sk-lore

[foggy fractal]

that beast being me i ate all of pharloom

[craggy sleet]

Idk, I think it would be cool. Maybe the reason they make the music is to keep it asleep

Or, in other words:

[terse mural]

its just midwifes kingdom after i grinded for all journal entriess ☺️ (i assume they all die automatically though)

[edgy stone]

Okay I finished my beer and stopping driving

[fossil wraith]

I don't think there is a living beast in pharloom anymore. More likely it's a massive dead thing like the pale kings wyrm corpse. I do think the kingdom might be a giant machine

[terse mural]

suspiciously pharloom shaped 🫃

[foggy fractal]

wait this is heat

[blissful harbor]

giant weaver head

[eternal gazelle]

La-Mulana did this and it was peak

not the game, that specific plot point

please don't play la-mulana without a wiki

[edgy stone]

Okay so my main weaver are evil theory kinda really only works if weavers were important in deepest and were some advisor to herrah

Its the whole evil advisor corrupting the leader with bad ideas gimmick

[fossil wraith]

The weavers secretly rule pharloom from the top of the citadel and use the bugs as puppets with their string. Hornet was captured because they want to unite the weavers. They wanted to do a similar thing in hollownest but radiance and the infection got in the way so they left

[amber bridge]

I mean they were involved and even livid far west of Deepnest which is closest to Herrah‘s rest, so I‘d wager that could be an indication that they were important, perhaps akin to a royal family to a dynasty. Technically they were involved esp/ with early Hornet given their Dreamnail dialogues

[terse mural]

midwife was like "heheheh most intelligent species they uh made pans and bazookas and shit" and thats like a good 50% of what we know about them so far

[amber bridge]

average hollow knight lore interaction

[edgy stone]

Which is kinda all I have to go off of

[terse mural]

were involved with the dealings of the dalliance and developed the seal of binding

[craggy sleet]

We know that pharloom makes robots.maybe they’re trying to revive the corpse as a giant machine??

[edgy stone]

And the weavers implication in the seals and the fact they probably traded with the pk

[fossil wraith]

They made herrah have hornet so they could gain more power in hollownest or to have higher being blood among them

[edgy stone]

If the hidden station is anything to go off of

[fossil wraith]

Holy peak

[amber bridge]

and the seal of bindings, forgot those. but it’s still sufficient enough enough they were important to not just deepnest but hallownest as whole, no? royal family of a kingdom makes closest sense to me

[terse mural]

pk is also a sewer. i mean a sewinger. i mean they gave him spools!!!!

[amber bridge]

maybe just that we’re a missing the finer details sure

[edgy stone]

The main thing also is that I dont get the reason why herrah needed a holy heir

[craggy sleet]

Just a crazy idea

[edgy stone]

She was a lowly bug and not actual royalty like the king of deepnest apparently but she was also his wife and would've been the defacto leader

So what would cause the need and importance of something with god blood

[amber bridge]

i’m guessing it’s just the general gist of trying to keep a lineage and rulings of a kingdom alive just because? there is the story of how the old deepnest used to have a king but died for unknown reasons so herrah simply needed to fill the lineage and saw a hack by having her child bear the blood of a higher being

actually no that explanation really isn‘t sufficient

[edgy stone]

Yeah but that lineage would've died no matter and would actually be contaminated by the halllow knight bugs they didnt like

[fossil wraith]

What if it's all a massive misunderstanding and they want hornet to fight something in pharloom that only a higher being can kill

[amber bridge]

was gonna say that because in hindsight of it all it really doesn’t matter

[terse mural]

did deepnest's sire just die of a cold

[edgy stone]

Thats another theory I've had at some point, or hornet is exactly like the knight. Shr was born to be a vessel of something

[amber bridge]

so ulterior motive for herrah and the weavers in regard to hornets origin/birth? noted on the ss bingo

[edgy stone]

Just like hallownest pharloom contains some entity that needs to be contained and the weavers found a solution with a spider that contained pale blood

[amber bridge]

that… doesn’t make sense because hornets birth is tied to herrah‘s choice more and less about the pale king. also why even have hornet be a vessel by a lowly bug like herrah when pk alr had the queen and those countless vessels already?

[edgy stone]

Well I think it was less herrahs choice and more like suggestions and ideas put in her head by the weavers

[amber bridge]

herrah brought the deal of having an heir in the first place which PK accepted not that it was generally PK‘s idea in the first place afaik

[edgy stone]

This is all pure speculation I have to say that first. No evidence exists at all

[fossil wraith]

The weavers want the hornet vessel for something in pharloom, not pale king

[edgy stone]

Yeah thats what I meant. The weavers somehow convinced herrah the extreme need for an heir. Which is why it only makes sense if they were royal advisors or something similar

[fossil wraith]

Building a batshit insane theory for the fun of it

[edgy stone]

For the love of the game

[fossil wraith]

And if we're right we get bragging rights

[edgy stone]

Indeed indeed

[amber bridge]

… that would require the weavers knowing how to get to abyss and chuck a baby hornet into it all the while herrah does not gaf? batshit theory indeed

[edgy stone]

Okay when I said vessel I did not mean like hollow knight vessel

[vestal swan]

She's not void

Yopi just meant they had some conspiracy purpose for the child

[amber bridge]

ahhh my mind went elsewhere

a vessel for something I can def see it, that’s actually not far from batshit crazy

[fossil wraith]

They want a higher being for something

[edgy stone]

But a vessel in the actual word, she is simply needed to contain something else in pharloom anx thats why her silk is important. Its my fault for using a term with a meaning in game I should've specified

[amber bridge]

I got it now, noted

[vestal swan]

I mean she's not really a container, she could be used to seal something probably with her magic but

[edgy stone]

Its all baseless and has nothing but its what I think silksongs story is going to be

[edgy stone]

I think its either shes needed to contain something to stop it. Or be consumed by something

[fossil wraith]

Maybe she won't die of old age so they want to make her the queen

[edgy stone]

Like the beast needs a vessel to have proper form and the weavers want that

[fossil wraith]

Yeah

[edgy stone]

I like this idea because it creates an almost parallel for the vessels and hornet herself, one she wouldnt of ever knoen

[amber bridge]

on a narrative point of view, potential for sure

[edgy stone]

Main issue with this idea is why hornet wasnt brought along with the weavers when they migrated

Or why they didnt leave immediately after her birth

It might be able to be explained but it is a rather large hole

[amber bridge]

afaik it was a deal w PK (or just her desire for duty of her homeland idk which) that hornet were to remain in hallownest in hopes for a new vessel to step in to replace the hollow knight or smt ?

[edgy stone]

It makes sense for hornet to not leave herself, but less why she wasnt forced by the weavers if they truly do have ill intentions

[fossil wraith]

I think realistically the reason the deepnest weavers wanted a heir with PK is for good relations with their neighbour kingdom and to have a stronger than usual being as their leader

Then coincidentally her being a higher being caught the eye of someone/something against the citadel when she arrived or is uniquely resistant to some mind control thing

Then her motivation for saving the kingdom is because she wants to save the weavers

Oh but I just had an alternate theory where weavers are evil

The weavers who were in deepnest are weavers that were shunned by the ones ruling pharloom. They wanted to have hornet be their saviour and warrior who defeats the evil weavers but things went wrong and they ended up having to abandon her and deepnest. Then the citadel weavers went to capture hornet so they could imprison her and make sure she won't overthrow them but she got freed by some rebels in pharloom

Actually one last theory. Weavers used to rule pharloom but someone else took over and they now need weavers to unlock stuff made by the weavers or they need to get rid of weavers so they don't unlock old weaver stuff that threatens their rule

[lapis creek]

mr mushroom predictions?

[vestal swan]

I think he's going to wipe one specific tribe off the map and then blast a hole in the roof

You know like it's the end of spiders or something

[lapis creek]

yes but which tribe will the herald manifest as a part of

[terse mural]

surely theyve got to up the ante with mr mushroom now that we know what to expect from him. him taking off and flying simply isnt gonna be such a comedic punchline anymore

[lapis creek]

surely hes not just mister mushroom again

[sinful nimbus]

Opens a portal to Fearless Fox and jumps inside

[terse mural]

maybe some batshit revelation to recontextualize his previous insane ramblings with the presumed mushroom hivemind

[fossil wraith]

Holy shit phantom is Mr. Mushroom

[sinful nimbus]

Needs to have an alliterate name too

[lapis creek]

miss mycelium

[terse mural]

also how would hornet even learn mushroom this time

[fossil wraith]

He's gonna be mold mother at the bottom of that mold/dandelion area

[pseudo lily]

Most residents of Hallownest know mushroom, the Knight was just intolerant.

[fossil wraith]

Nuu translates him for her. It's gonna be a really long escort mission to get him there where you also can't let him kiss hornet.

[vestal swan]

Why would he not be Mr mushroom

[trail wasp]

So question: Since it seems that Void is likely going to be a HK universal constant, does that have any implications for what its history is?

[sinful nimbus]

Not really

It just means that some other groups may have interacted with it

[trail wasp]

Way out there theory: Hornet was the gendered child, but the Pale King attempted at some point to utilize the Void through a Hornet construct and that made this dude.

The character shape feels way too similar to Hornet to be a coincidence

Really stupid theory: This is just the aftermath of the HK after confronting Hornet. The Knight was called Ghost, and Hornet named the HK, Phantom as a means to honor them.

