
You still can't start the radiance fight without wall climbing. Although I am guessing you'll give that to the player in that situation
Oh yeah I seem to have wall climb
I still seem to have the mantis claw even after dying
rain cedar
I think it's fine the way it is
If you die you have a choice
You either keep the 33% gain or you get your geo back
Can't have both
tribal nexus
Yeah but the thing is
You can just beat the next boss
and then just buy whatever it is you want
then kill yourself again
rain cedar
I suppose so, yeah
flint timber
I'm good in these kind of things - can you explain what exactly you do right now?
tribal nexus
Plus any risk is negated with the dream fights which give the most geo
rain cedar
It's probably possible to make all geo lost even in dream deaths, right?
tribal nexus
5 bosses that give ~7000-8000 geo total normally
9310-10640 geo with 0 risk
I think that's what it is right now
It's somewhere around those numbers
Which has 0 risk to it
1900 geo is pretty helpful
Stack that with fragile greed
and tons of geo
Oh oaky
My favorite part of the radiance fight is where I fall to my death
boreal valve
You were talking about The Radiance and a bit of it's difficulty, so I chimmed in with a "The Radiance is hard" joke
tribal nexus
Honestly I am doing better than I expected to
I have consistently made it to phase two
And I only have joni's blessing and mark of pride
boreal valve
The hair joke was playing off of the "tearing your hair out when you get mad" expression
tribal nexus
I get it
If I had quick slash I probably would have won
rip didn't get to second phase
I bet I'll be on the final platform jumping to hit radiance and then windows will tell me it wants to update.
I quit my randomized run earlier today because of that. It happened during the collector fight.
Thank you for fixing that bug btw
I meant the collector bug
With max soul vessels there is no point in having joni's blessing in the radiance fight
Because you can heal 6 damage in the transistion between phase 1 and 2
which gives an effective health of 15
I did AS + Shaman stone + quick slash + soul eater
although mark of pride is actually really helpful
Then again I just love having a really long nail
I think when I beat the trial of fools I was running both long nail and mark of pride
to have an infinite reach nail
I did it
Apparently I miscounted some deaths
but that's not surprising
Benches is ~40
Deaths is 19
Benches is 40
it counts it
in the stats screen
Yes
I just miscounted my deaths
2
but they were probably to dream deaths
Wait does it not count dream deaths at all?
because it seems like it does
I probably just forgot a death or two
Or miscounted my tallies
Spent 2 hours messing around in the fountain apparently
I figured
Since I spent a lot of the time tabbing out to discord
but stats seem to count correctly
Soul Tyrant 7:55 boss fight
Does it count time while paused?
okay so that might be part of the reason
because I remember I paused to chat in discord several times during that fight
Don't really see how it would be abused that much
although atm I don't really care
I'm not exactly going for best time
This is just good practice in general
And apparently I'm improving - I died 6 times less than yesterday
Probably helps that I got a lot of practice from the other version since I had to play pretty well if I wanted to get anywhere
But the mod seems to be working pretty smoothly as far as I can see
Didn't run into any bugs while playing it.
Yeah that will probably help a bit
2700 to buy the last notch*
Nail upgrade is fine as is
Can't say anything about vessel upgrade, but health seems okay.
nice
Spells seemed a little expensive when I was playing, but that was also on the other version
besides who even needs spells
But this version is definitly much better. In that it's actually reasonably beatable by an average player
Yeah. I would imagine. You wouldn't want everything to be a cake walk, but you don't want it to be a four hour slog of throwing your head against a brick wall (ie the last version)
But so far it seems pretty well balanced
So good on you :)
finite herald
I just did it in 21 minutes all boss fights 43 total time
0 deaths. I think its great eight now
Maybe quick slash is too expensive
But if you lower the price of the notches, sounds great
I basically did a nail run
I bought fragile strenght, max nail upgrade
Shadow cloak, dash
And the masks
It was pretty fun, although white defender was hard like that
Almost die
What any other changes are you planning for the future?
