sk-lore

[whole juniper]

It probably isn’t hard to remember since they’re mostly the only ones he’s seen for a while

[lapis geode]

So GMS disaprove both Lace & Phantom?
In fact, Idk if Phantom have any lore besides the tube where I play needolin.
The "Sister... why us?" sounds like a daughter being disappointed by her own existence.

[modest coyote]

I don’t think we have ever seen a character enjoy anything more than GMS enjoys slavery

[whole juniper]

He’s spends his days wallowing in shit so his memory isn’t being used up or anything

[modest coyote]

Yea they’re basically tools

[silk dirge]

i wonder what makes a higher being evil or good in the world of hk like for example unn seems like a pretty good higher being who has literally not done anything wrong and then on the other side you have gms who is like extremely evil

[silver spire]

ohhhh, so the pilgrimage is the holy route and thats why all pilgrims follow that path. in that case, are the sinners pilgrims who gave up?

[limpid summit]

He literally has lived in shit for years

[modest coyote]

Spiders are evil in Australia

[edgy barn]

I don't think everybody who reaches the gates fights the Last Judge

[limpid summit]

When was the last time he saw Dryya

[lapis geode]

DAMnnnn..
Just ask: how long do you guys think Act III is?

[modest coyote]

Its called a judge after all

[whole juniper]

When was the last time he saw normal bugs

[silk dirge]

real nosk probably happened after a plate sized spider crawled into team cherrys office

[covert tusk]

Well either way there’s a clear path to the citadel and a clear phantom waiting to slaughter those who didn’t get the memo

[modest coyote]

I think last judge is probably exceptionally cruel but I don’t think it literally kills everyone

[silver spire]

uhhh, it doesnt look THAT long, since ive already gotten to the three dreamers quest of act 3

[edgy barn]

Yeah, you only fight it if you are judged unworthy

[silk dirge]

ive seen pictures of australian spiders and if i saw one of those in my house im legit moving out

[covert tusk]

Presumably, there’s also just the people who live there casually (Like Groal or those two guys in Sinners Road or Styx)

[silver spire]

which apparently is everyone

[modest coyote]

I mean from what we have seen they’re fairly merciless

[lapis geode]

I hope it's longer than ACT II cause after Mount Fay & Groal, nothing makes me
hard again...
Except the first 1 hour of GMS. But after I learnt her moveset, and some attempts, she's doable

[lapis geode]

NooOOooOo

[foggy fractal]

like 33% of the game maybe ?
I think are divided pretty equally but act 2 is probably bigger than the other two so

maybe 25% ish ?

[edgy barn]

There are many pilgrims inside the citadel when Hornet arrives

[broken parcel]

Isn't Act III basically ||GMS trying to protect Lace and destroying Pharloom in the process?||

[whole juniper]

Act 2 is huge

[silver spire]

please censor gr*al, this guys given me literal migraines from how aids his fight is

[silk dirge]

im sad silksong didnt have any like nosk type encounter tho i guess it would really work again bc everyone already knows it

[whole juniper]

Yes

[silver spire]

like hes worse than m*koth

[modest coyote]

my favourite part is if you’re lucky enough to be judged worthy by last judge you end up rewarded with automated slavery

[whole juniper]

That’s a stretch z

[modest coyote]

Isn’t that lovely?

[lapis geode]

Glad didn't look at that.

[broken parcel]

Definitely not just a tool then

[modest coyote]

Your reward is permanent slavery

[silk dirge]

how did pilgrims end up in choral chambers tho

[silver spire]

yea p much, looks like it

[covert tusk]

When isn’t GMS trying to destroy Pharloom LMAO
||But also yeah she’s trying as hard as she can to save Lace’s life which causes void ripple effects ||

[silk dirge]

im curious about that

[sacred heath]

I doubt TC would make it as simple as “witch crest now counts for the ending, go crazy” but i wish they did

[edgy barn]

I doubt they all got in through the exhaust organ, and they definetly couldn't have beaten the Last Judge to get in

[modest coyote]

They seem to be able to power through it

[covert tusk]

GROAL THE GREAT GROAL THE GREAT GROAL THE GREAT GROAL THE

[modest coyote]

I don’t really understand it

[whole juniper]

Stop

[silver spire]

AAAAAAAAA

[modest coyote]

Groal has cool lore tbh

[silk dirge]

i feel like last judge actually judged and the elevator went down for pilgrims who werent worthy enough and went up for those worthy enough

[sacred heath]

maybe the Judge just decided they were worthy

[whole juniper]

Groal the bitch

[silk dirge]

kinda like a heaven or hell thing

[silver spire]

what lore 😭 hes just a fatass frog or smth

[naive talon]

after the whiteward quest, does Sherma move anywhere else

[edgy barn]

That's what I am saying

[covert night]

he uses soul i think

[modest coyote]

Groal lore is that the citadel funneled their sewage onto bilewayer

[lapis geode]

At least Phantom rewards you with cool fight.
I 'accidentally' use triple hit combos of dashing and 2 slashes with Wanderer, then get parry.

SHe's hot as fuck in fight, gives abiity, and easy route to Citadel.
But Last Judge basically said: "WE BOTH DIEEE!" and poof...

[silk dirge]

hes angry at the citadel bc they messed up bilewater

[whole juniper]

He’s a fatass frog with energy beams for no clear reason

[edgy barn]

Last Judge does not kill everyone

[silk dirge]

bilewater used to look like the lake fleatopia is by

[modest coyote]

And so he’s SUPER PISSED OFF that they dump metric tons of shit and piss on him all day

[silver spire]

so basically garmond and zaza but fatter

[lapis geode]

...WHAT??!?!

[silk dirge]

and then the citadel fucked it up

[limpid summit]

Groal lore is that he basically lived in Section 8 of the citadel with the skilkins and they poured all their shit and maggots into his face

[covert tusk]

He ate a shaman and gained soul abilities, and fights the citadel due to their pollution of Bilewater via the putrid ducts (it’s why I think Bilewater and Sinners Road have bad water, it stems from the ducts)

[whole juniper]

So he eats someone unrelated to the incident

[sacred heath]

the first time I saw his fireball i was shouting “WHAT THE FUCK WHAT THE FUCK HOW DID YOU DO THAT WHAT THE FU”
and then that hunter’s journal entry sent me into psychosis

[modest coyote]

He’s a frog

[silk dirge]

its not confirmed but it would make a lot of sense

[lapis geode]

HOWWWWWWW

[modest coyote]

That’s just his diet

[whole juniper]

LMFAO

[modest coyote]

I mean look at the map design

[silk dirge]

they dumped all their waste

[lapis geode]

Idk Citadel shit so much

[silver spire]

i hate bilewater with a passion, im never going back there ever again

[vivid marsh]

I love gay bugs 👍

[modest coyote]

You have vile ducts directly above bilewayer

[silver spire]

also what's the deal with verdania

[covert tusk]

Genocide.

[silk dirge]

citadel was homophobic

[modest coyote]

Citadel hates everyone

[silver spire]

damn, what

[edgy barn]

GMS messed them up

[silver spire]

what happened to the- oh

[modest coyote]

GMS is very very very evil

[lapis geode]

Don't know...
I only got spoiled that it's an area where you got in ACT III

[modest coyote]

GMS is basically spider Hitler with abandonment complex

[silver spire]

wait then how did clover dancer souls get into the cogwork dancers

[covert tusk]

The Citadel made a deal with the Green Prince’s dual ruler and lover, taking him and splitting his soul in half to create the Cogwork Dancers, so that they wouldn’t touch Verdania

The citadel did this and then destroyed Verdania anyway to the point where it’s completely grey and a fraction of its size

[modest coyote]

A mixture of soul magic and GayI

[silk dirge]

theres a verdania section in the memorium whats up with that

[silver spire]

oh thats crazy

[vivid marsh]

But also kind of spider Genghis Khan with the amount of children she had

[lapis geode]

I thought Green Prince from Verdania and
He's basically narcistic and fell in love with someone similar to himself...

What's the deal with Citadel here?

[silver spire]

oh TRUE, i didnt even notice that

[modest coyote]

They’re not biological children

[naive talon]

https://tenor.com/view/hnnng-heart-attack-heart-attack-meme-oof-ow-gif-24467984

[covert night]

memorium is literally a slave zoo

[lapis geode]

Huh?

[naive talon]

those clogwork dancer bosses make me cry

[silver spire]

quite literally

[silver spire]

DOWN WITH THE CLANKAS BOIS

[modest coyote]

Weavers are biological unrelated bugs who she gave intelligence, and lace and phantom are manufactured not born

[covert tusk]

Isn’t there a message in the memorium saying Verdania couldn’t be preserved? Plus the enemies in Lost Verdania can only be found there and not the memorium

It’s LOST Verdania for a reason

[silk dirge]

ok but memorium has the giant fluffy moss guys hornet complains have spikes

[lapis geode]

What is this quest?

[whole juniper]

NOO

[modest coyote]

I VERY MUCH suspect that GMS has a complex cause she’s infertile or smth

[naive talon]

the clogwork dancers are robots, yes, but not all robots are clankers

[edgy barn]

The memorium is meant to preserve copies of the enviroments of Pharloom so that they are not forgotten

[modest coyote]

She can’t have children of her own so she has a complex about making children

[silver spire]

ITS MR MUSHROOMMMMMMMMM

[silk dirge]

mister mushroom

[whole juniper]

MUSHROOM

[vivid marsh]

I'd still consider them her children

[modest coyote]

She probably chose the weavers because they’re spiders like herself

[edgy barn]

But when it comes to Verdania, they uhh, failed.

[modest coyote]

“She called us daughters… she lied”

[lapis geode]

KNEW ITTTTT
I know the pattern of it anywhere.
Those bastards can't fool me..

