sk-lore

[low oracle]

Or she replants herself with a seed everytime her life ends.

[twin dragon]

The old hearts are very cool!

if only we knew shit!

[whole holly]

nothing existed before her, she made environment and and maintains it

[twin dragon]

She could've kept being herself

[prime mantle]

then she wouldn't be called the first seed, since that implies singularity

[twin dragon]

but eternally replanting

[whole holly]

yeah, isma is source of acid blight, which might be different that first seed

[whole holly]

but is that really mortal power?

[twin dragon]

She had to also appear from somewhere

[low oracle]

I thought the acid was just present there because it is right next to Kingdoms edge...
Damn.

[twin dragon]

I mean she's based off of growth and regrowth

i wouldn't be surprised if a strong mortal could do that

[prime mantle]

everyone is born at some point

[twin dragon]

it's not that bizzarre

it's not like she DREAMT and it popped into reality

[low oracle]

Chicken or Egg ass question.

[olive stag]

something very interesting to speculate about is how apparently the "natural state" of things in the HK universe is a barren wasteland. if we really think about it, everything in the surface (as far as we know) is a complete desert and the places not inhabited/claimed by some kind of powerful force end up in a similar state (aka Verdania, Blasted Steppes, maybe even Crossroads and Dirtmouth?)

[pale narwhal]

all plants spore. but the fact that she has the Pollen Heart indicates sexual reproduction with a second compatible plant and not asexual sporing like a fern

[whole holly]

they stuck her in that paradox specifically

[prime mantle]

no im sure she can reincarnate or whatever but why would she be called a successor if she's just phoenixing out. it's silly she's still the same person

[whole holly]

yeah, irl biology doesn't really apply to HK

[prime mantle]

some plants can pollinate themselves

[olive stag]

while every place with an ecosystem has some kind of "greater force" behind it, like the mushrooms in fungal waste, unn in greenpath, nyleth in shellwood, etc

[twin dragon]

She could be of the same organism but a different mind

yk

[low oracle]

Well Seth sure as fuck ain't gonna be the one.

[pale narwhal]

i mean
aside from interspecies breeding and the presence of magic
i don't see any major violations of bug and plant biology

[twin dragon]

She hard resets herself once forest ecostystem number X ends

[prime mantle]

then nyleth wouln't be the first seed

unless this is a zelda ass situation

is seth link

[twin dragon]

Nyleth is the first seed of shellwood

not of whatever came before

[low oracle]

Hive doesn't have a HB, no? Vespa seems a mortal by all standards.

[prime mantle]

nyleth is also who we fight, who should be the latest successor

[twin dragon]

Yes, shellwood's the last of those forests

but we dont know part 5

[low oracle]

So maybe she just rebirths herself every lifetime.

[prime mantle]

so if they have differing minds than they're not all the same people/seed. and if they have the same mind they aren't successors

[twin dragon]

we better get elegy of the deep+

in the future

or else im sliming tc

they could improve dialogue with dlcs though

[low oracle]

Lmao, just more lore that nobody understands.

[twin dragon]

like they did w grimm troupe and lifeblood

[twin dragon]

The lore's there

its just a lil bit incomplete

[olive stag]

not talking about higher beings necessarily, but just some kind of "really powerful ruler", like nyleth in shellwood

[twin dragon]

strong mortal

[low oracle]

"a bit"
We can't even know wether or not the Shamans know what tf they are yapping.

[twin dragon]

They seem to

im surprised that shamans are reliable narrators but here we are

[wet walrus]

I guess we gotta wait for dlcs

[twin dragon]

also give verdania permanent rewards

[olive stag]

or even karmelita in far fields/hunter's marsh

[twin dragon]

druid's eye upgrade 3 RAAAH

[low oracle]

Far Fields and Karmelita aren't very related though. Like, Shellwood, Coral Gorge, Hive, they all are clearly related to their rulers.

[prime mantle]

druids eyes are already cracked

[twin dragon]

No far fields IS related to karmelita

it's gonna crumble now because hornet kills karmelita

[low oracle]

Yes, but how? They say it is, and then just not elaborate shit.

[prime mantle]

i struggled for an hour against karmelita, equipped that, beat her first try

[twin dragon]

Skarr birthland or wtv

fuck i know

[olive stag]

she's found in far fields and the vegetation is the same, so i'd say the whole ecosystem is "held up" by her

[twin dragon]

I know right?

A few lines of dialogue would help

[low oracle]

Yet the question remains, how? Does she garden it or what.

[twin dragon]

I thought we could improve from hollow knight's bottomless pit of questions

[olive stag]

which is an interesting thing to think about, because there never is a thriving ecosystem without some kind of "ruler" or greater force at play (i.e. higher being/powerful mortal)

[prime mantle]

well it has bones and things they hunt and they sit around there

[twin dragon]

but we opened THE gate of hell of questions unanswered

[surreal heron]

Know what?
Karemlita IS the Far Fields

[whole holly]

just saying that Team Cherry doesn't have to follow it, just basics and inspirations

[twin dragon]

graymoor before citadel was pretty lush soo

and theres no strong mortal there

[edgy nebula]

the dead bugs from the skarr probably fertilize the grass, but the bugs in far fields have little predators so the ecosystem is unbalanced

[low oracle]

But that doesn't make Karmelita irreplacable. Nyleth is unique to Shellwood, Karmelita....

[twin dragon]

The skarrs act as the predators

[olive stag]

i'd say it was an extension of verdania, much like far fields is an extension of hunter's marsh

[prime mantle]

moss grotto has no heart or deity

[edgy nebula]

yeah thats what i meant

[twin dragon]

it was bamboo they weren't very similar

[edgy nebula]

the humble moss druid

[twin dragon]

verdania's a lush cave

[prime mantle]

i mean at least karmelita is in far fields

[twin dragon]

or maybe they were fuck i know

[whole holly]

true

[twin dragon]

MOSS FATHER

[prime mantle]

she's a squatter the moss doesnt need her

[low oracle]

Natural selection should balance itself though. If the prey grows to large, they die from a lack of food. I the Predators grow to large, they die from a lack of food.

[whole holly]

lands are trying to create heart themselves, Moss Druid thinks that and is trying to accelerate that process

[twin dragon]

moss grotto dlc next

[olive stag]

yeah, that's a very curious thing because as far as i know this is the only exception

[twin dragon]

what if lifeblood biome has a heart of the seas

this is a very real possibility btw

this means we get old heart lore in sea of sorrow YIPPIE

[prime mantle]

i dont think moss grotto would die if moss druid somehow became a heart and then died

[whole holly]

ehh, it can be small addition in any DLC, her story is kinda cut

[edgy nebula]

would be tuff

make it a barnacle boss

[twin dragon]

make it a big whale

[low oracle]

Nyleth isn't on the map, but that's just programming. And let's not even bother with what the fuck Green Prince is doing. He literally dies AND THE FUCKING KINGDOM HEALS. THAT IS THE FUCKING OPPOSITE OF WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN, WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS DUMBASS LOGIC???

[twin dragon]

or marine reptile

so its tuff

or a squid the good old one

[prime mantle]

bum prince sucked so bad everyone was waiting on him

[whole holly]

that's just because it doesn't have heart yet and is trying to create one, who says Moss Druid is going to be New Heart, we don't know these things

[low oracle]

Make it a Ghost Leviathan.

[twin dragon]

Gp's sorrow is what keeps verdania from regrowing

[prime mantle]

replace her with anyone

[twin dragon]

The ruler is basically not there

[whole holly]

life finds a way ass story

[edgy nebula]

tc realized green prince had no reason to die so they band aid fixed it by making killing him good

[low oracle]

Then does that mean Karmelita is happy???

[wet walrus]

Why is the title of the game is Hollow Knight Silksong? Is there a lore explanation for it or just for marketing?

[twin dragon]

No but she's still trying her best, plus far fields is starting to collapse with the skarrs being haunted

[twin dragon]

because its hollow knight??

[edgy nebula]

it's the sequel of hollow knight

[whole holly]

so, point stays same, there are natural resources for plantlife to thrive, new heart may "evolve" there, maybe hop out of cauldron

[edgy nebula]

like five nights at freddys 2

[prime mantle]

moss grotto seems to be alive for regular reasons, not magic heart schtuff. maybe verdania is kind of the same since it's attempting to come back. i guess a heart could be a guarantee of life/ecosystem preservation), but since far fields suck ass karmelita dying just wipes it out since the grass that grows there would die to heat

[twin dragon]

anwyays lace is the hollow knight of silksong

so the title is accurate

[edgy nebula]

where is laces song

shes the silk but wheres the song

[twin dragon]

hornet is the song

[wet walrus]

The hollow knight of silksong is gms if we consider both as final bosses

[edgy nebula]

she plays music, she doesnt sing...

