sk-lore

[gilded beacon]

Yeah, but I mean like a doc with all the canon lore well explained and organize type thing

[sinful nimbus]

I doubt it

[gilded beacon]

Sigh

[sinful nimbus]

Obligatory

[vestal swan]

That's not how lore bibles work it's usually just a compilation of ideas whether they made it into the game or not and explanations of why some things are the way they are, kind of like the dev notes in the game but way more expensive

[vestal swan]

What the hell is this

[sinful nimbus]

old interview

[woeful rain]

Who is Gibson

[gilded beacon]

Mmmm.... Worm soup...

[vestal swan]

Oh it's explaining Cloth no longer being burlap

I didn't realize that was part of an interview I just thought that was like a one-off AMA comment about burlap not existing

[sinful nimbus]

Hollow Knight's artist

[foggy fractal]

Ari Gibson

[runic musk]

Didnt know silkworms are boiled alive in their cocoons

[gilded beacon]

They aren't, in real world

Their are taken out of the cocoons and then boil the cocoon so the silk untangles

Maybe in HK they simply doesn't care
Or they enjoy Worm soup

[runic musk]

Aren't they also entirely dependant on humans for survival or am I thinking of the wrong moth

[gilded beacon]

Maybe? Lots of animals have been domesticated so they depend on us to survive
I don't know if silkworms are the case

[runic musk]

Oh they are I'm thinking of the right one

Iirc they tend to have a habit of getting stuck in their cocoons too

[gilded beacon]

Yeah, we crossed the worms that produce the most silk, now their descendants produce too much silk so it's too thick for them to break out

[runic musk]

Interesting bugs they are

[gilded beacon]

Most bugs are

Also silkworm soup must be delicacy in Pharloom

[gentle aspen]

the knight ain’t dead

[sinful nimbus]

🐌

[blazing anchor]

Grub

[raven condor]

How deeply do we think the thematic parallels between the two games will run?

[spark valve]

Not particularly

It’s kind of key to HK’s themes that the kingdom is dead and you’re laying it to rest. SS is VERY different

[sinful nimbus]

As if TC understand the themes of their own game

[raven condor]

I mean, I feel like there are definitely some boss parallels

[flat hearth]

6.5 days brothers

[viscid ridge]

Hopefully only surface level, the only parallel to me seems to be us getting to Bonebottem, being comparable to us getting to Dirtmouth, and a few other things, but i think the game will have a vastly different structure

[raven condor]

We shall see soon

Can’t wait to kill the three sleepers to open the white egg church

[viscid ridge]

Oooh im so excited come onn Thursday

[viscid ridge]

Yeah talking about that, i wonder if we are still going to do something in the rule of 3?

Like maybe free weavers and such, but i feel that we'll help more than just 3

[sinful nimbus]

Minor nitpick but I'm not fond of rehashing concepts like this

[spark valve]

this is so superficial and has nothing whatsoever to do with the themes of the game??

[raven condor]

Lace and hornet seem to play similar gameplay roles as well

[viscid ridge]

Its not really a rehash, they just both have mother in the name, and Moss mother is a tutorial boss, while Gruzz isn't even optional

[sinful nimbus]

Its pretty obviously a gruz mother analogue

The only real difference is that one doesn't make milk

[eternal gazelle]

their attack patterns aren't remotely similar

[viscid ridge]

I don't think so, everyone says Lace is like hornet, but i think maybe seth is like hornet

[eternal gazelle]

the only similarity between them is that they're mothers

[raven condor]

In a church

At the start of the game

[sinful nimbus]

Maternal boss version of a common enemy

[eternal gazelle]

half the rooms in pharloom qualify as churches

[sinful nimbus]

I realize its not a big issue I just think its a bit lame

[viscid ridge]

If you deconstruct everything to a basic level, everything will be a rehash

[eternal gazelle]

they're not trying to do some parallel world shit

[midnight reef]

true!

[raven condor]

No they are not, but I do think there will be parallels

[midnight reef]

Godhome broke lore, but I do have to be honest it is a cool idea

[sinful nimbus]

It feels like just moss mother and lace tbh

And Lace is cool so who cares

[viscid ridge]

Its like daying:" I think its lame that there are abugs in Silksong, seems to be a obvious rehash of the bugs in Hollow Knight." 🤣 No hate tho

[sinful nimbus]

That's not at all the same thing because you're just describing the setting

[midnight reef]

I like the pantheons in concept, and I like the ability to easily refight bosses
Just having it be a boring menu would be... boring
I think it would've been better if TC didnt try so hard to make it part of the lore, and locked on of the endings behind it

[viscid ridge]

Yeah we'll see when silksong comes

[lethal burrow]

You're right they both have black eyes

[midnight reef]

Moss Mother really isnt a rehash of any other boss

[edgy nebula]

topic?

[midnight reef]

Progression wise shes kinda gruz mother? but shes fought differently

[lethal burrow]

Which mother is the most motherly?

[midnight reef]

namely she has more proper attacks, instead of just trying to crush you in 2 slightly different ways

[edgy nebula]

gruz mother

moss mother doesnt even explode into 500 babies when you kill her

[lethal burrow]

What even is gruz

[edgy nebula]

wdym

[viscid ridge]

One think i hope, is that there is some sort of tool to extend nail length, cause im a mark of pride enjoyer

Needle*

[flat hearth]

What a ripoff

[lapis creek]

i think ss has more of an emphasis on ascending than hk had on descending

like in hk you were kind of aimless, just generally going downward because thats where things are

[spark valve]

I mean hk gives you an explicit goal in the form of the pilgrim's way sign pretty early on, I'm not sure that's different in SS with the citadel

[lapis creek]

pilgrims way is lame and you know it

which way does it even go

ive never tried to draw it

[sinful nimbus]

wym

[spark valve]

this is the pilgrim's way (probably, there's an alternative path through greenpath that could maybe be viable but the toll bench makes me favor this)

but my point was more about the game directing you to the city as an important place

The Pilgrim's Way
Travellers of Hallownest, descend through verdant wilds and fungal groves to the city at this kingdom's heart.
There all wishes shall be granted, all truths revealed.

[foggy fractal]

this is false I went there and didn't get my wishes granted nor do I have more knowledge

[lapis creek]

why does yours go so far to the left

[spark valve]

because of the toll bench

[sinful nimbus]

And all the roads

[lapis creek]

fair enough

[spark valve]

between these rooms which looks like the pilgrim's way

[lapis creek]

i didnt look at the rooms

its not like all of it is paved especially later on but yeah thats what the benfch is for

[spark valve]

yeah not all of it is paved but that bit is

[lapis creek]

idk why they went all that way and not just straight down

[spark valve]

there's also that room in greenpath that has those crossroads wagon things and no plants that's right before the bench room

[lapis creek]

i also dont know why they made you need dash but oh well

actually i guess thats all of it anyway

[spark valve]

Curse of metroidvania game design

[lapis creek]

why would the pale king do this

[spark valve]

Fitness programs

[lapis creek]

the cities are so walkable

i dont even think you need claw to navigate city of tears

although i could be wrong

[midnight zinc]

Idk I’ve never been to a city that made me jump that much

[lapis creek]

ok a lake did drain into it

[spark valve]

I had to do some of city clawless dashless in a rando it was bad

[lapis creek]

were you able to swim at least

[spark valve]

No

[lapis creek]

awful

ive drowned a couple times on the way to nailsmith

but the elevators do help

[chilly gyro]

going to be fun seeing what the new higher being gets introduced with the thing controlling eveyone is farloom

[tawdry flare]

it is Not Confirmed to be a Higher Being

[raven condor]

Who would win in a fight y’all.

[edgy nebula]

the knight

[raven condor]

But he baby

[uneven oak]

the knight

[terse wadi]

TK is literally a god by the end of the game

But idk, maybe Hornet ascends to godhood at the end of pharloom idk

[viscid ridge]

Hmmm i wonder 🤣

[bright tinsel]

Wait somethings controlling the Pharloom citizens as well? The bugs just can’t catch a break, can they?

[chilly gyro]

afraid not. maybe we'll get a change of pace when Zoat Boat comes out

[bright tinsel]

The funniest thing is that if TC decides to continue making games in the HK universe, a Zote game is the most likely next step as the “third playable character” that could’ve been reached in the Kickstarter was obviously meant to be Zote

[terse wadi]

plottwist it's a quirrel prequel/j

[real crater]

A quirell sequel even better

[terse wadi]

Bro's dead wym

[real crater]

I haven't seen any dead bodies u know what that means

[terse wadi]

This isn't a cheap Telenovella

[real crater]

I mean it could be

[bright tinsel]

He’s as good as bug dust

[real crater]

I haven't seen any quirell shaped bug dust

[bright tinsel]

He literally said that he felt like “his age was catching up to him” after freeing that one dreamer, he might not have been dead then, but without the mask of immortality or whatever, he’d be dead in a week tops

[real crater]

Brother I am joking around I am not serious

[bright tinsel]

I thought so :p

[foggy oriole]

Ez: Silksong is confirmed ||don't quote me on it tho|| that it's a prequel and that being said the knight not only solos Absolute Radiance and literally every other boss and beat Hornet twice we have a winner

[high violet]

it could be one but it has not been confirmed as one yet

[lapis creek]

oh yeah for sure it's a prequel hornet actually cut off her wings, threw out all her grenades, sent the weavers back to hallownest so that they could get infected and leave again, and lost all of her abilities yet again by suffering a tragic but obviously nonlethal concussion from the unimportant and irrelevant story she's in

great job fellas nice work

knight still has void heart though so it's gonna be a loss for hornet unless she can pull something together during the game

[edgy nebula]

i cant wait for sharpe and the gang to be expanded on

easily some of the most interesting characters we've been shown

[graceful grail]

Do you think Hornet will be stronger than the knight at the end of her journey in pharloom??

