sk-lore

[edgy nebula]

if the masters turn out to be void beings or spit void or some shit it's so over

[barren beacon]

is it because they are scared of it or sum?

[stone herald]

i have enough faith in TC that im not really worried about what they do with the steel city

[foggy fractal]

doesn't read scared to me

[barren beacon]

It'll be PRETTY Lame and boring if The Masters were just, stronger than Void Given Focus

[vestal swan]

Oh no he's reading filenames..
WAIT HE SAID THEYRE NOT CANON

[stone herald]

in terms of writing silksong didnt hit the same high as HK but it was still very good and engaging

[limpid summit]

Why does Hornet say that the void tendrils “choose” a barbed form anyway

Is that just a figure of speech to say that’s what they look like

[edgy nebula]

yes

[limpid summit]

Hor “We do not choose our mothers” Net strikes again

[vestal swan]

Probably religious or ancient knowledge reasons
"Don't mess with the Eldritch goo man"

[stone herald]

the void is really really dangerous if you dont do it right

oh shit the silksong abyss ambience is the vessel leitmotif????

[vestal swan]

Nope we gotta throw this guy in the volcano, he thinks GPK is AC

[stone herald]

gray prince kote is the Aale Cing

[edgy nebula]

what is gpk and ac

[vestal swan]

Green path kaiju

Ancient civ

[edgy nebula]

i cant believe green prince kibble is air conditioning

[limpid summit]

That’s yk believable

[stone herald]

what

[limpid summit]

I think the video is nice but the meat of it depends on assuming every AC member was an HB

[edgy nebula]

nah thassa lil stupid

[limpid summit]

Which sort of defeats the purpose of HBs

[fast lagoon]

wdym? grey prince knight is animal crossing

[stone herald]

where does he say that

[barren beacon]

Wtf does that mean

[edgy barn]

[silk dirge]

yeah its a wild theory but it's def got shit going for it

[edgy nebula]

they likely werent though, the nailsmith didnt seem like a hb at all

[vague whale]

this guy doesn't know about the greenpath kaiju

[vestal swan]

He lumps the imgs together when talking about the AC members

[barren beacon]

Please tell me 😭

[stone herald]

oh like the pcitures where he puts them all over the abys

[edgy barn]

you mean the kingdom's edge smith?

[edgy nebula]

yeah, it has ancient civ floors iirc

[stone herald]

there was the crystal peak mining machine in that too, they were just using HK sprites as a visualiser

[vestal swan]

Giant old corpse in Green path just to the side of queens gardens iirc@barren beacon

[barren beacon]

Show

[limpid summit]

He thinks the void killed PK 💔

[barren beacon]

Rookie Mistake

[limpid summit]

It’s ok it’s a good informative video

[vestal swan]

So close...

[fast lagoon]

not as bad as matpat 🙏

[vestal swan]

Nobody else is that bad

[fast lagoon]

guys hornet is actually grand mother silks mother
why? because she can use silk

[stone herald]

is that not the common take?

[limpid summit]

I think even if like you’re not super well versed in HK lore and understand the lack of fulfillment in a void death compared to fading away, plus the fact that the Kingsmoulds deactivated after his death you can still assume he didn’t die to void because of the one surefire sign (the eyes)

No most people think he let himself die out of sadness and regret

[vestal swan]

It's impossible

[stone herald]

hmm okay

i dont know i got the sense that most people thought it was void that did it

[limpid summit]

It’s hard to argue he died of void because he was notably bright and doesn’t have the void corpse eyes among other stuff

[edgy barn]

I don't see it

[barren beacon]

Well of course. Herrah wanted a kid with the Pale King to try and free her homeland from GMS, she needed a heir both weaver and pale being to match her, this is why hornet was made
It's even more obvious due to the Weaver Queen ending, with hornet beginning to resemble GMS a lot more. It's common sense

[fast lagoon]

still can’t get over the fact that matpat failed to see the 2 cutscenes where the knight and PK are in the same room

[silk dirge]

also im not posting it here bc idk if its the most relevant to this channel but have you all seen the lauren koopowitz interview

[barren beacon]

It was a ghost bro

[fast lagoon]

also where you just find his corpse

[barren beacon]

It was his past incarnation bro

[foggy fractal]

nope

[limpid summit]

No wait I forgot all about that what did we learn

[fast lagoon]

in pop cutscene only, in the abyss it’s a flashback and in WP it’s his corpse WHY AM I FALLING FOR THE RAGEBAIT

[vague whale]

matpat was kinda just terrible lol

[silk dirge]

not much lore stuff but cool behind the scenes shit

according to her team cherry told her the lines for specific characters but for others she chose herself

[limpid summit]

Aw tuff

[silk dirge]

for example "poshanka" was chosen by team cherry

[limpid summit]

I’m glad they branched out with VAs I love their voices but guest stars like Matt and Lauren did amazing

[silk dirge]

but other characters she did completely by herself

also she knows who concernedape voices but she doesnt say lol

ive never played stardew valley i just think its really cool they got another big indie dev to va

[vague whale]

Conductor Mizello's surgery

[toxic quest]

😭😭😭😭😭

[manic pewter]

We were discussing the other day whether there was confirmation that the fleas we find are actually baby fleas and nobody was sure

Vog says this

[fast lagoon]

yeah that seems like undeniable evidence

they prob learn to speak eventually

hence why the little ones just bark

[silk dirge]

whats up with big flea then

just a fat baby?

[fast lagoon]

yeah

[trail wasp]

Look at the big baby

[fast lagoon]

or he just like failed to mature cuz his voice is a lot deeper too so he could be older

[vestal swan]

Aside from like 2 big moments that was actually a good lore video wtf

[limpid summit]

Yeah ik right

Small creators are the way

[vestal swan]

I hope the Masters aren't super lame and void tied, because every time something comes up that links to them it seems like it's getting closer to that

[limpid summit]

What is this suppose to represent

Ik Flealia is the mother flea

Is she sitting in a chair like baby yoda

[silk dirge]

im all for burnt croissant lore

[vestal swan]

Ig, or maybe that's supposed to be an even smaller baby flea

[fast lagoon]

flea hatching from something

but that’s no egg

[limpid summit]

I completely forgot these furry dudes probably do hatch from eggs

[vestal swan]

What

[fast lagoon]

tool is called egg of flealia tho right

[limpid summit]

Hm

[silk dirge]

shadow creepers

[limpid summit]

It does sort of look like a faberge egg doesn’t it

[vestal swan]

I thought you meant lost lace lol

[limpid summit]

Well we know they’re different like void heart

[fast lagoon]

lost lace is my favorite croissant

[vestal swan]

Yeah I don't like the take on Shadow creepers, but I also don't like how they're seemingly just immune to the void? I don't like the abyss creatures anymore they don't make sense

[limpid summit]

And they don’t want vassals messing with it but that could just be because it’s just for them

Like I would genuinely have no problem with a void and steel connection if not for act 3

It makes more sense for them to save void for Sharpe

[vestal swan]

I just don't want it to be a lame connection like there's a second void heart

[rugged storm]

imagine if the egg made awoo sounds like the twisted bud when hovering over it

[fast lagoon]

i’m so curious now send me the video

[limpid summit]

The masters also have unified their local Abyss and TK has to fight them

Here

[fast lagoon]

smol channel

[vestal swan]

The steel city potentially being just as ancient as the ancients civ and being the reason they fell and basically the enforcers of people who fuck with the void does make sense and would be good Imo, but they also just kind of seem like crazy dictator's

[limpid summit]

Shadow creepers I can get behind cause they’re just like the tardigrades of the HK world

Hardy little dudes that survive anywhere

[foggy fractal]

city of steel dlc or never explored, call it !

[limpid summit]

The glooms I don’t like

From a gameplay perspective it was really fun to see familiar shadow creepers and then these scary fucking new guys

But lorewise like what are they

[silk dirge]

abyss dinosaur

[limpid summit]

The little dudes look like half a bug then the big ones are just bigger little dudes

Super well designed though

[vestal swan]

Glooms would be fine if they weren't void tied, like how the fuck is the dinosaur full of it, the little ones just eating their food hole would be fine too

You can have a terrifying Eldritch monster living next to another terrifying Eldritch monster

But now they eat each other?

