sk-lore

[teal shell]

thats why the shamans needed so much power essentially, shes pulling a physical item from her brain essentially

[runic musk]

In Red Memory? I dont believe Voids mentioned at all

[austere coral]

it could probably be either, if it's embrace the void the knight probably lost the shade lord form since leaving godhome because of the lack of godseeker attunement, and shade lord flashes to show their true power/potential. If it's dream no more it could be exactly the same, (knights potential is unchanged), and yk they are still a lord of the shades of sorts in that one

[obsidian quail]

yes

[runic musk]

Oh wait it is by WL I'm dumb

[obsidian quail]

it is

[acoustic holly]

it just doesnt make sense to me cause hallownest seems to be okay now

[obsidian quail]

what do u mean okay

[runic musk]

Hallownests basically still kinda dead

[obsidian quail]

everyone is dead

radiance got her get back

[craggy smelt]

the infection will be gone at least though

the region will be safe to rebuild in - mantis tribe lookin' good

[obsidian quail]

the 10 bugs still alive will be grateful

mantis is on the come up

DROSA

[empty sierra]

hows that implied?

[placid garden]

Elderbug would be grateful. He got a flower.

[acoustic holly]

i mean she talks about going home so i figure she atleast still lives there

[craggy smelt]

explorers and treasure hunters will be surviving trips to Hallownest more, word will spread about it being safer
there'll be a future for the region, it'll just belong to somebody else

[teal shell]

well i think that etv makes more sense because of the distinct lack of the hollow knights shade and the knight escapes godhome, i think that the knight retains their shadelord power but can shift their form around, finding hornet they shifted back to the “normal” appearance so hornet coukd more easily recognise them since they clearly do care for her. the weird twitching could just be the “mask” slipping out as the knights trying to conceal their true nature

i will take like story analysis for ss with the idea of etv being canon just because personally i like it more from a narrative standpoint but i do see the vision for dnm

[acoustic holly]

i mean i think the shadelord form is like all of the shades combined not just the knight

[austere coral]

definitely, but no infection so free to rebuild, even if the same peak as during pale kings reign will never come. Personally I think it's gonna partly rebuild into a collection of loosely connected societies but still remain a shadow of former glory, especially without a ruler close to the pale king

[plain moon]

silksong has the word silk that makes you heal yourself

[teal shell]

also the other shades dissipate after dnm from my knowledge

[empty sierra]

also why cant the knight have become shade lord after the dream no more ending?

[woven fulcrum]

all the shades go back to the void which is where we see them

[acoustic holly]

is shade lord void given focus or is that the cut one

[teal shell]

they can i just think its kinda bummy to do smth like that off screen ngl

[obsidian quail]

it didn’t attune with godseekers

[empty sierra]

hmm was that a prerequisite?

[foggy fractal]

shade lord is void given focus

[obsidian quail]

it’s what made the shade lord

[acoustic holly]

yeah then that makes sense

[empty sierra]

hmm alright

[teal shell]

they are in the abyss, they curl up and disappear, presumably meaning they dont exist

[foggy fractal]

and the form we see in dream no more is void given form

[acoustic holly]

shadelord is the other shades coming commanded by the knight it feels

[teal shell]

also again the hollow knights shade isnt there despite holding radiance open for the knight makes little sense

[woven fulcrum]

no they go back into the ground they dont just disappear, and whats under the abyss is the void

[faint kite]

Is silksong actually set after hollow knight?

[acoustic holly]

right the hollow knight is probably still alive

[obsidian quail]

yes

[teal shell]

well yeah obviously lol

[acoustic holly]

no go play the game hornet is void

[empty sierra]

also i JUST noticed a giant clue, the godhome letimoff plays exactly when the knight is revealed

[teal shell]

free from the infection atleast, its possible that hornet killed them lmao

[acoustic holly]

i doubt it if hornet killed them then i think we'd see their shade

[fast bear]

yes

[teal shell]

but my hc is hornet beat them, spared them and essentially left the hk to try pick up the pieces and start their own life

[fast bear]

probably because he unified the void its like a singular entity

[austere coral]

most likely, you can even hear the ringing of the godseeker attunement at the end of the absolute radiance fight before the knight turns into shade lord. the transformation is most likely similar to all other bosses there like pure vessel/radiance/mantis lords etc, or just the attuned form of any boss, which is to say it lifts them to a peak of sorts of their power, or even higher

[teal shell]

and again i think this all makes sense from a story standpoint

[austere coral]

so the knight could turn into shade lord

[acoustic holly]

well the only reason the hollow knight got into an engagement with hornet is probably because it was really confused

[empty sierra]

listen to this

[teal shell]

embrace the void propaganda is spreading

[empty sierra]

such a cool callback

[teal shell]

goooooood gooooood

[acoustic holly]

how could it not be he literally turns into the shade lord

[empty sierra]

i kinda liked dream no more better 😭

[teal shell]

spread your will my children, make them know the truth

[spark valve]

it doesn't

[whole hawk]

Team "every ending is canon btw" Cherry

[obsidian quail]

look at my goat come back to aura farm

stylin on em

[empty sierra]

but im convinced embrace the void is more implied

[teal shell]

tammos back with the all in le head argument NOOOOO

[spark valve]

the ss ending is ambiguos between dnm and etv, it acknowledges both and doesn't exclusively canonize either

[empty sierra]

yeah its not 100% confirmed either

[teal shell]

lack of hk, shadelord appearance, possible godhome motif, makes more narrative sense

[woven fulcrum]

its supposed to be what hornet sees and shes able to see both potentials, its supposed to be unknown whether the one happened or not

[teal shell]

etv truth is the only truth in this household🙄

[empty sierra]

BUT hornet wouldnt know what shadelord looks like in dnm

[spark valve]

she also wouldn't know what it looks like in etv, or to see all the siblings there in etv, etc

[teal shell]

also i kinda just hate the whole “its ambiguous” or “its all canon” its so dumb now😭😭 it made sense when the game wasnt out yet

[empty sierra]

doesnt she meet shadelord at the end of etv?

[obsidian quail]

why do people say stuff like this as if it’s fact

[foggy fractal]

no

[obsidian quail]

where are u even getting that from

[spark valve]

she doesn't, this happens across the kingdom she never sees it

[teal shell]

hornet seeing the shadelord must mean the shadelord is physically there or shes seen it before, she cannot have seen it before

[spark valve]

it's not physically there

[empty sierra]

what was this then

[austere coral]

yep, seems very much intentional to leave both as a possibility, having either be decanonized would feel weird

[spark valve]

that is the hollow knight

[teal shell]

either its a jingle keys to the fans or its implying that its etv

[obsidian quail]

that’s THK

[woven fulcrum]

thats the hollow knight man

[empty sierra]

wahtt

[teal shell]

its all in le head sorry

[spark valve]

it's a nod to both endings while not exlusively canonizing either

[woven fulcrum]

exactly

[teal shell]

so why isnt the hollow knight in the void

[empty sierra]

damn i REALLY misunderstood etv ending

[empty sierra]

i guess he wasnt freed?

[obsidian quail]

it’s just shouting out and merging both endings a little so as not to make a true ending in HK

[foggy fractal]

maybe they were just chilling elsewhere idk

[empty sierra]

they kinda just beat radiance through godhome

[spark valve]

it doesn't matter that you don't see thk

[teal shell]

it kinda does

[spark valve]

thk doesn't have to be there for one of the flashes to be a clear nod to dnm

[raven cove]

It is obviously meant to be ambiguous

[teal shell]

thk was pivotal to dnm, they held the radiance open for the knight

[vivid kernel]

why ||grand mother silk||

[foggy fractal]

the knight appearing as void given form as well as siblings is enough for that

[teal shell]

i think it all just points to etv so so so so much harder

[raven cove]

It can be both it doesn’t really matter

[spark valve]

godseeker is pivotal for etv she's not there either where is she

[teal shell]

and i feel like its weird to not commit to either imo

[teal shell]

what?

[spark valve]

you thinking it's weird doesn't change that the cutscene doesn't commit to either

[empty sierra]

on another note lace being the true final boss was a bit disappointing ngl

[teal shell]

the hollow knight shows up as a shade during dnm? its weird that they arent there in the void?

holy deflection tbh

[raven cove]

Not only was it Lace it was Void Lace right outta fanon wiki

But at least the fight itself was fun

[woven fulcrum]

i agree, but i kind of thought its because I just didnt like the fight

[teal shell]

im willing to say its either but just dismissing the shadelord as “hallucination” is an extremely weak argument

[spark valve]

it's what the cutscene itself indicates

[teal shell]

how

[spark valve]

watch it

[teal shell]

i have i did the ending

[placid garden]

Wait how did the Hollow Knight escape actually?

[empty sierra]

completely new boss would've been awesome, or grandmother silk trying to protect her in some ultimate shade form

[spark valve]

it flashes in and out of existence it's not actually there

this is like basic visual storytelling

[woven fulcrum]

ok but arent you dismissing the flash with all the siblings?

[empty sierra]

idk if its the hollow knight then maybe its implied that hornet went to unbind/fight him?

