hk-discussion

[kindred hamlet]

Much to my chagrin

[honest shale]

no ai capybaras

illegal

[obtuse sundial]

This a good chat killer. Im taking this.

[rich wedge]

Bro

The knight is an mma fighter

And I think he drinks beer

Or it if u will

[honest shale]

ah yes my favourite drink

it

[rich wedge]

I meant to replace he lol

Also yk how yesterday I told you

I like saying random bullshit to relieve Myself

It's happening rn bro 👬

I feel like I'm drunk on water

[honest shale]

at least nothing sus is being said

calling the knight an mma fighter isnt gonna get you banned

[rich wedge]

However

Calling the White lady

Ok I'm tired bye guys

[honest shale]

bye

go to sleep

[rich wedge]

Ive been awake for 41 hrs so far

Yeah good idea man

[rich wedge]

It's brutal btw I keep on nearly falling

[obtuse sundial]

I agree. U dont want this on you...

[rich wedge]

Oh no

[honest shale]

u dont have it

yet

[rich wedge]

ik but

[honest shale]

also go to sleep

[rich wedge]

I shouldve gotten it

Yes sir

I doint even remember why you unblocked me sir

did I say sorry

[honest shale]

you stopped being wierd

[rich wedge]

🥹

okok

[honest shale]

also you apologised like a billion times

[rich wedge]

oh

[honest shale]

now go to sleep

[rich wedge]

yes

ill sl

[hallow solar]

!wiki oro_and_mato

!wiki brothers_oro_and_mato

ok why does oro and mato have 2800 hp

like excuse me

more than absrad by 700

[exotic path]

they are 2

[hallow solar]

why do they have 2800 hp combined

ridiculous

[tall marten]

First steel soul run, where do yall think I'll die?

[honest shale]

fungal wastes

[tall marten]

Like, mantis lords or just a random place in there?

[honest shale]

probably to the sporgs

[tall marten]

Funny, because I also had a question on how to deal with a bug i seem to be experiencing in the city of tears

[honest shale]

what bug?

[tall marten]

This

Sorry for the poor quality of video

[honest shale]

skill issue

[tall marten]

Leaving and coming back in didn't help

[honest shale]

uhh what game version

[tall marten]

The supposed latest version on PS5

[honest shale]

so same version as me on switch 2

brb

im tryna see if this is consistent

yeah uhh what the fuck

like shut down your ps5 and try again

i cant replicate the bug

[hallow solar]

Rad oro and mato is harder than radkoth

[patent rain]

Wait do I need ||monarch wings|| do reach ||enraged guardian||

[tall marten]

No

[honest shale]

yes

[tall marten]

Kinda

[patent rain]

Then how

[honest shale]

tf u on abt

[hallow solar]

Most soul radiant draining fight I’ve ever played

[lapis musk]

you can do skips to get there

but realistically yes you need wings

[hallow solar]

Even watchers was less rage inducing

[tall marten]

Isn't the claw also viable. Been a bit since I been to that place

[hallow solar]

Oro and mato are so peak on attuned why is radiant so bad for them

[honest shale]

no its too high to reach with claw

[tall marten]

My b. I stand corrected

[hallow solar]

Can somebody help with Oro and mato

Completely impossible

[honest shale]

i could if i was good at giving advice

[hallow solar]

They have so much health

[tall marten]

Did my steel soul run get fricked over because I reset the Playstation and it didn't work

[hallow solar]

Each Nailmaster has more health than radiant Markoth

[honest shale]

no

[lapis musk]

abuse all 3 spells lwk

[honest shale]

wait actually yes

[lapis musk]

spell carried fight

[hallow solar]

Abyss shriek deadass

[honest shale]

you cant leave from there

[hallow solar]

Think you mean 2

[lapis musk]

3

[hallow solar]

Shriek can’t hit them ever

[honest shale]

on the jumps

[hallow solar]

Fine it’s a trade

[lapis musk]

are you asking for help or not

in phase 1, shriek shreds

[honest shale]

also they just big enough to get hit

[hallow solar]

Phase 1 isn’t hard

[honest shale]

when grounded

[lapis musk]

yeah nor is phase 2 imo but it makes it quicker

and quicker = more attempts

[tall marten]

dang

[hallow solar]

Phase 2 is really really hard

[tall marten]

I just wanted a sharper nail

[hallow solar]

They keep corner camping

[honest shale]

just to piss you off ima see how many times i can beat rad oro and mato

[lapis musk]

in phase 2 you just sit back keeping both on 1 side of you, then when they jump, dash under -> 2-3 nail hits -> ddark -> shade dash out

[hallow solar]

bro why are you trying to piss me off 😭

[lapis musk]

if they do the nail combo then shade soul during it -> dash and hit a few times after its finished

thats like the whole fight basically

[hallow solar]

uh what

The nail combo is instant???

[tall marten]

Why not?

[lapis musk]

i mean it just isnt but i also didnt say to do anything with the telefrag

[honest shale]

he doesnt think so

[hallow solar]

Bro Oro and mato is worse than radkoth

Radkoth lowk took 20 minutes

[honest shale]

1 win

[lapis musk]

20m is also just alot faster than most people

[hallow solar]

Both are hard

[lapis musk]

lying for fun

[hallow solar]

Now you’re just rage baiting

[tall marten]

Well now imma go to godhome

[hallow solar]

I don’t get how to dodge the random jumps

[hollow nova]

Who here got song recs

[hallow solar]

They just leap at me Mach 3

[lapis musk]

random in what way?

[lapis adder]

🤸
🦽🏌️

[lapis musk]

regardless i explained that above

[hallow solar]

Repositioning problem

If you’ve heard of it

[lapis musk]

you just dash under the jump -> turn around -> nail hit 2-3 times -> ddark -> shade dash out

on repeat

[honest shale]

they have some of the most telegraphed jumps in the game

[hallow solar]

I’m at the top of the map and they snipe me

Off screen

[lapis musk]

the jump isnt a repositioning jump

they jump on you or away from you

[hallow solar]

They are offscreen and then 0.5 seconds later I’m dead

Feels like a battle of luck

[lapis musk]

keep then on your screen

[honest shale]

why are they offscreen

[hallow solar]

I’m at the wall

[lapis musk]

but you can also definitely reach with a dash forward

[lapis musk]

well dont be

[hallow solar]

Then the instant nail combo kills me

[honest shale]

bro

[lapis musk]

the nail combo really isnt instant either gng theres alot of exaggeration here

[native epoch]

can i kms now

[honest shale]

nooooo

[lapis musk]

learn to do climb gng

[native epoch]

I DID

i always did it and the last phase no hit

[hallow solar]

It’s called 2 hp

[lapis musk]

he literally died

[hallow solar]

I’m gonna try one last time

[honest shale]

im not gonna take part in this argument

[hallow solar]

Doing the middle strat

[native epoch]

it's all cuz i didn't jump enough and clinged to the side

[honest shale]

im not good enough to have an opinion

[hallow solar]

If it works I’ll say arima is a goddamn genius

[lapis musk]

i just wouldnt really recommend dashing tbh

too risky

[honest shale]

be prepared to say that bro

[lapis musk]

messes up the tempo

[tall marten]

Btw. Is rad grimm troupe considered good-ish?