[limpid summit]

Spending time around a fully armored void construct gave LKB acute poisoning but these dudes can just live it up with black mold inside them

[vestal swan]

Not armored

[silk dirge]

evolution baby

[rugged storm]

the bugs in silksong are super adaptive

[limpid summit]

I’d believe that

[rugged storm]

bilewater and deepdocks

[limpid summit]

You can adapt to hostile environments by not eating much if at all

You can’t just put bombs inside you and live like thst

[vague whale]

Loading screen tip

[rugged storm]

like this guy

the mosquitos too

[charred nimbus]

Not to mention the guy who has VOID inside of him

[rugged storm]

they were probably these originally

[rugged storm]

I'm using the lava slug as evidence to why the void guy can exist

bugs in pharloom are adaptive

[charred nimbus]

Oh, alright, i just got here LMao

[rugged storm]

makes sense

[edgy nebula]

must be misremembering

[rugged storm]

the spit squits description says it drank the water, and it makes sense

[edgy nebula]

their torsos not being the same pisses me off

[rugged storm]

yeah

maybe it shows mutation

[edgy nebula]

also less legs, wish they kept the 6

[rugged storm]

what if phantom just stole a squit mask and used that

she would run out of the exhaust organ and become a stiltkin

[silk dirge]

they probably arent the same exact species of mosquito

the proboscis is different also

[sterile jacinth]

Started playing hk and recognized the similarities immediately

[silk dirge]

i think they squits are like a mosquito family with different species in it

[rugged storm]

probably

[silk dirge]

bc swamp squits and spit squits i think are the same species in different areas

where hk squits are probably a different related species

[rugged storm]

I think they were probably more blue and slender originally, but had to adapt to bilewater and had intense changes

[vestal swan]

Evolution is a confirmed concept in this universe, this would just be divergence

[silk dirge]

having an entomologist(i think thats what theyre called) analyze hk and silksong would be cool

im loving all the various analysis videos going around

the geology analysis video was good

[vestal swan]

They would ask why everything is two legged and walk away crying

[charred nimbus]

except the geology one, wich other one there is?

[sterile jacinth]

Someone tell them about the higher beings giving bugs sentience

[silk dirge]

theres a lot of good music analysis

[vestal swan]

That only happens with one as far as we know

[edgy nebula]

"why do the mantis youth fly!" as they roll around ina puddle of tears

[silk dirge]

it would be really interesting if we got like a theologist analyzing the religion of pharloom

[charred nimbus]

this would be peak

[vestal swan]

They would similarly walk away crying, do you realize how fucked up the timeline is, we can't even blame certain things on anybody yet

[vague whale]

And then we show them Pious Isamor once they think they understand it

[sterile jacinth]

Especially since a lot of the religion was or is centered around an actual god

[charred nimbus]

I started watching Dani Vasc when he started making Hollow knight videos, but for Silksong i only watched his Cogwork dancers video, pretty good

[sterile jacinth]

Religious history can be equally vague lol

[silk dirge]

call me up in like 3 years and i can make a video analyzing the robotics engineering of pharloom

[vague whale]

please tell me how Second Sentinel survives so much gear loss

[charred nimbus]

Please learn from Team cherry how to implant human souls into robots in real life

[sterile jacinth]

Yes extract their soul so we can give it to rich people so they live longer

[silk dirge]

ok yeah that i cant answer lmao

[sterile jacinth]

Particle effects

To make it look good to the player

[vague whale]

that's Doylist. I want a Watsonian explanation

[charred nimbus]

We want logical conclusions, i wanna know if Second Sentinel has gear regeneration canonically

No design excuse

[silk dirge]

i feel like she might have like silk belts between broken gears or some shit

maybe she has a lot of redundancy

[sterile jacinth]

You can theorize but I do think it’s mostly just for the players

Like not something that’s meant to be overanalyzed

But by all means go ahead I won’t stop you haha

[charred nimbus]

I agree with you, I was mostly joking lmao

We all know Second sentinel is actually murdering every single robot in the citadel to steal their organs

[sterile jacinth]

Trueeee

There’s a smaller robot actively repairing them

[edgy nebula]

i wonder why the snail shaman was bound to his mound while the ss shamans arent

[limpid summit]

Maybe PK made treaties with the shamans

And he doesn’t know PK is dead

He doesn’t know his own family is dead

[dusk harness]

I wonder if maybe the shaman just really loves his ancestors

[vestal swan]

Since we have no way to track them and nothing else really makes sense, I'm going to just say he got his dumb ass cursed

[limpid summit]

Yeah that’s also valid

Curses now exist

[edgy nebula]

greyroot cursed his ass

[dusk harness]

Why leave the ancestral mound really his papa and his grandpapa before him spent years cultivating this mound

[vestal swan]

Wrong country

[dusk harness]

Someone has to feed the Baldur don’t they

Fill the soul containers keep the lamps lit

What if someone came through wanting a shaman and he was out that would not do no siree

So just stay in the mound

[dusk harness]

Wild how what we know of the Hallownest shamans is:
Dead, overgrown by plants
Dead, trapped in crystal
Dead, corpse chained in Soul Sanctum
Alive, chilling in Ancestral Mound
Dead, buried in resting grounds

And maybe Jiji is a snail shaman considering how snail-like Jiji is not sure

Like if you showed me a picture of Jiji and said “what bug is this” I would absolutely say snail

[silk dirge]

jiji is a vassal

probably of jinn

[limpid summit]

Jiji is maybe the same species as Sula

Visually they look sort of like pillbugs

[dusk harness]

And they’re both absolutely adorable

[vestal swan]

Their limbs are vastly different, Sula visually looks like hermit crab

Jiji a roach

[dusk harness]

I can’t get over how cute they both are

[vestal swan]

Cute?????

[dusk harness]

Jiji let me give you a mountain of rancid eggs if you want em you got em

[dusk harness]

I mean Sula is a certified Best Boi too

They’re really quite appealing to me

[limpid summit]

Sula is cute

[lethal burrow]

idk that sort of runs into the problem of tying everything to everything else and making the world seem a lot smaller

[vestal swan]

Steel city being responsible for a global crash out isn't small world

[silk dirge]

most important piece of cut content

https://youtu.be/AeUoRXTGCYo?si=0pEY-xhNOos2Thlt

this probably just got replaced by the 3 fountains

[lavish stirrup]

Quick question from act 3, if we can confirm the possible endings of hk from the end of act 3, does that mean the hollow knight might still be alive and roaming around hallownest?

[foggy fractal]

maybe, maybe not

[magic isle]

would anyone like to discuss skong lore in dms?

(just dont want to take away from others covos

[molten python]

Might be alive? Yes. But it's the same as before Silksong released, we did not get any additional information on THK.

[molten python]

This is the best place to have lore convos, you're not taking anything away.

In fact it's better since more people can join the discussion.

[stray fog]

Hear me out

The ancient civilization was obsessed with making themselves into shades to "cleanse themselves"

But, the dream nail dialogue for the area where you get the abyss shreik is "our voices Will cry out again"

[barren beacon]

So does Huntress die

[stray fog]

The void has "no voice to *cry suffering*"

Very similar wording

So did the ancient civilization cleanse themselves with void, and then something happened which made them wish to "cry out again"

[magic isle]

That’s because it is

I can share a video if you’d like

[stray fog]

Ok

[magic isle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_-6Bvl41ds

[stray fog]

This is the video I was watching rn
I got this idea halfway through the video

[magic isle]

Lol

We literally watching the same video

I think he said in the vid that Pharloom abyss and Hallownest abyss are kinda the same

[fallow nacelle]

Can we assume that the vast majority of bugs that attack you are controlled by silk or just naturally hostile to outsiders? We see some clearly, we also see others that are perhaps just beastly in nature (Skarr). But some you can't see silk around, like underworks bugs.

Or is it like, the haunting was so grave that everyone we see is controlled by silk to an extent outside of animals

[magic isle]

It’s literally the silk possessing the residence to attack you

Literally the haunting

[stray fog]

I hope they do something like different than a hivemind if they make a third game

[magic isle]

Wait for DLC

[fallow nacelle]

no no I know that!! Not all bugs are haunted though. I think there was a hint on far fields' pilgrim rest that the haunting is related to your willpower? One of the bugs was practically breaking mentally and when you enter the room again they're haunted

[magic isle]

I would guess the ppl of the citadel would deem you a threat since their allegiance is with GMS

Also @stray fog do u feel the delicate flower version of embrace the void is canon?

i personally believe that it is but i want to here your thoughts

[humble peak]

all endings are canon

;)

[wild zinc]

Also I think it’s great parallels how hollow knight starts with a poem about how great hallownest is and silksong starts with a poem about how bad pharloom is

[humble peak]

is it just me or did Hallownest's Mask Maker have a lot more to say than Pharloom's?
Though tbf Pharloom's is much less cryptic.

