Rocket Modules & Space Stations.

[dawn cairn]

not in any beta

[dawn cairn]

finally, small world selector

[pine oasis]

It’s OP

[chrome grail]

this is beautiful i can finally make planets where my dupes just live in rocket modules readable

[dawn cairn]

especially with the change that makes habitat interior radiation dependant on exterior space radiation

[manic yew]

suggestions for a plasma engine: engine power/speed superior to hydrogen engine or same power/speed but eliminates the need for liquid fuel tank. requires new "gas" element named "plasma". adds a "boiling point" to an existing gas, say hydrogen, to "boil" hydrogen into plasma. (there's no existing gas that boils into another gas, but there is an example of liquids that do this in crude oil->petrol). like hydrogen engine, the plasma engine emits 2 exhausts; 1 heat and 1 really hot gas. both should be more difficult to manage than hydrogen engine.

[pine oasis]

Interesting. How would you heat something that hot with existing overheat temperatures though?

[manic yew]

i would suggest picking a "boiling point" temp would enable players to collect the plasma with a thermium gas pump, but not be able to use steel. (or at least not without some clever trickery)

[prime hedge]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2915321826
There is a mod called helium Reborn and that's have similar idea to change gas element based on exposure to other things.

There is also a unused gas element called synthetic gas, which is made via hydrogen & coal, could potentially made to plasma

[dawn cairn]

or just add in new elements..

[prime hedge]

🤣ukie

[chrome grail]

you do realise that lead volcanoes dont exist

[prime hedge]

to replace wire form other metal volcano..... there is tone of lead could be mined and only a scratch is need to make battery

[dawn cairn]

abysalite is also non renewable yet its used in tuning

[pine oasis]

Yeah but it’s the only thing abysalite is used in, so it’s basically infinite

[dawn cairn]

insulation

[pine oasis]

oh

Let’s be honest…. Who wants to make insulation? Resin takes so long to get! And so many calories at that.

I know there are many uses for it. But it takes a lot of work to get, and to make set ups for, and make food to feed the chungus tree

[stable basin]

You mean propane?

[stable basin]

Chungus tree 💀

[chrome grail]

ok this is just looking from tni on an rad ocean seed and the only source of lead is desolands and it has about 588.6 tons of lead and that same planet has 1077 tons of abysalite

[prime hedge]

Enough to run cycle 10k

[willow umbra]

People who want to be as efficient as possible

[stable basin]

There are places with little natural energy available, so sometimes you have to be efficient

[willow umbra]

I actually have too much natural energy

Desolamds is friggin hot

Maybe if we could use heat to power a rocket directly?

[hardy forge]

wut

[stable basin]

You... understand how rockets work, right?

[willow umbra]

I do

I just had a stupid idea

[chrome grail]

btw is the ambient radiation change something i can enable or disable? as an hardcore rtg fan i dont really want the radiation generated by it affecting the dupes

[manic yew]

when you create a new game there's a game setting to control how badly radiation impacts your dupes. select "Nuke-proof" if you want 0 radiation impact on your dupes.

[chrome grail]

i dont do that i was asking if the radiation changes he made were togglable

plus wheres the fun in making stuff easy

[dawn cairn]

move the generator to a position not directly below the habitat ? (the central bottom cell of the habitat checks the radiation)

[chrome grail]

iirc the range of the radiation is about 5 tiles and so i guess its fine

[dawn cairn]

a small fix for the top ports

[sour magnet]

Any news on space stations?

[dawn cairn]

no.

[pine oasis]

sad

[chrome grail]

neutronium splinters now?

[sour magnet]

sad.

[sour magnet]

what

[chrome grail]

yep

its there

might be hidden now but idk i update like once every week

[dawn cairn]

its dust+ alloy

but unused atm

[prime hedge]

An idea take on ion thruster module. give -5 burden. not a engine but a module

[willow umbra]

Ion engine sounds more interesting ngl

[prime hedge]

im afraid if there is tooo many engine type

just some new ideas come to mind

[dawn cairn]

the art level of these concepts is insane o.o

[prime hedge]

I'm glad that you like it 😊 took me some time on wiki understanding the concept lulz

[manic yew]

@prime hedge looks great! suggestion: require thermium in its construction material

[chrome grail]

so its like an solid booster?

[dawn cairn]

since there isnt a solid booster implementation in Spaced out, it comes out at how I implement that

I have some ideas for different types of implementation, but atm I'm focussing on finishing and releasing 2.5

[chrome grail]

an space elevator could actually be an engine that consumes power but only has 2 tiles of range: enough to get to orbit and back

[dawn cairn]

no

[chrome grail]

an specialised building?

[dawn cairn]

current plans for space elevators will be functioning somewhat similar to supply teleporters

requiring you to construct top+ bottom part on the planet & on the station; then connecting both

but that wont come with 2.5

[chrome grail]

well anyway the extended spacefarer module appears in the rocket build menu before you even research it. i reloaded to see if it was an one time thing and when i opened the menu again it crashed

[hardy forge]

ooohhh a firm no

[prime hedge]

good morning. i have some new regarding the concept art. i try to get close as possibile to klei's style but i think something is off here

[prime hedge]

is it possibile to set a module class have no funtion but give -5 burden? nvm its a dumb question

[prime hedge]

i dont know, i havent had idea about game interaction for now

[dawn cairn]

I think it's missing the small imperfections

klei art often has tiny scratched on surfaces

[stable basin]

The Hydrogen Engine is pretty clean tho as I remember

[dawn cairn]

it isnt

see the black scratches

[prime hedge]

I'll adding details and glowing layer later. Tho Im think the bottom part gap glows on take off as if something is reacting inside 🤣

[sour magnet]

WOW

[dawn cairn]

also another thing thats a bit different is directional lighting, the module seems to have a light source on the right; kleis rocket modules dont have a directional light source involved in the shading

[prime hedge]

Noted

They have a bit but not much. Just explaining that the thing is has shiny surface

[dawn cairn]

kleis modules have shading at the outer border in order to display "roundness"

very visible on this gas tank, most modules have it less pronounced

overall its mostly mirrored

(shading in the center of the module varies)

[prime hedge]

I'm working on this rn

[dawn cairn]

(I just noticed, Klei also doesnt use any brushes with texture)

like what I assume is some sort of pencil brush here

[prime hedge]

Yeah look closely they are doing thing like doddles

[dawn cairn]

from what Aki told me, the klei line style can be created best with a very thin, standard brush (like 1px-4px, dependant on scale you draw at) and then going over a line a couple times

[prime hedge]

Oh that's the info I needed

[prime hedge]

I think basic layer is done. I'm planning to draw flame but I don't know much about animations stuff

[dawn cairn]

for a flame, you could look at how the hydrogen engine does it

[prime hedge]

im thinking about a blue-ish hue thats similar to it, respecting this

[sour magnet]

wow

[native temple]

Its great but thin lines are too pixely

[prime hedge]

oh no it's save as screenshot PNG for putting here on discord. Original file is heaver and line are natural

[native temple]

Also it would be better if it would be proportional. Like same distance between things

Like this

[dawn cairn]

rainbow specular

[prime hedge]

The idea is make something that's not 100% symmetric, although I understand ur concern thats it's might look whacky as if the gravity isn't centered. I could try to add part structure that could add this design

... perhaps need at least make the negative space symmetrical

[native temple]

It looks weird when its asymmetrical

[dawn cairn]

for the central "orb thing", that thing can be asymetrical without any problems, but the thrusters should be symmetrical or it might look weird

[stable basin]

Bruh

I thought you meant, like, the mini-canyons with bandages over them lmao

Yeah it could use some scratches, although it seems it would be shielded from micrometeoroids by the rest of the rocket
The engines are usually wider (and closer to the ground during landing/takeoff), and so they get scratched by random dust and stuff)

[dawn cairn]

that screen sometimes fails to update

btw

Update 2.5 is released on steam and github

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2837919908

Github Release:
https://github.com/Sgt-Imalas/Sgt_Imalas-Oni-Mods/releases/tag/v2.5.0_RocketryExpanded

[dawn cairn]

aaand I found a couple of race conditions while making screenshots........

welp those get a fix once the uploader works again

[clear elk]

solution: make warning note not to make screenshots while the mod is active

[stable basin]

That damn snowy weather

[prime hedge]

It's looks like a proper thingy now🤣

new design looks More decent now , shift the negative space more in middle

Btw when u guys are taking about a building that send cargo to space station I have think about interplanetary launcher but with petroleum powered

[dawn cairn]

I plan electricity

[prime hedge]

Doodled here

[dawn cairn]

space elevator style

[prime hedge]

Would it need a stringy like thing in the sky?

Could be cool

[dawn cairn]

yes

[chrome grail]

2.5 is out? lets goo

wait does rocketry expanded patch out the trick of having 2 spacefarer modules?