[terse wadi]

Unless she also asceneds to godhood, no

[tawdry flare]

Even without them being void the Steel faction is and could be super interesting

[stray fog]

The shade lord is too op

[edgy nebula]

my thoughts exactly, cant wait to see them ingame

[real crater]

They probably use it to actually contain void

[edgy nebula]

i dont think steel beings are related to void at all

[weak surge]

[terse warren]

Eh?

[supple blade]

the knight aint dead

either they get locked in the black egg, go eepy with the other shades, or become the shade lord

[supple blade]

those are two tutorial bosses, I don't think there's a lot of ways to go with those

also I don't think moss mother is going to explode into gruzzerflies any time soon

like, I feel like you're just going off of "they both have mother in their name"

[digital hemlock]

she lays eggs outside so

[bright tinsel]

Wait, a detail that we're not thinking of here, if the godhome endings are the Canon one, that means that Hallownest is fine at the moment (because you know, the Shade Lord fucking killed Radiance), BUT it also means that Hornet interacted with/fought against The Hollow Knight afterwards, as he seemingly lost all that infection stuff after Abs Rad died. So, if Hornet mentions that fight/interaction, it will be confirmed that that ending in particular is the Canon one

[rose siren]

Why Shade Lord killing Radiance means everything alright in the Hollownest? Corruption will evaporate but we don't know Shadow consequences on the world

[bright tinsel]

Yes true, but if it's the flower variation of the ending... well we have no clue what happened to shade lord so it's safe to assume that Hallownest will be fine in that one

[rose siren]

I was proposing it in discussion channel but will repeat it here.
What if Silksong is not a sequel but just one more alternative ending? For example, Silksong starts somewhere between HK start and all current possible endings. And by playing SS we build the whole new alternative to what happens in Hollownest

[bright tinsel]

You mean like between the Greenpath fight, and the Kings Brand one?

[rose siren]

Yes, something like this
Maybe there are some other points that I missing as I am not very experienced in the HK lore

[bright tinsel]

Well I'd understand that... if it wasn't for the fact that Hornet doesn't use any of her other Silksong weapons or skills in that fight. Sure she uses the Silk-circle and Spike Bomb, but that's it from what I can remember

[rose siren]

I just think that making one of the endings - "True Ending" is not really HK way. HK is a personal journey and making irrelevant big part of journeys means your experience wasn't true.
The whole system of thousands of vessels points to a thing that each player have their own journey, they are this one of the vessels.

[magic isle]

we discussing whether this is a sequel or prequel?

[gentle aspen]

if the godhome endings are the canon one
They’re not, all endings are canon

Hornet interacted/fought against THK afterwards
She has no reason to fight a weakened crippled HK who uses their nail as a crutch

[gentle aspen]

it has no consequences

[wanton eagle]

Yeah I do like the idea that it'll be a sequel but it'll be vague which ending it's following up on (making sealed siblings the only one that's likely to be not canon)

But it also could be like, all endings are canon and therefore any ending that doesn't follow into Silksong just means that's how the story ended in that one and Silksong isn't real to that ending but that ending still happened

[high violet]

damn prequel and sequel talks have been especially common lately

[wanton eagle]

Yeah it's like, the biggest question about the game I think

At least until the game releases

[high violet]

tbh i actually care more about Silksongs world and pharloom more than whether its a sequel or prequel

[wanton eagle]

I don't especially care about timelines or anything, I'm more interested in the stuff going on just in Pharloom, but we have very little to go off that isn't already more or less fully explored without the actual context of the game

[wanton eagle]

Yeah real

[high violet]

soemthing i loved about the original HK is seeing how the society functioned and stuff, so im super interested in the seemingly way more fleshed out society in pharloom

[real crater]

I feel like the biggest question is will the soundtrack play a narrative role in the game

Like will the soundtrack interact with the gameplay in a significant way or not will it be just a soundtrack

[high violet]

would be cool, i'd be interested to see

[wanton eagle]

There's almost no point in HK where the soundtrack is diagetic but given Pharloom is more centred around song I think it would very possible and interesting

[real crater]

I feel like it would be so cool to be able to interact with that mechanic within actual fights like u get extra damage if u hit the boss on the beat would be cool to see

[wanton eagle]

Rhythm boss is totally possible but I doubt it'd be a major mechanic for the entire game

[real crater]

Yeah it would be cool to see but yeah in the entire game would be too much

[wanton eagle]

Mm, the design is mostly based around like, platforming at the same time as fighting so adding rhythm timing to every fight would complicate boss design a lot and it'd also mess with a lot of mechanics that work differently outside of bosses (like how is the buzzsaw tool gonna hit on beat?)

[real crater]

It would be cool to have a rhythm based boss where u can only damage a certain part of the boss and it opens and closes based on the boss soundtrack

[bright tinsel]

Aw man, why did no one try that with the kickstarter boss

[real crater]

I think backers only give ideas for bosses they don't give like gameplay for it

[wanton eagle]

But I could totally see Trobbio or some other boss with similar theming having diagetic music that alters the arena or has like, instruments send out attacks based on the song like sweet cap and KK in Deltarune

[real crater]

If u have played nine sols the twins have a similar mechanic where attacks are telegraphed through music could be cool for silksong

[wanton eagle]

Also the Kickstarter was years ago and well before the idea of Silksong was a thing so the original game wasn't very based around music and making a rhythm boss would be kinda weird in the original hollow knight

[loud yoke]

Hello

[lapis creek]

Shade lord appears to just be all the siblings joined together into one very powerful being, and the knight appears to still be in control. But in dream no more when the siblings were working together, they just went back to the abyss when they were finished. So even though the tone of the ending kind of disagrees with this, we don't really have any reason to assume shade lord would do anything except go back to the abyss.

[quartz salmon]

On the contrary I think that scene of the shade lord shrieking and violently erupting out of the Godseeker's corpse suggests that everything won't be fine in Hallownest

And theres even more proof of that when you give the Everbloom to Godseeker and Shade Lord ends up trapped or banished or erased within the flower

It's a dangerous force that the flower erases

[spark valve]

it is a bad scene that creates false impressions

everything will be fine

los doesn't have any different motivations than it does in dnm and it does the same thing there etv just doesn't cut back afterwards to show it leaving

[lapis creek]

in dream no more the hollow knight explodes and a bunch of void rushes out of it, we just don't really see it and we see that everything is fine afterwards

etv is basically just dnm but with more sinister music and gory details, and they cut it early before you can see what happens next

i agree that the tone set by this is slightly different but seriously what do you think is gonna happen

[quartz salmon]

Well I hear you but what are the ramifications of all those millions of vessels becoming one thing

[sinful nimbus]

The same as in Dream No More

Where The Knight also has void heart

[lapis creek]

void heart suggests they're all united under the knight's will anyway

[quartz salmon]

Well alright

[spark valve]

idk where the 'shade lord is all the siblings joined together' thing comes from, it's technically accurate but not really a good way to describe what it is

[lapis creek]

yeah i guess

it's void given focus

[quartz salmon]

Instead of a lot of little guys there's one big guy

[lapis creek]

if it turned out that shade lord was dangerous we would have to account for where the knight's overriding will goes

[spark valve]

if it turned out it was dangerous hornet would be dead anyways

[lapis creek]

given that void heart does still exist in godseeker mode

[lapis creek]

maybe the cultists are very speedy

[spark valve]

wdym clearly it getting empowered by godseeker focus means it loses its control over void as its power increases!
it gets too good at controlling void to control void

[pine plume]

That doesn't really make sense to me. Doesn't the void heart show that the knight has complete control over the void?

[lapis creek]

tammo is being sarcastic

it's funny if youve seen this argument a lot of times

[pine plume]

Oh mb

[pine plume]

Do we rlly know anything about silksongs lore yet or are we still in the dark

[vestal swan]

There's some things we do know but a lot of things could have been changed a lot of things are very vague and best we have a couple of NPC interactions and visuals to look at

[pine plume]

Ok

[polar latch]

trying to ID some of the bugs in the release trailer, i think this is pretty accurate? im pretty confident on the jungle nymph and the mantises tbh

i tried to ID the big fat guy that tries to swallow hornet but that thing might just be like. Fantasy Bug Thing like half of hollow knights enemies are lol

[real crater]

I think the green one is a praying mantis

[pine plume]

That picture of the actual bug on the right is terrifying bro

[spark valve]

the clocktower things are probably robots

[polar latch]

i often forget that people are afraid of bugs lol i am So Autistic About Bugs

[polar latch]

which green one?