[teal shell]

infection dying out probably released the chains

no reason to keep homie locked up if theres no reason

[empty sierra]

yea but then why would he attack hornet

[spark valve]

it probably doesn't

[placid garden]

It kind of has to be the Hollow Knight. That is their nail after all

[empty sierra]

yea maybe they just chilled

and it was just her guarding up in case

[spark valve]

she doesn't know what the hell is going on it's reasonable to be wary

[empty sierra]

for all this time i thought it was shadelord and it went evil trying to take over hallownest, leaving hornet its only guardian

i thought etv was a bad ending

[placid garden]

Actually as the Hollow Knight approaches you can hear what sound like chains

[empty sierra]

but on second look it DOES look more like hollow knight

[spark valve]

only from a writing perspective

[raven cove]

I don’t blame you because the ending is presented in an incredibly strange manner

[empty sierra]

i just didnt pay attention to that ending

[raven cove]

I suspect a lot of people would have thought that seeing it for the first time

[empty sierra]

yea lot of things are unclear and dramatic for no reason

maybe they had crazy plans with the story

[raven cove]

Well…

[foggy fractal]

like Shade Lord would probably just fuck off into the abyss and chill

[empty sierra]

or maybe it sets up a hallownest dlc for silksong?

for what happeed inbetween?

[spark valve]

if anything ss confirms this for it to even be a viable possibility to lead to silksong

[raven cove]

What happens in flower ending

[spark valve]

flower ending doesn't exist go away

[teal shell]

icky ending we dont talk of that

[placid garden]

gasp but flower so nice

[raven cove]

The flowers are very stupid

[teal shell]

same shadelord swipes, looks like its just revealing the other vessels being there too, appearance of the shadelord would be weird if its dnm, it makes sense for the knight/shadelord to dip back down into the abyss after escaping godhome

flower is nice we love the flower

[raven cove]

Why does WL have a DF in SS

[teal shell]

we do not love the flower ending

[placid garden]

I will not allow this

[austere coral]

god I’d love to explore even a small portion of hallownest as hornet

or Pharloom as the knight

[spark valve]

it's not the same swipes, appearance of the shade lord makes sense since it's meant to be ambiguous, knight is going to abyss in dnm and etv

[empty sierra]

WELL it could be possible with mods to port in hallownest

[teal shell]

if they wanted it to be ambiguous they probably wouldnt have shown the shadelord

[spark valve]

yes they would have

[austere coral]

that’d be so cool

[placid garden]

didn't they just....die?

[teal shell]

showing the shadelord tilts the scales so much more towards etv than otherwise

[spark valve]

no

[woven fulcrum]

they also showed the siblings

[spark valve]

it doesn't

[woven fulcrum]

they showed two endings

[spark valve]

etv gets equal acknowledgement as dnm you're actively fighting what they're so clearly trying to show

[raven cove]

VGForm and Siblings indicates DNM VGFocus indicates EtV it’s like deliberately ambiguous

[teal shell]

me personally if i was john team cherry writing an ambiguous ending involving the knight i would not have shown the shadelord in any capacity

[spark valve]

you aren't though

[raven cove]

Then it wouldn’t be ambiguous

[teal shell]

how

[raven cove]

VGFocus is like the only thing specific to EtV it would make any sense to show

[woven fulcrum]

if they didnt then dnm wouldve been the clear option to pick as the knight wasnt shown he could turn back in etv

[raven cove]

If there was mo VGFocus it would just be DNM the circumstances are otherwise almost identical

[spark valve]

showing flashes for both ending is ACTIVELY communicating ambiguity, there's a difference between active indication of ambiguity and just not doing anything

[teal shell]

okay this might just be my weird autistic way of viewing it whats the point in making it ambiguous

its kinda stupid to me, commit to one rather than commit to none

[spark valve]

it doesn't really matter

[empty sierra]

why its pretty cool

to have both endings be real

they are pretty close to each other

[raven cove]

It’s stupid but it’s what TC wanted to do they do a lot of stupid shit it’s their game

[spark valve]

and yeah it just lets people pick whichever ending they prefer there's no reason not to do that

[empty sierra]

and could lead to same or similar events

[teal shell]

this some dark souls all endings are canon stuff its kinda just weird and makes little sense to lil ol me

[woven fulcrum]

its a video game, as the player you make choices, they wanted to make that whatever choice you make it was the correct one

[empty sierra]

i can imagine both dnm and etv working with this

[spark valve]

no it's an either/or

[woven fulcrum]

except if you sealed yourself apparently that ending sucks according to tc

[teal shell]

and unless im forgetting something last i checked hk didnt have weird timeline stuff

[raven cove]

it did

[spark valve]

this isn't weird timeline stuff

[empty sierra]

yea most people dont consider normal endings canon

[spark valve]

it's just a bit of ambiguity

[acoustic shard]

is this just a scam?

[wary plover]

Is pharlooms folly about Silk, or about the void

[teal shell]

multiple canon endings is weird timeline stuff

[raven cove]

all hk endings were considered canon if that’s what you mean by weird timeline stuff

[obsidian quail]

because it’s always been their intention to not have a true ending

[empty sierra]

if you want to seal yourself in hk then you can just do normal ending in ss

[austere coral]

exactly, no reason to decanonize one of them when both work perfectly fine, leave it up to the players interpretation

[empty sierra]

both get the basic ending

[woven fulcrum]

you know thats fair

[teal shell]

tbf act 3 is a mf to get and locks you out act 2 endings its kinda annoying

[raven cove]

Correct

From a game design perspective it is baffling

[teal shell]

i love this game i aint starting a new save file for those endings man😭

[empty sierra]

doesnt a similar thing happen with the void charm in hk?

[spark valve]

you misspelled bad

[empty sierra]

locks you out of the basic endings

[raven cove]

That was implied

[teal shell]

kinda i think u get sealed sibling instead of normal iirc

[spark valve]

not to nearly the same degree and thk is basically just a variation of sealed siblings

[austere coral]

it does, locks you out of normal ending

gets replaced by sealed siblings

[empty sierra]

oh yeah sealed sibling exists 😭

[teal shell]

locking you out of normal ending vs locking you out of 2? endings with no warning lol

[raven cove]

Getting the true ending in HK is also a lot easier than whatever the fuck the act 3 requirements are

[empty sierra]

thats prob just forgotten and non canon bad ending since you cant have silksong after that

[raven cove]

SS in general has some very poorly signposted objectives

[teal shell]

mi think itd be nice if after doing the act 3 ending you got prompted to go back to act 2

[empty sierra]

yea nah i gave up on act 3 its just too much, lategame is horrible

im not even a casual player i got a lot of hours in hk too

[teal shell]

i loved act 3 it was really fun but jesus i am really not wanting to reply a good chunk of the game to get 2 endings lol

[whole hawk]

to be fair if you can get to act 3 and get the ending there, you can easily just bumrush a new playthrough to beat act 2 for the normal endings

[woven fulcrum]

eh I dont think its that long of a game if youre just trying to get the normal endings, especially if you know where to go

[empty sierra]

but its too hard and requires too much time/dedication

[spark valve]

kind of takes some of the fun out of finding optional content when you're forced to grind it for completion % to get to act 3

[empty sierra]

yea lategame i meant act 3, 1 and 2 are really fun

[raven cove]

It’d be fine if the game told you what you were doing

[teal shell]

its weird to lock you out part of tbe game with exclusive stuff

[foggy fractal]

it would've been more nice if the structure was entirely different imo
I would've much rather had just more content in act 2 that can access every ending then act 3 which gates stuff

[teal shell]

even just making it so using the needolin in gms original arena just restarts the fight like normal

[woven fulcrum]

yeah I can see they complaints but my experience I did the first ending, went and did some collecting to find the hidden ending and just stumblued on it and it blew my mind at the time

[raven cove]

GMS at the HB meetup be like

[terse warren]

Actually that is a pretty good solution ngl

[teal shell]

i reached the act 2 ending, remember seeing a weird spoiler about act 3 so i didnt bither w gms straight away to go pivot to figuring that out, if i knew it locked me out of 2 achievements i wouldnt have done it lmao

[terse warren]

Thought you'd still be locked out of Twisted Child

But Hornet locked you out of one ending in the first game too so

[terse warren]

Wdym 2

[empty sierra]

wtf is twisted child

[raven cove]

Twisted child

[teal shell]

i assume theres 2 achievements for act 2 endings

[raven cove]

Yes

[obsidian quail]

well for SS u just have to do all the wishes? i thought it was easier than HK

[teal shell]

cus theres 2 endings right

[spark valve]

twisted child is funny how easy it is to lock you out of but it works more like an easter egg so wtv

[terse warren]

Did you just immediately get to Act 3 without ever being GMS before?

[woven fulcrum]

and if youre looking for achievements you got to do speedrunning achievements anyways

[raven cove]

That isn’t the requirement but even if it was I’m not sure how you could consider that easier than the HK TE unlock reqs

[obsidian quail]

u do all the wishes and collect a lot of lost fleas

[placid garden]

Ending lock outs? That's so bad...

