sk-lore

[craggy smelt]

maybe they thought that was how they maintained continuity itself as a cogwork being

"And lo, is eternity sustained. By Architect's claw, we welcome that final form, of dial and rotor, and soul gladly given.
The perfect, unfaltering voice."

[near jasper]

Younger phantom on godhome dlc

[blissful harbor]

prime phantom and prime gms are gonns be peak

great grand mother silk

[craggy smelt]

peak silk

pilk

[cinder remnant]

Y'all are sleeping on Grimm coming to pharloom

And then recognizing hornet as sister to the knight

[near jasper]

Pharloom isnt on enough life support for the trouppe

[cinder remnant]

I'd say after act 3 it's on the right level

Maybe just a gas stop though

[near jasper]

Grimm trouppe goes to wormways for a day to get food because brumm got hungry

[limpid summit]

Probably sent to kill Seamstress

It has a pin lodged in it

[near jasper]

Why not just cut the strings holding her house up

Or just send a with a ranged weapon

Or a flying dude

[near jasper]

Send a metal robot to the lava lake area to kill a random retired woman

[limpid summit]

Well she won

They needed the robot after all

[dreamy frost]

They should’ve sent Gary Samuels

[near jasper]

Why

[dreamy frost]

He’d kill seamstress

[tight creek]

Iconoclasm

[muted lantern]

Fourth chorus is deactivated in the state we find it because seamstress took it down, pinning her weapon into it's neck. Shes clearly strong enough to take on the chorus at it's full strength. Regular soldiers wouldn't have worked.

the chorus we fight is severely damaged and weakened

[near jasper]

Volt vessel her from below

Or just close the streams of air keeping her house up

[crimson sun]

Do we know why the first sinner is called that

[craggy smelt]

she was the first weaver to turn against their god

[crimson sun]

Ok

[amber root]

why there's only three Rhinogrunds?

[dire lynx]

she was the first bug locked in the slab

[dire lynx]

endangered species, like real rhinos

[craggy smelt]

wait, where's the 3rd one?

Far Fields, Memorium, and...?

[amber root]

at act 3

far fields

[languid trout]

What you guys think will happen in the new dlc

I think maybe life blood related

[dire lynx]

yup, lifeblood

[twin dragon]

I assume she didn't really fight it head on, but lured the chorus into a closed or unstable space to win

There are fallen rocks on the chorus

[craggy smelt]

something tells me it will be sad

though I wonder exactly how...

[languid trout]

Yea

Like it had a bit of a dark theme in the trailer but idk

[balmy rivet]

probably a new crest i think?

cuz of the dead body

in the trailer

[craggy smelt]

a new crest, and I think at least 2 new areas

pharloom bay and the 'lifeblood spire' area

[languid trout]

Yes I agree

[grim spear]

He is a annoying little cunt

I hate him

Address is

https://tenor.com/view/hornet-hollow-knight-hollow-knight-silksong-silksong-metro-man-dance-gif-9500969836292162482

[languid trout]

Yap chill

[grim spear]

Ok

Good

I will

Just…… one more thing

[languid trout]

…

[grim spear]

The Greater Will & The Elden Ring: An Outer God known as the Greater Will sent a golden star containing the Elden Beast, which became the Elden Ring—the physical manifestation of the world's laws.
Queen Marika the Eternal: Chosen as a vessel for the Ring, she established the Golden Order and the Erdtree. She removed the Rune of Death to grant her lineage immortality.
The Shattering: After the assassination of her son, Godwyn the Golden, Marika shattered the Elden Ring. Her demigod children claimed shards called Great Runes, leading to a devastating war that ended in a stalemate.
The Tarnished: You play as a Tarnished—exiles who lost the "Grace of Gold" but have been beckoned back to the Lands Between to defeat the Shardbearers and become Elden Lord.
Reddit
Reddit
+5

Ranni the Witch, also known as the Lunar Princess, is a major character in the video game Elden Ring, a demigod daughter of Rennala and Radagon who seeks to overthrow the Golden Order and usher in the "Age of Stars" ending. She appears as a four-armed doll, having abandoned her original body, and is a powerful sorceress specializing in frost magic, who guides the player through a significant questline that culminates in a unique ending. She is a central figure in the game's lore, known for her cold demeanor, her loyal protector Blaidd, and her goal to defy the Greater Will.

The Frenzied Flame is the most destructive force in Elden Ring, representing pure chaos and the desire to undo all of creation. It is an Outer God that seeks to melt the world back into a single, unified state of "oneness" by burning away everything that "divides and distinguishes," such as individuality, souls, and life itself.
YouTube
YouTube
+4
The Ideology of Chaos
Followers of the flame believe that the Greater Will made a mistake by fracturing the "One Great" into separate beings. They view existence as a cycle of suffering, despair, and sin that can only be cured by total incineration.
YouTube
YouTube
+4
The Three Fingers: The physical envoys of the Frenzied Flame, found deep beneath the capital of Leyndell. They embrace candidates for Lordship, searing them with fingerprint-shaped burns.
The Madness Ailment: Exposure to the flame causes "Madness," which manifests as yellow fire erupting from the eyes. Those afflicted often pluck out their own eyes, offering them as "Shabriri Grapes" to reach a "distant light

The Frenzied Flame is the most destructive force in Elden Ring, representing pure chaos and the desire to undo all of creation. It is an Outer God that seeks to melt the world back into a single, unified state of "oneness" by burning away everything that "divides and distinguishes," such as individuality, souls, and life itself.
YouTube
YouTube
+4
The Ideology of Chaos
Followers of the flame believe that the Greater Will made a mistake by fracturing the "One Great" into separate beings. They view existence as a cycle of suffering, despair, and sin that can only be cured by total incineration.
YouTube
YouTube
+4
The Three Fingers: The physical envoys of the Frenzied Flame, found deep beneath the capital of Leyndell. They embrace candidates for Lordship, searing them with fingerprint-shaped burns.
The Madness Ailment: Exposure to the flame causes "Madness," which manifests as yellow fire erupting from the eyes. Those afflicted often pluck out their own eyes, offering them as "Shabriri Grapes" to reach a "distant light

That’s all I had to say

[grim spear]

Have a great day

[unborn hamlet]

i have a question from the lore... is phantom sister of lace??

cause wen i was going to the fight i saw a zone with some kind of mirror and wen i used the needolin there was a ghost of lace looking at the mirror and phanthom had appeared

[fallow dune]

who's talking to who in that scene isn't very clear, but yes, Phantom is Lace's sibling, whether they're female or not is unspecified but the english translation uses gender neutral pronouns in the hunter's journal

[balmy rivet]

both lace and phantom are spun from silk my grandmother silk

phantom was like a failed prototype

[drowsy pawn]

Your grandmother silk? No, friend. It's OUR grandmother silk.

[balmy rivet]

uhh

what does that mean?

[drowsy pawn]

Communist meme

[balmy rivet]

?

ok...

[drowsy pawn]

Plus she's hot so we all have the right to take a turn—

[balmy rivet]

idw a turn

i thout this was for lore

[drowsy pawn]

I couldn't resist but to say it. Sorry brother 😭

[balmy rivet]

brooooo

[drowsy pawn]

Is Pharloom older than the Lands of Hollownest?

[solar gale]

Realest thing I saw on this server

[languid trout]

Ale I’m back

[quaint phoenix]

we don't exactly know but we do have more history on pharloom

than hallownest

and they share the void civilizations

[amber root]

what's this guy?

[dire lynx]

crab

[stray fog]

What's the lore of the slab keys? Do "heretic", "indolent", etc refer to specific criminals?

[stray fog]

The Weavers were already in hallownest when the pale king came iirc

So pharloom is older than the pale king's hallownest

[whole holly]

only one of them actually refer to first sinner, others are vague i think

[whole holly]

also Pharloom lasted longer, it is closer to Eternal Kingdom, compared to Hallownest

[short owl]

whos stronger gms or the radience

[foggy stratus]

Length wise, yeah. But in terms of potential I’d probably give it to Hallownest. Only reason it fell was because of a fucking moth that the PK couldn’t really stop. Pharloom was just doing absolutely deranged shit to its civilians for fun(Whiteward) and the god that basically killed them was entity avoidable on their part.

[foggy stratus]

Radiance since it took another Higher Being to kill.

GMS is strong but she definitely seems weaker. To me, at least.

[short owl]

fair

what if they add a void boss?

[foggy stratus]

I dunno.

[short owl]

the void has at least 2 higher beings that got eaten if not more

[foggy stratus]

What’s the second one?

[short owl]

radience and gms

did the void eat gms?

[foggy stratus]

She got all stained by it but it seemed that Hornet “killed” her to me.

[whole holly]

that's accurate, however Pale King's vision of Eternal Hallownest was propaganda, Mister Mushroom says Wyrms build kingdoms in their thrall, ages pass kingdoms fall

[glacial warren]

Yes.

[whole holly]

Radiance is definitely stronger than GMS, but comparasion is unique considering Radiance is strongest known Dream Manipulator, GMS is strongest known Soul manipulator, Lord of Shades is strongest known void manipulator

[foggy stratus]

Calling GMS the strongest soul manipulator is a very large claim. Same with Radiance.

Especially seeing as we’ve only seen a handful of each.

[glacial warren]

I think the one other Dream being that holds contention against the Radiance is the Nightmare Heart, though it’s more of a passive scavenger than a ruling God.

[edgy nebula]

craggler

[foggy stratus]

Those are the only ones we’ve seen. It’s entirely possible for there to be more dream higher beings.

[whole holly]

it is largely substantiated as haunting falls under category of soul manipulation, radiance's infection falls under category of dream manipulation, they are strongest known beings in their category

[glacial warren]

As for Soul wielding, i’m not entirely sure on the stance of the Grand Mother’s power in comparison to the White Lady or the Pale King.

[near jasper]

Life blood dude is probably a Dream guy

He has blue essence

[foggy stratus]

Just because they have essence doesn’t necessarily mean they’re a dream higher being.

