#Add Rare Dungeon Loot, Ruination/Demolition/Perseus Materials to the Dungeon Shop as pity

20 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

junior wagon
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Add items such as Broken Magic Essence, Materials for Soluna, Ruination/Demolition/Perseus Materials and the rare Enchants to the already existing Dungeon Shop as pity much like how we have it for the Crom Bas/Nightbringer materials or the Glenn Bearna Rewards.

Dungeons and Tech Duinn already give dungeon vouchers and with our current refined reward system in place its extremely unsatisfying and unrewarding to run the content over and over again solo to receive little to no progression towards the gear.

I see no reason why we cant have a pity shop for these dungeon rewards given that they are so limited in the first place. And yes im aware of the New Rise changes coming but i dont want to simply rely on arbitrary drop rates.

I would like a pathway to solid progression towards gear and drops that can run parallel to whats coming and the current system that we have that doesnt take pure insane luck or brute forcing running the same thing over and over again for months with minimal progress.

shrewd agate
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This is something that should be a standard in games like this. People have dwindling patience for the whims of RNGsus and his mysterious ways.

If not absolutely guaranteeing you get at least a material or two, a pity shop would be ideal. But at the same token, a reasonable amount of the currency per run so progress isn't too tedious.

dull current
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paying dungeon vouchers for end game weapon materials is a crazy suggestion

junior wagon
fickle lagoon
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Adding that the weekly purchase limits on current voucher shop items are shared between the tiers on top of that so...

wise spindle
dull current
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Because it's used for end game weapons, I can't really agree that it should be gained via vouchers. Nightbringer weapons are currently over 300m more than ruination staff and almost 150m more than ruination bow despite having pity rewards (demolition bow and staff are both over 700m cheaper than nightbringer weapons). Ruin and demolition weapons are also better than nightbringer weapons, Ruin bow if we get brie lech without the weapon tiering system will be nearly as good as SL bow, if not arguably better until step 8 and the weapon tiering system.

They realistically don't need to be even easier to get, especially not ruin. The drops are pretty common for rare loot. 7% drop chance for ruin/demo mats I believe? Ruin weapons are extremely reasonable to get, there's a reason that archery and DD are still considered the cheapest arcanas, ruin weapons and demo weapons are especially reasonable with their drop rates compared to everything else, getting ruin and demo mats for vouchers would be crazy. Vouchers are far too easy to get, but any pity points would just crash ruin and demo weapons even further despite the fact they are better than nightbringer weapons and already cheaper by a considerable amount.

If you really need pity points just move ruination to crom 100 and make it so it takes equivalent amounts of pity points to get it as an entire NB weapon, if not more, so you can appease the pity point wanters while making it have the same price as a nightbringer weapon so that it isn't just unreasonably overpowered for something that'd be too cheap. If you make it a pity point item that you get from vouchers it'd end up being unreasonably cheap for how good they are. While I personally love pity points, if you make ruin weapons too cheap & easy to get you'd run into the same issue that mage had before where it's the defacto pick for new players who want to reach end game fast. Ruin weapons are expensive enough that you don't feel like you're missing out by aiming for NB for other talents, but making them even cheaper would probably push them into that territory.

If they move them into Crom Bas then I'd be entirely fine with that, simply because it doesn't end up with another situation where people pick classes they dislike because they want to reach viability fast enough that they can fund all their other things easier with content gold. My issue with having them be from vouchers is that it'd just make the already best in slot option & cheapest talents even cheaper. I'm for pity systems as long as the effort matches the reward, but if you make progression too easy people reach end game too fast and then they have nothing else to play for.

Soluna Blade, however, I'm completely fine with them killing the price of because it's the most unreasonable weapon in the game to achieve. When the new weapons drop, Soluna blade is still likely gonna be more expensive than them after a few months, because dawnblade drop chances in alban knights are so low only a handful of players have Soluna Blade, it's over 20b gold to get soluna which is an absurd ask for a close combat player. Especially when it's not that much of an upgrade over the best NB close combat weapon.

sonic fossil
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new players shouldn't have to grind for a year to achieve a weapon thats only a portion of the gear they'd need to do anything in endgame
they already made erg 70% easier might aswell do it to weapons that are about to become outdated anyway
If soluna was to get a pitty system id hope it would only come from alban

fickle lagoon
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So you're fine with folks running something 100+ times with no drop to show for it?

As Crit said, the vouchers are limited to 100 a day. And as I said, the shop items have a weekly purchase limit that's shared across tabs. I.E. I buy the 4 weekly reforges with IIIrd vouchers, I can't use IVth vouchers to buy them because the limit's been hit.

Heck, right now I'm trying to get an enchant prot pot through vouchers, which is 600 IIIrd or IVth vouchers for 1 with a limit of 5 per week. 6 days to get one pot if you cap at 100 total vouchers a day.