[silk dirge]

i mean as hornet says many times in hunters journal they could never preserve such environments artificially

[lapis geode]

Verdania: expected to be forgotten.
Basically the way Citadel say..

"Lol...lmaoo"

[covert tusk]

That much is clear with the difference between the sands of karak and the coral tower

[lapis geode]

At least they got one stag beatle.

[silk dirge]

honestly i loved reading hornets journal entries much more than the hunter in hk

[modest coyote]

The only thing GMS preserves is the caste system, Gestapo and slavery

[silver spire]

i still havent been to the coral tower, but shakra says that their power rivals that of the citadel

so it seems like the lands of pharlooms are composed of a TON of factions;

[covert tusk]

“Hey we gentrified and stole one of Verdania’s Princes for our iconography, do we do anything for them in return?”
“Nah, fuck em”

[silk dirge]

i love reading what my actual character is thinking and not some random dude who likes to fake out that hes a boss

[modest coyote]

GMS is comically evil

[lapis geode]

GMS: "I ain't gay....fuck 'em"

[naive talon]

so the citadel was just as bad if not worse than city of tears in ervery way?

[silver spire]

• weavers and GMS
• coral tower and whatever resides in there
• verdania and the prince
• ants in hunter's march
• the v o i d

[covert tusk]

Verdania is like green path so no, the citadel just used their own tech and mechanized one of the clover dancers to become both cogwork dancers

[edgy barn]

Going to Coral Tower and realizing those small crabs were what the huge crabs from the memorium had com from was a small but powerful moment

[naive talon]

in lore i mean

[silk dirge]

city of tears was not bad at all

there was a class divide but it was nowhere near as bad

[modest coyote]

Way worse

The citadel invented magic robots and used them to make slavery more efficient

[neat sandal]

isn't the prince volunteer to that for citadel leave his cave alone?

[lapis geode]

If Radiance not fuck Hallownest...
I think PK Kingdom will last eternally.

[silver spire]

citadel is jsut cricked at this point

[covert tusk]

The city of tears had like one bad district and cannibalism when the world was ending for them, and even the bad district was also due to a world ending disease for them

The citadel WAS the world ending threat for half of their areas

[modest coyote]

The citadel literally have a slavery funnel

[whole hawk]

Hmmmm. You forgetting your sibling, Hornet?

[lapis geode]

WAIT.
I thought GMS that comes up with that and not the citizens?

[silver spire]

when did the pilgrimage begin

[lapis geode]

Is that on Steel soul only?

[modest coyote]

Hard to tell which is which but I view it as continuation

[limpid summit]

There’s two ways to interpret this

[covert tusk]

Yeah I’m just exaggerating, the gentrification part not so much since the only remaining Verdania element in Pharloom besides the Green Prince himself are the Cogwork Dancers, very Citadel machines

[lapis geode]

Then I can't forgive both.
Poor Loam

[limpid summit]

Either she just means in the context of normal dudes messing around with void or that she hasn’t seen TK do its thing (and thus EtV is canon)

[modest coyote]

Literally mega automatic slavery

[silk dirge]

also is it just me or do the flying dudes in underworks remind you a lot of the guards who yell RAVA in city of tears

[limpid summit]

I believe the latter but I’m not gonna force you

[lapis geode]

Anyway, is upgrading the hunter crest one more time useful?

[modest coyote]

They also have a gulag system

[lapis geode]

....the WHAT?!!
Where???

[elder prism]

Is there any site/doc for comprehensive Silksong lore?

[silver spire]

yk i really wanted more lore on the void, and now i have it

wait guys, do you think the SNAIL shamans are the ones from the ancient civ

[modest coyote]

Like they have a comically cruel prison system in the frigid cold

[silk dirge]

one prison isnt really a "gulag system" but i get what you mean

[covert tusk]

The Slab
Where the prison guards are also prisoners since they’re a Slave species

[lapis geode]

We still waitin Mossbag to sum them up.
No definitive lore till that

[modest coyote]

I mean relative to the size of the citadel it’s massive

Consider a prison the size of California plus Texas

That would be pretty crazy

[lapis geode]

I see...
Poor First Weaver

[edgy barn]

Eh, the population of the Slab is actually quite low for its size

[modest coyote]

Cause they died?

[edgy barn]

There are like, 5 prisoners in the whole thing?

[silver spire]

cuz think about it, they have the black bodies which isnt much, but then when you factor in the three snail shamans in silksong that not only know about a way to the abyss, but also can manipulate void, appear to like it/worship it, and use it to trap GMS

[modest coyote]

The prisoners have mostly died lol

[silver spire]

and seem indifferent to the sufferings of pharloom from the void's thread

[silk dirge]

i love how hornet just rips the map off some dudes stomach

[modest coyote]

Many of the lore tablets say “penitence: death”

[edgy barn]

...yeah good point

[modest coyote]

They execute most of the prisoners

[silver spire]

they might be the ancient civ from hallownest im ngl

[modest coyote]

Or atleast starve them to death

[spark valve]

one of the favored methods of absolution is by swallowing

[modest coyote]

First sinner is different because her sin is “so bad” she’s not even allowed to die

She isn’t allowed to kill herself

[covert tusk]

So THATS why the Broodmother is fat lmao

[modest coyote]

OMG

they’re feeding people to the fucking broodmotjer

😭

[silk dirge]

gruz mother would beat up broodmother easily

[modest coyote]

comically evil society

[covert tusk]

She needs energy to push out more slave guards, duhhhhh, it’s the only true Citadel method

[silk dirge]

i like how gruz mother got two bosses in silksong

she got broodmother and s*vage beastfly

[graceful grail]

So, Hollownest never Recovered from the Radiance???

[covert night]

top 2 worst bosses btw

[modest coyote]

I mean we play in a post apocalyptic world in hollowknight

[edgy barn]

I would actually argue that the other Gruz Mother equivalent is Moss Mother

[silk dirge]

no, the point of hk is to let a dead kingdom rest in peace

the point of silksong is to try to save a dying kingdom

[graceful grail]

Yeah, but i thought the husks would be freed, but Hornet told lace in The abbyss the kingdom was gone

[edgy barn]

The husks are dead

[silver spire]

NO lmao, hollow knight is just our little guy preserving a dead kingdom and to let it RIP

[graceful grail]

He is preserving zombie bugs

[modest coyote]

“Mad matriarch of the Slab rarely seen outside her warren. From her all jailers are born and bred.”

[silk dirge]

thats why i hope hornet stays in pharloom in her bellhome after the game

[silver spire]

pharloom needs to be saved, first from an 1800s stereotypical white slave owner, then from her dads obsession

[modest coyote]

So broodmotjer gives birth to the jailers and eats the jailed

[silk dirge]

why the fuck would she return to hallownest

[modest coyote]

😭

Insane insane insane

[edgy barn]

I mean it depends

[silver spire]

"but as always child, i remain a daughter of hallownest"

[modest coyote]

She gives birth to jailers who give her food (the jail)

[queen idol]

has anyone figured out what bilewater actually is? like why is it just a shithole in the middle of the map where everyone talks about taking shells and hating and stuff idk

[modest coyote]

The sewage of the citadel flows to it

[covert tusk]

Now my question is who, yknow, puts the babies in the broodmother?
(She probably just lays eggs but it’s funnier to think someone in Pharloom hit that)

[silk dirge]

a place that used to beautiful that got ruined by the citadel

[clear token]

i have a question after beating the true ending, i still dont understand why grandma silk was killing all the weavers and why she was causing the haunting

[edgy barn]

If EvT happened, she might want to check on what the pure vessel is doing

[modest coyote]

She’s an evil wicked bitch

[queen idol]

and is sinner’s road just like another jail area? cuz why do we have the slab and the sinner’s road

[silk dirge]

the lake where fleatopia is probably a good look into what bilewater used to be

[covert tusk]

Probably even eats her own babies honestly, again there aren’t many prisoners left when we get there, so what food is left? Her own
She can just make more anyway

[clear token]

really? thats lowkey a lame reason

[silver spire]

its hte blasphemer's way to go up to the citadel

[silk dirge]

i mean im curious how that fight went

[covert tusk]

There’s only one real prison in sinners road and it’s the Green Prince’s pity party lmao

[edgy barn]

Sinner's road is just a massive muckroach farm

[silver spire]

presumably its something to do with her being lulled to sleep as the hunter's journal puts it, and its probably like a radiance thing

[edgy barn]

The cages are for them, not for people

(Green Prince is the exception)

[silk dirge]

did anyone else think green prince was a backer character when they first met him

[modest coyote]

It’s more complicated than that

Basically she gave the weavers sentience but they rebelled against her

And put her in a partial coma

Now she is pretty pissed and wants to probably put the weavers in slavery to make her better silk daughters

[clear token]

why did they rebel? and where is this lore found?

[elder prism]

So due to Sister of the Void, is there any way for Sealed Siblings or The Hollow Knight endings to be canon?

[silk dirge]

no thankfully

[modest coyote]

She haunts everyone because she is unconscious- so she basically is using every method to try break out

[covert tusk]

Not to mention now there’s a bunch of genocidal assholes using her sealed body as the basis of their cult organization

[silver spire]

arent weavers all extinct though

[edgy barn]

Technically yes, but realistically not

[modest coyote]

Idk why they rebelled- but lore is scattered around

[covert tusk]

And why do you think that is?

[modest coyote]

I wonder why….

[edgy barn]

You would need some very sloppy writing to make them fit

[silk dirge]

some people ive seen here would genuinely be more happy to see team cherry shoehorn in a fly breaking the black egg temple seal than allowing void to be in silksong

[clear token]

i need a 5 hour mossbag video explaining all the lore

[silver spire]

i mean theres like no weavers anywhere in pharloom aside from like 2 bosses that are very clearly not normal weavers and one ostracized crest lady

[modest coyote]

Basically the citadel is incredibly evil

They have a caste system and automated slavery and made robots for the purpose of improving efficiency of slavery

[covert tusk]

Again
I wonder why
(There’s barely any weavers because she killed them bro. She’s the reason they’re dead, she captured Hornet for a similair reason)

[modest coyote]

They also have a Gestapo and mega prison

[edgy barn]

Hey, what's the deal with Widow?

