sk-lore

[foggy fractal]

guh

[fathom hill]

Ig the nail dialogue for the devouts and the little weavers is "protect herrah... protect the brood" which reminds me of the bees

there's really not a chance that her role as a brood mother may have changed her in that way?

which would track with Hornet saying that herrah could surpass the curse

[vestal swan]

Well she's not literally a brood mother and if she was she would have grown like Vespa did not just like a balloon

[wise sand]

Oh i mixed it up oops

[vestal swan]

Because Carmelita grows the same way

[stray fog]

That's the most likely explanation

[fathom hill]

maybe its a gradual change? she did have to abandon everything for her new found role as dreamer

[vestal swan]

Even if it was a gradual change it's been ages

[fathom hill]

but yeah both of them kind of just grow

[vestal swan]

Her dreamer body would barely fit in that room anymore

[fathom hill]

I meant ages acting as such, we do see karmelita in the memories having a medium sized body and I'm sure at that point she's had some children no?

Maybe herrah was also in this halfway state but she stopped growing when she became a dreamer

[vestal swan]

Weird assumption to make that Carmelita already has children, that was her and her prime she might not have properly taken over yet, she was literally in the middle of the arena

[fathom hill]

I think she has needolin dialogue in the memory

Lemme check

[vestal swan]

How the hell is anybody expected to get needle dialogue in the middle of these fights

[fathom hill]

yah shes had children lol

[edgy nebula]

she refers to the skarr as her children

[foggy fractal]

debug trust

[edgy nebula]

if theyre her biological kids or not it isnt explained

[foggy fractal]

that or during the stuns

[fathom hill]

prolly biological basing myself in irl bug behavior

ants and bees yknow

[edgy nebula]

thing is the hj states she united the tribes of skarr in her service

[fathom hill]

Only one we can't base ourselves is in spider me think, though I'm no bug scientist

[vestal swan]

Debug could show things that gameplay can't access so it has to be found in game before they put it on the wiki

[fathom hill]

Karmelita gets stunted sometimes no?

prolly with those

[foggy fractal]

I'm sure you have enough time to get in at least one dialogue organically during stuns

[fathom hill]

or lucky with shots the fatass ant is fast

[foggy fractal]

and then just rince and repeat till you get all of them

people just use debug for convience sake

or they check like datamines of the game

[fathom hill]

I'm again tempted to believe in the little weavers being Herrah's offspring thing and that role made her bloated for that reason

[vestal swan]

You can't just check the game files because then you could find things like thk's dnd

[vestal swan]

It's really out there to think that somehow these are related to hornet and just completely ignored when the possibility of just an unknown number of weavers had an unknown amount of success having children in deep nest is entirely plausible and creates no issues

[foggy fractal]

yeah yeah again Im sure you have enough time to get in at least one dialogue organically during stuns

[fathom hill]

I mean surely giving the cradles commandment thing

But again I'm just making comparisons with the hive giving the dream nail dialogue

if she was the brood mother itd make sense

doesn't the lore tablet describing deepnest say that herrah is the mother of the beasts in there?

obviously that's before the retcon but I'm trying to tie stuff there if they wanted to make sense of it

[limpid summit]

Yes but that’s sort of just her being the queen

The king is called dead sire

[fathom hill]

Obviously this back when Herrah was indeed "but the common beast"

[fathom hill]

yah but being the queen implies things for bugs no? specially if she is quite literally being called mother

Only one i can think of a counterargument is the white lady, though she was mother but not of hallownest

[limpid summit]

Iunno little weaver dnd doesn’t give Herrah any motherly weight

[drifting trellis]

Hehe I started this topic

[fathom hill]

I just like the idea of actually having a solid theory of why herrah looks like that instead of

yknow the fact its a retcon, at least itd have some explanation

[unique tangle]

Well the weavers are still just bugs, bugs with silk abilities but they’re still just regular bugs so I think that line still works

[fathom hill]

Surely but i dunno if at that point tc really were thinking on making Herrah a weaver is my point

[unique tangle]

Yeah she def was not a weaver

[fathom hill]

The beasts of deepnest and the weavers are defined different things

[unique tangle]

But I think that lore tablet still works even if she was a weaver

[fathom hill]

Oh sure

[lean temple]

Sure, but even GMS is called a beast by Lace which seems like its trying to reconcile the two

[charred nimbus]

Oh, i remember the discussion from this lore tablet we had days ago

I got it completely wrong because i haven't seen the lore tablet, so they were talking about Herrah's dead husband

[sinful nimbus]

Weavers are beasts

[fathom hill]

tbf Lace is kind of pissed off at that point no?

[sinful nimbus]

But "Common beast" is contrasting against the social status of the "Honored caste"

[fathom hill]

beast in this case could just be an insult rather than just classification

[lean temple]

Yea

[unique tangle]

There’s also Romino’s line about GMS’s “beast’s nature to bare to all”

[fathom hill]

the caretaker also describes Hornet's words as beastly I'm sure

[fathom hill]

Yah

[sinful nimbus]

Insults mean something

[charred nimbus]

Did the mushrooms have a military? they all sound like common joe

[sinful nimbus]

"Get a load of these guys I heard their queen is a filthy commoner" still indicates something about the queen

[fathom hill]

were the mushrooms classist

[charred nimbus]

i always found then to be so dumb

[sinful nimbus]

What did Mister Mushroom mean by this

[charred nimbus]

i have no idea if they are into social studies

[fathom hill]

that's what happens when your mind is smushed with all the other minds of your kind

they have average intelligence for their species

[sinful nimbus]

Are we discriminating against hive minds now

[charred nimbus]

yes

[fathom hill]

Maybe

[unique tangle]

Name one hive mind colony that didn’t fall to ruin

[sinful nimbus]

The only immortal thing in this franchise is connected to the mushroom hivemind

[fathom hill]

Ss is already all abt personal freedom if you need a hive mind to care about your fellow bug then you're just weak

OR an asshole

[charred nimbus]

I mean, to be completely fair, that's a hard statement considering the things that cause downfall on the citzens is a mind controlling thing

[fathom hill]

I obviously base my whole value system on what team cherry has to say abt the world but that's another topic

for hopefully never

[charred nimbus]

This makes me wonder what the fuck Herrah's husband was

[sinful nimbus]

King

[charred nimbus]

Deepnest is cozy but it seens like a shithole, did they have a flourishing society before Herrah?

[fathom hill]

i was gonna say imagine if it was another pale being

[frosty beacon]

are mask maker (hollow knight) and mask maker (silksong) related at all?

[sinful nimbus]

Spiders are the most intelligent species, after all

[fathom hill]

but other pale being mentioned in hk is like the one pale lurker and I didn't likenthat

[sinful nimbus]

They're probably contracted to do the same task by the same group/individual

[fathom hill]

Prolly something to do with the one bug bug with the tubes in deepnest

[edgy nebula]

same job, same powers, nothing else really

[frosty beacon]

i ask because what's the deal with them having same eyes?

[edgy nebula]

they wear masks too

[fathom hill]

it always wounds up to have something to do with that thing

[sinful nimbus]

Mask Makers have "the sight" which allows them to read the identity/mask/crest of a bug

[frosty beacon]

ooh

[edgy nebula]

special mask maker power that lets them see the identity of bugs

[charred nimbus]

Mr mushroom also has the same eye, wich is interesting

[frosty beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/noted-anime-gif-25088894

[fathom hill]

Prolly it was always like this just with less spider webs

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet: You have the sight, Maker. Tell me what you see in me?
Mask Maker: Your mask... It reads clear enough, Old One. Watcher, hunter, monarch even, though you may reject that station.
A complex visage, perhaps, yet still to my sight it looks unresolved.
Hornet: If you see a transitional state, it is one I have accepted. My mask has remained defined through lifetimes uncounted.
Mask Maker: Aye. Rigid I'm sure, but your kind rarely develop evenly, and the lifetime of bugs are poor measure for one like you.
Could be there's more growth awaiting you yet...