[dawn cairn]

that "trick" is just a vanilla bug

I dont change anything about it

[chrome grail]

i guess its fast track then

[dawn cairn]

thats more likely

[chrome grail]

yep

[dawn cairn]

the bug only works because kleis normal check lags

peter most likely replaced it with his own check that doesnt lag

[chrome grail]

ill check 2.5 in a few hours

[dawn cairn]

I finally encountered a lot of the small crashes when making screenshots

those should be fixed now

[chrome grail]

most of the stuff taking deep space science is released right?

[dawn cairn]

nop

deep space science postponed

[manic yew]

question on the ion thruster; if this module removes 5 burden, what happens if the total rocket burden is negative? e.g. radbolt engine + 2 ion thrusters + solo spacefarer == -2 burden total?

[dawn cairn]

wont be implemented in that way

[chrome grail]

hm iirc i saw something in-game like additional range for the module stats

also it kinds depends whether you want the range or speed

[willow umbra]

The only thing that looks off to me is the symmetry.

[prime hedge]

Have u see the new design?

[willow umbra]

Yes

But I hadn't when I posted this message

[stable basin]

Bit bright

But it looks so cleeeaaan 👌 😩

[stable basin]

Tfw a fix makes the game harder because it actually works 💀

[prime hedge]

I'll try to edit the cut PNG to bringing down brightness later. Agree its bit too shinny

[stable basin]

Yeah the orb could be centered

And the hoses/pipes kept asymmetrical

The orb really takes the focus (away from the centerline) imo

[sour magnet]

looks very good btw

[prime hedge]

second try on flame animation. question about fuelling: my idea is using ethanol and oxylite in molecule forge 100+100g =200 kg combustible paste, which need dupe to manually deployed in module.

[sour magnet]

wow

[scarlet crater]

You're doing some seriously high-grade work on this mod! :D

[prime hedge]

thx. I appreciate the encouragement

[stable basin]

Ethanol and oxidizer seem strange

That's basically a petrol engine

Shouldn't it use some niche gas? Given it's an ion thruster

[stable basin]

The animation is so cleean tho 👌😩

[prime hedge]

Idk my ideas is around that don't require any oxydizer, though I don't know what kind of gas could be used. Hydrogen again sounds boring. 🤣

[dawn cairn]

synth gas

its an unused element

btw, the solid booster burns oxylite and iron in base game

[prime hedge]

Need to change artwork to make it fit in as Module. Thx to Imalas for providing some insight.
It's sound counterproductive that one give -5 burdens but have to add the oxydizer tank to pay another 2 again. Maybe make it with 2 intake one for gas one for oxygen

[dawn cairn]

theres no need for additional tanks

[sour magnet]

It would be cool if ion engine doesn't change temperature when running

[west umbra]

Yoooooooo

[native temple]

I think thruster sprites should be behind the engine

But still Looks really cool

[prime hedge]

wait till u see the new shit im making

[dawn cairn]

perspective wise its correct if these arte the "forward facing" thrusters, aka if there is an equal amount of them on the opposite side of the module

[native temple]

i mean the sprites which moves up at the beginning of the gif

[prime hedge]

lol it was wrong ik. have been slap 2 times now about that

[manic yew]

love the art, animations, and ethanol idea. suggest replacing oxylite requirement with thermium instead. hydrogen rockets already have an oxidizer so adding oxylite seems redundant. suggesting the ethanol+thermium combo instead to keep difficulty high & make both materials required where neither are required today.

alternatively, require the module to be made of thermium but consume ethanol+visco gel.

[scarlet crater]

I dunno, that sounds a bit steep...

[dawn cairn]

nah, no space materials as fuel

at most construction material

[manic yew]

instead of space materials then, what about hot materials? e.g. liquid cobalt? i'm just trying to come up with ways to make the module challenging in ways that are different from cryo-fuels.

[dawn cairn]

its not supposed to be challenging

esp. if its too challenging players just write it of as "not worth the effort"

[pine oasis]

The nat Gas Engine is easier to use than large petrol. Prove me wrong

[chrome grail]

ask for an nerf lol

[hardy forge]

no

[prime hedge]

its actually already nerfed? -2 max height is issued

[hardy forge]

well, that + no extra fuel?

also does it need oxidizer?

[prime hedge]

I think its already nerf in this update. I havent check yet

no cuz he didnt implement the gas fuel tank due to some issues.

[dawn cairn]

yes

and the nerf is live

[stable basin]

Is this intended?

I mean I love blue parabolas, but it's a strange design choice

:P

Oh my

[dawn cairn]

you need to clean your installation

(delete old mod folder, paste new)

alternativly delete the file anim/assets/rocket_natgas_engine/rocket_natgas_engine.png

[stable basin]

Got it, thanks

It's on local tho

Might just switch to Steam

[native temple]

O . O

[stable basin]

Could the fuel loader have the flow rate as a config option/just set to 10?
Using high-pressure pipes would make fueling the natgas engine way nicer
Shouldn't have to wait 1.5 cycles for a full tank

[dawn cairn]

you can use multiple loaders

I'll look into it

[stable basin]

True lmao

[prime hedge]

Due to game structures issues the original ion thrusters design has been replaced. that one would be saved as a possible ion engine (rework needed), And i have finished this prototype thruster module animation with this plasma kind of jets. i think its looks very nerdy XD

its looks better in black background

soon ill clean up bits and delivery to dev

i have tried line-ish flame but it looks or too realistic or too plastic, light bean makes most sense in this one

[stable basin]

GOD FKN DAMN

Now that's some cool-ass art right there

[scarlet crater]

I know that you probably, literally legally can't work on mods and get a paycheck from Klei, but damn son, you've captured their artstyle so perfectly I'm genuinely wondering if you aren't on their art team

[prime hedge]

sheesh this is too much for a compliment. tho im working with Imalas and thx him for giving tips about a lot of stuff.

[sour magnet]

as i remember, fast wheels (or any fast rotating objects) rotate backwards when they are rotating very fast

but yours rotates forwards

[native temple]

true

i even know why but idk how to explain it

[sour magnet]

illusion or something like that

but this is still cool

[prime hedge]

Shit. brb with fix verson

[dawn cairn]

depends on the speed of the rotation and the shutter speed of the camera (/the eye equivalent)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MN5MF72PHs

[prime hedge]

Also there is some changes in ignition animation

[stable basin]

It's the stroboscopic effect
Basically when the sampling rate is close to the rotational period

They don't change rotational direction, it just seems (literally seems) like it

[sour magnet]

.

[stable basin]

Is there any idea for the exhaust, if any?

[prime hedge]

wdym exhaust?

[stable basin]

Rocket make gas

It hot

[prime hedge]

i guess u are right. personally suggest that it emits heated steam but in a smol amounts. and put in the same research tab as radbolt engine

[stable basin]

Yeah, radbolt tier seems okay for it
The exhaust would be just the fuel, but hotter
(Although I can see it having none, since one could just recapture the exhaust )

[chrome grail]

you could make it as its own research item taking deep space science

[prime hedge]

I don't how hard codewize for Imalas to implement exhaust by module...
And
Yeah maybe the ion thurster/ion engine would be put in the same place after rework.
Tho I don't think it should be put in late game research tab.

[dawn cairn]

exhaust is easily done
element will be determined when I have decided on the fuel mechanic

[sour magnet]

idea: big liquid oxydizer module

[dawn cairn]

no

no point in adding

[sour magnet]

any progress?

[sour magnet]

?

[dawn cairn]

^ been working on that

[sour magnet]

ok

[deft lake]

hi, i've got a rocket in position with a satellite. it's not obvious at all how to deploy the satellite? I'm not getting an option to deploy it in the control center in the rocket, what am I missing?

[dawn cairn]

there is a deployment screen when you are on the starmap and click the rocket

similar how you deploy trailblazers

[pine oasis]

Uhhh… did you make sure the satellite module was full?

[deft lake]

thanks, I was trying to do it within the rocket itself for some reason.

[pine oasis]

Oh

[hardy forge]

wait i can't find the satellite stuff in the research menu

wait nvm i found it

[hardy forge]

it says that its missing resources, how do i remedy this

[stable basin]

Make resources

[hardy forge]

i have the resources but when im in space it says that

[stable basin]

Was it built?

Dupes have to actually build the thing once they fill the module
Like the landers

[hardy forge]

there isn't an errand to build or supply

to the module

the module is called missing.strings.buildings.prefabs.rtb_spacestationmodulebuilder

its like i can't select the type of space station i want to build

is their supposed to be a selection menu for the module?

also is the module supposed to look like this? sorry for the exessive messaging

[dawn cairn]

the module is unfinished

and should be hidden

[hardy forge]

hmm, ok

its still enablable in the manual config

[dawn cairn]

bc Im working on it and adding configs backwards is annoying

[stable basin]

Oh okay I thought you meant the Sat, my bad

[dawn cairn]

satellites is also a different mod, this is the space station constructor

[hardy forge]

ok

well gl

[small niche]

I saw the discussion in #spaced-out-general that rover AI is kind of hacked together, would a rover fix/alteration be a good fit for this mod?