[modest coyote]

And in the prison they feed people to a fucking monster which gives birth to the Gestapo bugs

[elder prism]

Also, does the delicate flower variant of Embrace The Void make all shades vanish, or just return to the void without wreaking havoc on Hallownest? Hornet saw a flash of Shadelord when looking at the Knight, so I wonder if both variants of EtV can be canon

[queen idol]

icl the pale king was a pretty good guy after seeing pharloom

[silk dirge]

honestly seeing hornet just crack the neck of that warden dude and get back her stuff is so satisfying

[modest coyote]

Pale king was a hero we just couldn’t see it

[silk dirge]

probably the latter

[silver spire]

wait but hornet said she was captured for her silk

[covert tusk]

Crazed fanatic of the Grandmother, a loyalist to Silk unlike other weavers, and one of her personal goons (vs the Citadel who she just controls and were once their own evil. Widow is specific to Silk)

[silk dirge]

it just repels the void back to the abyss probably

[modest coyote]

@clear token like they have an automated slavery system

[silk dirge]

why did widow get her mask removed then

[silver spire]

also the everbloom looks strangely light the delicate flower, so does that mean that zemer is immune to void due to having these

[covert tusk]

Well yes, but what would they do with her when she runs out?
Its a mix of what the Citadel wants (Silk for immortality) and what GMS wants (weaver genocide)

[modest coyote]

Torture mind washing prolly

[edgy barn]

I imagine Silk would want to make sure the last weaver still loyal wouldn't change her mind ever

Hence the whole thing with the pins on her spine

[covert tusk]

Torture presumably by the citadel, maybe that’s why she’s so loyal to Silk too, her taking control saved her or something unintentionally (or also Silk testing her character)

[modest coyote]

GMS is basically a paranoid control freak megafascist slaver

[silk dirge]

that makes sense

honestly i feel so bad for lace having that as your mom is not great

[covert tusk]

Dude i need to make a more in depth image the way this keeps being brought up LMAO

[lucid dirge]

hey man

could be worse

[queen idol]

this is a long question with a long answer but what is the purpose of these areas in relation to the world and the citadel?

• far fields
• greymoor
• the marrow
• sands of karak (specifically confused about how they got ruined)
• bone bottom

[modest coyote]

It’s literally true

[silver spire]

💀 now we just need radiance

[blissful harbor]

@raven cove

[covert tusk]

No wonder Lace is a psychopath look who raised her (or didn’t honestly considering Silk’s state)

[lucid dirge]

pale king slander 🥀🥀🥀🥀

[modest coyote]

Independent civilisations not important enough for the citadel to destroy

[queen idol]

bro but like before the radiance and the child killing he was doing like really good

[lucid dirge]

pale king did nothing wrong

[neat sandal]

I more to theory that cause all weaver want rebel GMS but only widow loyal so other weaver torturee her

[edgy barn]

The far fields and the marrow are just natural environments. Bone bottom is the place where pilgrims start their climp up to the citadel. Greymoor is divided between east and west: the east is the crawbug's domain, while the west is dedicated to catching the silk threads falling from the citadel above.

We don't actually know what happened in Sands of Karak

[covert tusk]

NEVER, MY GLORIOUS KING WAS A HERO AND PROVIDED HOMELESS FRIENDLY INFRASTRUCTURE

GLORY TO HALLOWNEST

[queen idol]

pharloom is a capitalist hellhole

[silk dirge]

there was probably no homeless people in hallownest bc geo was actually obtainable

[unkempt smelt]

and the solution is murdering the "rich" to get hella bands

[queen idol]

how do people even make money in pharloom? like the ones in the high halls i guess they probably just own a bunch of slaves in the deep docks or something idk

[lucid dirge]

even the literal fucking giant bugs that do nothing but slam their head against the wall had geo

[silk dirge]

the fucking headbanger mushrooms ❤️

shrumal ogers

[queen idol]

i love how silksong has made the hive actually relevant in any way to hollow knight lore because before it felt like it was there for no reason

[silk dirge]

yeah same

[blissful harbor]

they did it so forcefully tho it’s makes like no sense

[covert tusk]

Most areas under the citadel are part of the pilgrims journey to the citadel, hense their lack of development and overwhelming predators
Bonebottom the first and worst haven for pilgrims on their way to the citadel, frequently attacked and generally full of those who haven’t even begun
The sands of karak, idk how it got ruined but honestly I don’t think it needs an explanation. There’s so many areas negatively affected by the Citadel that you can just chalk it up to another casualty
And Greymour, a windmill area where Moorwing was trained to hunt down pilgrims, and the only area connecting to what remains of Verdania

[silk dirge]

i love that they brought back daughter of 3 queens

[covert tusk]

Well before it was another example of those rejecting the Pale King’s rule but also I do agree yeah it was a fun shock seeing it in the Red Memory

[edgy barn]

Moorwing was not trained to hunt pilgrims, but rather escaped workers

[silk dirge]

revisiting areas of hallownest in red memory left me shaking the entire day

it was a massive blast of nostalgia to just a week ago

[queen idol]

also i think i have a vague understanding of it but does anyone have a concrete explanation for the memorium and its role within like the wider context of silksong?

[covert tusk]

Working in a slave pit like Deepdocks or Greymour or the Underworks to make frayed rosary strings and barely survive for your few moments of peace before more backbreaking work

[silk dirge]

and i think the ending of it was amazing to it made me connect a lot to hornet

[frail marten]

hives purpose used to be to show how hallownest did leave certain kingdoms alone

vespa knows of vessels presumably because she was contacted to be a dreamer, but she turned down the offer. the hive was left to be its independent kingdom after that

now its the same but they also trained hornet and gave her her needle

[edgy barn]

It's a place where the enviroments and fauna of Pharloom are preserved and remembered

[covert tusk]

So even worse basically got it
Me when I try to take a sick day off but my boss saw me having too much fun at home, so Moorwing tears me to pieces

[silk dirge]

she was born in a fucked up world and she just wants to craft a world that isnt fucked up she can just live her life in

is what i got from the final scene of red memory

and it hit so hard bc its very relatable

[queen idol]

yeah but like why is that even a thing? just like a zoo? does being forgotten have implications on the area or does the area get forgotten after it goes into critical condition?

[lucid dirge]

i thought we already knew that

[silk dirge]

it made me connect to hornet more than to madeline

[lucid dirge]

also vespa naming hornet after herself 🥀🥀🥀🥀🥀🥀Like Okay narcissist

[edgy barn]

It seems to be kind of like a zoo yeah

[silk dirge]

it was a partially scrapped concept in hk that hornet was the "daughter of 3 queens, birthed by herrah, raised by white lady, trained by vespa"

[covert night]

i think it's just a zoo to please the people of citadel because they don't seem to care about other areas

[edgy barn]

You even got certain creatures being bred to be bigger like the coral crabs from the old coral tower

[covert tusk]

I think it’s big implications lore wise is

• the mutated wild life
• the lack of any Verdania life, hinting to the player there’s a secret lost area

[frail marten]

we do but i wrote it in response to questioning the relevance of the hive in hollow knight

[lucid dirge]

ohhh

[silk dirge]

the massive mossgrub hornet commentary is peak

[vague whale]

SHE LOVES THE SOFT THINGS...

[silk dirge]

also i like how as soon as we move to a new kingdom team cherry is like fuck it a grub can be anything now

[queen idol]

this might be the hottest take of all time but i barely cared for the celeste storyline and characters i mostly just played for the platforming which is so so good

[edgy barn]

...how does Hornet know that the coral hulk aren't naturally that big, if she hasn't met their now exticnt natural form yet?

[queen idol]

well i mean the grubs only really made sense in the context of the collector

[silk dirge]

you have committed a sin most grave you will work in the underworks for eternal pharloom now

[lucid dirge]

probably looks really weird and unnatural or something

[frail marten]

the fact that the memorium houses moss grotto creatures could imply they would've exploited that area for resources if they hadn't fallen

[silk dirge]

ok tbh i liked celeste story but even tho im trans i didnt connect with it a whole lot

[queen idol]

would you rather work in the deep docks greymoor or underworks if you were a lowly pilgrim slave

[silk dirge]

like i didnt feel like i was madeline

where in silksong im literally feeling like im hornet experiencing these emotions and everything

[deft dragon]

we see the corpses of citadel bugs all around the moss areas. they were probably doing that before the fall

[lucid dirge]

isnt it mainly pilgrims though

[vague whale]

Those were the ones carrying Hornet

[edgy barn]

Greymoor seems the most safe and mild, so long as you don't try escaping

[silk dirge]

idk what specifically is making me connect with hornet so much but its made silksong so much fun

[covert tusk]

She meets them in the memory of Crust King Khan
Plus, it’s like how we can tell pugs today were bred to be this way, you just can kinda tell

[silk dirge]

perhaps it's just the "i want to live my life in a not fucked up world"

[frail marten]

working the silk dregs and get ambushed by 7 squat craws

[limpid summit]

I felt like Hornet was more relatable

Well not more relatable just relatable

[vague whale]

Just stay on the other side of Greymoor 😎

[frail marten]

look at how many corpses are in the craw lake

[rigid vale]

I like hornet shes elegant

[limpid summit]

Maybe it’s cause even though we saw TK’s thoughts about a few things it’s definitely more of a blank slate it was really fun to have someone talking and actually responding in a way we could understand

[silk dirge]

also shes just cooler like madeline can only dash while hornet can do all sorts of things including dashing

[covert tusk]

Nah more relatable because like

The Knight is empty, what’s there to relate to

[silk dirge]

yeah this its why i enjoyed the hunters journal in silksong a lot more

[silver spire]

its just like my love life: empty and barren

[silk dirge]

bc its like i would also want a non spiked massive mossgrub to pet

[foggy cloak]

Am I the only paranoid who sees a slight connection with Radiance?
I don't know, ever since I saw the trailer, I felt that strange connection.

