sk-lore

[rancid dirge]

other conceptual gods might be NKG i think ?

not nkg but that heart i don’t remember the name

[vital yacht]

Could be a case of unreliable narrator, but idk, seems like if TC wanted Radiance to be considered a pale being, they would've made mention of it.

[limber anvil]

So does it go higher being pale being conceptual god?

[spark valve]

there's no ranking system

[obsidian quail]

decent parents?

[rancid dirge]

conceptual god, they’re the concept of things themselves

[obsidian quail]

not pale

[rancid dirge]

ye

[limber anvil]

Outside of the countless dead kids the hollowknight and hornet had good upbrinings

[rancid dirge]

yeah but i think radiance is pretty much more powerful than GMS or pale king

[obsidian quail]

i don’t remember white lady raising hornet

[limber anvil]

Red memory

[obsidian quail]

and we don’t know much about HK upbringing

[rancid dirge]

nothing abt it in hk only in silksong they mention it at the end

[polar yacht]

Are there any details about how the Weavers lulled GMS into slumber or was it literally just that easy and they did it and that's all we have

[obsidian quail]

when did white lady say she raised hornet in red memory?

[spark valve]

they had to build the whole ass citadel to keep her asleep that's hardly easy

[vital yacht]

I think pale would be considered a breed of higher beings, like how huskies are a dog, but a dog is not a husky.

[limber anvil]

Reddit post from ages ago
Daughter of 3 queens
Born by herra
Trained by vespa
Educated and raised by the white lady

[craggy smelt]

"all pale beings are higher beings, not all higher beings are pale beings"

[polar yacht]

I don't think it was the whole citadel. Likely just the cradle.

No matter what, how did she not notice. Is she stupid?

[limber anvil]

The radiance is pale... In color

[vapid pendant]

I find it funny that the bird creature at mount fay is probably a higher being considering the herald saw it as important enough to have a conversation with it

[limber anvil]

True

[spark valve]

no, it's the whole thing.

[polar yacht]

2 braincells

[tawdry flare]

The song of the Citadel is what kept her asleep isn’t it

[craggy smelt]

nah, just some unusual bug
like Bardoon

[obsidian quail]

Hornet was raised in deepnest

[spark valve]

yes

[rancid dirge]

they had a conversation together ?

i don’t remember that...

[spark valve]

the citadel is a giant instrument designed to continuously make music to keep grand mother silk asleep

[vapid pendant]

Yep

[obsidian quail]

but White Lady had affection for her and they definitely were around each other

[limber anvil]

But its cute.. I'm sad it had no hunters journel entry about hornet gushing about how fluffy it is

[rancid dirge]

did she make it or that wasn’t her choice

[limber anvil]

The developers explained the concept on reddit years ago

[spark valve]

she didn't make it the weavers did

[vapid pendant]

I really dont think so
Everything around it just screams its important but we just dont know why

[rancid dirge]

is herald an higher being

[tawdry flare]

It’s just a giant puppy I don’t think it’s that important

[craggy smelt]

there are powerful and unusual entities in the world, not all of them are necessarily higher being status
the Weavers felt this one was significant and built some of their structures there

[craggy smelt]

maybe

[tawdry flare]

He’s a meta character isn’t he

[void smelt]

Who's this guy ?

[obsidian quail]

that was an old concept

[rancid dirge]

honestly he’s like a spectator, immortal being that just went through the ages and have seen everything

[tawdry flare]

That’s the Twelfth Architect

[obsidian quail]

hornet was raised in deepnest

[rancid dirge]

an architect

[limber anvil]

And its likely still canon

[limber anvil]

They said she left at one point

[obsidian quail]

it isn’t because she was raised in deepnest

but no doubt mentored by white lady

[tawdry flare]

Proof

[void smelt]

Yeah, but why he obey our orders

[obsidian quail]

but i wouldn’t go so far as a parent

[tawdry flare]

They’re just making stuff

[vapid pendant]

Since your boss is gone, why not create stuff for a creature that seems familiar

[void smelt]

Who is his boss?

[lean temple]

True ending route kinda confirms daughter of 3 queens. The Hive even forged Hornet's Needle.

[nova sluice]

Even if Lace is artificial, do we know if she is considered a weaver?

[obsidian quail]

White Lady can be a mentor figure and not a parent

[rancid dirge]

i don’t think she is

[obsidian quail]

i’m saying white lady didn’t raise her as a mother

[sinful nimbus]

Coping..

[craggy smelt]

yeah, in the three queens thing I guess it's more like tutored than raised now

[lean temple]

Well yes, but it still stands all three were influential on her. Vespas was her mentor.

[obsidian quail]

that unused concept definitely inspired canon though

[obsidian quail]

we agree on that

[lean temple]

We also see Hornet having to wear a pale cloak in the white palace, at least when she's talking with WL

[craggy smelt]

that was cute

[obsidian quail]

what does that mean

[craggy smelt]

Pale Court Hornet

[nova sluice]

Maybe it was just a sign of respect?

[rancid dirge]

Pale Hornet

[obsidian quail]

i think so too

[naive cargo]

YOOO Pale ore Mentioned

[lean temple]

Yeah and the pale monarchs maybe didn't like her looking like a Weaver who knows

[naive cargo]

now this is the hollow knight refs I wanted

[rancid dirge]

she was part of the royal family, got adopted by PK and WL but raised in deepnest

[vapid pendant]

Prob weavers or bugs that were working with them

[obsidian quail]

i think everything u said before the word but was headcanon

[vital yacht]

Hornet was acclimated enough with the nobility of the Royal Family to know that some Nobles would've liked to use the Mount Fay creatures as pets.

[rancid dirge]

i’m still mad they didn’t mention radiance

[nova sluice]

I thought she went straight from Herrah to Vespa, I don't even know when WL came into play on raising her

[tawdry flare]

Why would they have mentioned Radiance

[lean temple]

Weavers were evolved from Pharlids. Lace wasn't. She can't use Silk powers as far as we know and she isn't a spider. So no.

[void smelt]

btw, why is he still working? (he is like a machine or what)

[rancid dirge]

uh it’s a theory, that what i interpreted

[obsidian quail]

but it’s not true

[vital yacht]

Also for the raised by WL point, she could've either
A) spent her Developmental years at both deepness @ white palace, similar to kids who have separated parents

[vapid pendant]

I mean its a robot, it didnt get an order to stop so it keeps going

[rancid dirge]

a lot of this aren’t true when it comes to theorizing abt hollow knight

[vital yacht]

Or B) spent her early years at deepnest, then spent her formulative years at the white palace

[rancid dirge]

i mean there is tons of missing elements

[vapid pendant]

I hope silksong dlc's will more focus on the lore and not just: haha funny new bosses

[craggy smelt]

trobbio will return...

[rancid dirge]

they will add a real path of pain and the hardest boss TC ever made

[obsidian quail]

yeah but we know she was raised in deepnest

[nova sluice]

Ye, I suppose. My thoughts came from that fact that she is entirely made out of weaver's silk, so that could give her some powers over it
But she never shows it anyway, even on the brink of defeat

[rancid dirge]

with a white cloak this time

[craggy smelt]

i don't want any harder jumping puzzles after the cradle

[rancid dirge]

that what i said ?

[vapid pendant]

One boss im sure will get a comeback in a dlc is 4th chorus
Such a cool boss fight but not a single rematch

[marsh cave]

also what’s up with the bugs that make pale oil
they have to be something special

[tawdry flare]

I NEED PATH OF PAIN 2

[obsidian quail]

yeah and nothing has ever said she was adopted by WL and PK, and it’s kinda useless to adopt something and not raise it

[sinful nimbus]

The infection is referenced a few times

[obsidian quail]

why bother

[stray scaffold]

I think it's safe to assume she spent some time in both WP and deepnest

[craggy smelt]

maybe pale touched, like Palestag

[marsh cave]

||red memory does though||

[stray scaffold]

She was born from herrah and pk I'm pretty sure

[lean temple]

Phantom was also strung from Silk but couldn't control it. GMS didn't give them those powers.

[vapid pendant]

I still find it funny that the only thing hornet remembers pale king for is spikes and buzzsaws

[burnt summit]

Yo actually, what was up with that butterfly that frees hornet at the start??? Who sent that?

[marsh cave]

yes

[obsidian quail]

red memory doesn’t say anything that says White Lady adopted her

[vapid pendant]

Lace

[lean temple]

Lace

[obsidian quail]

but she was definitely a mentor figure to some extent

[burnt summit]

For what reason?

[lean temple]

She doesn't need to adopt her step daughter

[nova sluice]

True, but Phantom felt like a beta version of Lace, so maaaaybe Lace was the finished product since Silk afaik stopped there

[sinful nimbus]

She opposes Grand Mother Silk

[lean temple]

Possible

[vapid pendant]

Didnt want hornet to go to the citadel and fight Gms

[burnt summit]

Sure, makes sense

[obsidian quail]

i’m not the one who said she was adopted

[marsh cave]

lace is a professional ragebaiter she would do well on twitter

[rancid dirge]

yes but i mean radiance should have been mentioning knowing how powerful she is, even if she got pretty much forgotten i think we should some old writtings mentioning the existence of a light deity

[runic musk]

And then its just Trobbio again!