[torn charm]

just subscribed gonna check it out

[dawn cairn]

no

that would be a mod on its own, but it would be annoying af to make

also Romen is working on a very large mod in that direction

[dawn cairn]

also, you can create space stations, but the current version requires to bring the construction mats in a cargo bay

[hardy forge]

construction mats?

oh, materials

neat

ill try that

[dawn cairn]

I don't think I added the list yet tho

(what you need for each station)

it's in the code but not the ui

[dawn cairn]

these are the current costs, they will change tho

also the station system will get a rework before I release that update

[chrome grail]

hm graphite is not renewable right

that would be cool to have enough graphite to make stations

[dawn cairn]

^

[hardy forge]

graphite is renewable

you can crush fulerene

[narrow hawk]

yeah, fullerene from space mining and then crush for graphite. have to get lucky with space POIs though

[hardy forge]

i have two pois with fullerene

[torn charm]

Same

[dawn cairn]

atleast 1 is guaranteed iirc

[deft lake]

it's "related" - but the starmap sensor needs some love. Right now it can only tell you when you are at a particular planetoid or "in space". It should be able to tell when you've arrived at an POI or any arbitrary point in space - like where you might want to deploy a satellite.

[sour magnet]

Or when you arrive at a space station

[hardy forge]

crash

[dawn cairn]

The whole automation logic<=> space stations is a large can of worms I will have to adress finishing space stations

[deft lake]

soooo close. i gave up ONI about six months ago because I was frustrated I couldn't 100% automate shipping to/from colony planets. The automatic launch doesn't work unless the launch checklist is 100% complete. I had plenty of fuel for a round-trip however, one of the items is "fueled" so even if there was enough fuel for the round-trip the rocket wouldn't return. When I saw the advanced platform I was excited - I thought that this problem was solved with the more granular launch pad bits. Unfortunately not - the checklist must still be complete before launch.

I would LOVE a way to suppress any/all of the items on the launch checklist. You should absolutely be able to programmatically launch with an incomplete cargo load or a less than full fuel status, or even a less than clear launch path. Ideally an add'l flag to know whether you have "enough" fuel so you won't be stranded in space, but I'm willing to take that risk on behalf of my dupe :).

I COULD use the AI rockets, but enjoy the capsule building and the whole astronaut program.

(yes, I did end up building an elaborate interplanetary launcher protocol, but again, I was so close to having the rockets automated...)

unless I missed a way to do this?

this would be a fundamental breakthrough for ONI rocketry and provide a viable alternative to the laucher!

would be great if you could set your considerable ONI modding skills on this at some point :)!

[dawn cairn]

great idea

[dawn cairn]

aaaand got it working for cargo/fuel

[torn charm]

Could you make it so the rocket platform sends a green signal at a set value for rocket range, so if it has enough fuel to get to a planetoid and back then send a green signal?

Or something like that

Could be very useful when I make trips to my iron planetoid

[dawn cairn]

no

the cargo signal is set to warning, if the fuel only lasts for the one-way-trip(aka yellow). its "green" when the fuel lasts for a roundtrip.
the "isready" of a rocket reads warnings as failures

I added that you can ignore that warning on automated rockets, making them read the warning as "ready/green" if you activate the override

[torn charm]

Ok cool

[dawn cairn]

that part is how any platform functions

the problem occurs when its supposed to start at iron-because then it only has fuel for a one-way trip (back)

and thats the part where I allow overriding that warning now

[torn charm]

hmm yeah

idk how hard it would be but could you make like a variable that if it has fuel for a round trip then let it go and only check the amount of fuel when it gets back to the planetoid it started from?

i don't know if this is possible or not

[dawn cairn]

Thats how it already works

override it at the target location

the launchpads dont know each other

the override only works if there is fuel for the oneway trip

imagine it like a traffic light

enough fuel for round-trip: green

enough fuel for 1 way-yellow

not enough fuel - red

the automated check for rockets prevents flight if the traffic light is anything other than 'green'

with my new override, it allows 'yellow'

[dawn cairn]

Warning + override on second bit

and off it goes

[deft lake]

wow, amazing re rocket checklist automation. look forward to try it!

[dawn cairn]

its released

v.2.5.2

I really need to make some sort of wiki.. (steam description is a mess and character limited af)

[deft lake]

you have to be kidding. let me buy you a coffee on patreon or something. 🙂

[stable basin]

Basically you put the start at the fueling station

Simple

The round-trip flag should take care of the rest

[stable basin]

Hmm, strange

Oh, right, nevermind

[dawn cairn]

for default mining, that is fine

for automating rockets landing somewhere, not

[stable basin]

Yes, as soon as it lands, it handles the destination pad as a regular one

It's the little things, that's why this mod rocks

[deft lake]

testing it now. seems to work. minor comment - bit 2 override is labeled as a "cargo", but I think it's really a combined cargo AND fuel? it will allow launch if EITHER is incomplete, right?

now that this is done, i need to think through this use case. do you have any other thoughts on how to use bits 3&4 - if not maybe use one for fuel override and one for cargo override? I think there are cases where you go to the destination planet and you can't fill up with what you expected so perhaps the override should be separate. not sure if we have a way to know the status of the cargo compartment though?

[dawn cairn]

yes

these both are bundled together logic wise

cargo is the combined output of this category

[dawn cairn]

sadly, these things couldnt be more connected.....

(ffs klei)

[deft lake]

got it.

[deft lake]

hmmm. i'm not able to a round-trip so far. the destination seems to go unset as soon as I land. I've tried round-trip flag in both directions.

i'm confused though by it's setting (dark or light), but neither seems to work for me.

[dawn cairn]

atleast cargo state can be automated externally

light = enabled

[deft lake]

ok, retrying.

[dawn cairn]

my test rocket here has done a lot of round trips successfully

rocket starts as soon as it reaches the "warning state", aka has enough for one way

[sour magnet]

give github link to version with ion engine now (please)

[dawn cairn]

ion booster only decor

not functional

[sour magnet]

still

please

[deft lake]

with bit 1 & 2 set, the rocket should land and immediately just take off again, right? so if you started at planet A and both planet A&B had bit 1&2 set, the rocket should just go back and forth indefinitely assuming it had enough fuel?

[dawn cairn]

it will start if it can reach the targeted platform in a one way trip

aka; planet 7 tiles away -> will start if it has 7 range of fuel remaining

(opposed to 14 when the override is not enabled)

if you only have one planet with fueling infrastructure, you'd want to disable the override on that planet

[deft lake]

ok so A, I have only bit one set, so it will await a full cargo (including plenty of fuel of course). On B I have bits 1&2 set. The destination is set for B and the round trip is light colored. When it reach planet B, it should land and immediately take off. (this is just a test of course). The rocket should return to A, fully refuel, and the process above repeats. Do I have it right?

[dawn cairn]

yes

and as for the cargo part, since that is intertwined with fuel logic (thx klei -_-), you would want to get the logic with that externally

and make that external counter trigger the launch signal

[deft lake]

got it. not dealing with sophisticated cargo logic now, just trying to see if I can do the round trips successfully, my initial goal.

[dawn cairn]

[it helps having a rocket with 25 tiles speed]

[deft lake]

for better or worse, i've been standardizing on radbolt engines, in vanilla I was fully commited to hydrogen. but with these new flags, you've made a variety of other engines far more interesting IMHO.

[dawn cairn]

here

that mod is on hold, so I repurposed the engine to be debug-op

fuel it with nuclear bomblets(industrial material)

[deft lake]

amazing will check it out asap.

[dawn cairn]

also has a bomb somewhere in utilities

[deft lake]

hmm. do i need to do anything on the source planet (planet A) except toggle the RT flag to light colored? My rocket is landing on B, bits 1&2 are on but its just staying there and destination is still showing unset.

(I can, of course, manually set the the planet A, but that's not the goal)

[dawn cairn]

thats very weird

did u set the roundtrip before the start or during?

[deft lake]

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2017087630833827577/33D93D5F5BFABDFCD35673A7B6798608160A9A47/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

that's the destination planet

source planet. https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2017087630833835057/F77234A70BC8E55FFDFA2B978532F8EC8A843C4D/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

yes, i believe so, but still try it again.

wonder if there's some strange interaction with speed of game or sandbox. will slow it down to normal speed on next test.

[dawn cairn]

Im on x3

it instantly goes back

[deft lake]

definitely something odd going on. On planet A (Earthiel) the rocket has taken off w/o full fuel and only bit one set. https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2017087630833853332/B43C7C1E10C666C5C3CB27B4CB937944EF7F8710/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

[dawn cairn]

do you have any other rocket mod?

like the queueable rocket target or sth like this?

have you set a dedicated rocket platform?

