sk-lore

[gloomy heart]

Hardest fight in the game bc of his biden blast

[stuck berry]

sorry man we have to kill you for that one

[silk dirge]

quad damage attack

[vague whale]

You're going to the Shadow Realm, Jimbo

[muted lantern]

what is this referring to

[cedar owl]

ah hell it's mask lore

[stuck berry]

hugh neutron could be an old heart

[gloomy heart]

damn

[vague whale]

That's true actually

[stuck berry]

you know what you did

[muted lantern]

i don't know what you're talking about

[stuck berry]

ok buddy

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/shur-up-seal-hey-man-can-you-shur-up-shakes-butt-seal-shake-gif-6134540528822609889

[vague whale]

Hugh Neutron, Margaret Thatcher, we need one more

We're very close to the real lineup I think

[gloomy heart]

William henry harrison

[stuck berry]

weird guy evil woman now we need a good one

[muted lantern]

what heart is remaining?

[quiet briar]

Did pinstress help with creation of automatons? Because second sentinel is a very similar fight move wise. Or is it just another copy paste done by the citadel like dancers

[vague whale]

LUCY!!!!

[gloomy heart]

hunter (i think?)

[vague whale]

Australopithecus afarensis

[gloomy heart]

Truly the oldest of hearts

[muted lantern]

pinstress says that they taught their skills to the citadel and then they were used against them

[silk dirge]

isnt that a fuckin monkey or some shit

[gloomy heart]

Elite pull

[stuck berry]

presumably the sentinels were trained with help from them yeah

[gloomy heart]

One of our early ancestors lol

[vague whale]

Thank you I'm very honored

[gentle aspen]

The pinstresses helped train all of the citadel’s members

[quiet briar]

Sick

[stuck berry]

see it's funny because when the pinstresses ran off they sent a chorus after one of them and presumably caused the death of another

[silk dirge]

thats how evolution works

[limpid summit]

They made it out the Bilewater and then got thrown to the wayside

[gloomy heart]

Wait that’s sick i didnt know that’s why second sentinel had the one attack

[gloomy heart]

Yep

[quiet briar]

THATS WHY ITS THERE OML. This whole time I thought it was lace’s pin and she left it there for us or sm 😭

[stuck berry]

there should have been a yellow pinstress

[vague whale]

SO! The Old Hearts. Hugh Neutron. Margaret Thatcher. And Lucy. An impressive lineup today folks

[gloomy heart]

Who is the doomed yaoi heart tho

[muted lantern]

pissstress?

[stuck berry]

it's definitely seamstress's pin, it's also why it wakes up to attack hornet because it detects seamstress's work on hornet's cloak

[quiet briar]

This game man

[vague whale]

somebody mentioned Jesus earlier so I guess it's Judas Iscariot?

[gloomy heart]

lmao

[stuck berry]

there's gotta be a better example

[muted lantern]

Judas bossfight would go hard

[gloomy heart]

Truly the first sinner

Ok technically that was adam and eve but still

let me have this one

[muted lantern]

i don't know enough bible lore to add to this one

[silk dirge]

moses boss fight

[stuck berry]

judas was a pathetic little guy though. i mean no insult to him i sympathize but he immediately regreted it tried to give his money back and killed himself

i don't see enough there to have a boss with

[vague whale]

That's understandable

[stuck berry]

moses would go super hard though

[muted lantern]

this wouldn't be the first pathetic little guy boss fight in the hk series

[vague whale]

Okay scrapping the Jesus yaoi, who else

[stuck berry]

y'all know how in smash ultimate the final battle is the light orb and the dark orb fighting each other and you have to kill both for the true ending

[silk dirge]

the what

[stuck berry]

that with cain and abel

[gloomy heart]

Wait i got one

Alexander the great

[vague whale]

NOT BAD

[stuck berry]

you could say it was great :clueless:

[vague whale]

But actually we fight his horse

[silk dirge]

maimonides boss fight

[stuck berry]

nostradamus...

[gloomy heart]

Lmao peak

[silk dirge]

he would be a cracked mage boss fight or smth

that seems like something that could fit him idk

[gloomy heart]

I think we need to remember that this is the yaoi heart we are talking about

Alexander the Great sweeps for this role

[stuck berry]

so who are our four old hearts

[gloomy heart]

Hugh Neutron, Margaret Thatcher, Lucy the Australopithicus, and (if i have my way) Alexander the Great

[vague whale]

*'s horse

[stuck berry]

a real lineup we have here

[gloomy heart]

The horse can be the palestag equivalent

See everything checks out

[stuck berry]

fictional character real person a real being whom we have ascribed many headcanons to and real person with a dubious animal

[vague whale]

No no Alex is the Palestag and the horse is the heart boss

[gloomy heart]

LMAO

[chrome atlas]

his name was BUCEPHALUS you put some RESPECT on my HORSEY boy's NAME

[gloomy heart]

so anyways hollow knight silksong is a video game by team cherry that released on September 4th, 2025-

[vague whale]

BUCEPHALUS that's it, thank you, I did know that but kept being unable to remember

Okay, so, Hugh Neutron, Margaret Thatcher, Lucy, and Bucephalus

[stuck berry]

lucy is nyleth hugh is karmelita marge is khann and bucephalus goes without saying

[vague whale]

I think I agree with that

[gloomy heart]

truly an important discussion for the ages

[vague whale]

Honestly yes it is

Historians will mark this day down

[gloomy heart]

Team Grape take notes

[vague whale]

Because we scholars of the ancient days are the ones who know the bearers of the Old Hearts of this world

[unreal nimbus]

woah no ones talking about anything

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/trobbio-silksong-hollow-knight-tormented-trobbio-scared-gif-13022162881477030202

[unreal nimbus]

woah nothing has changed

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-hollow-knight-nodding-yes-yea-gif-6093082880304835522

[unreal nimbus]

so uh

ductsuckers, am i right?

[stuck berry]

i don't think slurs are allowed in this server

[gloomy heart]

incorrect

[unreal nimbus]

did i say a slur

[stuck berry]

sounded like it

[unreal nimbus]

oh

[vague whale]

I can reclaim

[gloomy heart]

he’s talking about the big ass mfs in putrified ducts but the name sounds like one haha

[unreal nimbus]

groal probably has a slur for citadelians

[stuck berry]

oh the sucky ones

[gloomy heart]

“Silkers”

[unreal nimbus]

that sounds like a slur the citadel has for weavers

[gloomy heart]

Best i can think of tbh

[unreal nimbus]

bellheads

[gloomy heart]

ig that also works lol

[unreal nimbus]

thats just a really dumb insult that a 5 year old would come up with actually

this is important lore

[quiet briar]

Is Eva in any way related to the steel assassins? We see in a rune harp something along the lines of “our shame made form in steel” or whatnot. Also she looks similar? If not is there lore we do know about her

[foggy fractal]

no she's not

[unreal nimbus]

ok im back i just had to approve some now official groal merchandise

[unreal nimbus]

does Eva look

i thought Eva was just that light

[foggy fractal]

A flawed attempt. A life spun from rune and shell, sustained only by its cage. My thoughts may mimic a Weavers but my senses are my own
Hide her deep, the despised child, our shame shown in shell of iron. She is a wish cast vain, divinity mimicked in form too frail.

the shell of iron refers to the cage she needs to be in

[stuck berry]

silksong fans when they cut themselves with stainless steel (sharpe for DLC confirmed)

god we've really become deltarune fan level of lore crazy haven't we

[unreal nimbus]

im both :D

[stuck berry]

im old!

[foggy fractal]

wouldn't be the first to say "oh this looks vaguely similar to that they must be connected"

[unreal nimbus]

its fun because i have no clue whats real or not

[unreal nimbus]

kill your tv

right now

[foggy fractal]

also you can go check out the wiki to see what we do know

[unreal nimbus]

i just realized there are like 10 groals the greats in this server and im not sure how to cope

[quiet briar]

Ah. Makes a lot more sense. Was just going by memory and two and two maybe did not make four

[quiet briar]

You can be groal the greatest

[foggy fractal]

where is groal the humble tho...