[obsidian quail]

who cares about that hag Radiance

[runic musk]

Already have 3 Lace fights what's 3 Trobbio fights

[rancid dirge]

i do

[sinful nimbus]

She never was in Pharloom though

[vapid pendant]

I still question tc logic to make 3 lace fights

[lean temple]

It seems the story of Hallownest ended a long time ago. It's possible the Radiance was completely forgotten. We don't know what happened to the Dream realm after she was killed.

[obsidian quail]

pharloom doesn’t and thank Silk

[stray scaffold]

She never actually knows about radiance I don't think, beyond being the source of the infection

[sinful nimbus]

Rule of cool

[obsidian quail]

i hate radiance

[marsh cave]

absolute cinema

[sinful nimbus]

Lace 3 goes hard

[craggy smelt]

yeah, that doesn't hold a candle to THK/Rad as a final encounter, in terms of story

[marsh cave]

lost lace is peak

[spark valve]

yeah we do it's fine

[obsidian quail]

i think Lace is supposed to be a parallel to the vessels and a Hornet foil

[runic musk]

Someone I know got disappointed that true final boss was basically "but its Radahn again!"

[vapid pendant]

Im gonna say it over and over again
Lost lace WAS peak but
Not final boss worthy

[lean temple]

PK and co definitely knew there was a Higher Being behind the infection. Hornet would know by proxy

[marsh cave]

the red memory-dive cutscene-lost lace-sister of the void ending sequence is amazing

[craggy smelt]

Lost Lace is okay as a fight, but I wasn't too excited about a 3rd version of a fight I'd had twice already, however much extra shit they threw in it

[lean temple]

Yeah same

[dense chasm]

it's just fast tho, no substance

[stray scaffold]

I guess so, but likely not by name (I don't think anything names radiance in universe other than her title card)

I might be wrong tho

[craggy smelt]

also I just don't really like Lace as a character personally, so I wasn't that invested in Hornet getting invested

[runic musk]

At least they gave her unique Void attacks instead of just slapping on the basic Void attacks and called it a day for the most part like they did with a certain Steel Soul boss.

[lean temple]

The Seer

[vapid pendant]

My favorite part is lace appearing from void without any indicator so she can literally appear inside hornet without warning and deal dmg
Peak fight

[lean temple]

Yeah Lost Lace was all over the place

[dense chasm]

but its easy to cheese tho with tools

[stray scaffold]

Oh, ig that makes sense because moth
Still feels unlikely that info would make it to hornet tho

[obsidian quail]

contact damage in that fight sucked

[rancid dirge]

it would have make sense seeing a group of npc worshipping a figure representing radiance, we got some fanatics praying a fire divinity and a non-insect being, radiance being part of pharloom, even just a reference could have been done

[nova sluice]

From what I understood the 3 citadel musicians locked Silk with music, right? Or at least the entrance to her region. Did the weavers had any part on that? Like teaching them how or anything

[stray scaffold]

Are there even any bosses in this game that ppl do like

[lean temple]

The problem was they already revealed Grand Mother Silk in Act 2 and the Knight was the saviour so there was like no other big bad they could throw in

[vapid pendant]

I really wanted to just melt her with cogflies but decided i wont cheese a final boss like that

[obsidian quail]

there are male Weavers right

[limpid summit]

No

[vapid pendant]

First sinner and karmela

[rancid dirge]

i do like a lot

[runic musk]

I think Lost Lace is just barely worse than Karmelita but I also no hit her (practiced for 2 hours) so thats probably why (not saying they are bad at all)

Speaking of which Karmelita peak fight and I love how deflecting is strong there.

[craggy smelt]

I wish I could easily fight Silk again, that was actually a really enjoyable fight
lotta parallels with Radiance, I found them fun

[limpid summit]

All the Weaver tablets say sister

[dense chasm]

I was thinking the same but the boss is just nopt worth it

[obsidian quail]

no male Weavers?

[dense chasm]

its really mid boss

[rancid dirge]

weaver, first sinner, GMS, dancers and karmelita indeed

[lean temple]

All the Weavers appear to have been female

[limpid summit]

WHEE
Widow was really fun and I like Cursed GMS it actually feels like a final boss cause you can’t get hit

[obsidian quail]

so how would Hornet be half Weaver

[limpid summit]

Weavers can have kids

[stray scaffold]

It would be kinda cool, I'm just not sure how much sense it makes in canon. That's what fan work is for tho

[lean temple]

Herrah is a Weaver

[limpid summit]

It’s just difficult

[obsidian quail]

indeed

but Hornet is 1/2 weaver

[neat sandal]

true. I have no heart beating moment like final ladder in radiance fight.
it just end. kinda off

[craggy smelt]

ignore all the little Weavers in Deepnest

[dense chasm]

Herrah is probably a weaver

[nova sluice]

All the mentions and weavers we know of are female. This doesn't strongly states that they can only be female but I suppose it heavily implies

[craggy smelt]

her Weaver mother was Herrah, her Wyrm father was the Pale King

[vapid pendant]

Arent male weavers the smaller spiders often seen in dream sequences

[obsidian quail]

guys

[stray scaffold]

hi, I relapsed on lore discussion so I'm back here again

[obsidian quail]

Hornet is 1/2 Weaver

[craggy smelt]

we're all well aware

[obsidian quail]

that means Herrah is full Weaver

so how does Herrah have two Weaver parents

[vapid pendant]

Herrah is a weird case
She seems weaver but also not

[limpid summit]

We aren’t sure about Herrah’s Weaver status

[craggy smelt]

Herrah was probably one of the weavers created by Silk

[limpid summit]

Nothing suggests she’s from Pharloom

[rancid dirge]

so weird to me that the most powerful being of hallownest just got forgotten in another kingdom

while the void didn’t

[nova sluice]

I can only imagine if Hornet was born in a magical way or if the small PK had to deal with that huge Herrah somehow

[obsidian quail]

what do u mean, she’s full Weaver

[stray scaffold]

Being forgotten is a theme

[limpid summit]

As in how she is one

[obsidian quail]

no way Herrah is that old

[vapid pendant]

Not really

[dense chasm]

well during the weaver queen ending our herast turn to Herrahs mask

[limpid summit]

She looks different from the other Weavers very different body type and leg count

[obsidian quail]

she is full Weaver

[stray scaffold]

It's kinda ironic that radiance gets no mention because not being forgotten was her main motive

[dense chasm]

She porbabbly has a lot of silk or smth

[spark valve]

herrah is a weaver it's weird but explicitly the case atp

[neat sandal]

bug born from egg bro.

[obsidian quail]

because hornet is Half weaver

[dense chasm]

so thats why she looks diffrent

[rancid dirge]

i even thought she wasn’t dead at this point, conceptual god are meant to live forever and pratically unkillable

[stray scaffold]

Higher beings are more like norse gods than greek ones, they can definitely die

[nova sluice]

Yes...so? Bugs still need to bang

[marsh cave]

she’s not relevant in harpoon ig

[vapid pendant]

Herrah is more like a pure weaver
Just a very powerfull spider that wasnt created from GMS

[obsidian quail]

ur just making stuff up

[dense chasm]

Whats GMS?

[nova sluice]

Idk about that "very powerful" tho

[vapid pendant]

Look at very weaver we ever see and then at herrah

[rancid dirge]

wasn’t because of a jealousy against the pale king ? Not forgotten but her worshipped turned to another god to pray

[nova sluice]

Grand Mother Silk

[obsidian quail]

yeah her being a weaver was a retcon

[marsh cave]

what were they doing down there in weavenest absolom

[obsidian quail]

taking a gander at the void

[dense chasm]

Maybe Herahh is half Weaver like hornet?

[obsidian quail]

looks like they were studying and said actually maybe we shouldn’t mess with this

[stable fjord]

I am a bit confused on the timeline, weavers fled to hallownest and then went back to pharloom? or did they leave hallownest for somewhere comepletly different?

[nova sluice]

I wouldn't at all call that a retcon. It just wasn't that important back thn to be explained

[obsidian quail]

nah because hornet would be 1/4 weaver

[stray scaffold]

Oh true that is part of it, but PK was also stealing all of her followers so she was being remembered by less and less ppl

[dense chasm]

So?

[vapid pendant]

Also i cant remember but do we see hollow knights shade in the true ending or only the knight and other siblings

[obsidian quail]

hornet is 1/2 weaver

[neat sandal]

idk. probably IVF

[nova sluice]

For a frame

[lean temple]

Fled Pharloom for Hallownest then went back after the Infection started

[marsh cave]

hk holds open radiances face lol

[spark valve]

hornet is a half weaver
pk is 0% weaver
therefore herrah must be a full weaver

[stable fjord]

hornet eludes to her in diolouge on lifeblood

[rancid dirge]

infection is a way for her to have a physical presence, making people noticing her

[stable fjord]

flakey ass spiders

[stray scaffold]

No thk shade but we see the godhome ending thing

[vapid pendant]

I meant silksongs true ending lol

[stray scaffold]

Yeah

[lean temple]

Yeah we do see the Shadelord

[marsh cave]

oh no
i assume thk is alive in hallownest bc its post godhood end

[spark valve]

the ss ending is ambiguous between etv and dnm

[lean temple]

So probably EtV is canon

[nova sluice]

I mean, unless Herrah is a direct weaver from GMS she must be the daughter of a weaver + normal male spider I suppose

[lean temple]

True

[vapid pendant]

Hm..
No hk shade might actually make a godhome ending beliver

[foggy fractal]

silent correct buzzer: ding ding !

[obsidian quail]

the latter is impossible and the former is insane, she’s lived a long time

[lean temple]

She's a full Weaver. Widow says "daughter of Wyrm and Weaver"

[stray scaffold]

Is herrah the only weaver who looks that different?