[twin dragon]

Gameplay wise i guess

[edgy nebula]

call the game silkneedolin

[olive stag]

i don't think it's necessarily the need of a heart, but rather some great power to keep things together. i believe this is the case because, if you look at all the areas in HK and SK with some kind of ecosystem, all of them have some kind of "leader" or "great power" keeping things together

[whole holly]

there are natural resources for plant-life to thrive, new heart may "evolve" there, but Verdania is already dead and new life is springing, it seems that all the hearts are trying to tell us full story

[twin dragon]

maybe the heart being gone makes a hard reset to the ecosystem?

[prime mantle]

so when gp dies it's like the chestnut a squirrel stowed away growing to a sapling

[olive stag]

except of course moss grotto

[twin dragon]

since the old hearts are the perpetuation of the ecosystem

[gentle aspen]

moss grotto has a heart that the moss druid is attempting to create/find

[inland jewel]

i have a big theory but its right like 80%

[low oracle]

Team Cherry has the biggest ragebait lore. If we apply their logic, making Karmelita depressed and killing her would be good. LIKE HOW? Far Fields isn't even related to her, she literally rules over Hunters March and Far Fields, yet shares no features with them. And don't even get me started on the fact that her dress is made of flesh, covering more flesh, with sharp blades in between.

[twin dragon]

No that's not my point

Verdania's already dead with its rulers

[prime mantle]

she is trying to find one, but i dont think we know there is one

[twin dragon]

GP refuses to move on and is still sitting in its destruction

[gentle aspen]

Ahhh! Ahhh-ohhhh! The smell again! Stronger, stronger now! But still young yet! Listen to your sisters, little one, and grow! Oh, grow!

[twin dragon]

Instead of replanting he's throwing salt to the ground

[whole holly]

who knows maybe it was in the cauldron all along

[twin dragon]

And there were apparently skarr cities before

but its cut content

OF COURSE ITS CUT CONTENT

AHH

[prime mantle]

🤔 where the hell is this heart damn

[whole holly]

across events of the game, Moss Druids confirm it

[gentle aspen]

Ohh, the world trembles! But we can hear it... beating steady... beating free...

[edgy nebula]

in her chest?

[twin dragon]

so the druid is cooking up a moss heart

[olive stag]

anybody seen talking about cut contet gets sent to the guillotine

[prime mantle]

yeah but it doesnt seem like she thinks she owns it?

[gentle aspen]

we don’t know the exact process of the old hearts creation

[twin dragon]

you brew it in a pot

apparently

[whole holly]

in literal sense, she is such accelerationist

[gentle aspen]

well no

[inland jewel]

yah yah

[twin dragon]

its a joke

[edgy nebula]

what if moss druid is from an ancient line of druids who made the hearts

[inland jewel]

alote

[edgy nebula]

hunter druid... crust druid.... the green druid........

[gentle aspen]

the pot is used to cook up the mossberries and attune to whatever frequency allows it to be sensed

[twin dragon]

what if the moss druid is also the radiance because they fluffly or wtv

[inland jewel]

i agree

[whole holly]

it would be Wild Druid, Crust Druid, Pollen Druid and Clover Druid

[inland jewel]

omg yahh i didnt think of that

[olive stag]

it could also be the case that she is, in some way, attempting to siphon the power of the moss grotto

[twin dragon]

ok so we just saying shit now?

[prime mantle]

if hearts do succeed, mosshome did use to be a large enough settlement. perhaps the moss heart is currently respawning?

[twin dragon]

Maybe

Or maybe its new

BRAND NEW OLD HEART FOR 4.99

[whole holly]

i wonder why Void Druid cooked up Void Heart and put it into Abyss Birthplace Memory?

[nimble zinc]

Is grandmother silk actually my grandmother or not

[prime mantle]

i didnt think there was a moss heart this brings things to think about

[edgy nebula]

she is grand mother silk not grandmother silk

[prime mantle]

are you hornet

[twin dragon]

Hollow knight fans when they learn how to read

[nimble zinc]

Well

[edgy nebula]

hollow knight fans' first triumph against the reading comprehension devil

[nimble zinc]

I'm scared of hornets

[twin dragon]

the big and evil spacebar between GRAND and MOTHER in question

[whole holly]

Lifeblood Druid creating Lifeblood Heart and giving it to salubra

[twin dragon]

salubra explodes

[whole holly]

Nightmare Druid cooked up Higher Being, called Nightmare Heart

[olive stag]

it's all druids

[twin dragon]

John silksong druid cooked up silksong in TC offices

[olive stag]

silksong heart

[whole holly]

why did Silk Druid make silk hearts? is she stupid?

[prime mantle]

i didn't word this clearly earlier but i theorize far fields survive thanks to karmelita despite the heat, so when she dies that's why they end, but despite ending verdania has the capacity to support life, so when green prince dies his death breaths life back to the land

she wanted a bell beast

[whole holly]

it somewhat represents how Life and Hearts are created and die

[twin dragon]

The ecosystem does a clean install

whenever the heart is cooked

that's what gp implies anyways

[whole holly]

1. birth and rebirth of heart (thriving life) 2.death of heart (death of surrounding life, if already dead new life finds the opportunity)

[prime mantle]

also hornet does tell gilly that something new may sprout from far fields after it clears, thanks to bugs like her, so it could be that far fields need to die first before flourishing again, and karmelita's death is the catalyst

[twin dragon]

Ye see?

clean install

hard reset

Since the haunting kinda halted any chances of the heart having a successor

life finds its way

[prime mantle]

so the logic would be

far fields alive
karmelita dies
far fields die
x time
far fields live

verdania dead
gp dies
verdania lives
x time
verdania dies

repeat

[twin dragon]

It would be more like

New heart forms

new heart dead

dead

it lives again

new heart forms

But in GP's case verdania died with gay prince 2

Since the heart is shared p sure

[whole holly]

Hornet is telling gilly to do for environment what moss druid is doing for moss lands

[twin dragon]

Go n cook!

[whole holly]

thank you, Nubbie

[prime mantle]

shrubsinger gilly

[twin dragon]

Or because Gay prince 1 refused to keep perpetuating

because depression blah blah

[kindred ingot]

what's the topic now?

[twin dragon]

old hearts

we LOVE extremely cool but incomplete lore

[edgy nebula]

what type of music do we think would best represent each successors personality

or alternatively what music would they like the most

[prime mantle]

goat prince dying prolly wouldn't have killed verdania if bum prince hadn't left but it's also right below bilewater and later got haunted so

[olive stag]

next topic on the agenda is mask maker

[twin dragon]

The haunting kinda interfered with it

Plus gp 1 is a bum so yeah

[twin dragon]

Mask makers on their way to spit some bullshit that define the mathematical constant of how everything works

[whole holly]

Khann is classical, Karmelita is country, Verdania is rhythm and blues, Nyleth is lo-fi, Moss Druid is pop, because she is hopeful and joyful that heart will pop out

[twin dragon]

karmelita is opera what

[whole holly]

opera, i missed it... omg

[prime mantle]

khann is rock...

[twin dragon]

Moss druid would LOVE metal

she's a metalhead

i see it

either that or she sings to plants

[whole holly]

Choral Tower suggests classical, it was original name

[twin dragon]

Khann loves patriotic hymns

that's a fact

[whole holly]

Nyleth can be folk music too, she is voice-focused, she used to be

[twin dragon]

verified by true karak patriots

[prime mantle]

khann has watcher make little dark age edits of him with river videos

[whole holly]

i love how that comments very well on real world

[whole holly]

ehh, she is too joyful

[prime mantle]

classic is gms tho its the entire game basically

[edgy nebula]

i feel like khann's the type of guy to listen to his nation's traditional music

[kindred ingot]

Karak music would go hard

[prime mantle]

khann listens to folk music (he's a nationalist), nyleth listens to folk music (she loves the tune)

[kindred ingot]

Trobbio would listen to his own OST

[whole holly]

it is Gospel music and Hymns, she has choir literally

[prime mantle]

no trobbio is the type of guy that watches his own performance and feels like killing himself and nitpicks it to death im afraid

[kindred ingot]

"I really like folk!"
"Me too."
"..."
"...What?"