[teal shell]

no i beat lace, died to gms and i remembered that there was an act 3 so decided to try do as much of act 2 content as i can to figure out hiw to access act 3

[obsidian quail]

it’s just easier than random shit

[spark valve]

hk unlock reqs are also arguably more opaque than they should be but ss makes them look straightforward by comparison

[terse warren]

Iirc it's some shit like 17 "quest points" and 20? I think fleas for fleatopia

Either 20 or 25

[woven fulcrum]

I definitly didnt have all the wishes and I didnt have all the fleas when I got the ending

[teal shell]

i had already done most wishes and had the majority of the fleas so i didnt need to do much either

[austere coral]

btw how tf do you get the song of the architect? I have all movement and probably lots of completion overall, but never got around to last song nor can I find out how

[spark valve]

people have done it without doing quests and without advancing fleas

[teal shell]

you need them to move to putrified ducts to get it and thats around 20-25 iirc

[raven cove]

Yes HK reqs are also not good but SS blows that shit out of the water

[terse warren]

Door in clockwork core

[teal shell]

i think theres 40? fleas

[austere coral]

oh

[teal shell]

theres an achievement for it 2 secs

[woven fulcrum]

I didnt move them there to get the ending, I moved them in act 3

[austere coral]

like lower part?

[terse warren]

Requirements are literally quest points though

Which you can gain by like, doing a lot of deliveries

[teal shell]

oh odd then idk lmao

[hexed axle]

30

[storm wolf]

I forget is there any hints as to where to take the kingsoul

[austere coral]

or how do you get to upper part

[spark valve]

fleas don't need to be advanced to ducts and all quests don't need to be finished, pretty much every proposed hard requirement has been falsified other than what maybe beating lace 2

[spark valve]

has this actually been tested and shit

[terse warren]

Right below the dancers arena, go to the right, enter that door

[runic musk]

Yea but can always rollback if you have to... At the cost of everything you did after it.

[teal shell]

i had alr beat lace 2 before trying to figure out act 3

[terse warren]

I heard Speedrun people talking about it

[whole hawk]

Wait you dont need fleatopia for Act 3?

[runic musk]

Apparently not

Someone claims to got true end at 65% too

[whole hawk]

Is it just quest completion then and restoring the towns theb?

[empty sierra]

whats the actual requirements then?

[teal shell]

i had most wishes done so that wasnt bad and most of the fleas were found because i love looking for them rascals

[spark valve]

I'm not inclined to just assume they aren't also working off faulty assumptions

[spark valve]

nobody knows

[obsidian quail]

that’s what i did

[foggy fractal]

no way bruh 😭 Hornet door dash is REAL !!!!

[spark valve]

I did every quest and didn't get the act 3 quest until I then went and advanced fleas to ducts

[terse warren]

I mean I don't see how they would "assume" quest points and assume that deliveries give you half of one

[teal shell]

just do wishes and find fleas and eventually you get the wish after the dialogue with the first shrine npc i guess

[obsidian quail]

because of souls games i always assume u have to do side quests before the npcs freaking die

[empty sierra]

i was told fleas and all town quests and thats what i did before i actually got the act 3 quest

[runic musk]

For me I was just missing Shakras quest

[empty sierra]

i didnt get it before

[storm wolf]

It’s starting to sound like the game just wants you to do a certain number of quests rather than specific ones

[spark valve]

that's what I did too, but other people also did and then didn't get the quest

[empty sierra]

fleas require you unlocking all act 2 areas, so maybe thats the flag

[obsidian quail]

they probably didn’t do npc wishes

[teal shell]

i have no clue i just wish i could atleast get the basic normal ending now

[runic musk]

Yea my trigger was doing Shakras Quest after I already moved the fleas so quests are definitely related I think

[spark valve]

I did every quest available and didn't get the silk and soul quest

[empty sierra]

someone could look in the code, filter it to the silk and soul quest

[obsidian quail]

it’s the town wishes, most of the npcs out in the wild wishes, collect fleas, and go up until beating Lace

[teal shell]

dude i have the mr mushroom ending im really not restarting this game for a couple months AT LEAST lmao😭

[woven fulcrum]

I was in the process of doing all the quests but was still doing them when he gave me the quest

[storm wolf]

What did you do right before it triggered

[spark valve]

advanced the caravan, but that's also not a hard requirement

[teal shell]

i done shakra last before the act 3 wish but i hadnt checked first shrine in a while beforehand

[obsidian quail]

i cleared out every town wish, did the npc wishes, collected fleas till they went to pale lake, and then progressed main story to beating Lace in the flower field

[empty sierra]

whats gonna happen to the caravan if you dont advance it but enter act 3? do they get corrupted too?

[obsidian quail]

also gotta make sure to deliver the important goods for the courier bugs

[spark valve]

if the metric is 17 quest points or something, I did well over 17 so unless quests don't all grant points it's not that

[foggy fractal]

we should ping Simo and ask

TRUST.

[empty sierra]

whos simo

[teal shell]

most of my achievements left are default endings, steel soul, speedrunner and the upgrades so im probably leaving this for a bit lmfao

[austere coral]

thankiessss

[whole hawk]

the caravan is in last judge's arena and that barely gets touched in act 3

[foggy fractal]

one of the playtesters of Silksong who is also conveniently in this server

[storm wolf]

Me too, the thing I did before it triggered was doing the shakra master corpse quest

[foggy fractal]

and an admin

[runic musk]

Do speed run at least though its fairly forgiving just dont waste too much time against bosses/gauntlets and you're fine.

Traversal's the easy part.

[spark valve]

I had done that a while before and the bellhart quest didn't spawn

[zinc dove]

Where did the weavers leave to? Back to Hallownest now that the infection is over?

[teal shell]

speedruns prob not too bad but i just spent nearly 50 hours on a savefile im not ready to replay for a little bit longer LMAO

[storm wolf]

I think they just went all over

[craggy smelt]

they left Pharloom for all sorts of places
they seem to all be gone now, maybe there's a few survivors out there

[spark valve]

they fled to a bunch of places to escape gms, hallownest was only one of them

[void smelt]

Why this guy got mad that we rang the bell?

[foggy fractal]

just a hater trust

[spark valve]

because it means pilgrims will come and he wants to be left alone

[craggy smelt]

brings a bunch of pilgrims

[teal shell]

because he has social anxiety

[craggy smelt]

hates refugees, very cruel

[void smelt]

But good Pilgrims or Haunted Pilgrims

[teal shell]

we do NOT stan

[craggy smelt]

good ones
the shrine seems to keep the haunted ones away, in fact

[teal shell]

he just wants to be left alone lmao

[obsidian quail]

the Weavers didn’t leave back to Hallownest, they were there before the infection

[void smelt]

Thanks!

[zinc dove]

They left after the first signs of the infection according to the wiki

[obsidian quail]

there really aren’t many Weavers around, who knows where they are

[teal shell]

he pretty simply just doesnt want people invading his space so hes pretty weird

little autistic bug ❤️

[obsidian quail]

oh ur asking if the Weavers went back to Hallownest after the radiance is gone? when u said leave back to hallownest it confused me

i thought u were talking about pharloom

[storm wolf]

I don’t think anyone’s going back to hallownest lmao

[obsidian quail]

the Weavers who left Deepnest just went to a different place who knows

[craggy smelt]

weaversong mentions they returned to their old home, implying they went back to pharloom

maybe they figured it was time to stop running?

[obsidian quail]

okay so following that, is it

Weavers in deepnest-> Weavers leave -> go back to pharloom -> get fucked and build those ritual areas for the destined child

when did the Weavers build those

[spark valve]

I doubt they built those those seem like they were older and built by weavers who never fled

if anything they might've just come back to pharloom and immediately been killed by the citadel

[storm wolf]

Yea it looks like the kingdom was built around those structures

[whole hawk]

How does the timeline in the game pan out though. When does the infection start and when do the Weavers betray Silk?

And by infection I mean the one in Hallownest.

[craggy smelt]

the ritual areas and weavenests seem like pre-flight stuff

[spark valve]

Infection would’ve started after weavers arrived in Hallownest

[stuck lichen]

whats up with the nameless town above pharloom, i didnt see any lore tablets or anything interesting

[foggy fractal]

just a nameless town trust

[craggy smelt]

just some failed town, established by bugs that attempted to flee pharloom

[storm wolf]

Just a dude that fled above the kingdom

[stuck lichen]

i see

[undone cloud]

Do we know what put Silk to sleep and caused everything? I'm also confused on how Weavenest Absolom fits in to a timeline, since I thought it implied the weavers predated Silk

[craggy smelt]

I guess they succeeded in fleeing pharloom, it just didn't pan out much beyond that

[storm wolf]

Also says that the curse only went down but that was kinda obvious

[stuck lichen]

kinda silly that someone fled pharloom and made a town like......... right over silks head

[woven fulcrum]

its not that they fled pharloom its that they went down to go to pharloom it said that something called them or something

probably was to show of the civ that was before pharloom

[craggy smelt]

the Weavers put Silk to sleep over some kind of falling out, not sure what it was exactly - they claim she lied to them
Weavenest Absolom just seems to be a weavenest built very deep - it's not unheard for a kingdom to reach the Abyss (Hallownest also delved that deep)
Silk created the weavers, so they definitely don't predate her

[undone cloud]

Also if Silk made the weavers, can she not just make more and farm them?