[shrewd nymph]

have you watched someone else do it before?

[native epoch]

i don't usually dash, im pretty sure i stressed out so much at that moment, which was the mistake

[honest shale]

why do i have to know this?

[lapis musk]

makes sense

[native epoch]

the fact i didn't jump high enough proves it

[honest shale]

idfk

i just know im not

[shrewd nymph]

theres really no skill requirement to be in a conversation 😭

[native epoch]

especially that it shows i assumed i already landed and was going for the next jump

[honest shale]

oh mb AHSGHAHAGSJ

cool

[native epoch]

but i actually like this run, first time to have 10 lifeblood at the same time

[shrewd nymph]

eh ive seen alot of people under the skill of the topic with good takes on it

[honest shale]

i dont really like chilling out

[shrewd nymph]

if someone says something thats just wrong then you ignore it

dont gotta gatekeep a conversation

you arent everyone

[honest shale]

tgis may be partially my fault

[shrewd nymph]

thats certainly an outlook

[hallow solar]

this is EXACTLTY what i mean by repositioning problem. skip to 0:55

[keen thorn]

You have a good tempo, keep that up. But yeah practice climb a bit.
I think you were nervous there, your first mistake was miscalculating your height. That's why I suggest to never dash as it leads to situations like these. Alternatively you could have dropped back to the platform and go back next tempo.
For the last death, yeah that's just you freezing. Most certainly just nerves there.

[shrewd nymph]

thats why you were told to dash under the jump

i can send you a clip of me fighting them if you want a visual demonstration

but dash under and then hit twice and ddark

[hallow solar]

i understand how to do it when it works

[rocky hazel]

im in path of pain last little section, do you guys have tips?

first time

[honest shale]

skill fucking issue holy

[keen thorn]

Oh please no not the Holland repositioning problem 💀

[shrewd nymph]

start off with a cdash to save time on attempts, and make sure you finish it with full soul and full hp

[shrewd nymph]

what?

it always works

[rocky hazel]

thanks

[keen thorn]

Oro and Mato always do that, they have a 50/50 chance to roll or jump after slashing

[hallow solar]

im getting a conflicting message here

[keen thorn]

The solution is, just don't be over them

[shrewd nymph]

dash under the jump

thats all you need to know

[hallow solar]

staying by the wall is bad yet i cant get past the brother

[honest shale]

he made custom charms 😭

that were balanced 😭

[hallow solar]

i dont even like the repositioning problem

[native epoch]

im pretty sure my issues with the climb are already gone, i always do it whenever i reached it during practice, but well it happens

[hallow solar]

as a concept

this is like the one case where i find it applicable

[shrewd nymph]

do you want to see a clip of how dashing under works

[hallow solar]

honestly fine

[honest shale]

it was joke 🙂

[native epoch]

that's 4 deaths

[honest shale]

yeah mb

[hallow solar]

tlord doesnt reposition

[honest shale]

traitor lord has no issues

[hallow solar]

tlord is basically grimm

[keen thorn]

I'm not gonna say his opinions are invalid, since everyone is entitled to have opinions
But he presents them in such a way that he sounds very experienced in the game when he's clearly not for anyone that's actually played a lot.
And then gives pretty bad ideas, tips and explanations.

[shrewd nymph]

https://youtu.be/D2SBox0cKPs?t=238
4 minutes is start of the fight

[keen thorn]

And everyone listens to them since he seems so trustworthy

[honest shale]

traitor walk was found and solved

[shrewd nymph]

i was thinking of tom holland who tf is that

[honest shale]

hk youtuber

[keen thorn]

A new HK YouTuber

[shrewd nymph]

gotcha

[honest shale]

well you see, boss unfair bcs teleport

[hallow solar]

now im even more confused how did they die so fast

does ascended buff them THAT much

!wiki brothers_oro_and_mato

[hollow nova]

man who tf is holland

[honest shale]

!wiki oro and mato

[shrewd nymph]

a little

[violet flicker]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Brothers_Oro_&_Mato
Not the correct result? Use !wiki page oro and mato for a direct link or !wiki search oro and mato for a list of all hits.

[shrewd nymph]

but ive also just optimised the fight quite well

[hollow nova]

first time I've heard of this guy

[keen thorn]

And you know, I'm fine with whatever else he says
But "The repositioning problem" is just so blahhhhhhhhhhhhgdjdjrodkckowoxlgnpxkenedoxeacoreocfu

[shrewd nymph]

the bit im pointing out is dashing under the jump and then hitting twice, ddarking, and shade dashing out

[copper spruce]

Dreamnail the singer girl in city of tears

[shrewd nymph]

also shade souling on the nail hit is easy damage that people rarely do

[keen thorn]

That's the most inexperienced opinion of all time

[honest shale]

???

[hallow solar]

the hp doesnt even change whattttt

then how do they die in 30 seconds

[hollow nova]

Oxymoron

[honest shale]

a dumbass idiot

[copper spruce]

Is holland fireb0rn without the sauce?

[hollow nova]

BlueSR seems chill actually

[shrewd nymph]

i mean i feel like it is definitely an issue but only on very few bosses

[hallow solar]

i mean i guess oro has double health

[honest shale]

no hes fireb0rn if he was shit at the game

[keen thorn]

Yeah I'll admit LK/BV, Hornet and probably champ could do a bit of work

[hallow solar]

im so baffled

[copper spruce]

Ah thank god I'm only slightly shit at the game

[verbal pasture]

Isn’t hollands charm ideas basically just make the game ultra defense and slow

[keen thorn]

Oh and tl of course but that's a bug

[shrewd nymph]

ok yeah acknowledging lk and bv was all i wanted

[copper spruce]

Explose you three

[shrewd nymph]

fuck those jumps

[honest shale]

false information

[keen thorn]

But the rest of bosses have their repositioning tied to their moves and are so predictable

[hallow solar]

I lowk hate the repositioning problem

The idea

[copper spruce]

Genio go retire to terraria

[hollow nova]

okay this guy is a moron lmao

[hallow solar]

Like tf you mean it’s a problem it’s part of the boss

[honest shale]

the the when the why?

[shrewd nymph]

lost kin fullstop tbh

[keen thorn]

I watched his entire series on charms and he just buffed tanking charms so much the meta would be just tank everything

[honest shale]

bro read the previous thing he said

[keen thorn]

I clearly stated LK could do some work

[shrewd nymph]

reading comprehension vs hkmain

[honest shale]

what did u say?

[hallow solar]

lost kin has barely any repositioning problems at all

[shrewd nymph]

[copper spruce]

Hk main vs average gacha game player

[honest shale]

what does that mean?