[edgy nebula]

i wonder if this is a commentary on how the knight came to be aswell as an explanation of masks in general

[stone herald]

yknow its interesting how pharloom as a whole is described as having a beast's nature

[edgy nebula]

beast's nature = 2 dmg

[stone herald]

and it waking is presumably GMS waking, what exactly is a beast

herrah was: a beast

[humble peak]

Herrah is weird

in HK she was explicitely described as "a common bug"
but they retconned that to shit lol

[lethal burrow]

i love it as retroactive characterization.

hk's mask maker is much more cryptic than silksongs it's extremely funny it makes the one in deepnest just look like a cryptic little freak not because he's a mask maker, but just because he's like that

[lethal burrow]

by whom was this said tho

[vague whale]

it wasn't even

quote was "common beast" iirc

[stone herald]

given the poem of pharloom at the start

beast might be a term directly linked to spiders?

[stray fog]

Its very hard to say which of the three endings is canon

[stone herald]

maybe even weavers? its a link between HK and SS

[wild zinc]

Also I think it’s interesting how the unraveled in whiteward are explicitly aggressive cause of the pain and suffering they went through like that’s not even grand mother silks influence they’re just so angry they attack anything on sight

[stone herald]

i dont think its Dream no more for 2 major reasons.
THK shade isnt there
Reading developer intent, i dont think Team cherry did that whole hollow knight leaving the black egg thing for no reason, it feels like something they added in to tie HK to silksong and any possible games

[stray fog]

I just realized that no higher beings wear masks (the pale king we see is not his original form)

So higher beings don't need masks to exist

Or do whatever the mask maker was yapping about

[stone herald]

the vessels do, which implies the pale king does (given their heads are pretty pale king like)

the vessels probably need a mask for the void to imprint into the "vessel" role though

[stray fog]

The wyrm corpse doesn't have a mask

[stone herald]

lil king

[stray fog]

Except the weaver queen ig

[stray fog]

He made that form to look more like common bugs

[wild zinc]

Anyone else think it’s crazy how many versions of identity and soul the hollow knight universe has? Like ok there’s soul which is people’s soul obviously but it’s also just like a substance everyone has inside them that animates them into life but there’s also crests which are like manifestations of someone’s soul and identity and there’s also masks which form a bugs identity and some are born with them and some are not

[stone herald]

i see crests as WHAT you are and your face/mask as WHO you are

[stone herald]

well the vessels have masks they were born with so somethings up with the pale king's little form. Maybe he decided to grow a mask to help him better get to the level of the common bugs

[magic isle]

I saw the delicate flower version of embrace the void is canon

[bronze turret]

OH MY GODS IT'S AN L SOUND

https://youtu.be/pA7Id7lff6E?si=U_gRgLUlp6E7Uvsn&t=3558

[edgy nebula]

what is?

wooshkado?

[bronze turret]

"OoooshkaLou"

[edgy nebula]

whuuuh?

[bronze turret]

Just watch the video!

[edgy nebula]

DAAAAMN!!!

[edgy nebula]

it really is

[wild zinc]

I like how nuu says hola

[edgy nebula]

wooshkalo la

[bronze turret]

Kai lai lai lai 🎶

[edgy nebula]

i didnt expect myeshkalo

[bronze turret]

AHA so that's where the moustache comes from!

[edgy nebula]

yes!! ive seen garmond's va's wife comment on a few tt posts

it's very cool

[visual glacier]

SENZIBOOOO

[lethal burrow]

why did the citadel fall silent?

[terse warren]

Maybe GMS got used to the lullaby after all those millennia

I'm just shooting because iirc there's no actual explanation

[craggy smelt]

Lace was killing everybody for singing

[livid stirrup]

yall i have a question ab ||lifeblood||, since ||hornet doesnt become a zombie from having too much||, do we think that it could in theory have the same effect for the knight if they had too much? by that i mean ||getting a minor healing factor,|| since theyre both ||children of the pale king,|| and on that note could it be used to help ||the broken vessel|| from hollow knight like a comic i saw awhile ago?

[robust wagon]

Giving broken vessel would be just like them being infected again, it really doesn't help

[manic sage]

the architects finished with the cogwork core, which made the “song” that they needed to play go on forever without the need of a bug to sing

so the conductors issued an order telling everyone that it’s done

or something along the lines of that

[molten python]

The Broken Vessel is just an empty shell, there is no Shade inside like the other "living" vessels.

[stone herald]

the knight doesnt really have adverse effets, even with jonis blessing (which they can just take on and off) they ARE designed to contain infection so lifeblood probably has no real effect on them

[livid stirrup]

damn, theyre my favorite design for a vessel, i like to imagine they tried to contain what parts of the infection they could despite not being able to get into the black egg, which is why we find them so close to so much of the infection

[remote flax]

I don't think there could be a overdose of life blood to knight as he is made to store thing in himself

[fringe hull]

Can somebody tell me what's the deal with whiteward?

[remote flax]

They put silk in bugs to make bugs immortal(or long life span) and also experiments

[toxic mulch]

Medical facility where they did cruel experiments on bugs to forcefully extend their lives with silk

They also somehow turned bugs into the silkflies we see around the game

[abstract rivet]

why were cogwork dancers built

[terse warren]

"We have Yuri on Ice at home"

I guess the Citadel with their obsession with eternity wanted to immortalize the Princes' dance forever

[craggy smelt]

probably to guard the inner sanctum of the Citadel, hence them doing just that

[molten python]

Guarding the Cogwork Core I presume.

[craggy smelt]

one of the Princes apparently offered his power in a bargain to spare Verdania, but whatever deal they made was betrayed

[molten python]

Keeping the Cogwork Core safe was essential to keep the song going.

[lapis jacinth]

Couldn't Hornet simply have ignored the Abyss? I mean, GMS would run out of strength eventually and the void would calm down

[steep talon]

well the thrashing voided strings would have completely destroyed pharloom and any of its inhabitants

[abstract rivet]

also she wanted to save lace

[lapis jacinth]

not like that didnt happen either way

[abstract rivet]

second point tho

[steep talon]

pharloom can rebuilt with bugs left. if the void was left to run rampant there it would be as desolate as abyss

[lethal burrow]

They didn't finish though

12 architect says they didn't

[lapis jacinth]

but wouldn't it calm down after gms stopped

[steep talon]

gms has a lot silk. it would take long time for void to chew through it, and in that timeframe hornet deemed that pharloom might get completely destroyed. better off just go herself and put a stop to it

[steep talon]

they didnt finish the chamber with architect melody. but cogwork core they say is complete to sustain the song

its a funny distinction though

[austere hinge]

i am NOT fighting another chorus

[deft tendon]

dw ab spoiling messages, all spoilers are allowed

[manic sage]

there’s like a

choral commandment

the architects did SOMETHING

[maiden meteor]

Lost Chorus fight

[molten python]

That was about the Architect's Melody. She said it was near-complete, and the constructs need only to be set to functional form, which is what Hornet did. The rest of Cogwork Core was complete, and it had the ability to produce song without the need of choirbugs.

We would hear the song of the Architects, at the core of our Citadel. They who sustain our realm, its walls, its floors and its voice, even as others fall silent.

Last edict of the Conductors. "And lo, is eternity sustained. By Architect's claw, we welcome that final form, of dial and rotor, and soul gladly given. The perfect, unfaltering voice."

Long before the c-c-creation of the core, the sentinels ventured, even beyond these walls, to see all bugs brought-forced safe to serve the Citadel.

[manic sage]

yeah

[fossil mural]

is it given how gms was birthed? like the kale ping was born from the body of a wrym (or took form at least), but Im not so sure how gms came to be

[manic sage]

I don’t think we’re told

[deft tendon]

kale king

[fossil mural]

kale ping*

[deft tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/hail-youre-the-master-youre-my-boss-so-i-say-hail-the-kale-gif-17575709

[manic sage]

ruler of all veggies

[deft tendon]

@plucky kiln

pinged kale

[fossil mural]

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-basketball-ice-dunk-hornet-gif-3999940650987546913

is this canon

[deft tendon]

yes, hornet CAN do sick hoops

[manic sage]

yes

very

[deft tendon]

average pogo with the beast crest

[fossil mural]

thats a x=y^2 graph

[austere hinge]

hey guys how do i reach this area

[molten python]

Go to this area and then take this exit.

Then just go straight.

[austere hinge]

what if i jump

[zinc cloud]

the snow in mount fay isnt snow right? i heard someone say that its mushrooms or something like that

[edgy barn]

No reason to think it is not real snow. Hornet takes freezing damage before getting the faydown cloak so we know the area is in fact very cold.

Also I have no idea what the mushroom thing might be based on.