[dull pewter]

Is ss double the size of hollow knight?

[storm wolf]

But the ghost thingie was talking about the possessions right

[spark valve]

The weavers snared her and built the citadel to keep her asleep

[stuck lichen]

Tbf getting to the abyss in hk was a significantly simpler ordeal, U could just.. Walk there

[spark valve]

HK didn’t have a bunch of lava around

[stuck lichen]

^^

[spark valve]

That complicates descending

[craggy smelt]

maybe, but she's bound up at the time of the game and seems more interested in hunting the living ones
also seems like she's more invested in her silk-children

[dull pewter]

Boo

[stuck lichen]

Weak shi after playing ss

[dull pewter]

Lol

[undone cloud]

Yeah I guess I thought it was possible that the weavenest was concurrent with the ancient civilization. I don't think this matches the lore but originally I thought the first sinner was like a failed weaver and that Silk was infertile or something and that's why she made things like Lace

[craggy smelt]

yeah, but that was because Hallownest had dug tunnels right to it

[spark valve]

The ancient civilization probably predated the weavenest

They just found shit and set up there

[undone cloud]

And that at least some weavers predated silk

[stuck lichen]

There's literally a mob that does the exact same thing excdpg it also has flashstep and dodges ur every move

[spark valve]

They didn’t

[raven cove]

by a… very long time, one would imagine

[dull pewter]

Beuh im on the part where you kill that white lady first time

[craggy smelt]

i bet ancient civ is older than anything

[undone cloud]

Yeah I know i was saying that was my original impression during the game

[obsidian quail]

okay but Hornet leaving the Abyss was cinema

[stuck lichen]

Lace? Why are u in a spoiler channel when ur at the start of the game 🥀

[dull pewter]

P5 ss

[raven cove]

It was cinema for people who are easily entertained yes

[obsidian quail]

impossible

[raven cove]

Jangling keys ahh ending

[stuck lichen]

I need to do p5 so I can have 100% achievements in both games icl

[dull pewter]

This is lore channel but when I see the spoiler names and stuff idk what that is lmao

[obsidian quail]

i’m talking about the platform challenge

what are u talking about

[stuck lichen]

Dodging the spoilers by simply not understanding what's going on

[dull pewter]

The demon slayer movie came out

[stuck lichen]

Wtf really

[dull pewter]

The first onr

[raven cove]

the entire sequence

[sinful nimbus]

Trailer theme was pretty cool

[dull pewter]

I just pirate it

[obsidian quail]

how is it jangling keys

[stuck lichen]

First?? 3 years until we see the end of demon slayer ig

[sinful nimbus]

Christopher Larkin carries all the hype moments on his back

[dull pewter]

Yeah, do u want the link to the movie

[raven cove]

”hey, look at this thing from hollow knight, isn’t that cool?”

[stuck lichen]

Sure

[raven cove]

Though I will grant that Larkin is indeed the goat

[stuck lichen]

It was cool asf

[obsidian quail]

are u talking about the Abyss

[dull pewter]

Dms

[stuck lichen]

👍

[sinful nimbus]

"hey, look at this thing from hollow knight, isn't that cool?"
"well we retconned it, enjoy 😊 "

[stuck lichen]

How is it a retcon

[obsidian quail]

Hornet escaping the lava with the music was cinema

lock in Hornet

[tired zephyr]

which ending from HK do people think is canon to Silksong

[sinful nimbus]

The Abyss?

[stuck lichen]

Dream no more or the godhome one

[obsidian quail]

oh please not another one

[spark valve]

it's ambiguous between dream no more and embrace the void

[sinful nimbus]

Apparently void heart has a range limit now for no reason

[raven cove]

It having a range limit also makes no sense

[calm sundial]

Do we still think silksong is a sequel?

[raven cove]

It’s such a stupid handwave

[spark valve]

it is

[tired zephyr]

yes obv

[calm sundial]

Cool

[obsidian quail]

it could just be the Knight has to direct its attention

[spark valve]

alternatively: thk is the only canon ending because tk doesn't have void heart at all

[obsidian quail]

ur body does things ur not aware of all the time

like right now as we speak

[dull pewter]

Whats after sliksong?

Zote song

[stuck lichen]

Hollow knight: lace dlc

[raven cove]

but this is nonsensical given how we’re shown VH works in the first game

[tired zephyr]

until that lace dlc is made into it's own game and we wait 7 years for it

[obsidian quail]

it’s all the same Void but it has a will it bends to, the Knight, but that doesn’t mean it still can’t act out its nature

[sinful nimbus]

Also void wanting to consume the entire kingdom is goofy

[obsidian quail]

just like ur body just does things

[sinful nimbus]

How did they character assassinate a substance

[raven cove]

TK is the Void it’s not part of the Void it’s not the Void in its immediate vicinity it’s not the Void it’s focused on it’s just the Void period

[tired zephyr]

it doesn't want to tho does it?

[spark valve]

I mean it's not like it has a goal

[raven cove]

TK is the Void there is no distinction

[tired zephyr]

it was Silk's fault

[obsidian quail]

exactly, the Void is basically its body

[tired zephyr]

not the void

[obsidian quail]

and just like ur brain and ur body, it does shit on its own accord outside of ur conscious awareness

when TK directed its attention he fucking handled it

[raven cove]

That is a terrible analogy

[obsidian quail]

my goat

[tired zephyr]

like it's said she'll bring the whole kingdom crashing down just to save her child

[spark valve]

you can handwave most of act 3 well enough to be basically consistent with how void heart works in hk, but the knight having to physically attack void tendrils is goofy no matter how you slice it

[raven cove]

The Void wasn’t doing what it normally does either

[tired zephyr]

so I thought it was her fault not the void directly

[obsidian quail]

no it isn’t, ur gonna sit here and say ur body does everything ur aware of

that being said the Knight attacking the void was dumb

it could have been like the Knight appeared and then it chilled tf out

[spark valve]

that's the only part that's really inconsistent with vh existing

[raven cove]

I don’t need to wrestle my hand into submission if it does something I don’t want it to do what

[obsidian quail]

we agree that was dumb

[sinful nimbus]

Sure part of it is GMS but these entries are very weird

Void in HK was just a chill guy

[obsidian quail]

but i don’t think the void acting out has to be retcon

the dumb part was TK attacking itself

[spark valve]

I mean she's kind of oversimplifying it's not just void deciding to do it it's void adhering to the threads and traveling up them

[raven cove]

I mean I’m not sure how the Void not being an extension of TK at ALL times is consistent with what is known about VH

Like TK would never harm hornet it would never do the shit in act 3

[spark valve]

void that's under the effect of other stuff can ignore void heart

[obsidian quail]

this tells me that the Void has an inherent nature that isn’t conscious, but TK is now the conscious will of it, however it can still simply act out its nature still

[sinful nimbus]

This seems kinda silly

[spark valve]

maybe but it's the case in hk too

[foggy fractal]

ss lore is very silly

[raven cove]

This was never established Kingsmoulds/Collector aren’t very compelling evidence

[spark valve]

kingsmoulds might be an oversight but collector isn;t

[obsidian quail]

so u guys are saying TK should be aware of everything that’s happening with the Void 24/7?

[raven cove]

Kingsmoulds are almost certainly gameplay the same is true of Collector

TC weren’t gonna have a boss sit there and do nothing in a boss rush mode

[woven fulcrum]

I always felt like that the void has always had an innate nature to consume, of which we see at the end of etv, and maybe the knight has learned to control it, or atleast fight against it like we see in ss

[spark valve]

it's not about the boss rush mode

[sinful nimbus]

It should be in control of it 24/7 because that's how void heart works yeah

[raven cove]

The other time Collector is fought it could easily be assumed VH wasn’t assumed

[foggy fractal]

this bro 😭 void heart some sort of range limit now or smth

[sinful nimbus]

The equivalent would be if you had to prevent your hand from punching someone 24/7

[foggy fractal]

this could've been avoided if TC just didn't write void in smh !

[raven cove]

Kingsmoulds are almost certainly an oversight the only ones that are even possible to fight post VH are the PoP ones

idk why Collector wouldn’t be

[obsidian quail]

but i don’t understand, if the Void has its own inherent nature, and now just has a conscious will to go with it, how is it a retcon for it to act out its nature

[warm orchid]

What would happen to lace if she were to use lifeblood since shes made of silk

[obsidian quail]

the only thing that doesn’t make sense is TK attacking itself

but everything else seems plausible

[raven cove]

Void’s “inherent nature” is to do nothing and onlt attack shit in its immediate vicinity

[spark valve]

it could be in control of all normal void and still lose control of void that adheres to gms's threads

[raven cove]

It will chase you but not very far

[obsidian quail]

it’s under TK’s will but that doesn’t mean TK is aware of everything

[sinful nimbus]

Its under the control of a benevolent being who has previously left hornet unscathed in Dream No More

[raven cove]

Which is a silly handwave this is not an established property of Void

[sinful nimbus]

They are the same being

[spark valve]

sure it is you just have to not handwave collector

[obsidian quail]

did the shaman spell kinda make it go crash out?