[unreal nimbus]

im very humble

also theres groals number 1 hater in this server

gotta find em

[stuck berry]

the groaltiverse of greatness

[unreal nimbus]

i need to stop putting very non lore things in the lore channel

[quiet briar]

Are we sure it isn’t lore? What if there actually are like 10 groals

[unreal nimbus]

i tried to join #sk-discussion but they snapped me immediately

[stuck berry]

do you think his rump is called groal the gyatt

[foggy fractal]

no because he doesn't have any

[muted lantern]

are pilgrims allowed to drink in their religion?

there seems to pilgrims in the halfway house

[stuck berry]

sherma accidentally drinks some flea brew and then the last judge comes for his ass

[muted lantern]

Flea brew seems to be more of an energy drink than an alchohol

[wild zinc]

If the second sentinel drew something would that classify as ai art

[muted lantern]

second sentinel seems sentient, and the silkflies that power them use the souls of dead bugs basically so it's pretty much a person

[past cypress]

I thought Second Sentinel was powered only by the cogheart

[muted lantern]

i think all cogworks have silkflies in them

[livid grotto]

:3333

DAMN

😭

goddamni my laptop is low

:c

i hate that my game gets laggier when im charging

damn i died

welp

time to go again

DAMN ITTT

I WAS TRYING TO HEAL BUT I DIDNT HAVE SOUL 😭

adfahklbdnlj

wuh.

[silk dirge]

im gonna be honest wtf was team cherry thinking with silkfly lore

"oh yeah lets make one of the most fucked areas of the game containing a pit hornet says she will never be able to fully clear of pain even more fucked up"

[livid grotto]

WHY DOES HE JUMP ACROSS THE WHOLE STAGGEEEE

😭

[muted lantern]

Hornet:

[muted lantern]

this is the silksong lore chat btw

[livid grotto]

what?

how did i get here

i havent even played silksong yet

[muted lantern]

lol

run theres spoilers here

[foggy fractal]

yes this is an all spoilers channel

we will casually talk about all of the game

[topaz estuary]

What exactly does this refer to

[muted lantern]

whiteward

[topaz estuary]

Oh right

[stuck berry]

never was a fan of the ghost in the machine trope but it really is something how they managed to stick it into a fantasy steampunk game

[stone herald]

She shd just pour void in it and get rid of it that way

NVm there's two games explaining why you don't do that

[silk dirge]

she says in the journal entry for unravelled

i think the best bet would be to treat it like nuclear waste and dump concrete in that pit

[stone herald]

I was suggesting pouring void into the pit to get rid of it all

[stone herald]

But that's just a bad idea

[silk dirge]

dumping void is not something that would end well

[stone herald]

It'd just being out a big ass void being and you'd have to call in ghost or the hollow knight

Actually on that note, there's almost certainly more vessels just around the world

[silk dirge]

also kinda unrelated to lore but this buff is so goated

[stone herald]

WOOOOO

[stone herald]

Given how goated ghost and THK, it'd be pretty cool if we got to see another vessel warrior in another game

Though at the same time the vessel tragedy is all cleared up by this point

It's a little concerning that you have a lot of demigod void beings just roaming around the world in the wake of what the pale king did, since it's almost certain more than just the knight escaped hallownest

And now that the infections dealt with hornet doesn't have to keep murdering them

[stuck berry]

how did they recieve these community requests perchance

i gotta ask them to add the ability to duplicate save files

[stone herald]

You can

Just go into %appdata and copy paste

Oh console may be an issue though

[stuck berry]

damn

can you do that i play on nintendo

[prisma charm]

i made a big list of stuff the citadel did that fucked over the environment because i hate the citadel and they suck
-used putrified ducts to dispose waste
-waste runs down into what is now bilewater
-waste runs down into part of greymoor, creating sinners road
-taking over the majority of the wisp thicket and turning it into greymoor
-the silk that falls down from the whiteward into greymoor that they collect to reuse
-fucking over the coral area when creating the blasted steps
-the underworks also probably used to be part of the wisp thicket
-whatever the citadel used to be is gone too
-deep docks existing
-the connection between the cauldron in the underworks all the way down to the deep docks
-the exhaust organ
-they probably did something to shellwood, far fields, and hunters march that i forgot about
-whatever bellhart is?? like all those bells were probably made by the citadel and just dumped there or something right???
-part of mount fay is now the slab
-taking stuff from the environment to make the memorium
-mutating wildlife in the memorium
-wiped verdania off the map completely
-also failed to contain verdania in the memorium
-and ofc we have the haunting
-and a bunch of other stuff probably

[stuck berry]

shellwood was taken over by the splinters following nyleth's death which iunno if the citadel caused

[silk dirge]

also idk if the coral was bc citadel it seems to me they were strong enough to hold off the citadel but eventually faded bc nature

[stuck berry]

the memorium was an attempt to make a zoo made from the wildlife they helped endanger which i think is really funny

[prisma charm]

yeah idk much about shellwood

[silk dirge]

also i dont think those pipes are collecting silk from weaver spires

[prisma charm]

i mean what else could those be

[silk dirge]

i think the big pipes are probably how the song was transported to keep gms asleep

they dont connect to weaver spires i think

[prisma charm]

ohhh that actually

makes alot of sense

[silk dirge]

also speaking of pipes can we discuss how fucked the citadels ventilation was

the silk pit of whiteward has a vent connection directly to the underworks paid bench room

[fathom pollen]

I thought hornwt got her tools from pharloom, but now i learned its a sequel not a prequel? So she had them all in the first game then lost them and made them in another kingdom again?

[muted lantern]

well her tools probably got yoinked when they imprisoned her, or she used them up trying to fend them off.

[toxic mulch]

The game explains it at the very beginning,hornet has nothing but her needle at the start of silksong because she's been weakened severely by the rune cage

I'd assume she was caught off guard and like they said,either used up all her hallownest tools in the fight or had them stolen

[lethal burrow]

She didn't have "all" of them she had 1 of them, the only one she had in the first game, which was the spike ball.

And that one she does remake.

[prisma charm]

wasn't she caught at the steel city iirc??

[fathom pollen]

Oh yeah, i think i mistakenly remember her using tacks, rhank you

[toxic mulch]

She should immediately know how to craft that one but eh it's not a huge deal

[toxic mulch]

No that was another weaver

[prisma charm]

steel city dlc when

[toxic mulch]

A choral commandment states hornet was taken from hallownest, something like "retrieve the half weaver from the kingdom of the white wyrm"

[stuck berry]

kind of a miracle the slab guys only had a weaker version of those runes instead

[prisma charm]

what if hornet got her ass beat by THK at the end of hollow knight and that's when they caught her😭

[silk dirge]

lace would clutch up again probably

[toxic mulch]

Has jail% been made into an official category yet? It has to be one 🙏

[silk dirge]

also i just realized how fucked up it is whiteward connects to the area of underworks with a bunch of automatons

they basically just wheeled all the silkflies into there

and probably put them in choruses

[livid ice]

GUYS GREYROOT IS ZOTE'S MOTHER
THANK ME LATER

[toxic mulch]

Zote is the twisted child and it's all a time loop 🙏

[livid ice]

Zotes nail is carved from shell wood in hunter's journal

[stuck berry]

if they introduce time travel to this series

[toxic mulch]

I really hope not

The memories are one thing since nothing in the past actually changes but time travel shouldn't be considered at all

[stuck berry]

if nothing in the past actuallly changes how come the corpses dissappear after hornet traveled back

hornet kills gp and karm in the past and they're dead in the present

[fathom hill]

apparently not since she was ambushed no?

also its been a while since the ending of hk

[narrow flax]

I just beat lost lace

[fathom hill]

congrats!

[narrow flax]

Thanks

[stone herald]

Did you find her

[lethal burrow]

old news

[lethal burrow]

mf coming in here parroting some post they saw on Twitter while we've discussed that here for over a month smh

[spring escarp]

Why some situations let you die in steel soul? Excluding memories I guess.

[echo trellis]

What bug is last judge

[spring escarp]

WAIT

Perhaps first sinner and chakra don't count for stell soul because they are not trying to kill you

!

This would be a extremely clever way to hide lore on mechanics.

[eager spire]

also slavery, for everyone, and religious scamming

[rancid river]

I mean she also RIPS OUT THEIR HEARTS so you know… that’s probably not good for health

[spring escarp]

So, any of you think first sinner doesn't actually try to kill nornet?

[stuck berry]

we heard you the first time.

first sinner is a memory boss hence why you don't get respawned back at the bench

[spring escarp]

How is she a memory boss

[stuck berry]

you're fighting her in her prime the real one is a corpse

[spring escarp]

You don't sleep, you bind her, the statue breaks and she lands

Like no screen transition

to memory world, only after the fight you get one

[stuck berry]

well you don't get respawned back in the bench and you don't lose your steel soul run so

[spring escarp]

I think she literally broke away from inside the statue

[spring escarp]

Perhaps that's because she doesn't try to kill yoy is my point.