[vapid pendant]

Yes

[nova sluice]

Doesn't mean full weaver tho, as in directly 1:1 from gms

[marsh cave]

maybe any female spider can learn the weaver craft

[obsidian quail]

Hornet is specifically 1/2 Weaver

[lean temple]

Therefore, Herrah is 100% full Weaver

[stray scaffold]

I feel like herrah might just be some sort of special case

[obsidian quail]

this retcon has us doing gymnastics

where’s Star

[lean temple]

It was already alluded to enough

[vapid pendant]

The only logical explanation i can see for herrah looking like that is her just saying "I dont want this stupid round mask" and going naked

[spark valve]

Full Chamber to the kingdom of the White Wyrm. Claim the Weaver, in half part. Last of their line. Sensed strong with Silk

[craggy smelt]

she was probably designed in the first game as a beast without specifically being a Weaver, and they changed it for this game so she's just a Weaver that looks different

[spark valve]

people decided to be weird and ableist to her last time it came up so

[nova sluice]

What? Why impossible and insane?
I don't think there is even another option here

[lean temple]

GMS also tried getting Weavers in 4th and 8th parts

[obsidian quail]

that’s what they did, and now we have to do mental gymnastics about Herrah

[tawdry flare]

didn't she go for a 12th as well

[stray scaffold]

I like trying to fit all the lore of a game/series together even if the ppl who made the lore didn't have those ideas in mind
Death of the author etc etc

[spark valve]

sure you can handwave it but it's still a retcon

[craggy smelt]

First Sinner had a different mask from other weavers as well, not as much as herrah, but not the complete sphere

[lean temple]

Yeah. And they mention many other lands besides Hallownest and Pharloom

[spark valve]

ultimately it doesn't really matter why herrah looks different she just Is Like That™

[lean temple]

Because it was broken

[dense chasm]

well maybe Weavers with alot of silk look like that. Hornet turn to smth very similar to Herrah during "weaver queen" ending

[spark valve]

no she doesn't

[stray scaffold]

Yes but it's fun to come up with our own explanations

[craggy smelt]

don't think so, you see her in the cutscene when the first weaver is created, it starts out that way

[stray scaffold]

Although you run into russel's teapot at a certain point

[obsidian quail]

wow, that’s crazy because Star does nothing but express her opinion respectfully

[lean temple]

Oh? I hadn't noticed

[craggy smelt]

that's either FS or another Weaver like her

[vapid pendant]

Prob fs

[lean temple]

So she really is ancient

[craggy smelt]

mhmm

[obsidian quail]

soo i think we have to headcanon that Herrah is just really old

[craggy smelt]

plenty of bugs in this world are weirdly ancient
especially if they're connected with hbs

[lean temple]

It seems the Weavers in general were old. First Sinner was still alive

[spark valve]

first sinner wasn't really alive

[lean temple]

Widow too

[spark valve]

we see her in the state that weaver corpses in the funerary towers are throughout the kingdom, and the actual fight seems to take place in some sort of memory

[stray scaffold]

Oh yeah widow looks kinda weird as well

[craggy smelt]

widow I think is referred to in the cradle as being a part weaver, staked to service, so later generation

[vapid pendant]

That entire fight and area is weird
Why after dying to FS we dont really die and just wake up before the door

[craggy smelt]

she's described as having her mask removed though

[lean temple]

We don't know if GMS just created them at once and then stopped or if she kept making Weavers as time passed.

[polar yacht]

It's not the structure itself per se but the culture interwoven with the infrastructure

Vaultkeeper pontiff needolin lines: "We sang your chains... We prayed a cage.."

[stray scaffold]

It could be cool if herrah was just like, a really ancient weaver, although we don't have much evidence for that

[spark valve]

it's the structure there was a cultural break when the citadel took over and they just kept the music going

[vapid pendant]

Probably stopped at one point. Thats why the search for part weavers started

[nova sluice]

Maybe GMS was bad at creating weavers at first and FS was an experiment, just like Phantom feeling like a beta Lace

[lean temple]

She could just be a genetic mutant for some reason

[tawdry flare]

"oh this pharlid looks sick lemme ascend it rq"

[obsidian quail]

that’s the only thing that makes sense

[lean temple]

Or being queen of her tribe has something with it

[spark valve]

pharlids don't all have the same head shapes

[polar yacht]

FS would have been a sinner only in the eyes of the Conductors.

[obsidian quail]

but she’s specifically said to be a common beast

[foggy fractal]

hey lore peeps do we have silksong all sprites yet

[obsidian quail]

it’s so clearly a retcon

[spark valve]

both pharlids

[obsidian quail]

common beast -> super ancient Weaver

[lean temple]

This is likely if she started out with her mask still vaguely shaped like a Pharlid

[polar yacht]

Ok not ONLY the conductors but it was undoubtedly the conductors that imprisoned her first

[spark valve]

nah

[lean temple]

Common beast in Deepnest standards. She was a refugee

[spark valve]

would make zero sense for conductors to imprison her for denying the divinity of weavers after they wiped them out lmao

[nova sluice]

Is there any chance Herrah was hiding being a Weaver for protection?

[lean temple]

Her sin is apostasy so she likely denounced GMS as a goddess

[nova sluice]

Maybe on Hallownest weavers didn't want to call for too much attention or else Pharloom would find them

[vapid pendant]

Also, do we know which district was behind whiteward experiments? Or was it a "everybody is on it" type of situation

[lean temple]

From whom? The Weavers could already hold their own in a fight. Granted now her marrying the Deepnest king does seem like a good diplomatic gesture.

[obsidian quail]

we’re just gonna have to go with this even though Weavers are seen as a special group in deepnest

[lean temple]

Possible

[lean temple]

Everybody was in. The Silk was imbedded in everyone for generations. That's a very large scale operation

[polar yacht]

Was TFS part of the plan to imprison GMS in the first place?

[spark valve]

probably not

[nova sluice]

Did team cherry at any point have an open Q&A on Reddit or something about HK lore and etc?

[vapid pendant]

Yeah but just wondered who was the first to even have the idea to start doing it

[spark valve]

the citadel is both church and cage, even after putting gms to sleep the weavers might not be fans of heresy against her

[craggy smelt]

'common beast' was how the shrumal referred to her. shows what they know...

[umbral crown]

Where are the SSMODS tags located?

[lean temple]

Eh they still have valid knowledge on PK

[obsidian quail]

should have just made male Weavers and headache gone

[vapid pendant]

Arent the medium sized weavers in dream sequences male?

[polar yacht]

Cage for the bugs and GMS hence this line from the folly of Pharloom: "They forget your heart, bound in slumber and servitude"

[nova sluice]

I don't think we know that for sure

[spark valve]

cage and church
she's trapped but they still worshipped her as a god

[craggy smelt]

we don't know of any male weavers
First Sinner mentions Silk calling the weavers her 'daughters'

[vapid pendant]

Huh
I was under the impresion the tall ones are female and the medium sized are male

[nova sluice]

Afaik nothing states that weaver can only be female BUT all the ones we know of are female so it's kinda implied I guess

[spark valve]

"Sisters, spiders"
"She called us daughters"

[craggy smelt]

all their tablets refer to 'sisters'

[nova sluice]

As I said, nothing states they can only be female

[polar yacht]

they worshipped her at first. But after the Conductors grabbed for power they saw to it that GMS was forgotten and eventually they forgot she existed.

[spark valve]

these indicate they are all female 😐

[lean temple]

Also how exactly did Pharloom Weavers know about Hornet? Did Herrah keep them updated? The whole Widow dialogue and the "daughter of a distant land we have waited long"

[spark valve]

the conductors still worshipped her

[foggy fractal]

wow really ?

[spark valve]

Pilgrim of Pharloom eternal, regale us with our Threefold song, that you may rise above and worship before our kingdom's divine heart.

[vapid pendant]

I mean its not often a weaver is also a pale being.
News travel far

[nova sluice]

Not really, it just says that those are females, not all, it's different

[spark valve]

reading is hard isn't it

[lean temple]

By that logic GMS would've caught wind ages ago

[nova sluice]

Indeed, I would say the same

[craggy smelt]

there's references to her as 'sensed strong with silk' and similar
I got the impression that Silk was tracking the Weavers somehow through their magic

[spark valve]

"nothing indicates that they're all female it's just the case that whenever they're referred to as a collective it's explicitly as all female"

sure man

[lean temple]

Hmm. It's possible they could sense what was going on there, which GMS also did eventually

[foggy fractal]

maybe i should do 100% steel soul
tammo do you have faith in me

[nova sluice]

I never said "indicated"......again? Read what I said my little friend

[spark valve]

no

[foggy fractal]

FUCK

[vapid pendant]

Maybe hallownest was an unknown kingdom and only after radiance was killed other kingdoms realized it even exists

[polar yacht]

But at the same time one of the conductors says that "Only one monarch's claws ever clutched this kingdom, though we raised our voices to cry otherwise"

[craggy smelt]

there's a message in Atla about hiding from her sight deep below, so she has some kind of eye for the Weavers

[spark valve]

...
yes because he's saying their rule was ephemeral and doomed

[lean temple]

More likely GMS wasn't aware at the time or hadn't looked there yet

[spark valve]

gms is only waking up recently

[foggy fractal]

y'know what ? I'm gonna do 100% steel soul just to spite Tammo

[vapid pendant]

Honestly gms seems like she doesnt even know whats happening half the time lol. Girl is living is her small bubble

[spark valve]

if you do 100% silksong steel soul without quitting out and record the whole thing I will admit I was wrong

[gloomy path]

100% steelsong 🦾

[craggy smelt]

there's a Citadel command to go to the 'kingdom of the White Wyrm' and this would likely have been long after it fell

[polar yacht]

Their form of resistance was ironically worship but they weren't worshipping *for" her they were worshipping against her

[foggy fractal]

😔 without quitting out ??