[zinc cloud]

i dont know either, but i wonder how it works since the nameless town is on about the same level, if not higher as mount fay but it isnt freezing/snowing

[maiden meteor]

Mt Fay is probably freezing because of magic crystals everywhere

[charred nimbus]

aren't the magic crystals based on magnetite tho?

and magnetite is also seen in lava areas

but i could be wrong about that....

[maiden meteor]

they’re called “coldshards” tho

from the crystal flies descriptions

[cursive sinew]

My interpretation is that its mold or something and is cold for the bugs in the HK universe. It doesnt look like snow and there isnt any snowflakes or anything

The term snow or frost/ice is never used in the game as well afaik

[zinc cloud]

cool, well i hope Team cherry comes out with a map of both regions side by side someday, lining up the maps or making random correlations about the parts of those maps isnt fun

[fading shard]

hi

what did I miss

[wintry flame]

lace and phantom duo boss makes no sense

[steep talon]

i think it would be kinda messy, and would prefer them being seperate remixed fights

[wintry flame]

also i do not want another lace fight in this game

[wintry flame]

they fight entirely differently

[steep talon]

"I have paid my respects, and been granted her favour. Her down now fills my cloak, and does much to ward against the FROST of these heights." - Hornet

so there is frost. there is no ice, but pale ore is described to have icy chill

[wintry flame]

lace is, well, lace and phantom plays more like hornet2

[steep talon]

kinda true. but also there is no way they're not gonna give lost lace some bullshit

if they decide to do something akin to godhome of course

[wintry flame]

"what do youmean you lost lace"

"go find her"

[steep talon]

lol

[wintry flame]

last godhome boss is gonna be the twisted root parasite mark my words

[steep talon]

lost lace? did you check your closet?

[heavy gyro]

mark my words there's gonna be "awakened grand mother silk"

[wintry flame]

zzzzz

[steep talon]

ight, bet. i shall judge you when the time comes

[wintry flame]

it still feels like a gigantic loose end to have this secret extremely hard to achieve ending that cuts to black and implies something HORRIBLE happened

and then not build on it

[steep talon]

there is a lot of people that just say mark my words, this thing is 100% gonna happen. im starting to lose track of all of them

[wintry flame]

the entire abortion sidequest feels so weird

from a lore perspective

and it's one of my favorite things in the game for this reason

(also gives you the best crest in the game)

[steep talon]

it just a cool way to spice up getting the crest. all other crests are just from shrines, so they probably just wanted to mix it up

[wintry flame]

it's also the most unique crest in the game

[steep talon]

maybe

[elder rune]

Which army of mooks (So disregarding the Pale Court & Lace) do you reckon is stronger, the Citadel or Hallownest’s?

[edgy barn]

The citadel's units have more advanced fighting styles, are generally tougher, and in some cases even have Silk usage.

[elder rune]

That’s true, they also got four Choruses at minimum. Although Hallownest will mostly have to rely on its most powerful figures, there may be some advantages they have, such as the Soul Sanctum’s scholars & warriors.

Hallownest’s civilians also genuinely like they’re kingdom more, meanwhile most of Pharloom’s inhabitants are motivated by fear & zealotry

[edgy barn]

Eh I don't think the chorus robots are all that great personally. I feel like they are a discarded line of automaton.

Also, I wouldn't count the scholars as part of Hallownest's army, their whole thing happened against PK's wishes. I would only consider them in an "All of Hallownest vs All of Pharloom" comparison.

[elder rune]

Ehhhh, I feel like they should count since they weren’t Actively rebelling against the Pale King, they simply just had… Mild Disagreements in their specific methods & goals.

[light mauve]

When we finish act 3 and save pharloom idk what happens, will I be able to save Garmond if I didn’t kill him

Is it possible

[elder rune]

I think he may be cooked tbh

[light mauve]

Or anything void consumes

Is gone

[elder rune]

Void does not seem in anyway healthy or conductive to a bug’s wellbeing even when gone.

[light mauve]

Like

[vestal swan]

He's probably dead

Lace lives bc she's not a bug?

[cedar skiff]

theres bugs in certain areas that stop being voided after you get rid of that void mass

[edgy barn]

that opens up a whole can of worms such as "Is enemy respawning canon?"

[vestal swan]

I mean you could just say that there's an abundance of them left but most of them are haunted and raised dead anyway so I don't think that matters

[cedar skiff]

i think this is intentional as the void masses iirc also spawn an extra voided enemy

like it feels like its supposed to show you freeing the bugs from the void

but idk how much it helps for figuring out what determines if youre fucked forever or not when voided

personally i think garmond was just old and weak and laces also just not a bug so

[edgy barn]

Another relevant question is whether or not the haunting kills you.

[cedar skiff]

damn good point

we really have no way of telling do we

[vestal swan]

It doesn't seem nearly as violent as the infection, it's just puppeting you

Although the case of enemies that were alive to begin with is very low

[cedar skiff]

well we do free bellhart

which was kinda haunted??

[steep talon]

fuck it crack theory time

We pick up a wreath of purity from the third pinstress in putrified ducts. It's described as being woven of reed and leaf. Leaves are explanatory, her corpse are near some sort of plant, maybe they're mothleaves from bilewater, that are mentioned in mothleaf lagnia entry. But reeds? We only see reeds in shellwood I believe. Neither bile nor ducts(exluding the lake) have clear water for reeds to grow on them. Wreath itself also looks like vines with white petals we see all over shellwood. So fuck it that pinstress might have lived in shellwood before and fuck it even more of a crack theory: Melatolla, the dead wife of Plinney - yep that's her she's the pinstress

[vestal swan]

Where did that name come from?

I don't remember him saying a name

[steep talon]

Plinney says it in act 3, it's on wiki

[edgy barn]

Judging by Plinney's dialogue, his wife's corpse is actually at her grave. I do like the idea of her having been a pinstress though.

[vestal swan]

And it really wouldn't make sense for her to have a grave there if she's dead over in another town not buried

[rain gate]

people make graves for those who didn't have the bodies

[steep talon]

yee, that's the reasonable theory. Weird that we dont fight her when the ambush happens though. But hey fun crack theory

[rain gate]

maybe she just never came back from bilewater

[vestal swan]

This isn't a lost at sea situation, this is a very easily reachable location and how else would they know she's dead

[rain gate]

and they presumed her dead

[edgy barn]

yes but Plinney says that if he had died there they would have lied together forever.

It implies she is physically there, and if she wasn't, that seems like something he would comment on.

[steep talon]

argh, foiled yet again

[cedar skiff]

her being a pinstress is still a fun theory

[steep talon]

Fun detail i noticed while looking at some assets. Guardian memento has the cage and harp motif on it. Nothing too crazy, but cool detail

[cedar skiff]

i can super get behind that

[rain gate]

thats seths memento right?

[steep talon]

yee this one

two harps and cages

[vestal swan]

Where do you see a cage on that what

[edgy barn]

speaking of harps, have you noticed that pilgrim graves look like harps?

[steep talon]

i did. Tha's cool too, though not sure if it has any significance

[steep talon]

the ball is the cage

[hoary vigil]

What's the lore explanation for the shit ton of bells in bellways and underground areas, why so many of them?

[steep talon]

the yarn ball is supposed to represent cage. Path to slab from citadel is denoted with sign of the yarn ball, same as the place where we find Grindle. Those places are prisons, you know prison - cage. But it's a cage because weavers caged GMS by lulling her to sleep and represent it with the same yearn ball

[steep talon]

bugs just made them, idk

[vestal swan]

That just looks like the spindles all over the kingdom?

Not every ball is a cage

[steep talon]

well not every is supposed to represent it. But I think that was the idea, that ball is supposed to be a cage. Harp so song, and cage so lulling gms to sleep

[silk dirge]

oh yeah i definitely see it on seths memento

you mean the pharloom symbol right

i see it

[steep talon]

yee harp and cage. Sometimes they're not used in tanden, thought it was kinda insteresting

[vestal swan]

Ghostping?

[steep talon]

someone deleted their message

[twin dragon]

Might be completely unrelated but the citadel's sigil is also similar to this

[silk dirge]

nah its definitely intentional

[twin dragon]

part of it is, it has an arp around the cocoon for a reason

[zinc cloud]

well since song is used to keep GMS asleep, lotta instruments got made or sum and incorporated into travel for example

[twin dragon]

They're adult fleas

[empty scarab]

is beast crest related to karmelita in any way
seems pretty dumb but look at this pogo

[steep talon]

maybe the corpse we get beast crest from got killed by Karmelita, a bit of a stretch. But other than that and pogo there's not much relation

[subtle plaza]

The pogo is definitely one of the attacks that karmelita does, also karmelita is a skarr and we get the beast crest from hunters march

[empty scarab]

idk cuz the other attacks feel like the opposite of karmelita's style

[deft tendon]

nope, the corpse is just a primal beastfly. the circle is where the rest of its head would be.