Makes more sense than some invisible transition to the dream world

[stuck berry]

idk man she seems very actively aggressive compared to shakra who is explicitly stated to be dueling you

[spring escarp]

Maybe that is just her nature as a pharlid

And she just wants to put us to sleep so she can leave

or maybe she wants to train you

Directly

[limber anvil]

Also one piece of lore I Havant talked about is lace is basically a living mushroom... the way mushrooms are actully structured on a biological level is through strings of mycylium. They are basically strands of thread intertwined together making up a largly hollow stucture which has density.

[spring escarp]

Also iirc the statue of her stays broken after you defeat her? I think? Meanung it happened in real life

[stuck berry]

okay you might have a case

[limber anvil]

That explains laces design atleast.

[spring escarp]

Just because two things are mad eof strands doesn't mean these are the same thing

Spaggheti and cotton are the same thing.

[spring escarp]

Knew it

[stuck berry]

not knew it there's just unfortunately more evidence in your favor

[limber anvil]

Have you ever seem myscilum... its basically like a spiderweb underground.

[spring escarp]

I feel fortunate.

[stuck berry]

just because mycelium looks like a spider's web doesn't mean it is

[spring escarp]

That is what I am saying.

[limber anvil]

Also laces head design is based upon a mushroom

[spring escarp]

No?

You are reaching badly

[rancid river]

…is it though ? Has TC ever said that?

[spring escarp]

Just cause something is roughly mushroom shaped

doesn't mean it is

[limber anvil]

Fair.

[spring escarp]

Like you are extrapolating way too much

[prisma charm]

yeah they did a lot of bad stuff i was just focusing on stuff they did that ruined the environment

[eager spire]

inbreeding as well then, and mass hunting of bell beasts

[spring escarp]

Hunting vell beasts?

[eager spire]

yeah

[prisma charm]

they did WHAT

[spring escarp]

Hm thinking

there are other moments you rrspawn next to something

even if you aren't on a memory

[eager spire]

bell eater seems to have come from memorium imo

[spring escarp]

Pretty sure

[prisma charm]

when did we find that out about bell beasts though i thought it was just the bell eater that did that

[spring escarp]

I just can't recall it but i am sire they exist

[eager spire]

the bell stations are locked for a reason

[prisma charm]

what the fuck did they breed to make that thing

[spring escarp]

I guess it is just so the pilgrims don't try to got he easy way

[eager spire]

bilewater

[prisma charm]

ah, i see.

[spring escarp]

We get info on whg the bellstations are locked tho

Isn't it just like the termina onr

[eager spire]

yeah thats the exact reason

[rancid river]

Isn’t it stated to have lived in the travelways (forget what they’re called lol) and is simply stirred by the… explosive events of act 3 occurring?

[spring escarp]

ventrica stations were closed

[fast surge]

goes so hard actually

[spring escarp]

but that was for safety concerns...

[edgy nebula]

Bell beast loved to play in the snow,
but so did the bell eater

[rancid river]

More like their workers were dying and costing them more money than they could make lol

“Unsanctioned deaths”

[spring escarp]

I don't think it costed them moneu cause they wouldn't waste money on them

just patch them with silk

More like productivity losses.

[fast surge]

no one bred it afaik, it's been around for a long time, probably just a specimen that wandered into Pharloom

[eager spire]

yeah but im pretty sure this is the time line of events
bellways are locked
bell eaters are created
bell eaters are sent to kill bell beasts
one bell beast survives barely

[spring escarp]

We don't see snow at any point tho

[prisma charm]

yeah, i doubt that bell eater is from memorium, especially since it appears that the citadel didn't really want to "preserve" anything if it made them look bad

[spring escarp]

Just ice and dandruff.

[edgy nebula]

im referencing a copypasta

[eager spire]

memorium i say because thats the only place we see great inbreeding for genetic mutations

[spring escarp]

Hey imagine if in dlc we can acess and old bilewater biome preserved on the memorium

Like the pilot installation

[fast surge]

palewater woo

[prisma charm]

palewater

[prisma charm]

great minds think alike

[edgy nebula]

clearwater sweep

[spring escarp]

"My bad we killed the swamp here check this new and better one"

[spring escarp]

Why palewater

[edgy nebula]

being able to talk to groal would be epic

[eager spire]

imagine if we got a dlc showing prime pharloom when it was great

[prisma charm]

bell eater probably wasn't inbred (or bred) though

[spring escarp]

Inverted castle moment.

[edgy nebula]

inbreeding isnt specified, just breeding

[rancid river]

That’s more like what I was getting at, poorly phrased on my part. If enough workers die, the workforce takes a significant hit and so does the rosary supply, expanding of the citadel, etc. Either way it’s definitely not safety concerns that shut down the ventrica…. The Citadel do NOT care about keepin their (low-class) people alive

[fast surge]

"Make Pharloom great again"

[spring escarp]

Also guards arrest this guy, he said pjarloom isn't great

[fast surge]

thanks Karmelita

[spring escarp]

Karmelita implies the existence of Karma

[edgy nebula]

crust king khann is probably one of the strongest mortal bugs ever but we arent ready for that discussion

[spring escarp]

A bigger fat ant queen

[eager spire]

we see some forms of enemies seen rarely through pharloon but yeah ig inbreeding isnt specified

[spring escarp]

I kileld him easily

[eager spire]

bread crust king khann

[prisma charm]

i hope we get dlc that makes us go through memory areas before getting each heart like verdania

[fast surge]

like top 5 probably at least in his domain

outside idk

[edgy nebula]

balance reasons

[spring escarp]

He is just lore strong at best

[rancid river]

YES I keep saying it but I was so upset at how little we got to see of Coral Tower/Prime Karak

[edgy nebula]

literal earthbending, ruled half of pharloom with an iron fist, stood against gms

[spring escarp]

I want a dlc that does everything everyone wants : )

[eager spire]

why just prime of karak what about prime of pharloom

[spring escarp]

More like 20%

[prisma charm]

and i want to see the ants in their prime (and ig shellwood before sister splinter fucked that place up ig)

[edgy nebula]

snail shamans specify half of pharloom

[spring escarp]

You gonna trust them again

Look act 3

And you'll find out the fate of democracies.

[edgy nebula]

caused entirely by lace btw

[prisma charm]

what ever happened to that backer lion village btw

[edgy nebula]

full of lions

[spring escarp]

Isn't that the ant village?

[prisma charm]

ahhhh i see, it all makes sense now.

[spring escarp]

Wait was it fullfilled?

[prisma charm]

ant village?? where bro😭

[spring escarp]

Idk karmelitas lair

[rancid river]

Omg you know what I’m mad we didn’t get to see… that one shell area

[edgy nebula]

pharloom bay?

[prisma charm]

the huh

[spring escarp]

atop the bench

[spring escarp]

wuat area

[rancid river]

Yess I forgot its name

[edgy nebula]

the barnacle area yeah

[spring escarp]

Yeah this one defiently will drop to the left of wormways

[prisma charm]

pharloom bay can EASILY be added in as dlc

[spring escarp]

Wormsways is so boring, so transitional area coded

[prisma charm]

we could also get a fishing minigame👀👀

and unlock a fishing rod ability where we fish all over pharloom to finish a new journal for fish (peak)

[prisma charm]

pharloom bay is connected to bilewater

[spring escarp]

wormways hace pharloom bay enemies

I am like betting the entrance will be on that long corridor there

Also because of the salt water reference

the scientists mentions

[prisma charm]

that's old footage from when wormways and verdania (and maybe pharloom bay) used to be the same place

[spring escarp]

It fits like a con... glove

[spring escarp]

well the enemy was made for pharloom bay

[umbral crescent]

z

[spring escarp]

now it is on a nonsense place

[prisma charm]

but yeah no pharloom bay literally has a map asset in the files where it is directly connected to bilewater

[spring escarp]

it will probably show up in a spot next to its future placement

[prisma charm]

you don't know that😭

[spring escarp]

Irrelevant they change this stuff all the time

[prisma charm]

the craggler was made for verdania and wormways, maybe the little dudes that appear after killing it were repurposed for that instead of being from pharloom bay

[spring escarp]

I bet 2 cents

It will be left of wormways

[prisma charm]

this is IN THE GAME FILES 💔

it also just makes sense geographically

like yeah, the water area should be where all the other water is

[spring escarp]

They can just take off the files

they might have planned that at some point

Or

Maybe wormways was next to it and they moved to the other side of the map

breaking lots of stuff

[prisma charm]

verdania was originally gonna be on top of wormways (at the same point on the map) being one area

before getting split into two

pharloom bay has nothing to do with wormways other than the enemies seen in the trailer getting repurposed for the craggler

[spring escarp]

Guess that is the answer, it used to fit now it doesn't and xylotol just

walked the whole map

Did he say the source of lifeblood was nearby?