[lean temple]

It already seems Hallownest ended a long time before silksong

[spark valve]

the citadel caste didn't know what the fuck they were doing they were just doing what the weavers before them did

[craggy smelt]

yeah, though someone still knows it was PK's kingdom

[gloomy path]

i think the radiance dying in the dream sent shockwaves that woke gms up

[spark valve]

it didn't

[gloomy path]

just slightly

[lean temple]

Possible because Wyrms are just super powerful. Godseeker was also able to track Hallownest from his lingering power.

[nova sluice]

I don't think they would pass the chance to mention that if that was the case

[barren valley]

😦

[spark valve]

Our mortal mob did once act some defiance, unawares maybe, but successful in part, goaded towards it by Weavers' will'n all.[Hornet]:You speak of the Citadel? Its former function has failed, but I can still sense its purpose, some. It is church and cage both.[NPC]:Aye. Devised by your ancestors that monstrosity, and their wicked, clever minds. A system, or a web they'd likely call it, a way to keep their mother sealed in slumber, and themselves free to lavish in their false rule
this part is about the citadel caste continuing to suppress gms by just doing what the weavers were doing before without knowing what or why

[gloomy path]

how would anyone know? the gms immediately started the haunting making the caste go insane

[vapid pendant]

I really wish one day team cherry would just release a map of the entire hollow knight world so we at least know where the fuck those kingdoms are lol

[craggy smelt]

higher beings also seem weirdly knowledgeable about each other
Grimm know all about the wyrm and the vessels and he was in Hallownest for like a hot second
maybe Silk clued in whoever wrote the commandment

[barren valley]

I think grimm is just a knower

[lean temple]

Likely yeah. Silk is also a Pale Being so you know they're kin in that sense

[vapid pendant]

Nightmare heart is literally a higher being

[nova sluice]

I suppose in many cases it's best to left some things in the dark instead of creating way more lore problems and questions

[barren valley]

yeah he’s a higher being, but he’s also a knower, which is why he knows

[torpid basalt]

I just beat First Sinner an oh my god. Did Grandma Silk make the weavers?

[lean temple]

Yes

[gloomy path]

forcefully evolved

[fathom zenith]

Who's this from?

[spark valve]

mask maker

[vapid pendant]

I wonder if there is even one kingdom in the entire world that is above the surface and not underground

[nova sluice]

We do see some construction on nameless town so it seems possible, at least at some point in time

[gloomy path]

why would they subject themselves to hell like that, underground worked just fine everywhere, till it didn't

[craggy smelt]

even the surface is underground

[vapid pendant]

Ah yes "worked"
I love me some infection and a curse

[gloomy path]

because the mentioned bugs messed with fucking gods

they were fine underground

[quartz flicker]

It's still really interesting how there's absolutely no indication of a Sun, Moon, or other celestial bodies in this universe.

[nova sluice]

Did the mantis tribe fiddle with problems like gods, void and etc? They seem somewhat chill regarding world-ending stuff

[lean temple]

Yeah they just seem to exist? Like idk what they're origin is, them and the bees too.

[nova sluice]

The hive died purely by infection iirc, and Vespa was too big to leave. Also a somewhat chill tribe

[lean temple]

Ik that, I'm talking origins

[polar yacht]

When it came to the song yes, but the actual grand scheme of things they fully understood why they were playing the song.

After giving it some thought and doing more research you are 100% right about the Conductors worshipping GMS though.

I still don't think they were always worshipping her but it was a slow realization that they were just delaying the inevitable.

[quartz flicker]

Does the HK universe even have what we think of as space, or is it just more rock if you go far enough in any direction.

[nova sluice]

Ye ye, just thinking about how they all just got caught up on all the weird problems

[timber pond]

Hornet immediately recognized Mr mushroom and was like "nah my homie, he chill ill go talk" so it might go beyond that lol

[spark valve]

they didn't know why they were playing the song

[vapid pendant]

Mark my words
The 3rd game is gonna be about a giant kingdom, maybe even a capitol of the entire world that was made on the surface and its gonna have a cyberpunk theme

[spark valve]

Our mortal mob did once act some defiance, unawares maybe, but successful in part,

unawares

[polar yacht]

The mob played the song unaware not the conductors

[lean temple]

They did manage to stay relatively out of things. Vespa helped with Hornet but in general they minded their business. However it does seem in Silksong time they're long dead

[spark valve]

the conductors are part of the mortal mob he's talking about

[nova sluice]

We still have 7 years of SS dlcs before that

[vapid pendant]

Aware

[lean temple]

If Hornet knows him so well PK and WL surely know him too

[spark valve]

Our mortal mob did once act some defiance, unawares maybe, but successful in part, goaded towards it by Weavers' will'n all
They're explicitly just copying the weavers

[timber pond]

He only shows up when heroic deeds are done and an age is at an end it seems.

Also his dioluge is funny, because this time around he indicates that there will be more hollowknight content EVEN MORE than he suggested his first time around hallownest lmao

[fair zealot]

so, does the "plasmium" infection potentially imply that lifeblood has some sort of natural predators? and it's an invasive species in pharloom?

[polar yacht]

Well Conductor Ballador understood, saying "Now, in our Citadel's silence, we share their truth. Only one monarch's claws ever clutched this kingdom, though we raised our voices to cry otherwise. Would you see her, pilgrim? Up there at our Citadel's crown? Reach those heights we'd hoped to hide and bow before this land's true ruler."

[lean temple]

Yeah he heralds the passing of an age and the coming of a new one

[dark harbor]

why was the last sinner so mean to hornet even tho she’s a spider too

[spark valve]

yes, NOW THAT THE CITADEL IS SILENT he SHARES THEIR TRUTH because he LEARNED NEW STUFF

[vapid pendant]

I still find it funny how the weavers see themselves as this elegant, powerful group but everybody else just sees them as megalomaniacs that crave dominance, control and destruction of others

[polar yacht]

you know what. U got a point

[gloomy path]

blud was mega mad and hornet was the closest bug, dude was stuck there for however long

[polar yacht]

hm ok I'm wrong

[dark harbor]

lmao

[wary plover]

Why do the mosquitoes of bilewater hum to the ost, that's so eerie

[timber pond]

I find it interesting he suggest at his actual conversation with hornet, that her nature as a plae being would play more of a role in understanding in whatever the next game is.

....grandma hornet in the hollow knight builder game.😭

[vapid pendant]

I just pray every day team cherry wont make lace the main character of the next game
I really dont care about her

[timber pond]

The Hollow Knight as main chracter in the Steel City

[dark harbor]

wait does anyone know the deal with the weird beast banging on the door to the right of Pilgrim’s Rest

[timber pond]

Raging against his nature and his brothers or sum shit idk

[gloomy path]

my boy the hollow knight as a playable character pls, but idk what he's gonna do without his king, and kingdom, only thing left there for him is the queen

[timber pond]

There's a secret entrance to that somewhere

[dark harbor]

bro what where

[gloomy path]

i missed that area til act 3, by that point my boi banging the door was gone 😭

[timber pond]

Go ask #sk-help chat i can't remember specifically

[dark harbor]

cam typin up an essay

[spark valve]

just one of these

[vapid pendant]

They look so sad

[dark harbor]

can you find them anywhere else

[spark valve]

one in memorium

[vapid pendant]

In act 3 i swear there is one void-ified somewhere next to bone bottom

[lean temple]

When I found the Mister Mushroom tablet in Pale lake by myself I lost my mind. Also a fitting place to be, PALE LAKE

[vapid pendant]

The word "pale" is like a trigger at this point

[spark valve]

tc just loves the word at this point

[polar yacht]

Yeah ok... ur right.

I just find it hard to believe and honestly more compelling if the conductors understood why they were singing but the common bugs didn't, and they recognized that whoever controlled GMS controlled Pharloom.

The Conductors created a brutal caste system, ruthless societal mechanisms, a massive complex infrastructure and a pilgrimage to manufacture subservience across generations all for the cause of not really personal gain but... just mimicking whatever the guys before them were doing without knowing why.

kind of lame tbh

[spark valve]

I mean they did personally gain from it

they just also did so while keeping the citadel running which inadvertently had the effect of keeping gms asleep

[timber pond]

I feel like they are just gonna keep going if they find making this game that fun lol.