[fossil wraith]

I swear I've seen a real bug that really reminds me of those ass flaps

[trail wasp]

The Pale King

not really, but I do think Phantom being the OG Hollow Knight would be a cool twist

[fossil wraith]

No I mean an actual bug with horns spikes like phantom has

[trail wasp]

Can't think of anything atm

[fossil wraith]

I don't even know if it has lore relevance but it keeps bothering me about it

[trail wasp]

I just think having the name "Phantom" when Hornet called the player "Ghost" is a hint.

Unless void plays another decent role in the story, having a void character probably raises only more questions than answers.

[odd jackal]

they added steam cards?

[trail wasp]

indeed

[fossil wraith]

Phantom does remind me of this guy like one person already pointed out

[odd jackal]

how do i find them

[fossil wraith]

Sorry I couldn't find a better screenshot

[odd jackal]

fierce dryaa?

[fossil wraith]

Yes

[odd jackal]

how do you view them

[trail wasp]

unsure

but folks have been looking through the steam for them

The kissy bug is named "nuu"

[odd jackal]

ok so it seems ifs not actually visible on steam but its accessable through the api

so you can see it on steamdb

[late linden]

You can see the tail of the cloak better from the actual sprite imo

I uploaded a bit slow

[fossil wraith]

Still pk is a worm. Not whatever phantom is

[trail wasp]

Technically the player is half-wyrm

Being a wyrm really doesn't mean much to your shape

[odd jackal]

also very interested to note that arcane eggs are in silksong?

[trail wasp]

see Hornet, player, and Hollow Knight

And Phantom shares a striking resemblance to Hornet

[fossil wraith]

Well pk resembles a worm. I think phantom resembles another bug

[late linden]

He molted his worm body so it doesn't really matter

[odd jackal]

the phantom's face does look like the hk's facd

like if you shattered hk's shell you could reasonably get that shard

[trail wasp]

I wouldn't be surprised if somehow the Hollow Knight shed their old decayed body as well and now have a form similar to Hornet

[late linden]

Phantom's face really is almost the same as Hornet's

[odd jackal]

phantom also wields a needle

[fossil wraith]

I think the bigger problem is that body. All void beings we've seen have a black body with clothing on top

[sinful nimbus]

? Vessels don't do this

[late linden]

I think it is a pin?

[odd jackal]

oh yeah more of a pin

[fossil wraith]

It's whatever the citadel people are using

[odd jackal]

like lace's but much longer

[odd jackal]

yeah but they swing it around like a club, phantom is clearly using it like lace and hornet weild their weapons

[sinful nimbus]

Its called a "longpin" in their description

[trail wasp]

Perhaps, but we've never seen a knight reach an age similar to the Pale King, nor the size, and have the chance.

[odd jackal]

oh shit i didnt think to look at descriptions

[trail wasp]

Just a wildshot theory

[late linden]

Also it wears the white shell like a mask, you can see a bit of void on the side, like the "face" isn't covered entirely

[odd jackal]

where did u find the descriptions?
edit: i found it

[fossil wraith]

Yes we have. Literally the hollow knight/pure vessel

[sinful nimbus]

All vessels are pretty old, unaging, and I don't think they would have the chance in the first place

[signal dock]

what are we discussing

[trail wasp]

The possibility that Phantom could be the OG Hollow Knight

[late linden]

Hornet is a child of the pk so still counts

[signal dock]

thats quite the theory

[fossil wraith]

And also yeah every time we've seen a vessels mask break they die/their shade escapes

[fossil wraith]

Explain

[signal dock]

Phantom resembles hornet so much more tho

[vestal swan]

They're not related

[pseudo lily]

I’m gonna dismiss it solely on the basis that the shells don’t match. The crack in THK’s shell reached all the way down to their eye, which means we’d see a part of it on Phantom, but we don’t.

[vestal swan]

Is a negative number

[trail wasp]

Phantom resembles Hornet to an absurd degree. My idea was that somehow the HK shed into a new form or wasa focused into something new in order to survive (it's old body was in shambles from the infection). The name "Phantom" being a reference to Hornet naming us "Ghost" and the name being a sort of honor after the player died.

[fossil wraith]

Phantom resembles hornet more than any vessel and their design really doesn't match with anything we know of the vessels

[sinful nimbus]

Kitsune theory still holds strong

[vestal swan]

No

[late linden]

Slightly changing topic, but I didn't expect at all TC expanding on Void lore

[lapis creek]

i havent really been around that much has ss disc always been like this

[trail wasp]

neither did I

[foggy fractal]

Powdered how about your theory of what Phantom is :D

[signal dock]

I think Phantom could just be like Hornet's worst enemy or smth :/ idk im not enveloped in this much

[sinful nimbus]

this is ss-lore ss-disc has been off-topic for like 3 years until the release date

[late linden]

I'm excited to find out new lore

[pseudo lily]

Issue number two: THK is only confirmed to survive in Embrace the Void. It wouldn’t jive with the whole “all endings are canon” thing.

[terse mural]

no because people didnt talk about silksong at all

[lapis creek]

i see

[fossil wraith]

It could also just be a narrative thing. Maybe she's gonna be similar to hornet in a lot of ways but working on the wrong side

[pseudo lily]

Well, ss-lore has always been like this, if only because it’s existed for all of two days.

[lapis creek]

phantom has existed for about 18 hours

[vestal swan]

I think phantom is in charge of somebody, or somebody's. Their tail but thing looks like a maestro coat you know like a conductor that's the word, and they also have a scarred face so they're The phantom of the Opera

What cracked ass reading glasses are y'all looking through to see similarities between phantom and anybody

[lapis creek]

the eyes do look like hornet

[fossil wraith]

Maybe phantom is hornet in disguise

[odd jackal]

ok so trading cards and their descriptions:

Grindle
"Since when's a little light thievery worth a lifelong sentence?"

Hornet
"then i shal seek their citadel. if these vieled bugs would go to such lengths to bring md here, i intend to find out why."

Lace
"Manic fencer who delights in battle"

Nuu
"Cut them with your blade! Cut them with your matude spirit! Cut them with your savagr adult heart!"

Phantom
"Mournful creature tasked along to expel the citadel's choking refuse. Their talent with a longpin is unmatched"

Shakra
"Warrior cartographer of a tribe from pharloom's edge. Her skills in battle could challenge the kingdom's best"

Sherma
"I am Sherma, a pilgrim just like you. I hear the call of the great citadel just like every other devout soul"

Trobbio
"Haughty thespian convinced that only dazzling perfomance can eaise pgarloom from the throes of death."

Garmond & Zaza
"Vigotous old knight and their noble companion, working together to see their lands cut free from the haunted madness"

[late linden]

Yea pretty much

[vestal swan]

Yeah and fury of the fallen looks like the shade Lord

[pseudo lily]

The angular shape of their eyes is very similar to hornet’s, and we really don’t see them anywhere else.

[sinful nimbus]

it also looks like lace

[vestal swan]

One similar trait is nowhere near enough to compare somebody, you could connect dozens of characters in the first game if that was true

[foggy fractal]

awesome

[signal dock]

"Their talent with a longpin is unmatched" really makes me think Phantom is like Hornet's worst enemy

[terse mural]

we'll finally fight the fury lord????

[sinful nimbus]

Kitsune are known to assume the form of beautiful women

[vestal swan]

I think you need glasses

[lapis creek]

the lace thing i really dont understand

[late linden]

I mean it's not like we are going to figure out what's the lore of the game lmao

[sinful nimbus]

Its the waist and limb shapes

[late linden]

Yea same

[odd jackal]

i thought "their" was notable since only void creatures are genderless in hallownest, but garmond is also described as "they" so it kinda ruined my theory

[pseudo lily]

I feel like that applies to far too many bugs, Hornet included.

[terse mural]

idk laces waist is more noticeably like nonexistent

[blissful harbor]

her eye and head shape give the impression of a distorted hornet imo

[pseudo lily]

True, but void creatures are pretty consistently referred to as “it”.

[fossil wraith]

I think phantom is gonna be way more connected to the main boss than pk or vessels. Seems like they're tasked with keeping the citadel in line

[sinful nimbus]

Hornets waist is wayyy wider

[terse mural]

there are only two paths:

1. garmond is void
   or
2. garmond is woke

[pseudo lily]

Okay so we’re fat shaming now okay

[odd jackal]

3. garmond is woke void

[terse mural]

ignore they mightve just not used another pronoun on a whim

[terse mural]

🔥✍️

[sinful nimbus]

TC speaks as if multiple regular bugs are genderless in interviews

[odd jackal]

grindle is a shitass little theif and i love him

[sinful nimbus]

My goat

[late linden]

Grindle is the best really

[sinful nimbus]

Garmond has been called a he before though so its probably just them being neutral

[fossil wraith]

I think Phantoms appearance is gonna be more narrative based than lore based

[terse mural]

i wonder how straightforward the validity of all of grindles lore drops are gonna be across all his dialogue

[fossil wraith]

Like how zote is similar to the vessels but definitely isn't one

[odd jackal]

i think garmond is gender evil

[terse mural]

like are some of them going to randomly be completely true

will we be cursed to 3 years of grindle accuracy discourse

[pseudo lily]

“You’re gender neutral? Lame. I’m gender pacifist.”

[odd jackal]

your gender pacifist? fool. my gender are Genocide

[blissful harbor]

this was my original thinking, thst she’s a reflection of hornet, akin to zote but reversed
being the “cooler” version instead of the lamer one like zote

[severe siren]

Phantom is actually Painted Hornet

[pseudo lily]

Spoilers man

[severe siren]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1380233368523898991/1408149141162426509/IMG_0254.gif

[pseudo lily]

||And then Painted THK takes off the mask and says “my beautiful sibling doesn’t need this ugly mask” and we yes WE all start crying||

[severe siren]

Absolute cinema

[pseudo lily]

That scene still fucks with me

[odd jackal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1361767766822093051/1408261550510182471/speed.gif

[fossil wraith]

Okay new topic time. Any guesses as to if or how many higher beings pharloom is gonna have and what might they be?