[whole holly]

White Lady never really demonstrates it, or pale king, GMS definitely accomplished it as greatest scale that we know of

[whole holly]

dream higher being isn't even official term, Abyss Creature seemingly resides in dreams, also essence is related to dreams

[glacial warren]

Well. She accomplished ascending feral beasts into what we now see as the Weavers, though she was able to be laid low and put to sleep via arcane lullaby.

[foggy stratus]

She might be able to do it because she uses silk as a conduit. Just because I can turn all the lights on in my house with the flip of a switch doesn’t mean I can manipulate lightning very well.

[whole holly]

Haunting is strongest and largest known soul manipulation, her resistance to song doesn't really matter.

[glacial warren]

But remember, the Haunting itself was only successful due to a monumental screwup on behalf of Pharloom’s citizens. Had they not injected Silk into their bloodstreams, they might have avoided her control.

[stray fog]

I tried to figure this out

The heretic key leads to fs, even though she is the apostate
The apostate key just leads to a mask shard
The rooma unlocked by the indolent key dont seem to be linked with indolence at all

The indolent key is found at a location that doesn't seem to have anything to do with indolence?
The apostate key is found outside the slab so idk
The heretic key is found after defeating the people who stole hornet's cloak. So maybe the guy cosplaying as hornet was the heretic? He seems crazy enough. But if "apostate" refers to fs, then "heretic" referring to just a weirdo fly would be strange

So neither, the location of the keys, or the locations unlocked by the keys seem to have any lore significance

[whole holly]

false equivalence, Silk is derived from Soul and inherits all of traits of Soul, Silk manipulation is soul manipulation, fact that she turns her soul into silk is also soul manipulation, it still falls under category of soul manipulation.

[whole holly]

interesting for sure

[stray fog]

I guess these are referring to some other sinners that we don't get to see

[foggy stratus]

Or just generic crimes related to religion.

[whole holly]

not all bugs injected silk into their shells but vast majority of bugs are under Haunting regardless of who injected silk into themselves

[stray fog]

That could also be true

[whole holly]

yeah, possibly scrapped content

[near jasper]

And having a color of Essence dedicated to it

[stray fog]

Maybe the indolent key unlocks the cells used for indolent sinners? But then the first sinner is locked behind a heretic key instead of an apostate key

[glacial warren]

Like the Grand Mother is definitely strong, but still not nearly on the same scope as some of the other Higher Beings we’ve seen.

[whole holly]

other notable beings with dedicated color of essence are all Higher Beings, Godseeker or Grey Prince Zote

[whole holly]

she is strongest known soul manipulator

[foggy stratus]

Ah yes, my favorite God. Dream Zote

[glacial warren]

So far the mightiest of them all is beyond doubt Void Given Focus, given it was able to effortlessly pubstomp Radiance at the height of her power with barely a flick of its wrist.

[whole holly]

i mean that's strongest known void manipulator, so that makes sense

[stray fog]

That's the only powersclaing related thing everyone agrees on lol

[foggy stratus]

To me at least her use of silk seemed kinda simple. At least in her fight. She just kinda uses them as generic tendrils to throw stuff. Unless I’m forgetting something in her fight.

Yeah there’s the haunting but I’d imagine when fighting someone she’d put a little for effort into it at least.

[whole holly]

she manipulates soul at biggest scale

[stray fog]

Now that you mention it, gms doesn't use runes or binds. That's interesting 🤔

[foggy stratus]

Aided by her silk being basically everywhere already.

[whole holly]

she is implied to bind weavers, but she might be silk greedy and doesn't want to use her resources

[glacial warren]

I mean the Grand Mother isn’t really a being meant for combat, i’d say. She’s more a creator or a controller than a combatant.

[stray fog]

No silk based healing either

[whole holly]

that doesn't discredit her anyways, since she is primal source of silk

[stray fog]

True

Maybe not using magic is due to her "beastly nature"

It seems kinda beastly to fight with raw strength and no soul magic

[glacial warren]

In essence, getting to the Grand Mother is harder than beating the Grand Mother, as she’s more a puppeteer and sculptor than a warrior.

[whole holly]

don't confuse Strong Soul Manipulation to Advanced Soul Manipulation, Weavers, Shamans and Other Pale Beings do manipulate Silk at more advanced level but GMS doesn't because she wants to have more silk, not less

[foggy stratus]

Yeah but still ignoring the other two pale beings over “she spread silk everywhere” to me at least seems kinda off. Especially when Weavers seem to use silk at higher levels of skill.(and PV doing all of that bs soul nonsense in its fight.)

[glacial warren]

I don’t think she much cares about having more Silk considering she’s its primordial source. She even wields her Haunted Thread against Hornet in the Boss fight.

[whole holly]

so what? Grand Mother Silk's capabilities likely aren't as advanced because she doesn't want to deplete soul, but fact remains that she manipulates soul in biggest known scale

[whole holly]

she is heavily implied to as she searches for weavers to capture them, her usage of silk in her fight is most likely reusable

[glacial warren]

I think she’s more looking for Weavers because she wants her fled children back. She wants, more than anything, a ‘perfect’, loyal daughter. It is to this end that she created Lace and Phantom after the Weavers betrayed her.

[foggy stratus]

Being strongest would also require skill to use it. Being able to level a building with a single punch doesn’t matter if you destroy your shoulder throwing it. She’s powerful, yeah, but calling the strongest we’ve seen over just manipulating a lot of silk at once to me seems off, as I’ve said. Is she the strongest? Maybe. But I haven’t really seen enough evidence to call any one being ‘the strongest soul user’.

The most wide spread, yeah definitely.

[whole holly]

in my opinion, sheer strength depends on scale which qualifies her

[whole holly]

she binds escaped weavers, we don't see them after they are captured by citadel, Widow was loyal one so she doesn't count

[stray fog]

What if widow is the heretic?
Maybe these keys are referring to certain Weavers instead of sinners

Widow = heretic
First sinner = apostate
? = indolent

[whole holly]

well, in any case, it is deeply interestin g

[stray fog]

Widow seems kinda heretic-like

[foggy stratus]

Scale is definitely a factor, but sheer strength depending on it doesn’t make much sense tbh.

[glacial warren]

Exactly. The Grand Mother wants a Weaver willing to be her ‘daughter’. Anyone who resists or shows defiance is slain. In fact, Hornet’s Journal notes Lace would require enormous amounts of Silk to keep her fed, so the Grand Mother wasn’t really hoarding the substance given how great of a condition Lace is in. Physically, at least. Mentally? Not so much.

[whole holly]

Scale is biggest factor in my opinion, and production of silk itself is extremely advanced which is is source of

[foggy stratus]

What makes you say it’s “extremely advanced”?

[whole holly]

Lace is already thought to be perfect daughter she wouldn't need another one

[glacial warren]

I mean I wouldn’t say it’s ‘extremely advanced’. It’s more a unique skill held by a certain few.

[whole holly]

she is primal source of it and it is rare skill that weavers inherited from her

[foggy stratus]

Being rare doesn’t make it advanced.

[glacial warren]

Then why did the Grand Mother go so far out of her way to ensnare Hornet?

[whole holly]

Silk weaves runes, and is generally used to prolong life

[whole holly]

for her silk, most likely to sustain lace

[whole holly]

in my opinion, it is advanced, as capability is rare and can't be easily learned, unless you count Weavers

[glacial warren]

But the Grand Mother produces Silk in incalculable bulk on the regular, on account of her being a Goddess and its source. Why would she need Hornet’s meager supply?

[foggy stratus]

That’s kinda a baseless statement. Just because no one else thought of it doesn’t make it difficult or advanced. And for all we know some other place could have developed silk independently of Pharloom.

[whole holly]

Hornet is said to be sensed strong with silk, also GMS is not said to "produce Silk in incalculable bulk on the regular"

[foggy stratus]

For all we know it could be a less efficient method of using soul for general use so no one else bothered using it.

[glacial warren]

But she is the primal source of Silk. Her ‘hair’ is made of the stuff, and it fans out to tremendous lengths around her. Hell her cocoon she’s sleeping in gushes so much Silk that it’s shedding huge clumps of the substance en-masse constantly, to the point the Cradle is smothered in it.

[near jasper]

Question

[foggy stratus]

What’s your question?

[whole holly]

it wouldn't be less efficient, since it has greater purpose than Raw Soul, i mean that's baseless to claim

[near jasper]

Where do the silkeater cocoons get silk from

[whole holly]

so? doesn't mean it is not limited, at least in her perspective

[near jasper]

Sorry that took 20 minutes to send my wifi was bad

[whole holly]

it is rare skill for reason, if it was widespread and easily learned it wouldn't be rare

[foggy stratus]

More purpose doesn’t mean more efficient. You could cram a ton of purposes into something to the point it becomes less efficient to use that mega tool than to just use the individual tools.

[glacial warren]

I mean yeah she can run dry but this only happens when she’s overtaxing herself to the extreme making her little air bubble/dome in the Void to try and keep Lace alive.

[whole holly]

define efficient and also state how silk is less efficient that soul

[whole holly]

also Lace needs lot of silk to be sustained, it makes sense GMS wants more silk

[foggy stratus]

First I’m not saying it’s over all less efficient I’m saying it could be less efficient for just general use of soul, like casting spells. Efficient, to me at least, means being better or faster than other methods.

[glacial warren]

But again she already produces it constantly, why would she need more from an external source. Again the Cradle is all but drowning in the substance due to her mere proximity.

[foggy stratus]

Silk could be specialized for certain methods that soul is less good for. Like extending life.

[whole holly]

no one says she produces it constantly

[glacial warren]

She is the primal source. Source as in its wellspring, its origin point, its producer.

She makes Silk, put simply. Tremendous sums of it, given the state of the Cradle and the healthy, pale sheen in which Lace shines.

[whole holly]

i believe it is more efficient for storage, runes, creating constructs, silk skills, automating bugs, haunting kingdom, also Bind is faster than Soul, idk what to tell you

[foggy stratus]

Ah yes. It’s more efficient for silk skills. Skills that use silk. Methods of using silk that soul physically cannot copy as far as we know. Of course it’s more efficient!