[polar yacht]

They did but if I were them I would be like wait why do we have the vast majority of our resources dedicated to keeping a bunch of worshippers in the choral chambers singing at all times

[vapid pendant]

Actually
Why was she even asleep
Like did they know exactly what would happen if she woke up

[obsidian quail]

i thought this was more referencing her Wyrm heritage and she has the potential for prescience

[vapid pendant]

Or was it just speculation

[spark valve]

that still keeps them docile and following orders it's not like the social engineering isn't still present

[gloomy path]

i'm still wondering what would have happened if hornet just woke her up instead of going yo wake tf up we gotta battle ts out

[timber pond]

Well yes, but he suggests in a time not far from now that those factors may come into play to shape a better world whatever that means

Means more content what it means

[vapid pendant]

And also why do some pale beings just refuse to speak
Radiance didnt
Gms didnt
Pale king we have no clue
And white lady is the only one that really talks

[polar yacht]

I mean true it's just infinitely more plausible for them to be dedicating the insane amount of resources to that one singular cause of constant sycophantic prayer if they understood the stakes but alas... I guess not

[timber pond]

Same with Nuu stating that there are more kingdoms to hunt after completing journal

[torpid basalt]

Pale beings probably don't even use discord

[gloomy path]

we dont know that, they might be here RIGHT NOW

[obsidian quail]

keep the system going, if ain’t broke don’t fix it

[spark valve]

the citadel itself became a symbol of their power, they're putting those resources into that too

why would they turn it off

[torpid basalt]

That's why I added the probably

[vapid pendant]

Pale king would just type "..." all the time with the rare "buzzsaws"

[gloomy path]

rare?

[spark valve]

they also got shit like the architects

[torpid basalt]

https://tenor.com/view/2d-platformer-hollow-knight-metroidvania-platformer-sawblades-gif-25671187

[polar yacht]

I'm not saying they'd turn it off but I feel like eventually they'd be like the new best form of prayer is not singing anymore! it is now hard labor or conquest like 90% of religions have done throughout history but nope was just song the whole time

[spark valve]

they do both

labor as a way to get absolution is like a huge theme with the slab and with the underworks laborers

[vapid pendant]

I mean that is a dream how pale king wanted the palace to look like.
In reality it probably had less buzzsaws.
Maybe like half

[polar yacht]

But you'd think at some point the balance would swing much more towards labor and away from the singing

[foggy fractal]

someone gotta make a lumafly for silksong I'm too dumb to place file x into place y I just want a click of a button and done :C

[spark valve]

not really there's no reason for the ritual elements to stop

[whole hawk]

Where did it say that Pharloom was an island again? I think I heard someone say that but I'm not sure if it was true.

[obsidian quail]

automatic confessional broke my heart

[polar yacht]

Logically, there is.

[fathom zenith]

do we know what exactly was the impetus for the weaver turning against gms? or is it an open question rn

[vapid pendant]

First i hear that

[spark valve]

Speak now. Thy confession will be heard.

...

You have confessed a sin most grave and must by works cleanse yourself.

Return to your task and work off-cycle, neither eating nor supping until new-cycle begins.

By the grace of Pharloom eternal may you never tire. Toil, and be forgiven.
idk why we're ignoring the confession stand anyways

[craggy smelt]

lol yeah I got really frustrated about how Hornet seems to know every damn thing but rarely shares it with the player
she knows about the Steel Masters but really says nothing about them... dammit girl, tell me the lore!

[dire flame]

I wasn't paying much attention when I started the silk and soul quest, what's about in the lore side?

[vapid pendant]

Why are all bugs either the biggest cinnamon rolls or the most ruthless dictators the world has seen

[craggy smelt]

i can only recall First Sinner saying that Silk lied to them

[stoic grove]

I want to make a list of all the nicknames hornet gets throughout the game. do you think this is the right chat to talk about that in?

[craggy smelt]

is that the one you get from Caretaker, and he sends you after the Chapel Maid and Bell Hermit?

[dire flame]

Yes

[obsidian quail]

kinda open question, we just know how they felt about GMS leading up to the sleep

[dire flame]

I already got the ending where you "absorb" the Grand mother silk powers and hornet kinda becomes a god, but what's about that quest?

[craggy smelt]

yeah, that's a big deal
Hornet is gearing up to take on Grand Mother Silk, but is worried her instincts will just lead her to replace them
so Caretaker suggests that they try binding Silk a different way, and sends her to get some stuff they'll need for a 'trap'

you saw Hornet replace her in the 'bad' ending, so that's what Hornet wants to avoid

they put the trap in place, and Hornet has to activate it playing the Needolin instead of binding her

then you get a different ending

[fathom zenith]

how exactly did you get that mask maker dialogue?

[dire flame]

Thanks! i searched through the wiki but it's a shame there are no transcripts available

[vapid pendant]

Getting everbloom made me think about something in hollow knight
Does the fragile flower also protect the knight in the void from the tendrils or it doesnt have the same effect?

[obsidian quail]

my theory is that she created Weavers but wanted to move on to fully Silk beings i think and the Weavers felt betrayed and like oppressed disposable tools

[craggy smelt]

yeah, give it time, still being filled out
I wish there was a full script available somewhere, but it's still early days

if one's out there, I haven't found it

[spark valve]

unmasking him with a charge attack

[foggy fractal]

I mean we do have every single silksong text

[craggy smelt]

well speak of the devil, got a link?

[foggy fractal]

but its unorganaized
and well... every single text in the game

[foggy fractal]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fXWZMaeHiBTY1D6P2cuO929M0iXIYTXdeMifmLQ71sA/edit?usp=sharing

[fathom zenith]

i only managed to get as far as him talking about hornet's transitional stage, then he ran out. is there something special i have to do after that?

[spark valve]

dunno

[fathom zenith]

and im in act 3 and everythin

[spark valve]

I didn't get it in game

[craggy smelt]

hmm, yeah,
still, thanks though, I can poke through it for specific stuff

[dire flame]

Letsfuckingooooooo

[graceful grail]

Wait, who wrote this???

[craggy smelt]

some citadel guy

ultimately some puppet of GMS

[graceful grail]

Is he saying what the wavers should do or documanting what happened??

[foggy fractal]

commandment issueing Hornet's capture

[graceful grail]

Ahh

[vapid pendant]

"White wyrm"
They for sure know more of them and im not only talking about the black wyrm

[fathom zenith]

so it's in the game but you havent personally triggered that dialogue, is that right?

[spark valve]

yes it's in the script

[fathom zenith]

gotacha

[vapid pendant]

Wait actually
We do get a map of other kingdoms in a way

There's a lore tablet in the weavenest part of far fields and there is a rune showing paths leading away from pharloom to other kingdoms

[craggy smelt]

that's right
a map to other kingdoms, at least

[lapis sluice]

so about that nameless town

[spark valve]

if nameless town is anything of substance it's probably where the bugs that would become the citadel caste first arrived in the kingdom

[vapid pendant]

That at least confirms there are MULTIPLE other kingdoms

[craggy smelt]

lands and kingdoms all over the damn place

[vapid pendant]

And we will get to see none!

[craggy smelt]

lands serene, city of steel, so and so...

[lapis sluice]

i mean they make a point of saying their seduction

[foggy fractal]

praying for boss refight mod soon 🙏

[lapis sluice]

somewhat interesting, wonder if there's any connection to any other bits

[vapid pendant]

If silksong is a complete opposite of hollow knight
With us fighting void in silksong and in hollow knight fighting light...
In holllow knight the bossrush ends with a harder version of the final boss..
So in silksong.. cant wait for a 4th version of the lace fight!!!

[craggy smelt]

ugh

Lost Trobbio instead

[vapid pendant]

Shade lord

[craggy smelt]

yeeeeah

Absolute Silk
Absolute Lace

[velvet zephyr]

you're both wrong we fight 2 savage beastflies

[vapid pendant]

Oh god

[lapis sluice]

So about that silk huh

[polar yacht]

Ok yes I understand the role that labor plays.

But Wait wait wait wait this detail can save my opinion of the lore. Was the religious and cultural structure of the entire citadel not manufactured by the common bug or the conductors but by the Weavers?

And then once the citadel was fully constructed and operational and the burden of keeping GMS asleep passed from the weavers to the citadel as a whole, is that when the conductors fight the Weavers and oust them from power.

[lapis sluice]

It really did sung

[gloomy path]

no reason to fight shade lord tho, dude was chillin til they sent a silk goddess down his crib

[lapis sluice]

You’d still need constant material care and work to produce and maintain which would be filled by the underwork laborers

Oh wait I misread nvm

[vapid pendant]

But think of the cool factor

[gloomy path]

hype and aura moment for my boy the knight fighting you in his old small form fr

[white panther]

Question. Do we know what the white butterflies actually are? seems like Lace can control some of them but they are also everywhere on lamps and even inside some enemies

[vapid pendant]

Why would our lil bro fight us

[gloomy path]

to steal the everbloom, so he can give it to elderbug once more 🫸 🌼

[sacred heath]

i assume theyre Lumaflies
but why did that one fly seemingly break the seal on Hornet’s cage? why does Lace seemingly have some connection with them?