[foggy fractal]

at least 2

[sinful nimbus]

mr mushroom and maybe the voice

[pseudo lily]

Well, at least 0.5, since Hornet is there. I’d be willing to bet at least one more.

[sinful nimbus]

voice would be cooler if it was some dude like Seer though just being nefarious

[calm pagoda]

it’s peak

[odd jackal]

zero because only a godless land could house such evil as Nuu

[fossil wraith]

Elaborate

[pseudo lily]

Mid pfp

Not a personal slight btw, e33 is just mid

So it’s a slight against your tastes ig

[odd jackal]

the voice calling from the citadel could be a higher being

[foggy fractal]

no

[fossil wraith]

Ok

[foggy fractal]

too much thinking its summer time

[pseudo lily]

It would make sense, they seem to have a similar level of control to the Radiance and her infection.

[odd jackal]

although im actually more inclined to believe that there isnt any gods at play here, but spirits

[fossil wraith]

Yeah probably. A bird? Silkmoth?

[odd jackal]

some weird puppet creature maybe

higher beings are not bugs

only radiance resembles a bug

[fossil wraith]

True but also consider radiance moth

[odd jackal]

didnt radiance make the moths in her own image

[sinful nimbus]

yeah

[terse mural]

aluo post the puppetmaster fake again

[sinful nimbus]

Aluo is dead

[foggy fractal]

this will be silksong in 2021 !!!!!!!!!!!

[fossil wraith]

I think there is a chance it's just a machine. A music box that keeps playing while there is no real ruler of pharloom

[odd jackal]

also the white flower is called an everbloom

[sinful nimbus]

grrrr

[odd jackal]

im just generally a big fan of there being zero higher beings at play

makes it feel like this land really is a ghost

no gods nor rulers, just the haunted remnants lingering on

[fossil wraith]

Yeah it's a nice idea. I like the idea of it being a machine that just keeps going for the same reason

[odd jackal]

yeah i like that theory

evil steampunk lmao

also fits the whole puppet motif

[fossil wraith]

Then we have religious fanatics worshiping what they think is a god and doing what they believe it wants

[odd jackal]

honestly if the voice is a god i feel that would take away from the story a little

[fossil wraith]

Maybe even keeping the machine operational without realising it's just a mindless machine

[terse mural]

there is Another #sk-discussion message

[odd jackal]

these bugs dragged hornet here, everyone is worshipping it and if it actually turns out to be a real higher being, ill be disappointed

[terse mural]

are people worshiping the voice?

seth has seemingly killed some of the veiled guys

and is guarding some secret (possibly from them) on the voices behest

[fossil wraith]

Kinda same but also I wouldn't hate it. Maybe there is some really cool shit they'll do with an actual higher being

[terse mural]

im not sure theyd be on the same "side"

whatever the voice is might be completely unknown to almost everyone with the way seth has to ask people if they know about it and can hear it

[fossil wraith]

But also it could be someone(s) pulling the strings and controlling everything while not being higher beings at all

[odd jackal]

and with how steampunk and clock-like the setting it, the idea of it being a giant automated machine far outliving its purpose feels like the reasonable conclusion

[fossil wraith]

Maybe a cult using the machine to play god

[fossil wraith]

Yeah I really hope that's what it will be but we'll just have to wait to find out

[odd jackal]

its like all of pharloom is one big machine that still runs despite its reason for existing being long gone

[odd jackal]

we dont have to wait long

im unemployed and broke but i am still buying this shit the moment it drops

[spark valve]

At large? Maybe not but Trobbio potentially and Seth serves it

[terse mural]

oh trobbio?

[spark valve]

Didn’t his intro mention something about voice, iirc it was not as explicitly an entity as with Seth but it was reminiscent

[fossil wraith]

This isn't based on really anything but what if it's a music box that was dropped and forgotten by a human and bugs took over while not really understanding it. With maybe someone using it to pretend to be a higher being.

[odd jackal]

wizard of oz

[spark valve]

“Master of the Stage, the Brush and the Voice, the flamboyant butterfly Trobbio seeks fame and adoration throughout Pharloom” meh I misremembered

[odd jackal]

i dont think trobbio is in the cult

[spark valve]

Seth isn’t either

[odd jackal]

interesting that seth doesnt get a trading card

[winged hollow]

It’s possible the Voice is a subdivision of the general religion Pharloom follows

[fossil wraith]

I think a lot of the games story is gonna revolve around the politics of the factions in pharloom

[spark valve]

It’s pretty oppositional

[winged hollow]

Oh? Is that the consensus?

[spark valve]

Seth killing citadel members is pretty decisive

If they were allies he uh wouldn’t do that

[foggy fractal]

hopefully Seth doesn't kill me too

[sinful nimbus]

dog eat dog world

[spark valve]

He will.

[fossil wraith]

Imagine if the phantom trading card is just a massive misdirection to keep us distracted until the game comes out

[foggy fractal]

no not like Hornet,
me, Andy, would he kill me ? I'm just a round little bug walking by :C

could probably sneak around him

[winged hollow]

Oh right lol; mb

[sinful nimbus]

phantom is too peam to not be in the game

[spark valve]

Did I stutter

[foggy fractal]

😨

[sinful nimbus]

I hope the arcane egg stuff is a misdirection though that'd be funny and based

[foggy fractal]

shit I gotta be sneaky

[fossil wraith]

The sprite is slightly different but I haven't checked

[winged hollow]

I mean it’s possible the ancient civilization was FAR more widespread and was more like an empire

[odd jackal]

did irl seth die? he hasnt posted on reddit in 5 years

[sinful nimbus]

I believe so

[odd jackal]

:<

[fossil wraith]

My theory is the void is just like the bottom of the world and there were many civilizations worshipping it

[odd jackal]

he lives on in silksong

and our hearts

[winged hollow]

Seems plausible to me

[odd jackal]

well the arcane eggs arent void, they're a form of data storage invented by the ancient bugs of hallownest

[fossil wraith]

Embodiment of the darkness and emptiness of the deepest parts of the world, of the things that were forgotten

[winged hollow]

Shouldn’t matter considering the ancient civilization is very closely tied to void

[fossil wraith]

True but they're tied to void

[odd jackal]

for them to be in pharloom means that there must have been an ancient civilisation there that also had direct communication with the one in hallownest

[fossil wraith]

Could be just a bug species that did that

[fossil wraith]

Maybe they communicated through the void

[odd jackal]

yes but they were invented in ancient hallownest. an entire unrelated civilisation that also worships the void would not have arcane eggs because they were a creation of the society not the void

[odd jackal]

not a thing void has been established to do

[sinful nimbus]

What?

[winged hollow]

Regardless, there seem to be arcane eggs in Pharloom. Therefore, the civilization is more widespread than just Hallownest

[odd jackal]

arcane eggs appear as a badge on silksong

[fossil wraith]

Them being created in hallownest is an assumption lem maddt

[odd jackal]

not really important to the point

arcane egg in pharloom = ancient hallownestians must have been in pharloom

[winged hollow]

Or, it’s not an exclusively Hallownest thing

That’s kinda our whole argument

[lapis creek]

the only alternative is that two societies independently came up with the best mode of data storage

[odd jackal]

@winged hollow

[fossil wraith]

Okay but what if we find out making them has something to do with void

[odd jackal]

which seems unlikely

and bad storytelling

[lapis creek]

if two completely isolated people sat down and thought about it for a while they might come up with the same answer

[odd jackal]

sure but they wouldnt look the same

[lapis creek]

i dont seriously believe they would do this but i think it would be pretty funny

[odd jackal]

swords were independently invented all across the world and look incredibly different, this is just literally the same egg

[lapis creek]

they look slightly different but i see your point

[fossil wraith]

We know almost nothing about the ancient civilization and now we know that one of the things we thought we knew (them being local to hallownest) is not true

[winged hollow]

Yeah I think the point is though that we know for sure the ancient civilization is not exclusively native to Hallownest

[lapis creek]

one thing we know about them is that they populated all of hallownest with soul totems

[fossil wraith]

the arcane eggs look slightly different this time around

[cold hinge]

sorry for interrupting, but I keep seeing people say that silksong will likely be a prequel, but I don't see how that's possible, as I thought she was born and raised in hallownest, and was its sole defender until the knight came along. Can someone explain to me what the deal is with that, and if there was some point when she could have left to pharloom and came back??

[sinful nimbus]

prequel theory doesn't really make sense

[lapis creek]

im interested in the explanation for where the soul totems are in silksong

[vestal swan]

Prequel theory never had any ground it was based on a bad translation

[lapis creek]

they definitely have options for how to deal with that

[vestal swan]

Melted down

[cold hinge]

ohhhh okay, thank you for clearing that up!!