Great. By the way, for now shadow cloak is a must right?
But for radiance you need it unless you are lucky
Right?
tribal nexus
If you use white hearts and get good rng (ie don't get hit more than 3 times) then you can heal everything. Provided you have 3 soul vessels
But shadowcloak is kinda necessary for both white defender and radiance, and it's pretty useful in general. So it's probably just better to get it.
finite herald
For whitr defender
You can avoid kinda by jumping
The spikes
But yes, i bave your point.
Awesome!
Thanks man
tribal nexus
If I have time tomorrow I'll check it out. Although I'll probably be a bit busy, and I have some work I need to do.
finite herald
I'm on 83 already
heavy geyser
1 more minute and 👌
finite herald
My first playthrough was 29, then i did a steel soul 100% in 10 hours, then 7, kinda started one that i want to do in less, plus like 1 hour using debug mode
tribal nexus
I think it might have been a bit shorter
finite herald
And now this one i've used kr for k dont know, like 6 hours
finite herald
It happened me to three times
For a fast one i tried
But i decided just to be a little bit more prepare
For some situations
tribal nexus
I was ~4 hours into a run and really didn't want to do it all over again
tribal nexus
Boss rush will totally help
tribal nexus
The main reason I am running no soul mode is because it forces me to actually dodge
tribal nexus
You're a mad man
But no soul mode definitely helps me learn to dodge because it's not like I can heal damage in most situations. And I definitely have improved a little.
finite herald
Yeah, I dont healt that much either
It's better to learn dodge than rely on healing when
It wont work or will be difficult with lots of bosses
tribal nexus
That's only 300 hits
Plenty of bosses have places where you can heal
But not having to rely on that is good
finite herald
trim totem
How do i extract the game music
trim totem
Thank
thin perch
@finite herald can't you just go infinite now?
finite herald
@thin perch what do you mean?
hazy sentinel
probably that you could fight WD infinite times
since you're going to get one shot anyways
thin perch
^
his patterns are gonna be the same no matter how many times you fight him he'll just do one more mask of damage which is irrelevant since he already one shots you
thin perch
so considering all these factors you can fight wd infinitely
finite herald
but after that is basically the same
unless you know, you use
charms that grants you masks
thin perch
and I'm still curious if overflow is a possibility
finite herald
like joni's blessing,, etc
overflow?
I think after like 19 or 20th time, they will always one shot you
no matter what
hazy sentinel
overflow as in
the damage hits the integer limit
and loops back around into the negatives
thin perch
the damage that he does is a variable so theoretically, if it's contiually increasing by one damage each time, it should be possible for that damage to have a maximum number
yea so in theory it would either heal you
or crash the game
finite herald
lol
finite herald
that would be funny
thin perch
it's a glitch used in a lot of older games where the limits are smaller
such as chronotrigger
finite herald
hmhmh, the thing is, what you think is the limit?, like to be honest, I'm not sure how it works whatever you guys are telling me, but I guess it means that both zote and wd must have a limit damage, right?
it's not like they will increase it infinite times
right?
finite herald
haha, i just stopped at 12-13, but one day I will reach the millions 😄
thin perch
the maximum that it might be is like 2.1 billion
but that's unlikey because they would be devoting a 64 bit variable to just the damage
finite herald
lol
the false knight it's relatively inmortal
if you don't allow him to break the floor, he will never die
quick ravine
i would suspect they used a normal c# int for their damage, but if they used an int32 it would be 64301 as the max.
solemn rivet
@quick ravine do you still have that bugged version of my mod in which you would be stuck on infinidash?
quick ravine
it came from me being half asleep and reading an example as the number instead of the actual value. xD And @solemn rivet that wasn't me. The only mods I've used are the debug mod and my own mod.