[real crater]

Could be based on actual bugs in pharloom

[polar latch]

yeah i agree

those thangs are probably another mantis tribe or smth, im glad they look more like actual mantises than the ones in HK (well, the infected mantises looked pretty accurate)

[real crater]

Especially the left one circled

[polar latch]

oh absolutely

[gilded beacon]

I think that the green ones may be aphids or lacewings,
Also I think that the boss may be based in leaf bugs, or bugs mimic plants, either that or they use the foliage to camouflage like the bag worm

The green ones could also be mantidflies, bug that look like mantises but aren't

They could always be made up bugs idk

[polar latch]

Jungle nymphs are a type of stickbug! They're close to leaf bugs and I think they're extremely accurate imo

[polar latch]

Mantidflies are on option I considered!! Could totally be that

[gilded beacon]

They look like mantises, but not quite

[white bear]

Speaking of bug species, I hope we get lions this time

[gilded beacon]

I think that they are more leaf-like than stick-like I see your point tho

[polar latch]

i mean, just look at the real bug, they're VERY leaf like irl

[gilded beacon]

Considering that we already have ants having lion ants too seems a little far fetched

[polar latch]

antlions could be awesome tbh

i just saw an adult antlion for the first time like a couple weeks ago, insane animals

[gilded beacon]

We're also assuming that they aren't some sort of disguise or moss kin kinda thing

If we had antlions I hope that they are located in the Desert area, it makes the most sense

About the Big Moss bug I have no idea, probably is completely made up

[polar latch]

antlions actually can live in many different places! The species I found was one that lives in tree bark as a larva! But I agree, desert antlions are the most iconic type, most people think of them first

[gilded beacon]

When people think of antlions they think of the desert ones to be fair

I wouldn't mind if we find them anywhere else, HK really doesn't care that much about that

[bleak lance]

"zombie boss"

[gilded beacon]

That was the Broken Vessel before it was put in Ancient Basin

And most bosses are zombies really

[bleak lance]

makes sense but its very comedic to imagine a stereotypical zombie in hk

[gilded beacon]

They would be disappointed after discovering that the Knight has no brain

[bleak lance]

idk if anyone in the game has a brain, they would be very hungry zombies

[gilded beacon]

Other than the jellyfish in Fog Canyon all bugs must have brains

And maybe the White Lady has a brain too?

[sinful nimbus]

I think SS should let you control antlions with a pheromone tool

[gilded beacon]

Like a tool?

Like how Hiveblood makes you inmune to the bees?

[sinful nimbus]

No you press M1 to redirect them onto enemies and M2 to get them to come back to you

[gilded beacon]

Like Weaver Song but you can control them?

[pine plume]

Like every infected boss in the game is a zombie

[gilded beacon]

Not all, but yeah basically

[sinful nimbus]

You get it

[pine plume]

It does?

[gilded beacon]

That would be great for Fog Canyon, so they attacking the bomb jellies

[gilded beacon]

Yeah, is not super useful but it does that

A little secret effect

[polar latch]

very true! antlions are so cool, I love those little guys

[pine plume]

Wouldve been nice to know when I tried to leave and got absolutely cooked 😭

[gilded beacon]

The nearest bench is on the exit of the hive tho

[pine plume]

Oh right

[gilded beacon]

There's lots of bugs/ crawly thingies that would fit perfectly into HK

I'm actually surprised by how little "common" bugs there are

[polar latch]

true tbh

[gilded beacon]

Not many ladybugs or wasps really

[pseudo geyser]

imagine a termite mound area

[gilded beacon]

The City of Tears is actually based on how termites build their mounds

That's why is so vertical with lots of openings

[pseudo geyser]

Oooh that's interesting. I wonder if they'll pull inspiration from ant colonies for Silksong

[gilded beacon]

The Hunter's March (the ant area) is mostly a straight forward path, it doesn't have many links to other areas I fear

[pine plume]

What is this map from

[gilded beacon]

But we'll probably find ants outside the Hunter's March

[gilded beacon]

Release date trailer

[pine plume]

Ah

[gilded beacon]

Someone collaged all the pics to make a full image

[pine plume]

Ook

[gilded beacon]

Here is the full map

[pine plume]

Woah

Looks like there's more too

[gilded beacon]

That's approximately a third of it

[pine plume]

WHAT

[gilded beacon]

There are 10 areas in the image

[gilded beacon]

Is based on the HK when they sow the map we see a third of Hallownest map, still speculation tho

[pine plume]

Ok

[gilded beacon]

But there are areas that we've seen on trailers and doesn't appear and areas that we've never seen and appear

So you get an idea

[quartz salmon]

there are several big areas missing from it, like the coral forest, the rest of greymoor or the citadel, for example

it seems to be really big

[gilded beacon]

It will be

[pine plume]

Yea the forest of bone too I think

[quartz salmon]

nah thats probably an early name for the marrow

[nova bluff]

theres so much space around it, i feel like its gonna have some rooms hidden not on this map

[gilded beacon]

Nope that was actually called "The Marrow" forest of bones was a name given by the community

[pine plume]

Oh ok

[gilded beacon]

Probably they are just trying to not spoil some secret rooms of PoI

We don't even know if Moss Grotto is the bottom of Pharloom or if there's more under it

[real crater]

Probably not considering we don't see any routes on the map

[nova bluff]

✨ hidden rooms and hallways✨

[gilded beacon]

We have a sealed door at the bottom of Deep Docks which is drawn in the map

[nova bluff]

theres that weird door looking thing in the farthest left of moss grotto already

[gilded beacon]

Perfectly we could open it later

[gilded beacon]

That's a weave chamber, has been there since the first demo, we still don't know what it's behind

There was another one in the left but it has been sealed behind a wall

[nova bluff]

its probably enterable in the full game? i would assume

[gilded beacon]

I probably is, we'll have to open it later to get some ability or smth

It might also work as a shortcut connecting different areas

[urban sphinx]

im excited to go here bc i think this is where hornet fell in the intro... i wanna go beyond

[quartz salmon]

or you get an ability to open the door and inside is a late game area, maybe that clover filled place

[pseudo geyser]

wonder what the full name of this is too. Either [X] Highways or [X] Pathways merhaps

[nova bluff]

i would think it would connect somehow to deep docks
that open spot below the marrow looks like its begging for a new area

[nova bluff]

waterways 2 electric boogaloo

[gilded beacon]

Clover Grove is at the left of Moss Grotto

[pseudo geyser]

i refuse to go back to those evil waterways 😭

[quartz salmon]

how can we be so sure

[gilded beacon]

The flukes are waiting for you

[nova bluff]

i really wonder whats to the left of here

[gilded beacon]

I gonna assume that it's the dessert

[nova bluff]

cause i feel like thats where hornet is being taken from
so hallownest must be that direction?

[quartz salmon]

the edge of pharloom most likely, entrance to the wasteland

[tawdry flare]

I Do Not Think Hallownest is That Close

[gilded beacon]

The desert

[urban sphinx]

i really hope we'll be able to go back to hallownest. it would be "cool"

[nova bluff]

well yea im not expecting it to be in the game, but its from that direction

[nova bluff]

i feel like it would feel quite small and compact with hornets move set

[pseudo geyser]

They were passing through those fields and a massive gate in the opening cutscene. Probably just the howling cliffs of Pharloom. After that they would have gone into Shellwood.

not sure where they would have dropped her off though

[urban sphinx]

just have the compact areas blocked off by void

[runic musk]

Unless they make Hallownest larger the entire map will be compact it wasnt designed around Hornets speed

[pseudo geyser]

I personally doubt anything like Hallownest will be appearing. The most that is possible is probably a rare easter egg situation like in Godhome where you can encounter that random stormland.

[nova bluff]

i feel like they were prbly taking her to the gilded city?

[pseudo geyser]

Yea that's my guess too. I can't see any paths upward from Shellwood/Bellhart/Greymoor based on that map we have though. So I'm wondering if there is an elevator we haven't seen yet visually on a map.

[gilded beacon]

I'd like more if Silksong is it's own game outside HK, TC already said that they want to make it accesible to new players so I don't expect many callbacks

[nova bluff]

the top of the bellheart area is looking kinda sus to me tbh
its so square with a lot of open space above it

[gilded beacon]

Maybe the City will grow vertically?

That's my guess

[pseudo geyser]

True, it would seem quite impractical to have only one way up in one corner of the Kingdom. (like a random ascension to the Gilded Cities/Citadel after Craw Lake).