[odd jackal]

wasnt prequel theory straight up debunked by team cherry statung that they wanted the canon ending to be vague and that silksong works with most endingd

[lapis creek]

e.g. religious zealots wipe out other religious zealots

[fossil wraith]

They might exist but probably won't be anything but background details in wherever we find the arcane eggs

[lapis creek]

they didnt say that in that context and even if they did it would not debunk the prequel theory

[odd jackal]

i remember them saying that maybe im just crazy

[lapis creek]

they did say that

or no wait they said "in future content" not specifically silksong

and that they are not fans of the concept of "true endings"

[cold hinge]

I did see this screenshot tossed around, but I’m not sure where it came from or if things have changed since this was said

[odd jackal]

and it would because id theyre purposefully making silksong make sense with all endings, that means silksong would have to be influenced by the ending and thus take place after

[sinful nimbus]

They're just saying that silksong being called a sequel on the storepage doesn't mean anything for its chronological placement

[lapis creek]

a prequel would make sense with all endings. and depending on how you stretch the statement to silksong all of its endings would have to allow hollow knight to occur

[fossil wraith]

Silksong going first makes a lot of lore more complicated in an annoying way, limits ending possibilities for skong, and HK has no reference to hornet being gone for an extended period of time. We can't really debunk the theory until release but I have no interest in exploring it

[lapis creek]

also where do the weavers go in hk if ss is a prequel?

[fossil wraith]

Exactly what I mean by making lore complicated in an annoying way

[terse mural]

awkshully the weavers were all originally from ze'mer's land the ones in silksong were just sightseeing

[cold hinge]

I feel like it would be boring if it was a prequel, as the endings to hollow knight leave room for interesting continuations to the story (especially the embrace the void ending, but the odds of that, or any specific ending being canon are low)

[spark valve]

There are bigger things that are issues for prequel

[lapis creek]

yes

[odd jackal]

-# the existance of the delicate flower in silksong kinda implies that zemer is also from pharloom

especially since it has an actual name here

[cold hinge]

I was thinking about that, and I got curious about how it got its seemingly anti-void properties. Maybe void is an issue in pharloom, and these flowers evolved to fight back against it...?

[terse mural]

idk, im thinking theyre either just present in various places, pharloom included, or they were retrieved for their presumed usefulness. just 'cause ze'mer's dialogue is so unlike anything seen in pharloom

[fossil wraith]

I think the weavers used to rule pharloom or at least a part of it but got attacked by some other faction

[lapis creek]

agreed. hk establishes the flowers can multiply fast so pharloom could just have gotten them from somewhere else a long time ago

[fossil wraith]

Massive bed of flowers below pharloom so void doesn't get in

[terse mural]

unless i guess pharloom's home language was superseded by the common one in hk over the possible centuries ze'mer dallied in hallownest

[cold hinge]

it's a bit of a stretch, but the "choking refuse" from phantom's description could refer to void

[terse mural]

that is a really good point, actually

[fossil wraith]

Can you paste the description here again

[cold hinge]

"Mournful creature tasked alone to expel the Citadel's choking refuse. Their talent with a longpin is unmatched."

[odd jackal]

i dont read it as anti-void, more like it has a strange reaction when in contact with void

like some massive explosion of energy

[lapis creek]

i think itd be out of character for the ac to not try to put them everywhere

so i hope they explain what stopped them

[odd jackal]

phantom is totally void

[fossil wraith]

They're the enforcement arm of the citadel. The refusal of the citadel is what is choking I think. They're killing those who go against them and is very efficient at it.

[odd jackal]

im sure of it. they have a cracked shell with black coming out of the top

[sinful nimbus]

It'll be like Ori where we see one decayed map stone in the second game with like no explanation for why there aren't any others

[odd jackal]

its like halfway between broken vessel and a kingsmold

[cold hinge]

that makes a lot of sense

[cold hinge]

if that's true, that would mean that people in pharloom discovered how to mold void like the pale king did

[terse mural]

"what the fuck all this soul in one place and there arent even any spools around this is bullshit" (leaked in-game dialogue)

[midnight reef]

Nono, it implies Pharloom is FRENCH
a true tragedy we have to restore hope to the french...
(This is a joke, I dont think I could make it more clear lol)

[lapis creek]

it could be way more explicit than this, hornet probably knows a few things about the ac

she can trade information with whoever she gives the relics to

[odd jackal]

french????? i cant play this game

[spark valve]

She knows about unification so sure

[vestal swan]

🔔

[odd jackal]

silksong is canceled for being french

[fossil wraith]

They might be void related in some way. Maybe they studied it to use it for power or were attacked with it. I don't think they're made of void though. Also we don't see any vessels survive having their mask broken like that.

[odd jackal]

they're definitely not a vessel

[cold hinge]

wait if the weavers created the seals of binding, do you think that it's possible they also designed the void molds that are used in the pk's workshop? if so, then they may have had the knowledge of how to mold void prior to coming to hallownest, or learned it in hallownest and used it when they traveled back to pharloom

[odd jackal]

more like you dumped void onto a corpse and it somwhow started moving again

[cold hinge]

this is my crackpot theory

[terse mural]

hopefully such an npc freaks out as much as players do about them being in both places

[fossil wraith]

Phantoms design screams a creature getting corrupted or overtaken by void to me instead of a void creature breaking apart

[odd jackal]

heres my wacko boingo theory: weavers as a species are as old as the snails and were the ancient pharloom society. they had communication with hallownest and thats why theres an arcane egg in pharloom

[terse mural]

maybe phantom's just emo

[fossil wraith]

I don't think the snails were the ancients of hallownest

[spark valve]

They weren’t

[odd jackal]

huh?? yeah they are?

[cold hinge]

the snails are definitely old, but not nearly as old as the ancient void worshippers are

[odd jackal]

the snail shamans have many obvious connections to the void

[spark valve]

They have none

[odd jackal]

two of your void spells come from snails

[spark valve]

Explicitly in fact they explicitly have no connection to the void

[sinful nimbus]

The alive snail shaman says its our essence melding with the spell

[fossil wraith]

I honestly think the void might have taught it's worshippers thing's like how to make arcane eggs

[spark valve]

No they don’t, the knight makes them using the shamans as batteries

[terse mural]

omggg guys what if the reason the shaman said theyd never thought to look in the abyss was is was because theyre void from pharloom!!!!

[odd jackal]

he only says that about shriek

[spark valve]

Ten years dungeon

[sinful nimbus]

Idk why it wouldn't be true of the others

[spark valve]

Nope

[sinful nimbus]

-# ~~also its shade soul ~~

[odd jackal]

oh lol

still he mentions his aunt explicitly when you get descending dark

[spark valve]

He doesn’t say it about shriek shriek is the one that actually comes from void and he says “yeah we shamans can’t do that nor do we ever interact with whatever the fuck that is”

[fossil wraith]

I think the game very much implies the ancient civilization disappeared a long time ago. Even if the snails know about void and use it that could just mean they studied it for their own purposes

[spark valve]

They don’t know about or use void

[fossil wraith]

Yeah I agree I'm just saying that even if they did it wouldn't make then the ancients

[spark valve]

That is true

[foggy fractal]

i am probably one of the ancients cuz i was born before hk came out :D

[lapis creek]

across the 4 egg deliveries, hornet has a long drawn out debate with the relic seeker about the civilizations. she desperately tries to convince them that the eggs all come from the same ac but the relic seeker insists that the eggs were so common as record keeping in ancient times, in every kingdom, because of the vibrant international travel that existed at the time. this time the seeker has advanced enough machinery to decode the eggs and is eventually able to prove to hornet using the internal contents that pharloom's ac did not worship the void, but rather the everblooms brought from lands serene, which kept their minds at ease and warded away the darkness

there is no void for the remainder of silksong except for sharpe's beak

[odd jackal]

ok so his line with abyss shriek is
"[...] wherever you draw this new power from, its not a place my kind ever thought to look"
so that means the snails didn't know about the abyss.... which feels odd because the pale king locked away the abyss? how did they not find it in the time between their rule and PK's arrival

[terse mural]

which IS confirmed void, but only the proboscis, and its not relevant to anything else

[fossil wraith]

I think making arcane eggs involves now forgotten and forbidden void magic and if you just study the void you learn how to make them

[terse wadi]

I sure am going to enjoy talking to other bugs in a non decrepted city

[tired robin]

Shoutout to the void for revealing the release date at the end of the release trailer

[spark valve]

They never ruled

[terse wadi]

They slayed

[odd jackal]

yeah to make SSDs you actually need to harness the power of the weave

arcane eggs are not made of void they're just really complicated tech

[tired robin]

like soup?

[fossil wraith]

They never ruled. They're a small culture shamans and mages. I'd guess their kind live all over the world

[terse wadi]

Jokes aside, why we talking about abyss shriek

[odd jackal]

scroll up and read the chat to find out /lh

[spark valve]

Because it proves the snail shamans aren’t ac and don’t use void etc

[tired robin]

I'm just curious why the void is in the SIlksong release trailer

[lapis creek]

yeah i guess theyre only good if you need security. presumably spider silk was cheaper even though it was destroyed by the rain

[odd jackal]

because hornet is void

[fossil wraith]

Cool effect for showing important information

[odd jackal]

no it definitely has significance

[tired robin]

shakes violently
IT HAS TO MEAN SOMETHING

[sinful nimbus]

Its pretty deep down

[odd jackal]

it makes the void sound effect

[tired robin]

that too

[odd jackal]

that plus arcane eggs are in silksong

[tired robin]

I love to eat void

[odd jackal]

theres something suspiciously ancient civilisation shaped going on

[sinful nimbus]

Void believers will be stoned with arcane eggs on Sep 3

[lapis creek]

gonna be tough, there are at least 9 believers

assuming generously that they are birds, you can only kill 8 of them with 4 stones

[sinful nimbus]

I'm including the black egg

[lapis creek]

ok so 10

[fossil wraith]

My issue with the ancient civilization having been massive is that they didn't build that many things or structures

[lapis creek]

totems everywhere

[spark valve]

Mask shard and vessel fragment plinths

[tired robin]

They're probably collapsed

Do you see many ancient roman structures?