[elder nymph]

How long between HK and SS? I ask due to this

[queen idol]

who even enforces the slavery in the slave areas of the game like they are all so dangerous and far from the citadel how do they even enforce their power and control? also what actually differentiates an underworks worker who just goes up into the citadel from another pilgrim who came through the other ways? like how are the underworks workers delegated to that area of society when they look pretty similar to the chorus enemies? do you need to work to get to chorus / high halls status or would it be more like a familial thing?

[edgy barn]

It is said that in the the Weaver Queen timeline, Hornet first order as monarch was for the memorium staff to make a breed of Mossgrub without the spikes.

[silk dirge]

not much time hornet was living for a long ass time before hk

[silver spire]

i mean, yea actually i do see the connection

[covert night]

same

[silver spire]

the insignia of sinners is a sun

[silk dirge]

i think its just a coincidence

[elder nymph]

She has lived a long one. Even she makes remarks about how long she has been around

[silk dirge]

it looks similar kinda but theres a lot of differences

[elder nymph]

Kinda surprised she was just a Hollownest void knight hunter

[silk dirge]

what do we think the relationship between hornet and lace is after true ending bc lets be real lace is actually a child sesbian lex is not happening

[edgy barn]

We know that in the deep docks, it's the forge brothers who keep the lower ranks in line

[silk dirge]

id imagine hornet is probably going to be like a mother figure to lace replacing gms

shes probably a way better mother than gms anyways

[tawdry flare]

Sibling coded

[silk dirge]

i just noticed something really cute which is in the title screen you get after true ending you can see lace's pin in the rock by hornets needle

[elder prism]

I don't think Hornet is staying for too long in Pharloom, maybe help the residents get their stuff together for a bit and then leave Lace to her own devices

[silk dirge]

what reason would hornet have to return to hallownest tho

what is there to do

pharloom might actually have a future ahead of it hallownest is fucking dead with like 10 living people

[covert tusk]

Well we have some ideas
Moorwing’s masters enforced the Greymour district
Signis and Gron enforced the Deep Docks
Phantom watched Bilewater, or at least her small area
And while it’s unclear what causes an Underworker to become one, it’s less a out HOW and moreso IS, the existence of an Underworkee shows immediately that the Citadel is far from paradise

[elder prism]

Maybe not exactly Hallownest, though Hornet did mention she does not intend to stay when receiving the bellhome

[queen idol]

ty bro this explains a lot

[edgy barn]

Someone has to make sure those 10 people don't die.

[silk dirge]

i saw someone call them forebrothers sigma and grok before and i cant stop laughing now

its so bad why am i laughing at that

im not even that brainrotted 🥀

[foggy cloak]

Perhaps it's just a parallel or a coincidence, because as far as I know, there's no mention of Randious in Pharloom.
But it's curious how these kinds of references are found in the "drainage" areas, the same areas where there's a boss that seems to cast soul spells, something that even seems to be clarified by the item it gives us.

[edgy barn]

I think the bugs we see at Sinner's road aren't at the citadels service. They are just making a living of their own by herding muckroaches

[covert night]

also there is a lore tablet that says "their souls are ours" in bilewater

[covert tusk]

My favorite Silksong bosses

[edgy barn]

This is reinforced by the two NPCs we meet there + the boss being a disgraced chef from the citadel itself.

[covert tusk]

Oh for sure they aren’t, but also I do think sinner’s road is still connected to the Citadel due to again its alternate path to the Citadel (Sinneds Road -> Bilewater -> Citadel)
Its why Phantom is stationed where she is

[lean temple]

Yeah ass Jim got fired

[silk dirge]

ASS JIM

[covert tusk]

No problem dude!

[queen idol]

does anyone else feel they nailed the atmosphere in whiteward so well like its genuinely so scary and uncomfortable i always want to get out of there as quickly as possible like possibly worse than deepnest in terms of how badly i just want to spend the least time there

[elder nymph]

Whiteward wouldn't be so bad if there were enemies like a normal zone

There is always one frayed or whatever they are called

[covert tusk]

Whiteward to me honestly was an easy area but yeah no it felt SO uncomfortable to be in, especially trying to find Sherma in there and hoping to god he was still alive

[covert night]

whiteward just shows how evil citadel was

[queen idol]

the music was probably like half of it it sounded like that one song from dog’s life dog pound

[elder nymph]

Pale beings, so far, aren't good.

[covert tusk]

Pale Goat slander 💔

[queen idol]

i am forever a pale king defender

[elder nymph]

People make up some funny stuff

[queen idol]

can someone explain the connection between the cogwork dancers and the clover dancers i kinda missed it tbh i just killed them

[elder nymph]

Only thing connecting Hollownest to Pharloom, afaik, is the Abyss below and the wastes above

Never heard anything of a war between bug nations

The conflicts were all internal. Like, Mantis, bees, deepnest

This would be verdania, ants, conch

[covert tusk]

Cogwork Dancers are the mechanized soul of the Green Prince’s lover, and former dual prince of Verdania. He made a deal with the Citadel that they could take him if they left Verdania alone, so they split his soul and turned him into the Cogwork dancers

Then the citadel destroyed Verdania anyway

Now the green prince is alone and Prince of nothing but his fading memories of his land and lover

[queen idol]

how do they keep getting more evil 😭

[elder nymph]

His lover was another green prince?

[craggy zephyr]

So lace is just a more sentient vessel made from silk?

[queen idol]

bro

[final sun]

yes u sees it later in da game

they are gay for eachother

❤️‍🩹

[craggy zephyr]

I'm a bit confused by her since her lore is tucked away mostly and she just shows up a bunch

[elder nymph]

I don't think spirit mode counts. But like, 2 green princes? Of different kingdoms or the same? Cause thats the difference between prince bros and not prince bros

[queen idol]

this is mostly hk lore but like basically she was born of the pale king and the queen of the weavers which makes her like half god (wyrm) half weaver which is why she is able to use silk so well

[final sun]

well that i dont know but they are lovers

[covert tusk]

Dude
2 genocides
A slave race
A caste system
Hoarding of industrialization and technology
Like half of this isn’t even cuz of Silk and Silk is also just fucking EVIL

[elder nymph]

Yeah the thing we know is they loved eachother and had respect of the bugs of Verdania

[final sun]

yes!

[queen idol]

guys why didnt we see a communist revolution ending in pharloom

[craggy zephyr]

Why is she awful?

[elder nymph]

Because communism only works on paper.

[covert night]

not enough class consciousness 💔

[queen idol]

oh wait no i misread lace for hornet im so stupid yeah shes basically a silk vessel

[elder nymph]

Twins ya think?

[vital goblet]

This person was saying what Hornet is. Lace mentions herself after her V2 fight that Silk made her completely from weaving, she not a bug imbued with silk, she is pure silk

And she’s mad about being an abomination

[elder nymph]

Curious how GMS did that

GMS made sentient life

[sage bough]

Im also guessing thats why she fell so hard to the void

[elder nymph]

From silk

[craggy zephyr]

Why does hornet care about saving her when she reveled in the death of countless bugs?

[elder nymph]

Pale King just made brain grow big lmao

[midnight vault]

something something pale being idk

[elder nymph]

DOWN WITH THE PALE BEINGS! Oh wait

The two we know of are dead.

Well hold on

[queen idol]

wait who made the brains grow big for the people in pharloom there wasnt like wyrm king there

[sage flame]

I hope Hornet stays in Pharloom, the land is so much more alive. Hallownest is bascially a graveyard, what point does she have returning home

[elder nymph]

The white tree lady is a pale being yeah?

[neat sandal]

cause if she not save her, her mother keep angry and pharloom will collaspe

[raven condor]

Is the last judge a robot?

[vital goblet]

Hornet seems to have a bit of a savior complex idk. When picking up the Silk and Soul quest she talks about her two natures pulling her in different directions regarding the ending we choose

[elder nymph]

Sounds like a muscle mommy

Like her but bug

[midnight vault]

Karmelita

[sage flame]

I imagine Hornet sees herself in Lace

[craggy zephyr]

I get that, but couldn't hornet just drown her in a puddle or something after pulling her out. She is incredibly dangerous and reckless

[elder nymph]

Prolly considers her like a sis

[vital goblet]

This is a good observation actually

[elder nymph]

Hornet isn't one whole thing either.

[midnight vault]

The difference is that Silk loves Lace while PK had the White Lady do everything while he paid all attention to his favorite child

[craggy zephyr]

I think it's a big with a lot of void juice, it bleeds black from their eyes

[neat sandal]

sure.
but why
hornet not just murder for fun

unnecessary kill
(beside 4th heart)

[queen idol]

i feel like if it had void it would be a lot more powerful

[elder nymph]

From my primitive understanding. Hornet should not exist. As in Wyrm and Weaver mating isnt commonplace

[craggy zephyr]

Yeah but lace was actively excited about the idea of killing all the bugs of pharloom, she's evil

[sage flame]

Why would Hornet want to return to Hallownest? There is so much more in Pharloom

[modest coyote]

Tbf I think she has to remove her from GMS in order to get her to release the void tendrils

[elder nymph]

Hallownest is her home. Her kingdom

[sage flame]

A kingdom where everyone is dead or dying

[midnight vault]

Dead kingdom with not much left

[elder nymph]

She was trying to save that home btw

[craggy zephyr]

It's gone bro, there is nothing worth saving there anymore

[elder nymph]

I mean, she would of failed if not for us

[craggy zephyr]

Hallownest likely became a tomb of scavengers and bandits after the events of hk

[sage flame]

Now that she saved Pharloom, I'd imagine she could help be its defender like she had been for Hallownest

[vital goblet]

I think she mentioned something about her home being gone and that she’s not going back. But that’s part of why she wants to save Pharloom so much, she doesn’t want to see another kingdom fall like her home.