[deft lake]

ah, yes. i was playing with "flight planning" last night as a way to address my issue. disabling it now.

[dawn cairn]

thats likely the culprit

..hm no source code

time to dotPeek

[deft lake]

i like the spirit of that mod but it doesn't have a real UI. that might be something you want to attack next. The "grand vision" i had was that you could turn the rockets into an Amazon-like delivery vehicles, going from colony to colony, picking up and dropping off stuff, and doing their major refuel at only the source or a few key stops.

[dawn cairn]

Ouch

that mod

ouch

[deft lake]

haha what did you see?

[dawn cairn]

he writes the coordinates to a file

does that mod break normal roundtrips?

[deft lake]

i literally turned it for the few moments b4 I sent you my suggestion. it basically didn't work at all for me, but I was hopeful.

but I didn't disable it right after, I was going to experiment further w it today when I got your message that's you'd already implemented the cargo flags.

[dawn cairn]

hmm

something fishy going on with the radbolt engine

[deft lake]

yes, i'm now getting the proper RT behavior with "flight planning disabled" but I believe it's not waiting for bit 2 now. testing now.

[dawn cairn]

I got that bug with the radbolt engine

I assume race condition

waits with bit disabled as intended

goes back when enabled

[deft lake]

Was there an issue w radbolt engines you addressed?

[dawn cairn]

idk tbh

I had it once not flying back, but that might just have been me forgetting to select roundtrip

im tired af

[deft lake]

I’m afk but will try soon and let you know

Well rocketry can take a lot out of u

Lol

[dawn cairn]

I made radbolt a bit faster now

~900 engine power temporarily

ok it was just me forgetting it

flies away normally

beautiful

[hardy forge]

hehe

[deft lake]

if bit 2 isn't set the rocket shouldn't launch unless 100% of the launch conditions are fulfilled, right/

?

[dawn cairn]

yes

well

technically no

it only checks the rocket integrity and the cargo manifest

but thats the normal, unmodded automation behaviour

[deft lake]

i feel like it's definitely launching with only bit 1 set. b4 i believe the automatic launch was only if the manifest was 100%.

i'm trying to do a clean test.

am I misunderstanding? is the behavior now that it should launch if bit 1 is set regardless of the other bits?

[dawn cairn]

bit 1 is the vanilla logic input

bit 2 converts , when enabled, Cargo-Manifest checks to 'ready'when they are set to 'warning'

but only if bit 1 is set aswell

[deft lake]

hmm. here what I understand tell me if this is correct. if bit 1 and only bit 1 is set, that rocket should (automatically) launch unless the (old style) manifest is 100%. However, if bit 1 AND bit 2 is set, that will automatically launch if the manifest is only partial.

[dawn cairn]

bit 1 alone should be vanilla behaviour

aka only launch when cargo manifest is 100% fulfilled, no warnings allowed

[deft lake]

so what i wrote above is correct then?

i wonder if I have some vestige of the "flight planning " mod still interfering, I disabled it but will unsubscribe too.

[dawn cairn]

unlikely

[deft lake]

ok, i see the issue. it's the definition of "fueled".

my radbolt rocket is NOT filled all the way, but it has plenty of radbolts. it's showing on the manifest as "fueled" therefore it's fulfilling the vanilla condition(s).

i thought fueled meant 100% fueled not mostly.

[dawn cairn]

"fueled " is dependent on target distance

if the target is 10 tiled away, fueled means roundtrip, aka 20 tiles

between 10 tiles and 20 remaining range its considered "warning" , since it cannot return the same route with its current fuel

[deft lake]

is this your new behavior or has it always been this way?

[dawn cairn]

always has been like this

I do not modify it

[deft lake]

so it's always been the case that if the rocket COULD make a round trip, the automatic launch from the destination would have worked?

[dawn cairn]

the only thing I add is that it considers thud "warning" range as valid launch condition if bit 2 is true

[deft lake]

so the warning would have been if you asked it to make a round trip, but it knows it didn't have enough to do so?

(or any trip for that matter)

[dawn cairn]

It was always the intention to be like this, but roundtrips were bugged a lot in the past

[deft lake]

so overriding the warning now lets you make round trips because it assumes it's on you to at least partially refuel at the destination to return.

[dawn cairn]

and no, warning is "can do the route one-way", if even that is not possible, (in case of example, <10 tiles range), it throws "error", and that is not overwritten by me

[dawn cairn]

yes

override on both ends if both sides can refuel

if only one side has refueling equipment, dont override that side

that way, the rocket always loads for a full roundtrip on the fuel side and has consumed exactly half its fuel when reaching the target, making it still fall into the "warning"-category for the return (which you activate by overriding the warning with bit 2)

example radbolt rocket: max range 20

asteroid without refuel is 9 tiles away

you fuel the rocket without overriding the warning, this leads to it fueling up to 18 tiles of range (2*9 = one roundtrip)

when it reaches the target planet, it has consumed 9 tiles of range, leaving 9 more in the fuel tank

for the return, there will be a warning (yes, you have that range, but you cannot return to here after), since 9 tile range is enough for the distance of 9 tiles

you overrride the warning -> the rocket returns to base for refueling, having exactly 0 tiles more range when arriving

[deft lake]

ah ok, this is a lot more nuanced. so "fueled" on the source side means it has enough for whatever trip you have asked it to make - one way or RT. it has nothing to do with a full payload of fuel.

[dawn cairn]

yes

its like a traffic light;
🔴 = cannot reach target
🟡 = can reach target but not return
🟢 = can reach target AND return home

[deft lake]

but that seems curious though because in theory then you had enough for a return part of the round trip, why didn't the automatic launch just work on the destination side b4 this change?

[dawn cairn]

I allow to fly at yellow

[deft lake]

GOT IT.

[dawn cairn]

because the launchpads cannot be linked in any form

so each launchpad calculates these conditions for itself

and no-refuel-launchpad doesnt know its a roundtrip endpoint

[deft lake]

it should be up the rocket, not the pad. the fuel is on the rocket.

ok haha. i admire your attention to detail. this game is a neverending rabbithole of detail.

[dawn cairn]

the rocket ALSO doesnt know its on a roundtrip

it only knows that when mining in space

when landing, it just sets its previous launchpad as next target

[deft lake]

how do you think this bodes for doing actual rocket routes properly? turning ONI into railroad tycoon or factorio 🙂

[dawn cairn]

it certainly will allow automated rocket routes where only one of 2 planets has fuel

allowing for a "central" HQ-base asteroid for refueling and main logistics

[deft lake]

so cool. it's all working now as expected now that I understand it. thanks again. it's a subtle but amazing addition.

[dawn cairn]

it was an excellent idea

[deft lake]

i did my first rescue in space with the docking adapters! that was fun.

[dawn cairn]

thats one of the things I simply dont see since I dont play anymore

[deft lake]

yeah the sandbox and modding is super addictive it will be hard to go back I can see that.

[dawn cairn]

similar with 3GuB being annoyed about the radiation leak of the liquid ports

it was literally a oneliner fix

or things like "theres always 250 rads inside a rocket"- got that one from a streamer who made outside rad shielding yet his dupes still got radiation poisoning

[deft lake]

did you see my suggestion on the starmap location issue? a minor improvement there will unlock a lot of interesting play styles.

[dawn cairn]

yup, already took a look into it, could be a bit tricky

the UI part atleast

since that just grabs all asteroids + 1 blank entry for "in space" in the selector

[deft lake]

could "your destination" just be another named location in the selection box?

[dawn cairn]

problem is that it doesnt have a starmap target selector

[deft lake]

what about creating a virtual POI?
that corresponds to the destination?

[dawn cairn]

well, I say "problem", its more that I probably need to change the target verification logic and tape a starmap selector to it

[deft lake]

or a virtual temp asteroid?

maybe there's bigger fish to fry 🙂

[dawn cairn]

basically that thing here attached on top

but sadly that is a big mess aswell

..

[deft lake]

i see.

[dawn cairn]

there is a reason the starmap sensor DOESNT use that screen

[deft lake]

re the docking adapter - i did make it work but was confusing. is there an obvious way to disembark the victim?

[dawn cairn]

you can assign a dupe to force him through it

[deft lake]

i had to create a bed for him in the rescuing rocket then create a sleep schedule.

otherwise they seemed to just go back and forth between the disabled rocket and the rescuing rocket, i probably didn't understand how the assignment worked in the adapter.

[dawn cairn]

nah, its just wonky

they can roam freely between the two

so ideally you force him through and then cut the connection

or have a build/deconstruct task on the other side

[deft lake]

yeah that's a bit wonky, agree.

ok so i wasn't too far off then.

[dawn cairn]

(the main intention of the system is docking to space stations, but I had to write that from scratch and its limited by the pathfinder)

[deft lake]

is the space station stuff available yet?