I personally see it as a viable option considering those limits. Let's do a little theoretical math here then, shall we?

So a Ruination Bow takes 8 abyssal orbs, 5 flaming blaze essence, and 3 ominous ore. Now let's say we make each of those mats the same cost as the above mentioned enchant prot pot, but limit it to only be in the IVth voucher tab. IVth vouchers come from running Tech, Mag Mell, Phantasm, Theta, and Peaca Vet.

8 Abyssal Orbs @ 600 vouchers each = 4800 vouchers/48 days
5 Flaming Blaze Essence @ 600 vouchers each = 3000 vouchers/30 days
3 Ominous Ore @ 600 vouchers each = 1800 vouchers/18 days

That means a Ruination Bow would take at minimum 96 days total to make, assuming you do hit the daily cap (though you still have to contend with RNG on the rolls afterward).

So would you rather have that minimum 3 months of effort for guaranteed gear progress or continue to spend 3+ months of effort and see only maybe 1 or 2 of the drops you need in that time?

(Added note for below: Not everyone is capable of soloing and not everyone has that kind of luck.)

steady mountain
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The rates for the dungeons are genuinely really high if you are soloing them, it's only the dumb refined system that makes it seem low. I've been getting multiple blazing flame essences a week consistently doing solo runs. In terms of materials for weapons they are so far the most reasonable mats in the game. Their prices are already cratoring massively.

stoic oriole
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Demo pity would be pretty good though..
also multiple ruin mat a week is crazy, i average like 1 every 50-60 runs, longest dry spell was like 3 months, while capping every week, all solo, and i've never ever ever ever seen a meteoroid drop from a tech box ever (or anywhere else on any solo runs)

dull current
# fickle lagoon So you're fine with folks running something 100+ times with no drop to show for ...

10.5m gold from techs a week right now, 5m gold from glenn bearna a week right now, 6m gold a week from crom bas rn
not accounting for drops that's 86m a month. After drops you're definitely gonna hit significantly above 100m a month.

now that's because limits are increased, you'd probably be looking at around 60-70m a month without the extra limits and passes before drops. And if fine leather straps are currently at 50k still, if you did an hour a day that's 150m gold a month. You could easily hit ruin in under 2 or 3 months. That's end game gear in 2-3 months if you really really want it. Demolition you could get a bow and arrow in 9 hours of fine leather farming and then you'd have already exceeded Nightbringer bow in terms of power.

You don't need to get 100% of the mats yourself, you can buy them from the auction house.
Assuming you did crom 100s every week you'd be getting ~1.32 mats from 12 runs worth of pity points a week. A week. That's 14 months for pity points. Your rate suggestions aren't great. An Abyssal orb being 600 vouchers is a terrible suggestion, that'd crash them down below 5m, probably even below 1m. That's end game gear for nothing, which harkens back to my main issue with this suggestion. Vouchers SHOULD NOT be used for ruin parts. It is end game gear. If you're gonna make ruin a pity point item it should be tossed in with crom since Ruin should not be that much easier to get than Nightbringer, if at all. It is better than Nightbringer gear, it should be atleast around it in terms of difficulty to obtain. Currently it's easier even without the pity system.

And yes I'd rather see it take longer than 96 days for you to farm all the pieces yourself, especially if it's a pity system being the sole place you're getting the parts from, because you can also invest gold to get parts from other players. Currently you'll have to invest significantly more into getting nightbringer weapons than demo weapons (700m+ more) and around 150m more for ruin bow, 300m more for ruin staff, despite demo and ruin both being significantly better than their NB counterparts. They're already extremely reasonable especially compared to Nightbringer weapons.

Demo pity wouldn't be as big of a deal since it's not BIS and is already really cheap, but seeing as how it's already cheap it doesn't really need it.

fickle lagoon
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Actually, looking back over the New Rise update, I feel that maybe might not even matter. The gold gain for Tech, Glenn, and Crom was adjusted, granted it doesn't say in what way. I'm assuming dropped to the ground (like Conflict and VHM Girg - though is there confirmation from a KR player?). Not to mention "right now" does not include the times outside of boosting events, nor is it guaranteed to get a good value drop every week even. And there is the Dungeon Guide being revamped as well so vouchers may not even exist much longer anyway...

Also that's why I said theoretical. Nexon could very easily make the mats cost more than 600. Maybe 1200? Or even 2400. Who knows. And I do kind of doubt most folks might have the time to try to cap vouchers every single day anyway.

Doing Crom 100s every week also means finding a group that's even capable of clearing to begin with, no? But the whole point of the suggestion is to have a form of guaranteed progression rather than relying purely on RNG that decides to tell you "no" for 100+ runs.