[queen idol]

what could she possibly even do all day in hallownest like assuming the ending is shade lord there is nothing to really do. compared to pharloom where she would be able to rebuild and defend the kingdom

[elder nymph]

Hollownest should be nothing but Mantis and Mushrooms

[sage flame]

She never said that

[elder nymph]

Maybe some bees

[neat sandal]

so same as Hornet, when she guarding hollownest?
random killing anyone dare enter her dying kingdom

[vital goblet]

Not verbatim but I remember her alluding to her home at one point

[elder nymph]

She flat out says Hallownest is her home and remarks about how she would do things in her kingdom or something like that multiple times. Like, allowing Hallownest to fall to ruin in the first place

[pure belfry]

are the Wisp Thicket enemies somehow connected to Grim Troupe or their lore/quest?

[queen idol]

that was what i was confused about in hk like why did she even care enough to want to kill the vessel like if the knight fails midway through their quest what consequence is there?

[craggy zephyr]

Yeah the mushrooms were getting out of control and there wasn't really anyone to stop them

[cinder berry]

||did we know that hornet trained with the hive pre-silksong?||

[sage flame]

When you talk to Sherma before going down to the final fight Hornet and Sherma talk to each other saying this will be the last times they see each other and that Hornet will go back to Hallownest. But I really don't see her going back

[craggy zephyr]

Little bit of a difference in killing intruders and killing residents

[elder nymph]

Mr. Mushroom appears in Pharloom and Hornet is like. You're weird.

[vital goblet]

Oh I didn’t talk to Sherma again oops

[timber pond]

pre hallownest collapse when she was growing up

[craggy zephyr]

Hallownest is in much worse condition that pharloom

[sage flame]

Pharloom is on an island, how is she even supposed to get back

[elder nymph]

Pharloom ain't doing so hot itself

[queen idol]

how do we know that?

[cinder berry]

So we did know before silksong released? I don't remember if mossbag included that in his lore video

[craggy zephyr]

Yeah grandma silk silking everyone can't be good for the economy

[sage flame]

Yeah but it has thousands of living people and communities. Hallownest has almost nobody except mantises

[midnight vault]

Pharloom still has industry even after act 3 itll recover

[elder nymph]

Did you not watch the opening?

[queen idol]

i wonder what size pharloom would be in human scale?

like the size of a house?

[vital goblet]

And a sleepy mapmaker

[pure belfry]

Pharloom seems to have been rotting alive for generations upon generations. Hallownest is just silent and dead until the infection came right?

[craggy zephyr]

I would say about the size of a three story building

[elder nymph]

There are a several towns and areas in Hallownest. They just aren't as fleshed out as Pharloom.

[timber pond]

The developers mentioned it at some point.

[queen idol]

pretty much but silent and dead after the infection before it was doing pretty well

[craggy zephyr]

Well at the end of Silksong only two towns remain and one is a refuge for pilgrims

[cinder berry]

Some guy found that all the sewing tools in the game are a really accurate size compared to the rosaries, which allows me to estimate that hornet is about 1 1/2 inches tall, meaning that yes, pharloom would be like a house

[craggy zephyr]

They really don't get too deep into the religion aspect of Silksong despite the whole of act 1 and 2 being about the pilgrimage up

[cinder berry]

Ok thanks

[cinder berry]

Actually, it would probably be a lot bigger than the average house in terms of height

[sage flame]

Graymoor is a city that still exists. Also the original Bone Bottom town can be rebuilt

[pure belfry]

i mean like after the Radiance started leaking infection out of the HK. Like when the [resemntevents of the game begin. Quirrel even says ||this dead world has sprung to life||

[queen idol]

who even controlled the citadel before everything went to shit? like the haunting and everything and why did everything go to shit? was it GMS the entire time?

[edgy barn]

I would hardly call Greymoor a city

[sage flame]

The Citadel can be rebuilt into a city that actually has people living inside

[ashen rampart]

to quote hornet directly, "I will not. I have already stood the sentinel for one dying land. That role... I will never play again."

[craggy zephyr]

Isn't everyone in bone bottom dead?

[elder nymph]

Hornet says "my kingdom" in what I assume references her home Hollownest

[midnight vault]

I think the citadel went from the hands of Weavers -> The Conductors -> Silk (Haunting)

[sage flame]

No there was a refugee camp where they all went

[elder nymph]

GMS is a weaver

Is she not?

[covert tusk]

Newer version lmao

[cinder berry]

She directly says the name of hallownest at some point in act 3, but I don't remember the conversation it's in

[queen idol]

so i guess the conductors probably made the terrible caste system and slavery and shit cuz the weavers are lowkey the good guys

[sage flame]

Well now the citadel can go back into the hands of the citizens of Pharloom and they can live in it

[elder nymph]

Oh, yeah I know

[midnight vault]

idk I've seen a lot of confusion between her being the creator of the weavers, one of them, or a higher being they contained

[edgy barn]

In terms of named characters, only the craftsbug is left

[meager drum]

is there any fayforn lore? or is it just a feathery guy

[edgy barn]

Little Pilgrim died and the shopkeeper left

[neat sandal]

what residents?
it's like hornet fight the way to the top citadel
she kill countless people too
Lace is child of monarch, keep place clean and quiet, that's her duty
who is she to judge who Lace kill right and wrong?

[queen idol]

he probably has some sort of control over the cold in mount fay since it disappears after you meet him

[elder nymph]

A weaver, sure. Creator of? Nah. Not buying it. Weavers seem to me like gypsies almost.

[queen idol]

or maybe the feathers help insulate hornet idk

[meager drum]

no im pretty sure the feathers just insulate your cloak

[vital goblet]

It disappears because of the featherdown

[meager drum]

hes just a feathery guy then?

[midnight vault]

its bird

[queen idol]

mossbag help us!!!

[meager drum]

wait if he has feathers does that make him an actually canon vertebrate?!

[covert night]

he seems like a higher being to me for some reason, but this is just a guess

[elder nymph]

Bug bird on Mt. Fay is chill

[craggy zephyr]

Oh where's that? I missed it

[silk dirge]

im forever nicknaming these "depressed ravas" bc they look exactly like the city of tears guards who yell rava but a lot more depressed

[meager drum]

bugs dont have feathers so is fayforn an actual bird?!

[silk dirge]

well not exactly but very similar

[elder nymph]

I will forever hear "BROTHA"

[queen idol]

oh wait i just realized the scale for the fay bird being huge actually makes sense i forgot everyone was bugs and the fayforn is probably like massive compared to them

[olive stag]

they do, though. the cages in the slab, the green prince's remarks about mother silk... it's clearly a dictatorship enforced by faith

[silk dirge]

speaking of fayforn this is the best scene in silksong it easily beats out any ending its not even close

[elder nymph]

NO

WRONG

[midnight vault]

[silk dirge]

the way hes just staring at the fayforn like that 😭

[cinder berry]

||which ending is the canon ending of hk? I just got the "sister of the void" ending, and I'm pretty sure it's flower ending but I'm not sure if it's ending 3, 4, or 5||

[silk dirge]

its so good

[elder nymph]

Wait for it. Is coming

[meager drum]

is it possible that fayforn is an actual bird though?

[queen idol]

id assume sister of the void?

[silk dirge]

dream no more and embrace the void are both canon

[elder nymph]

Best scene

[sage flame]

Pharloom can easily be rebuilt. The area is for the most part in tact with the exception of the Citadel and Bone Bottom. Other than those areas the kingdom is for the most part intact

[silk dirge]

thk is not canon and thankfully sealed siblings is not canon

[queen idol]

i would assume so given how big it is and that no bug really looks like that

[olive stag]

all endings can be canon. this has been confirmed multiple times

[silk dirge]

they arent now

[cinder berry]

So the 3 hardest endings of hk all remain canon?

[olive stag]

why?

[silk dirge]

sister of the void makes it pretty explicit which endings are canon

[timber pond]

Confirmed like 6 years ago when development started 😂 those statments may have likely changed

[cloud jacinth]

wormways is fucked too

[neat sandal]

@craggy zephyr yeah this. You can replace it with Hornet and Lace.
Our Heroic guardian - Psychotic murder

[elder nymph]

Also, Phantom is my personal favorite new character

[sage flame]

I never went into Wormways what happened there

[cloud jacinth]

completly overrun with ||lifeblood||

[silk dirge]

like go ahead and tell me how tf the knight appears in the void when its chained up in the black egg temple?

[blazing elm]

scientist gone wrong

[midnight vault]

Pale King was a good ruler tho just a bad father

[silk dirge]

no its just shit changes during development i think

[elder nymph]

Phantom was a hell of a fun fight. Their moveswt was fun to deal with

[timber pond]

yeah me too lmao

[silk dirge]

this was before godmaster released i think

[queen idol]

is there any real life bug that the wyrm can be based off of? because normal worms arent that big

[silk dirge]

its likely based off dune sandworms

dune was a big inspiration for hk

[neat sandal]

no evidence that shit show in Citadel created by GMS
but there is alot of evidence those created by weavers and the current Conductor

[lusty forum]

OMG, just got the hardest ending and now need to talk about it. Are we not posting about endings here yet or should I just spoiler it?

[midnight vault]

Doesnt change my King being a glorious ruler

[elder nymph]

You say big but we have no idea of scale do we?

[sage flame]

I'm pretty sure we aren't getting a Hollow Knight 3

[silk dirge]

all spoilers are allowed here

[queen idol]

nothing is spoilers in this channel

[lusty forum]

We've been slandering ghost for years. This this was always just an abused child and this ending for SS now makes me realize that hornet might be the only entity left alive the knight would do something like that for.