solemn rivet
So, just before I go today. Here's a link to the most recent version of my mod, Blackmoth (Knight) v.1.0.1. It's now fully functional with added interactions for the Dashmaster and Grubberfly's Elegy charms. As before, please report any un-intended/wanted/expected interactions and I'll try and fix them asap. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-qUydUUcSkUNDRiVWVkblQxNnM
On that folder there's a .modbundle file and a .zip file so everyone can be happy.
fair rampart
<3 thank youuuu
modern hound
@solemn rivet Is there a mac release?
warped sinew
Ok
Thats one way to do it. I would just make their health the Max it is in the game :p
Ahh yeah fair enough
You should create a sell system
But you get like 1/2 your geo back
modern hound
?
warped sinew
So if u fuck up real bad you can sell some charms
modern hound
500 health isnt much
are you saying that spell builds are too strong against the ghost bosses?
warped sinew
Like if the item cost 300 it sells for 150
warped sinew
I killed gorb in 1 second lol
fair rampart
Does anyone know of a way to detect if an enemy was hit, and how much damage was done? I can't seem to find C# code/methods for it in Assembly-CSharp, so I was thinking it might be in a PlayMaker FSM but I'm not sure.
solemn rivet
@heavy geyser I like how it makes us rethink the approach to each enemy
I really enjoyed fighting Hornet, for instance
@modern hound I don't have access to a vanilla copy of HK on mac, so not right now, but I would be happy to make a mac version if you could provide me the files to be modded!
fair rampart
Thanks for the info, do you know of a good OnTrigger2D event to use that works for all enemies? I've hooked OnTrigger2D for NailSlash attack, and it correctly picks up collisions between the standard slash attack and objects/enemies, but this doesn't handle the case where collisions between special attacks (eg the projectile attack) and enemies occur. Is there a general trigger for enemy collision/receiving damage or will I need to hook into other methods? It looks as if the FSM for enemies is where damage can be checked, but I'm not sure how to hook into a PlayMaker FSM to listen to events.
tribal nexus
Randomized mode: Fight grey prince zote at level 0
humble sinew
Fight Radiance with 0 nail damage
tribal nexus
Radiance is always last
Last randomized run I definitely got better rng
hey I managed to get markoth to phase two with level 0 gear
rain cedar
That's actually not too much different from fighting him with max nail
The way the soul warriors work is they get more hp the higher strength your nail is
It's dumb
rain cedar
I don't think it's cool
It discourages upgrading because unless you're using only melee the "upgrades" make you weaker
heavy geyser
According to the wiki, it looks like dream warriors only get one hp increase when you upgrade
rain cedar
That's not right, there's an hp increase for every upgrade
deep pilot
If someone could point out where in the code it increases the hp, it'd be easy to figure out if it's one way or the other
tribal nexus
Soul limited mode bonus is kind of ridiculous
I mean I definitely improved otherwise
but quickslash is super helpful, but doing regular doesn't get me it
It's kind of ridiculous considering I was able to not die to any of the dream bosses this run, which normally doesn't happen, and my total deaths went from 19 to 3
Actually I did die to lost kin
Idk why though but during the hollow knight fight the part where they slam against the ground changed into hollow knight sliding against the ground.
@fair rampart The difference between a soul limited run and a non soul limited run was a total of 10,000 points spent. Although I just bought random things before the hollow knight fight for like 2000 geo because I could. It's makes a pretty significant difference
tribal nexus
You might be able to? Kein lowered charm notch cost
but you probably won't be able to get it
I was doing a no soul run to so it's not like any money went into spells
as far as the upgrades I got (not counting thing I bought for no reason)
All health upgrades
All notches
All nail upgrades
Joni's Blessing, Mark of Pride, Fragile Strength, and Quickslash
Shade cloak (and dash)
Monarch wings
iirc yesterday I only had
All health
7 Notches
All nail upgrades
Joni's Blessing, Mark of Pride, Fragile Strength
Shade cloak (and dash)
Monarch wings
But 10000 difference is huge between the two. Especially since there is really no downside to doing soul limited on a no soul run.
Except maybe balancing on whether you should kill your shade, which was a pretty risky move on me, considering I beat markoth with 1 hp remaining and 1600 geo in my shade.