[prime mantle]

are those different im music illiterate nglllllll

[whole holly]

yeah, it was before classical bro

[prime mantle]

isnt classic just like, old

[kindred ingot]

nah, he'd watch other people's fights and go like "hm... needs more special effects" while they're like "WHAT DO YOU MEAN? IM FIGHTING TO THE DEATH HERE"

[prime mantle]

its definitely what you said if not

which dramatic fights would trobbio like

he'd hate lace (petty)
he'd hate karmelita (jealous)
he'd hate cogwork dancers (lonely)
he'd like clover dancers (he can think he's better)

he'd hate true clover dancers but goat prince is dead so that's ok

[whole holly]

plus Classical is Choral music, more of khann's thing

[kindred ingot]

he'd like Khann's fight cuz of the special effects (corals)

[prime mantle]

he'd like khann's fight because he's gay

and also that

[kindred ingot]

wait why are we talking about this?

this is the lore channel

[prime mantle]

trobbio lore is important

give him enough time and he might be the heart of the citadel itself

who knows, all moss druid does is stir and sing, close enough

[whole holly]

i thought about that too, Moss Druid may concoct a heart that Trobbio will equip

[graceful grail]

Why do people think eveyone wants to create old hearts, that makes no sense to me.

Do you think Green Prince was trying???

[low oracle]

Cut content is also stupid. Like, is it lore? Is it not? Idk gotta log off now.

[whole holly]

wdym, i will just show you Moss Druid wiki pahe and read the dialogue, https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Moss_Druid

[graceful grail]

Ok, she is listening to the old hearts and stating that hornet and she have a heart. What am i missing???

[whole holly]

there is a heart in mosslands: "Mmm. You can hear it, yes? Listen close. Weak, but precious. A pulse, a beat! Faint... Our very own... " Trobbio part is a joke he is just a joke-ish character

[graceful grail]

She is saying hers and hornets heart… idk the point of how she wants to make a new heart

.
Mmmm! Is it time? Our lands shake their sorrow! For the new beat, yes? Demanding! For a new rhythm...
Hornet: These quakes you feel, they are not your land's sadness, they are its collapse, one bound to happen if their source cannot be quelled.
What? No, no no... the beat... It is the beat our land wishes! Calls for it! Needs one new!

Also, this is not her saying that they need a New old heart. She is saying how she can hear the void.

[twin dragon]

Its not canon so nah

[whole holly]

why would she say their hearts, dialogue is clearly about Hearts that sustain the land, that's the context

[twin dragon]

Hornet thinks the druid is talking about the void

[spark valve]

Drop them in, there they go, and now at last we can begin!
Ahhh! Ahhh-ohhhh! The smell is right! Like the others! But very young! Oh, voice of the woods! Oh, dance of the queen! Oh... oh! Beat harder, let us hear it! Oh! Ohhhhhhhh

Moss Druid is trying to make a new heart

Beat beat beat!
In coral, in shell...
And why not here?!
Beating, beating...
The world's rhythms...
In branches, in fields!

[graceful grail]

I dont think moss druid has the right idea of how to make an old heart.

Green prince does it accidentally…

[spark valve]

Doesn’t matter

Moss Druid is trying to induce something that can occur naturally that isn’t a contradiction

[whole holly]

she clearly serves as druid that accelerates natural process

[graceful grail]

What other “not bug creatures” besides slugs and snails are there?

[whole holly]

Voltvyrm, Monomon and her creatures, Nyleth and plant-life

[graceful grail]

And wisps

Are these bugs??

[foggy fractal]

yeah

[potent blaze]

Yall what is the relationship between muckmaggots in pharloom, vs maggots in hallownest

because we know that maggots were considered a lesser being in hallownest and were mainly used for food, but same can be said for muckmaggots in pharloom

[onyx fiber]

How do they get here ;-;

And grow

[foggy fractal]

A creature long familiar to me. I suspect that no matter how far I travel, if I descend deep enough they will always be there. - Hunter's Journal

[onyx fiber]

But why

[foggy fractal]

we don't know

[lunar sleet]

Maybe because it always just appears in the Abyss

[rapid bloom]

Species of the Abyss

[onyx fiber]

It’s litterly the only enemy that appears in both games (outside of dreamnail shut it)

[maiden meteor]

isn't that shrine bell

[onyx fiber]

🤔

[onyx fiber]

There’s also a big one unlike Hk

[surreal heron]

Wingmould

[onyx fiber]

EXCEPT DREAM NAIL

and Istfg if u say memory locket not dream nail

[surreal heron]

OH THAT’S WHAT THAT MEANT

[onyx fiber]

It has a reasonable excuse

[surreal heron]

I’m stupid

[onyx fiber]

It’s a memory not part of the world

But the shadow creepers just chilling and nothing else exists in both besides dreams

[meager hemlock]

what are you talking about?

[vernal hemlock]

I LOVE SILKSONG

[meager hemlock]

I too

[whole holly]

As do I

[tawdry flare]

MAN I wish it was more fun to replay

[twin dragon]

Hornet

And dreams are somewhat different

[onyx fiber]

Frick you*

[twin dragon]

soul

THE KNIGHT

[onyx fiber]

She’s in dreams

[fiery knot]

Toy chica is William afton

Wait wrong lore channel mb

[jovial forge]

is there a groal face made out spikes/lanterns/background after beating groal? idk where to ask this and it wont let me share the screenshot i took either

[fiery knot]

Send me the screenshot you're talking about

[fiery knot]

I think that's just how thay area looks, not meant to resemble groal (i saw your dm)

[fiery knot]

https://tenor.com/view/thenamescam-jaiden-animations-club-penguin-dance-club-penguin-dance-gif-20913822

[graceful grail]

They knew how to resist the void in some ways, like the everbloom, and the lighthouse.

[kindred ingot]

did I miss anything?

[vocal cipher]

k

[wanton charm]

maybe they're in both because unlike the rest of pharloom the abyss is the exact same in both pharloom and hallownest except for the vessel shells

which because of that there are chargers in pharloom bc the vessel shells don't get in the way of feeding but other than that its similar evolutionarily

[onyx fiber]

🤷‍♂️

[kindred ingot]

and those weird worm things

[onyx fiber]

The void tentacles?

That’s because they’re just void

[kindred ingot]

no, the Gloomsac

[onyx fiber]

In lifeblood area

If that they’re not in hk

[kindred ingot]

uh?

[onyx fiber]

Idk

[wanton charm]

maybe gloomsacs and their little guys arent there in hk bc they have less armor so they would get stabbed by vessel horns and shards more often?

[edgy nebula]

its possible they were buried by the vessel corpses because they couldnt cling to walls like shadow creepers

[onyx fiber]

O those

Yeah

Well I guess I contributed to lore

Yay

[kindred ingot]

or it's just that hk's abyss is way smaller

no space for Gargant Glooms

[onyx fiber]

Hm

Possible

But it’s not that small

It has the shriek to the shade cloak and the up part

Of abyss climb

Like yeah there’s a lot more space in silksong but still hk abyss isn’t small

[kindred ingot]

or maybe the vessel corpses just blocked us from the area where they are

[onyx fiber]

You know what

I wonder how much abyss was covered

By the vessels

Not the most but like

🤔

[kindred ingot]

well, Birthplace is very deep

[dire lynx]

maybe they are just native to pharloom, the shadow creeper is always noted for never eating, but that isnt mentioned for the gargant gloom, so i doubt the creepers are a regular bug

[onyx fiber]

Yeah that’s what I just thought but the tunnels

[onyx fiber]

I was thinking it could be like a vessel but small just ghost

And sense void is in both areas

And sense void not fighting radiance it could make bigger vessels

It could make vessels out of vessel corpses and transport em through the core of the planter

Planet*

[dire lynx]

what?

[pine shadow]

lol

exactly

wow just wow

important

impressive

[onyx fiber]

True

[pine shadow]

yeah

absolutely

[kindred ingot]

?

[forest lynx]

hello

[dire lynx]

hi!