[fossil wraith]

Or rather I mean big stuff

[odd jackal]

my theory is that weavers lived the same time as the AC and just had trade deals

[fossil wraith]

Yes, quite a lot of them

[tired robin]

...that weren't initially buried or in a state of disrepair?

[odd jackal]

if weavers can get from pharloom to hallownest without losing their minds and then back then they can definitely create trade routes

oh actually that is also a weird question: why are the bugs in pharloom expanded? who did this?

[tired robin]

how far is Hallownest from Pharloom anyway?

[odd jackal]

and they can clearly leave pharloom if they kidnapped hornet

wait

is the "leave hallownest, lose your mind" thing just unique to pk

[tired robin]

idk

is soup an instrument?

[odd jackal]

it would be really funny if everyone else can wander freely but pk just really doesnt want you to leave so he made his subjects unable to leave

[fossil wraith]

In a state of disrepair yes but the stuff from the ac is almost entirety just statues and small things they made. No big buildings or things to show they were super advanced

[tired robin]

what about the void workstation place in the abyss with the imprint of Abyss given form

What if some of the AC fell into the void sea?

[fossil wraith]

They also probably weren't that strongly united considering that they seem to have slowly disappeared and weren't catastrophically wiped out from what we know

[tired robin]

Maybe it was buried from all the vessel corpses?

[odd jackal]

that or possibly PK is on the weaker side of higher beings. hes the only one we know who actually died (which wasnt at the hands of the knight)

[fossil wraith]

Wasn't that made by PK?

[lapis creek]

if this is true do you think they could have just brought some arcane eggs with them

[tired robin]

...no, the void workstation in the Abyss was not if I recall correctly

[fossil wraith]

My guess it's the song that does it

[lapis creek]

like if theres widespread travel why do we assume the ac had to exist where the arcane eggs are

[cunning dirge]

what do you mean by expanded

[tired robin]

The OTHER void workstation was made by the pale king

the one where you find the kingsmould thing

[odd jackal]

they're big and round,,,,
(expanded minds lol)

[cunning dirge]

ok

[tired robin]

are you just a blob of infection

[odd jackal]

yeah thats my thought

[fossil wraith]

Unfortunately it's way too late for me to think anymore. Goodnight my fellow batshit insane theorists

[odd jackal]

the weavers just bought a few from ancient hallownest and took em home

[cunning dirge]

my pfp is a gup form risk of rain 2

[tired robin]

I see

[light tendon]

Not to sound dumb but could someone tell me what is the lore of silksong like why exactly is hornet in the citadel?

[tired robin]

you look like infection

[terse mural]

phar

[cold hinge]

she got kidnapped and taken there, but other than that I don't think we really know

[light tendon]

is she trying to save the kingdom from some type of curse/spell/something

[cunning dirge]

yeah

[tired robin]

ba-dum tssssss

[edgy stone]

All we know is silk is highly coveted by the citadel and hornet was captured and brought from hallownest because of her silk

[lapis creek]

in that case i guess maybe they took the eggs so that they could examine the information within, to learn more perhaps about the void

[cold hinge]

well pharloom is apparently haunted by silk and song, but getting rid of those isn't really her objective

[terse mural]

is that useful for them? midwife was hyping them up so are they one of the few capable of accessing all their info? or were they just gonna be like "ayy we back and we got like uh theres a bunch of junk here only 400 rosaries"

[edgy stone]

Her objective at least at the start of the game is just to find out why she was captured

[tired robin]

Hornet isn't void, but Souperatorio (The ultra-secret boss in Silksong) IS VOID!!!

[cold hinge]

in the new steamdb stuff, we get a line where hornet says "Then I shall seek their Citadel. If these veiled bugs would go to such lengths to bring me here, I intend to find out why."

[tired robin]

(joke)

[edgy stone]

Then I shall seek their Citadel. If these veiled bugs would go to such lengths to bring me here, I intend to find out why

Fuck you already sent it

[tired robin]

It's like it's some king of SILKSONG...

[light tendon]

Yk whats really nice is that the story of silksong does not seem as linear as hollow knights.

[lapis creek]

i think a long time ago they may have had some use for that information and hornet can just find the eggs lying around in places where they would have been examined

[cold hinge]

heheheh

[lapis creek]

of course that assumes void is important, which... maybe?

[light tendon]

When you play as the knight everything you do is with the same objective in mind but with hornet it looks like her goals keep changing

[cold hinge]

https://tenor.com/view/say-that-again-gif-968943876633031890

[tired robin]

stands on top of chair while eating some soup

[lapis creek]

it would work really nicely if void really was a naturally occurring byproduct of regrets and you needed to understand its nature

but idk if they want to go that way

[midnight zinc]

I mean any advanced society might be curious about what past civilizations wrote and want to study them, arcane egg are inherently valuable as ancient relics. Lemm isn’t the only person in the whole world who’d be interested in old junk.

[cold hinge]

how much does hornet know about void? she clearly knows that the knight is made of it, and she isn't, but other than that does she know anything?

[tired robin]

I can't tell if this is reasonable or insane

[midnight zinc]

Lowkey both

[spark valve]

Well that’s not really true of the knight but sure

Hornet doesn’t start with a goal other than figure out why she’s there

[lapis creek]

yeah but this is assuming the eggs were brought in from hallownest, not native to pharloom

[cold hinge]

another thing, if the weavers created the seals of binding, did they create the seal on the cage that hornet's in at the start of the game? maybe the weavers needed hornet for something so they sent people back to hallownest to bring her to pharloom?

[midnight zinc]

Okay well unless I’m missing something the eggs are made by the AC, which we have no current reason to believe was ever in a far off land like Pharloom. They originated in the land that became Hallownest and only managed to control the in game region.

[wanton eagle]

She's seen the abyss if even from a distance, she seems somewhat aware of what the pale king was doing with it given she understood that the knight was a vessel for containing the radiance, she's fought other vessels so she's definitely come across it a few times outside of the knight

[lapis creek]

yeah, unless we take the presence of eggs in pharloom to mean they were there too, which isn't necessarily true

[midnight zinc]

I guess nothing’s off the table, but I do like the theory that the weavers took them. Or hell, some other group or character that came to Pharloom. The number of travelers that came to explore Hallownest from elsewhere implies it’s somewhat infamous in the world of HK, at least to surrounding kingdoms or societies. It’s entirely possible that other groups or individuals like Lemm or Cornifer came to explore Hallownest, found some eggs, and took them back to Pharloom.

Then again they’d probably all be collected into one place, and I’m assuming they’re gonna be scattered across the map like in HK so who knows

[lapis creek]

i just dont really know what this implies about the void

[lapis creek]

could be split between weavers citadel caste and some other scholarly individuals like the seer

[wanton eagle]

They could be found in like, rich people's houses or in shrines or something? They'd still be spread out but also retain their symbol of importance based on where they're found

[midnight reef]

Hey Tammo, stupid idea time
Hornet, as seen in the Moss Grotto, can bind to heal her shell- but it clearly doesnt heal her entirely
Was curious if all it can do for her is mend her shell, rather than properly healing her like the Knight Focusing could
Though after watching BlueSR's most recent video Im more thinking is that shes just extremely tired and weak, regardless of the condition of her shell

[vivid kernel]

this guy doesnt appear

[midnight zinc]

The lame answer is “we’re gonna find out soon”, but what it could imply, as you said, that the AC was far more widespread than we thought

[sinful nimbus]

Focus also doesn't heal TK entirely

[midnight reef]

The Knight doesnt really show it, at least

[spark valve]

We know her time in the cage affected her powers considerably, I don’t see why being unable to fully heal is a necessary thing to posit

That’s not physical injury that makes her collapse in moss grotto

[midnight zinc]

“No bug has ever laid claim to this whole. Even the beasts knew their limits and bound their realm at Nest's edge.
It is the ancient caste that made attempt at such vast rule. Hallownest's ruin reflects well those fared attempts.”

This definitely implies they only tried to lay claim to the land that became Hallownest and the surrounding areas, but if you bend and twist it, it could mean the world at large.

[midnight reef]

yeah, its really not, it was an idea after seeing Hornet struggle in the Gamescon demo, before coming to the conclusion that the time in the cage probably just fucked her up heavily

[lapis creek]

alternatively the information in the arcane eggs is uniquely valuable to the people of pharloom not as ancient history of their own land but for insight into the nature of the void

[midnight reef]

at the very least, shes clearly not in any state to be fighting through the Moss Grotto

[midnight zinc]

But then that begs the question of why they’re interested in it, aka to what extent is it present in Pharloom? Which is essentially your question about its role in the game all over again.

[lapis creek]

yeah

i guess it is an interesting alternative to the ac having once conquered pharloom

[lusty dirge]

How long did this channel even exist?

[gentle aspen]

They could’ve just like

both used arcane eggs

Convergent evolution type shit

[lapis creek]

thats the dream but like be real joker they look exactly the same

[midnight reef]

There are many, many ways to carve rocks

But I must ask, whats all the arcance egg talk about, exactly

[terse mural]

ok now the EVIL (and therefore true) hypothesis i just thought of is that when the ancient civilization was declining some of them headed out into faraway lands and the reason arcane eggs are still being used is because their descendants still live to this day as the great Recent Civilization im expecting an award from tc soon for figuring it all out immediately

[midnight reef]

Seems this convo has been going for a long, long while

[spark valve]

Just has to last like 12 more days

[lapis creek]

there were some spoilers in steamdb

[midnight reef]

Hey, first big lore argument after we got a release date!