[raven cove]

idk what universe TC could have possibly made it so Collector was affected by VH

[sinful nimbus]

The one where AB collector exists

[obsidian quail]

i don’t see how it’s unreasonable to say the void does things outside of TK awareness when the Void is its body and literally every being’s body does things outside of awareness

what’s unreasonable is the void attacking itself

[woven fulcrum]

I dont know, I feel like the knight isnt in "controls" the void but rather just commands it, I mean thats what void heart it, it was originally the kingsoul so to me it makes sense that the void sees it as the king

and that it can still lash out like in ss

[obsidian quail]

that’s inexcusable

[spark valve]

at the end of the day what happens happens and there's at least a possible explanation for the events of act 3 up until the ending where it has to tear some of its arms apart to show itself who's boss

[obsidian quail]

but come on we can make the rest work

[raven cove]

Me when I fall asleep so my leg tries to become the prime minister and my hand tries to murder my sister

[obsidian quail]

that’s a disingenuous argument

ur comparing ur body to the fucking Void

[raven cove]

Your analogy is terrible yes

[obsidian quail]

they’re gonna do different things

like what be fr

[spark valve]

I mean yeah that's the point according to how it's described in hk one would expect that to be analogous

[raven cove]

If there’s any explanation it’s what Tammo said

[obsidian quail]

it is not ur body’s inherent nature to do any of this

[raven cove]

It is also not the Void’s inherent nature to do what it does in act 3

[foggy fractal]

no no

[sinful nimbus]

Voids inherent nature is altered with void heart

[foggy fractal]

my arm once tried to become the president whilst I was asleep

this does happen

[raven cove]

That too!

[obsidian quail]

so disingenuous

[sinful nimbus]

If TK had to actively wrangle the void to do what it says it wouldn't really be very unified

[spark valve]

Armdy 2028

[obsidian quail]

yes that was dumb

[sinful nimbus]

So its a retcon

[zinc herald]

I wanna know more about the steelhearts so bad man why they gotta do this to me

[foggy fractal]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/868779414673031208/1139330386304966788/makesweet-r1wj5l.gif

[spark valve]

they seem to be pretty heavily teasing them and their assassins, seems likely it'll be in later updates

[obsidian quail]

i’ve been consistently saying TK attacking itself is inexcusable, once TK directed its attention to the goings on in Pharloom everything should have been fine

[whole hawk]

Sharpe is at least a backer boss sl were guaranteed to get more of them as DLC

[zinc herald]

I really hope they get a dlc in silksong

[raven cove]

Look the only explanation that actually works here is that VH doesn’t affect imprinted Void and the Void in SS is imprinted it’s still stupid and I personally would still call that a handwave but it’s better than there being an arbitrary range limit for no reason

[zinc herald]

still wanna see if there's any more steel soul changes but getting to act 3 takes a whiiiile lmao

[sinful nimbus]

The void tendrils in the abyss sure don't seem imprinted

[spark valve]

a range limit is one way to interpret the knight having a limited focus on any given quantity of void anyways

[sinful nimbus]

Its just void doing what it does when its not unified

[raven cove]

But Tammo that doesn’t make sense to exist as a restriction

[terse warren]

It sounds easy but what if that someone has a different (wrong) opinion from my own?

[spark valve]

it's arbitrary sure

[raven cove]

VH is the Void itself it’s not the Void in TK’s immediate vicinity or the Void it happens to be focused on at any given moment

[spark valve]

ashitaka reference

[raven cove]

It’s just… the Void

[obsidian quail]

and how is it unreasonable for Void to not do what it does outside of TK’s awareness?

[sinful nimbus]

Overheard someone irl saying they main wanderer's crest and my hand just lost control and headed directly for their face 😔

[obsidian quail]

like are u aware when ur body does every little thing

[woven fulcrum]

it just makes sense to me to think of the knight as the king of the void, I thought thats what hollow knight was trying to suggest in the first place

[obsidian quail]

i don’t see how that’s a stretch

attacking itself was so stupid but the rest can be believable

[sinful nimbus]

I don't think "Its not a retcon, there's actually a really contrived reason that not only was never hinted at but actually conflicts with the first game" is a great argument

[terse warren]

Maybe the citadel's meta was Wanderer Crest and that's why the Void started punching

Then HK remembered they too used to main Wanderer's and stopped it

[spark valve]

these aren't mutually exclusive

it can be both a retcon and have a potential handwave excuse

[sinful nimbus]

thats the point yeah

[whole hawk]

I never thought Voidheart meant that the knight just wholesale encompassed the entirety of void across the HKverse

[terse warren]

Friend of mine tried to say that the reason Lifeblood isn't making messy amalgamates in HK is because "the infection is stopping the deformities, so it's not a retcon"

[raven cove]

That is the only way it really makes sense to think about it though

[foggy fractal]

speaking of
which crest do you main

[obsidian quail]

how does it conflict with the first game when TK is in direct awareness of the Void in hallownest?

we don’t see anything else beyond that

[radiant vale]

Do you guys consider the weaver queen ending as bad?

[warm orchid]

Is this discussion just about how the voidheart and the knight are supposed to mean the void is supposed to be entirely pacified

[foggy fractal]

bad in which sense ?

[radiant vale]

well, thats what im asking

[spark valve]

it seems like bad things are happening

[whole hawk]

Any pre Act 3 ending is bad-ish.

[foggy fractal]

as in bad for Pharloom ? bad in writing ?

[obsidian quail]

yes, i’m saying it’s not unbelievable for it to not be pacified outside of TK’s awareness, but once TK is directly aware then it should be pacified immediately

[radiant vale]

I have seen some people call it the bad ending so i was wondering why they think that

[radiant vale]

like bad for hornet

[foggy fractal]

maybe idk

[spiral swift]

Bad for hornet and bad for pharloom

[sinful nimbus]

Might have to do this to them tbh

[spark valve]

both the cutscene and the narrative framing surrounding it?

[foggy fractal]

seems like she'll just control Pharloom, continuing the haunting ?

[radiant vale]

i do agree its bad for pharloom as seen, but why would you consider it a bad ending for hornet?

[raven cove]

Do you think WL could move like this

[obsidian quail]

we have no frame of reference for the true stretch of awareness that TK has of the Void, awareness and will are two different things

[sinful nimbus]

Maining crests is a crutch for bad players who hate variety

[spiral swift]

Well she becomes the thing she wanted to get rid of

[spark valve]

she doesn't want that to happen and the entire point of the silk and soul quest is to avoid it

[obsidian quail]

but it’s inexcusable for it to hit itself

that’s so dumb hahahaha

[radiant vale]

thats a valid take

[terse warren]

Considering they always pull this shit, yeah... They literally tried to explain every retcon in the game through some extremely contrived bs at which point they just gave up because I deflect all the arguments

[raven cove]

HOLY

[obsidian quail]

the tendrils should have just relaxed and not attacked Hornet and then TK shows up

[whole hawk]

Silksong is Hornet's story and Act 3 represents a big part of her development as a character. So I believe any ending that doesn't happen in Act 3 is a bad ending because it doesn't complete her character arc.

[wintry flame]

What's up with greyroot

[obsidian quail]

but i guess that would invalidate the severity of the situation

[foggy fractal]

grey and root

[radiant vale]

which isnt inherently bad but it does mess up pharloom which is unfortunate. Pharloom gets cooked regardless tho

[obsidian quail]

maybe

[raven cove]

She’s a weird plant witch

[wintry flame]

doesn't help

[spark valve]

it's certainly bad from her perspective

[terse warren]

You'd think so but that's actually a pretty controversial opinion

[wintry flame]

i meant like the plant itself

[warm orchid]

Isnt that kind of taking the descriptions offered in game too literally? The void pits with all the tendrils or whatever seem kind of aggressive and beastial compared to things like shades and whatever. Thats sort of like expecting a god of nature to not get hurt by lava or something just cuz lava is nature

[wintry flame]

like what's up with the roots and twisted bud

[raven cove]

There’s not really a lot to be said about that

[radiant vale]

im just wondering if she can fix what happened to pharloom after becoming the weaver queen and a higher being

[spiral swift]

Can't believe we have 2 roots ever and both are borderline eco terrorists

[terse warren]

I mean I guess she's just a parasite, but it doesn't explain why her kid was so far away, or why she has to die (?) to implant it into Hornet

[raven cove]

Greyroot isn’t a “root” and root isn’t the name of a species

[wintry flame]

or why it's so strong and effective it affects an ending and consumes two higher beings

[sage summit]

can I ask, who tf is the silk mother

[obsidian quail]

well it’s under TK’s will so he should be able to impose whatever he wants

[edgy stone]

Greyroot does seem to be one of the stronger characters we see in pharloom, even hornet couldn't beat the curse infestation thing that happened to her

[spark valve]

the implication from caretaker dialogue is that she wouldn't and she would just take over from gms

[raven cove]

Hornet isn’t a higher being and GMS is barely one but the bud merges with the former before consuming the latter

[terse warren]

Even when the bud gets removed, part of it is still left inside hornet

[raven cove]

It’s not that the bud is naturally able to do that

[terse warren]

Why is GMS "barely" one???