[pine shadow]

this is perfect isn't it

absolutely amazing stuff

[onyx fiber]

True

[dense ridge]

Hornet

[onyx fiber]

She can be found in a memory and you know what I meant

[dense ridge]

Also Hornet's cloak

[onyx fiber]

Not a enemy and I meant enemy

[dense ridge]

And her needle

[onyx fiber]

And I’m quite sure you knew that and those can be found in memories

[dense ridge]

Grass

[onyx fiber]

I literally said enemy

[dense ridge]

There is hostile grass in Silksong

[onyx fiber]

Where

[dense ridge]

Far Fields

[onyx fiber]

And same grass in hollow knight

And you knew what I meant

[dense ridge]

The Knight

[onyx fiber]

HES NOT A FUCKING ENEMY

[dense ridge]

🥺

I'm sorry I didn't mean to ragebait you

[onyx fiber]

Fish

[marble oasis]

garpids sort of

[edgy nebula]

im curious, why do gloomsacs come wrapped in vines?

we have no concrete answer but do we have any theories

[craggy smelt]

possibilities include:
ambush predator behavior, affixing themselves to the ceiling to await prey
nesting behavior, they are affixed there by Gargant Glooms as part of their maturation (assuming Gargants are their parent creature)
freaky Void qualities, they just wait there for so long vines grow over them, since they don't actually need prey the same way shadow creepers don't seem to need food or water

[forest lynx]

i just thought they grew on plants

[forest lynx]

poor little one hasn’t reached act 5

[onyx fiber]

lmao

[lone valve]

does first sinner and sinner’s road have anything to do with each other

[edgy nebula]

no

[lone valve]

cool

[cunning carbon]

Wtf was bell beasts problem when we released them?

[graceful grail]

She has silk in her, Hornet needs to beat it out

[cunning carbon]

Ooooh. Like forcing your dog to spit out whatever is in its mouth

[carmine veldt]

This never occurred to me somehow

[jagged sun]

Is there any confirmation that the First Sinner is Atla or is it just speculation?

[pastel hedge]

From what I remember that seems to just be headcanon/speculation

[jagged sun]

Honestly some of the "which weavenest weaver is which corpse" theories make sense (like the silkspeed anklets weavenest being the one where you get sprint)

[pastel hedge]

A little unrelated sidenote: I really thought that TC was going to do the same thing with the Weavenests that they did with those tablets in HK's Soul Sanctum, when I had encountered Atla and Cindril

Except there isn't a Weavenest that starts with "B," and there is more than one that start with "A"

[drifting walrus]

Wait do they spell the alphabet

[pastel hedge]

I'm pretty sure the soul sanctum tablets followed some kind of scheme along those lines

Except one of them is sort of obscure, mossbag talked about it once I think

[drifting walrus]

Absolom is also most likely the silksoar grave

[plain gazelle]

the evidence is basically:

• The corpse with Atla's effigy is in the Slab. If Atla was imprisoned, it would make sense for her followers to be imprisoned too
• Atla is "the weaver of time" with "our history held full in mind", which fits well with a character who discovered the history of the weavers and has some ability to pull Hornet into a memory
• The other weavers named in effigies match the corpses in their respective areas' descriptions (camora is the "weaver of healing", the corpse nearby says "by grace you healed"; keelal is the "weaver of the path", the corpse nearby says to protect the pilgrims)
• Atla is the only named weaver to also have a weavenest (actually the only reason we know weavenests are named after weavers), and its the biggest weavenest, suggesting team cherry had Atla in mind as an actual character
• Weavenest Atla is the hub of anti-GMS activity, which lines up with First Sinner being so mad at her

so not confirmed but I'd say very likely

[craggy smelt]

her last thoughts were 'get me tf out of this horrible pit of darkness'

[drifting walrus]

Yeah I don’t quite understand why the weavers made a nest in the goddamn abyss

Like atla seemed sufficiently far away from gms to remain secret

[craggy smelt]

might've discovered the Void and set up a nest nearby to study it's potential for their efforts re. neutralizing Silk

[stray fog]

Maybe they wanted to use void against gms

If you discovered a strange new liquid (one like void), you'd set up a research base close to it

[craggy smelt]

snails seemed to think it was obvious that the Void was needed to bind something like Silk
I don't know how one comes across such knowledge, but maybe the Weavers were exploring the possibilities

[pastel timber]

There’s also weavenest Atla putting emphasis on rune tech which appears to be FS’ specialty, and the tablet saying “accursed web born of our naive foundation” matching FS calling pharloom “our accursed kingdom” (all the others say haunted, the word accursed is never used anywhere else) and seemingly referencing her revelation with ‘naive foundation’

[whole holly]

do we think that Broken Weavenest in Mount Fay is Weavenest Keelal - Weaver of Path? her effigy says : "Blessed Weaver, lady of grace, you who see our sin, our frail shells, our voices weak, and still offer your protection. How great your mind to care so much for ones so lowly."

[stray fog]

Weavers have gotta be on the knowledgeable side of the spectrum

[whole holly]

what can we even attribute to Camora? weaver of healing?

[stray fog]

Where is keelal's effigy found?

[whole holly]

it's somewhat weird that Weavers didn't use silk in conjunction with void, and ultimately making whole thing useless

[stray fog]

Maybe they realized that void shouldn't be messed with

[whole holly]

keelals and camora's effigies are not as suggestive with their locations, Camora: West of Mosshome, below the entrance to Wormways.

Keelal: Southern Shellwood. Accessible after completing the Rite of Rebirth Wish.

[whole holly]

yeah, it did turn out to be useless overall but Void could generally negate GMS haunting and influence

[brazen crater]

4

[stray fog]

The shamans needed a huge amount of soul for their abyss portal, so maybe the Weavers didn't have that much power for such a solution

[whole holly]

any amount of soul seems to be consumed, at least in Abyss Lighthouse, presence of void killed the bug

[whole holly]

Royal Retainer died, in Abyss Lighthouse, i am glad that Weavers realized Void brings more bad than Good anyways

guys i think we are under-discussing nature of things in materium, it tells us a lot

what is missing from materium is Coldshard, something that makes up mnemonids and memory crystals

their needolin dialogue is all about remembering

[teal sinew]

i wonder if we will ever get explanation about how the surface became the desolate land it now is

we can clearly see that it is never bright, sand storms are always blazing, and almost no lifeform is at sight. no trees no greenery no water

and i dont think the surface is just "The great unknown", because the bugs seems to be very wary and uninterested about it instead of "oooh i wonder what lies beyond there"

so i wonder if something big happened that forced all living beings to move underground

[sour lava]

what happen to the caretakers after i wake up from red memory

[craggy smelt]

would've been kinda cool if the Snare Setter had turned out to be the source of the Void spell that blew up Silk - have some Void jars and material from Weavenest Absolom in the secret Atla lab

snail shamans could've been all 'hey, don't blame us, we just juiced the thing up at bit'

but yeah, idk, maybe the Weavers did figure out enough to leave well enough alone

there are some things bug is not meant to know

[gentle aspen]

the spell to get the everbloom was a danger to themselves as well

They died

[whole holly]

i kinda want Trobbio to become new heart of Moss Druid, it makes sense for him to embody Rebirth after he witnessed death of Pharloom

[hidden crater]

fucking dead

thats it

[light mauve]

They lowk couldn’t handle the power of the ritual

[whole holly]

they are highkey too sensitive

[light mauve]

Not like the full might of 3 strongest beings of pharloom unleashed in a small room with them

[whole holly]

ehh, hearts are nothing, moss druid is concocting it like it is nothing, and hornet could handle the spell but shamans couldn't

[light mauve]

Nothing?

Also hornet is a god

Those dudes are just shamans

[whole holly]

Moss Druid concocts it like it is nothing

[light mauve]

Moss Druid did not take part in the ritual

[whole holly]

Moss Druid is doing their own ritual bro...

[whole holly]

demigod...

[light mauve]

He what

[whole holly]

i mean there is no good reason why Shamans shouldn't survive

[light mauve]

Because hearts are strong?

[whole holly]

i guess shamans aren't as powerful as we thought

[light mauve]

Shamans are weak?

[light mauve]

No shit

We didn’t even think they were powerful

[whole holly]

when why are you arguing in first place?

[light mauve]

They collected soul for centures for a single trap

[whole holly]

they cast spells, derive souls from pilgrims and so on

[whole holly]

just say you don't understand the lore

[maiden meteor]

Frankly I don’t think shamans would be able to beat even Soul Master

maybe bell hermit

Im not even sure what Shamans are cooking

like they aren’t combatants it seems

I think they’re in it for the love of the game

[vague aurora]

bbig dick

[stray fog]

Yeah they're just magic nerds

However, they have combat spells

[ionic basalt]

This is peak of hk lore

[light mauve]

Yes

Yes it is

[solid breach]

What happened to the ||fourth chorus|| and why is it so different compared to the others?

[light mauve]

Why are you using the spoiler thing

You can say any spoilers here

It’s lore bro

[solid breach]

Wait it isn't a thing here?