None of this "empty vessel" nonsene was ever even close to true

[cinder berry]

||I know it has, but the cutscene shows the Knight's shade, the shade lord, and has relations to the delicate flower all in the same cutscene, which inclines me to believe flower ending is the (most) canon ending. Ending 2 of hk is now no longer canon, unless there's another ending that I haven't got that shows that ss could be a prequel and have her go back to hallownest to be sealed in the black egg||

[queen idol]

zotesong

[midnight vault]

Zoteboat

[covert tusk]

*psychotic
Proper grammar

[sage flame]

It will be unfortunate that Team Cherry probably won't make another metroidvania but I hope they do

[cinder berry]

I think this is unlikely, as hornet would have completely destroyed the knight if she had the experience of pharloom first

[lusty forum]

I feel like TC left it purposefully vague, to be left up to interpretation. ||We know the endings where you replace the Hollow knight, both regular and sealed sibling, are definately not cannon to that ending||. But I feel like any of the others could technically work.

[elder nymph]

They put the same type of message at the end of both games.

[fickle scarab]

an interesting parralel for shakra and the mantis tribe is that she uses the word "kika" in a similar inlfection to how the mantis lords use it when they bar the gates to deepnest

[elder nymph]

Shakra isn't a Mantis?

[queen idol]

idk the radiance endings also dont seem canon considering they result in the knight dying and not becoming the shadelord so i feel it should be one of the godhome endings

[fickle scarab]

i know

[cloud jacinth]

i saw somebody bring it up earlier, i dont really think hornet needs subsidince to survive, and i think that she would have been broken out of the temple of the black egg by the people who kidnapped her tbh.

[lusty forum]

Not dying. The void liquid fades downward, towards the abyss. Only the shell is gone, which isn't here anyways

[elder nymph]

Void knight dies and returns to abyss......

Makes sense

[cinder berry]

How would they do that though?

[sage flame]

The snail shaman reveal was crazy for me

[silk dirge]

they make it very ambiguous and up to interpretation with it flashing between the dnm and etv forms

[lusty forum]

But y'all, I have a different question... ||What is void even DOING in both kingdoms???||

[vital goblet]

I felt so dumb for not realizing the old lady in the beginning was a snail

[silk dirge]

🐌

[lusty forum]

Like, it has to have originated seperately in both places, there's no way that much void just up and moved across the world without anyone mentioning it

[silk dirge]

its likely the abyss is an underworld to the entire world

[covert night]

void could be under everywhere

[cinder berry]

Doesn't it say that the black egg can only be opened by killing the dreamers, and hornet becomes a dreamer, inside the black egg

[sage flame]

I imagine the void is probably under everything

[neat sandal]

/j

[lusty forum]

Wouldn't we see vessel fragments in part of this one then? Unless the abyss is REALLY big?

[elder nymph]

Its called writers purview. Its how they want it.

Also, there is no indication food wasn't consumed in some amount at the feast. Her, uh, other imbibing methods usually call for stabbing

[cinder berry]

Pretty difficult to open a locked safe which has the key inside of it

[silk dirge]

hornet says in the diary entry for the shadow crawler dudes if she goes deep enough anywhere she will likely find them

[fickle scarab]

elder hu saught to purify the mantis tribe but ultimately was exiled. he bares a lot of resemblance to shakra and her master. the fact that elder hu's tribe and the mantis tribe had contact at some point its not out of the question shakra has some part in it all

[silk dirge]

so its likely the abyss exists everywhere

[cloud jacinth]

maybe its been awhile since ive actually done that ending because like why would you. i should go back and look at it to again to see exactly what it says.

[elder nymph]

Her entry for Lost Lace has me thinking she misses little void dude

[unkempt smelt]

man i should do this more often

[lusty forum]

This makes sense I suppose. But now this also means that the shade lord would be BY FAR the most powerful being in the wolrd, as void is the only consistent power across the whole thing

[silk dirge]

nah its just people came up with a weirdass explanation that does not seem intended at all by team cherry for how sealed siblings is somehow canon

[elder nymph]

I MISSED THE SHAKRA DUEL

[cinder berry]

It's doesn't say this in the cutscene, but all the lore videos I've watched have said that they need to be killed/destroyed to open the egg

[fickle scarab]

:(

[elder nymph]

Oh well second playthrough stuff

[silk dirge]

and also it doesnt work at all with the theme of hollow knight which is to set a dead kingdom to rest

if hornet is removed from the black egg temple anyone can go in there and kill the knight and release the infection

which is most definitely not setting the kingdom to rest

[elder nymph]

Hornet left the temple herself

[spark valve]

the first two endings don't put the kingdom to rest that's why they're the 'bad endings' in the narrative structure

[elder nymph]

We know this

[silk dirge]

im talking about sealed siblings

[unkempt smelt]

eh the dreamers have enough power to trap anyone in a dream

[cinder berry]

This entire "which ending(s) of which games" discussion is hurting my brain

[lusty forum]

I mean, first they'd have to kill the knight. If it was one of those crazy speedrunners controlling it I don't think that would be possible

[spark valve]

they wouldn't

but that doesn't matter

[cinder berry]

Why do there have to be so many contradictions and paradoxes

[elder nymph]

We know for a fact Hornet walked out of the Black Temple.

[spark valve]

endings of hk that are canon to ss are either dnm or etv

[silk dirge]

we are talking about sealed siblings

the thing i am really curious about now tho is how that duel with thk went

[spark valve]

there was no duel

[elder nymph]

Right. I'm trying to say thst doesnt work

[silk dirge]

did thk just like aura farm for a second on hornet and then go actually nah we frens

[cinder berry]

Please elaborate dnm and etv

[lusty forum]

I feel like if you get the non-void endings, the other HK endings can be cannon

[silk dirge]

honestly i like that explanation ill go with it

[spark valve]

dream no more and embrace the void are endings in the first game

[cinder berry]

Ah

[spark valve]

it didn't even do anything it's walking leaning on its nail because it's on the brink of death, it's just turning to face her

[lusty forum]

It's just the "true" ending of SS that reduces the choices. But that doesn't necessarily mean the others weren't cannon if you don't go for the harder endings

[cinder berry]

Thank you; I hadn't seen the abbreviations used before

[silk dirge]

honestly tho now that silksong is a confirmed sequel im kinda hoping someone makes a quirrel prequel fangame

i doubt team cherry will do it but idk maybe theyll surprise us

im sorry for quirrel fans but he very clearly committed suicide

if theres ever going to be a quirrel game its going to be a prequel

silksong quirrel revival scene (4k hd)

[sage flame]

I wonder what kind of genre of game Team Cherry will be making next. Because I think I heard at some point they wanted to make something of a different genre

[elder nymph]

Confirmed sequel? How was that in question?

[lusty forum]

Yeah I doubt their next game will be HK

[silk dirge]

yeah they filed a trademark for a sidescroller called fearless fox

this was a few years back tho

so who knows whats up with that

[silk dirge]

you would be surprised

it was a very common debate in the weeks leading up to the release

[lusty forum]

Lol replaying Hollow Knight after beating Silksong, everything feels SO slow

[elder nymph]

Omg I hate fandoms

[silk dirge]

i remember someone made a video comparing nkg and first sinner and IT IS WILD

let me see if i can find it

[lusty forum]

I beat first sinner on my first try and it was still by far my favorite fight in the game

[elder nymph]

Of course my view is after completing Silksong. So, game made it pretty clear

[sage flame]

Does Hornet even know how to get back

[lusty forum]

I mean... something called everyone else to hallownest

[elder nymph]

I woukd assume so

[lusty forum]

And worst case scenario she can just ask ghost

[silk dirge]

i cant find the video 💔

[elder nymph]

She is a hunter

[silk dirge]

it probably got deleted from where i found it bc it was posted without a spoiler warning

so people just went into it and got first sinner spoiled

[sage flame]

The thing I dislike about act 3 is that so much of the incredible music is replaced with ones that aren't as cool

[lusty forum]

I avoided YouTube and other social media platforms about anything Silksong until I got the harder ending, and boy and I glad I did that

[queen idol]

i feel like the godhome endings are the ones that make sense tho cuz in the final cutscene theres a flashback to like the big 8 eyed void thing from godhome which doesnt appear in the other ending

[silk dirge]

speaking of act 3 music is anyone else surprised as fuck team cherry used music from the lead up to the true final boss in the release trailer

its actually kinda wild

i mean you dont know where its used but still

[vital goblet]

I was sitting in Fleatopia after a rough juggle attempt, nice and quiet, then void shrieked and scared my cat. The random shrieks are a bit annoying especially when in a boss fight

[lusty forum]

Again, I feel like this flash of shade lord is just to leave room for that ending to be a possibility. I personally think TC, famous for saying all endings are cannon, were trying to leave as many open as potentially true as possible

[timber pond]

IDK i think Embrace the void is more likely, becasue the Hollow Knights Shade isnt in the Abyss.

[neat sandal]

doubt.
if it is one person then it would be easy to walk a different path
but it is a team
kinda hard to convince everyone change what they pour so much love and sweat to it after so many years

[lusty forum]

It might have been behind the others?

[lean temple]

They left us with either DnM or EtV. I'm not mad about it but trying to cling on to the "all endings are canon thing" is futile.

[lusty forum]

IDK, it's not like we was every shade in that ending

[lean temple]

Again, THK is pretty important to leave out.

[lusty forum]

yeah not saying they all are, what I AM saying is that it would be VERY in-character for them to cross off as few endings as possible

[sage flame]

Well DLCs are confirmed to be on the way. I wonder what they will be about

[queen idol]

godseekers coming to pharloom would make sense

they are sort of nomadic

[lean temple]

Ig with Rad being dead

Pharloom has a lower concentration of Higher Beings tho

[sage flame]

I feel if they do godhome, the bosses that had waves of enemies before them have to also be included because the waves of enemies felt like part of the boss fight to me

[neat sandal]

isn't godseekers dead?