But even if I had died to markoth I probably would have made back all of the geo in the dream fights, which have no risk of losing geo.
deep pilot
Guess I'll stick to the original version of the boss rush mod where you automatically get abilties/upgrades unlocked after certain bosses.
I'm not a huge fan of being so limited on getting the upgrades/abilities vs charms
tribal nexus
This version isn't that bad. Definitely better than the first version with purchasable upgrades
Although you COULD use fragile greed to increase how many points you get.
deep pilot
Has the order of the bosses been switched around?
tribal nexus
Somewhat
deep pilot
Cause part of the problem I have is that I'm used to having certain abilities by different bosses
tribal nexus
afaik you can get all the abilities by their respective boss
deep pilot
But is it at the cost of not being able to get the charms you'd usually have against said bosses?
tribal nexus
At the moment it seems like it, unless you use soul limited.
deep pilot
Cause before I'd gotten Quick Slash as the second charm purchase. Now it seems that if I want to get it I'd have to skimp on health/soul vessel upgrades
While the latter is fine, I'm not so keen on losing out on health
tribal nexus
I've only done no soul runs so far so health hasn't been that big of an issue
but I see what you mean
it's kind of annoying
tbh though the only mobility upgrades you really need are dash, shadow cloak, and monarch wings.
deep pilot
Well, wall climb is kinda nice to have in the Uumuu fight
Cause I like dodging attacks by sliding down the walls
tribal nexus
That's about the one time really
heavy geyser
I hope it isn't too unfun because of balance. People will limit themselves if they want to anyway
tribal nexus
and monarch wings can usually supplement that
It's not too unbalanced
Not as unbalanced as V2
That was some serious BS
deep pilot
Alright, that's not too bad then
tribal nexus
10 masks and a level 3 nail against failed champion
bleh
glad that's not a thing anymore
deep pilot
I just need level 4 nail, fragile strength, quick slash, and at least 7 health and I'm good against failed champion.
With that much dps, failed champion melts
tribal nexus
Oh yeah that's basically what I did this run
jodi's blessing+fragile strength+quickslash
The dream bosses were a joke
idk why i died to lost kin
but other than that it was dumb
atm you could probably get quickslash by that point
since you skip out on the extra 4 charm slots
You can definitely have those stats at the point
My early progression is somthing like
Nail 1 and 2
Health upgrade
Dash
Monarch wings (Honestly I think I get dash and monarch wings at the same time)
Shade Cloak
actually I might be getting joni's blessing in there before shade cloak
deep pilot
Hmm
tribal nexus
not sure
deep pilot
I think I'll probably go Dash -> Nail 1 -> Monarch Wings -> Health -> Quick Slash -> Nail 2 -> Fragile Strength -> Shade Cloak -> Nail 3 -> Nail 4
Provided the geo is there
tribal nexus
Nail 1 and 2 cost 1500 geo total
deep pilot
and throw in a couple charm notches to stack quick slash and fragile strength
tribal nexus
if you're playing soul limited you can do that and still get dash before mantis lords
Although I just got health because honestly dash isn't necesary in mantis lords fight
and iirc my first playthrough dashing more often than not ended up with me landing on spikes
But not soul limited you have 1500 before mantis lords
So you could get dash nail 1 and a health upgrade
deep pilot
I don't think I'd need the health upgrade, tbh
tribal nexus
and you might be able to get monarch wings after the soul master fight which is next
deep pilot
So I could save up for the monarch wings
tribal nexus
although I think soul master only give ~600-700
deep pilot
I've done Soul Master with Nail 1 on 5 health fairly consistently
tribal nexus
Yeah Soul master is pretty easy
I try to get dash and wings before uumuu
although you can do it without either
I think there are two dream fights before uumuu
after soul master
deep pilot
For that matter, I once attempted Soul Tyrant with Nail 1 on 5 health. Got past Stage 1 with full HP and Soul, but died cause I didn't bother dodging the orbs in Stage 2 in my attempts at just damaging him down.
tribal nexus
That's pretty good
I remember I fought soul tyrant right after soul master in my casual run because I didn't know where to go. Good hour or two of dying.
deep pilot
Sounds like most people's experience with their first dream boss, so not too surprising
tribal nexus
Yeah
finite herald
what is soul limited?