[midnight reef]

yeah, namely the everbloom, was one of the others an arcane egg?

[lapis creek]

yes

[midnight reef]

Are they all just HK related? Is there a chance that just it- they're all just HK references?

[spark valve]

No

[pseudo lily]

Nope. First three are completely new.

[terse mural]

soul totems are outdated they realized. actually it was them who figured out to be using silk everywhere they did everything and are responsible for all the rest

[midnight reef]

please, do show

[spark valve]

They have new sprites too

[pseudo lily]

Ah geez I don’t have it rn gimme a sec

[lapis creek]

i think the funniest part of the recent marketing is that pharloom's folly has never been mentioned in #sk-lore until right now

[midnight reef]

yeah, I've seen the everbloom sprite

nice that it got a name, also XD

[lapis creek]

the discourse has shifted so heavily toward void

[midnight reef]

Im... kinda sad they're bringing back void, to be honest
Least, thats what it appears

[spark valve]

Pharloom’s folly has been talked about before extensively void not so much (in context of ss)

[pseudo lily]

Right here #sk-lore message

[midnight reef]

Depends on how they do it, at least

[sinful nimbus]

Basedbasedbasedbased

[lapis creek]

does the weaver effigy necessarily imply worship or could it also be something they burned

[midnight reef]

as far as it seems, the Weavers were hunted in Pharloom

[spark valve]

It doesn’t look flammable

[midnight reef]

its just it being described as a effigy

which are occasionally burned to make a point

[spark valve]

Effigies can be burned but it being an effigy doesn’t mean it is burned

[lapis creek]

anything can be flammable if you throw it into lava

[midnight reef]

yeah

[lapis creek]

(that is not how it works)

[pseudo lily]

I feel like I’m the outlier here. What do you see as the issue with void returning? I’d understand not liking if it was a major plot point like in HK, but it really doesn’t seem that way here.

[midnight reef]

it really will depend on how its done

[pseudo lily]

I feel like that could be said about everything in Silksong. New, old, whatever.

[midnight reef]

I was kinda hoping for Silksong to do new things, introduce new sources of power

[sinful nimbus]

It doesn't matter how its done TC has lost their touch and have gone to DEI slop (The D stands for Darkness)

[midnight reef]

In the end, it really depends on how its done

[lapis creek]

they almost certainly will

[pseudo lily]

I mean, we know they are in the form of Silk, and probably Song.

[midnight reef]

yeah

[lapis creek]

ik what you mean but theres still hope

[sinful nimbus]

Silk is technically repackaged soul 🥱

and song is silk

[midnight reef]

But Hollow Knight really focused on Voids' struggle against the light, through the Vessels fight with the Radience

[sinful nimbus]

Therefore its Hollow Knight: Soul (Featuring Void)

In all seriousness its just a minor mistake really

[midnight reef]

But in the end- its a Hollow Knight game- Im not going to complaign if we get more info on void and its uses

[pseudo lily]

So we’re not going to stone Team Cherry to death?

[sinful nimbus]

I'm still planning on that because of ETV

[midnight reef]

it would make sense- I doubt the well we see is all the void there is, and I doubt the Pale King is the only being who'd try to control it

[sinful nimbus]

I've been saying this for years this is just the rice that tips the scale

[midnight reef]

Im still going with Sealed Siblings being the true ending ;3

[pseudo lily]

Here’s my hot take of the night: I really don’t see why EtV is so hated.

[sinful nimbus]

Well its so ridiculously detached from the themes of HK you don't even need to kill the dreamers or... fight THK in the Black Egg

[pseudo lily]

Like, to me it almost felt like a sort of Faustian bargain. You take this alternate path that seems to solve everything, and end up with what might be a worse situation than before. It’s very ambiguous.

[midnight reef]

I think that people didnt like that its so unexplained, espeically what in the heck happened to the Shade Lord

[sinful nimbus]

Heck there's no natural explanation for why you shouldn't be able to do P5 without Void Heart like there is in DNM

There's a magic unexplained gate that blocks you for reasons

[midnight reef]

That and it does avoid alot of the naritive power of Dream No More

Name the lack of all the Siblings- I really missed that detail in ETV

[pseudo lily]

I think DNM is definitely the most narratively satisfying ending

[midnight reef]

The Siblings rising with the Night and the Void is really really cool

and then both the Hollow Knight and Knight killing the Radience is really fucking cool

[sinful nimbus]

It is which begs the question of why TC decided to reskin it and remove all the good bits

[foggy fractal]

that scene where the shades curl up and dissapear plus the music... chefs kiss...

[terse wadi]

You think we'll ever get context on Godseekers gods (the original ones)

[sinful nimbus]

and its not lore but P5 really sucks

[midnight reef]

Nah, Godseekers are likely not returning

[pseudo lily]

My guess is they felt like they couldn’t have an all boss gauntlet without Radiance, and they felt like they couldn’t fight Radiance without it being an ending, and they didn’t want to just do DNM again.

[midnight reef]

yeah

[sinful nimbus]

Probably

[pseudo lily]

Is it because of the backloaded difficulty? Or something different?

[terse wadi]

I more meant their land of origin, idrc if they come back or not but the Gods of rain and thunder sound cool

[sinful nimbus]

But I hold the belief that all boss gauntlets suck

[sinful nimbus]

Its a slog where you mostly steamroll early game bosses with lategame gear

[midnight reef]

Their gods are uh, toast

[pseudo lily]

I think they’re best done from a menu.

[terse wadi]

probably

[midnight reef]

They're very very dead
thats why the godseakers left, and found Hallownest

[terse wadi]

I still want the lore

[foggy fractal]

there is no lore.

[midnight reef]

I do like the narrative integration of the boss gauntlets- overall I do like Godhome

[real crater]

We might get their lore in like books and tablet

[terse wadi]

that' be cool

[midnight reef]

Some of the lore is really annoying, looking at you fucking the definition of "god" in Hollow Knight...

it can mean god, as in the Pale Beings, Radience, and Nightmare Heart, or god, as in just a more powerful bug

[severe siren]

Uncanny casually seeing oldgens assembling nonchalantly

[midnight reef]

Fool!

[foggy fractal]

a giant one....

[midnight reef]

Where map ;3
TC helped you out!

[foggy fractal]

whos also an enemy.......

[severe siren]

I genuinely got a good bit correct

[sinful nimbus]

Everyone is here

[severe siren]

But most of it was a given anyway

[terse wadi]

There are no gods only "higher beings"

[midnight reef]

Yeah, the only part that I kinda didnt expect is that the Marrow is a proper area

[real crater]

Also phantom is not a kitsune

[severe siren]

Yeah me neither

[foggy fractal]

phantom is a.... phantom ?

[sinful nimbus]

Why

[severe siren]

I was expecting like maybe 3 rooms and a boss room

[spark valve]

there had to be a weird mashup between bonebottom and deep docks, ig may as well call it marrow

[terse wadi]

I've been gone since 2023 so idk anymore

[pseudo lily]

I feel like unless Bill comes back, nothing TC does with void will ruin the lore for me.

[real crater]

Phantom has like a crown oh phantoms head it's like a ruler of something

[sinful nimbus]

-2 furry tails
-Probably supernatural
-Possibly undergoing metamorphosis
-Assuming the shape of Hornet/Lace
Phantom is a kitsune

[midnight reef]

which is also used to refer to gods, as in the Pale Beings, Raidence, and Nightmare Heart, or to intelligent bugs.

[spark valve]

phantom is molting

[real crater]

Where did u get assuming the shape of hornet and lace

[sinful nimbus]

Into a new form

Like kitsunes

[terse wadi]

imo you needd a domain to be a "god" in Hollow knight

[real crater]

Also kitsunes are tricksters fundamental to being a kitsune is being a trickster

[severe siren]

We dont talk about godhome and especially hall of gods

[terse wadi]

I don't just mean physical

[midnight reef]

the fuck is Gruz Mothers domain?

[sinful nimbus]

The body shape is similar to lace the head shape is similar to Hornet. This ties into how Kitsunes assume the form of beautiful women

[midnight reef]

an old temple to the Pale King, White Lady, and Hollow Knight?

[vivid kernel]

Wherever is a gruz

[severe siren]

But godseekers’ definition of “god” isnt actually “god” they just call everything that atp

[foggy fractal]

her arena and thats it

[midnight reef]

wait no, those got removed

sorry thinking of the old old arena spites

[vivid kernel]

The watcher call everybody a god

[real crater]

It's just everything tc wanted in a boss gauntlet got called a "god"

[terse wadi]

A vast majority of true HB have created life or done something physically impossible for normal bugs

[midnight reef]

What did Vengfly King do?

[severe siren]

Manifest vengeflies

[vivid kernel]

Hurt the god zote

[midnight reef]

Grow bigger than normal Vengflys? Try to eat Zote?

[pseudo lily]

Killed zote

[real crater]

Not even fly properly??

[terse wadi]

HOG is not gods Godseeker just loco

[spark valve]

hb are actual deities they have crazy magic powers yes

if they didn't they wouldn't really be hbs

[midnight reef]

or intelligent bugs

[vivid kernel]

Nop

[midnight reef]

as in the whole "higher beings, these words are for you alone" in Kings Pass

[pseudo lily]

Well that’s just PK glazing his subjects

[midnight reef]

They're not refering to just Higher Beings as it overlaps to bugs

[terse wadi]

my point exactly

Creationism or bullshit powers

[real crater]

Why does the channel with 7 people talking have a 10s slowmode?

[sinful nimbus]

Mods hate us

[midnight reef]

funni

[terse wadi]

I think that's the standard

[spark valve]

the kicker is ss-disc is fucked and has only 5 seconds

[foggy fractal]

admins hate us !