[gilded beacon]

In the new trailers Bellhart looksore delapitated and sad, maybe as we play it gets new people and businesses like with Dirt Mouth

[pseudo geyser]

I think Bone Bottom and Bellhart and the other towns will have that dynamic growth/upgrade element as we complete the quests for them.

[gilded beacon]

Seems likely, in the new trailer we see a bug building a Quest board in Bone Bottom

[quartz salmon]

yes, they said they would do a lot more of that idea from the first game

[pseudo geyser]

Also Pharloom may need to carefully moderate who comes up/down each section - like border control. Perhaps if the Ant's are only a vassal/colony of Pharloom and aren't permitted in the higher sections of the Kingdom than they have to put in more precautions.

[pseudo geyser]

I really like seeing all the people in Dirtmouth coming in and lighting things up. Strange since it's just a visual ting but its nice to see tangible impacts based off of actions. So thats exciting

[gilded beacon]

There seems that Pharloom is so big that might have more kingdoms/civilizations within itself, so it's likely

[nova bluff]

speciesism in my bug game

[pseudo geyser]

Caste System

[gilded beacon]

The PK would totally do that imo

To be fair in the City of Tears there was a big wealth division

[pseudo geyser]

Yea, the Ants/Coral people might be Pharloom colonies as opposed to fully integrated. Hornet gotta become a guerrilla warfare freedom fighter

[quartz salmon]

the word caste has been used a bunch already in silksong material

maybe there is a caste system

[gilded beacon]

Knowing the religious implications of SS it's possible

[nova bluff]

no dont abbreviate silksong

[gilded beacon]

Mb

[quartz salmon]

ive been thinking that for 7 years

[pseudo geyser]

Since the map's been organised into horizontal layers, that's probably the indication of the classes

Scholars/Holy People/Musicians. (Citadal)
Rich Aristocrats. (Gilded Cities)
Silk Production People. (Clocktower)
Warriors/Colonies/Hard Labourers (Deep Docks/Greymoor)
Mindless bugs/Untamed creatures. (Moss Grotto/Far Fields)

[gilded beacon]

Also there's lots of pilgrims going towards the citadel, probably most of them are denied the entry

[quartz salmon]

it its probably inteligently designed by team cherry to become more wealthy the higher you go

[quartz salmon]

killed on sight probably, by Lace, Phantom, The Last Judge, who knows

[gilded beacon]

My HC is that the Last Judge is the one who decides if you enter or not

[quartz salmon]

i think its a double meaning
hes the last one to judge your skill before you are allowed to enter the citadel
and he is the last of his kind/profession

[pseudo geyser]

Sherma's gonna either be killed or betray Hornet if you don't get enough dating simulator hearts.

[gilded beacon]

Sherma is actually the mastermind behind all

[pseudo geyser]

Imagine they actually add dating sim features / fishing minigames that r/Silksong has been memeing on

[gilded beacon]

Sherma is the PK second reincarnation, who has come to Pharloom to conquer it /j

[nova bluff]

i genuinely could see fishing, dead ass

[quartz salmon]

theres gotta be a spearfishing section

[pseudo geyser]

Hades has it so why not hahaha

its gonna be a quest or something if there is. One of those Gather quests

[gilded beacon]

Now the real question is:
What's the best fishing spot in Pharloom!??

[nova bluff]

its gotta be craw lake

[pseudo geyser]

Craw Lake meta 100% fishing speedrun

[gilded beacon]

Either that, Coral Reef or Barnacle Bay

Maybe the swamp under the citadel too

[pseudo geyser]

Shawfish Stew

[gilded beacon]

That's what the Moss Druid is cooking

[pseudo geyser]

Quick time event cooking with the Moss Druid

[nova bluff]

oh shit you right
that swamp area in the trailer prbly would be fire for fishing

[lapis creek]

craw lake is probably part of greymoor

[gilded beacon]

Cooking Mama style

[lapis creek]

arent the birds called crawbugs

[quartz salmon]

yes

[gilded beacon]

I also think that is the bird part, but if people want to say that is crab area I won't complain

[pseudo geyser]

hold a baby and stir the pot simultaneously lmao

[gilded beacon]

Lots of competition tho

[gilded beacon]

One of Moss Mother's babies

[pseudo geyser]

those things look spiky

[nova bluff]

gonna have to throw hands with the water bug

[gilded beacon]

You remove the spikes and moss, the cut it in slices and throw it to the pot, medium heat if you like it more juicy

[gilded beacon]

But it will be worth it

[quartz salmon]

this reminded me of the animation where they cook one of the starter pokemon like its a 5 star meal

[pseudo geyser]

OH i love those

[terse wadi]

What's up SS-lore

[gilded beacon]

I'm just a mere connoisseur in search of Pharlooms greatest delicacies~

[terse wadi]

Fleas?

[gilded beacon]

Close! Moss Mother's babies

[terse wadi]

I prefer the eggs

[quartz salmon]

like Dungeon Meshi

[opal beacon]

I wonder, how he's affected silksong's lore? Maybe he's slapped final boss with his ass. Jokes aside, he's probably a candle maker

[pseudo geyser]

discussions of fishing and cooking minigames that are vital to the lore are occurring.

[gilded beacon]

True! They are great for Omelettes or as I call them Bugmelettes

[terse wadi]

If he makes candles out of his extra ass fat is this the equivilant to gamer girl bathwater?

[real crater]

The spoon he hold looks like a classic stew spoon

Plss don't put that theory in the wild I beg u

[nova bluff]

STEW = COOKING = FISHING MINIGAME

[real crater]

That's honestly worse than hornet is void or phantom is kitsune theory

[terse wadi]

I hope there's a sprite of Hornet holding her catch

[opal beacon]

Cloak, not catch

[terse wadi]

We're talking about fising

[real crater]

I mean there is one

[gilded beacon]

Animal Crossing style, where she holds a big ass shark

[pseudo geyser]

i want Ass Jim to be important to the lore but I fear he's gonna just be a random enemy. Makes candles for prayers, and is fat and dies

[real crater]

Like those tinder bios?

[terse wadi]

He might be a vender nopc idk

[opal beacon]

This dude have a fishing rod 😱 fishing in Silksong

[terse wadi]

huh

[real crater]

No he's a enemy I'm pretty sure we named him ass jim cause memes

[terse wadi]

That's a violin bow

[opal beacon]

Candles seems to be important

[real crater]

If that's the bow where's the violin

[nova bluff]

spear for spear fishing

[gilded beacon]

They're some spiders who live underwater and eat small fishes

[opal beacon]

You acquiring || reaper crest || in here

[terse wadi]

TLOZ lookin aah

[gilded beacon]

It's more of an harpoon, but I see your point

[real crater]

I think the candles are there for pure aesthetic they don't really fit the whole silk and song vibe

[opal beacon]

Its a javelin, confirmed

[nova bluff]

gotta have mood lighting when you silk your song??

[terse wadi]

What is a Harpoon but an underwater spear

[gilded beacon]

Pointy throw able stick

[opal beacon]

Shrue

[gilded beacon]

Trobbio's red lighting

[real crater]

Harpoon is more longer and has deeper penetration it's often used for big maritime hunting

[opal beacon]

Trobbio is cool. Butterflies are cool

[real crater]

I hope the fact that lace conducts butterfly is why hornet was freed

[opal beacon]

The only butterfly we have seen in HK is Marissa

[terse wadi]

Wow, trying to out tism me I see

[gilded beacon]

Hell yeah

[opal beacon]

Its her butterfly

[real crater]

I can't for i am a mere lord compared to his kingship

[opal beacon]

So yeah

[opal beacon]

Butterflies are cool

[pseudo geyser]

I think she's trying to kill Hornet so the Citadel can't have her power for themselves

[gilded beacon]

Tism battle

[real crater]

Why do u think that could u elaborate

[gilded beacon]

She isn't working for the citadel, nor with Hornet

[opal beacon]

We all know Silksong's lore will be crazier than the HK's lore, like void and delicate flowers in Silksong is crazy, maybe we'll even see a void and delicate flowers confrontation

[pseudo geyser]

If Lace was working for Pharloom, and following the theory of her controlling the Butterflies, she would have let them just take her and not break the seal around the cage

[gilded beacon]

I kinda see their point

[quartz salmon]

from her description on steam, which is shorter than anyone elses it seems that shes just kinda unhinged and wants to fence off anyone strong looking

but it does seem intentionally vague

[real crater]

But couldn't she also have them take hornet a bit further and then free her to kill her when she is weaker and not give her time to recover

[gilded beacon]

Probably is like that to avoid spoilers

[opal beacon]

TC called Lace a "maniac"

[opal beacon]

She's probably evil

[gilded beacon]

Maybe the idea was for her to die in the fall?