[dawn cairn]

not officially

[deft lake]

what's your intention with the stations? create tiny virtual asteroids or large stationary ships essentially?

[dawn cairn]

number 2

[deft lake]

i've used the relay satellites those are fun. although honestly the automation signals should just propagate realistic distances 🙂

[dawn cairn]

both are a clusterfuck to make with all the assumptions klei makes on so many positions, but the "is technically a rocket" version is slightly less fucked

[dawn cairn]

Satellites are a realistic way to increase signal range

i need to finish that laser satellite..

[deft lake]

how that we have partial launch conditions, it's not as obvious to get a robust signal to know that a rocket as launched. The output bit "rocket is ready" no longer a clean signal.

*has

heat almost works but if the turn-around is quick you will get a lot of false positives.

[dawn cairn]

the warning-override should only occur when both signals are green

aka the "trigger launch" AND the "ignore warning"

also there is a rocket presence logic port on the pad

you should be able to see that on the ribbon output

even when the override is enabled, the Cargo manifest bit is still red

[deft lake]

ah ok, just watch the rocket presence port switch state.

[dawn cairn]

in theory, rocket is ready should also not be affected by it

bur I need to sleep and recheck that when Im not dead tired

I may be talking bs rn

[deft lake]

platform seems to switch when the rocket enters the atmosphere, which is not super accurate but close enough.

minor side project is to help dupes avoid being scalded when I'm actually playing and not sandbox'ing.

[stable basin]

I remember having problems with it
Like setting a destination and the rocket going to the one taken before, in the opposite direction
So had to land and refuel because it didn't have enough fuel to go around the planet

[dawn cairn]

https://sgt-imalas.github.io/Wiki/Rocketry Expanded/Buildings/Normal Buildings/Fuel Loaders/

got the first few sites done 🎉

feedback requested

[dawn cairn]

I might have found a way to differentiate between the two types (fuel and other cargo)

[prime hedge]

I have a thought out idea around nextgen tier1 and tier2 engine also it's supposed to work for ion thurster too. Though it's a rockery idea yet it's not limited for this mod since it's add some new mechanic to the game.
New mechanic/element:
' Combustable Gel' is a sticky liquid made with oxylite and ethanol. Would need to introduce a new tech machinery to produce this element. And need stored below 25C otherwise it will combust with itself and become heated carbon dioxide. It's is used for tier1 engine which have a built-in tank and don't require oxydizer tank. Give 20tile hight and fueled engine give only 15 tile traveling range.
The second item is plasma fuel cell. Which need molecular forge using 800kg of lead and 200kg of steel to make the ' depleted plasma stabilizer ' would need to introduce another new tech machinery*(explanation in part2) to fuse hydrogen and radbolt in to plasma in a 'hazard' industrial complex.
After it's charged would produce ' charged plasma cell'. This is used for tier2 engine which also don't need oxylite tank, but have a built-in tank for Combustable Gell. The concept of the tier2 engine is basically a great built-in generator which use the power provided by fuel cell to catapult burning fuel to gain more traveling distance. Then after it's been used, the charged cell will return to depleted stabilizer.

Both of those concept provide a challenge to player to build a dangerous industry complex that need to thinked first before doing anything stupid. More fun!

[stable basin]

The fuel loader has the OXI sprite

[stable basin]

So basically napalm rocket

Can't hear Fortunate Son in space tho

[prime hedge]

Maybe less violent and environment friendly XD

[dawn cairn]

updated

[dawn cairn]

Very innovative fuel concepts, however I see the same problems we discussed before here aswell:

• whats its niche
• why should I use it

for the combustible gel rocket concept, its too weak

20 height and 15 range makes it a worse small petrol engine / natgas engine

it has similar stats to the natgas engine, but its fuel is way harder to handle

this would lead to the engine being like curried beans - maybe nice to have / its a nice challenge to set one up, but why invest all that energy and effort if you can use petrol, natgas or radbolts for the same / better results

the plasma cell recipe sounds very fun

[dawn cairn]

I also wrote up a very detailed explanation on how the override system works:
https://sgt-imalas.github.io/Wiki/Rocketry Expanded/Buildings/Normal Buildings/Launchpads/#logic-port-behaviour_2

I hope its understandable

[prime hedge]

Of course they are all idea that can be twisted base on game, such is meant as some parallel solutions, not means to be the 'better' or nicher one. It's just nice to have all different type on the display.
For the plasma fuse machinery I have think about a steam turbine kind of building that have one end building inside a tile that drain heat (>600c) and use all 3 element: radbolt/electricity and heat for the fusing process

[deft lake]

i think we are ok on fuels. there's a bunch of different ones and they have a nice spread of pluses and minuses. where @dawn cairn is taking rocketry is interesting, with satellites and space stations, and now with reasonable round trip implementation - making it a more viable and integrated. I would like to maybe see a more robust implementation of routes, bringing in "train" and "delivery" and "resupply" mechanics.

[prime hedge]

i might not have time to do it cuz im busy preparing graduation theis

[deft lake]

@dawn cairn reading your doc, thanks very helpful and cool you were able to separate the overrides. I'm building a sandbox world and i've noticed that it would be handy to have a capacity outputs on the cargo. there's a mod for that but that may be something you want on your varied cargo modules.

[dawn cairn]

when there are "parallel solutions", one is always better than the other in some regard.
Good game design is if that difference is minimal and/or if there are incentives to still use both (each needs its own niche)

and an engine that is equal in power but has a harder way of obtaining fuel is just worse than the other

its the same "yes you could make/use this, but why would you" that also applies to curried beans

if there was for example a hazardous gas cloud on some tiles in space that cuts engine efficiency in half on all engines exept this one, it would have its niche as a "hazard resistant" engine for "gas cloud exploration"

[prime hedge]

The thing is without the requirements for oxydizer tank it could use up a lot of space. But yes. The star map is still too empty for all those fancy shenanigans.

[deft lake]

@dawn cairn doc says that bit 3&4 are implemented, but the tooltip on the advanced platform says they are currently unused. i believe my mod is updated (showing 11:26 am 3/23). is the tooltip just a little out of date or did you not push that change yet?

[dawn cairn]

ah lol

I forgot to update the tooltip

its implemented

[deft lake]

testing whether these changes play nice with the cargo bay capacity port mod.

[dawn cairn]

I will probably add that functionality aswell, since that mod (probably)doesnt cover the colossal cargo bays

[deft lake]

i was hoping it would tell me if the cargo container was fully emptied but that mod only has two states: full and not full. I want to be able to test that the cargo container is fully emptied at home.

so maybe it needs a ribbon output.

[dawn cairn]

thats the question- 2 ports or ribbon

also it sadly will be in the exhaust cone of the engine since small cargo bays are only 3 wide

[deft lake]

it allows some interesting usage. for instance, at the resource gathering site you can say, "fill out the cargo entirely if possible, then go, but blast off in two minutes whether or not the cargo is full". this prevents rockets from getting stuck.

[dawn cairn]

I think you can reach that already rn

[deft lake]

you have at least three states so far, full, not full, empty. or even better, if you are up for it, to treat it like the reservoirs. I like the "modified fridge" which converts the fridge logic to the reservoir logic much better.

[dawn cairn]

start a timer when the rocket lands, and when 2 minutes have passed, override the cargo warning (bit3)

[deft lake]

yes doing that now.

hmm. bit 3 isn't doing what I'd expect. I have it ON ON OFF OFF. The rocket is landing then immediately taking off again, it has enough fuel. With bit 3 off I expected that it wouldn't leave until the (non-fuel) cargo is 100% filled.

v2.5.4.0

yes, it's definitely immediately landing and launching with bit 3 OFF.

[dawn cairn]

...ye

the cargo state of cargo bays is set via launchpad

and it defaults to "ready"

it only switches to warning when the attached cargo loader building have something to load/unload

so ideally you dont have a perma launch on bit 1

[deft lake]

hmm. i'm not getting it, sorry. i was expecting to land, and ask my dupe to leave the capsule, fill the cargo to capacity, then take off. when I land on the resource planet, the cargo is empty. i can use the mod cargo capacity to test, but I was expecting to tie that bit 3 input. but it's launching whether or not bit 3 is set.