[wintry flame]

so whatever ends up being the bud in the twisted ending is a higher being by virtue of consuming hornet

[raven cove]

Actual budget HB she sucks ass compared to literally any other

[foggy fractal]

yeah the hollow knight isn't hollow nor is it a knight TRUST.

[edgy stone]

Its still sad we dont get to fight a weaver thats actually sane

[sage summit]

Who is GMS and where did she come from?

[edgy stone]

Feel like the ones we do are incredibly nerfed

[terse warren]

Unn

[wintry flame]

GET OUT OF SPOILER CHAT

[raven cove]

She’s a much weaker version of Radiance with very watered down PK powers

[radiant vale]

first sinner is one

[spiral swift]

Unn slander? What have we come to

[golden olive]

no way first sinner is sane

[edgy stone]

Shes batshit insane

[radiant vale]

well "sane" is kinda hard

[whole hawk]

First Sinner super boss in the DLC. Wait for it.

[wintry flame]

first sinner looks lucid-ish and kicks ass

[radiant vale]

yea i saw the sane part later

[terse warren]

Weaker than Radiance is crazy work considering GMS had a way easier time controlling bugs

[raven cove]

Unn is my goat and she’s far far more impressive than GMS

[edgy stone]

It does seem like her creations are much stronger than others though

Like weavers seem stronger than the moths to me

[wintry flame]

phantom is also made from silk right

[obsidian quail]

GMS was in the Void sea holding it off that’s pretty impressive

[spiral swift]

She's a weaker rad sure, but the haunting is fucking goated compared to the infection

[sinful nimbus]

Moths were kinda cracked

[abstract rivet]

Guys.. is ||Lace|| dead after we fight her a ||second time||?

[raven cove]

Her creations which she has to make piecemeal using existing lifeforms?

[wintry flame]

like that's basically confirmed that phantom and lace are siblings

[spark valve]

no

[sinful nimbus]

Haunting hasn't even finished destroying the kingdom yet

[raven cove]

Her creations which she has to use her own non regenerating silk to make?

[abstract rivet]

is she asleep or something

[foggy fractal]

wait the Light Yagami from Death Note ?

[obsidian quail]

isn’t the GMS holding off the Void sea a pretty good feat

[edgy stone]

Idk man I still think its more impressive than the moths and greenpath guys

[spark valve]

playing dead

[radiant vale]

You cant directly compare the power of 1 higher being to another cuz theres alot of different situations.

[raven cove]

Unn made an entire ecosystem, Radiance made an entire tribe without breaking a sweat

[golden olive]

u should get other endings, dont get spoiled

[foggy fractal]

what are you doing here ? mods get him !

[edgy stone]

She created aoneone of the strongest beings weve seen

Even if using a base for them thats incredible

[raven cove]

Me when I realize the Void Sea wouldn’t even be able to get NEAR PK or Rad

[radiant vale]

Tho shadelord does trap most beings or even potentially kill them if given the chance

[abstract rivet]

I haven't done final boss yet, just got to it, will get endings soon.

[terse warren]

The haunting started like yesterday compared to infection though it seems

[raven cove]

The fact that she was barely holding it off is not a point in her favour lmao

[radiant vale]

radiance literally gets devoured by void

[obsidian quail]

fair point, GMS had to retrieve the Weavers for their silk, but wasn’t she a bit nerfed?

[radiant vale]

you know how did pale king die

[whole hawk]

Radiance and Unn's creations are incomparable to the Weavers though. Who are clearly capable of some of the wildest shit.

[sinful nimbus]

True true

[raven cove]

UNIFIED Void being directed by the LORD OF SHADES after it breaks her aura

[obsidian quail]

what makes u say that

[terse warren]

Grief, most likely

[sinful nimbus]

I think the snail shamans killed him with the void

[pliant mountain]

what has unn done

[terse warren]

The void is also unified in Silksong by virtue of it being a sequel

[obsidian quail]

yeah Weavers absolutely shit on every other species

[edgy stone]

I always liked the idea the pale king ended himself due to his ability to see the future

[wintry flame]

GMS is a whole bitch compared to pale king simply because pale king is a communist

[sage summit]

Ive literally beaten the game, I just dont know much about her

[radiant vale]

well yea void given focus is probably scary for any higher being because of the sheer amount of "void" in the sea

[wintry flame]

my bad

[sage summit]

pale king was the goat

[spark valve]

not acting under its direction though which is probably important

[sage summit]

even if he committed mass infanticide...

[spiral swift]

Void given focus is scary for any higher being because my goat the knight would kill any higher being

[whole hawk]

Pale King was a monarch no

[wintry flame]

like wow the themes of exploitation and labor and slavery and religion in silksong are super on the nose

[whole hawk]

ita in the name

[raven cove]

The Void is unified UNDER TK’s WILL, in Act 3 it is not because if it was it would be under TK’’s control and not doing allat

[golden olive]

its bonkers bro u gotta experience everything for yourself!! but as far as i know, at this point, hornet stated that lace took her own life after the fight from her dialogue with the songclaive guy

[radiant vale]

didnt he die cuz he basically shed his outer shell and became a "mortal" bug

[edgy stone]

I dont think thats gms fault

[raven cove]

The Void in act 3 is behaving strangely under unique circumstances it’s not unified Void

[abstract rivet]

Yeah I have a bad habit of asking questions in a video game/movie before i finish it

[terse warren]

Honestly I doubt, I think he would've tried to keep changing stuff. I doubt he did it to himself. I think the emotions just caught up to him one day and boom heart attack

[wintry flame]

well who runs the citadel

[radiant vale]

theyre all horrible beings for mortal bugs

[edgy stone]

The conductors

[abstract rivet]

Didnt have much time to play Silksong cus of physic test

[sinful nimbus]

PK getting love despite SS's efforts to slander him

[terse warren]

GMS started running the citadel like yesterday

[spiral swift]

There was nothing to do at this point though, hallownest was vooked

[edgy stone]

Gms is a trapped god above the citadel she is not the ruler

[radiant vale]

but the citadel even when it was normal sounded pretty dystopian

[sinful nimbus]

yltsi

[wintry flame]

conductor romino's rotting corpse in the whiteward:

[golden olive]

is lace wearing a mask

[raven cove]

Yes but we aren’t talking about VGFocus

[wintry flame]

(it's him right?)

[sinful nimbus]

Well she is now

[wintry flame]

i understand it now

[golden olive]

is it? woah i never saw a corpse

[raven cove]

PK:

• Grants sapience to an entire kingdom passively via the beacon
• Makes a Charm that literally generates infinite Soul
• Is loved and worshipped by his subjects of their own volition
• Is by all accounts a very good ruler
• Sacrifices everything dear to him for the sake of his people
• Successfully managed to control the Void (I don’t know why the fuck Hornet is hating he literally did do this)
• Is actually a character
• Is a badass future seeing dragon wizard with a mastery over soul and essence

GMS

• Grants sapience to Weavers piecemeal while also draining herself
• Is desperately trying to get every last piece of Weaver silk because she apparently can’t generate more herself
• Has to mind control her subjects
• Is by all accounts a terrible ruler
• Sacrifices everything dear to her for her own sake with the only other thing she cares about being Lace
• Doesn’t know what Void is and is completely engulfed by it as soon as it does appear (ununified Void wouldn’t even be able to get near PK)
• Is not a character
• Has a grand total of four attacks does nothing interesting with Soul probably can’t even manipulate Essence and loses a 1v1 to the non HB child of the aforementioned Wyrm

[wary plover]

So far we have a kingdom that's falling and a kingdom that's fallen for a long time. We need a kingdom that's fell for a little bit and a kingdom that's just about to fall but not yet

[radiant vale]

well they do look similar but i dont think its ever directly stated

[radiant vale]

nice hallownest propaganda

[golden olive]

GMS at least tried to be a good mother tho

[spiral swift]

PK also made a functioning economy compared to one that runs off stupid little beads

[golden olive]

pale king aint give a shit about any of his offspring

[raven cove]

She sucked at that just like everything else

[terse warren]

Radiance couldn't even get people to remember her

[golden olive]

i meaaaaaan

[raven cove]

Uhm…

[radiant vale]

The entire world might be slowly falling apart and all kingdoms might be dying while higher beings fight each other

[spiral swift]

I fear radiance making people remember her is the plot of the entire first game

[terse warren]

Except the one time he did and it caused the collapse of his kingdom

[whole hawk]

Mother Silk did the one thing Pale King could never do lmao. And that was save the child she loved regardless of the cost.