[frosty beacon]

is ts from wiki

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

Its his unmasked dialogue

[charred nimbus]

I think the mysterious figure in deepnest is actually an idol rather then a burial site, but my real wonder is how advanved and quality like Deepnest was as a kingdom or if it was a real kingdom before the whole Pale king thing

[fathom hill]

Not much info on it ig

Whatever it looked like we don't have anything that could describe it

or the king for that matter

[edgy nebula]

it’s a pokenabbin, trust

[fathom hill]

absolutely not

[edgy nebula]

on my soul it’s a pokenabbin

[fathom hill]

I don't see it

whoever said they looked similar was wrong, even the mouth part is like inverse or totally different by that matter

[sterile jacinth]

I wonder if it was commandeered by the weavers. Like did they just take over? I wouldn’t put it past them

[lone folio]

holy moly guacamole

[sterile jacinth]

“Lesser spiders. Let’s rule them like the gods we are”

[charred nimbus]

Why would they choose Herrah to rule then? i guess it's another point to the fact i'm extremely mad Herrah isn't mentioned anywhere in Silksong outside the Red memory....

it makes sense since she wasn't supposed to be a weaver

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe she ruled after the other weavers left? I don’t know a lot of it feels retconed

[charred nimbus]

But i hate this retcon since it was a clear plotline in the first game and this is a sequel

[fathom hill]

Herrah's capacity of bearing children if I had to tie it with the other topic

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe the lesser spiders just followed Herrah

[fathom hill]

Or maybe Herrah was just stronger or it was arbitrary

[sterile jacinth]

And the other weavers more or less were just there

[charred nimbus]

I just don't understand this whole Herrah retcon that messes the story so much, since it was kind of a important plot on the first game and the second one was in development for 7 years

[fathom hill]

They really just needed Herrah to be a weaver for the story they wanted to tell

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe she was the one who made a deal with the pale king so they let her rule

We’re trying to fit it into the story the best we can

[fathom hill]

I assumed they thought it wasn't a big deal since in hk Herrah's nature ain't really that clear for the average player

she is just Hornets mum yknow

[sterile jacinth]

And a dreamer

[fathom hill]

Yah

[sterile jacinth]

The dreamer aspect could be the reason the lesser spiders worship her

[charred nimbus]

I know i'm being a crybaby about this, but for me it's very out of character for a dev team who made a fun boss rush mode that developed the game's story so much

[sterile jacinth]

Save them from the infection

[charred nimbus]

But i'll stop complaining about this now LMAO

We can work with what we have

[fathom hill]

I mean i understand that retcons are annoying if you're a nerd

But it really isn't that important imo

[sterile jacinth]

I bet the other weavers felt they were above sacrificing themselves to save hallownest

[fathom hill]

I'll stick with my Herrah brood mother theory for now with lack of a better explanation

[sterile jacinth]

I like the idea that the other weavers didn’t worship her but the lesser bugs did

[charred nimbus]

That's possible, considering the red memory Herrah had devouts even before becoming a dreamer, but in that moment of the story she was already planned on becoming one

[fathom hill]

When you say lesser spiders you mean the ones that are in deepnest in hk?

[sterile jacinth]

Yea

[fathom hill]

while the other weavers fled and left her there

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think the ones that climb on walls are related to weavers

[fathom hill]

They aren't

[sterile jacinth]

It’s a big sacrifice and I imagine a very respectable one

[charred nimbus]

Are the stalking devouts spiders?

[sterile jacinth]

I think they’re just ones unrelated to weavers

[fathom hill]

Someone said that the little weavers could also be the infection kind of returning them to their feral state

Yknow to pharlids

And that's why they shrinked

[sterile jacinth]

Yea we don’t see that anywhere else I think they’re offspring of weavers and the native spiders

If anything infection makes things bigger like the traitor mantises

[limpid summit]

It ties alright into the themes of motherhood and forging your own path, though personally I think this could have still been achieved by the Weavers coveting Hornet’s powers as a unique blend of spider and Wyrm mirroring theirs. This wouldn’t ruin anything from HK
I suppose dialogue is made more convenient if every character can just call Hornet a Weaver but like even WL calls her Spider she really did not have to be one

[fathom hill]

Ah yeah kind of

[limpid summit]

The only retcon I personally am disappointed about

Cause Deepnest is cool

[fathom hill]

Like lifeblood it bloats them

[sterile jacinth]

Oh I bet they absolutely coveted hornets power

[unique tangle]

Herrah being a weaver is kinda needed for the silk retcon

Since silk is now a special power from GMS and only her children can create and weave it naturally

[limpid summit]

GMS being its source?

[unique tangle]

So Herrah needed to be a weaver for Hornet to have it

[limpid summit]

Yeah but like idk what do we now call the Devout webs and Nosk’s filament

They’re still silk

[sterile jacinth]

“Weaver and wyrm, you’re more clever than I thought Herrah”

[limpid summit]

Maybe not Silk capitalized

soul vs Soul

[fathom hill]

ah yeah the silk Hornet produces is kind of different

[sterile jacinth]

Hmm that is a good question

[fathom hill]

but i understand the problem with gms being the source of all silk

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think it’s stated that she’s the source of all of it. It could be that some bugs can use it naturally. We don’t really know. Maybe it’s just a type of silk unconnected to soul

[fathom hill]

I think its one of her titles actually, source of all silk

[sterile jacinth]

Nosk seems to have some kind of connection to either soul or mind or something for being able to mimick prey so authentically

[fathom hill]

idk where its stated though lemme check

[sterile jacinth]

Aaah ok

[abstract rivet]

Question is why does GMS want Silk if she legit fucking is a silk ball herself and has silk in her name

[limpid summit]

Monarch of Pharloom, and the primal source of Silk.

Technically this could just be like her being a large source of it and not the progenitor of all beings that utilize it I get that’s not how it’s actually read

[unique canopy]

She's the primal source, meaning the first or primary source, not the only

[sterile jacinth]

Aaah ok that makes sense

[limpid summit]

She was sleeping for a while and maybe her silk isn’t enough to sustain Lace

[sterile jacinth]

She doesn’t

[fathom hill]

Primal source of Silk

[abstract rivet]

Why is she on our ass then

[sterile jacinth]

Because you’re weaver kin. Child of the traitors

The conductors are the ones that crave silk. That craving made the haunting as bad as it is

[abstract rivet]

Bro Hornet never knew about GMS before ts what is this level of pettiness

[fathom hill]

Obviously as stated, is she the primal source of silk, as in others can make it naturally she just makes most of it, or is she the primal source of Silk, as in silk and Silk are different things

[sterile jacinth]

It’s grand mother silk. She’s so petty and narcissistic. That’s part of her character

[unique canopy]

It's because she's the primal source that the Weavers, whom she uplifted, could produce silk, but they can do so independently without needing her, which in turn might be why she wants Weaverkin to use their strength to restore herself, like in the cut bad ending.

[abstract rivet]

why do they crave Silk lowkey

[frosty beacon]

actually bottom 1 hb deadass

[fathom hill]

Or is she the primal source of Silk, as in there's more Silk in pharloom she just made most of it

[sterile jacinth]

It lengthens life. Injury and death are sins in the citadel

[abstract rivet]

ah yeah

[fathom hill]

Giving how Hornet produces her own Silk, the weavers may have done the same so

[abstract rivet]

Idk why im asking questions that I already know about

[fathom hill]

we already have some other sources of Silk

[sterile jacinth]

I have no doubt binding hornets own strength to herself would make her stronger but I don’t think it’s cause she needs her silk

[sterile jacinth]

I think this is implied pretty heavily yea

[abstract rivet]

Lace after Sister of Void legit cannot survive if Hornet gets in trouble

[sterile jacinth]

Unless she somehow binds Eva to herself but yeah lol

[fathom hill]

Could Lace bind? she's no weaver

[peak mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/kirby-falling-kirby-falling-kirby-dead-kirby-fall-gif-18178630024758591845

[sterile jacinth]

I dunno. No clear answer. Binding also seems to be something Hornet can do because of her Wyrm side. Or at least that’s what I got

[fathom hill]

I mean what the knight did was slightly different so not sure

[abstract rivet]

She is basically some magical silk doll

Maybe if she learned Binding but i dont know

[fathom hill]

also the weavers in stone are the ones that actively offer themselves to Hornet so it must be a weaver thing

[sterile jacinth]

Yea we don’t know if she can do something like that. It’s speculation and she will probably still rely on Hornet to live

[fathom hill]

that phrasing is wrong

[sterile jacinth]

That’s true

[fathom hill]

huhhh

[abstract rivet]

is there anyone in Pharloom whos lesbian confirmed

[fathom hill]

hornet

[sterile jacinth]

No confirmation for anyone lol

[unique canopy]

Binding is also simply her using her own silk to heal herself or remake tools on the fly, so it's definitely silk based

[sterile jacinth]

Oh that is true. Fs binds silk too

[fathom hill]

We traded the lesbians for the nb baddies

[unique canopy]

The two conchflies

[sterile jacinth]

And the doomed yaoi

[unique tangle]

other than GMS and the Weavers, its stated that at least in Pharloom there's no other bugs that could produce silk

[fathom hill]

we got yaoi in both tbf that's unchanged

[sterile jacinth]

I think binding crests is something unique to hornets wyrm side

[fathom hill]

trobbio

[sterile jacinth]

That’s true but this one is doomed yaoi where the other one is wholesome yaoi

Hallownest has doomed yuri

[frosty beacon]

hmm?