[dawn cairn]

you have bit 0 set

that is "LAUNCH"

this moves the dupe inside the capsule and triggers the work chore on the rocket station

bit 3 overrides the cargo state, but the default value for the cargo state is already "Ready"

[deft lake]

as a computer scientist it's annoying that it's bit 1,2,3,4, not 0 :),

[dawn cairn]

it needs a few seconds after landing to switch to "Warning", since loaders take a small amount of time to start loading/unloading

[dawn cairn]

yes I know, but most people playing arent so index start by 0 would confuse them

[deft lake]

yes, just staying on the same page with you, bit 1-4. anyway. if I set bit 1&2 the rocket will land and immediately take off. so i should unset all the bits, let the dupe fill the cargo, test the cargo filled bit with the mod and use that to set bits 1-3 I think... or at least bits 1-2 (because the cargo will be full)

[dawn cairn]

just dont set bit nr 1 to "On" by default

link it to the rocket presence port, but add that timer-delay-thing in between

then you should get the expected bit 3 experience

[dawn cairn]

I updated the wiki describing this edge case

[deft lake]

interesting. ok, so leave bit 2 permanently at the resource site, but OR my cargo full and rocket arrived signal into bit 1. bit 3 should also be only to allow rocket to launch w the possibility of a partially full cargo.

[dawn cairn]

https://sgt-imalas.github.io/Wiki/Rocketry Expanded/Buildings/Normal Buildings/Launchpads/#warning-override

ah rip

blueprint not included died

would have been nice to link example builds

[deft lake]

yeah its a shame it's down. i never used it but I know folks liked it.

[deft lake]

anyone figured out a good way to get automations from inside the rocket to outside?

[clear elk]

Wireless Sensors?

[dawn cairn]

broadcasters

[deft lake]

yup. works great. thanks! i'm using the wireless sensor mod.

oh! the broadcasters said they needed to be exposed to space so i didn't even bother with it, will try now.

[dawn cairn]

they only need that when connecting to a rocket in space (I think)

atleast this one here works even tho it has that msg

[deft lake]

shoot that works too 🙂 and no power. however, annoying they must be placed on a floor (wish they were like sensors!). thanks both of you.

[deft lake]

(posted to so-help, but relevant here) I'm using the automation broadcaster inside the spacefarer to tell whether I have 100% of what I need for safe mission - water, food, O2, etc. it's connecting to the receiver on the outside that gives the "launch ready" status. Works fine. However, it means I need to dedicate a pad to a particular rocket since I can't tell which of the rockets is on what pad, therefore, I can't just figure out which pad to give the ready signal too. I could put most of ready sensing on the outside, but that's kinda ugly, and I still wouldn't be able to tell the food status inside. It just makes sense to gather the all the info inside I think. Any ideas on how to accomplish this?

[dawn cairn]

chain input multiple recievers recievers.

also rockets have a preferred pad which they try to land on

so make one per rocket and each rocket will land on the same pad all the time

[hidden peak]

hey folks, blueprint sharing is back https://blueprintnotincluded.org/
thanks to @jovial fractal for testing out the new digs
please let me know if you encounter any problems

[willow umbra]

Bruh free ads for another mod...

Is that allowed?

Fun facts, it's really good. Can it support mods that add blocks?

@hidden peak

[dawn cairn]

1. thats not a mod, thats a website

2. nice that its back

[willow umbra]

Okk

[deft lake]

was trying to avoid one per rocket, wanted it to be more like an airport 🙂

[knotty furnace]

an idea: it would be great if there was a way to detect when/whether a rocket is in motion. This way we could use the starmap location sensor, plus this new sensor, to tell when you've arrived at a POI for dilling, artifact scooping, etc.

...another way to get the same thing, though I'd guess it's harder, is to allow one to place a named marker on the starmap, and then see that name in the list for the starmap location sensor.

[dawn cairn]

I have some plans for adding a selectable location to the starmap location sensor, so you can switch between "in space" and "on xy planet" to "at THIS position in space"

but atm Im finishing my Cluster Generation Manager

[knotty furnace]

"at THIS position in space" would do it perfectly, thanks in advance 🙂

[knotty furnace]

and here's another suggestion :). Extend the drillcone to have an automation port out that signals whether or not the drillcone is full of diamond. Would be another step towards having automated launches.

[chrome grail]

is already built into the game if the drillcone is not filled the rocket wont launch

[stable basin]

It's just tied to the cargo check

[sour magnet]

Progress???

[dawn cairn]

currently working mainly on Cluster Generation Manager

it still needs per-asteroid-trait-selection and potentially planet size and Im learning how to create fully custom made UIs in unity for that

[dawn cairn]

apart from that I am currently creating concepts for small interior buildings:

Rocket fridge access hatch:
needs to be placed on the rocket wall, rotatable 360°, holds < 1kg of food, when low on food capacity, it draws some food from a Fridge Module if available into its own storage

Small CO2 scrubber:
uses some resource to absorb co2 from the air around it.

both are planned to be 1x1

both will draw power to function

[clear elk]

I can't wait to play Cluster Generation Manager + Rocketry Expanded + AI Module!

[chrome grail]

minibase with space stations

[pine oasis]

Maybe for this instead of using water it could bottle up co2 and then output the bottle when it’s full…. idk just a thought

[dawn cairn]

had a very long design decision conversation, not a good/ viable design

[fleet wren]

I'm not sure how much work this would be, but a separate mod that has "just" the rocket module interior shrinking and rocket limit increase with none of the other rocketry expanded stuff. No idea how many people would be interested in it but having the option would be nice.

[dawn cairn]

you have the mod config for that

[stoic lark]

more power generator modules that work landed and have to be dupe refilled would be nice

[sour magnet]

i found something ;)

[dawn cairn]

congrats, thats my repo
thats public
and linked on my mods

[sour magnet]

fr

lol

[dawn cairn]

xD

[sour magnet]

why can't i land my rocket?

[dawn cairn]

shitpost level post

bunker door closed?

[sour magnet]

it should open when system detects incoming rockets

[dawn cairn]

well, its your game; Is there a closed bunker door at the top?

[sour magnet]

yup it works with opened doors

they should auto open

[dawn cairn]

that seems like a "rocket detection" error then

[dawn cairn]

the ui is a bit misleading ("unselected" == "is at this specific location rn") but apart from that its working

[knotty furnace]

coolio! How does one designate the specific location?

[dawn cairn]

via the selector

"Change"

[knotty furnace]

no, i mean how does one say "THIS point on the star map is where I mean when I say 'unselected'"

[dawn cairn]

when not on the tile its correctly tells the location

[knotty furnace]

oh, so if I set destination to "empty space" (like a POI for drilling), and then set the starmap sensor to unselected, it will fire as TRUE when on the "empty space" destination?

[dawn cairn]

no, the sensor will fire when at that location, it will just display "unselected" while at that location

but thats the state rn, Im currently looking into hacking that to be more accurate

[knotty furnace]

ok, thanks for the update, look forwards to it!

[dawn cairn]

fixed up

[dawn cairn]

and now that also works

[thorn minnow]

……

[chrome grail]

are there any mods that have red text

[torn charm]

Send logs

Could be useful

[thorn minnow]

where is "neutronium dust"

[thorn minnow]

where is logs

I get

[dawn cairn]

Windows:
C:\Users%username%\AppData\LocalLow\Klei\Oxygen Not Included\Player.log
Mac:
~/Library/Logs/Klei/Oxygen Not Included/Player.log
Linux:
~/.config/unity3d/Klei/Oxygen Not Included/Player.log

[thorn minnow]

thanks

[dawn cairn]

no crash in that log

[thorn minnow]

next time i send

[dawn cairn]

Why.

[chrome grail]

rockets exist

[dawn cairn]

I had multiple concepts for space station, the one you're describing is the one I call 'anno2205-version' (since that game has a similar station mechanic)
I decided against that concept since it creates its own system, detached from the oni gameplay loop
the system I decided to use has you create a station as an empty room of x width and height with a docking port in the center so you can design the entire station yourself, in the normal game simulation, not some detached mechanic.
I also have the plan for stations to require some sort of "upkeep", similar to real stations to "prevent them from falling out of orbit"

[sour magnet]

Imagine klei adding space stations in next update

[clear elk]

compared with their current release pattern, space stations seem too large to expect

[stable basin]

I don't think that's how meteor showers work

[chrome grail]

my brain was not working when typing that

[hardy forge]

when is the space stations part of the mod planned to be released

[dawn cairn]

not

it will release when ready

[clear elk]

before Half Life 3

[hardy forge]

I don't know half life

[dawn cairn]

googleable

[late dirge]

Half life is probably the most boring game I've played

Both of them

[hardy forge]

oh

[chrome grail]

Would your version of the cluster generation manager be put on your github?

[dawn cairn]

sure

https://github.com/Sgt-Imalas/Sgt_Imalas-Oni-Mods/releases/tag/v1.2.1CGM

[chrome grail]

Thanks

[chrome grail]

you mean -1 hex

[willow umbra]

To launch the rocket in orbit

I got an idea for RE, got it from #1090605248776773662

What if the rail gun meteor could have a space in it like space stations or rockets, like a 8*8 or something not too big, and when the railgun destroy a meteor, it drops the rest of the meteors in this "liveable" space, where is can be metals refinerys or rock cruchser, to make sand or refined metals, and a dupe can go in it with a rocket and a rocket dock.