[shrewd nymph]

its like half his kit man

[hallow solar]

Maybe I’m too good at lost kin

To notice

[keen thorn]

He mentioned hive knight
But hive knight jumps are slow and tied to the slow attacks

[hallow solar]

Fights easier than broken vessel smh

Hive knight has 0 problem

[copper spruce]

Hive knight takes like 5 business days to do shit, super telegraphed

[keen thorn]

Also collector bruh
That's literally all the boss does if he hits you like that it's so your fault

[honest shale]

well you see art is objective so lets get the holland on here so we can hear his objective opinion

[hollow nova]

i don't like it that doesn't mean its objectively bad because there is no way to objectively quantify the quality of a work of art

[bitter jolt]

hi lune

[shrewd nymph]

ok im shit at collector but i swear his jump height varies too much

[keen thorn]

No

Explode

[shrewd nymph]

hi end

[keen thorn]

He jumps too lol

[honest shale]

it has a pattern tho

[shrewd nymph]

teleporting as a reposition is also an issue

and one that really isnt talked abt enough

[copper spruce]

I remember when levi said I was poopoo compared to fireb0rn
True tbh

[hallow solar]

Nosk has the problem but you have to work around it

Part of the boss

[hollow nova]

And ofc there's ways to study art and apply theory and stuff

[shrewd nymph]

probably

[copper spruce]

Anyway what about getting telefragged by SoB

[keen thorn]

Hive knight makes a great application of both teleporting and jumping
But he only mentions teleporting and complains about jumping

[honest shale]

you have entered into the realm of collectively shitting on one youtuber

[shrewd nymph]

nkg is an example of teleporting being used wrong

[hollow nova]

hk youtubers are never beating the allegations

[shrewd nymph]

so its not like fully good

genuine bait

[copper spruce]

Its why i retired to some fuckass gacha game being an assistant to a dev for a database project

[honest shale]

he then uses nkg as an example of good teleporting

[hallow solar]

Also Markoth like very rarely can just teleport a spear on top of you

[keen thorn]

Let's give nkg lune
From a casual perspective nkg is perfectly designed and that's ok

[hollow nova]

I mean sure but that claim is just objectively wrong

[copper spruce]

Wrong nkg is the s tier boss in the game

[hollow nova]

Not a good impression

[shrewd nymph]

well yeah but thats not mutually exclusive

[hallow solar]

Nkg uses teleporting well

[shrewd nymph]

pv is a teleporting boss that doesnt fall apart in high skill levels

we're talking about for good players

[keen thorn]

That's actually on the fault of the player
The spears spawn on a radius around you, but if you move too fast (dash and free fall) you can move into this range as it spawns
The solution is to not do sudden movements

[copper spruce]

We need nkg to telefrag people
That sure is fair

[honest shale]

nkg is good, but not bcs of the teleports

[bitter jolt]

lol which one

[shrewd nymph]

you

[hallow solar]

Yea sure, don’t move too much to dodge it. Problem is you kinda can’t do that in phase 2 because it’s so fast

[honest shale]

the_holland

[hollow nova]

Its in your control but imo your movement should still be accommodated for to avoid telefragging

[bitter jolt]

[honest shale]

ill get an image

[hidden sundial]

hello

[hollow nova]

Just cuz its not super fun imo

[slim jackal]

Guys hear me out Frisk could easily beat the knight look https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZXMhJbyfWM&t=193s I know i was sad too i love our knight but watch this

[hollow nova]

And I do like Markoth and this is pretty rare occurrence

[hallow solar]

Knight v frisk is a battle of bias

Whoever you want to win wins

[keen thorn]

Yeah, sometimes it is a bit too much.
But in general the block from making movements too sudden works well

[honest shale]

this guy

[keen thorn]

Maybe just make the range a bit bigger

[rocky hazel]

depends on size ratio

[hollow nova]

mmmm

[bitter jolt]

never hard of em

[shrewd nymph]

insane glaze for some rando

[hallow solar]

Knight v frisk is a stalemate imo

[honest shale]

no that title would go to me trust

[hallow solar]

Both sides can infinitely revive

[shrewd nymph]

w starting strat

[kindred lake]

the first time i encountered the waterways (from kingdoms edge entrance) i wept
so many tears
its so calming i i
this one room is my safe space
from the colors to the textures to the ambience to the water drops
i know the rest of waterways is a whole different vibe but this space means so much to me
shoutout team cherry for making such a game where a space like this can do this

[verbal pasture]

Only good hk YouTuber is skurry tbh

[copper spruce]

Genio best youtuber

[bitter jolt]

nah its kiier

nvm hes a cookie clicker youtuber

[verbal pasture]

Okay

[hallow solar]

How about

Instead of hating

[copper spruce]

Hi levi

[hallow solar]

Just disagree with his opinions

[verbal pasture]

You can think that

[honest shale]

this is subjective 🙂

[keen thorn]

If he truly understood game design he wouldn't have every single experienced player disagree with basically all of his takes

[hallow solar]

And move on

[hollow nova]

skurry plugged Mio which is based

[verbal pasture]

True!

[bitter jolt]

levi can you claer 2.0 for me

[hollow nova]

introducing hk fans to real games 🙏

[shrewd nymph]

does he have any credentials? like has he done r5ab or anything like that

[verbal pasture]

20 dollars

[bitter jolt]

bruh lol

[hallow solar]

Slurry is good holland is good fireborn is good bluesr is good

[honest shale]

he has played p5

[keen thorn]

He hasn't done anything that remarkable
Iirc just Rhog

[hollow nova]

I mean he fundamentally misunderstands art as a whole what can you expect

[honest shale]

and thats abt it

[hollow nova]

I don't care about feats that much tbh but the glaze is crazy

[shrewd nymph]

i got 3 different answers 😭

[keen thorn]

Still, let's take the best, P5AB

[shrewd nymph]

i mean if someone who hasnt beaten p5 is trying to talk about balancing bosses and charms at a 'deep level of understanding' then yeah

[keen thorn]

That's not enough to really sustain claims in an argument based on experience

[hallow solar]

He beat p5ab

[shrewd nymph]

i mean p5ab isnt bad

[carmine lava]

what’s happening

[hollow nova]

I trust players who aren't godhome rotted on god

[honest shale]

well you see traitor lord moving forward on occasion = bad

[copper spruce]

We're hating one hk youtuber

[shrewd nymph]

this is true

[copper spruce]

Idk why it just happened

[hollow nova]

Contact damage is objectively bad ofc and art that uses it is objectively bad don't ask me what that means

[honest shale]

someone glazed him too much

[copper spruce]

I'm just shitposting anyway

[shrewd nymph]

i mean if contact dmg was removed then half the bosses would have no attacks

[carmine lava]

who and why

[shrewd nymph]

contact damage shouldnt exist on staggered bosses imo but overall its fine

[pliant bough]

quantum

[hollow nova]

Idk what does objectively bad mean

[copper spruce]

Holland
Something about game design

[verbal pasture]

Alright little bro we get it 💀

[hallow solar]

It all started because i mentioned the repositioning problem when referring to radoro and radmato

[carmine lava]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-calico-cat-cute-dance-cat-dance-gif-27615826

[keen thorn]