I will add that even if you get that end-game item, it's still only 1 piece that's needed, which was also mentioned. Just having the base weapon doesn't immediately mean anything. It's one step. There's still upgrading, special upgrading, enchanting, reforging, erging...and all the rest of the gear needed, which also isn't really that cheap.

(By the by, I've been playing for a decade. I kinda struggle with earning gold and making significant progress on gear because of how honestly ridiculously expensive things are paired with RNG being unkind 90% of the time. It's partly why I ended up being really off and on for the last few years. Felt like I could never make any progress toward endgame gear with what I could do content-wise.)

tender temple
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“Just run your weekly limit of techs, Croms, and Glenns” is terrible advice when you consider that not everyone is strong enough to consistently clear that content or struggle with scheduling conflicts to run them with others. Also those runs take time to complete and you’re assuming everyone has the time to do all of that every week. Mabi shouldn’t have to be played like a full-time job to make progress.

dull current
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except techs can be done with blannid gear, glenn norms can be done with blannid gear and crom 30s can be done with blannid gear. The Crom and Glenn I quoted in my original post will be reduced, but they are still doable with blannid gear. Glenn HM is doable with demolition weapons, so it's not a high threshold to reach the Glenn numbers I quoted. You can't run into scheduling conflicts if you just open a party and click the bugle button. People will join you 100% of the time if you can wait like 5 minutes and they'll usually run a couple runs with you. And once again if you fine leather farm for an hour a day you'd get demo weapons in less than 12 hours. Demo weapons are good enough for Glenn HM, crom 40-70's and tech hards are already doable with blannid gear.

These are already the most achievable power upgrades, a pity system would make them too easy when they're already easier than the other alternatives. You'd have to do 14 months of crom bas to get a nightbringer weapon, you can afford to get a ruin weapon in 2-3 months and a demo weapon in less than 2 weeks if you really want it. An hour a day for less than 2 weeks is not a tall order for a weapon that's better than the nightbringer variant.

tender temple
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Ok, I need you to steelman the original argument. The pity system would encompass d robes, soluna, demo AND ruin, and rare enchants like meteoroid. You are only providing demo as a cheaper entry, without addressing the current scarcity of all progression past that point. Beyond that, you’re ignoring my point that it takes time to run all that content. It’s very easy to burn out running all of that content weekly, and I’ve seen many players get burned out running techs every week with no ruin drops for months at a time. You are also deflecting from the original point of relying on techs/croms/glenns for gold by tangentially mentioning farming fine leather, which requires VIP to avoid farming penalties since All Out War and Fiodh Intermediate both technically count as field areas for experience and drop penalties.

dull current
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Fiodh advanced isn't a field area, fomor attack advanced isn't a field area and both are viable options. Only all out war is a field area. Ruin weapons aren't that hard to achieve. You can reasonably obtain it in 3 months, which really isn't that tall of an order for an end game weapon in an MMO. Notice how I voiced support for Soluna, and I'd do the same for DRobe as they are less major of improvements that cost billions more, enchants I'm also fine with being more obtainable.

Ruin weapons, however, will set you back significantly less gold than nightbringer weapon despite the fact that nightbringer has a pity system. They are already more reasonable than Nightbringer weapons despite being better. Generally weapons should be the things people have to strive for the most, they are the most important gear piece and are the most satisfying to obtain. Making Ruin Bow and demoltion bow even easier would break the progression curve even more and run into the same issue where people just run Archer and Mage because of how much cheaper they are. That was already an issue with mage which is why it was changed recently, so now new players can pick other talents they actually enjoy without fear of missing out because of how much cheaper Archer and Mage would be if the suggestions went through. Fine leather making isn't the only easily accessible money maker either, there's turning wheat chaff into haybales, selling other bartering goods, hitting raid boss enemies when groups run them for the chance of 5m gold dragon scales, and plenty of other non-content related money makers. You just have to find whatever one you enjoy. Ruin and demolition weapons are already cheaper than NB and are also better, why do you need a pity system if they're already the most obtainable form of best in slot weapons despite the fact they don't have a pity system like NB. You're already saving over 300m gold getting a ruin staff over a nb weapon and over 150m for a ruin bow + arrow.

Also all this to say once again, if you want a pity system for ruin weapons it'd be better off putting ruin weapons in crom bas and making them take an equivalent amount of pity points as 75 crom materials so that it's not made immensely cheaper than NB weapons while also being better. That'd also give you the pity points you want.

unkempt yew
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I do agree. But I think tech mission pity should have its own currency much like Crom and Glenn do. Not vouchers.

smoky meteor
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I genuinely think rather than a pity for endgame weapons and gear we just need more midgame gear and content, which they're adding in new rise along with whole weapons and such to tech. With this in mind, I think pity is unnecessary.

steady mountain
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With the ability to transfer everything on a weapon and dropped night bringer weapons(of varying quality) i genuinely think it's fine