Sorry the the mistakes english is not my first language

[prime hedge]

I rather have a starmap building thing like starmap POIs, and I could move it towards a meteor pathway and order it to intercept any incoming meteor on it's pathway.
Could also storage the material of the intercepted meteor.
another RE module idea???!

[dawn cairn]

ngl, space stations intercepting meteor showers or being affected by them sounds like an interesting addition

[prime hedge]

More difficulty for my favorite modder. Yay!

[dawn cairn]

I've updated all mods and created a new release for all, found here:
https://github.com/Sgt-Imalas/Sgt_Imalas-Oni-Mods/releases/tag/AllMods_30_03_23

[dawn cairn]

for people playing Baator, I changed the fuel tag of the NatGas engine to CombustibleGas, allowing the use of Synthgas as fuel

[willow umbra]

What is baator?

[dawn cairn]

the nine hells

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2582905897

readds a couple deactivated elements, among them synth gas

[willow umbra]

Bruh. This seem to be the true hell in here

[dawn cairn]

thats the premise

[hardy forge]

yes

[sour magnet]

@dawn cairn RE conflicts with itself

*no mods installed either the RE itself

[dawn cairn]

log

[sour magnet]

where

[dawn cairn]

https://discord.com/channels/282741876224688128/1028244612487327847

also wym with "conflicts"

[sour magnet]

crashes

[dawn cairn]

that has no crash

[dawn cairn]

^

[sour magnet]

wait what

[dawn cairn]

there is no crash in that log

it just.. stops at unsubbing some mods

[sour magnet]

it makes "my game has been sucked into a blackhole"

[dawn cairn]

that is usually a base game issue

[sour magnet]

what

it works without mods

[dawn cairn]

black hole is base game issue

[sour magnet]

oh

one moment

ohhhh

it's a mods error issue

my bad

[dawn cairn]

np

[sour magnet]

so it says that it is a mod error

[dawn cairn]

now that is an error

not that it makes sense, but thats an error

I think, your version of the mod is very outdated

its missing certain changes I made a while ago

deactivate the mod, install Mod Updater and make it do a force update for rocketry expanded

@sour magnet https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2018291283 get this

[sour magnet]

ok

it fixed it

[dawn cairn]

as expected

nice

[prime hedge]

Module idea: antenna nose cone:
Buff (+2~4) hex communication range with mission control station

[dawn cairn]

great idea

I also had the idea to make satellites improve that range the same way, but that nosecone idea sounds a lot more balanced (and not everyone uses satellites)

also power budget wise it feels like a very good alternative to solar nosecone

makes you decide - more rocket boost range vs more electricity

[prime hedge]

Yeah maybe satellite isn't been used that much a nose cone that cut 100w while been using for the extra range

Sounds intriguing

[dawn cairn]

I sadly havent managed to make a module that consumes power so far

[prime hedge]

Oh well XD then maybe just a ungraded nose cone then. Could require special material: like plastic and refine metal to build

[prime hedge]

some idea about the space station layout, with the dock in the middle. I assume its would be difficult to utilize some sort of custom propeller for make it move in starmap (coding)?

[late dirge]

Can you make the battery's taller?

[prime hedge]

i mean its a idea XD about how i had imagined how its would goes.. it can be any shape which might fit the design

[sour magnet]

but dock is 2b wide...

[full laurel]

for simplicity probably the entrance shouldnt be in the middle

[dawn cairn]

the core has to be in the middle

for reasons I am too tired to list

[torn charm]

this seems to be broken

[dawn cairn]

mod not up to date

current version is 2.5.5.2

you are on Mod Version: 2.5.4.0

install and activate this: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2018291283

[torn charm]

ah

btw it wouldnt even let me load into the main menu

[dawn cairn]

klei changed a random interface for no reason

[torn charm]

it did now for some reason

[dawn cairn]

that breaks certain buildings from registering

[torn charm]

btw i use mod manager my ony, it updated it

[dawn cairn]

bad mod, fails way too often

[torn charm]

what should i replace it with

[dawn cairn]

use mod updater

[torn charm]

k

[dawn cairn]

• mod filter by asquared

all functions but less visual clutter

and if you tend to switch between different mod configs, I wrote a mod profile manager you can add if you need

[torn charm]

thanks

[deft lake]

Classic 1970s ring-shaped space station, please!

[prime hedge]

Depends on which prospective of this 2D world XD

[wise ibex]

so docking station allows between 2 rockets?

are there plans for solid/liquid/gas transfer via pipes and rails through dock?

or dupes only?

or alternatively i am missing something and am sorry for asking a dumb question

[chrome grail]

well i guess you could build the ring inside the square

[dawn cairn]

stations can access, add, remove rocket resources

[wise ibex]

cargo modules? using the rocket i/o resource modules i assume

thanks!

[dawn cairn]

yes

[knotty furnace]

hi @dawn cairn , thanks for all you've done! One 'family' of suggestions I have that I think would add a lot to the user experience around rockets:

METERS ON THE CARGO BINS AND FUEL TANKS. At the least, a full/not-full sensor like a smart storage bin. At the most, low/hi sliders like in the smart battery. We have the technology to send nuclear-powered rockets into long-range exploration with scanners that reveal the precise composition of nearby planetoids .... and we haven't figured out how to measure how much fuel is in a fuel tank or how much cargo is in the hold? Heck, the game gives us this info on hover already - just make it accessible for automation please please.

Right now we kludge this with meters on the outside (flow meters, gas element sensors, etc.), which are error-prone and a PITA.

If it's too hard to code adding it to the existing modules, adding it to the loader/unloader modules you've added would be fine too.

thanks!

[dawn cairn]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Oxygennotincluded/comments/12bu8ix/sour_gas_boiler_in_a_rocket_module/
lul, someone made a sour gas boiler in the extended habitat

low-high slider logic isnt directly applicable to these storages, but a slider for green if > storage value should be doable

only problem I see with this is breaking existing logic cable networks if I attach that directly to the cargo bays

logic output on the loaders/unloaders feels less disruptive

[knotty furnace]

sounds good. Only issue I can see is that if a loader/unloader is attached to more than one rocket there needs to be a 'winner'. First one, leftmost one, random one, are all ok , 'it crashes' is not 🙂

[dawn cairn]

pretty easy

a loader has 2 states

"does loading/unloading" and "finished all tasks"

[knotty furnace]

perfecto

[dawn cairn]

logic output can reflect that

[knotty furnace]

thinking about it more - what this would do is take the 'AND' of two bits (needs fuel) && (cargo transferring) that is presently shown by bit 3 of your advanced rocket plastform status ("cargo manifest') and would let you decouple it into each of its 2 component bits, which can be nice. For example, for a radbolt engine, I want to send it radbolts regardless of whether cargo is being transferred.

[knotty furnace]

hi @dawn cairn , stupid question about the enhancement you made to the starmap location sensor. It now lets me set the destination, but doesn't let me choose that destination for when to fire a green signal, nor does it do a popup/notification when I reach it, at least not that I saw. What am I missing? thx,

[dawn cairn]

the destination set is the one you choose, it comes in addition to the ones selected below

so that sensor here always fires green when in space

if you remove the checkmark, it only fires when at that organic mass field

[knotty furnace]

OH, ok, thanks. I didn't see it fire at the mass field, but I guess because I also had 'in space' checked?

[dawn cairn]

yes, in space is blanko for "not landed on a planet"

[worthy pumice]

yes

[worthy pumice]

do this, ping me if there is a released version of the mod on the workshop, this is a great idea

also what about adding the sight seer module into spaced out as a passenger module that has no command station, it's a room that has big windows but cannot have things like telescopes in it (or they can be there but they wont work) so you don't spam orbital data lab things

[willow umbra]

And it can make "Space lovers" dupes happy during the trip.

[dawn cairn]

a lot of rocket systems assume that there is only 1 interior on a rocket and break if not.
also the mod has been on the workshop since july 2022 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2837919908

[worthy pumice]

ooh

[worthy pumice]

I think there should be a payload builder and a payload segment for rockets, payload builder goes next to the rocket and makes payloads

payload builder can be entered like a rocket command pod but dupes can't enter. in the payload builder you draw station walls and windows, place buildings, and really just build the station, there is a docking port tile that you can place allowing other segments to dock. once your payload is placed down when the payload builder gets enough resources it will build your payload and you can then tell it to place it on the rocket payload segment to launch into orbit

[worthy pumice]

segments once launched form a space station

also station engines?