[fathom hill]

Yah but are the weavers enough to revoke gms title as only source of it?

[sterile jacinth]

Gray mourner and traitor child

[fathom hill]

if she did have that title at some point

[unique tangle]

the weaver's silk comes from GMS

[fathom hill]

is it no longer accurate now cuz of the weavers or other pale beings with silk powers?

[unique tangle]

so yeah GMS is still the source i dont think that changes her title

[sterile jacinth]

Or at least their ability to weave it

[fathom hill]

Ah ig Hornet is a different case then

[frosty beacon]

isn't ne'mer a babysitter for traitor child when mantis' were doing something busy

[unique tangle]

its their ability to produce it thats prized

[fathom hill]

Cuz Hornet does produce her own silk via the soul of bugs

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t actually know lol. I thought they were a couple

[unique tangle]

weaving silk can be learned as evidenced by the citadel

[fathom hill]

But the weavers do mention feeling their power fading so maybe

[frosty beacon]

because canonically there is a humongous age gap so

[unique canopy]

The ability to weave silk comes from GMS in the sense that her creating them gave them that ability, but like
hypothetically if GMS died while the weavers were still around they'd still be able to make silk.

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah

[unique tangle]

but only GMS's spawn can produce silk naturally

[sterile jacinth]

Ough maybe never mind then lol

[fathom hill]

Hornet's Silk is more of her being daughter of a pale being, which are indeed soul using bugs

[sterile jacinth]

You see first sinner using silk so I don’t think so

And widow notably can’t because she has pins lodged in her back

[fathom hill]

Wait yeah where's the wholesome yuri

[unique tangle]

hornet's silk is also from the weavers, as stated in the red memory

[fathom hill]

the guys in sinner road?

[frosty beacon]

transfem ghost x myla

[unique tangle]

the weavers want her to show her silk to prove her weaver lineage not her wyrm lineage

[fathom hill]

fuck forgot their names

[sterile jacinth]

Hornet x Shakra my beloved

[sterile jacinth]

Lmao crull and Benjin??

[fathom hill]

Exactly

well it was doomed in the end nevermind

[fathom hill]

yah but not canon sadly

[unique canopy]

Additionally, First Sinner can use her silk to heal herself mid-fight like Hornet can, although not as quickly

[fathom hill]

we did indeed trade wholesome yuri for nb baddies

[sterile jacinth]

Yea exactly

[fathom hill]

can't complain second sentinel it's cool

[sterile jacinth]

Not impossible either. That one is more of a hc lol

[valid coral]

But she also heals around 100 health per bind so yknow

[unique canopy]

She heals like 10% of her health that's like Hornet healing 1 mask

[fathom hill]

Huhh ig? but only thing we know is they are friends at least

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah. Not confirmed nor denied (copium + hc)

[fathom hill]

Never ask a man his salary a woman her weight or me what do i ship

[abstract rivet]

she rejected both in the end

[unique tangle]

? what

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah part of hornets story is finding out who she wants to be

[abstract rivet]

I don’t think Hornet embraced wyrmm or weaver lineage

she just did her own thing

[unique tangle]

no like yea, but what does this have to do with the discussion of where her silk comes from

[abstract rivet]

Idk twin

[sterile jacinth]

Both sides of her family placed huge expectations on her and she decided not to follow either of those. Consciously at least. She did end up taking care of gms but not because the weavers told her to

[fathom hill]

they said they just say shit sometimes

[abstract rivet]

her silk comes from weavers i think due to red memory

[fathom hill]

which fair i do too

[unique tangle]

people really be saying stuff

just to say stuff

[abstract rivet]

yea im just the “bro just typing shit” guy

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah I agree. It might be amplified because of her wyrm side but that’s pure speculation

[fathom hill]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/678454768934322186.gif?size=512&animated=true&name=hornetbob

[abstract rivet]

Pale Beings and Weavers bottom tier species except Hornet

[limpid summit]

Her wyrm nature is the malleable side of her and contributes to her binding and spellcasting

[abstract rivet]

legit most of the time they contribute nothing to society

[limpid summit]

Like Pale Nails probably isn’t all GMS’s arm

[sterile jacinth]

I hc that weavers kinda sound like Yzma from emperors new groove

Maybe less comedic

[abstract rivet]

soo.. do we have any idea why Voltnest exists

[sterile jacinth]

You’re more taking on her power and binding it to yourself

[fathom hill]

at least their societies get plumbing and food

sure these are either stolen or sketchy source but yknow

[sterile jacinth]

Hey put some respect on pale king

He tried his best to make the best possible kingdom for his subjects

Not his fault is was doomed

[fathom hill]

Beast all the same

he wanted worship he got it ig

[sterile jacinth]

He did not force others to worship him

[spark valve]

dunno why one would assume it's not just endemic

[sterile jacinth]

He let the huge and the mantises and deepnest be independent

Hive

[fathom hill]

tbf the three of them wouldn't have relinquished easily either

greenpath on the other hand

[sterile jacinth]

Also his failures weighed so heavy on him that he practically committed suicide

[fathom hill]

We don't know this though

I don't even know if it's implied

[sterile jacinth]

That’s what I read from the context

[fathom hill]

He did have shame for it that's fair

Or may I don't know

[sterile jacinth]

No he definitely does

[fathom hill]

yah but context implies things

[sterile jacinth]

I think it’s outright stated in the thing that seals the abyss

[fathom hill]

I want to know where was it implied that he commited suicide

the pose in the throne?

[sterile jacinth]

Well it wasn’t the infection

I actually have to go. I just thought his shame got to him

[sinful nimbus]

The two things we know about PK is that he was incredibly sad and is now dead

Grief/suicide seems the most likely option

[fathom hill]

He was shameful but idk if sad?

[lone folio]

It's probably his regrets

[fathom hill]

Ig we know that he was lonely, given he liked to stay in his palace

Specially after the white lady left to be in the garden

[sinful nimbus]

"Refuse and regret" his palace is also entirely booby trapped to prevent any unwanted visitors and he sealed a memory of him and his child behind a platforming gauntlet

[fathom hill]

No wait you're right it must be suicide

[lone folio]

His throne room (which should be as pale as the rest of the palace) is very dark and void-ish

[fathom hill]

textbook sad man

wife left him and died

[sinful nimbus]

I'd assume the void is from the dead kingsmoulds next room over

[fathom hill]

Ah yeah could also be the regret thing again

[lethal burrow]

I think it was the void that got him for several reasons

[lone folio]

I don't think we get to see any other void in the throne room except for the darker asthetic and void particles, If it was the void from the kingsmoulds I would expect there to be things like void tentacles and stuff. Also the fact that he died of regrets is much more dramatic and awesome then "aw fuck his machine spilled some oil all over and he somehow died because of it"

[lethal burrow]

The weird Kingsmoulds outside the throne room, the void tendrils invading into the Kingmould the white Palace is stored in, the void particles in the throne room, the fact that we know void seeks out and devours soul (which, judging by the King soul, the pale king seems to be in abundant, if not infinite source of) etc etc I'm sure there's more but you get the point haha

[sinful nimbus]

I agree that it is likely symbolic of his regrets but idk if that's what's going on on a diegetic level

And I don't think the dead kingsmoulds' void killed him either

[lethal burrow]

just because his void was there doesn't mean it is there anymore tbf

[lone folio]

Why wouldn't it be? If it does seek soul staying close to his corpse would still be desirable

That thing is probably still radiating it into the air

[sinful nimbus]

PK's corpse doesn't have any soul left

Oh Kingsoul though

[lone folio]

The godseekers talk about his afterglow

Which could mean that his corpse is still doing it's beacon and soul stuff even after his death

And also why the fuck would the void tendrils go somewhere else? And where would they go???

Did they crawl back inside their kingmould shells??

[rugged sigil]

theres void tendrils attached to the physical kingsmould corpse so the way i saw it was void creapt into the dream world to kill the pk

[lethal burrow]

When you hit his corpse, you get no soul

and the King's soul only functions when combined

[lilac hedge]

Well yeah im pretty sure you dont get soul from any dead enemy

[lone folio]

Only functions as a charm

[frigid prism]

You acctally do tho

With dreamnail right?

[lilac hedge]

From which enemy again?