Oh

[light mauve]

Fourth chorus

Grand mother silk

[solid breach]

Ah well

[light mauve]

Shade

See

[solid breach]

i'm just used to the help channel lol

[light mauve]

Well

[stray fog]

I think it was sent to kill the seamstress

[frosty gate]

Church bell SFX

[stray fog]

But the seamstress defeated it

[frosty gate]

This shit was way funnier than it had to

[frosty gate]

So the theories say, I agree with it tbh

[solid breach]

But the other choruses look golden and sanctified while the fourth is just.... Black

Is it just because it got burned in lava

?

[frosty gate]

And the lighting, it looks essentially the same

[light mauve]

It is true

[stray fog]

So close to having a spider-like look

[light mauve]

We can even see her pin

[stray fog]

2 more limbs

It would be fitting

[frosty gate]

It was probably the inspiration

But it got lost with the ages

[light mauve]

No?

That would make him an arachnid

Which he certainly isn’t

Judging by a strict separation of the 3 section of his body

Head torso and body

[light mauve]

It wouldn’t but he still can’t have 8 legs since only arachnids do

But they also must have head and torso connected into one section

Just like Crustacea

[gentle aspen]

@swift needle @light mauve this is not a meme channel

[stray fog]

That's what Im saying

Ofcourse it isn't an actual spider

Its a robot

Im saying that it would be a cool detail if it had 8 limbs

[light mauve]

Why

He wouldn’t be a bug nor a spider

He would just be

[heavy gyro]

A chorus

[stray fog]

Because spider

Weaver = spider

Funny detail

[whole holly]

yeah, it is not unwarranted for Citadel to want to imitate or be inspired by weavers

[light mauve]

He would look nothing like a spider

[granite crest]

Yo whats the lore behind Voltvyrm. Its one of the bosses i understand the least about

[light mauve]

It is a simple bug driven by basic instincts

Nothing related to pale and black wyrms

[whole holly]

it is barely a bug that can be charged with electricity

[light mauve]

Actually exact polar opposite

Pale wyrm is the most complex while volt wyrm is the simplest

[light mauve]

Yes I know

Synonyms

Literally no difference

Modern terminology explains wyrm as a synonym to worm

Because english used in Silksong and hollow knight is more formal and old

[stray fog]

Its unrelated to wyrms imo

They intentionally spelled it as "vyrm"

[light mauve]

Yeah probably

Nope

It’s from fiction

New terra

Not real life

The word Vyrm with a V does not exist

Also the reason pale wyrm is called wyrm can also be because he is closer to being a snake than a worm

Considering he has a spine

Teeth

As we can see

Uh really?

I thought it said that a barely considered to be bug driven by basic instinct

Oh right

[whole holly]

what's interesting that Voltvyrm isn't only creature with Voltage, Charged Lumaflies and some bugs can use Volt too

[whole holly]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Volt_Twister

Voltvyrms Volt may be related to Voltridian https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Voltridian from the Voltnest

[light mauve]

You see, there is spine, uhh ribs?
He is not a worm so the word wyrm is used probably to show smth that is closer to a snake idk

[whole holly]

Wyrms are basically limbless insectoid dragons in word of Hollow Knight

[fresh badger]

Tbf like.

HK's world isnt invertebrates, we see countless bones

[fresh badger]

Imo voltridian is some kinda biological waste produced by the voltvyrms, hence the nest being full of it and the lack of voltridian found anywhere else in Pharloom

If it was voltvyrms choosing to nest at pre-existing voltridian deposits, you would think we would see more voltridian around like we do with Magnetite

[jolly trail]

i have question about grandmother silk like why did she survive so long in the void while radiance didn't?

[whole holly]

i mean that's interesting insight

[granite crest]

I always thought it was because of motherly love/insticts and her trying to protect lace. It could also be because of HOW she entered the void?

[sinful nimbus]

The void in HK was controlled by The Knight as opposed to in Silksong where its just raw void

[jolly trail]

no bc they both get dragged in it

[granite crest]

Huh i guess. Didnt see it that way.

[jolly trail]

i have a theory: if riadaince and grandmother silk are both higher beings then i suspect its also bc grandmother being a physical entity makes it more difficult for the void to consume her. while the radiance lives in dream realm has "no real physical body" and only being an host in a bugs mind like virus. i mean its just theory of my view 🙃

[granite crest]

Thats actully a really cool theory! I guess dream essence can be diluted by void (/j)

[jolly trail]

im just going on the fact that radaince has no real body if so then it explains also why grandmother silk dies slowly

[spring merlin]

Why can’t I post images here?

[jolly trail]

idk

[spring merlin]

So how did the choir members responsible for the captures even have enough sentience to record and write about the journeys even they were haunted? I mainly think about this with what they said about capturing Hornet; they know about Hallownest enough to specify its of The Pale King (white wyrm), but then who are the ones that know that? The choir bugs themselves (who should be haunted) or Grand Mother Silk who’s instilling those messages about the weavers?

[limpid summit]

Haunting doesn’t strip you of your sense of self entirely as much as the infection does

In some cases

It drives bugs to madness but they retain a little more of themselves than infected bugs

[spring merlin]

It is then interesting how did they even knew that it’s specifically Hallownest. Did GMS instill them with Hornets coordinates and they kinda just realize “oh it’s in that one guys kingdom”

[tacit crown]

So. how heavy are Roseries?

[stray fog]

They might have followed pk's beacon

[foggy fractal]

#server-announcements message this

[stray fog]

The Weavers mapped out the wastes near pharloom, as we see in weavenest cindril
Maybe they used that knowledge to go to the weaver descendants's kingdoms

[light mauve]

Yep

[spring merlin]

Does the beacon even still exist?

[stray fog]

It existed even after pk died, so it doesn't turn off after his death

It might fade though

We don't know

[tacit crown]

any headcannons or anything or is it too computationally heavy and I'll have to use physics?

[crystal marsh]

we don't know because the world's scale is unknown

[gilded summit]

Anyone knows why hornet saw the shade lord when she saw her lil bro

is the knight an extension of the shade lord now?

[limpid summit]

The shade lord is an extension of the knight

The actual flash might have been some sort of hallucination it was mostly meta

Void heart “unifies the void under the bearers will” basically making the fragmented void mind bend to TK as like an extra limb

Godseeker focus allows TK to control void more efficiently, drawing more void towards itself and giving it a larger form

But it’s still the same as ever

[rapid bloom]

It does.

It still stood long after his presence was erased.

And it seems that the Weavers made a device that was meant to recreate his awareness of the world?

[thorny hollow]

the knight is the shade lord and appears in a familiar form to its sister perhaps

"do not be afraid" style

[fleet sparrow]

How deep are the Deep Docks?

[twin dragon]

They become connected to a greater whole

their memories are scattered across their head because gms invades em

that's why most haunted bugs are in a dazed state

[sonic smelt]

I have no idea where to put this (i cant put it in ⁠#hk-lore because it has sk spoilers) so i am going to write my wall-of-text void essay here, which i think may explain how the pale king and the radiance work in relation to the void.

I think that the void acts purely off of base instinct while keeping some knowledge as an animal would, but in a the form of more of a hive mind while still having individual branches that allow creatures like the knight and thk to act independently. This would also explain how the knight, despite the shade lord is sk's ending, wasnt able to control the void in pharloom, because it was acting in a separate branch to hk's void.

The void would be able to communicate some information between it's branches, however. this would include the ability to trade and deal with bugs being taught to thk and the knight knowing how to interact with the citizens of hallownest. The general void, however, is set on consuming the most powerful being in its general area. This is why the void within the kingsmoulds attacked and killed the pale king, as the shared void mind decided to kill the pale king with enough kingsmoulds. This also explains why the void tried to consume hornet and gms, as they where the most powerful nearby. it also tried to consume the knight as the void within it had been so far distanced from the main body that it didnt recognise the knight and tried to attack it.

The radiance is also only able to control bugs with a higher mind, not simple base instinct. This is shown through every infected bug being able to be dreamnailed, while the siblings of the void simply disappear upon being dreamnailed. This would explain how that radience couldn't conrol creatures of the void.

The only exeption to this is the hollow knight. I believe that thk was not susceptible to the void due to fatherly love, but the sheer amount of time it spent directly next to the pale king left a small imprint of higher thought, just enough for the contained radiance to be able to intercept. This didnt happen to kingsmoulds either because they were not always around him (or their armour idk).