[worthy pumice]

I had that, it broke in an update and I forgot about it and it has goten so many updates since then

now I know to turn it on

[dawn cairn]

Poll:
I currently have a lot of ideas about multiple mods that I all want to make eventually (or are partially done, but still require a lot of work), but my time has become a bit limited, so I want to focus on one.
what feature/mod should I put the most focus?
(react with the assigned emoji to this message to cast your vote)
📡 Solar Lens Satellites: new satellite type to harvest solar power in orbit and beam it down onto the planet
🛰️ Space Stations: small enclaves in space, new science type that is connected to them
🦿 Landing Legs: rocket component that allows (limited) footfall on planets without constructing a landing pad, consider it an upgrade to trailblazer
☄️ Laser Blastshot: shoot down meteors with the power of THE SUN
Booster Modules: auxiliary engine modules for rockets
💣 Bombs and Explosives: new, slightly dangerous methods to mine through the planet rather fast, also features a new engine type that uses mini nukes as fuel
👽 Crashed Starship - Story Trait: an alien spaceship has crashed down on one of your planets a long time ago....
📖 Rocketry Expanded Wiki: list & explanations of all features, adjustments and fixes
🌍 CGM Resources: more planets remixed to function as starter planet, new world traits, new poi types
👤Dupe Presets: DupeStatsSelector-add loadable dupe stat presets

[dawn cairn]

(another) rework for the cartographer module - it now functions as a telescope with a (configurable) range of 3 (in addition to its normal functions)

[deft lake]

Id love a “automation destination programmable” and more flexible interplanetary launcher . Also ways to get automation inside to outside interiors . My opinion is we already plenty of fuel sources for rockets . From your list, the bomb is interesting and also the full roll out of the space station work you’ve been doing .

Also maybe just me but I haven’t figured out a good way tell which planets/destinations still have novel artifacts .

[dawn cairn]

https://oxygennotincluded.fandom.com/wiki/Automation_Broadcaster

for inside<->outside logic

for artifact info:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2713204755

[worthy pumice]

self contained life support: pulls co2 and places oxygen (does not make oxygen) it also regulates temperature and has a toilet (if it can't output through pipe it dumps it out in bottles)

[worthy pumice]

the nuke engine should be a plate attached by springs, it should be fast, powerful, and need few nukes but the nukes may be a little expensive

[worthy pumice]

also a recycler that turns co2 into oxygen and refined carbon and polluted water into water but needs lots of power

[worthy pumice]

this mod is broken for me, how can I fix that?

wait I dont have mod uptader installed

or active

[stoic lark]

where is the crash log? not much can be done without it

[worthy pumice]

I got it to work

relaunched the game

mod updater needed a game restart without rocketry expanded

[stoic lark]

you should always get the crash log before asking peeps to help

[worthy pumice]

now I know

[worthy pumice]

deleted the image message, dont need it and it's big

[dawn cairn]

if you want to cheat that much the debug life support exists

[knotty furnace]

@dawn cairn , sorry if you've already had this reported, but got a bug in the enhancement to the rocket starmap sensor. I wanted it go green when I got a random point in space (so I could deploy satellite), if you do 'choose destination' and choose a random point in space that isn't a POI .... crash.

[dawn cairn]

noone reported that yet, I'll investigate

cannot reproduce

got a log?

[worthy pumice]

it would be expensive and use decent amounts of energy, recycler is not 100% efficient and some co2 is deleted

hey what is neutronium alloy and what does it do?

[dawn cairn]

a metal alloy that is 100% rad absorbing, highly insulating and basically not meltable when used for metal tiles or as material for wires - required in construction of large rocket modules

[worthy pumice]

wow, what rocket modules is it used in?

[knotty furnace]

huh, weird. i didn't keep a log, sorry. I'm past that point now, so nvm for now.... might have been something else I guess...

[worthy pumice]

the big one and the shielded one

idea: orbital laser, has a heat output that can be set from warm to colony melting

[chrome grail]

why

[dawn cairn]

can you reproduce it and then send me the log?

[knotty furnace]

just had it happen again :(, it was actually while moving the mouse before even clicking:

[worthy pumice]

it stores heat (heat turns into thermal charges for the laser) and releases it in a big beam, could be good for dumping heat into another planetoid

[dawn cairn]

just... no

also I already have an orbital laser planned

[charred kraken]

OHHH DAMN

its time to hop back into o2 not included

i havent played in months

[charred kraken]

what

[dawn cairn]

Solar Lens satellite

[stoic lark]

SGT_Imalas: not sure you want questions here for your cluster generator but i didnt find a thread for it. was just wondering if the cluster part of the seed is supposed to default to terrania

[dawn cairn]

if talking about old saves-yes

[stoic lark]

how old? this one was made within the last week

[dawn cairn]

new savegames (v.1.4.1) have 'CGM' there

[stoic lark]

ah okay

[dawn cairn]

but its irrelevant

[stoic lark]

its not needed to give to someone else?

[dawn cairn]

that first part is only for if you paste the seed into the coordinate window, there it allows the game to preselect the right cluster

but since your cluster is customized, it's not relevant

[stoic lark]

okay

[dawn cairn]

the "Seed"-part of the seed is the long number

[stoic lark]

yeah i see that in the game menu

[dawn cairn]

it's build as following:

[stoic lark]

i just dont understand how the game uses any of it

[dawn cairn]

{clustername}-{classicOrSpacedOutStart}-{seed}-{storytraits}

[stoic lark]

there is a part for difficulty settings also right?

[dawn cairn]

the first two are only relevant for pasting the seed

[dawn cairn]

no

those arent shared in there

[stoic lark]

so this doesnt get passed then?

[dawn cairn]

ah nvm

yes, settings are that second to last part

forgot about that

[stoic lark]

yeah that was new to me as well

anyways ty for the information and all the awesome mods 😄

[dawn cairn]

for sharing custom clusters, the seed number ( 1822....) is the thing that determines world layouts

[stoic lark]

cool

[dawn cairn]

(and I may or may not be writing on implementing shareable preset files that allow saving custom layouts…)

[stoic lark]

🙂 you do some pretty cool things and that would definitely be another one

[worthy pumice]

fusion engine: uses hydrogen and NO oxidizer to produce insanely hot iron gas and efficient, fast thrust

[stoic lark]

I wouldn't mind seeing an ion engine

[sour magnet]

tf you have so many ideas

but they don't fit in idea of rmss

[dawn cairn]

outright broken

I try to keep my mods balanced

[stoic lark]

what do you think about an Ion engine Imalas?

[dawn cairn]

NOUS made me an ion booster animation that is ready to use

I want to add one, but I haven't cracked power consumer rocket modules yet

(but nothing thats not crackable imo)

[stoic lark]

okay thats understandable

[dawn cairn]

Initially I also couldnt get cargo railguns to work with space stations

that is working now

[stoic lark]

oh really. havent played around with the station yet. that might be a good reason to 😄

[dawn cairn]

its not released yet

might get some nice progress over the weekend on the stations done

[stoic lark]

cool

[worthy pumice]

when stations are released, ping me with an @worthy pumice please

I don't mind

[dawn cairn]

will also make an update post in #mod-releases , but can do that aswell

[sour magnet]

ping me as well

[willow umbra]

And me plz

[west umbra]

bruh

do you not realize how annoying it is for someone to remember your name and ping you

[dawn cairn]

@ here should do it

[worthy pumice]

ok

[chrome grail]

im gonna try to load up the latest version of this and open up the save with an already placed space station

[dawn cairn]

the latest version doesnt have any changes to them

all the stuff I did on weekend is on local branch

[prime hedge]

Idea: Reversibile thrust engine
It's a small engine type which have a built in traveling planner chip. Can land itself with the payload for max 10 hex and mark a landing post to descent on outer planets surface. And could be disassemble after use.

[stable basin]

I don't know how that has anything to do with reversible thrust

[prime hedge]

Indeed...😂 Was thinking as additional jet for guilding purpose

[dawn cairn]

rebalancing the cargo bays

[willow umbra]

WTF IS THAT STORAGE

[dawn cairn]

colossal cargo bay

if you put it in perspective, normal storage is 20 tons in a 1x2 space

[stable basin]

You can say cargo modules have not exactly integer kanims tho

Some boxes are on the grid border

[dawn cairn]

large rocket modules are 4 wide

28 full tiles == 14* 20tons

and rocket module interiors are 1=>2

1 tile on the outside equals 2 on the inside

[worthy pumice]

message 3000

[worthy pumice]

ways to intercept meteor showers while they are still in space and bring back all of the material

[hardy forge]

That would be interesting

[worthy pumice]

yes

[prime hedge]

I made a landing gear concept animation. its a trailblazer module that launchs a landing package first to the selected destination that unfold into a simply constructed launch pad. then the rocket with trailblazer module installed could land and launch with this system.
*filmed gif has 5 sec of delay. sprinter gif export is so crappy

[chrome grail]

This has to be the cleanest landing animation i have ever watched. Maybe this can replace the crab landing legs?

[prime hedge]

Appreciated. The reasons I did this instead of the 🦵 landing leg because it might need 2 set of animations, and also might look weird overlapping above the engine.

[stoic lark]

am i reading this right that the cooling is only 872 DTU?

[dawn cairn]

yes