[deft crag]

Friends ,may i ask whos stronger lore wise end game between hornet and knight?

[spring escarp]

Otherwise maybe they will add a second shore...

[spring escarp]

Knight probably

Knight could defeat the radiance

which surpassed pale beings

[deft crag]

Some people says "Knight is a full pale being, hornet is not a full pale being" can you explain this by any chance sir?

I don't really understand

[prisma charm]

i mean if we count the weaver queen ending MAYBE hornet wins but like the knight absolutely wins against hornet

[spring escarp]

Well he is a child of the while lady and pale king

So genetically he is essentially just a pale being

[deft crag]

Pale beings are gods or like, just really really strong deities?

[spring escarp]

Pale beings got their ass handed by botj void which the knight is made of and also by the radiance whicht he knighr defeatwd

[stone herald]

Very strong deities, doesn't seem to be anything truly undefeatable except the void so far

[spring escarp]

GMS would need to be exceptional.

[stone herald]

I mean ignoring the void in the knight, they're still a fully fledged pale being who is very good at fighting

[spring escarp]

They are called gods and are god like but not really gods

[prisma charm]

yeahhh hornet would get her ass beat😭

[spring escarp]

The knight also canonically beat jornet twice

[deft crag]

I understand, what about the void?

[spring escarp]

The second fight she said she wouldn't hold back

[deft crag]

How we would classify that entity(?)

[spring escarp]

It is more of a substance

[stone herald]

Hornet DID get her ass beat.
Second fight her dreamnail dialogue reveals that pre voidheart the knight is still REALLY strong

[spring escarp]

Not really an entity

[stone herald]

It's a goop

[spring escarp]

maybe the void is a god now because of void given focus

[stone herald]

It's like the blob from the hit movie the blob

[deft crag]

Ohh i see, so canonically, with the void, knight is the strongest creature we know?

[spring escarp]

But even if that is the case it doesn't have that much focus and its parts retain much independence

[stone herald]

The knight hasn't become ALL of the void, but it's def one of the top players within it

[spiral verge]

https://tenor.com/view/monster-versus-vs-alien-monster-vs-alien-gif-16037253809360562033

[deft crag]

Thats actually really cool man

[stone herald]

The cold war propaganda piece, not the monsters vs aliens blob

[spring escarp]

I said maybe, it could be they just don't have full control of all its parts

[spiral verge]

I know that it wasn't him I just wanted to use that gif

[spring escarp]

Very likely it is the most powerful thing we saw so far yes

[stone herald]

I don't think the voidheart would be enough to get All of the void to fall in line, it's really massive

[spring escarp]

I am talking about the ending of PV

[stone herald]

I mean even without the voidheart the knight is built different

[spring escarp]

Void given focus

[deft crag]

Also do we know the structure of this world by any chance?

[spring escarp]

Not voidheart

[stone herald]

The knight has to actively beat back void tendrils that want to kill hornet though

[spring escarp]

?

[spring escarp]

I adresswd this

[deft crag]

Like, the planet

[spring escarp]

It could be the void but not have full controlve over itseld

[stone herald]

That's post void heart I believe

[spring escarp]

Like independent parts/cells

[deft crag]

When i say this, peoples are geting angry bro 😭
some guy literally crashed out over this

[spring escarp]

void given focus flashes on screen on the silksong ending

[deft crag]

"Hornet is stronger than knight grr!!"

[spiral verge]

Abyss is the bottom of the world iirc

[stone herald]

I didn't get that impression from it personally

The knight really seems to have just shown up at that point

[spring escarp]

Hence why I said maybe

[prisma charm]

also like, isn't the shade lord all of the shades like, as a group, and the knight is just kinda the leader

[spring escarp]

That part os definetly true

[stone herald]

Gameplay wise, fo sure, but the second game kinda has to be harder thf the first

[deft crag]

I don't really think they do have a mind

[spring escarp]

Shades + HK + kight

But who know what else is inside it

[spiral verge]

Kight

[stone herald]

Hollow knight might still be alive and around, we didn't see their shade

[prisma charm]

they do though, the whole point of hollow knight is that there is no hollow knight

[deft crag]

but like, knight is obviously stronger than her, why people are getting angry over this when we say

[spring escarp]

Like, shade lord came to be when the godseekers believed in it

So the godseekees probably saw void as a single things.

[spiral verge]

They can't handle the truth

[prisma charm]

theory that HK beats hornets ass at the end of the game and that's how she gets captured by the citadel while unconscious💔

[spring escarp]

I wouldn't say obviously but very likely

[spiral verge]

Who knows, might be

[spring escarp]

Tbh we still didn't see everything hornet will do

Maybe in dlc we fight void eater the devourer of knights

[stone herald]

The knights got this

[spring escarp]

we do see the HK shade on the ss ending

and the pv ending

No?

[prisma charm]

because the flash of the shade lord over all of the shades kinda signifies that, along with the line for the shadelord statue being "void given focus" kinda makes me think that.

[spring escarp]

ye

[stone herald]

Wasn't that over the knight rather than them all

They have individual wills and the knight didn't need the siblings in godhome

[spiral verge]

I rewatched the SS ending and when hornet was in the abyss unconscious and the Everbloom wilted, we only see the Knight and shades behind him then the screen flashes to the Shade Lord and he pulls hornet out of the Abyss

Didn't see THK's shade

[spring escarp]

So HK is just

fucking around?

Hollow kngiht 3 with HK

[spiral verge]

Maybe, maybe not

[spring escarp]

We made a thrid kingdom to fit him cause is huge as fuck

[stone herald]

The third game is just punch out

[spiral verge]

PV variant or after he got infected and lost his arm?

[stone herald]

THK could probably grow it back

[spring escarp]

Third game is just a straight corridir cause we can't fit platofrms in the screen

[lethal burrow]

why does bell beast have silk heart

[spring escarp]

Means he can't use tools but the nail works just fine

[spring escarp]

Why does the unravelled have one

what even are silk hearts

[lethal burrow]

lots of silk ig

[spring escarp]

Well the bell beats swas stuck on lots of silk too

[lethal burrow]

but then why so much silk near bell beast?

[stone herald]

PVs shade has the arms still so nothing fundamental has happened to them, I think once out of the black egg and able to get some soul the HK just regrows their arm

[spring escarp]

For some reason

[stone herald]

Big fella

[spring escarp]

Can HK even regrow his arm tho

[prisma charm]

it was definitely over all of them

[stone herald]

Why not

[spring escarp]

In my interpretation their pale being shell is a rotten carcass full of void fliid

[stone herald]

It seems like a close up

[spring escarp]

And it cracks when you die

leaving the shade

[prisma charm]

even if it is it's weird for it to flash at the scene of all of the shades instead of just the knight

[fast surge]

probably? it's mostly just void, so whenever he becomes sane again he should be able to repair it

[spring escarp]

Well he could do that but zi think it would be exposed.

More tendril like

[spiral verge]

Soo like PVs attack?

[spring escarp]

Maybe his soul bind hability can grow it back tho

[stone herald]

The shadelord just isn't THAT big
You could argue it flashes over the vessels or it flashes as a cut to just the knight , but based on how close everyone is, the shadelord just wouldn't be big enough to appear like that if it were at the siblijg area

[spring escarp]

But stationary.