[real crater]

A half god dies to a fall is ludicrous

[pseudo geyser]

Maybe the areas ahead are too secure for her to get in and kill her, not sure

[real crater]

U can be a maniac and not be evil

[quartz salmon]

bugs dont die from falling in general

[opal beacon]

But HORNET did HADIDA and all fall

[real crater]

Hmm lace is said to be a very good fighter

[gilded beacon]

Maybe Lace didn't know that she was a demigod

[runic musk]

Tbf even if Hornet didnt die from the fall impact there was still a cage that probably could've collapse

[real crater]

Then why kill her if she wanted to disrupt citadels plan she must have gotten a basic knowledge of her target

[pseudo geyser]

I personally believe Lace and Phantom are working together to kill Hornet and wipe out the Pale King's bloodline. I think Phantom as a wyrm/wyrmkin attempting to be the only one left

[gilded beacon]

Idk man ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

[opal beacon]

How Hornet didn't die

[real crater]

Lol I made someone give up gonna ss that real quick

[spark valve]

she doesn't necessarily know she'll be weakened, or that hornet would break the bridge that way when her powers come back

[opal beacon]

Maybe he's a blackwyrm

[gilded beacon]

I suppose that Lace is just making anything to bother the citadel? Idk

[nova bluff]

she can survive terminal velocity like a squirrel

[real crater]

My point is not that she will be weak why give her time to go away why not just kill her when u know where she is

[spark valve]

read every part of my message the second one accounts for that

[gilded beacon]

She sounds surprised by the silk threads, even if she did it purposely, what was the plan? Break the bridge and fall with them to a bottomless pit??

[spark valve]

the seal breaks and then hornet moves very far very fast in a plausibly unintended and unexpected manner

[real crater]

The assumption was that lace broke the bridge not hornet so that's mb

[spark valve]

we see what breaks the bridge it's hornet's powers violently returning

[pseudo geyser]

Lace broke the seal allowing Hornet to break the bridge

[spark valve]

but not necessarily intending for her to do that

[real crater]

I still believe that lace was a pk plant in pharloom and saved hornet and will eventually help her from the shadows

[opal beacon]

Its so cloudy now, wait cloud in a background, clouds in Silksong???

[spark valve]

I Think That Is Unlikely Given The Attempt To Kill Her

[terse wadi]

That's fog I believe

[opal beacon]

And here's some white particles flying

[spark valve]

clouds and fog aren't like different things

[real crater]

We could be on the surface in silksong would be cool ngl || also lace could be just pretending to kill hornet to keep up apperances

[opal beacon]

Wait

[gilded beacon]

Fog or dust probably

[opal beacon]

White particles, where else we have seen them?

[real crater]

God a pale being in pharloom???

[opal beacon]

Here

[spark valve]

white particles are very common

[opal beacon]

Maybe enclave town and this area are connected

[real crater]

Ain't that the peak maybe it's just them falling down

[opal beacon]

Maybe, I'm wonder why it's called peak

[real crater]

Could be a cool way to come back to enclave from another area that's not fast travel

[real crater]

Could be on the literal peak of pharloom

[quartz salmon]

It's probably near the peak of the kingdom

[opal beacon]

But we always fought about the citadel

[quartz salmon]

Yeah there could be 2 areas up high

[opal beacon]

Its kinda lame that Bonebottom is the main hub of the game and not Bellhart

[real crater]

Maybe the spiritual peak or they just really liked the area and 20's slang

[quartz salmon]

That's not true there's multiple hubs

[real crater]

Let tc cook maybe bonebottom could be peak

[opal beacon]

But TC said Bonebottom is the MAIN hub

There's multiple towns, but Bonebottom is the main

[real crater]

I hope we could get some npcs to move between hubs

[pseudo geyser]

Sherma will move around I think

[real crater]

I meant like hub npcs think merchants and like

[opal beacon]

We can see her both in the Bellhart and Enclave

Just sitting and chilling

Towns in the revealed map part : || Bonebottom, Piligrim's Rest, Halfway Home, Craw Lake, Bellhart ||

[gilded beacon]

I like to think that the final boss would take place in the surface

[real crater]

Pretty sure it's in the citadel

[gilded beacon]

This pic is called 09_peak in metadata

[opal beacon]

I think Silksong lore is about manipulations, manipulations, manipulations

[real crater]

But a secret final boss on the surface sounds cool maybe a wyrm that survived

[opal beacon]

I know

[real crater]

I think a couple more manipulation

[spark valve]

that would be kinda lame

[real crater]

I mean all I could think of that would be on the surface

[opal beacon]

Manipulation over manipulation, like the puppeteer controlling other puppeteers, that's sounds crazy

[quartz salmon]

Wyrms don't really survive, they die a lot, their purpose is to create kingdoms and then change form just like how the pale king did

[pseudo geyser]

This is Craw Lake probably

[real crater]

Arranged in a pyramid shaped hierarchy heyyy wait a second

[opal beacon]

No, craw lake doesn't have a bench on the map

[real crater]

Might be in greymoore

[opal beacon]

And this shit is called "bay" in the metadata

[real crater]

I wonder what sort of side areas we will have

[opal beacon]

All known Silksong areas :||
All known area in Silksong with confirmed names and seen on the map:

1. Moss Grotto
2. The Marrow
3. Deep Docks
4. Hunter's March
5. Far Fields
6. Greymoor
7. Shellwood
8. Stepps ( left upper corner on the map).

All areas with confirmed names what doesn't seen on the map :
9. Coral Gorge
10. Cogworks
11. Song City
12. Shining Citadel.
13. Catacombs

All areas without confirmed names, what can be seen of the trailers and screenshots :
14. Cold Mold area
15. Dark watery area called "bay" in the trailer
16. Dark green cryptic area
17. Vault
18. Clover area (which can be partially seen in the left)
19. Red spikes area

I think they only showed 1/3 of the map||

Hehehehehe

[real crater]

I meant the ones we don't know about

Also u reallllllly love using this copy paste

[opal beacon]

Maybe two or three, since 19 is already a lot

Especially with quests

[real crater]

Or silksong could have morrowind level of maps if u get the reference

[viscid ridge]

Yello people 👋

[opal beacon]

Ofc

[terse wadi]

I just realized the cast of VA's is much larger in SS

[real crater]

Must have taken a lot of work

[opal beacon]

Programmer features

[opal beacon]

Two minutes

One actually

[real crater]

For the research??????

[opal beacon]

No, type this message

Research is another minute

[real crater]

Yeah I was like one minute of research is insane did u use chatgpt or smth

[viscid ridge]

I was suprised to see how many different areas there were, it seems like they made a lot of subdevisions of every area of the map

[opal beacon]

Brain :/

[real crater]

That's a fast ass brain

[viscid ridge]

Chatgpt aint smart enough for hollow knight stuff 🤣

[real crater]

U should start a lore channel

[opal beacon]

On the map areas doesn't have any sub areas, only towns

[gilded beacon]

Where is the steps??

[real crater]

It's mentioned (far left of the map)

[opal beacon]

It's there

[quartz salmon]

Probably meant to say "ways"

[gilded beacon]

Also which one is the 16? There's lots of dark green areas

[viscid ridge]

Also i would like to add you are missing Craw lake which we saw in the trailer

[terse wadi]

That's a town

[opal beacon]

Its not craw lake, its called "bay", and I'm added this as dark watery area

[gilded beacon]

There's also Bellhart

[viscid ridge]

Is it bay? I remember it being called lake

[opal beacon]

Its town, not entire area, because not all letters are capital

[real crater]

I thinks that's the transition from clover to greymoore

[terse wadi]

It def said craw lake in the trailer

[gilded beacon]

I think that that's Shellwood

[opal beacon]

No, its called "bay" in metadata

[runic musk]

Really interested in seeing more of that enemy stuck on the roof

[real crater]

We have another ss of that enemy with another enemy

[opal beacon]

This is Shellwood

[viscid ridge]

Here it says lake if im not wrong, unless this is edited

[opal beacon]

Clover is connected to moss grotto from left, not to Greymoor

[opal beacon]

Craw lake is a town of Greymoor

[pseudo geyser]

yea Shellwood is the staligtite one (this has the Shellwood name in metadata, also has bellhart to the right you can see)

[viscid ridge]

I can see that being the case maybe, but the whole area has its own color so idk

[gilded beacon]

Nope, the second pic is from the Swamp below the citadel, likely the white flower pic is near Seth's fight, which also takes place in the base of the citadel

[opal beacon]

No, its just shadowed by corners

[viscid ridge]

Ok ill take you at your word 😅

[opal beacon]

The second pic is called "Shellwood in metadata"

[gilded beacon]

Ok, that's my bad

[viscid ridge]

But why would a lake and bay be in the same area?