Tbf that is bad because it's a bug and just came out horribly. It doesn't matter that it's predictable

But he's also hipocritical about it, since he excuses that on being a bug and predictable (which it is) but then complains about other bosses having predictable repositioning he just can't understand

[hollow nova]

If art isn't subjective I'd be interested in hearing what bro considers an objectively good game

[honest shale]

how is this the most sane thing here

[knotty ravine]

fireborn surely

[shrewd nymph]

surprisingly not

[copper spruce]

Thank God I'm not the craziest motherfucker in the room right now

[bitter jolt]

i hate ddark

shit spell

[hallow solar]

Am i crazy

[shrewd nymph]

i mean yeah but also hitless would suck on too many bosses without it

[digital grove]

@bitter jolt end

[honest shale]

well you see, fuck you
as you can see i ran out of arguments

[copper spruce]

Imagine not spamming ddark like a pro player

[keen thorn]

Holland
You'll probably hate him because he tried rebalancing charms and idr what he did with Dashmaster

[bitter jolt]

hi ei

[bitter jolt]

idfc

[shrewd nymph]

smh letting me suffer

[knotty ravine]

Oh we were talking about holland lmaooooo

[digital grove]

https://tenor.com/view/rivulet-ruffles-rain-world-rain-world-gif-12897914732965331528

[bitter jolt]

its so annoying

[keen thorn]

Oh ture you know him

[verbal pasture]

I’m gong to make a game that reads every single neuron in your brain and creates the best game for you so everyone will think it’s good

[copper spruce]

What did tom holland do

[hallow solar]

To be fair to holland, balancing charms is like REALLY hard

[shrewd nymph]

this issue is his charm rebalance

[forest mantle]

Bored

[carmine lava]

i just see him as another hk youtuber to occasionally use as background noise

[copper spruce]

Does spider man have shit takes on a bug game

[knotty ravine]

I prefer this over strength + qs + shaman and spam nail

or whatever the quote was

[keen thorn]

He did it wrong. But being fair every single charm rebalance attempt I've seen has done it wrong since balancing charms is so hard.
I don't even trust myself to do it that well.

[knotty ravine]

no you don’t! his hk makes it slow as shit!

[honest shale]

…and he consistently shit on tcs charm balancing

[hollow nova]

based

[shrewd nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/glaze-gif-8311813170669205912

[knotty ravine]

Hollands charm balance is INTERESTING! and not good in the big picture

[rich stone]

Yea making 40 things which are around equal is just super hard without extensive playtesting

[forest mantle]

Rebalance my take.
Simple. Earlier in the game the worse the charm. But still missable

[copper spruce]

Make everything cost 0 notches

[honest shale]

ykw fuck you every charm is gwomb

[shrewd nymph]

bring back lqslash

[keen thorn]

Good balance isn't only about outclassing things

[forest mantle]

For shop charms you can get the good ones but they are expensive

[hallow solar]

See like i hate this take

[verbal pasture]

Thorns STILL sucks

[copper spruce]

-4 notches

[cerulean perch]

Holland trying not to make random charms overpowered challenge (impossible)

[wind garnet]

Rude Levi

[shrewd nymph]

at how many negative notches does gwomb / thorns because viable

[hallow solar]

Every single person talking right now could not design an even half decent charm rebalance

[shrewd nymph]

that is the real balancing question

[hallow solar]

Including me

[copper spruce]

We should drag the fish that went to land back to the water

This sucks

[knotty ravine]

Charm rebalance

[cerulean perch]

That fish is us

[shrewd nymph]

well the first 3 words are really just not right

[sinful jolt]

is anyone else unable to re-challenge bosses in the Hall of Gods? Like it'll "reset" if I challenge a different one

[honest shale]

the difference is we dont claim to have one

[shrewd nymph]

i couldnt because i just metamance but there are people here who absolutely could

[keen thorn]

-1
You can now have both SB and NMG in a meta R5 build :D

[copper spruce]

Two horse women kissing

[cerulean perch]

Women kissing?

[shrewd nymph]

ok in r5 yes

[cerulean perch]

https://tenor.com/view/gwen-courtney-total-drama-gwourtney-gwen-x-courtney-gif-12342190487682122286

[forest mantle]

Maybe the charms arent the problem maybe just increasing slight damge of charms such as like thorns and such to make it HALF decent

[hallow solar]

Another take i heavily disagree with

[honest shale]

every charm is gwomb now every charm is equally balanced

[shrewd nymph]

thorns damage isnt really the issue

[shrewd nymph]

its just the iframes

[copper spruce]

Maybe just remove all charms so we don't have to worry about their balance

[honest shale]

no the fuck he cant

[tulip narwhal]

I miss l*vi

[honest shale]

let me go grab his jonis take

[forest mantle]

The goal of rebalancing ist to make everything equal but to make it possible to use any kit but good charms still good

[hallow solar]

Thorns is a one notch charm

Not a -2 lol

Thorns has a niche for NEW PLAYERS

[shrewd nymph]

reading comprehension strikes again

[shrewd nymph]

this is also not true

[digital grove]

they made it -2 in newest patch actually you should hop

[copper spruce]

All charms are equal but some charms are more equal than others

[knotty ravine]

I think -1/-2 and -2 respectively

[hallow solar]

I used thorns on my first playthrough

[verbal pasture]

“Nuh uh”
“Yuh huh”
“Nuh uh”
“Yuh huh”
Peak conversation

[shrewd nymph]

you think thorns is worse?

[cerulean perch]

wait till angel studios releases that planecrash

[knotty ravine]

I think so yeah most of the time

[cerulean perch]

It’s not even a trainwreck it’s just that much worse

[copper spruce]

Thorns should decrease ddark iframes

[keen thorn]

Yeah exactly
Some are bound to be better than others and that's ok
Some people can't comprehend this tho

Also in the art of balancing it's important to know what's healthy to be strong and what's healthy to have weak

Like in clash royale (ew but good example) having huts be viable is horrible for the game, while some spells like log are quintessential to counter most archetypes so it's ok to have them be strong

[knotty ravine]

also no holland cannot rebalance

[hallow solar]

You can’t either

[shrewd nymph]

bring back lqslash and make strength apply to nail arts

balancing is so easy

[digital grove]

SO true

[copper spruce]

They're gonna sell evo log

[hallow solar]

Fireborn can’t rebalance

[pliant bough]

hop on CR

[knotty ravine]

I think like every experienced player will tell you that

[vernal knot]

Hello everyone

[shrewd nymph]

afternoon mega

[vernal knot]

Hi Moone

[keen thorn]

In HK charms that make engaging gameplay (like dps or skill based charms) are good while charms that reward bad play (like minions) can't really be good and healthy

Of course not to the extent TC did because dps charms are too strong and minions are too shit

[cerulean perch]

My name is markiplier

[copper spruce]

I can pretend to be a pro player

[vernal knot]

Afternoon to you too

[forest mantle]

Heres my balancing
1 locations earlier in world map the worse the charm but like 1 good
Change a few damage out puts of charms so they are the best but they arent AS BAD still weak but better.
Better charms cost more in shops worse charms less. But not by too much