[spring escarp]

It is at least larger thant he radisnce

One screen of height

[stone herald]

Focusing can repair the shell by basically manifesting soul into matter, and THKs shade is perfectly two-armed so there's no real limiting factor to THK regrowing it's arm

[stone herald]

It's face isn't 7 shades tall IG

Also the knight and sibling aurafarming like that while hornet is drowning is very funny on the 5th rewatch

[spring escarp]

How do you known that

Maybe binding just heals your like, nornallu

[stone herald]

It's what the knight does

[spring escarp]

We never see the knight damaged physicslly

[stone herald]

As in that's the explanation for being hurt in game

[stone herald]

Definitely cracks since void leaks at 1 mask

[spring escarp]

I mean as in losing body aprts

[fast surge]

seems to be pretty much the same as ours, maybe smaller, except somewhere around when lava starts to appear there's also a massive ocean of void left over by the ancient civilisation

[prisma charm]

i just went to go check the shadelord appears dead center in the middle

[spring escarp]

cracks yes but this could be cured by normal realing

[fast surge]

ye

[stone herald]

Void was probably before that

[spring escarp]

Like if they could fix missing shell

maybe the shades shoild have farmed the void bugs for soul and heal their shells

[prisma charm]

obviously the shadelord here is just meant to be symbolism though

[spring escarp]

Imo the shade lord might be jsut the coalescence of all friendly shades

[stone herald]

It wasn't that in godhome

[spring escarp]

Powred up by beleif

[prisma charm]

"void given focus" is the line the godhome statue has for the shadelord. i think that the void here is all the shades, and that the focus, or leader, is the knight, making the knight the shadelord, but the being we see as the shadelord is all of the shades together.

[stone herald]

Do we know if that how void works

[fast surge]

that's what it forms around, but being called Void given focus sounds like there's more actual void attached too

[stone herald]

Voidheart "unifies the void under the bearers will" seems like it would override the will of the weaker shades

[spring escarp]

perhaps

maybe it is fuzzy

[prisma charm]

so like the knight IS the shadeLORD as they are the leader of the shades, but the physical shadelord we see is all of the shades.

[stone herald]

The game emphasizes that the vessels were their own people, so I don't like the implication that they just fused

[spring escarp]

They might fuse and unfuse on command

Liek for a goal, a company

[stone herald]

That's some power rangers shit

[spring escarp]

sorta

Voidzord

[stone herald]

Why did they go power rangers to aurafarm on drowning hornet

[prisma charm]

fusion HAA

[spring escarp]

thet are all liquid after all

[spring escarp]

tbf that was a flash so probably methaphoric

Or mayve a hivemind

Like the shadelord is a rela entity that comes from the linked individual minds of void

But esch aprt still cna act by itself

Like the internet

[spiral verge]

Stroke ❤️‍🔥 ❤️‍🔥

[spring escarp]

No that's my other hand

[stone herald]

My strongest reason for opposing that stance is that it just didn't LOOK like the shadelord was the vessels combined

To me it really looked like it was just the knight

[spring escarp]

ironclad

Guys it doesn't look like this, everyone can go home.

[prisma charm]

the maggots in hollow knight don't look like maggots

what the FUCK are they

[spring escarp]

Well there are smaller maggots

[stone herald]

Have YOU EVER watched larva

[spring escarp]

makes you think

[stone herald]

The hit show by a Korean studio

[spring escarp]

Also no insect in HK looks right

[stone herald]

Those are muck maggots, which has a funny implication that people are just turbo racist (they are) in HK

[spring escarp]

i mean there are actual races on HK

Like different species

I am just saying the flies deserved it.

[fast surge]

if everyone's racist already, what does that make the mantises?

[spring escarp]

Isolacionists

[stone herald]

Also where did the knight get such an epic nail

[spring escarp]

they don't want to even bother metting other racists to be racists agains them

[prisma charm]

main weapon of hallownest

[spring escarp]

bees deifnetly

[stone herald]

Because the pure nail was the true form oftr old nail, I know it's not literally that, but the nailsmith recognizes potential in it beyond other nails

[spring escarp]

Oh nvm

It was a special nail

[stone herald]

And the knights nail held up for an insane amount of time

[spring escarp]

So i guess he got from pale king

like some standard issue weapon

[stone herald]

Why would pale king give a random vessel a really realy good nail

[prisma charm]

i don't think the knight ever met the pale king

[spring escarp]

doesn't even have a stage called pale whatever

[spring escarp]

not given directly

[spiral verge]

Because he was the one who actually climbed out of Abyss but fell back to if again I guess

[spring escarp]

But the forge guy says he just showed the full potential of knight blade

[spiral verge]

Might be, might be not

[prisma charm]

what if it was a nail at kings pass, like in the ground or something, put there because it's kings pass.

[spring escarp]

Like pretty clear it came from soemthign related to the pale king

[stone herald]

The pale king didn't toss an S tier nail at the knight durng the birthplace cutscene

[fast surge]

could've just been held by some people looting Hallownest and leaving through the wastes while the Knight was returning

[stone herald]

also THK didn't have a nail until they left the abyss

[fast surge]

beat them up in self-defense and took it

[spring escarp]

I think they all got these nails before havign to rise

for the trial

[stone herald]

The hollow knight didn't have one on them when we see it leave

[spring escarp]

And since those were royal, it wa shigh wuality

[prisma charm]

they did not, the only reason the knight did is because it was a memory.

[spring escarp]

check the last stage

[spring escarp]

it doesn't need to be visible in hand or sprite

[prisma charm]

that doesn't change the fact they definitely didn't have nails

[spring escarp]

wellt his nail is definetly pk related

[prisma charm]

like the knight DEFINITELY didn't have monarch wings during the ascension

[spring escarp]

perhaps he got it on the exit of the abyss somehow

[prisma charm]

i think it was in kings pass or something idk

[spring escarp]

Why there

[stone herald]

Y'know what would've been funny

[prisma charm]

that just kinda makes sense to me

[spring escarp]

The nailsmith makes clear that

The nail is special

[fast surge]

yeah, so some scavengers stole it from Ancient basin before the Knight came back to Hallownest and it stole it back

[stone herald]

Maybe the knight followed the trail to the white palace, pretended to be the hollow knight, yoinked a nail then pissed off

[fast surge]

could've

[west lotus]

not impossible imo

[stone herald]

Quite a feat to escape the abyss actually, I imagine the knight can't just leave through populated areas they'd be like "holy shit is that the hollow knight"

[prisma charm]

the vessels escape through deepnest how the FUCK do they get there

do they take the tram

[stone herald]

there's some parts that are really close to the abyss

[spring escarp]

"It's done. The reforging is done.
Your nail is much stronger than it used to be. As strong as it could ever be.
In only your weapon have I seen such potential. Finally, I behold the majesty of a Pure Nail.
To think this moment has come upon me so soon...
...I... I must step outside a moment..."

Only weapon with such potential

It wouldn't just be lying around

[stone herald]

Maybe the knight made the nail

[spiral verge]

Yes, I know I was just saying a theory

[stone herald]

We know hornet and the pale king are expert tinkerers, maybe the knight took after him somewhat too

[spring escarp]

I am like 100% sure it came from the pk arsenal one way or another

maybe it was the old hollow kngiht weapon

[prisma charm]

okay this is a nothing burger he just says that because they upgraded the FUCK out of it with pale ore

[spring escarp]

discsrded as it grew

[spring escarp]

potential

it ws the only that could be made thats trong

[stone herald]

"in only your weapon have I seen such potential"

[prisma charm]

yeah, the current potential it has to deal insane fucking damage after being upgraded

[fast surge]

probably a secret pathway that collapsed recently, between west Abyss and where Nosk was

[stone herald]

maybe it was the knight's maintenance of it? Lesser blades fell to dust, but the knight kept it's sword in decent quality

[spring escarp]

heh idk

It also looks very pale kingly in swirls

[stone herald]

THK's nail looks exactly like the knights nail

[spring escarp]

hornets needle is also hyped to be special and to reveal a hidden strneght

[stone herald]

Like, exactly like it, so I think the same source

[spring escarp]

I don't think it is a coincidence

both weapons are said to be more than meets the eye at the start

[prisma charm]

it was just a normal nail most likely, and the potential comes from it being put on steroids with pale ore, yknow, PALE ore, like the PALE king, which was probably also used on the hollow knights nail.