[lethal burrow]

i'm not denying that

[rugged sigil]

i mean hitting pv is technically a corpse

[lilac hedge]

You get it while they are alive tho, another thing is entering their dreams

Or getting essence

[lone folio]

Otherwise it has some soul left in it I'm sure

[rugged sigil]

and its not like adding void would make it give out soul

[lethal burrow]

it only performs its effect of producing endless soul when combined, I'm sure 1/2 of it could be used for some other activity like opening beer, cans or something, but it does not have that magical effect on its own as only a half

[lethal burrow]

I don't see it

[upbeat fog]

What bug could grandmother silk possibly be

[frosty beacon]

not

[sterile jacinth]

God

[frosty beacon]

there are plenty of creatures in both games that are not bugs

[sterile jacinth]

I just realized she has 10 limbs if you count her weird legs as 2 limbs

[lilac hedge]

Silky bug

[frosty beacon]

idt those are legs

[sterile jacinth]

Pale king is more of a dragon and while lady is a… tree?

Neither of them are really bugs lol

[lilac hedge]

Pale king wyrm and wl a root

[foggy fractal]

she just isn't one

[sterile jacinth]

It adds to the otherworldly aspect that the higher beings have

[prime scaffold]

Is Silksong themed off of Steampunk?

[sterile jacinth]

I’d say some places especially cogwork core are inspired but it’s not the entire aesthetic

[upbeat fog]

I was about to say what if she is this as a joke but yall are fast

[lilac hedge]

Some parts in the citadel ig

[upbeat fog]

There is multiple themes but steam punk is one

[rugged sigil]

is skull tyrant big from the citadel experiments like moorwing or is it just naturally big

[upbeat fog]

I’m pretty sure it is just that big

[fathom hill]

i mean you would assume she must be spider like no?

though she just looks like a woman

[lilac hedge]

Some creature that picked up a big skull and decided it was time to charge at innocent pilgrims

[edgy nebula]

naturally big, it’s described as rare

[fathom hill]

eight limbs appear here except the metal leg

[edgy nebula]

their needolin dialogue mentions them crowned as ruler though, which is weird

[limpid summit]

Might be a king of the jungle type thing

[edgy nebula]

it’s pretty normal for bigger versions of normal enemies to have similarly refined dialogue if we look at savage beastfly tho

[lilac hedge]

We should be more scared of where the skulls tyrant skull comes from

[jaunty moon]

how does hornet know shroomese

[edgy nebula]

she’s old and knows languages

except for the skarr’s cause shes stupid

[jaunty moon]

how does she know the shroom

[fathom hill]

she may have learned back in hallownest

[edgy nebula]

mister mushroom is renowned as the master herald, she probably learned of him somewhere

[fathom hill]

apparently she knows the herald, or im guessing has talked with him before

[jaunty moon]

does hornet know about the deepnest maskmaker ?

[edgy nebula]

we don’t know

[fathom hill]

some have argued that shroom is not to be learned since the charm mechanic is kind of weird

maybe she bound a shroom once and now she knows idk

[edgy nebula]

She might, considering she knows of the mask maker’s powers

So i do think it’s likely

[lilac hedge]

Why does the mask makers lock in so hard after you remove their masks

[edgy nebula]

The masks put them in a trance so that their work is easier

[jaunty moon]

geeked vs locked in

[muted lantern]

Hey do we know how the green path vessel died? I always presumed hornet killed them, but iirc they are impaled on their own nail. Did it kill itself? Did hornet kill it with its own sword? Was it just killed by a regular nail wielding husk?

[lilac hedge]

Hornet killed that mf

[jaunty moon]

enviromental storytelling brochaco

[lone folio]

Hornet killed it and then stabbed it with its own nail

Pretty brutal

[jaunty moon]

how convinient that the fella that is being hunted down by hornet died in her boss arena

I wonder how that could have happened

[lone folio]

But killing your half siblings is not that bad

[jaunty moon]

idk bru

[lone folio]

I mean it's not hers is it?

[muted lantern]

The mask is like magic Adderall they are in a kinda trance super focused on their work. Taking the mask off breaks them out of it.

[lone folio]

It's just a cave no?

[jaunty moon]

I mean you are kinda lured in there

[arctic cliff]

Hi dudes

[lone folio]

I mean it's a pretty good spot to kill one in

Lots of space for her to use to dash around in

[muted lantern]

Considering that vessel looks like it's been dead a while I don't really know if that's super sound logic, it's just a room with a dead vessel that she leads us too, not even dead by her weapon. It definitely is most likely that she killed them, as her duty is to stop vessels, but it's not entirely explicit.

[lone folio]

I guess vessels are somewhat tough opponents considering the fact that she needs to lure one into a place where it's easier to kill

I spelled tough as tuff

I'm done it's over for me in so brain dead

[past cypress]

Vessels are basically half-higher beings infused with void so yeah they're tough as fuck

[lone folio]

I need sleep right now 😭

[lilac hedge]

Vessels are very weak atleast most of them, you fight no real vessel other than a vessel infected by radiance cuz they are either to weak or just skill issue

Only very very few vessels become strong

[muted lantern]

The only reason I can think of that she used its own weapon to kill it is that it somehow managed to disarm her.

[past cypress]

The Greenpath vessel was probably lured the same way the Knight was

[lone folio]

Well full higher beings and then void inside so like kind of higher beings but not

[arctic cliff]

Fun fact : Mooshka in Russian = foresight in English

[past cypress]

Oh true I forgot

Hornet is half but vessels are full mb

[rugged sigil]

mooksha = wyrm

[arctic cliff]

Yep

[lone folio]

I swear Hornet seems so weak in base hk

[lilac hedge]

Shes testing you not tryna kill you bruv, well maybe but you get what i mean

[sterile jacinth]

Compared to sk she is younger and more inexperienced

[fathom hill]

interesting phrasing hornet

[muted lantern]

I mean gp vessel might just be surprisingly competent. She's also holding back a lot in her first fight, so she might have been caught off guard

[arctic cliff]

Fine art 🔥

[lone folio]

Yeah

But like still

[fathom hill]

maybe she is immortal? or just different from the "mortal" bugs?

[lone folio]

Probably

[fathom hill]

Or at least she believes herself to be

[muted lantern]

Hornet really holds back in her initial fight,

[past cypress]

Can't wait for all the Sharpe aurafarming art to age badly when Sharpe turns out to be a fucking loser

[lilac hedge]

Hornet has like outlived almost everyone so shes pretty old

[lone folio]

I guess the greenpath vessel locked in

[sterile jacinth]

I hope he doesn’t turn out like Tiso

[lone folio]

He had "anger of the dead" equipped

[past cypress]

TBF the Greenpath vessel could dash already so they probably took a different route

[arctic cliff]

TC said what Sharpe is “nefarious”

[fathom hill]

god i hope not

[lone folio]

Oh yeah

[arctic cliff]

Probably not a loser

[fathom hill]

i mean i hold no hype for sharpe but damn i hope we dont get another tiso

[past cypress]

I wonder what exactly the Mothwing Cloak is though

[sterile jacinth]

Would love a vicious boss fight from him

[lone folio]

It also has dash from moth wing cloak... Moth wing cloak....... Hold upp where the he did he get that from

[arctic cliff]

And Hornet will fight for her live against him

[past cypress]

Maybe they went up from Ancient Basin and got to Resting Grounds?

[lone folio]

Maybe they found a dead moth like markoth and ripped off its wings??

Or cloak

[muted lantern]

It seems like she's barely aged ever since reaching maturity, enough that a towering Amazonian like Shakra could mistake her for a kid (though it's possible Shakra was just being patronizing as she compares her to a goddamn newborn) so presumably she's extraordinarily long lived or straight up doesn't age.

[lilac hedge]

Brother what

[sterile jacinth]

Could be a cloak blessed by the moth tribe

[past cypress]

Whereas the Knight seems to have left Hallownest from most likely Howling Cliffs before making its' way back there

I wonder how tf they got there

[lone folio]

Like found a corpse and then ripped the cloak off of it for some reason

[fathom hill]

i actually think shakra does believe she is a childd but she patronizes her as you would a child, calling them even more of a child so kind of both

[lone folio]

Maybe it wanted a replacement

[muted lantern]

I think it's just part of that vessel, like a unique mutation? Idk about the name tho, gp vessel seems to be pretty skilled

[fathom hill]

the thing is what do we take, is hornet immortal or is she just long lived

that dialogue has interesting phrasing that all

[past cypress]

Pale King died in his palace so it's long lived

[fathom hill]

Some believe it was suicide ig

or killed by void

[sterile jacinth]

From how you define mortal she could be both. If you define immortal as an inability to die than she is not since higher beings can die

[sterile jacinth]

I think his grief killed him. Suicide or not

[lone folio]

Oooo i can see some potential with this theory

[rugged sigil]

they mean unaging

[fathom hill]

immortal as in she will not die of age is my definition

[past cypress]

What about Broken Vessel / Lost Kin? They had a dash-like ability too

[sterile jacinth]

Than yes I believe she is

[past cypress]

I find it very very interesting that Lost Kin died right next to the Monarch Wings btw. Why? How?