[keen thorn]

Ew

[pliant bough]

maybe gd

[hallow solar]

My opinion, make quick slash and strength worse

[shrewd nymph]

you should play league

[knotty ravine]

I can rebalance better because im willing to make nmg sexy

[keen thorn]

I almost beat DEADLOCKED

[shrewd nymph]

well yeah thats a given

[hallow solar]

Buff the bad charms and nerf quick and strength

[cerulean perch]

Charms aren’t a PROGRESSION MECHANIC in the traditional sense. getting more gives you more options

[vernal knot]

This chat is always on-topic

[pliant bough]

i saw 😛

[vernal knot]

It's so crazy

[shrewd nymph]

wait ur a genius

[vernal knot]

NMG is good

[shrewd nymph]

buff the bad charms, nerf the good ones

[hallow solar]

Not all the good ones

[cerulean perch]

And do nothing to Soul Twister because it is already very balanced

[hallow solar]

The no skill good ones

[vernal knot]

I don't think Sharp Shadow needs more buffing cro

[copper spruce]

Nerf quick slash to 2 notches
That'll teach em

[knotty ravine]

yes but I made it sexier

[digital grove]

i finally hopped ultrakill

[vernal knot]

How

[shrewd nymph]

i mean it needs a rework

[hallow solar]

Shaman stone is cracked but not unbalanced

[keen thorn]

Remove the damage from sharp shadow and make it 1 notch
Fixed

[shrewd nymph]

outrageous

[vernal knot]

Strength same

[forest mantle]

Ik however youd not use certain. Charms at ALL in game but if you did make it slightly progression based itd be more usage and unique builds

[knotty ravine]

honestly maybe

[hallow solar]

Strength is unbalanced

[frigid terrace]

If you laugh you go to hell

[forest mantle]

Thats my take tbh

[shrewd nymph]

top 3 charm not needing balancing is smt

[hallow solar]

Shaman is hard to use with good payoff

[vernal knot]

Fuck

[cerulean perch]

Longnail + dashmaster = Long Dash

[hallow solar]

Many players don’t want to use spells because they can rely on safe nail builds

[vernal knot]

It's Dashmaster but black

[hallow solar]

Like me until recently

[keen thorn]

It's not about range
It's about mobility and being able to close distances effectively

[hallow solar]

Spells need buffs

[shrewd nymph]

i still think it'd be cheeks

[keen thorn]

Also that combo is 4 notches

[shrewd nymph]

inconsistent dashes sounds miserable

[cerulean perch]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v0mfIfSXQV8&pp=ygUTbWlsZXMgdGhlIGJsYWNrIG9uZQ%3D%3D

[keen thorn]

It'd probably be Sprintmaster levels of ok, but that's fine for a mobility charm imo
Not everything has to be steady body

[honest shale]

Holland made jonis cost 3 notches. The same amt as lifeblood core. For the same amt of masks. While disabling healing.

[shrewd nymph]

i mean i prefer the opposite approach

[copper spruce]

Wouldn't that fuck with muscle memory regardless

[honest shale]

while its better its certainly not balanced

[shrewd nymph]

i think the damage aspect is its identity

[knotty ravine]

yea but sshadow isn’t THAT bad

[shrewd nymph]

and the distance is what ruins it

[copper spruce]

How else do we glaze it

[shrewd nymph]

guh

[forest mantle]

Unrelated to balancing but itd be cool if dash master increased the recharge rate for shade dash i forgot name im sorry

[vernal knot]

Shade Dash is good

Who the fuck is Mega

[knotty ravine]

the distance is the better part of sshadow so

[copper spruce]

I love SHARP SHADOW for allowing me to do SO MUCH DAMAGE rather than USE A SPELL

[unique badge]

Hey genio

[vernal knot]

What the fuck

[frigid terrace]

I mean SShadow would be a hell of a lot better if you had some way to control the length

[forest mantle]

Im but itd be cool if dash master increased rate of using it.

[strong blade]

chat wtf was pale kings problem bro 😭 ive been 3h stuck in white palae fuckass platforming for ghours like hell and no bench its 4 am i wanna sleep

[hallow solar]

Sharp shadow needs a minor buff

[shrewd nymph]

i mean its a low standard

[keen thorn]

Imo the damage makes it bad because it gives the illusion that it is good for that, so noobs start to love it and pros start to hate the fact noobs love something that suboptimal so they hate it

[honest shale]

i cant tell if this is a shitpost, ragebait, ir both

[strong blade]

Its you again..

[unique badge]

Genio should I also put 1k hours in my username even though like half of those are TAS? :3

[shrewd nymph]

i was thinking that but idrk how that'd be added

[hallow solar]

It’s not bad, but not good

[keen thorn]

Yes :3

[copper spruce]

Both

[vernal knot]

The longer you press it the longer you go?

[unique badge]

Fire :3

[hallow solar]

Sharp shadow is like the only mediocre charm

[vernal knot]

Steady Body

[copper spruce]

I have a tendency to get ignored by people I know regardless

[digital grove]

dreamshield op ngl

[shrewd nymph]

could be nice to have really high skill expression

[hallow solar]

Steady body is good

[frigid terrace]

Fuck that would be hilarious implement this

[vernal knot]

I won't ignore you

[unique badge]

Stalwart shell.

[copper spruce]

I am a figment of your imagination

[keen thorn]

A lot of charms are mediocre

Also @vernal knot no we're not having this argument

[forest mantle]

Lowkey dont like steady body

It disoriented me

[honest shale]

no you arent

[vernal knot]

What argument

[shrewd nymph]

mhm but i think the damage is just poor, whereas the distance is actively inhibiting
like a very low positive number vs a negative ifykim

[knotty ravine]

im posting my list fuck it the usual people can ignore it

[shrewd nymph]

sbody

[vernal knot]

Oh

[forest mantle]

Your choice

[hallow solar]

Most charms are situational, not mid

[vernal knot]

Well yeah It sucks, glad Genius agrees with me

[honest shale]

we just had an entire argument abt charm balance

[hallow solar]

Take hiveblood for example

[vernal knot]

Well I came in-late so let's do a repeat

[frigid terrace]

I think we should make it so that Thorns freezes you in place for 3 minutes after getting hit

[shrewd nymph]

which image is the charm tierlist

[knotty ravine]

fireredddddd hop on mejiro palmer PLEASE

[keen thorn]

The idea is to use the distance optimally
And people do this actually. I think it was atomic speedkill by Teni for example, that's an amazing use of sharp shadow

[honest shale]

NO

[digital grove]

one on the right imo

[vernal knot]

Why does the girl look like a horse

[shrewd nymph]

@quartz cave add zonyas to hollow knight

[shrewd nymph]

atomic?

