#Andor - Episode 5 - Episode Discussion

108 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

obtuse hollow
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Season 1, Episode 5: The Axe Forgets
Aired: October 5, 2022

Synopsis: Cassian must carefully navigate the distrust inherent in being the new member of a secret operation.

Directed by: Susanna White
Written by: Dan Gilroy

What did you think!?

1l2nmn3bdun91.webp
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Andor - Episode 5 - Episode Discussion

onyx bramble
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another good one

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questions for the crowd:

assuming Luthen is as informed about the other rebels as he was about Andor, would Luthen have known that seeing a merc loaded down with treasure would set off that one rebel?

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Are the leader and the healer a couple?

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Is the weasel's mom the best worst mom?

subtle flicker
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I think Luthen is testing them, Vel tells them they're tense and he wants them to step up. If they can pull it off they may be useful in future. So far he seems to have invested relatively little in them. However he does seem to be having second thoughts about acting as impulsively

onyx bramble
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Yeah it's interesting that he pushes Vel (that's the group's leader right?) into stepping up, but then has the jitters about letting the team act on its own. It's very SW that the mentors still have things to learn, too.

glass bobcat
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Yeah, I liked that scene - the first scene hinting that Luthen's not a monolith either.

glass bobcat
glass bobcat
worn mirage
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i think Luthen's comment about Andor being something that ties back to him is important foreshadowing, probably the mess on Ferrix leading to Luthen's eventual demise.

onyx bramble
glass bobcat
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Ah, interesting!
Either way, it's once more "Look, we hint at having queer characters on screen - what more can you ask for? Us actually showing them be queer? Tsk."

onyx bramble
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We'll see how it develops.

glass bobcat
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true and I'll be more than happy to eat my words if it becomes relevant in any way.

autumn sapphire
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I strongly dislikes Cyril’s mother

onyx bramble
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She is an awful person and an awesome character

autumn sapphire
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She reminds me of my mother which is not a statement I’d ever thought I’d say about Star Wars

onyx bramble
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I'm so sorry

obtuse hollow
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God damn this show is excellent. Just watched.

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Best written star wars.

worn mirage
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I feel like they are using the classic Jewish mother stereotype.

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For her

onyx bramble
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Wasn't there a similar stereotype for the Chinese? "tiger mom" or something?

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Reminds me a bit of Tony Soprano's mom, actually

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This woman could absolutely put out a hit on her son, too

tidal lake
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Good slow steady build

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I like the variety of hats lol

glass bobcat
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Old larp rule: Every concept is improved by a silly hat!

tardy shell
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Man, AWESOME episode. Still stoked for the dinner. Weirded out by Mon Mothma having a daughter. Was that ship a Lambda?

golden solstice
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All these dysfunctional families. So sad, but very interesting.

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That convo Mon had with her husband in the limo... them sitting far apart, the dialog. So good.
What was the point about asking to take the expressway??

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Loved all the character-building. Love the investigation into "why does someone become a Rebel?"
Weird-hat idealist guy is great.

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Did anyone else see an old "compact Polaroid" camera in that device he unfolded? 📷

balmy ivy
obtuse hollow
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and this makes me want to do a high stakes age of the rebellion campaign very badly

glass bobcat
glass bobcat
zealous sandal
zealous sandal
zealous sandal
glass bobcat
zealous sandal
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Their marriage seems pretty dead at this point -- and that "I didn't tell you because it was a charity" was so utterly cutting a remark -- but the daughter presents an obvious complication on both how and why she walks away from it in the end. I still think the odds are pretty good on Luthen having him assassinated as a false flag, but whether the daughter ends up collateral damage or is taken out as well to prevent the empire using her as leverage...

sweet nova
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not bad but i feel like the pace is definitely slowing to a snail's pace. wasnt so bad with the three episodes dropping at once but last episode ended with the build up to the heist and then this one also ended with that same buildup

undone saffron
# sweet nova not bad but i feel like the pace is definitely slowing to a snail's pace. wasnt ...

I felt that too here. It's like I like the writing and the cinematography and most of the production design (besides things feel a bit too unlike Star Wars at times for my tastes). I'm a fan of character dramas and getting development and depth for everything, but I do feel like episode 5 halted the forward momentum in its tracks in a way.

I also felt like some of the scenes, while well written and obviously done with purpose, felt a bit redundant like the Aldhani scenes with the rebels sizing Cassian up and not trusting him constantly. Might be because I already felt like I had a good grasp of these characters and what they were like from the outset, so I felt like I wasn't learning any terribly new information.

I don't think the show is structured particularly well for a week-to-week show. Despite the show's great writing and nice production value, the structure of the show is what's starting to annoy me. I think they should have released the episodes in batches of 3 like they did for the premiere. I think it'd work far better that way.

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I think structure wise with these 3 episode arcs so far. It feels like the first two episodes are firmly in the Act 1 or setup phase of the story, and then the third episode of the arc is where all the payoff is backloaded and you get the conflict, climax, and resolution all in that sprint.

To me, that explains way episode 3 felt so good is because everything boiled over and stuff happened all at once, and you got the payoff for the first two episodes being fairly slow on their own. Since the first 3 episodes released together, you could essentially watch it as a 90 minute movie which made it more tolerable.

If they just released episode 1 by itself as a premiere, it would've been the most frustrating thing ever. LOL

onyx bramble
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I'm as interested in the character work as I'm in action, so the focus on the characters doesn't feel slow to me.

undone saffron
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I don't have a problem with the character work and its been great so far. The character writing is what's keeping my attention throughout the episodes, but as I said, I felt episode 5 was a real slow down in the plot department. How something is paced is all about personal taste and its all subjective, so there's that.