I've tried only random and normal, both are super ufn
@fair rampart @warped sinew where can I see your run killing grob in 1 sec? ._.
tribal nexus
Soul limited gives you an extra 33% geo. Basically you just kill yourself on gruz, and don't kill your shade.
Personally I think it's kinda dumb :/
finite herald
but what is the restriction of it?
and why would you do that?
why would you kill you rself on gruz?
finite herald
oh, i mostly do nail only runs, so i guess that one will benefit me
tribal nexus
which gives you 33% more geo which is kind of dumb and arbitrary
Yeah I've only run no soul runs
So it has pretty much no downsides except maybe losing geo if I do something risky
Which almost happened in my run.
finite herald
and why wouuld you die against gruz? i didnt understand that part
tribal nexus
Because that causes you to spawn a shade and sets you in soul limited mode
finite herald
._.
tribal nexus
There is no other way to start the mode
It's active as long as you don't kill your shade
finite herald
so you leave the shade and as long as there's a shade, you have 33% soul less?
tribal nexus
and it's dumb because you get ~10000 more geo
33% less soul capacity
like in the regular game.
finite herald
hmhm I'll keep trying idfferent modes, the randome one was super good, I fought Galien as teh first boss and it was actually hard
so that was pretty fun
tribal nexus
Good luck!
finite herald
I wanna see Graig's run, tho
Have you seen it?, Gorb in one sec?, lol with nail only I manage to kill crystal guardian in 7 secs, but
1 sec for a boss, damn
tribal nexus
But the difference is kinda dumb with soul limited, considering the difference made it so I had quickslash and 3 more notches. Which made the dream bosses a joke.
Yeah that's crazy
finite herald
where did you see it?
tribal nexus
I haven't seen the run
finite herald
ohhh okok, I'm looking forward to see what the speed runner do, I mean I tend to finish in like 28 minutes (boss battles only )
but with nail
like the one that takes me the longest to kill is probably uumuu
and radiance maybe
nah radiance no to be honest
tribal nexus
In my last run my longest fight was with markoth
but I'm not amazing
although soul limited the geo gain is dumb considering it made the difference between 19 total deaths and 4 (technically 3 because I purposely killed myself on gruz)
I mean I'm sure I improved and that definitely makes a difference
But so does having quickslash and fragile strength on dream bosses.
finite herald
i'¡ll try it later
tribal nexus
Good luck. Although I doubt it will be that difficult.
Do you have any tips for markoth?
finite herald
i tend to avoid and get some hits when he throws the spears, and when is spinning the shields i go on top of him and bounce as much as i can
tribal nexus
Okay
Markoth was the only one I really had trouble with in that run
The other two I died to were because of dumb mistakes
Which granted not making dumb mistakes is important, but considering markoth killed me and managed to get me down to one health it's pretty obvious I need to practice on him.
warped sinew
@finite herald
On my stream graig1337
In twitch. Check my videos . boss rush is the one u want
Its in the first run through. I'm on phone at work otherwise I'd link it directly
rain cedar
Literally just spam the most appropriate magic for the boss and any soul warrior will die close to instantly if you are at nail 0
solemn rivet
So here it is. A (tentative) mac version is now available for anyone who wants to try it out. Since I don't have a Mac I can't exactly check this (and I don't want to run a VM, sue me), so please report any issues. https://mega.nz/#F!vo52jKzD!rk80BGKmaZSFtS_ZJmEmcA
solemn rivet
you can actually dash through him, but it's VERY precise, yeah
heavy geyser
(i implied I knew that)
solemn rivet
yeah, I know
glad you enjoyed it!