[deft tendon]

@empty scarab

[empty scarab]

oh

welp

[cedar owl]

the Savage Beastfly fight would be vastly improved if it had the beast crest pogo as an attack

[deft tendon]

ehh hot take

[cedar owl]

bro I'm washed at the sarcasm

[deft tendon]

what sarcasm

[barren beacon]

So what's Pious Isamor's lore. Is it just a statue? Why can it talk, Silkflies?

[wet shadow]

Pious isamor comes from a time when the citadel was less corrupt

[graceful basin]

karmelita

[sinful nimbus]

The Citadel has always been extraordinarily corrupt

[cedar owl]

he means when the citadel wasnt opulent and preached about being humble

but yeah they were always liars

although they did use to be a lot more humble

[wet shadow]

After a while the citadel stowed it away cause it was calling out hypocrisy

[cedar owl]

yeah not a good look to be preaching that excess is a sin when this is the place your leaders are living in

[twin dragon]

isn't that a crazy ass room

it has a spa as the floor

[cedar owl]

yeah I did pick the most opulent area in the citadel as an exemple but the entire place is gilded and carved

[fallen dragon]

hey chat

[glass forge]

i think that's such a fun display of opulence because it's also so impractical - yes it shows off how rich they are but can you imagine having a spa as the floor when most bugs can't even swim

[fallen dragon]

i have a very spoiler-y question regarding the end of the game

[twin dragon]

Makes them look worse, especially since every bug we find there can fly

[sinful nimbus]

All spoilers are allowed dw

[glass forge]

oh that's in high halls isn't it, where there aren't any of the ex-pilgrims
I forgot

[vestal swan]

They have water slides

[fallen dragon]

can i ask stuff regarding any point of the game here?

like are spoilers just expected

[vestal swan]

This is the lore channel for the sequel you can talk about anything in here as long as it's based in the game

Spoilers are restricted in the channels for the first game

[fallen dragon]

Ok so the secret ending, are we sure that that was the knight?

[wintry flame]

how does that even work

[vestal swan]

Yes

[fallen dragon]

when i saw it for the first time, i noticed the horns

[wintry flame]

a lot of ss lore goes back retroactively to hk lore through the babyss

[fallen dragon]

they didn’t look like the knight’s horns

[vestal swan]

That is TK

[fallen dragon]

they looked like the early hollow knight’s horns

[sinful nimbus]

You spoiler tag Silksong stuff with a warning

[vestal swan]

Because the retcons are stupid and there's no reason to go spoil shit in the other channel for people

[vestal swan]

Have you beat the first game?

[fallen dragon]

yea, but it was a while ago

this is what made me think of that comparison

[vestal swan]

TKs shade flexes when they do void abilities or spells
THKs shade grew with their body

That is TK

[cedar owl]

flexes?

[fallen dragon]

weird how they’d change the horns like that

[vestal swan]

It gets slightly bigger and slightly different shapes every time it does a void ability or spell

[cedar owl]

whatever, here's an image for you @fallen dragon

[twin dragon]

They made em lightly longer at the end but that's about it

[vestal swan]

You know flexing outside of the body

[fallen dragon]

oh

ok that makes sense

[twin dragon]

did you fr forget THAT

[fallen dragon]

sorry

[fallen dragon]

i beat hollow knight over a year ago ~m~

[slate bobcat]

guys ||why is everyone ded in act 1 after i reached act 2... i discovered it while trying to find missed tools... like bru.. what happen to them||

[cedar owl]

gas leak

[twin dragon]

They uh. die

[fallen dragon]

silk leak

[twin dragon]

Because shit actually happens in silksong yknow

[slate bobcat]

erm

[vestal swan]

Who dies from act 2? I can only remember like two characters maybe

[glass forge]

molted skarr, dice man

[twin dragon]

The dice mf was so close to the citadel, too

[slate bobcat]

i mean both of them were just chilling in a hidden corner... so why they die...

[vestal swan]

Old man was old, ant got assassinated

[fallen dragon]

wouldn’t last judge just kill him?

[twin dragon]

We dont know if he sinned

[vestal swan]

He wasn't too concerned with climbing he was having fun gambling

[twin dragon]

I mean he gambled but not sure if that counts

[silk dirge]

roll a slot machine to see if you pass

last judge appears

aww dang it

[cedar owl]

gambling

[silk dirge]

tbh pharloom would be the type of place to have like a rosary casino or some shit

[glass forge]

iirc you can find dice man in the steps somewhere, he tried to finish his pilgrimage and died on the way

[silk dirge]

do we think gambling is a sin in pharloom

[vestal swan]

Oh I thought he just died where he was

[twin dragon]

breathing is a sin

[slate bobcat]

erm... sure ig.. makes sence kinda

[silk dirge]

i think this begs a question how do pilgrims get rosaries

[vestal swan]

They have all kinds of ridiculous made up sins to punish whoever they want, gambling definitely qualifies

[twin dragon]

Pilgrims climb up limbless blindfolded and lobotomized to not commit a sin

[silk dirge]

do they like fall out of the sky or some shit

[cedar owl]

I think the wiki has a list of sins

[glass forge]

i might be thinking of someone else, my memory isn't the best

[vestal swan]

Rosaries are carved from various materials, some of them are making their own. But of course there's places to pick them up along the pilgrimage and there's trade

[fallen dragon]

“guilty of the sin of sickness” caught me off guard when i found it lol

[vestal swan]

Mine either you could be right

[silk dirge]

oh yeah true they probably get scattered around pharloom

[twin dragon]

the rosary also represents prayer beads

So the wealthier = the holier

[vestal swan]

Yeah we know that but the question was where are they coming from

[twin dragon]

carved somewhere in the cit idfk

[vestal swan]

Yeah I said that

[silk dirge]

probably rosaries get picked up off dead pilgrims or some shit

[fallen dragon]

that too

[silk dirge]

and theres like a scarce supply provided to start it all off

[glass forge]

huh, apparently if you win the dice he dies just before last judge room but if you don't he stays in his camp (according to the wiki)

[fallen dragon]

if none at all tho

[twin dragon]

We see some of them get stored in some places so i assume the pilgrims went picking em up

[cedar owl]

ok I think these are all the named sins

• Indolence
• Heresy
• Apostasy
• Irreverence
• Infirmity
• Sickness
• Dissonance
• Death
• Failing to sing

[fallen dragon]

some pilgrims literally have nothing on them

except for their clothes

[glass forge]

wait death is a sin 😭
is that whiteward?

[edgy barn]

the confirmed by name ones are sickness, infirmity, dissonance, irreverence, apostasy and "unnamed"

[silk dirge]

yeah

[twin dragon]

also death

[edgy barn]

fuc-

[twin dragon]

"Failed to reeincarnate"

Like fym failed to reeincarnate

[fallen dragon]

do you think pharloom has a gestapo to enforce this kinda stuff

[silk dirge]

"Devout has succumbed during Silk suture. Refuses to revive. Sin committed. Permit no rites.

Husk marked for cremation. Retrieve dregs."

[fallen dragon]

Who does harpoon even worship

i mean pharloom

thank you autocorrect

are they praying to GMS?

[silk dirge]

the cocoon of gms

[twin dragon]

The gms cocoon and the weavers

[silk dirge]

its all a scheme to get them to sing to keep her asleep

[twin dragon]

Though the weavers faith phased out when they dipped

[glass forge]

the only full grown weavers we see are in memories and First Sinner right?

[edgy barn]

I mean yes but the vast majority of bugs don't know GMS exists. for the most part they worship the citadel itself

[edgy barn]

and Widow

[glass forge]

oh yeah

[silk dirge]

yeah they worshipped the big ball of yarn not knowing what it actually was

[vestal swan]

They started off with the Weaver's worshiping their creator I think, GMS
Then they also worshiped the weavers
Then the Weaver's locked up GMS and started the citadel and that's where it gets confusing, either they were still worshiping waivers or they were being gaslit into worshiping GMS and thinking the ritual keeping her asleep was a good thing, I mean it kind of was they were getting silk out of it too, and then the Weaver's left so the ritual only existed with the citadel and GMS and then all the made-up sins could have happened at any point just to control the populace

[cedar owl]

considering that the Citadel wanted to keep bugs alive so they could keep singing forever, it's kinda surprising how liberal their usage of "absolution after death" was
they were having too much fun

[vestal swan]

Where's that person with the mostly intact timeline when you need them

[glass forge]

what even is "absolution after death"

[silk dirge]

you are absolved of sins after death

which i dont see a purpose of unless they had an afterlife

[cedar owl]

OH COME ON

it's literally that

[twin dragon]

Judging by the sigil being the cocoon, they seemed to use it as a false idol of some sort

[glass forge]

oh it is just that
i thought it was a euphemism for something

[silk dirge]

i mean its a euphemism for life sentence

[cedar owl]

all bugs were mandated to live forever so "absolution after death" can only be an execution

well

sometimes they were just kept alive without being fed silk so they would die naturally

[vestal swan]

Weavers worship GMS
Weavers get worshiped
GMS gets locked up
Weavers are still worshiped maybe?
They passed the burden to the citadel
and the citadel either knows that it's a sham or is blindly worshiping gms/weavers
At some point during one of these the organized religion goes insane and they start making up a bunch of shit to punish people for

Does that make sense

[edgy barn]

Most of the citadel sins serve a practical purpose when you think about it. For example pilgrims not being allowed weapons means they can't become a threat.