[whole holly]

that doesn't mean she makes great amount constantly, even if she does lace still needs lots of it, scale is not explained in Silksong, so your point depends on knowing specific scale, which is irrelevant to game's lore

[near jasper]

Why dont silkeaters try to get the silk in Hornets Shell

[glacial warren]

We don’t need to know specifics, environmental storytelling gives us more than enough. Hell if she wanted more Silk she could look to the Whiteward. The Unravelled has more Silk powering it than probably all the Weavers put together, to the point it has achieved true immortality.

[whole holly]

i mean both Silk Skills and Soul Spells are spells but Silk skills is term for spells using silk, also why condescension?

[near jasper]

What are they even grubs off

[whole holly]

Lace stills needs lot of amounts, she is made from silk so she needs it time for time, you are not factoring in time, which we have no information about

[glacial warren]

Unsure. They’re able to be made by Styx down in Sinner’s Road, and it is said they are drawn to Silk and can detect it over vast distances. The form Hornet finds is probably a grub or larval stage of the creature.

[foggy stratus]

You said silk is more efficient for silk skills. It’s the only method of using silk skills. You couldn’t really use soul for a silk skill so why bother mentioning it in a comparison between soul and silk?

[near jasper]

Theyre called grubs in the description

Do they only eat silk made from soul or just regular bug silk

How does styx have like a full truck of silk to nest himself and the silkeaters in

[glacial warren]

I am indeed factoring time. And the Grand Mother has long since ran out of Weavers to hunt by the time Hornet is found, and yet she’s no worse for wear. She’s not desperately seeking out Bugs with Silk, or trying to siphon Silk out of those around her, despite the substance being absolutely everywhere in her kingdom, again especially in the Whiteward.

[whole holly]

because they are both spells though? but seemingly it is easier to create spells from silk, because there are more of them, also there are other points and fact that you only focused on one you could find disagreement with proves your argument is pedantic

[glacial warren]

Unsure, though there is plenty of loose Silk everywhere since he’s near Greymoor. He might have harvested fallen dregs and used it to make his nest.

[whole holly]

we still don't know how much silk lace needs, how often, or quantity or duration GMS produces silk in, you quite literally can not factor it in

[foggy stratus]

The only reason we find more silk skills than spells is because you find more weaver corpse things(and two examples of other silk skills) than you find Shamans in HK. Also what are your other points again I kinda forgot.

[near jasper]

wait silkeaters probably eat the soul from silk

Every room theyre in has silk that doesnt give soul

[glacial warren]

I mean we know she makes more than enough to have kept Lace healthy and hearty all these centuries, so she’s not running low anytime soon. Again she literally makes Silk, it’s not like she can stop producing it.

[whole holly]

"i believe it is more efficient for storage, runes, creating constructs, silk skills, automating bugs, haunting kingdom, also Bind is faster than Soul, idk what to tell you"

[whole holly]

how do we know that? though

[near jasper]

The silk near bell beast regrowing when its cut

[whole holly]

that could be gameplay or broken silk reconnecting

[foggy stratus]

I don’t know how to counter most of those other points. Also I’d call the Soul spells more powerful than the Silk Skills tbh. So it’s kinda a pointless argument to make on both ends I guess.

[glacial warren]

she is Silk’s primal source and a Goddess. Her ‘hair’ is made of the stuff and her cocoon gushes it relentlessly. She’s a deity whose sole purpose and unique attribute is that she relentlessly, constantly generates Silk.

[whole holly]

why are you asserting that GMS is not strongest known soul manipulator, what other individual compares?

[whole holly]

i meaning how do we know " she’s not running low anytime soon. "

[glacial warren]

probably the Wyrm.

[whole holly]

PK hasn't demonstrated soul manipulation at all, let alone equal scale of it

[near jasper]

The kingsoul has infinite soul

[glacial warren]

Again she’s in pretty damn great condition by the time Hornet wakes her up from her big nap. She shows no sign of the Silk wrapped and coiled around her body wearing thin or depleting.

[whole holly]

manipulation, not production

[foggy stratus]

Why are you asserting that they’re the strongest? And again it’s my opinion that she isn’t definitely the strongest. Maybe the strongest we’ve seen, by your criteria at least. But to me strongest needs skill as well as power, and GMS just doesn’t demonstrate skill to me

[whole holly]

visyal doesn't matter

[glacial warren]

Visual matters a lot with the Grand Mother, as 98% of her body’s outer layer plus her ‘hair’ is made of the Silk she generates. If she were depleting and desperate for more of it, we’d have seen signs on her body deteriorating.

[whole holly]

turning soul into silk, is already a skill, she doesn't want silk into spells because she is resourceful and haunting is biggest scale of soul manipulation, so i don't know what to tells you

[glacial warren]

But nope, she’s still in more or less prime form, granted this doesn’t stop Hornet from kicking her ass.

[whole holly]

visual cues sadly don't factor into lore, at least, not without concrete evidence

[near jasper]

Why dont silkeaters get haunted

[foggy stratus]

Yes it’s a skill, but nothing from what I’ve seen indicates it’s particularly difficult. Especially when you compare it to the bs the PV could do.

[glacial warren]

It factors in immensely here. The Void incident clearly shows the Grand Mother having finally depleted her reserves of Silk, her hair ran thin and her body losing almost all of its outer layer save a few final threads.

[whole holly]

Pure Vessel sure uses Soul but his skills don't really matter when scale is exponentially low compared to GMS's haunting

[whole holly]

it doesn't, Visual Cues don't prove anything because they are not concrete evidence

[near jasper]

Why dont silkeaters do anything when they are being held by a being that has silk inside itself

[glacial warren]

It’s concrete enough to me. It took her being dunked in the Void Sea and basically overtaxing her Silk production to the point the amount used outpaced her natural generation for her to finally run out, and even then she did all of this in the name of saving her daughter.

[near jasper]

I mean theres also the fact shes got an untreated amputation that could be messing up her silk

[foggy stratus]

At this point I feel like we’ve kinda just went in a circle tbh.

[glacial warren]

Well she can’t exactly focus on spinning herself a new arm at the moment, given her condition.

[near jasper]

But not like

Closing the wound?

[whole holly]

fact is visual cues are implication, not proof, regardless of your opinion, visual cues aren't considered evidence because they don't meet standard of evidence

[glacial warren]

Mother instinct overrides her self-preservation in these moments. All her focus is on shielding Lace.

[whole holly]

that's true, i don't know what to tell you, if you are biased toward Pure Vessel

[foggy stratus]

Hm, I wonder why I might(not saying I am) be a little biased towards them…

Anyways, I feel like we’ll just keep going in circles so good bye I guess

[glacial warren]

It’s called environmental storytelling.

[near jasper]

Wait

Styx might be the full grown version of a silkeater

He nests in silk

Doesnt get haunted for god knows why

Serves a mistress, like how silkeaters have queens

He's not any species we've seen

No face

[foggy stratus]

Isn’t that Huntress the same species as Styx?

[whole holly]

still doesn't meet standard of evidence

[whole holly]

thanks for unintended honesty, good bye

[glacial warren]

Then by that logic, there’s no evidence for anything, anywhere.

[foggy stratus]

I wasn’t saying I was biased, I was asking why because my profile picture and name are spins on Pure Vessel. As a joke, ya know?

[near jasper]

No

Thats just his mask

[whole holly]

no, that's not reason at all

[whole holly]

there is, but visual cues aren't enough, there is pretty consistent standard for evidence

[foggy stratus]

Then what is the reason?

[whole holly]

your arguments

[foggy stratus]

Explain then.

[whole holly]

you ignore scale or raw power when it comes to pure vessel, considering that GMS dwarfs PV in that regard

PV might be most skilled Soul Manipulator but GMS is most powerful Soul Manipulator that we know of

[foggy stratus]

I never claimed PV could beat GMS, I was using PV as an example of superior display of skill. Scale is a factor but from what I could see in your arguments it was the only reason you used to claim GMS was the most powerful soul manipulator. And in my opinion she doesn’t display much raw power with her silk, mostly using her environment to attack Hornet in her fight.

[heavy spire]

Isnt silk just a specialised version of soul?

[foggy stratus]

Yea.

It’s like wiring while soul is raw electricity.

[heavy spire]

so i mean like. Yeah compared to what people do with soul, GMS doesnt really display much power with her silk apart from the haunting, which was largely just because bugs already had silk implanted into their shells over generations

[whole holly]

what do you mean raw power, she displays that by haunting and producing what incalculable amount of silk and ascending weavers

[foggy stratus]

Wait weren’t you saying that GMS wasn’t producing large amounts of silk earlier or was that someone else?

[foggy stratus]

Also that’s more so spread of power, not raw power.

[whole holly]

haunting was not only happening because of whiteward experiments, with that logic scarr shouldn't be haunted

[whole holly]

someone else

[heavy spire]

They were arguing about if visual cues were evidence or not because someone said GMS is running low on silk in the void

[whole holly]

i don't think that's full story

[heavy spire]

I never said ONLY, i said mostly

[whole holly]

most of haunted bugs weren't whiteward victims though?

[whole holly]

strength

noun
the quality or state of being physically strong.
the influence or power possessed by a person, organization, or country.
the degree of intensity of a feeling or belief.
the extent to which an argument or case is sound or convincing.
the potency, intensity, or speed of a force or natural agency.

[whole holly]

GMS is strongest known soul manipulator if we use most of those definitions

[foggy stratus]

She’s the only example we have of someone doing widespread soul manipulation. Calling her strongest is just because she’s the default. Call her something like strongest known because that’d be more accurate.

[whole holly]

i literally did say strongest known just about now and in earlier messages also saying strongest already means strongest known because nobody knows everything

[foggy stratus]

You made it out like she was the absolute strongest from what I was seeing.

[whole holly]

where

[heavy spire]

The entirety of the citadel was and a large amount of greymoor (i assume), and most of the other haunted bugs were not sapient (like the mossgrubs etc), which likely means they have less willpower to resist the haunting. The only few that arent whiteward victims with actual willpower are pilgrims and skarr, one of which mistake the haunting for the song of their ruler, and the other which blindly believe everything to do with the citadel is holy therefore are, more susceptible to the haunting.