[arctic cliff]

Cruel protagonist

Very cruel protagonist

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think memes are allowed

[arctic cliff]

Oh

Ok

I think wrong channel

[sterile jacinth]

But I do think she did it to lay him and his pain to rest.

[muted lantern]

Ye it really does come off that Shakra doesn't believe hornet when she says she's no child, but I think the barely hatched line is probably an exaggeration, unless hornet straight up is the size of a newborn in shakras tribe. Which isn't impossible, shakras people seem to be way larger than the average bug, and isolated enough that she might not realize that other bugs are just smaller. It is funny to think Shakra might believe all the pilgrims are just little kids. Though she never seems to comment on that, does hornet look younger than the pilgrims??

[sterile jacinth]

It’s only after he’s dead that Verdania is allowed to regrow

[fathom hill]

I have talked abt this before but i dont like this idea since huhhh

[upbeat fog]

I don’t know half the bugs in the game don’t look like bugs at all

[muted lantern]

Team cherry: killing gay people is good for the environment

[fathom hill]

Green prince asks her to leave and she says she will and doesnt

[lone folio]

Hmmmm

[past cypress]

Green Prince asked her to leave in Sinner's Road too

[edgy nebula]

hornet is a veryyy bad protagonist

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah that might be the player

[fathom hill]

which is ok player decision and we never get this justified, not like karmelita which we do get some semblance of justification

[past cypress]

GP was very clearly nihilistic and suicidal and wanted to rot away and starve to death multiple times

[edgy nebula]

terrible justification though

[sterile jacinth]

Ah great back to Hornet bad discussion :,)

[past cypress]

Hornet's interference allowed him to see Verdania once again and remember how his own home looked like before being out to rest

[edgy nebula]

“I did it for a challenge of strength soon to come” me when i lie

[fathom hill]

5 topics

[upbeat fog]

I don’t know about all that

[sterile jacinth]

That is true

[fathom hill]

spin. that. wheel

[past cypress]

It's not like Karmelita could've done anything

She was old weak and frail

[sterile jacinth]

She would have died either way. At least now she gets to die in combat reviving her glory days

[past cypress]

Truth nuke

[muted lantern]

So anyway, a question I have is does Shakra think like every bug in pharloom that's shorter than her is a child? Or does hornet look especially young by her peoples standards, shakra doesn't seem to comment on what would be to her a procession of unarmed children going to their deaths.

[past cypress]

Nyleth and Khann were dead already weren't they?

[fathom hill]

fair, hornet also doesnt say why she does this

[edgy nebula]

khann was possibly alive

[sterile jacinth]

I just assumed it was Hornet. Hornets shell obviously has some ageless properties

[fathom hill]

also she is kind of like really adverse to him for some reason, hornet really may not stand sulking guys lol

[sterile jacinth]

Not in any state that he’d want to be in. It must be shameful to be alive only by a technicality. Especially for a warrior like Kahnn

[upbeat fog]

Is Shakra actually a hornet I heard that somewhere

[fathom hill]

like even the justification she gives to the prince is like "fuck no i didnt do it for you, you were just in the way"

[edgy nebula]

no we have no clue what shakra is

[sterile jacinth]

She might be matching his nihilism

[fathom hill]

Hornet does mirror some npcs sometimes but idk

I could have the Lace argument but Lace is a totally different topic

since the circumstances are totally different

[edgy nebula]

yeah, definitely

all my homies love khann, best heart ever, only ruler with an actual army

[muted lantern]

I suppose so, maybe it's not about height then? Maybe it's that hornets shell looks so unblemished because of her healing factor (later commented by Shakra if you retry the duel) so Shakra assumes a warrior with what is essentially perfect and unblemished shell must be a child, as they look like someone freshly hatched? Idk, it's very odd

[sterile jacinth]

The other ones didn’t really need it lol. I guess karm has unified tribes but they’re more geurilla lol

[upbeat fog]

That could be because of her lack of socializing in hallownest

[fathom hill]

thats would be fun if true

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah. She seems to correct herself later and call you hornet wielding needle instead of child wielding needle lol

[past cypress]

Khann had like 30% of Pharloom at one point and then they redirected one (1) river and his entire kingdom fell it's actually crazy

[edgy nebula]

half of pharloom

[sterile jacinth]

I just thought she was phrasing it in a way he would emotionally understand

[edgy nebula]

i heavily doubt the river was just redirected aswell, i dont think karak would let that slide

[past cypress]

Was Colar Gorge really that big? It's mostly Sands of Karak, Blasted Steps and Bone Bottom that was part of it right?

[edgy nebula]

gms probably did something stupid

[fathom hill]

Id say she looks young by bug standards, i think elderbug describes her as youthful? or lively? or something

[sterile jacinth]

Well they’re dead now lol

[past cypress]

They definitely dried it out in some way

[fathom hill]

lemme check

[past cypress]

Whatever that way is Khann got low diffed

[upbeat fog]

Oh I have no idea I’m not even at that part of the game yet

[edgy nebula]

sands of karak, blasted steps, water likely flowed down into the wormways and spilled into what is now moss grotto, may have also controlled a bit of where the citadel once was

[sterile jacinth]

Where you meet gp? You might want to leave there’s a ton of spoilers here. Anyway that’s just how I read the conversation

[past cypress]

Oh true I forgot about Wormways

[muted lantern]

Honestly the killing karmelita conversation after already having three hearts is one of my bigger gripes with the story, she doesn't seem like someone at least nowadays that so willingly would waste a life of a sapient bug for practice. I think the issue could have easily been fixed by green prince just not giving a heart and making karms death always necessary.

[edgy nebula]

khann died a goat and aurafarms even in death unlike the other successors

[past cypress]

Karmelita literally consented

[upbeat fog]

When you first meet him in sinners road?

[past cypress]

Karmelita was an old frail woman rotting away and Hornet gave her a chance to relive former glory and she was like "Bet"

I hate this discussion cuz it's so obvious that both Karmelita and GP benefit from Hornet's interference

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah I’m not sure. I’m going to interpret it as Hornet allowing rebirth. The Skarr are practically dead anyway. This is a mercy killing

[muted lantern]

I don't remember that line like that, I always assumed it was more of a "so you're here to kill me? So be it" instead of a "please kill me" but I don't remember the line exactly, do you have the text on hand?

[past cypress]

No but also look at the sprite bruh

[muted lantern]

I don't think being old justifies murking someone lol

[sterile jacinth]

Her song did fail. Her tribe has fallen

[past cypress]

She isn't old she's on life support leaning on a wall looking down and half-rotten away already

[fathom hill]

i made this up i think i got confused with bretta or someone else talked abt hornet once

[muted lantern]

It seemed to be written as she was the last thing keeping the skarr going at all

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah for sure

[past cypress]

Pretty sure she couldn't've done anything in her current state

[sterile jacinth]

It’s more of a mercy killing than senseless murder

[past cypress]

Karmelita is just a normal bug she doesn't have the extreme lifespan needed to single handedly hold up the Skarr

[muted lantern]

idk, I'd have to reread the dialogue, but I don't remember karmelita really wanting to die?

[edgy nebula]

she accepts hornet's challenge but at the same time she doesnt have a choice

[upbeat fog]

Speaking of Skarrs what possibly could the reason be for jumping Hornet in the cellar with the vintage nectar be I mean the nectar can’t be that good

[sterile jacinth]

They’re ants. They like sugar

[muted lantern]

Its directly stated that her mere presence allowed the skarr more resistance to the haunting and gives life the region, and hornet describes to gilly that it's a pretty big loss for the region.

[unique canopy]

Ever had to deal with ants in real life?

[upbeat fog]

Fair

[muted lantern]

Yeah she seems pretty defiant here, honestly

[past cypress]

As for GP he's nihilistic and suicidal, if Hornet didn't interfere he'd starve to death in a cage over in Sinner's Road or starve to death in Verdania, this way he got to see his actual kingdom again and danced with his lover before dying

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah he’s too proud to do it himself

[past cypress]

She was cooked anyway she had like 3 minutes left

[muted lantern]

Idk, I think he might have had a chance to move on after mourning his lover, and I don't think we should mercy kill depressed people lol.

[past cypress]

Idk I read this as a pretty open accepting. She's even reminiscing on her old power (calling it "wild" and "proud")

[sterile jacinth]

Have you seen him??? Does that look like a guy you can trust being alone

[muted lantern]

I mean that's really not stated at all, she's faded definitely, but that doesn't really justify killing her for practice.

[fathom hill]

tbf he travels and stuff

also can we remember the other depressed guy we can kill

[sterile jacinth]

Not… really

[sterile jacinth]

That is true lol

[muted lantern]

I mean if we think someone's a risk to themselves I'd generally advise against killing them, plus it seems like he's grieving his lover, and just wanted to be left alone.