[glass forge]

with that automated sin confession booth thing the list of sins is basically infinite

cause anyone might think something could be sinful and then be told yes it is indeed a sin most heinous

[vestal swan]

That sin confession booth was a suggestion box

[glass forge]

so the list expands endlessly

[twin dragon]

The higher ups realize what they did to gms and seemingly despise the weavers

[vestal swan]

?

I don't remember any lines like that but this whole thing is a mess

[silk dirge]

i think very few bugs actually discovered what was going on

[twin dragon]

Cardinius saying how vicious the weavers were

[cedar owl]

I dont think the religion went insane. all the sins listed fall in line with the weaver's plan for bugs to sing and keep the mother asleep eternally. theres even this weaver lore tablet saying "Raised up by fervour fostered"

[twin dragon]

And ballador saying "those bitter weavers"

[edgy barn]

You are sort of on track but Cardinius doesn't know about GMS.

He is talking about something else

[twin dragon]

He might

[silk dirge]

the 2 high ranking citadel people who discovered what was going on were the pontiff and romino i think

[vestal swan]

Okay so until at least the Weaver's left they were maintaining a lie

And they are probably responsible for all the BS

[silk dirge]

do we know if conductors ever visited the cradle

[cedar owl]

yeah, the silksong occam's razor is that if something is bad, it's the weavers' fault

[edgy barn]

He does not as he doesn't know what the Pontiff discovered is, and what the Pontiff discovered is GMS.

[twin dragon]

His hate for the weavers might certainly come from the pontiff then

[silk dirge]

i wonder how many people in pharloom actually know about gms

[edgy barn]

The Pontiff did not have contact with the other vaultkeepers after locking himself away and discovering the truth.

[twin dragon]

Then Cardinius just knew about their other acts

[silk dirge]

the list i think is:
-hornet
-lace
-phantom
-snail shamans
-pontiff
-romino

[twin dragon]

As he's responsible for hoarding history after all

[silk dirge]

and ofc all the weavers

[cedar owl]

mask maker

[silk dirge]

oh yeah

[vestal swan]

This reminds me, do y'all think caretaker learned about GMS by climbing the ranks of the citadel or is he actually so old that he remembers her taking over the region? Because their family did a good job of passing down knowledge

[silk dirge]

forgot about him

[edgy barn]

yeah that's what I am saying.

[silk dirge]

i think snail shamans just know shit

so probably the latter

[cedar owl]

I think all the conductors knew btw

ballador is holding this rune harp

[silk dirge]

yeah maybe

[edgy barn]

I mean it would be logical that the weavers would tell the conductors what the real purpose of the citadel is. Since they would get the power to just stop it from working they would need to know why they shouldn't do that.

[silk dirge]

do we think nuu knows about gms

[edgy barn]

no

[silk dirge]

she seems to know about a lot of random shit in pharloom

[vestal swan]

Huh?

Nuu doesn't really know much

[glass forge]

she just wanders around and eats weird things

[silk dirge]

like i dont think any pilgrim ever knew about watcher on the edge

[edgy barn]

Also, I just remembered Karmelita and very likely Khann.

[vestal swan]

The Hunter's journal is basically 100% written by hornet, anything nuu learns is probably from hornets reports

[silk dirge]

khann yeah for sure

[edgy barn]

Karmelita directly mentions the "creature pale" and Khann mentions the "pale light"

[silk dirge]

probably also green prince then

and maybe nyleth

[vestal swan]

Everyone from the age of GMS conquering shit knew her

[silk dirge]

its actually kinda crazy to me how green prince is older than hornet

that feels so weird

[vestal swan]

Timeline go brrrrr

[vestal swan]

Remember it's not like the radiance there's not a secret appearing in some people's heads, she actually conquered three out of four areas

[silk dirge]

all the old hearts were very powerful bugs so it would make sense to me they managed to live longer than most others

[cedar owl]

I'm gonna make a wild guess and assume that the pale king and white lady knew about the mother too. just because the higher beings seem to all follow each other on insta

[silk dirge]

do we think radiance and gms followed each other

[vestal swan]

Out of pettiness

[silk dirge]

"destroying kingdoms" facebook group of old moms

[cedar owl]

why are you mfs 🚫 ing headcanon

[vestal swan]

Cuz it's wrong and don't go here

[edgy barn]

All higher beings are unknowably old. By sheer probability they all have probably run into each other atleast once in the past.

[silk dirge]

anyways i feel like since pk was involved with weavers he probably would know something about gms

idk about wl tho

[vestal swan]

There's a really weird idea that higher beings all just know shit about each other and I thought you were actually implying that

[cedar owl]

too late, I'm already stepping on the crime scene

[glass forge]

oh wait yeah he is 😭

because he's older than the weavers and hornet wasn't born until after the weavers moved out of pharloom

[edgy barn]

I mean Grimm knows of the vessel project, and WL knows of the Heart and its ritual.

[glass forge]

that's a weird thought

[cedar owl]

the white lady just knows shit, idk

she's a knower

[vestal swan]

Shakra thinks she's older too but she's the closest to a teenager mindset that actually exists lol

[silk dirge]

since widow is still alive i think the weavers remaining in pharloom committed some sort of suicide by putting themselves in the spires

they probably can live a lot longer

bc it doesnt make sense to me a random grasshopper can live that fucking long

[vestal swan]

Grimm is going around eating up information magic, people's nightmares. It also stands to reason white lady who might be foreign would know of the one God that actually has a proper universal domain over nightmares and visits dying kingdoms

[silk dirge]

how old do we think hornet is in higher being years

[cedar owl]

17

[glass forge]

i love shakra thinking she's a Proper Grown Up and her bestie is probably older than her civilisation

[silk dirge]

shes probably a teenager in hb years and like 500 years old in normal bug years

[edgy barn]

I think is much weirder than Karmelita and GP are probably similar ages, but one is too old to move while the other hasn't aged a day.

[vestal swan]

Zemer moment, holding on to heartbreak just to live

[silk dirge]

tho tbh i dont think hbs would have a concept of age since they are time immortal

[vestal swan]

Also GP was sitting in a jail cell for like ever just moping

[silk dirge]

like as in time cant kill them but other shit can

[vestal swan]

WL talks as if aging is a problem for her and then there's PK

[edgy barn]

PK?

[silk dirge]

i mean i feel like pk probably just committed suicide or some shit

[cedar owl]

my theory is that he went on to the next stage of life and fucked off

[vestal swan]

I don't think they're actually is the next stage I think it's just wishful thinking from a couple of characters

[cedar owl]

oh, no 🚫 s this time?

[silk dirge]

wait where exactly does she say this

[glass forge]

pk was like "welp that plan didn't work out time to kill myself"

[vestal swan]

If you mean you think he transformed again he absolutely didn't

[cedar owl]

the radiance was his 13th reason

[vestal swan]

The dialogues about where shes thinks she can't see despite smelling ogrim iirc

[edgy barn]

the 7th was Herrah ranting about GMS in the aftermath of their deed.

[vivid kernel]

Sorry for breaking a coversation, but I'm just became curious... since when void tendrils are snake-like?

[vestal swan]

Always?

Their form in the original lake is basically what shade dash looks like with tails or arms coming off the back

[vivid kernel]

Like, in the cutscene when horned dives into void sea

they are not tentacles

[nimble ocean]

No the lake in HK

[vestal swan]

Yeah they're just really stretched out?

[vivid kernel]

they have beginnings and endings

[nimble ocean]

The lake by the lighthouse

[silk dirge]

"time has clouded my eyes" yeah i kinda get it but idk no other higher beings have shown any sign of dying by age

[echo trellis]

Ducts lore?