Idk it seems like most of the bugs able to resist GMS had silk in their shells already

[foggy stratus]

Two of them are dicey and the first one is kinda a stretch. Two ones I’d agree with you on her being strongest by definition, two that just don’t apply and one that’s iffy on the matter.

[heavy spire]

Maybe thats just my opinion tho

[whole holly]

haunting is also active process even new pilgrims can be afflicted by

[whole holly]

i would say that's new direct influence

[heavy spire]

i mentioned pilgrims being more susceptible to the haunting in my message

[whole holly]

any answer on this?

[foggy stratus]

Doesn’t the carekeeper dude at the first shrine say that the silk is passed down from parents to children meaning that it’s a problem that the newly born pilgrims would be more susceptible?

[foggy stratus]

Working on it.

[whole holly]

i mean newly arrived pilgrims from bone bottom that get haunted

[foggy stratus]

Ok, I’ll concede I was probably misremembering things. Or just didn’t look back far enough.

[whole holly]

it is also active process by GMS

[whole holly]

she sends down strands, not just snare or control them

[heavy spire]

Yeah.. and the bugs she’s sending down strands to (you guessed it) have silk in them

[lucid sinew]

hey, random theory I was thinking, maybe Widow had some part to play in GMS waking up and starting the haunting? Like we find a memory of her up in the cradle playing music on the silk just as she was doing above bellhart. I assume others have thought the same thing

[whole holly]

but control is already enough to assert that she is strongest known soul manipulator

[heavy spire]

Im like pretty sure hornet literally says its easier for GMS to haunt bugs because her silk finds the silk in bug’s shells and goes towards them

[whole holly]

lot of victims are also newly arrived pilgrims, generally speaking, how does your arguments even discredit GMS from being strongest known soul manipulator

[lucid sinew]

the only question is what was widow doing beforehand? Like, timeline wise, she gets her mask removed and pins placed in, probably punishment from her sisters. Then she dissapears? Maybe locked up in the slab. And then she gets a new cloth mask and starts helping to guide the haunting.

[whole holly]

Grand Mother Silk Hunter's Journal entry: "The higher being's threads stretched throughout Pharloom, snaring its bugs and driving them to madness and discord."

[heavy spire]

It was in dialogue not in the hunters journal

It was either hornet or caretaker

[whole holly]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Grand_Mother_Silk

Heart of the Haunting, long lulled to slumber and desperate to wake. The higher being's threads stretched throughout Pharloom, snaring its bugs and driving them to madness and discord.

[whole holly]

it is not exclusive to bugs that already have silk in their shells

[lucid sinew]

I'm not sure about that.

[heavy spire]

Again, dialogue. Hornet says „The children born of them, and all the pilgrims after... The Silk has seeded deep into this kingdom's shells, generations deep... No wonder Pharloom's bugs proved such easy prey for that haunted thread. It had only to seek for itself to reach them.”

Silk literally just had to look for her own silk

[lucid sinew]

Yeah, it's like microplastics, you don't even need to have it injected surgically. It gets in the air and in the water, so even distant tribes like the ants, crawbugs and stilkin end up with silk inside them

[whole holly]

that doesn't discredit my point, though, i already provided counterevidence that she can also actively haunt new hosts, like Garmond's Village fell victim to haunting

[whole holly]

how does it make her less strong though, people are trying to imply that silk actively being distributed was only reason of her haunting, but she can consciously haunt bugs

[limpid summit]

It’s weird for the pilgrims but like

They’re probably from neighboring lands or something

These poor pilgrims, all born bound to the cruel system of our world

Assumedly this implies the vast majority of pilgrims have traces of silk in them

[heavy spire]

Yeah but we dont exactly know WHERE garmond’s village is. If it was still in pharloom then the silk would STILL be getting into their system via the food they eat, medicine they use, etc

[limpid summit]

It’s probably close enough that the dregs spread

[heavy spire]

Yeah

[lucid sinew]

I think the big example we have of GMS shooting her silk into bugs without them already having it inside them were the pharlids, though I wouldn't say they were 'haunted' the same way as we see in enemies since they still had wills of their own

[heavy spire]

agreed honestly, i believe all the other bugs in pharloom already have at least a bit of silk in them

[lucid sinew]

I was going to say maybe the bugs in bellhart were haunted without silk already in them? Since Widow has to come and guide the strings manually to ensnare them, and after the strings are cut they aren't haunted anymore? But maybe there's something about the bellvein that makes it harder to be haunted

though then again no because all those fluffy enemies in the tunnels above and below are haunted

[heavy spire]

i mean i’d imagine it’d be pretty hard to guide strands of silk through layers upon layers of crammed together bells? So maybe the furms are just easier to get to

[lucid sinew]

true, haunting beasts might just be easier than haunting thinking bugs

[heavy spire]

But also what widow seems to do is more than haunting them since she entirely ensnares them in the air

[heavy spire]

Yeah this seems to be the case tbh

[lucid sinew]

true, what she's doing is like Premium Advanced Haunting. Like, in mosshome we see some slight simialr stuff, there's pilgrims standing around with silk attatched to them from the ceiling, but Widow is basically kicking that up to 11

[heavy spire]

Yeah

Haunting in HD pro max

[lucid sinew]

I really wish we knew something about where the hell Widow was in the time between the reign of the weavers and the beginning of the haunting. I think she's a really crucial puzzel piece in some way but I can't figure it out 🤔

[heavy spire]

Real tbh

[neon silo]

I have no evidence for this, but it is a cool idea: What if somehow the choirbugs also captured Herra, assuming the true ending is the godhome ending, and Herra was turned into widow somehow. It seems like Bellhart couldn’t have been haunted for too long since nothing is in ruins.

[oblique dove]

yeah but to get godhome ending you have to get all dreamers + voidheart

[neon silo]

I don’t remember needing dreamers but ok

Just a cool idea I wanted to throw out

[whole holly]

doesn't matter, though... it doesn't affect my argument in any way

[oblique dove]

+the body of herrah is deformed whilst widows is normal

[neon silo]

I looked it up and you actually don’t need to defeat dreamers for p5. As for the other thing, like I said I have no evidence other than that it would line up chronologically

[foggy stratus]

It’s possible that the dreamers just fucking die after ETV.

[neon silo]

Yeah. It would be a really cool tragic story though.

[glacial warren]

Well we know she’s just sort of been gallavanting about while worshipping the Grand Mother, if her Needolin dialogue from the Cradle is any indication. Like Lace, she stalks Pharloom, going about in her fanaticism.

[lucid sinew]

that makes sense, I wonder though if she was gallivanting about whilst the conductors ruled? during her mothers long slumber. Maybe she was waiting for the opportunity to sneak in and start stirring GMS to wake

[glacial warren]

I think she was a resident of the Slab, and escaped once Pharloom fell.

[lucid sinew]

I think you might be right, that'd make the most sense

though we don't find anything in the slab that hints towards her once being a resident there

[glacial warren]

Like there’s a bit of lore dialogue that claims a sinner had committed an ‘unnamed Sin’, and was punished by ‘Casting’. And we see those big Pins in her spine…

[lucid sinew]

she doesn't get an en-suite cage like first sinner

[lucid sinew]

ohhhhh that's a good lead!

actually that's a really good lead. 'Casting', she was literally cast out by her sisters

[glacial warren]

So we don’t know what exactly she did that got her chucked in the loony bin, but it’s possible the removal of her mask and the Pins wedged into her spine was her punishment for whatever godless act she committed in her madness.

[lucid sinew]

The godless act might have been her continued loyalty to GMS

thats why the sin was unnamed

[glacial warren]

I think it’s moreso Casting as in like. The torture method. She has Pins Casted into her spinal column, stopping her from naturally producing Silk.

[glacial warren]

I think this might also be why the Sin was redacted, as only very few Bugs were meant to know the Grand Mother existed.

Either that or whatever she did was so atrocious it simply couldn’t be named out of posterity.

[amber root]

what is these faces on the walls at this part?

[glacial warren]

Skulls of the giant, ancient beings that comprise most of the Marrow. They’re the, very literal, foundation upon which the mountain sits on.

[amber root]

cool

[twin dragon]

Could be first sinner but her sin remained named

[lucid sinew]

yeah, the other thought i had was since her mask was removed that meant whatever personality she had beforehand was erased. Which might mean that her current fanaticism and love for GMS only came after getting the cloth mask she has now. She might have been totally different beforehand and as you said could have been punished for something else

[twin dragon]

in one of the obscure logs

[glacial warren]

Yeah the First Sinner was listed as ‘First of the First’, hence the name ‘First Sinner’.

[lucid sinew]

yeah but the sinner has her punishment listed on the front of her cage as 'Constriction'

[glacial warren]

All we know is she’s a madwoman who delights in using Bugs as sacrifices for her Goddess.

[lucid sinew]

certainly the state she's in when we find her

[glacial warren]

I mean really if we look at it logically, the Grand Mother has no one but herself to blame for the ultimate fate of her and her kingdom.

It was all her actions and the mistreatment of her subordinates that made the domino effect Hornet is now seeing the results of.

[lucid sinew]

oh absolutely, total control freak

[glacial warren]

Like for all the faults of the Pale King, he at least made more an effort for diplomacy between the neighboring tribes.

[lucid sinew]

and the weavers learnt all they know from her, just recreating exactly what she did to them

[glacial warren]

He made peace with the Mantises, even helping Deepnest’s queen with her wish for a daughter and simply respecting the Hive’s space.

[lucid sinew]

pale kings a real interesting one. I don't totally subscribe to the idea he was a complete paragon, I think there was certainly some selfishness to him, telling his subjects he created the world and what not. But his intentions were not soley selfish

[glacial warren]

Meanwhile the Grand Mother looked at Verdania, the Skarr, Nyleth’s forest, and the Crustkind’s domain and was like ‘nah who cares? Just bulldoze all of them.’

[glacial warren]

I think a lot of his embellishment came from his people rather than from the King himself.

[shell pine]

Wasn't that just the weavers?