[wintry flame]

one of her kids (supposedly) turned emo and went to live in shitsville, california playing the organ like fucking dracula

[sinful nimbus]

Evaluating PK off of his parenting is kinda weird when he wasn't intending on raising children he was trying to make an emotionless zombie

[terse warren]

Killing people isn't exactly remembering

[radiant vale]

pale king never loved his "children" they literally existed as a part of his plan to contain the radiance

[golden olive]

wait where's all the phantom lore

[sage summit]

Keep cooking

[raven cove]

The Moths did try to kill her, yes. The Weavers also rebelled against and sealed GMS, not sure what your point is? At least Rad was able to resist with the infection (which quickly covered basically all of Hallownest) before they could finish the job

[wintry flame]

pulling it out of my ass as we speak

[sinful nimbus]

Its like Elderbug saying crystals don't make good pillows like yeah duh

[wintry flame]

i genuinely don't know

[radiant vale]

i mean if thats the case GMS ruined pharloom with her mindcontrol before being sealed

[wintry flame]

phantom is so weird because she's an entirely optional boss who seems to be extremely lore important but we're given 2 lines and a steam trading card

[raven cove]

GMS is the weakest HB introduced without a doubt

[radiant vale]

pretty much same situation as radiance

[sage summit]

So whats GMS's relationship with silk? Like i just dont know how she came into existence

[raven cove]

She is actually just bad at everything

[sage summit]

lost lace was stronger than her

[sinful nimbus]

GMS doesn't have an origin afaik

[golden olive]

yeah and i can't tell if she's wearing a mask or not, which is important cuz lace seemingly isn't wearing one

[terse warren]

Pharloom is bigger than Hallownest (in sheer size, that is) and GMS is easily luring in bugs all the way from Bone Bottom, while Radiance was struggling to infect people a couple rooms below her

[sinful nimbus]

She's the source of silk

[raven cove]

You do realise Radiance is still sealed right

[radiant vale]

we just know shes a pale higher being with silk powers and she sometimes has 6 arms

[golden olive]

i guess she's getting controlled to an extent

[sinful nimbus]

She is, you can see it taken off her before the fight initiates

[terse warren]

And GMS was asleep

[wintry flame]

doesn't look like it

[sage summit]

gotta wait for the mossbag video, gotcha\

[golden olive]

is she wearing a mask for pure aura cuz like

[radiant vale]

lmfao

[sinful nimbus]

Probably

[ebon stratus]

)final boss): ||is grandmother silk our grandma?||

[spark valve]

radiance's is completely nonphysical so distance doesn't really matter tbf

[golden olive]

dammit thought i was onto something 😭

[radiant vale]

Yes

[edgy stone]

Its so funny that phantom is an important lore character as shes just a phantom of the opera spoof

[spark valve]

the infection and haunting are fairly comparable in terms of how dire they are at least as the game is now, infection would eventually get worse... probably

[terse warren]

Still, calling GMS "barely a higher being" when her feats are comparable to those of Rad is crazy work

[wintry flame]

"yeah this is a cool reference character btw she's the final boss's daughter as well as lace. This will never get explored ever. Die"

[golden olive]

what even is the "excess" of the citadel, the steam?

[obsidian quail]

oh my god he’s cooking

[spark valve]

sure but it's a joke

[obsidian quail]

Grand Mother Fraud

[raven cove]

Being sealed is far more limiting, also GMS was only able to affect the Citadel Caste because they stuffed silk into their shells Rad just needs you to have a mind - plants, single celled organisms, nothing is safe (and she’s also nonphysical meaning she can potentially spread over a much larger distance as WL implies)

[wintry flame]

are we doing silksong agendaposting

[sinful nimbus]

Radiance is way harder to kill

[radiant vale]

yea if i had a nickel for everytime a higher being mindcontrolled an entire kingdom before being sealed, id have 2 nickels which is weird

[obsidian quail]

okay but can we at least say Weavers are much stronger

[sage summit]

Y E S

[raven cove]

Rad has WAY more range than GMS and is WAY harder to kill

[golden olive]

weavers are stronger than what

[spark valve]

gms only does it after we don't even know what she was doing before getting sealed

[sage summit]

we've become powerscalers now

[raven cove]

Her infection is also like a lot nastier

[wintry flame]

side note but i fucking love whiteward btw

[sudden vine]

so from what i understand, bilewater wasnt always disgusting but ended up as the trash bin for the citadel?

[radiant vale]

ok i feel like people saying radiance= harder in fight so stronger is kinda silly

[raven cove]

She doesn’t need silk or any sorr of physical medium to spread

[obsidian quail]

the creations of the other Higher Beings

[sinful nimbus]

TC try to come up with an original plot challenge

[terse warren]

#sk-lore message

It started off as a serious explanation as to why the bud is able to consume her

[green yoke]

First Fraud got locked up for aura farming too hard. Idiot couldn't even handle a few tacks on the ground

[radiant vale]

its basically a runback of HK but with extra stuff

[obsidian quail]

she needs consciousness

[golden olive]

oh probably yeah

[sage summit]

pretty much, the putrified ducts lead into bilewater

[raven cove]

No that part was clearly a joke

[spark valve]

the bud could probably consume anything it grabbed like that other than idk maybe void

[sinful nimbus]

[radiant vale]

which isnt that bad cuz it does expand a bunch on the story and world

[sudden vine]

plus the little lake of clear water up where shakra's master is

[spark valve]

if pk was there and got nabbed he'd probably be fucked too

[radiant vale]

we actually confirmed get to the surface in silksong so

[sinful nimbus]

To the first games detriment

[terse warren]

It looked you actually thought that though

[edgy stone]

I really want a lifeblood representative higher being

[raven cove]

Soul laser

[obsidian quail]

u make fair points but we can make it work!

[wintry flame]

which makes the bud incredibly scary imo

[sinful nimbus]

I'd rather they make something new then try to force contrived references and retconning a bunch of stuff in the process

[obsidian quail]

WE CAN DO IT

[radiant vale]

well it brings in speculation

[wintry flame]

lifeblood got scary in silksong

[raven cove]

GMS would probably be able to resist the bud but she had just lost to Hornet

[edgy stone]

J think a life blood higher being it shouldn't be one that created lifeblood but one highjacked by lifeblood

[sage summit]

I wonder if dlc is just gonna be a whole new area, thatd be insane

[radiant vale]

it is what it is alas

[spark valve]

gms is also severely weakened yeah

[raven cove]

The bud was also only that strong because of Hornet

[obsidian quail]

GMS is nerfed i thought

[uncut holly]

Hey I got a question. Is there anyway to stop that damn giant skull guy from running into Bone Bottom and killing everyone

[sinful nimbus]

It didn't have to be

[golden olive]

what was retconned, genuine question?

[spark valve]

it's not like the bud grabs her immediately hornet has to basically kill her first

[radiant vale]

Anyone else feel like lifeblood originates from a higher being and spreads like an infection? cuz its heavily implied it might do so

[obsidian quail]

do u think making the Weavers made GMS weaker? they are considerably more powerful than the other creations

[empty sierra]

leave a quest uncompleted or an item unbought from the shop

[radiant vale]

imo yes

[empty sierra]

afaik it triggers when theres nothing left to do in bonebottom

[raven cove]

What are you comparing the weavers to here

[radiant vale]

She made a small race of weavers with most of her silk which made them far more stronger than other bugs

[uncut holly]

I am currently on a personal quest to save Pillby. The guy by the bench

[raven cove]

PK doesn’t have “creations” Unn made an entire ecosystem and Rad an entire species from scratch the scale is completely different

[obsidian quail]

the Moths or Unn’s creations, or PK giving bugs higher consciousness

[uncut holly]

And i have just failed

[sinful nimbus]

Snail Shamans now use void magic
3 queens is now canon
The hive is now renowned for their... steelwork?
Herrah is now a weaver
Void acts completely out of character
Apparently PK's moulds didn't work
The Hollow Knight and Sealed Siblings don't lead into Silksong

[raven cove]

#sk-lore message

[sinful nimbus]

I probably missed a few

[spark valve]

She does seem really interested in getting that silk back

[raven cove]

This is a very strange comparison

[obsidian quail]

making super spiders could have made her weaker

[edgy stone]

I do think radiance is stronger than the gms but is also weaker in a sense

[uncut holly]

They are associates

[raven cove]

Creating the Weavers also apparently drains her yes

Since she doesn’t have an infinite supply of silk

[radiant vale]

the hive is known for their combat too since they trained hornet

[edgy stone]

We dont know what will kill gms and the pale king but we do know radiance needs to be worshipped to live

[empty sierra]

herrah WASNT a weaver??

[radiant vale]

perhaps thats why shes called a hornet

[edgy stone]

Which is a pretty big flaw

[sinful nimbus]

No she looked nothing like them and far more resembled regular spiders

[uncut holly]

Thought the Yeti Snow Moth was really cool

[radiant vale]

ok we dont know she NEEDS it to live

[golden olive]

PK's molds didn't work?

[uncut holly]

Technically this thing would be related to the moths, as they are both moth. This ones more of a cryptid though

[spark valve]

Radiance just needs to be remembered

[radiant vale]

she might've just been pissed her own creations were altered by the pale king

[raven cove]

It’s not a “flaw” it is her nature as a nonphysical being and she clearly had a way around it

[lethal swan]

im stuck and i dont know how to get out

[empty sierra]

arent spiders and weavers the same in hk universe?