[unique canopy]

GP's post-fight dialogue seems to indicate that dying together is preferable. The Pinmaster expresses similar sentiments when you save him at his wife's grave.

[sterile jacinth]

Yea. I am not advocating for killing depressed people

[past cypress]

Grieving his lover that he can barely remember just like he can barely remember his home

[muted lantern]

I know I was joking

[sterile jacinth]

I think the guy would have withered away in the husk that is his kingdom

[muted lantern]

Ig, its not like hornet is a stranger to assisted suicide considering phantom, but the were more of terminally ill than depressed.

[fathom hill]

but she does spare the pintress for some reason

wait actually why does she spare the pintress?

[muted lantern]

Karm definitely didn't have long but I just don't think there was any reason to cut her life short if she was still willing to keep fighting.

[fathom hill]

i joke that she is weak to tragic women but like actually why

[unique canopy]

Hornet: Despite its quakes, Pharloom's demise is not as certain as it seems. I shall act to change that fate.
Hornet: If I succeed at my task, the land that remains will require the watch of strong bugs like you.

[upbeat fog]

I just don’t understand why would you want to die in the trash hole of sinners road when there is better places to die in Pharloom

[sterile jacinth]

I’m sorry but what can she do? She can barely get words out

[sterile jacinth]

It used to be his home

[muted lantern]

Hornet just likes her, which she says surprisingly candidly in the journeyand didn't see any reason to kill her. Similar to secsen

[muted lantern]

Again according to gilly her mere presence benefitted the region

[sterile jacinth]

Not for long. She isn’t long for this world

[upbeat fog]

Why Verdania is Sinner’s road

[sterile jacinth]

? It’s not

[muted lantern]

Honestly I wouldn't mind killing karmelita without a heart if hornets dialogue wasn't "oh I just needed practice" like if it was more in line with the mercy killing thing.

[sterile jacinth]

Yea idk :P
agreed

[muted lantern]

The dialogue with gilly if you kill her like that is the part I find egregious not the killing her in general

[sterile jacinth]

Jump starting regrowth I guess

[muted lantern]

But I'm generally not in favor of putting someone out of their misery if they don't want it. even if they are doomed.

[upbeat fog]

I asked why he wanted to die in sinner’s road and you said it used to be his home

[sterile jacinth]

Oh no I don’t think he wanted to die there

Not there specifically I just think he wanted to die

[muted lantern]

Sinners road he seems to just be hiding from the task of freeing his lover

[upbeat fog]

Oh I was confused for a second there

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah that’s true. He’s hiding from his pain and loss

[fathom hill]

apparently pintress may want to die due that the world is ending

giving the wish text and hornets deduction from it

[muted lantern]

Pinstress is so funny, she naps out in the snow like a winter dog breed

[fathom hill]

and then hornets goes and tells her the world will not end

[unique canopy]

Yeah she thinks the world will end, so she'd rather go out in one last duel to the death. Hornet spares her because she's fighting to make sure the world doesn't end, and Pinstress' talents will still be needed in the new post-GMS Pharloom.

[muted lantern]

This is straight up how we find pinstress lmao (the dog in the pic is fine btw)

[sterile jacinth]

Real

[fathom hill]

lmao yeah

[unique canopy]

Guessing husky

[sterile jacinth]

I imagine Hornet just suppressing an annoyed sigh seeing that

[muted lantern]

Some winter breeds of dog will just snooze through a blizzard

[fathom hill]

maybe a lil, "is she dead? sigh no she aint"

[muted lantern]

I guess pinstress is very cold resistant, I wonder if she has faydown packed into her cloak, or maybe she's just built different.

[silk dirge]

JUST FOUND PEAK https://daily.bandcamp.com/features/christopher-larkin-hollow-knight-silksong-interview

[fathom hill]

maybe also got the favour of the bird?

[silk dirge]

larkin interview

[fathom hill]

i mean we are up there no

[muted lantern]

The goat

Seamstress is probably jealous AF of fay down, does she comment on it?

[fathom hill]

she must have done the climb before

[sterile jacinth]

She clearly can

[muted lantern]

Pinstress might also just be a bug very used to harsh environments

[fathom hill]

hornets part of the order now ig

[fathom hill]

if she does its not on the wiki

that would have been a nice detail though

[upbeat fog]

If I remember correctly there is a 3rd pinstress that died in the putrified ducts and she made the wreath of purity to counter the Bilewater but died before being able to use it

[sterile jacinth]

Yea I think pinstress is just built different

[upbeat fog]

I’m just wondering what compels people to keep leaving in places like putrified ducts

[fathom hill]

that reminds me i gotta see the interview they did to the va of trobbio

john trobbiani guy

[muted lantern]

Honestly I hope we can see the pinstresses mend their relationship, like oro and mato in godhome. It would be nice to see pinstress hanging out in seamstresses hut and learning a new hobby

[sterile jacinth]

It didn’t used to be putrefied

[sterile jacinth]

Oooh dual fight that would be cool

[muted lantern]

It was probably nice once, like pale lake, but everything changed when the fire nation attacked

[upbeat fog]

There is something called walking away

[sterile jacinth]

There’s also something called “this is my only home and I need to get revenge on the fire nation”

[muted lantern]

Not easy to abandon your ancestral home, especially in such a hostile kingdom

[upbeat fog]

Well that worked out well for them

[fathom hill]

where can i find the needolin dialogue for the stilkin pintress?

[sterile jacinth]

I think you might be blaming the victims a little lol

[muted lantern]

Not like there was really a safe place to go, the whole kingdoms environment was touched by the citadel, the last growing places are incredibly dangerous and populated by territorial tribes

Plus if not for the haunting the stillkin were doing fairly well for themselves despite their contaminated environment.

They were pretty in tune with their surroundings, their survival depended on their familiarity with the environment.

[sterile jacinth]

They adapted. They’re doing the best with what they can

[upbeat fog]

Greymoor was right there

[sterile jacinth]

It’s not really their fault their leader is a power hungry murderer

[sterile jacinth]

The dead farm populated by haunted citadel workers? It’s not preferable

[muted lantern]

Greymoor, you mean the place already populated by religious fanatics enslaved by the citadel and it's military, where anyone who didn't work enough got hunted down by specially trained moorwings?

[unique canopy]

"Must we hide?
Dear sisters...
Revered by all...
Feared by all..."

[sterile jacinth]

And the craw. I don’t think they’d take too kindly to their home being invaded

Don’t mention far fields they’d get destroyed by the Skarr

[random aspen]

just live in moss grotto

[upbeat fog]

You have better chances there than bilewater

[fathom hill]

oh so lots of nothing ig

[lone folio]

Even then the chapel maids chapel is in ruins

[edgy nebula]

why didnt they go to moss grotto

[sinful nimbus]

Why does he have beef with Weird AI? Can he not appreciate the extreme compositional and technical skill that went into Hardware Store?

[muted lantern]

Yeah this is like saying man your home country is being destroyed by corporations? Better move to north korea

[fathom hill]

she must have hid with the stilkin and giving how her home seems ransacked

[sterile jacinth]

Yea exactly. It’s their home. Don’t blame them for wanting to defend it

[fathom hill]

maybe the stilkin didnt like it

[muted lantern]

Again, the stillkin were doing pretty well for themselves, very in tune with their surroundings and survived just find untill the haunting

[random aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-looking-up-monkey-bbc-america-bbc-america-monkey-bbc-america-monkey-rising-gaze-gif-5305200365448378989

[muted lantern]

Also greymoor is literally ruled by the stillkins sworn enemy

[sinful nimbus]

Why'd he shill this band dude https://enigmamusic.bandcamp.com/album/seven-lives-many-faces

[lone folio]

Their home is a dumping ground for sewage water

[sterile jacinth]

Yea exactly. They don’t have the power to directly challenge the citadel or they would have done so already

[lone folio]

Before this they were doing fine

[sterile jacinth]

The ones that couldn’t adapt are dead

[muted lantern]

Its better than trying to move into the land of the colonial force who they are sworn enemies of, like how do we expect that to end? The stillkins combat capabilities rely on their home environment

[sterile jacinth]

They fight using traps and ambushes. They cannot encroach onto enemy territory they’re gonna get wiped off the face of the earth

[random aspen]

me when im stupid bilestress and decide to live in stupid bilewater

[upbeat fog]

All I’m saying a city is better to survive than a swamp

[lone folio]

Oh I didn't read the context to your message I just thought you were saying that bilewater was always a disgusting place

[muted lantern]

Not when the city actively wants you dead or enslaved lol

[lone folio]

Woops

[sterile jacinth]

A swamp was their home. The city is filled with their enemies

[random aspen]

this idiot decided to live in putrified ducts RIGHT next to the citadel

[timber pond]

He making Peak right now.