[sage flame]

I liked it

[lean temple]

And none were stated to be as powerful as like the PK

[lusty forum]

I mean... it's not like they all travel in packs? THK doesn't have to follow Ghost everywhere as far as we know.

What am I saying, we know basically nothing about ghost's life atm lol

[unkempt smelt]

arent they kinda gone
they're trapped forever in DNM and consumed in ETV

[lusty forum]

A godseeker got lost?

[lean temple]

Never said they did. But leaving THK specifically is what makes everything ambiguous.

[lusty forum]

Ambiguous, more than anything else, is I believe the point

[queen idol]

the grimm troupe is coming to pharloom 🔥

[lean temple]

They're all inside the main Godseeker's mind. No one is on their own. Only the lead Godseeker has the God tuner it seems.

[lusty forum]

How would that work without the dream nail

[lean temple]

Needolin

[queen idol]

joking p sure they’re like super dead

[lusty forum]

Needolin doesn't do essence directly though does it?

[lean temple]

They could make something up

[lusty forum]

Sorry, was refering to the Grimm troope comment

[lean temple]

Still I don't think the Troupe arriving during the Void apocalypse would be a good idea on their part.

I feek they'd like to wait it out

[lusty forum]

Also the kingdom isn't dead yet

[queen idol]

i wonder whether it would be harder to play hk with hornet or silksong with the knight? like specifically combat we are barring like not being able to move across the map or dream nail / needolin

[lusty forum]

They only arive to dead ones, and the whole point of the void ending is that there is something left to save

[unkempt smelt]

im sure hornet wouldnt want anything to do with helping a Higher Being anyway

[neat sandal]

hk with hornet cause tunnel is smalller
and hornet too tall

[lean temple]

Yeah at least during acts 1 and 2, and again during act 3 there's an apocalypse so idk if they'd want to arrive. They are more of an "arrive AFTER the apocalypse" gang.

[rapid hare]

What do you guys think hornet would want to do after the act 3 ending

[lean temple]

Maybe go back home and chill out in a hot spring for a year

[elder nymph]

Also, more of this

I want to kick the crap out of Lace lol

[maiden meteor]

Probably make sure Pharloom starts to rebuild and then idk

She doesn’t really have anywhere else to go

[lean warren]

You ever think about how Silksong and hollow knight are kinda opposites in their story

||Hollow knight was about the worst dad ever who tortured all his children for a chance at saving the world

Silksong is about the best mom ever who doomed the world to try and save her child||

[silk dirge]

i think hornet is probably just going to take a really long nap in her bellhome

[silk dirge]

gms is not the best mom ever

[maiden meteor]

Maybe one of future dlcs will expand on void threat

[lean warren]

She's not but she's trying to be in her own way

[silk dirge]

lace literally says her existence is pain

[lean warren]

Or at least she thinks she is

[silk dirge]

if we do want to talk about opposites i want to talk about the ascending/descending theme its really interesting to me

hk and silksong start off opposite

[lean warren]

And end opposite too

[silk dirge]

in hk you are descending into a ruined kingdom to discover a hidden truth

[lean warren]

HK ends at the top SS ends at the bottom

I've been thinking about that too

[silk dirge]

in silksong you are ascending a dying kingdom to discover the truth

and then act 3 that is suddenly inverted

now you are again descending to the abyss

its a really cool thing i noticed

[lean warren]

Yeah me too it's awesome

[silk dirge]

(i didnt notice it but someone else pointed it out and its really cool)

[lean warren]

The games are foils to eachother in lots of ways

[maiden meteor]

it’s also interesting that in both games you have to eventually pass essentially starting point of your journey

[lean warren]

I've noticed lots of things like that because I haven't been able to stop thinking about this game ahaha

[maiden meteor]

Black Egg in HK and Deep Docks in Silksong

[silk dirge]

yeah

[unkempt smelt]

hell nah bro 😭

[lean warren]

Huh that's true too

[lean warren]

She's trying that's my point 😭

Don't get caught up on the best mom ever wording that wasn't my point

I more meant the child/world dynamic is inverted

[silk dirge]

ok wait now that ive 100%d silksong i kinda want to try fighting like nkg to see if i can still do it

this is going to feel so awkward

[lean warren]

It'll be just like wanderer crest 🙂‍↕️

[silk dirge]

i never used that lol

[lean warren]

Yeah me neither 😭 good luck

[silk dirge]

no sprint feels so weird wtf

[lean warren]

I didnt even find it til postgame... I beat void lace at 61 completion I sucked at finding stuff

[silk dirge]

lmao i died to attuned nkg

oh wait im overcharmed

lmao

ok that feels so weird i dont want to keep trying lmao

[mighty crag]

Why does Hornet become the new ruler of Pharloom

[flint relic]

Is there any implied age for Sherma???

[silk dirge]

67

[flint relic]

Feels like he's old

[mighty crag]

I thought she just wanted to kill GSM

[flint relic]

SIX SEVENNNNN

[lean warren]

Wtf is this 67 meme 😭

[mighty crag]

I don't get it either

[lean warren]

I think it's more just... The consequence of binding GMS? I'm not sure either tho

[neat sandal]

she is like spoiled child curse their parent cause they born poor

not even poor.
she literally monarch

[lean temple]

GMS is a pretty shitty person in every category. PK was a good ruler who made a sacrifice he regretted greatly till his death.

[neat sandal]

his kingdom still dead.

[mighty crag]

Why did she bind her

Why not keep using the needle in the old way

[mighty crag]

For reasons outside his control

[neat sandal]

road to hell paved with good intentions

[flint relic]

yo guys icl I just killed gms for the first time, felt like a radiance clone

[wild zinc]

Im ngl i skipped a bunch of dialogue my bad can someone tell my why grandma kidnapped hornet and a bunch of other weavers

[raven condor]

Why does phantom have black horns?

[lean temple]

Not like GMS's kingdom isn't hellish. PK was a good ruler with a prosperous kingdom before he was fighting with a vindictive vengeful goddess.

[flint relic]

because they're cool as fuck why else

[neat sandal]

no clear reason
I guess she want to wake up by use those silk to power her

[mighty crag]

Just imagine how much would have Hallownest expanded if the Radiance never made that infection

[maiden meteor]

tbf we don’t really have much info on how big of a part GMS played in Citadel pre-haunting

[unkempt smelt]

i think it was like the only way to get rid of GMS from her perspective

[maiden meteor]

Weavers might as well be the nasty ones

[mighty crag]

How did GMS even appear in first place

[maiden meteor]

for all we know GMS basically got Radiance treatment, but instead of just being forgotten she got locked away

[maiden meteor]

Higher Beings seem to just be

[mighty crag]

She was just some kind of Goddess who decided to take over a kingdom for no reason?

[maiden meteor]

not the oldest stuff in the world but pretty ancient

[neat sandal]

yeah. and pre weaver rebel
maybe it not hellish as now
remmember, city nowady is designed hellish to cage GMS

[timber pond]

Higher beings might be Tied to the Ancient civilizations acording to what white Lady says in the memory

at least that old

[maiden meteor]

I think when she says their family is tied to void she means PK’s experiments

[mighty crag]

Also she was hunting weaver descendants to prevent anyone from toppling her?

[maiden meteor]

More likely to try escape or produce silk for Lace

[neat sandal]

she already got toppled

she probably want hunt weaver descendants to take back the power

[winged trench]

she blessed the phalids with silk so they would serve her, she is taking it back now

[mighty crag]

I thought she was the highest authority in the Pharloom and the mastermind behind the Haunting

Is that explained in act 3?

[maiden meteor]

Haunting is basically the means to escape

[winged trench]

who contained her in the first place?

[maiden meteor]

Weavers

[neat sandal]

the authority literally hunt the haunting
so she can't be the current highest authority

[mighty crag]

Isn't the Haunting controlling literally the entire citadel

[lusty forum]

Can we also appreciate the worldbuilding of SS? The underworks being a late game area with fairly strong enemies but that drop very little geo, with One-Time-Use toll benches, is just chefs kiss

[mighty crag]

That would make her the highest authority

[winged trench]

how so? the weavenest cindril stuff feels like it implies they simply escaped her rather than defeated her

[mighty crag]

Underworks isn't late game

[lusty forum]

It's act 2

[mighty crag]

The very beginning of it

[winged trench]

underworks is like 2/5ths into the game

[lusty forum]

...Are we really going to argue semantics over this?

[neat sandal]

there is the dock note: "If the haunted continue their work, leave them be! Only those who frustrate production shall be removed"
and the cogwork sentinel robot kill the haunting

[mighty crag]

You don't even have the thing that allows you to climb through those rings

[lusty forum]

Fine, mid game area, where all the enemies drop less money than the second area in the game

[lusty forum]

You literally get that IN underworks

[mighty crag]

Yes but that's after being able to contact with the outer world

Like reaching the grand gate or the great Bellway station

To be more precise

[lusty forum]

Well I was GOING to talk about how amazing the worldbuilding is with Underworks. I have no interest in arguing over pointless semantics though

[mighty crag]

You need to go through Whiteward first and for that you need to reach the first shrine

[mighty crag]

I love fighting slaves

[winged trench]

underworks is great because it shows you the reality of the citadel before the facade

[mighty crag]

(I actually hate it)

[lusty forum]

It's one of my least favorite areas to navigate, and that's 100% by design of TC

Same way Deepnest was

[mighty crag]

A maze?