[lucid sinew]

thats true, we don't have any word of mouth of what he directly said about himself, but idk

[glacial warren]

Again he was an infamous recluse despite being a God-King, to the point no one ever really saw the man himself in person.

They worship him through Idols and his iconography’s everywhere, but the Bugs of Hallownest worshipped a deity no one ever truly saw, so a lot of what they thought their lord did and was capable of was left to their interpretations.

[lucid sinew]

also, he did take like half of greenpath and turned it into the queens gardens. don't know if the mosskin would have been totally cool about that, and that's not even taking the big road going through their lands that the king put up.

like, maybe they agreed to the road, but like, was it anyway mutually beneficial?

[foggy stratus]

They let the PK do that from what I remember.

[glacial warren]

That was the White Lady’s doing, not the King’s.

[foggy stratus]

The road at least.

[lucid sinew]

Okay, but the White Lady and the Pale King are partners. And there's a giant statue of the king in the gardens

[glacial warren]

There’s a lore tablet near Greenpath’s border where the Mosskin describe a warning about a ‘Pale Being’ having taken up shop past a certain point. They coexist with her and believe her benevolent, but they warn that she does not ‘share our Dream’.

[lucid sinew]

that's true, but i remember the wording being "she may appear benevolent"

[foggy stratus]

Might’ve been the WL’s doing.

[glacial warren]

So Unn and her kind just sort of let the White Lady vibe so long as she didn’t intrude too deep into her neck of the woods.

[random harbor]

Lore Tablet: Greenpath - Near Queen's Gardens

Though once our lands, a pale being lays claim to the caverns ahead.
It may appear benevolent but it does not share our dream.
Be wary to wander that place.

@lexmolten used /lore-tablets area: Greenpath name: Near Queen's Gardens

[glacial warren]

Ye. They were just sort of wary of her, but ultimately left her be since she made no effort to expand her borders.

[lucid sinew]

"Though once our lands"

"A Pale being lays claim to the caverns ahead"

that doesn't read as them letting her take up shop

[foggy stratus]

I remember a discussion on whether WL stole the land from the Mosskin or if it was abandoned and then WL took it.

[glacial warren]

Like they tell their brethren to be cautious entering the White Lady’s land but notably do not forbid entry outright. So they believe her harmless enough to explore her chunk of the forest, but remain wary of her presence since she’s a different Goddess from the one who made them.

[foggy stratus]

“Though once our lands” does imply they just sorta abandoned them and then “a pale being plays claim to the caverns ahead” makes it sound like she took the after this abandonment.

[glacial warren]

It’d be interesting to know if there was correspondence between Unn herself and the White Lady.

Like the Lady must have sensed another of her kind nearby, under all the acid.

[cinder remnant]

I don't think unn is a pale being

[foggy stratus]

Correct.

[glacial warren]

Unn’s still a Higher Being, as in a Deity.

[cinder remnant]

So I don't know if WL could sense unm

[glacial warren]

I mean the White Lady’s root system extends pretty far, and Gods tend to have a sort of sense of when another of their kind is in proximity.

[muted crypt]

i js beat lost lace yesterday but was busy after i beat her. that shit was insane, and the knight came to?? what the heck. and they were the shade lord with all their siblings and they were older as you can tell from the horns. so may someone please explain it more in depth? i’m also sort of confused lore wise? only a little.

[lucid sinew]

I just interpret the words that way. It reads to me like "these were once our lands, but then a pale being laid claim to them and they don't belong to us anymore."
Still, they were allowed to wander that place so It's not like they were ruthlessly kicked out, I just don't think it was an entirely chill arrangement. The mosskin let them do it because they didn't have any power to challenge otherwise.
This is my interpretation though, I'm perhaps more skeptical

[limpid summit]

Silksong takes place after either dream no more or embrace the void, where TK has united the void and is a higher being

It basically comes in and saves us

Somehow

[glacial warren]

Ye. Again it would be interesting to know if there was ever communion between Unn and the Lady.

[limpid summit]

The horns and the siblings are the same shapes it takes in both endings

[keen vector]

hey lore people

[lucid sinew]

agreed.

[keen vector]

I have a question

[muted crypt]

anything more in-depth? it feels kind of…..strange? and what about lace and hornet? + are they like cool w each other now? do we know? i think they are….

[limpid summit]

They’re probably chill

[lucid sinew]

on the menu screen you can see both their weapons planted in the ground, which kinda says they're hanging out

[limpid summit]

Because GMS gave up her power, Lace might be self sufficient

[limpid summit]

Ask away

[foggy stratus]

I feel like it’s meant to be interpreted as the lands used to be theirs then they lost it and afterwards WL took the area since it wasn’t being inhabited.

[limpid summit]

Not really it’s pretty hype moments and aura but it’s sort of a deus ex machina

Unfortunately there isn’t much to it

[lucid sinew]

fair enough

[limpid summit]

It could be either but I like this idea

WL isn’t really a colonizer

And we don’t know when Unn weakened

[glacial warren]

Yeah the White Lady seems pretty passive.

[muted crypt]

aw…may someone also please explain lace as a character? when i first met her i realized that they were using the hornet formula, especially since i saw in the hunters journal that i must fight her again…but throughout the story she remains antagonistic unlike hornet, she wants to like…kill her mother aka gms or smt? and she wants to reek havoc upon pharloom? but after we save her we become chill w her in the true ending….also js before we enter act 3…why does she save us from going into the abyss w gms? how does she become lost lace? i thought she died after our fight in the cradle? what exactly is she? and why is her and gms evil?

[limpid summit]

Lace is a perpetual child made entirely of silk by GMS

GMS made her (we don’t know when) but she chafes under GMS’s authority while simultaneously trying to please her and keep Hornet away from her

[keen vector]

In hk void is depicted as solid mass/liquid and in the surface of sk. yet when hornet descends into the void with the ever bloom, it’s shown as a murky liquid with void tendrils, why is that? Is it the cocoon of lace and gms or the ever blooms doing?

[limpid summit]

Likely the everblooms doing but it’s a bit weird still

It pacifies the nearby void into liquid and the tendrils just form farther away

[keen vector]

ahh

[limpid summit]

Letting you live was my rebellion, spider. I've denied my mother your silken strength. I've won.
She can thrash, and waste, and know her pathetic, broken child caused the mortal wound.

She saves us from GMS as a form of rebellion against her

She becomes lost lace in the same way blackthreading works

Void mixes with her silk

[keen vector]

That’s not how black threading works tho

[muted crypt]

i think the everbloom, or the delicate flower, is a hearty force that repels darkness and especially allows the bearer cleanliness, however it has a big achilles heel and is very weak if someone or some powerful force even has the small intent to break it, thus why in voidheart the delicate flower breaks so easily if you are not careful. but it can also magically infinitely grow and it’s main intent is to reject the void. sort of like yin and yang…light and darkness

[limpid summit]

Yeah it is

[keen vector]

it corrupts and takes over the soul(?) and makes them voided, while in laces case the void is eating her from the outside,

[limpid summit]

That’s all voided silk

[keen vector]

that’s why we can save lace not garmond

[limpid summit]

Since GMS’s silk is pure soul

[twin dragon]

void-proof ass

[grave cliff]

so why doesnt the underworkers just get out

[blissful harbor]

is it just hers

or all* (weaver silk) silk

is silk not just woven soul

[edgy nebula]

theyre still brainwashed into believing that what theyre doing is worthy and that theyll soon be able to ascend to the citadel

[near jasper]

Brother I can barely get out in my own playthrougjd every entrance is one way

[grave cliff]

when i seen that the confession booth was just a useless robot standi paused my gameplay for 5 minutes

and just felt sooooooooooo bad for them

i wouldve cried if i knew the lore

[neon silo]

Honestly I think it is just because it’s too hard to show Hornet diving in a completely opaque liquid. They just showed it like that so you can see what is going on

[foggy stratus]

<@&283547423706447872>

[narrow spear]

Hi guys, does anyone have a tip to get the Steel Soul achievement? I've already done 43 out of 63 achievements, this one is tough.

[limpid summit]

Play super defensively with a lot of tools

So grind regularly for shards and rosaries to get expensivetools and items TC expects you to come back later for

#sk-help might be better

[viscid whale]

out of 63 sounds more like hollow knight

(so #hk-help )

[narrow spear]

In general opinion, how many hours on average did you take to beat Hollow Knight: Silksong?

Thanks, man. I've been trying for 7 days and I can't get through.

[limpid summit]

Oh true

[blissful harbor]

go beast crest and destroy everything

[tacit crown]

a comparison that @ Unpaler in the art discussion channel noticed

[lone folio]

I mean

They are somewhat similar

[limpid summit]

I could see it

But timeline wise the Hallownest weavers might not even know that they’re descended from Pharlids

Because they left before FS was caged

[random aspen]

ts is like comparing the bell beast to the giant corpse in green path

its less far fetched but still

[finite cave]

99% sure that's the dead sire's coffin

[random aspen]

ari gibson was just drawing shit

[finite cave]

i refuse to believe it's him tho

[lone folio]

<@&283547423706447872> this is 99% something bad

[near jasper]

Are we sure?

[dire lynx]

the cyndril weavers fled before the construction of the citadel (and by extension the slab)

[foggy stratus]

The what’s?

The fuck is a cyndril weaver?

[limpid summit]

The weavers that left Pharloom to escape GMS’s silken sight, as described by the rune harp and world map in Weavenest Cindril

Herrah was one of them

[foggy stratus]

So are there multiple types of weaver or is cyndril weaver just typical weavers?

[limpid summit]

Nah nah it’s not like a species thing

Cindril weavers is just shorthand for that group

You could also say like Hallownest weavers

[foggy stratus]

Batches of Weavers then?

[limpid summit]

The weavers who fled

[foggy stratus]

Fuck this is confusing.

[limpid summit]

Yeah but like that’s pretty much it

We don’t know of any other factions among the weavers

Presumably they all just went to atla

[midnight reef]

I think subspecies/groups within the Weavers makes sense, mostly due to Herrah being Herrah and the Weavers of Hallownest being notably shorter

But I think the Weavers left all at once, as many of them as they physically could get to leave

Different groups of the Weavers where busy doing different things before they left

You had the Weavers in the Citidel overseeing it, and transfering control to the Conductors

[kindred ingot]

what's the topic today?