[vernal knot]

I am

[keen thorn]

Atomic radiance

[vernal knot]

Is that good

[shrewd nymph]

ok but i mean thats modded

[frigid terrace]

Atomic is a forgotten fucking Radiance mod bruh

[keen thorn]

No

[vernal knot]

Forgotten is another

[keen thorn]

Sharp shadow having damage makes people grab it for damage which makes them get the negative since it's not what they want

[shrewd nymph]

i have seen some uses of the distance (@ greyfire) but i just think it messes you up too much still

[vernal knot]

Forgotten light or so

[rich stone]

Why is Carefree Melody in irrelevant

[shrewd nymph]

same with thorns guh

[verbal pasture]

Atomic is buns

[bitter jolt]

no anyrad and soup are both better

[digital grove]

where does sshadow get use in atomic rad

[honest shale]

yeah the forgotten radiance mod is called “the radiance”

[vernal knot]

In what context is AnyRad better than anything

[frigid terrace]

Atomic vs Any Radiance is quite frankly trash vs garbage

[bitter jolt]

every.

[keen thorn]

I mean that charm is just all around

[shrewd nymph]

there are some worse modded bosses tbh

also anyrad is better than galien

[verbal pasture]

Idk how this community has had 30 tries with modded rad and has made like 5 actually good rad mods max

[vernal knot]

I mean yeah but that's comparing like

[unique badge]

Meanwhile Orbsolute Radiance is peak shit

[bitter jolt]

soups one of them right

[shrewd nymph]

u should make one

[vernal knot]

Having to pee vs having to Poo, like one sucks but the other is worse

[keen thorn]

Atomic, prime, 1.0, 2.0, 3.0

[vernal knot]

It's not fair to the pee

[rich stone]

How is Galian worce than Marmu

[knotty ravine]

It’s irrelevant

[keen thorn]

And abskoth

[digital grove]

SO TRUE

[knotty ravine]

Quite simply

[hallow solar]

Never seen this discussion get so intense

[unique badge]

Oh fuck that reminds me I forgot to work on Any Marmu

[digital grove]

we are ALL hopping anyrad prime fr

[shrewd nymph]

marmu gets skipped by double shriek ddark in no bindings tbh

[verbal pasture]

No soup sucks

[vernal knot]

The worst part of Grimm troupe are the rewards

[storm flax]

Genio!

[shrewd nymph]

and marmu is single focus target

[keen thorn]

Spol!

[shrewd nymph]

galien is 4

[bitter jolt]

what why 😭

[honest shale]

but you see, if we try hard enough to make it impossible it will become fun again

[knotty ravine]

Atomic is… Lost medias?

[frigid terrace]

Newgen mode

[vernal knot]

Lost Media?

[rich stone]

Since I play a lot of AB Marmu feels horrible

[keen thorn]

I have atomic in my computer

[cerulean perch]

Unn’s Quick Getaway getting higher than all its synergy peers, niiiice

[storm flax]

nix?!

[verbal pasture]

It deletes the platforms in plats

[digital grove]

isnt atomic on that google sheet anyways

[shrewd nymph]

yeah no marmu still sucks ass in ab dont get me wrong

[copper spruce]

So called free thinkers when I say that sharp shadow is a top 3 charm

[unique badge]

Maybe even shrimply

Hi, Sonia

[vernal knot]

You've tried to ragebait with this twice now

Come on surely youcan do better

[vapid oar]

Carefree melody is pretty good in my opinion, but I have decent RNG

[bitter jolt]

fair enough

[hallow solar]

Sharp shadow is generationally painfully mediocre

To a fascinating degree

[vernal knot]

It's always Sharp Shadow sucks but never Why is Sharp Shadow Sucks

[knotty ravine]

Just equip lbcoreeeeee

[shrewd nymph]

carefree is mod reliant.. which isnt a great aspect

[cerulean perch]

But it looks kinda cool tho

[copper spruce]

Tbf I've been cryogenically frozen for 4 years and baiting with sharp shadow was the style at the time

[vapid oar]

I just like gambling tho

[knotty ravine]

I also wouldn’t even use it there

[hallow solar]

Sharp shadow doesn’t suck at all but it’s not good either

[vapid oar]

It’s the best part of the charm

[cerulean perch]

KRR! AW DANG IT!

[unique badge]

It kinda sucks ngl

[vernal knot]

Why do charm arguments always end up involving Sharp Shadow

[verbal pasture]

Top 10 worst ideas of all time?????????

[shrewd nymph]

neither but i dont think its absurd to use it with rng reset on like radkoth

whereas doing radkoth without rng reset is silly imo

[keen thorn]

Because sharp shadow is the most polarizi charm

[hallow solar]

What’s a mediocre charm besides sharp shadow

[rich stone]

It has an average 25% block rate so it's decent

[cerulean perch]

Sharp shadow = sharp dart

[vernal knot]

The talk could be about Good Charms and Sharp Shadow one way or another enters the scene

[storm flax]

@shrewd nymph

[vernal knot]

It's so crazy

[cerulean perch]

DarpShart

[honest shale]

bcs sharp shadow

[shrewd nymph]

inexperienced players love it, experienced players dont

[vernal knot]

Fair enough Genius

[vapid oar]

I can’t use sharp shadow bc of the extra distance, truly a skill issue on my part

[shrewd nymph]

@storm flax @storm flax @storm flax

[copper spruce]

Sharp shadow killed my wife

[hallow solar]

Name one mediocre charm besides sharp shadow

Name one

[shrewd nymph]

unbreakable heart

[copper spruce]

Strength

[cerulean perch]

You can’t swap the start of sharp and shadow in the same way you can for sharp and dart

[hallow solar]

Heart is good

[vernal knot]

No it's nt

[hallow solar]

Next

[storm flax]

HAI

[copper spruce]

Shaman stone

[rich stone]

Hiveblood

[digital grove]

but consider sharo shadow during pop speedrunning

[shrewd nymph]

yes because you couldnt possibly be wrong

[hallow solar]

Hiveblood is good in the right places

[vernal knot]

Only if I can Downdash

[storm flax]

I love heart

[shrewd nymph]

long time no see bromethius

[copper spruce]

Heart is a training wheels charm

[keen thorn]

Sprintmaster, lifeblood core, unbreakable heart, shape of unn, stalwart shell

[cerulean perch]

Lifeblood Core. Sure it’s the best lifeblood charm but like… it’s Lifeblood Core

[storm flax]

do not call me that 💔

[shrewd nymph]

worse version of elegy grubsong dfocus

[shrewd nymph]

sorry sonion

[digital grove]

well yes im not a monster

[vapid oar]

Both of the lifeblood ones

[vernal knot]

Shape of Unn

[rich stone]

Like not even the White Palace because Deep Focus and Grubsong exist

[storm flax]

fuck you

[shrewd nymph]

love u too

[cerulean perch]

It’s 4 crappy masks for 50% more notches than 2 good masks

[hallow solar]

Sprint is bad, core is bad, heart is good, Unn is… mid yeah, stalwart is bad

[vapid oar]

Kingsoul is just atrocious tho

[digital grove]

you are always allowed the mystical dmaster sshadow combo

[torpid basalt]

ur asking for more than half of the games charms

[storm flax]

❤️🏳️‍⚧️

[honest shale]

and yet i was recommended to use it for p5 shell binding

[hallow solar]

Ok update 2 mid charms unn and sharp

[copper spruce]

I may be shitposty but i can be lucid at times
Bitchslap them.