[spring escarp]

that is why i think the knights nail is the child nail of the HK

And the knight found it laying near the abyss when he left

[stone herald]

Y'know I'm thinking that's not a bad theory

THK probably remembers the knight

[spring escarp]

And that is why it is so strong

Because it was made for the chosen child

[stone herald]

The knight had it really really rough actually

[spring escarp]

well they loked eye contact when one fell but

I don't think he tried to help the knight

I think it was just an abandoned blade

[stone herald]

Like just considering the abyss escape is bad enough, but once youre out that's also awful

[spring escarp]

that is the larger version

Also dilapidated

[stone herald]

It would still be a super high quality piece, I'm leaning towards THK giving it to the knight somehow

[spring escarp]

like ours on the start

[spring escarp]

I think it was qality in virtue of being custom made for the HK

But abandone because he grew

[fast surge]

yeah cause apparently the bees had some really good materials

[stone herald]

Yeah makes sense like that

[prisma charm]

we literally never see the hollow knights nail omg it isn't in the POP cutscene OR the abyss cutscene where are we finding our info

[spring escarp]

hivesteel

[stone herald]

The knight maybe had it's eye on that blade for a bit too

[fast surge]

ik what it's called

[spring escarp]

jaelous mofo

[muted lantern]

Does Shakra ever laugh/tell jokes? I don't remember her doing either

[west lotus]

wait i got called on what did i miss

[fast surge]

more just wondering where they get it

[stone herald]

I'm referring to big HKs nail, which looks like the old nail, and the PVs nail which looks like the upgraded nail too

[stone herald]

Can you blame the knight?

[stone herald]

That whole birthplace stuff was so traumatizing they had to go into the wastes for like a thousand years so they could face the truth

[prisma charm]

yeah, both were probably normal nails that were worn down

[spring escarp]

well they are void so idk how far can they feel stuff, specially when they were young

[prisma charm]

the only reason the nailsmith says our nail has potential is because we upgraded it with tons of pale ore, which they probably also did to the hollow knights nail

[spring escarp]

I don't think that fits

But I can't prove

Like "potential to do damage"

Ehh...

Weird phrasing if true

[stone herald]

The birthplace dreamnail stuff was the knight coming to grips with what happened to it, I think hornet mentions that a few times

Also like, c'mon look at what happened, that's gotta hurt

[spring escarp]

Well that could have just him realizing he is void

[stone herald]

The birthplace dreamnail scene is brutal

[spring escarp]

cause he had amnesia

[prisma charm]

-hollow knight gets normal nail
-pale king upgrades it with pale ore
-pure nail (or whatever it's called i forgot)
-nail wears down back to an old nail
-the knight gets an old nail
-upgrades it with pale ore
-pure nail

[stone herald]

Damn bruh what's this black stuff in me, cool spells I got, why do all these shadows look like me

[spring escarp]

I mean it is weird void attacks him

and then changes his mind

once he sees how he was born

[stone herald]

It changes it's mind because of the voidheart

The charm that lets you control void

[spring escarp]

Yeah, the voidheart seems to me to represent like the kngiht realizing what he is and why he exists

[prisma charm]

coming to terms with what happened

[spring escarp]

Like "oh I am made of that stuff"

[spring escarp]

ye

[stone herald]

At the point of the void heart the knight already knows all this

Probably knows it before entering hallownest

[spring escarp]

does he?

He only know he is made of void when he dies

but canonically he never dies

[prisma charm]

they already knew they were made of void they just didn't come to terms with it yet

[stone herald]

The knight is like 99% void it would be able to tell surely, esp when it leaks

Lemme get the hornet quote out

[spring escarp]

Oh yeah

crucisl emptiness

maybe she explained it to him in buganese more clesrly than the cryptic language we get

[stone herald]

The white lady also tells the knight about it being a vessel

On a side note it's pretty funny how the knight, hornet, and THK are all color coded

Mario and Luigi type shit

[spring escarp]

zote is also blue

symbolizing he is also a protagonist

[stone herald]

The broken vessel is green

[fast surge]

yeah it's not like they only realise they're made of something else upon hopping into the Abyss, it's more that the true nature of Void and PK's plan were unknown until the Voidheart cutscene

[spring escarp]

Oh could be that too

[stone herald]

The knight is basically a thermos flask of void

[spring escarp]

Oh so I am made of cells and carbon

So i should be able to communicate with coal

[stone herald]

You cc communicate with cells

[spring escarp]

Coalmmunication.

If you will.

[stone herald]

Also the birthplace cutscene just doesn't reveal the knight being vod

It's 100% childhood trauma, the knight climbs up and falls back down

No one talks about the knights birth there it's just climbing and being rejected

And the hollow knight speech PK gives but that's not so descriptive

[shell oracle]

This isn't a theory but more like a guess/speculation

But it is that:

Hornet is sexually Insecure idk I came up with it while driving a car and it just makes sense for her to be

[robust wagon]

Sorry wait what are you arguing?

[fading shard]

so what are we discussing

[fading shard]

I guess I could see how you'd think that but I doubt it

[fading shard]

Well there's a lot the birthplace scene reveals but I do agree one of those things would be the trauma the knight posessed

[stone herald]

I'm saying the birthplace is the knight processing trauma,
They're saying it's the knight finding out it's void/it's true nature

[stone herald]

What would the rest of the a lot be

Other than contextual stuff like the PKs voice, the hollow knight, how it went down

[fading shard]

Well it's really the only heinous deed the pale king has done and is the source of both the Pale kings and white ladys guilt

[shell oracle]

Ye it's probably not

[fading shard]

One could mention his deal with Herrah but the consequences of that exchange evaporates the moment we realize the white lady gave her own permission towards it so it can't really be considered cheating

[royal elbow]

The white fragments represent both sides of your parentage. After the birthplace cutscene it transforms into the void heart representing acceptance of the circumstances of your creation.

[muted lantern]

tragic discovery, all the skarr scouts we murk are children

they are called bone_hunter_child in the files

[atomic dirge]

Yeah the journal says theyre skarrs' young

[stone herald]

Thank god there's no generation

No next generation

[pale narwhal]

shes canonically taken many mates and outlived them all

[shell oracle]

Yeah one of the reasons I got this guess was because of that thing in particular she had many mates she outlived them all so she may have gotten insecure idk it's just a guess

[subtle vector]

it looks like the opposite since she mentions it sometimes

wait why are we talking about this

[shell oracle]

Cuz of this

[pale narwhal]

if anything it would have made her cold, unwilling to become emotionally attached to mortal bugs
but not sexually insecure

[shell oracle]

Ok

[shell oracle]

Ye it does but still sexual insecurity doesn't equal not having mates

[subtle vector]

... okay and why do u think she is that though

[shell oracle]

This guess exists because it just seems like she would be NGL

[subtle vector]

disagree

[shell oracle]

Understandable

[hidden crater]

wow I sure wonder who wins this

[toxic mulch]

My understanding was hornet closes herself off from it to save herself the pain but her arc in silksong is about learning to appreciate and care for the people around her more

[rocky lagoon]

I need a little bit of help with get an Eva dialogue, i already did what the wiki saya but don't get, maybe i misunderstood idk :[

[terse warren]

Which one

[molten python]

Which one?

[rocky lagoon]

you guys are faster than the delay time of the server haha

[molten python]

Which part don't you get? The curse? Or Eva?

[terse warren]

Well I assume you already talked to her about crests which makes the dialogue unobtainable then maybe?

[rocky lagoon]

well, it saya that you have to talk to her before she talks about crest, that's the 2nd dialogue, when you have to "aproach" i thinked

i did this:

• Meeting her, don't aproach when she said
• Go back to the bench

[echo trellis]

I just beat steel soul in 4 hours and 14 minutes

[dusk harness]

Mr. Mushroom’s little area in Silksong has similarities to the Fungal Wastes in Hallownest. Is that because he spawns in areas that already have a mushroom-ish area for him to rest in or does he make the mushrooms grow wherever he goes?.

Like there are little spores wherever he goes afterwards so that probably implies the latter

[pulsar python]

It's implied that the area had only appeared recently, so I'd assume the mushrooms popped up with the lore tablet

Hornet seems to think the tablet is a recent development ('So the herald appears here too...')