[limpid summit]

The thing is the lore tablets and rune harps don’t really make sense in that way

[midnight reef]

The Weavers of Murglin working on weaponry to destroy GMS
The Weavers of Cindril mapping the ways to leave Pharloom, and the tools to assit in their departure
The Weavers of Atla trying to make a being that could save them
Nothing much exists of Karn anymore to tell what they were tasked with
And the Weavers of Absolom toying with the void, it seems

[limpid summit]

I can explain

[midnight reef]

Murglin was unsucessful, Atla was unsucessful, so they went with Cindrels plan

[kindred ingot]

Absolom was trying to find a way to kill GMS with the Void

[limpid summit]

The Cindril rune harp describes GMS’s “silken sight”
Something like that is never attributed to a fully sleeping GMS, so it would have to be in the time period before she fell asleep

Then the Atla lore tablet follows that up with the remaining Weavers “escaping her gaze”

We know they tried a ton of stuff there to get rid of her like Snare Setter and Eva

[kindred ingot]

didn't Atla become First Sinner?

[limpid summit]

But that was presumably where the Citadel was planned as well considering the Bellshrine in the back

We don’t know when Murglin Karn and Absolom were

Absolom might have been pre Citadel yeah

But the Murglin tablet could totally have been during the Weaver era because we know they were fading around that time

[finite wind]

Can someone explain this guy's dream nail dialogue?

[limpid summit]

Where is that exactly

[midnight reef]

I think most of the Weavenests are pre-citidel, least when they were made originally
Minus maybe Atla

[finite wind]

Near this guy

[midnight reef]

personally, at least

[finite wind]

Whose dialogue I also don't understand

[kindred ingot]

yo no hablo español

[limpid summit]

They were likely all pre citadel yeah you’re right

[finite wind]

I was gonna ask about him later but since we are at it

[limpid summit]

That is the vaultkeeper pontiff

Basically the old leader of the vaultkeepers

[finite wind]

Yeah ik that

[midnight reef]

They got repurposed when the Weavers learned of the truth- which would've been after the First Sinner was entombed

[finite wind]

But he's talking about chains and dammed bugs

[limpid summit]

He found out (presumably after Conductors went into Whiteward, when the Haunting started) what the Citadel’s purpose really was

[kindred ingot]

that guy is talking about how the Choir sings the lullaby that keeps GMS asleep

[limpid summit]

Damned Silk, we sang your chains

Only the conductors knew but he found out

[kindred ingot]

"we prayed a cage" 🔥

[finite wind]

Oh that's interesting

Why only they knew

[limpid summit]

What area is this in exactly

Idr

[finite wind]

And not the other bugs

[limpid summit]

Because they were the leaders

[finite wind]

Like the architects and vaultkeepers

[limpid summit]

They took the throne from the weavers greedily when they left

But they found out it was a burden

So they chose to shoulder it

[finite wind]

The other factions also were important

[limpid summit]

Still evil though

Yeah but it wasn’t a triumvirate

Conductors reigned supreme

[finite wind]

And in the elevator they all seem the same

In terms of hierarchy

[midnight reef]

They're the three pillars that keep the citidel running

Though the Conductors are described as in it as the leaders

[limpid summit]

This one I don’t know really

Could be a number of things there’s nothing entirely clear

Maybe it’s the corpse of an underworker from long ago who was drawn down

[kindred ingot]

what do they say in english?

[limpid summit]

By the weavers

[finite wind]

Where the grey pin is

[limpid summit]

"...This ceaseless sound...
...No more...
...Remember... silence...
...Remember... peace..."

[finite wind]

But how could they keep the secret from the others

Like it's a big secret

[midnight reef]

You dont tell them

[limpid summit]

They just did

[finite wind]

And they have statues on the elevator

[limpid summit]

The weavers kept the secret

[midnight reef]

The vaultkeepers had the records burried deep, so they found out

[finite wind]

Like wouldn't they want to know why is that elevator so important

That has statues of them next to it

[limpid summit]

Well no one was really meant to go to the cradle

[midnight reef]

...No more...

...Remember... silence...

...Remember... peace...```

They got stuck in the pipes of the Exhaust Organ and lost their mind

[kindred ingot]

sounds like they're happy to finally die

[finite wind]

Also, the whole point of the vaultkeepers is to keep knowledge, and knowing the vaultkeeper we meet, they would really want to know what's going on

[finite wind]

Oh that makes sense

Also, I'm really interested in the "damned bugs" phrase

[dire lynx]

yup, just like what they did to the underworkers. Hanging a supreme holy reward in front of their faces to keep them bound in servitude

[finite wind]

Like is he cursing the conductors?

Or talking about every bugged possessed by silk

And therefore damned

[limpid summit]

Yeah exactly

Like what Loam says

[limpid summit]

Probably that

But honestly either works

Whatever you like

[kindred ingot]

he's prob talking about how the bugs of the Citadel are dammed

[finite wind]

Yeah but the big factions are no underworkers and from what I get from the game, I think the vaultkeepers would make a fuss about now knowing what's going on idk

Also, how did he find out the truth

[dire lynx]

like conductor rominos poem says about gms

[finite wind]

And why did he die

[dire lynx]

They see your beauty, so frail and fine,

They see your peace, woven of faith and toil,

They forget your heart, bound in slumber and servitude,

When you wake they shall see your truth,

A beast's nature bare to all.

[finite wind]

I bet we don't know

[limpid summit]

Entirely possible he got haunted

Connects you to GMS

He would have realized

[finite wind]

Maybe he did some research

Or some talking

[foggy stratus]

Wait why are they called the Choral Chambers?

[finite wind]

So all the dead bugs were killed by GMS when she took the silk bound to them since birth?

[limpid summit]

The choir is the citadels army

[midnight reef]

Sounds better than the Choir's Chambers

[kindred ingot]

it's funny how on a second playthrough the game's lore looks so clear

[finite wind]

That would make sense

[kindred ingot]

like yeah, of course they're talking about GMS

how did I not notice it?

[dire lynx]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choir

[kindred ingot]

cuz they're Chambers of the Choir

[lusty ether]

what do i do after ||lost lays||

[foggy stratus]

#sk-help

[lusty ether]

right

[kindred ingot]

The Haunting is so weird to me

Like, I get haunting the bugs of the Choir and all

But what did Aknid Number 3 from Mosshome even do to deserve that?

[ionic stump]

There is silk everywhere

It’s like an analog horror bit

[trail canopy]

Aknid Number 3 wasn't haunted I believe, it was just naturally aggressive. I'd assume any human equivalents were affected and animals were not.

[ionic stump]

Atleast that’s how a pilgrim wrote it

[trail canopy]

If you don't see them get silked they probably ain't silked

[kindred ingot]

But the Needolin still shows threads coming from them

[ionic stump]

It seeped everywhere. In the air. The water. Deep in their shells.

[trail canopy]

Impact lines

[kindred ingot]

No, it's actually Silken Threads poiting towards Grand Mother Silk

It even has the little sound

This doesn't look like an impact line to me

[kindred ingot]

I mean, yes

But she could've just... not, haunted that guy

[near jasper]

Same goes for the radience

Technically sherma would is safe against the bosses guarding the citadel in both routes

[marble oasis]

Why are they called the Choral Chambers if there’s no coral in there #makesyouthink

[near jasper]

The last judge door seems to only fail in a single way as being a valid exit route from the blasted steps/citadel and its being side hinged

https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.36

[near jasper]

This is confirmed because of sherma entering through that door even if it isnt opened by hornet, which means the last judge has manual control of the door which overrides the bell mechanism

And due to the last judge room being a penal facility the door is allowed to closed to prevent the pilgrims who broke citadel law from getting in

And the last judge fits the description of "supervisory personnel continuously on duty"

It is also allowed for there to be only one exit route as the personnel count (judges) is low

[edgy nebula]

when i first played silksong i genuinely thought it was supposed to reference coral

i thought choral was the silksong name for coral

[near jasper]

[near jasper]

Wait can I see the door opened from the last judge side to check something

[marble oasis]

Are you serious

[edgy nebula]

yes i had no clue choral was a word

im not very bright

[marble oasis]

At what point did you give up on finding coral in there

[sinful nimbus]

Well when you enter choral chambers there's a fountain

Khann's tower was actually called Choral Tower in one of the map sketches so it was on the table

[signal field]

internal names shouldn’t be taken as complete canon but those are literally called puppet strings

[edgy nebula]

idk lowkey

[silent hill]

Little known fact: ||at the end of the true ending that's not the knight that's the hollow knight||

[blissful harbor]

?

wdym

[muted lantern]

it isnt true

[lost bone]

Why wouldn't it be the knight?

[muted lantern]

The shades horns look different than how ghost normally looks and people forget that their horns change to look like that in the dream no more ending.

[craggy smelt]

Hollow Knight's not even a shade, they're still alive

(I bet)

(Embrace the Void)

[muted lantern]

depends on canon ending ig

[robust wagon]

Nah bro it's what TK looks like at the end of the Dream No More ending in hollow knight

[dire lynx]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-gif-23741519

its the knight, as you can see thk has a very distinctive shade

and as yak said, its very suspiciously missing from sotv

[edgy nebula]

thk is prolly just in the way back cause theyre shy

[muted lantern]

Thk is playing stardew valley in dirtmouth while hornet is facing the horrors

[edgy nebula]

weird how thk has that growing crack in their shell ive never rlly noticed

or their shade i mean

[muted lantern]

Radi probably fucked them up so much it scarred even their shade.

[craggy smelt]

it is interesting
they have both their arms, even though one was lost to the Infection
but their cracked shell is reflected on the Shade

[muted lantern]

Tbf tc forgor about the missing arm on gms too (put on the wrong side)

[craggy smelt]

maybe more reflective of psychological issues

[craggy smelt]

well, she had eight of them, so actually...

[muted lantern]

Yeah but she didn't replace it with one of her other arms she just flipped it to the other side of her body

[craggy smelt]

oh nooo...