[hallow solar]

Mid and situational are different btw

[vernal knot]

Onion but son

[rich stone]

4hp to 6hp is a pretty huge difference especially against double damage bosses

[vernal knot]

Oni on

[cerulean perch]

lesgo lesbians

[keen thorn]

It is actually very good for mask binding, it's 50% more health
But that's about it

[cerulean perch]

https://tenor.com/view/gwen-courtney-total-drama-gwourtney-gwen-x-courtney-gif-12342190487682122286

[vapid oar]

Kingsoul is a buns charm

[storm flax]

What

[honest shale]

im not bitchslapping grey

[cerulean perch]

MY EXCUSE TO PROMOTE MY FAVORITE SHIP

[copper spruce]

What if they like it tho

[hallow solar]

Any other mid charms

[shrewd nymph]

shit i will

[keen thorn]

Normally it is 22% more health

[storm flax]

Fuck you

[cerulean perch]

INTENTIONALLY MISMATCHING FLAGS

[honest shale]

wait what

[vapid oar]

Grimmchild

[honest shale]

no

[vapid oar]

W companion

But it’s just kinda mid.

[digital grove]

i like longnail

[hallow solar]

Grim child is bad besides modded

[shrewd nymph]

longnail is like the most mediocre charm imo

[honest shale]

grimmchild is not mid hes ass

[digital grove]

wtf

wtffffffff

[hallow solar]

Grim child is not mid

[shrewd nymph]

sorry sorry

[digital grove]

heart breaking

[hallow solar]

More situational at best

[shrewd nymph]

spend 12k geo next time smh

[digital grove]

💔💔💔🥀

[hallow solar]

So still 2 mid charms

[digital grove]

TRUE why didnt i think of that

[hallow solar]

Tryna add a third

[honest shale]

like abs rad final is his only use

[keen thorn]

It's better than all other mediocre charms
It feels bad because the animation doesn't do it justice but from trying Dashless R5 I can tell you it is pretty good

[copper spruce]

I dont use nail lengtheners am I stupid

[keen thorn]

But still it's not the best

[shrewd nymph]

in what situation are you using gchild?? fog canyon?

[hallow solar]

Long nail is good

[honest shale]

no

[copper spruce]

Path of pain

[shrewd nymph]

not really

[digital grove]

i cant fit mop into my radiant builds so i use longnail instead

[copper spruce]

20% then

[shrewd nymph]

i only use mop in overcharm and i dont touch longnail

[torpid basalt]

glowing womb, grubberfly, stalwart shell, spore shroom, joni's blessing, and defenders crest

[copper spruce]

Womb is actively detrimental rather than mid

[shrewd nymph]

gwomb is bottom 2 charms in the game, not really mid

[bitter jolt]

team cherry should remove ddark from the game

[honest shale]

hb grimm

[hallow solar]

Sigh GLOWING WOMB is NOT MID it’s AWFUL

Elegy is situational

[keen thorn]

Excluding stalwart all of those are garbage useless pieces of trash

[lone snow]

says the guy who plays anyrad

[hallow solar]

Spore shroom is bad

[digital grove]

are we getting annihilated at 2.0 at the moment

[vapid oar]

Balders shell

[hallow solar]

Joni’s is bad besides for obtaining another bad charms

[vapid oar]

Good for new players tho

[hallow solar]

Defenders is bad

[bitter jolt]

I KEEP HITTING DDARK BY ACCIDENT FUCK THAT SHITTY SPELL

[shrewd nymph]

so elegy is situational but dcrest for kin isnt 💀

[digital grove]

😭😭😭😭😭

[hallow solar]

Oh forgot kin

[shrewd nymph]

elegy is only good because it pairs with grubsong

[hallow solar]

Yea no crest is absolutely situational

[vapid oar]

Elegy is carrying me flower quest

[honest shale]

just git gud
i say as i die to absrad

[torpid basalt]

deadass tried my best to say mid charms but genuinely theres more noob traps than there is truly mediocre charms

[shrewd nymph]

unbind it lwk

[hallow solar]

Still 2 mid charms

[bitter jolt]

im trying to shade soul but noooo hehe DDARK -2 msaks

[torpid basalt]

i'd say a real mediocre charm is sprintmaster

[copper spruce]

Is heart a noob trap

[unique badge]

Sometimes I think I should do more hk challenges (decomaster/architect maps, anyrad, etc), and then I remember that I don’t hate myself that much. Close though.

[honest shale]

elegy

[shrewd nymph]

its really easy to keep that number low if you just disagree with every charm

[hallow solar]

Why is sprintmaster mid

[digital grove]

surely 2.0 nail only first clear :gleeful:

[shrewd nymph]

1.0 unironically isnt that bad imo

[bitter jolt]

been cleared already

[keen thorn]

Elegy is garbage

[hallow solar]

Why is sprintmaster mid please explain

[shrewd nymph]

its double digit clears

[bitter jolt]

and the ONE time ddark is useful its fucking impossible to time it right

[digital grove]

i mean that as your first clear

[honest shale]

ehh the fragile part lends itself to not really being used by noobs

[digital grove]

not as worlds first clear

[bitter jolt]

fuck no

[keen thorn]

Sprintmaster is super niche
String when used correctly but the time rarely shines

[shrewd nymph]

doesnt work while in the air, which is where you are alot of the time

[torpid basalt]

u never are just walking in a straight line and if ur doing precise dodges you definitely don't want more walkspeed than u have

[digital grove]

removes the ddark issue methinks

its such a great idea

[vapid oar]

It’s good for flower quest

[hallow solar]

So situational, not mid

[bitter jolt]

i need shriek and shade soul

[keen thorn]

And still steady body is just better

[shrewd nymph]

debug to remove ddark

[vapid oar]

You can excuse any mid charm by saying it’s situational

[hallow solar]

For a charm to be mid it has to be both bad and good

Situational is good at its job but its job is rare

[bitter jolt]

sword wall sword burst and beam burst are so fucking annoying to deal with without shriek and shade soul

[torpid basalt]

i'd say dashmaster is mid too but it is situational because of downwards sharp shadow for i-frames

[shrewd nymph]

then why on earth is sshadow there

[digital grove]

nahhh we are ALL doing nail only 2.0 as our first 2.0 attuned clears

[honest shale]

mid and situational are not mutually exclusive

[bitter jolt]

i need it in very rare occasions though 😭

[torpid basalt]

not sharp shadow, shade dash lol

[vapid oar]

So it’s bad the rest of the time, therefore making it mid.