I don't think that slowness in a show has much to do with action, fights, and explosions, it really is about plot development for me and what narrative beats happen in a given timeframe.

I agree with Mace here: we spent two episodes building up to the same point, which is the heist at the Imperial garrison, yet after both of these episodes, the actual event hasn't started yet. So it feels like the pace has slowed because the plot momentum has halted and instead we're getting all character beats for an episode. That said, those character beats are good and well done.

onyx bramble
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I'd say it's more like,,one episode was meeting the team, the other was becoming part of the team. The heist is the skeleton on which that all hangs, but it's almost incidental, in a way.

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The two episodes were pretty different, so I don't feel like we're treading water.

tidal lake
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Instead of crickets. Hey at least legend of the five rings got a book I guess.

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But a lot of this goes back to the old shuttering of ffg rpg wing and a belief that edge was way too small to inherit this many legacy lines

onyx bramble
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hard to judge how much is outside of their control, or whether they fucked up

tidal lake
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On top of Covid disrupting the logistics line

onyx bramble
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Other games see print, so I don't know that this is all at the feet of various crises

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And not some bad management

sleek zodiac
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At least some of it seems to have been issues with transferring the license.

tidal lake
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Yeah that’s the thing too. Like I see guys like free league or Modiphius pumping out books in print and online and they’re based in Sweden and the uk respectively

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So there’s something going on more than just pure logistics

undone saffron
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They also need to get approval from LFL for all book printings so there's an extra step along with supply chain issues and logistics.

sleek zodiac
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I don't know this for sure, but I got the impression LFL pivoted poorly with covid and didn't adapt well to handling stuff like this remotely.

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That's kind of trying to read between the lines on some pretty vague things Sam said, but it's how I read the situation.

zealous sandal
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This episode was pretty good in showing the Empire isn't a monolithic evil, it's made up of ordinary banal people who like to take in the scenery around them, who are slackers, who are there for the 9 to 5, for the petty politics, as much as they might be for the ideology. Also, as this series is about how Andor got to be the sort of person who, however regretfully, for the sake of the Rebellion murders his own informants when they're about to be compromised to maintain opsec, it's important we see how he gets there.

onyx bramble
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They're not cartoon evil, no, but they put on the uniform of the atrocity-committing tyranny every day and actively support it

zealous sandal
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At the same time, "imperial defector" makes up the background of an ever increasing list of the franchise's characters, so it makes sense to engage with that

onyx bramble
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Sure, but that doesn't mean we're meant to have a positive impression of the people who don't defect

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Up until the moment they turn, they're doing and supporting the greatest evil the galaxy has ever seen

golden solstice
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As to pacing, I was frustrated ep5 didn't end with entering the base, some kind of teaser at least, please!

I really want to know what the two women are doing alone now....They could have kept that for the next ep and still given us something....

onyx bramble
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Would probably feel choppy

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Entering the base at the end, only to cut off, and then restart a week later

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The way it's now, we still get distinct episodes with a conflict and a resolution each

zealous sandal
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Nah, this way they've nicely echoed the tension Andor was talking about where all the pieces are in position and the only thing left to do is wait for it to start. We've seen the defector setting up the minimal staffing of the base, the cel leader and her gal pal sneaking off to do something, Luthen agonising over his kids doing to biggest job he's clearly ever organised as formal declaration of war, Andor exposed as a ring-in making the others question themselves...

onyx bramble
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Rewatched some of the camp scenes.

I love the rebel manifesto writer's dialogue, it's beautifully delivered by the actor

glass bobcat
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yep

onyx bramble
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i hope the show doesn't do the cliché of killing off the young idealist

glass bobcat
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I'd love to see him grow, but that manifesto might as well have been a photo of his girlfriend to whom he'll return after one last job.

Definitely an idea for a new character though!

sleek zodiac
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Yeah I assume at least a couple of them will die and he's by far the most likely.

onyx bramble
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Fingers crossed they surprise us

onyx bramble
sleek zodiac
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Cassian actually dies and that kid is wearing his skinsuit in Rogue One.

onyx bramble
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Case-ian

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It's already in the name, he's a living suitcase

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I haven't checked it, but apparently the guy who talks about dark science in Rise of Skywalker is born BBY 5

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so he might be a kid from one of Andor's affairs LOL

glass bobcat
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sadly, I would not be very surprised if that turned out to be true.

onyx bramble
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man the moms in this show are the greatest

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The way Andor's mom says your women and it tells you so much about him and her and their relationship

glass bobcat
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when was that one?

onyx bramble
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Ep 2 I think, when Andor is getting ready to run

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He comes home and they argue quickly about whom they all told Cassian's real name

glass bobcat
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ah, right

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and then there's Mon Mothma...

onyx bramble
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Mom Mothma

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Mon Mothmom?

glass bobcat
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Mom Mommom?

onyx bramble
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Guten appetit

blazing python
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Just popping in to say I'm loving this show.
Makes me want to play the RPG again! ❤️

onyx bramble
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how best to mechanically handle the weasel and mob mom conversation... 🤔

undone saffron
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Syril's making a Discipline or Cool check to maintain his composure while his mom is grilling him for being a disappointment.

glass bobcat
onyx bramble
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she is the kind of person who would spam that every turn, too

undone saffron
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Ooo. That's a good one, yeah. LOL

glass bobcat
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I wonder whether she's heard you're not supposed to use it on party members...