The knight obtaining voidheart unified hallownest's void under its own will - and this led to the knight sensing the information that hornet was in the void and appearing to protect her.

sorry for the block of text, but i really wanted to get this out somewhere. if you read this, then thanks, and let me know if there are any holes in the theory.

TLDR: the void is a partial hivemind operating purely off of base instinct and has branches which are separate, such as thk. it tries to consume powerful beings.

[whole holly]

well, it is mostly accurate but we don't know pale king's death, vessels are conscious and have mind, Void wants to consume anything with soul, THK was susceptible to void because unique case of him containing the radiance, also radiance can infect the Shadow Creepers to, Pale King was wrong about Void in few major ways, also void is a substance and force, not really a hivemind of beings per say but tendrils do deserve their own explanation

[graceful grail]

How did I only now realize that all the spinning wheels in cog work core are music players?

[sonic smelt]

the best guess of the pale king's death in my opinion is that he was overtaken by void, due to the dead kingsmoulds outside his chambers. shadow creepers are able to be dreamnailed, but simply come up with no dialogue but still the box, implying they just dont really think that much but still ahve a mind to be looked into. i feel like the void can still remain a substance while able to transmit information, such as yeast is similar to a fungus and can still exhibit complex behaviours. I disagree with the suggestion that vessels have a mind, as there is no evidence, but they are still able to act on their own as their void is separate to the general mass.

[whole holly]

Shadow Creepers are infected by radiance in HK, also vessels do think, they also have will, Knight exhibits bond with hornet, cognitive tasks, unifies void under his will and so on, Void is alive same way Soul is, it is force that has traits of life but isn't conventional life-form

[sonic smelt]

shadow creepers are infected in silksong?

[graceful grail]

Question, why do the bugs in bilewater keep rosaries??

[whole holly]

Pure Vessel has mind, he was trained to use nail, spells and so on

[graceful grail]

That’s what the orange eyes are

[whole holly]

i mean HK

[sonic smelt]

ah alright

[graceful grail]

THK definitely had a “will” because your Mask Defines you.

Thats why the vessels want to destroy the Radiance, because of the their shell that gave them the will to do that.

Even though hornet says the void is naturally attracted to SOUL.

[whole holly]

waiting for AppleEgg's insight

[kindred ingot]

howdy everyone

what's the topic today?

[limpid summit]

The agency of TK and THK is probably not due to Void transmitting info among itself. Void is known to respond to “imprints” of other minds, from simple Soul etched commands (Kingsmoulds) to replicating the mind of another bug in proximity (Collector.) This nature of Void is probably why the Vessel project worked how it did in the first place - if the Void was able to imprint upon the corpse of a fetus with infinite potential for growth, it would essentially be a “blank slate” of Void, able to contain Rad. The reason TK and THK exhibit more agency is because their conception as imprinted fetus minds allow them to learn like a normal bug would

I’m not sure what other people have talked about I can scroll up but that’s just one thing I saw

Let me read the whole thing actually

[kindred ingot]

interesting

[limpid summit]

Don’t take it as fact the game doesn’t really tell you this

But we don’t get a lot of “why” for the Vessel project anyway

And it’s sort of consistent with what we know abt void

[limpid summit]

But you’ve sort of struck something here

The void is a fragmented mind that goes after powerful beings

Or like specifically Soul

[kindred ingot]

I just assumed it was like "Void = Lack of something, therefore Baby filled with Void = Hollow Baby = Good"

[limpid summit]

There’s some Hornet dialogue where she says the void is hungry for soul

But the thing that separates beings from the void (and TK’s extended control of them) are the imprints I’ve mentioned

Kingsmoulds, Collector, THK all have something superseding the fragmented void mind

[light mauve]

What

[limpid summit]

You’ve pretty much got it though

[graceful grail]

One sec, ill get a pic

[kindred ingot]

being a Wingsmould must suck, like your whole purpose is to be a parkour obstacle

[limpid summit]

True

Probably an early weak imprint

“Exist” or something

[kindred ingot]

why did the Pale King even make those?

[limpid summit]

Likely a test

You can’t go straight to making guard robots

You gotta make simple robots so you know how to make robots in general

[graceful grail]

The pillers in the background are those spinning things you find in music boxes. It has the nubs that pluck the steel strips to make the music box sound

[kindred ingot]

"hm... my hypothesis was right. Void is able to imprint onto Soul runes to form lifeforms.
...I should scatter those around my palace as a form of entertainment"

[limpid summit]

Oh huh

You’re right how did I not notice that

[graceful grail]

Arent the Vessels Imprinting on their shell??

[limpid summit]

Makes sense yeah

[whole holly]

well said AppleEgg

[limpid summit]

I try nika I try

[kindred ingot]

? I was talking about Wingsmoulds

[graceful grail]

Well, they would be to right??

[kindred ingot]

...I guess...

[kindred ingot]

yeah makes sense, the whole thing is a giant music box after all

[edgy nebula]

fuuuckkk the snow is terrible

do we think fayforn was always present in mt. Fays history or do we think it came by awhile ago

mt. fay was prooooobably a volcano

[gentle aspen]

I mean its the fayforn

So

probably always around

[crimson patio]

We know it existed when the weavers were around at least

That’s quite a while I’d imagine

[dense quiver]

Maybe the reason the water ran out in Sands of Karak was because the ice in Mt. Fay melted. And it got too cold and the ice blocked the path

[vocal cipher]

s

k

l

[quartz flicker]

Do you think the Cogheart could indicate that Second Sentinel doesn't have a Silk Fly inside them?

It would make sense, as there are only a handful of Sentinels, which suggests that they are harder to make than other automatons.

Coghearts could be difficult to make.

[kindred ingot]

the other Sentinels have silk flies

[gentle aspen]

Why would that be the case?

[quartz flicker]

We don't actually see them in the Sentinels. They're just in the room with them.

[gentle aspen]

like we don’t see any ice blockages that would cause an entire area to dry up

[dense quiver]

Yeah fair. But we don’t see any direct connects between SoK and Mt. Fay

And I’m pretty sure the water that is there has ice crystals in there

[gentle aspen]

Mount fay just connects to one area

That’s not a point

[quartz flicker]

We know that the First Architect created the Cogheart, and I think it's plausible that the Whiteward Silk Fly creation process wasn't invented until later.

[dense quiver]

Yeah fair. It’s just a theory really

[quartz flicker]

The Core itself wasn't made until long after the Sentinels, and the Core requires a ton of Silk Flies for the automatons maintaining it.

[maiden meteor]

I honestly feel like fully automaton sentient life would be too much even by Hollow Knight standards

they prolly used silk flies for Sentinels still, perhaps process just wasn’t streamlined yet

and they also give silk when hit soo

[tacit crown]

is Wisp thicket an Offshoot of the Shellwood? furthermore was Greymoors vegetation a product of the shellwood?

[quartz flicker]

The Cogheart does something.

I think it's plausibly a means to make the Sentinels fully autonomous.

[fresh badger]

How? Its stated to simply be wheels and regulators

Not a magic sapient rock

[quartz flicker]

It was carefully preserved in the Citadel, suggesting it's of high value.

[tacit crown]

Silk is magical, a living bug is magical, Fire is magical, who is to say brass organized into CogHeart wouldn't have the magic

also the twelth architect despite not having a cogheart (having the Pristine Core instead) seems to have a level of awarness and opinon

[fresh badger]

imo its ignorant for them to show us every automaton is built around a silkfly, and for the sentinel room to have a silkfly for every fallen sentinel, and claim that the sentinels arent using a silkfly

[tacit crown]

sweet

and aren't the silkflies used as power sources?

yeah but the use them as lamps, and as other power sources for things such as powering the fourth courus

[fresh badger]

The silkflies are both, they're power sources and the mind that puppeteers the automaton

[tacit crown]

but... why stuff so many silkflies into the Fourth Chorus? why do they attack us when all they have is the weird- are the silkflies made of silk and that's why the automatons attack us? if that's so then why doesn't Second Sentinal attack us either way?

[quartz flicker]

Second Sentinel was made in an earlier era of the Citadel, long before the Core.

The Chorus's could be much more recent.

GMS might have some influence over robots with Silk Flies inside them.

Given that the First Sinner is located in the Slab, do you think Weavers had the Slab built when they were still ruling Pharloom?

Or was she originally imprisoned somewhere else and then later relocated to the Slab?

[sharp galleon]

The fourth chorus attacks you after you get the cloak from the pinstress it was hunting down

[tacit crown]

I get that, but like what is actually attack us, the silkflies collective will? or some imposed will

[sharp galleon]

Imposed will I'd say

With so many silkflies, just one thing would be impossible

[quartz flicker]

Is there an explanation for why the Green Prince is still alive so long after Verdania died?