[vapid pendant]

No clue but what I noticed is that every mechanical bug killed releases one of them

[lean temple]

Gleamflies I think they're called

[sacred heath]

is it some eggman shit where the flies are powering the robot

[vapid pendant]

Looks like it

[foggy fractal]

they look pretty different from luma flies

[lean temple]

Lumaflies have two wings these have four (unless I'm misremembering)

[cedar walrus]

Just got the ending with mushroom guy rocketing off

[lean temple]

Lace probably can do some minor mind control magic she learned from GMS

[cedar walrus]

“To be continued” MUSHROOM GAME CONFIRMED?! 🤣

[vapid pendant]

Im gonna destroy team cherry for that "to be continued"

[foggy fractal]

hk did the same thing

[craggy smelt]

classic MM

[cedar walrus]

Hahaha didn’t realize it was in HK

[white panther]

and i would assume Lace doesnt want to call for too much attention while make her scheme of leading Hornet out of the kingdom, so the butterfly is a "delicate" way to do it i guess

[vapid pendant]

I wonder what happend to that fox game that was once leaked or something

[plush spoke]

Is lace really a child or is hornet just too old

[lean temple]

Mister Mushroom in Fearless Fox confirmed

[craggy smelt]

lace is a creation, she's kind've perpetually stuck in a state of childishness

[white panther]

both i guess, Silk wanted a child and maybe Lace is like an eternal teenager of sorts

[gloomy path]

man, lace is all over the place, im not sure where to put her place in the story, a jealous child willing to put down her mother

[plush spoke]

Oh so hornet and lace is perfect for each other as friends

[cedar walrus]

Yeah I’m struggling with Lace lore

[vapid pendant]

Lace really seems like a fanmade OC

[plush spoke]

They both have long lifespans

[white panther]

Lace is going to eternally test Hornet's patience

[plush spoke]

How

[gloomy path]

how can she even co exist with the caste she just roaming around, even got to deep docks???

[white panther]

being a teenager

[lean temple]

While Lace is childish Caretaker does say she has been around for a long time

[vapid pendant]

Now the big question
After the true ending
Will hornet be more like a sister to lace or more like a mother with how old she is

[plush spoke]

I feel like sister

[white panther]

I feel bad for Phantom, poor baby left behind

[lean temple]

Older sister

[gloomy path]

hornet will either keep her around cause lace needs to renew the silk keeping her alive, or abandon her with pharloom rip... hornet doesn't need baggage where she's going

[naive crag]

she ragebaits hornet all the time

almost all of their interactions is lace ragebaiting her

[craggy smelt]

lace's pin shows up next to hornet's needle in the title screen, so i get the impression they're going to stick together (ugh)

[plush spoke]

Wait so lace is created using silk?

[cedar walrus]

Hornet for Smash

[vapid pendant]

Yes

[gloomy path]

pure silk being

[white panther]

i honesty dont know how the HK community is on this sense but there could be a chance of people shipping both i guess

[plush spoke]

Silk has life??

[gloomy path]

silk from gms

[naive crag]

gms is made of silk

[craggy smelt]

its full of Soul, the stuff of life

[plush spoke]

What is gms made of

[white panther]

ye, very especial silk directly from Silk

[vapid pendant]

Nah
Thats hornet and Shakra

[plush spoke]

What's so special about gms's silk

[naive crag]

ive already seen some lacenet

[craggy smelt]

GMS is the 'primal source of silk'

[timber pond]

Just watched the quest Thats steel soul exclusive, Wonder why these masters task bugs with seeking out dead kingdoms? ambye because void might be present to appear and they must stop it?

[naive crag]

shes the origin of silk

[gloomy path]

gms silk is special cause she's a god bruh

[plush spoke]

And how about the weavers

[foggy fractal]

make more greenprince/cogwork dancers stuff they're confirmed gay lovers LES GO !

[naive crag]

she made the weavers

[craggy smelt]

GMSilk created the weavers, all silk ultimately descends from her

[plush spoke]

So weavers are made of silk too??

[icy sinew]

What do you mean ||Clockwork Dancers|| are DOUBLE ||Doomed Yaoi||???

[lean temple]

Silk itself is magical and imbued with Soul. GMS is the Goddess and source of Silk

[white panther]

too easy of a target for artists, they need some challenge like Sherma/BellBeast

[gloomy path]

im kinda miffed about this, it say's they were twins, but also lovers, but i guess they're bugs so 🤷‍♂️

[foggy fractal]

where does it say they're twins ?

[white panther]

iirc they are childhood friends

[plush spoke]

Wait if gms created lace and the weavers then technically hornet and lace are blood related?

[white panther]

but i could be wrong

[vapid pendant]

Kinda...?

[craggy smelt]

they're not twins from the same parents, they were just born at the same time

[white panther]

silk related

[gloomy path]

born at the same time threw me off

[plush spoke]

[fathom zenith]

my impression is that lace was made, not born

[polar yacht]

Yes, the system of the citadel is effective at maintaining control.

But I just find it hard to reconcile that even the leadership at the citadel had NO IDEA that the were vast amounts of resources they were pouring into ensuring that the Citadel blasted song 24/7 were for containing GMS.

That never did a single person in power think to themselves "we are dedicating a genuinely absurd amount of resources to ensuring that the majority of the population is praying in song, perhaps this isn't so logical and we could still easily maintain control of the population while allocating our resources more efficiently"

[white panther]

cmon...its hard to make SS jokes

[fathom zenith]

there was that needolin in exhaust organ

[lean temple]

Weavers were evolved by GMSilk from Pharlids. Lace is life purely made entirely of Silk

[plush spoke]

What if lace is the silksong

[white panther]

to be fair one could argue that the game is more about her thn Hornet itself

[gloomy path]

bruh, we're in the endgame now moment

[cedar walrus]

Okay I have a piece of my understanding missing. Here is the oversimplified version of what I understand.

1. a group of bugs are chillin and have a kingdom called Pharloom

2. gms shows up randomly and makes weavers, and embeds silk into the local bugs, and is such a douche that the weavers she made rebel and try to kill her but fail.

3. many weavers die but some escape to Hallownest.

4. Hornet is born of the Pale King and the weaver dreamer whose name I forget

Questions:

Why does gms care to mind control everyone, and last that why the obsession with Hornet?

Why does Hornet give AF about Lace

Why weren’t the remaining Weavers chillin at the Distant Village in HK like what happened to them? I don’t see multiple infected weavers there

[polar yacht]

the silksong is the fr-gets shot and dies

[vapid pendant]

Ah yes a game about a character that appears 5 times

[plush spoke]

Kinda ig, but I won't complain cuz I love how lace is written

[sacred heath]

one could argue

[naive crag]

she cares to mind control someone because she wants to be loved and she wants every weaver back not just hornet

[plush spoke]

It's only the story actually not the entire game

[gloomy path]

hornet wasn't that special, the caste captured other weavers in part, aka weaver offspring

[vapid pendant]

I know
Im just a lace hater im sorry
She just isnt a good character

[naive crag]

hornet doesnt gaf about lace but gms holds onto lace in the void instead of just dying so we have to rescue lace to free pharloom

and the weavers from deepnest just left hallownest too

[cedar walrus]

I forgot about the multiple carriages / cages that were used to bring in other weavers

[obsidian quail]

she sympathizes with her given the Vessels

[vapid pendant]

She was special because no other weaver was also mixed with a wyrm

[white panther]

The last interaction with Silk is actually really beautiful imo, the whole "i need your help to save your daughter" with just a simple nod and "guarana" was pretty amazing

[obsidian quail]

Hornet is pretty special because she’s 1/2 Weaver and the other half is a Pale fucking Wyrm

[gloomy path]

not special in that gms specifically was obsessed with her

[obsidian quail]

she is an insane combo

[white panther]

Half Wyrm, Half Weaver, Trained by Vespa and friends with the Void. Such a chill character

[plush spoke]

I feel like gms's boss fight is not difficult enough and doesn't really show that she's the origin of silk, her attacks don't even use a lot of silk

[vapid pendant]

And Likes fluffy creatures
Never forget

[cedar walrus]

What does that have to do with Pharloom? Would gms come back otherwise or something

[naive crag]

shes still alive in the void and the silk threads she controls the bugs with are void infected

[tawdry flare]

other lesser weavers were hunted in the same way

[naive crag]

basically giving the void access to every bug she controls

[cedar walrus]

Oh yeah, true my b

[lean temple]

Silk itself was magical, not just Hornet's silk

[cedar walrus]

Derp.

[lean temple]

They sought out many others too

[white panther]

I'm actually curious if Hornet was named by Vespa

[timber pond]

They seal GMS with something similar to the Seal you make in game. The weavers continue to Rule over Pharloom and use the Citadel to keep GMS sealed for a time.
One of the whole reasons for this kingdoms Plight is laces nature, she Needs constant silk to live and so is traped within the kingdom as its sentinel, kind of like the role she fufiled for a time. She feels bad for her. Weavers probably left due to hallownests issues as they deemed it no logner safe

[tawdry flare]

did you read the stuff in the cradle? they list weavers brought from other kingdoms there

[vapid pendant]

Didnt herrah call her hornet in the red memory

[lean temple]

Nope. Lore tablets in the cradle confirm they sought other Weavers from other lands

[plush spoke]

Herrah is also an amazing mother, I feel bad for hornet needing to witness the knight kill herrah right beside her

[white panther]

i dont remember if during Red Memory they already calls her Hornet

[naive crag]

she calls her daughter iirc

[white panther]

if, if thats the case, its so weird

[vapid pendant]

I mean she was already "dead"

[timber pond]

They don't call her hornet at all i think, they just say child or spiders spawn

[lean temple]

That's I think the only time we saw Hornet actually vulnerable, after her mother dies.

[white panther]

let me check, i can probably find some red memory videos on youtube

[naive crag]

nvm just child

[timber pond]

Vespa probably gave her the name hornet to be fast and deadly after her teachsings ended

[plush spoke]

She's more like in an eternal coma

[naive crag]

not even vespa calls her hornet

theres the possibility she named herself too

[timber pond]

Probably because she only gives her that name at the end of her traing

[lean temple]

It can be assumed Vespa was the one to name her off screen

[sacred heath]

HOLY FUCK SHE’S SMALL

[cloud oasis]

Is she not dead after true ending?