[vivid kernel]

those are snakes lol

[vestal swan]

None of them showing signs of dying by age doesn't mean that they aren't affected by it it just means they're extremely long lived, I mean shit we have seemingly normal ass bugs out living the rise and fall of two kingdoms

[silk dirge]

true

[vestal swan]

Lifespan varies VERY wildly in universe

[terse warren]

What else would next stage mean though

[silk dirge]

the lifespan shit in this universe is so funny lmao

especially with like tk

[vivid kernel]

They're not just extra long, it's literally snake-like creatures swimming at that sea. Not tendrils.
So like, void tendrils aren't really tendrils?

[vestal swan]

Some characters think there's an afterlife and I believe that seer thinks that that is the dream realm but consider everything there is a copy I don't think that would actually be the afterlife than most of them are thinking of

[silk dirge]

everyone calls tk small and its like you are talking to a really old being that is literally the god of void now

[terse warren]

Makes sense

[silk dirge]

ok actually void i think is immortal

i dont think void can die

[vestal swan]

Sorta

[silk dirge]

like i dont think anything is ever killing the shade lord unless its literally like universe collapser 9000 or some shit

[vestal swan]

It can be reduced back to its base state by beating the shit out of it, and the creature that it had assumed form of etc seemingly no longer exists

[terse warren]

I mean is it even alive in the first place

[vestal swan]

Yeah we have three (?) currently two confirmed non-soul-based life forms

Lifeblood void and maybe steel/growmetal

[silk dirge]

wait where does this happen

[vestal swan]

Collector

[silk dirge]

collector is weird

[vestal swan]

He doesn't retreat he becomes a puddle, the same as the other kings molds who lose their purpose or get defeated start to melt

[silk dirge]

bc collector doesnt seem like pure void but he doesnt give you soul

idk whats up with him

but like yeah gl doing that to the shade lord

[vestal swan]

He's pure void but he borrowed some of his ideas and shape from the love key bug

[silk dirge]

ok that makes sense

[vestal swan]

I do agree shsdelord is not going to fall easily but I don't think it's impossible

[silk dirge]

i mean it would probably take the combined power of like every pale being including ones weve never seen

[vestal swan]

Being pale doesn't really make a difference

Unn could just pour acid on them

[silk dirge]

true

[terse warren]

If he's a failed Kingsmould isn't there a nonzero chance it doesn't have some soul constructing it?

[vestal swan]

He doesn't have his armor or his orders so that's why his shape is loose, when he staggers he's already melting

[terse warren]

Not anymore since apparently Pale Beings can't do shit to fight back against the Void

[vestal swan]

Nah WLs just an idiot

[silk dirge]

but like the power scaling for hbs isnt even close its like yeah radiance is probably the 2nd strongest hb but shes like 9*10^9 times weaker than shade lord

[terse warren]

Only way to defeat Shade Lord is to pour a lot of Everblooms on it

[vestal swan]

PK glowed

Wait not hornet

[terse warren]

White Lady says it in Red Memory

[vestal swan]

Yeah white lady is just stupid

[silk dirge]

i mean pale beings can repel the shade lord maybe

[terse warren]

I mean

Retcon number 7?

[vestal swan]

No that's not a retcon that's just white lady being unreliable again

[silk dirge]

but unless theres a fuck ton of them i dont think theyd actually do shit to it

[vestal swan]

I'm also going to take this opportunity to believe that the flower is not the first light because it's so stupid

[sinful nimbus]

WL isn't portrayed as an unreliable narrator in that scene lol

[silk dirge]

like itd just go hide or some shit

[terse warren]

"Trust me bro you're hollow"

[sinful nimbus]

"Guys its not a retcon TC just made their characters idiots for no reason because that's so much better"

[terse warren]

I mean Hornet isn't ever portrayed as an unreliable narrator but she's constantly biased and talks about shit she shouldn't have knowledge about

[sinful nimbus]

Said about Hornet White Lady and the Snail Shaman

[glass forge]

what was retconned in silksong?

[terse warren]

Have you considered the snail shaman was just young

[silk dirge]

we are not doing this discussion now

[vestal swan]

I mean neither option is good but white lady being unreliable fits

[silk dirge]

top 10 banned questions you cant ask in sk lore

[sinful nimbus]

It might be quicker to go over what wasn't retconned in Silksong

[glass forge]

oh, sorry

[silk dirge]

its not banned lol

[vestal swan]

And hornet picking up on it saying her dad didn't harness void

[sinful nimbus]

No it doesn't

[terse warren]

Still think the idea of Hornet also getting a Pale Glow would've been better than Everbloom

[sinful nimbus]

You're not supposed to look at Red Memory and go "Wow she's saying a bunch of nonsense"

[terse warren]

Team Cherry should do what Hades 2 did and just completely rewrite the true ending to not be shit

[silk dirge]

its just id prefer this discussion doesnt happen for the 8.854 * 10^12 time

[vestal swan]

Retcons

• lifeblood
• how void heart operates
• hornets lineage
• three queens
• attempting to change shamans
• hive is known for steel work now...
• white lady forgets that her husband literally glows
• all endings kind of being tossed in the trash but not really
• The runaway Weaver (could have just died)
• avg masks actually doing something
• hornet thinks her dad's void robots were a failure

[glass forge]

ah

[sinful nimbus]

average masks do not actually do something cuh 🥀

Otherwise yes

[terse warren]

You're forgetting that the Weavers mentioned in HK that "went back to their homeland" literally were never mentioned in Silksong

[silk dirge]

i dont think the runaway weaver is a retcon bc we dont actually know what happened to them

[sinful nimbus]

Team Cherry should do what Hades 2 did and add more gays

[terse warren]

Real

[silk dirge]

its more an open question on that and the other weavers

[terse warren]

Hollow Knight gaysong

[vestal swan]

Dying offscreen isn't a retcon it's just bad writing

[sinful nimbus]

Its not a retcon per se but throwing out literally all your sequel bait is very bizarre

[cedar owl]

three queens one is cope
you just mad cuz you werent one of the true believers

[silk dirge]

i hope we meet some of those weavers in dlc

[terse warren]

Same thing that happened to the runaway Weaver then

Actually wait which one are you talking about

[silk dirge]

or atleast the runaway one

[sinful nimbus]

DLC this DLC that DLC is always mid \🥀

[silk dirge]

plasmium update truth nuke

[terse warren]

Could've at least told us if they died

It's not like Hornet is averse to talking about shit she has no knowledge about

[silk dirge]

you know theyre gonna name an update plasmium

you fucking know they will

[sinful nimbus]

Hidden Dreams was literally the only good one lorewise

[terse warren]

"Devotion or destruction, those are the only fates my kind allows" stfu bro you weren't even there 💔

[cedar owl]

the tabacco industry will pay me handsomely for all the powdered 🚫 I'm farming today

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet insulting the Pickled Muckmaggot (She doesn't eat)

[silk dirge]

one does not need to eat for that

[terse warren]

Hornet sees a depressed gay man and immediately "This must be the work of an enemy Silk user"

[sinful nimbus]

What

[terse warren]

Hornet insulting the Wardenflies (she is racist)

[sinful nimbus]

Its a literal delicacy prized by an esteemed chef

[silk dirge]

if i saw a pickled muckmaggot im not eating that shit

[sinful nimbus]

Can't argue with the close minded

[silk dirge]

yeah ok keep going to your overrated michelin 3 star restaraunts

[terse warren]

It's like people who refuse to eat seafood

[sinful nimbus]

No because that's based

[silk dirge]

literally me lmao

i just cant bring myself to eat a fish

[terse warren]

Proving my point 🥀

[silk dirge]

its so out of character for me bc i base my online profile around seals

but like i just cant do it

[terse warren]

Vro

[silk dirge]

all other meats are fine

[terse warren]

It's literally like the best food category

[silk dirge]

fish i cant

[sinful nimbus]

Fish is cool but if its a shrimp or a crab or a lobster its disgusting

[vestal swan]

I meant the one we saw, afaic that's the only survivor

[sinful nimbus]

I miss #ss-discussion food disc....

[silk dirge]

bro how do people eat octopus

[sinful nimbus]

That was the peak of the server

[silk dirge]

yeah a lot of those weavers seem to have died before they left

[terse warren]

From HK? Then yeah literally same situation as the ones who ran away

[terse warren]

Insane

Crustaceans are literally like the best ever

[vestal swan]

Crustaceans are not human!

[sinful nimbus]

You probably got hungry fighting Crust King Khaan

[terse warren]

Yeah

[terse warren]

+Sea Urchins

[silk dirge]

id be fine eating cooked driznit

[terse warren]

Sea Urchin Pasta is actually the best food ever

I'd die fighting over this

[silk dirge]

and ill die over bourekas being a god tier food

specifically the sephardic jewish version ive not had other variants

but that one specifically is so good

[terse warren]

Silksong releasing so far has brought:

Countless retcons and bad writing
The fall of #hk-discussion and #sk-discussion

Was this truly worth it?