[opal beacon]

They're not

Bay is area/town we haven't seen on the map

Craw lake is a town of Greymoor

[pseudo geyser]

This would be Greymoor judging off of Bellhart to the left

[opal beacon]

Yes

[gilded beacon]

It's grey, its a moor...
All checks out

[viscid ridge]

Yeah, bellhart is so good at letting us locate the directions of the areas

[opal beacon]

Bellhart is either a part of Greymoor, or Shellwood

[gilded beacon]

It's it's own area

[opal beacon]

No, because not all letters are capital

[viscid ridge]

Sorry if im sounding annoying but where did you get the information about craw bay being a town we haven't seen yet

[opal beacon]

It looks like a town, surrounded by lake

[viscid ridge]

Is it metadata or a screenshot or something id like to see it maybe 🥺

[gilded beacon]

It's mainly because it has its own color

[quartz salmon]

It has its own colour on the map which means it's a completely standalone place with a different aesthetic, and the normal capitalisation indicates that a town is there

[viscid ridge]

Oh, but that says nothing about bay?

[pseudo geyser]

I think Bellhart is a Hive situation where it's within Kingdom's Edge

And Bellhart is inside Shellwood

[opal beacon]

Bay have a bench, while crap lake doesn't have a bench on the map

[opal beacon]

No, its Greymoor, its just shadowed by corners

[gilded beacon]

I like this option most

[viscid ridge]

But why is there no name on the map for the town then?

[opal beacon]

There is, craw lake

[opal beacon]

Its just shadowed

[viscid ridge]

Oh oh wait i was just misunderstanding

[opal beacon]

Sorry for stiffness

[steel slate]

Crazy to think there’s probably more areas we haven’t even remotely seen yet

The ones we know of are already a lot

[opal beacon]

Oops, my bad, my English bad

[lusty sorrel]

Probably it is at least twice as size compared to the one we saw in the trailer

[opal beacon]

Or was i right

I think Pharloom is 1.5x by size

[steel slate]

Okay twice the size is a bit wild

[lusty sorrel]

You mean contrast?

[opal beacon]

Yeah

[quartz salmon]

i was talking about Bellhart

[opal beacon]

No, like stuffing or something, i forgot a word

[steel slate]

SS already being bigger than full game HK is already pretty massive

[opal beacon]

Oh, I'm stupid, sorry

[quartz salmon]

its all good

[lusty sorrel]

Not if you think how much mobility hornet has compared to the knight

[opal beacon]

But we already have quests

[opal beacon]

Quests with own unexpected twists

Two times sized map is crazy

[lusty sorrel]

Yea obviously there is more than twice as much content to play around

[opal beacon]

But you know what, I'm building up high expectations about one thing : the lore

[gilded beacon]

There's even more mobility options outside of Hornet's own abilities

[opal beacon]

I think the lore wiil be insane

[gilded beacon]

It will

[lusty sorrel]

yes the lore will be legendary

[edgy nebula]

lore will be great

[lusty sorrel]

Especially the void

[midnight zinc]

I can’t imagine they don’t put even more effort into it than HK considering how they couldn’t have known how much the community would be obsessed with it

[edgy nebula]

sharpe wont be void and the steel faction will be the best hk faction ever

[lusty sorrel]

I am most curious about the bbeg tho

[steel slate]

There’s also gonna be about as many bosses as full HK

[gilded beacon]

Hopefully a little more specific

[lusty sorrel]

With dlcs therell be even more

[opal beacon]

There's even a chase sequence from steel assassins in coral gorge

[steel slate]

And that’s (hopefully) without anything like dream warriors and fluke

[lusty sorrel]

Maybe itll get more dlcs than hollow knight who knows?

[gilded beacon]

And lots of new enemies

[quartz salmon]

if steel assasin sharpe is related to steel soul jinn, which they are, then void must be involved, in some form

[edgy nebula]

steel soul jinn isnt related to void at all

[opal beacon]

I like this dude, he's likely endgame boss

[pseudo geyser]

DLC confirmed, they want to add lots more stuff so that's gonna be fun. Wonder how they'll justify new things just appearing in the lore.

[lusty sorrel]

Ngl sharpie feels like more cooller version of tiso

[gilded beacon]

I don't care if there's void, but if there is, I would love if it wasn't that ambiguous

[quartz salmon]

but they are, their "masters" are at the least

[opal beacon]

He's also attacking with his nose

[lapis creek]

i think we just take the most recent version of the game to be canon at any given time

[steel slate]

How many bosses have we seen so far?

[gilded beacon]

Sharpe wouldn't die to Mawlek

[edgy nebula]

they arent, at most they say the knight becomes like their masters when getting voidheart, likely referring to the knight becoming more godly and being able to control

[opal beacon]

I can show a list

[gilded beacon]

Sure

[quartz salmon]

around 19 i believe? of the 40 +

[steel slate]

Oh wtf

[lusty sorrel]

I had nightmares about mawlek what are you talking ablut

In my first playthrough

[opal beacon]

Here's a list of all revealed bosses : || Moss Mother, Bell Beast, Lace, Song Golem, Ass Jim, Skull King, Hunter's Queen Carmellita, Seth, Coral King, Moorwing, The Last Judge, Clocktower bosses, Frog boss, Trobbio, Two red drills boss, Big Claw boss on ceiling, Weaver Dude, Sharpe, and Phantom||

[steel slate]

Team Cherry better give us More Massive Moss Charger

[lusty sorrel]

now it is much much easier

[gentle aspen]

They don’t say that

[lusty sorrel]

I am most curious about ||trobbio||

[gilded beacon]

We gotta make our own boss names for some of these

[random harbor]

Jinn - General - Listening after acquiring Void Heart

This It... A rare It. Has not seen many, so vulnerable, but triumphant. Makes Jinn feel a thing... surprise?
Jinn misjudged... The It is not inferior. Perhaps... different? Different to Jinn. More complete? Different... like masters?

@kingoclowns used /npcs merchants name: Jinn category: General dialogue: Listening after acquiring Void Heart

[steel slate]

||Isn’t there 2 Lace fights too?||

[lusty sorrel]

There should be

[opal beacon]

Yes, but i do not count refightings

[real crater]

Not a different boss

[lusty sorrel]

Since she is kinda like hornet

[steel slate]

Fair

[pseudo geyser]

I think it'd be cool to see a dynamic sort of justification that Pharloom has ongoing contruction projects and other sorts of things like that. Maybe even stuff where outside Kingdoms get involved which leads to different stuff

[steel slate]

I figured refights would count towards the 40+ if it works like Hornet Protector and Sentinel

[lusty sorrel]

Ill just watch ||Lace|| dlc becoming to a brand new game

[quartz salmon]

i dont know what else you could interpret this as

[spark valve]

read it just actually read it

[lusty sorrel]

Next hk game if there is one will probably go up from the top of the ground

[gilded beacon]

They have another kingdoms embassies kinda thing

[lusty sorrel]

Like trees as such

[gilded beacon]

You go side ways in a big hallway

[pseudo geyser]

geopolitical tensions strategy game DLC

[lusty sorrel]

HoI4

HoI for hoIIow knight

[pseudo geyser]

The term HOI4 gives me palpitations

[quartz salmon]

after gaining the void heart, which allows the knight to have control over the void she says thaty it is more whole, not weak, not like her, but like her masters

im openminded just tell me what you disagree with here

[steel slate]

I’m really curious what collectables we’ll see

[spark valve]

in what way she says in what way it's different

[gilded beacon]

Choose your Leader!:

Pale King
Unn
Herra
Vespa
Carmelita
Black Wyrm

[spark valve]

different in that..... it is....

[pseudo geyser]

It would actually be cool to see complex stuff around different Kingdom's interacting. Good worldbuilding opportnity.

[gentle aspen]

did she ever say anything about void? No. She just notes how the Knight isn’t inferior, more complete, more like the masters.

[pseudo geyser]

I'd main Vespa

[gentle aspen]

that doesn’t actually imply anything about void

[lusty sorrel]

I am curious about some lore in the start of the game hollow knight on kings pass some sign says hallownest is the last standing kingdom what about that?

[quartz salmon]

after you get the void heart

[lusty sorrel]

Is pale king just deluisonal

[spark valve]

which does what what does void heart do

[lapis creek]

and prove that you are complete

[gentle aspen]

yes, because we’re more complete

you cannot just say “oh its void because its void heart” read the dialogue

[spark valve]

what does gaining that much power make the knight

[gentle aspen]

if anything it might imply her creators are higher beings

not void

[lapis creek]

the void heart isnt just about void thats the most surface level possible interpretation sure but it's supposed to be a big defining moment for the knight's character

[gentle aspen]

void heart is also about accepting all facets of themself remembering the past uniting a fragmented whole yada yada boiling it down to “jinn is talking about void” when she pretty clearly isn’t is strange

[spark valve]

(if she was talking about void she could say it before void heart nothing has changed in that respect)

[gilded beacon]

Me too ngl she would have something like less chance of riots bonus but (HiveMind)
But worse attack units kinda thing

[gentle aspen]

it’s possible that she is referring to void despite all this but as of right now she isn’t

[spark valve]

both she and jiji are talking about its emotional journey (perhaps not diegetically) and its ascent to godhood NOT void

[midnight reef]

yes

[lapis creek]

doesnt she say something about a long shadow

[steel slate]

Evidently yes

[gentle aspen]

your mom is a long shadow

[gentle aspen]

That was the plan

[midnight reef]