Karmelita at least is visibly crazy old.

[sharp galleon]

Well he was still young

Karmelita, khann and nyleth were already ruling their kingdoms for many years

Also karmelita is just a normal mortal bug with no special bloodline

I think green Prince has something but I can't remember

[quartz flicker]

Karmelita has one of the old Hearts.

And she's clearly different from other Skarr.

[sharp galleon]

Yeah

Very different

But she's not a god

She's still mortal in the end

Even if she's stronger and better in most every way, she can only live so long

[quartz flicker]

Has something?

[sharp galleon]

Bloodline I mean

Like how the pale king is wyrm

It doesn't help that its so late either honestly

[tacit minnow]

Assista a este vídeo... 👀https://pin.it/2btvme3PJ

[dreamy onyx]

I think its more likely the Citadel drained/diverted the water for both the High Halls and the steam prsent basically everywhere

[sick sequoia]

So, if we take the lore of both games into question, who is actually stronger; The Knight or Hornet? Some sources say that Silksong as a game is harder because Hornet is inherently stronger, yet the Sister of The Void ending implies that by this point, The Knight is a god, has all of the spells, has all of the abilities, and has killed the Radiance. Hornet meanwhile has killed Grand Mother Silk (also a higher being) and Lost Lace (a product of the void).

So who's stronger? The daughter of the weaver, or her smaller brother?

[limpid summit]

TK is stronger

By the time we fight Hornet in KE she’s already going all out

By the time Silksong starts TK is a higher being yeah

Hornet defeated a weakened GMS and Lost Lace

Still pretty good feats

But TK still stronger

[sick sequoia]

But her fight in Hollow Knight doesn't account for things such as the clawline, double jump, or the other tools besides her traps

I'm not sure if that would change much but it's worth mentioning

[limpid summit]

Hornet with her skills in Silksong might beat base TK who knows

But TK’s spells also have a bit more volume to them

Dung Defender is also going all out as a Knight and we beat him

[sick sequoia]

Here's my thought process:

The Knight, if we assume it isn't the Shade Lord yet (as that would instantly make it 10x stronger than Hornet is) has a tougher shell (likely), more inherent strength due to origins, more range due to spells, more damage due to spells, and possibly more instinctual skill since that's what it was made to do.

Hornet has greater movement, her traps, and the silk - which is unclear on whether that is stronger than soul.

[limpid summit]

Fair

[sick sequoia]

From looking at the feats and abilities of both, even without being the Shade Lord, The Knight is stronger

[limpid summit]

Hornet isn’t leagues more acrobatic than TK in any case

She can run way faster and jump with more precision

In a fight that might not help her

But theyd never fight realistically ofc

[sick sequoia]

Obviously not unless TC does some crazy pantheon type thing and they throw The Knight in there at the end

But in canon yeah they'd never seriously fight to kill, Sister of The Void shows that it clearly cares about her enough to save her and a bug it's never met before

[quartz flicker]

In Dream No More, TK simply unifies the Void against the Radiance and becomes a powerful Shade.

It then appears as a Shade at the end of Silksong.

[limpid summit]

Yup

[granite grove]

can someone confirm my realisation

could you consider lace hornet’s great aunt

And also

I heard someone ask why herrah is so different to the other weavers

Why

[sinful nimbus]

in a sense

[sinful nimbus]

worth noting she got redesigned in Silksong to look substantially more like a weaver except for the horns

[limpid summit]

They really just had 2 weavers who looked weird

[whole marsh]

Real answer: retcon
Fannon answers:

1. she's an elevated drapemite
2. she's a weaver queen (turned into one after fleeing Pharloom with the purpose of reproduction)
3. her physical appearance changed during pregnancy/giving birth

There is no "cannon" explination, just theories we can come up with to try to explain the retcon in a way that could make sense in lore.

[craggy smelt]

4. she bound something, changing her appearance
5. she thought being a Dreamer was like going into hibernation so she fattened herself up, like a bear

(5 is the best one)

since her appearance changed sometime after she'd given birth to Hornet, reasons of her changing for birth or because of birth don't really follow

[limpid summit]

I still like drapeherrah

But there’s really nothing that makes perfect sense

Eh

Cryptic ama answer incoming

[silk dirge]

ok this is going to sound really silly but im doing an ethnography on the silksong community for my writing class and i need to interview people for it

so uhh does anyone here want to volunteer lol

ill just like dm you questions

[limpid summit]

Oh that sounds interesting

I’m down

[silk dirge]

alright

[ocean rampart]

.

[light mauve]

Wow

[ocean rampart]

.

[ionic stump]

if Herrah was made later she’d definitely look like an actual weaver and not whatever she is right now

[carmine veldt]

Some more interesting questions about the weavers than just why does Herrah look different are:

1. what are the stalking devouts
2. how can there be little weavers if the weavers are created and not born
3. why does midwife look the way she does

[shell magnet]

Stalking devouts are just normal bugs I think

[carmine veldt]

Lemme find some stuff rq

[spark valve]

Stalking devouts and midwife aren’t weavers

Little weavers don’t make sense and may just no longer exist

[carmine veldt]

They’re part of the “spider tribe of deepnest”

I suspect

I forget where that group is mentioned

[shell magnet]

Perhaps just really short weavers

[carmine veldt]

My theory is that the not-weavers descended from a weaver and some other spider like being

[shell magnet]

The big weird trilobite statue in beasts den maybe?

[carmine veldt]

I still have no clue what that is

But maybe

That still leaves the issue of herrah’s head shape unaccounted for too tho

[shell magnet]

The big dude

[carmine veldt]

I mean I know what ur talking about

But idk what it is in the lore

[shell magnet]

I think it's called "weaver king" or something in game assets

[carmine veldt]

That’d make sense

Wait what if herrah removed her weaver mask (like widow) to adopt the dreamer mask (or for some other reason)

[shell magnet]

Still doesn't explain why she's fat af

[carmine veldt]

Yea that I’m gonna presume is because of giving birth

Somewhere says it’s difficult and painful for weavers

So them getting mutilated by it isn’t out of the question

[shell magnet]

True

[spark valve]

It is in fact out of the question

Red memory takes place after hornet’s birth and her body is normal

[shell magnet]

Not really

She's covered by a shroud

[spark valve]

They retconned her desig

Yes really

Her appearance in red memory is completely inconsistent with her appearance in HK she lacks the large body entirely

[carmine veldt]

She is wearing a cloak

[edgy nebula]

they took a few inches off of er

[spark valve]

They took her entire body off her

[carmine veldt]

The weavers are like stick figures tho

She could still be a lot fatter than weavers are supposed to be

[spark valve]

No reason to assume she is when they completely removed all sign of her body being different from a weaver

It’s a retcon like as cut and dry as it could possibly be

[shell magnet]

But she is different than weavers. Her horns are still there?

[spark valve]

Weavers have heads inside their outer shells

Like widow

[shell magnet]

Widow doesn't have horns

[spark valve]

She doesn’t have to

[shell magnet]

What

[spark valve]

Weavers had heads inside their outer shells

[carmine veldt]

Correct, but they’re arguing that widow doesn’t have horns, which contradicts herrah having them.

[spark valve]

They may all have varying horns under there

Some members of a species can have more pronounced ones than others

[carmine veldt]

Basically my thoughts

[shell magnet]

Seems like a pretty big difference to simply wave away as genetic variation

Herrah could be fat because of genetic variation...

[carmine veldt]

I mean think about the vessels

[spark valve]

Not really horns vary within a species all the time

[shell magnet]

But all vessels have horns, just of varying shapes whereas widow has none and herrah has pretty big ones

[carmine veldt]

Widow could have horns tho

[shell magnet]

Also doesn't herrah have her weaver mask on in this scene? She's not a dreamer yet

[carmine veldt]

Brb

Kinda terrible drawing because I don’t have an Apple Pencil and took like 5 seconds but smth like this is possible

[shell magnet]

Well no because eye holes don't line up

Maybe

Maybe tiny nubs

At best

[carmine veldt]

The eye holes don’t necessarily have to line up

It’s established that the citadel bugs wear veils

The eyes could be decorative or symbolic

[shell magnet]

She's blind the whole time? 😭

[carmine veldt]

Maybe

Or maybe the veils are just to look cool and they’re see through from the inside like Halloween costume masks

Who knows atp

[shell magnet]

I think that either
There's an explanation for herrah looking like that
Or team cherry kept the horns to make her recognizable, and retconned her design to a normal weaver

[carmine veldt]

She could still be fat here

[shell magnet]

Horrendous posture

[carmine veldt]

Yea

[shell magnet]

Ofc it could be a storytelling thing, making a giant chair was perhaps not tc's highest priority

[carmine veldt]

That’s fair

I think that TC probably did retcons and stuff but didn’t want to mess with the designs

But ima make headcannon for all of Ts anyways

[limpid summit]

Little weavers are grouped up with deeplings and deephunters in WJ

I guess retroactively they’re like weird Weaver cosplayers or something

[high bronze]

I still never really understood that

Deepnest still feels like an anomaly with its enemies

[jagged sun]

Since GMS elevated the Weavers from Pharlids, she probably also elevated some of the cloth spider things to make Herrah, and during their escape from Pharloom, all of the other Weavers elevated from the cloth ones probably died.