[dusk harness]

Another thing: WHO WRITES THESE LORE TABLETS? Most of them are pretty self explanatory, if not plausible. But like… who wrote the Passing of an Age lore tablet? Mr. Mushroom himself? He doesn’t have hands! And the tablet is written in glowing light anyway not sure you can pick up a pen like that at your local general store

[errant mica]

he did it using spores ig

[pulsar python]

I think the passing of the age tablet is something that follows him when he changes kingdoms, because it writes about him in third person. It probably is just magic like that and changes it's text to his exact locations

[dusk harness]

I may never get over the fact that Hornet: knowing who Mr. Mushroom is, acting like she’s talked to him a bunch of times and him straight up recognizing her at the end all implies when Hornet was patrolling Hallownest she and Mr. Mushroom would just talk like old buddies. Like they were friends enough to recognize each other immediately. He was probably one of her only friends that could keep up with her lifespan before the Knight sent him away having fulfilled his purpose

[errant mica]

i get the vibe that he was never really.... coherent enough to really be her friend. its interesting though how much respect she holds for him

what did she call him? envoy? harbinger? something like that

[pulsar python]

I think Mr Mushroom was dormant in Hallownest

It was doomed, but change was also coming soon into the future. He had a reason to stay. It's also possible the fungal wastes were just a good environment for him to hibernate

[errant mica]

no, herald

thats the word i was looking for

[pulsar python]

Hornet also knows Shroom without the charm, meaning she's either interacted with a tablet or Mr Mushroom himself. Unless the Mushrooms in Fungal wastes spoke the same language before Hallownest's fall

[errant mica]

was he hibernating? the place we find him in silksong has the exact same type of mushrooms that the fungal wastes did. i think he was born of the fungal wastes in some way, or a different fungal area that he spread to hallownest

[errant mica]

i like to think she just took the time to learn mushroom lol

[pulsar python]

He does have the same hat as the fungal wastes shrooms, but he seems to be indifferent on the wastes themselves

Like he doesn't have any attachment

[errant mica]

FOR REFERENCE:
M: ...Oh. Wyrm child. No surprise it’s you who meets me here. Following me are you? Or calling me? It is true I would not have sought the lands below if not for your grand actions within them. But now, having journeyed their breadth, what singular sights I beheld... Flaming lakes, tangled woods, caves consumed by sand and frost...Remarkable things all, though given their void claimed state it seems you and I may be the last to hold those memories.
H:I cannot allow that outcome, Herald. I act now to save that place, both for myself and for those bugs still alive within. As one who has seen so much, tell me simply, do you believe my efforts in vain?
M: Me? Certainly you can ask, but I cannot provide good answer. I’ve no mind for outcomes. Always my vision is too clouded by the present.Only the journey... the now. For myself, that is the purpose, and as far as my sight can see.If any other could come to understand that state, Wyrm child, I suspect it may be you... Though maybe not yet, not this present, hmmm? Maybe in a future far, when your actions might hail me so again? Alas, from these quaking caves it is past time I made my swift exit. Ours each may be long and winding roads, but I hope you too come to know the many joys upon the path...

hes like some... wise oracle. it makes a bit of sense considering he seems to experience time non-linearly (not this present)

[pulsar python]

He's speaking to someone who's clearly not there. He either lives non-linearly and exists in multiple places at once, or he has access to a different plane of existence, like the dream world

[cobalt coyote]

Hes a mooshrom, hes always high on himself

[errant mica]

he's tripping absolute balls /j

[pulsar python]

Mr Mushroom tweaking off the spore pack

[cobalt coyote]

The knight needs to get high enough to understand him and hornet is always high too

[pulsar python]

Hornet is a recovering lifeblood junkie, she's taking spores to readjust

[errant mica]

proud of her ❤️

[stone herald]

I think that learning spore language was just part of her eduction

The knight unfortunately received no education most likely and has to use spore shroom to translate

Or maybe hornet just has a sneaky spore shroom on at all times

But she doesn't focus, she binds so it doesn't activate

[cobalt coyote]

Also what even is zote

Is he a vessel? He looks Like one but only one to talk

[pulsar python]

Unironically likely related to greyroot

[slow olive]

Who couldve taught her the shroom language

White lady perhaps?

[pulsar python]

White lady, Vespa or Monomon

[edgy barn]

Zote is not a child of the pale king. His shell is grey and not white.

[slow olive]

Monomon i doubt since she was put to sleep along with herrah so im assuming hornet didnt get a lot of time to spend with her as well

[stone herald]

What's the connection other than shellwood

[slow olive]

Thats it i think

[pulsar python]

There's a lot of downtime between hornet's birth and the dreamers being put to bed, it's possible she could have gotten taught at a young age

[stone herald]

Come on

Maybe it's called shellwood because it grows shellwood

[edgy barn]

White Lady is the most likely as the fungal wastes were part of her kingdom. There is no reason to think Vespa would know that language.

[stone herald]

Or maybe it's called shellwood because it's grown in shellwood

[slow olive]

Red memory doesnt make it seem like there was a lot of downtime tho, hornet could barely remember her mother's face

[cobalt coyote]

Or maybe its called shellwood because it Has both Shells and wood

[stone herald]

Yeah maybe it's just a fairly generic name

[stone herald]

It's really sad how hornet probably spent ages in an abandoned kingdom, just returning to deepnest to see her mom sometimes

[edgy barn]

We know there is wood in places outside Shellwood because the stickbugs mimic wood yet aren't shellwood natives.

[stone herald]

With that In mind the fact that she gets such charger development in silksong makes a lot of sense, even though she's super old

Directly what the mask maker said about how her kind develops unevenly too

[slow olive]

Yea its pretty tragic

[stone herald]

Probably another big part of why she's so harsh on the vessels

Though she does need to kill them as part of her job

[slow olive]

Gotta make sure the vessel is skilled enough

[stone herald]

Idk if it's just me but I think silksong really increased hornets importance and characterisation inthe whole narrative of HK to me

[timber kettle]

I didn't understand the ending

[pulsar python]

Grey Prince zote
The only other being who's a root is the White Lady, who's known for producing the vessels (who are like Zote but bright white)

There's also something reasonable for what Zote would be a vessel FOR (twisted bud seems to be a way for Greyroot to rebirth herself by parasitising others)

[stone herald]

I mean yeah duh ofc getting a bigger game around her did that, but it retroactively changed my perspective on hollow knight

[pulsar python]

He also talks about running away from his mother at birth (never trust mothers)

[stone herald]

Grey prince is just brettas fanfiction of zote though, so I don't think it ties in

[edgy barn]

Zote also talks a lot about his father.

[stone herald]

Zote doesnt show even a hint of menace throughout though, and you can't claim it's a facade since he dies to the vengefly king

[edgy barn]

His father is much more important to him that his mother, in fact.

[stone herald]

What about it

[timber kettle]

Like after u defeat grandmother slik nothing changes pharloom is still the same (and I don't know anything about the whole act 3 thing i completed the game without any spoilers)

[stone herald]

You do know act 3 exists though

Even outside of lore reasons go do that it's super fun and it's the best part of the game frankly

[stone herald]

Basically hornet here gives into the part of her that wants to dominate, and she binds GMS

Hornets half wyrm and half weaver, both are inherently very bossy

By binding GMS to herself she basically fully succumbs to this dominating side of herself and becomes the new GMS; controller of pharloom

[edgy barn]

pharloom*

[stone herald]

Hence nothing really changes, except there being an even stronger higher being

Also as a side note

I thought pharloom meant far away and looming

But it probably also means loom as in fabric

[timber kettle]

What I expected was hornet frees pharloom from the curse of gms

[pulsar python]

Hornet physically can't stop herself, she has a weaver desire to take control, and a Pale being desire to spread her influence

[ebon silo]

@edgy barn yo gurt I need info does the shade lord already exist and that in ETV the knight simply merged with the shade lord?

Or does the knight become the shade lord

[pulsar python]

She doesn't WANT too, it's a natural impulse

[ebon silo]

Like a particularly new entity

[stone herald]

Well you know there's more to the game, see what else you can do

[stone herald]

Knight probably becomes the shade lord

[ebon silo]

Probably?

[stone herald]

I'm hedging my bets in case someone else has counter evidence, I myself am very sure

[timber kettle]

Also at blasted steps u can like go back to where hornet came from can you like go back after u do the ending

[stone herald]

The voidheart says "unites the void under the bearers will" not "make the bearer into a preexisting monster"

[stone herald]

Do you really want me to answer that

[slow olive]

Basing it on the sister of the void ending the knight seems to have integrated the shade lord as an aspect of itself

[edgy barn]

No, Shade Lord did not exist aready. The "corpse" you get shade cloak from has dream nail dialogue that changes depending on wether or not the Knight has optained Void Heart.