[sinful nimbus]

Moonlighter 2 😍

[timber pond]

bro ignores highlights. also Early access? se you in 2 years lmao

[upbeat fog]

I started this with the putrified ducts

[sterile jacinth]

Ducts also used to be clean. It was putrified by the citadel

[lone folio]

I mean where else does she have really

[random aspen]

anywhere else

[lone folio]

Moss Grotto is probably the only good place

[upbeat fog]

I’m saying why would you stay in the ducts

[random aspen]

idk the timeline but if she could she couldve just lived in sand of karak

[sterile jacinth]

Cause it used to be their home

[unique canopy]

With the exception of the one wardenfly who took a wrong turn at Albuquerque, the Citadel doesn't really have any presence in the ducts themselves. They just toss their sewage there and ignore it.

[sterile jacinth]

Are you talking about pinstress? I don’t know

It’s hidden

[lone folio]

I feel like the pinstresses live in those places so they are as spread out as possible

[random aspen]

tbh why didnt they just leave pharlom

ignoring gameplay and whatnot

[sterile jacinth]

Ain’t much to see outside of the kingdoms

[lone folio]

So living there so close to her sister would be bad, and there's also so many sharp things there to pop the balloon home it just doesn't seem that great

[sterile jacinth]

I also think the stilkin need/prefer a swamp environment to live in

Not one like how it is now but bilewater probably used to be a healthy swamp

[upbeat fog]

They can abandon their home if they need to

[sterile jacinth]

They’ve adapted instead

[upbeat fog]

I’m pretty sure they are all dead except for the Huntstress and that one Flea Warrior

[sterile jacinth]

If some have we haven’t seen them (for obvious reasons)
I think you’re blaming the victims just a little, this is their home and they shouldn’t have had to leave

[sterile jacinth]

Aah you mean ducts? Yea that might have gotten too bad to live in for them anymore

The stilkin I mean

[random aspen]

stilkin can probably be versatile on where they liev they just adapted

cus pinstresses are hinted to be the same species and theyre living fine outside sewer water

[upbeat fog]

I said the ducts

[sterile jacinth]

Woops I thought you meant bilewater as a whole

[dawn sluice]

JUST FOUND LACE

even after they got lost

[upbeat fog]

Another question is where the muck maggots come from

[sterile jacinth]

They’re bred from the muckroaches

[dawn sluice]

straight from hell

[sterile jacinth]

They’re just younger muckroaches

Same with the slubbergrubs

[dawn sluice]

now we have 3 (or 4) muckroach family members

[sterile jacinth]

4. Bloatroaches count as well

[upbeat fog]

Why were they breeding those hell spawn

[lone folio]

They were probably some kind of species that wasn't thriving but reproduced very fast if it had sufficient food nearby, then the citadel found them and decided that they are perfect to breed and use for food and they can feed that massive population with all of their junk that they throw into bilewater

[dawn sluice]

bloatroach technically counts but is moreso an offshoot than a true adult

[sterile jacinth]

Food

[dawn sluice]

bug evolution is weird in hk

[lone folio]

Since I think that they are some sort of scavangers that eat anything they find

They remind me of some sort of hyena

[sterile jacinth]

Hyena if they were livestock

[lone folio]

Yeah

[dawn sluice]

do you guys think shadow creepers have a low reproduction rate due to living long and eating nothing

[upbeat fog]

Muck roach Is definitely top 10 worst enemies

[sterile jacinth]

They might spawn from the stone we don’t know. They’re pretty mysterious

[sterile jacinth]

Spit squits my beloathed

[unique canopy]

The fact that they straight up feed on silk intrigues me as more than just a gameplay mechanic. Were they intentionally bred that way or did they evolve that way simply because silk waste was the most abundant food source? Especially since Greymoor shows they're trying to recycle all the dregs they can.

[dawn sluice]

they arent that bad

[upbeat fog]

My joke theory is they are a bug made by void like how the radiance made moths

[dawn sluice]

if only void wasnt stupid (until the knight came along)

[sterile jacinth]

They seem to stop silk through making Hornet really uncomfortable. I don’t think it’s necessarily the silk

[sterile jacinth]

Literally the worst enemy imo

[upbeat fog]

That is top 1

[dawn sluice]

i hate the gargant gloom more

[sterile jacinth]

True but there are only 2 of those bitches

[lone folio]

Spit squit is the worst thing ever

It moves away and fires three globs

[dawn sluice]

yknow how did shadow creepers get infected
they dont HAVE any base instincts

[lone folio]

It's the primal aspid of this game if the primal aspid invested in agility more

[dawn sluice]

atleast not until they grow up

[sterile jacinth]

Aspids aren’t too bad if you’re only fighting one

[frigid belfry]

plasmified zango

[lone folio]

I guess they got the physical infection?

[dawn sluice]

though its pretty funny when they get caught by the tongue things and eaten

[sterile jacinth]

Spit squits

[lone folio]

Summoned saviour

[upbeat fog]

Counter argument: there is almost never one

[sterile jacinth]

Only saving grace

[dawn sluice]

not very saving or graceful for them

it is for us though

[lone folio]

Those things also catch me when I'm getting attack by one

And especially when I'm running away from the big dude

[dawn sluice]

you've heard of spit squit, or swamp squit
how about armored spit swamp squit

in the colosseum of actual idiots

[lone folio]

Voidified armored spit swamp squit

Plasmified voided armored spit squit

[unique canopy]

And they spit lava instead

[lone folio]

Pale plasmified voided armored spit squit

Ancient pale plasmified voided armored spit squit 🔥 🔥

[dawn sluice]

absolute ancient pale plasmified black-threaded armored spit swamp squit

[lone folio]

We are getting there

[frigid belfry]

nice try satan

[lone folio]

Absolute ancient nightmare king pale plasmified black threaded armored spit swamp squit

[lone folio]

Oh and you know what it shoots 3 drills instead

[simple hedge]

Lost?

[dawn sluice]

invincible fearless sensual mysterious enchanting vigorous diligent overwhelming gorgeous passionate terrifying beautiful pure powerful grey ancient absolute nightmare king pale plasmified black-threaded armored enraged primal spit swamp squit

[frigid belfry]

team cherry please dont hire this dude

[lone folio]

Oh yeah those also

[lone folio]

Please hire me and @dawn sluice

We are absolutely amazing individuals

[dawn sluice]

it shoots nine zotelings in waves of 3 and deals 5 masks of damage along with being incredibly fast, having all the void attacks, healing itself, and charging at you
also it explodes when it dies

[frigid belfry]

this truly was our song🫰

[dawn sluice]

our sil ksong

[frigid belfry]

the knight is silk

[dawn sluice]

anyway how does this have anything to do with lore

now that i think about it this is just ss-discussion-3

[lone folio]

Hell yeah

[frigid belfry]

occasionally someone will come in here with a horrendous lore take, then the discussion spirals into why "hornets feet are actually their own pale beings"

something like that

[upbeat fog]

What the hell

[dreamy onyx]

that's crazy bonkers

did you guys know that Grand Mother Silk is actually Roman

[frigid belfry]

its kind of accurate

[frigid belfry]

see?

[dreamy onyx]

okay wait wait hear me out

Britain based a lot of its systems and even language (back in the day) off of Rome

if the Citadel and Weavers are British, that would make GMS Roman

I'm only like half joking because I do think it's a cool parallel

[dawn sluice]

imagine basing your systems that are designed to screw over a god on that god's systems

its extra insult to injury

[timber pond]

Whats the hallownest parralel , Babylon? lol

[dreamy onyx]

I don't think Hallownest would be relevant tbf

[timber pond]

Just saying for fun

[dreamy onyx]

honestly I have no clue lol

[upbeat fog]

Here is a question which is worst the infection or the haunting

[mighty swallow]

infection

[dreamy onyx]

Haunting

[visual glacier]

Infection

[dreamy onyx]

because you still have to work 💔

[timber pond]

What lore Additions do you guys think they would add if they do in fact, create Silk Soul Mode? If we think of it like "silksong side B"

[mighty swallow]

haunting is kindof like brainwashing, but can be reversed if gms gets defeated

[dreamy onyx]

at least with the Infection you get to be free

if you're haunted you just keep working 💔

[timber pond]

Haunting might be worse because its possible they are still "conscious" when they are possesed by strings.