The Pale King assumed that Hallownest would last eternally, clearly he was wrong

[gentle aspen]

clearly it did not work out

[lapis creek]

like at the beginning when you meet her

[spark valve]

she does

[midnight reef]

I mean, he wasnt entirely wrong
Just it didnt last in the state he probably wanted

[steel slate]

That actually makes more sense

[midnight reef]

it lasted quite a bit as a rotting corpse

[lusty sorrel]

Maybe farloom civilization is created long after hallownest

[spark valve]

Observed... Small. Dull. No Soul. Long shadow... It is blank, but brave...
this evaluation is obviously false in a few ways but that's just the first impression

[opal beacon]

Pale King's foresight worked as shit

[pseudo geyser]

its just his Propaganda campaign. He has a guy literally working to spy on people + created a cult of personality around his image. Everything those "Higher Being" tablets say is unreliable

[midnight reef]

Yeah the PKs foresight was just bad

[gentle aspen]

She probably assumed blank because (assumedly) tk doesn’t do facial expressions

[midnight reef]

I think he did have some minor ability to see into the future, but it clearly wasnt very clear

[spark valve]

yeah it's just a superficial assessment

he had foresight foresight being bad or not working is emphatically not why anything happened

[lusty sorrel]

If pale king was a worse father there wouldnt be any problem with the seal

[gentle aspen]

only thing we know about his foresight is that blah blah demise unavoidable and he had it

Nothing about the quality

[gentle aspen]

Well no

The seal would still be shit

Its proof not the cause

[midnight reef]

No, the vessels were inherently flawed

Nothing about how he raised the THK would've changed its eventual failure

[lusty sorrel]

but tk is the perfect seal?

[gentle aspen]

No

[midnight reef]

Nope
If anything its far worse

[gentle aspen]

Tk isn’t pure either

[opal beacon]

I think not, because pure vessel can't draw a fucking map

[lusty sorrel]

So dream no more is the best ending after all

[midnight reef]

The Knight cares, clearly, for those around it, doing the flower quest, saving Cloth, saving Bretta

[opal beacon]

Yes

[midnight reef]

Which is an avenue for the Radience

[opal beacon]

But he's definitely more pure than the others

[gentle aspen]

To be fair cloth is kinda incidental

[lusty sorrel]

Damn I love how tc puts so much thought into the lore

[sage flame]

I see the Knight as just a mindless thing that follows tasks

[midnight reef]

Oh, and Zote

[gentle aspen]

they clearly don’t

[spark valve]

dream no more being the 'best' ending is pretty clear and it would basically be character assassination for hornet if she thought tk was pure and still told it it should fight radiance

[gentle aspen]

Not a thing

[opal beacon]

When Cloth dies, he just watching coldly

[midnight reef]

The fuck are they going to be able to do?

[lusty sorrel]

The knight doesn’t care he is just a mission man

[midnight reef]

Cloth got stabbed, she was toast

[lapis creek]

i do also like her use of the word 'prolong'

[spark valve]

that too

[steel slate]

Expressionless ≠ Emotionless

[lapis creek]

someone brought up that it might be better to kill radiance not because it's more likely to work but because tk can still technically be destroyed from the outside

[opal beacon]

I wonder, why steel assassins are hunting for Hornet

[gentle aspen]

I mean
By whom

[lapis creek]

and killing radiance is more decisive in the sense that no magic people can show up and free the radiance

[gentle aspen]

they were hired

Probably

[lapis creek]

idk thats the thing if the knight can defeat the radiance in single combat then who stands a chance

[opal beacon]

Did she killed Steel Soul Jin or something?

[opal beacon]

Yeah, that makes sense

[midnight reef]

flattening the knight down into "just mission orientated" really is just... I dont know if its just annoyance on my end or if my feelings of it weakening DNM have any basis

[gentle aspen]

She wouldn’t be able to

Jinn seems impervious to all threats physical and magical

[opal beacon]

Oh, ok

[spark valve]

it's a lack of media literacy since that idea is like specifically broken down over the course of the game

[midnight reef]

it really feels like it'd weaken every ending

The Hollow Knight is a "bad" ending because it'd never last, the Knight would fail just the same after some time

[spark valve]

I don't really think it could be clearer that the knight is its own agent especially given any of hornet's dialogue past greenpath

[gentle aspen]

I wouldn’t say that

[opal beacon]

I think many things in Pharloom will try to kill Hornet

[midnight reef]

Then why capture her?

[gentle aspen]

People just take what is said at face value and tk doesn’t really emote

[midnight reef]

They clearly want her alive, if they wanted her dead it'd be easier to kill her in the cage

[gentle aspen]

I mean there’re different factions at play we see

And there’s a curse going around many things seem to want to hurt Hornet

[midnight reef]

Some of the factions do want Hornet dead, but it doesnt seem like whoever decided to capture her wanted that

[pseudo geyser]

Also wondering why Bellhart's and all the other town's residents don't attack Hornet.

[gentle aspen]

They never said that those who captured her wanted that

[midnight reef]

Yeah

[gentle aspen]

and there comes a point where you have to cut your losses I feel Hornet’s gonna ve doing a lotta damage

[spark valve]

If, knowing that truth, you'd still attempt a role in Hallownest's perpetuation, seek the Grave in Ash and the mark it would grant to one like you.

Show me you can accept this Kingdom's past and claim responsibility for its future

A difficult journey you would face, but a choice it can create. Prolong our world's stasis or face the heart of its infection.

I'd urge you to take that harder path, but what end may come, the decision rests with you.

I'm impressed little ghost. You've burdened yourself with the fate of this world, yet you still stand strong.

To break the Dreamer's seals would alone be considered an impossible task, but to accept that void inside yourself, that casts you as something rather exceptional.

Ghost of Hallownest, you possess the strength to enact an end of your choosing. Would you supplant our birth-cursed sibling, or would you transcend it?
but like it is said at face value repeatedly (and this is just the one npc)

[midnight reef]

we'll see soon enough, and we do know that part of Hornets motivation to climb Pharloom to the citidel is to find out why the fuck they captured her

[spark valve]

that seems like the entire motivation in the beginning but I expect that to change over time

[gentle aspen]

Imagine hornet got captured as a bride

[midnight reef]

lol

[gentle aspen]

I mean shi her cage was pretty fancy

[midnight reef]

I mean, to be entirely fair, she is half wyrm, and demonstrates a decent ability for spellcasting

[viscid ridge]

Hornet is too cool for anyone 🤣

[pseudo geyser]

Weaver eugenic breeding programme would be insane

[midnight reef]

Not to the level of the Knight, but still pretty decent

[opal beacon]

Hornet description in SteamDB : "Then I shall seek their Citadel. If these veiled bugs would go to such lengths to bring me here, I intend to find out why."

[midnight reef]

that seems like her interaction with the churchmaster, to be honset

[opal beacon]

You mean church keeper?

[midnight reef]

eh, probably

I dont remember all the names, too many already

why are dumbasses thinking that the lore channel is the meme channel?

[viscid ridge]

I wanna know what that lady's deal is, they are always keeping her out of sight

Dw bro, i saw that silktouch meme, it was hilarious ❤️

[midnight reef]

Shes only just out've sight when you first meet her

and are they a her? IDK if shes gotten gendered

entirely possible that I missed that

[opal beacon]

She's teaching Hornet to use needle as needolin

[viscid ridge]

Well she looks like an old lady to me so im asuming shes an old lady

[opal beacon]

Its not like dream nail in midgame

[midnight reef]

they are not gendered, as far as it seems

[viscid ridge]

Yeah its strange, i always think of the needolin as a dreamnail equivalent, but judjing by the trailers we get it right off the bat

[opal beacon]

We know that Seth is controlled by mysterious power known as "The Voice". What it could be]

[viscid ridge]

You do you, but to me she looks like a sweet old lady, kinda like that dove lady from home alone 🥺❤️

[opal beacon]

On the controls, it set on dream nail button

[cursive sinew]

The website now also states that Hornet is on a pilgrimage to the peak to find out the truth behind her capture

[opal beacon]

Yeah

That the main goal of the game

[viscid ridge]

The story of silksong: "May i speak to the manager"

[opal beacon]

"May i speak to Silksong?"

[viscid ridge]

Hornet is a karen confirmed

[opal beacon]

Maybe another higher being

[cursive sinew]

William Pellen.

[opal beacon]

Seth is controlled by Brooklyn Blackout Cake

[lapis creek]

how many higher beings in this game

place bets

[cursive sinew]

At least 2

[spark valve]

I hope just 2

[cursive sinew]

I'd say 3-4 though

[lapis creek]

2-3

[viscid ridge]

Yeah i also think the curse that effects the land of pharloom may be called the voice, kinda like the infection. We also know in the og game that some bugs purposely used the infection to get stronger, so maybe people can do the same with the voice in silksong

[opal beacon]

I hope dozen

[opal beacon]

Voice is side thing, Voice is only controlling Seth

[lapis creek]

like 1-2 major ones and then 1-2 like unn where it's not really clear

[cursive sinew]

People may think its boring but higher beings are what made shit interesting and I bet Pharloom was made by another wyrm, but that wyrm isnt that important

[lapis creek]

why

[opal beacon]

The bugs are controlled by silk and song

[pseudo geyser]

Probably one surrounding Silk, like a Spider God they've enslaved and they gotta replace it with Hornet since it's power is waning. Also a sort of Musical entity that can control people.