[white panther]

Vespa is basically the translation of Hornet anyway

[vapid pendant]

Which she cannot ever wake up so its not really killing but just freeing from an eternal duty

[naive crag]

yes after you save lace

[fathom zenith]

ahve you guys found any npcs in the slab you can play music to?

[lean temple]

Canon baby Hornet

[gloomy path]

lol im thinking in several hundred years hornet will eventually look like herrah

[vapid pendant]

Shaw : D

[white panther]

Void GMS can be one hell of a dlc boss

[plush spoke]

Maybe she's already several hundred years old

[lean temple]

If she isn't already that old

[craggy smelt]

I'd be down, I had way more fun fighting her than Lace

[cloud oasis]

There is a lot of set up for dlc/expansion content later on

[vapid pendant]

Gms possesed by shade lord copium..
Shade grandmother silk

[gloomy path]

maybe a few more hundred, all the bugs grow eventually

[cedar walrus]

I just fought Lost Lace a second time and had a lot more fun

[white panther]

Radiant Void Sherma >>

[cedar walrus]

The fight grew on me

[lean temple]

Hornet does say she is an adult, so idk how much more she could grow if at all.

[gloomy path]

lost garmond with LOST ZAZA

[naive crag]

if sometrhing like a pantheon were to exist i hope the last boss isnt lost lace

[cloud oasis]

Team Cherry give me the Knight boss fight and my life is yours

[vapid pendant]

If Sherma ever ends up as a boss, i wont be able to attack

[naive crag]

she has no aura

[gloomy path]

past her prime adult, or old

[craggy smelt]

absolute lace

[lean temple]

Music battle! :D

[cedar walrus]

I don’t think that’d be it seul

[vapid pendant]

All fun and games untill the knight starts to descending dark spam you

[gloomy path]

maybe hornet's a midget

[neat sandal]

she could grow more legs. atleast in one ending

[outer stump]

Her journal entry sounds a bit invested for someone who doesn't care. That whole "This one... the dark shall not take" deal.

[vapid pendant]

Hold up, he's writing is fire?

[craggy smelt]

i hope we never fight the Knight, because I don't want them to ever lose to Hornet

[lean temple]

She's implied to be immortal or at least extremely long lived, so I don't think she's past her prime

[cedar walrus]

I missed that one

[cloud oasis]

A Godhome esk dlc where the final boss is the Knight that phases between basic knight, knight with full gear, to small void tendrils knight, then to full on shadelord would be cinema

[white panther]

ok, i jsut rewatched Red Memory and no one calls her Hornet, not even Vespa

[naive crag]

the knight should just fuck us up

[white panther]

I'm very curious now from where the name came from

[plush spoke]

But it's weird tho, if hornet really seeks strength that much, how is hornet still almost the same as when the dream no more ending took place? Does that mean that the time that passed between hk1 and silksong wasn't actually that long?

[naive crag]

isnt daughter of hallownest the same strength as silksong hornet?

[lean temple]

Shadelord shredded the Radiance in seconds

[cloud oasis]

I dont remember who but its inplied the events of HK take place not long before Silksong

[gloomy path]

i mean she can grow older that she'd go past her prime as a adult, i really don't think immortal and staying small for bugs tracks, but she is in part wrym

[cloud oasis]

I imagine once Radiance was dead Pharloom came knocking

[gloomy path]

sly exists i forgot oop

[lean temple]

Hornet does lose some of her past strength at the start of silksong, bud I'd argue endgame Silksong Hornet is stronger than HK Hornet

[vapid pendant]

I think the moment radiance died, pharloom sent the bugs to capture hornet because there was no infection so it was safe

[cloud oasis]

End Silksong Hornet would absolutely body the knight, your ass wouldnt be getting no mothwing cloak

[spark valve]

she is considerably weaker

[plush spoke]

Was hornet born to connect hallownest and deepnest or to let herrah sacrifice herself for the seal

[naive crag]

she holds back at the greenpath fight

[spark valve]

the latter

[cloud oasis]

I believe the trade of Herrah being a dreamer is that she gets to have the pale seed to birth hornet

[plush spoke]

So then that means hornet isn't actually that old

[lean temple]

Well she doesn't actually want to kill the Knight. She's holding back in both fights. She means to test them and it wouldn't make sense if she killed the only promising Vessel she had ever seen

[spark valve]

it means she is very old. Herrah got sealed a very long time ago

[blissful harbor]

hornet is old af, dreamers are old af

[cloud oasis]

We dont really know since theres no concrete timeline in HK

[naive crag]

theres a least some centuries from dreamers to the knight arriving

[lean temple]

She is many lifetimes old in SS and referred to as "Old One"

[spark valve]

she's only holding back in the first fight because she's caught off guard. In the second fight she is explicitly NOT holding back

[cloud oasis]

I feel like holding back defeats the purpose of testing to see if you can kill a god but i suppos

[plush spoke]

Oh

[random harbor]

Hornet - General - Kingdom's Edge

So you'd pursue the deeper truth? It isn't one the weak could bear.

Prove yourself ready to face it. I'll not hold back. My needle is lethal and I'd feel no sadness in a weakling's demise.
Show me you can accept this Kingdom's past and claim responsibility for its future.

@tammo6424 used /npcs wanderers name: Hornet category: General dialogue: Kingdom's Edge

[lean temple]

We don't know that. Bugs do die of old age but Nailsmith and Sly and Nailmasters and Ogrim are all still alive

[plush spoke]

The dude in Dirtmouth really is something, to not be infected after all these centuries

[naive crag]

she only holds back in greenpath iirc

[cloud oasis]

So yea if Kingsoms Edge Hornet was post Silksong hornet the Knight is getting fucking shredded

Woe unto thee 10 cogflies

[spark valve]

the knight beats hornet easily at full power it's not close

[blissful harbor]

elderbug is actually incredibly young , he was born after the stagways closed which was after the infection

[plush spoke]

Nah knight still wins

[gloomy path]

we really powerscaling now

[cloud oasis]

Not really Im just making the joke

[plush spoke]

The knight is much stronger than hornet right

[naive crag]

hope they nerf those so no one can be happy

[edgy nebula]

the baby judges neg diff them all

[white panther]

do we have an educated guess of how long it was between HK and SS?

[gloomy path]

i mean hornet takes 2 masks damage from nearly every source

[cloud oasis]

Maybe after he acquires the Voidheart

[plush spoke]

True

[vapid pendant]

If hornet has 5 hp at the start of silksong.. that means she also had 5 hp in hollow knight
Hornet 2 fight has 700 hp which means 1 mask = 140 hp
Pure nail deals 21 dmg which means it takes the knight at 7 hits to deal one mask of dmg to hornet
She is tanky as fuck

[cloud oasis]

Either way a Knight boss fight Godhomr style would be so mucb fun

[gloomy path]

its gonna be all about lace sadly

[edgy nebula]

does this mean savage beastfly is canonically the strongest character in fiction? more on this at 9

[naive crag]

what was the enemy that deals 3 masks i forgot

[plush spoke]

If so pharloom bugs are all built different🔥

[cloud oasis]

I do hope any Silksong DLC expands lore about the Void, giving us the snippets of the Ancient Civilization and that weavers also had some kind of connection to the void then not going anywhere with it is less fun

[edgy nebula]

i want expansion on the baby judges

[neat sandal]

with architect crest, mr.nocosttoomuch build, tacks, buzzsaw, cogfly.
Knight would instant die
but honestly, strongest hornet dps crest is wanderer is just worth half charm slot of knight.

[plush spoke]

I want godhome so I can fight Karmelita again

[spark valve]

those are pretty self explanatory

[vapid pendant]

Whatever hp savage beastly has, you multiply that by 7 and thats how much hp the knight would need to deal to kill it

[cloud oasis]

Is that the Ant boss

[plush spoke]

Yes

[cloud oasis]

I called her Shakira

[edgy nebula]

until i get their full lifecycle and how they get all of their gear and special masks im not fulfilled

[plush spoke]

Wtf

[white panther]

on a certain way i prefer a dlc with something new thn making the present story more confusing. Its fine the way it is

[cloud oasis]

No, please remove that spastic red bug from the game

[naive crag]

i want karmelitas theme without her voice

[plush spoke]

I want karmelitas theme with her voice

[spark valve]

there's a tablet explaining it

[lean temple]

Oh, what baby judges?

[gloomy path]

who was the giant red ant you get the heart from btw, i kinda skipped the dialogue

[spark valve]

karmelita

[naive crag]

i think he means blasted steps judges

[plush spoke]

Karmelita

[edgy nebula]

hidden room in the blasted steps

[vapid pendant]

Pasta without sauce ahh take

[gloomy path]

fr

[cloud oasis]

Influential Ant bug, possibly the queen? Though might have been more of the Ant version of a kpop idol

[naive crag]

i js wanna know what it sounds like

[spark valve]

Bug born of Pharloom. You have been chosen. May our Citadel's holy gilding harden your soft shell. Stand eternal as our arbiter, that no bug bearing sin shall step within our sacred halls.

[plush spoke]

Karmelita's fight is my fav boss fight in the entire game, lost lace is second

[naive crag]

i got curious because it exists

[lean temple]

The Ants were her children so yeah she is the queen

[vapid pendant]

What about fs

[plush spoke]

Who fs

[edgy nebula]

and then if you jump inside a hole and needolin they come out of the ground and sing the greatest music ever heard

[naive crag]

first sinner

[lean temple]

She was also previously called Hunter Queen Carmelita

[white panther]

Fish Sinner

[cloud oasis]

Her blocking 60% of my attacks with no indication is super unfun

[white panther]

FIRST

[plush spoke]

Oh I don't like first sinner I barely get any hits on her

[spark valve]

she's still stated to be the queen

[lean temple]

I'm not disagreeing with that??