[silk dirge]

yes

[vestal swan]

It got rid of a lot of the regular so yes

[silk dirge]

sk discussion was awful lol

[terse warren]

I liked the HK disc regulars

[vestal swan]

Unfortunate

[silk dirge]

i wonder if the hk community had a large modding scene and had like modding directs and award shows how it would handle it

[vivid kernel]

Just read the discussion... uh, why people have problems with everbloom lore-wise? Just curious

[silk dirge]

celeste actually has that and its probably one of the only communities award shows dont devolve into absolute stupidity

fucking gd awards 😭

[sinful nimbus]

Its moreso White Lady's dialogue not really making sense but the Everbloom itself doesn't have much coherent thematic relevance and feels more like a shoehorned in reference to the first game more than anything

[vestal swan]

It also doesn't behave consistently

Which is really annoying because it leaves the cliffhanger completely a cliffhanger

[sinful nimbus]

I get ss-discussion but hk-discussion changing rules is the stupidest thing ever 😭

Also spell #ss-discussion properly

Never forget our history

[vestal swan]

When discord stops being stupid

[vivid kernel]

Well, the flower in hk was able to stop the void, I guess it's logical that hornet could use one to dive into the same void, no?

[vestal swan]

Yeah but the flower doesn't do the same thing

[sinful nimbus]

That's not thematic relevance

[vestal swan]

Despite being the same kind of flower

[sinful nimbus]

Also yes it doesn't do the same thing it was hinted to do in HK

[silk dirge]

hornet pale aura wouldve been so cool but we got a silly flower instead

[sinful nimbus]

Lasting like 30ish seconds in the abyss is also kinda absurd, its painted as stronger than the Pale Beings in that regard

[vivid kernel]

It repelled shade lord, it repels void tendrils

isn't much different

[vestal swan]

It didn't really repel the shadelord tho

[sinful nimbus]

It completely vaporized shade lord to god knows where

[vivid kernel]

and tendrils that tried to grab hornet maet the same treatment

[vestal swan]

Invisible, shrinks, teleportation, time travel, obliterated, etc

[silk dirge]

you could make everything still work out by saying hornet needs to concentrate to have her pale aura and she loses concentration after lost lace or some shit

[vestal swan]

A single drop touching the first flower set it off and she jumped into a lake and it simply pushed it back

[terse warren]

I want my second hk-offtopic channel masked as fully HK back 🥀

[vivid kernel]

I... thought it was kinda always the case?

[sinful nimbus]

That what was always the case

Its not that it being stronger than pale beings is the issue its that... we see a Pale Being last more time than it

[terse warren]

Silksong was just an excuse for Pale King slander

[silk dirge]

i feel like team cherry probably has a different idea of the pale king than we do

[terse warren]

That's not how writing a story works

[silk dirge]

i mean sure but maybe they know shit we dont know

[terse warren]

You can't just make one of the best rulers in fiction in the first game and then just change it all up in game 2

[silk dirge]

our assumptions on the pale king are pretty good based on what we know but maybe hes bad to them idk

[terse warren]

Even then the Pale Glow wasn't a character thing it was a physical thing

[silk dirge]

i really hope we get to see team cherry lore bible at some point if it even exists

[vivid kernel]

The only thing I didn't get is why the flower was destroyed. Like, it literally puffed the shade lord and in ss it just... died because... huh?

[vestal swan]

Cheese accept the PK fraud theory

[sinful nimbus]

It dies because there needs to be a shade lord cameo

[terse warren]

I would sooner remake Silksong from scratch

[vestal swan]

It should have died faster in silk song tbh

But somehow it was reinforced by the spell that created it that just barely managed to pull that feat off by the way by killing the people that cast the spell...

I feel like if you're barely scraping by and absorbing the spell casters to get the spell off it shouldn't have given bonus effects

[edgy barn]

you are assuming it is getting bonus effects

[vestal swan]

Isn't it stated to be more sturdy and, well it literally lasts longer

[silk dirge]

i mean the giving back silk after being hit by a void attack is fine by me otherwise lost lace would be a lot less fun

[edgy barn]

it is stated to be frail when you optain it

[vivid kernel]

Completing another gentle flower quest would be a pure pain though... It's just.. why it died BY VOID? The only thing that is hurt by the flower

[silk dirge]

anyways hornet pk arc with her getting a pale aura wouldve been so cool

especially as like a contrast to gms

[bleak maple]

hi guys. I just noticed something interesting. So for some reason all Pale King's lore tablets are the same as lore tablets of ancient cyvilisation from Pharloom

[silk dirge]

i kinda want to write this out when i have time

[edgy barn]

The flower is burning itself out everytime it repels void

[silk dirge]

i have a lore writing gene or some shit

[bleak maple]

Not sure what we can do with that
but yeah

[vivid kernel]

Were ancients just a race of depressed bugs lol? I honestly somewhat chuckled at "Void, cleanse us, to suffer no more" line, Idk why

[silk dirge]

they were more emo than trobbio

[vivid kernel]

like, what the heck

[edgy barn]

HK ancients are really shaping up to be just Rain World ancients all over again.

[silk dirge]

im betting theyre related to steel city

[terse warren]

I mean those guys are a bit more justified

[hidden crater]

Im going insane

[frigid belfry]

that’s actually a pretty cool discovery

[silk dirge]

this isnt the land of storms tho right

[sinful nimbus]

That memory doesn't take place in the LoS it takes place in the wastes

That said the two images are clearly different

[frigid belfry]

They are both on the surface (wastes) but they do look pretty similar

I wonder if it’s intentional or just a coincidence

[silk dirge]

thats just how the wastes look like

[terse warren]

It doesn't?

[silk dirge]

theres 2 memories

the all bindings one is los

the random chance one is wastes

[terse warren]

Isn't that the bindings one?

[silk dirge]

i dont think so

[terse warren]

Oh

Anyways it looks somewhat similar and I don't trust TC so it might actually be the same

But eh

[silk dirge]

i mean it wouldnt really mean much

oh yeah the godseeker stopped by pharloom at some point but it wasnt powerful enough for the ritual and left

gms is not a good god of gods

[edgy barn]

Pharloom downscale

[crisp musk]

Man
I really really want to know just what exactly happens after the standart act 2 ending
Does nothing change as hornet gives into the wyrm nature to dominate?
Or does she (or whatevers left of her after anyway) actualy change stuff in pharloom?
Please TC, we need answers

[frigid belfry]

when was this stated if I forgot

[edgy barn]

Not something that has been stated but rather a theory comes from the fact that a cave near Nameless Town looks very similar to the one the godseeker is in one of her memories.

[edgy barn]

here

[frigid belfry]

crazy pharloom nerf if stated

kinda makes sense though since there’s only really 3 higher beings

[hidden crater]

The void nerfed pharloom

[frigid belfry]

Compared to like 5 in hallownest and a bunch of demigods

[edgy barn]

3? I understand if you consider Nyleth a HB (I disagree but whatever) but who would the third be?

[frigid belfry]

GMS, Nyleth is heavily implied to be one (unn feats), Hornet in one ending, the knight and his siblings (although temporary), and the gods of thunder and rain

So I just took the latter and GMS

[edgy barn]

Pharloom is not the lands of storms, the gods of thunder and rain wouldn't have been there (not are they confirmed HBs)

[limpid summit]

Do you think the Flick statue was a golden calf of sorts and GMS sent the skull tyrant to punish the pilgrims

[frigid belfry]

It’s possible pharloom in the past (the surface at least) was the land of storms, and it’s highly likely they are HBS based on the God seekers text

[edgy barn]

The first statement has no evidence, and for the second, Godseeker has a very broad definition of god.

[sinful nimbus]

TRUE

[lusty tree]

it doesn't matter if we get the flick statue or not, the skull tyrant still kills the pilgrim

[frigid belfry]

Based on the image above, it’s possible that it was the land of storms, and why would the godseekers who worship higher beings and tend to disregard powerful mortals worship 2 non HBS?

[edgy barn]

the trigger for the attack is killing the other skull tyrant not the statue.

[edgy barn]

Tuner memory is not the land of storms, they are two separate things, and the godseekers DO NOT disregard powerful mortals. the vast majority of their gods are powerful mortals.

They just dislike the Knight in particular

[silk dirge]

flukemarm being a powerful mortal will never not be funny

[lusty tree]

shes the goddess of motherhood

[silk dirge]

flukemarm is the goddess of good motherhood

same with moss mother