I had a blast playing all the way to hornet to test what would happen after you get the actual Mothwing Cloak
heavy geyser
Up-dash looks awkward. https://puu.sh/xlYSu/fa041a9c03.png
solemn rivet
yeah
I still haven't figured out how to make it better
there are many things to improve
but I still don't fully grasp how to make things work, so...
solemn rivet
mechanically it works, but I wanted to use maybe the normal dash animation rotated or something
solemn rivet
can anyone help? I've set damage on my mod to behave like this: on Attack() it sets nail damage to 1, on HeroDash() it sets nail damage to 5+upgrades*4, and it works fine... Up until I either die or save and quit
something is preventing nailDamage from being updated, but what and why?
finite herald
@warped sinew I don't know why I imagine most of the people playing this game as teenagers, but speedrunners are all grown up men hahahaha, or women
i just started to watch the boss rush right now, let me see that 1 sec gorb! 😄
warped sinew
Physically grown sure
finite herald
I don't know why but I'm pretty sure i've seen you before
ok, so far you kill gruzz 2 seconds faster than me, and failed knight about the same time, maybe i do it 3-4 seconds later, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna learn a lot from you
let's see how you do moss charger
warped sinew
I suck at moss
tender sinew
rip
finite herald
really? I'll suscribe to your twitch
haha
i mean follow
not suscribe as in pay, i'm poor 😦 hhah, but I will follow you to get notification when you are
streaming
warped sinew
Lol thats OK I'm not a 'real' streamer
I dont know how to do that subscribers stuff nor do I care for it
I just play the game sometimes and stream
finite herald
yeah but I mean, I can tell you have full knowledge of the game, I want to learn from the best to optimize killing the bosses
warped sinew
Well I have probably killed these bosses more than anyone on the planet lol so yeah
finite herald
you are a tester of the game, right?
I mean, you are part of team cherry or something like that, am I wrong?
warped sinew
Yer tester
finite herald
ok I just learned with mantis that you can jump and hit them twice in the air
so that's an extra hit
is there any particular reason why you dont do the jump + down attack when the mantis attack horizontally?
like you avoid them and and hit them twice with a side attack, i mean ig uess is the same, you get two hits
but for some reason I always jump, i guess my way is less accurate?
warped sinew
Nah no reason sometimes I down hit
finite herald
i hate fighting uumuu
most of the time i tend to use nail only, so nail only uumuu is boring
warped sinew
Also I'm not really speed running in that vid so dont take it too seriously
finite herald
yeah got you, still I learn wsome things with your streaming, are you planning on speed run it?
warped sinew
Also kein is going to change the mod so spellbuilds aren't so powerful
I will once kein is set on the mod
finite herald
awesome
warped sinew
We have a lot of balancing to do
Reminds me of making the game before release
Balancing is hard but fun
finite herald
I'm in love with this game, the boss r ush have given me so much replayability... I'm happy, I want more content
more stuff
I know some people h ave like 500 hours in hk, speed runners and testers I guess, but I almost have 90 hrs, which is rare for a single player in my case
Hollow Knight is probably my favorite single experience ever, and second would be bloodborne
amazing games
finite herald
i heard you say on the streaming that wthe second pack will arrive soon? 😮
hahaha, that smile after killing gorb tho XD
finite herald
why are you getting 666 points?
warped sinew
I have fragile greed on (+30% more geo)
finite herald
ohh got it
what about the three great dream bosses, are they affected by nail upgrades as well?
and aslo zote and white defender
warped sinew
Nope
finite herald
i've noticed some bosses with nail builds you can kill them faster, but I mean, it takes me way more than 1 second to kill gorb with a decently upgraded nail lol, like 40 secs or something like that
that spell that releases t he small bug is pretty good, right?