TC should've taken more time with silksong, it's ruined now

[muted lantern]

jokes aside they clearly just originally had gms on the left side of the ll arena and then mirrored her sprite lmao. its just a funny thing once you notice it.

[limpid summit]

I rly saw dudes on tiktok saying this in complete earnest

[shell magnet]

It's the pale king bro wdym

[edgy nebula]

tk is karl marx how do we not know this

[silent hill]

Guys don't listen to me I'm stupid

[shell magnet]

No but it's not tk

If tk is karl marx does that mean hornet is lenin

[muted lantern]

Okay guys question, what do you think pilgrims would call someone they know isnt a pilgrim? Pilgrims call hornet sister but its made pretty clear most assume shes also a pilgrim just by their dialogue and also sherma outright saying it. Would they just use sir/madam like hornet does?

[edgy nebula]

probably

pilgrims come in many shapes and sizes so it's possible they just assume

they could also just be calling her sister like how christians are all brothers/sisters of the lord

[green nova]

I think Silkeaters are ancestors of Muckroaches.

1. Muckmaggots and Silkeaters look very similar, and are infants of their species.

2. Both subsist off of silk.

3. Silk from the Whiteward falls down through the Underworks, Bilelands and into Greymoor, and the Muckmaggots are found in large swarms through said Bilelands where food is abundant.

4. With such an abundance of food, Silkeaters would quickly become invasive.

5. Styx somehow has a constant supply of Silkeaters, and he lives just above Greymoor in Sinner's Road.

[limpid summit]

Hmm

You know what

That’s not bad

[shell magnet]

That would imply that there are mature silkeaters of which we see none

[muted lantern]

Also do pilgrims refer to their elders differently than just calling them brother/sister?

I guess we don't really have examples of them talking amongst themselves

[green nova]

While we see none, we do see cocoons silkeaters are either born in/try to metamorphose in. Both of which imply there is adults of the species.

[craggy smelt]

I don't know, this is kind of 'anything black is Void' tier reasoning
a lot of bugs are going to look similar in their grub-like form (Squirrm look pretty maggoty also)
and given the abundance of silk in Pharloom, it wouldn't be unexpected for multiple lifeforms to develop a taste for it

you know what silkeaters do resemble

pretty flukey

[muted lantern]

Evil fluke that i hate

[edgy nebula]

flukenest changes vengeful spirit (which is soul) into a fluke.. silkeaters eat silk which is soul..

i think silkeaters are a biological offshoot or cousin to flukes

silkeaters also have a queen, just like flukemarm

what if flukes have secret soul-devouring abilities that we never see ingame

[lone folio]

Maybe they are like specifically bred flukes that were bred to catch alot of falling silk

[silent hill]

I think we always saw these abilities, seeing as they have unique regenerative abilities in hallownest
I think the white color and lack of movement ability was just from consuming that in the form of silk, which must have side effects of some kind. It makes sense that they wouldn't be referred to as the same thing in both kingdoms, since they're far apart and don't have much contact (for example, plasmium/lifeblood).

And since most bugs can't focus the soul from silk it probably didn't work very well

[finite wind]

Good theory

[finite wind]

Good observation

[green nova]

ty

[fading shard]

I don't get why people keep tying to connect two completely different species to one another

especially when they look so different ;-;

[finite wind]

Because they don't look and behave so different...

That's the point

Like, he explained it pretty clearly

[near jasper]

That implies that there's a muckmaggot Queen somewhere

[green nova]

well there is. you literally deliver a queen's egg to styx. dont know where he keeps the queen but theres one somewhere

[near jasper]

Muckmaggot Queen not silkeater Queen

The muckmaggot Queen has breed at least 15000 muckmaggots

Muckmaggot Queen is the entire wall between pharloom bay and bilewater

[inland hornet]

The first sinner boss fight is harder than gms in every way why did the weavers devise this elaborate citadel plan when they couldve easily just killed her

[foggy stratus]

She scary:(

Also GMS is a Higher Being and so she might have some weird hidden powers and shit.

(Also boss difficulty is subjective to an extent and isn’t really canon to compare one boss to another)

[inland hornet]

I thought about that too but wouldnt she use that on hornet then?

[heavy gyro]

Gms is nerfed from being sleepy

[foggy stratus]

Either it wouldn’t work on Hornet because she’s like half Higher Being, Hornet’s just built different, GMS eppy.

[inland hornet]

Just kinda devalued higher beings to me that gms is such a bum

[sinful nimbus]

[inland hornet]

Feels like they deliberately nerfed her to make the infected ending more feasible

[foggy stratus]

Or GMS just ain’t shit compared to the things in Hallownest. Fraud of a God.

[sinful nimbus]

She's pretty weak I agree but the weavers are still weaker and Hornet is stronger than both of them

Fight difficulty isn't really a lore thing tbh

[sinful nimbus]

Hallownest. This kingdom is blessed with true Gods. True! All around, the corpses of pretender Gods. But! Not in Hallownest... 🗣️

[foggy stratus]

GMS is a Tiso victim.

[whole holly]

i mean from objective standpoint she has manipulated soul/silk as biggest scale and with most sheer power, in the entire known HK universe, it is just that Radiance had better setup since she is strongest known Dream manipulator

[foggy stratus]

Strongest soul manipulator known doesn’t matter when she’s weak as fuck in every other regard. More or less.

[whole holly]

it does to me, and i am not talking about "other regard" in this conversation

[graceful grail]

Were the flukes started because of all the dung in the sewers??

Also, pharloom seems to not have that problem so maybe DDefender was the cause.

[whole holly]

also explain how

[near jasper]

Silk heals wounds

Gms has nearly to or infinite silk

In any long battle you're just screwed because she heals

[foggy stratus]

She gets her ass kicked by Hornet when she has a fucking parasite chilling in her.

The only thing she has going for her is her silk.

[whole holly]

that's subjective and perception dependent though, battle is irrelevant to lore, and parasite is strong

[near jasper]

The parasite isnt that strong

[foggy stratus]

Said parasite is actively weakening Hornet and she still beats GMS.

[whole holly]

Parasite could have infected Radiance too, if knight(i know he can't be infected by parasite) or other potential brought parasite to radiance

[whole holly]

like i said, battle is irrelevant to lore and that is more of chance thing anyways, there is chance parasite infested host can beat radiance, with same logic

[foggy stratus]

Radiance lacks a physical form so it isn’t known if she’d be able to get infected.

[near jasper]

The parasite kills gms because of binding so radience wouldnt be infected

[foggy stratus]

A highly weakened Hornet can still beat GMS. It’s not the battle, it’s the outcome.

[whole holly]

in dream realm Knight's physical nail can hit Radiance, i assume in Dream Realm parasite can also latch onto radiance

[whole holly]

parasite doesn't bind, lol

[foggy stratus]

And then fall off after Radiance just teleports away.

[whole holly]

irrelevant to lore

[limpid summit]

Greyroot could never trap Radiance

Sorry nika

[near jasper]

Radiance can just teleport away

[whole holly]

Infestation is instantaneous, Void Tendrils aren't as instant

[limpid summit]

It’s surprising that she even manages to curse Hornet but Hornet’s guard is presumably down

[whole holly]

infestation is instantaneous and roots grow and twist instantly

[whole holly]

potential host can weaken her

[near jasper]

Isnt there like a whole cutscene before gms actually dies from the parasite

[whole holly]

yeah, with parasite infesting her, it is about same as void tendrils unsuccessfully latching on Radiance, but void tendrils can't latch on and absorb host actively and twist host

okay you guys kind of derailed conversation to another thing

[limpid summit]

I don’t think the parasite would have the same agency in a dream domain it has no way of escaping from or manipulating

[near jasper]

The parasite is just a hungry 5 year old it needed a broken neck to even enter hornet

[whole holly]

wdym, Nail of Knight has exact same effect, why would Parasite be different

[whole holly]

because of strong shell, something Radiance doesn't have as she is fluffy

[whole holly]

this point is invalid because of lack of lore related reasons

[limpid summit]

Because the parasite isn’t actually that strong

At this point it’s writing fanfiction

Parasite couldn’t infect a Vessel

[near jasper]

Or part higher being

[limpid summit]

Whatever comes out of GMS and Hornet in Twisted Child who knows

[whole holly]

root infesting GMS doesn't discredit GMS, it in fact shows power of Parasite, same with Void being defeating radiance and achieving potential

[whole holly]

physical things can in fact interact with radiance in dream realm, parasite's abilities wouldn't be any different

[near jasper]

I think most things that consume a higher being would end up at the strenght we see the parasite at

[whole holly]

most things don't have that ability, only void, parasite and children of higher beings that we know of

[near jasper]

Cant the weavers also bind people

They can bind normally so not that big of a stretch

[whole holly]

aren't Weavers children of higher being GMS

[near jasper]

Eva knew how binding people worked so id assume the weavers know how it worked too

And they can bind

[near jasper]

No

Evolved pharlids

[whole holly]

how so?

[whole holly]

and? they still inherit GMS's physiology, which is GMS passing down her abilities onto pharlids

[near jasper]

?

[limpid summit]

In what situation would a parasite come near Rad

[whole holly]

Grand Mother Silk calls Weavers her children, she passes her abilities down weavers, since GMS is made of silk, her genetics is also silk, which she passed down onto Generation of Weavers

[limpid summit]

Nika the parasite isn’t all powerful

[whole holly]

hypothetical one

[limpid summit]

It gains the upper hand in an extremely specific situation in which it is granted access to two weakened powerful beings at the same time

But it is also pretty inconsistent

[near jasper]

Whut

[limpid summit]

It doesn’t come out when Yarnaby is poking it with normal needles

[whole holly]

what don't you understand?

[near jasper]

Just like witch crest frfr

[near jasper]

How did gms pass down her genetics to the weavers

Outside of evolving them to be more like her

[limpid summit]

She didn’t really pass down her “genetics”

Just her Silk

[whole holly]

my point is that if parasite doesn't need to be all-powerful to absorb GMS, it is circumstance that permits Parasite to absorb GMS, if similar circumstance was presented, they could consume radiance as well

[whole holly]

GMS is made of silk and has silk abilities, hence that's what her equivalent of genetics are, and GMS refers to Weavers as her children

Weavers are Children of Grand Mother Silk

[whole holly]

isn't her silk, her genetics, it's not like she has blood or organic system

now it is all crickets...