[golden olive]

naw

[sinful nimbus]

No weavers are a particular type of spider (Modified Pharlid to be specific)

[radiant vale]

try the help channel, also go right

[raven cove]

She needs to be remembered in order to have a place to exist because she’s essentially a living idea

She can force things to remember her, so it’s a nonissue

[lethal swan]

i know but that doesnt lead to anything

[sinful nimbus]

Oh also weavers apparently have trouble reproducing despite that obviously not being the case in HK

No one wanted that lore drop TC

[spark valve]

Don’t ask where little weavers come from

[raven cove]

PK’s other kids

[spark valve]

Infection uh shrunk them

[radiant vale]

where does it say she needs to be remembered or she dies

[ancient scroll]

has anyone figured out what the tablets in the snail shaman chapel mean?

[empty sierra]

also how did void act out of character?

[raven cove]

Seer

[obsidian quail]

must be to excuse why there aren’t a fuckton of Weavers around

[spark valve]

I think it’s more to create a narrative parallel between gms and Herrah tbh

[raven cove]

Also I think it merits mentioning just how much more difficult Rad is to deal with than GMS

[spark valve]

Sure but that’s just because she’s a dream

[empty sierra]

maybe this is the case only in pharloom for some reason? or to their knowledge

[obsidian quail]

isn’t that because she exists in dreams

[raven cove]

Which is important yes

[green yoke]

mfers in here really acting like this guy

[raven cove]

It means she is much much harder to kill

[radiant vale]

i mean its biologically ingrained into her to believe in the radiance and we dont know too much about radiance in general

[obsidian quail]

but does that make her more powerful than GMS?

[raven cove]

GMS can be sealed by fuck ass Weavers Rad required a likely impossible pure vessel

[spark valve]

Herrah had trouble outside of Pharloom, but we know weavers in the lands beyond found other ways around it

[raven cove]

Like if GMS was in Hallownest PK could go over and beam the shit out of her

[spark valve]

Both of them are sealed only temporarily

[obsidian quail]

i thought the main issue of Rad is that she’s so hard to deal with, not necessarily super powerful

[spark valve]

Basically

[radiant vale]

and radiance can be sealed by a random ass vessel for ages to come

[wild falcon]

I like how hornet calls out shamans for using void, like "Are you guys fucking insane"

[raven cove]

I’m not sure that distinction matters in this context

Rad being so much harder to deal with and potentially far more destructive as a result makes her more powerful

[wild falcon]

Why is plague everywhere, even when hollow knight is still sealed?

[sinful nimbus]

Despite being unified under TK it basically does nothing to help Hornet and the void is still hostile

[green yoke]

"did you not see the multiple tablets where we talk about how cool the void is and how much we love sacrificing other bugs"

"No"

"Sounds like a you problem, then"

[spark valve]

That feels like a really weird way to define power

[radiant vale]

cuz the Hollow knight was flawed, thats why in the normal ending

YOU as the knight take theirn place since youre truly hollow

[obsidian quail]

i wouldn’t say that’s how u judge what’s more powerful

[raven cove]

Power is defined as the capacity to make something act a particular way

[radiant vale]

which is pretty much non canon at this point with silksong

[wild falcon]

Not really, pale lady points out that our knight has strong will, which is bad for vessel

Our knight was casted away for a reason

[empty sierra]

how is it unified under TK? its clearly shown that the knight fights off the void thats attacking hornet, implying that he doesnt have complete control

[golden olive]

can we even say the knight was truly hollow after seeing him save hornet

[spark valve]

I think defining power in specific contexts for gods is a bad way to compare them

[wild falcon]

Have to save his half-sister and aura farm on hk fans

[obsidian quail]

that’s her criticism, which is a fair one

[teal shell]

sealeds a stretch

[obsidian quail]

it shouldn’t have to fight off the void

[raven cove]

I mean Rad’s infection and creation of the moth tribe are more impressive than anything GMS does idk how else I can compare them

[obsidian quail]

it is the void

[sinful nimbus]

Void Heart "unites the void under the bearer's will" and this is shown in HK multiple times

[uncut holly]

Whats TK again?

[wild falcon]

I guess pharloom isn't really his domain

[radiant vale]

its just a rerun of sealing radiance til someone else finds a truly hollow vessel but yea

[teal shell]

they basically put radiance in a cardboard box to get dealt with later

[obsidian quail]

the Knight

[uncut holly]

Ah

[spark valve]

They’re pretty comparable

[obsidian quail]

how is it more impressive than Weavers?

they’re pretty impressive no?

[spark valve]

They just have different power sets ranking them is weird

[raven cove]

Rad makes an entire tribe without breaking a sweat GMS makes the Weavers piecemeal while draining herself

[uncut holly]

I mean the Void is unified in all void associated endings no matter what. Its very unified in the Godhome ending but the void still becomes unified to kill the Radiance

[obsidian quail]

seems more like different realms of power

[wild falcon]

Then seer helps us to fight radiance, cause it is her duty to guide dreamnail wielder

[golden olive]

it's possible that there's a distance limit or something similar that didn't let him control the void in pharloom, but it's still weird that the void seemingly attacked hornet with the knight nearby

[obsidian quail]

but the moths can’t compare to the Weavers

[raven cove]

The infection is more dangerous than the haunting because it is a) much harder to deal with b) has no range limit and c) does not require a medium

[sinful nimbus]

Moths were pretty crazy

[empty sierra]

void is still shown to act independently (the tentacles in HK abyss) also he probably doesnt have influence unless he's there void is HUGE

[wild falcon]

You know, he just had to aura farm

[raven cove]

Moths are very strong actually but they were pacifists

[radiant vale]

my assumption is that The Abyss is massive and covers atleast multiple kingdoms and theres an absurd amount of void which is essentially innately chaotic and hard to control, and the knight not being able to fully control all of it makes sense

[golden olive]

wait aura farming knight does actually explain it 💀

[wild falcon]

Hollow Knight Mothtale confirmed?

[sinful nimbus]

Void doesn't act independently in HK after getting void heart.

[teal shell]

radiance has to be killed from within the dream of a person trying to contain her, she isnt strong herself shes just functionally immortal unless an extremely specific set if circumstances happen, gms and the weavers are just extremely powerful but remain in a physical world and are thus able to be dealt with physical means

[uncut holly]

I think Moths and Weavers are probably on a similar level tbh

[radiant vale]

like has anyone wondered why theres an abyss under hallownest and pharloom? it might just be under every kingdom

[obsidian quail]

that’s because TK is directly aware of the Void in its vicinity

[solar agate]

Can you find Gilly after you defeat the Outcast boss?

[obsidian quail]

IM TRYING TO MAKE IT WORK

[sinful nimbus]

Why wouldn't it be aware of the other void it controls.

[wild falcon]

Abyss is probably like bottom layer of the world, even bugs are similar

[solar agate]

I have a feeling Gilly WAS the Outcast boss

[obsidian quail]

Star i’m trying my best

[sinful nimbus]

That's like if I had 100 extra limbs I wasn't aware of

[uncut holly]

Weavers can weave spells, mess with peoples minds and memory, and do whatever the haunting is. Moths can send people into different planes of existence and save them from them

[raven cove]

I mean we can compare her to PK (who based on descriptions seems to be relative to Rad) if you’d prefer they have more comparible powersets

[sinful nimbus]

Stop trying bro its just plain bad writing 😭

[golden olive]

i think GMS' and lace's presence might've interfered with the knight's control over the void

[radiant vale]

The abyss had a whole civilization since you can see the lore tablets so it might've just been a world spanning ancient civilization before they were devoured by the abyss

[blissful harbor]

are you aware of the movement of every cell in your body?

[spark valve]

powerscaling hbs in the big 25

[sinful nimbus]

If tendrils are comparable to cells supposedly TK is in control of all of them

[empty sierra]

its very easy to interpret void as an enormous mass that TK probably cant 100% control

[uncut holly]

I dont think alot of things can be linearly power scaled

[sinful nimbus]

Which contradicts the first game and is a retcon

IE bad writing

[radiant vale]

the weakest higher being so far is actually nightmare heart

[uncut holly]

Pale King was powerful but couldnt touch the Radiance, just because they where immaterial

[wild falcon]

Another question, how knight figured out that hornet entered void? I guess he felt her on the first dive and went sonic speed to pharloom

[empty sierra]

"unifies the void to the bearers will" does not imply the entirety of the void in every kingdom and domain

[uncut holly]

Its likely that without the void and the radiance specifically being locked in a vessel that was hollow it physically could not die

[green yoke]

My guy has never heard of nuance. You're acting like hard facts were ever established

[radiant vale]

the pale king shed his true body and became a mortal

[empty sierra]

it could be localized

[obsidian quail]

but did moths show anything on the level of Weavers

[raven cove]

It’s hardly powerscaling I don’t feel it’s at all unreasonable that GMS seems rather lacking when compared to her contemporaries