[viscid ridge]

I doubt it we know the one fancy dude can also control the voice

[opal beacon]

Because a i want so

[cursive sinew]

My theory rn is Weaver higher being of sorts

[flat hearth]

6 days brothers

[viscid ridge]

Yeah tammo i swear, i just cant remember his name 😭

[opal beacon]

6 days before all our asks will be answered

[spark valve]

trobbio's description is saying he's good at acting painting and singing not talking about the same voice seth is

[flat hearth]

Mossbag has pointed out multiple times about when you kill bugs they have puppet strings

At least a lot of them do, so somone is like controlling them somehow

[viscid ridge]

Ok then

[runic musk]

6 days already?

[viscid ridge]

Wasnt that removed in recent trailers, i might be misrembering, or maybe its at an angle now or something

[cursive sinew]

Nope it wasnt

[flat hearth]

The new one is at an angle, like it's in the direction of the citadel

[viscid ridge]

4 hours till 5 days 🥳

[viscid ridge]

Yeah i remember that

[cursive sinew]

Pharloom is a giant factory that runs on slave work

[lapis creek]

higher beings are what made things interesting because the rest of the society was mostly irrelevant by the premise of the story. radiance wiped everyone out that's the point

[opal beacon]

I think Silksong lore is : manipulation over other manipulations, like puppeteer controlling other puppeteers

[viscid ridge]

What skave labour does the little mossbabies do for pharloom 🤣

[lapis creek]

if you have active civilizations already there you dont need a bunch of gods to move the plot along

[opal beacon]

That would be cool

[cursive sinew]

Ok but I dont want them to throe away what made HK...HK

[lapis creek]

what's that

[viscid ridge]

I like the pupeteer theory, but i think team cherry is more creative than that, its probably something different

[opal beacon]

Yeah

[cursive sinew]

Do you remember the first time you realized you challenged the fucking sun

[opal beacon]

It was horrifying

[viscid ridge]

I challenge the sun every day tbh 😞

[spark valve]

Hallownest is also established to be pretty unique in terms of how many gods there are around which makes them a disproportionate driver of plot there compared to other places

[viscid ridge]

Luckily there is this cheese strat i learned from my mother, called sunscreen

[cursive sinew]

Higher beings are simply part of HK's world and I want them to expand on the concept rather than take it away

[opal beacon]

Just imagine that feeling, entering the citadel after 7 years

[flat hearth]

I think they already said something along the lines of Pharloom being less mystical right? That's why themes are more like tools and gadgets instead of charms and magic

[viscid ridge]

Maybe this is where we enter the giant ball cocoon above the citidel, will be hype

[cursive sinew]

I heard that before yeah

[opal beacon]

And there's also a lot of robots 🤖

[flat hearth]

Yea and robots lol

[opal beacon]

No, they can't just show how Hornet is achieved the main goal of the game

[lapis creek]

limiting it isn't taking it away it's making the story more focused

[cursive sinew]

what...

[flat hearth]

I don't think they are taking it away, I just don't think it's gonna be such a main focus like PK was in HK

[viscid ridge]

Bro trust

[lapis creek]

if you have 12 you start to dilute the concept of a higher being

[opal beacon]

I'm not)

[flat hearth]

I'm sure it will be present tho in some capacity, cuz we are going to learn more about Hornet and her past and she is half god so it's kinda relevant

[cursive sinew]

Yeah sure but you cant tell me that rn eith pure speculation you dont just think a higher being controls pharloom

[lapis creek]

it's definitely going to be present in some capacity i think

[opal beacon]

This ball just doesn't have any entrances and golden roads

[cursive sinew]

That is clearly a magical force tovsome degree

[opal beacon]

You definitely going from down

[flat hearth]

Can't wait to fight this fluffy thing

[half creek]

Trobbio’s arena looks so much better now

[opal beacon]

Trobbio is also NPC

[lapis creek]

it's a magical force but you don't know who is in control and what their motivations are

[flat hearth]

Ohhh, so fight then talk? Or talk then fight

[opal beacon]

I'm showed arena from 2019

[half creek]

yeah

[cursive sinew]

He'll likely pull a dung defender honestly

[opal beacon]

Maybe both

[half creek]

thats true…

[lapis creek]

pharlooms folly could indicate that the higher being is dormant or enslaved rather than actively taking charge of the fate of the kingdom

[opal beacon]

I'm waiting for mossbag hour video

[half creek]

mossbag gonna have a field day

[flat hearth]

Dude I was thinking he was gonna drop one from the new footage before the game comes out but it seems like not

Probably just gonna do a big video post release?

[opal beacon]

They see you beauty, so frail and find
They see your peace, woven of faith an toil
They forget your heart, bound in slumber and servitude
When you'll wake, they shall see you truth
A beast's nature bare to all

[opal beacon]

He said he will do right before, like the final bow before the Silksong

[lapis creek]

whoa im glad you pinged me otherwise id never have seen this

[flat hearth]

Oh he said he's gonna drop a video before it comes out?

[opal beacon]

Yes, 5 days ago he said that

[flat hearth]

Nice!

[opal beacon]

His video will cover everything we know about Silksong

[cursive sinew]

The beast's nature line interests me. Do you think we'll see like wayy more big bugs than in HK?

[opal beacon]

I'm imagining cocoon, and beast sleeping inside and then this shit awakes and tears down the Pharloom

Like "When you'll wake they shall see your truth. A beast's nature bare to all"

Yeah, Silksong lore will be mindblowing

Its definitely a cocoon

"so FRAIL and fine"

"WOVEN of faith and toil"

[real crater]

ok whats the cocoon theory

[flat hearth]

One things for sure, there will be silk

[rocky flare]

how about song

[flat hearth]

I think it's pretty much guaranteed

[uneven oak]

what about bugs

[echo hull]

is there a chance grimm could make it to silksong? for nightmare energy ( now i know he probably wont be added but he is a traveller so he should be able to right?)

[void verge]

Me when the final boss is the knight riding hollow knight

[echo hull]

what if its the void lord

[terse wadi]

Pharloom is not dead

[void verge]

Second phase they break each other's masks and summon void entity

[echo hull]

chat what is pharloom im slow

[terse wadi]

Grimm Troupe only comes to dead kingdoms

[void verge]

Pharloom is the new kingdom
Like hallownest

[echo hull]

wait so

[terse wadi]

It's the name of the kingdom

[echo hull]

pharloom isnt dead??? but it was said to be dying in the trailer

[spark valve]

it wasn't

[terse wadi]

Dying doesn't mean dead

[echo hull]

fair enough

[terse wadi]

And the fact we can save it means it's not terminal

[tawdry flare]

Pharloom is 𝓅𝒽𝓁ℴ𝓊𝓇𝒾𝓈𝒽𝒾𝓃ℊ

[spark valve]

it's not even said to be dying

[void verge]

I wonder just how much addition to the lore of the first game we will get
I do expect silksong to be quite independent but still i lowkey want a ton of meaningful fanservice ngl

[terse wadi]

Doubt it

[void verge]

At the very least i feel there will be lots of deepnest lore

[echo hull]

i just wanna learn more about void tbh

[tawdry flare]

Well there’s the Everbloom and probably some Void lore

[terse wadi]

There is no void lore because void is empty

[void verge]

I feel like as of now we know the perfect amount about void
If it gets too explained it loses a lot of its charm imo
I wouldnt mind learning about the perception of void in a different culture though
Like maybe in pharloom they still worship void in some places

[echo hull]

yea but what about its apllications ( ithink its spelled like that ?)

[spark valve]

void is the thing that has the most mechanical and thematic exploration of anything in hk

[terse wadi]

Bro missed the joke

[echo hull]

[void verge]

Silksong in 5 days what the hellll

[gentle aspen]

The joke was just bad

[terse wadi]

I'd rate it B- tier compared to the other shit said here

[echo hull]

we need pantheon in silksong or smth

[gentle aspen]

Of course you’d rate your own joke highly it was C tier at best

[tawdry flare]

Excuse me? Reiterating Sharpe is Void is peak humor

[void verge]

I have been hoping for something like the Colosseum in silksong
I love that tbh, was sad elden ring didnt implement it the way i wanted

But pantheon or whatever, im sure there will be a boss rush mode at the very least, probably not on launch though

[terse wadi]

If I rated it highly it'd be SSS tier

[echo hull]

i wonder what DLC's we will get
Cus in hk they were peak

[tawdry flare]

I really hope they lock another ending behind a boss rush

[void verge]

Never finished past pantheon 2 💔