I've never used it
markoth in 3 seconds lol
bnut yeah, hopefully you guys can balance it to make nail-spells kinda similar in speed runs, if that's somehow possible. Also
is there a particular reason why youu can't start dream bosses fights right away? like for soul tyrant for instance
😮 id idnt know you can stay in the platform above with soul tyrant after he breaks the glass, nice
tribal nexus
Dream things scale with nail damage. So you're pretty much screwed at doing them quickly. Otherwise I might not have as much trouble with Markoth.
finite herald
yeah I mean, compare 3 secs vs like 40 secs that it takes me to kill him, sometimes 1+ minute
the difference is huge, especially for a speed run
quick ravine
So my mod might actually make flukenest the hardest boss in the game.
It's constantly spawning homing flying enemies that take two dung hatchlings to kill each (which means well over 10 slashes if they aren't hit by a hatchling first) and the hatchlings tend to prioritize them since they stay right on your tail.
tribal nexus
Nice!
Honestly I don't remember the God tamer fight that much
I just remember being a bit panicky since it was the end and just kinda winning
I didn't use fragile strength
Yeah that will be interestig
I don't even know his attack patterns
I think the ant thing does like a charge attack
Or was it a roll?
I meant the beast
Not the ant
Thinking like antlions
But that isn't an antlion
Ah
Yeah I didn't remember that fight
Just that I kinda facetanked it
I think I had long nail and mark of pride along with quick slash
So super fast nail moving at incredibly long ranges
Honestly though the range with that is absurd
It's not really a practical use of notch slots, but it's funny
It does help with the all air section and killing primal aspids
That would probably be fine
What's the current boss order?
Did you post the order?
Not that it matters too much
I think that would be collector>god tamer> CG2> Hornet2>Markoth>Dream bosses
Or something
Maybe Markoth is earlier
I just really don't like markoth
Really I just need to practice that fight more
Or is it Markoth>cg2>hornet2
I have only done nail only runs
And you did post the boss order
Oh yes that's just so lovely
More time to fight that awful boss
I probably need to work on my watcher knight game
Although that's gotten pretty good
Nvm that is the old boss order which is what I thought
With broken vessel way too late
But it will be cool to fight god tamer so nice job on that! :)
I'm not sure how much I improved between the runs because of soul limited changing things.
rain cedar
For the soul warrior scaling are you adding melee + magic strength or taking the highest of the two? Like would nail 1 + shade soul be 1 hp up or 2?
Yeah the ghost guys
Ok so it's the higher of the two, not added
Cool
Oh you're counting vengeful spirit as an hp up?
Then why does shade soul make the hp go to level 3?
Were you counting shaman stone?
Ok
I'm assuming the 3 charms you count are soul eater, shaman stone, and spell twister
Yeah it is
I think +2 is overkill
Well I don't necessarily agree with this system but it's probably the best solution to the broken system in the base game
Scaling hp is a terrible idea, should just make the ones that should be strong strong no matter what
Well obviously Gorb shouldn't be one of the strong ones
As an example: Gruz Mother is weak and that's fine
There's no need to make her stronger if you fight her late with high damage
I don't know why they decided this wasn't fine with the ghost bosses
And similarly, end game bosses like soul tyrant would be a nightmare to fight early
Kinda like how I think markoth should be
But anyway, this isn't your problem to fix I'm just ranting for no reason
fair rampart
Does anyone have any ideas for mods they'd be interested in? I'm looking to make some mods for the game and I want to find out if there are any interesting mods that haven't been made yet.
modern hound
We WoW bois
finite herald
@fair rampart so you can't kill them in one sec now?
the ghost warriors?
damn i'm excited to play it lol
i'll play it later today
finite herald
Awesome. Is there something you can do to like go directly to dream bosses instead of having to
Dream nail@them?
Like with soul tyrant, lost kin, zote, etc
quick ravine
nope
half laurel
trials don't count as bosses for boss rush mod purposes?
finite herald
No
There should be a mod based on challenges, maybe some random trial of some sort.
The boss rush is amazing tho
I've put at least 8 hours in that mod
rain cedar
Before the dream bosses makes sense to me if you're going to move him