[digital grove]

smhh

[keen thorn]

It can be both
Elegy is situational but garbage while Dreamwielder is situational but really good

[shrewd nymph]

as our first anyrad clears fullstop

[hallow solar]

Sharp shadow is bad because low damage but good because it’s able to be used easily

[keen thorn]

And sprintmaster is situational and mid

[hallow solar]

Dreamwielder is actually just good

[shrewd nymph]

used easily might be the worst thing ive heard today

[sturdy vigil]

the sleepless nights are catching up i can hear primal aspids buzz in pharloom

[shrewd nymph]

to make it viable you have to be very very good with it

otherwise its just.. not worth it

[honest shale]

so why is sprintmaster situational and not mid

[hallow solar]

Sprintmaster might be bad tbh

It’s not good at its job

Increasing speed

[digital grove]

considering hopping anyrad but like that seems so booooringgggg atm

[sturdy vigil]

sprintmaster and dashmaster can be used to skip certain areas in PoP

[shrewd nymph]

sprintmaster is also only 1 notch

so that covers up alot of it

[honest shale]

im oretty sure i can find a use case for gwomb if i really tried

[hallow solar]

Unn is mid because it’s in a niche with another charm very similar to it that’s much better than it

[keen thorn]

Yeah but there's from situational to situational.
It can be good at its niche or it can be way too rare of a niche

[honest shale]

situational is irrelevant to being mid

[shrewd nymph]

maybe, but struggling to find out kinda speaks for itself anyways

[bitter jolt]

its pretty fun and chill

[vapid oar]

My problem with calling these mid ass charms “situational” is that other than that situation it sucks, therefore making it mid/bad

[hallow solar]

Good at its niche is good, rare niche is situational

[honest shale]

yeah i was agreeing

[keen thorn]

Yeah unn competes with QF which is op
You bring unn if you can't being qf

[shrewd nymph]

you can unironically call every charm situational if you stretch the niche enough

[digital grove]

why hop anyrad when i could hop immortal light tho :gleeful:

[shrewd nymph]

gwomb is great if i didnt have any other charm and my nail keybind was broken and i didnt have spells yet

[digital grove]

consider these things

[hallow solar]

Strength has a niche. It increases damage. Is strength situational? No, it’s niche is so common that its JUST good

[torpid basalt]

just use weaversong at that point its at least slightly useful

[bitter jolt]

its good for radiant boundless infinity summons only

[honest shale]

if the best players can find uses
but only the best players
its ass

[digital grove]

ew

[hallow solar]

My definition of good is to be good at a niche

[digital grove]

challenge made in hell no thank you

[hallow solar]

Definition of bad is to fail at its niche

[shrewd nymph]

sshadow

[hallow solar]

Mid is that is like fine I guess

[honest shale]

the point is that even if i can find uses it doesnt stop the charm from being complete dogshit

[hallow solar]

Situational is that it’s at least somewhat good at a niche that’s rarely going to be important

[rapid verge]

average charm discussion

[keen thorn]

It's niche
And as I said niche is not competing with quality.
You can be niche and good (dreamwielder), niche and mid (Sprintmaster), niche and bad (elegy)

[shrewd nymph]

i wish tbh

[torpid basalt]

LOL true

[shrewd nymph]

this one is worse than usual

[agile pewter]

The minions can hit 3.0 star

[hallow solar]

Glowing womb is bad at the niche of dealing passive damage

[shrewd nymph]

leon 3.0 when

[vapid oar]

Just because it’s situational, doesn’t mean the charm isn’t mid

[honest shale]

so strength is bad bcs it has no niche and instead its just always useful

[fallow grotto]

i so lonely 💀

[hallow solar]

Strength has a niche

[agile pewter]

No go away

[hallow solar]

Tf you mean it does not

[agile pewter]

[fallow grotto]

i wish i had a @ tem cherry in chat rn…

😔

[keen thorn]

Dps is a niche

[honest shale]

fair enough

[unique badge]

Why?

[hallow solar]

Strengths niche is increasing nail damage

[honest shale]

sure ig

[fallow grotto]

because i am so lonely

[hallow solar]

So is quick slash

[unique badge]

Surely flukenest tops the dps niche, at least for bosses

[fallow grotto]

think silksong hater think

[digital grove]

i thought you were the worlds best player on par with fireb0rn wtf

[shrewd nymph]

dshield

[hallow solar]

Flukenest

[vapid oar]

Everything is a niche if you try hard enough

[hallow solar]

That might be another mid

[unique badge]

Just as good as fire and cotton’s alt

[keen thorn]

They don't compete tho. Dps is just such a good niche you can bring more of them

[digital grove]

dshield OVERPOWERED

[keen thorn]

Also flukenest requires a lot of skill

[torpid basalt]

i don't think flat buffs to the knight is niche compared to other charms lol

[shrewd nymph]

ive only seen dshield used optimally like twice so seems pretty niche

[unique badge]

I’m just saying

[digital grove]

dshield got me my 3rd to last hit during my last pv speedkill it is very op

[hallow solar]

Ok what even is dream shields niche

[digital grove]

No way

[hallow solar]

What is it supposed to do

[honest shale]

what did firborn do
like legit i wanna know why hes grouped in with cotton

[rapid verge]

what were those specifically

[vapid oar]

The buffs are just overall buffs, they’re not niches because they’re used at all times

[keen thorn]

There's a niche (noun) and there's something that's niche (adjective)
A niche is the role something plays in the game while something being niche means the role it plays appears too rarely to be used often

[unique badge]

He didn’t do anything, “cotton’s alt” is a TAScord deepcut, it’s referring to @loud sparrow, who is NOT cotton’s alt.

[torpid basalt]

ah i see what u mean

[keen thorn]

Everything has a niche
But some charms are niche while others are generalistic

[rapid verge]

I've only ever seen it used "optimally" (whatever that means for dsheild) in that pv speedrun from suscat

[digital grove]

😭😭😭😭

[shrewd nymph]

holy necro but truuuuust me i did it first try

[honest shale]

ooh

[hallow solar]

What is dream shields actual niche

What is it meant to actually do

[shrewd nymph]

pure vessel speedrunning

[honest shale]

pure vessel

[digital grove]

exactly

[keen thorn]

Was lune just looking for people typing lune

[hallow solar]

Be a little broader

[unique badge]

@wind garnet confirm

[keen thorn]

Radiant pure vessel speedkill

That's literally it

[shrewd nymph]

i normally just search my name when i first open discord for the day

[hallow solar]

Broad not specific

[shrewd nymph]

rarely its important but normally i find smt funny

[keen thorn]

But I'm saying that's literally all it's good for lol

[hallow solar]

What is its niche not what it’s good at

[unique badge]

I genuinely have to do that for Cogfly sometimes because people will mention bugs or suggestions or issues and not put them ANYWHERE that I can see

[shrewd nymph]

why can a niche not be specific

[wind garnet]

Destroys projectiles and pure vessel speedruns

[hallow solar]

Strength is good for everything its niche isn’t everything

[shrewd nymph]

some people use it for oblobbles

[unique badge]

A niche is by definition specific, no?

[wind garnet]

And sisters of battle

[keen thorn]

That's what pinging is for but some people hate it too much making others afraid smh

[agile pewter]

Ponder

[pliant bough]

[wind garnet]

Agh