Before: "Void...Power...Without Unity"
After: "Lord of Shades"

[stone herald]

C'mon we got someone who hasn't finished the ending here

Though it's kinda on them

Given the discussion

[slow olive]

Wha but this is the lore channel

[timber kettle]

Can she return or not

[stone herald]

@timber kettle GTFO the chat now

[timber kettle]

😨

[stone herald]

You can't go out, you have unfinished business

Also if you go back to before beating GMS it's not like she's retroactively beaten

[edgy barn]

Void Heart unifies the abyss under the will of its bearer. Before it was formed, the Void was just desunified forced acting wildly. The Knight becomes the Lord of Shades after getting Void Heart and now all of the void's power can be focused for a single goal.

[ebon silo]

@edgy barn
The corpse isn't all knowing, it only sees how "hollow" you are
The void heart allows the knight to release the shade lord in EtV, but it still has been a thing down in the void, just not in a physical form until then

The corpse would have the same reaction if the entire void had dream nailed it at the beginning of the game

This was what he said lol?

check #sk-discussion

[vestal swan]

What corpse???

[stone herald]

The one in the abyss

[vestal swan]

Ah soupboy

[unreal estuary]

Except that's likely not the case for EtV and that isn't what void heart does. The knight is the Shade Lord once it gets void heart, and in DNM it appears as its shade because that's what it looks like as Void Given Form. It looks the way it does in EtV because it's been attuned by Godseeker, just like Absolute Radiance and Pure Vessel

[vestal swan]

What is being argued here? Does somebody think the shade Lord existed before or something

Because we have three things telling us it didn't

[unreal estuary]

I think so yeah

[silver spire]

the shade lord as in TK with voidheart/ or void given focus

[vestal swan]

Those are all basically the same thing, the different names and one of those names being a file name that technically not canon confuse people for some reason.
All of them are TK
The slightly bigger shade, the giant monster, the one that the name belongs to, they are all TK with voidheart

[slow olive]

Someone was arguing based on a cutscene where the void roars as all the vessels look up at radiance as evidence that the shade lord existed before the knight

At least i think that was the argument

Apparently the file name for that roar had shade lord in it or smth

[vestal swan]

I don't know why that would be the case we don't see the shadelord?
This just takes the Batman logic and that's all you need, do we ever see them in the same room together

[simple hedge]

Interesting. The void seems to have some type of will, and I think it's exclusive from the shade lord, so I think they're wrong personally

[vestal swan]

The void itself does have a will, but HKs void was put under control of the void heart and obeys TK

[unreal estuary]

Void has a natural drive to consume and destroy, but is still 'power without unity' prior to TK's acceptance of Void Heart

[simple hedge]

Which allowed it to gain form and focus ofc

[vestal swan]

And then possibly Pharlooms at the end

[slow olive]

Thats my thought too anyways, i always thought the knight BECOMES the shade lord

[vestal swan]

They do it's not really debatable

I don't know what this other person was cooking

Especially with the ending cutscenes of the sequel

[unreal estuary]

I guess the theory there would be that Shade Lord always existed, TK just sort of took command

[vestal swan]

No....

[unreal estuary]

No I agree it's dumb but its the only way to explain that theory

[simple hedge]

Which is supposedly possible, but it's stupid unlikely. The Voidheart gave form and focus to the void, allowing it to take the form of the shade lord

[vestal swan]

All the statements about it not being unified wouldn't make sense

It's not unlikely it's impossible given everything we know

[unreal estuary]

Well there's also the fact that at this point the Void has consumed two (potentially 3) pale beings, who given the Radiance's dream nail dialogue and the lore tablet in the white palace, appear to be enemies with each other. Maybe the Void could not be unified until a Pale Being was consumed by Void and surpassed it (and yes the Knight is likely a Pale Being because it's the pure child of two pale beings and Void, Hornet's only half Pale Being and she still calls herself one)

A little unrelated side theory but maybe the Void has been altered in some way thanks to the Pale King's experimentation

[vestal swan]

Huh???

Who did it consume

[unreal estuary]

The Knight

[vestal swan]

Uhhh no

[unreal estuary]

And all the Vessels kind of, it took their shells I think

[slow olive]

I dunno about the knight being a pale being tho

They're made of void arent they

[unreal estuary]

Or am I wrong

[vestal swan]

The corpse is definitely pale but the creature they would have been didn't get to live

[unreal estuary]

I am not talking about the corpse, I'm talking about The Knight being a pale being who united the Void, that combination may have been the only way to create something like the Shade Lord

And while yes its been altered by the void, it's still the child of a Wyrm who sought to unite bugs under its will, of course it would unite the Void

[vestal swan]

That pale being is dead, but the unique combination of circumstances is what allowed the voidheart to be created. Not the fact that it was a pale child though

[stone herald]

The king's soul was crucial though, and it's unlikely that a non-pale corpse could host the void

[vestal swan]

Pale has nothing to do with it?

[stone herald]

The knight still inherits a control over soul, presumably s few things from the white lady too, but hard to see

The pale being in the knight isn't fully dead or irrelevant

[vestal swan]

Just because TK is pale does not mean that that was the reason that they succeeded at these things, false equivalence or something

[vestal swan]

Yes the vessel is a dead body

[stone herald]

Oh I see what you mean

[slow olive]

If anything the knight succeeded through sheer will and determination

[vestal swan]

Is actually just a really big string of luck tbh

[stone herald]

I misread, I thought you meant that the knight could have been an ordinary bug as well

[stone herald]

Well shit look how many vessels were made

[vestal swan]

The fact that the king soul was recoverable, the fact that they got saved by a moth, the fact that they were hit with a memory whiplash of the beacon which allowed the birthplace to be a revelation worthy of creating the void heart charm

[stone herald]

The pale kings plan of "make a bajillion and hope one works" wasn't a bad one

[vestal swan]

He wasn't planning on one to come back and clean up the dead kingdom

[stone herald]

True, but the concept of rolling the dice a ton worked out

Also on a side note, the presence of the knight just in the world of hallownest makes it s lot less scary IMO

the void isn't such an uncontrollable threat anymore, there's a relatively friendly fellow in there

Assuming the knight wants to help people

[vestal swan]

Huh? Oh that

Well we see throughout the game that they are pretty kind and do a lot of things just to help others out

The nice void

[stone herald]

Yeah, that's a pretty good thing to have In a world where a bunch of dipshits keep messing with the void

[vestal swan]

They also like have honor when they fight the mantises and they spare zote in the coliseum etc

I wonder if the steel city will actually be mad at TK for existing

[stone herald]

The vessel program also left a possibly triple or at least double digits of higher being- void hybrids just running around

The knight can't have been the only one to escape hallownest

Though it probably gets harder the higher up you go, and nosk was eating good

[slow olive]

Nosk's nest, the vessel hornet killed in greenpath, and the lost kin definitely shows a good number of vessels escaped hollownest

[stone herald]

I hope they're doing well

[vestal swan]

Nosk displayed its kills and save them for later so it's not really that a bunch of them went through there compared to the rest, it's just that nosk killed that many

They could have fallen in acid been eaten by something bigger got all the way out and died somewhere else etc

[stone herald]

Why did nosk even do that

[vestal swan]

Nosk things

[stone herald]

Nosk is a dick

[vestal swan]

Nosk is just hungry

It's basically a beast with psychic abilities, nothing suggests it's a higher thought creature

I mean they could technically just be a sociopath choosing to live like a caveman, but nothing suggests that

[slow olive]

A beast using imitation to lure stuff

Its freaky that it knows how to lure the knight in tho

[frosty gate]

Displacer Beasts dnd

[vestal swan]

I was about to ask you what the fuck is a displacer and when did it get dream nail dialogue

I'm not awake enough

[frosty gate]

It probably doesn't even have to know honestly, it might just be a psychological trick.
The Knight seems to be attracted to the past? Idk im assuming too much shit

The Knight does seem to be attracted by its past though

[vestal swan]

That tends to happen when you have amnesia

[slow olive]

Nosk seems to be aware of hornet's relation to the knight

[vestal swan]

Yeah it does have some actual psychic probing abilities

[slow olive]

Or just knows that hornet is significant to it

Psycho Nosk

[devout echo]

Ok so I have a question or rather just like maybe that’s where we’re All at, Hera knew that pharloom was fd and that’s why she asked PK to have a kid w her, cos she hoped a weaver god child would save her kingdom, so we do, but now what

[vestal swan]

Wait what

[devout echo]

Everyone lives happily ever after?

[vestal swan]

Does she say something like that in the red memory?

[vestal swan]

Kingdom is pretty destroyed but Sherma is there running things now hopefully for the better

(he's totally going to make everybody worship hornet)