[sinful nimbus]

why does the transphobe channel get 5 seconds smh

[real crater]

We need a 0s slowmode and give ss disc a 6hr

[terse wadi]

That shit is going up to 20 on release

[spark valve]

it should go there now but I digress

[foggy fractal]

no no they'll just migrate here

[terse wadi]

It is what it is

[real crater]

We won't allow them to

[terse wadi]

Ngl, SS discussion is turning into HK discussion now that it's coming out

Full of braindead spam

[sinful nimbus]

insufferable and elitist? 😔

[sinful nimbus]

Okay but gncb was funny

[midnight reef]

I perfered old SS-disc...

[terse wadi]

I suppose that works too

[pseudo lily]

Elaborate?

[terse wadi]

We all do

[dull junco]

Silk song

[midnight reef]

but thats in the past now, now I get here instead where I can debate Silksong lore!

[pseudo lily]

Also what is gncb

[sinful nimbus]

there's been an uptick in transphobes... newgens I tell ya

[sinful nimbus]

Good night cute boys hk-disc used to post that like every minute

[midnight reef]

Watch there be trans representation in Silksong

[foggy fractal]

let me do the ol switcheroo to get our slowmodes switched !

[pseudo lily]

You’d think the server icon would flush them out

[terse wadi]

Trobbio

[midnight reef]

Would be hilarious

[foggy fractal]

BOOM WLWLWLW PSHPSHSPSH BOOOOOOOOM
did it work

testing

[pseudo lily]

Dammit andy

[foggy fractal]

it didn't work

[terse wadi]

I'd throw out a meme wizard gif but they aren't allowed here

[foggy fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/walks-away-sad-leave-tom-and-jerry-gif-16877258

mods please see this I wanted my bit to work

[flat totem]

anybody dig the theory of hornet being captured by the veiled bugs because they want her to become the savior and monarch of pharloom-- since she's a wyrm?

or is this a crap theory

[spark valve]

if they wanted her to be their ruler they wouldn't try to kill her

[real crater]

Maybe they want a undead?? ruler

[spark valve]

then they would've killed her in the cage

[real crater]

Maybe the undead power need a ceremony in pharloom?????

[terse warren]

The two points you just made kinda contradict each other though?

"No because they try to kill her" and "No because they didn't try to kill her"

[spark valve]

if they wanted her as a ruler (barring weird made up stuff )they would not kill her
if you stipulate that they want her corpse as a ruler, they would kill her

[pseudo lily]

Do we know they’re trying to kill her? From Lace’s dialogue (in the 2019 demo, maybe it changed), she implied that her killing Hornet right there would hurt the Citadel bugs’ plans.

[spark valve]

they're sure using lethal force

[real crater]

Maybe they just wanted hornet to play tag with them?

[runic musk]

Could also imply they want her alive for the moment.

[lapis creek]

if it werent for the death animation id say theyre just trying to incapacitate her and recover her body from the cocoon

because capturing her would otherwise be impossible

[midnight reef]

I assumed they wanted her either for her silk, her relation to the Pale King (potential for spellcasting/soul manipulation?), or now we have seen the badges maybe her knowledge of void/relation to the vessel project?

[spark valve]

sure plenty of plausible reasons

to rule over them.... doesn't really seem like one

[midnight reef]

Yeah, no

[real crater]

A mean we are not gonna guess the reason atleast I hope so

[flat hearth]

They want her silk song no?

[midnight reef]

we dont really know, but thats part of my guess

[flat hearth]

They are jealous of her smooth silky voice and it's tones

[lapis creek]

i could still see this being the case but its definitely not yet obvious from what we've seen that she would survive

[real crater]

I would guess considering its tc we may get a reason we can't even guess because it's not even shown to us

[lapis creek]

i got the impression that lace and hornet's defeat animations are similar is this true

[flat hearth]

It's pretty interesting how little we actually know about this game, I'm sure theres gonna be soooo much to learn and explore

My guess is majority of the plot hasn't been shown

[royal fjord]

Because she’s the daughter of the pale king, a wyrm who’s race is always mentioned with seemingly godhood levels of impact- I believe they captured her to liek steal her power?

[real crater]

I mean we basically know nothing about the plot except hornets wants to ascend to the peak

[flat hearth]

It's a reasonable assumption

[midnight reef]

I refuse to believe that the black smoke/dust coming out of Hornets cocoon after death is void, like seen with the Knight's Shade

[royal fjord]

But hornets little message on her steam card seems to imply a seemingly different more tangible thing that lies within pharloom

[real crater]

It's most likely her molting

That was the theory ss-lore settled on when this channel was opened

[midnight reef]

yeah, that I like

[flat hearth]

Oh I didn't see messages ont he cards, howd you find that?

[midnight reef]

old shell fragments

[real crater]

Hornet is not void hornet is black cause it's easy to draw/animate

[royal fjord]

Dssn

[pseudo lily]

I’d dismiss it purely on the basis of void never really being dusty/flaky. It’s always portrayed as being very liquid.

[royal fjord]

It’s just a way to transition the screen

[real crater]

Void is like gooey jello consistency

[midnight reef]

no no, theres a part after the screen transition, on breaking the cacoon

[flat hearth]

I mean I think it's still accurate, they brought here there and she doesn't know wny and she wants to find out

[midnight reef]

a black powder falls out've it

[real crater]

Could it be tabacoo

[royal fjord]

yeah

[real crater]

Is hornet taking tabacoo????? Cause that ain't gonna fly

[lapis creek]

tbf whatever they wanted her for, if they are trying to kill her it's probably an indication that they gave up on their mission once she escaped and it became impossible to control her

[spark valve]

sure

doesn't seem very consistent with the ruler thing

[lapis creek]

the sudden switch to murder needs to be explained this way regardless of why they wanted her, if they wanted her alive

[real crater]

Maybe they will try to make zote their ruler??

[spark valve]

sure, which also means what they want her for isn't vital

[lapis creek]

unless it's a matter of importance, like taking her alive is a take it or leave it type thing

yeah that would also make sense youre right

[real crater]

Maybe they were on a time crunch and now arent on time and are like getting revenge??

[lapis creek]

idk that they need her to be their ruler

[pseudo lily]

Yeah, void has never been depicted like that.

[real crater]

Is this a theory or is this the reason they want hornet

[lapis creek]

but it does bring up the interesting point that if she has free will and she's resisting she wouldnt be a reliable ruler anyway. like she would just leave

it's a theory someone brought up

[spark valve]

theory is
generous

[midnight reef]

vauge idea

[lapis creek]

im in a generous mood

[real crater]

Can I get like a bajillion dollars then

[raven condor]

Looks like that when PV dies

Ehhh nvm

[real crater]

No it doesnt

[pseudo lily]

Not really. PV’s death particles are all uniformly round. Hornet’s seem much more jagged and uneven.

[real crater]

Hornet seems like chips being broken

[pseudo lily]

Plus, there’s already a massive pile of evidence as to why Hornet isn’t void.

[real crater]

Nothing establishes hornet isn't void more than people who say hornet is void and contradict their own statements

[spark valve]

one thing does, when she says it explicitly

[real crater]

That's like cheating u are using facts and logic

[raven condor]

Oh no she def isn’t void. I do like the idea that it is regret given form like jiji talks of, just trapped due to pharlooms or hornets influence

[edgy stone]

I dont think hornet is void, but stuff turning into void is still possible

[pseudo lily]

More likely it’s just a dubiously canon way to explain how Hornet gets her rosaries back after death.

[edgy stone]

It's unlikely but dony know enough about the void to make a concrete conclusion

[crystal marsh]

respawning probably won't be canon in SS

[pseudo lily]

Almost certainly

It wasn’t even really canon to HK

[real crater]

Respawning shouldn't be a mechanic imo all saves should be on silksoul

[raven condor]

Please for the love of god give us a boss rush. It doesn’t need lore, just do it

[edgy stone]

Give me a day and I will create the most batshit theory ever

I think I have cat scratch fever but the delirium hasn't kicked in yet, but when It does a masterpiece will bs created

The main focus will be on hornet is void

[lunar crest]

||Phantom is Hornet's Lover||

[severe siren]

I shall now be announcing my departure from this server until post-skong

[real crater]

No we will get a wholesome hornet game where they go fishing together do chores some shopping with a sheo and nailsmith dlc

[lunar crest]

3:

I'll miss you, GEF,,,

[real crater]

Bye gef and hi to miniscule gaming

[severe siren]

In case anything else gets revealed and also cause time will fly a lot faster when im not checking this chat daily

[lunar crest]

Ngl I might ignore the server until post Skong too,,,

[severe siren]

Steam badges and trading cards were my limit i cant go any further beyond that

The implications that come from those are kinda crazy

Mostly former

Anyway im gone

[spark valve]

damn

[real crater]

We are bleeding

[carmine blade]

nooo I missed GEF

[real crater]

He mighhhhhhht be back

[pseudo geyser]

i wonder which of the two drops Hornet fell from. One is supposed to lead into the Marrow, the other is going into Shellwood.

[carmine blade]

They always return. But I get wanting to play the game without spoilers

[carmine blade]

Moss grotto one.

[pseudo geyser]

im just tryna think where they were going to originally and then the height of the drop based off of that. Looks like the one way above has a hole where a bridge is supposed to be.

actually yea that aligns perfectly

[surreal stump]

i cant imagine they WOULDN'T do a boss rush mode like godhome again, especially with how well received that was! i wouldnt care if there was a lore reason or not either, but knowing team cherry there definitely will be one,,, i think it would be really interesting to see hornets reaction to the godseekers, if thats something they choose to bring back ^_^

[crystal marsh]

"well-received" is pushing it

[runic musk]

I wouldnt mind the absense of a boss rush.