[neat sandal]

If I replay the game. I would not kill Karmelita
sad to see Gilly ask Hornet "hope it worth for that cruel cost" over Karmelita death

[vapid pendant]

Does pharloom even have one king lmao

Og wait

[velvet zephyr]

the coral guy

[spark valve]

going for the old changed name is not the most persuasive

[vapid pendant]

Coral king

[naive crag]

sherma

[plush spoke]

My fav boss fights

1. Karmelita
2. Lost lace
3. Lace 2
4. Lace 1

[cloud oasis]

Does anyone know if theres more lore ingamr about the Forgotten Town or is it just fluff for the mushroom quest?

Would be a cool DLC entrance

[naive crag]

i liked lace 2 more than lost lace

lost lace telegraphs for no reason

[plush spoke]

What is that hat sherma wears during act 3

[lean temple]

The Green Princes were also rulers

[naive crag]

from the snail shaman

[spark valve]

the caretaker's headdress

[gloomy path]

only the lore that drops from the building about the town people getting lured towards gms

[lean temple]

Caretaker hat

[plush spoke]

What does it do

[velvet zephyr]

swag

[spark valve]

marks them as being in charge

[cloud oasis]

Beh, boring

[plush spoke]

Oh poor sherma😔

[obsidian quail]

the Void at the end of Sister of the Void really breaks my heart

[cloud oasis]

I was rather annoyed after soing that climb and getting basically nothing

[obsidian quail]

dammit that was so stupid

[gloomy path]

well, it is nameless town

[obsidian quail]

the Void was perfect in Hollow Knight they shouldn’t have touched it

[gloomy path]

we got to see the surface so it was aight

[vapid pendant]

Do we finally know whats in that secret room in high halls or is it unused like the secret room in bellhart

[lean temple]

I don't understand why they needed that whole parkour section for Mister Mushroom's quest

[cloud oasis]

True but I feel like theres a lot more deadends in Silksong than there in HK

Gameplay and lore wise

[gloomy path]

they could always alter it so you can go further out and get another dlc area in place

[obsidian quail]

because platforming is cool as fuck

[plush spoke]

How did hornet know herald

[obsidian quail]

saw him in hallownest

[gloomy path]

she just does

[lean temple]

It seems he is very important. PK and WL likely also knew him

[plush spoke]

But how did she understand what he's saying

[cloud oasis]

Its implied Mr Mister gets around and is probably a higher being or something similar

[lean temple]

She knows many languages

[cloud oasis]

From boe Hornet refers to him with reverence

[plush spoke]

Who is pk and wl

[lean temple]

Pale King and the White Lady

[spark valve]

apparently spore shroom is no longer necessary to do the telepathic link

[gloomy path]

bro are you learning the lore from the top instead of starting the bottom sam

[cloud oasis]

Silksong DLC takes place in the sky and it's just bugs fighting to not get eaten by birdss

[naive crag]

poshanka

[vapid pendant]

Hornet is 1/3 mushroom new theory

[lean temple]

It is unnecessarily long for the Mister Mushroom quest especially after having already done that awful Abyss climb

[obsidian quail]

omg they just keep going back on base game stuff

[spark valve]

it's not that long and it's basically an easter egg

[obsidian quail]

make it stop

[naive crag]

the mushrooms are half hornet

[lean temple]

Or she just learned the language itself

[obsidian quail]

it didn’t have to be this way

[gloomy path]

then it's revealed bugs are actual bug sized and the birds are giants overshadowing entire game map

[plush spoke]

Let's just say the lore I know is like a road with multiple holes or pits

[obsidian quail]

seriously

[edgy nebula]

i just learned that the baby judges have names, squirrm, truly peak

[obsidian quail]

i can’t do anymore mental gymnastics

[spark valve]

in hk the shrumal tablet writing doesn't even appear unless you're linked to the hive mind

[naive crag]

bro WHAT is a bab yjudge

[cloud oasis]

Surface or Void DLC would be good for Silksong, though seeing how long the game took we probably wont know for atleast a couple years

[edgy nebula]

let me get a photo

[naive crag]

they did it quite fast for all there is in the game

[plush spoke]

Imagine grimm coming to pharloom

[naive crag]

where do you find that omg

[edgy nebula]

the BEST silksong creature

[spark valve]

they grow up, get fitted with metal from the citadel, and set out as judges

[plush spoke]

What is this thing

[naive crag]

its so ugly i need to know where it is

[ionic helm]

i dont really understand where pilgrims come from if the surface is above the citadel. why do they begin at the bottom?

[spark valve]

some random room in steps where you can play the needolin to make it emerge

[vapid pendant]

What did they say in that blogpost? See ya'll in 2032 or something

[cloud oasis]

Oh definitely, you can tell just how much love and care was put into silksong

[lean temple]

Act 3 dlc

[edgy nebula]

in the bottom of this room, if you play the needolin they emerge and sing their mighty song

[plush spoke]

Are you being fr

[naive crag]

i wonder sometimes how od you even find out

[edgy nebula]

i found it when trying to find sands of karak and ive been obsessed ever since

i didnt even know they had names until like 5 minutes ago

[lean temple]

I'm hoping lol

[gloomy path]

they literally go caravan by caravan braving the hazardous wastelands to get here, only to find the hellhole that is pharloom capitalism

[plush spoke]

I hope they add something like dream gate to the game because runbacks are annoying as hell

[cloud oasis]

Id like to point out how insane it is that TC lets you "beat" the game in Act 2 and rolls the credits without any indication that even with Snared Silk theres an Act 3.

Theres gotta be atleast one poor sod out there who snared GMS and called it a day thinking that was it

[naive crag]

you already have bell beast babies

that make walking not so bad

[spark valve]

you're just expected to be playing the needolin a bunch

[naive crag]

dream gate is being greedy there isnt any really long runback

[edgy nebula]

we get baby hornet, baby bell beast, both of these are very explanatory, very big important characters

then we get, baby judge

[naive crag]

bilehaven is the only one i can think of thats sort of nanoying

[plush spoke]

That was me when I first played hollow knight, didn't even know what was the radiance

[vapid pendant]

You want to tell me you dont needolin every single npc and dead bug?

[cloud oasis]

Its implied somewhere that Pharloom, and Hallownest to some extent, take place underground in large mounds/hills

[edgy nebula]

you can needolin dead bugs?

[spark valve]

some of them

[vapid pendant]

Some yes

[naive crag]

some of them yeah

[edgy nebula]

huh

[gloomy path]

yeah civilization thrives in these mounds cause the hostile winds doesn't destroy whatever the bugs built inside

[spark valve]

they really did just copy the dream nail (with a touch more interactive elements)

[obsidian quail]

no more Void

[naive crag]

where does the name needolin come from

[edgy nebula]

also does needolin force the person its played to to sing? or do they just do that

[naive crag]

needle + what

[cloud oasis]

Took me 4 hours into Act 3 go realize the bell beast song let me fast travel from anywhere

[spare pendant]

violin

[gloomy path]

violin

[plush spoke]

Most useful thing ever

[spark valve]

they probably just do that I don't think hornet would mind control them like that or whatever

[plush spoke]

Trumpet

[naive crag]

amazing

[plush spoke]

Ikr

[ionic helm]

yeah but i mean you can go to the surface in silksong and theres bugs there. even a village!

[naive crag]

i abused that so much and was mad about it not working in the void

is this how nepobabies feel i cant walk anymore

[plush spoke]

I thought those bugs don't have intelligence

[spark valve]

they have a village

[runic musk]

I got true ending and still didnt know what it did because apparently I can't read

[cloud oasis]

It is curious how little the game tells us about Weavers despite Pharloom supposedly being where theh originate from. Also wanna know why theres a weavernest in the abyss

[plush spoke]

Is that village theirs

[ionic helm]

whos else would it be

[plush spoke]

Someone who lived there before ig

[spark valve]

we know where weavers come from

they're pharlids ascended by grand mother silk's powers

[naive crag]

we know enough about weavers

[cloud oasis]

Honestly the Nameless village feels like a subtle hint that the surface wasnt always the wasteland it is now. Its clearly in ruins but we dont really know if thats because of Pharloom or if that happened before

[gloomy path]

weaver absalom was just built different

[edgy nebula]

is the last judge fully automaton?

[gloomy path]

no they grow

[edgy nebula]

then why is she so different from the other judges

[spark valve]

age

[edgy nebula]

fair enough

[cloud oasis]

I mean, thats subjective

[spark valve]

The huge Judge likely stood through countless generations, never defeated, never wavering in their charge.

[lean temple]

Age or maybe special training

[ionic helm]

the last judge is just a judge that never lost

[naive crag]

think about it theres barely anything we know everything about

moth tribe? snail shamans? pale beings?

[edgy nebula]

i see

why do other judges get killed off then?

[gloomy path]

because they didn't grow old enough 😂

[spark valve]

they spend their lives attacking pilgrims they see as sinners I assume some of them fight back

[ionic helm]

most automaton enemies give off cogs when hit, but judges dont

[spark valve]

plus steps are a dangerous location in general

[edgy nebula]

yeah but the last judge fucking explodes

[spark valve]

the censer does