That's my theory at least

[granite grove]

Could she be a second attempt at whatever Eva was

Eva was meant to replace gms right?

So (correct me if I’m wrong) it would make sense to make her the ruler of the hallownest weavers as Eva would have done for pharloom (I don’t know much abt lore tho)

[terse warren]

I don't see why Herrah should be made of something different then the others

She just has her mask off like Widow

[steep ridge]

hornet notices similarities between herself and pharlids so herrah was ascended from a pharlid like other weavers

[marble oasis]

5 is genuinely the only one that has no contradictions

[spring merlin]

What if Herrah looking different is kinda like how salmon look different in their mating season?

[muted lantern]

What kind of exclamations would the citadel folk use instead of like our worlds religion based ones like "good god" "Godammnit" "by the gods" "Jesus christ" etc. Since they don't really worship gods in the citadel but the citadel itself and the weavers.

[spring merlin]

Well what are exclamations used by non-monotheistic religions irl?

[shy linden]

”D*mn Arachnids”

[muted lantern]

Im more looking for ones based in their religion rather than just generic ones

[spring merlin]

Well thinking about it don’t they essentially worship the “holy song”?

[muted lantern]

I mean yeah he defo got a falconry hood on.

[shy linden]

he blind as a bat except bats aren’t blind they see you and blow up

[muted lantern]

I don't think him being made of meat is significant tho, i think thats most bugs. bugs in silksongs world arent like regular bugs, and we see lots of bug meat like the couriers rasher.

They cook lugioli?

[shy linden]

I guess, most people never stumble back into that room ever again after beating him

MY conclusion is this guy is right

[muted lantern]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586931790208434203/1451071795389272074/image0.gif

[hidden crater]

Kill 7 billion bugs

[sharp imp]

Finally I see someone who has found the bell shield thingy

Ive seen so many ppl that dont have it

warding bell

[maiden meteor]

kinda curious that Pharloom seems to be way higher than Hallownest

in Hallownest Abyss is like small walk length

while in Pharloom it feels like miles deep

even from Marrow

[twilit pecan]

Well from the layout of the map pharloom looks to be made into a mountainous area while hollownest is in a valley, so there has to be more mining done to get to the same level of the abyss as hollow nest

[muted lantern]

Pharloom seems built into some kinda volcano if the magma all over the lower regions is to be believed.

It would make sense for GMS to set up in a mountain since we know her influence only projects downward.

[twilit pecan]

You could also say that because the void is a more used substance in hollownest it was made to be closer to the person using it, aka the pale king

[loud perch]

Is the fact that game file has files of more projects of GMS in exhaust organ besides lace and phantom and being similar to the three memory bossess canon

[bitter raptor]

was the knight technically hollow when he saved hornet

[stray fog]

No

The knight wasn't hollow during hk either

It was already attached to hornet
Because winged nosk takes the form of hornet

[lyric rose]

They toast them buns

Like it’s Parappa 2

[noble linden]

what is the battle of the black wyrm

[low steppe]

We don’t know. The only direct mention is from the White Defender’s journal entry.

There is mention of the Blackbarrens in silksong, though whether the two are related is very unclear

All those two had in common is having Black in their name

Some speculate that the Battle of the Black Wyrm had something to do with the Colosseum of Fools, as it resides within the shell of an ancient bug, who some believe may be the cast off shell of the Black Wyrm just as the one in the east of Kingdom’s Edge is the cast off shell of the Pale Wyrm

[noble linden]

oki I was asking coz i just finished 112% hk and wanted to know lore

[low steppe]

Probably do that in #hk-lore if you haven’t played Silksong yet

[noble linden]

i think the collosseum of fools one is king fool who was also a wyrm i think played silksong 100% too

[low steppe]

Ah ok

Yeah, we don’t get any more clarification on the Black Wyrm

all we can do is speculate

[noble linden]

ok bye thanks

[low steppe]

ok bye

Why can Karmelita speak to us, but the Mottled Skarr cannot?

Is Karmelita bilingual?

Why isn’t the Mottled Skarr?

[robust wagon]

Bc karmelita is cooler (also because they likely stopped teaching the common language of Pharloom after karmelita started to get older and the skarr society fell apart)

[light mauve]

Because he probably grew up in that tribe and never left the hunters march
While Karmellita being a leader needed the language to communicate with other rulers?

Idk

Maybe

Or he is just uneducated

[sick sequoia]

Hornet of course being the one getting her ass kicked

Literally how is the knight not stronger

It has far greater feats and power than she does

[robust wagon]

Architect crest & faster healing

In a real fight between the two (post silksong) TK would never be able to heal

[sick sequoia]

What you think the shade lord cares about cogflies?

In lore the knight is stronger

In an in-game fight maybe not

[robust wagon]

See you fail to realise that TK is not the shade lord, that's all the vessel (excluding THK) as one being

So it's not a 1v1

Or at least not a fair one

[sick sequoia]

See you're thinking from a game perspective

I'm thinking from a lore perspective and the knight has slain multiple full-strength gods, the most Hornet's done is killed a weakened GMS

[robust wagon]

Well, all I have to say to that is that HK has 4 DLCs, and Silksong has none. Who's to say that Hornet doesn't go full Kratos in the future DLCs? That's why I try not to talk about HK DLCs when talking about TK & Hornet fighting

[sick sequoia]

Even without the DLCs, the Radiance was at or at nearly full power, while GMS was far weaker than she used to be

[robust wagon]

What makes you so sure about that?

[sick sequoia]

...The lore of the game we're talking about right now

[robust wagon]

I'm asking where such things are said in said games

[sick sequoia]

Okay I'm not sure

[robust wagon]

Ah

[sick sequoia]

Also if you think we're doing a fair 1v1 then why would Hornet cheat with architect

[robust wagon]

So no charms for the knight then?

Ha

Even with just hunter, the focus can go crazy

[prime mantle]

she's royalty, it'd make sense she'd need to learn it. no other skarr speaks it either

[sick sequoia]

Doesn't matter when a shade soul to the face likely does 2 masks

[prime mantle]

maybe gurr does idk. he doesn't really speak

[robust wagon]

And a silk skill doesn't?

Silk skills are cheaper than spells

[unreal estuary]

All of Hornet's Silk Skills that appear in Hollow Knight deal only 1 mask to the Knight

[robust wagon]

We're talking about post silksong

[unreal estuary]

Oh I see

[prime mantle]

knight prolly wins but who does he slay besides radi

[unreal estuary]

Then honestly probably but only the ones that don't appear in Hollow Knight like Sharpdart or Pale Nails

[robust wagon]

Yeah if it was pre TK already beats her lol

[prime mantle]

she could have been holding back in hk so not necessarily

[sick sequoia]

Nightmare King and (technically not a higher being) Pure Vessel, and he becomes the lead of the Shade Lord I'm pretty sure

[bleak maple]

So can anyone explain to me how exactly masks in this world work?

[sick sequoia]

If I recall right she says in Kingdom's Edge that she'll feel no sympathy for "cutting down a weakling" so Kingdom's Edge is her going all out at that point in HK

[prime mantle]

nmk literally fights tk to be beaten, that is what is needed to have the ritual. pure vessel counts, and i thought we were talking before either of them ascend

[bleak maple]

Cuz they kinda give you personality.. but also not? because we have characters who do not wear em?

[robust wagon]

Or Silk spear, rune rage, or cross stitch

[sick sequoia]

Now, by Silksong she's probably stronger but again, you can't just ignore the DLCs when the Shade Lord is CONFIRMED as canon

[prime mantle]

not everyone needs a mask but some people do