[surreal stump]

wait it is? i always thought the general consensus was that it was good and most people liked it

[runic musk]

If anything I at least do want some way to replay bosses without needing to do a new save.

Especially if theres gonna be 40+

[terse mural]

suuuurely it was part of the following 5 years

[surreal stump]

then again majority of my interactions with hollow knight community over the 6 years has stayed more on the art side of things 😓 take what i say about general reception with a heavy bucket of salt lol

[mighty oyster]

We’re always ready XD

[carmine blade]

Godhome was whelming

[feral thistle]

Godhome is peak vro idk what the hates about

[raven condor]

I thought it was received rather poorly to begin with, however it gained incredible traction.

[carmine blade]

Honestly its P5 that I dislike the most. Majority of HKs bosses arent good enough for me to want to fight them over and over. But I also suck so theres that

[raven condor]

True, but I just love the bosses, and I hope a hall of gods can be made, without TC being discouraged to make one

[runic musk]

The main pantheons were fine its just shoving every single boss into one, many of which are basically filler, tend to make it tedious.

[carmine blade]

Oh yeah. A way to refight bosses would be fun.

[runic musk]

Like it makes sense to have a boss rush that has every single boss but that doesnt dodge that lol.

[raven condor]

Also, is there a lore reason as to why Silksong is so much more vibrant than hollowknight, like goddamn

[carmine blade]

Bigger budget. Tc could afford colours

[raven condor]

Could afford the ink

[runic musk]

Funny as that is I'm pretty sure its because one is supposed to have more life while the other is intentionally dull lol

[raven condor]

I will say it will be nice getting away from the infection

Always wanted more mantis lord and dung defender type fights, which we did get with the nail masters in godhome, but this is like crazy amounts of content

[feral thistle]

Hallownest is dead kingdom, sad and gloomy, but Pharloom is still alive and kicking

[blissful harbor]

biggest reason imo

[raven condor]

Silksong is sad, how could it not be, they killed Dave.

[carmine blade]

I will also say. Maybe the hk examples arent the best sence theyre all from the same area

[spring nexus]

No it's Holwing Cliffs, Forgotten Crossroads, Deepnest and then Dirtmouth

[blissful harbor]

well greenpath and moss grotto are also very different
gloomy and bright

[raven condor]

Wrong mi amigo, howling cliffs, dirtmouth, crossroads, and Deepnest

I will say I was cherry picking perhaps

[spring nexus]

But yeah could have put like Crystal peak and greenpath

[carmine blade]

Man. Its been a while. I thought it was all crossroads lol

[spring nexus]

Or the hive

There IS vibrancy in HK just less

[carmine blade]

Still leading the witness my honor

[raven condor]

Here is a more reasonable comparison, however this is the absolute craziest hollowknight gets, while it seems average for Silksong.

[runic musk]

Just me or is the background details more apparent in the HK ones than the Silksong ones

[raven condor]

Absolutely, it will take some time to get used to

[runic musk]

Hoping its just because of what's shown so far and there will be some areas with great detail in the background (not to imply there isnt any shown here already)

[blissful harbor]

pray the blur is adjustable

[raven condor]

Agreed, majorly changed all backgrounds to be blurry for all areas we’ve seen, however this dudes background gives me hope

[runic musk]

I keep forgetting theres gonna be more duo fights this time around I'm really interested in seeing how they play out

I've played a fair few games handle duo fights really well and some its

Questionable.

[raven condor]

Seems like an ad and not a duo fight

HK does them fantastically in my opinion. Oro and mato, mantis lords, watcher knights, god tamer, all solid stuff

Silksong duos seem baller

[runic musk]

God Tamer is just okay

I would like it better if the Tamer didnt forfeit the fight though.

[raven condor]

If okay is the worst you do in a game with like seven duo bosses, you have won at life

[raven condor]

True, but they buffed the beast in godhome to reflect a regular boss healthbar, how shit would it feel to die to godtamer and have to re fight literally all of C3

[runic musk]

should've allowed Watcher Knights to not be capped let me fight all of them at once for mayhem.

[raven condor]

Hide five other chandelier strings and the fight would be perfect. 👌

[runic musk]

Anyway if most of the 2 enemy stuff shown in the trailer are merely just common enemies and not bosses i'd be surprised.

[opal beacon]

Who is this?

[naive tinsel]

looks a bit like the fleas in colour tbh. eyes remind me of the weavers (which did return to pharloom if im not mistaken but that doesnt look like a weaver) so for now, unsure

[opal beacon]

Mournful creature tasked alone to expel the Citadel's choking refuse. Their talent with a longpin is unmatched - description. Lower body like Lace, lower head like Hornet, upper head like pale king but void and a double fluffy tail, what is this

[wanton eagle]

My guess has been shape shifter and that's why they head is mostly unformed aside from the part that looks like Hornet

[naive tinsel]

they look really cool, cant wait to find out whatever they are

[hazy hemlock]

not this again

[real crater]

Man we need some banned theories already?

Sure buddy

Literally everything

[hazy hemlock]

it’s ridiculous

[real crater]

First of all the entity after godhome ending is called shade lord

And it's only job is to kill radiance why would it take over a wyrm corpse

And secondly how would it pilot the corpse its not a mecha

W ragebait I fell for it

[hazy hemlock]

i had my suspicions and still took the bait it’s so over

listen some people have some genuinely moronic theories

[real crater]

Yeah no one can be this delusional

[opal beacon]

His name is not confirmed

[real crater]

Isn't that what the community calls the entity

[opal beacon]

Yes

It doesn't have name

But community have different names for him : shade lord, void entity

Void entity sounds cooler for me

Shade lord name is kinda boring

[sand jay]

that new 'phantom' charecter i the silksong steam items page i feel like will be related to void, im rlly interested to see void in silksong, w/ arcane eggs, the abyss maybe(the release date loocked like it was in the abyss (all we had to do was to swin in the void to find it 😭 ))

[opal beacon]

Arcane eggs sprite is different from the first game

Oh

Its maybe Weaver shrines

By the way, what are these

[real crater]

We might not know about these

These might just be new things

[quartz salmon]

they look like

roots or spider legs maybe

or maybe theyre just gigantic foundations for the citadel lodged in different places of Pharloom

who knows

[pseudo geyser]

someone suggested they're the endings of the pipes that lead to the citadel

like these things in the background

[hazy hemlock]

yeah we’ve seen that the pipes taper off in places so i’m guessing that’s what those things on the map are

[pseudo geyser]

i personally think it's where the new crests are gained too, or those silk skills. Either or

[high violet]

I wonder why they're like floating, broken off and sometimes chopped between different parts of the map

[opal beacon]

Yeah

[real crater]

They might be attached to the ceiling in the other 2

[pseudo geyser]

I'm wondering if these factions are fully integrated as a part of Pharloom's borders, or exist as independent nations with some special arrangements (like The Hive or Deepnest in HK)

[marsh wagon]

Bapanada

[young pond]

I think there is 100%

[dusk birch]

thats the tribe of silk and the tribe of song, you need to defeat both of them to unlock the silksong, which then you use to unlock the final boss room, then the final boss is called "The Silksong"

[pseudo geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/walter-walter-white-walter-white-absolute-cinema-white-walter-absolute-gif-10929974052418095046

[marsh wagon]

Why we play as hornet

[cosmic wedge]

Id say they're different. The ants and their queen will probably still be found near bone bottom or an area like it, while the other faction will be seen in coral forest. Looking at the map, the 2 areas are pretty far anyway. They dont share much besides the red color.

[haughty tide]

guys will holllownest will be in silksong

in the trailer i noticed that there a place look like the entrance of dirtmouth in the forggoten crossread

[real crater]

No only pharloom

[sly skiff]

How far is pharloom from hallownest? Are they neighbors or very far apart?

[real crater]

We don't know

[midnight zinc]

Pharloom is right on top of Hallownest

[half creek]

dude thats a good theory

[midnight zinc]

Thanks, thought of it myself

[shadow spoke]

Judging from the fact that Hornet can not teleport, and only use her webs to travel faster than a normal walking being I suppose it's pretty nearby. But I can't say for certain

[feral thistle]

Absolute silknema

[haughty tide]

will i fight ghost in silksong?

i think ghost was having some feelings too

[feral thistle]

Def not

[eternal gazelle]

Every hollow knight ending has the knight dead, imprisoned, or transformed

[wraith mango]

From steam page "Vanquish over 40 legendary bosses! Battle fabled heroes and fallen kings in epic combat to decide the kingdom's fate." I wonder who those kings might be 🤔 Pale king reborn and trying to take over the Pharloom?

I wonder is it possible that his "corps" in white palace was just an empty husk and he escaped the doomed kingdom of Hallownest.

[real crater]

No the kings of pharloom

[wraith mango]

If Pale King was around that could explain why Hornet was kidnapped. He might have ordered it to bring her to him🤔

[sly skiff]

Each region of the map could be a kingdom rather than just a biome like in hollow knight

[sly skiff]

Why would the pale king be relevant here

[wraith mango]

Steam page talks about fallen kings and Pale king is one fallen king we know about

[sly skiff]

Why wouldnt it just be pharloom’s kings

This is like saying “40 bosses, mantis lords are a boss in hollow knight so they’ll be in silksong”

[wraith mango]

Totally could be but I am just theorising if that is also possibility