[lusty forum]

More just the constant presence of hazards

Spikes/gears everywhere

Really annoying enemies too

The "not double damage but actually double damage" thing is on like half the enemies in this game I swear

At least the recent update appears to have made the gears not do two masks anymore? That was super annoying

[mighty crag]

I have a slight resentment against underworks arenas

For some reason the giant slave would cause my game to crash

[lean temple]

I have a feeling all of this is just #sk-discussion and not actual lore talk

[mighty crag]

Alright

[lusty forum]

It started out as "the lore of underworks is great and shown through gameplay" but yeah It's kinda just turned into discussion

[winged trench]

anyone know where it says that weavers sealed mother silk?

[mighty crag]

Why does the entire Citadel fall under silk in the first ending

[lean temple]

Not just this but the constant arguments about the ending and what TC should've done and whatnot

[lusty forum]

Oh geez I must have missed those conversations

[wild zinc]

Maybe hornet is more powerful than grandma idk

[winged trench]

hornet turns the entire kingdom into a cocoon and ascends to a god

[lean temple]

After Hornet binds Mother Silk a giant amount of Silk is released and makes a cocoon around Hornet

[timber pond]

Yeah it was kinda annoying. I personally appreciate how the lore was expanded.

I just wish we knew what happens to big bro hollow knight

[mighty crag]

So everyone is trapped and condemned to death

[lusty forum]

I feel like HK just... rests after the first game

[mighty crag]

?

[lusty forum]

Like they had been through a lot lol

[timber pond]

Why don't the other shades get to rest😂

[lean temple]

I just wanted to have 1 min to say how cool the new Mister Mushroom lines are

"Stone will break and steel shall rust, but Mister Mushroom readjusts, lies and truths must be discussed, but Mister Mushroom readjusts, caps and shells may fall to dust, but Mister Mushroom readjusts"

So more evidence he's immortal

[lusty forum]

Because they didn't hold the radiance in for literal generations of time?

[mighty crag]

Like the pilgrims in First Shrine and Bellhart townsfolk

[silk dirge]

im 99% sure mr mushroom references celeste

[craggy smelt]

the Citadel is referred to as 'church and cage' and was set up by the Weavers
there's some other instances I'm sure, but the general vibe is that Silk is sealed and desperate to wake and the Weavers bailed when this became inevitable

[silk dirge]

i forgot what location he says it exactly(not mt fay tho) but he says something about climbing and leaving something behind

[timber pond]

Well they all died in terrible diffrent ways and roamed this nothing rock world for eaons.

[lean temple]

I think the scene after Widow with all the Weavers on their harps is them lulling her to sleep

[lusty forum]

True, but I feel like fighting a higher being in your mind is a special kind of torture

[craggy smelt]

yeah, or at least maintaining the seal - possibly the light and them looking up is them going 'oh shit, this isn't working'

[mighty crag]

Silk is sentient?

[winged trench]

Its a form of soul

[lusty forum]

TC is not kind to higher beings in their games lol

[craggy smelt]

Silk the being is, certainly

[mighty crag]

So they basically accumulated too much silk to the point they could no longer control it completely?

[craggy smelt]

no no, Grand Mother Silk is a higher being that created the Weavers and is the source of all silk (the thread)

[lean temple]

I think they're talking about the material not Grand Mother Silk

[winged trench]

Eva was one of silks attempts at creating offspring right?

[craggy smelt]

this is why her name is terrible

[craggy smelt]

I don't think so... Eva refers to the weavers in the nest as her mothers
and it seems like the silkborn were created after all the weavers had left

[lean temple]

Weaver attempts at creating divinity afaik

[mighty crag]

so the weavers betrayed their own creator

Damn

[lean temple]

Moths 2.0

[craggy smelt]

lol yeah
TC did kinda repeat a few themes

[edgy stone]

I think eva is basically the weavers trying to recreate a creature like phantom and lace

"Gods" born from silk

[craggy smelt]

Eva's ability gives you a similar 'crown' to the one Silk has

[lean temple]

True

[winged trench]

Why did silk create the weavers then? The effigies do call them protectors of pharloom

[edgy stone]

I think lace and phantom are supposed to be higher beings due to silks strong connection to them over the weavers and silks obvious desire for another higher being

[craggy smelt]

she had a desire for daughters

[lean temple]

She wanted children, so she evolved them from Pharlids and called them daughters

[edgy stone]

Though I dont think lace and phantom ever did reach godhood due to lace saying that silk wants hornet more than lace now

[lusty forum]

And the trend of higher being being terrible parents continues lol

[mighty crag]

I mean

[lean temple]

They rarely care about lesser beings it seems

[mighty crag]

Her children betrayed her
Unless they had good reasons for that

[lusty forum]

At least Silk was a better parent than the pale king, althoug that was a LOW bar lol

[edgy stone]

My interpertation is that silk wanted daughters but creatures more like her that created naturally divine silk as well

And each generation of her daughters is just another try at that

[craggy smelt]

Yeah, you get Silk's thoughts after the second Lace fight

...Better a child spun mad... than none...
...Better a child spun frail... than none...
...Better a child spun pure... than them...
...One to wish our waking...
...From our Silk... A child born loyal...

[edgy stone]

Its weird she says child

[brisk thunder]

there is one scene that the small ‘spider’ transformed into a Weaver, probably the origin sin where she wanted to 'surpass' Grandma Silk, which has become her sin for disobey

[edgy stone]

Phantom is almost fully ignored

[lusty forum]

Alright so maybe Silk had... trust issues with lower being

[edgy stone]

I do think she made the weavers as daughters originally but never felt that connection with them

The first sinner says silk called them her daughgers and divine but silk lied

[mighty crag]

They were left to rot away in Bilewater for eternity

[winged trench]

Silk desires daughters so she creates weaver species
Weavers use their power to lull silk and trap her
They flee the kingdom and give silk to lesser bugs
The citadel is founded using her silk
Haunting breaks out and silk uses her control to find the weavers and create phantom/lace

[edgy stone]

Silk thought she created divine beings with the weavers but realized they were still just regular bugs and took away their right as her daughters

[craggy smelt]

not sure if Phantom's isolation was imposed or her own choice
Silk thought it was better to have Phantom, 'a child spun frail', than no daughters at all

[hasty flint]

Or rather, the first sinner was the one who called bullshit on their own divinity

[edgy stone]

Yeah I do believe that as well

[craggy smelt]

the Weavers orchestrated the rise of the Citadel before they fled, but otherwise that seems right

[edgy stone]

But I do think silk certainly put that connection as well with her line, "better a child spun pure... than them..."

[lean temple]

Yeah. Ig it's that they were evolved by her and not actually begotten by her

[edgy stone]

I think lace and phantom existed before the haunting

But probably past the weavers involvement

[lusty forum]

Are we able to compare Hallownest to Pharloom in terms of age at all?

[hasty flint]

That actually would make sense, creating an entire civilization whose job, knowing or not, was to maintain the trap silk was in

[edgy stone]

Haunting seems like it started relatively recently

[winged trench]

Im curious if silk had power over the citadel before the haunting

[brisk thunder]

Well... Weaver had guns, probably had better technology, and science was sort of considered as taboo

[winged trench]

Entire civilizations have crumbled since its onset

[vital goblet]

The Weavers fled to Hallownest from Pharloom, so It’s likely the same age or older

[lean temple]

I don't think so. They're both old it seems, but like usual we don't know exact ages

[edgy stone]

I doubt it, I think the citadel is a trap for silk in 2 ways

[mighty crag]

Why did the weavers trap her though

[edgy stone]

One is that it physically traps her and the music lulls her to sleep and the 2nd is that it takes away her worship

[craggy smelt]

the Weavers were there in Deepnest at the time of the Infection breaking out, so Pharloom and the Citadel would have been established by then

[edgy stone]

No one in pharloom seems to ever directly worship silk anymore

[vital goblet]

The decree was to flee far away and they ended up in HN, not intentionally fled there

[winged trench]

They despised her control

[mighty crag]

Were they afraid or jealous of her power?

[edgy stone]

Its all the citafel itself

[lusty forum]

But I guess, do we know exactly WHEN they showed up? Was it around the beginning of Pale King's rule, before, or after Hallownest was established?

[winged trench]

All we know is they were there at latest when the infection had already showed up

[craggy smelt]

yeah, outside the Citadel the pilgrims are all focused on the Citadel itself, inside they do seem to revere the 'heart' of things, i.e. Silk's cocoon

[lean temple]

Idk if that is stated anywhere

[edgy stone]

We dont know how important worship would be to silk as the creatures we know that do need it are on the weirder side

[mighty crag]

I wonder if there are any other kingdoms in the HK world

[vital goblet]

That I don’t think we know. All we really get from that time is in the red memory when Herrah is talking about becoming a dreamer to baby hornet

[hasty flint]

Slightly off topic, but just how many gods do you think lie on the floor of the abyss? start of act 3 seems like it isn't the shamans' first rodeo

[winged trench]

They mention several in the cradle
"City of steel" being one

[craggy smelt]

bound to be
bug kingdoms all over the place

[lusty forum]

Yeah, the only concrete thing I think we know is that herrah was there by the time the radiance was sealed in the HK already, but dunno if we have anything from before that

[vital goblet]

The dead city above pharloom would indicate this is likely

[edgy stone]

We know at least of one kingdom that still stands with the steel city

[hasty flint]

it seems like a known method, so there are probably at least a few dead higher/pale beings down there

[edgy stone]

Every other kingdom we've heard of might already be dead

[craggy smelt]

certainly there are other lands and smaller settlements - Ze'mer from the first game came from 'lands serene'

[edgy stone]

But we have the steel kingdom confirmed to be alive

[mighty crag]

I also wonder how deep in the ground these bug kingdoms are

[lean temple]

Yes especially that the Steel Masters seem to have their eyes everywhere

[vital goblet]

Oh Shakra also mentions her tribe is fairly solitary, so that’s out there somewhere

[craggy smelt]

as far down as the abyss, and probably up a lot higher