[visual glacier]

Not as far as we know

[mighty swallow]

infection is permanent and permanently destroys your brain. howver, you do get increased power, which is why the traitr lord betreyed

[visual glacier]

Only thing pointing to that slightly is the marrow lore tablet

[upbeat fog]

I think the infection

[dreamy onyx]

true, and now that the citadel has basically been destroyed it means the bugs don't have to keep working their ass off

[timber pond]

Pavo says His thoguhts are mixed with anothers, so its like you are in a Schistophrenic nightmare where you go about your day.

its probably something like the game PT

[visual glacier]

It’s like a hive mind a little bit

[timber pond]

Well, not as much as the other ones.

Its more of a "deception"

[visual glacier]

But the infection actually mutates your. Ody

[timber pond]

Sure im not saying the infection isnt bad.

But with the infection, at least you are in a dream. from their perception, alot of infected bugs seem to be "feeling good" at least

[mighty swallow]

ya da infection is worse i think

ya but its permanent

haunting can be potentially reversed

[dreamy onyx]

They can't feel but that's also probably better than just constantly doing your job

[timber pond]

while the haunting is like "what if you lived your shitty 9-5, but you were also A shitzophrenic psychopath like pyro from TF2"

[dreamy onyx]

And you never stopped

[mighty swallow]

they high😭

[timber pond]

Depends on howw much silk is in you

[mighty swallow]

ya

not like the whiteward dudes

[timber pond]

also infection MIGHT be able to be reversed if you were still alive when infected

[mighty swallow]

but like a random pilgrim

[mighty swallow]

i dunno. at the very least, ur body would be mutated

[timber pond]

Depends on how hard you resist it probably

[upbeat fog]

You really don’t like work

[timber pond]

but IDK, that marrow tablet and the pilgrim dissecting people leads me to Belive the haunting is actively Painful too

[dreamy onyx]

I mean if I was literally shovelling hot coals or scrubbing dirty gears while huffing in smog until my body couldn't then no I wouldn't like work LMAO

[timber pond]

Anyway. what diffrences do you think they would add to Silk Soul mode if they still wanted to make it

[upbeat fog]

The thing is it is way harder to stop the infection than the haunting

[mighty swallow]

ya

[frigid belfry]

im incredibly convinced a full coral gorge will be dlc

im very satisfied with blasted steps/sands of karak, it was better than CG for the atmosphere and storytelling, but i feel the coral gorge in its perfection should exist as a memory

there is literally a fully mapped out, coded coral gorge in earlier files of the game

[fathom hill]

\

[grand star]

did you guys know that it's called the sinner's road because the sinners who are afraid of being judged in the blasted steps take it

[rugged sigil]

ye

[dawn sluice]

did you know it’s called shell wood because there’s shellwood

[unreal estuary]

no way

[dawn sluice]

yes way

[timber pond]

Depends really.

This section is bassicaly blasted steps

THis is stuff thats not used + volt Vyrm nest

Also alot of details here have changed since the great reworkening of 2022

[edgy nebula]

always bet on coral gorge

[edgy nebula]

did you know that the blasted steps is called blasted steps because the pilgrims hate those blasted steps!

[lone valve]

I know this has been discussed many times, but does Hornet even have void at all? Because when you die, respawn and collect your silk again, there’s a dark silhouette of Hornet before dripping away

[limpid summit]

No she doesn’t

That’s non canon and idk maybe it symbolizes regrets or something but it ain’t void

Unforch

[lone valve]

Unforch?

Unfortunately?

[limpid summit]

Unforch dude

[lone valve]

What does that mean

Sorry am I being stupid

[limpid summit]

Nah nah

Forch

[sinful nimbus]

That doesn't look like void

It doesn't "drip" it falls down like powder and that's what it sounds like too

Its probably her decomposing corpse or something idk

[edgy nebula]

big fan of how much culture they gave karak with just two lore tablets

[dawn sluice]

its like

team cherry added it in at the last minute because they thought it was cool

[grand star]

did you guys know that it's called the sinner's road because the sinners who are afraid of being judged in the blasted steps take it

[edgy nebula]

they probably did but i do genuinely like the addition

karak wouldve been twice as boring because those two lore tablets are like, half the actual lore we have

[river geyser]

Couldn’tve hornet just like done the bindy thing on lace or phantom? Not sure how it works but it seemed to work on all silky creatures
Ik hornet didn’t really want to kill either of them that seriously but would it’ve worked if she had?

[limpid summit]

Could she have bound them?

I mean probably

But she worries that binding Eva might overwrite her identity

And binding GMS actually does

Lace and Phantom are probably weaker but it makes sense why she chose not to

[sinful nimbus]

Binding your enemies alive is so tuff

There's a reason GMS Widow and First Sinner are the coolest bosses

[limpid summit]

Who invited GMS

[spark valve]

that's not why it's called that sinner's road isn't an alternate path for pilgrims there's no entrance to the citadel that way that anyone could access

[sinful nimbus]

The GMS bind sequence is unbelievably cool

Weaver queen kinda goated if they didn't execute it in a way where checks notes Hornet's inherited evil genes activate.

[craggy smelt]

not sure how 'alive' First Sinner is, but yes
I think her fight might be an example of what Hornet alludes to if you refuse to bind Eva
i.e. binding might be dangerous to her mind, sort of thing

[nocturne thistle]

why is her skull like phantom?

[craggy smelt]

doing some fraying ig

unraveling

for some reason I don't know why

[nocturne thistle]

this is her skull alright

[craggy smelt]

her noggin certainly

might not have actual bones

just all threads in there

[nocturne thistle]

she is a pale being and a pale king's husk was there for a long time

[dreamy onyx]

Because phantom is her kid lol

[dreamy onyx]

Yeah but he didn't have bones either. he had an exoskeleton

[nocturne thistle]

but phantom head is like that cuz of unstable power

[dreamy onyx]

And his exoskeleton was crumbling for quite a while to have all the snow in kingdoms edge

[craggy smelt]

yea but 'pale being' covers a pretty wide range of creatures turns out
Wyrm was an armored beast, Root is a plant creature, Silk's whole thing is being made of silk turns out

-# Rad was made of light

[nocturne thistle]

i am just theorizing that GMS power is ALSO unstable

[craggy smelt]

i think Phantom is fraying because she's unstable
i think Silk is fraying because she's being sucked up by Hornet

[sinful nimbus]

She's described as frayed before that tbf

Not really sure why

[craggy smelt]

oh, Mask Maker

maybe more metaphorical

like 'this bitch is unhinged'

maybe referring to how things used to be less terrible in the past, before the binding and the haunting

she certainly doesn't look frayed like Phantom is until she starts literally unraveling

[feral inlet]

Guys how is lace alive at end btw

Like with gms gone I kinda expected her to unravel, I assume she’d prob need to find her own physical silk to heal herself now?

[craggy smelt]

probably, yeah

she doesn't seem to need to be constantly maintained, so she won't immediately vanish, but she does require silk to sustain herself

[lethal burrow]

there should be enough silk in the kingdom to last her a while, hopefully

[atomic widget]

Whats stopping her from going to some sort of mechanist and creating a silk heart tailored to her?

[lethal burrow]

What would a mechanical silk heart even be or do

[craggy smelt]

something like weavelight maybe

[atomic widget]

Or something similar

[craggy smelt]

though it might just not be enough for her, Hornet suggests a lot of silk would be needed

if it was something the Weavers could do, it was probably something the Citadel could do
and going by Phantom, they didn't do it

[atomic widget]

I mean this world is pretty fantastical there has to be something

[craggy smelt]

if only there was some character who could produce silk, and had some incentive to want Lace to survive...

[random aspen]

eva: yooo

eva: yooo i can generate silk yoo

guys its implied lace lives with hornet after silksong

[feral inlet]

Hopefully yea

[random aspen]

and hornet has enough silk

[feral inlet]

Assuming hornet doesn’t leave her there alone

[atomic widget]

How does hornet even give her silk. Does she just stab her needle in her chest and just imbue her with silk

[feral inlet]

Well I assume she can do something similar to the first cutscene

Just spawn it out of her and wrap it around something?

[random aspen]

whatever gms does to lace ig

[feral inlet]

I loved seeing this

I can’t wait to see which title screens dlc gives

[muted lantern]

I mean they are related

[feral inlet]

Phantom and lace were made by gms so gms prob took features from herself of sorts

[random aspen]

why would hornet do allat saving her and shit then just let her die bro

[muted lantern]

probably both silk kids look similar to gms when their silk is unraveled

[random aspen]

like atp just kill lost lace and leave

[atomic widget]

Had enough of her shi

[feral inlet]

To be fair I think lace should be fine left alone too, she is one of the stronger beings alive in pharloom

[random aspen]

no gms = she dies

[feral inlet]

Nahh, she can prob still fight

[random aspen]

hornet has no reason to just not help her

[feral inlet]

Like who’s left alive besides pinstress which could kill her

Hornet done killed everyone else of strength

[random aspen]

no shee would decay