[limpid summit]

I mean like yeah I guess

I don’t really see the point

[whole holly]

i don't see point in asserting that Weavers aren't children of GMS, when they are still special case

[limpid summit]

I meant the parasite thing

[whole holly]

Parasite absorbing GMS, doesn't diminish her status as strongest known soul manipulator, or strong being in general

[limpid summit]

Eh

Yeah sure I guess

In the sense that WL and Unn also have great power

But aren’t fighters

Parasite absorbing her when she was about to die anyway doesn’t diminish her on that note

But she’s still weak all things considered

Ballador calls her frayed

The weavers probably had a harder time fighting her

[twin dragon]

She didnt birth them doe

do you call a hypothetical god your father?

[ashen granite]

If 1st and 2nd hornet in hk was before she got kidnapped then she fought the lil knight with the old needle no?

[whole holly]

i never specified children from birth...

[twin dragon]

We dont know much about their relationship

[whole holly]

okay so? GMS called them daughters and i consider that as GMS's daughters

[twin dragon]

So did god call humans their children

[whole holly]

GMS passed her "genetics" to weavers

[twin dragon]

I suck at spelling holy

[twin dragon]

That doesn't make something immediately their kid

[whole holly]

okay, either way it is fair to consider Weavers daughters of GMS, considering both of facts i provided

[limpid summit]

The game does treat GMS as the Weavers’ mother

[twin dragon]

????

"creations" sure

The adoptive argument can be made

[whole holly]

how does that discredit them being parent, especially if god played part in their creation, and in world of hollow knight that analogy doesn't work because gods literally call their children children

[whole holly]

it doesn't matter, weavers are children of GMS, whether or not they are genetic doesn't matter

[limpid summit]

It’s never really considered a biological thing more of a found family aspect as nika says

But the game doesn’t make a distinction

She’s their mom they are her daughters

But she lied and said they were her biological daughters

[twin dragon]

The game makes it more apparent that their relationship was more creation-god based

yk

the worship shit and stuff

[limpid summit]

Well yeah

The point is that she wasn’t a good mother

They didn’t have mother daughter relationships

[whole holly]

in HK children worship parents who are gods, there are many cases

[limpid summit]

Their relationship was them singing for her and sustaining her

[twin dragon]

When where

[whole holly]

Weavers and Mothkin, also Mosskin as well

[twin dragon]

Yeah their respective gods aren't their "parents"

I mean if your definition of a parent is broader than mine and includes something that was created by the "parent" sure

[limpid summit]

Is Unn referred to as mother

[whole holly]

they are in literal sense, mosskin call unn green mother

[twin dragon]

In a distant, divinity-referring way

[limpid summit]

I think Rad and Unn are more creator goddesses yeah

But GMS is the Weavers’ mother

No doubt about it

Game says as much

[twin dragon]

She's like

the thing inbetween

i'd say

[limpid summit]

I mean if we really want to get drenched in analogy she adopted them

[unique tangle]

GMS being the mother of the weavers is crucial to the themes and story of SS so I’d say she is intended to be seen as such by TC

[whole holly]

GMS was abusive mother sure, but she considered herself mother

[twin dragon]

Well yeah but not like literally

[unique tangle]

No I do mean like literally

Just like how Hornet has three literal mothers even tho two of them aren’t bound to her by blood, SS explores the literal themes of motherhood and mother daughter bonds

GMS and the weavers is one extension of that theme

If you think creator-creation relations can’t also be familial relations then you would say that Lace isn’t the “literal” daughter of GMS, only another one of her godly creations, and then the whole of the rest of SS’s narrative falls apart

[amber root]

was that the height of hornet's fall?

[edgy nebula]

yes

[edgy nebula]

love this take

[whole holly]

me too

[grizzled zinc]

This is probably a question without a definitive answer, but what was GMS's end goal? Like if she beat Hornet after waking up, what was she planning to do next?

[unique tangle]

There’s a cut ending called Strung to Serve

Which shows what happens if GMS wins

It’s the best we can go off of for what GMS was even planning to do with Hornet

[grizzled zinc]

Oh wow there's actually animation for it too

[grizzled zinc]

It's only 30 secs, but actually does give me a lot of insight. Thanks for bringing that up, I either genuinely didn't know about the cut ending or I just forgot lol

[unique tangle]

This is probably slightly more comprehensive
https://youtu.be/sTGqL5IehmY?si=CIpSk8Po3e5rLbI8

Since there’s a bit more than just the cut cinematic and this shows how it would’ve actually played out ingame

[grizzled zinc]

Cool!

It does make me wonder what would've happened to Lace afterwards, assuming she's alive (I don't see why not given act 3). I know GMS loved her, but could they have even repaired their broken relationship

[edgy nebula]

connect pilgrims to the silk hivemind and probably make more perfect daughters to serve her after she binded hornet

[kindred ingot]

Bell Beast proves that the Haunting is a completely reversible action, unlike the Infections

[graceful grove]

How?

[near jasper]

Not yk

Bellhart?

[kindred ingot]

I meant the "bug becomes aggressive due to Silk" kind of Haunting

the Pilgrims in Bellhart weren't Haunted in the regular way

[near jasper]

Also im not sure bell beast was haunted

[kindred ingot]

Bell Beast is Haunted when you fight it, and then releases the Silk Heart upon defeat, becoming un-Haunted

[kindred ingot]

it looked Haunted
it explodes onto Silk particles when defeated, and gives a Silk Heart

[near jasper]

Idk

[graceful grove]

Ok so hornet is slowly succumbing to the haunting

[near jasper]

The bell beast is still fully conscious on the silk strings

None of them actually go inside her body

Also gms is active on that area when the silk heart drops

[kindred ingot]

?

[near jasper]

She is actively replacing the silk near bell beast

[kindred ingot]

we kinda have no way of knowing that

[near jasper]

She could give the silk heart

[kindred ingot]

also, it's weird that Bell Beast would attack us then become the friendliest bug ever upon being beaten up

[near jasper]

I mean

[kindred ingot]

unless it was Haunted

[near jasper]

We did shoot a spear at its face

[kindred ingot]

it also became completely friendly after we beat it up to almost death

[near jasper]

Not almost death really

Her shell is extremly tough

[kindred ingot]

we beat it up to a point where it felt pain

[near jasper]

Like after the fight its just considered petting

[kindred ingot]

no one screams that loud after being pet

[near jasper]

What if we're just petting it And then it start liking us

[kindred ingot]

then why does it have two phases (which implies it felt enough pain to try harder to kill us)?

[near jasper]

She doesnt have issues traveling through hundreds of massive silver bells

[near jasper]

She doesnt actually change any attacks in the second phase

[kindred ingot]

it does the mid-phase Bell stuff

[near jasper]

Theres just Bells falling

[near jasper]

On a bell arena

With a massive beast burrowing into tens of times

[kindred ingot]

okay, fair

but it still doesn't explain why it creates Silk particles and drops a Silk Heart upon defeat

[near jasper]

Gms is actively attempting to send silk to the area She's near

The arena walls are bells held up to block the exit with silk

[kindred ingot]

...

fair

[near jasper]

Also about the petting thing

https://twitter.com/griffinmatta/status/1965891785890373913

Matthew Griffin (@griffinmatta)

@Gh0st1Knight @M_i_t_t_s Attack to pet =]

X · Sep 10, 2025, 9:35 PM

[marble oasis]

The battle is just a game for it

[random aspen]

bell beast couldve just killed us on the spot instantly if she wanted to

[marble oasis]

So much for that demigod status

Glorious Pale Wyrm, King of Eternal Hallownest when he sees a large bell headed directly for his cranium:

[near jasper]

Is every living weaver's(in silksong) original mask being broken meant to symbolize that gms' desires of worship no longer plague them

Like how it is with phantom

[marble oasis]

But Widow does still worship GMS

[near jasper]

Thats why her mask is intact but made of cloth

She worships but gms doesnt care

[fleet warren]

Anyone have a link to a YouTube video where I can see the whole hollow knight lore and silksong lore

[near jasper]

https://youtu.be/K4Zoq1Yk-dM
https://youtu.be/0XDiWYFGGqY

[random aspen]

i think the silksong video has a bunch of inaccuracies

[kindred ingot]

how many mistakes do those have?

[near jasper]

Idk man

What did Phantom do to the pilgrims that reached her

[fleet warren]

Thanks man

[random aspen]

how would they do that

you need the needolin to get through the mist

thats why theres only corpses outside of the mist

[near jasper]

Maybe

But what if its like with loam as silk flies remember the citadel when they hear song

[random aspen]

no clue what that means

[marble oasis]

I think you need silk to command silkflies

Needolin is silk and Lace conducts them but she is also silk

[near jasper]

A lot of needolin things are probably just song

[marble oasis]

Maybe

But the needolin seems a particularly effective medium for it

[near jasper]

True but also sherma called the judge with just little thingies And a bit of singing so its not too far fetched a lot of song works for this stuff

[nocturne vortex]

Doesn't sherma get past judges by singing so maybe singing would interact with silkflies

Also lace singing and widow playing the weird harp had an effect on silkflies and the bellhart people

[near jasper]

Sherma gets past judges because he has no sin

The singing only alerted last judge to open the door for him

[marble oasis]

1. widow is still using silk
2. she’s like physically marionetting them, no?

[nocturne vortex]

When you needolin, silk appears and controls the enemies to sing, not sure if it's existing haunted silk or hornet silk

[marble oasis]

haunting silk

the residents of bellhart are notably not haunted, so they have to be physically ensnared by widow

[covert night]

i think he rushed it

he will probably make a better video once all the dlcs are out anyway

[amber root]

maybe is about all about silk song

[valid kelp]

bro cogwork dancers have the most tragic backstory

[glacial wave]

bilewater and sands of karak are also up there

[amber root]

what is the sands of karak backstory?